Latest / The Divorce Decision Podcast / Episode 4: How To Respond When You're Feeling Defensive

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Episode 4: How To Respond When You're Feeling Defensive · The Divorce Decision Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Lucky in Love, a podcast where we explore what really makes and breaks relationships.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you're head over heels in love, caught up in the middle of some relationship drama, or just trying to figure it all out, you're in the right place.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to be lucky in love?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Join me.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Carrie Hoskins.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's jump in.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey there, friends.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are going to be talking about defensiveness.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically, how you can respond when you are feeling defensive.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I love this topic for several reasons.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is just that quite simply, most of us can use a little bit of help in this area.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was working on writing down my thoughts for today's episode, my daughter Avery happened to call me and we started having a conversation about it.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she actually shared with me that this is something that she's been personally working on in her own life for, you know, I don't remember how long she said, maybe it was a few months or a year or whatever.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, she's been working on this.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she said the reason why is because she recognizes that defensiveness is a conversation killer.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And her thought is that most people's natural response to things that they don't like to hear is to be defensive.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that you have to train yourself to be less defensive.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys, my mind was like, wow, blown right there.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: She's 21 years old.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but I can tell you for me, I was definitely not that self-aware at 21.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was also not really thinking about things like that at her age.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely had a very proud mom moment right there.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So shout out to my daughter, Avery, for being so just kind of tuned in and self-aware.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the reasons why we're talking about defensiveness is because it is a really significant issue in a lot of relationships.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Defensiveness does affect all of the relationships that you have in your life: family relationships, your co-working relationships, and friendships.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I personally believe that it has the most impact on your romantic, committed relationships, just by virtue of the fact that it's a romantic relationship where we are interacting the most, communicating a lot, which means there's a lot of opportunity potentially for there to be defensiveness.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And also in romantic relationships, there's a different level of intimacy and interdependence on one another because we are dependent on each other to fulfill certain needs and desires.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so when defensiveness is occurring a lot in the relationship, it can have a detrimental effect on that relationship.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So much so, in fact, that it is considered one of the four horsemen of a relationship.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will be doing an entire episode dedicated to this, but the four horsemen, which are contempt, defensiveness, criticizing, and stonewalling, all four of those are the four horsemen behaviors.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And once these come into your relationship, it means that your relationship is in a lot of trouble.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually one of the biggest predictors of divorce in married couples.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this is one of my missions here is to help people not get to that point, or to recognize that you have and hopefully start course correcting and turning it around.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what typically happens is that there's criticism in a relationship, and then that's followed by defensiveness.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if that goes unchecked over time, contempt and stonewalling behaviors come in.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when you have the four horsemen.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I would like to differentiate between occasional defensiveness and chronic defensiveness.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: The occasional defensiveness or behavior, all of us have it, all of us have done it, and it definitely is a conversation killer.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it can also lead to an argument because what happens is one person gets defensive, they kind of lash out and will often shift blame, point fingers, turn things around.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then the other person now suddenly becomes defensive.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have two defensive people who are trying to have a conversation.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, it likely turns into an argument, which is one of those things that we are trying to avoid.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where chronic or default defensiveness kind of takes it to the next level.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: This shows up in relationships where one person, like this is literally their default, they will often respond in a very defensive way.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this does a couple of things.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, it makes it really difficult to problem solve, to fix issues and talk about issues in your relationship.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: It also makes it challenging for the other partner because the other partner will start to avoid hard conversations because they don't want to deal with it and they can predict what's going to happen or what's not going to happen in the conversation.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so really important discussions tend to be avoided.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not good for, you know, in the long run for your relationship.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're someone who you kind of think that you lean more on that defensive side of the spectrum, I would suggest that you start paying attention and really kind of coming up with why do you think you respond so defensively, so easily?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually several reasons why somebody's default might be to be more defensive.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is just temperament.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you were born like that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: The second reason why is because it is a learned behavior.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you had a parent or a caregiver who was often defensive, it is really likely that you picked up on some of that and have incorporated that into your own way of thinking and way of being.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a child's natural response to an overly negative parent or a parent that was highly critical or judgmental.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because as children, we have really no way to defend ourselves.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to give our reasons.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And giving reasons helps you feel in control and like you have some kind of power.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for children, they oftentimes don't have control and don't have power.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so then this kind of bleeds into their grown-up adult relationships.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: It can also be a symptom of a bigger, more serious personality disorder.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of reasons why someone may lean towards the defensive side of things.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you do when you're in a conversation or someone has made a comment and you feel defensive?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the worst thing you can do is act out defensively because it shuts down the conversation.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said before, it can lead to more arguments.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the first step is to become aware.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You have to notice that you are getting defensive.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Most of us can feel it in our body.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I feel it in my chest or in my stomach, and I recognize defensive thoughts.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: For me, my go-to is like shifting blame.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, oh, well, you did this last week, so why are you pointing it now out now?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, if you hadn't done XYZ, I wouldn't have done ABC, right?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or whatever it is.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so once I see or like experience those thoughts in my head, I know that I am about to respond defensively.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the second step is to not respond, not in the moment.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: You got to bite your tongue and take a deep breath.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Refrain from shifting blame.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Refrain from flipping it around on them and pointing the finger.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, here's some suggestions.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Acknowledge what they've said.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: You want them to know that you heard them, regardless of how they said it, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is maybe you can ask them how they're feeling about it and or ask them, how would you like to proceed?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like what would you like me to be doing differently?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you, if the idea of you not saying anything brings up defensiveness just hearing it, that is likely a sign that this is something that you may want to consider looking at.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Something that I do is I will say, ooh, I'm feeling really defensive right now.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I need a minute so that I can collect my thoughts.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I do in that minute?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I try to figure out what it is about what they just said that is making me feel criticized.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because most of us respond defensively when we feel like our character or our behavior is being attacked or criticized.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to figure out what it is about what they just said that's triggering me.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for me personally, I am a people pleaser.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I'm in my late 40s now, and this is definitely something that I am doing less because I've been working on it for so long.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I still have a hard time if I feel like I've disappointed someone or if my behavior has let someone down or I've not done something right.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if I feel like my actions or behaviors are being criticized because I've done something wrong, I immediately will get defensive, like inside of myself.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my husband and I were talking about this last night, actually, at our sunset date in the hot tub.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked him, how often does he think or perceives me as being defensive?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And he said he doesn't think I get defensive very often, which thank God, because I'm working on it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I can tell you that I feel defensive in my body more than I respond defensively now.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So at least I'm making progress in that way.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now look, there are going to be times when it feels very unjustified.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like you lit have legitimate like justifications or reasons for doing or saying whatever it is that has been done or said.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you feel like you're oftentimes wrongly accused of being defensive, like if your significant other is pointing it out a lot.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: What I suggest you do is you wait until things are in a neutral spot, you're doing really good, and then you have a conversation about it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you bring it up at another time.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you say, you know, remember that thing that you said a couple days ago?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've been really thinking about it and I'd like to have a conversation.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would really like you to hear what I have to think and say about it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to hear what you think and feel about it and what you have to say about it, but I would like to have a conversation.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of separating the conversation from the moment that it happens is one of the best strategies for being able to talk about something without fueling the defensive behaviors.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, just really quickly in review, it when it happens in real time, become aware that this is how you are feeling like you want to respond.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Bite your tongue, acknowledge what they've said, ask them how they would like you to be a little bit different, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you just wait and you revisit the conversation at another time.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of days ago, uh, my husband and I had gone out of town for a wedding and we were flying home, and he said, Hey, I think I'd like to have my dad over tonight for dinner.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, sure, no problem.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're both gonna be so tired, but that's fine.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we came up with the menu idea, we created a list, a shopping list together, and we got home and I jammed over to the grocery store, grabbed a few things, got in, got out, great.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Get home, I go up, take a shower, I come downstairs, and my husband is standing in front of the refrigerator looking a little bit perturbed.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Where are the eggs?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean, where are the eggs?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have eggs.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, damn it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I hate it when you do this.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wish you would look in the uh refrigerator before you go to the grocery store.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: In that moment, I got really defensive.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say anything, but in my body, I felt like, what the hell?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you had just told me that we needed eggs, I would have bought eggs, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't say anything because I didn't want to ruin the evening.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that whatever I said was gonna come across defensively.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I simply said, okay, well, I'm sorry that we don't have eggs.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can we make it without?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or should I really quick run to the grocery store and go grab some?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we did not, in fact, need the eggs.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: He went ahead and made us an amazing dinner.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's such a great cook.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: He made us this amazing dinner and we had a great night.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: The next day, I said, hey babe, can we talk about the eggs?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: In reality, it wasn't the comment about the eggs that bothered me.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was the, you know, you never look in the refrigerator before going to the grocery store comment that bothered me.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about it and we came up with a solution moving forward.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you all are curious, now you will always see in our refrigerator half and half butter, coffee, and eggs.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: That is now on our always to have in the refrigerator list.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So problem solved.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I bringing this up?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm bringing this up for a couple of reasons.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, had I been defensive, like I felt like in the moment, it would have definitely put a damper on the rest of the evening.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, had I done that, the conversation that we had the next day would have been totally different because we would have likely gotten into an argument the night before.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this way we were able to talk about it and problem solve with no like no negative emotion.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: There were no hard feelings, it wasn't a drama at all.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very cut and dry conversation that was done in like under five minutes.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the way that you handle these things in the moment certainly has an impact on how your relationship feels on a daily basis and how effectively you're able to communicate with your partner.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to have open, good communication in order to have a relationship that is healthy and happy.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what do you do if you feel like your partner or spouse is like accusing you of being defensive a lot or kind of points it out in you a lot and you don't feel like it's justified?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: What I would do is sit down and have a conversation with them about it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would suggest doing this during one of your relationship check-ins.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what a relationship check-in is, please go back and listen to episode two, how to create a relationship that feels effortless.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I cover what it is and how to do it in that episode.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I would suggest having this conversation during the relationship check-in.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you can even, you know, broach the subject of, you know, look, I've noticed that you're telling me that I'm being defensive a lot.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like I'm being very defensive in my body, but obviously I'm coming across that way to you.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do we fix this?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there something specifically that I'm saying that makes you think that?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is there maybe a facial expression?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it my tone of voice?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is it about the way I'm communicating that makes you think that I'm being defensive?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'd really like to be able to have conversations with you and let you know what I'm thinking and feeling.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's how you have that conversation.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to bring up that if your partner or spouse was in a relationship before with someone whose default was defensiveness, they are probably pretty sensitive to it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they are going to like their brains are going to jump to the conclusion that you're being defensive because this is what they're used to from their past partner.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so they are definitely going to be more sensitive to any type of defensive behavior.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're going to be on the lookout for it, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: But have the conversation, get on the same page.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me, this will help your relationship more than you realize.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to leave you with a little bit of a challenge, whether or not you think this is something that you struggle with.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to challenge you to start paying attention over the next week.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: How many times a day do you feel yourself becoming defensive?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And are you okay with that amount?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And how are you responding?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you responding defensively?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, really the challenge is to help you become more self-aware around how you're responding to people when you don't necessarily like what they're having to say, or when you feel like you're being criticized unfairly or judged or attacked unfairly.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my friends, that is what I have for you today.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to talking to you next week.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, if you're at a crossroads in your relationship and you do not know what to do, maybe you're wondering if it can work, maybe you're not even sure if that's what you want.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have some good news for you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to figure this out alone.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I invite you to go check out my 12-week coaching program called Before You Break Up.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of our time together, you are either going to feel more connected to your partner or spouse, or you're going to have the clarity and the confidence to know that parting ways is the best choice.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So stop what you're doing and go visit kahaskins.com to learn more.