Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #121: Social Media & the Future of Hunting with Janis Putelis

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #121: Social Media & the Future of Hunting with Janis Putelis · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan in this episode number one and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: today on the show, we're joined by Janis Patelis, producer
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of the Mediator TV show, and we're discussing the implications
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of social media on the future of hunting. All right,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: by Sick of Gear, and today we are tackling an
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: important topic, especially for this time of year. And I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: know what some of you might be thinking. You know,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: it's hunting season. You want a podcast packed with hunting
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: advice right now, And I get that, but stick with
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: me on this one because I think in the long run,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I think the topics will discuss today are just as important,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: if not more so, than how to get an arrow
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: or bullet into a big old buck. But what happens
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: when you do get that arrow or that bullet into
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a big buck. Well, for many of us, it probably
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: means we're gonna be posting a picture or video or
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: something about this animal or this experience on social media.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: You know, whether that's Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat or
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: some other crazy new thing. I don't know about you,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: but I love getting to see all the big buck
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: pictures and the updates from across the country this time
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: of the year. But at the same time, social media
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: is this weird double edged sword which in many ways
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: is now leading to a growing spike in anti hunting
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: media attention and just a lot of kind of crazy stuff.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: You know, take for example, the whole media storm created
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: recently surrounding the Bomar bear spearing video and the whole
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: under armor deal, or any of the recent African hunting
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: photos that have caused various frenzies here in the States.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: You know, whether we like it or not, what we
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: post online and how we present ourselves to the outside world,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: it's becoming a major factor in the future of hunting
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: in America, in North America, and really across the entire world.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So well, that said, today we're joined by Janice ptel
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Us to discuss this kind of messy topic of social media,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: anti hunters, the importance of non hunters and how they
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: perceive hunting, and a lot more along those lines. In
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: addition to being the producer of Steven Ronella's Meat Either
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: TV show. Janice is just a just a very informed
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: and thoughtful person when it comes to topics such as these.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So I think the end result here is that we
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: had just a really interesting and thought provoking conversation that
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I think if you guys can take a little time
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: to day to to dig into this one and do
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: little thinking, I think you'll find it really valuable. I
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: hope you will. So with that said, before we dive
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: into this whole discussion, we do need to thank our
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: partners at Sick of Gear for their longtime support of
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: this podcast. And today's sick of story comes from another
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Sick employee, Alex Tannembaum. And Alex came to hunting late
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: in life, and in this story, he recalls one of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: his very first bow hunts for white tails from a
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: tree stand and a pretty profound lesson that he learned
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: from this experience. Because it's getting light, you know, I
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I see some movement like, oh man, like that's a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that's a deer, Like there are dear here, Like this
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: is crazy, and you know the trail underneath of me,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I thought for sure it was like a cattle trailer
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: was just so heavily used like there, and they're walking
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: straight on it like they're gonna come like right under
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: my stand, and and uh, you know, it's a buck
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, now it's two bucks. Oh no,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: it's three bucks. Like they're just hanging out together and
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and uh, I have no idea what to do. I'm
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm going like, you know, my heart's just raising
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: a million miles an hour. I'm like I don't even
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: have an arrow knock, you know, Like so I'm like
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: pull an arrow out and and uh, you know, and
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: and it's a mechanical and so like the blades like
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: pop out, and I'm like, you know, so like putting
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the blades back in and and uh get the thing knocked.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm all shaky, you know, try to like stand
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: up in the stand, and I'm like just you know,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the whole stand is shaking underneath me because my legs
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: just like you know, I can't can't you know, you
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: just can't can't get can't get calm, can't get normal,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: and uh and and these things they're just common and
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: comming and coming and I'm like, oh man, like they're
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: well inside of twenty Like I don't know, I've never
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: shot from a tree stand before. I'm like wait, like
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: like trying to think about like, Okay, where's their heart?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: What's the angle I should shoot at? Like you know,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: like is a as they're like as as they're coming
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: straight at me? Like is that okay? Like can it
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a good idea and uh you know,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: like a frontal from above Like no, I'm feeling like
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: physics says that's a bad idea. And uh so they're
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  Speaker 1: underneath me, and like I mean I'm looking straight down
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: into like the basket you know, like on each of them,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: like this is the coolest thing in the world. And
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not even thinking about drawing my bow at this point,
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  Speaker 1: Like I'm just shaking that these things are here and
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: they're totally gonna like you know know I'm here. And
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and so then I'm like thinking all of like the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: things that I've heard and seen, you know, on hunting
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  Speaker 1: TV and like the very limited amount that I've you
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: know seen, you know, like oh, you shouldn't look at them,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: like they'll feel you looking at them. And so I'm
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: like looking up like at this guy like trying to
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: like look at him with my peripheral vision like somehow
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: like I know that there's like no a scientific basis
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  Speaker 1: for that, but you know, just just all the all
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  Speaker 1: the superstitious, stitious, all the superstitious stuff, you know that
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: that just it's flooding through my brain as I'm trying
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: to figure out what to do with these deer. And
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and the trail like never allows them to
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: really like get broadside, like they're like dead under me.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Like they're walking away like dead away, you know. And
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and and like I said, coming full front on and
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  Speaker 1: there's none of that felt right to me. Um. And
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: and so you know, I just kind of let them
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: walk and let them walk and let them walk, and
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: they're just having such a like they just seem like
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: they're having such a relaxed morning. And uh, about thirty
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: five yards out they did they kind of, you know,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: made a turn. Um it might have been because I
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: made some noise. It's hard to say. And uh so
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I drew and we are going to pause right there.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: And next week returned to Alex's story to hear how
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: this encounter ended and what else learned from this whole experience.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: And it's a little bit surprising what ends up happening here.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: So that said, this was a Sit Coast story. And
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: if you'd like to learn more about sick Gear and
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: their technical hunting apparel, you can visit sika gear dot com.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: And now let's get back to the show and get
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Janice patel Us on the phone. All right with us.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Now on the line is Janice patel Us. Welcome the show, Yannice.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me Mark. Yeah, we uh, we already
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: had an interesting conversation about the Latvian Janice is in
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: various names off air here second ago, so Dan Dan
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: shared for everyone who's just tuning in now, Dan already
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: talked about the fact he might be mad at Janice,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: so keep that in mind everyone, but hopefully that's not
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: gonna be an issue. Yes, we we are excited to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: have you here. And um, you know I have I've
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: been listening to you on the Meat Eater podcast for
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: a couple of years now, I think, and have always
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: been really interested in your perspective and what you had
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: to share and your experiences and different things on those lines.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So your guy I wanted to talk to on this
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: podcast for some time now, I guess though, Before we
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: dive into some of the different sticky topics that we're
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: going to talk about here. Can you just tell us
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself what you're doing today in
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: the hunting world. Uh. And and maybe I got there,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah you bet. Um, try to keep it. Uh it's
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: a sinct um. I produced the Meat Eater television program,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: which is hosted by Stephen Ronnella. So. I worked for
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: a production company called zero point zero Production. They're actually
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: based out of New York, but we have a satellite
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: office now in Bozeman. So that's where I get to live,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: which is a pretty sweet deal. Um. So that's what
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: eats up most of my you know, so called working time. Uh.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I also do a little thing called hunt to Eat
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: on the side with my brother. It's just a like
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: a lifestyle brand kind of a project. We just we
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: basically make hunting T shirts, uh for those people that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: aren't happy with the hunting T shirts they can find
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: in the major retailers. Um. That's at least how I
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: like to sell it. Um. And I guess how I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: got here. Uh. I moved to out West Colorado at
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the ripe page of eighteen skipped after high school education
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and I just got jobs working in restaurants and whatnot,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: and quickly got involved in guid in Elk Cohns and
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Gutten uh fly fishing for trout in Colorado, and uh
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: that kind of fast forwarded a dozen years. Uh and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I ended up in Alaska actually for a job with
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: my wife's and uh from there just through some random,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: very random, small world type stuff, UM met uh met
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Steve Ronella, and uh ended up getting hired on is
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: what we call a w p A, which is a
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Wilderness production assistant, UM, which is a position that's kind
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: of unique to meet here. I mean, I mean, I'm
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: sure other production companies have that position, but I think
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: we we're kind of the ones that coined uh w
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: p A. So anyways, you basically start out as just
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a gear mule, and that was almost exactly four years ago,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: four years ago maybe a month that I basically hauled
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: up a you know, seventy five pound pack up a
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: mountain a few times. And uh, four years later, you know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I've produced the television program. Um. So does that gonna
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: give you a good enough background? How old are you?
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Thirty eight years old? Okay, yeah, married for oh boy,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: approximately thirteen years and uh, father of through awesome girls. Um,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: one just turned five and the youngest is about to
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: turn three here in December. Here's the question I have.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: You and me we grab barbecue one day this summer
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: in Bozeman, and you told me that you traveled. I'm
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: gonna get the number wrong. It was like an astronomically
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: high number. I don't it was like a hundred fifty
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: days or something crazy. So my question is a what
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: is that number? And then how do you pull that
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: off with the wife and kids? Because me and Dan
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: both need some advice on that front. Yeah, well, I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: think first foremost, like with the wives, that you have to,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: you know, set the expectations before you get involved in
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: something like that. And um, it worked out really well
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: for me. We actually talked a lot about this last week.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: We're on a moose hunt, and um, if anybody's been
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: mouse hunt knows you kind of sit around a lot
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: and wait for the moose to show if you don't
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: really go chasing. Rounds. Were a lot of time to talk,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and my dad was there and Steve was there, and
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: we talked a lot about these relationships and uh, I was,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I was. We were trying to I guess prophesies you know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: or wondering if we prophesied when we met our counterparts, um,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: or are you know, not our counterparts, but are you
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: know other halves, if you could ever like you know,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: guesses at how good or bad it might be. You know,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: because I got married at like twenty four years of age,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: there's like no way I could have possibly been like, oh, yeah,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be great in fifteen years. You know. There's
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: just like no way that I knew that. Like I'm
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: just I just wasn't smart enough, you know, and didn't
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: have that kind of foresight. And so I definitely I
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: feel like I got really lucky. But anyways, I got
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: really lucky in the fact that, like my wife spent
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of time in the field and was away
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: from me in the summers, and then I would leave
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: in the fall, and so it just kind of was
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: always a part of our life, um, the fact that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: we had large sunks of time away. And it's a
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: volved over the years. Um. But now that I'm gone
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: roughly a hundred days a year, you know, shooting meat eater, um,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: and it might be a little bit more. I haven't
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: actually done account um in a couple of years. It
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: might be a little bit more now because we travel
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: a little bit for the podcast and UM shot show
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: of stuff like that eats up some time too, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: it's just always been a part of our lives and
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: the way I guess we look at it is that
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: that affords us the ability to have, um, just a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: very interesting life at home when I am at home,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and it affords us, um, the ability for my wife
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: to stay at home with the kids and raise our kids,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: which is um, you know, huge in our book that
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: they get to spend that much time with their mother. UM.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: And when I am home, you know, they're like, dude,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: what what just happened on the latest adventure? You know?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And I'm at home telling them about moose haunts and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you know, wolverine sightings and grizzly bear sightings and you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: sleeping out in the you know, on the dirt for
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: nine straight days and you know, flying around in super
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: cubs and uh, it just makes for an engaging conversation. So, UM,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's better or worse than every
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: day of the week, you know. And you know, nothing
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: against guys that are bankers, but like, I just got
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a feeling that the guy from the bank doesn't like talk,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: you know, quite so he's not quite as excited when
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: he comes home to talk to his kids about banking
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: as someone that comes home and tell him tell him
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: about big adventures. You know, I think you're right. Um,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: does that answer your question? It does. It's funny. Um.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Two people, I know you run around with a lot.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Steve and then Randy Newburgh gave me some of the
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: best advice on this topic. One time I was talking
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to Steve and he just told me, pick your battles
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: like and and more so than pick your battles, don't
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: battle like give your wife they win on everything, because
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you want to win all the hunting conversations. So he
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: just said, I don't complain about the sheets. I don't
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: complain about when we're going to dinner, I don't come
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: playing about the birthday party. I don't complain about the
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: fact that she doesn't want me staying out late for
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: X thing or Y thing or whatever. You know. He
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: just said, you know, if you want to be traveling
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and doing all these things, just let her have the
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: other stuff. Um and then and I thought that was
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: a great advice. And then number two. You've probably heard
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Randy say this. He talks about um, peace over justice.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Peace is more important than justice when it comes to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: some things. So those two things I keep in mind
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a lot, and it's it's worked okay for me so far.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So oh man, I try to and it's very easy
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: to preach that and you know, much harder to practice it, true,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: you know, as with anything. But yeah, I definitely you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: have heard those same piece of advice thrown around a
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: couple of times, and they go a long way. You know.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: He just really had to decide what's important, you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and go from there. Have you guys seen the movie
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: The Flight of the Navigator? No I haven't, You haven't,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, anyway, long story short, this guy gets
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: in a spaceship and he goes around the planet whatever
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it's basically a time travel device, comes back to Earth
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and he knocks on his door and it it's his dad,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: but the dad doesn't recognize him. Like so for me,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: if I was on a hundred fifty days, I would
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: knock on my door when I came back and there
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: would be a new husband at the door. So so
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: you know, that's one battle you can't win. Amen, Believe me,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: that has crossed my mind. It's like when you're gone
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: long enough and you come home, I'm not so worried
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: about another husband being there, but like you walk in
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the door and you having your kids, be like, dude,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: you don't even look the same. You know, you're look
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: who are you? They're always changing, you know, and uh,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you kind of wonder if that's every You know, it's
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: definitely on your mind. There's no escaping it. So, UM.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: One other thing I want to I want to come
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: kind of curious, but I feel a lot of people
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: are probably curious about, UM, is what do you do
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: as a producer for a show like that? Um? Because
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I think people see Steve or someone totally
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: run around the mountains and then there's some cameraman. But
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: what does Jani's Ptelius to do during one of these great,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: big crazy trips? Yeah, well it starts a long time
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: before the trip. Um. The beginning is probably when you know,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Steve and I are just on a phone or chatting
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: up somewhere, you know, waiting at the airport somewhere, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, like right now we're looking
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: at spring hunts and activities and adventures and just talk
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: about what we want to do and where the show
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: wants to go, and you know, what topics we want
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to cover in the show, and just decide on what
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: adventures you know, where we're gonna go, what we're gonna do. Um.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And then once we kind of get that little you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: more finalized, I'll start you know, researching, um, the trip
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: itself and just finding out if it's if it's doable,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: if it's really going to be right for the show. UM,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: if we're gonna have you know, guests on the show,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: or you know, somebody might be kind of hosting us
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: there on location, UM, you know, get ahold of them,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and just kind of get as much research, you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: no differently than you would do it, you know, get
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: research in a place to go hunt, you know, but
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: just trying to get all the ground where it kind
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of figured out what it's gonna take to be there
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: and whether we're camping or if it's gonna be a
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: night in a hotel here there. And UM, I'm lucky
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: enough now to have a team underneath me that UM,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: once we do pick a location, they'll, um, I'll just
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you know ask them to get flights for the crew.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: UM and that and the crew to you know, so
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I do most of the hiring now of the cinematographers
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that work for us, and our willness production assistance. Um,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: because usually on a shoot, you know, most I don't
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: know about most I shouldn't say, because I really don't know.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: On our shoot, if there's just Steve um by himself
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: on a shoot, it'll be Steve a camera person, UM,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: a mainshooter camera person, and then we'll have a long
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: lens you know kind of specialists will also work on
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: production stills and other specialty cameras for doing time lapses
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And then sometimes even yet we'll
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: have an assistant and then myself UM and UM. So yeah,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it's a big crew. We can have a footprint of
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: four or five with just a solo show, and so
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: when it bumps to a guest, we're almost always at six.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And uh, sometimes we're limited because of you know, we
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: just want to take less airplanes into a location. If
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: we had to fly into a you know, backcountry spot
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: in Alaska, and so we'll drop a guy and just
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: everybody will kind of you know, split up that guy's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: responsibilities and then just you know, carry a little bit
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: more on their shoulders, so to speak, um, both in weight,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you know, and in just job responsibility. But yeah, so
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: once everybody's hired and we figure out who's going where
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and what, you know, all the logistics you know, get
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: figured out. Um. And I tried to do as much
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: pre production research as I can and just trying to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: figure out, you know, not only just about the hunt.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Hopefully we have like a good idea of what the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: hunt's gonna be, just because someone gave us a good
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: tip about a haunt or you know, just a cool
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: location and go check out or what that might be.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: But just getting Steve some interesting information about the location
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: or the people, the culture, and you know, any of
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: its relative to hunting, you know, in those three topics,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I'll try to kind of pick that out and write
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: something up for Steve. At the same time, I'll write
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: up what we call a treatment for our cinematographers that
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of these guys aren't necessarily hunters, and they
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: haven't spent you know, they've spent a lot of time
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: in the field. We definitely hire people that are backcountry savvy,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: but they may not may not have been hunters, and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: so I write up a treatment that if you've never
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: been on a moose hunt, this is kind of what
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: to expect. You know that there'll be a scene where
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: we're you know, getting off planes and flying in here,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and there'll be another scene of you know, calling moose,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: and another scene where you know this and this happens,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and then oh, the moose is a thousand pounds, so
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it's gonna take five hours to you know, butcher and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: pack the moves probably, so be prepared for this and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: just kind of rite out scenes, not really right out
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the show, but just to really give the cinema photographer
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: is kind of an idea of what to expect. Um.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: A lot of times I'll get photographs just off Google
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: images of areas that I can share with them and say, hey,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: this is what it looks like when we shoot this show.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: This is kind of what we would like the show
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: to look like, whether it's you know, I'll use words
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: like give me a lot of big landscapes and big wides,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: you know, really show that the massiveness of the you
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: know country we're in, um where if it's a tighter place,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you know, like say a swamp where you're just chasing
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: rabbits around, you know, those shots aren't even available, so
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: it might everything might just happen much more intimately. You know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you need just need a lot more shots of you know,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the macro flora, fauna, um, just you know, small stuff
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that is going on in the location. UM. So again
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that's all pre production, and once we get there, UM
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: on location, obviously it's logistics of getting everybody where they
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: need to be, UM doing you know, getting food bought
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: whatever for a camp and trip whatever that might be,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and then we go into the production cell for the hunt.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: At that point, UM, I get a lot of questions
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: asked to me, but most of the time I'm just
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: kind of sitting back and maybe taking notes on what's happening.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And that way, those notes I can use to basically
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: write up UM notes that can then give to my editor,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: who will then again not being a hunter, needs to
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: know like, all right, you guys shot all this stuff
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: of this you know, sitting around making this weird moaning
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: sound waiting on a moose. I don't really get it,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you know, what was going on here, And so I
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: have to write these notes to kind of say, all right,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: look at it this way, this is what we're doing here,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: This is why we did it. This is why it's interesting.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Um So during the shooting, that's kind of my main
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: focus is to just to really be thinking about the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: notes and if I feel like we need something out
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: of Steve just to kind of drive the story along
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit or to to you know, I just
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: need him to expand on an idea. UM A lot
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: of times I'll just have a quick conversation with Steve
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, man, you know this I think is interesting.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: We should talk a little bit more about this when
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to you. And then um,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: with Steve, a lot of times it's not like, hey,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: let's check in right now about what's going on with
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: moose hunting. We'll just have like a kind of a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: grander vision or a grander idea and I'll say, man,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that was interesting about how you know, the biologist talked
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: about how the moose, uh, you know, interact with the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: amount of pressure of hunters in this burn area wherever.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: It might be about something that we read in that
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: pre research, you know, stuff that I was doing, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: then a day later, maybe Steve will look at the
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: camera and give me something really interesting about you know
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: that topic. Um So I try to kind of urge
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: him along a little bit. I guess to uh, if
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting, usually it's gonna be interesting to
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the viewers. Um, and uh are you are you the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: guy that makes Steve interesting? Then? Are you know? Um,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: you know, there's probably maybe you know, one percent, you know,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yanni in every you know show of like a little
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: drop of you know, actually a bit of information that
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: might come out of his mouth, something that we've talked about,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: you know, through the course of making the show. But no,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's definitely Steve. He's Uh, it's pretty amazing,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you know when it when it comes to that, And um,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know about how much you know,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: background he has in the in the writing world and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: just what a talented writer he is, and how much
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that you know, really um kind of forms who he
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: is as a television host. Um, it goes a long way,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, you know, I think he's great as
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: a host of the show. But I actually I am
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a fan of Steve most for his writing. I love
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: his books and the articles he's done and everything. But um,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: but I got I got something I'm kind of curious
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: about this related to what you've just shared. It's also
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: kind of related to this larger overarching topic I was
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: hoping we touch on, and that's kind of you know,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the how hunting is perceived by the public and how
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: social media and the greater hunting industry media, you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: all sort of forms those perceptions, and I'm kind of curious,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you know, with with the media or TV show, at
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: least from my perspective, I think it's one of the
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: shows that does a better job of um, of showcasing
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: what hunting is about and who we are as a
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: community in a positive light. And I'm just kind of
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: curious how much of that, you know, went in on
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the front end when you guys are creating these shows
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and episodes and thinking about the direction of the show,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: whether it be an individual episode or just the overarching
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: theme of what you guys have created over this. So,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: however many seasons there have been, how much do you
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: think about that? Is us anything about all? Um? I
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: definitely think about it, and that's part of you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I wasn't in at ground zero with Meat Eat or
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: you know, I came in about um, you know, maybe
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: a year and a half into it, so they kind
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: of had that they had their vision I think fairly
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: well ironed out and and and we're on a path.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Um I hope that I've added, you know, to to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: that and you know, made the message stronger. Um only
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: we we necessarily have like ever created something like reactionary
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to you know, kind of what you're talking about, But
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: we've definitely not. We just want to make our own
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: hunting show. We we didn't. Like. Steve is always stressing
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: that I actually watched less Hunting TV because and and
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: he'll tell you this about writing too. It's like he
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of times tries not to read, um, stuff
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that's similar to what he writes, because that can influence
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the and like what you put out as a creative
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and I think the same thing kind of goes with
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: what we do as a hunting TV show. And so
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: we try to really just kind of make it original
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and make it our own, and that in turn has
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: become what you see. So it hasn't been like because
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: we're trying to make a certain message or whatever. It's
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: just like, this is what hunting is to us, and
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: we're gonna share it. And it just so happens that
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: it's turned out to be you know what you see
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: and kind of what people call this, like, you know,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: a better way to portray hunting. What kind of feedback
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: have you guys gotten on that. I feel like I've
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: heard you guys talk about getting a lot of positive
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: feedback from either beginning hunters or non hunters. But I mean,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: is that right? Do you guys get a lot of
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: people commenting about that or talking about that? Yeah, it's constant.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, emails and you know, Facebook messages
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and you know, every social media avenue you can think of.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: We get every day positive feedback, very little negative, you know.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, you always have haters, but really it's very
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: little negative, you know. And um, it's definitely good to hear,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: you know. And and some of the greatest feedback you
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: know that I've seen that And why I really I'm
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: just like just so happy and you know, proud to
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: be a part of it is when we get you know,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: like a letter from a senator or you know, just
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: someone like kind of high up and like conservation organization
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: that writes us like a personal letter to thank you know,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: really more Steve, but us for doing what we do
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: because they feel like it's making a difference and it's
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the right message. And uh, when you get those people
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: you know that that taking that time to do that,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you go, wow, that's cool, you know. I mean not
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: to discount when we get new hunters going, Man, you
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: guys change my life and I'm so into hunting now
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: and I'm cooking on time before I because I love
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Osabuco now because you guys, I mean I get you know,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: just as high off of that too. Um well, there's
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: definitely something special when we get just some like just
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that really heavy hitting feedback. You know, yeah, for sure.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: What do you think about the rest of the hunting
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: media outside of what you guys are doing with media
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: or do you I don't know, what are your thoughts
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: on do you pay attention to the rest of the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: media world. Do you do you think it's is it
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: showing is it showing us off in the right light?
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Do you think, oh man, that's tough one, that's a
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: loaded one there mark the attention And really it just
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: comes down to probably the biggest reason that I don't
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: pay as much attension and maybe I should is because
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: like I have my time that I spend at the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: office and and like a lot of times I feel
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: like it's kind of hard to be Instagram and or
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Facebook and at the office because it just doesn't seem
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: right in my head. And then when I go home,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I try to really practice like just shutting it all down,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: putting it all the way and like it's kids time,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: it's family time, and that's where I need to be.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: And so if missing out on the rest of hunting
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: media is you know, if that's the what I had
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to give, um, that's just how it's gonna be, you know.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So um, you know, I mean we we all hear
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: about the stuff it's in the news. Uh, you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the cecils and the bear spearing as of late. Um,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: don't you know it's uh well, I don't know if
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: that stuff it's the media when it grabs hold of it,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: obviously it's not. It's not great for us. Um. And
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: it see, it does seem like sometimes when we're making
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of headway with you know, good positive men
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: that you get it's kind of a big blowback. But
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: at the same time, I think that I'm hoping that
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: with positive messages out there, that those just have like
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: a stronger foundation to have longevity to where now, like
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the story I always tell everybody is I have an
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: aunt who is a like full on Buddha chanting vegan,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: almost vegan, pretty much vegetarian, like just what I call
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: like over the tai woo woo. Now. I love her.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: She's an awesome person. I love hanging out with her,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: but like definitely not something that you would when you
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: met her, you'd be like this person probably not into hunting.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: But because of the way that I've talked about hunting
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and portrayed hunting to her over now that's been you know,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: twenty years now. She tells me the other day that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: she's at some like art she does art, and and
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: she's had some uh a like a show what do
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: they call those? At the gallery? Like a I guess
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: it's just an art show, right. She's showing off some
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of her pieces a bunch of other artists there, and
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: she overheard something. She overheard some strangers talking smack about honey.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: She felt the duty on her shoulders to walk over there,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: introduced herself, you know what, not all hunters are like
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about and on behalf of hunting, Da
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: da da dada, and kind of went on to defend
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: hunting and this like different version of hunting that she
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: knows of because of talking to me for you know,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: twenty years or whatever. So I'm hoping that that kind
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of stuff just like again that strong you don't just
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: have longevity where these little nitpicky things that pop up
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: in the media because you know, someone just made a
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: mistake or someone you know didn't think you know, about
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: what they were doing, about their action, and it kind
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: of blew up that that stuff is gonna fade away.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: And even after that happens, my aunt is still gonna
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: probably you know, go out there and speak on behalf
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: of hunting. Although she'll never kill anything in her life,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you know, she asked, actually asks the aunts to leave
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: um her back porch as opposed to like, you know,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: killing him with some sort of sex side or whatever. Okay,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: so that like really paints to pick who she is.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: She's not killing anything, but yet she felt compelled to
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: speak on behalf of hunting. I think that is a
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: really really great example of the power of the disproportionate
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: power of in person interactions when it comes to this
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: type of stuff. You know, like your personal interaction with
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: someone and your personal representation of hunting is going to
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: be much more powerful than anything someone might see on TV.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: So I think that's an important thing for all of
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: us to keep in mind. Probably, you know that one
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: time that we interact with such and such non hunter
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: or so and so woo w person. You know what
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: we say, how we say, it might be their one
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: in person interaction with somebody like us, a hunter, and
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: that might form their entire perception of what this community
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: is all about. You know. So that's an interesting Yeah,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: all these little blips that everybody gets through their phone
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: or whatever, it just doesn't stay in your head that long,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, what what do you think about the
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: whole under arm or issue? You know, you you kind
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: of referred to the spearing deal. What's your take on
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: all that? We haven't talked about this on the podcast yet,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: so I'm curious about your thoughts and dance too. Yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you're probably itching to talk about it, I'm sure, Um,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you know, and I've gotten the chance now since it's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: been a while. I mean, heck, it's been a month
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: at least, you know, I mean the video has been
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: out for many months, but I guess the blow up
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is about a month ago or so. Um, you know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I got no problem with people's spearing animals at all. Actually, Uh,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: when I was a young hunting guy, we used to
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: always we hunted wallows a lot, you know, and we
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: kind of got this idea that we would one day,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: you know, basically lay down in a wallow, you know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: with a spear and when that bowl came in there,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: you know, you're trying to spear a bowl. So it's
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: not like I've never thought about doing it. And uh,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: it's like I give um what's his name that did it?
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Some Yeah, Josh, I give him mad props for what
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: he did because it's like I know, and I did
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: listen to a podcast where he was interviewed by the
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Greedy Bowman guys, and like, you know, that guy did
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: an amazing amount of training and act as he's like
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a collegiate javelin thrower. Like it's like I would need
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: two years of practice probably until I could think about
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: going and using spear on animals. So like, yeah, it's
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: amazing props for what he did. Um, I feel that
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: maybe a little bit the way that it was portrayed
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: on the video there was um the I think and
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: not my personal opinions, but within the you know, kind
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: of group I run with here in Bozeman and just
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: you know, people that are involved with us and work.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: You know, we talked a lot about it when it happened,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and um, I think the thing that got most people
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: it was kind of the excessive celebration afterwards, at least
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: like around here, that seemed like it was just like
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: a little bit distasteful and maybe a little disrespectful. And
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: again I'm not saying that that's what he meant by it,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: or that that's what he was doing, but that's how
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: it came across on that video. And I think that
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that is like the biggest thing that we just have
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to when we are putting stuff out there in the media,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: that we have to watch out for. It's like, it
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it's legal, if it's ethical, if you
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: did everything right, you gotta think about how you're putting
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: it out there. And I had a friend of mine saying,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: asked me, He's like when we were having the same conversation,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: he said, well, you like spend every day of your
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: life thinking about how to make non hunters into hunters.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no way, not at all. But
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I do spend time thinking about how to like portray
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: hunting in a good light non hunters, you still be
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: pro hunting and not anti hunting. And so I do
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, that's one of those instances where, um,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: you know, someone whoever somewhere along the lines after it
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: left them and they made it, they maybe just didn't
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: have that producer or that oversight or a dad or
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: someone of a like a just someone to say, hey,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe you should just alter this a little bit,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of other people could
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: have done the same thing, go out and spear bear
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and told that story in a little bit different way,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and it maybe would have been you know, not blowing
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: up the way it did, and it would have been
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: a little more acceptable. Um. Yeah, that's my sense on it. Yeah, no,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I think that you echo a lot of the things
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that are kind of floating around in my head. Um,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: what do you think about how under Armour reacted to
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: it on the other on the flip side of the equation. Yeah, well,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I mean there again, I don't know the numbers enough.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't really delve into under Armour numbers, but I
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: heard a couple of things to the grapevine that like
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: under Armours obviously multibillion dollar company. I think that like
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: hunting is like twenty million bucks for them or something
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: like that. Anyway, So it's like this Mike, you know,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: microcosm of their giant company. So the people that are like,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: oh my god, they're tapping in and just trying to
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: you know, suck money out of hunting. And now they're
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: distant things in themselves from hunting because of this thing.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It's like the kind of but not really, you know,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: they've probably done as much good as they have, you know,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: if any bad at opera hunting, And so I don't
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: really get that argument. Um, I feel that that reaction
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: was pretty normal, um, you know, with the way that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: it blew up on you know, wherever you want to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: call it in the media. And uh, I feel that
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: probably where the mistake was made is that, like I said,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: the right filter wasn't in place early on, because if
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I understand correctly, they actually posted the video long before
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: anybody got mad about it. Is that is that how
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: you understand it? That's correct? Yeah, And so again I
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: just feel like somebody aren't under armor. Wasn't there to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: be like, oh man, you know what, this is cool?
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah, for sure, I kind of feel the same way.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: You know, their business and hunting is a very very
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: tiny part of that business, and they're gonna make a
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: business decision. You know, I don't think you know, we're
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: on your podcast, Dan talking about this earlier this month,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you know, just after it happened, and my whole take
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: on the thing is is probably exactly almost exactly what
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: you just said, you honest. You know. Number one, when
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: it comes to a business, I'm not expecting them to
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: fight on behalf of hunters or you know, uphold our
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: rights or something, because that's not who they are. Maybe
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: if it was a purely hunting company and they were
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: a percent dependent on us, you might expect that. But
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I will always expect a business to make business decisions.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Even though I might not like that and maybe I
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: won't think it's right, it's still probably the realistic expectation
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: we should have. So in this case, like you said,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: you honest, it's a microscopic, tiny piece of their business.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Of course they're gonna air with a larger part of
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: their their customer base. Um. Then to the point of
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: you know, the video itself, I think that's the bigger question,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: or the bigger takeaway I've I've gotten from all this
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: is just what a reminder this, this is of the
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: negative power or negative influence that one mistake. And like
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: you said, maybe it's not a hun percent mistake, maybe
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: it's just a little tweak of how they presented things.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: But whether you like it or not, I guess it's
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: the how significant of an impact one piece of content
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: like this can have if it's not if it's perceived
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: negatively by a large population of people. And I mean
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: we saw coming out of like the cecil stuff you know,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: that was legal stuff that happened over Heck, I can't
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: even remember exactly what all was finally decided on, but
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: stuff going on over there, changed laws related to airlines
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: importing parts and hides and different things from animals over
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Africa that influenced tons and tons of people in this
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: case because of one video that you know, whether they
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: did a great job with it or not, this one
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: video got picked up by the media, picked up by
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: the general public. They perceived it pretty negatively, and now
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden we're seeing spearing becoming illegal in
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: different places. So my big takeaway is what happens. You know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: this is like a what's the right way to say it's, um,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like a warning shot. You know, really
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: serious stuff can come out of these types of quote
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: unquote mistakes. So we need to be careful about what
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: we put out there. We need to make sure that
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: we try to have that filter and think about these things. Now,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: like you said, take an extra second and say, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: how's this gonna go over? Um? Because the ramifications are
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: really significant. As we're starting to see, there are many
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: methods of take that are completely legal in the Lower
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: forty in Alaska, in Canada that if you make a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: video of and really showed it exactly how it goes down,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: people are going to freak out about it. There's nothing
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: wrong with it. It's legal, it's ethnically right. I'm not
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: going to mention what those what those things are, but
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: like there are methods of hunting they're completely legal. But
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: to most people are gonna be like, ah, you know,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: if we hunted with bows and arrows the way that
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: um Art Young and Saxon Pulp that get it right,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: wasn't the opposite? The opposite was it was Art Young?
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I think I mean those if you roll, if you
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: read their stuff from back in the day, they rolled
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: around packing like two hundred arrows into a hunt, and
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: they would fire at all kinds of ranges and fire
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: many many arrows at a single animal to bring it down.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: You go ahead and make a video of that going
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: down right now, and see how and see how fast
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: traditional archery or even archery is gonna last. So then
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: what about this? And Dan, I want to I want
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: to get your take too, but really quick, I'm curious
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: from either one of you. So when we start talking
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: like this, you know, when we start talking about like
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you just said, Younus, there's certain things that if we
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: made videos of it, it would have huge blowback. When
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: we start talking about this, you start getting some people saying, ah,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: stop your pandering, stop pandering now, and a hunter stopped
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: being a big wuss. And you know, we have a
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: right to do this. It's legal, we can do it.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I don't need to apologize about it. Blah blah blah.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: What do you say to that? No, you, I mean,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: they're completely right. You don't have to know not I mean,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: nobody's like forcing them to do that. But if they
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: haven't figured it out yet, you know, laws are made
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know rights are taken away by voting,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: and people will vote. Are hunting so called rights right
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: out from right around from underneath us? Yeah, we're definitely
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: and it What what scares me is the knee jerk
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: reaction type decisions that come out of the stuff. You know,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: like there's this huge outcry and then before even people
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: get to think about it, you know, changes are made,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: you know, laws are changed or stuff happened so fast
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: because of some crazy outcry that now maybe the media
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: or social media or something allows it allows these things
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: to spread so rapidly and then bam, this thing's done.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Um that's what really scares me. And nobody's talking about
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: spearing bears anymore. I mean, I don't know, I've been
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: in the woods for two weeks, but just slipp flipping
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: through Instagram today, there wasn't anybody you know, talking about
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: spearing bears. It's like it's kind of like that conversation's
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: gone right, It's it's in and out. What what do you?
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: What's your tike on all this? Dan? You we we
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: haven't got to have your opinion on this whole deal
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: on weird Hunt. Yet it really sucks because I think
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of issues in this one instance
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: that need to be that need to be talked about,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: and it's not you know, this isn't the podcast to
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: actually talk about it, because it's an entire podcast by itself.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: But for me, you know, kind of a breakdown of it.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Do I think that that hunt could have been edited
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit different before it was released? Yeah? Probably?
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Um do I think that hunters, you know, like the
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: people who are producing this, who are who are we
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: making this for? Do we need to do we need
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: to make sure that we're editing it and putting it out,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you know two, you know, for that the person who
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: may get offended by it. I mean, how how long
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: until we're not showing kill shots on animals anymore on
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: our hunting videos? You know what I mean? Just to
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: just to say I don't want to offend these people
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: so they get piste sign a petition and then my
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: sponsors dropped me. You know, I understand that there's there's
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: a lot to talk about in there. Um. I I'm
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: kind of fired up when it comes when it comes
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: to you know, under armour, they posted the video, shared it.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: We're congratulating Bomar several months before the Antis got ahold
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: of it, they signed up. You know, they put down
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: a petition that you know was upwards of seven maybe
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: under I'm just gonna say under ten thousand dollars or
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: ten thousand signatures before it was all said and done.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: And when all that went through, Um, that just shows
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: me that a company who it was wanting money from
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: us then got pressured by anti Hunters dropped these guys.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: That tells me right there, I'm not for me. I'm
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not gonna buy under Armour again. I'm
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: not gonna wear under Armour clothing again. Um, because they
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: didn't stand behind who were they were trying to get
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: money from. Although yes, it was a good business decision
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: for them, I'm a Hunter. I don't need to support
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: them right there. And you know, and then there's the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: whole issue about you know, like the Druries, the Lakoski's,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: the Eva Shokis to the world, the Cameron Handes of
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the world. You know, why are you still supporting this
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: company when the when they just did not back the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Hunter on this occasion. You know, now we're talking about
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: business again because we know that the guys are getting
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: paychecks front under Armour. These guys are going to be
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: potentially loot if they stood up to under Armour and said,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't like what happened here. There's giant
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: contracts in place that we don't even know about, dollar
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: amounts that we don't even know about, where they could
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: be not only losing, but under Armour could come back
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: and say, all right, well you it was your your
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the reason that you're dropping this sponsorship, so now we
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: can come back in and take some more, you know,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: than what we've actually given you. So that's stuff that
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: we don't even know about that could potentially happen. So
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: of course the druries put out a vague response, you know,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: other celebrities or entertainers put out um no response at all.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And for me that I don't know why, but that
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: kind of rubs me the wrong way because they're making
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: their money off of us, right they they have they're
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: getting their dollar amount, you know, their their money to
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: try to talk to us into purchasing you know, under
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Armory gear. I'm not going to purchase it, so why
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: are you repping it after all that has happened? You know,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: these these are just obviously random thoughts coming into my
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: head all at one time, and no, no organizational you know,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: no organization, but you know, so it's just there's so
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: many things wrong. And then we have the which to
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: me is the most important thing is this has caused
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: even a bigger divide amongst hunters right right, So this
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: is all kind of past right now, right where we've
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: we've forgotten about this. So how long until these anti hunters,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: you know, go to some hunter who does a really
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: and I'm just going to use this as an example, uh,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: goes to the meat Eater television show and says, you
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: know what, I don't like you. I don't like this,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: and they're gonna find a way to get you know.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Ten Tho, However, many people to back these because there's
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: way more crazy assholes out there than there are sane assholes.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: In my opinion. Uh So, I don't know, I'm just
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: firing off random thoughts my brains, firing random random things.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: But I think that this is it's way bigger and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: there's so many topics within this this one instance that
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: you need to break down and talk about. So the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: long story of the long story short, I feel that
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: it's caused even a even a rift between hunters and
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: when we need to kind of look past it and
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: remember that we can't let the ani hunters win no
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: matter what happens. We have to unite and and unite
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: under one voice so that our privileges are rights are
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: not taken away from us. You it. You bring up
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things, which you're right, we could
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: dive into a whole bunch of those. But what you
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: just said there, right, We've talked about this before, but
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I'm curious about your taking honest this whole topic of
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: uniting his hunters versus you know, calling things out like
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: this maybe isn't right or maybe we need to tweak this.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like when that conversation starts happening, Like I
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: know you and Randy had a big conversation about the
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: long distance shooting thing, and how you said, well, okay,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: there's some questions about some of this stuff. When you
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: start having those questions, there's a certain segment of the
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: hunting community will say, you know, if you're raising these questions,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: if you're saying this stuff, you're dividing the hunting community
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: and you're helping the anti hunters or whatever whatever. What
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: do you think about that? Yes, Yeah, I don't sense
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the like the device and is quite as much. And
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: again it might not might be just because I'm not
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: like looking at it in the media and seeing it
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: there as much. Because I feel like I really haven't
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: run into too many people that feel to you outside
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: of this issue that you know that you know than
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I do, or that we've been discussing here. Um, but
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. It's like there's bad apples
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: in every category and every group of people in life.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, for if you want to go there and
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: you can look look at it, Like with the Muslim thing,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: it's like, in my opinion, all Muslims are not bad.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Are there some bad apples right out there right now
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: that are really making them look bad? Especially in American eyes? Yes,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: it's like really really bad. Does that make all Muslims bad?
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And not in my book? So that the same thing
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: with like the Hunting thing, And I feel like with
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: the Hunting thing, if you keep and this is just
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: like an isolated incident, you know, and uh, with with
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: the Bomart thing, I don't feel like he's a dude
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: that's like purposely shooting, like Steve says, shooting holes in
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the bottom of the boat to try to sink our
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: collective boat. But if you have a person is consistently
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: doing that that it's just using rhetoric that is not
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: helping us move forward in a positive direction. And it
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: might even again, it might because he's got he's got
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: the right you know, he's saying okay things, but it's
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: just the rhetoric. It's just the wrong way to say it.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: It's and it's gonna shoot holes in our boat and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: bring our boat down. Well, I do feel like we
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: have to, you know, kick that person out of the
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: boat and say, you know, figure out a different way
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: to talk about what you're talking about. I mean, I
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: think the best thing about all of this is it's
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: just that we should just be cool with talking about
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: it because if anything, all it does is makes all
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: of us more knowledgeable about all these topics. And then
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: hopefully we can have that same conversation with some non
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: hunter and again, you know, build this like just like
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: stronger positive foundation that you know, at least up keeps
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: what we have. Maybe it will never you know, grow bigger,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: but at least we can keep it rolling a little
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: bit longer. I feel like that's always what I end
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: up on this too. Like we start having this conversation
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, like it always comes down to that,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: at a minimum, let's just allow the conversation and try
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: to stay civil and like talk about these things and
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: we don't necessarily to agree on it. But I think
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: it's a net positive if we at least talk about
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: this stuff. It shouldn't not in my opinion, it shouldn't
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: be taboo to talk about some of the stuff, to
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: talk about differences in opinion, or to talk about why
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: maybe X is not what I think is the best
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: way to talk about this or whatever it might be.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I think it's okay to verbalize that talk about it,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: but I think maybe the the key is how we
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: go about doing that. You know, if we're condemning and
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: attacking that kind of stuff publicly, that's probably the stuff
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: that is not constructive. It just shuts people down and
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: gets people defensive. Um, So maybe that I think. I
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: feel like that's like my big takeaway from this conversation.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: They feel like occasionally pops up throughout the years, as
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: we have these different episodes, we kind of jump onto this.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Every once in a while, something happens where these types
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of things get in my mind, and and I think
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: this is something we're probably helping the country in general,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: whether it's hunting or not. Just being civil conversations about
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: differences in opinion would probably be a good thing, um
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: for sure. But it's just to add to that to
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: your like the taboo of just talking about it. It
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be taboo if you have a change of mind,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: if you if we all have a conversation, and at
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: the end of it, I go, you know what, I'm
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: kind of leaning a little bit more towards you know,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: dance thoughts now, Like I just kind of rethought it
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: and like I like what he said and that changed
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: my mind. Don't get mad at me for that. I'm
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: just like learning and rethinking. It's like, it's okay, nobody
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: should get mad about that. That's funny mentioned that I
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: was just having this conversation. I was on an elk
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: hunt last week and we were sitting there talking about it,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: you know, all the stuff in politics. Not to get
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: into our specific political situation now, but you always hear
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: this thing of like flip flapping, like such and such
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: said this ten years ago, but this year they said
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: something totally different. They're a flip flopper, they're horrible, and
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I got you know, you get to thinking you're like,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: you know, evolving views, like being open to learning and
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: adjusting your perspective. How is that a bad thing? You know?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Over time? Of course, there's some examples where it's like
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: obviously switching because of who you're talking to, and I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: know there's cases of that, But in some situations, like
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's such a bad idea for people
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: to be open to evolution and viewing things differently and
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: being open to other perspectives. You know, no, not at all,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: because I'm always hoping that if you're like non hunter,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: anti hunter, that maybe you'll be open to hunting after
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: talking to having a conversation with me. You know, yeah,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: I think And I think one thing that you know,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: back to the under armer thing though, is the power
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: that the anti hunters have, right so, and I also
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: think that a majority of the hunters kind of forget
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: about that kind of thing. They forget, you know, they
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: all they're focused on is what is right in front
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: of their face. So with you know, a majority of
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: the deer hunting seasons opening here pretty soon, if not
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: already opening, they're they're thinking about themselves and what they
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: need to do to be successful in the woods when
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: there is actually a bigger picture out there all year round. Right,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: So we have to realize that if the anti hunters
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: want to band together and you know, do all these things,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: they could probably do it. But so you know, when
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: it comes to you know, preserving our our rights, preserving
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: our heritage, you know, um conservation efforts as well, I
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: just feel that, you know, we have we have people
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: the hunting community just kind of forgets about the important
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: things when it's not right in front of them, when
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: it needs to be in front of them all the time. Yeah,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: nothing's really like stung slately, like just like bid is
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: hard enough to really be thinking that way. I think
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: to your point, it's something we always need to be
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: vigilant of. And then also, at least from my perspective,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not really concerned about anti hunters. You know, like
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: there's that five percent or ten percent or whatever it
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: is that just downright is not going to ever be
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: okay with what we do or anything along these lines.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: But it's that other or nine or whatever it is
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: of non hunters that are kind of in the middle.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: They're on the fence. I think that is those are
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: the hearts we need to win, or at least, you know,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: and right now, for the most part, they are generally
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: you know, okay with hunting in certain contexts. You know,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I think we we talked about the stats a lot.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I can't evenmember what the exact numbers, but
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: a large majority is okay with hunting in general. But
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: when you start talking about, you know, hunting for food, yeah,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: everyone's up for that. But when you say hunting for trophies,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: trophy hunting, then it's down our support of that. So
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: there's all these weird little nuances that the general public,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: you know, how the influences their thoughts. But you know,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I'm getting on tangent. Long story short, I don't worry
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: so much about anti hunters. It's it's how is the
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: rest of the general public perceiving what we're doing? And
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: like people hate thinking about that, Like I know what
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: you're saying. Damn when you talk about you know, how
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: far do we have to go? You know? Can we
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: not show kill shots anymore? Can we not show blood anymore?
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Can we not you know, do we have to completely
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: pander and pretend that this is something that it's not.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I get that, like frustration and I don't know how
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: far stuff is gonna go, and like, I don't like
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: that either. But at the same time, I'm also just
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: a realist and Okay, when X happens, why is the result?
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: So when something gets out there that the non hunting
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: public is not okay with, it is negatively, it is
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: making a real negative change to what we can do
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: our rights or our privileges or whatever it might be. So,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: whether I like it or not, I'm still going to
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: try to make some kind of change to reduce the
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: chances of that negative out come. Whether I think it's
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: right or not, it's just, hey, this is the reality
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: of it, and we need to do something. Um. So
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: it's either we change the reaction, we change how people react,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: or we do something on our end to make sure
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: the reaction doesn't happen. I don't know what the right
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: answer to that is, but for me, it's it's how
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: can I reduce the risk of this negative reaction as
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: much as possible, um while still being able to do
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: what I love. And that's the trick I think for
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: all of us today, I think, and I think that's
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: kind of good. It's kind of where I wanted to
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: steer things next is just how this isn't like just
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: a media thing either. This is like an individual person thing,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's not just the actions of
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: some famous hunting celebrity that could you know, have a
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: negative reaction. It could be Joe Schmo hunter. Um. A
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: big difference, you know is years ago, if I had
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a hunting picture, or if I had a hunting video
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: or hunting store or whatever, the only people that ever
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: would see that would be my friends and family, like
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: the people who get me, the people who have a context,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: the bull that are in my own little tribe. But
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: now with the Internet and everything, I might post that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: on Facebook or post on YouTube or whatever, and you know,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: I made that for fellow hunters or I you know,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I'm wanting to show this to my hunting buddies. But now,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: through crazy ways of the Internet, all of a sudden
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: ends up in the anti hunter's hands or someone else
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: who then you know, uses it for some horrible negative thing.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: And we just don't have that control like we used to.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: So I think the onus is on the individual now
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: to have that filter. Like you were talking about Janice
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Um to at least at least think about this stuff, right, Yeah, totally. Man.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I used that example of the like the little like
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: when was the last time you had like your little
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: flip photo album? You know, it's like everybody used to
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: have one of those that had like twenty or thirty
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: pictures in their truck. You meet somebody on a job
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: and then you can like be like, oh, you're a
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: hunter too, Oh at lunch, you know, let's you know,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: share photos. You know you you know you'd share, you know,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: trade them, and you know you flipped through the little book.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: But now it doesn't work, and so it was only
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: really shared. You know, you had that filter already in place.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: It's only shared with other hunters. Now, yeah, you put
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: it on wherever and it just it just blasts out
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: to the world. Right, Okay, So social media good or
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: bad for hunting? What do you think on us? Oh,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: he's bad for the world, it's bad for humankind. What
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: do you say, Dan, I'm gonna would Mark, would you
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: be in business if there was no such thing as
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: social media? Probably not. Nope, neither would I. And that's
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: where it's like I almost feel like the power is
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: somewhere else right now. So it's like hunting is existing
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: because there's somebody else out there who doesn't care enough
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: about it too, like let it not exist? Does that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: make sense? Is that? Does that make sense at all?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: You're saying like hunting is okay right now because people
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: just the people that wouldn't be okay, but it just
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: don't care enough to do something about it, right or
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: or or they might not be organized enough to quite
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: attack it yet. Right. I just feel like this is
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: they're like a battle cry. Right. I don't know why,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: but it's like right now, this whole under armor thing
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: God forgot about in a couple of weeks. No one's
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: talking about it anymore. It's it's water under the bridge,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: when in my opinion, I feel that is an attack
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: on us. They just they just organized and said, Okay,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: we don't want you to support this group of people anymore.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: So they organized and they they won a small battle. Right, So,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: what what have we done? What have we done? Well?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think. I don't think we've done
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: too much anything. No. I think it's not like it's
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: not a new thing though, you know. I mean this
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: was one instance related to like hunting a visual like
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: a a personality or something. But I mean probably every
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: month or every week somewhere across the country there's some
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: kind of anti hunting initiative, whether it be trying to
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: ban the use of dogs for mountain hunting in California,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: or trying to ban the use of baiting for bears
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: in Maine, or trying to that National Deer Alliance article.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: You know, they were coming out with Staten Island not
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: allowing I think it was Staten Island or was it
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: Long Island not not allowing hunting so they captured the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: deer and sterilized them instead. Blows my mind. Yeah, there
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: there there's a lot of these things going on, and
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: I I think, you know, this has been going on
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: for a long time, right and we haven't lost our
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: problege to hunt. But but I think what we see
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: is like there's this small minority right hand, anti hunters
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: are a very small minority, but they're loud and they're
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: passionate about something. And then you've got the hunting community
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that's a small minority and we're passionate. But the difference
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: is this we as hunters, we're passionate about our own activity,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Like we're passionate about what we do, so we put
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: most of our time and energy and passion into doing
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: that thing. Then you've got the anti hunters. They're not
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: passionate about doing something they love. They're just passionate about
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: stopping us from doing our things. So their whole passion,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: their time, that energy goes into the action of stopping
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: what we're doing. UM. So I think that's why we
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: see like they're taking actionable steps, maybe more often than
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: the hunting community does sometimes at defending that. Um. But
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: to your point in I mean, we do need to
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: be ever vigilant. We do need to be you know,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: getting involved when we can, and as individuals, I'll keep
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: preaching it. We also need to our own individual part
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: two to portray a positive representation of all this stuff
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: and then get involved with organizations that are supporting hunters
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: and give our time and energy and money to do
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: all those different things. Um. Because I don't think this
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: is gonna stop right. I mean, we had the Beaumar
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: thing recently, we had cecil line last summer, we had
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: you know, the Melissa Bachman with a deadline, and we
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: had such and such person with another African animal and
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: there's always it seems like it's just becoming a trend
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what's next. But I don't know.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know where this all goes. But we need
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: to probably do a better job preemptively preparing for it.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: I would think, how do you do that? That's the question.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you guys have any bradies? But actually,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: before we move on to those next thoughts, we need
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: to take a quick break to thank camel fire dot
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: com for sponsoring today's podcast episode. And camel fire dot
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: com is a daily deal website for hunters that offers
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: midtime huge discounts on great hunting gear, including very often
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: some great deals on sick of gear, which my friends
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: and I have taken advantage of in the past, which
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: is pretty nice. But interestingly enough, in my previous job
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: before going full time with ware and Hunt, I actually
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: got to know the founder of camel Fire just as
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: he was starting this business, as they were actually using
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: some of the online marketing tools that my company had created.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: So that said, I recently reconnected with camel Fire founder
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Kendle Card to hear just a bit about what was
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: like launching a company like this From scratch. Man, it
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: was like everything was against us to get Camel Fire
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: off the ground. And even at one point we threw
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: in the towel and you know, are my wife encouraged
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: me to kind of rekindle the website, you know, as
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: it was almost done, and like, okay, fine, we're gonna
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: give it one more chay and and it was so
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we we launched it, and uh,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: it was you know, it was like, man, I can't
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: believe it took us that long just to get to
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: this point. And it was still wasn't perfect. I mean,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: that's that's one thing that I kind of learned about
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: about business, and it's just like you wait for something
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: to be perfect, it's never gonna happen ever, Right, So
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: it was it was kind of a kind of a
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: you know, it was a whirlwind of struggle and conflict
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: and overcoming on a ton of things and then finally
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: just having enough grid to put it together and launch it.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: And so Campbellfire was a you know, it was a
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: pretty pretty humble beginning right in March basement. And uh
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: and from there we've you know, we've obviously grown. It's
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: been almost eight years. Wow, what did that feel like
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: that moment after all that adversity, when you finally you know,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: turn it on and sent it out into the world.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: What was that moment like for you? Well, the two
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: things it was. It was you know, thrilling and scary
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: all at one time. It's like, I'm psyched we finally
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: got this thing up. And then it's like, okay, people
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: can start buying stuff now. I can definitely relate to
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: that kind of shock of your thing actually launching and
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: try and wrap your head around that. And yes, you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: can start buying stuff now. And if you'd like to
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: check out some of the great deals that camel Fire
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: has going on, you can visit camel fire dot com
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: and check back daily as their deals are changing out frequently.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: And with that said, let's get back to the show.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm cue passed. I don't know. Yeah,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: does any of this makes sense to you? No? I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: mean it all makes sense, you know. I think, like
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: I've said before, the conversation is as important as anything, um,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: you know, and just you know, I mean, Dan brings
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: up a good point. It's like what have we done?
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: You know, And it kind of took me a while
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: to you know, think about that. But I do feel that,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: you know, Rocky Mount Volk Foundation, you know, they've got
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: there haunting his conservation message that they're trying to push.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it is what it is. It's good,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: like all those facts are great and whatever. Do I
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: feel like it's maybe sometimes it's just like we're patting
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: ourselves on the back because when they put it out
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: on their Instagram, who sees that besides hunters, right, very true,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: it's like great, good job Mark, good job man. You know.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: It's almost like we need a message, not it's like
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: we need to form a voice, and it's it's all right,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: like what you said. You know, the Rocky Mountain Elk
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Foundation is doing all these great things, but they're not
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: telling that to the people who don't like us. The
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: hunting community needs a PR agency that talks to the
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: rest of the world. That's that's what we really need.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: We need. We need some PR help and interesting. I
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this, Yannis, given your connections
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: back to Colorado, but I know Colorado has actually been
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's their fishing gaming agency or
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: who's funding this, but they've done like an advertising campaign
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: promoting the positive benefits of hunting and hunting dollars and
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: conservation and stuff to help the whole recreational public. Have
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: you seen anything about that? Yeah, you mean like the
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: like have you hugged hunter lately? Yes? Yes, that's pretty
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: cool idea, the very very man and like I think
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: that came out right and now I was leaving Colorado
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and um, yeah, you'd see just posters pinned up where
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: there's like the mountain biker with his bike in one
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: hands in the midstream like hugging the fly fisherman, you know,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know had the message right there. It's
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: like that's awesome. You know that message needs to be
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: spread throughout the nation for every state. Yeah. There, there's
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: just feel like the rural areas it happens a lot more. Um.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: You know, we have a good friend Kevin Murphy down
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: there in Kentucky. We've done a couple of episodes of
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: him now and he's just the hunting list, fishing list
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: fool you've ever met. Man. The guy just gets after it.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: And at the same time he's just so involved with
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: his community and such a positive force in his community
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: that anybody that's relate, you know, remotely, you know, affected
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: by what he does is probably maybe not pro hunting,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: but like like on the plus side of hunting, you know,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: they're not anti. They're like, even if they're not hunters,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: they're probably not going to vote against it or or
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: or speak badly. I love it because of what this
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: guy does, you know, in his community, and um, how
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: much he's involved and he's you know, taking kids out
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: hunting and just being involved in just like voting access,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: you know, putting a new voting access. And he's there
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: and so while he's there, he's talking about how like, yeah, man,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: I'm doing this for everybody. I'm you know personally, I'm
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: gonna use it to maybe shoot a couple of ducks
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: as I float down this river, or catch a couple
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: of brim or whatever it might be. But you know,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: he has a just by being in himself and what
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: he does in his small little community in Kentucky, Like,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: he has a huge positive impact. And I think it
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: happens a lot. In those kind of places where it's
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: not happening, it's much harder to have that impact. And
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: that voice heard is like in metro Chicago. You know,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: it's very hard. Um, but and I don't know how
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: to beat that because it's like I'm not really like
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: making you know, monthly trips there to give away venison
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: to people and speak on behalf of hunting, you know.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, I don't. Like it's in the city where
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: I see like a lot of those problems because it's
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: just like they have no contact with you know, what
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, and it's just all out of context.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: And when it's out of context, it's just hard to
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: make sense of it. Oh yeah, I mean people and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: these urban centers are so disconnected from anything. I mean,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: firearms is a great example too. I mean they have
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: no contact again exactly, you said, they have no context
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: for a positive use or reason for having firearms. So
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: of course they have these what I think are misconceptions
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: in many cases, but they have these beliefs or perceptions.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: And the same thing with hunting when you have no
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: contact with it, when you have no context for it,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: it's pretty understandable why maybe these people when they see
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: something pop up on social media or whatever, they jump
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: to this like, oh my gosh, it's horrible. Um, and
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: that's a big thing, Like we're gonna be continuing to
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: deal with as more and more people move to these places,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: more and more people spend more time in the computers
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: and less time outside. More and more people's only you know,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: the idea of what a wild animal is is what
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: they see in the Discovery Channel or what they see
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: in a Disney movie. Um, I think there's like, yeah,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: there's very real challenges ahead of us down the road,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: and I think what you said, you honest maybe is
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: one of the best things we can do, which is
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: just simply like everything, but one of us just needs
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: to know that we are We could be that one interaction,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: We could be that one person. And if we all
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: think about that more and make sure that anyone that
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: interacts with us, hopefully anyone that interacts with us enough,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: we'll have a positive you know, vibe or feeling or
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: perspective on what we do as hunters. You know, if
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: there can be what there's twelve million deer hunters out
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: there or something, if we could all be like Kevin Murphy,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: that probably could make a pretty big impact. But I
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: worry you affect ten people and all of a sudden
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: jumps to a hundred million, and then you're talking about
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you know, a third of our population. That's mega. I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: guess first final final thoughts on this whole deal with
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: the media with non hunting perspectives. I mean, I don't know,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: is there any other action item that you think we
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: should be thinking about, or any final thoughts on this
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: whole deal that you know we should keep in mind,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: because I think this is something that we should all
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: probably try to keep in the back of our minds
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: throughout hunting season, especially during hunting season, when you know,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to share what we're doing, or talk about
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: what we're doing, or demonstrate. You know, this is the
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: time that stuff is getting out there. So what would
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: you want people to be thinking about. Yeah, it's funny, man,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: because we're gonna talk a little bit about, you know,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: growing up hunting white tails in the Midwest, and we
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: can do that another time. But I still remember, like
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: when we used to kill deer in Wisconsin and then
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: drive back to Kalamazoo, Michigan. We had to go right
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: through Chicago. A lot of times we drive right through
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: downtown and we'd have three or four or five years
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: strapped to the hood and then we had one of
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: those like little trailer hitch not to the hood. I'm sorry,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: but to the roof of like a it was like
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: a Chevy Blazer, and we had one of those like
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: hitch kind of rack deals that we ran for a while,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: and you know, we got all kinds of looks. But
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: it's like nobody ever was like going to scratch our
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: you know, car pop our tires for it. But it's
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: like these days, I just don't know if you could
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: do that. You know. It's kind of like back then,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: even when we were you know, when I was a kid,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: and I guess I might be a little bit older
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: than you, but like there was a time when there's
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: just so many more hunters, you know, not not when
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: everybody was a hunter, but everybody knew a hunter, you know.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: And and that's changed a lot to where if you
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: you know, drove through Chicago now with that deer on
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: your you know, the top of your truck, it's just
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: like you're gonna be looked at as being disrespectful. But
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: I mean to your point about what we can do now, man,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: I think that the easiest way, what good I don't
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: know if it's the easiest. It actually takes some effort.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: But like venison diplomacy, as Steve says, it. It's like
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: I do it here all the time in the office
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: because we have a lot of people that work here
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: that are are maybe not even associated with meat eater
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: or just like very remotely. But when we come back
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: from a trip, like we just came back with a moose,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got hundreds of pounds of meat. You know. Uh,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: none of these people were there to not none of them.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Some of them were there to help me butcher on Sunday,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: but like for the most part is meeting three other
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: four other guys. You know, we butchered for six hours.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: But I make sure that we had like a lot
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: like one pound packages the burger and like one pound
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: packages the roasts and you know, stuff you can cut
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: up for steaks, and so that everybody here in the
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: office is gonna get like their three or four packages.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: And like everybody is so stoked on that, and they're
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: like there's just no possible way that they're at home
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: eating that thing or walking home with those chunks and
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: meat having like negative feelings about hunting at that point,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: you know. Um, And just to backtrack a little bit,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: we're always a friend of mine, Um says. It's a
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: lot we're hunting. The hunting community has to answer to
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: the lowest common denominator a lot of times. And I'm
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: not saying that any of these people that got busted
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: or that got blown up in the media are like
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: the lowest common denominator, but that, you know, there's just
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: like those bad apples that like, that's who gets portrayed
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: as who hunters are when we all know who we are,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: you know, but that's who gets chosen by everybody else
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: to represent who we are. And so um, I don't
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: know how to like exactly counter that except that just
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: you know, speak well, you know, on behalf of all
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: of us when you are out there talking to down hunters,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: and don't be defensive, because I don't being defensive doesn't
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: get us anywhere. We should use the same advice that
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: we use for you know, getting to do stuff and
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: making peace with our spouses as we do with people
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: that are not on hunters, you know, And just like
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to be exactly right. You
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: don't have to like win the argument. You just want
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: them to walk away going you know what hunt is
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: probably okay, you know, but yeah, I don't know. I
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: think the venice and diplomacy thing is huge, you know.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: Um and just uh, I think knowing like knowing our animals, uh,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: knowing the biology of our animals. UM. I was in
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: a camp not long ago that we just happen to
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: be staying at this church camp and there's other folks
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: staying there at the same time as we were. We
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: were there turkey hunting turkey on the adjacent property. We
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: just happened to be staying there, and like these people
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: were like, you know, they're like, okay, they weren't like
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: voicing their negative thoughts on hunting, but you can tell
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: there was a little bit of tension when like we
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: were there and we're like, yeah, we're here hunting. You know.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like they would started asking us like all
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: these like you know, interesting questions about what we're gonna
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: be doing and what we're doing. It's like, oh, that's cool.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: But they had kids there, So like the next day
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: we're coming at eleven am with a dead turkey over
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: our shoulder and the kids come running over and we're
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: looking at the turkey checking it out, and there's like
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: nothing more interesting like than a dead wild turkey when
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: you've never encountered something like that. It's just like the
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: colors are unbelievable. There's like all these different interesting parts
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: and if you, as a hunter can speak to all
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: that off and be like, yeah, this is why this
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: bird is so cool and this is why I love it,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: and yes, I go and kill it, but this is
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: you know, and just explain yourself. All of a sudden,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: like it was like the kids were there, and then
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: ten minutes later, like the parents were there, and then
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: like the grandparents are there, and all of a sudden,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: everybody's like, well man, you think you might cook up
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: some of that later, you know, And it's like I
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: feel like it made a difference, you know, like all
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: the kids got to take home some feathers, and uh,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: you know, I just feel like knowing our animals as
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: as more than just you know, the big box, you
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: know with the big antlers that goes along, that goes along,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: so that I think are in our context. Because again
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: it's like between you and I I know that you
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: know that your hunt is way more than just your trail.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: Camp pis of you know, whatever you've named him, Mr
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Houdini or whatever. I know that, but like someone else
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: that looks at that from the outside. With out that context,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: they just see like, well man, all he's into is
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: these pictures, and I think all he's talking about are
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: those antlers, right right, So, um, yeah, I think just
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: giving him the whole story, you know, it goes a
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: long way for sure. I think that's you know, my
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: one big takeaway or big kind of I don't know,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: final thought on all this is just to that point.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: It's look at every one of those interactions with someone
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: as an opportunity to provide that positive context, to provide
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: that positive example. And if you can do that so
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: many times, that can make a big difference. And um,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: all those things you mentioned, sharing venison, knowing about what
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: you're what you're pursuing, and being able to communicate that
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: that stuff all helps so much. So I'm definitely you know,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: I'm always trying to keep this stuff in mind when
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: it comes to in person interactions or social media posts
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. And I definitely think
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: that hopefully if we all everyone listening and all of
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: us can do that this season and you know, in
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: the future, that that might make a little bit of difference,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: a little bit of positive difference. So yeah, both of
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: us are doing it right, and maybe aren't. You know,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: maybe most of us just aren't actually putting our voice
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: out there. You know. It's it's just like, don't let
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: the bad apple be your voice, or don't let the
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: lowest common denominator be your voice. Yeah for sure. So
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: speaking of of sharing experiences of my last question for you,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: that's the last thing I'm curious about. How's the how
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: have the trips been going so far this season? How's
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: the hunting season? Looking for the meteor crew? No, they didn't,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: great man. We had a super fun archery deer hunt
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: in Nevada to kick the season off. Um, let me
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: see what do we do next. I was actually out
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: for a Prince of Wales Island black Tell deer hunt
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: because I had moniscus surgery, which I gotta say, Man,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: if anybody out there is like thinking about doing it
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: and you've got like some pain or some discomfort and
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: they're kind of saying, yeah, go ahead and do it,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: and then we're about the art of ritis later, I
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: highly recommended because I literally wasn't even off my leg
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: for a day and and a week later I went
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: on a moose hunt for ten days pack moose Hike
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: Ground toast six hiked up and down mountains and it's like,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: I'm just so happy I got that done. Uh, yeah,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. It was amazing what you know, what the
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: medical technology does these days. But yeah, we just did
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: a moose hunt in the Alaska Range. Um. My dad
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: was on the show and uh he was lucky enough
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: to uh call in a nice bowl on the second day. Um,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: it almost happened too fast. I mean we've all been
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: around enough to know that you take an easy one
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: when it comes. But sometimes for production purposes, it's just
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: like you just need a little more struggle before you
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: get the the resolve, you know, and reached the prize.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: Like day two in the morning, you're like, oh, what
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: do we get what we needed to, you know, to
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: make a show out of this? So um but no,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: that was great. Um, and we had, you know, just
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: great experiences. You know. Alaska has always has never lets
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: you down. Man. It's uh just such a cool, beautiful place.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: And so it's yet man has been there a lot,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: but it's still just so much less than down here
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: in the lower forty. Everybody's gotta go check it out. Um,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: let me see what's coming up. We got We're going
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: to hunt some grouse and Wyoming next week, and we're
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: we've got a muileor hunt in Colorado, which I'm real
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: excited about. Um, and then Elkin, Montana, and uh, that
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: kind of that kind of about rounds us out, So
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: let's go go go definitely between here in December sounds
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: like some fun trips, though, I gotta tell you, I'm
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: very jealous of how much time you guys get spend Alaska.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Every time I see you guys or anyone up there,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: I just keep saying, I gotta get there, I gotta
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: get there. And I finally decided, like this past month,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: like I'm just gonna stop saying someday and I'm just
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: gonna go. So next summer I'm trying to put together
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to get to do an Alaska hunting trip. Um.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how to pull it off. Nobody
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: that I know has the time or the ability to
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: go do it yet. So I'm working on figuring that out.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: But it just seems like something that you have to experience,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: and I'm I'm ready to get out there. So well,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: I guess well I have you be honest, I'm gonna
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: be selfish here. Given your experience up there, what would
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: you recommend for the first d I y Alaskan trip,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: um Man, it's tough on um. You know the moose thing.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: I've been on a couple of moose hunts right now,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a great haunt. It's interesting that animals
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: are way cool, but it's it's definitely like a very
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: it's a pretty sedentary I mean, I know there's hunters
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: a dude chase their moose and and kill him that way,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: but most people recommend sitting calling is it's a pretty
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: sedentary hunt. Even if you flow the river, you know
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: you're you're gonna end up probably shooting moose right on
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: the bank or close to it. Um. And So I
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: don't know if that is on your bucket list, you
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: can do it. But like to me, Um, I've been
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: on a few cariboo boo haunts. This is the first.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: I got to kill cariboo last week, which is my
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: first one, which is way cool. But to go and see,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: like go to a place where there is the big
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: numbers of caribou, where you actually get to see like
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: just the massive migrations. Um, it's a special thing, because
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: you don't really get that down here in the lower
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: forty eight and it's in like no matter how many
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: times you see it on Discovery Channel, when you see it,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: you know firsthand, and you get to watch a couple
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: of hundred or maybe a thousand animals you know, go
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: by you in one day, it's just magical. You know.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: That was actually we're seeing I were talking about and
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: I was saying, you know what this that would be
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: one thing that you could go and see and even
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: if you didn't pull the trigger or fire and arrow,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: just to see that massive animals moving across the landscape.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: A lot of those animals they have never ever seen
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: a human in their lives, you know, go in front
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: of you. Um, it's pretty special. And to me, I
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: feel like the carib just kind of really a symbol
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: of that the North Country you know, like you really
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: you don't you know, you got moves down here. We've
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: got grizzly bears down here in the lower forty eight, um,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: black bears, We have deer like you. We don't have caribou.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: You know. That's like it's definitely a North Country animal. UM.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: And I think that like if you get to the
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: right place. You are almost guaranteed to like to get
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: into them to probably fill your tag um. There's usually
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: lots of opportunities and most I think, you know, get
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of references and making sure you've got the
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: right out there that's gonna work hard to get you
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: or the right transporter. If you're gonna go do d
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: I Y that they're gonna work hard to get you
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: into the right place. If they don't get you in
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: the right place on the first drop, you know, they'll
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: maybe movie of mid hunt to get you out ahead
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: of them, you know. The movement of the of the caribou.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of the pilots we've talked to you,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: they're just like they keep telling guys. It's like, you
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: know what, just tell yourself, don't shoot on the first day.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: Watch the animals. Look at what caribou. Figure out what
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: cariboo look like. Because to all of us that you know,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: especially once they grew up in the Midwest, just like
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: looking at white tails all the time, it doesn't matter
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: if you look at a yearling caribou, you're like, oh
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: my god, look at all those antlers. I'm shooting. That's
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: what you see. One that's four or five years old. Um,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: And they're just saying how often it happens where guys
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: kill like the second day they're there because they can't
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: shoot the day they land, so the next day, you know,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: they shoot like the first kind of big one they see.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: And then also they gotta get flown out because their
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: meats going out, and you're back at them. You're back
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: on the tarmac and you're like, whoa hold on? That
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: was my whole Alaska trip. Like I just went up
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: there and it's over in like seventy two hours. And
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: so with a caribou hunt, you on my just had
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: to force yourself just to go up there and take
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: it slow, you know, look and just watch them enjoy
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: it um and try to you know, not pull the
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: trigger maybe until the third or even fourth day if
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: you can manage. Um. But anyways, yeah, that would that
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: would be my I think first pick. If I had
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: to just go back in time and say, all right,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go do one Alaskan animal, I probably
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: do cariboo, and more just for the overall total experience
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: than just like just because it's a cool you know
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: animal itself. But you just you to go get a cariboo,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: You're just you're gonna get flown into some unbelievable country,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: you know, And they do have hunts that you can
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: do when you don't fly. You know, you could go
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: a TV or even hike in. I know, if you
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: draw some of the permits on the Key nappendance, those
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: places you can just hike in when you gotta draw
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: that permit. But um, I don't know. I think I
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: would just wait an extra year and save the money
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: to get flown in to just you know, get away
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: from you know what pressure there might be off the
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: road system in Alaska. Man, that's good advice. I'm getting
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: getting excited just talking about it. Cariboo. Cariboo is definitely
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: one of those species that is very high on my
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: list of just a dream animal to get to know
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: and to see out there. And it sounds like you said,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: like it's a reasonable like you can go into that
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: type of hunt doing it yourself with a reasonable expectation
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: being able to pull it off. And you know, like
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like with a moose hunt, when you're deep
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: in there and with your a friend or you know,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: that seems pretty intimidating when you get that huge of
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: an animal that deep in the back country and figuring
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: all that out. But the cariboo seems like if you're
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: get in the right place, it seems like it's a
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: relatively opportunity rich type experience and it's not quite as
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: daunting as as dealing with that ginormous moose carcass on
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: the ground. You can kind of kind of approach a
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: little bit easier. So, man, maybe one year from now
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: we'll be talking about my caribou hunt, I hope so,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: and hopefully a lot of fly fishing too, So I'm
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: excited about it. So, yes, we gotta let you go.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: We've been talking area off here. But before we do,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: what where should people go online to see what you've
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: got going on with meat Eater and your hunt to
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: Eat shirts? Where can we get those? Meat Eater is
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: the meat Eater? Um? If you don't have a Sportsman channel.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: We aired eight on Thursdays, and right now we're in
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: a fresh season and so this Thursday, we've got a
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: Montana Bear episode coming up. It would be the twenty second,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: which would probably be this podcast by air later than that,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: I guess. But um, anyways, Thursday nights at eight, UM,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: maybe it's eight thirty Eastern. But if you don't have
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: Sportsman Channel, you can go to um meat Eater dot
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: vh X dot tv and immediately is the episode airs.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: You can buy all episodes for and uh, you know,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: some people look at it as like a lot of money,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: but I figured for twenty two minutes of good TV
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: that three bucks as well worth it. You don't you
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: have it forever, So that's a way to get around,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to you know, have uh,
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: you know, pay for the whole cable package and then
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: Hunt to eat if you want to go out our
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: T shirts And my brother and I got going it's
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: a hunt to eat dot com and that's UM t
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: O not the numeral two. So h U N T
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: t O e A T dot com. And uh, I
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: think we've got roughly twenty states are so represented, and
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: we have some state specific shirts um that you know,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: if you want to you know, rep your home boundaries
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: you can. And then we've got another half dozen shirts
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: that are non states specific that uh, you know, cover
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: a variety of animals and just you know, some different designs,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: some stuff that uh, like I said, you can't find
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: it that at the the big retailers. So, um yeah,
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: that's uh, that's everything awesome. Well, I'm loving my Montana
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: hunting shirt. It's been on been on a good number
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: of trips to the mountains already, so I definitely can
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: it can endorse what you guys are doing. Good stuff,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: and you've got kind of like a Kickstarter type deal
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: going to write for getting people news. Actually gonna run
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: um again, I don't know what when you're playing on
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: air in this but through the end of September, we're
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: running basically like our own version of Kickstarter. We're calling
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: it hunt Starter. And because we get just a lot
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: of requests for people wanting, you know, in Oklahoma shut
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: in a Tennessee shirt, and um, it's just hard. It
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: just takes a lot of capital, you know to basically
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: come out, you know and make another thirty s thirty designs,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: so we cover every state in the nation. Um, so
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: we decided to do this hunt Starter campaign. We're basically
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: we saw most of our shirts were twenty five bucks,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: but for the hunts our campaign, you can go online
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: and uh to our website and basically pre order your
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: state shirt for fifteen bucks and if we reach a
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: hundred pre orders for let's just say Oklahoma, then at
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: the end of the month, we're gonna basically make an
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma shirt and everybody gets a shirt for fifteen bucks
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: versus the normal. If if the anybody that orders to
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: say a state that doesn't make it to a hundred
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: orders by that time, um, we're basically just gonna send
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: them a new we're working on, like a new Hunt
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: to Eat logo T shirt. It's gonna be way cool
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: and you're kind of gonna get that as a Constellation Pride.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: So either way, you end up getting a Hunt to
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: Eat T shirt for fifteen bucks instead of and hopefully
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: we've got a couple of states that are getting there.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: We're hoping that, you know, with a with a little
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: extra push here at the end of the month, we'll
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: get a couple of states to actually make it to
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: a hundred and we'll do uh, we'll do a few
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: new state designs. So yeah, that's the Hunt to Eat
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: hunt Starter campaign. Sweet. Well, we'll have this episode out
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: before the end of September, so people have time to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: to get on that. Very cool, awesome, be honest, well, man,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate taking time to do this and chat definitely
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: through some of these. You know, sometimes not so much
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: fun topics to talk about, especially during hunting season. I'd
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: rather talk about animals and adventures and everything, but one
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: of those things is probably good to to have on
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: the mind and chat through. So thanks for sharing your
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: thoughts and perspectives on all of us. Yeah, man, no problem. Um,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: I hope I didn't raffle too many feathers. And if
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: I know, you guys just need to suck it up
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: and you know, think about it a little bit. But yeah,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: I do appreciate you having me on, and uh it's
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: I'm always honored when I get to be uh good
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: to be a guest on a podcast. Um, I get
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: us talk a little bit more than normally do on
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: on our podcast. But I'll leave you with one little
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: thing because I know you've been talking about possibly making
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: a move out west. Last night, I got woken up
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. I couldn't really tell
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: what it was it was keeping me awake, but finally
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: I just like got out of bed. I was like,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: all right, I must have to go p or something,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: you know. So I got out of bed and walked
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: towards the window that was cracked open, and all of
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: a sudden, I here. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me,
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: you know. So there's a bowl outside raising ruckets. I
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: go out onto my deck to go take a leak
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: onto the moonlight ensure enough, there's two bowls in about
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: twenty cows, like I don't know, probably three hundred yards
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: four hundred yards off my off my deck, just you know,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: going balls to the wall. And I was like, yep,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: it's all about right here. I gotta say I hate
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: you just a little bit right now. You're honest that
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: you come and stay anytime, careful what you offer because
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: I might be out there before you know it. Well,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: thank you, honest and good luft the rest of the season. Yeah, man,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk to him are And there you go.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: Another episode in the books. And I hope you enjoyed
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: this one. And then I gave you a little food
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: for thought as we enter the two thousand six hunting season.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: That said, before we wrap this one up, we need
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: to thank our partners who helped make this podcast possible.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Big thank you too. Sick of gear, Redneck Blinds Hunter,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: a maps, Yetie Cooler's Ozonics Carbon Express Mavien Optics, and
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: the White Tail Institute of North America. Thank you so
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: much for supporting those companies who support us. It really
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: does make all the difference in the world. And I
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: actually just got an email from one of these companies
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: saying that they got emails from some of you guys
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: saying how much you appreciate that, how much you appreciate
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: them helping make the White Hurt podcast possible. And man,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: that is the coolest thing. I can't tell you how
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: much I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Now, with
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: all that said, speaking of thanks, thank you all for
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: tuning in today. Best of luck in the woods, and
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: until next time, stay white eared to hunt.