Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Incredibles 2 (2018) - Brad Bird | Houselights #143

Transcript

Incredibles 2 (2018) - Brad Bird | Houselights #143 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

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Welcome to the nerd Polity. Welcome back to Houselights, our director discussion show
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here on the Nerd Party Network. Today, we're completing The Birdhouse, covering
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Brad Bird's final directed work as of this date, Incredibles Too. It's also
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Brad's first sequel. I'm Darren Moser and I'm joined again by my friend's screen
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slaver, Goggle repairman Tristan Riddell and Ambassador to the Supers John Mills. Gentlemen,
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no caps allowed as we discuss at just how much money this film made.
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Wow, Incredibles Too. Not the Incredibles Too. Only two words,
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only two words. Yeah, this is It's not often that we get to
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sequels. I mean, granted, we had Godfather and that's kind of its
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own, its own thing. But yeah, now we get to see,
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after fourteen years, Brad Bird come back to the well of this story.
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And I think that's going to be really interesting to compare and contrast, because
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you know, does the second story hold up to the first? Is it?
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You know, technology has advanced. It's not like can we do humans
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and hair? You know it? Pixar has advanced so much between those two
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two years. But let's start with one of our favorite first questions. Again,
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this was only five years ago, twenty eighteen. Tristan, When did
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you see this? Did you? Was it of course Pixar time to see
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it or was the incredible to you know, like, eh, maybe maybe
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let it go to streaming. This one was let go to streaming, like
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it was. It was very much. I've waited fourteen years. I can
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wait, you know, a few months more. I can wait six months
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too bad. Yeah, honestly, I think I think that was it.
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Like if it was two years after, I probably would have been like,
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oh sweet, another Incredibles film. Yeah, I'll go see that right away.
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But because it was so long, it was monumental because it was so
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long, but at the same time detrimental because you could wait, no problem.
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And so yeah, I saw this when it was streaming, and that
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was the only time I watched it was in twenty eighteen when it was released
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on streaming. Well, so I just looked it up. So this movie
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was fourteen years after the first one, just beating out by one year,
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longer than James Cameron's gap between Avatar and Avatar two of thirteen years. Wow,
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Brad, you you waited you out I didn't think anyone would outdo Cameron
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on that stat but you did. When this movie was coming out, there
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was there was so much any memes of Gary Oldman's character Serious Black in the
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Harry Potter films when he's like, I've done my waiting. Well, what
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about you, John? Does this taking the family to the cineplex? Or
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were you ready to wait an extra six months to just sit in your own
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home with your own food and just enjoy the Incredibles too. This was my
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first time watching it. I had didn't even cool. It wasn't It wasn't
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one of those things where it was like a conscious thing or it was like
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screw that movie. It was more of a thing of I will go ahead
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and speak to this one being skeptical about you waiting that long between sequels.
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I was that way with Avatar too as well. But I'm gonna I'm gonna
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go ahead and throw the first controversial comment out there that number one in May
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of twenty eighteen. I believe I was more excited at the end of that
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month to see Solo, a Star Wars story, and I believe I used
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the weekend that Incredibles two came out to go see that again. And I
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think that additionally, the worm had sort of started to turn on the long
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the long awaited sequel, slash, reboot, slash whatever. By this point,
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I like, for me at least, where I started to question.
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I was like, well, do we really need to go back to these
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things? And so my decision was again wasn't like, oh screw this movie.
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It was like, I'll get to it and then it's just it once.
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Nowadays, in the streaming era, once it goes in the I'll get
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to it. Que stuff continually gets put in front of it. It's the
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reason that bookshelves never empty is because you're always like, oh, well,
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i'll read this after this one, I'll read this after that. You just
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keep adding and adding and adding, and then you lose track. And you
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have a podcast about movies, so we're all constantly putting things on your queue
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in front of other things. It is true. Homework does get in the
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way a lot of times. That is a fact. That's why long time
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listeners will know that if I really want John to watch something, I send
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him a physical copy of the movie with a note that says, love you
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watch this. This is true. This is true, and it works every
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time. So if there's somebody out there that wants me to watch a movie,
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send a message to Tristan over at the Insane Robin and tell them to
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send me a physical copy there. I'll send it. I won't give out
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your address, but I will send it to him. You can to TNP
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headquarters. So I think you need to start a appeal box, Sean and
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give that out and then just people will send you random movies. You got
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to get the capitalized capitalize. I love it. I love it. So
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yeah, I did see this in theaters. I also do have fairly young
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children who are still kind of in that Disney Pixar grasp. And though this
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was the year that Into the Spider Verse came out and was kind of redefining
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what animation could be. And it was in length, yeah, because this
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was the longest one. Was this the longest Pixar film in terms of minutes?
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It feels like it was the longest animated film, and then CG animated
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film, and then Across the Spider Verse came out and it beat it.
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Yeah it so yeah, I saw it again, probably just because it's Pixar.
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You know you you pretty much know what you're gonna get with a Pixar
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movie, and you know, we it enjoyed it, but it's interesting.
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It not that I want to unpack into a bigger discussion, but it feels
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like Disney and Pixar like two points, Disney and Pixar almost kind of looked
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the same at this point, like they're like the visual style is just a
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hair different between the two. And also you have the fact that it is
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a style, and I would rather Pixar be known for a certain you know,
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cinematic storytelling quality, and that is the only constant, not well,
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I know what a character is going to look like in a Pixar movie versus
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again, you know, we'll mention Spider Verse a lot, but something that
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is leaning into being an animated film, playing with the color and the camera
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and the action and the comic bookness and all of that. And Pixar movies
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don't really risk that anymore. They are they are not always photo real,
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but it's just hard when you're playing in this caricature world that these animated films
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fall in, and it's just like they're not taking risks. This doesn't feel
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like a risk. This feels like it made a lot of money on the
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first one, and so we're going to bring out a second one and it
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worked. I mean, we talked about last week about brad Bird's Tomorrowland needing
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to recoup some lot, although that was different production company, but this was
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budgeted for two hundred mill just a little more than Tomorrowland was, and made
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worldwide one point two billion dollars. It print diion with so much money.
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H I M. So that's my soapbox about Pixar. But what do you
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think of that, John? No? I mean, I think that's a
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very fair point. Is Disney the Disney effect is taking place by this point,
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and it's what I mean by that is is Disney's corporate imprint has become
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overbearing and there feels like there's a lot less room for innovation and ingenuity.
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And you know, that's just my opinion, and I think that that is
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probably one of the things that didn't make me excited for Incredibles too, is
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because even in the ads, I I felt like I'd seen this before and
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why why would I you know, I was like, why would there be
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any urgency? As opposed to because it was mentioned earlier into the Spider Verse,
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which okay, Incredibles two made one point two billion dollars, which was,
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you know, point one point one billion less than the Last Jedi,
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which cost one hundred million more to make, and all of that stuff.
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But by this point it's just Disney's in the money the money printing machine phase.
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And since we mentioned Into the Spider Verse earlier, a highly original film
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that made a fraction made like less than a third of what this did,
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but in terms of cultural made almost four hundred. Yeah, but in terms
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of cultural impact, we're still talking about it. We still talk about Into
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the Spider Verse, who was still talking about Incredibles too. And I think
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that is reflected as well in the product in that it does have that feel
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of here, we know the template, we're just going to color inside the
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lines, and we're going to give to you what you expect and you're gonna
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love it because is we're going to market the hell out of it, and
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you're all going to feel like you gotta go see this movie, and you
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know, pack you into the theater. So Tristan this movie. I think
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one of the big differences is this is post two thousand and eight. This
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is post a superhero world where you have Marvel and iron Man and all of
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these superhero movies that you didn't have back when The Incredibly Incredibles was kind of
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new and fresh and a different take on the superhero genre. How do you
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think that stack up in Incredibles too. I've heard that Bradbird was trying to
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focus more on the family aspect, and it's like the fact that the superhero
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is kind of tacked on or in addition to, but he really wanted to
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focus on and we'll get into it. I really want to get your dad
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views of the mother father relationship in this movie. But on the superhero side,
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did it feel like this movie could almost be told without them being supers
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and they're just a sixties family. Oh? I don't know if I would
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go that far, because I think that's a little far. Yeah, that's
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that's a little far. Because I think there's some really great superhero moments in
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this movie where I really like the I really like the idea of Mister Incredible
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taking a backseat to the superhero missions and being more of the stay at home
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dad because I think his interaction with interactions with Jack Jacks are really great.
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Specifically, I think when this came out in twenty eighteen. I had a
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kid who was around the age of Jack Jack at that time, and they
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were like when he was reading to Jack Jack and he fell asleep and then
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Jack Check just smacked him on the face a couple of times to wake him
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up to keep reading. I was like, oh, man, I have
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I have absolutely one percent been there. So there was There's so many moments
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as a dad where I absolutely, in one hundred percent related to mister Incredible.
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But at the same time, the Elastic Girl stuff, specifically the motorcycle
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chase on the with the train, that is a phenomenal piece of action,
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amazing sequence, and I've done Mission Impossible very much. That is that is
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like if we if you were to ask the question where do you see Bradbird,
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it is in that train motorcycle sequence that if Ethan Hunt had superpowers,
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that's how it would have been shot. And that that is Ah, I
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can't I know, I've said this before, said that word before, but
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it is a phenomenal sequence. It is great action, and that alone is
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enough to say no, you know, keep the superhero stuff. But to
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answer your question, yeah, the non superhero stuff was really great, and
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I really liked the frustration that he had, mister Incredible had with teaching dash
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math. I think that's actually the moment that stays with me the most with
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this movie is when he's like, how do they change math? Because this
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is supposed to be like pseudo fifties, pseudo sixties kind of mentality. And
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my mother graduated high school in the sixties and went to middle school in the
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sixties, and that's when they started doing the new math and she has never
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recovered from it because it was a failed experiment. Well, I've been I
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was thinking more about common core and like modern Yeah, I've been through the
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modern day math stuff. And what I can tell you is that the bit
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of advice that my older kids have gotten from their father is do it this
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way and then reverse engineer how they want you to show it game the system,
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because the way I'm teaching you is faster than what they're teaching you,
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and you are learning an additional bit of how to you know, sort of
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like use showmanship to make it through and have people look the other way that
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you made your own rules sort of thing, which maybe is a bad lesson
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to teach your kids, But at the same time, I'm not you know,
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I draw ten squares, divide them in threes multiplied by twelve minus by
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when I could just do one hundred ninety eight, Why the hell am I
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doing boxes for this? Just you just you know, cross this off and
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move that around sort of thing. So the math is math thing that had
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me uproariously because I've been in that exact moment already a couple of times.
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And my kids would watch that scene and laugh because they've seen their dad math
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is math can't change what is? What do they talk about changing math?
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This is dumb? Why are you doing this? And then that aspect of
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the six season. I didn't realize that that had kind of happened before,
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and that so your mom had that kind of experience of here's a new way
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of teaching something that feels like it's old as time, but there's always something
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new. Yeah, there's always some paradigm shift in education that totally doesn't work.
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You know. It's the thing is I think that there's I think this
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gets to one of my criticisms of the movie, though, is Tristan,
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You're absolutely right that that action sequence is great. Like I look at that
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action sequence on its own, I'm like, holy crap. This is an
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absolute you know, master at work here, right, somebody who has complete
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command of how to give direction, how to get what they're looking for and
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make it look fantastic and pace it just right. Credible. You have to
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use the word incredible as much as possible in this podcast. Sorry, I
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apologize, I will I will try harder next time. But you can exercise
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that specific sequence out show it, and that is a brilliant section of film.
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But with the other parenting stuff that you're doing. I never get the
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feeling maybe I'm alone of the three of us here. The problem I look
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at is it doesn't really seem to mesh. It seems like a director who's
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making things work seen by scene, sometimes really well, and then it's it's
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almost like two parallel movies running, and it's like, where is I don't
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know where Bradbird's heart is in this movie. I feel like it's with the
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parenting stuff. I feel like all of the parenting stuff is the parent looking
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musing about what he's been through, and then he knows he has to do
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the incredible adventure stuff, so he does that too, but that's not really
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where his heart is this time. Well again on that quote of him talking
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about, you know, focusing on the parent aspect, but he also talked
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about the reason for not time jumping it because it's been you know, fourteen
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years, so you could have it take place fourteen years later, but instead
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it picks up like months, right, it's like right after the first movie.
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And obviously you don't have to change to the kids, you know,
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they're not older or something like that. But I think he's quoted and saying
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he likes the fact that you didn't have to reinvent a whole bunch of new
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superheroes, Like, obviously you have the newer ones that we see in this
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movie, but you don't have to build the world as much because it hasn't
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been like a decade. So when your director of a superhero movie is saying,
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I didn't want to build the world more than I had to. I
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wanted to focus on the aspects of the family. I think that answers where
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his heart was in this story, not for good or mad, just that's
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where his focus was. But yeah, and you have, like we were
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kind of mentioning earlier, one of the differences in this movie is again the
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technical aspect. When Brad was making the first one, it was like,
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how do we do humans? And can we do long hair in water like
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we want to? And in this one, I mean, I'm sure they
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always pushed the envelope in every single movie they make, they seem to,
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but it was a vastly different experience. I think we got the trained sequence
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because the technology had progressed so much. Although I did hear that they had
18:07
to rebuild all the characters in the new software. The software had completely changed,
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so they couldn't just go into the archive zip disc and pull the Mystery
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Incredible file in. It was a completely new rebuild. But well, I
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think they even had to do that with I think between story story two to
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think, or might even been one to two, I'm not quite sure.
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As you said, yeah, they had to completely recreate it because time had
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passed and technology has grown where they're just like, yeah, they can't import
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this one. You got to you gotta rebuild it with way more polygons,
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right, yeah, polygons, and just how the software works, how you
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can command the character to emote or do whatever. You know, all these
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variables that you're adjusting, and it's I'm sure night and day. Also,
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yeah, it'd be kind of an interesting just thought of Brad coming back to
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animation because his last two movies were live action, so he'd done Mister Impossible
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and Tomorrowland, and so now this movie was announced in twenty fourteen that he
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was coming back to do The Incredibles Too. Sorry, Incredibles Too, know
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the I don't know why they too that up. So, but that's at
19:22
least a four year time span of producing. Obviously, I'm sure we all
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know it's longer than that because these movies take forever to produce. But he's
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kind of starting while he's doing Tomorrowland, getting that script started, kind of
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getting that ball rolling, deciding those those big brushstrokes. But yeah, it
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you know, we'd kind of talked about, you know, him taking over
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Tomorrowland. This was this is obviously his baby. This was his idea that
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he originated in The Incredibles. Where Tristan in this movie, do you feel
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it's still his baby? Maybe it's the baby literally the BA, but do
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you feel like there's a specific aspect of this film that has that bradbird in
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nest besides the train scene. Well, I think in terms of action,
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the train scene is very much there. But in terms of story content,
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and you can tell that this is his baby as and he loves the Incredibles.
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The Incredibles is him and there's a reason why he waited fourteen years,
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because he went on record saying he's like, if I'm going to do an
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incredible sequel, I'm going to wait until I have a really great idea that
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either matches or exceeds the original. And so I truly think it's the whole
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stay at home dad aspect. I think in terms of action, it's elastic
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girl going like crazy, and for his filmmaking technique, but for his baby,
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I think it's mister incredible interacting with Jack Jack. I really do.
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I think those are some really key, heartfelt moments that Bradbird threw himself into.
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I agree. I agree about that, I think, and it is
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one of those things where I think that, yes, this is announced before
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Tomorrowland comes out, but there's almost a sense for me watching this that this
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is the unfortunate thing. I think is that it's too comfortable for Bird to
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be back in here. I feel like, you know what, I think
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that as I who cares how I feel, I think that what I'm seeing
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reflected here is a somebody coming back to something that is safe and he knows
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he has complete control here and given that mission impossible for is Brad Bird coming
21:48
in and making Tom Cruise's dreams come true and then tomorrow Land doesn't go quite
21:56
the way we think he wants it to. This very much feels like a
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director who isn't pushing himself at this point, but rather purposefully taking a step
22:04
back into a safer space where he knows he can exert more influence and he
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knows. It's almost like somebody who is like a boxer, goes up and
22:17
loses the prize fight, so they go back down, but then they take
22:21
on an opponent that's more matched to their level as they climb back up the
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rankings sort of thing. And this feels like something that Bird is just more
22:32
comfortable with and that is not an insult. I think that, if anything,
22:37
this should teach a lesson to some people in creative spaces out there that
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it's okay to have a strong suit. This is obviously where Brad Bird excels.
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Don't feel obliged to go into live action. Do what comes naturally to
22:53
you, do what you're excellent at, and excel at it. And that's
22:59
great. That's what we want you to do. We want you to succeed
23:03
because you gave us Iron Giant, you gave us incredible as you gave us
23:07
Rattui awesome. If this is where it works, by all means, stick
23:11
with it. You tried the live action stuff, maybe we didn't love it
23:14
as much as your animated stuff. Cool, So do animated stuff and we
23:18
will love you for it, and we will love what you do. And
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just stay there, like I'm I mean, obviously, I'm not saying it's
23:23
like mister birds, stay and you're late. I'm not saying something like that.
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I'm saying, like, it's okay to embrace what your best at.
23:30
It's you know, Captain Kirk was never meant to be an admiral. It's
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okay to stay in the chair that your best at. Don't let them promote
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you to live action director, don't let them transfer you. It's his first
23:41
best destiny. Embrace it. Yeah No, And we've seen other directors who,
23:47
yeah, who kind of doubled down, like they didn't have a really
23:51
good release or it didn't quite gel, and then they made another one and
23:55
another one, and it just kept getting worse. And not to say that
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Bradburn couldn't come back to live action with the right story. I think it
24:02
always comes down to story really of his. You know, if it's got
24:07
action in it, it's probably gonna do rather well. But yeah, I
24:11
don't know anything about it except the name. I know his TBA. You
24:15
know. Next picture is called ray Gun gunn. I don't know if it's
24:21
animated. I don't know if it's live action. It sounds sci fi e
24:23
it sounds exactly like the kind of movie title I would expect from a Bradbird,
24:29
you know director. So I'm excited for that. I will see what
24:33
that is around the corner. But yeah, with Tomorrow, not with Tomorland,
24:37
with the with Incredibles too. Yeah, it I think, not that
24:44
we're dancing around it, we're obviously showing we have some criticisms of this movie.
24:48
It's not a perfect movie. It's not I think honestly, part of
24:52
it is just the fact that it's a sequel, and sequels on their own,
24:59
you have this pressure to bigger and better everything and and add more characters
25:03
and add more and the and the story gets less tight. I mean,
25:07
the first movie is like so sharp and so clear on that world it's building.
25:14
It builds just enough world to give you what you need. It's got
25:18
to Really there's no protagonist confusion. It is mister Incredible. It is his
25:22
midlife crisis movie exactly. And not that I'm saying this protagonist confusion in this
25:30
one, but as the world grows, you start to sacrifice minutes of screen
25:36
time like with Helen or do we are we showing more of Bob or are
25:40
we showing the other supers and what's going on in the world. Like,
25:44
every choice you're making is minutes you're spending with not your main character or not
25:48
your main family, and that's something you have to stay on top of.
25:53
So I guess what I'm saying is I feel like a lot of times sequels
25:56
will it's very easy for them to run away with themselves and be like,
26:00
Oh, we're gonna make now we're gonna see the entire world. Look at
26:03
all the characters we can put in this shot with this new technology. But
26:07
story wise, do you guys kind of wish that this was a tighter,
26:11
smaller story obviously still focused on Alasta girl. I would even take a flashback
26:18
of her glory days like that could be incredible see what I did. But
26:22
what do you think, just on the scope how this kind of came together.
26:26
What do you think, Tristan, I don't I don't know if I
26:30
would say that it needs to be smaller, because I don't think this was
26:33
something that you know, failed due to bloat from a story perspective or you
26:41
know, like you know, you mentioned how this is in a post iron
26:45
Man, post dark Night World, and I feel like around the time that
26:49
this came out, we were really suffering from the blue screen I'm sorry,
26:55
excuse me, the blue beam in the sky. Yeah, at the end
27:00
of the movie and a huge CGI fight and the world is going to end.
27:06
That doesn't happen here, you know, like, the world's not going
27:08
to end here. There's the bomb's not going to go off, the beam's
27:12
not in the sky, aliens are going to invade, nothing like that,
27:17
And so I applaud it for not going that route. So I don't think
27:21
it needs to be smaller. I think Will Save the World would be a
27:25
bit too much, a bit too much, and so I really do think
27:29
this stayed within its wheelhouse, stayed where its talents were, and I think,
27:34
to me, mainly if I can go on a tangent a little bit
27:38
after I answer your questions. Tangent it up. You are right, angle
27:44
man moving in tangez. Since we're at the twenty eight minute mark, and
27:49
I have been heaping praise on this movie that this movie is good, it's
27:55
not great, and even though it made a lot of money in a lot
28:00
of people loved it. It got a lot of praise, It got a
28:03
I mean I started reading reviews for it in preparation into this podcast, and
28:07
there was a lot of a lot of critics who were saying this was heap
28:11
with praise. But to me, I think this was a situation of this
28:17
is a good movie with great visuals, fantastic score, great voice acting,
28:25
good story. Okay script, if that makes sense. I mean, there's
28:30
some really great moments. There's some I mean, like we talked about the
28:33
moments, like the stuff between mister Incredible and Jack Jack, you know,
28:37
like everything like that. Those are some really great moments of this stuff with
28:41
Frozene and his wife as a callback to the original being showing a last girl
28:47
being raised from just female protagonist to protagonist in this film is some really great
28:52
stuff. But the script itself just doesn't have the charm of the original,
29:00
and I think that's what it really suffers for me watching this film. John,
29:03
Do you disagree with that? Do you agree with that? What's your
29:07
take on that? I agree. I think that I likewise sort of struggle
29:14
with what is it that doesn't quite gel here? And it's always one of
29:18
those things where as you're thinking through it, you're afraid of like overstating this
29:22
or overstating that. But I think that one of the things that makes it
29:29
feel longer than it actually is. This feels longer than one hundred and eighteen
29:33
minutes. And I think the reason it feels longer than that is because Darren,
29:37
I think you're right. There isn't protagonist confusion here per se, but
29:41
there is not as much of a controlled sense of perspective or focus here.
29:51
It's it's you know, the first one. It's like, oh, well,
29:53
this is you know, mister incredible as midlife crisis movie, and this
29:57
is it's two different stories running parallel to each other exactly, and so it
30:03
almost feels like and like I think, I think, tell me if I'm
30:07
right, if I'm right here, I think when you're saying like you know,
30:11
a smaller film. I almost wonder, as much as I enjoy the
30:15
Elastic Girls stuff on its own merits, I almost wonder if the film benefits
30:21
if we get a little bit less time quote unquote with her, so that
30:26
we see it more from perspective of mister incredile being so incredibly frustrated and not
30:30
knowing what's going on. Well, and when you let the audience in fully
30:36
you don't. You can't understand or respect the idea of that character being completely
30:42
out of it because you know what's going on. And so I think by
30:47
if more effort had been made to obscure what she was going through, through
30:53
whatever way you want to do it, we wind up understanding more what was
31:00
being attempted with mister incredible here, and we feel his frustration more, and
31:04
so the point sort of hammers home more about that. But then at the
31:08
same time, what are you sacrificing when you choose to do that? And
31:14
it's it's it's all of these little choices through there. If anything, if
31:18
I were to go ahead and nitpick something, I think in a sense almost
31:25
that having frozone feels like its own little tiny distraction to it. Frozone feels
31:30
like he's there because he's got to be there because everybody loved Frozone. So
31:33
that feels like a sequel lightest thing where it's like, how am I going
31:37
to work Frozone into the story. It's okay to just bring him in at
31:38
the end, but because it was Sam Jackson, everybody loved Frozone and he
31:41
was a scene stealer last time. Oh well, we got to have Frozone
31:45
in this as much as we can. And it's like, to your point,
31:48
Tristan, those that's valuable slices of time. You're you're sacrificing here with
31:52
all of this stuff. So it feels like just sort of like a death
31:55
by a thousand cuts sort of thing. Yeah, No, I really like
31:59
that aspect you said about more time with Bob, just his point of view,
32:05
Like again with the whole train sequence in the beginning. I mean,
32:07
obviously he trusts Helen, he trusts that she's like super capable, but this
32:13
is still where superheroes are kind of illegal and not quite shouldn't be like out
32:19
and about, and so he's at home with the kids and he hears about
32:22
this explosion and this train, like he doesn't know what like show like literally
32:28
like you're saying, just his point of view. He has no idea if
32:30
she's okay, what's going on. And it's kind of like that firefighter mentality
32:37
of like you know, the families at home and you know mom or dad
32:40
is out doing their job, but it's really dangerous and there's actually that risk
32:45
and you know there's there's They already kind of dabbled into it in the first
32:51
movie of him thinking he had lost them. You know, we've already experienced
32:53
that particular emotion. But yeah, the the death by a Thousand cuts.
33:00
I think that's what I was really trying to say. With the sequel nous
33:04
Is and again, like again, like you said, you're putt you're putting
33:08
my thoughts into good words, John, This is very helpful, but you
33:14
know, yeah, spending time with Frozone is time we're not spending with Bob
33:16
or Alasta Girl, even Edna Mode. I love Edna Mode, but that's
33:22
time we're not spending with our main characters. And so as a that's what
33:25
I meant when I was saying sequels, there there grow. The problem is
33:30
they're they're stuck with trying to keep what worked in the first one. But
33:36
like, honestly, like you said, you know, you could do the
33:38
entire movie without Frozone and without Edna and without like like why bring those characters
33:44
back? And again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't, like I understand
33:47
the directing choice, but by doing that, you are not allowing new characters
33:52
to come in and really have more time or enriched time with your main characters.
33:59
And it's all just these trade offs of of minutes. And even if
34:01
you bump it up two one hundred and eighteen minutes, there's still only so
34:05
many that you can keep the attention. But yeah, a good story,
34:10
but an okay Scriptum, well, oh hey, we're not quite running third
34:16
yet, so let's let's jump into the two other things I mainly wanted to
34:21
talk about is we have the music, but I'll get to that second.
34:24
But also the twist, So we have the twist of the villain. It's
34:30
it's not really surprising anybody, Like I didn't like obviously know what was going
34:37
to happen because I didn't read the script ahead of time. But you know,
34:40
your hero being surprised by haha, it's me is not anything super new
34:45
what did you think of that aspect of the story slash script Tristan with the
34:52
screen flavor, You know, it was one of those things where I saw
34:54
it coming a mile away. And that's not necessarily a criticism because I think
35:00
too many people use that as a criticism whe they're just like, oh,
35:06
yeah, no, I totally figured it out, like they the filmmakers didn't
35:10
pull the wool over my eyes were trying to. Yeah, it's it's one
35:15
of those things where it's just like, yeah, like if you can guess
35:17
it, that usually means that they're doing something right, that they're following the
35:22
rules of filmmaking and story progression. You have to bread krumm it. Otherwise
35:29
your audience is completely blindsided and they're like that doesn't make sense, like that
35:32
little Johnny is the villain, like we've never even seen them for three scenes.
35:37
You have to ease your audience into that kind of a twist, right,
35:40
And with that twist comes the sacrifice of character development, because you're developing
35:46
one character and then turning them into another. Right. I think that's the
35:50
problem is that with the twist coming so late in the film, the twist
35:57
sacrifice the character development of the real villain. So once we get that real
36:01
villain, it's just like it's a rush to the climax. And I think
36:06
that's why thing not really an info dump, otherwise you have no time to
36:08
learn. Yeah, and I think that really hurt the movie, and I
36:12
that hurt the story and it's a it's a trope that a lot of movies
36:15
fall into, a lot of action films fall into, and um, this
36:20
one was no different. And even though I'm not criticizing the twist, I
36:24
think that's one thing that I think if they if they revealed the if the
36:30
if they revealed the antagonist and the second act, it would allowed us to
36:36
build more to the climax, and it made it more impactful. I agree.
36:44
I think additionally, if they had revealed the antagonist to the audience but
36:51
not to alast a girl that I can get done with that, that that's
36:55
a much better progression because that introduces tension with the audience because we know something
37:02
the main character does exactly and you can and that buys you time to have
37:08
a few fakes where it's like, hey, why don't you come over here?
37:09
You're like, oh, they're gonna review. Oh they didn't reveal it
37:12
at that time. Okay, okay, okay, maybe the next scene that
37:15
they're together, and that builds your anticipation with it, and then you can
37:19
have that that you know, the twirling mustache haha, I am the villain
37:22
moment right before the climax, and then you have that all that good will
37:29
built through the the the end of it. Yeah, no, that that
37:34
would be Again, these are all nuances in the story. It's still the
37:37
same kind of story where we're talking about, right, but yeah, not
37:42
And that's kind of part of this script or story is the mystery, like
37:45
who is the screenslaver? Like what is their goal? Like we spend so
37:50
much time not knowing as an audience member that by the end we're kind of
37:53
like, oh, so you kind of batmanned your way into this life because
38:00
you parents died, and like we don't care by the time it's actually given
38:04
to us, it's so late in the movie that we'd like these are ten
38:08
gentle characters at best, the you know, the brother and sister, Like
38:13
I never really cared about them at all through the entire movie, Like they're
38:16
just they're not supers, they're not part of the family. H Yeah,
38:22
so it that's I think a major thing of this movie is again when things
38:25
are revealed, what the paces of the plot, and it's a long,
38:30
a long plot. Well we get Michael Dick, you know, coming back
38:35
for another amazing score. I think he does a good job of still using
38:39
the motifs you know, obviously established in the in the first one. You
38:45
know, again it's a sequel for him too, so he's revisiting his previous
38:50
work. And I mean, I don't think there was anything that like super
38:53
stood out to me. But to do there of you have something in the
38:57
music like a queue or a or a moment. Was there a Superman moment
39:04
that impacted you? No, the score is fine. It's I you know,
39:09
it's not something where I'm like, oh, this is a great score.
39:13
I was. My reaction was more along the lines of it works,
39:15
it's cool. I didn't There wasn't anything I walked away with where it was
39:21
so fresh and new that I had to have it sort of thing. You
39:25
know, I think that all of the really fresh stuff was in the first
39:29
one, and so this yeah, you know, it's one of those eternal
39:34
back and forth feeling argument blah blah blah things. That happens with sequels,
39:38
where sometimes you're really lucky and you get a sequel that breaks the mold and
39:45
does something different or really leans into things and makes it feel new again,
39:52
or you have a sequel that is Iron Man Too that just sucks and I
39:57
never want to talk about it again. Incredibles Too is not that. But
40:00
Incredibles two also is not The Godfather Part two or The Empire Strikes Back or
40:05
anything like that. It's more in that. Again, that's safe space of
40:10
you know what you're going to get. This is nothing that's going to challenge
40:14
you, but you'll still enjoy it. This is the you know, this
40:19
is the I went back to the same restaurant because I enjoyed it the first
40:22
time I went. I expect the experience to be replicated. I'm not going
40:27
there because I want to try something fresh. I want to go there because
40:30
I know I'm going to be satisfied. But with that knowledge you're going to
40:35
be satisfied, you are sacrificing the opportunity to be surprised. And that's the
40:40
type of sequel that all the way from everything else we've talked to to even
40:46
the score, that's where we are with it and the score is in that
40:51
exact same Wheelhouse of Jacquino comes back and it's like, yeah, I've been
40:54
here before. Okay, I know what to do, and I'm not going
40:57
to disappoint anybody, but this is what I've been a couple of weeks.
41:00
It wasn't a huge stretch, now, right, he wasn't composing Vader on
41:04
the Murder Express at the end of Rogue one or something like that. Vader
41:07
on the Murder Express. I like that. All right, Well, we're
41:10
round and third, So I want to kind of give this moment to you
41:15
guys for any kind of final thoughts or things we didn't hit. So let's
41:19
start with you, Tristan, any other thoughts you had on this movie,
41:22
and just take us right right into your rating. I think we explained it
41:30
pretty well. I think we went over what we liked and what we didn't
41:32
like. There's a lot of great moments in this movie. There's a lot
41:37
of great character moments in this movie. It's a good story, but it's
41:42
an okay script. It is phenomenal animation, some really one of a kind
41:47
of action sequences, but it does not capture the essence of the original.
41:54
And I think after fourteen years of waiting, you expect something two because this
42:00
isn't a cash grab. You cannot call this a cash grab after fourteen years.
42:07
This is something that was waited for, plotted, thought about, and
42:13
just really laid down and you know, put on a record, and you
42:17
know, Bradbird's in a room just you know, sit in a bean bag
42:21
chair thinking about what this movie is going to be. And so there's no
42:24
excuses. And while this is a good movie, as I said at the
42:28
beginning, this is a good movie, not a great movie. I give
42:30
it a solid three stars with no prejudice. Awesome. Now, now,
42:38
John, I'd like to go to you, but we missed you last time
42:42
when we were talking about the Incredible. So I want your double rating.
42:46
I want to know what number you're giving. I want it. I want
42:51
it number you're rating for Incredibles and Incredibles too. No, I you know
42:57
what, I'll no people to find me on social media to hear my rating
43:00
in the first Incredibles. That's it. Yeah, I have to reach out
43:02
to me there. And if you don't know where to reach me, you
43:05
haven't been listening to everywhere I am. So never mind. I'm the villain
43:08
now exactly exactly, let me put these goggles on you. Um, okay,
43:15
give me Incredibles too. Then I would say that with Incredibles too.
43:20
Ill you know this is a lot like Tomorrowland. I want to like it
43:23
more than I do. I really wanted to like it more than I do,
43:27
especially since this was my first time watching it. I was like,
43:29
Okay, I know how successful this was. There's distance. Nobody's opinion can
43:34
influence me here. I'm coming into this as cold as I possibly can.
43:37
There's no hype coming around it. Maybe I should have had a little hype
43:40
coming around it. Maybe if I'd seen it in the theater, a little
43:43
of that momentum would have carried me through. But I think that it was
43:47
somebody in the in in one of their reviews, said that if the title
43:52
were okay, here, I'm reading it from this Michael Phillips from the Chicago
43:57
Tribune. One of the things he wrote was the title We're Satisfactories too,
44:04
it would be about right. I think that's correct. I would give this
44:08
a three. I watched it, Granted I was a little bit tired.
44:14
But if I'm truly engaged by a film, I won't be dozing off by
44:19
you know, two thirds of the way through it and waking myself and say,
44:22
oh, right, right right, I gotta finish. I gotta finish
44:23
this, right. So yeah, this is a three out of five.
44:30
Yeah, I think. I mean just the fact that I will rewatch Incredibles
44:36
over and over. It's it's always fun. It's one of those if it
44:38
was on, if my kids put it on and I walk by the TV,
44:42
I'm like, oh I could. I could spend the next sixty minutes
44:45
sitting down and watching the rest of this. Like it's a joy every moment,
44:49
every scene, this one. I mean, we saw it in theaters.
44:55
I don't think we even know, we don't even own it, but
44:59
but it's yeah, it's like we've all said. I think we've all kind
45:02
of saying the same thing. I am also giving it a three man That
45:07
train scene gives it at least one point, right just for that because it
45:09
said I almost wish that was the end. Like I get that the end
45:14
has to have the family working together, but if that sequence or that energy
45:20
or that amazingness was at the end, because it was kind of a lackluster
45:23
end. Again, it had a lot of amazing things going on with the
45:27
ship and the plane and all of that, but it was the difference and
45:32
maybe I can't have my you know cake and eat it two because the train
45:37
is Alasta girl in her element. The ending is we have to find a
45:42
thing for everybody to do, and that's a very different formula for your finale.
45:47
Granted it it can work really well like sometime. I mean, we
45:51
talk about Star Wars has this issue where you know, look at the end
45:54
of episode one, you have the you know, the space battle, the
45:59
lights aber battle, the grass battle, and there's a fourth one, oh
46:05
and the you know, the other group palace. You have four battles going
46:08
on at the exact same time. It's it's insane, And you kind of
46:13
have the same with this where there's a lot going on and Jack Jack's got
46:15
to be there. And so yeah, I'm going to give it a three.
46:20
I can't go below that. I think there's still a lot of good
46:23
aspects to it. But um, but I'm really hoping ray Gun is animated.
46:29
I again, I haven't looked up anything on it, but I'm hoping
46:30
that he's doing another animated film and leaning into animation. And because I man
46:38
if if Bradbird gets unleashed and could really just tell an animated story, drive
46:45
his team to tell something original that he's thought up, and really play with
46:50
what that visual medium can do. I think it's going to be amazing and
46:53
blow this out of the water. Maybe not make the billions, because that's
46:59
just the p x our machine, and we all knew that was coming when
47:01
this movie came out, but I think it would still still be amazing.
47:07
Well, that is it for the Bird House. I mean that joke is
47:12
still one of the best ones we've come up with here on House Slights.
47:15
But next week we're going to try something a little different. We're going to
47:19
be going into the House of Kevin Reynolds, but we're going to kind of
47:25
go just to the rooms we'd like to visit, you know, those ones
47:30
that are unlocked and a joy to watch. But starting in nineteen ninety one,
47:36
with Robin Hood, Prince of these here On House Slights, join the
47:40
Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.