Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Bonus! | The Self-Pres Seven Nobody Expects | Business, Freedom & the Enneagram with Alli Worthington

Transcript

Bonus! | The Self-Pres Seven Nobody Expects | Business, Freedom & the Enneagram with Alli Worthington · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:09
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, I've had a lot of fun because this year I did what I thought was going to be really hard, but it's actually been so easy.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why didn't I do this before?
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And that is spending a whole month on each Enneagram type and going into sending order.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: We started at the nines, and then all month long I'm talking either specifically about a seven in the spiritual direction for that type, this month of seven, and then just talking to other sevens from different perspectives.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been such a fun way to do it this year.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: And this month might be a little bit my favorite.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Have you talked to any self-pressed sevens yet?
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, that's what's really interesting, Allie, is that I was excited to go that direction a little bit with you because I have a self-pressed seven daughter, and I am a social seven.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: She has a stronger six-wing.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: I have a stronger eight-wing.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: So it looks different.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: And I I think you're self-pressed seven with a stronger six-wing.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, six-wing in my relationships, eight-wing at work.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I totally see that.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: I would not doubt that for her.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: So tell me about self-self-prezed seven as opposed to maybe the sevens we see in memes or the what we think a stereotypical seven is like.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I always think of like I always think of Annie F.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Downs and her confetti canon.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Like that's what people think of sevens.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm never gonna have a confetti canon on stage.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm gonna be way more serious.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't realize that I was self-pres until a few years ago.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: And someone said, Oh, you're just a classic self-prez seven.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: And I went, Oh, that's why I'm not a party a minute gal.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: And like I'm introverted.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: I can I can do big groups.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: I I love big groups, but I need I need downtime later.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I will, I will go a full seven days without leaving my house.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: I I don't need to get out there, I don't need to mingle.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: People are always shocked, but people are shocked by two things when they meet me.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: They're taught, they're shocked that I'm more serious than they thought I would be, and that I'm very tall.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: That's what I hear from everyone.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: I bet.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: I bet yeah, I think people imagine me as like a petite party of a girl, but I am I am a more serious giraffe.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't call you a giraffe at all.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you high, you have an advantage there for sure, but you you're you're graceful with it.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: I well, I'm curious to know because Myers Briggs, Dis Tests, Six Working Genius, all of those are tools and technologies that I found very helpful in my coaching process.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And I know you use a lot of them as well.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: So your familiarity with Myers Briggs, introvert versus extrovert, how do you see that comparing or being an overlay on top of the self-prez seven?
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, do you mean in terms of Myers Briggs or just for me being an introvert as opposed to?
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you being an introvert versus an extrovert.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I guess I mean, if you really want to get into it, I'm probably more of an ambivert.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: I remember in college, I would take the Myers Briggs one year and then take it another.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one time I took it, I'd be a little more I and then a little more E, a little more introverted versus extroverted.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: But I think, I think so potentially when I tend to be more introverted, that is a big part.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I've never thought about it before.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: That's probably a big part of me being in self-preservation because I'm managing my energy, I'm managing, I'm always managing how much I have to give.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I've in my work, I've known for years that I should just be showing up casually on video, on social media, and just talking to the camera.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: But for some reason I wouldn't do it.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And I went to a therapist and she said, and after working with everything, she said, You're doing so much caretaking.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: You take take care of your family.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: I have two of the people in my family who have an illness, and you take care of your coaching clients all the time.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you have anything else to give.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: You're preserving your energy.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that makes sense.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think it probably ties into me being more introverted.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, I can give so much, and then I need to refuel.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: I have had this conversation about the subtypes with a few people over the years.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: One conversation in particular with was with Suzanne Stabil for one of my stomachs.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And we weren't planning on talking about it, it just happened.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Her husband had a heart attack not long before.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: She talked about how self-pre or she wasn't normally self-preservation, she was social too.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: But when her husband had a heart attack, the self-pres, which was her repressed subtype, flipped to the top.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And she was operating in that so strongly that they had to go to marriage counseling because she changed how she engaged with her husband.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: And he wasn't a fan, he wasn't liking this.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: And so they, as they talked through it, she realized what had happened.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, this is the thing.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: This is my theory, that a lot of times when we have big life change events, not necessarily traumatic, but marriage, having kids, major work change change, life transition, launching kits, maybe those subtypes change up a little bit.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's where women maybe even say, I feel like I lost myself, or I'm not the same kind of person.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: For you, with the self-preservation and introvert feeling needing to pull away, has it always been the case, or has this been in the years of mothering and being a wife and running a business and all the things that you do?
6:35
SPEAKER_01: I think if anything, the past 20 years is my career journey.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: My my baby is turning 18 next week.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: So you know, it's been kind of career and parenting journey.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: I've been a parent for 27 years and I've had a career for 20 years.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: If anything, my career journey has made me less introverted.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: Because I think of an entrepreneurial journey as a personal development plan in disguise.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it is.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: So for me, I've had to develop skills and um strategies and strengths that I never would have before.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And I've developed confidence just as a as just accidentally along the way of figuring out how to grow a business.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: I've become a really confident woman now.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: I can say that at 49.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: I was not a confident woman at 39.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: I was a mess at 29.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Who knows at 19, right?
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: So I actually think that my career has made me less introverted over time because it's made me stronger.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: And I I have a greater capacity to give and a greater capacity to pour out to others.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: But there are certain seasons of my life that I kind of pull back into my more introverted um style of just retaining my energy to make sure that that I'm safe and I can take care of the people that I need to take care of.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: When you think of the other subtypes, the social and the one-to-one, do you feel like you incline to one of the other two as a secondary that doesn't drain you as much?
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Is that the the bigger groups?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Do you drive energy off of that or the one-on-one coaching, which I know you do a lot of, you do it over the phone, not Zoom.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: So that could be different.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I have, I mean, I spend all Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday one-on-one coaching all day long from nine to five.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: And I love it.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I never get tired.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it my my the way I have my work week is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, one-on-one coaching, Thursday, Friday work, podcast, everything else.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Saturday, I normally work on a book if I'm writing a book.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: My favorite days of the week are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: And I talk to people and they go, Oh, that would be so draining.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: I can't, I love it.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: But I do preserve my energy to be able to do that by making it just audio.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a phone call.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: If I was on Zoom, you would have to pull me out of my office like dead on the floor at 5 p.m.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Because so many more processes would be going on.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I'd be worried that I'm scratching my nose too much, or I'd be worried about like making sure I'm looking at that person and not and not like focusing in on the work of being a business coach.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: So maybe I I've never thought about it because once I found out about self-prez, I was like, well, if you look up seven self-prez in the dictionary, that's easy.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: I never thought about any other subtype.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: So one-to-one would be it, I guess.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: I think that's amazing.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: And that has been a helpful conversation with my coach community, those that I'm training and then those who just stay and want to be part of the collective is that learning to lean into that subtype and building a business that truly suits you.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Not just the personality lens, but that bent is really important because those instincts play into some of the joy or the draining elements of what we do.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, one thing I always tell my clients who are in kind of the beginning couple of years of starting a business, I go, hey, you get to set this up for you.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: You don't set up a business and set up the exact systems that are going to drain you.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Let's figure out what you like and let's like make the business work for you.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's like a light bulb goes off for people.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think people just haven't been given permission in the past to go, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm I'm gonna make it work for me.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to drain myself when I do it.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: It's really powerful.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: How long did it take you to figure that out?
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Because at first it was build a business out of necessity.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: It was I have to, you bootstrapped it.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: There's hustle while you're raising kids, just from this fact of you had to get something going.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: When were you able to finally lean into how you were made?
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Or what did you start learning how you're wired more and you evolved from that point?
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Because you have been in the business a long time and have a lot of things to say to that.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Before I was coaching pool time, I was doing some consulting and coaching, but I ran a large event.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: I had a magazine at first that I sold, and then I had a large events company.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: And I pretty much could run all that exactly how I wanted.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Just because when you're designing an event, you get to design events.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: But my mentor who really taught me how to coach when I moved into coaching full-time, it was a guy.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: And having a male mentor teaching you, like, here's the ins and outs of business coaching.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: I realized, like, oh, he's not doing any of his company to people please.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Like it was a revelation to me.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I remember once he had he had little kids at the time, and we were on a call, and he was in the backyard and his little kids were playing, and you could hear those little kids.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Do you do coaching calls like this with your clients?
12:09
SPEAKER_01: Like where kids are in the background?
12:11
SPEAKER_01: He goes, Yeah, of course.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What?
12:14
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe it.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And it was to me.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: And it was that moment I was like, oh, I really can do this next phase of my work any way I want to.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: And I'm really, it sounds crazy, but I'm grateful for having a dude as my mentor those years because men don't fall prey to a lot of the same traps that we do of people pleasing and twisting ourselves up into a pretzel to make sure that we're going to make somebody happy when a lot of times people don't really care.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: I've had maybe three people out of a thousand women I've coached say, I'd really prefer to do Zoom calls.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: And I have said, I'm so sorry, I don't do Zoom calls.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: I just find them exhausting.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: I prefer to focus on you and not the camera.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: And all three of them have gone, okay.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: But had I not had that moment in the beginning of going, Hey, what do I need?
13:07
SPEAKER_01: What's going to work for me?
13:08
SPEAKER_01: I could have been exhausting myself all these years.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's not just with work, it's with so many things that we as women set up in life.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: And and on the opposite end, it might work better for you.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: You might derive joy doing the Zoom calls.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Like you might Yeah, more power to anybody if they do.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: And I I admittedly have gone back and forth in that.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Again, knowing how you do business and learning from you and all of that, and thinking through how I coach versus how you, and even thinking, man, if you do a phone call, there is also some other boundaries that go into place naturally with a phone versus Zoom.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's not such a bad idea.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think one time when we were working together, we had to reschedule and and I gave you like two times that worked.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: And the time you picked, I was in the Delta Lounge.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: And it was still a great coaching call, but I was in the Delta Lounge.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: I I really I don't think I could have done that very well if it was Zoom.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: No, no, so many different ways.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: It keeps you on the move.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: When did Enneagram uh intersect your life and what kind of impact did it have first?
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Like obviously, the there's some aha moments, but we each have that kind of telltale, oh, this is what it changed for me because now I know, or these were the kind of conversations I was having because of it.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: I took the ready Enneagram test in maybe 2016.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: And like any um person with uh Enneagram 7 with ADD, I scammed it and went, this is dumb, this is a lot of information, whatever, and tossed it aside.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And then the Road Back to You came out, and it was Mother's Day 2017, maybe.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: I think whenever 2018, but probably 2017, that sounds about right.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: And I was flying to Seattle for a speaking event, and I bought the book and I was on the plane, and I read the chapter on Enneagram 7, and I wept on that plane.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Because I realized everything that professionally I had set up my work to do at that point was the worst thing you could have for an Ennegram 7.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Because I had I had shut down my company, agreed to start a ministry for someone else, really felt called that this is what I should do.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: And I was working building that ministry.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: And I did that um until 2018 when I left.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that prompting was like, oh, every single thing I'm doing is just built to destroy an Enneagram 7.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with me.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: I am in the wrong role.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: It is time to restart my company and get going again.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: And so interesting.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: I never turned back.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: That information and understanding the Enneagram unlocked so much for me.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Was it the limitations, bored, lack of freedom, and all of that working for someone else?
16:05
SPEAKER_01: Every single thing.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: The um you can't be micromanaged, you can't have somebody that's overly met but negative or critical like over your shoulder.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: Like what whatever hell is for an Enneagram seven, that's what I was in.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: But okay, freedom of understanding.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with you.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: You're in the wrong spot.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: That was freedom for me.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: I know you're not.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, maybe I don't know this.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Are you officially trained in the Enneagram or are you just an Enneagram ninja?
16:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm just a I'm I'm a ninja.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: My chief of staff is an Enneagram coach.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, she was trained as an she's funny.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: She has her PhD, she's brilliant, she's done everything.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: And she got training as an Enneagram coach.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always going to her, going, what about this?
16:52
SPEAKER_01: And what about that?
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: And she just uses it to help me, ninja, I guess.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, that was my wondering because behind the scenes, I am part of the catalyst group, the mastermind for it this year.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And you're doing amazing work in it, by the way.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, partly the girls in my circle, because we have a small group of seven of us.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: And oh my gosh, we all talk about if Allie makes us choose a different group, we're like, sorry, not signing up.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: But if she lets us, we're staying in it for like for next year?
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't want rebellion on my hands.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: No, no, you don't.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Not with this group.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: But all of that to say what's been fun.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Of course, I get to be the Enneagram guru, but they're all coming to me saying, Allie told me I'm not this type, or I'm probably this type.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So we have lots of conversations around it.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: We okay, in my defense.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: In my defense, I know the person you're talking about.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And I had known forever that she was not, she thought she thought she was a certain number.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: I knew she was a three because I know threes.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm married to a three.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: And so with my coaching clients, some of my coaching clients, we take trips.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: So we were at Disney, and I had I had told Ashley, Ashley's my chief of staff.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: I had said, this person thinks she's this.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: I want you to spend time with her.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: And then if the spirit moves, we're gonna have an intervention.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: And there's no better place for an intervention than Animal Kingdom having amazing food.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Sounds like my idea fun.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Which I know you're not supposed to be like, yo, let's talk about their Instagram number.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes if you're their coach, even a business coach, you just, you know, totally that a little bit.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, it has been fun because in our group, accidentally, and I don't know if you realize, but there was another gal too, it wasn't as recent, but she awesome.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: You nudged her in a different direction.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: And then of course, all of them are like, okay, I'm gonna take your test.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: And I I do have this fun little bit of if you haven't done Enneagram the wholehearted way, you maybe haven't done the Enneagram.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: And so that has just led, yeah, to really great questions.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And I I yours is a rare story that took a test, scored, read the book, hit the nail on the head, and you've been walking into that.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: So I guess I'm just curious from a coach standpoint, but also just as a seven and working with a lot of women, because I do think Enneagram can provide a huge key, just like you talked about, help you step out of a role that wasn't going to fit you.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: How do you see this play out?
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Or what is it that you're noticing with women that they gravitate towards a certain number or they think, but what is it that you're seeing in them that allows you to go, oof, I don't, I don't think you're on the right track here with your type.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, there's so many different things.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, people always told me I was a three before I took the test because I achieved a lot of things.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: And then the Enneagram showed me that so much is just motivation.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm not motivated to achieve.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: I I don't really like strength finders, I have no woo winning others over.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't walk in a room and figure out what people need and how to present myself.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm just being me.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: I achieve because I want freedom.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's because I grew up um in poverty.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: My dad died when I was little, and there was something in me that was like, I have options.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have freedom.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not ever going through this.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: So, like that's the that's the key thread through my life.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Achievement, achievement is a byproduct of me making sure self-pressed seven, me making sure that that my family and I are okay.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Achievement that happens.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: But what I see with a lot of women, Christian women often are culturally conditioned to identify as Ennegram twos.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: When they have no business identifying Enneagram 2.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: It'll be like the biggest achiever you ever met.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: She'll be like, I'm an Enneagram 2.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: I love to help people.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: So I often will do it, uh, you're not an Enneagram 2 intervention and we dive in.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And the way I use it, whenever I start working with a new client, I have her take the big five in the Enneagram so she can begin to understand herself.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: But just on like a cool little coaching thing, I know, for instance, if I have a call, if I have a new client who's an eight, I am getting on calls with her differently than an Ennegram 2.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: And Enneagram eight or seven, we get on calls, we get down to business.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: There's no chit chat.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: And Ennegram 2, she wants to spend five minutes to hear how my week spends she wants to tell me about her week.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Then we get down to business.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: But even my clients who are doing a lot of hiring in their companies, um, anytime they're hiring, whether they're hiring a an audiologist or they're hiring an attorney for their four firm or whatever they're doing, um, they will, in the interview process, give them big five and Enneagram, and we'll go over it in great detail just to make sure you're you're getting the right people and the right seats on the bus.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really important.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've mentioned it.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: You but have you checked out Six Working Genius at all?
22:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm familiar, but I've never taken it.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, just a little friend-to-friend.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: I think you should explore it.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: It's just another fun layer, and you and I can have a you know another conversation just to chat about it.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: But that has been a piece too to not only figure out the role, but that layer, as we talked about, that overlay, whether it be subtype similar or Myers Briggs, those all tie into better understanding.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Because I know in your coaching of us, for some women, they need to hear slow down and take a break and have a pause.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: And other personality types need to hear, get going.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Here's the direction to go.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Don't second guess it anymore.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Just go, go, go.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Send hearing hearing that and understanding that is really, really invaluable to the coaching process or even understanding exactly who you're coaching.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: So that was actually one of the most intentional parts when I was crafting the curriculum for catalysts this year, because it's the same thing as when I'm writing a book.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to write a book for Enneagram sevens.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to write a book for Enneagram threes.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to, because I'm an aggressive type.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I can't, I can't write a book or write catalyst curriculum every month just for the aggressive types.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always using the Enneagram to make sure this is just as relevant to a nine who maybe is going to take a little longer with everything as it is a three who wants all the gold stars.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: But I think it's helped me as a writer and a coach and as a mastermind leader.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Are you working on a book right now?
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: What are we thinking?
23:41
SPEAKER_00: 27, 28, how long do we have to wait?
23:44
SPEAKER_01: September 2027.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that that'll be here before we know it.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's basically Christmas now.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And it'll be here before we know it.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm wrapping it up now.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: I only have a couple chapters to go.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Has this one been fine and incubating for a while?
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Is it just like the natural next step for you?
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I swore I was done writing books after my last book.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's like that line from The Godfather, like you try to get out and they pull you back in.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: My boy teaches I can never get a movie line right.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: I probably butchered that one.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, but now so you're okay.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: It makes sense to me.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, good.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's really uh I'll just tell you really quickly, my grandfather passed away in August of 23.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Well into his 90s.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And I remember sitting at his funeral going, he lived such a great life.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: He was so happy, he was so energetic.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna make it to 90 something as bad as I feel right now on a day-to-day basis, just like tired and exhausted, all that, just you know, a woman in her late 40s living in this world.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I went on this journey to figure out how do I, how do I get my life back?
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I build my energy back?
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I need to do?
24:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just taking everything I learned and then putting it into a book.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: And it'll be great or not great, I don't know, but I'm really enjoying it as a typical seven.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm really enjoying it.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And you've built community around in the writing of this one.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Am I correct in that?
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of some of the thought process in your Substack and all of that.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been really fun.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: It's odd as an entrepreneur to go, I always write about these topics, but now we're gonna talk about energy and we're gonna talk about health.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna teach you what I'm learning.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I built a Substack just to see if I could build uh a community over there.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's been really great.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: I hear's the place to be these days.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really fun.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: I've watched you do that.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: I think it's really neat.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And along those lines, you've been, I think overall, all the things that I've seen you do over the years, and I got to intercept in your world, and we call it the alleyverse uh behind the scenes.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh just so you know, that's how I like I've been the alleyverse this long, but since 2016 for me.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: And what I love is that your business to me reflects seven energy, a lot of different things.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: But you've done them well.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: And and so for me, it's given me, I've I've felt the permission to do all the things that I want to do, but just do them well and with the excellence and stay in them.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: But the theme for you has been community, whether gathering in person or gathering online, just share a little bit about your heart and that or what it's done for you to stay consistent or keep you in the game, maybe all the years that you have.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I I don't think that's a typical pattern for a seven.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And so when a seven defies that, I think it's worth celebrating and also going, okay, what how did you do this?
26:46
SPEAKER_00: So what's the secret?
26:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, God has been so good to me.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: He's always brought me just who I needed, like to kind of lift my arms up, whether it's a good friend at the right time to give me encouragement or a business partner or somebody to work in my business.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was just talking to my chief of staff this morning in our meeting, and she was saying that her husband always says to her, uh, I can't imagine two women having more fun doing work.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Like this is this is so great.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, I really make it a point to surround myself with women who are positive and who are action takers and who love each other and are real.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have very strict boundaries for women in community.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're gossipy, if you're negative, if you're a downer, if you just want to talk about reality TV and another woman, like you can't hang.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Like you gotta be about good stuff.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: You gotta be driven, you gotta have a calling from the Lord.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Whether that calling from the Lord is to make the best community garden you've ever seen, or knit the best sweaters for penguins, I don't care what it is, but you gotta have something that lights you up.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: So I think the secret for me is I curate community really well.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: I find women who have a light inside of them and go, okay, you're my kind of girl.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk arms.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: And we we just did this catalyst retreat a few weeks ago, and one of the newer girls had met me and she's kind of in my world now.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: And one of the other girls goes, Watch out.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Once you're in Allie's world, you don't ever escape.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: And I just I love women with a little light inside of them.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I want to, I want to help women thrive.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: I found this piece of paper in my office.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: It's from 2010.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: I was at this conference, and she asked us to write down uh what dreams do I want to chase.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: I had written it right here on the top.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: It was from Hotel 71 in Chicago.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And I wrote, bring people together, change lives, build women's lives, share faith, educate, and encourage.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Man.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: And man, oh man, it's 16 years later.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And this has been the driving force of everything I've done, and somehow I'm still doing it, and I want to do it 20 years from now.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: But I think for all women, community is key, but it has to be the right community.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: You have to curate it well because bad apples are a real thing.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And being in the wrong community, that'll destroy everything.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: You got to be in a community of action takers who have light inside of them and want good for for themselves and other people.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Ali, because we ad lib this, do you know I have like two hours more of questions and things I want to say?
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But I am I'm here.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, holy spirit, I'll be tie this in.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And I I think I want to end a little bit on this note because this is a next step.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: You bring up something so important.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: And one, I am I'm really inspired because I too in 2016, when I went to an event and started this, I kept the notebook of all the ideas that I wrote that I had no grid for, no context.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: It was from the Lord, Holy Spirit, just writing these things.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: And I looked back maybe three years ago and I thought, I'm doing this.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: And so I just think about what it is going to be like in 16 years.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: And that just inspires me so much.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: But the key here is community.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: And that has been both a pain point and it's been the catalyst to use your word and pun attended.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: It's been the catalyst for so many things.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: I've had to learn boundaries the hard way.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's been such the school of hard knocks.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: And I know that you could probably teach for hours on how to do this, but maybe what's three things a woman who wants to build a healthy community, or maybe just find one to jump into, what do they need to look for?
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, looking for other people who bring the light are really important.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes that feels tricky, or sometimes you have to work through some weeds to get to that.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the most important thing sounds it sounds dumb at first because it's like, if you want to be a good friend, be a good friend, which is it's so trite.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: But you really want to do a bit of a post-mortem on past relationships and maybe communities you've been involved with, what worked, what didn't work, what did you bring to it, maybe what shouldn't you have brought to it, and really be honest about what that looked like in the past.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: What kind of communities work for me, what kind of communities don't work for me?
31:28
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really helpful.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think understanding that is going to be the main key.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: The second is making sure you're in a well-vetted community.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Do you like the leader?
31:39
SPEAKER_01: Do you respect the leader?
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Is the community getting behind something that is helpful to the world?
31:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, don't be in a community that's called the world is going down the tubes.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, be in being wholehearted any dress.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Simple, but good point.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Like be careful about who you hang out with because science has shown that whoever you are around, including digitally, you will catch the emotions.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: You will a hundred percent catch how they're feeling.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's most important.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: And then know that you're gonna feel last thing, you're gonna feel cringy, you're gonna feel awkward.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: All of your internal weaknesses will get those buttons will get pushed of nobody's gonna like me.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Everybody already knows each other, everybody likes each other more than they like me.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: You just gotta get through that.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: But once you get through that, it'll be great.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Just keep putting yourself out there.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And with that, maybe do some counseling so you can work through your stuff.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: And 100%.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that goes without saying we all should be in therapy.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: I totally agree.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: I love this.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Before I send you off here, even though I have a million questions still, I do have to point out I'm really impressed by your hidden Mickey feature in the background.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: It's really incredible.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: I do, I really love Disney.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh Walt Disney is my entrepreneurial hero.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: And so I do have quite the collection of mouse ears.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: And why not put them on disco balls?
33:10
SPEAKER_00: I okay, so I don't think I realized that it was the idea that Walt Disney was your entrepreneurial hero because yes, I love learning about his life.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And there's other people like that where I'm just like, tell me more because how did you?
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And that's amazing.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: And can I be like you?
33:29
SPEAKER_01: So Disneyland shouldn't have worked.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: He mortgaged his house to do it.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: It was a disaster.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Women's high heels were melting into the cement on day one.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: He's amazing.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: And the commitment to excellence is amazing.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: And you can have fun.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's perfect for seven.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: It is.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, why don't you?
33:46
SPEAKER_00: We've talked around it, we've talked about it.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Give us the insight about Catalyst.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: And it was newer for 2026.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: I was so excited to be one of the first to know.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: It was a no-brainer when that email came in.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, not even thinking, done.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm signed up.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: I hope we get put in a good circle.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: It has worked out in my favor.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm loving it.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Give us a little bit of that insight scoop for in case a friend's listening going, oh, I want to know more.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll tell you the reason it started originally, that my first idea for it, because it's a year-long mastermind.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: It's super affordable.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be able to help a lot of women, right?
34:23
SPEAKER_01: And I mentioned before that I take some of my clients on client trips a few times a year.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: And we have an ongoing group chat all the time.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: We pray for each other, we talk about goals.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: It's just the women that are in my client group, they help each other's ministries and they give each other business advice and they coach each other stuff.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: They're amazing.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: And I thought I just wish other women had that.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: And that was my initial thought for Catalyst.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: What if I have a year-long curriculum where I am teaching every month?
34:53
SPEAKER_01: But as you know, it's short.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like a 10-minute audio and a quick playbook because we have enough information.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Like Claude gives us a lot of information.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Information's everywhere.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: We need implementation.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: We need to actually get it done.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's get over what's stopping us.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Let's get it done.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: So there's curriculum every month, but it takes like 30 minutes.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: How long do you take on everything, Amy?
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 30 minutes and 45 topics.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: But it's like it's it's high value.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: Like you get stuff done, right?
35:19
SPEAKER_01: It's not busy work, which I love.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: But and then I'm placing women inside.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: We have 100 women in Catalyst this year, placing women in their circles.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: And we're taking everything, your personality, your business, what you want.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: And Ashley and I prayerfully place everybody in circles.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Really, like I know who you're with because we placed you there together.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, we do retreats.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: That's that's optional, but it starts every January.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: We'll open it up for applications for new members in September.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: I am most excited about Catalyst out of everything I've done.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm really focused in on Catalyst for the next at least 10 or 15 years.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: The energy is there, and I can tell.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: The energy's there.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: The women are loving it.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for you, what can you say you've been able to do because of being a catalyst member this year?
36:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really am surprised because it's not like I'm not doing this for my group of coaches and that I work, but it's just different when you step in with peers.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a different kind of conversation.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: It's a place where you can process a decision that you feel accountable to, but there's also not pressure from.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I sit in and kind of the I get to do the coaching on the group calls, but I don't feel like I have to wear the coaching hat.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: It just can flow.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And so I get energized from it, but then I can receive it back.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: But it's been a beautiful group of networking and encouragement, and we're all hiring each other for different things or being on each other's podcasts and encouraging.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: I honestly, I just part of it was like, oh yeah, it's Allie's thing.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing this.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: My expectations were low, not because of the quality, but because I felt like I don't need more friends.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: I already have a lot.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't need more business help.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, I'm like, I don't think this year would have gone the way it has without the group and without that encouragement.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, that again, I just didn't know I needed it.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: That was kind of prideful of me.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Um every leader needs needs a team pouring into her because you pour out so much into your community.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I mean, I have a coach, I meet with every Wednesday morning.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you, I think the the secret with the circles is everybody to be a part of Catalyst, you have to go through an interview process.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: And so we're checking like, does this person have that light in him?
37:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, we take that really seriously.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what's really great is it all feels equal.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: And when we're doing our check-ins, the fact that we can be serious about it, but there's also grace involved that both the intention that the group's giving because of your leadership and your teaching and helping us with soul care and transitions and future self and all the things.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: We're all talking the same language and just being on the same page.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: And no one one person has to lead.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're having too good of a time for sure.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for putting me in that group.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: It makes my day.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: This is great.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: I love I love hearing about it.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me on too.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: This is so fun.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: If you ever want more Anygram Seven talk, I'm your girl.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Allie.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: This conversation was so fun.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: I loved being able to just talk and sit down and hear more about your life.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you, friend.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Happy to be here.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.