Latest / Auto Collabs / Frameworks that Free You with Glenn Pasch

Transcript

Frameworks that Free You with Glenn Pasch · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  So Glenn Pasch is one of the very few people in the automotive industry that a- a- actually has been to my house. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs Kyle, you're one of them, right? I pr- Cirilo, we'll see what happens.
• 0:18
  But Glenn, in typical fashion, was going on vacation somewhere in, I think it was Niagara Falls, New York, and he sent me a text like, "Hey, would love to stop by and say hi," 'cause he's always thinking of that person- personal relationship building.
• 0:29
  Came over with his wife, his sons, had a beautiful evening, and, um, you know, Glenn is just the same person regardless of where he is in professional life, personal life, and, uh, he's obviously someone I would trust to be in my house with my family, which isn't everybody.
• 0:42
  No doubt. I think, I think Glenn, when I was leaving the dealership, when he found out, and we had a, you know, we knew each other beforehand.
• 0:49
  But I think he was, like, the third person after my mom and one other person that called me and was like, "Oh, man, I'm excited for you. Can't wait to see what you do. I'm here. Let me know. I've started businesses.
• 1:02
  I'd be glad to help if anything goes crazy. Like, there... It's not just me, but there's a lot of other people in automotive that are here for you." Uh, and so he's just...
• 1:12
  And he's done that a few times, and it's normally random calls and when you're least expecting it, and then he never asks anything. It's just a bunch of give, and that's...
• 1:21
  He's, he does that throughout automotive, which is incredible. I, um, am indebted to him because he's the first guy who gave me a shot. Really? What do you mean by that?
• 1:37
  He's like, he's like- So- "Well, Paul and Kyle, that's a cool story, but watch this" To moderate a room on Clubhouse right here- Y- yeah, to moderate a room on... No. [laughs] So w- let's go back.
• 1:46
  I'll spare the, the details, and I'll just get to the TLDR version of it. Thank you.
• 1:50
  But basically, when I was overcoming my demons and said, "I need to meet other successful people, and I need to know them," I wrote his and his brother's name down in the, in a book and took, took a shot.
• 2:05
  And they were putting on a conference called- Metaphorically... AutoCon, t- AutoCon 2011 or something like that. And I, man, I was so freaking nervous, and I applied.
• 2:16
  And they were like, "Never heard of this guy before, but let's give him a chance," and- So you literally have known Glenn for 12 years? Yes. 11 years? Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:25
  And but it, it just validates everything that you guys were saying, and I wanted to just get that in there and say it, it's absolutely true.
• 2:31
  He, he's never looking for anything in return, but when you ask him a question, he immediately has an answer, and I think that's just so unique. And I...
• 2:40
  And, and so, uh, just always grateful for any time we get to cha- the chance to chat with him. Well, hope you enjoy our conversation with Glenn Pasch.
• 2:49
  [upbeat music] Glenn, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I hope we can get through this interview- [laughs]... without breaking down in laughter or referring to ourselves in the third person.
• 3:07
  Um- I hope we can't make it through it, actually. [laughs] I don't think- That'd be better for the interview... I think we all know what's going on here. I know. That's not gonna happen.
• 3:14
  But Glenn, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate it. No, thanks for having me. This is gonna be fun. Okay, so you're somebody who I would consider,
• 3:24
  um, a, a host, a person, a leader who knows how to ask good questions.
• 3:29
  And, um, you know, when, when you started talking about, like, you're in charge, now what, which was, you know, kind of your trajectory over the last, I don't know, probably three years when that first started kind of hitting the scene.
• 3:41
  Mm-hmm. You seem, you seem really, uh, focused and obsessed almost with asking the right questions. Why is that? I think that a lot of people, they get stuck in the classroom, so think of it that way. Or you're stuck in
• 3:59
  listening to a, a, a podcast, or you're re- read a book, and you get stuck with a bunch of ideas that are written down.
• 4:06
  And if you're not asking the right questions of, "Okay, well, what do I do with this information or this data," then it just sits there. And then, you know, people get frustrated that nothing's changing.
• 4:17
  And so I think that's, uh, the essence of a good leader, is not to tell people what to do. It's to ask them the question so they end up finding the path I want them to go on, but they find the path themselves.
• 4:32
  And so my best trait, or I think one of the best traits of good leaders, is asking questions that you may already know the answer to, but it's not my idea. It's yours.
• 4:44
  So you're saying ask a question in some instances that you already know the answer to because you want the other person to work through it? Yes.
• 4:51
  So, uh, so for example, if you're coaching somebody and you don't get the results that you want, you know, a lot of times people will default or some leaders will default to just say, "Well, Michael, you know what to do.
• 5:02
  Paul, you know what to do," or, "Hey, how many times have I told you to do this?" But if I sat there and I said, "Well, Kyle, let me ask you a question. What do you remember from training about X?" Hmm.
• 5:14
  I'm gonna unlock where the disconnect is. Is it that Kyle forgets what they were- he's supposed to do? Is it he's half and half? Or is it that Kyle knows exactly what to do, but Kyle's choosing not to do it?
• 5:28
  So it's a completely different reason. But if my default is always, "Well, Kyle doesn't know what to do," and that's all I say to them, I, I disconnect.
• 5:36
  But if he tells me this, then it's easier for me to go, "Oh, here's where we're going." But again, it's, it's that idea of they're leading the conversation even though I know where I want you to go.
• 5:48
  It's like a therapist. Well, it's the ultimate, it, it's the ultimate maintenance of control in a, in a positive way. For example, you know, the way I see it, 'cause Glenn and I, I mean, you and I have had-...
• 6:01
  tons of conversations l- just after hours, weekends, you know. I'll, I'll ask you your input on certain things. And, and I've experienced what you're talking about here first hand from you.
• 6:12
  And w- what always interests me, what I always tend to pick up on is if you can deploy that type of leadership style, it's because- Mm-hmm... you have confidence that you've also created the, the parameters within
• 6:28
  w- which the person will operate. Right. And most people are afraid of this because they have absolutely no control.
• 6:34
  They have no clarity on what they want, what their business looks like, where are the walls, what are the parameters, what's the context.
• 6:41
  And so I, I, I don't know what your thoughts are on that, but I feel like that, that needs to be key to this whole infrastructure, is you need to have clarity as the leader on the context with which they'll operate.
• 6:53
  Yeah. I, I, I, I agree. I think I've been very lucky throughout my life, you know, being in certain situations. You know, I played music, you know, in school, and there's a framework to that. There's sports.
• 7:07
  What did you play, by the way? I pl- [laughs] I played trumpet. My, uh, my grandfather owned, uh, the largest music store in central New Jersey, so when fourth grade came around, you had to ha- pick an instrument.
• 7:20
  So I went into the store and I picked whatever was easiest to carry back and forth, 'cause I had to walk almost a mile to school. [laughs] So, um, you know- So you picked the flute. Uphill both ways. No flute.
• 7:29
  You picked the trumpet. No, my br- Brian, my brother Brian picked, uh, clarinet. I picked trumpet.
• 7:35
  And my older brother, I think he was first, and he, he picked a, I think he picked a trombone, and I said, "That's way too big," so- That's a mess. That thing's-... we went, we went for trumpet.
• 7:43
  [laughs] And did the three of you, like, learn the, that little song from the first episode of Star Wars? You know, ba, ba, da, ba, ba, da. Yeah. [laughs] Ba, ba, da, da, ba. We're actually in that image.
• 7:53
  [laughs] We're in the back there. We're playing that song. I could kind of see Brian rocking the clarinet on that song. I know, I know. [laughs] A little bit of Benny Goodman-esque there, he goes.
• 8:01
  Um, but to- Sorry, I couldn't, I, I had to know what instrument Glenn Patch played. [laughs] Good choices. No, that, that...
• 8:06
  But when you, when you are in that or you played sports, or I did a lot of work in hospitality and, y- you know, I was an actor for a long time.
• 8:15
  They, there are barriers and there are people, and I, I remember this clearly, having a director have a discussion with an actor at one time.
• 8:24
  And he said, "All of this, you're telling me all these things that I have to do when I have to do it. You're, you know, you're, uh, you know, restricting my creativity." And he said, "Actually, it's counterintuitive.
• 8:35
  The more you have that framework, the freer you can be." Hmm. Yeah. Because now you're not thinking about it. You can actually sit and respond. So if you think about- It's like jazz... to your point- It's like jazz. Man.
• 8:48
  It's exactly it. So it, the more that you have in, let's, you know, in automotive, the more processes you have or the more guardrails you have or frameworks, then I don't have to think about what should I do next.
• 9:01
  I can just be, and then I really can run fast. So, like sports, if I know that, on this play, that's where I have to go, I can just accelerate and everything f- it frees me up.
• 9:13
  So, so to your point, Michael, the more that you have these, as a leader, you need to provide that structure for your, for your people.
• 9:21
  That's why it's important to have all of their roles and re- responsibilities documented, so when you hire someone, you can say, "Kyle, can you do this?" And they go, "Yes, I can," or, "No, that's not my style."
• 9:32
  Saves time, but now we're all training off the same playbook, and hopefully we're unshackling Kyle to be able to run fast. And so his whole personality can be delivered to this.
• 9:44
  The problem is, automotive is such a personality-driven business.
• 9:49
  We think if you have a great personality, you don't need the structure, instead of understanding you could be even better with that, all of what you bring to the table with your personality if you had the structure.
• 10:02
  Yeah.
• 10:02
  You know, one of the things that I, as I'm listening to you and as I kind of, like, watch you around automotive spaces, I, I notice that you have a particular passion for just, uh, allowing leaders to lead better across automotive.
• 10:19
  Like, it's a, it's a broad-reaching desire that you have that's, that's, like, deeply rooted in who you are.
• 10:28
  And, uh, you know, when I found out that, that the majority of your adult career prior to automotive was in hospitality, I was like, oh, my goodness.
• 10:38
  Absolute straight line to what I, or to what I see you, like, i- imploring people in automotive, uh, t- with how they lead, how they operate their businesses. And
• 10:49
  so, like, I wanna hear about, as you transitioned into the auto space, what about as you came into auto, learned it more and then, and then sunk your teeth in, like, created this desire to have a, a focus in how people are leading or operating their businesses more than just, you know, because you've got PCG and you've got the marketing side.
• 11:11
  But you, you have- Mm-hmm... a much broader, you know, focus in, in how to care for the industry. How did that shift come about as you moved industries and, and kind of learned automotive?
• 11:23
  Well, automotive, it was more the marketing side.
• 11:25
  Originally, when I, before I joined with Brian in the agency side, I was building, trying to build a business that would go in and focus on customer service and process and organizational structure and discipline and things like that.
• 11:39
  And then we pivoted into joining him, and that's really what I did initially. It wasn't that I loved marketing or really even understood it. I was helping him build the infrastructure for his company. Hmm.
• 11:50
  And so I learned the marketing side by side. And the marketing made sense up to a point. Like, I'm not this analytics junkie, right? Yeah. He is.
• 12:00
  He loves it, as we can see now with, you know, the GA4 Council and putting, "We're gonna systematize all of these metrics."Data to me doesn't do anything unless I know I can do something with it, and that's where I saw in automotive there was tons and tons of data which bogged people down or the ignoring of data because, well, this is the way we did it.
• 12:22
  Um, but my brain just sees, uh, puzzles, meaning when I see flow, workflow, and how people interact with each other, it's always about the customer. That's all I's ever cared about because that came from hospitality.
• 12:36
  It's always serving the customer.
• 12:38
  So when I came into automotive and went into the dealerships, even before I joined Brian, I started working with a dealership 'cause he said, you know, "No one's gonna respect you in automotive if you haven't worked with dealers."
• 12:49
  So of course, I went to a dealer and said, "You need customer service training." And he's like, "I don't know what that means," but gave me a shot. [laughs] And people at first, of course, pushed on it.
• 13:00
  But later on, some salespeople came up and said, "You, you make sense. We really should be doing something like that." So automotive and hospitality are very similar. Every day is different. You could be swamped.
• 13:11
  You could be dead. You have products. You have structures, but it's people. And, and that's what I love of watching is, is developing teams, playing the game. Um, and, and leaders just... I just want people to...
• 13:26
  I want to help people be better leaders or better coaches to their teams because that's how they're gonna accelerate.
• 13:33
  And at the end of the day, they're going to take care of the customers, which means they're gonna generate more revenue for themselves. So that's really what I see. And it frustrates me because I can't stop seeing it.
• 13:44
  [laughs] Yeah. You know? My, my son now works in a restaurant, and now when we go out to eat, he goes, "Oh, I see everything now." Yeah, right. "I see how they should be doing it." That's a terrible place to be.
• 13:53
  It's hell. [laughs] Right? [laughs] And he goes, "I just see it now." And I go, "Yeah, well, you're not gonna be able to unsee it."
• 13:58
  And so for me, when I go into it, it's r- exciting when I see it running really well and flowing really well, and you... But I just can't help seeing, "Well, they could do that a little better," or, "That's that."
• 14:09
  It's just the way my brain sees things. Do you think this is why you're such a good cook, because you need... Y- you see all of the ingredients needed in order to- How do you know he's a good cook?
• 14:22
  Do you not follow your guests on social media? [laughs] Just because. This guy posts- Just because I have pictures. This guy posts all the food all the time. Michael. Michael. It's unbelievable.
• 14:30
  This, this man- Just because- We exchange recipes... it appears to taste good on the internet- That's right... doesn't mean that it tastes good. No, no, I... No. He sent me recipes. They, they actually taste good.
• 14:40
  [laughs] They actually taste good. Also, we have to be clear about this. Like, Glenn is very good about his social media etiquette and doesn't post f- photos of food on LinkedIn. It's only on Facebook. Oh.
• 14:50
  And Paul doesn't even know what- Nah. Okay. Yes, yes... how to spell Facebook, so that's just- Okay, gotcha. Okay. [laughs] That, that makes more sense. But, but do you think- [laughs]
• 14:59
  I, I think about similarities between hobby of enjoy cooking delicious meals and the business workplace because you're one of the few, I, I think, that can actually point out logically.
• 15:14
  Like, there, there's a great deal of common sense, I find, in h- in your approach- Mm-hmm... a, a great deal of logic. You say...
• 15:21
  I, I mean, for example, what you just said about leadership, you and I both know full well that first you need to be able to lead yourself, right? And you have a lot of discussion about that.
• 15:31
  How can I, how can I implore these others to do something that I'm not willing to at least do for myself? Mm-hmm. How do I lead and discipline myself?
• 15:39
  And so I, I, I find, you know, as you teach and as I w- lean in, that tends to be a common thread. You, you, you, you're very good at articulating, "Here's all the ingredients for success.
• 15:50
  Now let's go do something with it." Yeah, I, I, I, I look at a little... I don't know if I'm... I, I think I'm a, a, a good cook, so Paul, yes. Um, but it's more- I don't doubt it, by the way... it, it's more that...
• 16:02
  My wife always says this to me, like, "I'm happiest taking care of other people." Mm-hmm. She goes, "You love making sure everything's together, like you're happy.
• 16:14
  What f- You're uncomfortable if you have to sit there and do nothing." Mm-hmm. Like, you wanna be part of the team. If somebody brings you over to their house, you wanna help them.
• 16:23
  It's not to say, "Oh, get out of the way. I'm better." It's more, "I need something to do." So I think my approach always is is that team effort. I try... I've, I've,
• 16:34
  I learned this from, again, in hospitality at this one restaurant who, one of the mentors said... H- And here, here he is the owner, and he's getting water for people or doing things.
• 16:43
  He goes, "My job's not more important than anybody else's. It's we all have to do it to be successful." And I always took that away. Like, titles mean nothing to me. It's about, are we take...
• 16:55
  Our, our mission is to take care of our customers, so whatever has to happen, we're gonna take care of our customers. And so you have to be willing. Not that you're showing off. You have... You, you...
• 17:06
  I think the biggest problem is sometimes some leaders push people out of the way to go take care of something, thinking they're helping- Mm...
• 17:15
  when in reality they're causing a disconnect because when you're not there, the, those people are not able to do their job. So you have to do your job.
• 17:24
  The further up you go away from the front lines, you're more responsible to coach and train than you are to do.
• 17:31
  Like, that becomes your job, and I think that's a disconnect for some leaders because they still wanna be in the game. You know, they wanna be part- It's really tough... they wanna show. Hmm? It's really tough.
• 17:42
  I mean, that reminds me- Yes... of a scene. Um, it was... Where was it? Uh, I think it was in Saving... No, no, Band of Brothers. Have you ever seen- Yeah... the Band of Brothers? Mm-hmm.
• 17:51
  And you have, uh, Lieutenant Winters, who is one of the main characters. He got promoted, and his men had to attack a position, and he came up with a strategy.
• 17:59
  And something went wrong, and he went to run, like grab his gun and go help. And the general grabbed him, like, by the neck and said, "No, you have to stay back here," right?
• 18:08
  Because if you go up there-You can no longer see everything that's going on, and we need you to pay attention to everything else Yes Uh, you know, uh, it makes me think back to the beginning of the conversation when you were talking about the framework that kind of frees you up.
• 18:21
  And you talk about acting, you know, you brought up jazz music. Mm-hmm.
• 18:23
  What are some of the frameworks in automotive that you think need to be in place, or what is like one or two frameworks that you feel like if that's in place, it allows people to move freely, um, and serve other people?
• 18:35
  Let's talk about the sales department. Well, I think every, every aspect... So I try to make it a, a little bit simple. So if you say to yourself and work backwards, saying, "How do I want my customers to feel?"
• 18:46
  So in your case, salesperson. When, a- after they leave, an- after that sales interaction, whether they buy or not, how do they feel? Uh, what do we want them to feel?
• 18:57
  Then we say, okay, well, what does that salesperson have to do to generate those feelings? And then we're building a process.
• 19:02
  So I think for everyone in terms of sales, what are the roles and responsibilities of that individual, that job? See, and so again, w- some of the problems in- You know what? Wait, wait...
• 19:15
  a lot of businesses- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 'Cause people are gonna miss this, and I have to point this out. You're about to go down a thing, and if, if I don't get back to this... Okay. I wanna- Go ahead...
• 19:24
  I wanna draw this line between, I think a lot of times what we ask about what we want for customers is we ask, "What do we want them to do?"
• 19:33
  Now, we might not ask that in particular, but we, we are asking ourselves the framework of sales, the framework of a job responsibility, the framework of how someone does business is what do, what do we want them to do, which the answer is buy a car, right?
• 19:48
  And you led with a totally different question, which is- Mm-hmm... how do we want them to feel when they leave? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Leading with that is like a- It's a different framework... that's a totally- Show off...
• 20:02
  different framework. That, that enters the whole conversation- [laughs]... from a different perspective than what do we want them to do. It's how do we want- Right... them to feel, um, which- Mm-hmm...
• 20:11
  you know, and if anyone kind of follows Paul over the last few years, which is directly related to an overall business's brand.
• 20:18
  But, like, that entrance into a framework totally readjusts how you do a job description or a pay plan- Sure... or anything- Mm-hmm...
• 20:27
  along those lines by just asking the first question differently back to how you ask questions, right? [laughs] Right.
• 20:34
  So, so when you do that, then you go into, well, there are actions, and then actions turn into a process. Um, the key is it's for that role. We have a tendency to create
• 20:50
  job descriptions or positions about the person that's in it, right? Uh, especially when you go up further. It's the general manager. Michael's the general manager. No, he's not.
• 20:59
  Michael's fulfilling the role of the general manager, which means Michael follows these roles and responsibilities and tasks and duties on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.
• 21:09
  If he goes on vacation, someone has to step in to do that role- Mm... in order for the machine to keep going forward. The key is I have to train somebody to be able to do that.
• 21:22
  But if not, we make it Michael's the keeper of the secrets. When Michael leaves, no one knows what to do. So if you have the roles and responsibilities of a salesperson written out, we train on them.
• 21:34
  Now, when I hire, I can say, "This is what we do." The role of the general sales manager or desk manager or F&I manager or general manager, all of those roles have to be documented, and then it's easy to transition.
• 21:47
  So where there's usually a breakdown is that promotion. We do a very good job of, uh, of training salespeople in automotive. The, a lot of that's written out.
• 21:57
  But when you're promoted to a desk manager or a, a F&I manager, is there a handbook? Is there something written out that says, "Here's your duties"?
• 22:05
  Or is it, "Ah, go trail Paul for a little while, and they'll tell you what to do"? And then it's all the versions of the telephone game versus, no, here's the handbook of to be a general sales manager.
• 22:18
  Here's what we do here. Here's how we desk. Here's how we do this. Here's how we do this. You're gonna be a general manager. Well, in our group, this is what the general manager does.
• 22:27
  That takes away the personality of, well, when Paul's running it, we do this. When Michael's here, it's this. Uh, and then, well, Paul decided to change something, so I don't even know what the hell's going on.
• 22:39
  That to me are the structures. If you start working on those pillars... And it doesn't have to take forever. Literally, the general manager over lunch one day could just say, "What would be the...
• 22:52
  If I, if I, as general sales man- general manager, the only thing I had to do in this dealership was be a salesperson, how would I map out my day?"
• 23:01
  And just map it out and say, "Okay, what skills do I think I would need as a salesperson?" Dink, dink, dink, dink, dink. Great. That's a starting point. Get all the salespeople doing that. Right.
• 23:11
  If I had to be a general sales manager, if I had to be a desk manager, what do I need to do? Write it out.
• 23:17
  And it's not, oh, everything has to be done today if you didn't have it, but if you said in six months we could have a little playbook for all of this, then we're all singing off the same song sheet.
• 23:27
  We're all playing off the same playbook, and more importantly, as you get promoted, there's a handbook for you, and here's the processes, and here's what you have to do when you're this, versus you're just promoted, you're guessing, you're looking over your shoulder hoping you don't get yelled at.
• 23:44
  Yeah, because- I, I just think the further up you go, the less training there is in this industry. I'm going back to jazz because the- [laughs]... jazz musicians- Because... right,
• 23:54
  when you're a jazz musician, you are, like, the most accomplished of a musician. Mm-hmm. You don't get into jazz and be like, "Eh, jazz is kind of... I play whatever I want when I want to," right?
• 24:05
  Jazz is like, that's the one where you gotta know where everybody else is at. You gotta know- Mm-hmm...
• 24:10
  when he breaks off the lead, then I'm coming in, and when he's moving those, when those, those progressions, I dri-... You know?
• 24:17
  And it's, it's this orchestrated e- en- entity, and you have to know every, e- every scale and every piece.
• 24:25
  If you don't know music, it's like-Being able to play jazz well h- comes from the most experienced musicians, not the, oh, you know, they just throw some notes together and it sounds good. And I think that- Right...
• 24:39
  what you're saying is, is we need to be playing jazz instead of church music. Nothing against church music, but that's like- Yeah... one, four, five, one. You know what I mean? [laughs] Yeah. It's country music.
• 24:49
  No, and I, and I think she, she- Country music. We'll go with that, right?
• 24:52
  [laughs] When, when it happens, when you install this, I'm working with a group right now, when we just did those couple exercises, just the salesperson's day, whatever, and I got this one person's day organized, and it was such a refreshing and, and I felt really good about it.
• 25:08
  He called me up and he said, "You know what? I've been doing this for 25 years." He goes, "This is the first time," because the store we worked at, salespeople knew what they'd to do, the desk managers knew what to do.
• 25:20
  He knew how to interact with it because he didn't have to be there to wonder what's going on because he had mapped it out. He said, "It's the first time in 25 years that I feel in control of my day." Wow.
• 25:31
  And I said, "Wow." He goes, "I usually pull up to the dealership, take a breath, open up my laptop as soon as I get in," and he goes, "I feel like I'm putting on the fire suit, what fires are going on?"
• 25:42
  And he goes, "For the first time, I had a five-minute conversation with the general manager. They got off, knew exactly how to get the day started."
• 25:52
  He goes, "Now I could sit down and start doing work that I had to do to move this forward." And he said, "I just felt a weight off of my shoulders." Mm.
• 26:01
  And I said, "Because you put the processes in place, people now know what to do, and more importantly, you know what they should be doing, and you don't even have to be in the building to know what they're supposed to doing."
• 26:13
  He goes, "I never thought about it that way." Mm. So good. Let me ask you this. Um, as I'm listening to you talk about documentation and process- Mm-hmm... look, I, I couldn't agree more.
• 26:26
  Like, it, it just, everything needs to be documented. Everything needs to be documented. But in so doing, how do you make sure that it doesn't become robotic? How do you, how do you document nuance, right?
• 26:39
  How do you, how do you- Great question... make it so that person filling in the role, right? Mm-hmm.
• 26:44
  If I'm the GM and I have, and I'm here to fulfill roles and responsibilities, there's so much nuance, politics, different variations of the playing field, peop- you know, like you said earlier, playing to different personality types so that they can learn more.
• 27:00
  How do you document for that? How do you train on that? I don't know if there's documentation other than giving them some education on people's, you know, learning profiles or communication.
• 27:11
  Some of that just comes with experience. I think it's...
• 27:17
  The more, I, I believe the more that you're comfortable in the framework, the more you relax into your personality, the more you're aware and you can react versus y- you, you can't respond to something and be thinking in your head at the same time.
• 27:32
  There's a disconnect. But if I'm very comfortable in what at least the process is. Now, hopefully, and this is where, again,
• 27:40
  we have to be very clear about this, no matter what position i- you're fulfilling, you're on someone else's team, right? So if you're a salesperson, you're on the general sales manager's team, so to speak.
• 27:52
  If I'm a desk manager, general sales manager, I'm on the GM's team. If I'm a GM, I'm on the dealer's team, right? They, and it, and the dealer's on the 20 groups team or something.
• 28:00
  Like, there's always someone that's holding you accountable or asking. That's that person that, again, part of their job is inspecting what that person's doing who's on your team and helping guide that situation.
• 28:12
  So if there's a chaotic situation or something that was not handled correctly, or you followed the process but you sort of bumbled your presenting it to them or your coach, well, then it's my job to coach you, to give you feedback and build those skills up so the next time it happens you go, "Oh, I remember.
• 28:31
  I, I, I gotta learn." So there, it's that constant learning. So I think sometimes we, we potentially overthink things and try to make everything perfect before we go, right?
• 28:41
  So very similar, I'm looking at Seth Godin's book, and we've talked about this. Same thing with the, uh, innovation stack because we have to. You know, his was, "Hey, you gotta have a ship date. We gotta go."
• 28:51
  So same thing. I can only give you so much of the processes and you gotta stumble and figure it out yourself, but I, my job is to not let you hang out there on your own or leave you hanging.
• 29:03
  I have to be there and coach you through some of those nuances and situations that are gonna be subtleties. But a lot of that is just experience. Um, you know,
• 29:14
  the w- I look back at what was going on, you know, 25, 30 years ago and to where I am now, and, i- the things I take for granted back then, you, "Oh, uh, uh," but you only get there because- Mm-hmm...
• 29:27
  you, you've fallen on your face a million times, and you've had some good mentors who are gonna pick you up, dust you off, and smack you in the head and go, "Didn't I tell you not to run into the wall?"
• 29:36
  And that's pretty much it. Geez. Well, uh, let, let me just say this in closing. I, um, I, I never have so much fun learning everything I don't know- [laughs]... except for when I'm with you.
• 29:51
  [laughs] Glen, I wanna thank you so much for joining us on Auto Collabs. It's always, always a pleasure to hang out with you and get to spend some time. Thank you. Thank you.
• 29:59
  And, uh, I cannot wait for your guys' event that's coming up. I know this is probably gonna be before, so, uh, looking forward to being a part of that as well, so I can...
• 30:07
  Like I said, I'm looking forward to wishing you guys nothing but success with this. [upbeat music] All right. That was our conversation with the man Glen Pasch.
• 30:19
  We're always grateful for the chances we get to, to speak with him because he always goes...
• 30:25
  I mean, you ask a question and, and sometimes, I don't know if you two find this, you ask a question, you think you might know where they're gonna go with it-And he goes to that place and then says, "Hey, maybe go, maybe think bigger," and he takes you deeper and deeper.
• 30:40
  And it's just, it's the right balance.
• 30:42
  Kyle, I loved your, your, your analogy, your comparison to jazz because it's the right balance of tactic, technical, but also with, with a whole lot of feeling and just practicality.
• 30:54
  Um, so lots of, lots of takeaways for me from Glenn. Well, I, I... So I've been, I think I've interviewed him on a couple podcasts and, and been live with him at a, a couple events and, uh, even been on his podcast.
• 31:08
  And my goal, because I know he does, he asks the right questions, too. When, when we say that, like- For sure... go listen to the You're In Charge podcast, encourage you to do it, because he just digs in.
• 31:19
  He actually did it for Paul and I when we were on his podcast. And we came off the podcast and we were like, "Well, goodness, I guess we gotta rethink life at this point."
• 31:27
  [laughs] "I didn't realize that about what we're doing." You know? [laughs] "I didn't realize I was this good." [laughs] Oh. Well. [laughs] That's it.
• 31:33
  Well, what, what I love about it is, well, what I've been trying to do is I've been trying to find the question to ask him that, like, kinda makes him pause for a second. Mm-hmm.
• 31:42
  And I think that the, that the reality of a great question asker, and you, you alluded to this, m- uh, Michael, in the, in the podcast, is that a person that has the capacity to ask really great questions has asked it of themselves first.
• 31:56
  And so it is hard to kinda, like, quote, unquote- It's good... "stump Glenn"- It's good...
• 32:00
  not because he just has the perfect answer for everything, but he's been really studious about his approach on the whole of life, especially business.
• 32:09
  Uh, and it comes out in the way that he communicates and cares for the automotive community. I really appreciate that mentality that he brought when we started by talking about, um, the frameworks that free you up.
• 32:20
  You get the framework right, and then you're freed up to move within that, how it tied to the jazz music, um, and then just really how it plays out throughout the rest of what he does for a living.
• 32:28
  And I think we can all take a lot of cues from that in whatever we're doing, whether we're working in a dealership or an industry partner, thinking about establishing the macro framework, right?
• 32:37
  He used the example of, like, how do I want pe- someone, a customer to feel when they walk out, right? Let's establish the framework around that, and then we'll reverse engineer it.
• 32:45
  So, um, we hope that this helps you maybe establish a little bit of that framework for yourself today, regardless of w- what industry you're in or what you're doing. And thanks for spending a little time with us today.
• 32:55
  So on behalf of Michael Cirillo, Kyle Mountsier, and myself, this is Auto Collabs. We'll see you next time.
• 33:00
  Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U dot com.
• 33:13
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 33:20
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? [laughs] Are we rolling yet?
• 33:39
  Not yet.