Latest / Discovering Bitcoin / Discovering Bitcoin with Haza

Transcript

Discovering Bitcoin with Haza · Discovering Bitcoin

0:01
I see the world through an entirely different lens.
0:06
It doesn't just give you confidence, but it gives you
0:08
hope. Take like we're squandering our
0:12
energy, our life force. So Bitcoin is changing that.
0:16
For me, it's like it's healing. Energy.
0:20
It gives you a kind of. Of a stand.
0:24
Feeling right? Deep and deep and deep in the
0:30
immortal. Works of the doors the time.
0:33
To hesitate us through discovery.
1:00
Hazar, what's going on, man? DJ how are you buddy?
1:04
Yeah, good. It's, it is Hazar, right?
1:06
I pronounce that correctly. Yeah, I hazar like laser or
1:10
Taser. OK, OK.
1:13
Yeah, yeah. Everyone says Hazard.
1:15
I sort of get, yeah, I can't do anything pretty much.
1:18
It's the Australian pronunciation, maybe.
1:21
Yeah, what? Yeah, exactly.
1:23
Haza not like. Not like Shazza or Dazza.
1:25
It's Gazza. Yeah, exactly.
1:28
Yeah, yeah, fair enough, Fair enough.
1:32
And it's the, it's the Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas you got,
1:38
you got Johnny Depp and you're, yeah, Hunter.
1:40
S Hunter, S Thompson, yeah. Mr. Thompson Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:44
It's a good shower. Have you ever read his September
1:49
11? He wrote like a little a short,
1:55
sort of like an opinion piece, I guess, an op-ed, which is
2:00
published in ESPN. And it is probably one of the
2:07
most prophetic things I've ever read.
2:11
Yeah, right. Well, I don't know, but yeah,
2:15
like if you if you look it up on YouTube, he basically makes the
2:20
point. He kind of extracts out the
2:22
whole thing, like, OK, here we go.
2:24
Like we're going to go to war now, you know, and we'll stay at
2:29
war with some mysterious enemy for the rest of our lives.
2:31
That's one of the one of the lines in the in the in the
2:36
essay. And then he literally singles
2:39
out like Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, maybe all three at
2:44
once. There'll be national security
2:47
emergencies, will clamp down hard, blah, blah, blah blah,
2:50
blah. It was like the one of the most
2:52
prophetic things. It was published, I'm pretty
2:54
sure a few days after the the event.
2:59
Some. People are, Well, yeah, yeah,
3:03
for sure. Anyway, we're not here to talk
3:05
about that. How did you discover Bitcoin?
3:11
It's an interesting, interesting question.
3:13
So actually technically I've had several touch points with Bitcam
3:18
Bitcoins spread out over many, many years.
3:20
First, I remember seeing it, and it's probably a bit cliche, but
3:22
I first remember seeing it around 2011.
3:25
I used to religiously scroll through Slashdot and I was a bit
3:29
of a, I'm a computer engineer, so it was always on those sort
3:33
of websites and there was always a bit of a pirate back in the
3:36
day as well. I'm spending my time on Pirate
3:39
Bay and Easy TV. You know, I just remember seeing
3:41
this donation link on the bottom paying Bitcoin Anyway, that
3:46
that's sort of my, my claim to frame way back in the day.
3:49
I reckon that was 2011 because we moved into our property and
3:53
we live on a farm now in 2012. And it was in the old, the old
3:56
house that I remember that. But awesome.
3:59
Yeah, I suppose. Did you ignore it?
4:01
You saw it and you ignored it. Saw it and just went OK, I just
4:05
didn't didn't really under didn't really give it any any
4:08
thought or didn't give it any didn't look into it at all.
4:10
I just like just remember the logo thinking OK, be kind.
4:13
That's that's interesting. Yeah, didn't, didn't really get
4:16
into it at all. So that would have been a, a, a
4:19
life changing, I mean, has been a lot of changing already, but
4:22
would have been much, much more life changing had a maybe looked
4:25
into a bit, but probably back then didn't have the the
4:28
wherewithal to to really, you know, jump into that sort of
4:32
anyway, so. Like you say, you say that or if
4:36
coulda woulda shoulda, you know, like how many people have done
4:39
that? I mean, the, the, the amount of
4:41
hurdles and hoops you would have had to have jumped over and
4:44
through to retain. Oh, for sure.
4:47
And even if you'd have gotten them from a faucet, like the
4:50
amount of, I don't know, I, I just don't think there's very
4:55
few people that, you know, got in say at that time that
5:00
actually respected or fully grokked what the heck that they
5:04
were just like doing, you know? Unless they forgot about them
5:08
and like, yeah, that too. Like sitting on an old hard
5:11
drive or something like that. Yeah, I'm a bit of, I'm a bit of
5:14
a hoarder. So I've actually got a lot of my
5:16
old hard drives and stuff. So from way back in the day.
5:20
So yeah, much to my wife's disgust.
5:25
Yeah, but like there could be something on there, man that you
5:28
just. Yeah.
5:28
No, no, definitely. Yeah.
5:30
I mean, there's, there's probably a lot of other
5:31
interesting things on there, but definitely no big fun,
5:34
unfortunately. So, yeah, that that's, that was
5:39
sort of back in 2011. But I suppose the one thing like
5:43
before I even got to Bitcoin, like growing up, I'd always had
5:46
a bit of a fascination with the Internet from when we first got
5:49
like a 28.8 K modem in the mid 90s.
5:52
You could search for things. I used to spend a lot of time at
5:54
the library when I was a kid and you know, just fascinated me
6:00
online on computer was all over Napster downloading any metal
6:03
music that I could get my hands on.
6:05
After that and prior to the MP3 days, I I had a a good
6:09
accumulated library of real player files.
6:11
Some people might or might not. Oh, you had a winamp like.
6:14
Yeah, Winamp, Winamp. Yeah, and.
6:16
What kind of skin did you have? I think it was like a like a
6:20
Tron, like kind of a, I can't remember exactly.
6:24
Like I had a few different ones, but it was like a red and red
6:26
and black and like a lasers and that type of thing.
6:29
Yeah, yeah. Nice.
6:30
Yeah. But OK, so wait a SEC, but
6:33
you're downloading metal. What kind of metal were you
6:35
downloading? So I was like a like Metallica,
6:39
Pantera, Sepp, Wichura, yeah, some of those that, that sort of
6:44
old school sort of stuff. And then, you know, a little bit
6:47
later got into like your Corn and your Tulle and Limp Bizkit
6:50
and that sort of stuff as well. And now I pretty much now I
6:54
really listen to a sort of hardcore now.
6:56
Lots of really good Aussie hardcore bands actually.
6:58
Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, there's one out of
7:00
Perth. Make them suffer.
7:02
They're they're probably one of my favourites.
7:04
Yeah, I can see. Have you heard of a band called
7:07
Bleed From Within? No, I don't think I have.
7:10
OK, we'll disregard that question then.
7:14
Well, I'm just wondering if they're, if they're called
7:15
hardcore. I don't, I don't know, like my
7:17
heart. My hardcore references are like,
7:20
you know, 90s Black Flag and oh. Yeah, yeah.
7:23
Old school. Yeah.
7:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
7:28
Yeah, but I suppose with music, like my, my sort of passion is
7:32
music, music and and seeing live bands, seeing live music all
7:36
over the place, lots of different festivals and that
7:39
sort of stuff. But yeah, sorry, sort of leading
7:41
up to that, I was a, I was a massive part of all sorts of
7:44
different things. Anything you've got my hands on.
7:47
Rage Against the Machine probably is one of the other big
7:49
ones that have a massive impact on me, particularly around my
7:53
world view. At the time, I didn't really
7:55
know, you know, they were sort of very much instrumental in
7:58
that Occupy Wall Street after the GFCI, just I had no, no
8:02
concept or no context of, of what they were even.
8:05
I remember them, you know, playing on the, on the stairs of
8:08
Wall Street, you know, shutting it down and all the stuff and
8:12
thinking, Oh yeah, that's fucking hardcore.
8:13
That's that's awesome. But.
8:15
Too bad they sound really soy during COVID though, yeah?
8:18
Yeah, I know it's. Kind of tainted him for me a
8:20
little bit. You know, Tom Morello just gets
8:23
up on his hobby horse and it's like, just play the same riff
8:27
but like at a different tempo again, dude, like.
8:29
Honestly, yeah. Yeah.
8:32
F# to E. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
8:35
So I suppose you have that early anti establishment streak sort
8:39
of later, you know, connected I suppose with Bitcoin a little
8:42
bit with that, you know, self sovereign, you know, fuck the
8:46
government, fuck the, you know, that that's the sort of stuff
8:49
that I've sort of been listening to in music for years and years.
8:53
And then yeah, after that, Fast forward to like early 2000s, I
8:56
was living in a in Melbourne, going to uni Melbourne.
8:58
I was living in a share house with a couple of mates.
9:02
We had a couple of different share houses, but we used to
9:05
spend countless hours online, you know, usually carting again,
9:09
most forms of entertainment and spending a lot of unhealthy time
9:12
on IRC. We, we typical computer nerds,
9:17
you know, all studying computer engineering.
9:20
And we used to have this, this hobby on the weekend where we go
9:22
to the computer markets and stuff and we'd, you know, buy
9:25
the the latest CPUs setups and over clock the shit out of them
9:28
to see what we could squeeze out of them in terms of performance.
9:31
And the best performance metric we were using was served a bit
9:35
of a dual purpose for, for our pirating was then to encode a 4
9:39
1/2 gig DVD down to a 700 Meg Divx file that would fit onto
9:44
ACD. And we'd measure, we'd measure
9:46
how long each, each of our computers would actually take
9:48
to, to do that. So we're a little bit instead
9:51
of, you know, some kids or some some young people, you know,
9:54
race cars and see how fast they go.
9:56
We were racing out computers so. That's super nerdy, man.
10:00
Yeah, I know. Dig it.
10:01
Yeah, tell me about it. That's awesome.
10:04
I had a question that formulated in my mind about the so you're
10:11
having like LAN parties and stuff as well.
10:14
Yeah, we had the whole house basically covered in, yeah,
10:17
Ethernet cables. And yeah, that was, that was
10:20
our, that was what we did when we were at uni kids.
10:23
These days I don't understand any of this stuff man.
10:25
I know, man, I know, I know. Used to drink a lot of beer and
10:29
we used to play lamb parties and we did all the things as well.
10:32
So yeah, that was was fun times for those couple of years we
10:36
were down there. But I just think, yeah, looking
10:37
back like we would have, I believe anyway, stress testing
10:42
and hardware, I reckon we definitely would have been
10:44
involved in mining. Had to have been 10 years later.
10:47
I'll just look back at that and go back like that was.
10:50
Yeah, right. Yeah, you kind of what?
10:55
We were about 10 years too early.
10:56
Yeah, like you're aging out just at that point when you kind of
11:00
were being pulled in other directions.
11:03
Yeah. Interesting, Interesting.
11:06
Yeah. Because, I mean, it's hard to.
11:07
I sometimes do look at like a younger kids say in their 20s or
11:14
whatever, and you're like, man, you have no clue just how like
11:21
if you've discovered Bitcoin at this point in your life and you
11:24
like down the rabbit hole and you, you're grokking it and
11:27
everything. I mean, you, you, you're, you're
11:30
good. You know, you're good.
11:35
Yeah. You like, don't fuck it up,
11:37
basically. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
11:41
So then yeah, like after that we actually bought a property with
11:46
my girlfriend at the time, now wife.
11:48
We still live out today. We was out in the middle of
11:51
nowhere, a bit of a distance. The newest town couldn't really
11:54
get any form of Internet service.
11:56
So like 4G was the only thing that would somewhat work, but it
11:59
wasn't really reliable. So basically my Internet days
12:01
of, you know, being online quite regularly sort of put on hold
12:05
for about 5 years. And while we worked outside and,
12:09
you know, we got married at home and had some had some cracker
12:11
parties out here, done a lot of landscaping and stuff.
12:14
But yeah, I sort of got back involved.
12:16
We got the NBN and on fixed wireless around 2017.
12:20
And and that was, you know, at a time where crypto was obviously
12:24
in, in, in Bitcoin was, it was, you know, in its in its infancy
12:27
stages of that sort of bull run. And I remember reading about
12:32
XRPI, think it was Ripple. And you know, I'd had at that
12:35
point in time, I've had no background at all in, you know,
12:38
any type of investing or trading.
12:40
I had some spare savings aside. I thought, you know, if I could,
12:44
I think I've read in the newspaper, if I could put like,
12:46
maybe, you know, 5 grand in and double it, Geez, that'd be good.
12:48
I was going to, you know, it's hard to work out though, what to
12:52
do because no one really that that I knew was involved in it
12:55
whatsoever. And even like back then,
12:57
gambling apps and stuff as well, like that, sort of, they weren't
13:00
as pronounced as what they are these days.
13:01
I don't think. So.
13:04
Yeah, at at that point in time, end of 2017, actually started a
13:09
coin spot account and they had a, an instigated $1000 maximum
13:13
deposit limit on new accounts at that time.
13:16
Because I think they they really realized that the market was
13:19
like so overheated. And and thank God they did that
13:22
in hindsight, because I probably would have, you know, wrecked
13:25
myself a hell of a lot more than what I did.
13:27
But Bitcoin was pretty much at all time highs like literally at
13:30
the time that I was buying in, you know, but at that point in
13:33
time, you know, you're just riding that, you know, newbie
13:36
euphoria wave of, you know, you're one of the, you know,
13:39
you're basically the exit liquidity for everyone getting
13:41
out. But you think you're a genius.
13:44
Exactly, yeah, and you're telling everyone about it
13:47
because you're watching this like number go up on your
13:49
screen. You're like, holy shit.
13:50
Like this is incredible. So yeah, the the day I bought
13:54
actually looked back at it earlier in preparation like the
13:56
day that I bought my first chunk of Bitcoin first SAT was on
14:00
December 17, which is literally the same day that it might made
14:04
the all time high there you. Go oh.
14:07
My goodness, yeah. On top of that, though, like,
14:10
you know, retail bias, retail unit bias and sort of well and
14:13
truly set in, you know, went through the the trials and
14:16
tribulations of buying a number of other, you know, scam coins,
14:19
ship coins. I remember one of the trades
14:22
that really got me hooked. I bought I think it was $200
14:25
worth of Tron. I think like 2 hours later it
14:27
was like $500. I just remember thinking, what
14:30
now is this? Like this is unbelievable.
14:33
But being a classic noob held it all the way back down again.
14:38
So unfortunately got pretty much rinsed, you know, in dollar cost
14:42
averaging, going into ship coins in in that time and watching my
14:46
account pretty much go down by about 95% of its Fiat value,
14:49
which was pretty sobering. It was, it was massive.
14:54
Yeah. So I mean, it was down.
14:56
It wasn't. It was a meaningful amount of
14:58
money. I was super pissed off at myself
15:00
before and I just did. You tell the wife.
15:03
I told her yeah, like she knew. I, I, I remember feeling at the
15:07
time, like when I was depositing into the exchange, like just
15:11
something didn't feel right. There was like this little voice
15:13
that was like sitting in the back of my mind like, but that
15:16
was just completely overthrown by my ego.
15:18
Like, that's something that I've sort of been working on.
15:20
I. Think that little voice is like
15:22
there's a balance between the ego just going yeah, fuck it, do
15:25
it. Like, just just just pump your
15:27
bags. And then that little voice who
15:28
can sometimes come across as a bit of a pussy and just be like,
15:31
listen, like, you shouldn't be doing this.
15:34
I don't know exactly or whatever.
15:35
And you're just like, shut the fuck up, man.
15:37
I'm cool. Yeah.
15:38
This thing's ripped 500% in the last two hours.
15:41
It's the sure thing. Don't worry about it.
15:43
Exactly. Exactly.
15:44
So that that little voice has popped up a number of times over
15:47
the years and I listen to it a lot more than what I used to.
15:50
Which which is, yeah, that's something I've been working on
15:53
for the last little while. But so, yeah, at that point in
15:56
time, like got rinsed and this has probably started 20/20/18,
16:02
probably around February, you know, sort of have, I'm a little
16:08
bit stubborn in that regard that I just thought, no, this, this
16:11
isn't going to get the better of me.
16:12
I've joined a few different groups on, on Facebook and
16:15
stuff, few different crypto groups and, and sort of at that
16:18
point worked out that I was going to be a trader.
16:22
That seemed to be the most logical or data-driven method to
16:25
try and recruit what I've, what I've lost.
16:28
So I spent a large amount of time practising and reading all
16:31
sorts of technical analysis. And, you know, Elliott waves
16:34
jump straight into the deep end with all these different, you
16:37
know, trading methodologies, which are basically, you know, a
16:40
lot of people say they're they're horoscopes for men when
16:43
you when you paint a chart. So, yeah, I'm not sure if it's
16:46
just stubbornness or stupidity would be the word to describe
16:49
that at the time, But so the end of so I did that for about
16:53
probably, you know, six months just sort of learning and just
16:56
playing with sort of supply money and that.
16:57
And then at the end of 2018, I, I decided to jump back in.
17:02
I remember being on the side in my swag at the front of Meredith
17:05
Music Festival in 2018, buying Bitcoin and and yeah, still
17:09
buying some shoot coins, but buying more Bitcoin than shoot
17:11
coins. And that was just here at the
17:13
music festival. Meredith, you know that was
17:16
that. That's the sister Festival of
17:17
Falls, right? It's, no, it's Meredith and they
17:20
have Golden plains as well. The Meredith is like the real
17:23
big one and then the the smaller one is Golden Plains.
17:26
It's been, it's been actually in Meredith, which is sort of
17:28
halfway between Ballarat and Geelong.
17:30
Yeah, right on, right. And that that was literally at a
17:33
time where Bitcoin like had just puked 50% from like 6K down to
17:39
3.2 K. And everyone was just, you know,
17:41
at the time, like crypto Twitter was just, it's all over again.
17:45
It's all over. But yeah, I'd had had a few
17:48
substances that weekend and I had some extra courage and and
17:51
looking back like it was, you know, certainly the bottom of
17:54
the market and things had definitely improved from that.
17:56
So blood in the streets you're buying?
17:58
Yeah. I just stand like, you know,
18:01
it's one of those festivals that you you go to and it recharges
18:05
your soul. And yeah, you it's, I've had a
18:07
lot of fun there over the years. Well, I mean the fact that you
18:10
had a computer, I presume it was a computer, or were you doing it
18:13
on your phone? I was doing it on my.
18:15
Phone. Yeah.
18:16
OK. I was saying yeah, yeah.
18:17
Well, I mean, that's nuts though.
18:19
Like I'll just just, you know, just in between sets, just try
18:22
and make it. Oh.
18:23
Yeah. And all through the weekend too.
18:25
It wasn't just like like just dollar cost averaging and like
18:27
just continually going on. Now we've got to.
18:29
I've got to get more. I've got to get more.
18:31
But. So then, yeah, probably over the
18:34
next two to three years, like I was working ridiculous hours in
18:38
my job. I'm still trying to keep tabs
18:39
on, you know, trading. And I certainly had some wins,
18:43
but I had some, you know, ridiculously large losses too.
18:45
And most of that was due to, you know, overconfidence, breaking
18:48
rules, not setting stop losses and not listening to that little
18:51
voice. And in doing so, like, it really
18:53
did push me down a path to trying to learn a lot more about
18:56
myself. So if you've done it before,
18:59
it's a, it's a pretty difficult process to audit yourself and
19:03
not just look at the things that you did wrong, but also why you
19:06
start. You can start second guessing
19:08
almost every decision that you make.
19:11
And then, yeah, I had a trader mate of mine, he went right down
19:14
the psychology rabbit hole, started researching Myers Briggs
19:17
and different things and post all sorts of fascinating
19:19
discoveries that he'd had into the community that I was in.
19:24
And yeah, at the same time in my job, our company was just
19:27
started putting some money into like doing some, some disk
19:30
profiling of like all the different, you know, senior
19:33
leaders within the business. So disk is like very similar to
19:36
Myers Briggs. It's disk stands for dominance,
19:39
influence, steadiness and, and consciousness.
19:43
And yeah, gone down a bit of a rabbit hole on, on the Myers
19:45
Briggs stuff as well since. So, so they're, they're probably
19:49
the first two lot of the bits. You know, first when I, when I
19:52
recognized it and then first bought it and then I still
19:55
hadn't really understood what Bitcoin was.
19:59
So in 2021 when I first heard the, the sale of Breedlove
20:04
series, that's sort of the, the thing that really got me across
20:08
the line to go, what the hell is have I, what have I been doing?
20:12
Like that was I sort of listened to that.
20:13
I think it was just after Bitcoin topped in 21.
20:17
So I think it was April 21 had that massive pull back from like
20:20
54,000 down to 30,000. And at the time, you know, I
20:24
was. You know, in, in a bit of
20:26
Bitcoin, but also in, in a lot of shit coins.
20:29
So lick my wounds over the last over the next couple of weeks
20:32
had some long service leaves that I've that I took.
20:35
So I was in the garden for a fair while, like pruning trees
20:38
in the middle of winter. And I'm trying to get my daily
20:40
son listening to that sailor Breedlove series.
20:43
Like as soon as it finished, I would turn it back on again and
20:45
it would just, it was just incredible.
20:48
But the penny finally dropped and realized that, you know, I'd
20:51
had a lot more to to read and learn up until that point.
20:54
I'd pretty much just, you know, traded Bitcoin as just another
20:57
asset to trade for Fiat rather than, you know, a bit of money
21:01
than Fiat, so. Yeah, yeah, that's sailor
21:05
series. You know, that was kind of at
21:08
the start of when Breedlove launched the Waters Money show.
21:11
And I, I remember I was deep into like macro around that time
21:19
as well. And, you know, I found it
21:23
intellectually stimulating, like macro and I would watch real
21:26
Vision and yeah, Powell with Mr. Powell, Rug Powell.
21:30
And, you know, like, he, he, he, I don't know whatever, but he,
21:35
he didn't, he, I think he did one of the first interviews with
21:38
Sailor. Yeah.
21:40
And I was subscriber to real Vision, you know, trying to get
21:44
the, get the inside. I was not trading at all.
21:47
Like I by that point, I was kind of like Bitcoin's the thing.
21:50
But I still find this fascinating.
21:53
And he was talking about like friction and, you know, the the
22:00
invention of the wheel and then water and then aircrafts and
22:03
then spaceships and then converting stones to to concrete
22:09
to steal. And like, it was just the
22:13
analogies that he used to describe, I guess technological
22:19
advances and then applying that framework or that POV to
22:23
Bitcoin. Yeah, completely just mind
22:27
blowing and just being like, shit.
22:29
Yeah. Right.
22:30
OK. You know.
22:33
Yeah. That that was a pretty you know,
22:35
I actually write the the booth theories.
22:38
Yeah. Yeah.
22:39
Better than the sailor series in that in that category.
22:43
Yeah. I thought, I thought Jeff
22:45
Booths. I like, I like his calm
22:48
equanimity, his demeanor. It's it's it's yeah.
22:52
It's pleasant compared to compared to Sailors, anyway,
22:58
Yeah. So you're listening to the
23:00
Sailor series and you've got it on repeat.
23:02
It basically like this is like 10 I think, maybe 11-12
23:06
episodes, probably even more than that, aren't I?
23:08
Think there's 20, but yeah, I think it started with around, I
23:10
think it started with around yeah, 9:50 to 12:00.
23:15
I think they added more over the the non last number of years as
23:18
well so. Interesting.
23:19
Yeah. You just had that on loop and
23:21
repeat and he was trying to, yeah.
23:22
And just, it just made so much sense at the time.
23:27
But yeah, I'll spell you, you, you brought up Rod Powell.
23:30
There's one thing that I had to, to thank him for.
23:32
It was the, the word debasement. I'd really never, until I'd
23:38
heard him speak about debasement on a few of his videos.
23:41
I just had no concept of what he what debasement even was.
23:46
And yeah, I, I didn't really understand.
23:47
I don't come from a financial background and there's sort of
23:49
no one in my family or, you know, no friends or anything
23:51
that sort of had any, any inkling of that.
23:53
So that was just a totally foreign concept to to me at the
23:58
time. And once you sort of start
24:00
thinking about it and you're like, oh shit, that that's not
24:04
how I thought things worked. It it makes a massive, you know,
24:07
you can do a A180 like fairly quickly soon afterwards.
24:11
Yeah, grokking, grokking inflation.
24:14
Is it? It's like once you see it, you
24:16
can't Unsee it. Once you once you fully
24:19
comprehend what it is, you know, which is effectively like it's a
24:23
stealth tax, Yeah. It's a hidden tax, yeah.
24:27
Yeah, it, it's, it's awful, it's egregious, it's evil.
24:31
And then you said, you know, you didn't really have any family
24:34
members or friends to kind of bounce these ideas around.
24:38
And then you, it gets quite isolating in that 'cause I'm
24:41
the, it's very similar. Like I'm like you, you're
24:43
learning all these things and thank goodness for, you know,
24:48
Bitcoin Twitter basically around that, you know, like you can
24:52
kind of get this stuff out a little bit or at least, you
24:54
know, but then you worry if you're in an echo chamber.
24:57
But yeah, like, I mean, God damn it.
24:58
Family gatherings of chats with friends when you're trying to,
25:02
you know, get across this new information that you've just
25:05
received about the basement. You know, it's, it's it's like
25:08
you, you're isolated, basically. Yeah.
25:11
And. Your and your friends and family
25:13
look at you like you've got 2 heads or something like.
25:16
You're getting stolen from man. You don't even know it.
25:19
Yeah, exactly. Literally someone coming into
25:22
your house every year stealing 2% as Booth says yeah, yeah, and
25:27
you don't notice it until you have no house left.
25:30
Yeah. Yeah, interesting.
25:33
So you're putting all these pieces of the puzzle together
25:35
and because of your computer engineering background as well,
25:39
is this resonating even harder? So you're now putting the pieces
25:44
of the financial, the economics pieces of the puzzle.
25:47
Yeah, but I'm, I'm still at this point fairly lost.
25:50
Like I know that Bitcoin is like it, but at the same time, like I
25:55
don't understand any macro. So then I sort of went down a
25:58
bit of a journey of like trying to find as much as I could about
26:01
macro, like, you know, listening to anything that that Lynn Alden
26:04
put out. And we're still listening to
26:07
quite a bit that Raoul Powell put out.
26:08
Because I think some of the information that he, yeah, he
26:10
was, he turned into a massive chic on, I think he still is a
26:12
massive chic on it. But some of his macro stuff.
26:16
And I think he teamed up with trying to think of the guy's
26:18
name that he ended up leaving him.
26:21
But there's a guy that I think his name is Julian Patel at the
26:23
moment. He's quite good on macro I think
26:25
as well. And you know, liquidity cycles
26:27
and business cycles and and stuff as well, so.
26:30
I think you got to spit out the bone, you know, take what works,
26:33
leave what doesn't with that stuff.
26:34
Like, so he is a shit coiner and a scammer, but he introduced me
26:38
to folks like Graham Williams, who I think is an incredible
26:42
interviewer, irrespective of what he's talking about.
26:44
Yeah, he's got a sports podcast, which I haven't listened to in a
26:47
little while. Oh, really?
26:49
They talk about the business side of sport and, yeah, super
26:54
fascinating. But Grant Williams, he's
26:55
fantastic, you know, and then there's Dan Tapiero and guys
26:59
like that. So I mean, you know, yeah.
27:01
And, and, and as you say, like he introduces you to the concept
27:04
of debasement. The, the times that he does talk
27:08
about Bitcoin, you know, you can see that he kind of gets at
27:12
least 80% of it. It's just that 20% of like when
27:16
we can tokenize everything and all of this stuff.
27:18
But I mean, also that's just him.
27:20
So like, whatever, like I, I, I don't like that whole.
27:25
I'm slowly coming around to not aligning with the notion of
27:30
being like, like a, a Bitcoin maximalism, you know, because
27:35
there's this kind of, there's this school of thought where you
27:39
kind of got to, you've got to be in the world, not of the world,
27:42
you know, and identifying yourself as a Bitcoiner can be a
27:46
little bit, I mean, it is a thing, but it shouldn't be the
27:51
way that you carry yourself, you know, around.
27:54
And therefore, if anyone that doesn't align with being a
27:57
bitcoiner is automatically a shit corner.
28:00
And it's like, no, no, they're just on the journey and they're
28:02
just doing the thing and. That's that's exactly how I say
28:05
it you. Can be hostile and completely
28:07
discourage them, or you can just say, look, yeah, I'm sorry, Just
28:14
going off a tangent. I was introduced to a group of
28:16
people the other day, met them for the first time.
28:20
We're talking about something completely different to Bitcoin,
28:23
but one of the guys was like, Oh, I'm thinking about
28:25
introducing this, this, this part of the curriculum to talk
28:30
about like to help the his students as a teacher understand
28:35
kind of new technologies. And so he rattled off like AI.
28:39
And then I was thinking maybe talking about blockchain and
28:42
stuff like that. And I just got triggered and I
28:44
was like, well, it's not, it's not blockchain, man.
28:47
And I like it went out too hard. And I realised I was like, I I
28:50
really need to pull this back because I'm embarrassing myself
28:53
here and this is not the right forum for this, for this
28:56
behaviour. You know, I was like, yeah,
28:59
anyway, but yeah. So it's not blockchain.
29:01
You if you, if you want to learn about, you know, Bitcoin and
29:04
distributed ledgers, like happy to talk to you.
29:06
But yeah, anyway, I was like, oh shit, I've, I've shit the bad
29:10
here, yeah. Yeah.
29:13
Crept out of there quickly There's.
29:16
Nothing around that. That's right.
29:18
There's not too many people that can actually have got that sort
29:21
of situational awareness to be able to do that though, either.
29:24
So props to you man. Yeah, that's it's sometimes
29:28
hyper situationally where, where you're actually discouraged from
29:31
saying anything at all just in case you put your foot in it
29:34
like I did. Yeah, we're learning, we're
29:37
growing here. You know we're spiraling upwards
29:39
for sure break just to say, if you're enjoying the show and
29:44
digging what you hear, please consider supporting discovering
29:47
Bitcoin by shooting, boosting, sending or zapping the show.
29:51
Some stats. If you're listening via a
29:53
podcasting 2 point O app such as Fountain Pod Verse or Breeze,
29:57
it's easier done than said. All you got to do is tap the
30:01
boost button or set an amount of stats to stream per minute while
30:05
you're listening. Alternatively, if you want to
30:07
ZAP me direct via a lightning address, please send zaps and
30:11
sats or zaps of sats in support of the show to Discovering
30:16
Bitcoin at primal.net. Thank you for listening and
30:21
thank you for your support. How has discovering Bitcoin
30:25
changed you? So I've always been pretty much
30:32
a long term planner. That's just that's just my
30:35
personality type. I suppose.
30:37
So long the low time frame sort of preference as a person, it's
30:42
always sort of been ingrained. Probably the only thing it has
30:44
done is probably made that even further.
30:46
What was my preference? But you know, being we've sort
30:49
of spoke about this prior to, to jumping on like being an INFJ
30:54
Myers Briggs. I've historically like lived,
30:57
lived in a bit of the echo chamber in my own head.
31:01
Like a lot. I've I've found that that's like
31:03
a trade of a lot of different INFJ that I've sort of contacted
31:07
over the years and they've been in touch with.
31:11
So, yeah, always thinking about possibilities now that I
31:15
understand that a lot better, like indirectly through, you
31:19
know, the discovery because I try and be present as much as
31:21
possible now. So I mean, Bitcoin in my life
31:25
has been a total pressure reducer.
31:28
It's been a beacon of truth. You know, when you're not
31:32
frantically trying to make ends meet at the end of each week,
31:35
you know, working a job that you hate, you know, trying to do
31:38
everything for the family, trying to run your kids around
31:40
the sport mind, you know, having having the conviction that you
31:44
understand what you own. And yeah, you've put in the
31:47
proof of work to fully understand it.
31:49
It gives you that quiet confidence that no matter what,
31:53
things are going to be OK. That's cool.
31:57
So it allows you to take because I was on that brand.
32:02
Well, I was not on it. I hosted it.
32:05
I had Brandon Quiddimon and he was talking about Myers Briggs
32:09
and stuff like that. So I kind of went down that
32:10
route a little bit and and did the test just before I was
32:15
chatting to him and yeah, got on FJ and I think I even mentioned
32:18
it on on the pod. You did, yeah.
32:21
And then you, you and I have been just going backwards and
32:23
forwards and you sent me a document and stuff.
32:25
And it's, it's been like super curious.
32:27
And I thought, well, maybe that was a bit of a fluke the first
32:30
time. So I did it like a second time
32:33
and got the same result, which was, which was interesting.
32:36
And I don't want to wax lyrical about all that, but that notion
32:39
of playing different scenarios in your head, you're kind of
32:45
living in the future a little bit.
32:48
You're, you're, you're considering all the options,
32:51
you're trying to make plans and God's laughing at you the whole
32:54
time. And, and that's the thing.
32:57
But when you ground yourself within, I guess Bitcoin or you
33:04
have Bitcoin in your pocket, so to speak, you mentioned the
33:09
pressure reducer. It's almost like you can then
33:13
more confidently seek out some of those options that you're
33:16
playing out in your head. You know what I'm saying?
33:18
Yeah, it's. It's like a like a noise
33:21
reducer. Like it's like, you know, going
33:23
through life and you know, you've got the radio up and it's
33:25
you know, everything's sort of and it's just like you just turn
33:27
the radio down a little bit and you can sort of now hear
33:30
correctly or I can see correctly.
33:32
And it's just, it takes a little noise think and like it gives
33:36
you that. It's just a quiet confidence.
33:38
I think that you know, things are going to be OK.
33:42
Because you tend to. I'll speak for himself.
33:44
But like that, that's second guessing.
33:46
Yes. You know, and if someone will
33:49
plant a seed of doubt and and they may not meaningful.
33:52
I I find a lot of people go around.
33:56
I don't know if you've ever do you ever like there's a movie
33:59
called Walk hard, Dewey Cox story and it's about Johnny
34:03
Cash. It's kind of like a take off of
34:05
that. It's it's John C Reilly and
34:08
there's like this trope in the at the start of the film where
34:11
like he's trying to be a famous country musician and his first
34:15
wife just is completely negative.
34:17
And she's like, you're never going to make it.
34:18
You're never going to make it. And then he ends up becoming
34:20
like a superstar country music singer.
34:23
And the whole time throughout the film, she's like, you're
34:25
never going to make it. There's people that if you come
34:27
up with certain ideas or concepts, they'll just
34:32
immediately take the negative of, of, of that.
34:36
And you don't need that. Like, I mean, yeah, you want to
34:39
be kind of all right, Just like, you know, think about it, 'cause
34:43
I guess you can tend to fly off into being a dreamer.
34:47
Yeah, but you still need to grounded in in reality and have
34:50
a, a strategy for execution. But that negativity straight off
34:57
the bat that a lot of people tend to, you know, give you can
35:03
like plant that seed of doubt such that you wouldn't even
35:07
pursue that thing unless you're just a stubborn mule and and and
35:12
you're just like, fuck it, I'm going to do it anyway.
35:14
And just because I want to because it's fun or whatever.
35:20
Like getting that getting that speed of doubt is getting
35:24
overcoming that is difficult. But when you have like a real
35:29
firm foundation from which to stand on you, you, you can
35:34
actually be a lot more confident in experimentation, I guess.
35:38
Yeah, yeah, 100% and, and finding really, you know, what,
35:42
what you want to do in life. Yeah.
35:47
I mean, five years ago, I look back five years ago, there was
35:51
some fairly significant changes were going in on in my life.
35:55
I was working for for a family business which was quite
35:57
demanding, very, very stressful most days.
36:00
And it sort of meant that I had to be available like 24/7.
36:02
I had to put in huge hours to get the job done.
36:05
I was kind of lucky though that I enjoyed the work that I did.
36:09
It was sort of very interesting. No, no, two days were the same.
36:13
Yeah, I think that the company that I was working for that
36:16
decided to sell the business. So I was there for, worked there
36:19
for over 18 years. It's the only real company that
36:22
I ever worked for out of uni. And I, I went through a bit of
36:25
an identity crisis because like I didn't want to work for the
36:28
new owners like that job and that business pretty much
36:32
defined like the largest part of my adult life until that point.
36:36
But it was, I saw it as like an opportunity there too.
36:38
Do I get out, reassess what I wanted in life and I'll look
36:41
back now. That was like a bit of a sliding
36:43
doors moment because it really that all happened just after I'd
36:46
sort of really started diving deep, like specifically into
36:49
Bitcoin. I was listening to to Sailor
36:51
Breedlove. And that was sort of at the same
36:54
time that I was realizing that trading and investing.
36:56
Trading was really not it for me.
36:58
I wasn't enjoying what I was doing.
37:00
I was, you know, up all night trying to, you know, hit the hit
37:03
the different sessions and just yeah, stressing myself out.
37:07
So, yeah, I suppose in in a sense that also gave me like the
37:10
confidence to take that little bit of a leaf of face, get off
37:13
the hamster wheel and and do something that I've always
37:15
wanted to do, which is start my own business and work myself,
37:18
which I've been doing that for the last number of years so.
37:21
That's awesome. And what about the the the, the
37:23
property? You know, like just the time
37:26
allocation to maintain and keep up, keep keep that up, right.
37:32
Yeah, it, it, it's pretty demanding, but it is you have
37:36
now optionality. I mean, particularly, I guess
37:38
we're starting the business, but the, that notion that, you know,
37:42
I can just spend the day in in the yard doing the things,
37:45
cleaning it up, pursuing mending, whatever it is.
37:49
Yeah, without that niggling thing in the back of your mind,
37:52
like, Oh, well, this isn't cash flow positive.
37:54
And you know, like, yeah, yeah, it's because you have that
37:59
thing. And if, if it all just comes
38:01
turns to shit, just sell a little bit.
38:04
I remember I was, I think it was a naughty the night Brisket was
38:08
mentioned that his his daughter. I know it's not my story, but
38:12
like he just mentioned that his daughter had an accident in his
38:14
car or something like that. And he was kind of like, fucking
38:16
hell, whatever. But you know what?
38:18
It's there's a lesson here and I can just like, who cares about
38:21
the car? You know, it's, it's, I'll buy
38:24
another one with the Bitcoin I've got kind of thing.
38:26
And that's the point. It's not about huddling it
38:29
forever into eternity and all the rest of it.
38:31
It's, it's just to live life a little bit better than you used
38:35
to. Yeah, for sure.
38:36
Improving your life as you go along, for sure, yeah.
38:41
So it's had a net positive impact though you would suggest
38:44
and. Yeah, massive.
38:46
And you've come to grips with I don't know that that that INFJ
38:52
personality trait which still still.
38:56
Coming to terms with it. But yeah, like it's one of those
38:59
things that's sort of been always in the back of my mind.
39:01
Like if anything, it allows you to be able to analyse yourself a
39:06
bit more, but that can sometimes be a bit of an oxymoron because
39:09
you can start over analyzing. Like, you know, my brain sort of
39:13
doesn't turn off sometimes when I when it really should.
39:17
So yeah, it's one of those things that can be sometimes
39:20
challenging to have I done that right?
39:22
And, you know, second guess even things after I've done them.
39:25
Did I do that right? How could I have done that
39:27
better? Like that's sort of the person I
39:29
am, so. Yeah.
39:30
So that would you describe like how would you describe an IFINFJ
39:37
person in a nutshell, so. I mean myself, like I'm a pretty
39:42
sort of quiet, shy, sort of fairly reserved until I, you
39:48
know, and very much can be have conviction on something and then
39:51
you can't shut me up. But essentially, like the, the
39:55
one reason I like when I have commonality with people, I find
39:59
it really quite easy to talk to people if I don't have that
40:03
commonality, like talking to, to sort of people that aren't in
40:05
Bitcoin quite a lot and Anna's obsessed with it, It's kind of a
40:08
bit harder to find that common trait.
40:12
And you know, so people can come that they think maybe I'm a
40:15
little bit shy or maybe I'm sort of standoffish, but it's not
40:18
that at all. It's just like I don't know what
40:19
to help. Or like like rude or something.
40:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's not that at all.
40:25
That's that's what I love. Like the, the Bush bashes in
40:28
Australia, I go into those because everyone there is just
40:31
on like exactly the same level and, you know, had some amazing
40:35
conversations. So like, because we live in a
40:38
property like with my my wife and my son, he's only 2 1/2.
40:41
Like we sort of, you know, we both sort of work, we have our
40:44
own businesses, we both work majority from home.
40:46
We do go out and see clients and that sort of stuff around the
40:49
place. But yeah, we don't really tend
40:51
to socialize that much really with too many people.
40:53
So we the one thing about going to the Bush bashes and things
40:58
that I love is like connecting with people and having some some
41:01
conversations that are not, you know, I love my son, I love my
41:05
wife, but you can sort of get a little bit monotonous around
41:07
baby talk and that type of thing.
41:09
And you know, having some sort of grown up conversations around
41:13
different concepts and things like that.
41:15
I just love that love being in that environment.
41:17
So. Yeah, conversations that that
41:19
juice you that and, and, and just bypass all of the fluff we
41:24
had in in from questioning Bitcoin on a couple episodes,
41:30
maybe last episode, I can't remember.
41:32
But we were talking about like how Bitcoin effectively enables
41:35
you to have like to make friends as an adult a lot easier.
41:40
And it's not Bitcoin that's doing that.
41:42
It's just the intellectual pursuit or the stimulation, you
41:46
know, whatever it is it it's just the fact that you can align
41:49
on this current thing or this common thing.
41:51
It's probably a current thing. And and you know, and you don't
41:56
have to just do any preamble. You know, like Whiz, I remember
42:00
at a bit at a Bush bash once said, you know, the cool thing
42:03
about Bitcoin is that you agree on a basically 90% of everything
42:06
and then you can debate the 5% either side.
42:10
And it's really, really cool like that, you know?
42:12
Yeah, for sure. And like there's so many other
42:16
like, like parallel topics. Not parallel, but yeah, topics
42:21
around Bitcoin like, you know, your health and like this sort
42:24
of get drawn in and like, you know, there's some people that
42:27
bring so much more to the table at those events then, you know,
42:31
specifically Bitcoin. They're just, they're
42:34
incredible, incredible humans. I love every single one of them.
42:37
They're my people for sure. Some of the smartest people I
42:41
think I've ever met ever, they're just, and you just can
42:45
learn so much of them And, and sometimes they're not into
42:48
exactly the same thing that you're interested in.
42:51
And, and sometimes they are. And it, that doesn't matter
42:56
because you can learn from them. All these fascinating things.
42:59
I remember Michael Dunworth had this talk, I think one of the
43:02
first Bush bashes I went to about space-time and going
43:07
through wormholes and stuff like that and how Bitcoin and, and
43:11
time locks and things like that was all interrelated.
43:14
And then it was JP had this kind of actually question and was
43:21
trying to elicit some kind of like, I don't know.
43:23
I was like done with was getting the, the physics of the wormhole
43:26
wrong or something like that. And I was just like, this is the
43:30
best thing ever. Like you got 2 orders going head
43:33
to head. Yeah.
43:34
In a in a town hall in Miranda. Like it's.
43:37
Just and, and, and The thing is, everyone's going to benefit
43:40
because they're both so knowledgeable as well.
43:42
Like it's yeah, have having that like that, that banter, but also
43:47
like that, that disagreement around.
43:49
So these would have been amazing to see.
43:51
Yeah, there's nothing like it for sure.
43:53
There's there's nothing like it. Yeah.
43:57
What have you learned about the world, and more importantly,
43:59
what have you learned about yourself since discovering
44:02
Bitcoin? So up until discovering Bitcoin,
44:10
up until like, you know, essentially buying into the
44:12
market, discovering Bitcoin, I had absolutely no idea about
44:15
money. I had no idea about, you know,
44:18
what desirable properties of money are, what inflation is,
44:23
how incentives are shaped by like monetary policy.
44:26
And even to an extent like I hadn't, I hadn't even never been
44:29
exposed nor thought about like investing or, or trading or
44:32
anything whatsoever. So I sort of at that point, you
44:35
know, was, was stuck in the matrix in my one way or another,
44:40
accepting just the things, you know, but the way that things
44:43
were really without stopping to think about them, I just assumed
44:47
that things just rose in value. And that was the value of a
44:52
dollar was, was always a dollar. So I suppose to me like that,
44:57
that monetary side of things is probably the one of the main
45:00
things about inflation, like it's just theft or pretty much
45:07
in disguise as the hidden tax. And it's created by both sides
45:10
of the political spectrum, all includes with the bankers.
45:13
So and like all of this just leads then, you know, where we
45:17
find ourselves sort of today, you know, in a bit of a broken
45:20
moral society. I think so, yeah.
45:25
I suppose myself, I would have learned myself.
45:28
I, I reckon I, I know I've always been, I think way too
45:34
agreeable in the past and just take things at face value really
45:38
without thinking deeper about them.
45:40
So yeah, I think, you know, after discovering Bitcoin, after
45:45
going down, you know, a few different rabbit holes around
45:48
the topics of that sort of been around Bitcoin as well.
45:52
At least I feel somewhat in control of my own sphere now.
45:56
So like, is it better to know or not to know?
45:58
I suppose I'd rather know things than because once you've seen
46:02
things, you can't Unsee them, as you said earlier.
46:05
So, yeah, I suppose the other thing is maybe developing trust
46:16
with people like trust is sort of something now to me just
46:20
because got to be earned rather than just given.
46:24
That's something that sort of resonates with me.
46:26
And I think, you know, you hear that sort of adage or the the
46:30
discussion around don't trust verified.
46:33
But there is that like trust has to be answered, that proof of
46:35
work you have to. And you know, even people with
46:39
the Bush bashes and that sort of stuff, I found my first Bush
46:41
bash I went to was quite a little bit clicky.
46:45
And you know, there's like a group over there and you sort of
46:47
want to go and talk to them and you're like, how are they going
46:49
to perceive me? How, how, how, how is that going
46:52
to go? And once they see you around a
46:53
few times, like at those Bushwatchers, like people are
46:55
absolutely lovely. They were lovely from this date
46:58
on as well. Maybe I was just overthinking
47:00
things in my head. Yeah, no, I think that's just
47:02
the introvert trait on it. Humans are clicky and bitcoiners
47:07
are no different. But if you I find that if you do
47:11
have just just get over that, right?
47:15
Yeah, Yeah. And just go and sit down.
47:17
I mean, I've sat down at some tables with some Bitcoiners and
47:20
listened in and just like was like, yeah, this is not my jam,
47:24
Not not for me. Don't know what you're talking
47:26
about. And there was no real attempt on
47:28
either party to be like, oh, you know, what's going on, blah,
47:31
blah, blah. I was just like, fuck it, all
47:33
right, go and do something else. You know, that's just, that's
47:36
just human beings, I think more than anything.
47:41
And and if it isn't, fuck those people.
47:47
Yeah. So it's a it's a bit of a
47:49
teacher, right? Like Bitcoin.
47:51
And it sounds so stupid to say that given the fact that it's a
47:54
neural neutral protocol for distributing value across time
47:57
and space. But but it it just enables you.
48:01
Has it, have you noticed anything that it's kind of
48:04
unlocked? Any topics, subjects, points of
48:09
interest that you would not have even comprehended or considered
48:12
prior. There is like a lot of the sort
48:18
of health things like, you know, I've, I've started eating
48:22
better. I've started, you know, not that
48:24
I was eating badly prior. Like we sort of on our farm, we,
48:27
we try and grow a lot of our own food on site here.
48:31
And but yeah, in terms of like, I'm eating a lot more protein
48:37
and feeling so much better and exercising a lot more.
48:40
I mean, it sort of seems simple, but people that, you know,
48:44
Bitcoiners in those circles are so, in a word, toxic around, you
48:50
know, meat and, you know, all these things that sort of go
48:53
into knowing where your food comes from and, you know, spoken
48:55
with others about, you know, inflation sort of comes into
48:59
your food as well. And how, you know, certain
49:03
certain waste products and, and now sort of found in food, which
49:07
is all about hiding inflation in in food items and that sort of
49:11
stuff. Like there's so many different
49:12
things, like there's so many different rabbit holes to fall
49:15
down like, and even the like the Myers Briggs sort of thing as
49:19
well. It was like a massive eye opener
49:22
and I still continue to like, you know, read things and sort
49:25
of I'll pick things up. Even the other day when I sent
49:28
you that, I sort of had a bit more of a flick through it
49:29
thinking, oh, if you're going to read through it, I probably
49:32
should brush up on it again as well.
49:33
I haven't read it for a little while, but yeah, there's little
49:36
things in there that I pick up even over time that I hadn't
49:39
picked up prior as well, so. Yeah, on the second pass, you
49:42
kind of pick up a few things. I I, I read like one of the
49:46
lines in there, although not boldly social, they love meeting
49:50
like minded people and they are extraordinarily kind.
49:54
I mean, this is just blowing smoke now.
49:55
But yeah, that's that notion of the introvert extrovert, sort of
50:01
like once you find your tribe or find like a resonant frequency
50:06
that you can you can jam on with another person, it's like you
50:13
you turn into a full and Otis retard and you just can't shut
50:16
up. Like basically, yeah, it's
50:19
exactly it. But if if you don't vibe, it's
50:22
like you're just going to sit in the corner and just hope that
50:25
this is all over soon. Actually there was.
50:31
There's a quote in there that I found.
50:32
It was quite interesting as well.
50:34
I'm just trying to find it here. Well, I think it's on this page.
50:41
Yeah, I think it's actually the same one, although not boldly
50:43
social, they love meeting like minded people.
50:44
They're all extraordinary, kind, generous and dedicated to their
50:46
friends. Yeah, that's exactly the same
50:48
one that I had. The devotion may be intense,
50:52
though, and all the advocates are rarely domineering in their
50:54
assertions. Yeah, it's been pretty like, I
50:57
think the INFJ is a 1% of the population, and I think there
51:00
was. Was it Jesse Myers or someone
51:03
that did or might have been crisis crisis.
51:08
Yeah, I think he put something out a little while ago and it
51:10
showed like this is the the histogram of people in society
51:16
and like INFJSI think is less than 1%, but in Bitcoin it's
51:20
like 8 or 9%. So there's it actually gels with
51:23
like INFJS quite well. I think INTPS are pretty much
51:28
off the Richter in terms of how many of those are are big
51:31
corners, but. Yeah, because that logical
51:35
called rational sort of thing, whereas INFJ is a little bit
51:38
more feeling touchy feely kind of thing, which is yeah, which
51:44
is where the the spiral motifs come from for me anyway.
51:47
Yeah, yeah. Cool.
51:48
Yeah, I like there was. People with this personality
51:52
have to have a common stumbling block in life.
51:54
It's wrestling with the differences between their grand
51:56
dreams and reality. Yes, yeah, for.
51:59
Sure. And you're just like, yeah, OK,
52:01
fair enough. Like 'cause, yeah, 'cause It's
52:03
like, if you can dream, you can do it.
52:05
And then you're like, sweet, let's go ahead and do it.
52:06
And then you're like, oh man, there's all this admin that I
52:09
have to fucking do what? Yeah, yeah.
52:13
Yeah, that's, that's probably. Dreams are free.
52:16
Dreams are free, thoughts are free. 100% Yeah the execution
52:20
requires proof of work. It's just when the execution is
52:24
requires mountains of paperwork. I just started Season 4 of
52:27
Clarkson Farm. Oh, yeah.
52:29
The first episodes triggered me a little bit because there's a
52:32
few episodes in prior seasons where he just, he's going
52:36
through all this paperwork that that fellow Charlie gives him
52:39
for, you know, he's got to comply by this and the
52:41
government needs this and all the rest.
52:42
And he's just like, I just want to like, grow, feed some pigs
52:46
and yeah, you know, that sort of thing.
52:49
And it's just like, my God, that that is like huge killer.
52:52
But if you're Jeremy Clarkson, you can kind of throw money at
52:54
the problem and and it'll just kind of go away and get yourself
52:58
a Charlie. Exactly, Yeah.
53:00
That's the dream. That's the dream.
53:02
The dream is to get a get a Charlie so that you can make the
53:05
dream even more of a reality or whatever.
53:07
Bring it to fruition. Yeah, for sure.
53:09
Yeah. What do you wish more people
53:13
knew about Bitcoin? So I think I wish people were in
53:29
general a lot more curious not just about Bitcoin, but about
53:35
like the whole world around them.
53:38
I think there's a lot of apathy and it, and I think that starts
53:43
with really not understanding money.
53:46
Most people don't know the difference between money and
53:48
currency. And without that, I think
53:49
Bitcoin just looks like another speculation play.
53:52
So if you, if you really understand what money is and you
53:56
understand, you know, the seven different properties of money
53:59
and what makes money, what makes desirable money money and the
54:04
differences between those and that that's a sort of it's not
54:07
rocket science, but it's just not taught anywhere.
54:13
I mean that that's a whole different rabbit hole of, you
54:16
know, why isn't this stuff taught?
54:18
Is it to try and keep everyone? You know, I suppose the world
54:23
don't what doesn't run with, you know, 100% of rocket scientists,
54:26
you know, people that do all sorts of different things.
54:28
But if people knew on some of this stuff, would they, would
54:36
they understand a lot more about the world?
54:38
Would they would would we be in the apathetic state that we're
54:41
in right now? And would there be as much
54:44
division, I suppose, in the world?
54:45
Who knows? Yeah.
54:47
Like, how do you, how do you cultivate that sense of
54:53
curiosity? Curiosity.
54:55
Yeah, I was listening. I think it was Steiner still
55:02
down this Steiner rabbit hole. Sorry everyone.
55:05
And he was talking about how you need to have like, like with a
55:10
child, curiosity is, is like naturally emergent.
55:15
You know, they're, they're, they're curious about
55:16
everything. And, and, and to an adult, you
55:19
know, most of it's just mundane shit.
55:20
But, but, but it's not really when you think about it, you
55:24
know, and you and you look at it through their lens, you just
55:26
think, my God, like that is something incredible.
55:30
And he was talking about carrying that sense of curiosity
55:36
through into adulthood and then pairing it with a sense of
55:43
wonder and bringing a sense of wonder to everything that you
55:47
come into, into contact with. And OK, like don't take it to
55:51
the NTH degree and just get a sense of wonder when you walk
55:54
through a door and you, you, you just marvel, unless the door is
55:57
incredibly beautiful and ornate and all these things.
56:01
But if it's just like any old door.
56:02
But the point is just to have that in your back pocket and be
56:05
willing to pull out that sense of wonder at any moment and, and
56:08
really kind of indulge in it because it can then trigger a
56:15
sense of awe. And then you can, you can bring
56:19
up all of that curiosity and, and pursue that thing.
56:22
And again, most people don't do that nowadays because they lack
56:26
the bandwidth, the cognitive bandwidth, because they lack the
56:30
economic time and energy that's, that is available to them.
56:34
And so it gets suppressed, it gets depressed, it gets
56:38
compressed. And, and, and that's what
56:41
Bitcoin kind of unlocks is like. Once you've been in it for a
56:44
minute and you realize the power of it, you can unlock those
56:52
things a lot more because you can free up that bandwidth.
56:54
Basically, yes. And then you can go pursue that
56:57
thing. And that that's not a trite
56:59
thing to say. It sounds, it sounds, I don't
57:02
know, maybe it sounds, I don't know.
57:04
But cultivating that sense of wonder, and I don't, I think
57:08
everyone has had innate sense of curiosity in them.
57:13
Like that guy at the BBQ, that meme of did you catch the game
57:16
last night? Yeah.
57:18
Like, he's quintessential MPC normie fella, but he still has
57:23
the same cognitive capacities you or I do.
57:27
He just hasn't found that thing, that touch point that's
57:29
triggered him to go off. And he doesn't have to go off
57:32
into all of the different realms that you might be interested or
57:35
that I might be interested in. He can go off and pursue
57:38
whatever it is. Like I was listening to this
57:40
Buckminster Fuller book I've just started and and he was
57:45
talking about like the ideas that I've had.
57:46
Anyone can have them. You just have to want to have
57:49
them kind of thing like it's it's.
57:52
You have to be open minded to be able to have that curiosity.
57:56
Exactly. Yeah, So wishing that people
57:59
were more curious to get to actually want to know Bitcoin, I
58:03
suppose is, yeah. And that's a tough nut to crack,
58:07
that one. Because like, what comes first,
58:09
the chicken or the egg? How do you cultivate curiosity
58:13
if you are not naturally and curious, but you just, you've
58:18
just been browbeaten for years, decades as well?
58:23
I was saying before with like, if you're, if you're in your 20s
58:26
and you're discovering Bitcoin, you still have that childlike
58:29
ability to cultivate that curiosity, that awe, that
58:32
wonder. And then you can just compound
58:35
that over the years by unlocking this firm foundation from which
58:41
to stand on and and, you know, create all of that optionality
58:46
at a compounding rate year on year.
58:48
Like that's that's that's the secret, man.
58:51
That is a cheat code. I mean, it's a cheat code for
58:53
everyone. Yeah.
58:55
It's just that you have longer to compound the effect.
58:59
What does Bitcoin mean to you? So for me and my family,
59:08
bitcoins taken a lot of the pressure off everyday life.
59:12
You know, we live pretty simply. We live pretty humbly on our
59:14
farm. We've got a lot of own food.
59:17
My wife and I both own our own Fiat job businesses and we both
59:21
made a choice when we had our son that, you know, we, we would
59:24
pump the brakes for a bit. We'd try and stay present in the
59:26
moments and, and not let those, you know, formative years pass
59:29
by. It's given it's the confidence,
59:32
I suppose that we have a bit of that safety net.
59:35
So we can take a few extra risks, you know, starting these
59:38
different businesses and things, you know, taking days off when
59:40
we need to. So that space is also let me
59:44
reflect on what kind of father and role model I want to be and
59:49
allows us to focus on really what matters, I suppose, as a
59:52
family unit. That that to me, I suppose, you
59:54
know, it gives you back that that ability to to take your
1:00:00
life back, I suppose, and you know, not be on that nine to
1:00:03
five hamster wheel. A lot of parents these days
1:00:05
really just don't have that choice.
1:00:07
I mean, everyone has a choice, obviously, to to do additional
1:00:10
reading and that sort of stuff. But I think in a lot of cases
1:00:12
like. You know, largely, you know,
1:00:15
both, both parents work, they both need to work to pay off,
1:00:18
you know, their overpriced house.
1:00:20
They work longer and longer hours.
1:00:22
It's a bit of a vicious cycle where they see their kids less
1:00:25
and less, you know, and ultimately, I think that leads
1:00:27
to the a bit of a breakdown in the family unit where they can't
1:00:31
influence the the formative like morals and ethics of of their
1:00:34
kids. You can see it all from playing
1:00:36
out ahead of you. So I mean that that's the thing
1:00:38
that I think Bitcoin for us has done the most amount of good
1:00:42
for. It's given us time, it's given
1:00:43
us space to be able to enjoy life without stress, overly
1:00:50
overstressed, like everyone else seems to be at the moment.
1:00:52
That's so awesome. Like that is that's the best
1:00:58
thing. Like the Bitcoin, just the being
1:01:02
present thing. Yeah, because that shit goes by
1:01:04
so damn quick. Yeah.
1:01:07
Even if you are as present as you possibly can be, it's still
1:01:11
goes by so quick. I mean, we've already been
1:01:13
chatting for now, right? Like that's gone by real quick
1:01:17
and trying to be here now being present.
1:01:20
And then you, you, you add a kid into the mix, your kid and you
1:01:25
want to just, you know, be around them as much as possible,
1:01:28
take care of them. The fact that Bitcoin, you know,
1:01:33
gives you the capacity to do that, that Fiat just does not
1:01:36
do. That's that's the thing, man.
1:01:40
That is the thing. That's that's awesome.
1:01:47
Do you accept Bitcoin at your business?
1:01:50
I don't yet, but I actually work in I'm I'm I've only got a
1:01:55
couple of clients and and their the, the nature of their
1:01:58
business, they probably wouldn't ever look at it, but I do I do
1:02:02
stack Bitcoin on my treasury as part of my business.
1:02:05
So savings for my business and I am actually working with a
1:02:08
couple of different businesses around as well to, to try and
1:02:10
get them onto a BTC pay server so that they will, they're
1:02:14
interested in taking Bitcoin payments as well.
1:02:16
So. Yeah, nice, nice, nice, nice
1:02:21
hazer, hazer, hazer. Hazer yes, Laser.
1:02:28
Laser Hazer. Yeah.
1:02:30
Thanks for coming on the podcast.
1:02:31
Thank you for spending some scarce time, finite energy
1:02:34
telling us the tale of how you discover Bitcoin.
1:02:36
Man, it's been it's been a chat and it's good to meet another
1:02:41
rare bird in the Myers Briggs camp.
1:02:44
I really appreciate the time mate, and yeah, thanks very much
1:02:48
for reaching out to me.