Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Murder or Self Defense Shocking New Info - Only Fans Model Covered in Blood

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Murder or Self Defense Shocking New Info - Only Fans Model Covered in Blood · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Quody Doors with Joseph Scott more. Over the course of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: my life, I've met some kind of interesting people along
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the way. I love meeting people to a certain degree,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: particularly that come from different backgrounds. One of my friends
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: that I actually met him just by chance and formed
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a friendship with him, was a former Special operations person.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: It's about as far as I'll go, and he's just
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: this salt of the earth kind of guy. But one
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: of his part of his expertise in Special Operations was
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: what they call CQB. He was close quarters combat and
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: he became an instructor, and he was particularly good with
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: edged weapons, and which I was a fascinated by the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: little boy and me, you know, it's fascinated by that now.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I asked him one time, I said, do you guys
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: ever learn how to throw knives? And he looked at
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: me and he said, you know, I thought you were
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: a smart guy. He said, that's one of the dumbest
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: things you can do, because if you have a weapon
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: in your hand, why would you ever throw it away?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to do an update on a case
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: that involves an edged weapon. It involves a single stabling
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and the weapon was apparently wielded by a young lady
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that claimed that she threw the knife and happened to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: strike the victim in one of the most critical areas
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in the human body. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: is Body Backs, Dave. I I took you out in
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the backyard right now. I've got a big oak tree
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: back here. You think you could if I hand you
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: in knife? You think you could make it stick in
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the tree, just wondering.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think I could do that, Joe, Yeah,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I wanted the same thing. I'm so glad you started
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: the show with this about the knife throwing. I've always thought,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: unless you're actually one of these people who has like
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: a whole pack of them, and they're different sizes and
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: they're made for throwing as a as a why would
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: you throw a knife?
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Movies ever? Two movies Desperado with Danny Trejo. He played
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a knife wielding assassin in that, and he had a
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: vest with tiny throwing knives on it, and the guy's
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: name it was James Coburn in The Magnificent Seven, and
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: he carried a knife down the back of his shirt
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and he would wheeld this thing and throw it, and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: it's really cool to see. Yeah, I think it's really cool.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: But the odds, the odds that you were going to
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: be able to fatally, you know, to bring about a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: catastrophic event with this knife.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: More than the bodyguard. That was another one where through
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: the knife at the guard.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: That was funny, Yeah, yeah it was. But it's it's
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: all fictional odds. And I know that there are people
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: out there, well, I know people that throw knives, not
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: in combat. You don't not if.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: You're in a fight, why would you throw away your
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: tool your I know.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's pretty pretty bizarre. So when and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: we've covered this case before, as a matter of fact,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: we covered it I think a couple of years ago.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Now this is how long this has been going on.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And we're talking about Courtney Clinty by the way, Yeah.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: She is one of these New Age models where we
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: used to make jokes about people and career choices, how
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: rich people would oftentimes claim that they were a photographer
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: or a writer because those are a couple of occupations.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: You don't have to prove anything, you can claim it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: And nobody, you know, has a way of saying, are
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: you any good do you have any you know, No,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I'm wealthy anyway. This is just what I claim is
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: an occupation. But we have this whole genre of internet models,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and in this particular case, Courtney Clinny, wasn't her name
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Courtney Taylor on?
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. And then of course only fans.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Right, it's only fans, which is that we've had a
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: number of stories of young women on only fans. And look,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I don't care what a person does to make money. Yeah,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: two consenting adults. I'm libertarian all the way when it
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: comes to that, So whatever you do, fine, But we
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: have a number of cases of young women who have
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: no other means of support except for what they produce online.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And it just weirds me out that they can make
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: so much money.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Oh amount, Well, you know, just down the road from us,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I guess it's in the suburb of Birmingham. We had the.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Cat West.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Cat West, I mean literally that was right down
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the road from us where that occurred. And remember she
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: was sound dead out by the curb and she was
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: involved in this business with her husband and beautiful lady
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: a mother, And of course he was charged and subsequently
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: tried and convicted but she was the model that died
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in this case, We've got a model that is charged
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: with a homicide of a big dude of her boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: To give you a little background on it is she
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: was involved in a relationship where there was a lot
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: of police intervention. There were a lot of graps between
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: these two. And to be honest with you, Joe, I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: have seen a couple of them in particular. One fight
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to putting fight in air quotes between Courtney's
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Clinney and her boyfriend, Christian obum selly obum selly sell
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: all right, between Courtney and Christian, and she was the
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: aggressor from from Jump Street. She gets on the elevator
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: and she is oh, she is mad. She's hitting he
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and he comes on. He's trying to calm her down.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: You can't hear in the audio. You can only see
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the body, you know, how they're working with one another,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: and he's like totally hands off, be cool, you know,
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  Speaker 2: come on, stop it, calm down, that kind of thing.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And she's trying to hit pull, She's trying to pull
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: his hair, scratch him. She is terrorizing this guy who
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is a big man and he is choosing to not
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: do anything other than try to calm her down.
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  Speaker 1: And she in that moment. I've seen this dude in
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: that moment, he was a saint.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I got it.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I don't know how you were
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: strained to self because she was really she was hammering
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: on this guy. And apparently that's not the only incident
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: that had occurred, is that correct day.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: It happened many times, Joe, many times, and so when
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: police were actually called on this last time, and I'm
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: glad you mentioned it because her claim, her claim is
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: that they were in a fight. Now she claims to
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: be the victim of domestic violence. She claims a lot
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: of things, and this man, Christian Obumselli, does not have
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to defend himself or his honor or his
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: character because he's dead. Because she claims that she threw
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a knife and it just accidentally hit him. It was
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: a mistake, It was an accident. I wasn't trying to
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: hurt him. I wasn't trying to do anything. It just
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: it happened to hit him. And Joe, I don't know
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: about you, but you told this at the very beginning.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: If you're in a fight for your life, the one
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: thing you don't do is get rid of your weapon.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: So how does she throw a knife and end up
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: hitting her boyfriend in such a way that it could
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: cause his demise.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: That's the big thing, because this knife was a kitchen knife.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: So if you and okay, let me back up and
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: just say that there are knives out there that are
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: created for throwing. They do exist. I have seen them,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I've handled them. I've never thrown one, and they have
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: a particular balance to it, and there is truly I
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: hate to say that it's an art form, but I'm
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: sure to the people that do this regularly, it is
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: an art form. Not quite the same thing, but I mean,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: just you realize how many bars there are now that
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: have the axe throwing thing, and it's competitive. I kind
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of want to do it. I've never done it, just
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: to throw an axe and get it to stick and
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: you know in the target down range. There's all kinds
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: of things that go into this. As far as the
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: biomechanics of this, how the weapon is held, we're not
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: even talking, we're not even at the point of throwing yet.
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  Speaker 1: So do you hold it by the tip of the blade,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: mid range the blade or do you hold it by
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the handle? And then what arm angle? Are you tossing
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  Speaker 1: this thing? And the people that throw them if you
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: do like an overhanded throw, the knife actually rotates, it'll
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: rotate through the air. It kind of spins on an
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: axis as it And then I've always thought, well, how
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: do they get this to do this and then predict
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: that it's actually going to embed in the target. And
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: then when it embeds, there's no guarantee that it's going
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  Speaker 1: to have sufficient depth to stick. And if you're throwing
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: it at a human, now you're talking about somebody that
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: is moving. You're talking about positionality, because most people don't
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  Speaker 1: stand still unless you're in a carnival, you know, and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: they've got somebody against the wall and they're you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: they're holding uh uh, you know, holding a balloon in
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  Speaker 1: their teeth.
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  Speaker 2: You know, those of you who are a little bit
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: older than Joe and I. It was an actor named
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Ed Ames. He actually played a big Western guy on
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  Speaker 2: TV and one of his things in the TV show
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: was throwing axes, and he was on Johnny Carson's Tonight
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Show where he did a demonstration of throwing the axes
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  Speaker 2: and one of the axes that landed right between they
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: had a drawing of an outline of a man and
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: I landed right between, right in the guy's crotch.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And he said, I had no idea you were Jewish.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: There you go. And the thing is is that that's
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: the only time you see things like this, Joe. You
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: don't see them in real life.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: No you don't. And you made me reflect back to
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the movie The Jerk with Bernadette Peters and she says,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: she says to Steve Martin, I've learned a new trick today, honey.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And they've got all this money and you know, and
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: he says, yeah, let me say, and she says, do
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: you have a balloon? He says, wait, hang on, yeah,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I just happened to have one. He sticks it in
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  Speaker 1: his mouth. She says, now, make sure you throw it
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: real hard. So it's a stick Back to the story
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: at hand, it's one of those things where she is
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: saying that she's taken a kitchen knife in a heated argument,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and this is what she has told the police, and
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: of course this information has passed along to the medical examiner,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and she wielded this knife in a manner that she
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: threw it at him. Now, when she says that she
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: threw it at him, this is where lawyers can dance
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: because did you throw it at him with intent? You
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: know that sort of thing. So they're going to go
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: round and round about this. What the medical examiner though
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: that did the exam emanation in Florida stated and opined
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: about this. They said the doctor said very specifically that
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: this is not something consistent with with someone throwing a
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: knife and having it stick. All right, First off, the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: knife penetrated. The knife penetrated roughly eight centimeters. And just
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: let me give you an idea as to as to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that kind of depth, so that everybody understands it's just
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: over that would be eight centimeters, would actually be just
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: over three inches in depth. Now, everybody, within the sound
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: of my voice right now, find your right collarbone otherwise
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: known as claviical. All right, so your right collarbone and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: drop down. You can anywhere along it, but just find
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the mid the mid portion of the shaft of this
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: drop down about half an inch, all right. You get
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to that half an inch mark that in fact is
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: just beneath that. That area is where one of the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: major vessels in your in your body rest and it
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: is very critical. This is not like you're nicking some
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: little secondary vessel throughout your body. This is where the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: right subclavicular artery rest. And it is a major blood supply.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And let me tell you how major it is. It
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: show it shares a common trunk with the right karated vessel.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And of course the right karated vessel is the vessel
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: that in one of the vessels the right end, the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: left krotid arteries supply the brain with blood, and so
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it shunts off and supplies the periphery with blood. And
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure behind it. So if you
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: clip that vessel, if you clip that vessel, you're going
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to bleed out really really quickly. The reason I'm giving
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: this little anatomy lesson here is when you think about
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: her relationship with this big man, how are you going
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: to target that specific area? How much energy do you
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: think that this tiny woman, and she is tiny, particularly
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: compared to Christian, how does she generate enough energy to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: throw this thing and have it not just kind of
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: stick superficially, maybe like a needle in a SubQ shot
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: that you get injection at the dot. We're talking three
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: inches into the body, Dave three inches a kitchen knife.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: All right, this thing is buried beneath his collar. Mone
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: goes into into this right subclave, Artery and buddy. Unless
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: you had I don't, unless you had a staff of
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: cardiothoracic surgeons with the nurses and all of the instruments,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: you ain't living. You're not living. And what was really tragic.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I remember hearing a recording. It seems they had this.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I think she's it's a non one one call where
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: you can hear Christian in the background operated emergency.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Man. Listen to me. You need to stop steaming on
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: the line. Give me the agger. You have a god
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: taking my arm one on one one man, my good
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: friend and dying. What is the address? Bring God, break
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: come to my head.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: That's the first part of that nine to one one
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: called Joe. And you can hear, uh, you've got Courtney
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Clinny and the nine one dispatch, but you can hear
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: in the background. You can hear Christian saying I'm going
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: to die. I can't feel my arm. What does that mean?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: He is fading and fading fast. Now. They wound up
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: taking him from the scene to the hospital and of course,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: by the time they get to the er, it's over with.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, they pronounced him dead there. So when the police,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you know, actually begin to work the scene, When the
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: detectives worked the scene, all this left is Courtney Clinny
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: and she is super saturated with blood. The thing that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: stands out to me most there was a still image
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of her that was taken because dude, disapartment that they
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: lived in. I don't know about everybody else, but I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: know enough about you and I Dave. We could never
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: afford to live in this place. I mean it is
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: a swinky pad and it's you know, in a high
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: rise in South Florida. And there's an image of her
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: where she is seated and it's through a glass and
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: you can see she's got blood all over and there's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: blood all over the floor, which is consistent because one
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: of the things that we look for in blood pattern interpretation.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And I know we've talked about this, but so our
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: friends know, there's something called arterial spray. There's so much
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: pressure behind this particular vessel that has the heart is pumping, okay,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and remember this thing is truncated off the off of
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the order and then it's blitz after it comes off
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: the A order. Once I go becomes coroated the other subclave,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: you've got this pressure that's coming out. He would have
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: sprayed blood all over the place and all over her.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: So she's in close contact with that they This is
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: a very and I think back you talked about how
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: passive he was in the elevator, and I really wonder
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: if that history translates to this event. He's not thinking, certainly,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: she's not going to bury the knife in my chest.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk her down.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Brother.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: It didn't happen. It didn't happen like that. It didn't
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: happen at all, Joe.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: That's why I mentioned the elevator, because that was just
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks before you know this happened. Police
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: were called out there many times, many times, and there
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: was a history of violence between the two of them
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: that based on his size and based on her size,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: and based on her alleged use of alcohol and drugs,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: and not totally being because when she was actually arrested,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: she was arrested in Hawaii while she was there to
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: undergo treatment for alcoholism and drug addiction. And I want
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to go back for just a minute, because in watching
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the video on the elevator, I watched it knowing the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: end result, knowing that this man died at her hand.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: She never denies that. She does not deny that she
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: did this, Okay, but we have to believe that she
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: claims he threw her to the ground in their apartment,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: and that she grabs a kitchen knife. She's ten feet
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: away and she throws it at him and it hits
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: his collarbhone, just below his collarphone. As you explained, Joe,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: which by the way, I had no idea what you
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: told me today, I had no idea that's what we
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: were talking about in terms of blood, right, I didn't
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: know that was a deadly spot. I would have thought
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: kind of like she yourself through the arm and claimed
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: the bushy haired stranger didn't. I didn't know that it shot.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't know a knifound there would do that. But
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: it was plunged three inches deep. And you know you're
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: not that thick right there anyway.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: No, No you're not. It's it's immediately superior to well,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: it's actually in the upper range of like there's there
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: are other muscular structures. But if you think about your
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: pectoral muscle, that's right there.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: You're going to.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Pass through that. And here's the thing, Dave, there is
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you know your ribs actually begin Let's see, your first
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: rib kind of doesn't really communicate, but it approximates the collarbone.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And people don't realize your ribs kind of go up
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that high, but they do, and then they begin to
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: wrap around the body. So not only is she below
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the collarbone, but she would have had to have slipped
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: us in between the collarbone and the first rib and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: go through the petrol muscle. So it's not just that
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: it's three inches into his body. If you take a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: look at Christian's uh form, he's very robust. I mean,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you can tell dude who spent time on the weight bench.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: He's he's I mean, he is in shape, you know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: he's he's a big, robust dude. And so she's got
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: to penetrate all of that. The reason I'm saying that
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: is that there would have had she with her size,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: would have had to have generated a tremendous amount of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: energy in order to do that. And you know what
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: creates energy in human beings. Rage I'm thinking, you know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: adrenaline's pumping. Things have gotten out of hand, at this
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: point and for whatever reason she said, she decides to
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: attack him, and you know, the medical examiner at this
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: point has stated that, you know that this is inconsistent.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Now this is not She's merely charged. It's not gone
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: to trial yet. I mean, we're still what two years afterwards,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I think at this point in time approximately, and this
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: thing still hasn't made it to trial yet. It will,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: but this is going to be one of one of
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the questions they're going to ask, and I can predict
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: it of the pathologists. Doctor, you have made the statement,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: you know, in this court document, and it is you know,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: we have a copy of it where you say that
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: this is this is not consistent with a thrown knife.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And I think the doctor has also come out and said, well,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I've never seen a throne knife case. But they're going
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to get him on the stand and they're going to
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: talk about this and say, well, how can you make
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that judgment? You know, you you put forth this. She
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: she's saying that she's admitting, you know, just like you
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: said that she did it. She has and this is
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the method that I employed, you know, and I'm sure
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: that they can say or put the thought in the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: jurors minds that hey, look, she was a fit of rage.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: She was just throwing the knife to try to get
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: him off of her or make him stand down. And
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: then they're going to come to the forensic pathologist and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: they're going to say, well, if you've never worked one
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of these cases, how do you know that it couldn't happen?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Is it within the realm of possibility? And the doctor
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: will have to say, I guess it is possible. So
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: that's it's interesting that that seed has been planted. But Dave,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I understand that along with this reveal there are actually
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: some other elements to this case that need to be
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: addressed and have need to be updated. At this point
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: in time.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: There have been a number of issues between the prosecution
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: and the defense, as there always is, they battle back
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: and forth for what evidence is going in and what
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: is staying out. And one thing came down to the
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: laptop that was owned by Christian Omselli and Courtney Clinney
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: because it was what she claims as community property and
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: it was in their apartment where they both lived, and
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: in trying to access the password that Christian used to
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they were trying to get to
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: one can assume, but that doesn't do any good. But
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the prosecution was able to find information communication between Courtney
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Clinny's parents and the attorneys as they were trying to
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: figure out different passwords that Christian may have made up
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: and used to access this computer. Prosecutors got a hold
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: of these communications, these emails, these text messages back and
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: forth and found out what was going on and said, hey,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: wait a minute, you can't you know, And so they
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: charged the parents with trying to break in and charge
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: them with a burglary charge for trying to break into
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: this laptop. And they're like, wait a minute, that's information
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: that is not shareable. That's attorney client privilege. You can't
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: have that. And a judge just ruled that the prosecution
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: did violate attorney client privilege by accessing this communication between
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Courtney Clinney's parents and the attorney. And so now this
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: whole batch of evidence the prosecution was banking on having
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: they no longer have.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's that's a big blow. And let me tell
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you why, because this goes to I think remember how
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this high dollar apartment that they're in, Oh, yeah,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: or condo, you know. However, you want to frame it.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just old country boy, you know, I don't understand
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: these things necessarily, but it's it's val value is astronomical. Well,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: there's there's a certain amount of money that you have
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: to have in order to maintain this lifestyle. And you
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: know you mentioned early on, you know about how much
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: money comes in. Well there they're essentially and you talked
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: about community property. They're essentially in a business relationship. It's
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: not just a romantic thing. They're in a business relationship.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: So any of that data that was contained on that
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: hard drive could potentially give more clues, more insight, and
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: for us, you know, in forensics, we use digital forensics
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to go back in time. It's amazing, you know, with
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: all of these devices that we carry around with us,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: whether it's a laptop or maybe an old fashioned CPU
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: at home, or certainly our phone, you think about that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: reveals quite a bit of history, you know, dates, time, times,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: exchanges of money or intake. And here's the other thing.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: There are sex videos as well. I think they're you
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: know that are related to I guess only fans and
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: maybe other things. We have no idea, but man, I
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: mean that that's all You're saying that's all going to
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: be excluded. Anything that was contained on that CP you're.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Going to have.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna have all of it out. The thing is,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: imagine this Joe Courtney Taylor. That's Courtney Cliney. The name
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Courtney Clinty went by online only fans and Instagram. She
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: had two million followers on Instagram. That's making bank. This
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: is the kind of money that you don't make at
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: this age. This is the kind of money unless you
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: inherit it. You don't traditionally make this kind of money
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that she was pulling down. And the thing is Christian Bobselli.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: He was a computer guy. He was big into cryptocurrency.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: And for those of you who have seen what has
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: happened in that world in the last ten years, yes,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: you know there there have been crypto billionaires and you know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: created where they spent ten cents to buy you know,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: however many shares of some crypto and now you know
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: they sold for forty five thousand a share kind of thing.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a crazy time in the world
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: of cryptocurrency if you got in and out at the
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: right time.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and so you know the old adage
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: of you know, money being the root of all evil,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: which I don't necessarily adhere.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: To evil other evil.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the love of money. Thank you. You're right, You're
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: absolutely right, and you know it's it is a tool.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And the thing about it is, if if there if
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the prosecution were to say, have to move forward with
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: this case, and there is evidence that could have been
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: on that hard drive and this was a final the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: root of this may have been to borrow that phrase.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: The root of could have been some kind of financial
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: distress or discrept and see or argument that was going on. Man.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: That's that's a foundational part to the case. And what
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: a train wreck that could potentially.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Be something else that came out Joe after the death
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: of christianumum Selly. No, many of us have already seen
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the police video of Courtney Clinty directed right after this.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the blood, you mentioned you know
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: how she was acting right afterwards. You this was not
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: a planned event, you know, it was in my mind's eye.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I'm just an amateur at this. I don't I'm not
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: a cop, I'm not a detective or a lawyer. But
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the way she was acting afterwards, you know, a lot
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: she admitted I did it. It was an accident. We
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: were fighting, okay, gotcha. Two months after this, eight weeks after,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: she is so bloody and standing there in front of
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: the cops saying, I just killed my boyfriend. Oh my goodness.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Well she didn't know he was dead as they wheeled
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: him out, but they everybody else did. They knew he's
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: not going to make it. I couldn't from the amount
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: of blood he was losing. Which I'm so glad you
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: explained that earlier, Joe, because I've talked to this a
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: number of people about how could one knife wound there
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: at your collarbone really cause all this? And I'm so
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: thankful for that because I didn't know. But two months later,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Courtney is with her parents in Texas and in this
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Texas neighborhood regular not the Florida high rise she's living in,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: but just a regular family neighborhood. She actually gets she
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: has run in with the law, and according to deputies
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: on the scene in Travis County, Texas, which is the
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Austin area, they respond to an incident with Courtney clenty
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: eight weeks after the murder of her boyfriend or eighteen
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: year old boy said he was walking in the neighborhood
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: when he was approached by a woman who was walking
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: her dogs and who told him she was drunk. She
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: approaches This is what the father says. Jovon is the
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: kid's name. He's eighteen years old. His dad says, she
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: approached him, what my son said, visibly intoxicated, and she's like, hey,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: what's your name. The woman is Courtney Clinny, who the
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: teen didn't know. She requested that he walk home with her.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: He agrees because he's eighteen years old and she's hot,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and she starts making sexual advances towards him. He's eighteen.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: He's not ready for this. He was thinking, I'm gonna
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: walk this cute drunk girl home, but she takes it
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: a step further, and a step further, and a step further,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to the point where she's putting physical moves on him.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know this guy, Joe. They just met walking
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: on the street. She's walking her dogs. She's saying kiss me,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and he's like, no, I don't know you. If you
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: don't kiss me, I'm gonna burn your house down.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Holy smokes.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: That's what Courtney Clinnie told his eighteen year old She
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: just met in her parents neighborhood, and I burned that
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: blank down. So that's why they called deputies. The team,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: you know, wasn't really interested in doing anything else with her.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: And when the cops showed up, Clinty Courtney Clinny then
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: freaks out. She shoves his father, physically attacks him. He
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: shoves her back, calls police, deputy show up, She's freaking out.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: This became a total bruja haa between Courtney Clinney, a
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: dad and his eighteen year old son in their nice,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: quiet family neighborhood because she's out drunk, walking dogs and
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: hitting on an eighteen year old guy. So there you
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: have it.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I'm wondering how if this is going to
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: factor in and if this will be factored in in
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the case in Florida. More than likely it won't. But
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: if you're looking at this case to try to understand
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: perhaps behavior patterns, huh, this is kind of this is
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I think that it's kind of significant perhaps, and and
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: we're not this is not a one off event because
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: if you go back obviously to that violent night that
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: into Christian's life, and then extend back to all these
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: other domestic beefs that occurred at that location, including that
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: thing that has witnessed on the CCTV in the elevator.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: It could be a portent of things to come. I'm
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.