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Decolonizing Joy with Thea Monyee · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

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Speaker 1: From grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in two
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Speaker 1: fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers to
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Speaker 1: always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired.
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Speaker 1: You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters.
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Speaker 1: They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the backs of diamond
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Speaker 1: eyed school children who groom into hymnals recited by amethyst
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Speaker 1: holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the
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Speaker 1: windows of restored Alchemedo cheriots. To keep the warmth of
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Speaker 1: their blood, be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown courts,
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Speaker 1: bloodstone and prayer, be every form of Jim se King told, scribe, scribe,
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Speaker 1: told son, son, told wife, wife told her daughter, and
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Speaker 1: daughter told the asses. And the ancess has told me
1:02
Speaker 1: that you would come to give wisdom. Thousands they said
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Speaker 1: you would come, Dropping Dropping Jim. Welcome back. We're on
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Speaker 1: episode twenty of the Dropping Gemps podcast. I'm your host
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Speaker 1: Stebbie Brown. Guys, today, I really want to deepen our
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Speaker 1: journey with the concept of Joey. Joy has become a
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Speaker 1: significant part of my life, especially in this very unique time.
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Speaker 1: So I would say the last seven months especially I
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Speaker 1: have completely revolutionized my spiritual practice, and it is sitting
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Speaker 1: inside of in golfing just radiating with joy, and it
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Speaker 1: has been such a major, major catalyst for transformation I
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Speaker 1: hadn't experienced yet. So I really want to speak to
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Speaker 1: that today with you guys. We're going to have a
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Speaker 1: special guest joining us a little bit later in the show,
2:01
Speaker 1: who I Love and who I just think is just
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Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant and incredible, and I'll get to her and
2:08
Speaker 1: ingest a bit and give you that full understanding of
2:11
Speaker 1: all the power that she stands in. But when we
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Speaker 1: think about joy, you know, I think it's really important
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Speaker 1: for us, and we're going to explore this through the
2:18
Speaker 1: show many many episodes and do a lot of beautiful
2:21
Speaker 1: and packing, but I think it's really important for us,
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Speaker 1: as we are on our different journeys, or as we're
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Speaker 1: experiencing ourselves in new ways, to always question what effect
2:32
Speaker 1: has colonialization or patriarchy, or systemic racism or capitalism had
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Speaker 1: on the way I experience healing or the way I
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Speaker 1: allow myself to experience myself. I think for women, and
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Speaker 1: especially women of color, we have always been pushed into
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Speaker 1: this false belief that love has to be earned that
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Speaker 1: lie is painful, that it just is, and that we
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Speaker 1: are not allowed to feel a process in real time,
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Speaker 1: that all we can do is go into this path
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Speaker 1: of forced resilience where we are just focused on how
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Speaker 1: strong we are and staying strong and not gifting ourselves
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Speaker 1: opportunities for tenderness and softness. And I, for one, and
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Speaker 1: I've talked about this in previous episodes, but I had
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Speaker 1: a really significant breakthrough on my journey a couple of
3:32
Speaker 1: years ago. And that's the that's the really beautiful and
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Speaker 1: divine thing about this journey, Right you think you've healed
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Speaker 1: something and then you notice that you're triggered again, And
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Speaker 1: what it really is, it doesn't mean that you haven't
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Speaker 1: healed or you didn't do all that work. It really
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Speaker 1: just means now there's opportunity to deepen that healing and
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Speaker 1: to deepen that understanding. So a couple of years ago,
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Speaker 1: something that came forward for me that was really revolutionary
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Speaker 1: in the way that I saw myself and created quite
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Speaker 1: a shift in the new system of ways I would
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Speaker 1: work with my spirituality were it was really focused on
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Speaker 1: having this this really this veil lifted on myself of
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Speaker 1: the way that I experienced me, and for me, that
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Speaker 1: came an understanding that my identity, my value system was
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Speaker 1: so wrapped up in how much pain I could tolerate
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Speaker 1: and how strong I was perceived as, and how many
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Speaker 1: things I was fixing for other people and fixing for myself.
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Speaker 1: And what I really came to understand is that although
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Speaker 1: those facets of my personality were something I really was
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Speaker 1: proud of and really treasured, you know, none of us
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Speaker 1: we all have challenges, right, and my strength and my
4:50
Speaker 1: ability to aid others, my ability to be this fixer
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Speaker 1: be a little more enlightened sometimes than some of the
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Speaker 1: areas I was in. You know, that was something I
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Speaker 1: was really proud of. It's something that helped me survive.
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Speaker 1: But I also saw that in that same vein, it
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Speaker 1: was so limiting and it kept me from really being
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Speaker 1: able to expand and stretch open my heart. And so
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Speaker 1: I didn't want to live a life where my value
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Speaker 1: was measured by how much pain I could tolerate, or
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Speaker 1: my value was measured by how resilient I was. To
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Speaker 1: have so strong, she's so strong, and you're the strong friend,
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Speaker 1: and you know, all those things that a lot of
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Speaker 1: us experience or receive funny memes made about on Instagram.
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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't want that to be my life anymore.
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Speaker 1: I've always been a really enthusiastic and exuberant person, but
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Speaker 1: I realized that there was a deficit of joy in
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Speaker 1: my life. I didn't really understand what joy even was.
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Speaker 1: Is that the same thing as happiness? Is it? I'm
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Speaker 1: just walking around celebrating all day, you know, I didn't
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Speaker 1: quite understand how to implement it in my life and
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Speaker 1: learned to embodiment. So for the last two years I
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Speaker 1: have been a journey of joy and coming into this
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Speaker 1: very unique moment in time. You know, we keep referencing this,
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Speaker 1: you know, unprecedented times, global pandemic, election, all of the
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Speaker 1: ways in which we're meeting ourselves more deeply because of
6:14
Speaker 1: the isolation and the uncertainty. You know, the last seven
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Speaker 1: months really gave me this gorgeous gift, gorgeous gift of
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Speaker 1: some pretty agonizing pain, but also learning how to transmute
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Speaker 1: that pain with joyousness. So if you follow me on
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Speaker 1: Instagram or you are part of my Karma gain community
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Speaker 1: on karma blist dot com, then you know I am
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Speaker 1: always talking about finding the tiny joys, finding the moments, big, small, grand, private,
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Speaker 1: to really savor the present moment, to really connect to
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Speaker 1: the gratitude of each moment and truly find worth and
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Speaker 1: depth and literally everything and anything. So for me, that
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Speaker 1: is how I've begun to cultivate and experience more joy
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Speaker 1: in my life. And before we get into our guests,
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Speaker 1: we're gonna have so much to talk about, and we're
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Speaker 1: going to really be on this show so often exploring joy,
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Speaker 1: whether that is you know, joy through celebration or joy
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Speaker 1: through pleasure, or new ways to make our journeys feel
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Speaker 1: better from the inside out. We're going to get into
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Speaker 1: so much of that over the next many, many episodes, um,
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Speaker 1: but today I really want to focus in on how
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Speaker 1: do we perceive joy? So the working definition for joy,
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Speaker 1: it's joy is a feeling of great pleasure and happiness.
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Speaker 1: The way that I experience it is more so as
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Speaker 1: this interesting combination of peace and celebration at once. And
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Speaker 1: sometimes it feels a little conflicting, right because we're kind
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Speaker 1: of taught that peace means like being very like, you know,
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Speaker 1: I'm still and I'm silent, and I'm kind of unmovable
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Speaker 1: to the storms of life. But I experienced peace really
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Speaker 1: is just gorgeous deep knowingness and surrender. And so when
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Speaker 1: I experienced joy for me, it feels like deep, deep
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Speaker 1: peace and also exuberant celebration, like really just oh my gosh,
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Speaker 1: I am so warm and on fire from my own
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Speaker 1: life inside of my body. So, you know, I think
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Speaker 1: also to um a lot of times when we're thinking
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Speaker 1: of joy, it's so often equated with what we assume
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Speaker 1: happiness is, and so sometimes it's hard to grasp what
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Speaker 1: joy can be in our life because if you're having
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Speaker 1: a bad day or perceived bad day, you're saying, well,
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Speaker 1: I'm not happy, So how do I have joy? I'm
8:54
Speaker 1: not happy about this, I'm not happy about that. And
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Speaker 1: I think it's important to know that, you know, when
8:59
Speaker 1: we think of joy, when we think of happiness, happiness
9:03
Speaker 1: for me often needs a catalyst of some sort. When
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Speaker 1: we think of that emotion, I am happy happiness, you know,
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Speaker 1: it's it's really something that that quite often requires a catalyst.
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Speaker 1: Versus joy is experienced as more of a deep aboding
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Speaker 1: and embodiment. So from the depths of you radiating out
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Speaker 1: into the world. I experienced joy also as just the
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Speaker 1: state of euphoria in the midst of being in full
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Speaker 1: surrender and in full trust, which means I am leaning
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Speaker 1: into fully the knowingness that life was designed to be uncertain,
9:50
Speaker 1: that we don't control anything other than how we feel
9:54
Speaker 1: about and treat ourselves. So for me, that feels like joy.
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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it's interesting. As I I
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Speaker 1: even dive into and develop more of my relationship with Joy,
10:04
Speaker 1: I always come back to this one particular passage in
10:07
Speaker 1: the Bible. And you guys know, I'm a lover of
10:09
Speaker 1: so many belief systems and so many sacred texts and
10:13
Speaker 1: so many you know, ascended masters and saints and just
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Speaker 1: embodiments of the divine. But when I think of joy
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Speaker 1: in this moment, in the moment that we're in the
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Speaker 1: country and the moment that we're in with ourselves, I
10:26
Speaker 1: think of this passage from Second Corinthians Um, which was
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Speaker 1: and I probably shared this on a really early episode
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Speaker 1: of the show, but when I was in a really difficult,
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Speaker 1: challenging state in my life eight years ago, this was
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Speaker 1: the passage that made me understand what faith was and
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Speaker 1: what surrender was. And you know, every time we reread
10:48
Speaker 1: something over the years with new circumstances, were able to
10:50
Speaker 1: deepen our connection to it, and so in this moment,
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Speaker 1: this passage for me also represents the freedom and the
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Speaker 1: ability to choose that we have at all moments, and
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Speaker 1: the joy that we can connect to even in the
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Speaker 1: midst of profound suffering and pain. And so Second Corinthians
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Speaker 1: the passage and it says I was given a thorn
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Speaker 1: in my flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me.
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Speaker 1: Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it
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Speaker 1: away from me, but he said, my grace is sufficient
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Speaker 1: for you, for my power is made perfect and weakness.
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Speaker 1: Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
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Speaker 1: so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why,
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Speaker 1: for Christ's sake, I delight in weakness and insults and
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Speaker 1: hardships and persecutions and difficulties. For when I am weak,
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Speaker 1: then I am strong. I love that. I love that
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Speaker 1: this this passage means so much for me, especially in
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Speaker 1: you know, finding way is to have joy, anyway, finding
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Speaker 1: ways to feel good about yourself and your life, regardless
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Speaker 1: of everything that feels like it's falling down all around us.
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Speaker 1: So the first time that I really started actively, actively,
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Speaker 1: actively pursuing joy like I don't mean I'm just passively
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Speaker 1: allowing perhaps I'll have some joy today, it'll flow in
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Speaker 1: and out. I mean I am in hot pursuit of
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Speaker 1: joy in every moment, like I am delightfully chasing it
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Speaker 1: and you know, playing hide and seek with it in
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Speaker 1: every day and every moment um. And that really kicked
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Speaker 1: off for me at the top of this pandemic. So
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Speaker 1: April may Ish, you know, life was. Life was so
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Speaker 1: radically shifting for me personally, professionally, also global. All the
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Speaker 1: things right, all the things were familiar with now, and
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Speaker 1: I said, I can't survive this without cultivating more joy.
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Speaker 1: And raising my son with joy is something that is
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Speaker 1: so significant and important for me. And so to do
13:07
Speaker 1: that and to do it authentically, I knew I had
13:09
Speaker 1: to find new ways to fill my cup and to
13:12
Speaker 1: supercharge my experiences of my spirituality. So for me, finding
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Speaker 1: joy looks like going outside and when I feel that
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Speaker 1: sun on my face, on my skin, when I get
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Speaker 1: a faint smell of something lovely, you know, going to
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Speaker 1: past my nose or the wind hits my face, taking
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Speaker 1: a moment to savor it, taking time to savor myself
13:39
Speaker 1: and to savor my day, and it could be seconds,
13:42
Speaker 1: it could be minutes, but really just saying, oh, that
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Speaker 1: feels good, and taking a moment to root and anchor
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Speaker 1: and that feeling and really accept that feeling and allow
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Speaker 1: myself the gift of it. So that's what I love
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Speaker 1: to do, really in each moment as I'm in the
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Speaker 1: world and privately as part of my spiritual practice. Joy
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Speaker 1: for me really looks like every single night, after I
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Speaker 1: put my kid out of bed, turning on, you know,
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Speaker 1: an epic playlist of some sorts that feels really good,
14:13
Speaker 1: lighting some candles, making some offerings, and then just dancing
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Speaker 1: and letting myself be free and letting myself build my
14:21
Speaker 1: own happiness and build my own joy. And that's what
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Speaker 1: I think is so important too about our spiritual practices
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Speaker 1: and our connection to joy as we grow, as we transform,
14:32
Speaker 1: as we heal. You know, it really teaches you the
14:35
Speaker 1: deeper understanding of how to self regulate to where I
14:38
Speaker 1: don't need a catalyst to feel good about myself for
14:42
Speaker 1: my life. My day doesn't even have to be technically
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Speaker 1: going well by comparative standards for me to still feel
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Speaker 1: good as hell about me. And that comes from really
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Speaker 1: anchoring your identity in your spirit, and not in the
14:59
Speaker 1: roles that we play, and not in the things we
15:01
Speaker 1: are for other people, not even in for the most part,
15:03
Speaker 1: our own fluctuating emotions, you know, just really anchoring in
15:08
Speaker 1: and finding what our personal recipe for feeling good is.
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Speaker 1: So we are going to get into so much of that.
15:15
Speaker 1: I have an amazing guest coming on the show. Her
15:17
Speaker 1: name is Thea Mounier, and Thea is just a remarkable, brilliant,
15:23
Speaker 1: brilliant woman. She's a therapist, she's a spiritual teacher. She
15:27
Speaker 1: has incredible programs that she does on decolonizing mental health,
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Speaker 1: healing with joy that are available on her Instagram and
15:34
Speaker 1: her website. She's done some really incredible campaigns and she
15:39
Speaker 1: and I actually met. Well, I'll save this for her,
15:42
Speaker 1: but let me finish giving you the beautiful rundown on her. So.
15:45
Speaker 1: She is a licensed marriage and family therapist, a writer,
15:49
Speaker 1: and a creative whose work stems from her unwavering commitment
15:52
Speaker 1: to healing and her belief that true healing can only
15:56
Speaker 1: occur in a liberated and non oppressive society. She is
16:00
Speaker 1: the host of Shaping the Shift podcast and the director
16:04
Speaker 1: of de Colonialization for the multimedia platform Black Girl Mixtape,
16:08
Speaker 1: as well as a curator of the Black or the
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Speaker 1: Brain decolonizing mental health series, and THEA is currently featured
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Speaker 1: as a go Daddy maker to discuss mental health and
16:18
Speaker 1: marginalized communities and accessing joy and pleasure. So, without further ado,
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Speaker 1: here she is THEA. Hey Devy, I'm so excited to
16:29
Speaker 1: be here, so excited anytime I get to talk to
16:32
Speaker 1: your girl, I am like, I am all in clear
16:35
Speaker 1: the day. Yes, let's do it. I'm so we've we
16:39
Speaker 1: promised that we would do this often, so we'ren yes.
16:42
Speaker 1: So THEA I was saving this story. Um, let me
16:46
Speaker 1: give a little background on out via and I'm neck guys.
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Speaker 1: So we were actually at the amazing My Leak Teals
16:54
Speaker 1: retreat that is my boo love me so my Leak um.
16:58
Speaker 1: She hosts a yearly beauty full retreat. And we were
17:02
Speaker 1: there and they and I and we were in Mexico,
17:05
Speaker 1: and I remember one of the days, uh, I think
17:08
Speaker 1: it was towards the end of our time there. I
17:10
Speaker 1: went out to the beach and I saw you and
17:14
Speaker 1: one of your girlfriends standing in the water, and I
17:17
Speaker 1: was like, I want to go talk to them. So
17:19
Speaker 1: I just walked over to you guys and I was like,
17:21
Speaker 1: can I join you in the ocean? That was so
17:25
Speaker 1: beautiful too, Like it was great, it was perfect timing, Yes,
17:29
Speaker 1: and you guys welcomed me in, and then we all
17:30
Speaker 1: just started talking about all the things as we're like
17:33
Speaker 1: literally wading in the water, Spirituality, motherhood, like which makes
17:38
Speaker 1: me because we were literally standing, so all those things
17:41
Speaker 1: naturally came forward and we just Yeah, we connected really deeply,
17:45
Speaker 1: and we have built and kept that friendship going. And
17:48
Speaker 1: I shared with everyone so many of the incredible things
17:51
Speaker 1: that you do and so much of the justest of
17:54
Speaker 1: brilliance that you embody, and so I was so excited
17:58
Speaker 1: to have you on the show. So THEA, let's let's
18:01
Speaker 1: like get into the meat of some of this, like
18:05
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the really we're gonna talk
18:09
Speaker 1: about all the yummy stuff as it relates to joy,
18:11
Speaker 1: but you know, let's talk about you're also you know,
18:14
Speaker 1: you're also a licensed therapist, and you're somebody who is
18:18
Speaker 1: deeply spiritual and deeply connected and intuitive and and really
18:22
Speaker 1: embedded in so much ritual. And so what I love
18:25
Speaker 1: is you know the deep I guess what we'd call
18:28
Speaker 1: like more scientific background to healing and then also you know,
18:32
Speaker 1: the beautiful understanding of how the divine heals outside of
18:37
Speaker 1: our own personal inquisitions of self. So when we think about,
18:41
Speaker 1: especially for the BIPOP community, when we think about the role,
18:45
Speaker 1: you know, mental health, much like wellness, are incredibly on
18:49
Speaker 1: trend right now. I mean, my gut, it's they are
18:52
Speaker 1: the they're the just these trigger words that are said
18:56
Speaker 1: so often and so often it's not really unders of
19:00
Speaker 1: what the meaning is. Like, you know, the things we
19:02
Speaker 1: keep hearing are you know, de stigmatized mental health or
19:05
Speaker 1: you know, care about your wellness, And it's like nobody
19:08
Speaker 1: is fully unpacking like how to do that because the
19:11
Speaker 1: conversation so far surpasses just saying like go to therapy, girl,
19:17
Speaker 1: find you a therapist. It's so far surpasses that. It's
19:20
Speaker 1: so much deeper than that. And as someone that has
19:23
Speaker 1: gone to therapy off and on for the last decade, um,
19:28
Speaker 1: you know, something that's so incredible, because there's always more
19:32
Speaker 1: to know about the movement to d colonized mental health
19:37
Speaker 1: is when I even reflect back on previous therapy sessions,
19:41
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my God, like being informed of the
19:46
Speaker 1: effect of colonialization, on the way we experience ourselves, on
19:51
Speaker 1: the way we connect to spirituality, connect to therapy. It
19:54
Speaker 1: is such a massive role that it is so understandable
19:59
Speaker 1: how someone could say, I've been in therapy for ten
20:01
Speaker 1: years and they haven't even healed, you know, necessarily a
20:04
Speaker 1: lot of the things they went in to heal, because
20:08
Speaker 1: the effects of colonialization are not really clearly understood most
20:14
Speaker 1: definitely by the patient, but really by most therapists that
20:17
Speaker 1: you go and speak to. I would say, yeah, I
20:20
Speaker 1: would I vast majority, And even if they understand it,
20:25
Speaker 1: it's not sanctioned within the field of mental health to
20:29
Speaker 1: even discuss or unpack. So what does it mean to
20:32
Speaker 1: de colonized mental health? So thank you for everything, I mean,
20:38
Speaker 1: for laying that out, for having me here. I'm so honored.
20:42
Speaker 1: You were definitely one of the big gifts that I
20:45
Speaker 1: left that retreat with and and it just continues to
20:48
Speaker 1: be a blessing. UM. So thank you, UM, thank you
20:52
Speaker 1: for even you know, having this conversation as we're raising awareness,
20:56
Speaker 1: because you're right, like these words like wellness and mental
20:59
Speaker 1: health come up, and when we see things become on
21:01
Speaker 1: trend like that, we can pretty much safely assume they've
21:04
Speaker 1: only entered the mainstream because they've been sanctioned by whiteness,
21:07
Speaker 1: which means they've been sanctioned by by that same colonial energy.
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Speaker 1: They've been colonized, Right, the concepts themselves have been colonized.
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Speaker 1: And so we have to begin with thinking about the
21:17
Speaker 1: fact that mental health as we practice it and as
21:20
Speaker 1: we see it originated within white culture, within specifically thinking
21:25
Speaker 1: about European white culture, specifically thinking about affluent European white culture. Right,
21:29
Speaker 1: that's a very narrow group of people that now when
21:34
Speaker 1: we say to somebody, go get therapy, girl, those are
21:37
Speaker 1: the people who were intended to receive this practice. And
21:41
Speaker 1: yet we're now mandating it for people without expanding the
21:45
Speaker 1: field to include their values and their perspectives and their
21:48
Speaker 1: stories and their ancestry. It's not that prior to that
21:52
Speaker 1: there weren't ways within our communities of managing emotion UM
21:58
Speaker 1: dealing with mental health. Usually a lot of those things
22:01
Speaker 1: dealt with community. It was viewed as a community issue
22:04
Speaker 1: if somebody was going through something like, what are we
22:07
Speaker 1: not offering them? What do they need? How can we
22:10
Speaker 1: support UM? And so when you look back pre colonial dates,
22:16
Speaker 1: it's not that you don't see strategies for wellness, or
22:20
Speaker 1: for mental health, or for spiritual health. It's just that
22:22
Speaker 1: they were more communal and they were more integrated. So
22:25
Speaker 1: it's not like we gave them a separate name or
22:26
Speaker 1: a separate category. It was built into what we were eating,
22:29
Speaker 1: It was built into how we were relating with each other,
22:31
Speaker 1: it was built into how we were relating to nature.
22:34
Speaker 1: And so separating it out in and of itself, it's
22:36
Speaker 1: already an indication that you started to encounter Western thought
22:40
Speaker 1: as dominant thought. Right, So the idea that mental health
22:43
Speaker 1: is separate from you know, folks religions and their spirituality,
22:48
Speaker 1: or how they prepare their food, or how they said
22:51
Speaker 1: at the kitchen table, that for us, all of these
22:53
Speaker 1: things are truly mental health. What what can we name
22:57
Speaker 1: that doesn't have an impact on our toal health? Right? Right? So? Right, Like,
23:03
Speaker 1: so mental health is actually everything and everywhere. It's not
23:06
Speaker 1: in this space or in this office, except it's only
23:09
Speaker 1: seemed as valid and it's only labeled as that when
23:12
Speaker 1: it happens within a framework that has been constructed by
23:16
Speaker 1: that affluent, white European ideal. Right, So what we say
23:21
Speaker 1: decolonized mental health what we're saying is let's go back. Really,
23:26
Speaker 1: what we're saying is, let's say colonize of society to
23:28
Speaker 1: be honest, because mental health is everywhere. We're saying, let's
23:32
Speaker 1: go back to a time when my humanity was so
23:34
Speaker 1: valid I didn't need a therapist. Let's go back to
23:37
Speaker 1: values that when I'm sick, people don't look at me
23:40
Speaker 1: and say something's wrong with me. They say what's wrong
23:42
Speaker 1: with us? And how can we work on that together.
23:44
Speaker 1: That's really the ultimate battle cry of what we're saying
23:47
Speaker 1: with the colonizing mental health. But we're challenging the field
23:50
Speaker 1: first because because it is a buzz word and because
23:53
Speaker 1: it can penetrate all areas of our life. Yeah, give
23:57
Speaker 1: me if you would. Let's help. Let's help illustrate this further,
24:01
Speaker 1: especially for people that maybe listening, that haven't even that
24:04
Speaker 1: are not on a therapy journey per se. So when
24:08
Speaker 1: I think about and please correct me, um, if you're understanding,
24:12
Speaker 1: but if I think about how I've experienced colonialism in therapy,
24:18
Speaker 1: it would be like, say I go into my therapist
24:22
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about things I'm experiencing in
24:26
Speaker 1: the workplace. You know, maybe I am really starting to
24:31
Speaker 1: feel a certain level of worthlessness or anxiety or anxiousness
24:36
Speaker 1: um in dealing with some coworkers where I work, and
24:41
Speaker 1: you know, there might be microaggressions happening network, and you know,
24:45
Speaker 1: all all of these different little things that are sometimes
24:47
Speaker 1: invisible to the naked eye, but you feel it, and
24:51
Speaker 1: you feel you know when some things are because you're
24:54
Speaker 1: a woman, or because of your race, or you know,
24:57
Speaker 1: there is a tone, there is a there's a deeper
25:00
Speaker 1: intuitiveness than that. And so I may be talking to
25:03
Speaker 1: my therapist about and she she might be helping me
25:05
Speaker 1: unpack it, right, She might be like, well, so tell me, so,
25:08
Speaker 1: how does that make you feel? Or tell me you
25:10
Speaker 1: know what comes up for you when that person does that.
25:12
Speaker 1: But then there's this elephant in the room that we
25:15
Speaker 1: haven't talked about, which is perhaps what I'm intuiting is
25:19
Speaker 1: valid based on systemic racism, based on colonialism, based on
25:25
Speaker 1: you know, all of the systems of oppression and plays
25:27
Speaker 1: against women, against people of color. And so actually, like,
25:32
Speaker 1: instead of me navigating how to just focus on myself
25:37
Speaker 1: and my role in things, it's like calling out, well,
25:40
Speaker 1: your boss is most likely you know, bigoted or racist
25:45
Speaker 1: or you know, this might be mail aggression or and
25:49
Speaker 1: I'm making this scenario completely up, but you know, it's
25:52
Speaker 1: like it's it's those unspoken elephants in the room that
25:55
Speaker 1: are the effect of colonialism that don't get talked about
25:59
Speaker 1: when you're in a session. And so what I found
26:01
Speaker 1: is so many of us walk around, especially up until
26:06
Speaker 1: recently the last couple of years, when we've been having
26:08
Speaker 1: these expansive conversations, so many of us walk around and
26:11
Speaker 1: it's as if everything is our fault, or as if
26:15
Speaker 1: you're imagining, or as if it's like somehow I was
26:18
Speaker 1: just born into this hole that I can't climb out of.
26:21
Speaker 1: And when you go to get help and you go
26:22
Speaker 1: to get resources, people are only directing you to understand
26:27
Speaker 1: what you can do differently, what you can do better,
26:29
Speaker 1: but without validating that your experience is such because of
26:35
Speaker 1: all of the systems and structures in places. Yes, so
26:40
Speaker 1: crystal clear, perfect example, right, perfect example. And so because
26:45
Speaker 1: you laid that out so well, what I can now
26:47
Speaker 1: do is go back and point out all the spaces
26:50
Speaker 1: that something should have and could have been done differently. Right.
26:52
Speaker 1: So the first thing is when we assess clients, when
26:56
Speaker 1: they're coming in for mental health services, we need to
27:00
Speaker 1: ask questions about systemic oppression, spystemic racism. Have you experienced it,
27:04
Speaker 1: how has it shown up in your life? You know,
27:06
Speaker 1: what are your feelings about these things that already acknowledges
27:10
Speaker 1: that what you're coming in here to work on there's
27:14
Speaker 1: a portion of it that wouldn't exist if we were
27:16
Speaker 1: in a different society that value different things. Right. So,
27:20
Speaker 1: one of things I always say is if I took
27:22
Speaker 1: somebody from the society and put them in a more
27:24
Speaker 1: affirming society and their issues go away, right, the anxiety,
27:30
Speaker 1: the depression, the self worth, right, the feelings that I
27:33
Speaker 1: have to be productive, I have to be on all
27:34
Speaker 1: the time because I moved them into a non capitalistic, affirming,
27:39
Speaker 1: non racialized society. Then it's never been the person's illness.
27:43
Speaker 1: The person is actually demonstrating and screaming out for the
27:47
Speaker 1: society to recognize its own illness. We are reflecting back
27:51
Speaker 1: that illness, right. And so when you do therapy, the
27:56
Speaker 1: way it's set up in a in a colonized way
27:58
Speaker 1: is they don't have the tools or the language to
28:02
Speaker 1: even assess for it because it's very problem centered and
28:05
Speaker 1: problem focused and so you do leave their feeling like one.
28:10
Speaker 1: They've never named systemic oppression, they've never named racism. They've
28:13
Speaker 1: never said hey, are you know we do and not
28:16
Speaker 1: even asking right because they would say do you think
28:18
Speaker 1: it's racism? No, don't say that. Say well, we know
28:22
Speaker 1: that we live in a society that is rooted in
28:25
Speaker 1: anti blackness, and we know that corporations and businesses set
28:29
Speaker 1: up a model based on plantations. Right, that is the
28:32
Speaker 1: model for modern day business. And you can listen to
28:35
Speaker 1: that back in the sixteen nineteen project. That's how we
28:39
Speaker 1: established business. Right, that's how we established the workplace off
28:42
Speaker 1: of plantations. So we know that these are the facts,
28:46
Speaker 1: and as a therapist, I felt it's important that I
28:48
Speaker 1: state those facts. I'm not even gonna ask you that question, right,
28:52
Speaker 1: do you think it could be? Right? Because then it's
28:54
Speaker 1: like still on you. Right, it's like, well, let's just
28:57
Speaker 1: call a thing a thing, right, and that that is
29:01
Speaker 1: playing a role in what you're experiencing, or it could
29:05
Speaker 1: be because maybe that person isn't ready to admit that
29:08
Speaker 1: it could be about racism, and they're like, oh, well
29:10
Speaker 1: maybe I never because we don't always give reselves permission,
29:13
Speaker 1: because we don't think it will be valid validated value.
29:17
Speaker 1: So exactly what you said what that person should have
29:20
Speaker 1: done is they should have walked it into the room.
29:23
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have had to and before you even as
29:26
Speaker 1: if you identified as a person of color, then in
29:29
Speaker 1: your assessment, there should have been information and things that
29:33
Speaker 1: signal to you that it was okay to discuss this
29:35
Speaker 1: in a racialized way. Um. And so those are some
29:38
Speaker 1: of the steps that we're trying to put into the
29:41
Speaker 1: processes when we think about the back of the brain,
29:43
Speaker 1: because that makes all the difference in the world, because
29:45
Speaker 1: then you're not gonna tell me to just go debreathe
29:46
Speaker 1: and drink some water. You're going to tell me too
29:50
Speaker 1: that I'm valuable and I'm that and what I'm experiencing
29:54
Speaker 1: is real, and not leave me, and that is enough.
29:58
Speaker 1: Sometimes now walk away from your office wondering if I'm
30:02
Speaker 1: crazy or feeling so vulnerable that I expose myself in
30:06
Speaker 1: this way. You know, Yeah, and you know so much
30:08
Speaker 1: of like the process of transforming ourselves, whether that is
30:14
Speaker 1: through therapy or that's through our own spiritual practices. But
30:18
Speaker 1: you know, very often in the beginning, it's like you
30:20
Speaker 1: are looking up at this giant mountain and you're saying,
30:22
Speaker 1: how the hell will I scale this? How do I
30:25
Speaker 1: even attempt to climb this mountain? I'm now getting downloads
30:29
Speaker 1: of all the things out of alignment in my life,
30:31
Speaker 1: of all the traumas I've experienced in their effects, and
30:34
Speaker 1: how do I even attempt this? You know? And I
30:36
Speaker 1: think from what you were saying so much if there
30:41
Speaker 1: is uh more of a thoughtfulness and the implementation of
30:46
Speaker 1: these understandings that you've shared within all therapy and therapies.
30:52
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the word environment, you know,
30:54
Speaker 1: then that would um, it's not a mountain anymore, because
30:59
Speaker 1: it's it's not about you, Yeah, it's not, well, not
31:02
Speaker 1: just about you. You're understanding your role in the collective.
31:06
Speaker 1: And so then there's opportunity to find peace that even
31:09
Speaker 1: though these systems exist where in the we're in the
31:11
Speaker 1: process as always of trying to dismantle them. But you know,
31:16
Speaker 1: these systems have been in place since the dawn of
31:18
Speaker 1: since the inception of society as a construct. It would
31:23
Speaker 1: help us, you know, understand how to still access joy
31:27
Speaker 1: and worth and meaning in our lives even if these
31:30
Speaker 1: systems are still in place and power and some part
31:36
Speaker 1: of what you have to ask as a practitioner, any
31:39
Speaker 1: sort of practitioner, because because wellness, if you're a yoga instructor,
31:43
Speaker 1: you cannot work with black bodies and yoga the way
31:45
Speaker 1: you work with white bodies and yoga. We carry different things,
31:50
Speaker 1: and so does your practice, your yoga practice understand that,
31:54
Speaker 1: because what you're teaching accommodate for for what we're storing
31:57
Speaker 1: in our hips, in our bodies. Does your yoga a
32:00
Speaker 1: practice accommodate people who were once enslaved and could not
32:04
Speaker 1: authorize within their own bodies? Right, So it gives them peace,
32:09
Speaker 1: right because if there's the validation, but it also gives
32:11
Speaker 1: them power, like to walk out of that space and
32:14
Speaker 1: be like, I'm not crazy, you're crazy. This is crazy.
32:17
Speaker 1: Tony Morrison said, racism is neurotic, it is psychotic, It
32:21
Speaker 1: is crazy, and it feels crazy, and she's accurate in that.
32:24
Speaker 1: But we when we put it on the people who
32:27
Speaker 1: are experiencing it, then we are saying, no, it's not that,
32:31
Speaker 1: it's not crazy, you're crazy, which is gaslighting. Right. So
32:34
Speaker 1: then here we are as people who are here to help,
32:37
Speaker 1: as people who have good intentions, but we're being used
32:39
Speaker 1: as an extension of a system to gaslight people back
32:43
Speaker 1: into what work, back into work, back into line, back
32:47
Speaker 1: into capitalism, back into the same plantation system that we
32:51
Speaker 1: all grew up in, right, And so that power piece
32:55
Speaker 1: is so important because that begs the question, if you
32:57
Speaker 1: are a healing practitioner, no matter what area of wellness
33:00
Speaker 1: you find yourself in, who do you work for? Do
33:03
Speaker 1: you work for the society or do you work for
33:05
Speaker 1: the liberation of the people that you're serving, Because those
33:08
Speaker 1: are two very different ball games. If I work for
33:10
Speaker 1: the society, then all I'm trying to do is get
33:13
Speaker 1: this person called mis centered enough to go back to
33:15
Speaker 1: work and functioning. But if I work for this person
33:18
Speaker 1: that I don't just want them to leave at peace
33:20
Speaker 1: and at ease. I want them to leave empowered and
33:22
Speaker 1: self authorizing because I want them I recognize that the
33:26
Speaker 1: only way the work that I'm doing makes sense is
33:30
Speaker 1: if one day it heals everything. I have to be
33:34
Speaker 1: able to envision a world that's not sick. And if
33:38
Speaker 1: I'm a healer, and that's what I say, I'm committed to.
33:42
Speaker 1: It's not just about this person. It's about making sure
33:44
Speaker 1: this person is equipped to go back out into that
33:46
Speaker 1: world and say no, I'm not the sick one. And
33:50
Speaker 1: and in doing that that I need to be challenging
33:53
Speaker 1: that system and saying it's sick. I need to be
33:56
Speaker 1: calling get out right, because my goal is to heal
34:02
Speaker 1: us all unless my goal is just to sit here
34:05
Speaker 1: and play my role within the system. Yes, God, and
34:09
Speaker 1: what you just spoke to first of all, it's all
34:12
Speaker 1: so damn powerful. So let me just sitting that for
34:14
Speaker 1: a second. Well, so you know what I'm really hearing
34:17
Speaker 1: from this too, And and this isn't I didn't even
34:22
Speaker 1: learn to apply this word to myself in the last
34:25
Speaker 1: couple of years, and I didn't even see where it
34:27
Speaker 1: applied to moments in my life. But a big, big
34:31
Speaker 1: part of the experience of being non white in America
34:35
Speaker 1: is just not understanding how to having permission to or
34:40
Speaker 1: even knowing that you can advocate for yourself self. Advocation
34:46
Speaker 1: has changed everything about my life and what it really is.
34:51
Speaker 1: It builds up your confidence and your personal power when
34:54
Speaker 1: you're able to exercise it in real time. And so
34:57
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing from a lot of what you were
34:58
Speaker 1: sharing is even just the knowledge and being validated that
35:04
Speaker 1: these systems are at play and are at work. That
35:07
Speaker 1: awareness then empowers you to an every moment advocate otherwise
35:12
Speaker 1: and every moment call out things in real time and
35:15
Speaker 1: have the confidence in doing so and in understanding what
35:18
Speaker 1: these structures are and in knowing when you are being mistreated,
35:23
Speaker 1: even at a micro micro level, because the mistreatment in
35:26
Speaker 1: this country doesn't just happen on those macro levels. It's
35:29
Speaker 1: not it's not the big moments you know all the
35:32
Speaker 1: time where you're walking down the street and someone maybe
35:34
Speaker 1: calls you the N word, or you know, some man
35:37
Speaker 1: um you know, without consent tries to touch you or
35:40
Speaker 1: be you know, um belittles you because you don't want
35:43
Speaker 1: to give them attention. It's usually in those tiny little
35:46
Speaker 1: macro ways, those little quick little words or tones or
35:50
Speaker 1: you know, body language, and being able to be equipped
35:54
Speaker 1: without awareness and build up that personal power of advocating
35:59
Speaker 1: for yourself when you've all mistreated or calling things out
36:01
Speaker 1: in real time, that is what you know. Ideally, you
36:05
Speaker 1: should be walking out of a therapy session building in yourself.
36:09
Speaker 1: That should be the muscle you're building how to stand
36:11
Speaker 1: in your truth, how to know what's real and true
36:14
Speaker 1: and what isn't and what's programming. And this is where
36:19
Speaker 1: you're gonna love this because this is where the spirituality
36:21
Speaker 1: piece comes in. Right. This is why when we talk
36:24
Speaker 1: about de colonizing mental health, we are simultaneously talking about
36:27
Speaker 1: activating ancestral practices and integrating spirituality. Right because Okay, when
36:34
Speaker 1: that person walks out affirmed, right and validated without even
36:39
Speaker 1: my help, after that point, there's a natural process where
36:42
Speaker 1: that third chakra begins to activate, right that that sense
36:45
Speaker 1: of self, that sense of autonomy and authority, and what
36:50
Speaker 1: can support that further is your spiritual practice. Right. So
36:56
Speaker 1: for me, I practice after spirituality partly because I get
36:58
Speaker 1: to see energies and the form of black women who
37:03
Speaker 1: walk around and are like, I can't even feel you're
37:07
Speaker 1: evil that you're trying to throw at me. I don't
37:09
Speaker 1: even recognize this as valid, Like I don't even know
37:13
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, Like I can't it can't even
37:15
Speaker 1: like to walk around in so much power. And I
37:18
Speaker 1: couldn't find examples of that in Western um spiritual practices,
37:23
Speaker 1: but there's so many and Afro spirituality that like when
37:26
Speaker 1: I'm like when I go from that therapist office and
37:29
Speaker 1: then I then I pick up a book on o
37:31
Speaker 1: yah or on oshoon or on Yeah. But yeah, I'm
37:33
Speaker 1: like and and I'm like, I can do that, right,
37:36
Speaker 1: I can authorize myself in that way. You know, it's
37:40
Speaker 1: so interesting to watch. I mean even you know, we've
37:43
Speaker 1: been going through election stuff, but like I'm watching the
37:47
Speaker 1: self authorization of people and them self liberate and and
37:51
Speaker 1: I a cohort member, Darnicia Lawson said, is a part
37:55
Speaker 1: of our the Black or the Brain cohort. And we
37:57
Speaker 1: have these ongoing conversations about this. I mean, you're going
38:00
Speaker 1: to have to come talk to this cohort. I cannot wait. Yeah,
38:03
Speaker 1: it's great. There, You're gonna love it. They're brilliant. And
38:05
Speaker 1: she was like, I just want to be clear that
38:07
Speaker 1: what we are advocating for is not emancipation. It's liberation, right.
38:11
Speaker 1: Emancipation is waiting for someone to come free you. And
38:15
Speaker 1: I do feel like a lot of us have been
38:16
Speaker 1: trained to condition to wait for emancipation. Oh my gosh,
38:20
Speaker 1: I feel like that I was that so many of
38:22
Speaker 1: and it and it comes in so many forms, right,
38:24
Speaker 1: like not even just in the historical context of like
38:28
Speaker 1: being emancipated, right, like like being told you can be
38:32
Speaker 1: free instead of knowing you were free. But then also
38:36
Speaker 1: especially for women down to you know, the simplest things
38:39
Speaker 1: like growing up on Disney movies and cartoons, that that's
38:42
Speaker 1: say that I'm sleeping, I'm sleeping beauty and someone came
38:47
Speaker 1: to free me, or you know, the posle and someone
38:50
Speaker 1: came to free me, and that was my only means
38:53
Speaker 1: of being free. Yeah wow, yeah, And so she she
38:56
Speaker 1: highlighted that and that we we are actively rooted in
38:59
Speaker 1: liberation meaning people. We believe people have the power to
39:02
Speaker 1: self authorize and self govern right and self um and
39:07
Speaker 1: self liberate. So part of what we have to know though,
39:10
Speaker 1: is most of the people were dealing with have been
39:13
Speaker 1: trained in condition for emancipation, which is why our role
39:16
Speaker 1: as healers is so important. In that moment, we are
39:18
Speaker 1: engaging in an act of emancipation because that's what they've
39:21
Speaker 1: been conditioned for. But then we have to set them
39:23
Speaker 1: up to sustain their liberation from that point forward, right,
39:27
Speaker 1: And so when they bring in their ancestral practices, and
39:30
Speaker 1: they bring in their ideas, and they bring in so
39:32
Speaker 1: many beautiful aspects of themselves and their individual individuality, it
39:36
Speaker 1: is our job to continue to affirm and build with
39:39
Speaker 1: that not to say, well, I don't know. I think
39:42
Speaker 1: Freud would have done it this way. Funk Freud. They're
39:44
Speaker 1: talking about Freid. He's a indciation. You know what I'm saying.
39:46
Speaker 1: We're talking about you and your life, you know, and
39:50
Speaker 1: everything you're saying is completely Validlet's build it in and
39:52
Speaker 1: I'll bring my knowledge, you bring your knowledge, and I
39:54
Speaker 1: bring my answers and you bring my answers. And this
39:57
Speaker 1: is what the colonized therapy is, right. We all hear
40:00
Speaker 1: a family, community, spiritual and in the physical world working
40:04
Speaker 1: together towards a healing moment, a healing opportunity. You know
40:08
Speaker 1: what the of course the miracle says, is a miracle,
40:11
Speaker 1: this healing moment of revelation where we see each other
40:13
Speaker 1: as we truly are. That's it. That's all we're trying
40:15
Speaker 1: to create, and we cannot do that through a colonized winds. Yeah,
40:21
Speaker 1: everybody listening is your iPhone on fire right now? Wow,
40:27
Speaker 1: talk to me about black or the brain co co
40:30
Speaker 1: cohort because I know so many people listening. Um, I mean,
40:34
Speaker 1: this is something this is something so revolutionary, and I
40:38
Speaker 1: know so many of the listeners of this show. We're
40:40
Speaker 1: gonna be like I need to add this to cart,
40:41
Speaker 1: Like give me. I'm so excited about it. And let
40:44
Speaker 1: me tell you're already like black or the rain in it.
40:48
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you know, I mean curious, you're like
40:53
Speaker 1: me and you we go together, so we're gonna be
40:56
Speaker 1: We're gonna be weaved into all of one another's projects.
40:58
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, Dee's part of the cohor So
41:02
Speaker 1: so the Black of the Brain is a movement, you know,
41:06
Speaker 1: And and I had to accept that name. It was
41:09
Speaker 1: actually one of our cohort members that described it that way,
41:11
Speaker 1: and I was like, that feels like a lot. And
41:13
Speaker 1: then I was like, Okay, that's what it is. Right,
41:15
Speaker 1: It is a movement. I hear, I hear to talk
41:18
Speaker 1: in that a little bit. The black are the very
41:21
Speaker 1: right exactly. It's totally influenced, right, And so um it's
41:25
Speaker 1: a conversation, an ongoing conversation. We have a cohort and
41:29
Speaker 1: we have um a campaign. Right. So the campaign is
41:32
Speaker 1: this part of just like building awareness about what do
41:35
Speaker 1: we what do we mean when we say de colonized
41:37
Speaker 1: and mental health? What are we talking about? And then
41:39
Speaker 1: we use that to engage people into the conversations, which
41:41
Speaker 1: are lecture series that you can tap into. We do
41:44
Speaker 1: them like once every six weeks. And the next one
41:47
Speaker 1: we have coming up it's called Free to Heal, which
41:49
Speaker 1: is like the practices. What would it look like to
41:52
Speaker 1: decolonize um all your practices. Now here's the thing what
41:56
Speaker 1: I love, love, love about the Black of the Brain.
41:58
Speaker 1: The first thing about it is it's not just about
42:00
Speaker 1: mental health, even though it's called the Black of the Brain.
42:02
Speaker 1: It's interdisciplinary. We have teachers, educators, professors, physicians, people in tech.
42:08
Speaker 1: Our cohort is so amazing because what mental health is everywhere.
42:12
Speaker 1: If you work at a grocery store, I would love
42:14
Speaker 1: for you to be a part of the Black of
42:15
Speaker 1: the Brain because how persons treated in customer service impacts
42:19
Speaker 1: their mental health there. I can't think of a single
42:22
Speaker 1: area or person that could be left out of this conversation.
42:24
Speaker 1: And the more we get people from these different spaces,
42:27
Speaker 1: the more beautiful it becomes. And so the cohort is interdisciplinary,
42:32
Speaker 1: multi racial, multi ethnic, multi identities. We have such a
42:38
Speaker 1: good time because we are joy centered in our work
42:42
Speaker 1: and we're badass about it, like you can be both right,
42:45
Speaker 1: like you could be you know, joy is are metric
42:47
Speaker 1: as we're creating these concepts and these ideas about how
42:51
Speaker 1: can we create a plan for families who have a
42:53
Speaker 1: person in their families suffering from mental health illness so
42:55
Speaker 1: that they don't have to call the police and run
42:58
Speaker 1: that risk as a black body. Right, we're creating that,
43:01
Speaker 1: but we're centering joy in that process so that everything
43:04
Speaker 1: we produce brings joy and power to the people who
43:08
Speaker 1: are using these tools and these strategies. Um. So it's
43:12
Speaker 1: it's expensive. Like I just feel like next year, with
43:16
Speaker 1: this group that we have, you're going to see like documentation, presentations, curriculum, Um,
43:23
Speaker 1: you're gonna see mentorship. But we're working with new our
43:26
Speaker 1: new little therapy babies who are coming up through the
43:28
Speaker 1: grad programs. We're gonna catch them early, decolonize them earlier.
43:32
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It's it's just it's everything.
43:35
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful. It's like my favorite thing to talk
43:37
Speaker 1: about right now. I love it. I love it, love it,
43:40
Speaker 1: love it, love it. Please guys, And I put this
43:43
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show, But you gotta connect
43:45
Speaker 1: with the like you got ahead to your Instagram, you
43:48
Speaker 1: got ahead to your website, talk to me about joy.
43:51
Speaker 1: Let's talk about healing with joy. So top of the show,
43:55
Speaker 1: I shared some of my experiences with really expanding my
44:00
Speaker 1: capacity for joy, and the way that I really did
44:02
Speaker 1: that was by leaning into the tiny joys of every day,
44:06
Speaker 1: in each moment, and so feeling deep gratitude and presence
44:10
Speaker 1: and anchoring in you know, when the sun hits my skin,
44:14
Speaker 1: or you know, catching um, being able to like look
44:18
Speaker 1: my son in his eyes and you know, smile at
44:20
Speaker 1: one another, or all of the moments that are not grand.
44:23
Speaker 1: I think so often we think, oh, joy, that sounds big,
44:27
Speaker 1: that actually maybe sounds bigger than happy, and so that
44:30
Speaker 1: means like you know, like a three day stay at Disneyland,
44:34
Speaker 1: or that means you know, some giant celebration or and
44:38
Speaker 1: joy is for me that that deep aboding and that embodiment. Um,
44:44
Speaker 1: So talk to me, how does one number one heal
44:47
Speaker 1: through joy? But number two, if joy is not even
44:51
Speaker 1: in your emotional rolodex, if it's not in your mental rolodex,
44:56
Speaker 1: how does one begin to court joy, to flirt with joy,
45:00
Speaker 1: to invite joy in? You know, I don't even I'm
45:03
Speaker 1: trying to think where do we begin with this? Because
45:06
Speaker 1: joy is so expensive to me. Um, So I'll there's two.
45:14
Speaker 1: There's so many things. Okay, joy is healing, Joy is transformational,
45:18
Speaker 1: and joy is a metric. So joy is healing is
45:23
Speaker 1: really important for us to discuss when we're talking to
45:26
Speaker 1: bipop communities who have weaved the story of struggle into
45:33
Speaker 1: their story of resilience, because they we tend to remember
45:40
Speaker 1: the harder things more than we remember the beautiful things.
45:45
Speaker 1: And at times, even in the hard things, it were
45:49
Speaker 1: these small, beautiful things that sustained us. But let's talk
45:52
Speaker 1: about that for a quick second. If we're in the
45:54
Speaker 1: midle of all this hard stuff and this one beautiful
45:58
Speaker 1: thing was enough to sustain us, that actually means that
46:00
Speaker 1: the beautiful thing was more powerful, so powerful that it
46:04
Speaker 1: was not even necessary to have a large dose of
46:07
Speaker 1: it to even sustain your generation or the generation that
46:10
Speaker 1: came after you. So the joy is that takes me
46:13
Speaker 1: to joy is transformational. It's a very powerful tool. It's
46:17
Speaker 1: a very powerful weapon, right. It's it's something that you
46:22
Speaker 1: don't need to have in large doses in order to
46:25
Speaker 1: maintain and sustain a brilliant, beautiful life. But you have
46:29
Speaker 1: permission to access larger doses if you want to. And
46:33
Speaker 1: the key for most people, like you're saying is we
46:36
Speaker 1: have been again, even thinking about mental health, even thinking
46:39
Speaker 1: about our school systems, even thinking about our workplaces. Their
46:42
Speaker 1: conditioned to look at problems. They're not conditioned to identify
46:46
Speaker 1: what makes me happy, what feels good. They're not conditioned
46:49
Speaker 1: towards embodiment. They're not conditioned towards healthy relationships with bodies.
46:53
Speaker 1: So enjoy, you really experienced joy first in your body.
46:57
Speaker 1: So joy requires a relationship with your body, because then
47:01
Speaker 1: you feel you see what I'm saying that that now
47:06
Speaker 1: taking back to going back to people who have been disenfranchised,
47:09
Speaker 1: who couldn't own their own bodies, and speaking to the
47:12
Speaker 1: point you made earlier too about being in yoga or
47:15
Speaker 1: being you know, I would I would leave meditations early
47:18
Speaker 1: and early in in that piece in my career, and
47:21
Speaker 1: I would go into a room and I'd say, all right,
47:23
Speaker 1: let's gently close our eyes, and no one could close
47:26
Speaker 1: their eyes. They'd be no one could close their staring
47:28
Speaker 1: at me, you know, just in what felt like terror
47:32
Speaker 1: almost because when you close your eyes, you're inside of
47:35
Speaker 1: yourself and you're vulnerable, and you don't necessarily feel safe
47:39
Speaker 1: in you, And so to that point, I thought that
47:42
Speaker 1: was just an incredible illustration of how deep that goes,
47:46
Speaker 1: how how robbed we have been of joy and of
47:49
Speaker 1: even knowing how to access it, how foreign it feels.
47:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely we have to so in order to access joy,
47:55
Speaker 1: we have to reclaim our DNA, and in order to
47:58
Speaker 1: reclaim our DNA, we have to reclaim our bodies and
48:02
Speaker 1: are in every cell. And I do love the practice
48:05
Speaker 1: of yoga, especially when practice theory colonized lens, because it
48:08
Speaker 1: does just that, it creates its embodiment. I love the
48:11
Speaker 1: practice of dance because it does that. I love the
48:14
Speaker 1: practice of reiki because it does that. I love massage.
48:17
Speaker 1: There all these things say it's safe to return to
48:20
Speaker 1: your body. We know that trauma sort of pushes you
48:23
Speaker 1: out of your body, rejects you from your body, and
48:26
Speaker 1: when it's happening repeatedly, you just find a new home
48:29
Speaker 1: outside of your own body for safety reasons. Hold sit
48:33
Speaker 1: there for a second, Hold on, hold on, hold on,
48:37
Speaker 1: mm hmm. What does that mean? Unpack that? Please? Yeah?
48:41
Speaker 1: I think what it means is like we when we
48:44
Speaker 1: talk about systemic oppression, and I hope, no matter who
48:48
Speaker 1: wins this election, we must continue to now pay attention
48:53
Speaker 1: to Can we now look at the true effects of
48:57
Speaker 1: this thing called racism, of this thing called slavery, because
49:01
Speaker 1: what it means is that for centuries black people weren't
49:06
Speaker 1: just forced to flee and be away from their homes.
49:09
Speaker 1: They were forced to flee their bodies, which were their homes.
49:12
Speaker 1: And now their home is this somewhere in the mind,
49:17
Speaker 1: which isn't a place of their own construction, right, And
49:21
Speaker 1: so there's this this idea that if I go back
49:25
Speaker 1: into my body, I have to feel not just my
49:27
Speaker 1: pain but my great great grandmother's pain. I have to
49:30
Speaker 1: feel not just my pain, but I have to feel
49:32
Speaker 1: Emmett tells mother's pain. I have to feel um, you know,
49:36
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin's Sabrina Volts. I have to feel all these
49:40
Speaker 1: this pain. So why do that? Why be in my body?
49:43
Speaker 1: And then when we look at health outcomes and we
49:46
Speaker 1: try to say, well, don't eat this and don't do that.
49:49
Speaker 1: I don't even feel when I'm full. I don't even
49:52
Speaker 1: know what it feels like in my body to have
49:55
Speaker 1: high blood pressure because I'm not there. It's safer to
49:59
Speaker 1: not be there. When I'm there, people are staring at
50:01
Speaker 1: me when I'm there. People are assuming things about me
50:04
Speaker 1: when I'm but to turn that off just to be
50:06
Speaker 1: able to continue to function in a racist society. That
50:10
Speaker 1: is a sickness that we have created, that has been
50:13
Speaker 1: created that is man made right, which means we can
50:17
Speaker 1: repair it. And so I start by helping people with embodiment.
50:21
Speaker 1: I don't think you can do decolonized mental health without
50:25
Speaker 1: working with embodiment practitioners, which we have many in the
50:28
Speaker 1: black or the brain, because it's something about saying, even
50:32
Speaker 1: if you don't deem your body safe yet, is not
50:35
Speaker 1: not safe because of you. It's not safe because of
50:38
Speaker 1: what's happening outside of you. And so you deserve to
50:42
Speaker 1: occupy your space because it is not your body's fault
50:46
Speaker 1: that it's not deemed a safe place. And the only
50:48
Speaker 1: way we're gonna get it to move to a safer
50:51
Speaker 1: place is if you feel empowered enough to inhabit it
50:56
Speaker 1: and then to demand while you're in it pleasure and joy.
51:00
Speaker 1: And that is liberation. That is libration, and it can
51:04
Speaker 1: happen if you are anywhere at any given time, but
51:09
Speaker 1: it begins with that return um. And so sometimes I
51:14
Speaker 1: use food with people to help them slow down and
51:17
Speaker 1: catch that. But usually what I do is use joy
51:19
Speaker 1: as a metric. So I will say, joy is that
51:22
Speaker 1: feeling you get when everything is like really clear, right,
51:27
Speaker 1: It's like who you just feel this perfect alignment. It's
51:30
Speaker 1: like almost floating. And we we do get moments of that,
51:34
Speaker 1: but we move through it so quickly because we're not
51:37
Speaker 1: embodied that we don't sustain that feeling of joy, and
51:41
Speaker 1: we don't know what it means. We don't know that
51:43
Speaker 1: we have the power to stretch it out or to
51:45
Speaker 1: make it a lifestyle. And so it's I tell them when.
51:50
Speaker 1: And so what they do know, though, how you can
51:52
Speaker 1: teach them about joy and their bodies real quick is um,
51:56
Speaker 1: they know what they know what discomfort feels like. They're
51:59
Speaker 1: very used to that, right. So what I'll do is
52:01
Speaker 1: tell them and I learned this exercise working with restorative Justice. Um,
52:06
Speaker 1: hold a note in your body while nodding yes, and
52:10
Speaker 1: then holding yes in your body while nodding no. That
52:13
Speaker 1: incongruence that you feel that is the opposite of joy.
52:19
Speaker 1: Right the second, everybody listening, I want you to gently
52:23
Speaker 1: close your eyes if it's safe where you are, take
52:26
Speaker 1: a breath in through your nose, hold it at the top,
52:32
Speaker 1: and let's exhale through our mouths. And let's do that
52:40
Speaker 1: one more time. We're gonna take a deep breath in,
52:42
Speaker 1: hold it at the top, exhale to the mouth, breath in.
52:53
Speaker 1: Now with your eyes still gently closed, I want you
52:57
Speaker 1: to think and connect to the feeling of no. So first,
53:03
Speaker 1: let's just think and connect to say no inside of ourselves.
53:07
Speaker 1: And as we're saying no inside of ourselves, let's not
53:10
Speaker 1: our head yes mm hmm. Now let's clear that energy
53:20
Speaker 1: out and I want you to say yes inside of yourself.
53:23
Speaker 1: I want you to feel enthusiastic about this. Yes. It's
53:28
Speaker 1: like yes, yes, yes, say that inside the deepest place possible. Yes.
53:36
Speaker 1: And as you're feeling that yes and saying yes, enthusiastically
53:40
Speaker 1: shake your head no. Bea describe for everyone what they're
53:49
Speaker 1: feeling when they do that. What is that feeling of disalignment?
53:58
Speaker 1: When I've done this with people? And thank you so
54:01
Speaker 1: much for beautifully leading us through that. I love that.
54:03
Speaker 1: And gently open your eyes everyone, thank you. Um When
54:09
Speaker 1: they do they when they have the yes in their
54:11
Speaker 1: body and they're not even know it feels like a silliness,
54:15
Speaker 1: like it it's more like, oh, that's silly. Why would
54:17
Speaker 1: I say no when I want to say yes? It's
54:20
Speaker 1: kind of it's a little lighter than the energy of
54:22
Speaker 1: holding the no and saying yes. That feels heavier, That
54:26
Speaker 1: feels a little bit more harsh. And I tell people
54:31
Speaker 1: that's your ancestors, because what I don't want them to
54:37
Speaker 1: create too. I don't I'm trying to rewire this negative
54:40
Speaker 1: relationship with hard feelings in the body. If I label
54:45
Speaker 1: it anxiety, depression, trauma, then they're going to run from it.
54:49
Speaker 1: But if I say, what if that's your ancestors saying
54:51
Speaker 1: where are you going? Why are you saying guest to
54:54
Speaker 1: something you clearly don't want to do, then it's a relationship.
54:58
Speaker 1: Then it's loving, right, And so that healthy boundaries and
55:04
Speaker 1: what that is how to set those boundaries for yourself. Yeah,
55:08
Speaker 1: And that's how you work your relationship with with the
55:11
Speaker 1: hard things. That the hard things aren't things that we
55:14
Speaker 1: run from. Their things that are giving us signals too.
55:16
Speaker 1: They're telling us, just like Joyce as hot, you found
55:18
Speaker 1: the right spot, but we couldn't find the right spot
55:21
Speaker 1: if we didn't have that discomfort telling us this is
55:24
Speaker 1: not the right spot. Right, they're not opposites. They're working
55:28
Speaker 1: together to lead us where we should be. And so
55:31
Speaker 1: that joy is the finding that spot. But it takes
55:33
Speaker 1: a discomfort sometimes to move us and nudge us there.
55:37
Speaker 1: And if we if we judge that, if we have
55:39
Speaker 1: a judgment against what that feeling is, and we shut
55:42
Speaker 1: down and we deem it unsafe, then we will not
55:46
Speaker 1: be able to use it to move us to where
55:48
Speaker 1: we should be. And then we can start using joy
55:50
Speaker 1: as a metric. So now when we're not feeling joy,
55:53
Speaker 1: we know we're not in the right spot, right, and
55:57
Speaker 1: then we can decide moment by moment how to line
56:01
Speaker 1: ourselves up so that so and when I run into
56:04
Speaker 1: spaces that I've created in joy, but then I have
56:06
Speaker 1: a moment of discomfort, I'm like, well, wait a minute. First,
56:09
Speaker 1: let me check that I accidentally let white supremacy, capitalism
56:12
Speaker 1: or patriarchy in the room, because I might have it
56:14
Speaker 1: might have snuck in, right, So let me check for
56:17
Speaker 1: that first. The other thing is I may be limiting
56:21
Speaker 1: how I'm looking at a situation which is also a
56:24
Speaker 1: byproduct of white supremacy, capitalism and patriarchy. Right, I may
56:28
Speaker 1: be saying, oh, only these solutions are possible. So it's
56:30
Speaker 1: a call to my creativity. You know that that lack
56:33
Speaker 1: of joy means, oh, be more creative, make something up,
56:37
Speaker 1: try something new. All of those nudges are super helpful
56:41
Speaker 1: and if we use joy as a metric, we can
56:44
Speaker 1: build a life. And I promise you this that literally
56:48
Speaker 1: is joyful. And when it's not, it's not because we're
56:53
Speaker 1: doing something wrong. It's just information that our ancestors are
56:57
Speaker 1: bringing us to, not just towards the joy. That's incredible. Yeah.
57:01
Speaker 1: I hate to do this because I know I want
57:04
Speaker 1: to talk here the whole time. UM, but I so
57:07
Speaker 1: I haven't asked of you, but first, UM, please let
57:10
Speaker 1: everyone know how they can connect with you. Absolutely sure. UM.
57:13
Speaker 1: So my company is called Marley I O M A
57:17
Speaker 1: r l E y a y o ay oh means
57:20
Speaker 1: joy in uraba. So um that has information on the
57:24
Speaker 1: black or the brain. That is information on all the
57:26
Speaker 1: things are our company is working on. Um. I'm on
57:30
Speaker 1: Instagram at the amnia at the Black or the Brain
57:33
Speaker 1: and there's so many ads right um at Shaping the
57:35
Speaker 1: Shift podcast which you can catch up on the episode
57:38
Speaker 1: where we had Devvy on. If you like this, you
57:41
Speaker 1: can go list and that and get like a double
57:43
Speaker 1: dose like part one in part two. Um and so yeah,
57:46
Speaker 1: I'm super easily easy to access, and we'll drop all
57:49
Speaker 1: the links below in in the posting wherever you are
57:53
Speaker 1: catching this show. So as we end the show, I
57:56
Speaker 1: love to walk away with everyone having a little soul
58:00
Speaker 1: work so in attention that they can connect to uh
58:06
Speaker 1: an assignment maybe you know a journal imprompt or some
58:10
Speaker 1: tips but for the next week before we get to
58:12
Speaker 1: our next episode, the if you would share a little
58:16
Speaker 1: soul work that everyone can do to spend this next
58:20
Speaker 1: week if you do not connect yet fully to joy
58:25
Speaker 1: a little bit of homework of how the audience can
58:29
Speaker 1: really begin to taste it mm hmmm. Um. One, I
58:34
Speaker 1: would say, replay that meditation that Devi just led you through,
58:38
Speaker 1: because it's a great um way to get accustomed to
58:42
Speaker 1: what that feels like in your body. So once you've
58:46
Speaker 1: done that a couple of times and you're like, OK,
58:47
Speaker 1: I know that feeling. Catch those feelings throughout the day.
58:51
Speaker 1: Maybe you're about to wash dishes and the that you
58:53
Speaker 1: feel that feeling come up. So then you say when
58:56
Speaker 1: you feel the wait a minute, does this bring me joy?
59:00
Speaker 1: To do these dishes right now if not give yourself
59:03
Speaker 1: permission to not do those dishes. See how that feels, right?
59:07
Speaker 1: See what comes up with that? If you decide you
59:11
Speaker 1: want to push through the dishes, then that you have
59:13
Speaker 1: to do so finding a way to frame it with joy.
59:17
Speaker 1: Maybe you're saying, well, I'll wash the dishes even though
59:19
Speaker 1: I don't want to because I want to have a
59:21
Speaker 1: really great meal with my family later on today. And
59:23
Speaker 1: you tap into that joy, right um. But don't move
59:26
Speaker 1: forward until you've figured out a way to either frame
59:29
Speaker 1: it with joy or giving yourself permission to not do
59:33
Speaker 1: it at all, right um. And whenever you feel the
59:36
Speaker 1: little that's like you're key, like, oh I'm about to
59:40
Speaker 1: engage in something. I'm about to do it, I'm saying,
59:43
Speaker 1: guess when I want to say no? Right um? And
59:46
Speaker 1: practice asking well does this bring me joy? And how
59:49
Speaker 1: can I make it bring me joy? Or how can
59:51
Speaker 1: I just decide I don't want to do this right
59:53
Speaker 1: now because it would not bring me joy? And that
59:56
Speaker 1: is also an exercise and self authorization. A uh yeah,
1:00:01
Speaker 1: oh that's good. You guys really deepen into that soul
1:00:04
Speaker 1: work this week until we get to the next episode.
1:00:07
Speaker 1: Via thank you so much for joining My pleasure. Debbie.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: Thank you anytime you know, whenever you call, I'm running everyone.
1:00:17
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode
1:00:20
Speaker 1: of the show. And I'll catch you next week. I
1:00:22
Speaker 1: love you. Hey. Find me on social Let's connect at
1:00:29
Speaker 1: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my
1:00:32
Speaker 1: website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to
1:00:36
Speaker 1: the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget
1:00:40
Speaker 1: to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to
1:00:45
Speaker 1: a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I Heart
1:00:49
Speaker 1: Radio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple
1:00:52
Speaker 1: and Me Debbie Brown. For more podcast from My heart Radio,
1:00:56
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or We're
1:01:00
Speaker 1: ever you listen to your favorite shows.