Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 122: From Layoff to Landing Contracts: How Uchechi Kalu Already Hit 50% of Her 2026 Revenue Goal

Transcript

122: From Layoff to Landing Contracts: How Uchechi Kalu Already Hit 50% of Her 2026 Revenue Goal · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: I realize it's been five months since I've had a guest on this podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: And every day it's like I have a new person pitching to me to be in my podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Just so you all know, I do not have any random person that I do not know to be in my podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you've been listening for a while, it's usually clients, friends, or family members.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I had my baby brother that's not a baby being my podcast, but I'm excited because I can't wait for you to meet Ucechi Kalu, my client, my dear friend.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: She is a poet, creative, and all around powerhouse.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: She started working with me February 28, right after getting laid off from Emerger.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: And now seven months later, as of today, September 23rd, when I am recording this podcast, Ucechi's already hit 25% of her financial goal for 2026 from her business.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, that's next year's goal.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I am recording recording this in 2025.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And in the short amount of time that we've worked together in the past seven months, she's landed financial coaching contracts with five major literary arts organizations, coached over 700 plus people through workshops, webinars, and one-to-one sessions, and led a money and spirituality hike in LA with 13 black and Latino women because hello, healing and hiking go together.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, before we work together, because I can't get all the credit for her greatness, is she was a poet for the 2024 Paris Olympics.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I share this because I know this year has been tough.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's talks of layoffs being fired.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're feeling this where you're scared something is going to happen.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And these are conversations I consistently have.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited to share Ucechi's story, not just for hope, but also an example.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And for you to get the steps, strategies, and mindset just in case you are curious about wanting to start a business in this crazy year where every day looking at the news, there's fear, uncertainty, and exhaustion.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And despite this year, Chechi has been able to gain the clarity of how she wanted to create not only her business, but as well life.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: So grab your coffee, tea, or boba and let's drop the beat.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: I also should give fair warning that you should probably put headphones on because we're cussing with excitement.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if you got little ones, put those headphones on.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I have been waiting for this day to do this podcast recording with Ucechi because we started working together officially seven months ago.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we're at the end of our coaching relationship, but our friendship will forever blossom.
• 3:32
  unknown: Exactly.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: But she has been killing it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you're a CFP, R I A.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us what that is.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And can you walk us to the Yeah, tell us what that is first.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So my name is Uchenchi Kalulu.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a certified financial planner, and I primarily work with women creatives and small business owners.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here in LA.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what a financial planner does is that we help you take all the jumbled questions that you have about your money of how can I invest?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: How much do I need?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: How much do I need to run my business and run my personal life?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: When can I retire?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can I buy that home?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can we have a kid?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: How does my money relate to all of that?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: We are people who know how to answer those questions from a quantitative perspective, but then also from an emotional perspective and hopefully also then from like a spiritual perspective, so that the decisions that you're making with your money feel really aligned from a values lens.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you started your own business seven months ago, just got the RA RIA today.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: You just posted on LinkedIn.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'll put that post in the show notes.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But can you walk me back to I was looking at the Google Calendar, end of February of this year?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: The moment you decided you wanted to work with a business coach, where were you at in your career and life?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And how did that experience plant the seed for you being where you're at right now?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was a pretty pivotal moment because in February, the company I worked for was bought out.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was bought out by another fintech company.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I had only been there for four months.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I had previously left just a few four months before that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I left another firm that was incredibly toxic.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: For me, at least.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just say, for me, other people work there and they love it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was not that experience for me.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so in this new work environment where I worked for four months, I had fallen in love with the work again.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I felt that I really was bringing so much value as a certified financial planner.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I it clarified for me even more of like, I want to serve women.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I only want to work with women clients.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I work with some with some men's, but I just felt really driven that I could do this work and that and that I could thrive in this work, and that it wasn't that I didn't like it.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that it was like too challenging, but rather that I previously just had not been in the right environment.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So having been in that right environment for four months and just thriving, like I felt like a flower that had not been watered and immediately got enough and suddenly was a forest, you know.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was the best four months of my professional life in a kind of corporate environment.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then the merger happened, and then we all got laid off.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: It happened all in the span of a few weeks, truly.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was so shocking.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember sitting at home and being like, okay, well, now I know that I want to do this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna just pick myself up on my bootstraps and do it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she did it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I did it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I did it.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But but still, I think I spent like a few weeks or something deliberating uh over like a website, you know.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have any clients, and I'm sitting here being like, what are the colors?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you know what I mean?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I am laughing because she's not there anymore.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it feels great, I'm sure.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: So tell us about your drama, girl.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you'll just be and I remember just having a few, yeah, like a few weeks on the couch being like, put this here, put this there, make the website better.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta have a website before I start, whatever.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so grateful that I don't know who, but something slapped me in the back of my head and was like, girl, you obviously you have a vision, you have the drive, you have the ambition, but you need guidance.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so, so grateful for the humility that I have and and that I've that I've gained really over really over the course of the year and maybe over the course of my life, but I definitely had enough humility to be like, if I don't get help, if I don't get guidance, if I don't work with someone, I am not gonna go anywhere.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that was me.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is not everybody's journey.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Other people have other resources, whatever.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I am not married, I do not have children, I do not have anybody bankroll in my dreams.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't got no trust funds, nothing like that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still working on that for myself, you know.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to be my own trust fund kid.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like my mom is always like, What do you want?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like a trust fund.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I wanted.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and so I just really did that calculation for myself of I can sit here and be confused, or I can try something else, and I know something else is gonna happen.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was when I I looked up, you know, like business coaches for women of color, and I found you, and I was like, Elaine's my girl.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even, I didn't even talk to anyone else.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to like- Oh my gosh, I want to hear this.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is just a new touchy like intuitive thing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have had in my in my past a lot of success with making a decision, really feeling out what it is that I need.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then the first thing that arises usually for me is the thing that I need.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you were basically the first thing that arose.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there were a few other people, but like I didn't quite like, I didn't quite like something, and I felt like, okay, that's not for me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you're the only one that I actually contacted to talk to, and I knew that it was what I wanted because I had already decided.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, Elaine's gonna be here anyway.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she's gonna be super great for the job, but I know that I'm showing up, so I figured it couldn't go wrong either way, and it turned out to be a really great experience.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I like doing, I tell people who want to start or scale their business to do target market research, which I've made you do, and I'm gonna do it in real time right now with Ucechi.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: So when you saw my website, I'm curious, how did you know what about it that you saw, read, felt?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: How did you know?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think the it was two things for me.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: The f and it I don't even know if it was necessarily the website itself, but I was really impressed by the number of reviews that you had.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I also tend to like when I read reviews, like I kind of look for not just that someone half-reviewed it, but what they write about themselves to you know, and I felt that there was a consistency in terms of how folks felt that they were relating to you and then what also they have been able to feel within themselves.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't necessarily personally looking for like someone who had made a million dollars in a year.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a I'm a financial planner, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like for me, I'm not that person.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm no, I mean like I'm not the person to like you could make X amount and XCM.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's like yeah, go ahead.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think you know, no one can no one can nor they should truly promise this.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think actually having not seen that was really important to me because I knew that what the experience that I had was actually gonna be, yes, it had to be tangible and quantitative, and I was gonna be taking very tangible steps for the future.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew that it had to be an environment and what and where in which I was becoming something that I couldn't quite put my hand on that I needed someone else to help kind of mold me.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: What also helped was listening to a few of the testimonials or some video testimonials that were on your website.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was very helpful for me because coaching can be like, what is it?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it was good to see you relating to other people.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I listened to quite a few episodes of the podcast to see what kinds of, you know, advice you'd be giving or what kinds of insight you'd be giving, and whether it felt like something that someone has read in a self-help book and it's just regurgitating, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or if it felt like something I'd be like, oh wow, I've never heard of that before.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I felt that if I asked you a question, you'd offer insight that I really would not have interacted with on my own.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was, it was actually a lot of those other pieces, a lot of what other people said that was really helpful.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And what I will I I want to make sure this is more of lessons and teachings for our listeners to hear that I asked the feedback, what made Ucechi want to do a call with me already decide?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that helps me.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like now I'm gonna take notes from even this conversation of okay, do I have my reviews updated?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do I need to update and create new videos?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: All of that.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't need to talk about how 2025 is, nor the list of things that is happening this year.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, girl, just just look at the news.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to tell you what's happening.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, but there was a reel I saw today.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, I'm scared to open social media, but I need a break from work.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Please let it be a funny dog and cat dancing.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: It won't be.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's either yes or I'm gonna cuss this morning.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: You please put your headphones on, or like, fuck, this just happened.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Those two.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Girl.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we know that starting a business in 2025, there's already crazy challenges just happening for our environment.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: One, and also two, AI is picking up.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So for our listeners, I'd would love for them to learn like what did you do both strategically and your mindset to start and get consistent clients while we were working together.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think here's the thing.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I did not for the way that financial planning works, when you leave a firm, a lot of the time you have to leave your clients with that firm.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I had to do that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I I literally was starting at zero again, except for someone who was like, sometimes you meet people who were like the earliest adopters to you.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this person who willingly left the other company to continue to work with me, even as I have been like an amoeba becoming a like becoming a two-bodied whatever, you know.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was actually very, very important.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say to anyone listening, like, kind of look out for the people who want to be with you along the way, no matter what, because those people are gonna give you a lot of insight into the kinds of clients that are like so ecstatic about you, who love you and who you love.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something in financial planning wherein you're supposed to, and this is the nature of it being a very white industry, is that you're supposed to just be like incredibly neutral, have very little emotions, and leave all the emotions up to your clients.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: But oh gosh, with money and people of color, yeah, exactly all emotions for everything, not just money.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not just money, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're really not supposed to bring yourself, you're not supposed to bring your emotions or anything.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that one client who came over in the past year, she's become even a deeper, deeper friend and taught me the kind of one-on-one client that I'm now pursuing even more.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that part, yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's that's not the answer to your question, but that just came up for me of like those first people really key into that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to add to that because you know, the work we did together to start, we did target market research, which I've talked about in other podcasts of connecting with people who have been with you since the beginning, like you shared, be curious, ask questions, you're just collecting data.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And even when I started my own business, I just wanted to be a coach, just general coach.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I I wasn't sure if it was well, I didn't even know it was gonna be woman of color, but I I started noticing similar to you.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, woman of color being attracted to me.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had allies come where they're so sweet asking me, wait, I know you work with women of color, but do you know any white coaches for me?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and I'm like, I'll work when she was up.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like actually Monica has shared this, who's been in my podcast a couple of times.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, the fact that you asked, like, yes, I will work with you because the reality is we we need to work together.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I have the same experience.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: What last week where someone came to me who was like, I I saw you do something, I know that you don't work with white women, or rather, she said, I'm not a woman of color, I should just tell you that, you know.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if you'd be open to working with me, but you know, so other people are gonna show up anyway.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Although that wasn't the main thing that I did at the time to sort of find clients in this world of AI, this is something I don't think I would have, I would have really understood the importance of noticing.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the more that I did start to notice who was excited about me and who I was excited about, then it helped me start realizing more importantly, and and now I'll more directly answer your question, that I could build a business that I was excited about.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I could build a business of people that I was excited to meet.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so the first thing that I did that happened to be maybe the a single best decision that was a catalyst for other decisions was that I was at a writing conference because I'm a poet.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wait, who do who have you done poetry with?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead and share.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: I perform for the Olympics, the 2024 Paris Olympics.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: What's up?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know, y'all.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: We have got a celebrity.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You want an honor?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: A celebrity wordsmith.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's up?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrity wordsmith and money, so not just the words.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, anyways, go drop some bars on what you're about to share next.
• 17:43
  unknown: Girl.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was at a um a writing conference that happened to be in Los Angeles.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the biggest ones, and it it travels every year.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: It happened to be in LA this year, so very serendipitous.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I wouldn't have been there.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was going to be there anyway, and I thought, well, why why don't I just go around and start pitching them?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: As like, hey, I'm a poet, but also I'm a financial planner.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, there's there's literally nobody else in this space in this physical room.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: She found a niche because how many people, sorry, I'm like kind of making no go.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's like, I'm your Wall Street girly, DFF.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like when we think when I think of financial planners, and mind you, they're not certified on Instagram.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's you kind of see the same thing.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what I've appreciated about how you've grown your business, you've done it your own way.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you've done it through your passion with arts and poetry.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: You found these this niche because unfortunately, people have this judgment that creatives and artists don't make money.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Why would I focus there?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're in a actually, it's really well, I I it's a it's a yes and a no.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is this curiosity that you're bringing up.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've had to become much, much more curious and to check myself of like, okay, where when where am I saying, where am I like placing a narrative on this thing?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And where could I just be be open to whatever scenario, you know?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to this conference, I started pitching myself as a financial planner who was also a poet and who could talk about money and who could talk about money from the perspective of of the people that these organizations were serving.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that, hey, like nobody is ever coming and talking to artists about money because of these preconceived notions.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yet a lot of program managers from from large literary arts organizations actually want to provide reasonable and important programming.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in the age of AI, where a lot of writers' jobs are being taken, so money is at threat.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: In the age of Trump and tariffs and all this stuff, people are talking about money even more so.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of fear, there's a lot of anxiety.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so just from that conference that I went to, I got two contracts from them.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she did.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is still ongoing, and I keep on getting new work from them to do like webinars, and and it that's been really incredible.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And from the audience that showed up from there, some of those folks have now become clients.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then it just kind of like built out from one to two to three.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of it was then kind of like word of mouth.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So someone sees me here and realizes that I'm doing talks for artists consistently and I'm talking about things that people are engaged with.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that has that I don't that process kind of built it out, but it really was in person in a lot of things.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was like I had coffees with people, I had calls with people, but I also and I will say this that was really important and continues to be important is that I really followed up with people.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: If I didn't hear back once, this, yes, follow up is queen.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think people forget it is queen.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you you'd be surprised.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got an email back from someone today that I sent months ago.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Months ago.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh yeah, like let's do this.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So uh you really never know, but you have to be persistent.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just found that going in person, talking to people, and and just pitching my services.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of you know, of the whole conference, two people said yes, how many people said no?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So many people, like it doesn't matter.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the ones that said yes have uh been paying my bills for this year, so it's just at least some of them.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're not paying all my bills.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a millionaire, but um yes.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what happened for me.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know you talked about the strategically being curious, connecting with people.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's also the mindset piece, as you know.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so often I hear from people, but but I I I don't think I'm ready yet.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes Perfectionism also comes into play.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're talking about the website.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you were still in the journey of working on your website up to even seven months with me like, girl, I need help.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: I like sent her a video two weeks ago giving feedback on editing her website as she was continuing to break all this money.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, you knew you introduced yourself as a poet that does financial planning, but how did you also overcome the mindset to even like own it?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I mentioned a little bit at the top about like humility and how humility led me to this process of asking for help.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the process of humility also helped me walk away from iterations and ideas that didn't actually serve the larger aims of my life in this process.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I started, I actually wasn't, I wasn't sure that I wanted to go back into investment management, but I did know that I love financial planning and that I wanted to access more people.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't, I don't even know if you were here for this era.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is like pre-Elaine.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I had this idea that I was going to do a service called text and advisor.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, wait.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: You need to tell them where we had our first meeting.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Who's oh yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: We were in like some co-working space that Tracy Ellis Ross had had that room for a while.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Vibes.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: We, I mean, how do we start it off?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't even I didn't even know when I booked our first session together.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah, it was that was really great.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And because my my whole thing was like, you know, I want to make this work more accessible.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have more people be able to access it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized, like, well, how many people would I have to have on this platform to pay my bills?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm only one woman.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I personally don't have this vision, this dream of having this huge business where eventually I'm just a manager and other people are practitioners.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when I thought about this long-term vision of my life, I thought, well, actually, I really like this idea and concept.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And like maybe someone else is gonna take it and fucking blast it out the park.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: But for me and where I am right now, I have enough humility to say I can walk away from something that I said that I wanted to do once now that I have more information.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: The next phase was that I was like, okay, well, let me do coaching.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna, again, I'm not gonna do backsit management.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do coaching and I want to see um if I could have it at a lower price point and have and have folks come in that way.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found was that yes, you could sell financial plan or financial planning or financial coaching at a lower price point, but because of the the structural issues that were were emerging in those clients' lives, they didn't, they weren't able to see the value of the ongoing nature of this work, the accountability that's needed to really implement what we're doing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as I sat back, I thought, well, yes, I want to be able to have a practice that can serve more people, but I am not in service of people if I'm only having a smaller interaction with them.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know this as a financial planner.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I could whip up a financial plan, step one, step two, step three strategy.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Most people, there are tons of statistics that that show that like 75% or so of people who receive a financial plan never implement it because they don't have the accountability and they don't have the support.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to look at that and look at it very boldly and say, okay, yes, I might be wanting to serve X amount of people, but this isn't the way.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't feel comfortable sleeping at night knowing that I'm giving a financial plan to a group of people, and 75% of them are never gonna know what to do with it, and they can't afford to continue working with me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have to find another way.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really hard, actually.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was really hard because I am someone who has a lot of uh values and principles and morals, and I will preach about them all the time.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to still look back and say, well, this doesn't make this actually in practice doesn't make any sense.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I keep pursuing this, it's gonna be strictly on vibes.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't have I don't have someone who's paying my bills.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can't live on vibes.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to be realistic, but also then see where my values might lie.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a lot of shedding, shedding, shedding, shedding, shedding what I said I thought I wanted to do, and then looking at it more accurately and clearly and letting it go and letting something else arrive.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is around the time that the art started to emerge.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I would, I did not, I this was not something that I was premeditated at all.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: At all.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never thought like that the art space, the art world would be a place where I could serve people and serve people who really needed it and have organizations.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is the important part, organizations that paid me consistently to serve their people in deep ways.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I wasn't straining the pocketbook of folks that, you know, that was their only few thousand dollars that maybe they that they could offer for this.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't straining them.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working a budget that has hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a drop in the bucket.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found actually by again having enough humility to shed those old ideas, being curious about what was in front of me, and seeing that the art organizations were energetic about this work and also feeling as I felt that I was really in the right place and that I was really serving people that were just like me in a very deep way, and also had never seen a professional truly show up and really give them the time of day, it just became the perfect place, actually.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: The perfect place.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel so grateful that I can be a poet and also do this work, and I feel so grateful that I can be a financial planner and show up in poetic spaces and just like talk, you know, talk about lying and verse.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say this was the process for me, to be honest.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I want to sum it up from what I heard.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was taking notes, so that's why my eyes were down.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, she's dropping bars.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, where can I timestamp this so I could listen to it again?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you all felt the same way.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: So feel free to hit the rewind button.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I loved how you started off with like understanding what are your bigger picture life goals.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: You and I also have talked about embracing enough, especially in a capitalistic world, right?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you came from that framework of okay, this is how financial planning is.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've shared with you that I've also had a financial planner, but what I didn't like was the very few touch points I had, which I've shared with, I wish there was more.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: But it's interesting, I went through the similarly with coaching because you see how everyone else colleagues are doing it or I competitors, air quotes.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, I guess I need to do it that that way.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: But what you were sharing is you realize, wait, let me listen to what my people want.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: And as you know, I I just changed my services before you signed on to work with me because before it was monthly one-to-ones, but I had to hear because I work with people of color.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, they need more individualized touch points.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I need to put two calls a month, and I had to own, you know what, I'm working with a limited number of clients.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate that one.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: And two, what I want our listeners to hear is that she tested.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like unafraid, unattached to have something having to work to like let me test it.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: But what I really appreciate throughout the seven months we've worked together, Uce Chi, and I've shared this with you in so many coaching calls, it's not the go, it's not just the go-getter attitude to do it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: You you've always provided so much spaciousness to reflect and ask yourself those hard questions.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Does this align?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Does this not?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me go back to my values.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else you want to add to that?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think it helps.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a meditator.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I started yoga really young.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think these things lend to the way that my mind works.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: But also, you know, I it makes me kind of emotional to think about it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I really was coming from a emotionally very dark place.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not in the in the job that whether it was the merger and the layoff, but from the previous company.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt, yeah, it was a very, very, very dark experience for a very long time.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I was emerging from that, and in in some ways, I still think I am.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I think about that space that I was in, yeah, it it was really, it was really not the right fit for me.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a part of me uh in my immigrant Nigerian tenacity, wherein even if something doesn't feel right, I will fight.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I will, I will make my way through it.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I will like, I'll crawl, you know, I'll jump, I'll hop, whatever, you know, whatever it takes to succeed.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw how that had worn me down so much and how there was no reward in that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so on this end of the process, I think it became really, really important for me to recognize what actually did fulfill me, what actually did make me happy, and to believe that I could find this long-term success that I wanted in that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a part of why when I was interacting with things and I ended, and I just got a deep, a deep intuitive sense that it was not going to be aligned with my true aims.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: I felt free to let it go.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, there's can't be worse than where I was coming from.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's, you know, a little bit more context, I think, for what was in the back of my mind.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you sharing that.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of the exercises I do with clients is when they're starting a business or even changing industries, it's actually the reflecting from the past.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think we forget to revisit it.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, what can we learn from this?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: What do we not want repeated?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's why I always I tell you all the time, like, oh my gosh, you are a million light years ahead of me from even my first seven months in business.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that because I was just pushing.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: You were talking about the fighting analogy, like I just kept pushing.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're gonna get this done.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: But then I started to create a business that was similar to toxic work environments I was in before.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not the recent one.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: I had my dream job.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to working at Passi City College Foundation.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: But like prior to that, like I was like, oh shit, yeah, I just created this monster.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate you sharing the wait, let me reflect on the past and ask myself what's fulfilled me.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: I shared earlier 2025's insane.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: So many layoffs.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: You've also been in office hours with other clients where unfortunately people are also kind of having that intuitive hit, like I might be let go or fired that it has happened.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: So with someone like that going through a pivotal moment in their life and career and perhaps wants to start a business, what advice do you have for them?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know you're still also learning and healing and growing from the past situation, too.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Advice I would have for someone who wanted to start a business.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, girl, you better keep that job with that health insurance.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't listen to me.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Just stop the stop the episode now.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Stop the podcast.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be like me.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joking.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: I know this episode is so good.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, how can I get more of this?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have a newsletter that comes out every Thursday that's free, fun, and full of real talk.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a live journal Zanga on leadership and life with actual scripts, behind-the-scenes stories, and lessons from mistakes I've made so you don't have to for work and life.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Just go to elanelu.com forward slash join.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's E-L-A-I-N-E-L-O-U.com forward slash join.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: All right, back to the episode.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: But in a in a certain way, I think if you want to start a business, don't start the business believing that you will find like your freedom in it.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everything that was happening internally will continue to happen, and actually it'll happen exponentially because it'll only be you and your thoughts and yourself and your time.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll be, you know, as you're doing the work, you're gonna be alone, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: So anyone's having a business, I think that's the first thing.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't romanticize it, don't idolize it, actually.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can enter it without that romanticizing or and without the idolization, I think you'll probably be in a great spot.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, you know what?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm writing that down.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don't romanticize and idolize it, especially as follow millennials.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think we kind of grew up with that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like your job is your life.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then we see Gen Z be like, peace out.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing minimum work, leaving at five o'clock on the dot.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: 459, you know.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also as my as millennials, we grew up in an area where the entrepreneur was the god.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, and we're still living in it.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like the god of society is the Zuckerberg, the god of society is the Bezos, even the ghost of Steve Jobs is still the god, you know.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know new iPhones out, you know?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's right here.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're like, oh, thank God, Steve Jobs, he did it for mankind.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, but I I truly don't say that in jest because I don't think that starting a business is for everyone.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really don't.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there are so many elements of this wherein like you go from being a practitioner to having to manage systems to doing marketing to all of that stuff.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if that really doesn't sound like you, then maybe it's better to find a better environment.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if it does sound like you, then my true advice is to find something that you feel you could be in the trenches with.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that I could be in the trenches with financial planning because it does mean enough to me.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just for fun, and it's not just for vibes, and it's not for clicks, and it's not for how someone else will see me.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, if it was for that, I wouldn't be doing this work at all.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would just be an artist.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's not why I'm doing it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I actually believe in this work.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so even in the hard times, I have the vision and I can keep it.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And even when I have a deficit in the business and I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to do this, this, and that, I'm okay with that.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I'm gonna figure it out.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you are going to start a business, I would really urge you to think about something that you could also be like, I don't like today, and I don't like tomorrow, and I might not even like the next year of any of this.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe in this work enough that I'm going to continue, and I know that I will not be swayed.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if it doesn't feel that strong enough for you, I would not recommend that you do it because it will test you, and then she tests you, man.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: She tests you.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: She does.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: It will continue to test you, and you will be miserable.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: So this I don't know if that's what you'll remember, but you know that's my advice about it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is 2025.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: As millennials, I think optimism has left and realism is in.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate you being real with everybody.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: If I were to also add like tactical things, is if you know other business owners who are friends, ask them how it is.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: What you think their mindset is, what are challenges?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's that I appreciate you saying the enough part, you know, and are you willing to be in the trenches with it?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: So sure, you're here listening to me, Nucechi, on the podcast talking.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: But what you don't see is probably sometimes frustrations of looking at a spreadsheet of being like, Oh, I'm not gonna hit my numbers this month, but you know what, I did good the other two months, and I think yeah.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't be that kind of hype, man, for yourself, this is not gonna be the right life for you.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm being I'm being for real.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is so I I think I am I think I'm made for this in a strange way.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, what trauma you got?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna go straight.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying it sounds like it is I'm made for this because of my trauma.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, therapists.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like I think I am made for this in a and it's it's silly, but I don't think everybody's made for that.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I but I also know just to counter this, because I because we do live in the age where in the entrepreneurs are gone, I'm not saying this from any kind of pedestal.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there's other kinds of like work and businesses that I am actually not made for at all.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And right, so you just you kind of just start understanding your strengths.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: But to to add to more of it, I think so much of the American mindset is is the mindset of like you are meant to do it alone, you're meant to pull yourself by your bootstraps.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you don't know what's going on, then it's your fault.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: You if you're gonna start a business, I need you to immediately dispel that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: All of the business that you want is in collaboration with at least another person who's even gonna buy your services.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that person does not exist in your head, they are outside, they're in the world.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so a business, it is a collaborative process, it's a fully collaborative process.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you are are willing to be in collaboration with others, then you have a fighting chance for sure.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just putting all this pressure on yourself, then like how could you get anywhere?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: How would anyone even know where your business is?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's so fascinating when people like what how can I build this business without talking to each other?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you can't.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can't, and let's say even you have a business where you do get products and services based off of social media, you are also still gathering data and connecting with people that way.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: So just want to remind you all that.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And even what I enjoy, I mean, I'm not gonna go into specifics, but when Ucechi shares like a problem or issue that arises, I'm like, okay, what system can do we need to fix and update?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: We were just doing this in Voxer yesterday.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: You were frustrated about something, I was like, okay, girl, this this gives gives us enough data to like start editing some stuff.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so it's even being open to what do I need to fix and edit.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: And even me being eight years into business, I can't control what happens politically external variables.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: But if I notice that, hey, my clients need more individualized time with me, what does that mean?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: How do I need to update my services?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do I need to give other options?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's sometimes people like, nope, let's do one and done.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is the framework you can.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Times are gonna change.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to be honest with you, like having when I kind of was looking out there and seeing how people were working, if and and also knowing what I needed at the time, had your services been once a month, I would have been like, well, I'm not gonna do it.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: At least with you, because I knew that I needed a lot more touch points.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I was starting off, but again, in this like very formless amoeba-like form.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so so much.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Should I change my messaging to I work with amoebas?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: I work with amoebas.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, don't again, don't don't listen to the words, Miss.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're just making you step up.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: But oh yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, she she went to Princeton.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: So she's like an Ivy leaguer with these big words.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, continue.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: You wouldn't have worked with me after just knowing quickly.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Not specifically to you.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that with the feedback.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: I also had to be very honest with myself, even with clients about to leave.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't think I'm serving them the way they should be served.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: And going back to you, what what's my value?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I really want to care and nurture my clients.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when I sent you my first email to you and you responded back, and you're like, girl, I cried.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: You actually cared about knowing how to pronounce my name because that was YouTube because how do I pronounce this?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I think I remember you're doing a pretty good job.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And but and here's the thing is like, I think what makes working with you so special and impactful is the amount of access, to be honest.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it reminded me, even in my own work, you know, very often some planners will have like a certain number of meetings that one can have with a client or certain ways of interacting.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually felt it actually freed me to not put my clients in these boxes of like you can only talk to me at these times in these ways.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I have clear boundaries.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's not like we're it's not like they're calling me in the in the middle of the night.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it in this age of, you know, you're asking about AI and technology where we're behind so many screens, having someone who's like, hey, here's my number.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: I remember you called me even before I was a client.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: You were like, Oh, there's this event.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you called me and invited me to it.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you have to come to this because it's Black History Month and my other client, Shayla, was doing a talk.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh, she needs to come.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, like that kind of stuff is so meaningful and I think so underrated.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you demonstrate it so incredibly well, and it was a very good model for me to demonstrate it.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so when my clients are working with me, one of them and And when I talk, I've actually asked one of my my long, long, longtime clients, like why?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why does she really love working with me?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that she always mentioned, and we were talking about just a few days ago, was like how I relate to her and how easy it is to access me and talk with me.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And like if she's running late, I'm not like, well, that's there's the 48-hour policy.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff like that, where you're like, okay, this is a person who has a life.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a person who has a life.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I guess my policy is always like I want to give my client the grace and like reliability and resp and responsiveness that I would want them to give to me.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're really great at that.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Aw.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that leads to my next question, which is what are results and what have you enjoyed about working with me?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yes.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the access is was actually very important.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and also, I mean, you're just such an amazing person, such a fun person and genuine person.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that was also very fun.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of the results, I think what's been great as I've been calculating my numbers as a true planner, is that I have a I have a general sort of revenue goal for what it would look like to at least try and get close to breaking even.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And right now we're talking it's September 2025, and I'm like 25% there, a quarter of the way there for 2026.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that feels awesome because I really had to be like, all right, even if today doesn't look like anything, I see the vision.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that that was amazing.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like one of my first questions for you was like, How do I even like get clients?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even oh I didn't know what I was doing.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think was really, really, really amazing.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think another thing that was really incredible for me working with you was that you opened my eyes to different, a different way of doing business.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you mean by that?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: By that, you know, if anyone listening has been in a particular industry for a long time, there's a way, quote unquote, a way that you do things, a way that you get clients, the places that you show up, the things you should be doing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I found it incredibly valuable that you are not in the same industry as me.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when you'd be like, oh, go to this like government procurement like workshop.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: The amount of emails I have forwarded to Ucechi, I mean, that is a benefit to living in LA with me.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, come with me.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, come with me to this, like, come.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, you know, or like come with me to this thing about like minority certifications and what I'd never I have legitimately never ever ever ever heard of any of these things.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, but this was so important.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like going back to that curiosity, I was like, oh my God, if I'm serving business owners and these organizations have business owners that do completely different things than what I do, no one else is a financial planner, then this is actually the perfect environment for me to be, even if I just see it as market research to understand more of what it is that they're truly concerned about.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: But even to see myself as like, oh, I could be a government contractor.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually that makes sense because there are very, very, very large financial institutions that do that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the smaller ones that you know that I've worked with that they're smaller compared to these big banks that just like don't think about business in those ways.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really exciting to s to see that a way of sort of setting yourself apart is by being in rooms where no one else is there like you.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: This part, because I was caught up like you, Chechi.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was in rooms, other coaches, other people online.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I figured, oh, well, if this is the framework I'm spending a lot of money with, let me copy and paste this.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just done.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, there has to be another way.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: And also asking ourselves a deeper question, why did we get into this work in the first place?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Why did we want to do this work?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Why did we and asking that deep question made me like, I'm gonna get the analogy of being a single woman, like, let me date other types of events.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, let me, yes, let me try this.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, this is new, like government agents.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: And also the curiosity part, right?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you found me because of SEO, but that happened because after three years of being posting stuff on social media all the time, like, wait, okay, how am I getting clients?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Referrals, that's easy.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: But the people that are finding me, what are they, what words are they using to find me?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, let me focus on SEO.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I have the curious perspective to figure out what's happening as opposed to let me see what everyone else is doing and I'm gonna do a copy and paste model.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you just you cannot, and then also just isn't there's so much more excitement and finding what could actually work for you than copying and pasting and and hoping that there's some kind of like secret pill to success.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: Wherein we and we always do, right?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: Career ladder, right?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's obviously certain jobs like a doctor, I understand you have to follow steps with it, but with entrepreneurship, it's a jungle gym.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely is, and and like, and you're you're building it on your own.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something else that was so honestly powerful for me were the office hours, especially when there were other people there.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because as I mentioned before, I don't think that everyone should start their own business.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that if you do start your own business, it is important to be with other people who understand the trenches that you're in.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you go from being a W-2 employee to running your own thing, it is so dramatically different.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Every single part of it is dramatically different.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: That even when you are experiencing something that's absolutely normal as an entrepreneur, you're gonna feel like you're failing.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna feel like it's it's just your problem.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I loved, loved, love going to the office hours and something that you're so skilled about and just in facilitation, is that very often, you know, let's say that I brought up a concern that I was dealing with, and you saw even just someone nodding their head, you like you didn't center yourself.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be like, Oh, so and so.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: I see you nodding.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: What would you like to say?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so very often you felt that it was not you, Elaine, but rather the group, the aggregate that was feeding into each other.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is so powerful because we have so much collective knowledge.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in that decentralizing of yourself and actually propping up the members of the group, even for some, we've been able to build like friendships and relationships that were outside of you.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the that particular spirit of being so supported in a group of women and getting just this beautiful, beautiful knowledge and wealth of experience that's coming from, in some cases, not just around the country, but around the world, I think is kind of irreplaceable.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there are many moments where I'm like, this feels we were we're on the call, like I think last week or week before it just feels like church.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like I don't, y'all, I don't go to church.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go to church anymore.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a promise, I don't think I'm God or Jesus.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, that type of coach.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm a southerner, I've been in a lot of churches, not like that.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there is something about if you've ever been to like a black church service in particular, where they talk about you feel the spirit.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: You feel you just you just you you feel and but I I say that so seriously because it a spirit can only emerge when a group of people have come together to create something themselves that's bigger than themselves.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's often how I feel like when it's a large group of folks in that in the office hours, is like I feel like we're creating something that's bigger than ourselves, but that's really feeding our souls.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this can only happen in community.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I reflect on like, okay, what have I learned from past situations to even fix that?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was also in rooms of other coaches, right?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: We want to be with our same people because we think, but then I didn't like how they were doing it.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't like how, oh, you're like the celebrity, and and I should, I'm a minion that should be so grateful to be in your presence.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have five minutes to share the question I have.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I got.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like and I appreciate you giving me that feedback because how I like doing starting office hours or even talks, I always say I'm not the only expert here.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: We all have different lived experiences.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll pull in and different experts.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone was kind of teethering, should I work with Elaine or not?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: What would you share with them?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: Say hell yeah.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, is there anything else to say?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: So my advice for anyone who wants to work with you.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're generally unsure about whether Elaine is a good fit or not, or if you're ready or not, then just don't do it.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, don't do it.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's better to maybe have some other experiences, it's better to have more time.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's better better maybe even to sit longer on your couch and create the website or or recreate the website, right?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that when you do arrive at this experience, that you are ready to utilize Elaine for her wealth of experiences, wealth of resources.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't want you to arrive here and just expect her to pave the path for you because it's not actually what happens.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I think you have to have the fire to want it, and Elaine will meet you exactly there.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I I want to compliment you though.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I knew you were gonna fucking kill it these seven months because you did have that fire.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, this this this is the Nigel, the Nigija guy that I mean.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: You fire, you find her.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but I but I I think I really do think so because I feel like that hunger in my own self of like really wanting to go after it helped me then be creative in ways that I wouldn't have been, and then ask you questions that that could have only emerged because I was very open to this experience.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't like, what's Elaine gonna tell me to do?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: But rather than Yeah, I appreciate you girls saying that.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think so often people think it's like, okay, you're gonna tell me what to do.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I have to write even people when I meet them for the first time.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I will guide you, yes, you know, give you frameworks, powerful questions to think and reflect on, but it's up to you to like do that inner work of like, is this aligned to me or not?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: As you gather the data from people or even my message, like for example, I'm la Ucechi shared earlier that she was a poet for the Paris Olympics.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember she shared that one time in one of our coaching calls.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Ucechi, why is this not on your website or everywhere?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: You need to say that over and over again.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I invited Ucechi to an event.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was a certified minority-owned business event.
• 55:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: She insured herself that way.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, Oh yeah, and I'm a poet, I was a poet for the 2024 parasyllabics.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know how many people drop their jaws?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was like, Ucechi.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you've got to say.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, and that's the shit like that, where you're like, I genuinely, and it's it's not I it's something I'm very proud about, but I was still at a point where I wasn't really putting two and two together that that would even be valuable.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Testing, like we said in the beginning, you know, and having someone there who can reflect back to you.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the second kind of person that is actually a very great fit is someone who is driven but unsure about which idea they should best pursue from like a more intuitive perspective, but then also like a logical perspective.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you have a lot of um exercises and resources that people can do to look at like, okay, I'm at the I feel like I might get fired.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I need to change my life, I feel like I want to start a business, and I have all these different things that are here, but I'm in this like analysis paralysis mode, and I'm not quite sure which one I should attack, but I feel very driven to figure out that thing.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're very skilled at helping folks like go from like a jumble of ideas to something more specific and feel that they've really tested it out.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're going into it.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just this like leap of faith or just vibes or because my mama says she loves me, not stuff like that.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: But like, oh, I've interviewed people, I've tested out in myself, I've gone in these different spaces, I've pitched, whatever.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: And now I know that not only do I like doing this or love doing it from an intuitive space, but that whatever my aims are and however I want to be monetarily rewarded in the marketplace, that there will be alignment there.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the second kind of person that could be a very good fit for you.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go back to like we were talking about testing and jumble, even in my business eight months in, and I posted it the same, I posted it just today of I just hosted my first self-defense workshop.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had I've had a passion for martial arts like for 21 years, and I didn't think I could add this to my business.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it makes sense.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: I do business and executive coaching for women of color and allies, so why not add this education on safety in real-world scenarios?
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: And when I mean real-world scenarios, like what happens if someone bear hugs you or if someone robs your home.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was just like, wait, and it's fun and exciting.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: But we've talked about a lot of the process of how to start deal with pivots.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about me.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just a little teaser for all of you for like, no, I don't want Ucechi to go.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: She's coming back for a second episode.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I really do love Ucechi's framework and talking about money and the way she does.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to tease our audience a little bit about the work you do, how you how you could help people.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll go more in depth in the next episode.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what really makes my practice different is that I I've developed a three-part framework that I've found is it helps around like three main levers that we tend to experience around money.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: One, emotional dysregulation and kind of dealing with trauma or dealing with family histories.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: Two, just um being a bit confused about how to manage all the numbers, all the moving numbers that are quite complicated in their lives.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then three, the need for ongoing support in order to actually implement it.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this wheel, um, I just call it like the AAA method for money and investing.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that first phase is called awareness.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: The second phase is called analysis, and the third phase is called accountability.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, I found in my work as a financial planner that these three things, when they work in tandem, are what help catapult, not just like wealth, because this wealth is, you know, it can be fleeting.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: The markets fill up, the markets are gonna are gonna go to town, life is gonna change.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: But wealth really is this ongoing process of deepening your values, I think, and using your money to live more and more and more in line with your values.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that it takes a three-part process.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we'll talk more about.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna have to follow and subscribe this podcast for you to be alerted when the episode's gonna drop.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uceachi, thank you so much.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so proud of you.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very, very grateful for you.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not sad because you know I'm gonna keep forwarding you emails.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're now we're besties, it's fine.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I jump around, like my goal with clients, like, sure, the results are amazing, but the goal is like, I want a ring of friendship.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want a crazy umblettos.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna take to the next level, just a full ombletto.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate and love you, Chechi.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh me too.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: If this conversation resonated with you, because it did for me.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was taking notes in my journal.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is why I love coaching, because it's not just my clients learning from me, it's me learning from them.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: I really meant it in the interview where when I am even with my clients, I share with them, I'm not the only expert here.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: There is wisdom in you, in your past experiences, and it is only you that will know how to trust and acknowledge your voice and what's important for you moving forward.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, for you, the listener, whether maybe you are rebuilding after a layoff getting fired, or maybe you're worried one or the other might happen, or maybe you are dreaming of starting your own thing, your own business.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: Just a reminder that you can.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope Ucechi's story reminded you that it is possible, even in a hard year like 2025.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this decade, let me tell you.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know someone that would resonate with this episode, please share this with them.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: The reason being is that I created this podcast as a free accessible resource for others.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want the same type of clarity and support for yourself, like what Ucechi got from working with me, let's talk.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can schedule an introductory coaching call with me at elanelew.com forward slash call.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's E-L-A-I-N-E-L-O-U.com forward slash call.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: The links are also in the show notes if you need a look.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if this episode made you feel seen, supported, or even slightly more optimistic in other alternatives of your career, then I'd love for you to leave a five star rating and review.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: It helps more women of color and allies like you find the show.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: All right, me and U Chachi will talk to you in a few weeks.