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From PCR to Portfolio: Christine Aylward is Funding Life Sciences · Get Real with Jim Weiss

0:00
Speaker 1: Christine and you go way back to the beginning.
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Speaker 2: We were early twenties, both hustling. She was at Roche,
0:06
Speaker 2: I was at Genen Tech. But I think, you know,
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Speaker 2: we just related. She was a gal from a Jersey
0:12
Speaker 2: shore town and I was from you know, a small town,
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Speaker 2: and we just kind of had enough common roots that
0:19
Speaker 2: we found each other. And Christine is really the kind
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Speaker 2: of person that despite obstacles, she's one of these people
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Speaker 2: who always moves forward. I think she's inspirational, aspirational, so
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Speaker 2: I think it's a refreshing type of conversation. I think
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Speaker 2: she just always thought she could do it, so she
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Speaker 2: does it and keeps.
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Speaker 1: Doing it, keeps trying new things.
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Speaker 3: Is tried a lot of different ventures.
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Speaker 1: So what should speaking of ventures, what should our audience
0:46
Speaker 1: know about Magnetic Ventures?
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Speaker 3: Her company?
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Speaker 2: Well, Magnetic which is I'm an advisor to Magnetic. It's
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Speaker 2: you know, a completely i think, pioneering venture firm that's
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Speaker 2: focused on the cross fertilization of tech science, biotech, you know,
1:03
Speaker 2: to help really advance the industry. I think what's very
1:07
Speaker 2: unique about a lot of the businesses that Christine is
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Speaker 2: nurtured through this through her investing and you know, hands
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Speaker 2: on support is to help the industry do what they're
1:17
Speaker 2: trying to do, which is to leverage technology and new
1:20
Speaker 2: approaches to make their businesses more efficient, which ultimately should
1:25
Speaker 2: make them more successful.
1:27
Speaker 1: One thing I want to also make sure we touched
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Speaker 1: on because it's exciting, is both you and her were
1:32
Speaker 1: so aligned on the fact that we need to reinvigorate
1:35
Speaker 1: our trust in pharma. It's effective and scientists need to
1:38
Speaker 1: be believed in and all these these drugs save people's
1:42
Speaker 1: lives and we can't forget that, which I think is
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Speaker 1: like such a getting real takeaway, right.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I think, look, pharmaceuticals, drugs, biotech. You know,
1:52
Speaker 2: everybody has an opinion, but here's what I've said all along.
1:56
Speaker 2: Everyone gets hit by the bouncing ball, and some time
1:58
Speaker 2: you're going to need this industry to help you. So
2:03
Speaker 2: the point is it's an industry that I think makes
2:07
Speaker 2: the United States different in the world. She made the
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Speaker 2: point that China is going to take away our dominance
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Speaker 2: in this and I don't worry about stuff like that.
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Speaker 2: It's like, the point is, are we doing the best
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Speaker 2: we can in this industry? And I think both of
2:23
Speaker 2: us lament a time when we were coming up in
2:26
Speaker 2: the business when it was really much more revered. I
2:29
Speaker 2: don't think people understood it as well. So I say
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Speaker 2: she's a positive force magnetics, a positive force in helping
2:36
Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical industry become better.
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Speaker 1: Agree, that's a mindrop All right, listen to Christine Allward
2:42
Speaker 1: and subscribe to us on YouTube.
2:47
Speaker 2: So great to talk to you. This is going to
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Speaker 2: be so much fun. Actually, it's like, you know, probably
2:52
Speaker 2: of all the ones I've ever done, and this is
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Speaker 2: not to date us, but I've probably known you the longest,
2:59
Speaker 2: over thirty years. We literally grew up together. It's kind
3:02
Speaker 2: of crazy. Oh true love the background. You look great.
3:06
Speaker 2: Look I like an origin story and we do go
3:09
Speaker 2: way back. Roache and ntech, RPR, Hardpoort names that don't
3:14
Speaker 2: exist anymore, or don't exist as independents in many cases.
3:18
Speaker 2: What do you think it'd be like to be coming
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Speaker 2: up and bio pharma now versus when we did?
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Speaker 3: Oh wow, great question. You know, it's interesting because when
3:27
Speaker 3: I started at Roche, it was very much you never left.
3:31
Speaker 3: Nobody left. The people that were there were lifetime people.
3:36
Speaker 3: And the only reason I was even open to leaving
3:39
Speaker 3: into coming out to Silicon Valley was when I was
3:41
Speaker 3: at Roach. They had a license for PCR and Setus
3:44
Speaker 3: owned it, and that was a startup company, and there
3:47
Speaker 3: were all these young entrepreneurs and scientists, and because we
3:50
Speaker 3: had a license, I would go out to Silicon Valley
3:53
Speaker 3: and meet with the scientists all the time. And I
3:56
Speaker 3: was there like a week every other month. And that's
3:58
Speaker 3: what gave me my disposure to the startup world while
4:02
Speaker 3: I was at Roche. But most people at Broche weren't
4:04
Speaker 3: doing that. They were in Nutley, they were in Basol,
4:07
Speaker 3: and they never left. When you were at Genepek and
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Speaker 3: I was at Roche, you also just got exposure to
4:13
Speaker 3: so much.
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Speaker 2: Well, I just wondered today, jobs, roles, titles, responsibilities, VC
4:19
Speaker 2: was really not a thing then in the same way
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Speaker 2: that it is now. They existed, but not in big numbers.
4:25
Speaker 2: You know, Analysts and banks seemed to be way more
4:29
Speaker 2: influential played a bigger role. Media that covered it. I
4:33
Speaker 2: think in many cases it was really different. I convinced
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Speaker 2: you to follow me to Silicon Valley, where you pulled
4:39
Speaker 2: me out of a job and into this up and
4:42
Speaker 2: coming startup ecosystem. You know, we worked out of your
4:45
Speaker 2: apartment building. It was so cool.
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Speaker 3: One of my most favorite memories of that was I
4:50
Speaker 3: had my one bedroom apartment on Polk Street and there
4:53
Speaker 3: was a studio opened up and I said, I'm grabbing
4:56
Speaker 3: the studio. This is going to eat my office. And
4:58
Speaker 3: then when I convinced you to leave Hart for it,
5:01
Speaker 3: I said, come office with me. So you came. But
5:04
Speaker 3: the funniest thing was there's no elevator in this building
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Speaker 3: and there you come with your massive whiteboard.
5:11
Speaker 2: Got out on the whiteboard or I can't think.
5:14
Speaker 3: I know, I know, this is so fun.
5:16
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good twenty fifth anniversary memory and moment
5:19
Speaker 2: for my business. What are you proud of and what
5:21
Speaker 2: would you redo from your journey?
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Speaker 3: One of the things I'm most proud of is the
5:28
Speaker 3: relationships I've built and the relationships that I've maintained, which
5:32
Speaker 3: I think is you and I are a lot like
5:34
Speaker 3: that in many ways. When I left Roche and moved
5:38
Speaker 3: well first with you to URPR but then moved out
5:41
Speaker 3: to California. When I would come into New York, I
5:43
Speaker 3: was the one that gathered everybody and would do dinners together.
5:47
Speaker 3: And those are relationships I have to this day, and
5:50
Speaker 3: so I would say I'm proud that I've been able
5:52
Speaker 3: to maintain amazing relationships with people. I have tremendous respect
5:57
Speaker 3: for who I've met professionally, and many of whom live
6:01
Speaker 3: turned into very close friends of mine.
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Speaker 2: You mentioned PCR, We've talked about it. Arguably the most
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Speaker 2: revolutionary technology at the intersection of tech and life sciences
6:13
Speaker 2: in the last century. Is that really what informed your
6:16
Speaker 2: focus for magnetic Obviously it's what we see today, but
6:19
Speaker 2: you came to this sooner than most in my view
6:23
Speaker 2: as a venture capitalist, for sure.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I would say that I was incredibly fortunate
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Speaker 3: Roche to work on PCR, and I got it because
6:31
Speaker 3: I was a low person on the totem pole and
6:33
Speaker 3: diagnostics was not sexy, and little did people know that
6:37
Speaker 3: Roch would acquire PCR and put worldwide headquarters in the
6:40
Speaker 3: United States. And so from a very young age, I
6:44
Speaker 3: was trained on how we think about foundational technologies and
6:49
Speaker 3: the value that they will create to the system, and
6:52
Speaker 3: how do we develop products around those And so that
6:55
Speaker 3: was my training and it was almost like innate to
6:58
Speaker 3: me to think about new technologies and to recognize them.
7:02
Speaker 3: And the other thing at Roche was we had a
7:04
Speaker 3: drug for HIV, and we had the most sophisticated diagnostic technology,
7:08
Speaker 3: but the two divisions weren't speaking to each other, and
7:11
Speaker 3: that made no sense to me, Like why aren't we
7:14
Speaker 3: talking to each other? And so I formed the first
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Speaker 3: cross collaboration team, which actually was what ultimately pulled me
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Speaker 3: into pharma and put me on the executive development path.
7:23
Speaker 3: While I was at Roche, was that thinking about we
7:26
Speaker 3: should do things differently and really a precursor to precision medicine.
7:30
Speaker 3: And you know here we are today precision medicine. So
7:33
Speaker 3: I'd say when I started Magnetic, I left my previous firm.
7:37
Speaker 3: I was planning to take a year off. I was
7:40
Speaker 3: interviewing with a bunch of companies, other firms, and I
7:42
Speaker 3: did a full landscape analysis of what I thought the
7:46
Speaker 3: future of the industry was, and I knew it to
7:48
Speaker 3: be technology, but I wanted to test the thesis in
7:52
Speaker 3: my mind, and so I did that and I put
7:54
Speaker 3: the steak in the sand, or we put it in,
7:57
Speaker 3: and said, I'm starting my own fund. Our industry is
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Speaker 3: going to go through a complete and utter transformation. It
8:04
Speaker 3: will be driven by technology, it will not be incremental.
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Speaker 3: It will impact everything from how we discover and develop drugs,
8:13
Speaker 3: to how we validate therapies, test and validate, to how
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Speaker 3: we deliver therapies, manufacture therapies, and so at that point
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Speaker 3: in time, I mean I can pull up my time
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Speaker 3: stamp on my first email ever sent that said those
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Speaker 3: very things.
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Speaker 2: Good, I'm glad I got in early. Well, look, we're
8:30
Speaker 2: not there yet even right, I mean, we're really just
8:32
Speaker 2: in the midst of this change. Companies still seem to
8:35
Speaker 2: be fumbling around and trying to figure it out. Not
8:38
Speaker 2: the tech companies but the companies they're selling to.
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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I would say a few things. I think,
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Speaker 3: you know, founding Magnetic twenty eighteen, really starting to invest
8:47
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, thinking through pain points in the industry and
8:50
Speaker 3: what technology was poised to help solve those pain points,
8:56
Speaker 3: and we invest across the ecosystem. We have great examples
8:58
Speaker 3: of where we really think we're having true tangible results today,
9:04
Speaker 3: I would say we still have an antiquated system healthcare
9:07
Speaker 3: in general. Just think about drug discovery alone, Like, if
9:11
Speaker 3: you spend two billion dollars developing a drug and you
9:14
Speaker 3: have a ninety percent fail rate, what other industry would
9:17
Speaker 3: that work in? None? And so I think we're getting
9:21
Speaker 3: to the point where we are using machine learning and AI.
9:26
Speaker 3: It's not in a silo. It is combined with all
9:29
Speaker 3: the O mixed technologies PCR underlying core as well as sequencing,
9:35
Speaker 3: and it's a lab and a loop. They're all working
9:37
Speaker 3: together to help us understand disease and ways we've never
9:41
Speaker 3: before understand biology. Biology is incredibly complex and identify novel
9:47
Speaker 3: targets quicker. But the other thing that is also really
9:51
Speaker 3: important to remember, it's not just about identifying new novel targets.
9:55
Speaker 3: It's about seeing what won't work. And the way we
9:58
Speaker 3: think about things is if a company of ours stops
10:01
Speaker 3: developing something because they've figured out that it won't work,
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Speaker 3: that's a win. That's a huge win for us.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think you know you did this with manufacturing
10:09
Speaker 2: and clinical trials. That's the stuff you're investing in. There
10:12
Speaker 2: are used disruptor companies that you've engaged with. How do
10:17
Speaker 2: you find them? How do you source?
10:19
Speaker 3: We find them a bunch of different ways. So the
10:20
Speaker 3: founder of Relation Therapeutics, I've known him for over sixteen years.
10:25
Speaker 3: He trusts me. He knows what you see is what
10:27
Speaker 3: you get, And we roll up our sleeves and do
10:29
Speaker 3: everything we can to support our portfolio companies. We get
10:32
Speaker 3: them from the first two deals out of fun three.
10:34
Speaker 3: One came from Nvidia, they reached out to me. The
10:37
Speaker 3: other came from Jay and Jay who's a customer of theirs,
10:40
Speaker 3: So we get them at the corporate level, and then
10:42
Speaker 3: from other vcs. Harodim our clinical trial and to end
10:46
Speaker 3: tech system came from Arch Bob Nelson. Bob had been
10:49
Speaker 3: working on this, We've been talking about it for a
10:51
Speaker 3: few years and then it all came together. And then
10:54
Speaker 3: the academic institutions. We've done a lot out of MIT Harvard.
10:58
Speaker 3: It's not just one area, it's across the board.
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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I think is interesting, and maybe the
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Speaker 2: thing that magnetic stands for that you're trying to find
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Speaker 2: the covalent or valin the things that go together, because
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Speaker 2: that's what I find generally is the issue in healthcare.
11:14
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people doing great stuff, but they're
11:17
Speaker 2: all doing somewhat redundant stuff and they're not always coming together.
11:21
Speaker 2: And that's another role of venture firm like yours can
11:25
Speaker 2: bring because you understand the ecosystem and all the interconnectedness
11:29
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, and that's unique. I would think, yeah.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I agree with you. I think that we
11:35
Speaker 3: live in a very complicated industry. It's not like selling
11:39
Speaker 3: consumer products or pet food. We have the regulatory environment
11:42
Speaker 3: that we have to deal with. We have patient advocacy groups,
11:45
Speaker 3: we have pairs. It is a complicated process and we've
11:49
Speaker 3: done it and understand it inside and out. I'll give
11:52
Speaker 3: you another great example is on the regulatory side. Why
11:55
Speaker 3: does it take a year and a half to compile
11:56
Speaker 3: an I and D? Why can it cost one point
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Speaker 3: five million? Amazing technology and by the way, ten percent fail,
12:02
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen percent fail simply due to not following
12:05
Speaker 3: proper protocol that the FDA provides. Now we invested in Weave,
12:10
Speaker 3: we co led the c financing and Weave we put
12:12
Speaker 3: them in pharmac services area. But they deal with process efficiencies,
12:16
Speaker 3: starting with regulatory They can compress the time to write
12:19
Speaker 3: and file an I and D by seventy percent and
12:22
Speaker 3: we know what that means in terms of getting drugs
12:24
Speaker 3: to patients quicker. Just think about that. In fact, last
12:27
Speaker 3: week we had great news the first I and D
12:30
Speaker 3: using their technology got approved by the FDET.
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Speaker 2: That's great, We're on the way, But that. Yes, I
12:35
Speaker 2: agree with you. It's unbelievable how long that can take.
12:39
Speaker 3: Right, And those are the things like we really think,
12:41
Speaker 3: what are the problems, let's find the most advanced technology
12:45
Speaker 3: solutions to solve those. On the clinical trial side, great
12:49
Speaker 3: example is we saw a lot of like one off
12:51
Speaker 3: tactical solutions that were fixing one tiny little problem within
12:55
Speaker 3: the clinical trial ecosystem that was never going to work.
12:59
Speaker 3: You had to come out of the gate with a
13:01
Speaker 3: large amount of cash to solve that problem. And that's
13:04
Speaker 3: Paradigm launched with like two hundred and three million, and
13:06
Speaker 3: they just recently bought flat Iron. They have signed up
13:10
Speaker 3: health systems across the world, and they're really also in
13:13
Speaker 3: addition about like pure data driven clinical trials health equity.
13:17
Speaker 3: And so right now clinical trials are focused primarily in
13:21
Speaker 3: major metropolitan cities white men. That doesn't reflect patient populations.
13:25
Speaker 3: We've got to fix that problem. And so I think
13:27
Speaker 3: we're going to look up in a few years from
13:28
Speaker 3: now and really see a dramatic change in clinical.
13:31
Speaker 2: Trials, the paradigm shift exactly. The guys are going to
13:35
Speaker 2: love me for that one, listen. I wild So I
13:38
Speaker 2: like the origin story. We didn't really get into it.
13:40
Speaker 2: We'll get to Jersey and all of that soon enough.
13:43
Speaker 2: But you built a media company with Natalie Portman called
13:47
Speaker 2: The Making of That's one of the first things we
13:50
Speaker 2: invested in together. But how does an experience like that
13:54
Speaker 2: in the movies help you transition into something magnetic? How
13:58
Speaker 2: do they relate?
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Speaker 3: I would say that I took a break from the
14:02
Speaker 3: biotech and pharmer world and started Magnetic. A few things.
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Speaker 3: One actually fully immersed me in the tech venture ecosystem
14:10
Speaker 3: because it fell into that category, and so that was
14:14
Speaker 3: a good thing, right because we're kind of overlapping now
14:18
Speaker 3: and those relationships are important, and many of the people
14:22
Speaker 3: I met are LPs and Magnetic. I would say a
14:25
Speaker 3: few things. One Night Company was too early for its time,
14:28
Speaker 3: and so we did premium quality, hour long video interviews
14:33
Speaker 3: with actors, directors, writers, producers, anyone involved in the process
14:37
Speaker 3: of making a movie. At that point in time, there
14:39
Speaker 3: was no streaming services, so there was no Netflix, Apple, Amazon, nothing,
14:45
Speaker 3: And the lesson there is it was before it's time,
14:48
Speaker 3: and as an investor, you can't fall too in love
14:51
Speaker 3: with the technology or the science because it could often
14:54
Speaker 3: be before its time. So that was a great lesson
14:56
Speaker 3: for me, and.
14:56
Speaker 2: I bet there's overlap there too.
14:58
Speaker 3: Right, Absolutely, we have to tell stories also of our
15:01
Speaker 3: portfolio companies, and so being thoughtful about how we helped
15:04
Speaker 3: guide our CEOs on how to tell stories and how
15:08
Speaker 3: to communicate what they're doing. Because even now, like so
15:12
Speaker 3: much as we're setting new categories of medicine and new
15:16
Speaker 3: categories of our sector, right, how do we define that?
15:19
Speaker 2: Well, from that, you pivoted, right, So you founded Magnetic,
15:22
Speaker 2: you said twenty eighteen, Yeah, with a thesis the future
15:26
Speaker 2: of life science was will be tech driven? Technology driven?
15:30
Speaker 2: Did that seem obvious in twenty eighteen or were you
15:34
Speaker 2: taking a beat? Were you potentially a little hoad of
15:37
Speaker 2: your time?
15:38
Speaker 3: I would say to me, it seemed obvious because we
15:41
Speaker 3: started to see a percolation of technology companies and they
15:46
Speaker 3: were early, but they were solving problems. And so I
15:50
Speaker 3: saw these companies and then I went back to my
15:54
Speaker 3: training around PCR and thinking about how we launched first
15:58
Speaker 3: the technology, because we wanted technology first, and then we
16:01
Speaker 3: launched the products. And we had to be really thoughtful
16:03
Speaker 3: about which products we launched first. And if you look
16:07
Speaker 3: at all the other industries and their adoption of technology.
16:12
Speaker 3: Our industry is always behind. Always. It's just we can
16:15
Speaker 3: look at every other industry when they've adopted new foundational technologies,
16:18
Speaker 3: and healthcare traditionally is behind. But at that point in time,
16:22
Speaker 3: it was my gut, it was my instinct that this
16:25
Speaker 3: was it for us. This is our very beginning. That's
16:28
Speaker 3: why I basically bet my career on it and started Magnetic.
16:31
Speaker 3: And I have to say, when I look at that
16:33
Speaker 3: Fund one portfolio, we have a company like Relation Therapeutics
16:37
Speaker 3: that is a mL drug discovery and development company. They
16:41
Speaker 3: did the largest ever deal for a seed stage company
16:44
Speaker 3: with glaxosmith Klein. Then on the heels of that they
16:47
Speaker 3: did a deal with novartis right. We have one hundred
16:51
Speaker 3: and sixty three million in upfront payments close to well
16:55
Speaker 3: over eight billion in biobox and then plus tiered royalties on.
17:00
Speaker 3: And that was a Fund one and Fund two portfolio company.
17:04
Speaker 3: But we took a big bet on that. We led
17:07
Speaker 3: the seed financing when it was an idea of what
17:10
Speaker 3: they wanted to do, a vision for the technology, and
17:13
Speaker 3: a team that we had high confidence in.
17:15
Speaker 2: Tell me what attracts you? Is it? And then how
17:18
Speaker 2: do you assess it? But how important is team?
17:22
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, team is so important. And if we're
17:25
Speaker 3: doing a AI drug discovery company, somebody on that team
17:29
Speaker 3: has to know how to discover drugs. So we want
17:31
Speaker 3: to see somebody who has discovered a drug and taking
17:33
Speaker 3: it all the way through product approval. For relation, David Roblin,
17:37
Speaker 3: who's the CEO, has taken eleven drugs from discovery through approval.
17:41
Speaker 3: And when you think about this world of like tech
17:44
Speaker 3: and science converging, scientists think differently than engineers, they talk
17:48
Speaker 3: differently than engineers. It's kind of like a very fine
17:51
Speaker 3: needle that you're threading as it relates to building a team,
17:54
Speaker 3: and you have to be incredibly thoughtful about that. And
17:57
Speaker 3: so we think along and hard about the team. We
17:59
Speaker 3: want to make sure that they're a great mL talent.
18:02
Speaker 3: So you want that whole side of it, but you
18:04
Speaker 3: really need leaders who know how to work with people
18:08
Speaker 3: who might talk differently, think differently, and how to merge
18:10
Speaker 3: them together. The team is absolutely so important. When I
18:14
Speaker 3: first start at Magnetic, I'd be getting pitches from like
18:17
Speaker 3: quant guys who want to do AI drug discovery and
18:21
Speaker 3: they're like, Oh, we're just going to take drugs off
18:22
Speaker 3: the shelf and repurpose them. And I'm like, well, who
18:25
Speaker 3: won your team? Has ever discovered and developed a drug? NB?
18:28
Speaker 3: Do you also recognize and understand that when a drug
18:30
Speaker 3: was on a shelf, somebody killed it. Farma's not super
18:33
Speaker 3: motivated to take it off the shelf. Somebody killed it.
18:35
Speaker 2: Right, There's examples, good examples, but not a lot of
18:38
Speaker 2: that happening. Yeah, So these are a lot of the
18:40
Speaker 2: successes any glaring mistakes that you want to highlight without
18:45
Speaker 2: naming names that you're learned from.
18:47
Speaker 3: We hat a company which we absolutely love that this
18:51
Speaker 3: cellular barcoding of myochondrial DNA and it helps with predicting
18:56
Speaker 3: cancer outcomes basically treatment options and how you tyrate treatment.
19:00
Speaker 3: And amazing technology out of Harvard in Boston's Children's Hospital.
19:04
Speaker 3: But they got caught up in the market cycle. It's
19:07
Speaker 3: a tools company technically, and they had a pilot was
19:12
Speaker 3: about to kick off with a top ten farm a
19:13
Speaker 3: company another one right behind it, and didn't have enough
19:18
Speaker 3: cash runway to get through it. And that was more
19:21
Speaker 3: of a market issue versus a company issue. That was
19:24
Speaker 3: a hard one, just because the technology is so important
19:28
Speaker 3: and impactful for patients. Now, what we were able to
19:32
Speaker 3: do was transfer the license back to Harvard, and so
19:36
Speaker 3: that still lives and at some point when the market
19:39
Speaker 3: sentiment might be a little bit different, that will evolve.
19:42
Speaker 3: And anything we're investing in, we are doing every single
19:45
Speaker 3: thing we possibly can to help that company succeed.
19:48
Speaker 2: Well, I remember when you first went and this isn't
19:50
Speaker 2: your first rodeo for venture, right, you were at Foresight.
19:53
Speaker 2: You brought me in there, and we had that big
19:56
Speaker 2: win with ten x Genomics. Maybe even some of that
19:59
Speaker 2: was ahead of it's time, But now, like you said,
20:02
Speaker 2: the industry is more ready and poised to adapt, adapt
20:06
Speaker 2: their process to incorporate big tech. So that's what I
20:11
Speaker 2: was going to jump into. So you say AI is
20:14
Speaker 2: just a sexy word, but it's really machine learning, which
20:17
Speaker 2: we you and I know because we've done this a
20:19
Speaker 2: while and didn't just come upon it. We will forever
20:22
Speaker 2: reckon with that. What do you mean by that? You
20:25
Speaker 2: know this idea that AI versus machine learning, and then
20:28
Speaker 2: you know, you hear things like agentic what the hell
20:31
Speaker 2: is all this stuff?
20:33
Speaker 1: Well?
20:33
Speaker 3: I think the problem is is that once AI became
20:36
Speaker 3: this term, everyone just throws it into their debt. And
20:39
Speaker 3: so I think what we all have to do is
20:43
Speaker 3: really see who's fundamentally using which technology tool, because what
20:49
Speaker 3: we don't want to do is get caught up in
20:51
Speaker 3: this hype bubble cycle, because we've all seen bubble cycles backfire. Right,
20:55
Speaker 3: even if you look at Weave, which is our GENAI
20:57
Speaker 3: company that deals with the regulatory process, this is not
21:00
Speaker 3: CHATCIBT off the shelf. That is not at all what
21:03
Speaker 3: this is. This is custom built, large language period right.
21:07
Speaker 2: Built on data. That's what people don't understand. It's built
21:10
Speaker 2: on actual data and information that informs the machine.
21:15
Speaker 3: Right exactly. So this is not off the shelf. This
21:19
Speaker 3: is custom built, and it's built by people who understand
21:22
Speaker 3: regulatory who understand drugs, new therapies, understand the process in
21:27
Speaker 3: which you have to go through to develop and get
21:30
Speaker 3: drugs through the regulatory process. So this is not off
21:33
Speaker 3: the shelf stuff in any way. You have to know
21:35
Speaker 3: what the right questions to ask.
21:37
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, it's all about the queries. Yeah right, Well,
21:40
Speaker 2: I mean the better your questions, the more you'll get
21:43
Speaker 2: out of the machine. I mean, it's pretty much what
21:45
Speaker 2: I can see and in communications, the firm Eyechair specializes
21:50
Speaker 2: in in many companies that I interact with, same thing.
21:53
Speaker 2: If you understand what the endgame and what the product's
21:56
Speaker 2: supposed to look like, then I think you can create
21:59
Speaker 2: real value out of this stuff.
22:00
Speaker 3: And you talk about team what I said earlier, like,
22:03
Speaker 3: if you are developing a drug, discovering and developing drugs
22:06
Speaker 3: using advanced technology, you better have done it before and
22:11
Speaker 3: understand biology and chemistry.
22:13
Speaker 2: A machine can't teach us that. No, so we'll still
22:16
Speaker 2: have med schools.
22:17
Speaker 3: Well, absolutely still have med schools. We absolutely still have doctors.
22:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, because you know somebody I thought at JP Morgan,
22:25
Speaker 2: who shall go nameless? But we both know said the
22:28
Speaker 2: robots are going to take over the doctor's jobs.
22:31
Speaker 3: There is no scenario where that will happen. And look,
22:35
Speaker 3: this is a longer conversation. I think that patients want doctors,
22:39
Speaker 3: Patients want someone to talk to, Patients want someone they trust.
22:43
Speaker 3: May they perhaps use AI to get more educated on
22:47
Speaker 3: a disease? Yes, But are we going to have a
22:49
Speaker 3: scenario where like a robot comes and listens to your heart?
22:53
Speaker 3: But I mean that the doctor's going away. The doctor's
22:56
Speaker 3: not going away, the nurses are not going away.
22:58
Speaker 2: I mean, wait, I thought this listens to our heart, right,
23:01
Speaker 2: So I don't know, like I think it's some combination,
23:03
Speaker 2: but you're right. I think you have to still come
23:05
Speaker 2: back to somebody who knows the data, who knows what
23:09
Speaker 2: the studies look like, because you know, you could jump
23:12
Speaker 2: on every trend on the planet right now.
23:15
Speaker 3: Who can support you emotionally, who can help you understand
23:18
Speaker 3: how to navigate care, who can help you understand advocacy groups.
23:21
Speaker 3: I mean, there's just a lot that goes into.
23:24
Speaker 2: So maybe a new kind of doctor.
23:25
Speaker 3: My hope is that doctor's lives get a little bit
23:28
Speaker 3: easier because they are so overloaded right now. Yeah, it's
23:32
Speaker 3: doctor's lives got easier. That would be a really great
23:35
Speaker 3: output of these technology tools, but they're not going away.
23:39
Speaker 2: Has the unprecedented and an unexpected pace of growth and
23:42
Speaker 2: acceleration for machine learning caught you by surprise or it
23:46
Speaker 2: just is the fulfillment.
23:48
Speaker 3: I think it's caught everyone by surprise.
23:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell me what you mean by that.
23:52
Speaker 3: I think no one could have predicted the rapid advancement
23:57
Speaker 3: of these technology tools, and if at Moore's law and
24:01
Speaker 3: how everything's just outpacing Moore's law because everything that came
24:05
Speaker 3: before it was at a slower pace. I don't think
24:08
Speaker 3: anyone fully predict it how quickly this technology would advance.
24:13
Speaker 2: We were talking about it, you know, at our off site.
24:16
Speaker 2: The fact that you could spend ten years and make
24:19
Speaker 2: two weeks of progress, and then in two weeks, you know,
24:23
Speaker 2: you can experience ten years of progress, and that feels
24:26
Speaker 2: like where we are?
24:27
Speaker 3: That is exactly where we are, and.
24:29
Speaker 2: Then how do you catch up to that? Or is
24:31
Speaker 2: there any can we just not worry about that? That's
24:33
Speaker 2: true anxiety provoking? Do we have to run at that?
24:37
Speaker 3: I wouldn't worry about it because the way that I
24:38
Speaker 3: think about it is great. The technology is advancing at
24:42
Speaker 3: an unprecedented rate. If that's going to help us improve
24:45
Speaker 3: patient care, amazing. If that's going to take us from
24:48
Speaker 3: this one size fits all way of practicing medicine to
24:52
Speaker 3: a more individualized approach to practicing medicine, great. If I
24:57
Speaker 3: can get a baseline of my help today and then
25:00
Speaker 3: figure out how it's changed a year from now, two
25:01
Speaker 3: years from now, three years from now by incorporating advanced
25:04
Speaker 3: technology tools, fantastic. So it doesn't scare me at all.
25:07
Speaker 3: In fact, it makes me just even more excited. About
25:10
Speaker 3: the opportunities ahead. Again, I think even though I still
25:12
Speaker 3: think we're in the very very early innings of all
25:15
Speaker 3: of them.
25:15
Speaker 2: Well, who knows where we are. It's like it's sometimes
25:18
Speaker 2: it's not worth predicting it. It's like you said, it's
25:21
Speaker 2: still unprecedented change. I guess this is a question that
25:25
Speaker 2: seems perfect and follow up. You've learned that recognizing technologies
25:29
Speaker 2: potential is one thing, but none of that matters if
25:32
Speaker 2: you can't turn it into an actionable product. You said
25:35
Speaker 2: that before. Why is that transition step so hard to
25:39
Speaker 2: go from the promise of it to make it real
25:42
Speaker 2: into a product.
25:43
Speaker 3: Well, let's use a great example for we've they have
25:47
Speaker 3: this amazing technology for I and D submissions and all
25:51
Speaker 3: regulatory submissions. You have to understand how to train it
25:53
Speaker 3: the right way. So you need to understand the industry.
25:55
Speaker 3: But then you have to figure out how to deploy it.
25:57
Speaker 3: So you have to understand how pharma works, Understand who
26:00
Speaker 3: the decision makers are. You have to understand how to
26:02
Speaker 3: navigate to the decision makers. You have to understand how
26:04
Speaker 3: to get approval. Those are the things that matter at
26:07
Speaker 3: the end of the day, because it doesn't matter how
26:10
Speaker 3: great a technology is if we can't get into the
26:12
Speaker 3: hands of people who are actually going to be using it.
26:14
Speaker 3: And so I think that's one great example of it.
26:17
Speaker 3: It's like, you have to understand our industry and how
26:21
Speaker 3: our industry works, and you have to understand how a
26:25
Speaker 3: new therapy goes from an idea all the way through
26:28
Speaker 3: the entire system to ultimately get to patients.
26:32
Speaker 2: I have lots of examples where tech guys have come
26:34
Speaker 2: not only to my business, but into pharma and they're
26:37
Speaker 2: struggling to figure out how to make what they do
26:39
Speaker 2: relevant to pharma. And I've said to them, look, you're
26:42
Speaker 2: coming in with a tool. That's all you got, and
26:45
Speaker 2: and many times farma can look at that, take something
26:48
Speaker 2: off the shelf and adapt it. So you've missed your
26:51
Speaker 2: boat in your window because you don't understand the industry
26:55
Speaker 2: into which you're selling, you know, and all the factors
26:57
Speaker 2: in and around it. And there's, like you said, it's
26:59
Speaker 2: very complex industry with supply chain issues and regulatory issues
27:04
Speaker 2: manufacturing all of it. I know you may or may
27:07
Speaker 2: not want me to talk about this, but too bad,
27:09
Speaker 2: you're going to have to. Very few women run venture funds.
27:13
Speaker 2: I happen to know. I think all of them one
27:14
Speaker 2: way or another.
27:16
Speaker 3: That's because you're soper a woman.
27:19
Speaker 2: Do you think results would be different if more women
27:21
Speaker 2: ran them?
27:22
Speaker 3: I do, Actually, I think we need more women at
27:25
Speaker 3: the table for sure. I look at other industries. I
27:28
Speaker 3: was just at Sundance with all my movie friends. It
27:31
Speaker 3: is so much more evenly balanced, and can every dinner,
27:34
Speaker 3: every lunch is so much more evenly balanced. And it's
27:38
Speaker 3: really refreshing to see. And I think it's a mindset.
27:43
Speaker 3: It's the way we think. Yeah, I do think we
27:46
Speaker 3: would be more successful.
27:47
Speaker 2: Are we going to get there? I mean, there was
27:49
Speaker 2: a whole article I just saw on Fierce about the
27:52
Speaker 2: rise of the women's the biotech CEO sisterhood.
27:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's on the CEO side. I think that we're
27:57
Speaker 3: doing a better job on the sea EO side. We're
28:01
Speaker 3: not doing a great job on the investing side. It's
28:04
Speaker 3: an allocation flow issue. It's the allocators are flowing to men.
28:09
Speaker 2: But I've never seen you wine about it. I've never
28:12
Speaker 2: seen you really make that an excuse. You've just decided
28:16
Speaker 2: it's a fact of life and you're going to get
28:17
Speaker 2: through it.
28:18
Speaker 3: Right. Well, here's the thing. I mean, it was the
28:21
Speaker 3: hardest thing I've ever done in my life is starting
28:23
Speaker 3: my own fund, period. And it was incredibly discouraging at
28:27
Speaker 3: the beginning for all the reasons we just discussed. But
28:30
Speaker 3: you have to make a decision in life, and I
28:33
Speaker 3: just decided. I'm like, well, if I don't do this,
28:36
Speaker 3: who's going to show my daughter that you can do it?
28:38
Speaker 3: And so I just did it, and I'm just going
28:42
Speaker 3: to keep doing it.
28:43
Speaker 2: You're doing it because there's.
28:46
Speaker 3: No way I'm stopping. You know, my daughter sees that
28:49
Speaker 3: I have my own fund and I've built it and
28:53
Speaker 3: that I've been resilient and had to overcome a ton
28:57
Speaker 3: of barriers to do it, and I want her to
28:59
Speaker 3: see that. I want her friends to see that. I
29:01
Speaker 3: want them to know that it's possible for them to
29:03
Speaker 3: do it. Also, if they want, you're their mentors.
29:05
Speaker 2: Who are your mentors?
29:07
Speaker 3: Oh, I've been incredibly fortunate. I've had so many mentors.
29:10
Speaker 3: I mean, Atomic Man, who was on the executive committee
29:13
Speaker 3: of Roche and Ranch diagnostis a lab core. He was
29:18
Speaker 3: from the youngest stage my mentor, and he always said
29:23
Speaker 3: he didn't care olds I was. He's like, you're a
29:25
Speaker 3: thinker and you're a doer period, and so he gave
29:28
Speaker 3: me so many opportunities. He also thought that women were
29:31
Speaker 3: smarter than men is and he always said it. Nick
29:34
Speaker 3: Kolucci was another one of my big mentors.
29:36
Speaker 2: At Yeah, we both share that guy as a role model.
29:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he's amazing. And he said to me,
29:41
Speaker 3: there's nothing that you put your mind to that you
29:43
Speaker 3: can't do, which is something my mother told me me
29:46
Speaker 3: the right. I mean, I come from a family where
29:49
Speaker 3: you know, my mom was a single mom. She raised
29:52
Speaker 3: five kids on her own. She put us all through college.
29:55
Speaker 3: She also never missed a day of work in her life.
29:58
Speaker 2: And couldn't have been cool or and nice than she was.
30:01
Speaker 3: Oh she was the best, wasn't she? God and built
30:05
Speaker 3: a business. I mean we grew up in an entrepreneurial environment.
30:08
Speaker 3: My mother, my aunt, my uncle built a business called
30:11
Speaker 3: General Valve. They made miniature solinoid valves. We worked from
30:15
Speaker 3: the day I can remember, and whether it was the
30:17
Speaker 3: assembly line or whatever, we all wanted to sand blast
30:20
Speaker 3: the valves because if you sand blastic valves, you've got
30:22
Speaker 3: paid per valve. Anyhow, they sold that company to Perkerhanaffin,
30:27
Speaker 3: which is a massive manufacturing company after years of hard work.
30:32
Speaker 3: She was my role model as it relates to and
30:34
Speaker 3: she said, anything you want to do in life, you
30:37
Speaker 3: will be able to do amazing.
30:39
Speaker 2: I believe in that raising money an allocation flow is
30:43
Speaker 2: just really fucking hard. Yeah, what do you think people
30:46
Speaker 2: misunderstand about how capital moves and how do you overcome
30:52
Speaker 2: some of those hurdles.
30:53
Speaker 3: I think sometimes CEOs of startups misunderstand how capital flows
30:59
Speaker 3: because they are raising money, and I'm raising money, so
31:04
Speaker 3: I have to go raise money and the only way
31:06
Speaker 3: I can invest in companies is if I go through
31:10
Speaker 3: the process of raising money myself. And so I don't
31:13
Speaker 3: know if everyone fully understands asset classes as it relates
31:17
Speaker 3: to just how difficult the venture market is right now
31:19
Speaker 3: because there's been little liquidity and so there's not a
31:23
Speaker 3: lot of capital being put back into the venture community.
31:27
Speaker 3: And then when you look at the endowments and all
31:29
Speaker 3: the problems that universities are having right now, that's a
31:33
Speaker 3: very scary situation for endowments, which then again impacts putting
31:37
Speaker 3: money into different asset classes where you're going to have
31:40
Speaker 3: money tied up for a long time, and in venture
31:42
Speaker 3: money gets tied up for a long time.
31:44
Speaker 2: Where's the money going that is left? Oh?
31:46
Speaker 3: Well, last year was the worst year on record for
31:50
Speaker 3: venture firms raising in I think over twenty years.
31:54
Speaker 2: Are we at rock bottom or you know it looks
31:56
Speaker 2: like the IPO windows slightly open?
31:58
Speaker 3: Well, you know the great thing for US our sector
32:00
Speaker 3: right now is the XBI was up last year I
32:04
Speaker 3: think thirty seven percent. The pharma acquisitions was also like incredible.
32:11
Speaker 2: And that should continue, right because they need to acquire
32:14
Speaker 2: to get what they want. Right.
32:16
Speaker 3: Well, so the problem right now with pharma is they
32:18
Speaker 3: have four issues that they're facing. One is patent cliffs.
32:22
Speaker 3: So three hundred billion dollars of revenue is going away
32:26
Speaker 3: due to patent cliffs and that's all happening now up
32:28
Speaker 3: through twenty thirty. Is that number, So think about that.
32:31
Speaker 3: So it's revenue that they are losing completely. Then you
32:34
Speaker 3: have the pricing caps, then you have tariffs, and then
32:39
Speaker 3: you have just a sheer number of like things flooding
32:41
Speaker 3: the market. And so Pharma's on a desperate search to
32:45
Speaker 3: identify novel targets, best in class to make up for
32:50
Speaker 3: all the revenue loss that they have. And so when
32:53
Speaker 3: I sit in my seat, I'm like, well, we're the
32:55
Speaker 3: technology partner to you. We can help you discover novel
32:59
Speaker 3: targets quicker, kill targets that aren't going to work quicker,
33:02
Speaker 3: get them through the development life cycle quicker, get them
33:05
Speaker 3: through regulatory quicker, get them into clinical trials that are
33:08
Speaker 3: more efficient all of it. Manufacturer. We have OURNAAI design
33:12
Speaker 3: manufacturer company, design and build company. So, yeah, pharma has challenges.
33:18
Speaker 2: You know, you didn't even mention NIH, CDC FDA. Then
33:22
Speaker 2: there's that, right, because we had them and during a
33:25
Speaker 2: decision and some other things this week and we'll see
33:28
Speaker 2: where that all lands. But I think some of the
33:31
Speaker 2: NIH funding has come back from what they thought they
33:34
Speaker 2: were going to lose. But I think just in the disruption,
33:36
Speaker 2: I think it's created. I think you and I have
33:39
Speaker 2: the same view. We think it's opportunity, but it isn't
33:43
Speaker 2: always viewed that way.
33:44
Speaker 3: I think as it relates to NIH funding, we are
33:46
Speaker 3: in trouble. Scientists are reluctant to come to the United States,
33:51
Speaker 3: and our PhDs can't set up labs do the lack
33:54
Speaker 3: of funding. Many are just fully on hold. And when
33:59
Speaker 3: you think about the United States, we are a scientific powerhouse.
34:02
Speaker 3: Think of how many Nobel Laureates we have here. We're
34:05
Speaker 3: basically handing our innovation to China. We're like, here, you
34:08
Speaker 3: go take it, and China is not holding back. No,
34:12
Speaker 3: China delight it to pull scientists from the best academic
34:16
Speaker 3: institutions in the United States and offer them incredibly robust
34:20
Speaker 3: salary packages, full laboratory and funding for all their companies.
34:25
Speaker 2: There you go.
34:25
Speaker 3: It's quite devastating, frankly.
34:28
Speaker 2: So what can we do about it?
34:29
Speaker 3: I mean, we have to convince the powers that be
34:32
Speaker 3: that they should actually do the opposite of what they're doing,
34:35
Speaker 3: and they should make the United States the most powerful
34:38
Speaker 3: scientific country in the world, and they should put more
34:42
Speaker 3: money towards innovation and own it.
34:44
Speaker 2: Love it all right, dropped the mic on that. Three
34:47
Speaker 2: questions I like to end with because you know you
34:49
Speaker 2: and I could probably go on for a few hours. Yeah,
34:52
Speaker 2: I always ask, and you're a perfect person to ask
34:54
Speaker 2: this because you do some really cool ones. What's the
34:56
Speaker 2: best vacation you've ever taken ever?
35:00
Speaker 3: Okay, well, we just took an amazing vacation. So my
35:03
Speaker 3: daughter and I Eve who you know, went free diving
35:07
Speaker 3: for the humpback whale migration in Tannga Wow, that's a mouthful.
35:12
Speaker 3: And it was unbelievable because it was when the mothers
35:16
Speaker 3: gave birth to the babies, so it was mom and
35:19
Speaker 3: babies and the moms are teaching them how to breach,
35:23
Speaker 3: and you're litterally like a few feet from the whales
35:27
Speaker 3: and you're just hanging out. And by the way, it
35:29
Speaker 3: was a big resilience trip also because free diving requires
35:33
Speaker 3: holding your breath like for three minutes is level two.
35:36
Speaker 3: One and a half minute is level one, and you
35:38
Speaker 3: have to be able to go down far enough. But
35:40
Speaker 3: it's training your brain. So it was very much of
35:43
Speaker 3: resilience training course. It was phenomenal. I highly recommend it.
35:47
Speaker 2: How do you see are you wearing equipment?
35:50
Speaker 3: Yeah? You have a snorkel and goggles on.
35:52
Speaker 2: Wow. So it's not like seeing the little fish in
35:55
Speaker 2: the around the coral reefs, right, it's not that.
35:59
Speaker 3: Well, No, I definitely went and saw fish around coral
36:02
Speaker 3: reefs because the coral there is spectacular, probably the best
36:05
Speaker 3: in the world. Actually, it's very rustic. It's not a
36:09
Speaker 3: fancy and not tourist driven at all. But I highly
36:13
Speaker 3: recommend it. We'll go back with you.
36:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, can't wait to be holding my breath for
36:18
Speaker 2: three minutes. What's the album if there was one, that
36:22
Speaker 2: would be the soundtrack of your life?
36:25
Speaker 3: Oh, my God, of my life. That's a tough one. Wow.
36:30
Speaker 3: I mean probably a Prince album or potentially a BG's album.
36:34
Speaker 3: I don't know, or Donna ser Sorry, Diana Ross, Dana Ross,
36:37
Speaker 3: What am I talking about? Diana Ross? Hands down, Diana Ross.
36:41
Speaker 2: All right, that makes sense to me. For you, I
36:44
Speaker 2: think we've danced to that.
36:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sana Turner's right over on my wall.
36:49
Speaker 2: Okay, got it. I think we understand it. Now. What's
36:53
Speaker 2: something you'd like to get real honest about this year?
36:57
Speaker 3: What's something you want to get real honest about this year?
37:01
Speaker 2: I think a lot related to grief and loss. I
37:04
Speaker 2: think it's something I didn't want to necessarily talk about
37:08
Speaker 2: having gone through it. So it's definitely something for me
37:12
Speaker 2: that's going to be important to talk about and to
37:15
Speaker 2: get real about, because I know myself I go into
37:18
Speaker 2: like a manic run to avoid some things like that. Yeah,
37:22
Speaker 2: So having gone through it and coming out the other
37:25
Speaker 2: side of it, which I do very much feel I'm doing,
37:29
Speaker 2: but not somehow missing it, and so I think we're
37:33
Speaker 2: going to have a lot of guests on the podcast
37:35
Speaker 2: to talk about it. I'm talking to my kids about it.
37:38
Speaker 2: I think it's about turning that into a positive somehow
37:42
Speaker 2: that we can do it and everybody you and I
37:45
Speaker 2: both know, everyone gets hit by the bouncing ball. Everyone
37:49
Speaker 2: could overcome the challenges if they knew the options, you know,
37:52
Speaker 2: but not everybody gets access to those options or knows
37:55
Speaker 2: about the options. Is why I do communications, so I think,
37:59
Speaker 2: and that's why I'm so into this podcast because I
38:01
Speaker 2: feel like it has something and we'll have a lot
38:04
Speaker 2: of important things to say, just like what you said
38:06
Speaker 2: about our innovation, and that was so well put. Maybe
38:10
Speaker 2: that's what you're getting honest about, you know.
38:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think getting honest about grief is so
38:16
Speaker 3: important because none of us have a playbook on how
38:19
Speaker 3: to deal with grief. We don't and it's not like
38:23
Speaker 3: there are enough resources to help you navigate it. And
38:26
Speaker 3: so that's a really amazing thing for you to be
38:29
Speaker 3: doing this year.
38:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you.
38:32
Speaker 3: Look, we've been through a lot of tragedies recently, so
38:37
Speaker 3: you know, it definitely makes you prioritize what's most important
38:41
Speaker 3: frankly in your life, and all the noise just kind
38:47
Speaker 3: of goes away if you make that your focus.
38:50
Speaker 2: Awesome, all right, Christine, Well we'll come back to this
38:53
Speaker 2: conversation again.
38:55
Speaker 3: So good to see you.
38:56
Speaker 2: Let's plan our visit soon. Yes, hey everyone, thanks for
39:03
Speaker 2: joining me on the Get Real podcast. You know, I
39:06
Speaker 2: hope you feel a little healthier hanging out with me.
39:09
Speaker 2: You know it's gonna be a lot of fun. Passing
39:11
Speaker 2: this along to others, please subscribe below, Please share. I'm
39:16
Speaker 2: excited not just to talk about healthcare, but a lot
39:19
Speaker 2: of other fun topics. It's about making healthy talk about healthcare.
39:24
Speaker 2: It is not a lecture. This is supposed to be fun.
39:27
Speaker 2: And look forward to spending more time with you in
39:30
Speaker 2: the future.