Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 27: Filmmaker, Photographer, and Artist Malik Martin

Transcript

My Favorite Things Episode 27: Filmmaker, Photographer, and Artist Malik Martin · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Malik Martin, thanks for being here.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, good.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is a good afternoon with a great friend,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm glad to be able to talk about the past,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: the present, and the future with you, man.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to tell people a little bit about who you are in your current iteration
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: as a human being?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, currently I am moonlighting as a film director.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually am one, you know, just finished my latest film, Outside Ain't Free.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a storyteller.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I want to tell stories is because as a black man,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: generally, we haven't had the opportunity to say what happens to us, how we felt.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or what's happening around us.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And to be able to hold that position is like a position of power,
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: but not to abuse it, but to really use it to memorialize those around me.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think through story is how we immortalize people.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say that,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that as long as someone has a story to tell about somebody,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: technically a piece of them lives on them.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all I try to do is to keep the stories about people fresh
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: in people's minds or hopefully make you laugh,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes make you cry, make you think.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's just my duty as a storyteller is to highlight the people around me
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: whose voices go unheard.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we'll probably get into your career a little bit through this list.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So as you know, this podcast is called My Favorite Thing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you have sent me a list of five of your favorite things.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, I was just talking to my son about this last night, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: How old are you when the Ninja Turtles come into your life and
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: through what lens did they come in?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say I was like, man.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Three or four, like I was a child child in the 80s, early 90s.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say it came through initially with toys and then,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know, came to TV show and then Ninja Turtle video games.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it was kind of my first introduction to a fantasy world, you know?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cause when you really think about the Ninja Turtles, those fuckers would be terrifying.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: A six foot mutated fucking turtle that knows karate that talks English and yeah, like what?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: If one of those things like stop the robbery, I'd be like, ah, it's four of y'all.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: What the fuck you mean?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cowabunga.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: These motherfuckers got slang.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: They have weapons as if their body isn't a fucking bioweapon itself, you know?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're fighting other mutated fucking creatures, and their dad is a mouse.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's great.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, as is the case with a lot of that stuff when we were kids now that you think
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: about it, huh?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think you latched onto them specifically as a 3-, 4-, 5-year-old?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were so like free flowy.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like they really didn't have any parameters outside of living in the sewer.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anything they wanted to do, they did it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: They helped people because they wanted to, not because they had to.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like some kind of great calling like Spider-Man
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: where like you watch somebody you love get brutally murdered and shit like Batman.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: They just did it because they wanted to.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then like, I don't know what it was.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: The pizza that they ate looked a million times better
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: than any fucking pizza I've ever touched in my life.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: The cheese pools were so epic in every shot.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, holy shit.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was just like, I don't know, they knew karate.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: That was cool,
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: because growing up in an era of like Power Rangers,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: if the Power Rangers had to fight the Ninja Turtles,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I put my money on the Ninja Turtles.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Shots fired, I guess, huh?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Without the Megazord and all that power-up shit, you know what
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: But they got their powers through radioactive exposure, correct?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was like a little tube of radioactivity and it cracked and they ate it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Were they forever teenagers is my question now that I wonder.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: How the fuck we know they were 13, 14, 15?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: They got hoverboards and shit.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point because you think about the length of the title as far as word of mouth.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: They could have just lopped off Teenage.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: But at some point in a board meeting, somebody was like, no, I think we're good.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think we'll go Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we'll go with this eight-syllable name for
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: this thing, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a grown man Ninja Turtle would probably be even more terrifying.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because if they're that strong and agile as teenagers,
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: they haven't even reached their full potential of...
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would say danger, because in real society, those things would be on the hit list.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you see one of these, please call the FBI.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do not approach they know karate.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: One has a stick, one has a fucking sword.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: How did he get the sword?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: We never know.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: The little pointy things.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Nunchucks.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: They made nunchucks look way cooler than what they are.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you know how to use them, they're cool, right?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't, they're just extremely dangerous.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: To everybody.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, including yourself.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you kind of recall how old you were when you realized they were all named
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: after Renaissance artists?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that's now, actually.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that just clicking for you now?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing, because I was
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: quite old myself, and I was like,
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: oh, yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Donatello, Raphael, Leonardo, yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, okay.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what the fuck is that about, you know?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't know.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would say you're the Ninja Turtles expert here, but I'm not sure why that is.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they broke into an art museum after they shortly mutated.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it was.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or Master Splinter might have been a rat in an art museum.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Huh.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Huh.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you're like three, four, five, three or four years old.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are you living in Memphis at this point?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Freshly moved to Salt Lake City.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: me and my,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: it wasn't,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: my grandma moved me to Salt Lake,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: but we was out there with like a couple aunts and uncles and I had like a cousin
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: that I'm Like eight months older then.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we were able to come up together.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: when you have like a brother or like a close cousin or relative,
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: whatever,
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: whatever, like weird, quirky shit you're into, you're both are really into it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like, it's easy for all the adults to be like, well, what do they want?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Shit, I don't know.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I guess get a Ninja Turtle, they'll be fine.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, I'm sure
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: they'll like that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are you still, do you still have a relationship with that cousin?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's still my closest cousin.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: When I went to Japan a couple years ago,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the Pokemon store and the Nintendo store and just was able
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: to send him very nerdy, niche stuff that I knew he would appreciate.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of like one of the coolest moments for me to be able to pour
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: into my family and share some of my experiences.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of my life and career, I've just been...
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, on an island,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: just like,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the fuck Malik do,
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: but he don't ask me for money and everybody's happy.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: but to be like,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: cousin, you know, go to the Pokemon store and be like, look where I'm at.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm at the fucking Poke Center and like, you know, which one would you want?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or, uh,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: we used to play Mario and Luigi and,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: um, He was taller than me, so he was Luigi and I was Mario.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So to be able to see him like a Luigi plush from the Nintendo store,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: it just, you know, full circle moment.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: It made me feel like a good cousin, you know what I mean?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like my brother and I have grown up to be vastly different people,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: but we still connect through Star Wars.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really into He-Man for like several years, so he just like gets me Skeletor stuff now.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I got him a Darth Vader phone.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it works off of eBay.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, yeah, you need this in your office.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like that shared nostalgia that you can still have that commonality.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Number two on your list is Terminator,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: which I just rewatched this two, three years ago, and what a great movie.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You were saying before we hit record that you were probably a little young to be watching this.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Can you place yourself time-wise, how old you were, where you were when you saw this?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Man.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was in Utah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of half and half.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because we would be back and forth from Memphis.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was with my dad or whatever as a child,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I remember watching Predator 2 with Danny Glover.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And all my dad's friends was like, I would be like, what the fuck is that?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd be like, what the fuck
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: is that?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And all my dad was like,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: say it again, say it again.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so...
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to fantasy, like,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I remember Terminator 2 specifically,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: and I was in Utah with my uncles, and, like,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it was to see Arnold Schwarzenegger, like,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: jump off the fucking,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: in the beginning of the movie when he was on a motorcycle chasing John Connor and,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: like, the sparks and shit, like, I don't know.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was just always so...
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get scared as a kid.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Some kids be crying and be scary.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I always liked scary shit.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought I could beat up Chucky as a kid.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, man, he my size.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's coming here with that shit.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Terminator was just one of my biggest impacts and influences in a sci-fi world
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: that Felt like it could be real, you know?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I remember as a kid,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: like the part with the black family,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: and it was just weird because they were rich,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: and then like Sarah Connor is attacking them,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm like, damn, why the fuck she doing all this?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't understand the concept of, like, why is he breaking into his workplace?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why is he, like, destroying the Terminator arm and stuff, you know?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why did he blow himself up?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that was stupid as fuck.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, as an adult now, and especially with, like, Terminator was a documentary.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a sci-fi film, you know?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, like... Like,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I see they got,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: like, a little robot that's doing backflips and can run 30 miles an hour.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I've seen this before, and...
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm trying to be John Connor to the best of my ability right now.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anti-AI everything.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that movie is 40 years old.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting pretty close, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm almost 40 years old.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm standing there 40 years old.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's getting up there.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: It took them a while, but, you know, we didn't destroy enough Skynet in number two.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So here we are.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Catching up.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember having the reaction to,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: because Terminator 1, Schwarzenegger's character is the villain, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were you reacting to him at that time?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Were you recognizing that he was the villain?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: because he switches basically in Terminator 2 and becomes,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: you're like, oh, I guess we're on this guy's side now.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember making those?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how you were viewing it at the time?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think I had watched Terminator 1.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Back in my day, there wasn't no goddamn streaming service.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't see this shit or a motherfucker didn't have it on tape, it didn't exist.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I do remember, even in the second movie, through the first...
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: 30 minutes, he is a bad guy.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's some ambiguity of, like,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: the police officer is,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: like, supposed to be good and shit, but he's evil, just like real police.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember, like,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: the hallway scene in the mall and,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: like, I was a bad kid like John Connor and his friend and shit.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was that type of child.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, his kid being like, dude, somebody's fucking looking for you, a cop.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You need to get out of here.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, shit, we need to get out.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like in the hallway and he sees Arnold like with the fucking roses and a shotgun
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: and he's like crunching on the roses with his stiff boots.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just like, you know, come with me if you want to live.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, damn, why would I?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: You gonna trust him over the cop?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, oh, the cop is batshit crazy.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like the running,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: like that shit just sticks out in my mind,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know, when they're leaving the mall and like he was really running.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, God damn.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the actor who played the cop, he didn't do much after that, I don't think, did he?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was just like, Terminator 2 was kind of his apex of his career.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I got a Terminator 2 paycheck in the 90s, I probably wouldn't do much either.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Back in the old Hollywood, you know?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why the fuck?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's why people be like, Harry Potter ain't acting no more.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, bro, he's fucking Harry Potter.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why would he act?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's done all the acting he needs to do, brother.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's been in some stuff, but not as successful, I think.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real litmus test in that mall scene, though,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: to think about, like,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: who do you, like,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: how you interpret that as a teenager,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: because I was a bad teenager, too, and, like,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: most of my relationship with the police was,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: like, I don't want them to be around because it's bad news for me.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even as a kid,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I would have, you know, I was taught not to be distrustful of police.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, a cop smiling, asking questions, that wouldn't have been...
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm aware of this,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: for sure.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: When a cop came by the house, my grandma then would have been like, get the fuck out of here.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we wouldn't talk to those cops under any circumstances.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, that was always, like...
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: A thing for me was to be distrustful of the police.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: My grandma gave me the officer-friendly conversation early.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being in an elementary school in Utah,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: and cops come up there,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: and they're like, you know, we're your friend and all that shit.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one time, I was about seven years old.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was living in Salt Lake, and we stayed...
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: In these apartments that overlook this old grocery store called Reams,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: R-E-A-M-S.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they had like businesses on the side of the grocery store,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: but the apartment sat above them.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a group of white kids throwing like snowballs and ice at the windows
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: of this like small department store.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I had a.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we go in the house, we play the game or whatever.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And on my way home, I get stopped by the police.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, we got a call that you were throwing snowballs at the fucking business today.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I wasn't.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, yeah,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: the business call and was like,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, there was a kid out there in a purple crew neck who was doing it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, of course, you know, the black kid who actually like, I did a lot of shit.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: That day I didn't do it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like my first time of being stopped and profiled by the police
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: and having to like,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Talk my,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: to prove my, you're like innocent, you're guilty until you're proven innocent.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like one of the first times in my life that I had to defend myself
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: by myself as a child against a fucking grown up with piss poor information that,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: it's still like policing to this day is built on the same type of antithesis
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: of like stop and frisk or like presumption.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have to prove that you're innocent.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's something that just always stuck out to me.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, you know, Damn, all the other times that I have done shit, you never caught me.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like this time where I was really chilling, it was like I got shook down.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, damn, bro, like I should have just went in the house earlier, I guess.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, you know, there's nothing you can do in a situation.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a that's a whole different situation from where I grew up and where I was.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you still a Utah Jazz fan?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I never was.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you sent a shirt.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I had his card.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget this day.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Brian Russell, like, came out of the house.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, well, he pulled up.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, shit, it's Brian Russell.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you sign my card?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, yeah, I got you when I come back out, little man.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we outside playing and shit.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Couple hours later, Brian comes out.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yo, can you sign my card?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I never forget.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: This nigga looked me over down and got in the car and drove off.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, fuck the jazz, bro.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, fuck Brian Russell.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: true story,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: like a week later,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: he fucking loses the NBA Finals to Jordan when he, like, crossed him and shit.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, so, yeah, fuck Brian Russell.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you hear this, you bit...
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you would have signed my fucking card, you could have had an NBA championship,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: you bitch.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: How you do one thing is how you do everything.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you should have signed... You didn't tell me to go...
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I went and got the card and everything, bro.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like...
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: just being in Utah during the 90s was like,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think, maybe the best time to be in Utah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: The Mormons were still extremely racist towards black people,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: but the basketball was okay,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: The best basketball time to be there, for sure.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Society-wise, hmm.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who's to say?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like a heavy sci-fi theme going through most of your list here.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I guess this one's not particularly, but number three is Legend of Zelda.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are you still...
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: When are you encountering this game?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean...
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I played Breath of the Wild for the first time two years ago,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: and I am pretty stoked about the remake of the Ocarina of Time.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even play my regular Nintendo Switch unless I'm traveling,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: and I want to switch to just to play the Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time remake,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: because it's just like,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: that is the most ultimate form of nostalgia,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know, like, mainline it into my veins.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can remember playing Zelda on, like, regular Nintendo.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know which one it was, but I could never beat it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a kid, I was a smart kid.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: But when I think about it, like, I was really dumb.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: when you go back and play a video game that stumps you as a child,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: it's like, oh, man, you were just a dumb kid.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you couldn't beat it because you're a kid.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: You really didn't understand the concept of, like,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: A dungeon and progressing through it and unlocking keys and things of that nature,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like a game.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what it was?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's also...
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: My brother had to get me to the end of Zelda,
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: and then he would hand me the controller, and I could...
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: One out of four times actually beat it.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: But that was bad.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there was also this hive of knowledge that,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: at least when I was,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: during those years,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: somehow we were figuring this out without the internet,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: where it'd be like your friend would know somebody or their brother had beat
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: the game and they'd be like, oh no, you gotta do this.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So somehow that information was being transmitted and I'm not sure how that works anymore.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, back in the day they had a
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Nintendo Power Magazine.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Power Magazine, but you could also buy like a guide for the games.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because like the Ocarina of Time, you know, I was like first gen N64 kid.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I had Mario 64.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Banjo-Kazooie really was like the first video game I can say that I beat, you know, as a kid.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I remember the Ocarina of Time.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, that one stood out because I got stuck in the water temple for, like, three years.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that shit was, like, that stuff about, like, being a dumb kid.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, I would stop playing for a while, then go back to it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Stop playing for a while, go back to it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually, like,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: as I became a teenager,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, motherfucker, why didn't you ever walk that way?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, oh, I beat the whole thing.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, okay.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Legend of Zelda was like the most puzzling thing that I had to deal with as
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: a young man, you know, and I don't know.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think about fantasy worlds and why I love fantasy so much is probably
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: because like I had a fucked up childhood and being able to like a lot
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: of fantasy stuff is based on escapism, you know, like wake up, Link.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're in a whole new world and now you get to go on this adventure
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: and I could get lost in these places that could like replace
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: the actual graphic reality that I was exposed to, you know?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just always been a dreamer and being able to like create worlds and things
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: in my head or like,
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: when it comes to directing is because like as a younger person
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: before I really took up for myself,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know how you used to be like, man, I wish I would have said that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just like be able to put together a whole conversation of how it should have went.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of ended up being like how I learned how to put together a script
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: of like having conversations with myself about how stuff should have went.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's before I started cussing people ass out and like,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know, just telling them like it is to their face.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was a kid at one point in time,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: so I just have to forgive myself for any type of passivity that I ever had.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a French expression for that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It roughly translates to staircase wit, which is like you think of it.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I should have said to that guy like a few minutes later?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the actual French words for it, but yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a potent writing prompt as well.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I should have
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: said to that guy?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think as a kid you were making the connection,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: playing these games,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: realizing somebody dreamed up this whole world and made this video game?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think you were understanding that?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that was something that came clear to me at all.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a thing that existed.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it was just a thing that existed.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: The concept of creating a whole world is still kind of like,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Alluding to me a little bit, you know, when I think about Game of Thrones and like George R.R.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Martin and shit.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: not only did he create a fake world,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: this motherfucker has like 10,000 years of fake history that he made up.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: it was just like,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: because someone was talking about the rape in Game of Thrones and how like,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Why does that exist in a fake world with fake people that you still have to put
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: so much fucking rape in a world that doesn't exist?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: But not to harp on that and go down that rabbit hole, because that is another discussion.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But just what it takes to craft A whole world.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it an Earth?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are we in space?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like an Earth-adjacent kind of area?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can people have special powers here?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Does magic exist?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are there mythical animals afoot?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what does it take to be able to, like, what era is it set in?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you think of, like,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: the Skyrim and medieval times,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: and of course they got dragons and magic because it was back then, you know, like.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what does that look like if we were to have a metropolitan city
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: and people have magic and fucking dragons?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it just don't feel the same.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: But why doesn't it feel the same?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like, what is the rules of this universe?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can go into the Norse mythologies and all that shit.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: I never really got into Zeus and Hercules and all that.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I remember reading it as a kid, but I was just like, this is some bullshit.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is not the myth I am going to attach myself to.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: If I was Hercules cleaning out stables and shit, I'm strong.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why the fuck am I shoveling bullshit?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how exactly to phrase this question,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: but there's a kid who needs the escapism of being in the world of The Legend
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: of Zelda,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: but now you're this adult who's like,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I understand that, I understand the value of it, but it's still like...
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I could spend all my time creating one of those worlds.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because think about the amount of time George R.R.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Martin lives in his head in those worlds in order to be like,
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: oh, I've got to create these rules.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to make this believable.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: But why do you think that
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: is the way it works for you as well?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're not creating a science fiction script right now.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think, like, I don't know what George R.R.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Martin needed to take from that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think within, you know, he looks like a lame nerd who never got no bitches.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: maybe because he never had them type of interactions,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: he had to go create those worlds and stuff.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is he married?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know anything about him.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: He don't look like it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we might have to cut this out.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's like...
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Never know.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you never know.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I'm going to say.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, just to be like, you never know what they needed to escape from.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: What was the magnitude of the things that were, like, plaguing them in their childhood?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are they healing the inner child with these stories, you know?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, like,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: the fantasy worlds that I'm creating,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to, like, Bring horror to the hood.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a parody.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I'm working on like a hood zombie movie.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I ain't gonna tell you the name and stuff,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: but essentially the premise is like,
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: imagine a zombie outbreak across America and the only areas that,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know, withstand the first wave of outbreak is the housing projects.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have Big tall gates surrounding our buildings.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: We have bars on our window, bars on our doors.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So like the way where we live is already fortified.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if there was an outbreak to happen in America, who would initially survive?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: It would be the hood.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we got a lot of guns and drugs and shit.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: growing up,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: all the hood movies with horror,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: like Leprechaun in the Hood,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: is when the series devolved into like mediocrity and just like,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: it's just spoof, straight to video type shit.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like actually taken serious, you know?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you think about black horror now,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: it's like Jordan Peele and he's like, racism is scary.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah, I get it.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But like, why can't, There'd be like a Michael Myers in the hood.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't there be like, you know what I mean?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like the evil dead in the hood or any zombie fucking movie you think of.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why does the hood just get skipped over?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't know.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like when it comes to think about like bringing,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think, uh,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: a fantasy world of life is like,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: it's you thinking what should be out in the world and just hoping people take a part
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: in it, you know?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, uh,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I just think about how would I bring people into my world and what would it be
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: if I had to?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a super interesting script, actually.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be good.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's going to be good.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see where you go with that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds fun.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had to ask you this before we got on,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: but number four is Gundam Wing, which I had zero exposure to.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what is this?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you kind of describe what it is?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's from the future.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, hey.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hands split into colonies,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: and they make these fucking giant robots that you fight in,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: but really it's like child soldiers,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: and they have to defend and fight for their faction and their side.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was really drawn to Gundam because it was just like...
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: The sheer brutality of it as a kid, they cussed.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was like on Adult Swim.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not Adult Swim.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Toonami.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was on Toonami, but it would come on late at night.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, I don't know, super brutal.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it had cool fucking robots, you know.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: As I've gotten older,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: this is about child soldiers and like imperialism and terrorism
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: and all this other shit.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it's pretty heavy.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: But as a kid, just like, Big robot, cool.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And as an adult, because I do have PTSD and shit, I buy these Gundam kits.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a whole fucking place.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are you building them?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So these things come into... Legos aren't interesting to me.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're not hard.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: You just snap them together and...
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Once you put them together, like, so what?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: With all these Gundams,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: depending on the grade of them, you have to build each articulating piece.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, the foot is, like, 50 pieces.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: The leg is, like, 100 pieces.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And, yeah, it just takes a very, very long time.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And with my PTSD, like,
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: being able to pour myself into something that,
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: like, I can't think about anything but this and, like...
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: The instructions are in Japanese,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: so you just have to stare at the pictures long enough until it makes sense.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's way tougher than Legos.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can get into customization like sanding, painting.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Putting LED lights in them.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how much work are you willing to put into this piece, you know?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just, it's something.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing that through a kid, like,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know, when I was growing up, I couldn't afford these figurines and model kits.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: But now that I have adult money, like, that's what I do.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And when I went to, like, Japan, I went to, like, the fucking 100-foot...
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Statue that like lit up and moved and shit.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: it was just that,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the most healing inner child type of trip, you know what I mean?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: To be able to be full circle of like,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love this most of my life and to go to the epicenter of it,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: it just felt magical, you know?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was in a Gundam store and I had like,
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like a quarter million yen, like 250,000 yen on me.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yo, how much for the statue?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, you know, you can't buy the statue.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, run the price check, you know?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because the kid in me wants the fucking statue right now, you know?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: How are you going to get that home?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just have to move there.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to fly it home, of course.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to climb on the inside and...
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you just held up a figurine that's probably, what, eight inches tall?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so my questions are,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: how much did that cost,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: and then how many hours do you think it took you to put that together?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of the entry grades, so it's one of the easier models or whatever.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: This one probably cost like $10, $15.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, $10, $15, but like this one was probably like $200, and I haven't put it together yet.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: But this will probably take me like anywhere from
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: like 10, 20 hours or something.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: All the, they're in Japanese.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: They all come,
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: they come on these runners and you got to like clip out the piece,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: sand, and then put it all together.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Big nerd shit, you know what I mean?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Big nerd shit.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: How far along were you in your relationship with Tay before you were like, hey, I do this?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, when I moved out here with her, we
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: were together about
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: eight months.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right before I moved out here,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: it was like right before I moved was when Tura,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Jasmine, and Ocho got killed and Hillary Nelson died.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like in Memphis, super depressed.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I had got my first big check.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was in a commercial and I got paid $28,000 for one day.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest check I got at that time,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: and I remember when that motherfucker cleared,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: and I even, like,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: just looking at my bank account, I was, like,
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: checking my bank account, like, 10 times straight, like...
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can buy the statue.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I went and bought, like,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: two kits offline,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: and they take, like,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: fucking forever to ship to you,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: because especially they're coming from Japan,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: and I got them right before I moved out here,
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: and I remember her, like, she had an entrance, like, what is that, you know?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Her seeing me put it together was just like,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: holy shit, one, but also like, holy shit, this makes him happy.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like seeing him be able to do something that just takes him away from everything.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: It made her happy.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, yeah,
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can nerd out in front of her and don't have to worry about like being made fun of
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: or anything.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she accepts my nerdiness.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got some like really, really nice kids.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, uh, She likes when, like, I put the really nice ones together.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, you can... Like, I have one from Japan on the other side of the room.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's, like, on display in the living room.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you know it's nice if you gotta, like... You can put that over here.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, it doesn't have to be in the corner, you know.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is this, uh... Is some of this, like, meditation for people who don't want to meditate?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: It is a form of mental meditation.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um...
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a form of mental meditation because you are doing something,
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: if you can't think about anything else while you're doing it,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: that's the plus of it all because it's just like a certain amount of freedom,
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know what I mean?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like being able to just be,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: without like the,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: because sometimes meditation is so serious,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: especially when you get with like the super guru.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, guys, we're
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: going to like, Get the sound bowls and incense and all that shit.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I can just sit here and just like cut out shit and sand it down.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Try to put it together.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck, I put it.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you do it wrong.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: You got to like get a tool.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a piece that can like wedge the plastic parts of, you know, back apart.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you got to try it again.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, what'd you say?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I can't even like I'm too busy, you know, putting plastic together, you know.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Flow state, yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: A Gundam flow state, you know.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like anything that you can find to do that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Part of me is also like,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: this is like the same thing I have about people buying Jordans
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: that they couldn't afford when they were 13.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Nike's business has been sort of,
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: they've really taken advantage of us in that way
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: for a long time.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the nostalgia of it all, like, yeah, I couldn't get this and now I can, you know?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And resellers and people not of the culture have messed it up a bit.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: But being able to
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: just do what you want.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because so many times growing up was just you're subjugated.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: You ask me,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: there could have been a whole different list if I would have had access to
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: so much more.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Even with Gundam, I didn't have cable growing up.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I would have to give my cousin...
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I used to buy a pack of those six-hour tapes, you know?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And just give it to him for a month and be like, can you please record Gundam every day for me?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I see him, I would get the tapes and then I'd watch it.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like three months behind on Dragon Ball Z and shit, you know?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: But boy, when you got those tapes, yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was going up when I got them tapes, you know what I mean?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know Mookie turned Super Saiyan?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, six months ago.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: The things I have lost that were on VHS are, like, really, it's, like, I can't imagine.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: They would be all pixelated now, but, like,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: just the stuff we recorded that I don't even know where it is anymore would be
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: a dream to have that back and digitized.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had, like,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: all these Yo
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: MTV raps and,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: so much, like,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: old hip-hop history and shit, like, that,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: unfortunately,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: you thought, well,
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: I thought in the internet era,
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: All this would be archived,
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: but now that they're deleting fucking interviews,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: they're deleting articles,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: and it's just like, if you don't have it, you don't have it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: It really fucking sucks.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's stuff that I can say happened, and I can't prove it happened.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know that shit happened.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you fucking really know?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the moon landing.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know that happened.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, but like the UMTV rap stuff, the thing that bums me out.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's some of these are available on YouTube,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: but like the live performances are fairly profanity free.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I can play them for my kid, like the old school.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff from like 1991, 92.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that's a whole rabbit hole to go down.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: your kid,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: you got to give him, well,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: he's not old enough,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: but I was four years old when my auntie gave me a Naughty by Nature tape.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that shit.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: First one, yeah.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me, sonny, you know I can find some booty.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: There it is.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: There it is.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: You got to give your kid a profane rap tape when he's like five or six, you know.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: The concern is not the profanity so much as a four-year-old hearing the N-word
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: and not knowing,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: not having any context for it and going to a school where there are many people
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: who are not white.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I just, it's not, this is not where we're going to go at this point.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I know because I'm like,
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, it's just, Uncle Moody
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: can explain why you can't say it, young gun.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: The police haven't stopped and profiled you yet.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Even then, you're like, he's still not 100% confident he's not going to say it.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, like,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: if he came home from school and they were like,
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: hey, Jay said the F word, I'd be like, oh, yeah, sorry.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if they were like, Jay said the N word, I'd be like, whoa, what?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: What, what, what?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: That would be...
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not a good situation.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, we'll get there.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I have found a use for the clean versions of a lot of songs.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's nice.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, speaking of hip hop, let's move on to your last item.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Ludicrous.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Ludicrous word of mouth album.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you...
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I basically asked you to pick one album because you said you had rap albums.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you were saying...
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, explain why this is one of your choices.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I didn't have cable growing up,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: so when I got out of school,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I used to just listen to music from the time I got home in my room to
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: the time I went to sleep.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Back in the day, man, you were lucky to get two or three videos per album.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And usually the videos were for the songs that weren't my favorite.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like my favorite songs never used to get a video.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that used to always bother the shit out of me.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just sit at my desk and like write out essentially like
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: a storyboard treatment of how I would imagine
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: this video going.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Walking down the street, this happens, then that happens.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's probably like, if I could find those papers, it would probably be rudimentary as fuck.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as deep as I want it to be, you know?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like me laying the basis foundation of me becoming
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: a director was me being like,
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: oh, They're not putting what I want to see into the world.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: So how can I do it myself?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or if I had the opportunity to put this into the world,
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: what would I do and how would I approach it?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And me sitting there in my mind,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: essentially creating these worlds,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: kind of like what we were talking about earlier, it might not be like.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Fantasy laden is like ludicrous on a dragon,
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: but it's still me occupying and creating a place that doesn't exist
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: that I think other people would enjoy.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that might be the antithesis of like a fantasy world is like something
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: that doesn't exist,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: but you're creating it because you think other people can enjoy it.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, Yeah,
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: that's kind of what I used to do is just listen to music and just be in my head
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: and putting together worlds and like rudimentary shot list of like how I would want
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: to.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember like the Ludacris album being one of them.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can't think of any track.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let me look it up the track list.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I just know that word of mouth went like platinum in my middle school room.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you still storyboard today?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are you drawing?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're a visual artist, too.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you and I come at it from different angles.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: If we were both going to say,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: hey, let's make a movie, I would be writing out a description of a scene.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you draw it?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not unless I'm working with a brand and I have to...
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Make people see my vision, you know what I mean?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Usually,
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: coming from a photojournalism background,
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just shoot verite,
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: which is like, I want to say a French word for real cinema, you know?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like me flexing because, yeah, you got a shot list and that shit is boring.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it's way more...
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Creative and
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: ballsy to shoot a movie and you're just following story beats
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: that could lead you anywhere.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Earlier this year,
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: I did something with North Face highlighting my closet and my jackets
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: and everything.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And for that, I did draw a shot list.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's still pretty rudimentary.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, me, and you drag the jackets around me.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want people in green suits,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm going to key them out,
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: but I want them dancing back and forth so it looks like the jackets are floating.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: I had a shot called the Jawbreaker shot,
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: where it was 12 jackets on me, and we just peel them off until you get to the core.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about putting picture frames behind me with green screen
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: and they're just like blah, blah in the green screen.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is elaborate.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Extremely.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I still get more engagement than the guys who got like
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: a really elaborate shot list down to like he furrows his brow extreme close up.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean like Creativity doesn't need guidelines.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: When there's an ROI, yeah, it kind of take the piss out of it a bit, you know?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the fun part is, like, it's a puzzle, you know what I mean?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, getting to put together the puzzle.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, too many people worry about the finish.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know what a finished puzzle looks like.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: The fucking cover of the box showed me.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: The fun in the puzzle is finding the pieces to make it work.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you shoot stuff verite, you constantly have to find those pieces.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, luckily I ain't shit the bed yet.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: it might happen one day because it'd be like,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: hey, man, you should have had a shot less of you.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this could have.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: This could have been avoided with a shot list.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: But even in the past,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: I directed the North Face Black History Month video,
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: and my shot list was like, walk down the street.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, what?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, walk down the street.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to go to the Civil Rights Museum, stand in front of the sign.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ida B.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wells has a mural.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to stand in front of the mural.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we got a commercial.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, And that shit got, like, 7.7 million views on North Face Instagram.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: To this day, it's one of the most, like, I would say top five.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've been, like, outplayed by a couple of videos that had way more production value.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: But, like, the thing is, good story trumps all that bullshit.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: A unique heart-to-heart, it trumps all that.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, with my documentaries, especially as a black man, most...
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Most documentaries shot by white boys who come into the hood, I have a story to tell.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they,
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: imagine that you're sitting at the table with your family eating dinner and there's
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: a guy standing in your front yard with a camera.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's how most documentaries film black people.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're observing us.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: When I make something, you're at the table.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm passing you the fucking mashed potatoes.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're like a part of the process, the family.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, Yeah, I don't care what your shot list is.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not at the table, then how are you going to tell me how good was the food, bro?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: How good it smelled?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: How happy were the people when you don't sit with us?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, it's like documentaries do not.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Most of these motherfuckers who are like the best, they don't see black people as humans.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: So like the only way that you can, I mean, doc work.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: In general is exploitative because they don't see anyone as...
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: They don't see the power in anyone.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like just today,
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: the Art of Documentary posted on Instagram like story...
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: A character is better than a story.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a real open character, that's way more exciting than a good story.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: because you want a fucking alcoholic who's going to drink till he pukes on camera.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: You want a drug addict who's going to shoot up in front of you.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: You want like...
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some dystopian, like, I'm so poor, living in the hood, look at my bullet wounds.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't know how to talk to a person and actually uplift them.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: You need the fucking controversial side of things to be a good story.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, like, I don't really respect most of my contemporaries in the doc space.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: They can have awards.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: They can go to all the festivals.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yo shit suck.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sign Malik.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not impressed.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like...
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not impressed.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, your documentary with REI is a human story.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: We were with you brushing your teeth to,
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: like, the whole process, and it's like you're at the table.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have people at the table,
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: then, like, you're missing out on a lot of good stuff, you know?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I keep just harping on, like,
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: with the black community because I don't know if you know this, I'm a black man.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, like,
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: just how doc work has,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: it is my career and how people have tried to,
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: like, And tell my story through doc work.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the older and more seasoned I get in my career, I'm less impressed.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I have a documentary with Yeti and like.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: They got me taken.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: They had me take them to the place where I first saw someone get killed in,
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and I have a full interview with Ernest Withers daughter.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ernest Withers was a.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Martin Luther King's photographer.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about all the iconic images from the 1960s, Ernest Withers took them.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was him or Gordon Parks.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: And me and Ernest Withers shot for the same newspaper.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if you go in their fucking lobby, it's like Ernest Withers front cover.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then it becomes me front cover.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: I did like a two hour interview with his daughter.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: None of that is in the fucking documentary.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why the fuck are we going by the first place I saw someone killed?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: And, like...
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I do not feel seen in anything that was ever made about me.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I do not feel powerful about anything that was made about me.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't like that shit, you know?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes me years and like,
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of successful now so I can start talking shit,
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: but it's just like,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know, it is what it is.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't see the world the same as you.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if I want a documentary world,
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: To exist,
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: then I have to create it to show people what it is to be seen and fully be with me
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: at the table as I go through murders,
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: as I live through tragedy, as I live through rebuilding myself.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big difference between me directing it and versus somebody else.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so much of that, I think, comes from people being able to...
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: They have to parachute in.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have the, they aren't comfortable in the environment, you know?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are telling the story from the inside,
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: you're able to be like, hey, we can improv this.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: We can verite.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: We can shoot verite.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I'm, these are my people.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know these stories.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's easier for me as opposed to there.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably like,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: hey, we need to be in and out in four days and here's the shots we think we need.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then like, oh, that's good.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do that.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's kind of a lot of what you're saying.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when the people who the story is about don't have that much say,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: it gets to be told from a different perspective completely.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: When you're from a disparaged community,
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: there might be some feelings of this is the only time
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: that I feel like I can be highlighted.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is my chance to be seen in the world.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it all kind of loops back in about,
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: like, creating a fantasy world that's fake versus, like,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: Through documentary, people can still create a fantasy world.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have a story to tell.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so weird for dudes who come in somebody else's neighborhood
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: and be like, I have a story to tell.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, who the fuck are you?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Who the fuck are you to tell a story about these people?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to shoot a movie with the hood, move there.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Get shot at.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Get robbed a couple times.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Lose a loved one in front of you.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe you could have a story to tell.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: But you just coming in there for, like you said, four days.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Project Pat has a song that's really good for this.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: It says, if you ain't from my hood, you can get from around here.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Repeat four times.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you ain't from my hood, you can get from around here.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, yeah, bro.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you here?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the people who are there want to get out.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is maybe previous to your generation,
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm old so I can remember when Chuck D said this on a news interview
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: at some point when he said rap music is CNN for black people.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's relevant to what you're saying.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: This was the voice that they had in the late 80s and early 90s.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is the way we can tell the stories about what's actually happening here
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: from our perspective.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think Chuck D. also said, fuck John Wayne.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: I believe the direct quote is, Motherfuck him and John Wayne.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's talking about Elvis.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that too.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was him and Flavor Flav, yeah.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Elvis was the hero at the most, but he never meant shit to me.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's straight out.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Racist, that sucker was simple and plain.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: Motherfuck him and John Wayne.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, because if you're from Memphis,
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: the true tale of
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: a Memphian is Elvis' house is right up
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: the street.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've never went.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Never wanted to go.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't give me a free ticket to go to Elvis' house.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, if you ask any Memphian, have you ever been to Elvis' house?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to tell you no.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that is, like, that's how you know if you grew up in Memphis or not.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, fuck Elvis.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: We probably do a whole podcast on Elvis.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my grandma and them used to tell.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wish my great-grandma was alive.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: She was from Holly Springs, Mississippi.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she used to tell a story of, like,
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: Elvis used to learn guitar from the – come to the – Poor Dunk,
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: Mississippi, and all the blues players there was teaching him how to play guitar.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: And when he got rich, he would come back to the neighborhood and like pass out 20s and shit.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: True story.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: He did come back.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, he did come back.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, here's a little commission for
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: helping me figure out this rock and roll.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's about a week of groceries.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's about a week of groceries for you people, right?
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that'll work.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, this is amazing.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: My conscience is clear.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now I feel better.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can't say fuck me, right?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see what history says.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, this was so fun.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing it.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go through your list here.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, Terminator.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think we got to include Terminator 2 in that.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Terminator 2.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Terminator 2.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Number 3, Legend of Zelda.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Number 4, Gundam Wing.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number 5, Ludicrous Word of Mouth album.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, thanks so much for doing this.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: This was so fun.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, G.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're a good person, Brendan, and a good friend.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you see me as a human, and I appreciate that through all facets, man.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you, man.