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The Voice That Breaks Chains · Stuck No More Voices

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, hey, welcome.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: It's Duck.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: No More podcast, and I'm Teresa Croft, so glad that you could join us.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I think this is the first podcast I've done away from my studio.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: See, we're trying to get you.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm in Southern California, my guest is just over there, but I thought what a great chance to do a podcast.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: That, I really think, is I have a past.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I don't always talk about it, but we're going to dive deep into relationship, into marriage, when something happens.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, stick around.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by TeresaCroftcom.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Be sure to go there and get a free voice confidence workbook.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, let me introduce you to Hannah Abbott.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Hey, hannah, good to see you, girl, a little breeze going.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Hannah is a licensed speech language pathologist.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: She's a keynote speaker with an amazing keynote and, of course, she's also host of her own, the Echo and Encourage podcast.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: She helping to use your voice, to destroying barriers and doubt and everything else.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, anna, it's so cool to see you.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I'm so honored to be here with you, T, and your audience.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we actually are in the same location, but I wanted you to be able to get a good look at Hannah, because she's got some messages for you and this isn't an accident if you're listening to this right now or if you're listening live.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So, hannah, let's dive right into it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Hannah's at this Eden Retreat hosted by Jessica Shakur.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you, jessica.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, we got to talking and we had something very similar, but Hannah had a different story.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: So we're going to, if can we just dive right in, hannah, let's dive right in.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about what happens when you get entrapped in a relationship where the man has not dealt with his broken issues, so he can't properly love a woman.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: So, hannah which I love about Hannah is she found a way to escape.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So why don't you just give us the kind of framework we're going to talk about relationships and how it steals your voice, okay, so hang in with me.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So, hannah, tell us kind of about the start of your journey, maybe even some background, but leading up, I think, the foundation of leading up to your marriage.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: So some background is that I grew up a pastor's daughter.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: My dad always put my family before the church because if our family fell apart then ministry would fall apart.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So I grew up with life in the glass house.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: But it was actually a beautiful experience because of my dad's heart and I remember growing up in different churches.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: We moved around a lot.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: There was a couple that I met at one of the churches and they looked like such a beautiful couple and I was captivated by them.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Come to find out the wife needed to exit that marriage.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: There were things where there's grounds for a divorce which is not always often talked about.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: It's not just when there's infidelity, but it's also when there's neglect, when there's verbal abuse, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Are you still there?
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: T Okay, I can't see you, so maybe it's just me there.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: So what happened was my parents helped encourage this lady through exiting her marriage and I was able to learn about different Bible verses and passages that support women through exiting marriages.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: You know how the Bible passage that says God hates divorce that's often used out of context.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: God hates divorce.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: That's often used out of context because it was actually.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: It was actually God speaking to the men who were unfaithful to their wives and then the wives were then discarded and they were not accepted by society and God's heart was postured as oh, my heart hurts.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I hate what divorce does, and so that is often taken out of context.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: That's a key right there, what she just said, because you may be in a situation where, well, god hates divorce, but God hates abuse too.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So Hannah explained that to me, and so sometimes even your abuser can use scripture improperly.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: So go on.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean to interrupt, but I just really that's.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: That's a major nugget in what we're going to be talking about.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is gold.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: It's so good to read the Bible in context and to understand God's heart with this.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And when the Bible talks about if the unbeliever departs, let him depart, that's not just saying that if you're married to someone and they decide to leave you one day, then you're free.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: It's also talking about are they departing from the marriage covenant, which is to honor you as Christ's bride?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: And God, his heart, is so big and beautiful with this topic, and so I was able to study these passages and see my friend walk through divorce, walk through what I thought looked like the most beautiful marriage on the outside, but really behind closed doors there's things that does not honor God, and my parents helped her.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And so fast forward to me dating more, eventually getting engaged and married.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I always had in the back of my mind if I ever need support, I've got my parents, I've got my friend who now leads a ministry with Sarah McDougall, wilderness to Wild, helping women work through understanding what's a healthy relationship, what's not, what's abuse, what's not, what are the steps to get safe and to think through this clearly and understanding biblical principles.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So I had my friend in my back pocket on speed trial whoever I would ever need her, and so I'm so grateful that I grew up with such an incredible support system that if I were to ever need to access it, I was able to access it, and in fact, I ended up needing to access those resources which not everyone's been able to access.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I've met so many women who, they say, either the church shamed them because of their divorce or they had no support to exit, or they wish they had the resources, or they're too.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: They feel too weak to leave now they've been there so long.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Or they're believing the lies that because their spouse didn't cheat, then they can't leave.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: But they're not understanding the biblical full context of what does abuse really look like?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Also, we know that emotional abuse also lights up the same pain center in the brain as getting physically hit.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And so you may not have bruises on the outside that people can see, but you definitely undergo health trauma and challenges when there is abuse at play.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think I need to say this.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: We're not talking about just common disagreements and have rough times with your marriage, and we're talking about men or women who actually control you, who use psychological tactics to keep you in a cage and over time, you become voiceless.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Now there's two different stories running here.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Hannah had resources where I didn't, and the longer you're in the marriage or so I may be talking to someone the harder it is to get out.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, but let me let's just share how that backup resources helped you from being chained in a marriage that would have done nothing but stifle you even more.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So, starting off, I had my counseling sessions once a week that I had already been attending prior to marriage, and most of the sessions I spent saying everything that was happening and asking my therapist what am I doing wrong?
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Like, let me fix this, I want this to be a healthy marriage.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Like, just tell me what I can fix.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And what would happen is we'd get through each session and she'd say, hannah, you showed up well, you didn't do anything wrong that warranted or deserved that level of response or reaction.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: And so I started to see a pattern where I kept bringing things like, please, let it be me.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: If it can be me, then I know I can fix this, I know I can surrender and get help.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I'll take all the blame, just let it be me.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: But the theme was Hannah, you keep holding your space and you're losing your energy and this is not going to be space, and you're losing your energy, and this is this is not going to be, uh, an honoring God type of life If you're always having to hold your space and stand up for yourself and um, so that that was one piece.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I had my counselor, and I remember you did get married, though.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got married.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I did get married and the divorce finalized in July 2024.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: So I got married August 2022.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: So in the midst of getting married, when did the red light bulbs just come, so blaring in your face and on the well, right as I was getting into the getaway car for the honeymoon, someone went up to me and they do not remember saying this.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It was the.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Holy Spirit.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: They put their hand on me and they said Hannah, I wonder what atrocities you're about to uncover.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: They have no recollection of this, but I knew it was the Holy Spirit preparing my heart.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So I decided to just keep both eyes open and to go into this prayerfully and to take as much data as I needed.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: At the time I felt like, okay, this is a Holy Spirit download.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: As a pastor's daughter, as a preacher that guest preaches, as a keynote speaker, I felt like, oh no, am I not going to be invited to preach if I end up getting a divorce?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And I just had that.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: The discernment of this does not.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Something does not feel right in my gut.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: But anyways, on the flight to the honeymoon I noticed something and I can't exactly put words to it.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: And I can't exactly put words to it, but I knew in my spirit okay, this is not going to be someone whose character aligns with what I thought I was marrying.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: It was on the honeymoon that things happened.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Things were said, where I quickly saw as the person the atrocities that were starting to happen as the person.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: The atrocities that were starting to happen and it happens in patterns, it happens pretty consistently and it increases when you hold your space or you seek accountability to happen, and so I knew.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Then the resources came through the counselor, then I called my friend and I didn't, you know, talk too much about this with my parents.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I mostly talked to my counselor and my friend and I just, every step of the way, got people involved who needed to be involved.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Whether it was moving my things out of a house or getting only my name on the lease, there were different people at play, but my friend, each step of the way, helped me make emails and texts as far as getting logistics in place, so that I didn't have to have so much energy taken from me, but I could just do it.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So that's advice for someone who maybe is in the process of getting married.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: And the thing that amazed me about Hannah is she had safety issues set up.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I can look back and say I wish I had marriage counseling, I wish I had safety things.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So we'll talk about that.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Some of you are like, oh, that's great, but I've been in this for like 25 years and there might be different listeners on our podcast and live that have a different story, but I still think you can find hope with how Hannah drew the line and got out.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: So tell us how you started to draw, you started to notice something and you started to draw the line.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: So I started to notice patterns specifically with emotional abuse, and I started to hold my space more.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: And when you say hold your space, were you talking about?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Just so someone can ask is that like setting boundaries?
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, for example, I was told Hannah, for someone who preaches so much, where's the grace?
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: And I said I do not throw my pearls to swine.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: And so it's taking biblical principles about.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Look at what Jesus did.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was a God that was gracious, but he also dusted his sandals where he was not welcomed and he did not throw his pearls to swine.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: There was a time and a place for his sacrifice.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: But he also demonstrated biblical boundaries and I think it's so important for us to also make boundaries with how we're treated and what words are spoken over us and what we give authority to.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And I kept claiming the authority that Jesus gave me One story I was also told the Bible passage about Ruth staying with Naomi wherever you go, I will go.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Your God will be my God.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: His family had sent me that and I responded and I said that is such a beautiful story.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: I said something along the lines of Ruth honored Naomi and Naomi honored her back.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: The difference is that they stayed in an honoring relationship where they were both honoring, and you do not.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: It's not biblical to stay with a spouse who doesn't honor you.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: And they're repeatedly dishonoring you, dishonoring the covenant, breaking the covenant.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: That's not a Ruth and Naomi legacy.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: And God, I believe.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: He's called me to be obedient and I was not.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I would not have been obedient if I had stayed in that marriage.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I had to put put God first with that, and I think it's it's so important to know the context of your Bible and the Bible stories so that you can speak that truth into your situation.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I think a lesson that I wish someone would have told me earlier is when you say yes, when you really mean deep down, it's a no, you lose yourself and it sends a signal to your brain that you can't trust yourself To be able to trust yourself.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I see you, hannah, trusting yourself.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe you didn't feel like it, but you had resources to reinforce.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: This isn't right.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So finish out your story and then let's see if we can't help those that are already in it, and maybe some biblical kernels that we could help them either survive it or get out of it.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Sorry, got to say it guys yes.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So there was separation.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: There's something called gray walling, where someone may try to keep coming back in your life, whether it's another cycle of love bombing, and you need to just keep things down to business with the essentials.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: You need to put procedures in place to keep your mind focused in place, to keep your mind focused.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: One other thing that really helped me was a huge layer of healing.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: It was EMDR therapy, and it's where there's bilateral stimulation.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: And so I did the butterfly taps because at the time, you know, I still had headaches from a previous brain injury that I've since been healed from, and they use flashy yes, flashy lights for some people, but for me it was bilateral taps.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And you pull up a memory and you tell the therapist where the pain is in your body and you describe the worst part of that narrative and you start tapping and eventually the pain moves throughout your body and your brain comes up with a new narrative, and one narrative that I kept working through was I felt so unworthy and the images of my wedding day with people that had flown all the way from Hawaii to California, my Ohana, and then there was just such a short marriage of seven months before the final separation.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Just a lot of shame attached and tapping through, and my body was able to work out the new narrative of yes, I am worthy, look at how much God loves me, look at all the people he put in my life to to have a new life, look at how my story is already helping women know their worth and value and to treat themselves, and how God sees them.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: And your brain brings to your memory all of the ways that you are worthy.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And so I private paid for EMDR out of pocket.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Emdr out of pocket, and I was able to have so many breakthroughs where it was so worth it to prioritize my healing that I actually graduated from counseling my therapist.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: She said you've had such a huge level of healing with EMDR.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: We just keep talking about how you're coping so well and thriving.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Right now is a season where it's time to graduate, and if you ever need to go back to therapy, that's fine.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: But you've got the tools now to not only survive but to thrive.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: And so because I was taken out of that unhealed situation, there were boundaries in place.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Then I was able to step into the healing part.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Hallelujah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Hallelujah, yeah, yes, and that is such a testimony.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So, guys, that's a testimony for the beginning and having reliable people using the tools of your mind, whether it's through what you did, emr or whatever it's called and like for me it was neuropsychal.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: So that's, there's hope.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: But what do we talk to and how do we talk to someone who's trapped in it?
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: And for that situation, I want you to again explain the verse God hates divorce.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, so I'm trying to pull that up.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But the first thing that I do when I meet women who are going through a divorce or not divorce, a toxic relationship, abusive relationship or marriage yeah, toxic relationship, abusive relationship or marriage I direct them to Sarah McDougall, wilderness to Wild and Patrick Weaver Ministries.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I've got some different resources that I have on my page other than that, but those two really are incredible.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: The Wilderness to Wild really helps give you a supportive group of women to talk it out and figure out where you're at, and Patrick Weaver Ministries breaks down understanding the Bible verses so that you can understand what that means, and I can explain the Malachi 2.16 if you'd like.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I just want to say something.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Someone may say, hey, that's great, Okay, I just want to say something.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Someone may say, hey, that's great, okay, I understand it, but what are some steps I can take now, because they may have to go into hiding to look up this stuff, like when I wanted to do things from my brain.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: A lot of times I had to wait until my husband left the house, or a lot of times it was just straight from God in my quiet times.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So I'm trying to, I'm really trying to unpack this, hannah, with your wisdom.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I'm really.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe I have a heart so much for those that are stuck in it and their voice and they're powerless.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: What, what could be one thing to start getting out of the trap?
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: okay if I mean if you did.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm kind of challenging you on that if the abuse is to the level where you can't even search a support thing on your phone, it may be best to, when you're at work or somebody else's phone, look up Sarah McDougall Ministries or Patrick Weaver's the Exodus Project.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: So Patrick Weaver he sponsors women to exit abuse.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: He picks out who's going to be able to have a scholarship with their rent paid in a new place and there's a safe exit strategy through the Exodus Project.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Sarah McDougall there's people there that you can hop on the phone with and they can tell you step by step.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: That's what I had to do.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I drove away from where I was.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I got on my phone, I called my friend and I said listen, I don't have the energy to know the full plan.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I need you to tell me, step by step, as it unfolds, what to do.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And so the first step it was as simple as as figuring out a safe separation.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: That's good, and that was hard, but it happened.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: And she said if he doesn't leave, then you need to leave.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so if this lady, who you're thinking of, this person, you need to leave.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so if this lady, who you're thinking of, this person, if, or man, if they need to leave, they got to go to a safe, a safe location, and that also means, like you know, make sure there's not a trace of that.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you need someone who's an expert in this who can navigate this.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and to go straight to the source, you know, patrick Weaver says we ride at dawn.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's good, and I realize that may sound scary.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I'll put these links in the show notes that Hannah's talking about.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: And if I could just give you a part of my side not only find an exit plan, but find people who are speaking the right words into your life.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I had my exit plan, with my bags packed all across the house and waiting for the opportune time to get my kids from school, because I was out of state and I couldn't fake it for a weekend.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I had to find a safe place and in Louisiana you have to pretty much be black and blue to get into a shelter.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And I had to go out of state to get some tags, but all the way in.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: My bags are packed throughout the house, but I had to find a place to flee to.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: In.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: My bags are packed throughout the house, but I had to find a place to flee to and I didn't.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of connections, so I did remove myself when I got the paperwork, went across state, but then that voice, that pastor who's also pastoring her, him that's.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: You need a separate.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: And I ended up, after just four months, going back because he kept putting the fear that I'd lose my kids and I thought it was brilliant that I got away.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I rented an apartment.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I was starting.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: It's hard on the kids, though they don't quite sure I've got to make a little light of this.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: I picked my daughter.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: My daughter was at home, thank goodness, she's in her own world.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: She didn't know that I was packing bags in my and when I took the computer I'm like what am I going to say?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: You know big iMac just taking it in for repairs.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I had to lie.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Then I got my son and we were going down the interstate.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I said guys, I'm taking you to a shelter until mommy gets the paperwork to go across the state lines.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: And my little son is probably about seven or eight.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: He said we're going to starve.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: You never have money.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: So when you got children involved there is some elements there yes, but you continue to get counsel.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you need to return, and it's already a hard move.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Continue to get counsel.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, return, and you're.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: It's already a hard move.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: You know you're like okay, this isn't right, but I'm fed up with this.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I know I need to remove myself, but it feels like I'm.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: It feels like I'm a disobeying God.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: You know all the things that come with that.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: So notice what Hannah said, I think because she had the right support system, she got out in seven months, which seven is a great number.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: She got out, so she's not chained and losing her voice.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Look, she's got a podcast.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: What's the name of your podcast?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Real quick.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: The Echo and Encourage Podcast.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And she has guests on to share.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: So we're not.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I guess I have such a heart for those, hannah, that are in there.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: They're chained, they're voiceless and I mean I get texts, I get messages and all I can say I can't give them my exit plan.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I can't, I'm not licensed to counsel them.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But the one thing that I try to share with them is you are more than enough.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I found I later learned I was fighting for my voice always, because I had that time with God and he started speaking to me in the voice of the vine dresser.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: So I was creating the way God created the vine dresser.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: So I was creating the way God created.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: And then, after this Eden retreat, right down in Genesis, it'll show you the steps of how to create the hovering, the listening.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: But I was creating the way God created.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: So I continued, was able to fight for my voice, because when you get a psychological and abuse, you lose yourself, you can't trust yourself.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: But one thing I'm just using this as a for someone who's been in there a while I was feeling oxytocin, real lack of contact in the, oxytocin in the in context of relationships has everything to do with bonding and trust and all the good things in a relationship, regardless if you have arguments and I was so low on oxytocin.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: But studies also indicate if your oxytocin is so low you have a chance for heart disease, high blood pressure and a weakened immune system, not to mention loneliness, depression and anxiety.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I really believe because I was fighting for my voice.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I was faithful to write down what God said.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't feel the top three, but oh, did I feel the loneliness, the depression, the anxiety.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So every morning I didn't read that book.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: The Body Keeps the Score.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Every morning the last five years I just feel this heaviness.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: But I made a choice.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I could have gone back to bed.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Girl, I understand when you just want to bury your head on your pillow and take long naps.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I understand that okay.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: But there can come a point where you fight for your voice.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And fighting for my voice was choosing coffee, jesus and listening to the vine dresser.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: So I believe God, even in the—understands if you're in the midst of this oppression and depression, there still is Jesus, still is the same yesterday, today and forever.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: So I just had to pipe that in because I mean, when I heard when we were talking the other day, I'm like you got out in seven months.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Oh girl, how much.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: How did you do that?
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know, I didn't have the resources.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, you have been a warrior.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: You have been a warrior.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: You have gone through so much and you were such an incredible example to work through these things, through your podcast, and to what you did, where you had your bags packed in different parts of the house and you were ready to leave.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And you did leave, and I know that the struggle to go back is so heavy.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: You went through spiritual abuse, with a pastor telling you, putting fear in you about you're going to lose your children.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: You went through love bombing, with your husband wooing you back.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: But that's a cycle that a lot of these narcissistic men do or women, and you were attacked on those fronts and you fought for your voice.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You continue to fight for your voice and you help other women fight for their voice, and I love how you speak words of life over these women and you cover them with the truth.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And one thing that helped me yeah, yeah, besides all the therapy was dance.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I joined and I got dance lessons and so I, like you said you were low on oxytocin.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I got so many lovely hugs from my dance community and I've I've had my cup filled through their hugs and you release so much trauma in your body through dance.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It also helps people who have ADHD like me focus their mind.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: There's so many health benefits and the community that I received through going to take continued dance lessons.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: That's one part of my story.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I had a salsa bachata choreographed first dance and I could have left dance in the dust and said, no, it's ruined for me, like no, that was a part of my wedding and now it's over.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: But I decided to actually put on my wedding shoes and I dressed up in that at the dance studio and I recreated memories and I had my first dance song played and I had someone I trusted dance through it with me.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So, I was able to redeem those moments and now, when I hear the wedding song, I have joy in my heart and I'm not triggered and I'm able to continue to grow as a person and as a dancer.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: So I think if you can find a hobby as you're going through a hard time, especially one where you can move your body, it's like you can release so much stored trauma.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I also went through a seasonal depression when the divorce finalized and it was on top of a bunch of other things that just made life heavy, even though it was good changes.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And my doctor she had me each morning and night journal out loud all of my accomplishments.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: She had me write about how I exited this marriage and I have a free life and how I have a voice and a podcast and all the things that I've been able to do, and just that alone lifted my countenance so much and since then I've been able to lift out of that situational depression.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: So there's things that you can do, whether it's with a pen and paper in your voice or it's through moving your body, or it's through boldly and strategically going to someone who is a resource that can help you ride at dawn.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: There is hope for you.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: You're in the trenches.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You've been in the trenches for a long time.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: You don't have the energy or resources to leave.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: There is still hope for you.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: There's still hope and you're worth it.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I started dance and she can dance.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: We had some dances I did mine and she did hers.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: But that's a good point because see, even when I was in the cacophony I started to write.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I published three books.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Even in the cacophony, I fought for my voice.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I started a podcast.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: When I was married, I started a kingdom mentor academy.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I kind of just had to work around the comments, but you actually start to find yourself even in the midst of being in a bad relationship.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: How can you create as God creates, to give you the fortitude to fight, because I really believe now, having Genesis, the first chapter of Genesis broken down, there are ways.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I would say.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Number one fight for your time with God.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: My husband said are you going to step in all day in the word?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And that, like he should be glad I was in the word, but that was so I had to fight for spending time and try not to be moved, but I didn't know the lesson of saying no.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So but I will say this Saying no can mean going to another room.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I did learn that the last few years, hannah, and that's saying no in a way where you're not going to be around it, and I think in this situation.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on narcissism so I don't want to try to analyze different narcissistic behaviors, but the bottom line can.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I don't want to try to analyze different narcissistic behaviors, but the bottom line.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Can I just say this For our sake there are men who never dealt with the brokenness of their own soul and they thought they were dealing with it because they knew the Bible or they knew this and that.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: But you cannot deny the brokenness of your soul.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I say that for you listening.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: If you got some brokenness and you get married, you're going to bring some of that brokenness into your marriage.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: How is that going to manifest?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: And I think the number one thing I think Hannah can attest to this is we did have a relationship with God.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It was helpful to have people that were supporting you the right way.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I will say I did get I should say I had, I did get a good advice from one pastor.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: She said if you leave across state lines, he could call an Amber Alert on you.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: So I did have one voice that said oh my goodness, I didn't even think of that because I was a legal resident in Louisiana, but so there are little intricates, but Hannah, how she broke down.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: God doesn't like divorce, but people take that out of context and you may not have godly.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: You may have church support and they're so hard line you've got to stick with it.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: You're just having disagreements, not realizing the psychological abuse that you may be going through, and then you get to the point where you can't have friends.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And then you get to the point where you're like where do I go?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: You know so.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I just want to say that my heart just bleeds for women who are stuck.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: They're voiceless.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Granted, I believe god in you can give you a plan.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Amen this marriage.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I love the covenant of marriage.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, god, I know, like jess and vincent, and I see godly, I know husbands and I go so godly.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm not against divorce.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I'm'm not against men either.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I love men.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, we have amazing men here serving us.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, it did remind me men can be kind, which is a good.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Whenever I spend time with a friend who's got a godly husband, I'm like oh, men can be kind.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm not against guys.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: A good looking guy, a good looking truck, but my head's going to turn.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: My heart may skip a beat Right now over, but I, my head's going to turn.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: My heart may skip a beat right now over the truck.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: And even this, um, let's talk about this weekend.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: This might take a right turn, but this is answer prayer for me to be around people, one who get me and two who celebrate.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: We celebrate each other.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if I would have gone if I hadn't had a good friend.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: That's one of the leaders.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: So that was a safety cushion for my personality.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: But did you?
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: You knew.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about Jessica Shakur.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: She's an amazing woman.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, Incredible, let me tell you my story.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Two years ago I was in her yet from a friend who, on instagram, had a picture of jessica.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: How do you know jessica?
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And, uh, I.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Then I led me to jessica with the yes lord collective.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Inside the yes lord collective was alana vanderventer as a guest speaker.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't know her.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I like man, I like the way she's, I like the way she's talking, I like the way she's speaking.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: So I followed her and then in around April I won a free hour consultation with Alana, and that's the rest of the story.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going on two years of neuropsychotherapy to find my voice, to share my voice, to speak my voice.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I guess I say that then to meet, I just wanted you to know it's okay to connect on Zoom, because most of these women here knew each other on Zoom and when you meet them face to face, they're the same.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: It's just like okay.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I looked at Jessica and I'm like man.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I remember how many times she was in my face and my Instagram, but she's real.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So what's been an aspect of the or?
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: You might even want to explain more.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just rambling about the Eason retreat.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: You might want to explain a little more about it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: But how has connecting with women who are healthy helped you in your journey?
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, In phenomenal ways.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: So when I was 16 years old, living on the island of Oahu, my parents it was my mom she found Jessica's advertisement in the newspaper that she was hosting a pure beauty event, a pink carpet event.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: So my parents told my school about it and my whole class all of us girls from the school got to go to this pink carpet event and it was the first time that I really saw beauty and purity, celebrating the covenant of marriage and all of that combined and celebrated, and then fast forward to going to more of her events.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Years later, we both end up living in California and I went to her Temecula retreat and then I fast forward was it this one too?
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And I also met you and Alana online through the yes Lord Collective, had Alana on the podcast, met you both in person for the first time at this retreat retreat, but having these women who love to celebrate beauty and God's truth, His goodness, His vibrancy, His heart, His context for theology and everything has been so pivotal.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: My podcast was birthed from the last Temecula retreat and I have had so many breakthroughs in my walk with Jesus and as a person through being around women who are like this and then to just also think about their husbands.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: So Jessica's husband, Vincent, and then there's Maria's husband, Tony.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: The way that they served us.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: They cooked us extraordinary meals.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: With a cheerful smile they teared up at times.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: They have such incredible servant hearts.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: I told them that the way that they served us in this short time completely restored and redeemed all the tenderness that I longed for in my short marriage, and so God used their big hearts to lavish me and all of us with love and to reflect God's love for us.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: And so these women, they choose really incredible men that are at the feet of Jesus.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: And so you're blessed by being around all of these types of people, and they say that you become the average of like the five people you hang out with the most.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: And so you want to invest your time, whether it's online or in person, to being around people that help your heart flourish your dreams flourish talking about Jessica Shakur and her Eden retreat, where so many women were either with Jess or were founder on media or had a Zoom conference with her and into person.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: So when I talked about oxytocin earlier, let's say in part one I think modern day oxytocin is a Zoom camera which leads you to in-person connections that you bond with, that you have compassion, that you truly find your people, and it doesn't need to be a lot.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're in a circle we were talking about this earlier.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be a lot of people, but therein, I think, you find healing that reflects on your face.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you, hannah, there were some people who have known me through the years.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I've had so many messages that were saying, not so many, but a number hey, it's good to see you found your people.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Or, oh, teresa, I see the healing on your face.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Or, oh, teresa, this is awesome for you and I'm not necessarily in contact with them.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: So, if anything to end this podcast, we want to show you a reflection.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's enough to say look at Hannah, look at Teresa, I'm much older than Hannah.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Let me just say but look, they have survived.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: But they haven't just survived, they're thriving in their element.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: So can our testimony, wherever you are in your marriage journey, if you're with a narcissist or not, we understand marriages are tough, so we're not talking about tough marriages, we're talking about abuse psychological, mental but can we be your testimony?
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I think testimony in Hebrew means do it again, god.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: So can.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Hannah and I be a testimony.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: We're living our best week.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, wonderful Jessica Shakur and all the ladies I mean bonding even more with your friends that you do know, or getting to know friends, and realizing, hey, I like you, we connect, and what would take like years to develop a deep friendship.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: It feels like I feel like I've been friends with you forever.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Hannah, same Some of the other ladies like, wow, I just connect with you.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've been friends with you forever, hannah, same.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Some of the other ladies are like wow, I just connect with you.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've known you.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I think this isn't just a community.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: What happens is it becomes a family, and family the kingdom of God is family.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: So can Hannah's and my testimony be your breakthrough If you're in a rough time?
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Hannah was able to do it.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: She got sound.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Teresa was able to do it.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: She just dove into the Word and listened to what God said and wrote what God said, because you have a voice and it's very important, and often God loves to slap extra on what you think is ordinary and make you an extraordinary solution to someone's pain point.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, hannah, that you come across women and are able to speak a word or speak hope to them.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was powerful, Teresa the thought and the prayer of being somebody's testimony, and yeah wow, what an honor.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I have spoken to women while I was walking through separation, divorce, post-divorce, and so far there has been women who say to me Hannah, I see your story, you have wisdom, I'm in this relationship.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: These are the different things that are happening and I'm able to put words to it and explain.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Like you know well, that's actually withholding affection from you, that's actually emotional abuse, and then this is how it's going to play out in your life, as it's magnified through marriage and they're able to make good choices and to break off from abusive relationships.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: And they're able to make that decision before they enter marriage which is so wonderful when you're able to.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: You know, we talk about how I was able to get out in seven months of marriage.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Well, they were able to get out before they entered into marriage, and so that's something to celebrate when you start to recognize patterns that are abusive and then you're able to then choose okay, well, I want to step into honoring my life story Good, and so I've also been able to speak to women who've been divorced or, you know, walking through that, and just share with them how we talked about the different Bible verses in context and talk about their worth and value and just be available for when they want to connect.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I've had some women just book a session where they just want to talk it out.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Just book a session where they just want to talk it out, and then later on they're able to put a boundary and separate from that person, whether they were married, separated or they share a child, and they just need better boundaries to hold space for them.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: And so I'm here ready to fast and pray for anyone who wants me to and hear your journey on.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I'll have in the show notes some of that information that Hannah shared with you.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: But what's the easiest way for them to get in touch with you?
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: On Instagram at AskHannahAbbott or I have a website.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: AskHannahAbbottcom.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Great, that's awesome.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I always say DM me at Instagram too, at Teresa Croft, because that's a safe platform where you're going to get an answer.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, check the show notes of this podcast and we'll have some more resources.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: And, hannah, thank you so much.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you T it has been such an honor to sit with you, enjoy this Eden retreat and to hear your story and see you come to life as you share it.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the honor of having a safe space to share part of my story and encourage people with you.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for listening to the Stuck no More podcast.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: If this really touched your heart, leave a review on Apple.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Share it with a friend.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe you know a friend who needs Hannah's advice.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: The reason I say that is the more we share this, the more the voice grows, louder to reach more people and touch hearts.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Because bottom line is you have a voice.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Let's help you find it, share it and speak it in the way that lines up with your DNA.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: So if you want more information on that, I'm starting the Stuck no More Academy.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: This is January, so be looking for more of the Stuck no More Academy, where we walk you through the steps of finding your voice, sharing your voice and speaking your voice in a podcast or on stage.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Our heart, my heart and I think Hannah has the same heart is we want to see you Stuck no More.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: So thanks for listening.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you in the next episode of the Stuck no More podcast.