Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / Benjamin Watson on Why Faith Is More Visible Than Ever in Sports -- and Why That Matters

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Benjamin Watson on Why Faith Is More Visible Than Ever in Sports -- and Why That Matters · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Hey Ben, thanks for joining me.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hey Man, great to be with you.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Benjamin Watson, former NFL player and editor in.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Chief of Sports Spectrum, which my son, by the way,
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: reads regularly. He's here to talk with us about faith
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: in sports, and with the Super Bowl just around the corner,
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: we're else going to talk about Sports Spectrums partnership this
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: year with Compassionate International. Been able to talk about faith
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: in sports first because as we were talking before we
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  Speaker 3: started this, I'm a believer and I'm a sports fan.
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  Speaker 3: Ten to fifteen years ago, we had Tim Tebow and
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  Speaker 3: he was kind of the most prominent guy. He got
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  Speaker 3: a lot of attention for kneeling in the end zone.
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  Speaker 3: But it seems like today we have a thousand Tim
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  Speaker 3: Tepos out there and it's marvelous to watch as a.
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  Speaker 2: Believer and as a fan of sports.
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  Speaker 3: What has happened in the past few years to have
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  Speaker 3: so many prominent athletes and even guys behind the scenes
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  Speaker 3: and like second and third teen guys talking about Jesus
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  Speaker 3: prominently on television and.
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  Speaker 2: Just their social media accounts. What's happening?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that those last two words you said,
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  Speaker 4: the social media part, I think is a huge part
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  Speaker 4: of it. You know, I don't think that this is new,
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  Speaker 4: but I do think that the platform that athletes are
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  Speaker 4: using social media, a lot of new technologies, is just
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  Speaker 4: raising our awareness of the fact that a lot of
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  Speaker 4: athletes have faith. A lot of athletes care about, you know,
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  Speaker 4: their faith that they are, they are Christians, they read
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  Speaker 4: their Bibles, they do other things that everybody else does.
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  Speaker 4: But there's more of an acceptance now, I think of
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  Speaker 4: culturally of athletes sharing these things. We did some research
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  Speaker 4: and Sports Spectrum and we found that a large percentage
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  Speaker 4: of sports fans are okay with athletes expressing their interests
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  Speaker 4: outside of the game. And I do think specifically, even
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  Speaker 4: when I think about my career, the timeframe that I
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  Speaker 4: was in college as well as the NFL, there was
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  Speaker 4: an acceptance of that to some respect, but I think
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  Speaker 4: that it's escalated over the last several years to where,
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  Speaker 4: you know, guys are championing social causes, they're championing philanthropy,
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  Speaker 4: all these social things, and faith is also part of that.
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  Speaker 1: So I think that's one thing. But I think also that.
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  Speaker 4: It's important to recognize how many athletes, especially in football,
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  Speaker 4: that were believers. I mean, I remember growing up, you know,
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  Speaker 4: being in high school in the nineties and getting my
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  Speaker 4: little Fellowship of Christian Athletes Bible and being able to
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  Speaker 4: read about guys like a niece Williams, or guys like
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  Speaker 4: you know, the late Reggie White or I'm Kurt Warner
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  Speaker 4: and all these other guys from yesteryear that played that
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  Speaker 4: had testimonies, but we just didn't have all the avenues
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  Speaker 4: to share them that we have now. So it's encouraging
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  Speaker 4: and I think that it's It's also a reminder that
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  Speaker 4: when one person or two people or three people step
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  Speaker 4: out and say certain things, it gives other people confidence
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  Speaker 4: to say it as well, and it breaks down that
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  Speaker 4: the fear factor, so to speak, of speaking about something
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  Speaker 4: that's not the norm to hear in a postgame interview.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a poster Reggie Bite on my wall
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  Speaker 3: when I was growing up. I'm probably wasn't dating myself
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  Speaker 3: by saying that. I'm also curious that does the stress
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  Speaker 3: of sports kind of lead to this? Are are athletes
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  Speaker 3: looking for something outside of themselves to kind of help
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  Speaker 3: bomb their nerves on the quarter on the field.
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  Speaker 4: I think people are looking for something outside themselves in
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  Speaker 4: pressure situations, you know, there's an old old saying about
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  Speaker 4: there's no atheists and foughtsholes. I've never been in the military.
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  Speaker 4: I have great respect for the guys that do and
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  Speaker 4: the women that do fight for our country. But the
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  Speaker 4: idea there is the fact that when we are in
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  Speaker 4: situations that are beyond ourselves and beyond our personal capabilities,
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  Speaker 4: it is where God specifically has us to hear from
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  Speaker 4: him the most. And in my experience as an athlete,
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  Speaker 4: I hated training camp. I hated training camp like I hated.
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  Speaker 1: Being away from the family.
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  Speaker 4: I hated like a body, feeling like I got hit
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  Speaker 4: by a car every single day, like I didn't enjoy
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  Speaker 4: a lot of.
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  Speaker 1: Those parts of training camp. But one thing that I
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  Speaker 1: did look forward to.
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  Speaker 4: In a weird way in training camp was the fact
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  Speaker 4: that I know I knew that I was going to
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  Speaker 4: be pushed beyond my physical and that I was going
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  Speaker 4: to have a dedicated space and a desire to get
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  Speaker 4: in the word because I needed to center myself. I
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  Speaker 4: needed to understand that this isn't all there was, and
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  Speaker 4: I needed God to help me like I need it.
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  Speaker 4: I needed that during that time because I was stretched
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  Speaker 4: to my physical limit, and so I do think that
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  Speaker 4: there is something too when we get in situations, whether
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  Speaker 4: it's in our lives as parents, our lives as spouses,
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  Speaker 4: our occupational lives in this case sports, when we get
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  Speaker 4: in those types of situations where we are beyond our
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  Speaker 4: physical capabilities, I think it does push us. Now, the
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  Speaker 4: key is are we going to lean into that and
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  Speaker 4: embrace it or is it going to be God is
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  Speaker 4: my good luckure?
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  Speaker 1: And so those are the two extremes.
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  Speaker 4: And the encouraging thing that I've seen from a lot
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  Speaker 4: of these young athletes is that there seems to be
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  Speaker 4: a genuine faith. Sure for some of them, Like many people,
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  Speaker 4: it is a good looktron. You know, it's just something
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  Speaker 4: that we're going to say, raised to say this or whatever.
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  Speaker 4: But I do think that for a lot of athletes
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  Speaker 4: and people, you know, they are on their road of
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  Speaker 4: maturation as believers, but it is just amplified when they're
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  Speaker 4: in those types of situations.
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  Speaker 2: And we've had worship services led by students.
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  Speaker 3: I think the as you I were discussing for this,
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  Speaker 3: I'm a Tennessee fan, but you're a Georgia fan. But
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  Speaker 3: watching what was going on at Ohio State the last
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  Speaker 3: few years has been so encouraging, and that spread to
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  Speaker 3: other campuses.
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  Speaker 2: Pitt had had it going on. I know Alabama had
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  Speaker 2: it going on, and there are other.
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  Speaker 3: Campuses as well. So it seems to be there's a
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  Speaker 3: like a quiet revival going on behind the scenes on
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  Speaker 3: these campuses. Do you agree with that? And you know
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  Speaker 3: among athletes as well.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
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  Speaker 4: I had an opportunity to talk to some of the
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  Speaker 4: guys from the Ohio State team.
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  Speaker 1: I was talking to c. J. Stroud about it.
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  Speaker 4: He was a little bit before that, and one thing
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  Speaker 4: he said to me. We were at a conference together
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  Speaker 4: and I was talking to him about it. He said,
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  Speaker 4: you know what, that wasn't me. So that wasn't my
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  Speaker 4: That wasn't me. That was the next generation.
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  Speaker 1: I can't claim that.
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  Speaker 4: We may have some of the foundation for that, but
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  Speaker 4: he was like those guys to get further. And it
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  Speaker 4: reminds of being scripture when it talks about, you know,
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  Speaker 4: passing these things on to reliable men who could then
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  Speaker 4: pass them on to somebody else. And so there's this
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  Speaker 4: generational impact on these college campuses of athletes taking a
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  Speaker 4: stand and then the younger one seeing what it means
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  Speaker 4: and them doing the same thing and then I think
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  Speaker 4: it all still circles back to our news cycles and
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  Speaker 4: the way that we can consume so much information. You know,
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  Speaker 4: we can see what's happening on Ohio State's campus in
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  Speaker 4: the middle of spring, you know, on a Tuesday, in
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  Speaker 4: ways that before, if the national media was not there
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  Speaker 4: watching it, we would have no idea that this was
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  Speaker 4: even happening. And so while I do I do when
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  Speaker 4: I hotter that and say that there has been an increase,
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  Speaker 4: there's evidence of that, it's also the fact that we
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  Speaker 4: can see it, and I think that that's the beauty
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  Speaker 4: of this moment. The beauty of the moment is that
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  Speaker 4: we're living in an age that is unlike any before us,
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  Speaker 4: and our kids will live in one that's unlike we
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  Speaker 4: are in now. But we're living in an age where
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  Speaker 4: we can exchange so much information. We can make Christ's
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  Speaker 4: name known in so many different ways that we have
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  Speaker 4: to grasp a hold of it.
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  Speaker 1: And that's a lot. When we talk about sports spectrum,
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  Speaker 1: that's the beauty of where we.
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  Speaker 4: Sit kind of to our fans of sport to be
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  Speaker 4: followers of Jesus, is that there are so many different
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  Speaker 4: avenues to do that, whether it's social media, where there's
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  Speaker 4: law form movies, whether it's interviews with some of these athletes,
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  Speaker 4: whether it's you know, devotions that are written and printed
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  Speaker 4: of an athlete. Like, there's just so many opportunities, and
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  Speaker 4: it's an encouragement to hit anybody who's a believer to
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  Speaker 4: really lead into that and grasp it.
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  Speaker 3: Before we just switch to sports spectrum and Compassion International,
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  Speaker 3: I did want to ask you about just being an
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  Speaker 3: athlete and being a Christian, because I'm assuming that one
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  Speaker 3: reason maybe athletes were hesitant to speak out about their
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  Speaker 3: faith for a long time was because of how it
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  Speaker 3: might have been viewed as kind of making it too passive.
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  Speaker 3: I remember the old story of Reggie White, he was
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  Speaker 3: second quarterback and then helped them up saying Jesus loves you.
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  Speaker 2: But but that's far more prominent now.
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  Speaker 3: So I guess as a Christian in your in your
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  Speaker 3: NFL career, how did your faith shape how you competed
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  Speaker 3: on the field or did it at all? I mean,
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  Speaker 3: you're gonna, of course, you're a tight end. You're being tackled,
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  Speaker 3: but you know you're going you're gonna want to be
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  Speaker 3: as competitive as anybody else. You're gonna hit gonna want
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  Speaker 3: to hit as hard as anybody else.
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  Speaker 1: What I ought to say about.
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  Speaker 4: That, Well, well, Brian Dawkins, the linebacker actually the safety
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  Speaker 4: play for the Eagles, play for Denver, was known as
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  Speaker 4: one of the hardest hitters. And this guy one time
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  Speaker 4: tackled me and you know, vicious, and he gets up
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  Speaker 4: and he tells me Jesus loves me. He's like, God
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  Speaker 4: bless you. And he's like running back to the huddle,
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  Speaker 4: like quoting script. And then we come out again and
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  Speaker 4: I go to block him and he gives me a
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  Speaker 4: forearm right to the chest. And you know, when you
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  Speaker 4: hit Bribe, you had to be ready, you know. So
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  Speaker 4: I hit him, hit him back. But you know, that's
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  Speaker 4: how he was. He would be almost in perpetual worship
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  Speaker 4: during football games, which is the weirdest thing ever. But
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  Speaker 4: there's the misk exception that you can't be aggressive and
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  Speaker 4: do your job and be a Christian like that. There's
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  Speaker 4: I don't know where we get that from. You know,
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  Speaker 4: we don't get it from watching and reading about Christ,
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  Speaker 4: Like we don't get any passivity from him. We get
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  Speaker 4: passivity from Adam. We get him from that, but we
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  Speaker 4: don't get it from the second atom in Christ. We
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  Speaker 4: don't get passivity, we get courage, we get responsibility, we
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  Speaker 4: get you know, being a dynamic leader. We get all
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  Speaker 4: those teams looking at at Christ. And so for me
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  Speaker 4: as an athlete, it really it really helped me with perspective.
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  Speaker 4: I would say I would say that the biggest part
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  Speaker 4: of it was having a perspective that this isn't all
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  Speaker 4: there is and whether you are on the highest of highs,
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  Speaker 4: which the two teams that are playing in the Super Bowl,
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  Speaker 4: one of them is going to be an incredible high
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  Speaker 4: in two weeks. They're going to be on top of
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  Speaker 4: the world. The other one is going to feel like
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  Speaker 4: they've they've wasted almost.
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  Speaker 1: An entire season.
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  Speaker 4: They're gonna it's not true, but they're going to be
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  Speaker 4: in a valley after losing. The biggest gain the perspective
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  Speaker 4: that believers have is that this is not all there is.
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  Speaker 4: Although this is vitally important because this is the word
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  Speaker 4: God has given us to do, that this is not
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  Speaker 4: all there is and that God can still use them
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  Speaker 4: whether they want or where they lost.
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  Speaker 1: And as an athlete.
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  Speaker 4: Who has struggled with that before, that is kind of
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  Speaker 4: the anchor I always say the second part about being
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  Speaker 4: a believer is you grasp opportunities. And what I've seen,
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  Speaker 4: you know, you asked a question about you know, players
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  Speaker 4: maybe not speaking out as much in the past. What
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  Speaker 4: I am seeing though, is athletes grasping the opportunity to
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  Speaker 4: speak on truth and to speak on Christ when they
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  Speaker 4: have the microphone, because you don't know where you're gonna.
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  Speaker 1: Have it again. Yeah, yeah, Jesus, you know listening.
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  Speaker 4: You don't know who's listening, whether it be a believer,
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  Speaker 4: non believer, somebody ten years from now that watches it.
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  Speaker 4: And so it reminds you that we are to be
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  Speaker 4: wise with every opportunity that we get, especially in sport,
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  Speaker 4: where so much is admissible. Can you imagine someone that
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  Speaker 4: works for a corporate five hundred company just talking about
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  Speaker 4: Jesus in an interview. It doesn't happen as much, But
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  Speaker 4: in sport you can talk about whatever you want to
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  Speaker 4: talk about.
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  Speaker 1: Just play this play well and look. I love you
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  Speaker 1: if you're a believer, I love you if you're an atheist.
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  Speaker 4: Honestly, like cause we're out here to play football and
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  Speaker 4: we have a camaraderie together. How about take advantage of it.
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  Speaker 4: If you are a believer, to use that platform to
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  Speaker 4: speak about the law.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you're talking about top players in leftl
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  Speaker 3: Jesus Jesus confronted, you know, evil Jesus.
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  Speaker 2: Jesus was confrontational. So it's it's he was far from passive.
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  Speaker 3: Like you said, let's talk about Sports Spectrum partnering with
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  Speaker 3: Compassion International.
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  Speaker 2: I know a lot about both organizations.
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  Speaker 3: I didn't know about this partnership until you don't got
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: the pressories about it. What do we need to know
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  Speaker 3: about this sen How are you guys kind of helping
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  Speaker 3: further the mission from the Kingdom.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Sports Spectrum, as you know, and if people
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  Speaker 4: don't know where a media platform where the intersection of
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  Speaker 4: faith in sport and our mission is to aspire fans
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  Speaker 4: of sport to be followers of Christ of Jesus. And
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  Speaker 4: so a lot of our supporters are a lot of
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  Speaker 4: people that get the magazine or connect with us on
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  Speaker 4: social media or read some of the devotions that are
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  Speaker 4: our staff rights are already believers. And then there are
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  Speaker 4: others who love sports and simply want to, you know,
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  Speaker 4: consume more sports content, and we invite that.
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  Speaker 1: We want to be excellent in that area.
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  Speaker 4: But we also wanted to point people to Christ through
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  Speaker 4: the voices of supporting narratives as well as our athletes.
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  Speaker 1: A Capacity International you.
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  Speaker 4: Know, as you know, they create have services throughout the
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  Speaker 4: world honestly when it comes to pulling kids out of
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  Speaker 4: poverty and not just pulling them out of poverty through
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  Speaker 4: programs meeting their real needs with the to be education,
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: employment for parents, all those sorts of things. But they
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  Speaker 4: also intlce it with working with churches primarily or other
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  Speaker 4: ministries in order to present the Gospel to kids and
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  Speaker 4: families as well. And so we've been in conjunction with
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  Speaker 4: them before, specifically through a pro athlete's outreach, which is
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: kind of the housing organization Force Force spectrum.
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  Speaker 1: Compassion has been a partner for a long time.
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  Speaker 4: Several athletes have gone on mission trips with Compassion International.
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  Speaker 4: My wife and our kids, all seven of them ages sixteen.
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  Speaker 1: Down to six.
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  Speaker 4: We went to Guatemala this past summer with Compassion International
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  Speaker 4: and stayed for about a week saw their work in
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  Speaker 4: the country. Was able to experience some of the programs
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  Speaker 4: that the kids go through, that young moms go through,
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  Speaker 4: some of the educational programming at the schools that they have,
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  Speaker 4: and so it's personal for us when it comes to
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  Speaker 4: sponsoring children that we've had a chance to actually meet
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  Speaker 4: on the field.
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  Speaker 1: And so going into the Super Bowl.
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  Speaker 4: We have a part ownership with them, basically meaning that
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  Speaker 4: we in collaboration with them as we go on radio Row,
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  Speaker 4: as we do our podcast will be promoting some of
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  Speaker 4: the work of Compassion as well.
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  Speaker 1: Amen to that.
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  Speaker 3: Let me ask you a football question, another football question
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  Speaker 3: before I let you go, and you played with Tom Brady,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: if you won a Super Bowl, let me ask you
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  Speaker 3: two questions. Actually, how did winning a Super Bowl? What
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: was it like to win Super Bowl emotionally? And secondly,
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  Speaker 3: how did that moment shape how you view life and faith?
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  Speaker 3: Because I'm saying that because it was probably quite a high.
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  Speaker 3: But it didn't last. So give us both answers there
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  Speaker 3: from a sports fan's perspective but also from a biblical perspective.
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  Speaker 2: But what it's like to a Super Bowl?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, it doesn't last, which is crazy because
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: you work your entire life for that moment.
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  Speaker 1: Well, your your entire sports life.
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  Speaker 4: I hate them people say your entire life, but but
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  Speaker 4: you really your entire sports life from when you become
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  Speaker 4: a fan of the game, to playing the game, to
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  Speaker 4: going through college to dealing with injury, you know, to
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: try to reach this moment and it doesn't last like
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  Speaker 4: you know, nobody cares who won.
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  Speaker 1: Last year, Like all of a sudden, it doesn't matter.
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  Speaker 1: But it's amazing to do.
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  Speaker 4: And so for me, you know, whatever, you're watching the
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  Speaker 4: game this in two weeks this February, understand that there
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: are going to be a lot of people in a
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  Speaker 4: lot of different places. There are going to be some
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  Speaker 4: guys who when they win the game, it's just going
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: to be the best thing that ever happened to them,
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  Speaker 4: and they are going to be laded with no reservation.
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  Speaker 4: Then there are gonna be some guys that are on
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  Speaker 4: the team and they won, but they feel like they
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: didn't play enough, or they didn't contribute enough, or there
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: was something that wasn't quite right. So they're happy, but
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: they wish something else would have happened. Then they're gonna
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: be some guys that you may not even see on
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  Speaker 4: the team that are injured who didn't get to play,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: and they may be super happy or they may be
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: really bittersweet about what happened.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And I was the last group.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: I was a guy who tore my a cl was
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: out of the game, couldn't play, couldn't practice. I was
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: at the game in Jacksonville when we beat the Eagles,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: and I was happy for the team, and I got
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: a ring and all those sorts of things because I
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: was on the team. But I felt really bittersweet about
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: it because I waited this entire time for my life
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: and worked so hard only to not be able to
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: actually be on the field and play. And so for me,
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: it was bittersweet. And I think for all of those
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: three sections of players, and there's a whole other thing
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: for coaches and pairs, but for all those three sections,
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: perspective is important because for the guy who didn't play,
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: it's not lasting forever. For the guy who won and
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: was on the field and was the starting quarterback and
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: was the MVP, it doesn't last forever.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You could ask Tom Brady, you.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: Know, for the guy who wishes things to happen better,
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: it doesn't last forever. And that's why when we look
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: at our lives as believers and we understand that life
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: is a vapor, and we understand that we're here today
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: and we're going tomorrow, it doesn't diminish the importance of
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: this game because the pressure is going to be real,
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: the expectations are going to be real. You know, the
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: desire to win is going to be real. But you
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: do see it from a perspective of how does me
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: participating or not participating, How do I do that to
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: the glory of God? How do I respond in a
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: way that is pointing people to Jesus? Like, like, how
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: do I respond in a way when people see me play,
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: when they hear me give interviews, when they see my response,
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: does it point to the truth of the Gospel? And
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: even in our disappointment, because there are incredible opportunities, even
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: for the losing team. You know, we have this idea
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: sometimes even as believers. And I've had this before that.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, God, Like I'm a Christian, I'm gonna go in
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: this game. I'm gonna help you out. I'm gonna catch
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the winning touchdown. When I catch the winning touchdown, not
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: in regulation.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: In double overtime, i will be interviewed by every outlet
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: on the globe, and I'll say something about Jesus.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: And because I'll say something about Jesus, people going to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: become Christians. And You'll look at me and be like,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: thank you, Benjamin for what you did.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: But the reality is God doesn't need us for his
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: name to be known.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: He doesn't need us. He invites us into it, and
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the harvest that he gleans from that, that his spirit
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: draws to him is not predicated on our performance in
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the game. It's predicated on what he wants to do.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So we are to simply be obedient. And so for
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the believers that are in the game, man, it's a
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: great opportunity, but it's a great responsibility. But I'm more.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: Worried about how those guys digest the highs of winning
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: and your value seems super high, or the lows of losing,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: while still understanding that your value is inherent in the
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: fact that you're created by God that loves you. That's
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: the less and that's a reminder that hopefully believers have
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: that allows them to navigate and float through the season
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: of uncertainty of the ups and down of sport while
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: still saying, man, you know he loved me so much
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: that to die for me and that rose again, and
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: I value because of that, not because of what I
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: did or didn't do on this field.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: If you like today's episode, please subscribe and leave a
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: five star review. That's how we help more people just
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: like you find the show. A big thanks to the
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: team at life Audio for their partnership with us on
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: See you next time.