Latest / The Curve / RTC31: Financial success and fashion (without fu*king up the planet)!

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RTC31: Financial success and fashion (without fu*king up the planet)! · The Curve

• 0:00
  Pathfinder Kiwi Saver Plan is the amazing sponsor of this many series. They are proud to help you save your future without it costing the earth.
• 0:08
  You can grow your individual wealth while also caring about the collective well-being of the planner.
• 0:12
  Pathfinder asset management limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder Kiwi Saver Plan.
• 0:16
  So you can head to Pathfinder.kiwi for more information and their product disclosure statement or check out the link in our show notes.
• 0:23
  Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money, their money for the future they want to have.
• 0:31
  We're all busy and the pursuit for financial confidence and increasing your wealth should be a simple one.
• 0:37
  This podcast is for women to learn about investing in a non-scary or intimidating way.
• 0:43
  With short episodes you'll have time to learn, digest and understand everything to do with the world of investing.
• 0:49
  So thank you for being here and for listening. Because together we really can raise the curve.
• 0:57
  This is very exciting. It is.
• 0:59
  We haven't been recording our podcast in months. I know, I've missed you.
• 1:03
  I see you and don't you like every second of every day.
• 1:07
  No, but it's exciting because we've got a guest in studio. We've got ethically Kate here.
• 1:12
  And we're doing a mini series. So normally our podcast is we have Race in the Curve, which we have like 14 episodes for every season.
• 1:20
  But this is actually a four part interview series with really inspiring, amazing woman who bring a different lens to conscious investing specifically.
• 1:29
  So ethically Kate is a real advocate in this space. So we feel very honored to have you here.
• 1:35
  It is my honor to be here.
• 1:37
  It took us a really long time to set up the studio. So thanks for being patient.
• 1:41
  You're all worth it. You're beautiful signs, everything.
• 1:44
  This is the first time of you. They're quite cool.
• 1:47
  It's tickers.
• 1:49
  I showed someone I was like, which design do you like better? And they're like, what is it?
• 1:53
  I was like, it's stock tickers.
• 1:55
  It's stock tickers because this is about finance and investing.
• 1:59
  So Kate is an educator activist and blogger who advocates for living in a way that respects and protects not only the planet,
• 2:06
  but also its people. And she's super passionate about investing sustainably in fashion.
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  So she speaks in schools and workplaces. She's actually grace the TEDx stage. Isn't that amazing?
• 2:16
  Wow. I know that is goals.
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  But she's here today to chat to us about investing and our wardrobes and how we can make sure that we're putting our money behind the right brands.
• 2:27
  It's actually quite funny because our audience, I hope this doesn't sound vain,
• 2:31
  but like a lot of people that send us DMs on Instagram. Most of the questions are like,
• 2:35
  why aren't you wearing wears it from?
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  They're like, I know I shouldn't be asking this, but where is the top from?
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  We're like, I won't invest in clothes, but just curious, where is it from?
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  You do look pretty good though.
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  You have got so much.
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  Like, really good. So I'm not surprised for this comment.
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  But then closely, I would say it's followed by questions about conscious investing, which is quite the right.
• 2:54
  Honestly, like people I think are really, really starting to become quite aware of
• 2:59
  not only like using your kick-up in the weekend or your reusable drink bottle, but also voting with your wallet.
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  Where did that be on a consumer buying certain products?
• 3:09
  And then now that people are starting to come around to the idea of investing your money in bigger ways,
• 3:15
  people are starting to care more, which is I think, well amongst our community anyway.
• 3:20
  Yeah, we're definitely seeing people using their kick-ups and worried about the impact on the environment from a consumer level,
• 3:26
  but starting to realise that you can actually do that at an investor level as well, which is awesome,
• 3:31
  because some people also might invest in oil companies and plastic manufacturers and then be rolling around
• 3:37
  being like, but I've got my keep-cup and it's like, hang on a second, don't quite align.
• 3:41
  But yeah.
• 3:42
  I think we all have those blind spots, no two.
• 3:45
  Like, the Tandall things is a keep-cup, right?
• 3:47
  For me anyway, like, I was heroing, like, plastic-free pantries,
• 3:52
  and not that my pantry is plastic-free, but low-waste.
• 3:55
  You know, living lots of cute jars, stuff like that.
• 3:58
  They're almost matched.
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  Not as cute as your Pinterest, you know, up there, but I would say it's pretty good.
• 4:04
  I think it'd be cute in the mind.
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  Mine's looking pretty shabby at the moment.
• 4:09
  A shabby one is good because it knows you've not gone out and bought new jars to look good.
• 4:15
  But like I was doing that since 2015 was when I started hitting along this journey.
• 4:21
  Actually, it's not like a lifelong thing.
• 4:23
  It's like you grew up in a family that was super conscious.
• 4:26
  My family are quite conscious.
• 4:28
  You know, in hindsight, you become an adult and you're like,
• 4:31
  oh wow, like, I've composted my whole life and I just literally thought
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  everyone had rubbish bin in the compost bin.
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  Or like, oh wow, like, I didn't know that people thought second-hand chopping was like for poor people.
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  And it was dirty.
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  Do you know what I mean?
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  That was not, yeah.
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  So, yes, I definitely do grew up with a family with an environmental and conscious,
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  and particularly socially conscious mindset.
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  But yeah, it wasn't until then, like, 2015.
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  It was like a catalyst moment.
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  But I was so shocked when I learned about, like, I didn't actually know where my keyboard was.
• 5:07
  Like, I didn't, honestly, like, hardly knew what it was, let alone where it was.
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  And then I'm going, oh my gosh, I'm such a hypocrite.
• 5:16
  Like, I've been doing all this lovely immediate stuff.
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  I've got my cute jars in my purse.
• 5:21
  I have no idea what my Kiwi said.
• 5:22
  Exactly.
• 5:23
  Like, I'm caring so much about who may make clothes.
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  Like, where's my waist go?
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  You know, all those sorts of things.
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  Right on my bike.
• 5:30
  Like, and talking about voting with your wallet.
• 5:32
  But it's like so different if you have a, I don't know, a hundred-dollar t-shirt
• 5:37
  or even like a three-dollar bamboo toothbrush.
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  That amount of money to the amount of money if you have the privilege of having savings
• 5:44
  and investments.
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  Like, that's so huge.
• 5:47
  Like, I could rather someone didn't have a plastic free pantry and actually diagnosed it from, you know.
• 5:53
  It's quite funny.
• 5:54
  You say that because, I mean, I've been on Vick for a while about, for example,
• 5:58
  a takeaway coffee cup rumble.
• 5:59
  I was like, there was a time there where I was quite annoying about it.
• 6:03
  Yeah.
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  No cup, no coffee.
• 6:05
  Yeah. And Vick would, like, hide things from me.
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  Oh, sorry, I shouldn't have had this.
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  But actually, if I look at her job and watch this for a living, I mean, the amount of money
• 6:15
  that you're channeling into supporting businesses that are doing good in the world,
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  like, that's monumental compared to the idea of coffee.
• 6:22
  No, no, no.
• 6:23
  There's a place for it, although, like, you have to have those little things,
• 6:27
  or they're hugely symbolic.
• 6:29
  But the big things too, it's just...
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  And it's kind of like everyone's doing their bit, you know.
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  But it's like, if you're working just keep doing better, that'd be great.
• 6:37
  But you're not alone, though, with the whole Kiwis, everything,
• 6:39
  and not knowing where your money is.
• 6:40
  There are so many people out there that are in the same boat and don't realise
• 6:45
  that there are a lot of Kiwis, they have providers that are investing money
• 6:49
  in unethical or irresponsible companies that don't align with their values.
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  So it's really good to have conversations like this and realise
• 6:57
  that people need to get in touch with their Kiwis.
• 6:59
  And they're like, hey, excuse me.
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  Where is my money being invested?
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  Because it's your money.
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  It's like, you're allowed to know that kind of stuff.
• 7:05
  So I love that sentence about, you're allowed to know that kind of stuff.
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  Because often, like, with your investment,
• 7:11
  so you think people don't talk about this stuff.
• 7:13
  So I can't ask them, they're such a large corporation,
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  they won't reply to my email.
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  And same with clothes too.
• 7:19
  People like consumers are so passive.
• 7:22
  And we're so passive around things like KiwiSaver or who we're banking with.
• 7:27
  You know, where those things go.
• 7:28
  And we actually had a lot of power in the situation.
• 7:30
  Yeah, people go, oh, I'm not going to ask those questions.
• 7:34
  And I think it's the whole thing with social media as well,
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  is that we can now all, it's so easy for information to flow around,
• 7:40
  everyone to band together and be like, hey, that company uses child labour
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  or that company has a really bad impact on the environment.
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  So we're not going to invest in that.
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  And then everyone else sees that and jumps on their bandwagon.
• 7:52
  So it's kind of this whole power to the people type thing.
• 7:55
  Also backtracking to what you said about not even really knowing what your KiwiSaver was.
• 7:59
  I remember when we first started to curve.
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  And Vick and I were brainstorming because we started with events.
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  And there was like 30 people at our first event.
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  And I remember that thing like, oh, we should talk about KiwiSaver.
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  And I was like, boring.
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  Next thing.
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  Who cares about KiwiSaver?
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  Like honestly, I didn't even know what it was.
• 8:14
  Yeah.
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  I remember genuinely not really understanding.
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  I knew it was for savings.
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  But I didn't even realize that that money was being invested in stocks.
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  Totally.
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  I had no idea.
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  That was exactly the same.
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  And I relate this to the fact that like,
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  most people pee in the shower.
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  But no one's talking about it.
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  Do you pee in the shower?
• 8:33
  No.
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  Totally don't go.
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  Yeah.
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  I don't all the time.
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  Is there like once?
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  Are you joking?
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  I always pee in the shower.
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  Do you pee in the shower?
• 8:41
  Absolutely.
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  Because I just wake up and go to the bathroom and then I'll go and like feed the dog out.
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  It's way nice.
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  And then I'll go to the shower.
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  So I think if I go up and just shower straight away, then I probably won't.
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  But I just like need to get up.
• 8:52
  Oh my God.
• 8:53
  You're not actively avoiding the shower.
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  It's just that I pee before.
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  Okay.
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  And then I go to the shower out.
• 8:59
  Yeah.
• 9:00
  Actually, just to summarize, peeing in the shower is apparently not good for your pelvic floor.
• 9:04
  So it's not recommended for your health.
• 9:06
  But I use one of those JDX's strength in my pelvic floor.
• 9:08
  Oh.
• 9:09
  All sorted.
• 9:10
  Okay.
• 9:11
  How, why and how are we talking about peeing in the shower?
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  Because it's something that like most people do.
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  I know this because when I ask people, they say yes.
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  And when I've done polls on my Instagram stories where thousands of people answer.
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  Most people say yes.
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  And everyone's bashful about it and like you don't want to talk about it.
• 9:29
  Most people have a kiwi saver.
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  But no one's actually talking about the fact they don't know where it is.
• 9:35
  It's like that, yeah, things that everyone does.
• 9:38
  But you think, oh my gosh, I don't want to admit to peeing in the shower.
• 9:42
  Oh my gosh, I don't want to admit that I don't know what kiwi saver is.
• 9:45
  That's a something that I reckon across in terms of investing in general.
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  I think that it's across everything.
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  Whether it be houses, whether it be investing in stocks, whether it be kiwi saver.
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  Honestly, savings.
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  We're too embarrassed to admit that we don't know what we're talking about.
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  Because it's like, I think as well, there's this view of being an adult,
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  means having your finances sorted.
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  Having a ship sorted.
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  So like, if you, if for some reason you admit that you don't know,
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  it's like, oh, well, how are you?
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  I'm running up to your life.
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  Well, also, it's the people that do that talk about it and talk down to you about it.
• 10:18
  And so therefore, you feel even less like you can say that you don't have it sorted.
• 10:22
  Totally.
• 10:23
  When I realized that kiwi saver thing, and I almost felt like embarrassed talking about the fact.
• 10:28
  So this is like end of 2019, start of 2020.
• 10:32
  So you just actually have done a cotton line.
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  And that was when I was like, oh my gosh, kiwi saver.
• 10:37
  Well, and I talked to people like, pathfinder, I was like learning about things.
• 10:42
  And then when I was going to then share, okay.
• 10:45
  Now I know what kiwi saver is.
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  I'm just talking about it.
• 10:48
  This is who I've chosen.
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  It was like, yeah, I'd just be like, okay.
• 10:51
  There's going to be some people going, what?
• 10:53
  I thought, you know, she was an expert in sustainable living.
• 10:56
  And you assume that every kiwi saver provider is going to invest in the way that you would invest.
• 11:01
  Yeah.
• 11:02
  And that's the, that's the weirdest thing.
• 11:03
  It's like, what do you mean that they, they aren't going to not invest in that and not invest in that?
• 11:07
  What do you mean they're sending money to Russia?
• 11:09
  Yeah.
• 11:10
  To buy fire arms.
• 11:11
  It's just so wild because they send money offshore, right?
• 11:14
  Yeah, most of kiwi saver money goes offshore.
• 11:16
  Because then we just don't have the investable universe or like the num, enough companies here in New Zealand.
• 11:21
  Because how much money overall is invested in kiwi saver?
• 11:24
  Do you know vaguely?
• 11:25
  But it would be like millions and millions of that.
• 11:27
  Billions and millions of that.
• 11:28
  Billions and billions.
• 11:29
  And they wouldn't say you were saying basically like the pool of companies that we have here.
• 11:32
  There's like, there's actually a hundred listed companies in New Zealand.
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  If you put billions and billions dollars into those companies.
• 11:38
  These are just, fish and pie would be ginormous.
• 11:40
  Yeah.
• 11:41
  Exactly.
• 11:42
  We did a lot of disruptions.
• 11:44
  And that's the kind of sad thing though is that this is all kiwi's money and it's going offshore.
• 11:48
  But that's not an argument for another day.
• 11:50
  That's interesting actually.
• 11:52
  But so basically circling back to the ethical side of things.
• 11:56
  When it comes to sending money overseas, I guess there's also another blind spot for people, right?
• 12:01
  Because it's like in New Zealand we know companies by name, we know what they do.
• 12:05
  It's a lot easier to be aware of where the money's being invested.
• 12:08
  So if you're looking through a list of like who your kiwi's ever provider is.
• 12:11
  But for example, if you're like, oh yeah, no them, no them, no them.
• 12:14
  But if it's offshore, it's quite a lot of research to go through a list and find out.
• 12:19
  And you'd have no idea.
• 12:20
  Some of them would be not companies that you'd be proud to be aligned with.
• 12:26
  It's taking the time to learn and find out.
• 12:28
  But there's definitely been a light.
• 12:30
  Sean.
• 12:31
  Sean.
• 12:32
  Sean.
• 12:33
  Sean on this past tense.
• 12:35
  The light has been shining.
• 12:37
  On this space.
• 12:38
  Recently, because yeah, people are sitting up and going, hang on a sec.
• 12:42
  I want to invest in companies that align with my values, whether it be sustainable fashion
• 12:46
  or having a lower impact on the environment or whatever your values and ethics are.
• 12:51
  And then companies have also had to open up and realise this as well.
• 12:55
  So it's kind of flowing from us to the kiwi's overriders down to the companies saying, hang on a sec.
• 13:00
  Our customers want to know who are your suppliers.
• 13:04
  Do your child labour?
• 13:06
  Like, do you use low levels of water to try and make your products?
• 13:10
  And do you have a low impact on the environment?
• 13:12
  Do you use sustainable cotton?
• 13:13
  Like all those things?
• 13:14
  And so then that kind of flows back to the kiwi's overriders and back to the consumer
• 13:17
  and then they get the answers.
• 13:18
  So, but therefore the companies that don't do those things, then they look really bad
• 13:25
  and then people pull their money out and then they can't survive.
• 13:28
  Yeah, I think a lot of people, when they hear about sustainable fashion or fashion as a topic,
• 13:33
  they're like, I don't really care about fashion.
• 13:36
  I'm not in that.
• 13:37
  What does it really matter?
• 13:38
  It's like, actually, if you wear clothes, majority, you can do it.
• 13:42
  You're in it.
• 13:43
  And you care it.
• 13:44
  It's like, I never wears product when she's like, I don't care about fashion.
• 13:48
  And he's like, honey, you're wearing that blue jumper?
• 13:50
  It was pulled out of a blower's leader.
• 13:52
  So she's like, right.
• 13:54
  Yeah.
• 13:55
  Because you are.
• 13:57
  And also the second you wear clothes, you're supporting and ripping that brand too.
• 14:02
  Totally.
• 14:03
  So if you don't know anything about them, you're investing in that brand.
• 14:07
  Like the second you spend money with them, you're saying, hey, I like how you do business.
• 14:11
  You keep doing that business.
• 14:13
  You're supporting that company.
• 14:14
  Totally.
• 14:15
  To grow and to do better.
• 14:16
  Yeah.
• 14:17
  Pathfinder is on a mission to prove you don't have to sacrifice good ethics to generate good returns.
• 14:21
  All of Pathfinder's Kiwis over funds ranked in the top three for returns and Morningstar's
• 14:26
  2021 survey.
• 14:27
  So, if balancing individual wealth with collective well-being floats your boat, check out Pathfinder
• 14:32
  Kiwis over plan.
• 14:33
  Pathfinder Kiwis over plan helps you save for the future without it costing the earth.
• 14:37
  Pathfinder asset management limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder Kiwis over plan.
• 14:41
  Head to pathfinder.kiwi for more information and a copy of the product disclosure statement.
• 14:46
  Okay.
• 14:47
  Segway.
• 14:48
  Yeah.
• 14:49
  This is a really good one.
• 14:50
  So, you're choosing a company to invest in by buying their clothes.
• 14:54
  Similarly, when you're investing in stocks, you're doing the same thing.
• 14:57
  Yeah.
• 14:58
  So, in the investing space, what have you seen in terms of trends or growth towards more sustainable
• 15:05
  companies being supported?
• 15:06
  Like, are there even any listed fashion companies that are sustainable?
• 15:10
  Yeah, it's really hard because it's obviously this huge growing space of ESG investing, which
• 15:15
  is environmental, social and governance investing, which is effectively shining a light on how
• 15:20
  companies do business.
• 15:21
  And the environment side's kind of had a lot of focus as you would expect, because climate
• 15:25
  change and everything.
• 15:26
  So, that all kind of comes into it, though, because fashion companies that use a lot of water
• 15:30
  or like the fashion industry contributes, I think it's 20% of all carbon emissions of the
• 15:35
  world or something.
• 15:36
  So, it's something ridiculous.
• 15:37
  So, people, it's huge.
• 15:38
  Yeah.
• 15:39
  But in terms of like listed companies, like I did a lot of research around this, like I invest
• 15:44
  in sustainable companies, but it's more of an environmental focus rather than a fashion focus.
• 15:49
  And, unfortunately, there's not a lot of companies that have done well in the space, which
• 15:56
  is frustrating because it's like, you want to support these companies.
• 16:00
  So, there's a few companies that have secondhand clothing companies, so you return your clothing
• 16:05
  or second online designer wardrobe kind of thing where you use it.
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:09
  So, like the real real, which is like a luxury around, so that's a listed company.
• 16:13
  I haven't heard of that.
• 16:14
  So, it's like Gucci handbags and like, it's all very high-end.
• 16:17
  Yeah.
• 16:18
  And you send your products to them and then they list it.
• 16:21
  Is it a global company?
• 16:22
  Yes.
• 16:23
  Yeah.
• 16:24
  Where is it listed in the US?
• 16:25
  Is it doing well?
• 16:26
  No.
• 16:27
  Oh, yeah.
• 16:28
  So, the thing is a lot of these companies, and there's like a, what's all birds?
• 16:31
  Yeah.
• 16:32
  So, all birds.
• 16:33
  So, someone asked me the other day, have you bought all birds shares?
• 16:36
  Yes.
• 16:37
  So, all birds is one, I guess that's like, there's tons like the real real, so there's heaps
• 16:42
  that are listed.
• 16:43
  Yeah.
• 16:44
  So, there's like, there's heaps of them, but they've all listed like last year.
• 16:47
  So, they're all IPO'd last year and they've just haven't done well.
• 16:50
  Obviously, it's a bit of COVID.
• 16:51
  So, what's IPO'd?
• 16:52
  Ah, listed.
• 16:53
  So, they became public companies.
• 16:55
  So, initial public offering, sorry.
• 16:57
  Okay.
• 16:58
  Yeah.
• 16:59
  So, it's when you, the public can buy shares.
• 17:01
  So, a lot of companies that we see doing this are private companies.
• 17:04
  Well, sorry, you can really only get involved as a consumer or a consumer level.
• 17:08
  Whereas, these companies, you can get involved at an investor level.
• 17:11
  But unfortunately, they haven't done well.
• 17:13
  And I don't know if what it is.
• 17:14
  I mean, they've all listed pretty much last year.
• 17:17
  So, maybe it was just a timing thing.
• 17:19
  Maybe, you know, they haven't been around that long.
• 17:22
  But, yeah, it's kind of frustrating because you want to support these companies.
• 17:26
  And you want to invest in them to help them grow and do well.
• 17:30
  But, yeah.
• 17:31
  They're not doing well as honey.
• 17:32
  Yeah.
• 17:33
  And I mean, it's funny, isn't it?
• 17:34
  Because, of course, you want to support them if you believe in them.
• 17:37
  But the reality is, if it's not a particularly good investment, people aren't going to...
• 17:42
  Yeah.
• 17:43
  You know?
• 17:44
  But there's companies like Allbirds.
• 17:45
  They did well.
• 17:46
  I mean, the share prices come back since the IPO was nuts.
• 17:50
  It was up like 100% on day one.
• 17:52
  Wow.
• 17:53
  But, you've got to take a long time.
• 17:54
  It's a long game.
• 17:55
  And it's like, you've got to look at the long-term view.
• 17:57
  And it's, you know, well, more people want to be buying Allbirds shares.
• 18:00
  Well, more people want to be wearing Allbirds shows.
• 18:02
  Will that company be around in 10 years' time?
• 18:04
  Will it be bigger in 10 years' time?
• 18:06
  So, that's the kind of question she should be asking.
• 18:08
  And if so, then, yeah, I want to invest in that company because of how it makes its products
• 18:12
  and how little impact it has on the environment.
• 18:14
  And then there's companies like Kathmandu as well as another one closer to home, which is...
• 18:19
  Because that's listed.
• 18:20
  Yeah, that's listed.
• 18:21
  Yeah.
• 18:22
  But they do a lot around visibility of their supply chain.
• 18:25
  And I think that's really important when you're investing in a fashion company.
• 18:29
  And we're seeing a lot more companies that aren't in the fashion industry,
• 18:33
  wake up to it as well, because there's a lot of pressure about it.
• 18:36
  And it's called modern slavery.
• 18:37
  And it's around having visibility of your entire supply chain.
• 18:41
  They have, Kathmandu, have an incredible...
• 18:44
  I've spoken to that.
• 18:46
  He's got the operations manager.
• 18:48
  Yeah.
• 18:49
  Yeah, who has...
• 18:50
  He's up there in direct relationships with people who make their clothes.
• 18:52
  And they have this new kind of unique system where anyone who's working in a factory
• 18:58
  can contact Kathmandu directly through an app kind of system.
• 19:03
  Yeah.
• 19:04
  Directly, so often a factory will make, let's say,
• 19:07
  10% of what they make a Kathmandu clothes,
• 19:10
  often any kind of exploitation or unfair treatment will go to the manager of that factory
• 19:17
  but not get back to the company if that makes sense.
• 19:19
  I love hearing their systems that are really changing.
• 19:22
  And even the fact that they're asking those things or these big factories,
• 19:25
  it's a direct, like, he literally will get a message
• 19:28
  if someone has, like, a complaint or something's happened or from the workers.
• 19:32
  He has those stories about factory workers writing inside the clothing labels,
• 19:36
  like, help.
• 19:37
  You'll hear it.
• 19:38
  And so, like, this is how, because this kind of all came about as well,
• 19:41
  was that the whole collapse in Bangladesh of that was a primary plaza?
• 19:45
  The Rhine Plaza.
• 19:46
  Yeah.
• 19:47
  And the cabin?
• 19:48
  There's the building collapsed in 2013.
• 19:51
  And it cooled around 1,180 people.
• 19:54
  Yeah.
• 19:55
  And that was where a lot, a lot of the world's clothes were being made.
• 19:58
  And the building had already been like, they'd said it was unsafe and needed stuff.
• 20:03
  But they're like, no, keep working.
• 20:05
  Making the clothes for all the people are going to wear them a few times.
• 20:08
  And then there was a huge outcry of the conditions that they were working in.
• 20:13
  And it's like, well, when you're buying a t-shirt for $5, it's kind of what do you expect?
• 20:18
  For the conditions of people working in.
• 20:20
  That's why there was now the whole, you know, people having visibility of the supply chain
• 20:25
  and where their products coming from right down to the factory workers or fashion revolution
• 20:30
  kicked off then too, which is like a global movement.
• 20:33
  The main offices are in the UK, I believe.
• 20:35
  And they're all over.
• 20:36
  We have fashion revolution in New Zealand.
• 20:39
  And is it basically holding brands accountable for their supply chain?
• 20:42
  We did a talk with them.
• 20:43
  Yeah.
• 20:44
  And locked down.
• 20:45
  That's right.
• 20:46
  Yeah.
• 20:47
  So if you were looking at ESG investing as a whole, that's growing hugely, but not necessarily
• 20:54
  in a sustainable fashion element.
• 20:56
  I mean, there is pressure on fashion companies to have more visibility
• 21:01
  and like where the risks are and to reduce, you know, have better working conditions.
• 21:05
  Just to have better transparency.
• 21:07
  It's like the word of the fashion industry at the moment, which is awesome.
• 21:11
  Yeah.
• 21:12
  And so I think that's kind of one thing, if you're looking to invest in a listed fashion company,
• 21:17
  you need to set aside time to actually look.
• 21:20
  If that's what you're concerned about, and then you should be setting aside time
• 21:24
  to look at that transparency and look at the labor conditions and read their sustainability report
• 21:29
  and make sure that what they say they're doing is what actually what they're doing.
• 21:33
  Because wasn't Nike kind of in hot water a while ago for...
• 21:36
  They're often in hot water.
• 21:38
  Yeah.
• 21:39
  Which is weird, because they're not exactly cheap shows.
• 21:42
  It's upward of like $200 in shows.
• 21:44
  Yeah.
• 21:45
  Often when you find the mock ups on some of those products though, especially in the like outdoor,
• 21:50
  active wear kind of industry.
• 21:52
  What a really huge you mean.
• 21:54
  Yeah, yeah, especially, yeah, compared to other products.
• 21:58
  But there is one, that D-pop, that you love.
• 22:01
  I love D-pop.
• 22:03
  I found this like, so I'm just going to love that one.
• 22:06
  So this is Etsy.
• 22:08
  So Etsy is a listed company and they own D-pop.
• 22:11
  And so that's kind of...
• 22:12
  Can we just wait for anyone that doesn't know?
• 22:14
  Let me just tell you about D-pop.
• 22:16
  So D-pop, pop, pop, I'm actually not sure.
• 22:19
  D-pop.
• 22:20
  So it's this app, it's probably a website too, where you can literally search,
• 22:24
  like, flame-covered chuck tailors.
• 22:27
  And they'll come up with secondhand flame lights.
• 22:29
  Oh, actually some of them are brand new, but really cool.
• 22:32
  Like you can find specific things that you're looking for.
• 22:36
  Like, you know that awesome polo puffer jacket of mine?
• 22:40
  Oh, yeah.
• 22:41
  It's so cool.
• 22:42
  I like, well, I basically didn't take it off all winter.
• 22:44
  So I've been like, do you like this or this?
• 22:46
  I'm like, what is that app?
• 22:48
  I've never even heard of it.
• 22:49
  I was like, fun.
• 22:50
  It's quite obsessed with it.
• 22:52
  But that's a way to invest, because it's itself is not a fashion label.
• 22:56
  What do you think it is?
• 22:57
  It's like a peer-to-peer e-commerce platform, effectively.
• 23:01
  Oh.
• 23:02
  And so people can sell stuff on there.
• 23:04
  And so they've got the secondhand platform D-pop.
• 23:07
  So that's kind of, there'll be ways around it.
• 23:10
  So it's more a case of Googling, if there isn't...
• 23:12
  Is it listed?
• 23:13
  Yes, yeah.
• 23:14
  So I can invest in D-pop.
• 23:15
  Well, you do it through Etsy.
• 23:17
  Etsy owns D-pop.
• 23:18
  Yes.
• 23:19
  Totally investing.
• 23:20
  So there's ways around it that you could...
• 23:22
  If there is a company that you want to invest in, a fashion company,
• 23:24
  you can see, okay, who is the parent company?
• 23:26
  And then you could invest in it that way.
• 23:28
  But you're investing in the whole company.
• 23:30
  So, yeah.
• 23:31
  Okay, good.
• 23:32
  And then there's other companies like...
• 23:33
  I mean, the likes of Gucci has launched a secondhand offering.
• 23:37
  Levi's had...
• 23:38
  All these brands have now got these recycled items
• 23:42
  or secondhand offerings, because they know it's almost like a conscious thing
• 23:47
  they have to do.
• 23:48
  But it's not a huge part of their business.
• 23:50
  So it's more of a PR thing, really.
• 23:52
  So it's just something...
• 23:53
  How do you feel about that stuff?
• 23:54
  Like, is it...
• 23:55
  It's a mixed bag and depends on the organization.
• 23:58
  Because on one hand, you want these things to happen.
• 24:02
  But then you go, ah, but is this just a token kind of...
• 24:05
  Yeah.
• 24:06
  Yeah, yeah.
• 24:07
  I can tip that box and move on.
• 24:08
  But you also want to applaud small steps as well.
• 24:11
  But it's important that we see...
• 24:13
  Okay, that's great that that little thing happened.
• 24:15
  But what else are you doing?
• 24:17
  What are your core business values?
• 24:19
  Like, how are you actually changing your business model?
• 24:22
  How are you changing?
• 24:23
  How you do things?
• 24:24
  Because having a little conscious collection, having a little secondhand thing is not enough.
• 24:30
  But it's a great start.
• 24:31
  And I think we absolutely need to applaud that.
• 24:33
  Yeah.
• 24:34
  Because you talk about that quite a bit in terms of like, what is the line when it comes to conscious investing?
• 24:38
  Because everyone has different values, right?
• 24:40
  Right.
• 24:41
  So like, what you would say is investing consciously would be very different to works in mind and everyone else's.
• 24:46
  So, yeah, that's probably quite a good place to start, I guess, in terms of like, how can people figure out what they feel comfortable with?
• 24:54
  Yeah.
• 24:55
  Well, it's kind of coming back to that point that you said Kate, around, do you support the small company that's trying to do good,
• 25:01
  or do you support the big company that's trying to change, or...
• 25:05
  Even if it's a small business.
• 25:07
  Or do you support the company that's already there?
• 25:09
  It's really what I struggle with, you know, with having kind of an environment or lens over the fund that I manage.
• 25:15
  It's like, okay, do I invest 100% of the fund in your renewables?
• 25:18
  Or do I invest in the company that's got this epic piece of technology that's actually going to really help truck drivers reduce emissions or something?
• 25:26
  You know, like there's so many, it's kind of...
• 25:28
  You've got to have a balance because if those companies don't get your investment or don't get your money,
• 25:33
  that are trying to change or trying to grow to help other companies.
• 25:38
  Then they're not going to be able to succeed and then they're...
• 25:41
  You've got to have a balanced view of, yes, okay, I'm going to invest in all birds because it's already there.
• 25:45
  And hey, I'm also going to invest in Etsy because they...
• 25:49
  Because they've got D-pop in there.
• 25:51
  Or maybe there's a very example, but you're all investing in this.
• 25:53
  Someone that may be from the huge part of their business isn't that sustainable but is clearly trying to shift things.
• 25:58
  But we need those different values though, different people.
• 26:01
  It's like some people I know only shop sick in hand.
• 26:04
  And then other friends who will only shop sustainable fashion and only buy a New Zealand,
• 26:10
  only things in New Zealand made.
• 26:12
  And I'm also really passionate about our global community and buying things that are made fairly from people overseas.
• 26:18
  But we need all of those people doing all those things.
• 26:21
  And so I shop with my values, but we need to encourage people to find their values and shop that way.
• 26:27
  Because we can't just do one, go for it.
• 26:31
  It's like we can't have change if just individuals do stuff.
• 26:34
  It needs to be individuals, business and government action.
• 26:37
  That's true.
• 26:38
  Yeah.
• 26:39
  Well said.
• 26:40
  Kate, I'm curious.
• 26:42
  You mentioned when you first, like, well, I've got my Kiwi saver.
• 26:46
  I need to find out where it is.
• 26:48
  Where is your Kiwi saver now?
• 26:49
  Have you moved it?
• 26:50
  Yes, my Kiwi saver was with ANZ.
• 26:54
  That was my...
• 26:55
  I was with my bank too.
• 26:56
  Yeah, it was just the default one.
• 26:58
  I got a job first and, you know, you just took the thing and no one tells you what.
• 27:02
  You're in 400,000 other Kiwis, so don't worry.
• 27:05
  Yeah, exactly.
• 27:06
  So now I'm with Pathfinder.
• 27:08
  Cool.
• 27:09
  So that is by far, like, they've even...
• 27:11
  And I joined on with them when they were really new.
• 27:15
  So it was quite a big risk for me.
• 27:17
  You know, we're talking about brands.
• 27:19
  And, you know, are they new?
• 27:21
  What are they going to be like in 10 years?
• 27:23
  It was a new Kiwi saver fund.
• 27:25
  But because I'm young, I didn't have much money in it.
• 27:28
  You know, someone has to be an early adopter.
• 27:31
  I just went for it.
• 27:32
  And the returns have been excellent.
• 27:35
  And they're like morning star reviews.
• 27:37
  They're always.
• 27:38
  They're always in there.
• 27:39
  What one are you in?
• 27:40
  You're in the, like, high-risk school.
• 27:41
  Do you know what fund you're in?
• 27:42
  I believe I'm in the growth one.
• 27:45
  Yes, the growth one.
• 27:46
  Yeah.
• 27:47
  Yeah.
• 27:48
  Yeah, good.
• 27:49
  I'm in it.
• 27:50
  Rascade.
• 27:51
  Nice.
• 27:52
  Did you...
• 27:53
  I've also never seen one.
• 27:54
  Did you go...?
• 27:55
  Did you go...?
• 27:56
  Yeah.
• 27:57
  Living life on the edge.
• 28:00
  Did you go through and check out what they invest in?
• 28:04
  Did you ask them questions?
• 28:05
  Yep.
• 28:06
  And I was really lucky to be able to sit down with John.
• 28:09
  And, like, actually ask them questions.
• 28:11
  John there.
• 28:12
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:13
  And actually ask them questions.
• 28:14
  He would have been stoked to talk to you
• 28:16
  because you would then, if they were taking boxes,
• 28:19
  he would know that you would talk about it publicly.
• 28:21
  Yeah, and I was able...
• 28:23
  It was really cool to just sit and have that conversation with him, like, directly.
• 28:27
  Yeah.
• 28:28
  And, like, not through a call center or anything.
• 28:30
  Yeah, exactly.
• 28:31
  But I think also, even other customers,
• 28:33
  even just because, obviously, I'm ethically Kate,
• 28:36
  there's a certain thing that comes with that.
• 28:38
  But even other Pathfinder customers, do you call that?
• 28:41
  Pathfinder Investors.
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  Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of Raising the Curve.
• 32:21
  Please subscribe and leave a review on what ever platform you're listening on,
• 32:25
  and we would also love for you to share this podcast with anyone you think would benefit from it.
• 32:29
  For more information about the curve and how you can learn more,
• 32:32
  head to the curve.co.nz or find us on socials at the underscore curve NZ.
• 32:38
  Thank you so much to Pathfinder Kiwis overplant for making this mini series happen.
• 32:44
  It's time to think about not only our bottom line.
• 32:47
  The world needs us to be investing our money consciously,
• 32:50
  and that's exactly what Pathfinder are doing.
• 32:52
  Growing your wealth doesn't need to cost the earth.
• 32:55
  We all have different standards when it comes to what we think is ethical and what's important to us,
• 32:59
  which is why education is key when it comes to making sure that your Kiwis overplants
• 33:03
  aren't being invested in things that you don't agree with.
• 33:06
  Pathfinder Kiwis overplant values the lives of animals, people and the planet.
• 33:10
  Pathfinder asset management limited is the issue of the Pathfinder Kiwis overplant,
• 33:14
  so you can hit the Pathfinder dot kiwi for more information to see their product disclosure statement,
• 33:19
  or you can check them out on the show notes.