Latest / LeaderSIP: Let's Talk Leadership / Restorative Leadership in a Stressful World

Transcript

Restorative Leadership in a Stressful World · LeaderSIP: Let's Talk Leadership

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of Leader Sip.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Today we are joined by Celeste Sipes.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: And before we dive in, let's first start with what we're sipping on today.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Cell, would you mind sharing what you're drinking?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I went to the farmer's market last weekend, like you do in St.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: John's, which is adorable.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I found this drink.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Arcoiris.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Arcoiris.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Chica marana?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what that is?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Chica Chica Marana?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a elixir, it's an Incan Incan elixir.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like uh made out of like a blue corn lime and has like cloves and it's so it kind of tastes like actually this one is this is the one I prefer.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Zero sugar.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like ancient Incan elixir.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Done cold.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like something magical and also it's very delicious.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that clove and cinnamon gave it like an almost cola sharp.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's very good.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this one has a little bit of sugar.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's maybe the coolest.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Very darling business owner, too.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: We've that's the coolest beverage we've had on the show so far.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So far.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know I don't want to say mine.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mine feels boring now.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love a weird beer.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love like an interesting beverage.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always on the hunt for like the perfect.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I like to have superfoods in my drinks.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Super drinks.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: An entire meal.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a superfood.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I have cacao, but I have my homemade coconut cashew creamer in it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's very good.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_06: I know.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_06: I am not as fancy as you too, so I'm just sipping on some black tea with cream.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_06: That's it.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_06: End of the story.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_06: That's it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_05: Wait, but is it Earl Grey or English breakfast?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_05: Or just English breakfast.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I love an Earl Grey.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_06: Me too.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, let's jump in to the episode.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So today with Celeste, we're going to be talking about restorative leadership.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Celeste will key us in on what that means because it is her own term, TM.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then also what that looks like in a stressful world or when when the pressure is turning on.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So Sel, would you first introduce yourself, introduce your business, and then go into what restorative leadership is.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, my name is Celeste Sipes.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the owner and founder of Thunderpants USA, which actually we're in the process of changing the name to Thunderpants US because that A has become very shharp.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like Thunderpants, because we are made the Made in America, because we're made in America company.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: All of our apparel is made in Portland.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: All of our fabric that we use, it's our own custom blend of fabric.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: We primarily do underwear.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: As you can see, I'm painting our Pride collection right now.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I have behind me.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um hand painting.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So all of our fabric, it's our own blend.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of our secret sauce.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's an organic cotton spanix blend and it has like extra stretch and retention.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's woven so a lot of the stretch is on the cross grain.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So then we can kind of chop it up and use it for binding.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all self-bound.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Extremely comfortable, wedgie proof.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I really love the brand.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I actually licensed the brand from a New Zealand company, Thunderpants NZ.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um about 10.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're turning 10 this year, so it's our 10-year anniversary.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: This month, actually, is our 10-year anniversary.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Happy birthday! So we're as local as possible.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which is really exciting.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that we started out as Thunderpants USA, and then the USA has gotten very sharp.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the Made in America brand has really shifted in the last five years, um, from what that means and what people how people interpret that.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also turning point USA, TP USA, US.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, too close, it's the same thing for comfort.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like honestly, think that USA has become a bit of a liability for us.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a big process.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And for our 10-year anniversary, we'll be like changing our name and all of our branding and our URL and trying to get that all like figured out.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh nice.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's the brand.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And our man, so we're in St.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: John's in Portland.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love St.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: John's.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're right on the river.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome studio, really beautiful space, really nice quality of life here.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then our factory is like just through Forest Park, which I'm looking at right now out my window.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I go there like once a week to pick up product and have like a great, it's a woman-owned factory.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have the same sewer.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: We just actually they just hired a new sewer, but we have the same sewers who've been sewing all of our products basically for the last 10 years.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So our quality is really high, and we check every pair.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: We I batch check all the fabric.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we're really, really concentrating on like quality and comfort and something that just gives you like a lot of people describe it as like a hug for your butt.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_06: So it's just like it's like any it is, it is right, it is there's so I have a customer and I love those those products, and our butts don't get hugged enough.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Butts are like people think that butts are made for like slapping or squeezing, but they need to be hugged too.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they do.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: We need hugs all over right now.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: We do, we do, yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so um to answer your question about what I mean by restorative business is I was thinking, so our main one of my main goals.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been in apparel for a really long time.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even do the math.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think I had my first apparel cost I started doing costume design in 2002, maybe, and I had my first line in 2005.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been in apparel for a long time, doing everything from making everything myself to having contract sewers to now doing production.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a boutique for 10 years from 2008 to 2018, and we sold all um ethically made stuff.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Most of it was made in North America, and then the Thunder pants, which were then made in New Zealand when we first opened before I licensed the brand.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the manufacturing of apparel.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So apparel is the third most exploitive or is exploitative.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exploitative?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_05: I think exploitative.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exploitative in the in the world, behind like oil and palm.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like it's a horrible industry.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the horribleness is in manufacturing and it's in waste.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's so extractive and it's so exploitative, and it's um it just like it's just like using people and throwing them away, which is I think part of a broader business culture where you feel like your employees are just like a resource to be tapped.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like the sort of opposite of extracting from people is to create something that feels restorative.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's like a pretty lofty goal, actually.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to find, but I really put my eyes on like, is it possible to come to work and not leave drained?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible to come to work and have something that feels like in not not in like maybe shy of invigorating, like at the worst, neutral?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And at the best, you walk away feeling like part of a team, like you accomplished something, like, you know, good fuzzy, good vibes as you walk away instead of feeling like you've been tapped.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's like the main my main issue with business culture is the way it feels like it's just tapping every resource until it's dry.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like employees don't feel they just feel like they're they just get screwed, like used up and thrown away.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_06: With being at your factory, and I would say that it's really hard to identify who's an employee because everybody is engaged and talking.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm like, are you are like is everybody just collaborating?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um, is that part of what you when you said like restorative leadership?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, this is the the way that you envision it, that that restorative leadership?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like that everyone feels like they have a say.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's tricky.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was just I've been thinking about it a lot lately because when I started this idea, we were kind of in this sweet spot of business.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: We were growing really effortlessly, and I was probably a little overstaffed, and so everyone was under like they they were like underutilized a little bit, maybe it would they just had more time, like it was like a flow, they could take extra time, there wasn't a ton of pressure, and it was like very easy.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: You could like chat and have fun and like do your job and sing songs and like take a like Rihanna break to like call it out.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like creating a environment.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then and last year, so last year became like a really interesting spot because I've always been slightly overstaffed since the very beginning.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were it was just Brooke and I, who's like my mate, my employees been on me the longest.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: She was actually with me at Radish before at the boutique.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were I also worked at Radish for a little bit.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just probably I have also sold Thunderpants, but at Radish.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it I mean, it was like after we got to the point where we could like hire somebody and then like da-da-da.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like we started like we got out of debt.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, you know, a zero debt company at this point.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're starting to have more profits.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like paying myself, and then we get to this point where I'm like hire, can hire people.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would like, and I really want to hire like when I think about hiring people, I don't try to think about just like what I can pay hourly, but it's like, what, like, what could I I need everyone here to make like a true living wage?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, how can I do that fairly?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: If I can't hire them full-time, can I hire them part-time?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm like, I want, I mean, I'll pay you like equivalent of 30 hour salary, but I only expect you to work 25 or 27 hours.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I I want to keep it feeling very balanced.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Full time here is like 30, 35 hours.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that's not that kind of evens out because in March we're like la la la la la la.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: And then December we're like, ah, yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there are times where it ebbs and flows, but I want to make sure people take a lot of vacation time and like I pay, you know, I provide insurance.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I try to just keep the outside stress low.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want you to have vacation time, I want you to have insurance.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do a monthly um like health benefit where it's like for a massage or gym membership, things that just like keep everybody's quality of life higher.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing, yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Which and like and so, like, and doing that's like a stretch, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's still a business.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, well, what kind of business can I have like enough resources for all this?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was this point where it was like we were kind of more research, resource rich, and we were having a kind of a leisurely time, and then it's like everything felt very acute very fast.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of in like intense family stress where I just was pulled away, and then we were growing like crazy last year.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: We grew 40%, and all of a sudden it's like I don't needed more from all of my employees, and then that's where like the whole concept started getting pressured, pressured, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_06: But I but I must say that I I I must say that you feel that that's what I was uh trying to to describe.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_06: You feel that that it's not that tension that that they you feel that they were belonging there with the company, vibing with the company, so and it's a factory setting.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_06: That's so so it's not that oh, this is the storefront every day, it's the people, yeah, building things there, and it was such a good vibe.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_06: So I think that those things really, really impact even the the basic energy of us walking as customers and feeling that synergy between you and your team.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: But so I am curious, like when you talk about first of all, agree.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And for the record, Celeste, you've always been an idol of mine in terms of a business owner and you've been like standout since forever in terms of like values forward and living your values and and defining your values and operationalizing your values.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we see so often in in companies where people are like, our values are amazing, but we don't know what they mean, and we don't know how to operationalize them.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what is that?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like just the disconnect between like values and action is and it's super complicated and really hard, and especially when you grow, like growth and change in general, like as from my research will tell you as well, like it people separate, like that that closeness, like the the communication breaks down, and those invisible frames are created, and people are like, Oh, I need to like start hiding my experiences, or like whoa, something feels off and and it becomes hard.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I'm curious when you say that things are feeling more pressured, like is that a you feeling like as a leader, you're holding that, or to Yara's point, like it still feels incredible when we walk into the thunder pants.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a factory setting?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: What do you call that?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a little both because we do um, they're not made here, but we do some, like, you know, I'm painting underwear right now and we cut so the process is is like the fabric is milled in LA and then it's shipped to Portland, and then we get the binding cut in Seattle.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we send it back and forth to Seattle, and then so all everything's made in Hillsborough, but then it comes back here and then it's checked, shipped, folded, and then all of our scrap comes, we cut all the scrap down, and then we sell all of our scrap online, which is is like I feels like a um, it feels like a trick.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're like I'm like, people just want to buy this?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we just sell it for like the cost of shipping.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but people love it, and like we've had like all these people post about how good our scraps are for crafting, and so we actually do like a pretty good we like get rid of most of our scraps.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was like some Reddit post where this guy was like stuffing his punching bag with our scraps, so we'll sell like it's like I'm like, I'm like, whoa, this I was like, this is like real high, like really pretty good.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_06: This is good quality.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_06: The quality, yeah, it's a great quality.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_06: They're unbreakable, they're just great quality.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's really the quality is great, and it's you know, it's hard, it's hard to stay that consistent.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And like to your point, Shannon, too.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like on one hand, we have the product is meaningful and it means something to people, and it means something to the employees.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are here because they they came to Thunderpants out of like a love of Thunderpants somehow, or like model for us, or you know what I mean?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it all just sort of creating that like yeah, like just sort of flow and ease and like try and trying to keep everything keep the temperature down where I'm like at the end of the day, it's um it's just underwear, you know, like it's important.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Every like for me, what's important is like the product, keeping it consistent because it like means something to people and it's like the right thing to do, and it takes a lot of work, and like as you were saying, Shannon, growing sometimes that pressure, there are ways where you're like, I could just, could I just and then you're like, no, I must, I must stay on track with my morals, you know?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it gets tricky because there's so many roadblocks to doing things the way that you like ethically to do like to stick to your guns.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and then when you're small and you just don't have a ton of capital or a ton of buying power, I mean, we had to compromise on some stuff just because we this factory was like, ha ha ha, how many yards are you buying?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: LOL, you know, so it was like we could first we just had to like get our fake feet in the door.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so try and like to have this relationship where we're not we're not perfect company and we have work to do, but it's like we're just we just have to do that work as we can, as we have space and money and time, and you know, like we're pretty we're pretty good.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and morals and ethics aren't like black and white.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're like you have to give and take.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean environmental impact.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, okay, should I use a recycled plastic bag or should I use a pay paper bag?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, there's well three sites, like there's carbon footprint, and there's you know, like you need to be recycling plastic, or there's just so many things, and then there's the customer perception, which is like a whole other thing, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because then it's like that matters too, even though that it might, even though they might be wrong in their perception that like paper's better than plastic.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's not actually true categorically, necessarily.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: But try explaining that to everyone.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I remember that with with um Radish Underground, you had some products from China, and people are like, What?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you like break it down categorically of like, no, this is waste that's being created by in tons in droves, and the fact that we're consuming it and upcycling it and creating a different product out of it, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's that was that looped.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was a local, I was like, I couldn't remember, I was like, Yeah, it was a local brand.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was our only thing made in China, but yeah, right.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was all made from factory floor waste, which was already there.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for us to have like, I would love to have a US made like all the way through product like grown here and stuff, but there's like no people to spin it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So then it would have to go to Turkey and back.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just crazy.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have, then when it comes to marketing, like to actually sell something, you have to be able to explain that and finding all that word.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like kind of finding the sort of the best choice you have at the moment.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like ideal, like you said, ideals are something you move towards.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard to get there.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you do get there, the goalpost kind of changes.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like the, I mean, like with the staff and like the environment, like things got like I said, things got really hard last year, and there was like a lot of pressure, and things started.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I needed more from my employees, and then they felt more pressure, and that and then that was a really hard.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a continuing, it's continuously a hard, harder thing to navigate.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, how do we keep doing this when we actually things are tighter and things are more stressful and we need to do be like a little more productive?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm never gonna get to the point where I'm like you know, squeezing, but I'm like, but I need a little more juice out of the fruit.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_06: That's that's my question.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I I was going to, and now that you're saying that, because when we see a lot of HR people all the time, right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Shannon and I, because of what we do.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_06: And sometimes when talking about I want to be more inclusive in terms of uh different styles, I want to bring more styles, but I don't want to be soft.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_06: So because then I lose my authority.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_06: And then that's it, that's a challenge that I hear very, very often with leaders.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but if then they're not gonna respect me.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_06: So, how were you able to balance that beautiful thing that we've witnessed?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_06: All that people working together, and how you were able to do that?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_06: As and as you're saying, in difficult times, how to use it without squeezing, but yes, I need more because we need to do more this in this moment.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's such an interesting question.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've never I don't really think about it because I have like no concerns about having my like authority respected or being or having, I don't know, like and it's like in my personality, like for some reason it just never kind of occurs where I'm like, are they gonna listen to me?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always assume they're going to listen to me for some reason.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also like, I don't, I very rarely, very, very rarely in am I like, this is what needs to be done, just do it, you know, because every job I create, people I just sort of like I'd be like, this is the this is what I want done.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just let them build out their own system.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I would be like, get into the data, see, ask people to time themselves and see what's reasonable, see where it was going, and then just set some expectations.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then if they're not, I feel like management is a process, and I I believe that in my in my heart, but sometimes I it's easy to get frustrated because it's like it takes maintenance.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just be like, do this, blah, blah, blah, and then it's done.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to tell people all the time, kind of, to do stuff.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and they just it's just there's the world is like so much and they have different ideas, but then also it's like the like I was saying about the gold pulse moving.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, even if you feel like you get things into this perfect spot, everyone's doing their job and they're all shining and it's going well, something happens.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Something happens, and it's like there's conflict, things fall apart, people do, you know what I mean?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: They somebody gets sick or blah blah blah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's all these stresses on there.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then people feel anxious.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, okay, now the staff is really anxious because of these just series of events.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now what do I do?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was, it's like, it was easy for me to build a space that felt comfortable, like a sanctuary business.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but then it's very comfortable.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like to there, I was like, la la la la la ta-da.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fun.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: Here we are singing, pulling it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then as the pressure goes on, and like there's things come up, somebody says something, somebody attaches to it, somebody gets sick, somebody has to pull somebody else's weight, somebody doesn't feel like somebody else is doing enough.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's like a lot of it, it just isn't coming from me.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like coming from them at each other more.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I it's like, so when I had like this, these big family issues come up last year and I was away from the office a lot.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest piece of feedback I got to my like like was really eye-opening for me and it was really hard to hear.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is they're like, when you're not here, it's like everything falls apart.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like the culturally, like not the business runs, but it's like it just just that that zone just goes away.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh I was like, what do I do?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how do I do about like when I'm not here?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had to kind of rethink.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I'm just doing this very top-down thing.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's elements of me that are like, I have like some pretty strong codependence, and I really want everyone to be happy, and I want everyone to feel safe, and I want and like sometimes I get so wrapped up in that I like maybe just am blurring over where it's like I'm here and I'm like da-da-da, and everything's chill.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if somebody asks me a question, I have a chill answer.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm gone and they have to interact with each other, things started to get less awesome.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a it's such a fascinating leadership problem to be like the culture carrier in in in an organization and like leading by example, one might say, or servant leadership, or like you're the one who people look to.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Apart from when Celeste needs, like, it's the question of like is the purpose of your business that you want it to be this way without you there?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is that the purpose of your leadership, or is the purpose of your leadership to just always be a part, an integral part of this?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then it won't go on, it won't, it won't succeed.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I I am actually thinking about you know the Patagonia versus Patagonia lawsuit and how the CEO is gone now.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: The the one the founder is is gone, and how just the culture of Patagonia has obviously like completely shifted while still like making all of these sales, but it's like at what point are those values going to like is the energy, is like the Celeste energy going to expire than where they're leaning to like yeah, totally.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I look to I look to new Thunderpants New Zealand because I'm I am in a really unique luck lucky spot too, is like they've had this business for 30 years and they're the most lovely women, the sisters who own Thunderpants New Zealand.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so they created this culture where like the whole culture of Thunderpants was like work-life balance.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's like, you know, there's no like underwear.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: There are underwear emergencies, but I mean it's sort of like do you prioritize your staff?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it always prioritize and I'm like, yeah, you prioritize your staff's well-being, but then you know, then it's like, what do you do when things get hard?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I can kind of like look to them and like they because they really create, I feel like they created a culture that I fit really well into.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I helped create that culture here, and then I'm like, and now I'm like, now I really exactly to your point, Shannon.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really have to look at like if I want this to exist beyond me, I mean, it's like one of my jobs is like, what's the future of this company?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: What's the succession plan?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: What like you know, I'm I'm still young, but yeah, you know, it's like I'm not gonna be doing this forever.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and also I'm like the employees' well-being is my number one concern, but I can't I have to balance that with like being able to to pay them, you know, which is also like my I feel like my primary job is I have two, you know, I serve two people, one is a customer and the other is my staff and the people along the supply chain.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I do like my job is to make sure they have like a good work life, a safe environment to work in and get paid like fairly, more than fairly, you know, and that they get to ease some of the strain.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to ease some of this strain, but like also the outside culture is becoming so much harder.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I have, you know, I have a lot of diverse staff, and it's like it's just it's bleeding in.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's total people, people are like more anxious, people come to work more anxious, people bring more to work than they did before, and then there's a little more expected of them.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's like, okay, well, now we have this uh an out like we have an internal problem in that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I unintentionally create an environment that doesn't function as well without me in it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like doing that, and then I'm like, and then I have this extra challenge of things I cannot control.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, the political, the environmental, like the 100-degree days.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, people just like walk, people walk in with a lot more stress than they did.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people walk in with a lot more stress than they did before 2024.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this 2024, I mean, 2025 just so stressful.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I can't, it's not my job to like me stress.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, well, how do I create an environment so warm and beautiful that it overrides the anxiety that people bring to work?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not sure actually.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that so now I'm really I'm really like I taught I I had a like I it's still a successful environment, and I don't want to be like, you know, like there's totally it's not like wild problems.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something that I'm I think as we grow, it's something that needs to be addressed like now.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it it comes to a point where like and that it's not your responsibility to like take care of their outside world.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: So like there's just there's there's a certain and and it's reminding me, Yara, I'm so interested to know your thoughts just from a cultural perspective, because I know that we talk a lot about how like we have it so easy in the US, like as compared to like Puerto Rico and Puerto Rico specifically, and the climate, what's happening in the government right now, and just the political climate and how it's impacting all of us.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Yara's like, yeah, welcome to my literal life.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is what it's like for us on the island.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and like we work like we work.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And no, no, no.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Yara, yeah, I'm so curious to hear just your thoughts right now, like as we're talking about because we're so like especially in Portland, and we make and we laugh about how we're just like so overly cautious and so careful with people's feelings.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I'm I'm just I'm not to say overly, but you know what I mean.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like different culturally, like the same PR.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but Portland is a very specific, very, very special, specific place.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um businesses and things evolve differently here.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_06: They like here, there's a really specific culture um happening here in Portland.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_06: I can compare it because sometimes we see it and talk.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Shannon and I, we have conversations about our clients, and we're talking about clients in Atlanta, we're talking about clients in Puerto Rico.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_06: And one of the things that I always need to calculate when I'm designing projects, programs, trainings for them is make sure that I I have that present that they're gonna come to work potentially without electricity for a while, potentially like with without maybe running water for a while, with inten the intense, intense uh pressure in terms of uh the in Puerto Rico the medium wage is 26k per year, but it's more expensive that live here to live here in Portland.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_06: You pay a hundred sometimes of electricity.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_06: So even more expensive in Puerto Rico than in Portland.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_06: In Puerto Rico, that in Portland.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_06: So even though it's not it's it's not that I I I can't solve those problems, I I have them present when I design so I can be relatable, so I can start meet them halfway.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_06: Because sometimes, and this happened a lot, uh I work in Puerto Rico most of my career.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_06: We would have visitors that come and say, like, this wellness program and this other wellness, and when your wellness uh coach and we were like, What are we no, we're we're you're just here.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_06: I have here in my yeah, I have here in my position, I'm doing the work of three people.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_06: I'm doing the work of three people.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_06: There is no wellness.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_06: I want to run because when I when I you see me here in this training, I will go back to my desk and then it's gonna be horrible because I'm gonna be behind since I'm doing the role of three people.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_06: So those things are really important, and I see that you're that you are um doing that, taking into consideration, okay, what else is out there?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_06: So you don't um you don't leave yourself in the door when you walk into your work.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_06: I used to have a boss that said, I want you to take yourself like a coat, your personal life and your personal self, take it like a coat and hang it on the door and come to work.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_06: And then when you leave, you take your personal self out the door.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_06: But that's not real.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_06: You don't stop thinking about, oh, I I don't have how to pay my electricity.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_06: You you just don't don't separate yourself like that.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_06: So I think that that style of leadership that you're bringing, I love the word the the way that you're describing it, restorative, is also understanding.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_06: And I think, and this is only this is a theory, everybody, this is a theory.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_06: I don't have data for this.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_06: I think that it would be really interesting to measure the success because I know that you know.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_06: It's different when you start talking to me about values, so throwing really fancy marketing words about innovation and togetherness and family, but I don't I don't see it.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_06: Versus you're doing it opposite.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_06: You're saying this is what I'm bringing to the table, understanding what's out there for you, what you're experiencing out there.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_06: You're doing it backwards.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_06: So I I and I at least, and this is my understanding, I've seen these people, and they look very fulfilled doing their jobs.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_06: So I am extremely curious to just keep this conversation.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_06: This conversation needs part two.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it does I for sure want to see the the success of this.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_06: And actually, it takes a lot of planning.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_06: You you you were saying I don't think about it, but one thing that I want to highlight is that I don't the thing that you said, I don't question is if people is gonna question my authority.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_06: That having that understanding, that calmness, being safe on who you are and what you're doing, versus I want to prove that I am the boss.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_06: I want I want to prove here that I am the owner.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_06: So that balanced leadership also playing there and making a difference.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_06: Now I'm putting a lot of pieces together.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_06: I'm saying, oh, this is what I witness, and I can see the leadership behind it.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_06: And it's amazing.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_06: And I can I can tell, like, do I want to see this company that treats me well grow?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, let's grow 40%, versus what if you it would be opposite?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_06: Like, what she doesn't understand me, la la la, you know?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_06: So that's where I'm at with this restorative learning uh leadership right now, and I think that it's amazing.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the extreme privilege, like we have so much privilege to be able to even be wrestling, like to be able to do wrestling with like how can I create like the fact that you're and it it's as we become more disadvantaged as a country, like it's yeah, I can see you as a business owner like having that privilege slowly taken away.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't, I'm not gonna necessarily be able to control it to this point where I want to.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was also Celeste, and then I'll let you talk.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things I was I was thinking about in one of the organizations where I work, um, where we facilitated recently, one of their values is people first.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they had to have like massive layoffs because of you know, oh fill in the blank of all of the reasons.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the the CEO gave a really interesting talk about it, and then one of the participants was like I ca who worked in HR and is like, I say we are people first, not person first, because if we like took care of every single person in the company, we wouldn't be existing anymore.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, like and that's like the where those values goalposts move around because they can't hold all of these employees.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they in order to stay afloat, they needed to let people go.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just a very fascinating problem to have.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also like how maybe a product of our generation, how like the millennials famously and Gen Xers are like so caring about like feelings and environment and all of these things.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it comes into question sometimes of like we also have a job to to get done here, and that's like I hear you wrestling with that, Celeste.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Which is well, yeah, it's like I mean, capitalism.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know what I mean?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like a tricky, yeah, you know, and I'm like, uh yeah, you know, I wish I could just pay you guys, like we could all just be like, and I think about that too all the time, Janet.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: About like I'm like even grappling with the problems I'm grappling with is like pretty, like you said, pretty privileged, you know, like not to diminish, not to diminish.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have the type of company, but there also was like through all my iterations of business, I did like I tried to identify each time I pivoted to like where is the sweet spot where like it's not, you know, like we can get a little more return on our effort.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have a because we're online, we can sell across the country, we can do we can we can sell more with fewer work hours.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like that, I really identified like that.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then I also am like, well, there's people in our supply chain who don't have that luxury too, you know, the people who are picking the cotton, the people with the mill.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't like I know they're getting paid fairly, but I don't know the the intricacies of their work environment.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: The factory I do, and those and I know they're getting paid really well, and they all they're like, they have a great culture and zero turnover, and that's like really happy to see.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, yeah, I'm also in this like very small window of businesses that can even think about the problems that I have.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then I'm also like, it's like one of those bad like chicken or egg things, because I'm also like, if we thought about business differently as a culture, would these type of businesses be more common?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the tennis, you know, it's like the women's sports thing.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're like, oh, we can't invest in women's sports until they have viewership.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like tennis is the only sport that made the purses equal before they had that discussion.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then female tennis stars became, you know what I mean?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like it's like this, it's like I think we think about it backwards.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it is because capital is like business culture is so deeply embedded in our American culture, and we just like this is just the way the world is.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but this is all a construct.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, not to even using my philosophy degree, but I'm sort of like, can I do it differently, even if it goes against some advice?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, and if it's not working, I'm like, I'm happy to pivot, but I'm just like, I'm just going to, I just want to constantly be evaluating like what information about how to run a business comes from like my own experience, what's coming from my staff, because I welcome their feedback.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, as you were saying, yeah, one of the reasons I never feel threatened is I'm like, or my authority question, I'm like, I want their feedback.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear them, you know, like I know I'm the ultimate decision maker.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no, there's no question.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's my, you know, that's my job.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they want me to be a leader.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, in fact, they get mad at me when I when I'm like wishy-washy.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they want they want more clarity.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm all, oh, I don't know.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, no, just give us clarity.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, yes.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I always want to be like, how much of this is exists in the company, how much of this exists uh in this our culture, and how much exists is just the way that we think is normal, but it's it's not.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like systems of oppression and systems of capitalism and exploitation that we just like have all normalized as like part of business.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that really needs to be.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's then it's like, well, those philosophical questions I always need to keep in my head, but I'm like, I have to stop myself because when things get really stressful, I just like kind of just want to be like inertia.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, okay, I have just I have to continue to be taking information in and making dis decisions, even though I want to be like under my covers.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like just do whatever you want.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care anymore today.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care anymore.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're so capable women.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: You can do it.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you take care of it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so I I love that, and I also it this a thought bubble just popped up for me, like a memory of I don't know, maybe like six or seven years ago when Thunderpants US, you were like take see what I did there.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: You were taking photos of different sized models in your underwear, and you were um like yeah, just diverse bodies in your photos and in your ads, and there was such so much pushback.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like in rooms where it was like, no, you have to like be sexy, you have to have like sex appeal in your underwear, and you were like, why?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember like I I think about that still sometimes how you were like your morals first, and you were just you were so clear in that.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: And now, look, everyone's doing it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's doing it.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't know.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone, yeah, but I did have to push up against a lot, which it's so funny because I don't even think of myself that way.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just am like, yeah, I'm just like don't I'm stubborn.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just stubborn in like I think I'm I'm willing to hear people, but even as they're talking to me, sometimes I have to like my stubbornness is like a rock next to the information.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like letting it flow.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have to just sit, let it sit there for a second, like take a drink of water, you know, and like just let it down.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: But then when it comes, so it's like when it comes to morals, it's like it's like I took my bad personality drink and I like use it for for good.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I try to like keep it tamped down a little bit.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because like feedback and criticism, I can be pretty sensitive, but I've just like I just like yeah, I might just take it in, just take it in, just take it in, you know.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then when it's like you need to be sexy, you need to have this kind of body, you need and I'm all huh, no, not doing it.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: So stubborn, like get out.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it feels like so counter to my like personality, but I'm just like, no, I'm not, I don't want to do it if I have to do it that way.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, and that also, like you said, is like kind of a privilege, but I'm like, I really believe that I'm like I'm in a unique situation.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, of all people to try to do like what I'm doing, it should be me, you know?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yara, shall we shall we move to rapid fire questions?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, rapid fire.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be I'm too chatty for rapid fire.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: You start, you start.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you kind of just answered this, but I want to ask it again, anyways.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: First thing you do when you feel yourself getting reactive.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I do I do take a deep breath.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I actually start like rapid fire lecturing myself.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm like, just sit with it, just sit with it.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just sit with it.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just sit with it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just sit with it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll and then I'll say, I'm just gonna need to sit with this.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's a good one.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I like it.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm just gonna need to sit with this.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_06: Nice.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_06: I have one for you, and is um the best piece of advice you've ever been given.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: This the one that comes to mind the most often is um one of my really good friends um uh who is like a mentor to me and I was growing up.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: He said that in business, like you're gonna get screwed over, things are gonna go wrong, people take advantage of you.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: They like you just have to budget for it so that it doesn't stress you out.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to know it's coming and not get caught up on it and just like put it in the budget, 5% for like your bullshit factor or whatever, and then it if it doesn't go really well, just let it go.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good one.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like that, yeah.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just get stuck, you know, like on you just get stuck on things, and it's like this is taking way too much energy.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just like budget for it.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_05: I love that.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: That's a great advice.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_05: Oh so good.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_05: It was really hitting me.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_05: That's hitting me.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening to me right now.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm like, I'm I'm thinking about it as well.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh wow, I don't have much.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yari, you talk about budget energy budgets, but it's never been like specifically about that.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think do that personally too, where I just have like a personal budget, person, you know, like in my own finances and in my own emotional, you know, just like okay, it's below a certain amount, fine.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest, like all things small business or business owners, like also apply to real life.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all apply our personal lives.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, my question.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you wish you could restore in yourself more often?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: In myself?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good that's a really good question.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I like I I get in this, I get stuck in like over worrying about like the like everybody's feelings around stuff and the outcome around things and doing things really perfectly and really like really gap.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I hate it if I get angry or if I go if I make a mistake.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what it's like, I like I want, especially in certain things where people are personally involved and like hurting somebody's feelings or something is like such a crisis for me.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, sometimes I'll be like, I'll just like do all of their work instead of hurting their feelings.
• 46:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where I was like, oh, that's kind.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's cool, guys.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I call it reverse capitalism.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just do it all.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: I just went into this codependent spot, which is also part of my stubbornness, and then I'm just doing reverse capitalism all day long.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: The only one here.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's so funny.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Sleeping here at night, and then I'm like, okay, I really, really need to address this with myself.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's fair, Sal.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_06: That's fair.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: Fair, fair, fair.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_06: This is going to be the last one is Thunder Pans US in three words.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_06: Go.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_06: Ooh, okay.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Comfy, ethical, fun.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they are.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, each word hit.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, yes, yes, yes.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking of a good synonym for fun as I went, but I was like, nah, it's just fun.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: We gave it simple.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just like the simplicity of hugging a butt.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, it's so simple and complicated.
• 48:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_06: And I tested this in a hundred degrees and something.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, I thought that it was this is built for Portland because of the texture of the fabric, but no, I tested this in the Caribbean, and they're as comfy and they're perfect.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know where our biggest wholesaler is, our retailer that sells the most of our underwear?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: New Orleans.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that crazy?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_06: I know because I know they're comfortable.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_06: They're caught on and for humidity and heat.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, they're great.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really do love this product.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what keeps me.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_05: Keeps me holding them.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: You're a singer as well.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: We had to have it, we had to have a karaoke moment.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is one thing we do a lot here is we sing our whatever we're saying, we're singing it.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: That keeps things pretty chill instead of saying if you want to give someone criticism, if you sing it lightly.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: That helps, I find.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd be curious, like if you were to start documenting your leadership style and like as a way of a succession plan, like I'd be super curious for you to just document your Ness because your celeste ness.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Shannon.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do that.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm totally gonna, I think that's a great idea.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Cause it feels like I will say one of my yeah, they could I'll ask them.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can see like there's this is like a moment in time right now where I'm like, I'm tight, I need to tighten things up a little bit.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: It can't just be like my charm and charisma alone or whatever.
• 49:45
  unknown: No, I'm just kidding.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's true.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's true.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the work that I'm like really just started getting into right now, is like and getting my head around where I'm like, just like some more solidly, you know, like less vibe-oriented, more structure.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Celeste Thunderpants US, thank you so much for your time today, and thank you for sharing all of your wisdom.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you have serious.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: If no one's told you this yet today or this year, like you have serious wisdom.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like serious business wisdom.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is a good, I appreciate hearing that.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably a good timing for me too, because I was feeling a little wilted.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Fair.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, your business is just incredible and blooming, and yeah, yeah.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, awesome.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you two are great.