Latest / Beheaded / And Her: Lady Jane Grey, the Nine Days' Queen (Part II)

Transcript

And Her: Lady Jane Grey, the Nine Days' Queen (Part II) · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to season three, episode 13, part two, aka our season finale.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: And we've made it to the end of the season.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: We're here.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: We're here.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: The final execution.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Alive and thriving.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: But someone in our story is not going to be alive and thriving soon.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Not at the end.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Several people, actually.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: Several people.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: So our last episode, we um talked very highly of all the listeners who only listen to part two and not part one.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: And if you're one of those people and you're listening to this now and didn't hear us talking crap about you in the first part.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're talking about you now.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: You're hearing us.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: You're psycho.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: If you're listening to this episode and you think you can just cut ahead to the blood and the gore, you gotta go back.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: You gotta seep into it.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: It's about the buildup, right?
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Nothing in life should be about like cutting to the chase and just getting to the good stuff at the end.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: It's the journey.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: It's the I could argue some things are probably okay to just jump to the end.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: No, you gotta savor, guys.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: You gotta squeeze it all out.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: All the details.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: What are these words you're using?
1:17
SPEAKER_01: What?
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Squeeze that's the thing you say.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not making it weird.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: You just made it weird.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Now I have to say something different.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Looking at a towel with bananas all over.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, our acoustically sound room, we have beach towels hanging everywhere.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: I read a thing where it was like every family has a beach towel with cartoon characters on it.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Nobody knows where it came from.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: That is 1,000% my household all the time.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: You're like, what's this?
1:44
SPEAKER_02: I've got these.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Do you have old beach towels from when you were a kid?
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Not in my current house, but yeah, like at my house house in Colorado where I'm from.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I definitely do.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: I've got old ones from like Disney World trips, like circa 97 with like Goofy and Little Mermaid and Hunter Window Nations.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, some of them must have just been from like friends who stayed over when they were like six, because I have no idea where did this come from.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: They're so faded, they're not even the same colors anymore.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: No.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I had I didn't go to Hawaii until I was like, I don't know, 23.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And ever since I was like six, I have this old pink Hawaiian islands like one that I'm like, that's not mine.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: My mom has this big beach towel that's just been a towel in our family for centuries, I guess.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: Centuries.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: She got it down.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: No, she got it when she went to Hawaii, like prior to getting married.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Really?
2:31
SPEAKER_02: My parents have been married for 34 years or something like that.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: And there's no holes in this towel?
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what's funny is we saw a picture of her on this towel.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: My mom was a babe when she was.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when she was in her, I mean, she still is, but she was very, very good looking.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: And it's like her on this towel.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that towel, it was hot pink, and now it's totally white.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: It's so sunbleached.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Wow, is this her a banter?
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Are we gonna talk about beach towels?
2:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a good topic.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: I was into it.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: We just went into we go from talking about really serious.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, in our last episode, I told you all the only thing I'm concerned about with the next few months is just living by a pool.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this is very up my alley right now.
3:11
SPEAKER_03: How's that going?
3:12
SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: I okay, so I have a huge thing for like beach floaties, like pool floaties out.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: I know you do love beach floaties.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: It will never grow out pool floaties.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: I'll never grow out of it.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: I love pool floaties.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: And now I've gotten to a point where I have so many that I have to break them up between like places I go.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Like my dad, like recently moved to Arizona and like has a house here now.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: So like I gave him like 10 floaties and they're all fruit.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like watermelon and kiwi and pineapple, and they're really cute.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: You have so many pool floats.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: What's your favorite one?
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have a Sebastian.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like Sebastian from Little Mermaid, and he's so big that it's like five different things to blow up.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Like you blow up his shell, you blow up his head, you blow up his claws individually.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Like he's huge.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I fit two grown adults on him.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, like at my sister's house, again, she has like the Sebastian.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: We have like a rose bottle, like we have a giant pink fling, like flamingo, we have a swan, and then like I have a townhouse that I also use as an Airbnb.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Like that is a whole nother, like I think it's animals.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: I think it's like an alligator.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: I have so many that I have them broken up by property by different themes.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: So funny.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: You do love pool floaties.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: I love balloons, but that's like canceled now because helium is you can't do that anymore.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can still blow them up, they just can't have helium, like they just have to hang out on the floor.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: What's the fun in that?
4:30
SPEAKER_01: What about a balloon arch?
4:31
SPEAKER_01: You don't need helium for balloon arches.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: I love holding a bouquet of balloons.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: I know.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: You love the like the up experience.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: I just like tearing it.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: I've always wanted to get balloons at Disneyland and they're a waste because you can't go on the rides with them.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: And I know.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: I always wonder that.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Like when once you get a balloon, you just committed.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: You just walk around the shop.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: You can't even go into a shop.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: $25 of holding a thing.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Like, you better take it on your way out of the park, and then you can't put it in your car.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, what do you do with the balloon?
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I've never gotten one.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I hold on to my balloons for a long time until there did.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: I did I don't know if we told this story when you turned 30, but when you turned 30 and we were still in the office, this was like a couple years ago now.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I wanted to surprise Megan because I knew she loved balloons.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I love balloons.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: I blew, I got like Harry Potter balloons from Amazon.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: And I blew 30 balloons up.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Like one blew up every single year of life, and I attached them to her chair.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: So when she came in, almost floated.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, honestly, like the chair was barely touching the ground.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: And it was funny because I think we had an event for work like either that day or the next day, and I literally used up our entire helium tank.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Don't say these things, it makes us sound like non-environmentally friendly.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: This was eight years ago.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: This is before helium was a known thing about the scarcity of helium.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we were young, stupid kids, but I just really wanted Megan to have a good birthday.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: It was such a good birthday.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: I knew she loved it.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for doing that, Elizabeth.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: That was really fun.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: I know.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: It took a long time.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: I know it did.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: I hate blowing them up, but I love receiving them.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I hope you liked it.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, we were wondering what we were gonna talk about in our answer.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: We ended up talking about Towels Beach floaties and this is premium content, okay?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: This is what the people want.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Well wait, can I say one more thing about pool floaties?
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay, just because it's on my mind.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: I also like to play a fun game where I have the little drink inflatable pool floaties, like you put your drink, like your white claw in the middle of it, and you send off different drinks into different directions while you float on your regular like floaty, and whichever drink floaty comes to you, is one you just like sip on and you send it.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: You play this by yourself sometimes, sometimes with a friend, with a sister.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: I never had to play this with you.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: We haven't done okay.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: This sound, well, you'll be gone for a long time.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Eventually.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: That long, I'm coming back in June.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Not gone for you.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: I know you, and you're gonna be like, you're gonna send me a postcard that's like I'm never coming back.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Mail me the dog.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Where's Penny?
7:00
SPEAKER_01: Can you ship me the dog?
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I don't know.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you come back when you come back, if I come back, I better come back.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: I get nervous for you.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna see all this stuff, and that's change your name, change your accent.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: I just want to come back with an accent.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: That's all I want.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to hear that accent.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a blend of like American Southern.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna try real hard.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, so for all you losers who didn't listen to the first part of this season finale.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you sociopaths.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, we're talking about Ted Bundy.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, yep.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Jack the Ripper episode.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: No, actually, they never caught him.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: It's not an execution.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, never got him.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: I hate it when my friends will um give you suggestions.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, they always talked about this.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: They always like people who I know don't listen to the show, so I'm allowed to talk about them because I know they're not listening to this.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: They go, you know who you should do your crime podcast on?
8:03
SPEAKER_02: The Unibommer.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, the uh little toddler Tiara girl who got murdered.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Like Jon Bonnet Randy.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, we do executions, and people don't know the difference between an execution and like a murderer.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: They're like, well, wasn't she like kind of murdered execution style?
8:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't know.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a no, no.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: And we only do historical stuff.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: World War II and after.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean before.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: Before, I think you World War II and before.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like ranging from ancient times to World War II is like where we live, okay?
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Don't send us your yeah, like current crime murders, not your normal crime cognitive.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Not with girls.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: We're we're historians, okay?
8:44
SPEAKER_02: We're scientists and historians?
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Philosophers.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: We're also goofy because it's pretty late.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: It's like 10 o'clock at night.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: So now we're fine.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're getting later and later.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, we're gonna recap.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: But but but for real.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: But for real, recap.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: Go for it, Elizabeth.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm doing the recap.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Did you prepare?
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Let me just take a quick little look at the time.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: You want to listen to the last episode and then we'll Yeah, okay.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's just re-re-start everything.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Who are we doing?
9:11
SPEAKER_01: Who are we talking about?
9:12
SPEAKER_01: We are talking about the nine-day queen, Lady Jane Gray.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: We're on like day two of nine.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: We're we got a lot to cover here.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, but just to kind of recap, again, this is Tudor Era England.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, Edward VI, who was King Henry VIII's son and only heir, is on the throne.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: But he's like a boy king and he's very sickly.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Boy king.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And so he's looking around the family tree, not a lot of people to choose from.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: So he decides I really want someone who's Protestant in this family to take after me.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: So right before he dies, he inserts one tiny little line into his will that essentially gives Jane Gray, who's like a first cousin once removed, I don't know what she is, but she's in his family tree, refer to part one, and he decides she is going to be the next queen.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: He dies, she's immediately put on the throne by someone named Northumberland, who's kind of overseeing King Henry VI's rule.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: That's her father-in-law.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: That's her father-in-law.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And he so Northumberland puts his son and Jane Gray on the throne, basically, says, Here you go.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: She decides, you know what, I don't need a king.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: So I want to be queen by myself.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: So this is again like day two of her new reign.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: She says, I don't need a king, I'm just gonna be the queen.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: And that's all well and fine, but what we forget about this period in time, and she's not the only one who wants the throne, right?
10:36
SPEAKER_01: We have her other cousin, Mary I, aka Mary Tudor, who is very Catholic.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: She wants the throne.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: She's the eldest of all of these women that could potentially be on the throne, and she is now saying, wait a minute, what?
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Edward the Sixth died?
10:58
SPEAKER_01: My brother died, and I'm not queen.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: My brother died.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Where's my where's my crown?
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Why has no one told me that I'm queen?
11:05
SPEAKER_01: She's ready to assume the throne and is finally figuring out that they have put Lady Jane Grey on the throne and is not happy about it.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Did I miss anything important?
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, let me see here.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: You missed the part that she had two sisters.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, not important.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Not important.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, mom held her train during her procession.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: Not important.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: What else did you think?
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Um she liked the color purple.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: She wore green.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: She liked the color purple.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: Nothing we discussed.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: No, you did a good job.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm I'm teasing you.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: So so just long and the short of it, she is the new queen.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: We're in day like two or three of her reign.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh we also didn't mention how young she is.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: She's only like 16, maybe 17 at this point.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: 16, I think, yeah.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so where we left off in the last episode is that Mary is starting to pull her troops together.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, at this point, though, the the citizens of England do not know what has happened.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Everything's trying to be kept very hush-hush until they get all their chess pieces into place here.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: And this is, I thought this was really interesting.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: I did not know this before we went into our research.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Lady Jane Grey, now Queen Jane, is the first monarch who was announced via a print proclamation.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: So what we mean by that is normally there's like, right, big bells, and you just kind of know, okay, well, like, we know someone died, and yeah, the people just know who is the next successor.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: And there's people on the street corners like yelling out announcements.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, Edward's dead, Jane's on the throne.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: But people were confused.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: They didn't know who the next successor was because Edward was like very sneaky about changing his succession.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, so they write out a handwritten like proclamation pamphlet.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: It's like the actually like the actual um version of this is pretty big.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: It's like pages long.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: It's like three pages, like textbook size, pages.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: Big and first there's a herald who's reading out this long letter.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: And it's actually worded like a little bit confusing, and people are listening to it, like, okay, where's this girl?
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay, Edward died.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay, they're talking about this girl, Jane Gray.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: No one really knows who Jane Gray is.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, wait, she's a cousin.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: And then finally it kind of ends this big crop proclamation saying, and long live like Queen Jane.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Jane is on the throne now, and now people are real confused because they're like, uh, what about Mary?
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: I thought Mary was next.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's also confusing because the whole faith thing, right?
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Mary's Catholic, and we're finding out Jane is not.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: She's Protestant.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: This is a big deal for England.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: This is.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And at the time, this is uh pretty much a it's tough to say, actually, because Edward VI was Protestant, so a lot of people are showing support for, you know, the Protestant faith.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: But again, a lot of people are still Catholic and have been Catholic throughout this whole time, so there is that still divide.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people in the countryside are still like, we want Mary.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: She's Catholic.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm Catholic.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: I I was watching this really good documentary about this, and it it made me it kind of shed new light on this that I did I didn't consider before because we talk pretty like loosey-goosey about and now we're Catholic now, we're Protestant, now we're Catholic, now we're Protestant.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: But when you think about the actual emotions that people were going through, in the late 1540s, before Henry's death in 1547, everyone was Catholic.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: So if you're raised Catholic, you, Elizabeth, like you're Catholic, you know, you're taught these beliefs that, for example, like I need to sing this mass after someone dies, or else they're not gonna go to heaven.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: Or very, very strict, like, I need to hear this prayer in Latin from my priest who now needs to do communion with me.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: And if that's your entire world and that's your belief of how you get to heaven, and then all of a sudden Edward gets on the throne and he's tearing down the Catholic churches, breaking all the stained glass, like taking down the statues, abolishing all of the priests.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Even things like candles and rosaries were not allowed.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: Like the smallest little flair in a church.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: You weren't allowed to pray like that with a priest.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: And all along Mary Tudor was having private secret masses.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: But it it it sounds easy when we say it, but when that someone's entire world is their faith and it's taken away from them, yeah.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, of course they're gonna be emotionally involved in what their new religion needs to be.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: So I feel like we kind of lose that essence of it when we just say, like, okay, now we're Protestant, now we're Catholic, but there are people who are devout to that faith.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: And as Mary Tudor was a devout Catholic, Jane Gray was a very devout Protestant.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Protestant, exactly.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's very much how she wanted to paint herself as this new queen, right?
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Again, she's taking over for Edward VI, who's also Protestant, so it's not a huge leap or a huge difference, but she really wants to make herself like look very pious.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: She wants to be this very um pious Protestant.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: She's very excited for her future plans.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Again, this is only a couple days in, right?
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she's very optimistic about her future.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: She just told her her husband that he's not going to be a king, that he's only going to be a duke, and she wants to rule in her own right.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: So she's really just becoming very confident in her ability.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: She's speaking, you know, in a more high level, like she's she's asserting herself.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: She's not just going to be someone's puppet.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: She's showing a lot of confidence for somebody who's so young and had no intention of being queen.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: She's really just like, again, really rising up to be in the role, which is um something that's hard to do at this A point in time as a woman and be as someone so young.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: So they made all these copies of the proclamation and it it they have to work overnight.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: They're making hundreds of copies and they're handing them out and they're pasting them around the city, putting them up on the lamppost or whatever.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: They, I guess they don't have lampposts, you know, putting them around London.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: And people are very confused.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: And there's at least one person who speaks out against this because he's like, uh, who's this girl no one's heard of?
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, his name was Gilbert Pot, like that name.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: Cute.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh, just as like uh, you know, setting an example for the punishment of speaking out against their new queen.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: He was his ears were nailed to a pillar, and the only way he could get out was by ripping his ears off.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Ew.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: I wonder how deep they went in his ear.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Like just the cartilage up top, or you think they went kind of in the I don't know.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: There's actually an episode.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever watched Outlander?
17:58
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: You always talk about that show.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a scene where they do that to a little kid.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: A little kid.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's like a little kid who stole something and they they nail it in, which actually, like, I guess it wouldn't be that I mean it would be painful, but we get our ears pierced, right?
18:11
SPEAKER_02: But they put it in like right here.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's true he has to rip it the rest of it out to go.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty gross, but he's like a kid who does it.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, they're they're really setting an example with this guy.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: And now the whole city's confused.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Some people, I guess, are you know, who are Protestant, like, okay, we're gonna keep Protestant.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: There's also a lot of hidden Catholics who are like, well, yeah, where's Mary?
18:34
SPEAKER_01: And after you saw this guy get his ear ripped off, you're like, I'm not gonna be the one to be like, I'm sorry, like, raise my hand, where's Mary?
18:40
SPEAKER_01: So people are just like, okay, okay, going along with it, looking at each other, a little bit of a nervous time.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, uh how you said like Jane's starting to get a little bit more confident and comfortable in her role, also.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: We're still on July 10th.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, but July 10th is the first time that she starts writing letters.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: She's in the Tower of London, not un not as a prisoner, don't get ahead of yourself.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: She's in the Tower of London preparing for her coronation, which was tradition.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: And she starts writing letters, and for the first time, she's signing them as Jane, the Queen.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Which is important.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: Remember this.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: We'll bring it up later.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I also like how they spelled queen, or she spelled queen.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Because it was Q E.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Incorrectly.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
19:21
SPEAKER_01: E N E.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Q E N E.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: I always think it's so funny when we look at these old letters and everything's spelt completely wrong.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, how did we arrive to where we are today?
19:30
SPEAKER_01: At what point did all that change?
19:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I think I've mentioned this before.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember, but there's actually courses you can take to learn how to read old letters and like old handwriting like that.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Really?
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so we're at July 12th at this point.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna speed it up just a couple days.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: She's chilling, she's in the tower, everything's fine.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: She's got her pool floaties.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: Mary Tudor is rounding up her supporters though.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: And she's a little bit up north.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: She on by July 12th, by the morning of, she's not feeling super certain about her position, but she has about 600 followers, supporters.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think about that of her Instagram.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: No, physical, real people who are physically there in front of her.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh, she starts to move to kind of, I guess we can call it a fortress, but she moves her party um and she's starting to travel, which is pretty risky business of her.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: But she's gaining all of these supporters, all these farmers, all these, you know, very traditionalist people who are like, well, yeah, there, you know, word is getting out throughout the land, it's spreading.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Not as fast as Instagram, but for the time of, you know, but for the sign of the times, it was spreading pretty quickly.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think she also printed some pamphlets to to the people as well.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, there's a lot of word of mouth, but I think she also had something that she wanted circulated quickly to remind people, like, hey, remember like what King Henry VIII wanted, what his original plan for succession was.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, remember that, you know, there's more to be to be said here than just a sickly boy king deciding who the next person is.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: So um, she started circulating a little bit of of uh pamphlets herself too to gain some momentum.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Northumberland, who is again the father-in-law who kind of started all of this.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: He is building up his supporters as well.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: And this is when we turn into a full-on civil war just about.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: He's building up his army and he used to be a soldier.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: So they've they've put him in the position, you know, they thought, like, oh, maybe Jane's father, Henry, but he's not the right guy.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, Northumberland gets his son Robert also involved, and they're trying to get their soldiers together, and they are ready to battle Mary.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: If it comes down to it.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Which is a pretty like I'm so shocked a big theatrical movie hasn't been made of this yet.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: No, you would think so.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Why not?
22:00
SPEAKER_02: And can we be in it?
22:01
SPEAKER_02: Can we be in it?
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Can we be extras?
22:03
SPEAKER_02: I want to be Mary.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you want to be Mary.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Or I want to be the midget sister.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Mary.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: The other Mary.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: The other Mary.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, not Mary, not Mary Tudor.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about Mary.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: The undersized.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: And people are undersized.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: The younger, the undersized younger daughter.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Who would I be in all of this?
22:20
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: I think Mary Tudor's the only one I could be Mary the First.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Because she's like Catholic and You could be Jane.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: You're a little uh not as pale.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: No, I'd have to wear some makeup, some some filtering.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Get me a little bit paler, more pious looking.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: We should talk about that.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Like who would be a perfect Jane Gray?
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Like, not right now because we're in the middle of it and we tend to interrupt ourselves, but maybe at the end.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Think about it.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: It's on the mind.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: I'll think about it too.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so at this point it's July 14th, and Northumberland officially sets out his troops to go capture Mary.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: And they think they don't know how much support she has quite yet, right?
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Like they think, oh great, we've made all the right moves.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: We have the tower, we have our new queen, we're gonna send someone out to go capture Mary because she's rogue, she's a little crazy, and she's out there somewhere.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: She's a little cray cray.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: She's a little cray crazy, so we need to make sure she's contained.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: But boy, did he underestimate her and her following.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: She has a huge following.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh Jane starts to get wind that Mary Tudor is coming out for her.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: She knows, okay, we got a lot of um Mary supporters.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: I have some supporters, but I don't think she really quite the capacity of the situation has not quite resonated.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: But she's she's not stupid.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: She's a very smart girl.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm intentionally saying a girl.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: She's literally a girl.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Um also, Mary at this point, I think is 37.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: She's significantly older and more experienced and like been around.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: I think, okay, let's let's pause for a second, think about Mary.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: All the shit she's been through in her life.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: She's probably like, are you kidding me?
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Another one of you butches coming out for me, trying to take my title from me.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Actually, that's a good recap of Mary, real quick.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: So Mary is the daughter of King Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, right?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Who's King Henry VIII's first wife, his first daughter.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: First daughter, um, oldest child in general.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: So she has seen her mother be dismissed from court so that Harry can marry Anne Boleyn.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Harry?
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Did I say Harry?
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Because your buddies with Harry.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Because buddies with Harry.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: You can call him Harry.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm only the closest confidence, call him Harry.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: So, so yeah, so Henry slash Harry sends Katherine.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Your I'm I'm talking like to you, listener, as if you are Mary the first, but sends your mother away, basically saying, I want to marry someone like young and adorable.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna marry Anne Boleyn.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: So you are you can call her young and adorable, but sure.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm following.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Continue, continue.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: I'll say, I'll say uh wise, beautiful, intriguing, mysterious, conniving woman.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so marries this new person who's your stepmom, who you do not respect.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: She's also very clear that she wants to lead this reformation in England while you're fiercely Catholic and your mother was Catholic.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, literally, like right after the An Boleyn and Henry get married, your mother dies, like on alone, out in the country, brokenhearted, separated from you.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: And then you're told, hey, you're actually an illegitimate daughter because you they annulled their marriage, their marriage was never valid, you're a bastard child.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: So great, you're now a bastard child.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: You're just sent from different palaces all over the countryside, basically been being told like you don't really exist.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: And then Elizabeth is born, and then she's forced to take care of her sister basically as like a servant.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you have to then serve a high-class servant to her baby sister.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Your baby sister, who is raised by like all these Protestants, and every pretty much 10 years, the country is shifting between Protestant and Catholic and Protestant and Catholic.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: And then lo and behold, Henry has a son, and he's the most important one because he's gonna be king, so you just have to step aside for this boy king to come rise to power, who's sickly and weak and infirm, and TB all over him.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: He's got the TB, he's got the COVID, and he's Protestant too.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: So you are just biting your time and waiting, and like obviously, you're not married at this point.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: You don't have children.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: Bitter, you know, better old hate.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: A little bit bitter because you're not like cute.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: Did you see that chill in her portrait?
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: She wasn't that attractive.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Not that cute either.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: It had nothing going.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: So she, you know, had had some marriage proposals, nothing really worked out.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: So she is just like, okay, when am I gonna be queen?
26:42
SPEAKER_01: When am I gonna turn this country Catholic?
26:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, when can I redeem, you know, everything that my mother had lost, type of thing.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: She's just waiting for her little brother to die here, her sick little TB'd brother.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: So you kind of feel for Mary a little bit, right?
26:55
SPEAKER_02: Like Yeah, it's finally her turn, and then she's like, actually, your your first cousin once removed this girl named Jane, she's now queen.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure I wish there was an account of her reaction when she got the news.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, was she just like sipping some wine and just drops her glass and just goes, yeah, big dramatic spit around?
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm sorry, did I mishear you?
27:19
SPEAKER_02: Who's Jane fucking gray is what I would say.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: Did she just smack the person who told her this news?
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: See, we need to make a movie and have that side of the reaction.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: We need to make a satirical thing.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Who's that guy we like on Instagram who does all the funny little satires of like Adrian Bliss?
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Adrian Bliss, if you're listening to this, he's hilarious.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: TikTok star.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't follow a lot of TikTok stars, but when I do, it's Adrian Bliss.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: That would be cute if he does like Mary's reaction when he hears about Jane Gray.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, who the problem is nobody knows what we're talking about.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: He does funny ones with Amberlynn and Henry VIII.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: You have to look him up.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: He's so funny.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: I post sometimes his things on our stories.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: But anyways, all right, so Mary's bitter.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Mary, Mary, quite contrary.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Bloody Mary.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: Bloody Mary.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, so she's extremely bitter at this point.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: So Jane is getting wind that Mary is up and coming.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: And she does something a little bit bold.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: She does have supporters in the tower with her.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: She has the Privy Council, and she has, you know, her her father, her uncle, her supporters.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: She physically, and to the utmost sense of the word, literally, locks them into the Tower of London with her.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: Like locks the doors on it.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: Locks the doors, holds the key on her own person.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: In her little like front pocket.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Her little pouch.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: This is a kind of a bold move because coming from someone who seemed like so innocent, so submissive, and so, oh who, me, is now like, right, oh no, I'm gonna hold the keys.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: None of you guys are leaving.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's gonna just stay, put where we're boarding up the windows, yeah, barricading the doors.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: And she's doing this because she's getting nervous.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Because it already started.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: One man, Sir Edward Peckham, the treasure of the mint.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: He was in the tower.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: He's a supporter of Jane.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: He just goes missing.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Gone.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: He's missing.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: How do you get out?
29:18
SPEAKER_02: That's why she locked up the doors.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: He runs out.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: This guy confesses his allegiance to Mary and not Jane.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: He rounds up 10,000 supporters for Mary.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: He switched sides.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: Very quickly.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Once one goes, they all kind of start dropping.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: So one by one, they find ways to leave.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: How?
29:41
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't tell you because the doors are locked.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: I know.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Climbing out the windows, who knows?
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Digging holes in the concrete.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Jane starts writing to landowners, again, signing in as Jane the Queen, spelled incorrectly.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: Writes to landowners asking for their help and their support and trying to build up her case.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: And meanwhile, they're dropping like flies, her supporters, including her own uncle, Arendelle.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Sounds like frozen.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, also where uh Elsa and Anna live.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: Her own uncle, who was obviously standing up for her at the beginning, switches sides, leaves, and proclaims he's in favor of Mary.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: The only people who really stay for her are her father, yeah, her husband Guildford, who we also call the little shithead.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: And her father.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Yep, exactly.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Which is good for her dad.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: I know.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: He's like a stand-up guy.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: I feel like even though that, you know, he hit her that one.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say he did hit her at the beginning, but yo, he's like there.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Kind of ride or die.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Um we'll get there.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: We'll get to that point.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Really quick, one last thing I want to say on this topic is um there's kind of a good point that I I was reading this one article about uh they're switching sides because would you rather like you're they're all out for themselves and they're thinking where do they think that like the dice are gonna fall?
31:10
SPEAKER_02: And how are they gonna be seen as a traitor?
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna be seen as a traitor because you're supporting Mary and you wanna leave, or is Mary gonna win and you're seen as a traitor against Mary who can become queen because you were there with Jane trying to support her?
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: They're trying to figure out who's who's gonna come out as the winner in this, and they want to be on that side.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: I always think of like the movie Count of Monte Cristo, which is one of my favorite movies and books, but there's a part where um there's a character who talks about like being a traitor, and he's like, being a traitor is just about dates.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Sometimes I'm the traitor, sometimes I'm the patriot.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's totally it's totally true.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, it's just about are you at the right place at the right time, back in the right horse?
31:53
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, there is another quote in this documentary we were watching together that I really like, and I wrote it down because I feel like it doesn't apply just to the scene, the story, but so much.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: They said, history is written by the winners.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Winners, yep.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Winners right now.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: It's such like a deep thing when you think about it.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: You always kind of hear one side of it.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: It's true, and like in this day and age, we're used to being inundated with so many and much information from all different sides.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, back in the day, history is written by winners.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: You don't hear what the losers have to say because they're either killed, all their items are destroyed, all their, you know what I mean?
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Like prison.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're in prison, all their family's dead, like yeah, everything that you knew is gone.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, even Lady Jane Gray herself only has one portrait of her.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: One, and they don't even know how again legitimate it is.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: It was also painted 50, 60 years after her death.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: And her eyes going the wrong direction.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: It's got a little cockeye situation that knows how legit it is.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: Like it might be real for all we know.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, the history is written by the winners.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: It is.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: So this is all leading up to July 19th.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, so July 19th, the Privy Council officially says that they're switching support to Mary.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: So at this point in time, a lot of things happen on July 19th.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, someone actually comes for her father, Henry, and says, Hey, we're going to remove all of the titles and everything that Jane Gray has.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, and he says, I'm only one man.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Like he knew at that point it was over, Privy Council had left, they had switched sides.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so he goes to Lady Dra.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: At this point, she's back to Lady Jane Gray, and he says, Hey, honey, you you're not queen anymore.
33:34
SPEAKER_02: I you had a good nine-day run, but I'm so and he he physically takes off the like state-off cloth, which is very symbolic.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: Like he's removing things from her head.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: It literally is just like, okay, give me the crown, give me the sash, give me the this, yeah.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: And she just goes, Okay.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: And she's a little bit relieved, because obviously she was reluctant to take this job at first.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like she just removes herself from her queen-like state and just says, Okay, great.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, can I go home now?
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, oh that one part breaks my heart.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: Sweet thing, sweet thing.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Can I go home now?
34:07
SPEAKER_01: As if none of this happened, as if you can just go back into your country house and live your carefree life again.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Like she's not a naive girl, but in that moment, I felt like it didn't settle with her yet.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: And she was like you realize how young she's kind of in shock and kind of like, all right, so I can just walk away from this.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, this was fun.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, this wasn't real though.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: Like dress up.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: I felt like yeah, it it didn't resonate.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: It didn't feel like reality for her.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: And we we mentioned this in the first part again, for those who listened to it and were paying attention.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: When she went to the Tower of London expecting it to be her coronation, she had no idea that would be the last time that she would ever leave.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: She she would never leave again.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: She would never leave.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: So again, thinking that she's just gonna resume her life elsewhere.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, so so then the privy council members, you know, immediately flocked to Mary and they beg for her forgiveness.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: They say, We are so sorry, you know.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we had this basically edict from Edward VI, who made Jane Gray, uh, you know, the queen.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: We also had Northumberland, who's totally the guy behind this all.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: We were just listening to him, you know, we apologize.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Total scapegoat.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, total scapegoat.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, which is true.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, it totally was behind it all.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: He was really the person that led all of this forward.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they apparently, and again, whether or not this actually happened, but it was said they even pointed daggers at their stomachs and said, you know, we we understand like how how bad we are, we have wronged you, we are willing to die for you, type of thing.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: And Mary, who is now the new merciful queen, says, no, no, it is fine.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Because she wants people to be on her side.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: She doesn't want to immediately become the queen everyone hates.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, who later becomes Bloody Mary, but at this time she knows she doesn't want to be dividing people, she wants people on her side, and she says, Of course I'll pardon you.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: Of course, I understand it was a mistake, of course I want to be your new and good queen.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: So she really starts to again rally people from the privy council on her side.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: And we have to remember that a large part of the population is already on her side.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: So once the people in the countryside kind of get wind of this and people in London, they get really excited because this is who they wanted all along on the throne.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: This is who they expected all along on the throne.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: So once it's announced in the streets, people are cheering.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: People are literally pouring wine, they're dancing, they're just completely elated.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, some of the members of the Privy Council literally go into Cheapside in London, which is like a district in there, and they just say, Hey, you know, Mary's queen now, and they tear down the posters of Jane, and everyone's like, Woo! We did it! Like, you know, bust out the pool floaties, like everyone is just so excited.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Um and that same day is when, again, a lot happens on this exact same day, but Lady Jane Grey is then imprisoned at the Tower of London.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: She's told, You're not going home.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: This is the ninth day, hence the nine-day queen.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes, stripped of her belongings, taken to the jailer's apartment, um, officially arrested.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited to actually see this when I go to England next week.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, but so her and Guildford, her husband, are both arrested, and Jane is kept, yeah, kept in like the the jailer's house.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: So she's in like an actual kind of looks like an apartment.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: It's like rooms more of living areas on the tower grounds.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, Guildford is in the tower next to her called the Bowchamp Tower.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: And they can there are like I've heard different versions.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: I actually a really good book is called, I'm sure a lot of people have read it, it's very popular, is called Innocent Traitor by Allison Weir.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: And they talk a lot about this of how like they try to kind of see each other, they kind of try to trick the guards.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: Or I mean, I don't know if this is just for the purpose of the historical fiction or not, but how they try to get meetups together, they are kind of allowed to walk around the gardens at someone's convenience.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: So cute.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: It's uh yeah, I mean, they're still married through this.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: Um but they are kept separate.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, and her father is set free, which is kind of nice because through all the pardons and whatnot, the person who's not set free, the very first of our victims, is Northumberland.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: Again, the father-in-law, the one who set all of this up.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: The ultimate scapegoat.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: It was his idea from the very beginning to weasel Jane into the succession line.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: And it was all for the purpose of getting her son, his son, his son, the crown.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: July 25th, he's arrested and brought to the tower as a prisoner.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh he he's held for a little bit, but he is executed on August 22nd.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: It's a public execution, which means there's thousands of people watching and there's thousands of Catholics.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: All of his, all of Mary's supporters are there.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it's I mean, I think there's something to be said about a public execution during these times versus a a private execution.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Because it's just a a lot of humility and people yelling at you, and I'm sure he's up there trying to say some little speech before he's beheaded.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: And they're just heckling him.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can't even hear it in the crowds.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: There's just they actually would build stands for people to watch this.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: They could see it, yeah.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty, you know, pretty dark.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: And even when he's being led to the scaffold and everything, I mean he was being pelted with stones and everything.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: People really disliked him, especially because if anyone's a villain in this, you know, story, he kind of is, again, because he he prompted all of this for his own selfish intentions.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: So people knew that.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: And people were not taken kindly to him.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: Mary's uh counsel is very much telling her, you need to get Jane out.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: You need to also sentence Jane and her husband to death.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: They are try they are traitors, and they are a risk to you if they're if they're living.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: And Mary again is trying to show her piety and her her grace and her her forgiveness, and she's really delaying signing the death penalty for Jane for months.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: They stay in the tower for until February the next year, at least.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And you know, when they finally do go to trial, it's really interesting, like all the things that are undone for Lady Jane Grey.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: She's no longer referred to as the queen at all.
40:45
SPEAKER_02: Obviously.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they just call her or queen spelled incorrectly.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: And this is kind of a rub.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: They even call her Jane Dudley, wife of Guilford.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, like because she was very clear about he's not going to be a king, and here they are like, oh, wife of Guilford.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Like Jane Dudley, not even calling her Gray, not even calling her, you know, former queen or anything.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she is officially charged with high treason, and so is Guilford.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, also both of his brothers were, and Thomas Cramner, fun fact.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they use all this evidence from her nine-day rule of like, you signed everything as Jane the Queen.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Yep, we mentioned that.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: That was a very important piece of evidence that was seen as treason, right?
41:25
SPEAKER_02: Signing her name like that.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: So they knew the treasonous punishment for a woman was either a burning or a beheading.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they also sentenced uh Guilford to a drawn and quartering.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: The worst.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: But at this point, too, Mary's still very reluctant.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, these things are happening, but she's still like, well, it's not gonna be a burning.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: If anything, it's gonna be beheading.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm not even sure I want to do this.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: So she's she keeps delaying execution dates, she keeps delaying all of these um these things.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: And I hate to say it, but the Grays aren't really learning their lesson here.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: At this point, they probably could have reversed the decision by just saying, you know what, Mary, you're right.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: You are the new queen.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: We do want to be Catholic.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: Converting their faith.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're ready to be here and serve you when we were wrong and we were mistaken, and this was all just a big mix-up, right?
42:15
SPEAKER_01: But no, Lady Jane Gray is still very committed to her Protestant faith, so much so that she's writing letters.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: As we said, writing letters as a female wasn't something that was typically done.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: And she's writing letters to her former tutors and to other Protestants that she knows, trying to stir up some sort of like Protestant rebellion, essentially.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Saying, hey, support me.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can still win this, like, I can still come back.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, let's keep the faith alive, let's not let be, you know, be ruled by Catholics and false idols and blah blah.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she's literally doing this while she should be begging for Mary's forgiveness.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: Should she?
42:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was gonna say, not necessarily should, but if she wants to live.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: That's where the question comes down from.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: She's kind of seen as this martyr for Protestants because similar to what we've seen with Joan of Arc and our other martyrs out there.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, what's his name?
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Guillermo Del Toro, no.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: The Bruno, the cosmic Bruno, the cosmic crisp guy.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Cosmic crisp.
43:16
SPEAKER_02: I know getting late.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, but she refuses to convert her faith, which some might see that as very brave, some might feel see it as very foolish.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, which it definitely is brave, but it is also, again, it's not the way to live.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: It's a death sentence.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: It's also sentence.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and meanwhile, her father in January 1554 is also not doing his part to so suck up to Mary and to save his family.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: He actually joined a rebellion, which was called the Rebellion of Thomas Wyatt the Younger, which is against the Queen Mary's.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: You know that name.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: Right?
43:49
SPEAKER_01: Which was against Queen Mary's plans to marry Philip of Spain.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: So he joins this rebellion, takes up arms, you know, tries to again rally people on his side against Queen Mary.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, even though Mary's really trying hard to be a merciful queen, she sees this and she's like, I'm sorry.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: No.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: I gave you so many chances.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: You had the chance to plead forgiveness.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: You have not.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: You were both sentenced to death.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he really sealed her fate.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: He he sentenced execution along with all the other rioters.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: And they're all caught and drawn and quartered.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: And but by doing that, yeah, he lost every last bit of hope of Mary forgiving Jane.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So Lady Jane Gray's execution is officially scheduled for February 9th, 1554.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: But it was postponed a couple days because Jane Gray was actually given the chance to convert to Catholicism again by Mary.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: Mary says, Hey, we got your date on the books.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: February 9th is coming for you.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Will you convert?
44:52
SPEAKER_01: She says, No, thank you.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Protestant, again, ride or die.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: So February 12th rolls around, and this is the new date of her execution.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: There's no more waiting.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: There's no more uh hoping that she's gonna convert.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: This is the final day.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: I thought it was sweet because her husband Guildford wanted to meet her before they were both being executed together on the same day.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: And she didn't want to see him.
45:17
unknown: Right.
45:17
SPEAKER_02: But for good reason.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: No, you think that sounds like what the heck?
45:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: She didn't want to see him because she said, No, we're gonna see each other soon, but in a better place.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: So she's very faithful that they're gonna go to heaven together.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:29
SPEAKER_02: And she didn't want to she I think she was also really scared.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think if they had seen each other, she would have gotten more emotional, been sad, known this is the last time I'm gonna see you.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: We're both gonna die.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: You're about to lose your head.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: That much harder.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: So she she said, No, I don't want to see you.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, but he got carted out first.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: He was executed outside of the tower, which means it was public, which means again, just like Northumberland, it was a little bit more of a rowdy situation.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: Um there were some people who were shaking his hand, I read.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know, which seems random, but there's also probably more people who were against him.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was not drawn and quartered, he was just beheaded with one single blow of the axe, which is a bit of a a relief, I suppose.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought this was interesting.
46:16
SPEAKER_02: I learned a fun, a fun fact.
46:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: Words of Elizabeth.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: Between 1483 to 1941, there were only 22 people who were executed inside of the Tower of London walls.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: In the walls.
46:30
SPEAKER_02: Within the tower, which means a private execution.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: All the others were out on Tower Hill or elsewhere.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Um larger, more public executions.
46:39
SPEAKER_02: There was only five women who were executed inside the tower, two of those being Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:49
SPEAKER_02: The third of the five is Jane Gray.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: So our Lady Jane Gray had a private execution inside the tower.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, she dressed in all black.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: She wore her prayer book, which shockingly is still in existence.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: It looks pretty good.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: It's in the archives, but we were watching the documentary.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: Because it was the curator of the British Library who brought it out on that documentary.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's pretty cool.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: They still have it.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, she read her own Protestant Psalms.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is where it gets really fuzzy.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Because there's so much embellishment of what happened during her execution and what probably actually happened.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: I actually really like the embellished version.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: And I want to believe this part is real, but it could be true.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: It was only a lot of these words were written again, like a couple weeks after her execution.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: So whether or not it was just like, again, an embellished story or if it was kind of a more accurate account, but this is what was said um during her execution, allegedly.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: So she said to the executioner once she got up um on this, I guess, stand, scaffold.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, do you call it a scaffold if it's just a block?
48:00
SPEAKER_01: You do.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: The scaffold is the part that you walk up and the little stage.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: For some reason I always associate it with hangings, but it's just where you walk up.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: So the stage, the scaffold.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she says it's all just one big production.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she says, I pray you dispatch me quickly to the executioner.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: And then she says, Will you take it off before I lay me down?
48:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think she's referring to her head.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: Like She's probably thinking of Anne Boleyn.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Like Anne Boleyn, will you just kind of they did it as a surprise before she knew it was coming.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: And he looks at her and he says, No, madam.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: So then she says, Okay, so she blindfolds herself, which I don't know why there's not a person there to blindfold her instead.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, she gives her like gloves to her ladies and everything and D-robes, blindfolds herself.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why no one else thought too.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and while she's blindfolded, she can't like find the block.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: She's like moving her hands around, like kind of in the air.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: She's starting to get a little nervous, and she says, What shall I do?
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Where is it?
48:58
SPEAKER_01: And so at this point, again, somebody has to come.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Again, we're not we're not sure who, but helps her and guides her to where the block is.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, here you put her neck down, put your hands down, touch it.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: So she finally finds the block, stretches her neck out, and says, Lord, into thy hands I commend my spirit.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: One clean stroke of the axe.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: So I want to believe that story.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: There's the famous picture, the famous painting, which I'm sure obviously I'm gonna post that picture when we release this episode.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: But we're all very familiar with it.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: It's a gorgeous painting called The Execution of Lady Jane Grey, painted in 1833, so much later.
49:40
SPEAKER_02: 300 years later, um, by Paul Del Rochere.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh everything about that entire painting is historically inaccurate.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: Like everything from what they're wearing to how she looks to what the people are doing around, the executioner's wearing like red jaggings.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
50:00
SPEAKER_02: Jaggings.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what's happening.
50:02
SPEAKER_02: He looks like a joker.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: Like everything about that is historically inaccurate.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Except for the straw on the floor.
50:09
SPEAKER_02: Except for the straw on the on the scaffold.
50:11
SPEAKER_02: Um so it also that that painting is based off of that embellished story, which was written by John Goff a few weeks later after the execution.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure like someone is like, oh yeah, I saw it.
50:24
SPEAKER_02: I was there, I was front row, and this is what happened.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: And he kind of like, you know, elaborates on what actually happened.
50:29
SPEAKER_02: I I like that version of it.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: It makes her sound very sad and innocent and a victim throughout this whole thing, and you're just you just feel for her.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, on the other hand, is she that dumb to be like, oh, I don't know, whatever.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: I'll add my own I don't need to add my commentary during this part.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, it is true though, because again, she is painted in so many different ways, right?
50:50
SPEAKER_01: Some people think, oh, like poor young teenage girl who's just a complete puppet who all these men just forced onto the throne, and then nine days later is removed from the throne, and then she's executed, and she's just young and silly and naive and just wants to go back to her country house.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: And then there's other people that said, no, look at the people she was around, like the strong women she was around.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, she was in Catherine Parr's house.
51:12
SPEAKER_01: Like she was a fierce Protestant.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: She was honestly more educated than Elizabeth and um Mary, because again, she was like the eldest daughter, they didn't have the son that was on her.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and she had tutor blood in her.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: You call me a tutor woman does not have you know feistiness, yeah, the wits and the bravery.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but she is definitely a legend.
51:35
SPEAKER_02: She is oftentimes skipped over when people think about the order of royalty and British history, and some people wouldn't even consider her a queen because it was only nine days and she never left the Tower of London in those nine days.
51:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I would consider it, yeah, she she had the crown.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: This is what kills me is 102 people signed off on Edward's succession, his his little version of his will.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: My journal plan.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: Um so at one point it was legal, and then eventually it bec it it became illegal just because Mary had more supporters.
52:15
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: And Mary completely defied her brother's wishes.
52:18
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
52:19
SPEAKER_02: Who knows what?
52:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Henry's wishes would have been all of this is like had one thing have been different in history, how much would have everything have changed?
52:28
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
52:29
SPEAKER_02: It's just kind of wild to think about.
52:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:31
SPEAKER_02: But I don't know, do you consider her as a part like in the succession?
52:35
SPEAKER_02: Is she one of the like royal?
52:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or is she considered one words like that one of the monarchs?
52:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: I definitely consider her one.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Again, I know it was very short, but we don't define reigns off of length.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like you said, she was signed off on by the current king by at least 102 other uh nobles, including the privy council.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: She was, you know, brought to the tower with every intention of having a coronation.
53:03
SPEAKER_01: Like again, had Mary not kind of come out of the woodwork and said, no, no, this is mine, she would have probably reigned for quite a while, especially because the country at that time was still pretty much Protestant under Edward VI.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: So I believe it was just kind of a wrong place, wrong time, didn't work out situation, but I do believe she is considered a monarch.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: And I love, love, and we talk about this in the first part of this episode, that she just completely rejects her husband as king.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like he just is like, Great, here I am.
53:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I was brought here to be the king and rule over her, and she was like, Yeah, you're gonna be a duke.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: I just I think she's a very powerful figure and obviously dealt with a lot at a very young age, um, and ultimately paid the you know, the ultimate price of her head.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I I think she's a badass, and I think she's much stronger than people give her credit for.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: I do love her.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh we really quick though, we need to mention what happened to her sisters, yeah Catherine and Mary.
53:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
53:57
SPEAKER_02: So she had these two younger sisters, they also have an extremely sad story because even though Jane was executed, it didn't quite end, and Mary still had it up for the Gray family and Elizabeth.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
54:10
SPEAKER_02: Both Elizabeth I also still always saw that they were sisters.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: They were always a threat to their to their throne.
54:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: So both sisters were basically on house arrest for decades.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: For a very long time.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: Very long time.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: Their mother Catherine ended up dying.
54:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Their mother was really pleading, you know, for for pardon.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think they did officially get pardon, well, at least the mother did, and she was allowed to live at court.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then her father, too, Henry, let's not forget about him, but he was executed 11 days later, which is very sad because obviously he lived just long enough to see her and her husband um get executed.
54:47
SPEAKER_01: But on February 23rd, 1544, he was also executed.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: Was he beheaded?
54:53
SPEAKER_01: Did I say 44, 1554?
54:55
SPEAKER_01: 1554.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: 1984.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: 1989.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, he was also beheaded.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, so again, very kind of tragic end to the to the gray branch of this family.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Our season's over.
55:12
unknown: I know.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: I think that was it.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: I I think we uh we uh told the whole story here.
55:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to hear your guys' thoughts.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
55:23
SPEAKER_02: Just because our season end is ending doesn't mean we need to stop communicating.
55:28
SPEAKER_02: So I definitely want to hear if you think that Queen Jane Grey is actually a queen.
55:35
SPEAKER_02: Should she be considered part of royalty in British history, or was she was it all just kind of a fiasco that fell flat?
55:42
SPEAKER_02: Um and who would play her in a movie.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: Do you know who who?
55:46
SPEAKER_01: Who do you think?
55:47
SPEAKER_01: It's so hard for me because I can't get the image of like Helen Bottom Carter out of my head.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: So let me try and reimagine that as like the 1980s, whatever version.
55:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like made to be a love story between hair.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, let me think of someone modern times who I think would be great.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: I also have to think about the age of it.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: I know who.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: I like the girl from Queen's Gambit, that Anya, I don't know her last name, girl.
56:11
SPEAKER_01: Taylor Joy.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: She's awesome.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: I like it.
56:14
SPEAKER_01: I really like her too.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: Imagine her like pale with like darkish hair and just like the pious Protestant queen.
56:21
SPEAKER_02: I like your idea better.
56:22
SPEAKER_02: My idea was um Dove Cameron, but I think she's too pretty.
56:27
SPEAKER_02: Who's that?
56:27
SPEAKER_02: She's like an old Disney star.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: Can you Google her real quick?
56:31
SPEAKER_01: Can I see her picture?
56:32
SPEAKER_02: She's from um Descendants.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: Wait, the little blonde girl?
56:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but she's more edgy now that she's older.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: She probably looks, yeah, more mature now.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: I think she looks too silly and young.
56:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, we need someone a little bit more like someone who's has more of a badass streak.
56:48
SPEAKER_02: Someone whose eye is going the other way, like her portrait.
56:51
SPEAKER_02: Wow, no, just kidding.
56:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or the girl from no the girl from Bridgerton, that mean girl's way too young looking and like too soft for me.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: I need someone harsher.
57:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we need someone who has like strong features.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm sticking with pious.
57:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I think actually that's a really good.
57:09
SPEAKER_02: She could she can play a 16-year-old.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, she played like a 13-year-old in Queen's Gambit.
57:15
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
57:15
SPEAKER_02: Like adopt her and then go talk to her.
57:17
SPEAKER_02: Her casting.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: Go talk to her manager.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: Make it happen.
57:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, I will be sure to document my big British excursion.
57:28
SPEAKER_02: I can't wait.
57:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, you document your pool time and your floaties.
57:33
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, you're not gonna get much from me other than just chilling in the desert.
57:37
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be thriving.
57:38
SPEAKER_02: We cannot wait until season four.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: Please send us your recommendations.
57:43
SPEAKER_02: We still have some big ones.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: We do.
57:45
SPEAKER_02: We like are very intentionally not just shoving all the best ones up front.
57:50
SPEAKER_02: We're trying to trickle them throughout.
57:51
SPEAKER_02: So we've we still have some big ones.
57:53
SPEAKER_02: We still have Thomas Cromwell.
57:54
SPEAKER_02: We haven't talked about.
57:55
SPEAKER_02: We haven't still a lot of tutor stuff coming in.
57:58
SPEAKER_02: More tutors.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
57:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh Elizabeth, any final words?
58:04
SPEAKER_01: Not until season four, everyone.