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Gulf Coast communities and oil drilling: Who really pays the price for new offshore leases? · How To Protect The Ocean

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Today's episode is the third installation of talking about the US
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offshore oil and gas drilling plan.
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This is different than the other two that we've done because it really
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focuses on the Gulf of Mexico and the people around the Gulf of Mexico and
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how the oil industry has treated the people in the Gulf of Mexico area over
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the years, especially in Louisiana.
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We're gonna be talking to Scott.
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S. Of the Healthy Gulf organization and he is coming to us from
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Louisiana, born and raised.
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His grandfather used to drill for oil and has seen the damage that
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has been done and how promises weren't made by the oil industry.
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And we're gonna talk about why that's such an important part of.
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Speaking up and speaking out against this new leasing plan, not only
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from what's happened in the past, but what it can do in the future.
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We're gonna talk about that on today's episode of the How
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to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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Let's start the show.
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Hey everybody.
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Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator
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here to tell you what's happening with the Ocean, how you can speak up for
1:07
the Ocean, and what you can do to live for a better Ocean by taking action.
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Now on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about the US oil and gas
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drilling plan and the leasing permits that have been put out, pretty much
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covering over a billion acres of the us.
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Ocean, like what they manage within their exclusive economic zone.
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We're gonna be talking to Scott Ess.
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He is the community science director of Healthy Gulf that manages and looks
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after the Gulf of not America, of Mexico.
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He's been living in Louisiana and his grandfather even lived in
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Louisiana, grew up in Louisiana and drilled for oil in Louisiana.
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And he tells a story in this episode of how.
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His grandfather saw what had been done, like what they created, And
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then also how it was left and how it continues to be left, and we're
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gonna be really focusing here.
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I wanted to pay particular attention how he focuses of how the oil and
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gas industry are not taking care of things that they have done in the past.
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Oil wells that they've drilled.
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They're not decommissioning them.
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That means they're not shutting them down properly, but they want to drill for more.
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They want to get leases for more.
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They also talk about how some leasing strategies.
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Are not tied to drilling at all, but tied to borrowing more money.
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It's really interesting to talk about what is happening in the oil and gas
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industry in the Gulf of Mexico, but also to see what has happened to the people
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and how the people have been treated over the last number of decades that
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the oil and gas industry has been in Louisiana as well as the Gulf States.
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So we're gonna talk.
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All about that with Scott, and this is an ongoing, uh, series.
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I'm gonna be talking to other people hopefully in Alaska.
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I've got another piece that might be coming up with the Gulf States as well.
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It's all surrounding how the oil and gas industry affects not only the
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environment, but local communities.
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And this episode really brings it home.
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We talked to Joseph Gordon from Ocean.
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We talked to Pete Stauffer from the Surf Rider in the last two
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episodes, and now we're gonna be talking about the Gulf States.
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In this episode, it's gonna be a really important to listen.
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To how people have been treated by the oil and gas industry.
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You'll hear the big talking points about how it creates jobs
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and does it really create jobs.
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That's the big thing that we're gonna be talking about today, as well as
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how it's treated people in the past and how it's treated land in southern
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Louisiana in the past as well.
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We're gonna talk about that, all that today on this interview.
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Enjoy the interview with Scott Eustis of Healthy Golf, and I'll talk to you after.
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Oh, I just have one question before we start.
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Yeah.
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How do you pronounce your last name?
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Is it Eustis?
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Eustis.
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Perfect.
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Beauty.
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Alright, here we go.
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Hey Scott.
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Welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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Are you ready to talk about the Gulf of Mexico as well as this
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new offshore oil drilling plan?
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Yes, indeed.
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We're here in New Orleans ready to protect the Gulf and
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ask your listeners to join us.
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And pursuing a better economy for, uh, what's left of Louisiana.
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And, uh, even though we're always gonna be in the water, so join us.
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Love it, and stop in this, you could call it a plan.
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It ain't much of a plan because, uh, the oil industry absolutely
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leaves a lot out when they plan.
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Uh, you know, so yeah, totally.
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We're gonna talk about it.
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It's gonna be fun to, to talk about it, to get to, uh, to all the specifics
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of, of what's happening and what people should think about when they
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think about the people that live in and around the Gulf of Mexico.
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'cause I feel like sometimes it's underrepresented and, and we
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just think of it's oil and gas.
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But that's not the case at all, and we're gonna find out that out today.
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Um, but before we get into all of that fun stuff, uh, Scott, why don't you just
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let us know who you are and what you do.
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Yeah, Scott used to see him.
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I'm the Community Science Director at Healthy Golf.
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We're a 30-year-old plus organ environmental organization, uh,
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dedicated to collaborating and serve.
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Those people that love the Gulf of Mexico and want to see it
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restored to its natural splendor.
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The Gulf is an amazingly biodiverse Ocean.
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It's got a very gentle one Tie a day.
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You know, you don't have that in Maine, Seattle, you know, we've, it
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is a very gentle Ocean, and especially here in New Orleans, in Louisiana.
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But also in mobile.
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Uh uh, uh, also in Port Arthur, you have these great freshwater rivers
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that enter this gentle Ocean and make miles and miles of estuary that just.
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They do nothing but produce food Um, So it's really hard to be a vegetarian in New
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Orleans because the Ocean is just bringing the shrimp literally right to my doorstep.
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You know?
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Uh, the Ocean is just here, you know, mother Nature is just providing,
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and we'd really like to return.
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Gulf and its economy back to that maritime way that where it's oriented
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around hearth and home food and shelter.
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Uh, but we do have a long way to go.
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Uh, yeah,
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it seems like there's.
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It seems like there's a lot of, uh, activity in and around
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the Gulf or planned activity.
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I mean, there's, we know that there's a lot of, uh, oil and
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gas platforms already there.
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Yeah.
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Um, we know that the market for oil and gas has been up and down.
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Especially since 2014 when, when we had a big crash.
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Yeah.
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Uh, And so we're, we're gonna, we're gonna get into to all that because I
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feel like it's really, uh, it goes to show how, you know, the, the communities
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are treated in, in that, in that area.
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And, and, and I feel like, you know, a lot of the times we just
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don't get to know the culture.
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Of the, the, the Gulf States.
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Right.
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Because there is, there is a, a specific culture around that.
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And that's what I want to get into now.
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So Scott, you, uh, you know, grew up in, in New Orleans,
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you grew up in, in Louisiana.
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You, your grandfather grew up in there.
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Can you tell us a little bit about that family history and
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that connection to the Ocean?
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Um, no, just from the perspective of, of your family and maybe even
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the community that you grew up in.
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Right.
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I mean, Louisiana, we have all types.
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I, I'm a little bit Cajun a little bit coming from the East coast back in
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the day, generations and generations.
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But we all, uh, native folks were drawn to the water again, because
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this is where a lot of the food was.
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Uh, African-American folks have also contributed a rich culinary.
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If you come to New Orleans, you're eating food out of the Gulf and this
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wonderfully productive ecosystem.
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Uh, my family were accountants, engineers, and after World War ii, my
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granddad, uh, left forestry to drill.
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And of course he's drilling in Plaquemines and Terrebonne, two parishes, like local
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counties, uh, on the water, on the Gulf.
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And, um.
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Made a living, uh, drilling for golf oil company doesn't exist anymore.
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Uh, made good money.
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I, I think at that time, you know, post World War ii, the Gulf provided
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energy and it's like thinking about the way my granddad thought of oil.
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He thought of it as this gift of energy from Mother Earth that
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could ease pain and provide.
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Opportunities for the economy.
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That never happened before.
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And so there, there was this promise at some point of, of oil, um, to change,
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change the economy of Louisiana from the plantation economy that we had.
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I'm sad to say, uh, 50 years on that did not the promise.
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It was not fulfilled.
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And so today, um, especially after the price crashes in 2014 And then in 2020,
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And then we're looking at very low oil prices, uh, next year, you know, every
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time the value of oil dips companies cut and run from their workers and
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from their environmental obligations.
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So for about the past 10 years, especially.
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Healthy golf has opposed new leasing, not only for climate reasons and Hurricane
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Katrina taught us that we need to be very wary of climate change in Louisiana.
9:36
Mm-hmm.
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But just, you know, this government is not gonna listen.
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Oh, we should still comment to this government on climate change, but we
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really think that there should be no new leasing until all those wells.
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That were drilled in my grandfather's day get picked up because the oil, you know,
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you're commenting on a plan for leasing.
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But I gotta tell you, the oil companies do not plan, like other industries
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plan where they, they're gonna put a piece of infrastructure in the Ocean.
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But if you're a wind project off Virginia or New York, you have
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what's called a decommissioning plan.
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Whatever we build in the Ocean has a life cycle.
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And you know it, if you buy a car, you know that car.
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It's not gonna last forever.
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You know, and you have a, we need a plan in place from the day of sale.
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Um.
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If you're gonna put something in the Ocean, you need a plan to take it out.
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And what we have seen, especially since 2014, is that, uh, oil
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has been crashing and yeah, like they say, oil is cyclical, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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And, or boom and bust.
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Mm-hmm.
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Well, for Louisiana it is just been bust.
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Bust and we're looking in, if we're looking at $40 oil next
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year, it's gonna be a third bust.
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And what that means is companies like Chevron and Shell, uh, even bp, uh, all
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of their legacy wells that maybe are 50, maybe 80, a hundred years old sometimes,
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rather than hiring Louisiana oil workers.
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To fill those oil wells with cement and mm-hmm.
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Cut the steel out of the Ocean and recycle the steel on shore.
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Uh, rather than finishing the job that was promised, the
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industry continues to cut and run.
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So we, we have this, it is called decommissioning, right?
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You, yeah.
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You build the rig, you drill the well, that's commissioning and
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decommissioning as you take it out.
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Well.
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This industry doesn't take anything out of the Ocean.
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And as a result, we have hundreds of oil spills sitting
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there in Plaquemines Parish.
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Uh uh, that should have been taken out, 40 years, gone, but still
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sit there and they don't produce.
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Anything or they produce drops of oil, but then leak gallons.
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Mm-hmm.
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And, and what's more We have since 2014, we have seen nothing
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but layoffs, layoffs, layoffs.
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So since 2014 we've lost 20,000 jobs out of the oil field.
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Wow.
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Meanwhile, there's a lot of work to be done.
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Mm-hmm.
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By oil workers to fill these broken wells with cement.
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Take 'em outta the Ocean.
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'cause we got a lot of other business to attend to.
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Um, we at healthy golf want offshore wind.
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Um mm-hmm.
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But even if you're not fully on board with that, just the, the shrimping
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fleet or a poey fleet, uh, we need to remove these derelicts wells.
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So that a shrimp boat doesn't hit one in the middle of the night and
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have a calamity, um, or even just a shrimp boat drag in the wrong place.
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Um, shrimping is not as lucrative as it once was.
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If you're a shrimper and your net is fouled by an old pipeline, that's
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about 4,000 bucks just to start.
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And you may be, it might be a bad, it's a bad month if not a bad season.
13:16
Yeah.
13:17
So, I mean, we need to Yeah.
13:19
Make space for new economic opportunities in the Gulf because what
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you have is this industry that, uh.
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They're just, uh, they're not hiring engineers, they're just laying off
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workers And so we don't want any new leasing, And so they fix all the broken
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stuff they've left from the old leases.
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I mean, that makes sense.
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You know, like, like you said, that in every other industry they
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have to clean up their mess and, and this is a, this is a mess.
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As you mentioned, there's, there's oil wells that have not being
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used, not being used in production, and they continue to leak.
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It continues to mess up fisheries, it continues to mess up, uh,
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tourism because you're seeing all this oil come in in certain spots.
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Plus the local community, of course, is affected as well from
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a health perspective as well as an environmental, uh, perspective.
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Now, one thing you mentioned before we, uh, before we started
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recording, which I thought was interesting, it was this lease plan.
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And, and where this lease plan is going.
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Like this is a plan to lease out spots to eventually drill, right?
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But I think some people are like, oh, well they're gonna, once they buy these
14:31
leases or once they buy up these leases, they're gonna start drilling right away.
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That's not how it works.
14:35
Scott, can you explain how that works and when are we looking at when these
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leases would actually be drilled?
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If they're drilled?
14:44
Yeah.
14:45
We need people to comment to the government about.
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This, this lease plan, 'cause a, a lease today is almost a plan to
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drill 10, even 20 years from now.
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They can, they sit on that lease first.
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There's a lot of, it's the Ocean.
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It's not easy to get there.
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So, uh, sometimes they lease it out before they have the capital in the, you
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know, get a loan to do the survey work.
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Right.
15:12
They might drill a survey.
15:14
Well, 'cause these oil deposits.
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Are two, three miles underneath the mud.
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And that's all.
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Yeah.
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If you're drilling through a mile of Ocean on top of that.
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So these are incredibly complex, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, operations.
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They're incredibly expensive.
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Um, and.
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Since 2014 and fracking, it's just been so much easier for the oil companies
15:44
to hire trucks rather than boats.
15:47
Right?
15:47
Right.
15:47
So it's still, uh, to this day, it's much a bigger return on investment
15:53
for them to hire trucks and frack in West Texas or North Dakota than
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it is to make a long-term plan to drill for oil deposits in the Ocean.
16:05
So what that means is.
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A lot of your smaller operators, uh, won't even be bidding.
16:12
Mm-hmm.
16:12
It means is, um.
16:15
You see the lease sail.
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The lease sail is every speck of Ocean we got.
16:19
And that's, yeah.
16:21
Kind of offensive 'cause it's, you know, we have great coral reefs in places.
16:27
Mm-hmm.
16:27
In some places of the gulf.
16:28
In other places we have sand resources.
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Mm-hmm.
16:31
That we would like to utilize for coastal and ecosystem restoration.
16:36
We have fairways, we have places that will be good for wind power.
16:40
So when you see these plans drop and they considered no one and nobody, and they
16:46
just let oil industry take whatever they want, that I would, that's not a plan.
16:52
So, uh, Yeah.
16:54
Yeah.
16:54
Uh, wait.
16:54
I, and I think, uh.
16:56
When, for example, when the wind power leasing happened in the Gulf
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during the last administration, they purposely excluded about 14
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categories of other activities.
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For one, they didn't lease wind power close to shore, let's just
17:11
say, well, let's just move it away from people in general.
17:14
Mm-hmm.
17:16
Two.
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Uh, they excluded.
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Shrimping areas.
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They looked at something called AIS, which tracks the larger fishing vessels, and
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they say, oh, where are people shrimping?
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Let's not even consider leasing those areas for wind.
17:32
Mm-hmm.
17:33
They did other things like we have an endangered whale.
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There may only be 30 to 40 uh, rices whales in the Gulf.
17:42
Mm-hmm.
17:42
It's a whale.
17:43
It's like a half size blue whale.
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A rl.
17:46
Right.
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A filter feeder.
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An amazing animal that we want to thrive and Prosple and we know we need to exclude
17:57
a certain areas of bottom upwelling where that the Ri Rices whale feeds from.
18:04
We need to exclude those areas from oil activity.
18:08
If we want that species to not go extinct.
18:11
And the wind Yeah, the wind power.
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People are like, yeah, we don't, we don't need to go there.
18:16
Um, and, but when they lease for oil, they just lease everything.
18:23
I, I think what you see since 2014 too, these are almost all single
18:28
bid leases almost exclusively.
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And you know, so you know that these leases are contracts.
18:37
Between the United States and the oil companies.
18:41
We're just selling the farm for pennies.
18:43
You know, we want the United States to get the most value out of it.
18:47
If they're gonna make so much money, what do we see from it?
18:51
You know?
18:51
And we're really, yeah.
18:52
When we, when we lease single bid, uh, we are getting the bottom, uh, of the barrel.
18:58
We're not getting a good deal.
19:00
Uh, the other thing mm-hmm.
19:02
Is that.
19:04
Oil is, you may have heard it in seventh grade.
19:08
It's a non-renewable resource.
19:10
So what really?
19:12
Another dynamic that's gone on really since 2008.
19:16
Uh, wait.
19:17
It's run out y'all.
19:19
We've been drilling in the Gulf for a hundred years, and especially these wells.
19:25
Some of these wells were old when my grandfather was working on 'em.
19:29
Uh, so it really, you know, in the industry.
19:32
So, oh, we'll have new technology.
19:33
We'll do this.
19:35
We'll pump CO2 down.
19:37
No you won't because Yeah.
19:39
Yeah.
19:40
Uh, it, it's, it's, it's, again, it's just if as long as we're fracking
19:46
in North Dakota, as long as we're fracking in West Texas, the value
19:50
proposition of hiring this giant boat crew, hiring geologists and divers and,
19:57
and environmental scientists to live on boats for months at a time mm-hmm.
20:02
To do this like.
20:04
These almost like space missions to find the oil.
20:07
Mm-hmm.
20:08
Uh, the economics only play out if you're an Exxon or Chevron,
20:13
and they only play out if you find super large deposits of oil.
20:21
And, and what that means is they need to go super deep, which is super dangerous.
20:29
Yeah.
20:29
Yeah.
20:29
And they need to drill.
20:30
Yeah.
20:31
Super deep under the earth and it's mm-hmm.
20:35
Literally hot as hell down there And so, mm-hmm.
20:39
Right now in the Gulf there haven't been many new jobs in drilling, but there has
20:45
been what they call 20 K plays way, way far out off of Green Canyon and beyond.
20:53
This is, these are 250 miles from the Louisiana border.
20:59
Very, very far, um, to go very, very deep, uh, to find what you call
21:06
20 K. And what is, what is 20 K?
21:09
Uh, I believe that's 20 K pounds of pressure.
21:12
These are areas that were leased.
21:13
They were leased in 2006.
21:16
Mm-hmm.
21:17
But when, uh, and they found, they surveyed it, they found oil in these super
21:22
deep plays that had a lot of big play.
21:26
In 2006, the oil industry did not have the technology to drill it because if
21:32
they had drilled these plays in 2006, the pressures would've been so high.
21:38
No human technology would've been able to contain the geyser of pollution
21:44
coming out from Mother Earth.
21:46
So what we see now, Chevron has said, oh, we finally hacked it.
21:52
We're gonna go super deep.
21:54
Super hot, super high pressure, but I think we should be, you
21:59
should be very concerned if you're off Florida or Alabama.
22:03
'cause it just means that it's, we're we're getting riskier and riskier.
22:10
Mm-hmm.
22:10
And riskier after we, we've already had the disaster of 2010 to tell us if any.
22:20
They'll say, oh, it'll never happen.
22:22
It's a low probability event.
22:24
Yeah.
22:24
But we've seen, we've already been through it and our
22:27
ecosystem still hasn't recovered.
22:29
Mm-hmm.
22:29
From 2010.
22:30
No, our, we've got 26 species of cean in the Gulf and the
22:35
rice is whale hasn't recovered.
22:37
Our bottle nose, dolphin population is not recovered.
22:41
The beaks.
22:42
D whale, none of our well species have recovered from.
22:47
The last deep water drilling disaster in 2010.
22:50
And what this lease sale proposes, um, is to go deeper and hotter into hell.
22:58
And, uh, and the other, and that's the reason why what's new about this
23:03
sale is for the first time they're gonna drill off the coast of Florida.
23:07
It's driven by these deeper plays that they could find.
23:13
But we know, uh.
23:17
We know that that's, that would be an even worse economic disaster because,
23:22
uh, healthy Gulf, we, we, we look at the economics when we comment on these
23:28
things, we look at the jobs and we have gotten the state of Mississippi
23:34
to ban drilling, uh, on its coast because the, the consequences to tourism
23:42
and to the coastal economy fishing.
23:44
Everything on the beach.
23:47
The cost of a drilling disaster off of Mississippi is not worth the benefits of
23:53
the oil, and that's to the Mississippi tourism economy, which, I mean, I love
23:57
vacationing on the coast of Mississippi, but it's not the national draw that,
24:03
uh, everyone knows it's Florida to be.
24:05
It's underrepresented.
24:07
Let's be honest.
24:07
We've been, I've been on the coast of Mississippi.
24:09
Those beaches are beautiful and people don't realize it.
24:13
It's like a hidden gem of the south.
24:15
You know, I don't think people realize how nice those beaches actually
24:18
are and it's good for the state.
24:20
It's a great place.
24:21
Yeah.
24:22
It's our little paradise.
24:24
But you know, it's not the big dollar that Florida is.
24:27
Right.
24:28
But still, right.
24:29
That humble dollar in Mississippi is enough for Mississippi.
24:33
Mm-hmm.
24:33
To say, no, we don't want the oil here.
24:36
Uh, yeah.
24:37
The, the benefit, so is that, is that regulation?
24:39
Yeah.
24:40
Is that regulation, uh, for Mississippi?
24:42
'cause it's a state.
24:43
Yeah.
24:43
Within the nine, it's in their water.
24:45
Nautical mile.
24:46
Yeah.
24:46
Yeah.
24:46
It's in their state water.
24:47
So, so they ran beyond that.
24:49
They can't, yeah.
24:50
Okay.
24:50
Okay.
24:51
So Mississippi running the numbers came up with, you know, the cost
24:56
of destroying the water, destroying the animals, and our food.
25:02
You know, a lot of oysters, a lot of shrimp O off from the city too.
25:05
Mm-hmm.
25:05
Mm-hmm.
25:05
Yeah.
25:06
It, it just doesn't, it's not worth the revenue from oil.
25:11
Uh, and, And so for, for us, for the first, this president banned
25:18
drilling off of Florida for that reason, first time death.
25:22
Yeah.
25:22
And Mr. Rubio, uh, you know, when he was senator, uh.
25:28
He also was part of a congressional ban of drilling off of Florida for that reason.
25:33
So now mm-hmm.
25:33
But these, it's only worth it to drill in the Gulf for these super
25:38
deep, super hot, super far places.
25:41
And that's why for the first time they're contemplating going, uh, off of Florida.
25:47
But we've learned nothing.
25:49
You know, I, it's, Yeah, it's true.
25:51
It's a very arbitrary decision by this government.
25:56
To decide to forget everything mm-hmm.
26:00
That we've learned since 2010 and to totally forget about what the industry
26:07
has done to Louisiana for generations.
26:10
And it's only if the government remains totally ignorant to the economics
26:17
that, that they could possibly get away with leasing this stuff.
26:20
So that's why we need people to comment on.
26:23
Yeah.
26:24
All of the costs.
26:26
The industry brings to the golf when it drills Well, and let's be honest too, like
26:31
you've mentioned it a, a couple of times where this high pressure, deep, deep,
26:37
uh, sort of, it's an experiment really.
26:40
They say they can do it, but they've never done it before.
26:43
So it's really the first time.
26:45
And I remember when the BP oil spill happened.
26:49
The deep water horizon happened.
26:50
They said, oh yeah, well, you know, we're not used to deep going that deep, right?
26:54
And so we had trouble capping it because it was so deep, and now they want to go
26:58
deeper where there's more pressure, where it's gonna be hotter water coming out.
27:04
It makes no sense.
27:05
Like you said, it's like they're ignoring the pass and a recent pass.
27:09
It's not as if it's like 50 years ago, right?
27:11
This was only 15 years ago.
27:13
And so the fact that they want to go deeper and it's really
27:15
the first time they're doing it.
27:17
No, no, we got it.
27:18
We've ha we've hacked the way of doing it.
27:19
It doesn't mean they've got it.
27:22
You know what I mean?
27:22
It doesn't mean they've got it.
27:23
And in the middle of this, BP is laying off engineers in Houston.
27:28
So it's one thing if you say, Hey, you know what, we're gonna try something new.
27:33
You know what?
27:34
We're gonna hire up and we've got 20 new smart guys to help us
27:39
figure it out if something goes wrong, we are doing the opposite.
27:41
BP is laying off thousands of workers outta Houston.
27:45
We are, they're outsourcing engineering.
27:49
A lot of things can be done remotely or they can argue that they can,
27:54
I don't, I have my doubts right, but we're seeing of course, so
27:57
we don't wanna increase the risk.
28:01
While we're getting rid of the human element that could fix problems, it's a
28:05
total recipe for a disaster for the Gulf.
28:09
Mm-hmm.
28:09
Um, and really, uh, the argument they'll make in court is that this is jobs
28:17
and it's so thin gruel at this point.
28:19
Uh, they'll announce, uh, we're laying off 5,000 people from the
28:24
Gulf, And then next month it's like, well, we gotta have this lease sale.
28:28
For jobs.
28:29
It's like, yeah, what?
28:31
Or they'll blame me.
28:32
Like, so I've been blamed personally as an environmentalist.
28:35
Like, Scott, you're, you're stopping jobs from coming to the Gulf.
28:39
It's like, what are you talking about?
28:41
You know, Chevron and PP control who is employed and
28:45
they have done a terrible thing.
28:48
So this lease sale is almost like our one point of leverage to say
28:53
you don't get to start new business.
28:55
Yeah, until you handle all your old business, you know, so we say no way.
29:01
Absolutely.
29:02
I completely agree with that, and I think that's a big myth within the oil and gas
29:06
industry is that it provides local jobs.
29:08
At one point it did provide local jobs, but the way they treat it, and especially
29:13
with the way oil in the last 15 years has gone down, up and down, up and down
29:20
so quickly and companies are ready to.
29:23
Just, you know, cut their ties and leave, as you mentioned.
29:27
Right.
29:27
And just lay off more and more people.
29:30
A lot, you know, leaving, you know, oil wells open and not, not fixing them up.
29:36
It can be, it, it just, it kind of just destroys that community and
29:40
takes them away from what they used to be doing, which was fishing.
29:44
Yeah.
29:44
And tourism and all these other, and just living off the land and enjoying
29:48
the land and enjoying what they were.
29:50
One thing, Scott, I, I wanted to let you know, I, I didn't tell you this before.
29:53
I did tell you I worked for lumcon, uh, about 20 years ago, 25 years ago now.
29:57
Wow.
29:57
I'm old, uh, 25 years ago.
30:00
Um, but then I went back in 2018, uh, I was invited back as part of a group
30:07
of, of science communicators that went back to lumcon, the executive
30:11
director at the time, Craig McLean, wanted to put on what he called,
30:15
uh, what did he call it, oceans.
30:19
Well, maybe it was 22 Ocean.
30:20
2020. No, it was 2018.
30:21
It was Ocean's, ocean's 2018.
30:24
And it was, it was like this.
30:26
He, he didn't tell us what we were going down there for, but he did tell us that
30:30
we're gonna have a topic and we're going to explain and just kind of take over
30:34
the narrative of that particular topic.
30:37
And so it was a big reveal.
30:38
When we got down there.
30:39
There was probably about 30 or 40 of us.
30:42
Right?
30:42
Yeah.
30:42
And the topic was.
30:44
Southern Louisiana Yeah.
30:46
Yeah.
30:46
And what has happened to southern Louisiana over the
30:49
past like 30 to 60 years?
30:52
Yeah.
30:52
And one of the things that I learned that I did not know was the
30:57
land there in southern Louisiana.
31:00
Whether it was, uh, owned by, you know, occasions or it was owned by
31:05
Louisianians and, and, but also, you know, indigenous or native peoples and things.
31:11
We spoke to some indigenous people there.
31:14
Yeah.
31:14
And they were saying that the land has been cut through so many times by boats
31:18
and by oil companies who just cut through that land that like, it got to a point
31:24
where like the grave sites, like their cultural grave sites would like come up.
31:30
Like, you know, graves would be up and I like just cut through and,
31:35
and they lost land because of it.
31:36
And a lot of people were losing land because that land kept getting
31:39
destroyed through those cut throughs.
31:42
Yes.
31:43
It seems as the, the, the oil and gas industry has just continually
31:47
taken and taken and taken from people in southern Louisiana as well as
31:53
the Gulf States in, in other cases and just hasn't really given back.
31:58
What they, what they have taken in no way, way, and the amounts they've taken.
32:01
And that's why, in no way.
32:02
So, uh, that is why, uh, Plaquemines Parish, one of the coastal local
32:09
governments, a county in the Gulf south of New Orleans, uh, as well as many other
32:16
coastal parishes, uh, sued Chevron, bp, shell, all of them, they sued the company.
32:24
My, uh, my grandfather worked for.
32:26
But I, and to put the land back, I was raised, Yeah, I, when I was
32:32
raised, um, And then in the nineties to date myself, you know my, mm-hmm.
32:38
My grandfather was excited 'cause when he drilled in the seventies, in the eighties,
32:44
he watched those cut throughs happen.
32:46
He watched the land disintegrate, start to disintegrate, and
32:50
we're very disintegrated now.
32:53
He knew it was wrong, even though, hey, I wouldn't have this grandkid
32:59
without that salary, but also for sure what's gonna be left for him.
33:03
He was excited that I had an environmental mind and he, those,
33:08
these new laws were being passed in the nineties in the state of Louisiana
33:12
to force oil companies to restore it.
33:14
So he is like, Scott, my boy, go to school for ecology.
33:18
Come back and I know exactly what needs to res be restored.
33:23
Love it.
33:23
Because I was out there doing it.
33:25
I love it.
33:25
So I think, you know, there's a lot of people who worked in the oil industry
33:30
that have watched the industry fall short on its promises, and that's
33:35
why in 2018, Plaquemines Parish engaged in 21 lawsuits against these
33:42
same oil companies that are leasing.
33:45
And recently they secured for one oil field, one oil field.
33:49
Black Women's Parish secured a $750 million settlement, um,
33:55
from Chevron and other companies.
33:59
This is a state law and it's only the damages after 1980.
34:05
Uh, however, Chevron is appealing to the United States Supreme Court right now.
34:11
Because that was one oil field.
34:13
Blackman's had 20 other lawsuits like it.
34:17
And really the damage to our coast is in the tens of billions of dollars.
34:24
Um, which should tell you the value of restoring it is in the
34:28
a hundred billion dollars range.
34:30
I, I think we have a very successful coastal restoration program in Louisiana.
34:37
After bp, it got, you know, it's a horrible ecological crisis.
34:42
But Louisiana for what we are, we don't have the greatest
34:46
reputation on handling our money.
34:48
But I think the cultural program has been a beacon of transparency
34:53
and accountability and has really, uh, built back barrier islands, um,
34:59
with that BP money and I can't tell.
35:03
It's amazing to see.
35:06
Tens of thousands of migrating birds using those islands now.
35:10
Oh.
35:10
That if we had not had that, that lawsuit, settlement money.
35:14
Yeah.
35:14
You know, we wouldn't have the animals.
35:16
So I, Louisiana is a dramatic place with a lot of loss.
35:21
And I've also seen since 2010, the eco, it's not the, the
35:26
estuary is not the rainforest.
35:28
You know, it, it is an ecosystem that.
35:31
We, we can, uh, put it back to function.
35:36
Uh, not completely, not perfect, but we, it's amazing to see, um, what
35:44
the restoration program has done.
35:47
And it's amazing also to see a place like Plaquemines Parish, very pro oil and gas.
35:55
But you know what?
35:56
No one knows how dumb this industry is, like the workers do.
36:03
So you really think about that lawsuit as the oil workers suing to pry the
36:11
money out of the big bosses and Um, So.
36:16
That's on the state government side.
36:19
The Native Americans, of course, we have climate change and that's
36:22
a, another, a harder road to hoe.
36:25
But the Native American environmental movement in Louisiana has, they've
36:30
petitioned the UN that this negligence of these cut throughs, negligence
36:35
of these oil canals, negligence, and the canals are still there.
36:39
'cause these wells are still there from 1930.
36:42
Yeah.
36:43
Uh, so, you know.
36:45
It's, it's, it's a dereliction of duty.
36:48
Uh, and you know who can fix it to begin with is oil workers.
36:53
We need the companies part of these settlements, that seven $50 million
36:59
that's gonna go toward hiring oil workers to take care of those wells from 1940.
37:07
Fill them with cement, cut the steel below the mud line.
37:12
Restore the vegetation at the surface so we can have our golden meadow
37:17
once again, we can have our solar powered fish farm to where it was.
37:23
Maybe we can't go back to how beautiful it was in the sixties, but Right.
37:28
Hey, we can make a functional and beautiful place.
37:33
So I think.
37:35
That's the context that actually, if the oil industry says, oh, we gotta do it for
37:41
jobs, there are 10 times the amount of oil workers jobs to be had per, you know,
37:49
dollar for dollar in decommissioning.
37:51
Mm-hmm.
37:52
In, in plugging, decommission all these old wells full of
37:55
cement And then taking them out.
37:59
Of the marshes so we can heal the marshes.
38:01
Yeah.
38:02
Again, so it's not about jobs.
38:03
It's hell not about jobs, and it's like this oil dominance, energy dominance.
38:10
What is that?
38:11
You know?
38:15
I don't know, man.
38:16
Our, you know, I love the United States forever.
38:19
Uh, it's my country.
38:21
But if we're trying to sell people oil, we don't have the best reputation
38:26
right now for being a good salesman.
38:30
Is that, if that's the idea that what we need Yeah.
38:33
To oil to sell to other countries so we can influence them.
38:39
I, I don't know if that's really where the world is at right
38:42
now, you know, I think Right.
38:43
What?
38:44
Brazil, they have their own oil, uh, who's gonna buy oil from us?
38:48
I mean, yeah.
38:50
Saudi Arabia has so much oil, and again, you talk about it's cheap to drive
38:55
a truck rather than to rent a boat.
38:57
Well, in Saudi Arabia, they just push a button, you know, they Yeah.
39:00
Yeah.
39:01
And so, I mean, and I think the oil industry is really scared.
39:08
They, all of these assets, these leases, they'll lease the Ocean And then they'll
39:16
go get a loan on that from the bank.
39:18
Right?
39:19
And they've been doing that for a generation, they're
39:21
doing that for generations.
39:23
So we have a lot of existing leases in the Gulf that industry has never touched.
39:30
And so you say, well, why don't you drill that first before drilling new ones.
39:34
Yeah.
39:35
Yeah.
39:35
Um, it's, I, you know, it's, it's because some of those leases seem to
39:40
serve as mere financial assets that they can tell the bank, oh no, that, that,
39:46
that's money in the future that we have.
39:49
Yeah, the lease, uh, seems like the game is, but here you go.
39:53
They get that loan And then they spend it.
39:55
So now what do they have debt?
39:56
Mm-hmm.
39:57
Yeah.
39:58
So I think you see the industry is hungry to.
40:02
You know, they gotta run really fast to stay in place or their
40:06
debt is gonna catch up with them.
40:08
Um mm-hmm.
40:09
Especially if the oil price crashes again, I think when these price
40:15
crashes happen, all this, yeah.
40:17
The whole house of cards comes tumbling down And then they look for where to cut.
40:24
They look on who to fire.
40:26
They look for which environmental projects to just jettison.
40:31
And it, it's, sorry to say, but the industry, uh, has just been bust and
40:39
bust and bust for those of us in the Gulf to where, uh, we don't think
40:47
that they're chasing solutions to their debt problem rather than, Yeah.
40:53
Instead of actually trying to, yeah, there are, we have solar, we have wind.
40:58
There are so much better ways to produce energy for the domestic and international
41:04
market than drilling for oil.
41:06
What we have is an industry that's kind of desperate and desperate to keep
41:12
that, uh, their debts from becoming due.
41:16
Yeah, so that's also really what's driving.
41:21
You'll see leases that are sold for cheap by the federal government to these
41:25
companies that will never be drilled.
41:28
Because they just serve this far off as tokens in this weird financial game.
41:35
So, you know, why are we even here?
41:37
Mm-hmm.
41:37
It's 2025.
41:39
Mm-hmm.
41:40
We need to pick up the trash.
41:43
That Chevron left in 1940.
41:46
Yeah.
41:47
And I think we had healthy golf and a group called True Transition have
41:52
produced some reports on this, uh, of how many, that's really where the jobs are.
41:57
That's really where economic opportunity lies for coastal Louisiana.
42:02
'cause if we can pull these old pipelines out, hire oil workers to
42:08
fill the old wells with cement and take 'em out of the marsh, we can, we can
42:13
really take our ecosystem restoration to the next level, which is what we
42:19
have to do to survive the rising sea.
42:23
Yeah, agreed.
42:25
I mean, you make a very good point on all of these.
42:28
On all these cases, uh, you know, there's public comment is, is
42:32
open for people to take action.
42:34
Now, you know, you, you've talked a lot about what you, what you need
42:38
people to do, especially in the Gulf States, you know, people care about,
42:43
about their land, they care about their coastline, they care about their water.
42:47
They care about going out and enjoying nature.
42:50
You know, a lot of people when they go to do public comment, they
42:53
don't really know what to say.
42:54
Yeah.
42:55
What would you recommend that they say that would make it more
42:58
impactful and and influence decision makers on whether they should go
43:04
ahead and continue with this plan?
43:06
Well, I would say there's a lot of reasons we wanna protect the rice
43:10
as whale from global extinction.
43:13
We mentioned the plight of indigenous peoples of Louisiana.
43:19
How they have petitioned the UN on forced displacement, so you shouldn't lease.
43:24
Mm-hmm.
43:25
Because it's this promise to flood their homes and cemeteries and
43:30
put them under the sea forever.
43:32
Um, if that moves, you comment on that.
43:34
If I, if it's economics, I would say no leases for anybody behind
43:41
on their decommissioning duties.
43:43
And I gotta tell you, that includes Chevron.
43:45
That include, that's everybody.
43:47
There's a lot of old wells that are leaking oil into the Gulf
43:53
that Chevron needs to hire us.
43:55
Hire Louisiana boats.
43:57
Mm-hmm.
43:57
Hire Louisiana workers to plug before we give them permission to rip and
44:02
run on a new part of the Ocean.
44:04
I think that's, I think that's maybe our piece that you won't hear from Floridians
44:09
or, or other good people of the Gulf is.
44:12
Don't lease anything.
44:14
Don't give 'em another inch of our Ocean before they've cleaned up their old junk.
44:21
Um, yeah.
44:23
Uh, because again, and that's where the jobs are, that's where the future is.
44:29
And, uh, that's what we've, we're, we're here to say, um,
44:34
there's more boats right now.
44:36
More Louisiana boats.
44:38
Well, I shouldn't say that.
44:39
Let's say this.
44:41
There are just as many Louisiana offshore service vessels building offshore wind
44:49
off Virginia and New York right now.
44:52
Mm-hmm.
44:52
Than there are, you know, developing and drilling oil in the Gulf of Mexico.
44:57
We, we have so many people outta work.
45:01
I think we were really looking forward to offshore wind as the
45:04
future of energy and to bring.
45:08
Our maritime industry back.
45:11
Um mm-hmm.
45:12
So it's absurd that we're still playing this game, drilling holes to hell.
45:19
We could be doing.
45:20
Yeah.
45:21
So many more smarter, uh, economic, uh, we could have, we could, we're still drilling
45:29
holes to hell when we know we could have a much smarter and sustainable economy.
45:37
Absolutely.
45:38
Very well said.
45:39
Uh, Scott, this has been so great to have you on the podcast.
45:44
Uh, it's, it's inspiring.
45:45
I'll tell you, I've never heard of anybody speak more passionately
45:49
about the Gulf of Mexico in my life, and I do appreciate that.
45:53
I think it goes to show you're not the only one.
45:56
I know there are a. People in, in south, in, in, you know, the Gulf States in
46:00
the southern US who love the Gulf of Mexico, who visit there every year.
46:05
Yeah.
46:05
Enjoy their beaches, enjoy the water, who live off the land, live off the water.
46:09
And it's very important that we keep them in mind, that they speak up as
46:13
well as others to support them in making sure that their livelihoods
46:17
and their lifestyles are protected.
46:19
And I think that's an extremely great point.
46:21
You've made those points clear in what, why.
46:24
We need to do and what the oil companies need to do by cleaning
46:27
up their stuff before they even go on to doing something new.
46:30
And I do appreciate that.
46:31
I hope the administration hears that from people, not, not
46:35
only, but with, but yourself.
46:36
Like that you're talking about it, but everybody else who understands
46:39
this now and how important it is, Scott, this has been.
46:43
A huge pleasure to get to know you, and a huge pleasure to have you on the podcast.
46:46
Love to have you back on to talk more about the golf 'cause that's
46:49
a special place in my heart.
46:51
Um, you know, since I've been working there, um, we'd love
46:53
to, to chat with you again.
46:55
Oh yeah.
46:56
Anytime.
46:57
Andrew, thanks so much for the time and thanks for everybody who's listening.
47:00
Thank you, Scott, for joining us on today's episode of the How
47:03
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
47:04
What a fantastic storyteller.
47:06
I used to work in the Gulf of Mexico and out stationed outta Louisiana at
47:11
Louisiana University's Marine Consortium.
47:12
It was a great place.
47:13
It was a lovely, wonderful place.
47:14
We actually talking just before we interviewed about how the sunset
47:18
and that marsh land is so beautiful.
47:21
And there's actually a live camera from lumcon.
47:23
I don't know if it's still up, but there was a live camera from LUMCON where you
47:25
can see the sunset and you can see how beautiful it is and how peaceful it is.
47:29
It's so, so wonderful.
47:31
Unfortunately, it's getting flooded right now 'cause the sea level rise.
47:34
It may not be there for very long in the next decade or so, but that's okay.
47:38
LUMCON will still survive their building, a new building in HOA and gonna be great.
47:42
But the one thing that I love is Scott really emboldens the passion that.
47:48
The people in the Gulf States have for the Gulf of Mexico, he talks about
47:53
how, you know it's a boating community.
47:54
Louisiana especially is a boating community.
47:56
It's a boating state.
47:57
People love to be on the Ocean.
47:59
They love to fish.
48:00
They love to just enjoy the weather.
48:02
They love to enjoy the water.
48:04
They want shrimpers.
48:05
They have crabbers, they hunt alligators And so forth.
48:08
They just live off the land and they love.
48:10
Nature.
48:10
They love fishing in their lakes.
48:12
They love just being around the water.
48:14
They love beaches, they love their beaches.
48:15
He talks a lot about being on a beach in Mississippi, which is very
48:18
undervalued in the tourism industry, but they do have beautiful beaches,
48:22
And so it's just amazing to see the passion around the way he speaks very
48:27
poetic and encapsulates the passion that people have for the Gulf of Mexico.
48:32
In the Gulf of Mexico states, and I just think it's such an important aspect
48:36
to how people see the Gulf of Mexico and how important it is to protect it.
48:41
Even, you know, the differences between some of the Gulf states, you have
48:44
Florida, who doesn't want drilling at all, but it's okay to do it in Louisiana.
48:48
It's very interesting to see how that happens.
48:50
So please keep an eye on that and look at how people are targeted
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and different states are targeted.
48:56
When this comes into play and we see people trying to get leases so that
49:00
they can drill potentially in 30 years down the road in making sure that
49:04
climate change just keeps happening and keeps happening and keeps happening.
49:07
These leases are not gonna be drilling by the next year or by the next two years.
49:12
It's gonna take a long time.
49:13
And just as Scott said, it's gonna take 20, 30 years before
49:15
these things are even tapped.
49:17
And what they need to do is look after the wells that haven't.
49:20
Been decommissioned first, and there's a lot of jobs within that.
49:23
So how about we worry about that before we worry about drilling new holes?
49:26
There should be an essence or just a hint of responsibility by these oil
49:30
and gas companies, but the government allows them to get away with it.
49:32
Not just the government, this administration, but other
49:34
administrations as well.
49:35
It's everybody.
49:36
And so we need to ensure that doesn't happen anymore and
49:38
that we protect the people.
49:40
Protect the environment and the people who depend on that
49:42
environment of the Gulf State.
49:44
So I think this was a great episode to really focus in on the people and why
49:48
the Gulf of Mexico matters so, so much.
49:51
So this is gonna be an interesting episode.
49:53
I hope you enjoyed it.
49:54
I'd love to hear your comments down below.
49:55
If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're listening to this on your
49:57
favorite podcast app, whether it be Spotify, apple Podcast, Amazon Music,
50:01
whether you're listening to this on my website, speak up for blue.com.
50:04
Go to speak up for blue.com/feedback.
50:07
Let me know what you think.
50:08
You can leave a voice message.
50:09
Or you can just type in your message, whatever you'd like
50:12
to say about the episode.
50:13
And also you can follow us at Speak up for blue.com/follow on any of those podcasts.
50:18
So I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the
50:21
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
50:23
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True North Strong and Free.
50:25
Have a great day.
50:26
We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.