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Changing lives for the Justice Impacted after prison- Jay Jordan · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
• 0:07
  In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
• 0:10
  fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
• 0:13
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 0:15
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
• 0:20
  These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
• 0:22
  Sad. There's some humor, but
• 0:25
  hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
• 0:27
  help you knock down some of the prisons you built up in your own
• 0:30
  mind. It's where you come for what
• 0:38
  happens when your worst fear becomes your reality.
• 0:40
  How do you adapt, survive. Overcome.
• 0:42
  Set yourself free. OK, so if you're all playing the
• 0:45
  board game at home, we did a part one here with Jay Jordan.
• 0:50
  So if you haven't heard part one with Jay Jordan, you got to
• 0:53
  check it out. And it's the first time I've
• 0:55
  done a part one and two. But I really thought we needed
• 0:57
  to do it because there's so much that happens in Jay's life up
• 1:02
  until the time he's in solitary confinement for two years and
• 1:05
  then all the re entry stuff that Jay does after he gets out.
• 1:09
  I want to reintroduce again because Jay Jordan has been out
• 1:16
  of prison since about 2012, I think.
• 1:19
  But man, he has done nothing but just being a doer since he got
• 1:23
  out. He doesn't just talk about
• 1:25
  problems, he goes out and solves them.
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  And what I mean by that, he's he's the Co founder of Time
• 1:29
  Done. And time done is all about man.
• 1:31
  When you get out, it should be over.
• 1:33
  That should be your end date. It should be over.
• 1:36
  You don't, you shouldn't be living a life sentence for the
• 1:39
  rest of your life because you did your time.
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  So he's doing all kinds of good stuff with time done and he's
• 1:46
  got a passion behind. He's also CEO of Alliance for
• 1:49
  Safety and Justice where he's passed over 100 new laws in the
• 1:54
  last 10 years, 100 new laws. I mean that that that is that is
• 1:59
  incredible. I mean, I don't even know where
• 2:01
  to start from, but one of the things that he just got passed
• 2:03
  in California is all about, if you don't reoffend, I think it's
• 2:06
  three or four years. You can get your record sealed
• 2:09
  and it's affected hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of
• 2:13
  people. But and it needs to be all over
• 2:15
  the nation. It's it's such a important
• 2:17
  thing. And how he got it done.
• 2:19
  He's going to talk about because I don't know how you get these
• 2:21
  things done. It's all about re entering.
• 2:24
  He's affecting justice, impacted people getting back into
• 2:28
  society, being able to live their lives once they've done
• 2:30
  their time. If you want to go follow this
• 2:34
  guy I, you know last I looked he's got like over 1,000,000
• 2:37
  followers on Instagram. This at Mr. J Jordan check him
• 2:41
  out. He's always got something going
• 2:43
  on. He's always working out.
• 2:45
  The guy's in pretty good shape. He's in pretty good shape.
• 2:49
  Before we jump into all that, I want to recognize our show
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• 3:36
  All right, Jay Jordan, we're back.
• 3:38
  We are back. OK, so when we left, when we
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  left, we were talking about a Jay Jordan that had been in
• 3:47
  solitary for two years and there was a spark that was lit for
• 3:52
  you. And it it, it changed the way
• 3:55
  that you saw the world and it was more about who am I and what
• 4:01
  can I be. And you discovered that all of
• 4:04
  it was inside you. All you needed to do was feed it
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  and you started feeding and just delving in and and sucking up
• 4:14
  information of history and politics and movements and all
• 4:18
  these things along with business and business plans and giving
• 4:22
  people stock tips and all this stuff.
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  And your mom's sending rims and rims and rims information and
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  you're just turning into this wizard in the cell.
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  So that's where we left off. So Jay, what happens?
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  What happens? Once you start doing that, yeah,
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  yeah, yeah. Part one was definitely like the
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  origin story. I think Part 2 here is going to
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  be about, like, what we did with everything that we learned.
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  So mind you, I had two strikes and I was in the hole in the
• 4:55
  solitary department. I was found guilty of an
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  administrative infraction inside prison and they put me in the
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  hole. Well, as you, as you explain,
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  Jay, you entered into a world where there was a war going on
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  in prison and and that's wars aren't good, but they're really
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  not good in prison. Yeah, they're definitely not
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  good in prison because you can't run from them.
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  There's no draft dodge and there's no I don't want to sign.
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  There's nowhere to go. Yeah, you were.
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  You were in it whether you like it or not.
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  And if it's a race war, which a lot of them are, you, you don't
• 5:30
  even have to be involved at all. You are in it.
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  You go to that yard. If you're white, black, Latino,
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  whatever you are, you're butt up against other factions, You have
• 5:38
  no choice. And so for folks on the streets
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  who don't really understand how prison works and how riots work
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  is a lot of them, especially in California and a lot of other
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  states, it's race based and you don't, you don't choose to, you
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  know, go in there and not talk to a different race.
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  That's just the way it is. And so if problem happens
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  between races you you're going to be involved by the nature of
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  just color your skin. So that's prison is very
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  primitive in that in that regard, a lot of other regards.
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  So I got caught up in that went to the shoe because the prison I
• 6:14
  was at was, you know, it was a Level 3 but it was a you know
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  rocking and roll and I I went to the shoe for two years solitary.
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  A textbook shoe is a is an acronym for a segregated housing
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  unit is where you do your long term segregation.
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  And that's where I went and I was in there and you know, mind
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  you I have two strikes. And so not understanding or not,
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  you know, knowing if I was going to get struck out because of
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  what happened because they can strike you out while in prison
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  and. Then what happens, Jay?
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  Let everybody know what that what What does it mean when you
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  get 3 strikes? Yeah, it means you got life, 25
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  years of life, right? So I went in there with with
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  seven years and here I am now facing life inside prison for
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  something I did didn't really do.
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  I didn't. I wasn't.
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  I didn't do anything. Somebody else did something and
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  I wouldn't. Get a name in it and we might
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  explain because it for those who who might not have caught it on
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  the first part. One, your plea deal gave you two
• 7:12
  strikes. You really should have gotten
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  one strike because of the plea deal.
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  They gave you two strikes so that you got less time.
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  If you would have taken one strike, you would have gotten
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  bit more or less double the time.
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  So you you you manufactured an extra strike.
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  Which is insane, right? You would think that you know a
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  crime and then the time corresponding with that.
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  Just a song, you know, a sidebar for people who don't understand
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  where we get these timeless, they are pulled out of the air,
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  right? It's like there's no type.
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  Oh, robbery should be 40. Someone should serve four years
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  for robbery because after four years a robber is somehow
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  rehabilitated if there's no social science tied to the list
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  of time someone has to do because of the crime.
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  Well, I'll give you, I'll give you an example, Jay, because my
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  crime was in the financial world and so we were in a family
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  business. And once they deemed this
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  enterprises wrong, then they can take wire fraud, they can take
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  mail fraud, they can take money laundering.
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  All they do is stack them. So however many times you've
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  been in business for 30 years, how many times you put something
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  in the mail? A lot.
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  How many times you make a wire or a wire transfer?
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  A lot if you bought anything because they deemed it a lot.
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  When I when I was trying to figure out what I was going to
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  do with my life, I I drunkenly got a bottle of vodka out and
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  started looking at my charges. I was looking at 922 years or I
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  could plea. So they stack those things so
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  much into a world, whether you're talking about state or
• 8:53
  federal, that you know, you talk about why did 97% of the people
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  plea when they're indicted. There's a lot of reasons and
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  there's a, you know, chapter, verse book.
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  It's not personal. They get what they want out of
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  the deal and there are people that go to court and the trial
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  and they don't seem to be very successful either.
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  Yeah, yeah. Especially in the fairs, man.
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  The fairs have the 99 point. Nine one of one of the guys
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  Jason Rochelbach was on and he said it's kind of like the your,
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  your, your beer softball league gets to play the LA Dodgers.
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  You're not going to win. You're not going to win, man.
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  You're not going to win it. So that's that's, I was in that
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  position I had in the 30, but it was just like, hey, we're going
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  to give you if you go to trial, you get 38 years of life.
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  So just just look at the time difference.
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  If I lose in trial 38 years to life, right?
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  But if you take this deal, you take 13 years with one strike or
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  we'll give you 2 strikes and seven years.
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  That didn't make any sense to me.
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  And that is kind of the underlying reason why a lot of
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  people want to reform the system because they're like it's not
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  rooted in any truth or fact or social science or evidence,
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  empirical knowledge or evidence that the time you're giving
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  people actually translates into, you know, lack of criminality or
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  low recidivism rate. It does not at all.
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  So here I am in the hole, two strikes based on the third one.
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  And like you said, you know, I had a revelation because my
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  neighbor knocked on the door and asked me what knocked on my wall
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  and asked me who I was. I couldn't really answer the
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  question. I went into this whole process
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  of becoming very introspective and questioning everything.
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  You know, I was kind of like Buddha hopping over the wall and
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  trying to figure out you know, who I am in the world now.
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  That was my journey. My journey was, you know, not
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  external but more internal. And you know everything that
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  I've ever been told. I begin to question out every
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  question that, you know, I've I've had about the world I began
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  to try to find an answer to. And you know, I was finding
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  answers, finding answers by cross referencing.
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  Thanks to my mother who sent me reams of information off the
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  Internet. I would, you know, I had an
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  appetite for knowledge and that appetite was literally locked up
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  for years and years and years. And it was kind of locked away
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  because I was just had this idea that I had to be this thing that
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  the world was telling me I needed to be and I was telling
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  myself I need to be. And I realized that none of that
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  was true. I didn't have to be a crip.
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  I didn't have to be this tough gang banging guy.
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  I didn't have to be so aggressive and so, you know,
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  kind of misogynistic and kind of all these things.
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  Like I didn't have to be that, you know, And when I realized
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  that it was the weight off my shoulders and I became like this
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  academic researcher, you know, I just wanted to know everything.
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  And and I created a plan. I said, hey, I'm getting out
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  because I had found out that, you know, I didn't.
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  They didn't file charges. And so I knew I was going home
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  eventually and I had to create a plan and I had these ideas to
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  and make money. I said hey, I can't get out and
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  not make money because that was the reason why I got myself in
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  here in the 1st place. I felt like I needed to make
• 12:08
  money before I moved out of Stockton and I ended up robbing
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  somebody and you know, it didn't work out well.
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  So I said I need money, I need some way to sustain myself.
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  And I've created a plan. You know, I was going to sell
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  real estate. I was going to sell insurance,
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  life insurance, because I've seen a lot of people dying from
• 12:26
  where I'm from in Stockton, CA. And, you know, I've seen all
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  these. My mom used to send me all these
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  different things, The folks dying and all these.
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  You can tell me, oh, we're paying for flights and we're
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  paying for funerals. And I'm like, people don't have
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  life insurance. I said great, I can sell people
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  life insurance. I can provide life insurance.
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  I want to sell real estate because at the time I was in
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  there, mind you, it was a real estate crisis.
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  And I saw the crisis. I was going crazy.
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  I'm like, it's an opportunity, right?
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  You know, you make money in a down mark.
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  You don't make money in an up mark.
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  You make money in a down mark. So I think it's the perfect
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  opportunity for me to hop in and tell people you need to buy,
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  buy, buy now for prices to shoot up.
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  And I wanted to sell used cars. Always had a passion for taking
• 13:07
  the old and fixing it up and you know, selling it to someone
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  else. I wanted to do these three
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  things and I wanted to do it out of a Barber shop because in the
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  prison I I couldn't, you know, I wasn't programming, I was
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  politicking, right. So I used to cut hair and that's
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  how I'm going to do this. And I had a literally down to
• 13:29
  the budget. I wrote out budgets and you know
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  I was I had my, I had I had the whole thing set up and I sent
• 13:35
  all this stuff to my sister just in case they they would come in
• 13:39
  here and take it. I didn't want them to take it.
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  So I sent her all this stuff and I said hey, you know let's start
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  a vending machine company. She's like what are you talking
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  about? I'm like and and all this
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  supreme correspondence and I said I have money in my book.
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  I'll send you the money and you know, let's start a vending
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  machine company. But when I got alcohol, we
• 13:57
  started the we started the vending machine company.
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  While you were in prison. While I was in there.
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  And so this, this was the beginning of me having agency
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  over my situation. Before, I didn't have agency
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  because I was listening to everything else people were
• 14:12
  telling me. I was in my own head about
• 14:14
  external forces when I became, when I had agency over my body
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  and my thoughts. I'm like, oh, I can do anything,
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  you know, No one can stop me. So we, I I started with one.
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  I found this guy Leo, and through through the classifieds,
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  he was selling vending machines. And I remember talking to Leo on
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  a freeway. I'm on the prison phone on the
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  freeway, My sister's on the phone.
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  And I'm like, hey, man, you have to hurry up.
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  I just want the guy to hear my voice and you can take it from
• 14:43
  here. So I called Leo and you know, on
• 14:46
  freeway, I had like 30 to 45 seconds before.
• 14:50
  This is a collect call from prison.
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  So I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, hey, Leo, this is Jay.
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  I'm on a boat right now, but I want you to hear my voice.
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  I want to buy your machine. My sister's going to take the
• 15:02
  premier, really appreciate you. And I'll hang up, right?
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  And Leo tells my sister the vending machine, you know, and
• 15:10
  that was the first one. And he she placed it at my
• 15:13
  brother's place of business, which is a concrete plant way
• 15:16
  out in the boonies. So they have to use the vending
• 15:19
  machine because in stocking it gets really really hot.
• 15:21
  And I was selling $0.50 sodas. This was back in O nine O 10
• 15:25
  right 2010. I was selling $0.50 sodas, ice
• 15:29
  cold sodas, grape sodas, strawberry sodas, Imagine.
• 15:32
  It was so good And the machines to sell out all the time and I
• 15:36
  have to tell my sister to keep up with the book.
• 15:38
  So that was, that was machine #1.
• 15:41
  I bought another machine after I'm saving up the money from
• 15:44
  that machine and I bought, I thought I had two machines.
• 15:48
  So I'm like, you know what, this is going to be a thing when I
• 15:50
  get out. And I finally got a hold of, you
• 15:54
  know, a cell phone because in prison they had cell phones.
• 15:56
  So I'm calling Leo from a three O 5 number, which is Miami and
• 16:00
  he's in the Bay Area. He was in, he was in Livermore
• 16:03
  and he's like, it's a three O 5 number.
• 16:04
  Jay, where are you? And I'm like long vacation.
• 16:10
  Well, I promise you, in about a year we'll meet up.
• 16:13
  Yeah, Yeah. I think I bought 3 machines.
• 16:16
  Two or three machines from Leo while incorporated.
• 16:20
  And these and these machines are placed.
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  And the day I get out, I am. I'm ready.
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  I'm ready. I had all my plans.
• 16:29
  I had everything set up in my head, at least what I was going
• 16:33
  to do. I knew exactly where to go to
• 16:35
  file for my short five things. You know the classes, the real
• 16:38
  estate classes, right? I knew I had to go to
• 16:41
  cosmetology school to get my Barber license.
• 16:43
  I knew all of that and the 1st place I went before I even went
• 16:48
  home, Rick before I even went home.
• 16:50
  I went to big hurt shop. He was my long time Barber and
• 16:55
  I'm like, I'm going straight to the money.
• 16:56
  I'm going straight forward. I don't want to go even go home
• 16:59
  first. I'm in a detour.
• 17:01
  Two big hurt shop. Big hurt like.
• 17:03
  Jay, what are you doing? I thought you were in prison.
• 17:05
  I'm like, you know, I'm out cut my hair.
• 17:07
  So I'm in the chair and I'm talking 1,000,000 miles a
• 17:10
  minute. I'm like, hurt.
• 17:12
  I got a plan and I got out when I was 26.
• 17:15
  I'm like hurt. I got a plan.
• 17:16
  I'm gonna sell insurance and real estate and used cars.
• 17:19
  We're doing all of a Barber shop.
• 17:20
  And what I need from you is I need you to hire me.
• 17:24
  Just give me a chair. He's like, yeah, for sure.
• 17:26
  He's like anything anything he said.
• 17:27
  Wait a minute. You got feminine man.
• 17:29
  You can't get your Barber license.
• 17:31
  And I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 17:32
  He's like, you cannot get your cosmetology license with a
• 17:35
  felony. And I'm like, that doesn't make
• 17:37
  any sense. That doesn't make any sense.
• 17:39
  And that was my first kind of gut punch.
• 17:42
  It was like, oh, this is going to be different.
• 17:44
  This is going to be. This is going to be different.
• 17:47
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:48
  And so when I have pictures of me going home and eating and my
• 17:53
  all my family was there and, you know, one of my mentors, Billy
• 17:57
  Johnson, was there. And there's a look on my face.
• 18:02
  And I remember that moment where I'm eating and I'm like this.
• 18:06
  The word big Hurt was telling me was bringing through my head.
• 18:09
  And everyone else is having fun. They're like, oh, my God, he's
• 18:11
  home. They're talking a joyous event.
• 18:14
  You know, it's like the baby of the family's home after so many
• 18:17
  years. Yeah, almost a decade.
• 18:19
  And I'm just thinking what Big Hurt says, You got felonies.
• 18:22
  You got felonies. I'm like, this is bothering me.
• 18:24
  This is really, really bothering me.
• 18:26
  So I'm. I go through the motions and I
• 18:28
  couldn't really enjoy myself. I mean, I'm happy.
• 18:31
  I couldn't really improve myself because I'm like, I'm more
• 18:33
  excited about proving everyone that believed in me right and
• 18:36
  proving everyone that didn't believe in me wrong.
• 18:39
  So those are my two goals. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to
• 18:42
  do this. And I was my main cheerleader.
• 18:44
  I'm like, you know what? I'm going to prove myself right?
• 18:47
  That I'm not this person that, you know, Everyone said I was,
• 18:50
  you know, and I remember the first thing in the morning, I
• 18:54
  got me a phone and this was when I left.
• 18:56
  We had Metro PCs phones. It wasn't, you know, and I had,
• 19:00
  you know, I had access to a phone every now and then in
• 19:03
  prison. So I kind of knew the evolution,
• 19:05
  but it wasn't like we had, you know, getting out.
• 19:09
  So I get a phone and I get on the Internet, Get on the
• 19:12
  Internet, and I'm like, can I get a insurance license with a
• 19:17
  felony? Boom, second gut punch.
• 19:22
  Real estate license. Boom, third gut punch.
• 19:25
  Used car boom, 4th gut punch and I'm like, OK, what am I going to
• 19:30
  do right if I can't? I spent the last two or three
• 19:35
  years having a huge plan to really show value and inject
• 19:42
  value into my community by doing these things, by bringing value
• 19:46
  in other people's lives. People need life insurance.
• 19:48
  I can provide that. I can be that bridge.
• 19:50
  People need to buy homes. I want to make sure that folks
• 19:53
  ride this way up because prices are low.
• 19:56
  I want all the people I know that have money and jobs.
• 19:58
  You buy real estate. I want to help facilitate that.
• 20:00
  Be a bridge, right? I want to bring joy by cutting
• 20:04
  people's hair. Every guy knows before you walk
• 20:07
  into the barbershop and after you walk out of the barbershop,
• 20:09
  those are two different guys, right?
• 20:12
  Walking in, walking out two different guys.
• 20:14
  I want to be a part of that transformation.
• 20:17
  None of that was true. Second day I was up.
• 20:19
  None of it was true. So what do I do?
• 20:22
  I said OK, you know, it's there's a saying that says.
• 20:28
  Go for the 1 bird in the hand instead of two in the Bush,
• 20:31
  right? And the one bird I had in my
• 20:33
  hand was my vending machine. So I went back my old pen and
• 20:37
  piece of paper and I started writing down.
• 20:40
  Vending machines were secondary for me.
• 20:41
  It was a prison thing. It wasn't really like my main it
• 20:44
  wasn't on. Your big business.
• 20:47
  Plan, right. So I said, you know what, now
• 20:49
  let's move all this other stuff. I'm not going to cry about it.
• 20:51
  I'm going to go big on vending machines.
• 20:53
  I'm going bull on vending machines.
• 20:55
  I became very bullish on vending machines.
• 20:57
  And my dad's like, So what are you going to do?
• 20:59
  And you know, I tell my dad what happened and I never show.
• 21:03
  I made it a point to never show my family when I was down.
• 21:07
  I've always been like, insanely optimistic, like insanely
• 21:10
  optimistic. And so I was like, hey dad,
• 21:14
  remember the plan I've been telling you about?
• 21:16
  We can't do the plan. Well, I got another plan.
• 21:18
  He's like, OK And he's been a really supportive throughout
• 21:21
  this whole process of me with these big lofty goals.
• 21:25
  And he's like, go for it, son. So I went for it.
• 21:28
  And he's like, just go bullish on vending machine to my sister.
• 21:32
  I'm sitting there trying to figure out, you know, what is my
• 21:35
  big bet? How can I swing?
• 21:38
  How can I slingshot to, like, massive adoption of vending
• 21:42
  machine. Yeah, right.
• 21:46
  And so I go with my sister, I'm in the car with her and she's
• 21:49
  like, come to CrossFit with me. She's like, you're in Chase,
• 21:51
  come to CrossFit. I don't know anything about
• 21:53
  CrossFit, that out to the CrossFit community.
• 21:55
  They are insane. It is a cult.
• 21:58
  It is a cult. CrossFit is a cult.
• 22:00
  I am convinced. So I go to, I go to Gabe, he has
• 22:05
  two O 9 CrossFit and I walk in there and they are doing
• 22:10
  dumbbells and kettle balls and snatches and hanging from upside
• 22:16
  down doing some handstand push ups.
• 22:19
  I'm like what is this place? They're practicing for the
• 22:21
  circus. So, you know, I walk in there
• 22:25
  and I'm like, I'm not doing this.
• 22:26
  This is too crazy. I'm neurotic, but I'm not that
• 22:28
  neurotic. And they're like, eating this
• 22:30
  weird food and drinking coconut. I never even heard of coconut
• 22:34
  water. I'm like coconut water.
• 22:36
  I'm like, how much did that stuff cost for like, 5 bucks?
• 22:39
  I'm like, are you kidding me? So you know me.
• 22:41
  I go back and do my research. What is the bulk price of
• 22:44
  coconut water? Right.
• 22:45
  What is the bulk price of what? What is their their diet called?
• 22:52
  Paleo, right? What is the Paleo product?
• 22:53
  Yeah, the Paleo product and both price the margins on that stuff.
• 22:58
  It's huge, right? We're talking about I can get a
• 23:01
  case of coconut water for like 2 bucks a unit and they're selling
• 23:06
  for $5. That is insane profit margin.
• 23:09
  I'm like CrossFit. I Google how many CrossFit gyms
• 23:12
  are there in California? There are dozens of CrossFit
• 23:15
  400. I'm like, here we go, here goes
• 23:18
  the scale. I go to game.
• 23:20
  I said game, you need a vending machine in here.
• 23:22
  And I made all these concessions, which I learned a
• 23:24
  lot about making concessions on the front end because you're
• 23:27
  excited about business opportunities.
• 23:30
  And he was like, yeah, sure, put one in here first one, I said,
• 23:32
  will you introduce me to all the CrossFit gyms And that, you
• 23:36
  know, he's like, yeah, introduced me to like three or
• 23:38
  four, got those contracts and then I got good.
• 23:43
  I said, well, I don't have the money to buy the machines, but
• 23:46
  what if I get the contracts right and then find a business
• 23:50
  partner to fund the machine? If I get the contract, can I
• 23:54
  have the contract right and I can show them all about sales?
• 23:56
  Yep. I start getting contract left
• 24:00
  and right, up and down the state of California and it became we
• 24:05
  scaled from 4 machines to 102 in like 8 months.
• 24:10
  Wow. Yeah.
• 24:10
  So we got, I got some work and I got I end up getting a business
• 24:13
  partner and he said, hey man, if you get, you keep getting these
• 24:18
  contracts, I'll put up the money because this is, this is golden.
• 24:21
  And Leo was telling me, Jay, build your route and then sell
• 24:25
  the route, right. So if your machine makes 1000
• 24:29
  bucks a month, that's 12,000 a year, you can double it.
• 24:31
  That one machine you can sell for $24,000 a year, if you have
• 24:36
  100 machines, that's what you can sell the route for.
• 24:39
  And I'm like, I'm doing the math.
• 24:41
  Here goes my big bet. Right Here goes my scale.
• 24:44
  And me and my business partner built that business.
• 24:47
  But simultaneously, when I was doing that, I had to find a
• 24:52
  regular job because my parole officer didn't care about the
• 24:55
  vending machines. He's like, that's not real.
• 24:56
  I'm like, it is real. Look at this guy.
• 24:58
  The money, these dollars head up.
• 25:03
  Yeah. And he says, no, you you need to
• 25:05
  you need to go to school or get a job.
• 25:07
  So I signed up to be an alcohol and substance abuse counselor.
• 25:11
  This accelerated course, about 12 week course God half with the
• 25:15
  court didn't really like it, didn't really like the deficit
• 25:17
  based framing they were using. It was all around like you know,
• 25:22
  the things I didn't want to do. It was more singular.
• 25:24
  I I wanted to fix problems. My mind has always been like
• 25:28
  kind of an alchemist. I want to turn something, you
• 25:31
  know, regular or bad into something good and it just
• 25:35
  wasn't for me. And then I had to get a job job
• 25:37
  but no one would hire me. Like literally no one would hire
• 25:41
  me with a felony. I went to a temp agency and
• 25:44
  started to work in his warehouse during the during the swing
• 25:48
  shifts. So from 6:00 PM to 2:00 in the
• 25:51
  morning I would work my job and then I would wake up at 6:00 AM,
• 25:56
  seven AM workout and then go do my vending machine and then go
• 26:00
  to work. So I was like busy.
• 26:02
  But then I got pulled into community work by default.
• 26:08
  One of my dad's closest colleagues, Billy Johnson, who
• 26:12
  was an ex Skinhead, he had a big old swastika on the back of his
• 26:16
  head. You know, he grew his hair out.
• 26:18
  He was old. Call him Papa Bill.
• 26:19
  He was an old shot caller. He'd befriended my dad.
• 26:23
  And, you know, he was like, hey, can you, you know, show my son
• 26:26
  the ropes about community work when you get out.
• 26:28
  And he's like, yeah. So he, you know, I used to talk
• 26:30
  to him a lot about around. I used to tell him about me
• 26:33
  being discouraged. And he was the only one that I
• 26:35
  would let on, like, hey, I'm getting a little bit disturbed,
• 26:38
  you know, And he would be like, I don't give a fuck, You know
• 26:41
  what I mean? You know, like you, you go for
• 26:44
  it. Like, you know, you go for it.
• 26:46
  Don't let that stop you, you know, at all.
• 26:48
  And he used to give me the motivation he just passed, but
• 26:51
  he used to give me the motivation to keep going.
• 26:53
  And he pulled me into this thing called beyond incarceration.
• 26:58
  So I'm doing the vending machine.
• 26:59
  I'm working, you know, the swing ship in a freezer at Trader
• 27:03
  Joe's warehouse, you know, way out there in the boonies in
• 27:05
  Stockton. And then I'm pulled into this
• 27:08
  beyond incarceration where I'm going to talk to kids about, you
• 27:12
  know, the gateway drugs and you know, like prison.
• 27:15
  And you know that really exposed me to kind of the systematic
• 27:19
  stuff that I got into later on because I was standing next to
• 27:25
  like the chief of police and sheriffs and DAS and they had
• 27:28
  live screen of people in Folsom prison and wardens and I'm like,
• 27:32
  yo, I've never, I thought I'd escape these people.
• 27:35
  I got it. I.
• 27:36
  Understand right beside. Them.
• 27:38
  Yeah, I just read it right back too.
• 27:39
  I'm like, but it was good because they they looked at me
• 27:43
  different. You know, they they they looked
• 27:45
  at me different. And all throughout my time in
• 27:48
  prison, you know, some people like some, a lot of the guards
• 27:51
  would call me Jordan. Jordan, But you know a few
• 27:54
  guards who saw that Sparkly called me by my name Jay and I
• 27:58
  knew like, OK, I was that's. Unusual too, yeah.
• 28:02
  Did you get called by your first name?
• 28:04
  Yeah, I still have my peace of humanity and none of my
• 28:07
  lifeline. Like, no, you're still a human.
• 28:09
  And some people, you could do that in private because they
• 28:11
  knew, you know, they should tell me you're going to do some stuff
• 28:14
  when you get out. I don't know what it is, but
• 28:15
  you're different. You're going to do some stuff.
• 28:17
  And you know, things like that brought me back when the DA was
• 28:21
  like, hey Jay, you know, Tory verbal, she was an ADA at the
• 28:24
  time. And Judge Blaviano, you know,
• 28:28
  Chief Eric Jones all really poured into me.
• 28:31
  You know, they were like, hey, we're happy to be standing right
• 28:34
  by side you and do this work and talk to these kids.
• 28:37
  Thank you for doing this work. And I used to be like, I don't
• 28:39
  want to be around these people. Y'all are cops, Y'all put me in
• 28:42
  jail. But as time went on, you know as
• 28:45
  time went on I began to shed that and you know really took my
• 28:49
  own self accountability and start to listen, you know, and
• 28:52
  say well tell me about your job. You know tell me like how hard
• 28:55
  it is to be the chief of police. I I never talked to a cop at all
• 28:59
  right. Tell me about your job.
• 29:00
  And I sat down with chief Jones for the first time.
• 29:02
  He said he he he told me, hey I've been doing it for 20-30
• 29:05
  years and I never knew what giving someone a felony actually
• 29:09
  does. So until I talk to you and he
• 29:12
  and he, like, did this whole essay, the chief who listened
• 29:15
  and like one of the catalyst for him changing his mind was
• 29:18
  talking to me about my issues. And you know, like everyone I,
• 29:21
  I, I would meet in that sector, would actually give me an
• 29:24
  opportunity to go a little bit further into my development.
• 29:29
  You know, because what I realized was I was only, I was
• 29:34
  beholden to my own cultural persuasion and I didn't see the
• 29:38
  other side. So I didn't understand that I
• 29:40
  had the agency and I had the expertise to help influence
• 29:45
  policy in a way that they couldn't because they've never
• 29:48
  been on my side. Right.
• 29:49
  And. And even though.
• 29:51
  Yeah, And and even though they were around people, like,
• 29:54
  usually folks like me didn't engage in a way that could help
• 29:58
  transform policy. So I, I took a leap and I said,
• 30:01
  wait a minute, I can help. I can actually help you change
• 30:04
  some of your policies that don't make any sense, right.
• 30:07
  Instead of going to a church with a gun on, take the damn gun
• 30:10
  off. You can badge off.
• 30:12
  You're a regular person. I guarantee people will talk to
• 30:14
  you and you'll gain insights about how much people don't like
• 30:17
  sheep, right? And he would do that and it
• 30:19
  would change the trajectory of the conversation.
• 30:23
  And I got a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper.
• 30:25
  That's the time. In 20/12/2013 in Stockton, a lot
• 30:29
  of people were dying, kids were dying.
• 30:31
  And you know, I said I talked to my nephew at the time and we
• 30:36
  were in the house and I said go to the park, man, why don't you
• 30:38
  go to the park? He's like, man, I want to go to
• 30:40
  the park. It's dangerous.
• 30:42
  That's what we're going to change that.
• 30:44
  And I remember I got a call that same week.
• 30:47
  One of my closest friends, Sonny, his brother, was shot in
• 30:50
  the head and murdered. His only brother shot like four
• 30:53
  times in the head. And I said, OK, I got to do
• 30:58
  something. It it clicked enough that I
• 31:01
  can't have my legacy be ice cold.
• 31:04
  Grape soda for $0.50 and paleo bar, right?
• 31:08
  I called my business partner. I said, hey, well, what would
• 31:10
  you give me if you bought me out?
• 31:11
  I mean, what would you give me to buy me out of the business?
• 31:13
  He's like, no, no, no, no, no, You, you're the one actually
• 31:16
  driving it. I'm just financing.
• 31:17
  I'm like, no, I'm out. I got to, I got to do this if
• 31:21
  you. And for those who know me, when
• 31:23
  I put my mind to something, there's no stopping, you know?
• 31:26
  And he bought me out. And I started network mentoring.
• 31:31
  I didn't know what I was doing. It was a nonprofit.
• 31:33
  And I said I'm going to do politics and community work
• 31:36
  until I fix the problem and stopping.
• 31:38
  And for the next two years I dedicated my life and all every
• 31:44
  fit I had to building this thing called 1st, 50 which was a youth
• 31:50
  mentoring program that taught kids civic right, like spread up
• 31:55
  civics. And we used to do it with
• 31:57
  academia and then applied, right.
• 32:00
  So we used to teach them about automotive technicians.
• 32:04
  So we used to have somebody come in there on Friday talk about
• 32:06
  how to change the tire, how to change you know oil what
• 32:10
  situation where you might need to do this.
• 32:14
  We and then they and then the next day we could bring them to
• 32:17
  a shop and they would do it. And we did this for a lot of
• 32:21
  different things like, you know a community garden.
• 32:25
  We did this with elder homes. Like what does it mean to why do
• 32:28
  we have a system to where you know the older folks go to a
• 32:32
  home and what does that mean? I'm going to show you what a
• 32:33
  home looks like, right. And it changed the perception
• 32:36
  of, you know, kind of the city, right.
• 32:39
  They didn't understand what utilities were and police
• 32:42
  departments were and how it was funded.
• 32:44
  And we taught them all of that. And over the course of two years
• 32:48
  of doing them, actually about a year and a half, we started with
• 32:52
  about 70 kids. That got down to like 30 really
• 32:55
  hardcore kids. We we did it at my dad's church
• 32:58
  because even though the parents and the teachers and the
• 33:03
  principal really wanted me at Franklin High School, which is a
• 33:07
  high school in Stockton and E Stockton, they really wanted me
• 33:09
  there. School board president told me
• 33:13
  that because I had felony, I volunteered.
• 33:15
  So you know, again didn't stop us.
• 33:19
  All the parents were like let's do it at your dad's church,
• 33:21
  right. So we did that at my dad's
• 33:22
  church and you know, we had kids with below one point O GPA.
• 33:27
  We had kids with four point O GPA in this group.
• 33:30
  We had Latinos, we had blacks, we had, we had everybody.
• 33:34
  And at the end of the program I was broke.
• 33:37
  But they graduated a lot, and every single one of them went to
• 33:40
  college. Which was unreal.
• 33:42
  I read about this, Jay and I and and I know you're not going to
• 33:46
  say this, but I'm going to tell you spent your last $100 on a
• 33:50
  graduation gift from one of your kids.
• 33:53
  Yeah, yeah. My last I was with, I was.
• 33:56
  I was overdraft after that, you know, I was with.
• 34:00
  I mean that's all land man. And and the other thing I don't
• 34:03
  want to I don't want to to to just Slough over all those kids
• 34:08
  really went on to college and so so you gave them the tools they
• 34:13
  needed to get to that next step which had to be just.
• 34:16
  I don't know how that fills somebody up but I know my
• 34:19
  daughter's a teacher my youngest daughter and and the the
• 34:22
  feedback she gets from being a good teacher that whatever that
• 34:25
  is, that's an intangible thing. But man, that that's something,
• 34:28
  doesn't it? Yeah, yeah.
• 34:30
  They're like, they became my family.
• 34:32
  Like they became my dad, gave me a truck.
• 34:37
  It was a S10, right? And you know, he was like, you
• 34:42
  know, keep this truck clean, keep it clean, don't wreck it.
• 34:48
  And I ended up putting a bunch of paint in the back because we
• 34:50
  used to paint trash cans to beautify parks around Stockton.
• 34:54
  It was things like that. And it became like this.
• 34:56
  When you saw the truck, the truck had paint all over it, and
• 34:59
  the kids would paint and put their handprints on the car.
• 35:01
  And none of that mattered because they were experiencing
• 35:04
  joy in Stockton in a way that they hadn't before.
• 35:08
  I mean, Stockton was a scary place, but when we got together,
• 35:11
  it wasn't scary at all. And they used to come to the
• 35:13
  church every Thursday, Friday, sometimes Wednesday.
• 35:16
  And I would just be there and they would come and hang out.
• 35:18
  And it became a place of just, you know, having a good time and
• 35:23
  really important to the kids. And I felt like that was my
• 35:25
  contribution to ensure that they didn't go down the road.
• 35:28
  I went down where even though a lot of these kids had two
• 35:32
  parents, I saw myself in them, where both parents were working.
• 35:35
  And they were forced to like, you know, kind of they were
• 35:38
  latchkey kids like I was. So I didn't want the society to
• 35:42
  tell them that they were less than.
• 35:45
  And a lot of these kids, the society would just feed them
• 35:47
  down and teachers would say stuff.
• 35:49
  And I would be like, hell, no, You are powerful.
• 35:52
  You're going to change the world.
• 35:53
  You are magic. You're going to go to college.
• 35:56
  You're going to get good grades. You know why?
• 35:57
  I'm not going to let you fail at all.
• 35:59
  And you know, I pour my heart into it.
• 36:02
  And you know, when I saw Remember the graduation, I sat
• 36:06
  all the way in the top. I didn't want to like it was
• 36:08
  their moment and no one knew like that was it?
• 36:12
  Everyone used to ask me, well, you're going to do the 2nd
• 36:15
  cohort. And I'm like, this is this, it's
• 36:16
  all I got. Like, I don't have no more
• 36:18
  money, you know, at all. And it was going around, it was
• 36:23
  it was approaching my parole day, like with my, my parole
• 36:28
  index, you know, 2015. And my dad told me when I got
• 36:31
  out, he said, hey, I'll, I'll give you 3 years.
• 36:34
  I'll give you 3 years. And I'm retiring to Oklahoma and
• 36:38
  I'm like, hi all it is three years.
• 36:41
  And it was approaching that and then I was, I was scared.
• 36:46
  I was broke because I put all my money there and I got a job
• 36:52
  working as a field director for Gerry Mcnerney's RE election
• 36:57
  campaign, Congressman Gerry McNerney Congressional District
• 37:00
  9. Because, you know, if you Google
• 37:02
  up at the time, we were always in the news.
• 37:04
  We were always bringing people out.
• 37:05
  We had hundreds of volunteers for a lot of our stuff.
• 37:09
  We were doing a a lot of stuff in stock.
• 37:11
  And at the time, and, you know, I, I, I tried to find a
• 37:18
  conventional job, you know, with the city, with nonprofits, and
• 37:22
  everyone was like, no, we'll work with you, but we won't hire
• 37:26
  you, right. Which was insane to me because
• 37:29
  here I am, you know, side by side with all these agencies and
• 37:33
  nonprofits and the government, and they're praising me, You
• 37:37
  know, saying, Jay, you're doing such a good job, but they
• 37:39
  wouldn't hire me, right? So I'm good enough to work
• 37:43
  alongside you, but I'm not good enough for you to hire.
• 37:48
  And McNerney took a chance on me and he hired me.
• 37:51
  And I was the 1st and probably only person on parole in America
• 37:56
  running a congressional field campaign.
• 37:59
  And we won by the largest margin ever.
• 38:03
  And that was, you know, kind of like you know much about him
• 38:06
  when he. Gave you that shot, Jay.
• 38:10
  Yeah, so McNerney, he gave me. So what we used to do at 1st 50
• 38:15
  is we used to get certificates. Well, we got a lot of
• 38:20
  certificates from like every level of government based on the
• 38:24
  work and the reason we used to ask for these certificates not
• 38:28
  for the program, but we used to ask for 47 or 50, however many
• 38:32
  kids we had at the program at that time and we used to give
• 38:35
  them certificates. And so, you know, these kids
• 38:39
  walked away not only with the knowledge and the love, right,
• 38:43
  but a stack of certificates from all these governments, you know,
• 38:47
  all these level of governments. And so I used to work with
• 38:49
  Mcgurney a lot of times and give him a lot of publicity.
• 38:53
  So he knew, you know, if you know anything about politics,
• 38:56
  the field campaign is about bringing people to the work.
• 38:59
  And at that time it was a a a safe blue seat.
• 39:05
  So he thought that all he needed was volunteers.
• 39:08
  And we got you know I came in and I did a lot of volunteer
• 39:11
  work our brought up a bunch of volunteers to his campaign and
• 39:15
  we won. And I was in November of 2014
• 39:19
  and mind you my dad said hey when you get off parole I'm,
• 39:22
  I'm, I'm moving and January was approaching in 2015.
• 39:26
  So this was the date I got out January 19th, 2012, January
• 39:30
  19th, 20/20/15. I paroled my dad left in
• 39:34
  December and he was like, you have the house for January to
• 39:37
  yourself and then son, you're on your own.
• 39:40
  You've done well in Stockton. And I, you know, I remember my
• 39:44
  last shot was to try to get a job with the city because that's
• 39:49
  the city was like, hey, you know, we'll give you a job, you
• 39:54
  know, And they didn't say that in writing, but they were like,
• 39:57
  we really would love to work with you.
• 39:59
  It'd be great. Like you working for the city,
• 40:01
  right. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:02
  So I always thought they were going to hire me and you know,
• 40:06
  January came and. You know, I, I reached out to
• 40:10
  the city manager and I was like, hey man, you know, getting off
• 40:13
  parole would love for you to come and talk to me or I would
• 40:17
  love to come and talk to you about actual job.
• 40:19
  And he said, man, it's going to be too politically difficult to
• 40:22
  get you hired here. And I'm like, wow, OK, never.
• 40:26
  Got. Punch Yeah, that was that was a
• 40:28
  hard one And so I was faced with like either getting a
• 40:33
  conventional job after doing all this stuff for years.
• 40:37
  I seemed over a lot. We did a lot of working for
• 40:40
  years really you know did a renaissance in in Stockton where
• 40:45
  it was just different the and. He had no results.
• 40:49
  Yeah, the energy was different in soccer and I decided to
• 40:54
  leave. So I packed up my car.
• 40:57
  I had two boxes, you know, didn't really have any clothes.
• 41:01
  I wasn't a clothes guy. I didn't have no money to buy
• 41:03
  clothes. Then I I had a couple of suits
• 41:06
  my the ties my dad gave me. I had some dress shoes with
• 41:10
  holes in them. I I didn't even I had like 2
• 41:12
  pair of dress socks. But most of the socks I used to
• 41:14
  wear with athletic socks, with my dress shoes, I had a couple
• 41:18
  of overcoats. You know, I made some jackets
• 41:22
  and put it in the car and I had a pack of Newports and usually I
• 41:29
  used to smoke a camel crush. I said, you know what?
• 41:31
  I'm going to smoke Newports all the way to LA.
• 41:34
  And I didn't. My, my granny and my oldest
• 41:36
  sister lived in LA. My granny lived in a living
• 41:39
  facility with my sister, which was her caretaker.
• 41:42
  And so I couldn't stay there. If I'm like, you know what, I
• 41:44
  could stay there for one night. But, you know, my girlfriend at
• 41:47
  the time moved to LA. And I said, you know what?
• 41:49
  This is my only, this is let's do it.
• 41:52
  And you know, I moved to LA with like my last paycheck from
• 41:59
  McNerney, which is like 2500 bucks.
• 42:02
  And I didn't know anybody well. And I moved to LA and I remember
• 42:07
  the day I got there, I had spent 500 bucks just like all out
• 42:12
  party. And I'm like, you know, I'm
• 42:13
  going to, I'm going to, you know, be with my sister.
• 42:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I'm like, you know, we're going to,
• 42:18
  I'm going to have some fun. I just went on this crazy
• 42:21
  three-year run in Stockton. I was depressed as hell.
• 42:25
  No one knew, but I didn't have anywhere to stay.
• 42:28
  And you know, for the past three months, you know, I I went from,
• 42:32
  you know, staying a night at my girl's house.
• 42:34
  I don't want her to know that I was didn't have anywhere to go
• 42:38
  to my granny. I used to sneak in my granny's
• 42:39
  house and sneak out before the the front desk and see me, you
• 42:43
  know, out the back, out out the back door, hop the gate into the
• 42:47
  alleyway and run to my car. And that lasted like 3 months.
• 42:52
  What I think is interesting about that is I've read some
• 42:54
  things on homelessness and and a lot of people aren't aware that
• 42:58
  are even close around that are people that you know, don't
• 43:02
  know, you know. It's.
• 43:03
  It's one of those things that people can get almost get away
• 43:08
  with for a certain amount of time without people knowing that
• 43:10
  they don't have a place to go. Yeah, traditional homelessness.
• 43:15
  Yeah, I was. I was.
• 43:17
  I was. I was traditional homeless for a
• 43:20
  while, you know, for three months, sleeping in my car,
• 43:23
  solid. And I had money to rent an
• 43:27
  apartment, but no one would rent to me because a lot of the
• 43:31
  apartments were managed by property management companies
• 43:34
  that did background checks. And so, you know, I just
• 43:37
  couldn't find employment, couldn't find jobs.
• 43:40
  My money was going down. Let's count it down.
• 43:42
  My car got repossessed like two or three times.
• 43:45
  You know, luckily my dad sent me.
• 43:46
  Money was like, hey, man, I thought that you didn't pay your
• 43:48
  car. Now you know, here you go and
• 43:51
  go, go get my car out. You know, 'cause I didn't have a
• 43:54
  car. I didn't have a place to stay.
• 43:56
  And I went to this organization, LA Voice, and I talked to the
• 44:02
  executive director, Zach Hoover. And Zach was, he's this Harvard
• 44:08
  grad out of Indiana, really smart, sharp guy.
• 44:13
  And it was organizing community organized.
• 44:16
  And I knew and understand the concept of community organizing
• 44:18
  inherently, but I wasn't classically trained at that
• 44:21
  moment. And but I did a lot of
• 44:24
  community. You had been doing that?
• 44:26
  Yeah. I did a lot of community
• 44:27
  organizers even before I knew what it was.
• 44:29
  Yeah. I mean.
• 44:29
  All the stuff you were doing, the park.
• 44:31
  Was good organizing. Yeah.
• 44:33
  And I said, hey, you don't know me, but I'm gonna tell you my
• 44:38
  story and I'm homeless and give me an opportunity.
• 44:46
  Give me an opportunity part time.
• 44:50
  They said I'll pay you 15 bucks an hour.
• 44:52
  If they pay me 19, you got me. And he paid me 19 bucks an hour
• 44:57
  and connected me and he said hey, we have a bunch of black
• 45:01
  churches in South Los Angeles and LA Voice was a part of the
• 45:05
  Pico network is people improving community to organize and it's
• 45:09
  one of the largest faith-based organizing networks in the
• 45:11
  country. And you know they have a whole
• 45:16
  ideology. Olinsky Train kind of Obama went
• 45:20
  through Olinsky Train organizing, you know, kind of
• 45:24
  rooted in the organizing circle and principle around the power
• 45:27
  of the relationship of building deep relationships with people
• 45:30
  and surfacing self-interest and then taking those self interests
• 45:33
  and needs and then, you know, ensuring that society answers
• 45:37
  those self interests of the people.
• 45:39
  Really, really deep, deep organizing strategy and
• 45:42
  methodology. And they wanted to bring black
• 45:45
  churches into the fold in South Los Angeles.
• 45:48
  And so, you know my dad, the past it was I was like this is,
• 45:51
  this is serendipitous right here.
• 45:53
  So I go and start knocking on doors and come to find out I was
• 45:57
  good at talking to people about, you know, self-interest and gain
• 46:02
  some really deep relationships in Los Angeles.
• 46:06
  Conversations and relationships. Well, relationships I still have
• 46:09
  today and got really, really good at it.
• 46:14
  So much so that that could not not hire me full time.
• 46:18
  He was stuck. He was like, OK, I got to hire
• 46:20
  this guy and like two more months of me being homeless
• 46:26
  after he gave me the Parkside position.
• 46:28
  So about five months where I was just like literally going from
• 46:31
  place to place to place. And I I got my first check and I
• 46:34
  said, you know what? I'm going to go as far as as
• 46:36
  possible. I got to find me a a place to
• 46:39
  go, you know, because I can't keep driving to South Los
• 46:42
  Angeles, you know, and then sleeping in my car to Walmart.
• 46:46
  Just not safe, right. Just so I can go talk with
• 46:49
  clergy, you know, to see if they want to join, you know, Pico.
• 46:53
  And so I went to North Hollywood and I found this little itty
• 46:59
  bitty apartment building like 8 units.
• 47:02
  And I went there and it said the manager on site.
• 47:06
  And I'm like, yes, I mean it's probably owned, it's not brand
• 47:09
  by property management company and I'm not going to.
• 47:12
  And I saw a roaches and I'm like, you know what?
• 47:13
  I don't care at this point. I'm, I'm going to be happy.
• 47:16
  Yeah. And I locked on it and I'm like,
• 47:19
  listen, I will pay you two months in advance all the money
• 47:23
  I have. I just need a place to live.
• 47:25
  And he said sure, I'm like and ah man, I went back to my car
• 47:32
  and I cried and I cried. I cried my first time crying for
• 47:35
  a while. And I cried.
• 47:37
  I said, oh man, this is this. I'm going to make it.
• 47:40
  I'm finally going to make it. This is this, this is it.
• 47:43
  And I stayed in that. It was a one bedroom apartment
• 47:46
  and I picked that thing up. Then I put little traps.
• 47:49
  I didn't, you know, I I knew how to like, you know, put little
• 47:52
  traps around so the Rotary won't come in my house and yeah, yeah,
• 47:58
  stay next door. And I had good neighbors.
• 48:00
  So then my my neighbors were clean.
• 48:03
  We were clean. So we were good up top.
• 48:05
  And you know, they didn't speak a little English.
• 48:07
  I didn't speak a little Spanish, but we got along.
• 48:09
  They used to feed me all the time because for whatever
• 48:12
  reason, they knew that I was like on a mission.
• 48:14
  They could bring me food and their kids used to like knock on
• 48:17
  my door, bring you a little candy, like you know, give the
• 48:19
  kids candy. And I built a little community
• 48:22
  there. And you know, I got 7 months
• 48:25
  into my work and in in in LA and just really build the community
• 48:31
  in LA quickly. When I finally got my feet under
• 48:34
  me, it was just like, OK, yeah, Rock and rolling.
• 48:39
  Yeah. And I was and I was meeting
• 48:40
  people doing the same stuff I was doing in socket, just making
• 48:44
  my rounds and making sure people knew my name and knew what I was
• 48:47
  about and adding value to their lives.
• 48:49
  And you know, and the clergy I was working with, what's the
• 48:54
  Zakkin said, you got to hire this guy.
• 48:56
  You got to hire this guy. You have to hire this guy.
• 48:58
  So he hired me and he paid me $47,000.
• 49:02
  That was my first. This is 2015.
• 49:04
  This was, this was not years ago.
• 49:07
  So he paid me 47, five, man. And I worked my tail off for
• 49:13
  like the next five months of the year end.
• 49:15
  And I met this guy, Robert Brooks.
• 49:21
  You don't know Robert Brooks. Google Robert Brooks.
• 49:23
  He's a, he's a, he's a he was definitely a a silent genius.
• 49:28
  One of my mentors, one of my, a friend, one of my brothers, you
• 49:31
  know, I'm always in debt to Robert.
• 49:33
  Robert has changed the lives of so many people and he's
• 49:37
  extremely humble about it. And he, he asked me that I met,
• 49:43
  I met him at A at the California Endowment.
• 49:49
  It's this philanthropic institution.
• 49:52
  And I met him and he was trying to organize a fair for people
• 50:00
  with records to change their records.
• 50:02
  They had just passed this law, Prop 47, which allowed certain
• 50:05
  people with certain crimes to reduce those felony, Felicity,
• 50:09
  like drug crimes and all that type of stuff.
• 50:12
  And so he, he like, let's do a fair, you know, And I'm like,
• 50:16
  what is it? What the hell does this guy cook
• 50:17
  you to a fair, like with bears wheels and clowns and stuff?
• 50:20
  That's not going to happen. That's not going to work.
• 50:22
  And so it's my first time meeting Robert.
• 50:24
  He was like an unconventional thinker like that.
• 50:27
  And so I'm like, we got to meet this guy.
• 50:30
  This guy is a little off, but he's talking about gold and
• 50:33
  clowns and criminals. Like, what the fuck is he
• 50:36
  called? So they're for criminals.
• 50:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll meet him.
• 50:41
  And he's like, where do you see yourself in 10 years?
• 50:45
  And I'm like one of those questions like, you know, Rasta
• 50:48
  back in the hole asked me and I felt like that I'm like, you can
• 50:52
  be life changing right here. These are life changing because
• 50:55
  usually life like life altering events start with a question
• 50:58
  that you can't really answer. And then you go on and I said,
• 51:02
  you know, I want to, I want to make over.
• 51:04
  I didn't tell them what I wanted to make.
• 51:06
  I said I wanted to help myself and others get out of this cycle
• 51:10
  that we're in. And I didn't have a name for it.
• 51:13
  I just like this weird cycle where I can't do anything in my
• 51:19
  debt, but like like this ever, never ending debt that I'm
• 51:22
  paying. And he said, well, what do you
• 51:24
  want to make? I want to make over $100,000.
• 51:26
  At the time, I thought that was like a.
• 51:28
  Lot of money. Well, I mean, a lot of people
• 51:30
  say that's the six figure, you know.
• 51:32
  Yeah, yeah. And like $100,000.
• 51:35
  And so he's like, all right, all right, all right.
• 51:38
  And he says, I'll be in touch. I'm like, this is a waste of my
• 51:44
  time, right? This guy wasting my time.
• 51:47
  I don't hear from him. And then he comes back like a
• 51:50
  month later and he says, hey man, so we got this position.
• 51:55
  You've been crushing it. And I'm like, what do you mean
• 51:57
  like in Stockton, you know, LA, you just been crushing it.
• 52:00
  People are talking about you. People are talking about you.
• 52:02
  I'm like, what? People are talking about me.
• 52:04
  You're like, yeah, man, you're doing a good job.
• 52:07
  That's my first time realizing that when you are righteous and
• 52:13
  authentic and walking in your purpose, right, and are focused
• 52:18
  on being the best self you could be, your name will be in rooms
• 52:23
  you've never answered right In good ways and bad ways, right.
• 52:29
  And my neighbors in rooms I've never even been in, in the mouth
• 52:33
  and the ears of people that I've never even met, right, In a
• 52:37
  favorable way. And I didn't know that I was
• 52:40
  like, yeah, people are talking about you, man.
• 52:42
  You've done a lot of good work, and you have to position.
• 52:45
  And I'm like, all right, well, what is it?
• 52:47
  He's like, well, and he made it up.
• 52:50
  I found it later on. He was like network network
• 52:54
  manager, managing their statewide network organization,
• 52:58
  California for Safety and Justice.
• 53:01
  And I'm like, OK, what are you going to pay me, $97,000?
• 53:05
  No, 92.5. And he said with a lot of room
• 53:08
  for growth. And I'm like, a lot of room for
• 53:09
  growth. What are you talking about?
• 53:10
  He's like a lot. But Robert saw something in me
• 53:13
  that I didn't see myself. And this was, yeah, this was the
• 53:17
  beginning of 2016. You know, this is the, like, end
• 53:20
  of 2015, beginning of 2016. And I'm like, let's do it.
• 53:23
  I had a conversation with Zach. Zach was like, really, really
• 53:26
  kind of sad. He was like my best organizing
• 53:28
  what he's in. And I'm like, I don't know what
• 53:30
  organizing means, but I've been trained a lot under Zach.
• 53:34
  And Mike Mcbraw taught me a lot. And then Pico really gave me a
• 53:38
  crash course. And yeah.
• 53:39
  It's kind of like your foundation.
• 53:41
  Yeah yeah, the science of organizing.
• 53:43
  I knew the art art art lived in but the science I was really
• 53:47
  taught by Pico in that one year just like intense training and I
• 53:53
  started with Californians for Safety and Justice and it was it
• 53:58
  was 20/15/2016 as network men and network manager it was a it
• 54:04
  was like the lowest position you can have any organization and
• 54:09
  man in the next seven years I've I've I've been retired so I'm no
• 54:19
  longer the worker been Alliance for Safety now Alliance for
• 54:23
  Safety and Justice. I've retired last year, but in
• 54:26
  seven years, let me just run down some stuff that you're
• 54:28
  Yeah. Let's do that.
• 54:30
  So started out Network Network Manager and then we started this
• 54:38
  thing called Second Chance, the second chances program where you
• 54:44
  know, I, he kept his promise and let me work on getting free.
• 54:49
  And he said, you know, hey man, if you want to get free, you
• 54:52
  work towards getting free. And I'm like, I don't even know
• 54:55
  where to start. He said, well, you know, we want
• 54:58
  you to be the Second chances program director.
• 55:00
  And I'm like and he split me a piece of paper and it was an
• 55:04
  idea where we would change the laws in California.
• 55:07
  And I'm like, I've never changed the law ever in my life, but I'm
• 55:10
  going to learn how to. And the first thing we did was
• 55:17
  we we actually, there was a, there was a ballot initiative
• 55:21
  that they threw me into and said, hey, we want you to run
• 55:23
  the community side of this ballot initiative.
• 55:26
  And I'm like, how do I even do that?
• 55:28
  And you're like, you'll figure it out.
• 55:31
  And I figured it out. And we won that ballot
• 55:34
  initiative, Prop 57, which gave people an opportunity inside
• 55:38
  prison to earn time off by going to college and going to drug and
• 55:42
  alcohol classes and going to be able classes, right?
• 55:45
  Like you got like a month off if you finished something.
• 55:47
  But that's changed. Like people that, you know what
• 55:51
  I mean? Get their life together and do
• 55:53
  some good stuff, right. I wish I would have had that
• 55:54
  when I was in there. And it was it, it it was huge.
• 55:59
  It was massive because it helped California reduce its prison
• 56:04
  population. And at the time, California was
• 56:06
  still under receivership because it was so overcrowded that one
• 56:10
  person would die every single week from a preventable medical
• 56:13
  condition. And so, So the US Supreme Court
• 56:17
  was like, lower your prison population because people are
• 56:19
  dying and California couldn't do it.
• 56:22
  So Californians for Safety and Justice and a whole host of
• 56:25
  organizations stepped in and said, well, we need to tweak
• 56:28
  some of these laws that were keeping people in prison half
• 56:31
  the time they should be in prison.
• 56:33
  If you steal a ham sandwich, you shouldn't be in prison for five
• 56:37
  years. Maybe you should be in prison or
• 56:39
  jail for like a couple of months, but then you should get
• 56:42
  job training so you can go buy yourself, you know, a ham
• 56:46
  sandwich. It just makes sense.
• 56:48
  And when you do that, people don't come back.
• 56:50
  And so California jumped into work to start passing these
• 56:54
  laws. And California for Safety and
• 56:56
  Justice was leading the charge and the massive ballot
• 57:00
  initiative that shift the culture and the operation of how
• 57:05
  prisons and and policing work in California.
• 57:08
  And I was like smack dab in the middle of this and I didn't
• 57:11
  realize that I was helping to drive a massive culture shift in
• 57:16
  California towards and and like when when you're in it, Brit,
• 57:23
  you're in it Right now I'm looking back.
• 57:25
  I'm like, wow. Oh, it's amazing.
• 57:27
  When you look at it on paper, it's unbelievable what happened.
• 57:30
  Yeah, yeah, So, So we led the charge.
• 57:34
  I LED the community side on Prop 57, and then they made me second
• 57:38
  chance. Program director and I pulled
• 57:39
  together all of the people that have that I knew about, 27 folks
• 57:45
  that were directly involved with either sending someone to
• 57:48
  prison, arresting someone so they can go to jail, processing
• 57:53
  them, all of it. So we have police, probation,
• 57:58
  people who ran organizations that were that were formally
• 58:01
  incarcerated themselves, folks who just got out, behavioral
• 58:05
  health, the health sector, public defenders, all in the
• 58:10
  room at the Anthony Foundation for six months, every single
• 58:14
  month. So for one day out of the month,
• 58:17
  we would come together and pour over all the research that you
• 58:20
  find, you know, basically pointing to why people with
• 58:23
  records had problems with these collateral consequences.
• 58:27
  Communicating. They should be communicating
• 58:29
  100%. And so we did this participatory
• 58:31
  research process, right. And people thought we were
• 58:34
  crazy. They're like, yeah, you got, you
• 58:36
  got the police with like, Karen Stewart, who they're like, do
• 58:39
  you know what I mean? You can meet parents like, you
• 58:42
  know, parents. You would not think parents
• 58:44
  would be in a room with the police, right?
• 58:45
  But we were. And when we first started,
• 58:48
  Brett, this is so beautiful. Rest Amity Foundation.
• 58:50
  I pull all these people together.
• 58:52
  Chief Jones, one of them, right. And he flew up from, we flew
• 58:55
  everybody from all around California into this room.
• 58:59
  And the first day I get up there and I say we're going to figure
• 59:03
  this thing out and we're going to free a lot of people in
• 59:06
  California. That's our promise, right?
• 59:10
  That's my promise. And I'm like, I'm going to tell
• 59:12
  you why Terrance tell your story.
• 59:14
  So Terrance gets up there, and Terrance is like, I broke the
• 59:18
  cycle. I have a master's degree from UC
• 59:23
  Riverside and I can't get housing because of a drug
• 59:28
  conviction in the 90s. The people are like, what?
• 59:32
  What? So the deputy chief from Oxnard
• 59:38
  Eric, his name is Eric too, shoots his hand up.
• 59:43
  And I'm like, oh man, this is a bad idea.
• 59:47
  All the staff that I was working with is like, oh Jay, you didn't
• 59:50
  stepped in it now and he gets up without even calling on him.
• 59:54
  And he says in my 20 years he says the same thing she don't
• 59:58
  said to me years earlier. In my 20 years of law
• 1:00:02
  enforcement, I never knew that me giving you a felony would
• 1:00:08
  result in this. He said we used to high 5 when
• 1:00:12
  we used to catch somebody and give them a felony and sack the
• 1:00:14
  target. We didn't know what we were
• 1:00:16
  doing. No one knows this stuff.
• 1:00:20
  And I'm like, oh man, here we go, we are in it, we are in it
• 1:00:23
  now. And for six months we we cried
• 1:00:27
  together, we argue, we laughed, we ate good food and we became
• 1:00:33
  close and like we produced research project called
• 1:00:38
  Repairing the Road to Redemption in California.
• 1:00:42
  And the four buckets were who were people with records.
• 1:00:45
  So there are 70 to 100 million people in America with some sort
• 1:00:49
  of Rep. Prices a lot of people when you
• 1:00:51
  just say. Right.
• 1:00:52
  Yeah, it's one. Million people, we got 3. 130
• 1:00:55
  million people in the United States, like it's a lot of
• 1:00:58
  people and they face what is called, well, about 90%.
• 1:01:03
  So nine out of ten of those folks already served their time.
• 1:01:06
  If it's out of average of five to seven years and you know, the
• 1:01:08
  date of Rick, like if you've been out average of five years,
• 1:01:13
  you are just as likely to commit a crime as someone that never
• 1:01:16
  committed a crime ever. Meaning you are not going to
• 1:01:19
  commit another crime. But even still, you face 40,000
• 1:01:24
  legal restrictions that kick on after you serve your time.
• 1:01:29
  These things lock people out of entire sectors like healthcare,
• 1:01:34
  insurance, real estate. Yes, and all the things, all the
• 1:01:37
  things you got hit in the gut. With all the things I got hit, I
• 1:01:40
  got hit in the gut with and was more surprising when we found
• 1:01:43
  out is that because of the housing regulation, people are
• 1:01:47
  forced to live in the same area. Segregation segregates that
• 1:01:52
  population to that population. Post conviction redlining,
• 1:01:55
  right. You get red line to a certain
• 1:01:58
  area you know and and and the people who don't who aren't red
• 1:02:03
  lined to those areas are either are either staying with someone
• 1:02:06
  aren't on the lease or they you know bought their own house
• 1:02:10
  right. Right.
• 1:02:11
  And the mass majority of folks are either staying with someone
• 1:02:15
  or not on the lease, right. Right.
• 1:02:17
  And then the folks who are on the lease who have agency, you
• 1:02:20
  know, even they bought their own house, they found a spot where
• 1:02:23
  that didn't do background checks or and that, and that's just the
• 1:02:27
  reality of the of the situation in America.
• 1:02:30
  And So what ends up happening is because the majority of folks
• 1:02:34
  are not everybody, a lot of us are thriving and we're kicking
• 1:02:37
  butt, right. And we have to take concessions
• 1:02:41
  a lot, right. Because, you know, you're not.
• 1:02:45
  I locked up and got into the nonprofit sector, in a part of
• 1:02:50
  the nonprofit sector where my experience was actually a plus
• 1:02:55
  and not a negative right. And.
• 1:02:58
  And a lot of people aren't. So they are underpaid and
• 1:03:01
  they're underappreciated, right. And they're taking jobs that,
• 1:03:05
  you know, are paying low wages. But they're working, right?
• 1:03:09
  Hey, they. Call it a felony discount.
• 1:03:10
  You know this guy's we could pay him less.
• 1:03:13
  I. Think he takes less and they're
• 1:03:15
  going to like these hard labour jobs.
• 1:03:17
  People like, Oh yeah, I work in construction.
• 1:03:20
  I got a job. One of the guys I know, he
• 1:03:23
  worked construction. This guy travels 2 hours, 2 1/2
• 1:03:26
  hours to work 2 1/2 hours back and he's won the high rise on a
• 1:03:30
  beam, right? He's like, yo, at least I'll
• 1:03:32
  make $100,000 and I'm like, dude, you know what I mean?
• 1:03:35
  Like that's that's what we have to do and we do it and we're
• 1:03:38
  thriving. And so people with records
• 1:03:40
  aren't for, we're not in poverty.
• 1:03:42
  We're just stuck with this never ending debt that gets in our way
• 1:03:47
  almost every single time we try to elevate.
• 1:03:50
  And we still, even though these 40,000 legal restrictions exist,
• 1:03:54
  we still go above and beyond and still hop over those hurdles and
• 1:03:58
  still are successful. We're not crying.
• 1:04:00
  We're not moaning about it. We're not asking for handouts.
• 1:04:03
  We're saying get out of our way. And that's what we found in this
• 1:04:06
  report. But we said, well, how do we
• 1:04:07
  make it easier for folks who have served their time, paid
• 1:04:11
  their debts to go home with their life and take care of
• 1:04:14
  themselves and their families? That's all we wanted to do.
• 1:04:17
  That's all I wanted to do. We're just like, I just want to
• 1:04:19
  be able to live in a of an apartment that doesn't have
• 1:04:22
  roaches. Correct.
• 1:04:23
  And that's what we asked for and get it.
• 1:04:25
  That's it. And we found out that the
• 1:04:28
  expungement apparatus, our record change apparatus in
• 1:04:32
  California, the whole system was crazy.
• 1:04:36
  It was nonsensical, it was costly and we would have to
• 1:04:41
  reverse engineer the entire thing.
• 1:04:44
  And that's what we came up with. So we had like 5 or 6
• 1:04:47
  recommendations. Repairing the Road to Redemption
• 1:04:50
  report, if you Google it, Repairing the Road to Redemption
• 1:04:52
  in California, you can download it off the Time done website or
• 1:04:56
  the Californian for Safety and Justice website.
• 1:04:59
  Right now you know it has the 27 co-authors on there.
• 1:05:05
  Christine Caramaggi was the main researcher on the project.
• 1:05:08
  She did an amazing job. The Raven group helped pull
• 1:05:11
  folks together. We had a really good research
• 1:05:13
  team and writing team, and the main policy person on it was
• 1:05:18
  John Cutler. He's like, my, I love John
• 1:05:20
  Cutler. And I remember after repairing
• 1:05:23
  the Road to Redemption report, we're like, OK, well, how do we
• 1:05:25
  get this out of here? How do we get this into the
• 1:05:28
  masses? And I said, well, we have to
• 1:05:29
  operationalize this. You have to really start a
• 1:05:31
  campaign. And we started to talk to people
• 1:05:35
  about second chances. And what we realized is that
• 1:05:37
  term rubs people the wrong way, right.
• 1:05:41
  If you talk to more kind of, I don't think conservative, but
• 1:05:45
  more folks who are like pull yourself up by your bootstraps,
• 1:05:49
  they're like, well, how many chances do you want to give
• 1:05:51
  people? And then you talk to the other
• 1:05:53
  people, like the more liberal leaning folks and they're like
• 1:05:57
  people never had a first chance, right.
• 1:05:59
  So we're like, yeah, so I'm like, I'm like, well, we are not
• 1:06:05
  going to call this second chances and we're trying to
• 1:06:10
  figure out what to call it. And I don't know who came up
• 1:06:14
  with the term, but it was like time done.
• 1:06:17
  And I said I love time. Done it was.
• 1:06:19
  Time. Because it, you know, it's
• 1:06:20
  whenever you come up with a good word or phrase like that, it it
• 1:06:24
  actually says what it is, you know, you know, time done means
• 1:06:27
  I'm done. I'm ready to move on.
• 1:06:29
  I want to live my life. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:32
  And so it the tag line was, when will my sentence end?
• 1:06:38
  And I'm like, well, how do we launch this thing?
• 1:06:41
  How do we tell people that we're going to actually go, How do we
• 1:06:45
  tell people that we're actually going to go and change all these
• 1:06:48
  laws, Right. And well, what about a concert?
• 1:06:53
  So we're like, OK, let's do a concert at the Glute Theatre in
• 1:06:59
  Los Angeles. And the only way you get in is
• 1:07:02
  that you got to have some sort of record, never been done
• 1:07:06
  before. So I was like, OK, Jay, go
• 1:07:08
  ahead. And I remember we had a
• 1:07:10
  headliner, it was TI this place seats.
• 1:07:14
  Like how many people? 6000 people.
• 1:07:18
  I mean, you pack it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:21
  So we packed it. We had a headliner TI.
• 1:07:24
  The headliner pulled out. So concert number, formerly
• 1:07:29
  incarcerated people. We're going to announce that
• 1:07:32
  we're going to change the expungement process in
• 1:07:34
  California and free everybody, right?
• 1:07:37
  And we had a headliner, TI. We had the flyer printed.
• 1:07:41
  We're ready to go. We had the date, October 21st,
• 1:07:44
  2018, 7:00. We're rocking and rolling three
• 1:07:48
  weeks before the concert. TI pulls out.
• 1:07:51
  Everyone's freaking out, right? I pick up the phone.
• 1:07:55
  I call my man Joe Paul. I'm like, Joe Paul.
• 1:07:57
  I need a headliner. He's like, what about Nipsey
• 1:08:00
  Hussle? I'm like, let's do it.
• 1:08:03
  He called Nipsey's brother Black Sam.
• 1:08:05
  Black Sam's like, tell me about it.
• 1:08:08
  We tell Black Sam what it is. He's like, here goes what it's
• 1:08:11
  going to cost the benefit concert.
• 1:08:12
  We'll give you a discount. We're like, let's go, Nipsey's
• 1:08:16
  out a headliner. We get tie dollar sign, We get
• 1:08:19
  Guapa like, we get Ebro. We get, yes, your team.
• 1:08:22
  We have a crazy lineup. We get the Greater Dion Baptist
• 1:08:25
  Church Choir. We're rocking and rolling.
• 1:08:28
  You know, tickets are sold out. The day happened once, like 2
• 1:08:32
  weeks before. I'm like, we need something big.
• 1:08:35
  We need a statement. We need something that's going
• 1:08:37
  to tell the story of these 40,000 laws.
• 1:08:41
  Because every time that we talk about these 40,000 collateral
• 1:08:44
  consequences, people's eyes glaze over and they don't know
• 1:08:48
  what the hell we're talking about.
• 1:08:50
  So I'm like, let's just write them all on one big wall.
• 1:08:54
  This is the time where Trump was talking about building the wall.
• 1:08:58
  I'm like, let's build our own wall and write the actual code
• 1:09:02
  section, Penal Code, Section 12345.
• 1:09:06
  Felons can't adopt. I want that shit written out all
• 1:09:09
  over this wall. The the event manager comes back
• 1:09:12
  and says the wall's going to be 70 feet long, 30 feet high.
• 1:09:16
  It's going to cost you about 40 to $50,000 to deal.
• 1:09:21
  And I'm like, I go to my boss. I'm like, hey, this is going to
• 1:09:25
  be a hit. Let's put it in the budget.
• 1:09:27
  They're like, OK, Jay, let's do it.
• 1:09:30
  We built the massive wall. Put it right in front of the
• 1:09:34
  Greek Theater. You can literally read the code
• 1:09:38
  sections. Go up there and read.
• 1:09:40
  If you have a felony, you can't do this.
• 1:09:42
  You know health, Health and safety code 2345.
• 1:09:46
  You can't work in healthcare like these.
• 1:09:48
  Written all over the wall. People walk up and they see
• 1:09:52
  this. They start crying because they
• 1:09:54
  finally are being seen. People are finally, folks are
• 1:09:59
  finally able to have their story told in a way that it's not just
• 1:10:05
  them anymore. That you know how you've been
• 1:10:08
  saying, hey man, I see this little green guy every night and
• 1:10:11
  people are laughing at you until they see the little green guy.
• 1:10:14
  There he is. That's what it was.
• 1:10:15
  People are like, oh, that's me right there.
• 1:10:20
  So without people start pouring in, you know, folks are taking
• 1:10:23
  pictures with the wall. I mean, if you Google the wall
• 1:10:26
  of consequences, hashtag, time done, you're going to see this
• 1:10:29
  basketball, right? And so.
• 1:10:32
  You took it up. I mean, I'm jumping ahead of it.
• 1:10:33
  But you also took it up and and brought the lawmakers out to see
• 1:10:36
  this, Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:10:38
  Exactly right. And so there's walls there.
• 1:10:41
  We're at the Greek Theater. It's my time.
• 1:10:44
  They're like they get up there and make the big statement.
• 1:10:47
  I am scared usually. I don't get nervous in front of
• 1:10:50
  me. I can't.
• 1:10:50
  Imagine. You nervous?
• 1:10:51
  Yeah. I walk out and there's about
• 1:10:53
  like 4000 people out there scattered.
• 1:10:55
  Everyone's screaming. They're ready for the headline
• 1:10:57
  of the They just saw Ty Dolla. Fine, He killed it.
• 1:10:59
  They're ready for Nipsey. I get up there.
• 1:11:02
  I'm supposed to announce Nipsey, but I'm also supposed to talk
• 1:11:05
  about time done and what our goals are.
• 1:11:07
  I get up there, I'm shaking, you know, and there's a picture of
• 1:11:10
  me with everybody in front of me and got their phones out.
• 1:11:13
  And I'm like, and I'm like, we're going to free everybody in
• 1:11:16
  California. You're like, yeah.
• 1:11:20
  Look, I'm fucking my boss's face.
• 1:11:24
  What are you going to say and? We're going to do it in five.
• 1:11:28
  Years. I should put a number on it.
• 1:11:31
  Deadline and. So.
• 1:11:34
  That's a good way to set a goal. 56000 people giving a deadline.
• 1:11:40
  I'm like, and who wants to see Nipsey, right?
• 1:11:43
  And they're like Nip. She comes out.
• 1:11:46
  Does this set take pictures? We're talking about it.
• 1:11:49
  It was great. Next day we get a bunch of
• 1:11:53
  emails. I want to join.
• 1:11:55
  I want to join. 6000 people Join time.
• 1:11:57
  Done. That's awesome.
• 1:11:58
  Overnight, right? And it wasn't just people at the
• 1:12:01
  concert. It was people who were hearing
• 1:12:03
  about what we were doing all over the world.
• 1:12:04
  Like, I want to join Time Done. Let's rock'n'roll.
• 1:12:07
  I realized we got something. We start getting to work.
• 1:12:11
  I don't know what we're going to be, how we're going to change
• 1:12:13
  these walls. So I'm.
• 1:12:15
  I'm. I'm the next step was to bring
• 1:12:18
  all the attorneys together who've been working on this for
• 1:12:20
  years. Me and John Cutler do a tour all
• 1:12:23
  around California talking to attorneys.
• 1:12:27
  Eliza Hirsch was a part of it, and she's like awesome human
• 1:12:34
  being. I love Eliza, Sarah Crawley,
• 1:12:38
  those two really. Sarah Crawley, Eliza Hirsch and
• 1:12:41
  John Cutler really held me up during that time because for
• 1:12:44
  like 8 months we would go around and talk to these, like, record
• 1:12:48
  change attorneys who would tell us we're crazy and we couldn't
• 1:12:51
  do it and it was too costly. And who are you?
• 1:12:54
  And I almost like to fight one of these guys.
• 1:12:56
  He got really upset and I was telling him we're going to do
• 1:12:58
  it. And he's like, I've been working
• 1:12:59
  on this for years and you don't know nothing.
• 1:13:02
  I'm like, bro, listen, you want to go outside, bro?
• 1:13:04
  Like, we can actually like, I can show you what I'm capable
• 1:13:07
  of, right? He took me all out of my cap,
• 1:13:09
  all of my character. But I was so pissed off at this
• 1:13:12
  guy. He ended up apologizing when we
• 1:13:14
  passed it, I bet. So he thought that, you know
• 1:13:18
  what, I'm just going to draw it out.
• 1:13:21
  So I did some like, you know, actually drew it out.
• 1:13:24
  And I drew out what I called the post sentence record matrix.
• 1:13:27
  I threw out on a piece of paper and I sent it to John Cutler and
• 1:13:31
  I'm like, John, this is it. This is what this is what it
• 1:13:38
  should be. And he's like, this is really
• 1:13:41
  good. Let me chew on this.
• 1:13:43
  And that became what we called Sunset, which is the concept
• 1:13:47
  that they talked about prior like, hey, this concept of
• 1:13:50
  sunsets. And but it didn't really have
• 1:13:52
  formality. So we drew it out, called the,
• 1:13:54
  posted this record matrix. I drew it out.
• 1:13:57
  Don Cutler made it real. In terms of policy, we start to
• 1:13:59
  like write the policy. I was writing.
• 1:14:01
  He was writing and we tried it for the first time.
• 1:14:05
  It was penal. It was Senate Bill 1298.
• 1:14:10
  We got the fiscal note back, which is how much it's going to
• 1:14:12
  cost from the from the Appropriations Committee.
• 1:14:15
  And they told us it was going to cost about a billion dollars of
• 1:14:17
  some crazy stuff. And we're like, OK, we need to
• 1:14:20
  like, do some narrative shifting here.
• 1:14:22
  So we got with Code for America, Yvonne Silva, Milani Aaliyah,
• 1:14:32
  Those folks really were like, let's do some design thinking.
• 1:14:35
  They came down to my house in LA We're all Indian style writing
• 1:14:38
  stuff on the wall, really trying to reverse engineer the entire
• 1:14:42
  California expungement system from the ground up.
• 1:14:45
  Literally every single piece of it.
• 1:14:47
  And I'm like, let's do this, let's do that.
• 1:14:48
  Had all these ideas and they're like, let's make it human
• 1:14:51
  centered. And I said, OK, this is what
• 1:14:54
  we're going to do. We finally set on a really good
• 1:14:56
  set of policies. We knew what we had to do.
• 1:15:00
  We knew that, you know, a lot of the Department of Justice didn't
• 1:15:03
  even know about the system. The court system didn't really
• 1:15:06
  understand it. No one really understand it but
• 1:15:08
  us, you know, and then we partnered with George got George
• 1:15:13
  Gascon and and Max Zabos. Max became like a a force to be
• 1:15:17
  reckoned with in terms of like really putting the the the foot
• 1:15:22
  on the pedal and and ensuring that the Department of Justice
• 1:15:26
  wasn't and inflating numbers in terms of what it was going to
• 1:15:28
  cost. Code for America newbie
• 1:15:29
  algorithm. I'm like I knew the process like
• 1:15:32
  the back of my hand and we went to battle we went to war and I'm
• 1:15:35
  like the first thing you got to do.
• 1:15:36
  Y'all if you have to bring this wall to Sacramento.
• 1:15:40
  I love it. I want people to understand
• 1:15:42
  because we're going to have a lot of opposition.
• 1:15:45
  And before we even start, Brent, I'm like, before we even start,
• 1:15:49
  I want the police chief, I want the sheriff.
• 1:15:53
  I want the DASI want CHPI want anybody who thinks about
• 1:15:57
  opposing this on the grounds of the criminality, right, and
• 1:16:01
  letting criminals run free. I want to explain this to him
• 1:16:04
  before we even get started. Let's bring the wall here and
• 1:16:07
  I'll call my guy Craig Craig Weeda from render, from Render
• 1:16:11
  events. He's like, he's like my guy.
• 1:16:13
  He says, I'm like Craig, so I want to bring the wall to
• 1:16:19
  Sacramento. He's like, what do they keep
• 1:16:21
  talking about? Do you know how much it takes,
• 1:16:23
  how crazy it was to deal with that thing?
• 1:16:25
  I'm like, yeah, let's bring it to Sacramento.
• 1:16:27
  I want to shut down a whole street.
• 1:16:29
  And so we shut down the street right in front of the Capitol,
• 1:16:33
  right in front of the state Capitol.
• 1:16:34
  And we built this massive 70 foot long by 30 foot high wall
• 1:16:39
  on these big huge Truss. And the Truss were like 4 feet,
• 1:16:42
  5 feet by themselves. So the wall in the being like 40
• 1:16:45
  feet or 35 to 40 feet high, right And we invited all of the
• 1:16:50
  potential opposition to our five year campaign we were going to
• 1:16:53
  have. This was in 2019 and that
• 1:17:00
  morning they all came out, all of them.
• 1:17:04
  And I told the story of how we got to the collateral
• 1:17:07
  consequences and I haven't stand far away and I have this video,
• 1:17:10
  it's really good video. I'm like stand far away.
• 1:17:12
  So they couldn't see it. They're like what is all that
• 1:17:14
  stuff like you have to walk up on it to read the writing.
• 1:17:17
  So I'm like, I'm talking about, you know, the Hawker verse, the
• 1:17:21
  state of New York, and the first time the US Supreme Court made a
• 1:17:25
  decision around post conviction, collateral consequences and
• 1:17:29
  saying that we are a bad moral character forever so we can
• 1:17:31
  never be redeemed. It's a Supreme Court case.
• 1:17:34
  I'm like, I can never be redeemed.
• 1:17:36
  Come a little closer. Then I went from the macro to
• 1:17:39
  the micro, talk about my own story, my own hopes and dreams
• 1:17:43
  that were crushed. Because it's idea that I can
• 1:17:45
  never be redeemed, ever. In the state of California.
• 1:17:48
  I can never be whole. I can never be human again.
• 1:17:51
  Come a little closer and come a little closer until we got,
• 1:17:55
  until they got to the wall and I said now read it and they read
• 1:17:58
  it and they're like, this is crazy.
• 1:18:00
  People can't do all this stuff. I'm like, exactly.
• 1:18:03
  That's what we're changing. Do not get in our way.
• 1:18:05
  That's awesome. Took us five years from that
• 1:18:09
  point. It took us three bills, two
• 1:18:11
  budget plays, but we changed the entire expungement system in
• 1:18:16
  California right now. A.
• 1:18:19
  Single person, every single person brick in the state of
• 1:18:23
  California have a pathway to expungement.
• 1:18:26
  If you have a criminal record and you did not go to prison,
• 1:18:29
  and you have completed probation and you've been out two years
• 1:18:33
  crime free, California is going to automatically expunge your
• 1:18:36
  record. If you did go to prison and
• 1:18:38
  you've been out two years crime free, all you have to do is fill
• 1:18:42
  out a piece of paper, follow the directions, follow with the
• 1:18:45
  court, and by and by law, they have to grant your expungement.
• 1:18:50
  And you were one of the first ones, if not the first ones, to
• 1:18:53
  actually do that. They didn't know what to do with
• 1:18:55
  you, Jay. Yeah, I was the first one to
• 1:18:57
  file for Per. I'm literally was like, yo, I'm
• 1:19:00
  going to pressure test this. This is something that we did.
• 1:19:03
  Me a whole lot of other people did.
• 1:19:05
  I'm going to pressure test this thing.
• 1:19:07
  I'm going to follow it by myself with the help of Rebecca from
• 1:19:10
  the public defender's office. Amazing, amazing woman, Eduardo,
• 1:19:16
  all these people. We walked up to Stockton
• 1:19:19
  courthouse. We filed our paperwork and we
• 1:19:21
  went into the court. About three or four months later
• 1:19:24
  we went into the court and we like some of us like gang
• 1:19:28
  affiliations, attempted murder. We're like we're not going to
• 1:19:30
  get our record expunged. And and the judge was a visiting
• 1:19:34
  judge from Kern County. They called Kern County Hangman
• 1:19:37
  County. They call Kern County, Hangman
• 1:19:40
  County. You know what that means?
• 1:19:42
  They are giving football numbers out when you get convicted.
• 1:19:45
  There was no way this visiting judge was going to expand all of
• 1:19:49
  our records. Some had attempted murder and
• 1:19:52
  gang affiliation. The judge said the first person
• 1:19:56
  goes up. I'm sweating.
• 1:19:57
  My dad's there. He's praying.
• 1:19:59
  My my wife is there. My kids are there.
• 1:20:01
  We're all like, nervous. The public defender who's been
• 1:20:04
  helping us is like, we have to continue this.
• 1:20:06
  This judge is not going to be good to us.
• 1:20:09
  The judge says DA, do you have any objection to the first case?
• 1:20:12
  He said the way the law is written and the law is written
• 1:20:15
  really well, we cannot object based on our own feelings.
• 1:20:20
  We only can inform the court if this person has any new
• 1:20:23
  convictions. And I'm here to inform you this
• 1:20:24
  person has no new convictions, therefore I have no objection.
• 1:20:27
  And what was it was two years the incentive to to be out, not
• 1:20:30
  to re offend? Two years.
• 1:20:33
  Two years. OK, two years and the judge
• 1:20:35
  expanded one after the next expands all our convictions and
• 1:20:38
  we were like whoa, what just happened?
• 1:20:41
  What just happened And literally people started to file all over
• 1:20:46
  California and folks are getting their are getting their record
• 1:20:48
  expun the automatic process they've expunged posted 20 to 30
• 1:20:53
  million records automatically already and they're just getting
• 1:20:56
  started. And then people with who with
• 1:20:59
  felonies who did go to prison folks are starting to like filed
• 1:21:03
  with the court and it's getting crazy and folks are getting
• 1:21:05
  free. You know, if you have a record.
• 1:21:07
  Now what does expungement mean? The way we wrote it, Brent, we
• 1:21:11
  wrote it based on my story to be like to be totally honest, I
• 1:21:16
  said listen, I can no longer in my right mind continue to pass
• 1:21:21
  laws and not be free. And we were passing laws left
• 1:21:24
  and right. You know the organization passed
• 1:21:27
  100 laws in 10 years. Me, I was responsible for.
• 1:21:32
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and like my tenure, it was
• 1:21:36
  about, it was about, it was about about 50 laws that I was
• 1:21:42
  responsible for, right? Or like working alongside and
• 1:21:45
  raising money and doing a bunch of stuff.
• 1:21:47
  And so all those laws didn't affect me.
• 1:21:50
  And so we wrote this because I'm like, I have to get free, you
• 1:21:54
  know, I have to get free. I'm tired.
• 1:21:56
  And I kept going back to that first time sitting in that chair
• 1:21:58
  where Perk was telling me out of prison.
• 1:22:04
  Yeah, I said, you know what? I'm going to change it.
• 1:22:06
  I'm going to change it. It may take me a long time.
• 1:22:08
  It took me about 10 years to change it, you know, But I
• 1:22:11
  didn't give up. And I wrote my own tickets.
• 1:22:13
  And I wrote the tickets for every single person in
• 1:22:15
  California. And we didn't stop ARC.
• 1:22:19
  Homeboy Industries joined the fight.
• 1:22:21
  And people were joining the fight and we were winning and we
• 1:22:23
  won. And it feels really, really good
• 1:22:25
  to finally be free. You know, I was there when the
• 1:22:28
  governor signed the bill. I have pictures of him signing
• 1:22:30
  it. And I told him what it meant for
• 1:22:32
  him to sign that I have the actual pin and the law that he
• 1:22:35
  signed, you know. And after I got free, I decided,
• 1:22:39
  you know, I'm done. I did it.
• 1:22:42
  I got free. So.
• 1:22:43
  It's it's it's unbelievable when you read through it.
• 1:22:45
  And I, before we, I want to ask you a question about how we can
• 1:22:49
  get this and connect Dots across the nation before I do.
• 1:22:53
  I I I forgot I got so inshalled with what you're talking about.
• 1:22:56
  I forgot to recognize my show sponsor, Neimer Success Podcast
• 1:23:00
  is sponsored by the White Collar Support Group, the world's first
• 1:23:02
  support group devoted to people navigating the White Collar
• 1:23:05
  criminal justice system. I'm a member of the White Collar
• 1:23:07
  Support Group, and I tell you, this is a bunch of people who
• 1:23:10
  help each other through the criminal justice journey for
• 1:23:12
  free. Whether you're just starting
• 1:23:14
  your journey or you've made it through on the other side, it's
• 1:23:17
  a great space for you. You can join us on Zoom Monday,
• 1:23:20
  7:00 PM Eastern Time, 4:00 PM in Pacific.
• 1:23:23
  For information, go to prisonest.org.
• 1:23:26
  That's prisonest.org. Start here.
• 1:23:30
  So Jay, after doing all this, you know, one of the great
• 1:23:33
  things that I get to do sitting in this seat is I get to talk to
• 1:23:36
  a lot of people that are doing incredibly impactful things.
• 1:23:40
  But it's in their place. You know, like Michigan's got a
• 1:23:44
  lot of really cool things and ban the box and the stuff with
• 1:23:46
  housing, stuff like that. And there's all kinds of
• 1:23:49
  different places. And what you've done in
• 1:23:50
  California, what, what do you think it takes for us to create
• 1:23:55
  the umbrella of the effect of a card carrying AARP?
• 1:23:59
  But it's ex felons that, that get their rights, whether you
• 1:24:04
  live in Mississippi or Alabama or California or Michigan.
• 1:24:07
  What, what does it take? What's it?
• 1:24:09
  How? How?
• 1:24:10
  How do we get that voice to be powerful enough to create a
• 1:24:13
  tidal wave? Yeah, so there are two things.
• 1:24:18
  There are two organizations right now that are doing
• 1:24:21
  tremendous work. So one is headed up by Sheena
• 1:24:25
  Mead. Sheena Mead is a sport.
• 1:24:28
  She is amazing and she runs the Clean Slate Initiative.
• 1:24:32
  Yeah, I've heard big money back, big money backs it.
• 1:24:36
  And they are responsible and will be responsible for
• 1:24:40
  expansive policies in all 50 states.
• 1:24:42
  And they're not going to lose. They're literally winning right
• 1:24:45
  now. So no matter what state you're
• 1:24:47
  in, they're coming. Your way.
• 1:24:49
  They're coming. The wave is coming.
• 1:24:51
  Already started. The wave is coming.
• 1:24:53
  I mean, you know, look, I was, you know, California is a little
• 1:24:57
  bit different because you know they had me and Ingrid and you
• 1:25:00
  had your. Fashion behind it and in a great
• 1:25:03
  voice, and there's no way not to listen to you and get caught up
• 1:25:06
  in the excitement and the passion that you have.
• 1:25:10
  But what's your? What do you think of your next
• 1:25:13
  step is on your journey? So I'll say it first here.
• 1:25:19
  You talked about nationally. Yeah, this is happening in
• 1:25:27
  almost every country in the world.
• 1:25:30
  Yes, in India, if you have a record, it's difficult for you
• 1:25:35
  to find a job. In China, if you have a record,
• 1:25:37
  it's difficult for you to find a job in France, in the UK, in
• 1:25:42
  South Africa, in in in, in, in in Canada and Australia.
• 1:25:47
  This is happening to people all around the world. close to 1/2 a
• 1:25:51
  billion if not more people have records in this world and they
• 1:25:56
  are not being. The narrative is not being
• 1:25:58
  connected. We're so focused on the national
• 1:26:01
  frame, but what is happening is we can't even travel to a lot of
• 1:26:03
  these countries would be out of, you know, so we can't even go
• 1:26:06
  and yeah, we can't even go and get right.
• 1:26:10
  We can't even go on politics and help them.
• 1:26:12
  So my next move is to pull people together who are working
• 1:26:16
  on this issue from these major countries and help to develop a
• 1:26:20
  platform and a plan to put pressure on the UN to bring down
• 1:26:25
  a revolution. To say this is what on the right
• 1:26:28
  to be rehabilitated looks like and we should be able to travel
• 1:26:33
  to different countries. Our senses have to be completed
• 1:26:36
  after our time is done. And that's my next step is to
• 1:26:39
  ensure that what we did in California spread all across the
• 1:26:42
  globe. I love it, Jay.
• 1:26:44
  I want to know, So you've been on this unbelievable journey.
• 1:26:49
  I mean, it's like we just watched a movie here in part
• 1:26:51
  one, Part 2, where you are now in your life.
• 1:26:56
  What do you think's your biggest take away from this journey
• 1:26:59
  you've been on listeners out there?
• 1:27:05
  My biggest take away is value extraction.
• 1:27:10
  You know this this rule of have like these rules I've I've
• 1:27:14
  created and when I write the book they're all they're all
• 1:27:17
  being there. You know the the rule of value
• 1:27:20
  extraction that no matter what situation you are in, there's a
• 1:27:26
  value. Because you are in that
• 1:27:29
  situation, The situation inherently has value.
• 1:27:33
  You inherently have value, right?
• 1:27:36
  And I've been able to use that insanely optimistic point of
• 1:27:42
  view to grab value from the depth of society, which is the
• 1:27:48
  whole and like, gain tremendous value in the deepest, darkest
• 1:27:53
  pit you can be in in a given society.
• 1:27:56
  And if I can extract value out of that, then no matter what
• 1:27:59
  situation you find yourself in, whether it's being homeless,
• 1:28:03
  whether it's being addicted, whether it's being jobless,
• 1:28:05
  whether it's like divorce or losing a loved one, there's an
• 1:28:09
  insane amount of value in that situation.
• 1:28:12
  You just have to be still trusting yourself.
• 1:28:15
  Become introspective, block up all external forces and you will
• 1:28:19
  find value. And that problem that you're
• 1:28:22
  facing inherently can transform into an idea that can change the
• 1:28:28
  world. And I think that's exactly how
• 1:28:30
  you've handled things from the moment that you got out because
• 1:28:33
  it if if you would have taken those three gut punches and then
• 1:28:38
  a fourth gut punch, there's there's two places to go there.
• 1:28:43
  One, as I'm a victim and I'm going to curl up, I'm going to
• 1:28:46
  point fingers. I'm going to blame everybody.
• 1:28:48
  And I give up. Or you take the Jay Jordan
• 1:28:52
  approach, You're a survivor. You look for solutions.
• 1:28:55
  You look for where you can be of value and you step forward.
• 1:28:59
  And it's not easy. It's not going to be easy and
• 1:29:01
  never was easy. Everything you just talked about
• 1:29:03
  was none of that was easy. Even the headliner left after
• 1:29:07
  you guys had the stuff for it. I mean, and you still packed the
• 1:29:09
  place. So I mean always, even if you're
• 1:29:11
  doing stuff really, really good, there's stuff that happens and
• 1:29:15
  you just got to deal with it and you still, you know, you just
• 1:29:18
  don't give up on it. And that's why I was so drawn to
• 1:29:21
  your story, Jay, is you had so many things that you didn't know
• 1:29:28
  and you didn't stop you. You just said how am I going to
• 1:29:30
  figure it out? Because people get they they
• 1:29:32
  there were people along your Rd. that believed in you.
• 1:29:35
  They saw something in you and they said you can figure it out,
• 1:29:37
  Jay. And you were like, OK, yeah, I
• 1:29:40
  guess I can figure it out. And you did.
• 1:29:42
  And I I. That's one of the messages I
• 1:29:44
  want people to get from this is there's a lot of people out
• 1:29:46
  there listening. They get stuck.
• 1:29:48
  You know, they build up prisons in their own mind.
• 1:29:51
  The biggest thing, and we call this thing nightmare, success,
• 1:29:54
  because you have to walk through your fears to get to where you
• 1:29:56
  want to go. Each time you were presented
• 1:29:59
  with something you didn't know, you didn't stop.
• 1:30:01
  You just walked into it and you figured it out.
• 1:30:04
  And you might have not have figured it out the first day,
• 1:30:06
  but you figured it out. And that's, that's that secret
• 1:30:09
  sauce to whatever that intangible thing is, to finally
• 1:30:13
  get something that you, you've added value to, you've made an
• 1:30:17
  impact with. Because it's not easy to get
• 1:30:19
  there. It's not easy.
• 1:30:20
  You just can't. You just don't wake up and say
• 1:30:22
  I'm changed. I've changed the world.
• 1:30:24
  It's all good now. It just doesn't work that way.
• 1:30:30
  But it's good stuff, Jay. And man, I appreciate you being
• 1:30:33
  on what's, as far as I know, Instagram, Mr., Mr., Jay Jordan,
• 1:30:42
  anywhere else that people want to help Jay, where should they
• 1:30:44
  go? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm very
• 1:30:48
  responsive. I've always been.
• 1:30:51
  We used to get hundreds of emails at times down.
• 1:30:54
  When I worked today as Jay, we used to get hundreds of emails
• 1:30:58
  and I hate to answer him. I count that as one for me.
• 1:31:04
  I, I, I direct messaged you, and you responded back to me.
• 1:31:08
  Yeah, I I get a lot of direct messages.
• 1:31:11
  Anything that you do. Got this crazy white guy from
• 1:31:15
  Saint Louis. And I answer him I don't have a
• 1:31:18
  team. I used to have a team.
• 1:31:20
  I don't have a team now. So if I don't get back but you
• 1:31:23
  can hit me up on Mr. J Jordan Felt all the way out Mister to
• 1:31:27
  AYJYDAN across all platforms. LinkedIn, J&J George, you can go
• 1:31:33
  to centerforsocialgood.com that's the organization we're
• 1:31:37
  building to help nonprofits and build the ecosystem.
• 1:31:41
  So if you have. Time Don's out there.
• 1:31:45
  Time Don is out there too. Time done is definitely out
• 1:31:46
  there. Ingrid.
• 1:31:47
  Archie runs. Time Done now, but I'm retired.
• 1:31:49
  Amazing Again, you can have time down.
• 1:31:52
  The greatest beard. I see it right here for all of
• 1:31:54
  you. I'm.
• 1:31:57
  Available. I'm ready.
• 1:31:58
  And if you need support, man, I'm always going to be an
• 1:32:01
  advocate for people who you know on the other side of the law.
• 1:32:04
  When don't we get? When don't we doing the book,
• 1:32:05
  When's the book? Are you working on it?
• 1:32:08
  It's right now. We're writing it now, like all.
• 1:32:10
  Right. We're going to be looking for
• 1:32:11
  that I bet. I bet it's going to have a good
• 1:32:14
  title too. I can't imagine what would be.
• 1:32:15
  It would be good. Hey if if anybody else is
• 1:32:18
  looking for a book out there I've got one.
• 1:32:19
  Check it out on nightmare success.
• 1:32:21
  Barnes and Noble man I I love what you guys are doing.
• 1:32:25
  Leaving reviews on on the Apple that whatever that algorithm
• 1:32:29
  thing is all about. It really pumps the show.
• 1:32:31
  Really appreciate that. If you want to know anything
• 1:32:34
  else going on, check out my website brentcassie.com.
• 1:32:37
  Spell it wrong. The the cool guys do it with a
• 1:32:39
  DY Mine's Aty Cassidy, as I used to say when I was writing my
• 1:32:44
  emails back and forth from Leavenworth.
• 1:32:46
  Stay strong, I'll do the same. Jay Jordan my man.
• 1:32:50
  Thanks so much for being on the show part one and two.
• 1:32:53
  Thanks. For having me, Brett?
• 1:32:56
  Nightmare. Success in and out.