Latest / Doug Has Questions / Episode 7: Vince Hansen; What Does It Mean To Have Enough?

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Episode 7: Vince Hansen; What Does It Mean To Have Enough? · Doug Has Questions

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thanks for joining us for this episode of Doug Has Questions.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed today's conversation, please like, subscribe.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're available if you want to watch us on uh YouTube or if you just want to listen to the podcast version on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And each episode goes live on Thursday morning.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoy this episode and we're happy to have you listening.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Doug Has Questions.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Vince Hansen, who I've known for a number of years.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: First worked with him when uh I was appointed as a city council member.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was January of 99 when you were working as a city manager.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think Vince has a really cool story to tell, and I want to get into his not only his public service, but also him being a deacon at the Catholic Church.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know his faith uh is a huge part of who he is, and I'd like to touch on that with him as well.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the show, Vince.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, really.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, appreciate you being here.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Good to hear you preaching out and finding out about the people in your town.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, trying to do something different.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, first off, your early life.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Where did where did Vince grow up?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where where did you start off with?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, I was uh I was born in one town and brought to another.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was born in a town called Ukaya, California.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: My parents had been living there for a few years, and my dad had just gotten his engineering degree from uh UC Davis a few years before that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he was trying to work his way into different things, and he got a job in Lake County, California as the flood control manager.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so he got the job, and I already had six brothers and sisters ahead of me.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when I was born, uh he got the job and they all moved to Upper Lake, the town that I was raised in.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I was my mom stayed in Ukaya with friends until I was born, and then I came to the town of Upper Lake, and I was there until after I graduated from high school.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh rural county in northern California.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Grew up in the middle of pear orchards and walnut groves and oak trees and whatnot.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh big giant lake a few miles away.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh on the edge of the Mendocino National Forest.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: You could look up from our front yard and you could see a lookout tower eight miles away.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we spent a lot of time going up and down into the national forest and gradually working our way further and further.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a nice thing to have around.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of gave me that sense of having space.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Something that I what we just thought was pretty I found out was pretty important, especially when I didn't have space.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So one of seven kids.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there was three more after me.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Three more after you.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there were ten of us.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ten of you.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've got four brothers and five sisters.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Five sisters.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm number seven.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how how they split that 50-50?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's they uh They claim that that's what they planned.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they planned?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted five of each.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Five of each.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: They just did it after it just to show that they were content.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: What what was that like growing up in a in a large household like that where you uh it seems like you'd always have somebody to do something with?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was no shortage of things going on all the time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And my parents were pretty involved in the community and stuff, so there was always people around and and things, but yeah, just the siblings alone, there was always something going on and someone to do things with or someone to fight with.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, uh we we did our share of fighting and arguing and that stuff too.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But but we all get along and we all still see each other when we can and uh we're all still alive.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: My oldest brother was born in 47.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um and he's doing well, so um still together.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it was fun.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: There was like I say, there was always something going on and being a small town, he kind of knew everyone.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think when I was about nine years old, um my brother needed help with his paper out, so I took over his paper out.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: He just thought he just wanted me to help him, but next thing I knew it was mine.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And actually before that, um he had a job moving irrigation pipe in the pear orchards, and he had me come and help him with that, and I think I ended up with that job too around the same time.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: He seemed to have a pretty good uh gig there just picking up your brother's old jobs.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I always I always looked up to him, my brother David.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I wanted to be like him until he got older and then I I changed my mind.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Changed your mind?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's he's a great guy.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's really good.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's a lot of stories related to that newspaper route and working in the orchards and even picking walnuts and I was driving a forklift when I was fourteen years old, uh loading pears onto semis and just a lot of opportunity and a lot of interesting things to do.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: My my good friend was had a big ranch, cattle ranch, and spent a lot of time there with him and uh again kind of cruising around in those hills around the house.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was fun.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then my siblings, a lot of them like to do some of the same things.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have one brother that still lives up in that forest and has a place up there, and um uh one sister that's in that area, and the others are kind of all over the country now.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were working in the in the pear orchards and with the picking walnuts and stuff like that, was it was there s a at that time was there a lot of immigrant labor that you were working with?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or is is that you see that now that that's mainly immigrant laborers?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Was that when you were there too?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they actually the farms most of the farms had like a special place where they had housing for the migrant workers.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of them were Mexican.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I spent quite a bit of time with them.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, I didn't take the time to learn the Spanish, I only learned a couple of words, you know, cerveza and the important ones.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um, but yeah, they were around, they were part of the community, and um a few of them did stay and managed to um work into other things in the community as well.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: But most of them that were working at those times, especially in the picking and the pruning.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pruning was big time, but a lot of them were there um because it was not too long after the picking.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Some would stay, they'd go to another job and then come back.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there were quite a few immigrants around at certain times of the year.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And how did how do you think both of those, growing up in a large family and then also being exposed to people different nationalities that are living a different lifestyle than you with the might migrant they're moving from job to job?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: How how do you think that formed you as a child, or did it have do you think it had much of an impact on you as you were growing up in those formative years?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think a lot of those things, I I think being from a large family, being in a small community, um, having parents that were really active, all those things affected me.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Working with the immigrants, um, it was a seasonal thing, and I never really made friends with any of them and never really got to know any of them very well.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I kind of regret that in a way.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I could tell that some of them um were trying to deal with that issue of immigration, that some of them weren't there legally, and so there would be times when the Border Patrol would come through town and they'd round up a few and so on.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh but yeah, the kids didn't really go to school at that time that were their kids.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was also an Indian reservation just a couple miles from our house as well.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: The Pomo Indians were in that area, so there was a lot of diversity, and I think those things do affect the person when they're growing up.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's good to be exposed to a lot of different cultural things.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: We also lived, you know, w almost a stone's throw, maybe not even a quarter of a mile from the cemetery.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You could stand out in our yard and you could see it.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was on a hill, and Rensall called it Boot Hill, but the cemetery was right there, and that affected you too.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: We would go up there and play a lot and whatnot, but we also got accustomed to dealing with people who were passing on, and um just that was just part of life.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: We got to see the whole circle right there where we were at.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a neat place to grow up in that respect.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just a whole bunch of different things um from beginning to end of people's lives.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So And was religion something that was very strong with your parents?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was, yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Especially my mother.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my father converted to become a Catholic after, or I think about the time that he got married to her, he was a a Lutheran.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he talked about some of the Lutheran things every once in a while, but um he was a committed Catholic as well.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, we always went to church on Sunday, and when in the summer the sisters, the Dominican sisters would come to the county.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was we had to go ten miles to go to church, and then uh in the summer the sisters would be there for like three weeks, and we would go to summer Sunday school.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember as a kid getting out of school, had my shorts on, looking forward to summer, and my mom says, Well, tomorrow you guys start summer Sunday school, summer catechism.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't one I had planned.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it's funny, you you get drugged to these things.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't really have a choice, you know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, this is what my parents are doing, so that's what you're doing, no matter how much you complain.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: But there were always interestings going interesting things going on there too.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and those sisters, I mean, so intelligent and wise, and and the variety of really kind and loving and compassionate ones, and then like the main sister being this just like right out of a movie, like stern and but again just learning that contrast and that variety and having that variety in life, even there, you know.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was it was definitely a factor in my life, um, religion.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I grew up and I had first communion when I was probably in first or second grade, and then confirmation when I got into high school.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I continued, even after I got out of high school, to to go to church.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I wouldn't say I was real active or involved, but it was part of life, and I continued to do that, and then things grew later in life as I got a family and other things happened in my life.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So out of going through high school, were you involved in athletics?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Any clubs or anything like that at school that yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um seems like in a small town you're not anybody unless you play sports.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, everybody wants to play sports so they can be part of the action, you know.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I was a terrible athlete.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, I could if we would have had like cross country or something like that, maybe I would have done a little better and a couple of things.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I played basketball, but I didn't hit five feet until I was a junior in high school, so it was very short.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just remembered something the other day about there was a girl I really liked, and after school, she'd say, Hey Vince, come play a game of basketball.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh, at least I can beat her, you know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: She beat me every time.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: Every time.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it'd be close, but she still beat me in the So anyway, I got on the team and uh I was a bench warmer most of the time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when I think about it, it's a good thing they kept me on the bench because I was uncoordinated and I'd just give the ball right to the other side under pressure, you know.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't didn't develop the skills.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was young I was younger than some of my classmates.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm born in October, so I was almost a year younger than some of them.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So and then we had high school football and I did play football and I did okay, but um again, a lot of bench warming.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then my junior year, I found out that I had a heart murmur, and the doctor said that I couldn't play sports.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I really had a chip on my shoulder, and I since I couldn't play sports, I just did everything else that I could.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So and especially getting out into the woods and checking out the territory and um just trying to I pushed myself as much as I could physically just to prove the doctor's wrong?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's a kind of a long story, so there's a lot of things that that that affected in my life too, just being told that and then the way I adjusted to it and some of the things that happened a little later on.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that gave you more more drive?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're trying to prove that you weren't defective or that you couldn't still do the things that the doctor said you couldn't?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it did.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think um at first you just kind of like laid out like, oh man, I'm a bum, I'm worthless, you know.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course my parents didn't have any sympathy for me, so I had to do something.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just I got involved with work things that I did and uh did a lot of things on those ranches that I mentioned and farms and and then uh exploring on a lot of it on motorcycle, just going places where you couldn't really go with a motorcycle and and finding those places and doing those things.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um actually the area where I grew up it was a big deer hunting place and um people would come from all over California to hunt there.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So guess what we did?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: We never hunted.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't consider it to be safe to be in the woods at all during hunting season.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um so I didn't hunt that much until later in life.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um did some.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I did a couple friends.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: The friend with the ranch, he had there was some deer hunting on his property and stuff, but uh not not as a regular thing.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um anyway.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what was your original question?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh just the um the effects that hearing from a doctor that you're murmuring.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the subject we were on.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually I yeah, it was I really wanted to do everything I could.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I I wanted to be a pilot and police officer, and I had people tell me that well, well actually the this first visit where I went to the doctor, it was actually at a Boy Scout camp.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um he said that there's something you've got a murmur and y you didn't have one before, so something may have happened, you may have gotten rheumatic fever or something.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you really need to take it easy.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't play sports and this and that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like anyway, my parents took me to a specialist in St.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Helena, California.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I still remember that doctor just telling I mean it was like I wanted to plug my ears.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was just telling me, No, you're not gonna be able to do this, you're not gonna do that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time you're 40, you're gonna have an artificial valve, either a pig valve or a cow valve or whatever.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you might make it to 40, but maybe it'll be before that, whatever.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like struck down.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh how old were you when you when they told you?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like 14, 15.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're 14 or 15?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: The doctor's telling you he doesn't know if you're gonna make it to 40.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Well, you'll need to have a heart you know, pe people live with these valves, you know, and this is what you're gonna do.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get a fake valve, and um, you know, but I don't know when it'll happen.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And in the meantime, you have to be careful.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so anyway, I kind of walked out of there and just ignored him for everything except for school sports and did everything I could and I got pretty healthy and seemed like things were okay.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, seemed like my heart bit beat kind of fast.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he said my heart was big.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: He said it was enlarged and other things that indicated there was something going on.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so I don't know how deep you want to get into this, but uh deep you want to get into it.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's that's a big factor in my life, and I I don't talk to people about it very much, but so I'm in junior college.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I my older brother Dave, I wanted to be like Dave, so I went to Modesto Junior College and I I majored in uh I was gonna be like a Vogue Ed teacher.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I thought maybe that'd be something good.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of course they didn't even have anything Vogue Ed related at Modesto Junior College, so I took astronomy and some of the other science classes and learned a lot.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting geology.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um I was there and I lived there was a how do I say it?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go back to back a little bit.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to find a place to live in Modesto.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm late and behind on everything, but I'm there and looking for a place, and there's nothing available.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I call up this old couple on the phone, and they say, Oh no, we've already they had rooms in their house that they were renting, and we've already rented them, and and there's an old guy, and he's like, Well, and he says, Well, so you haven't found anything, huh?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually he says, Well, well, well, I got this one little room in the attic.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nobody stays up there, but you know, if a person could live there if they needed to.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, gonna check it out.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I came over and those people ended up becoming like surrogate parents for me.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: They uh rented me that attic room, and I lived there for two years and went to school there.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the two boys that were down below, I kind of knew them a bit.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: One of them was uh involved in his church, and and one evening he told me to that he was going to a concert, and uh there was gonna be a guy singing and whatnot.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Would you like to go?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Sure, yeah, I'll go.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and we walk into this big hall, and there's room for like 250, 300 people, and there's two other people in there sitting on the other side, kind of down at the end of the row.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's us two and those two.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy comes out and he goes, he proceeds to put on a show as if it was full.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I couldn't believe it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: He was a Christian singer, and he put on this show and he just sang his heart out.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end, he said, You know, one of the things I do is at the end is like I like to pray for people, and when people have an issue or something, you know, I like to pray for them.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there's only four of us there, and he's like, Well, but uh, there's somebody here with such and such an issue, and da-da-da-da.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And would you please stand up?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be darned if one of those people down at the other end didn't stand up.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: You do stand up.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so he stands up and we all prayed, and he sang another song, and had the person sit down.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then he starts talking about this guy who had something going on with his heart that uh was really affecting his life and had really held him down.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he described me in detail, and he said, Would you please stand up?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I sank into the seat like this and never said a word.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, well, we want to pray for you anyway.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So they prayed, and those three people and him prayed, and my the guy I was with didn't know that I had had all this stuff going on.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt this sense of just um being put at ease and um a sense of peace and warmth and just it just washed over me.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I got through that and uh never thought again about it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I just continue to do everything that I could uh just like a normal person, you know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I go from Modesto to the University of Montana and finally I get I graduate from the University of Montana after two years, and I'm like, man, I I'm healthy.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I could qualify for officer training school at the Navy.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I really wanted to do.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I should just go get checked out, you know.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Look they've already been living like it's a no, so I went well, I went to this physical with a cardiologist and he looked at all my stuff and he did tests and he he looks at the thing and he kept listening to my neck and he says, Okay, gets all done.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Okay, well I've looked at everything.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know what to tell.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: He says that the nearest thing I can tell is that there's a little squeaking sound that your artery makes right here in your neck where the blood runs through.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the ve maybe the artery is bent a little bit or something.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: It ain't gonna hurt nobody or hurt anything, but I don't hear any heart murmur.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: There ain't nothing wrong with your heart as far as I can see.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's normal size, da-da-da-da-da.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like hmm, interesting.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a big change.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so and all of a sudden my mind went back to that time sitting in that audience where I had that overwhelming feeling of healing and consolation and um joy.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so I I I filled out the farms and I went to Butte, Montana to go through all the end processing and uh the guy gets done, he says, Yeah, everything's good, your scores are good, your physical's good, but did you know that you don't have 2020 vision anymore?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Okay, yeah, well I've talked to the other guys and basically they're willing to offer you a slot as a navigator, you know, so you'd get into the flight program, but you can't be a pilot.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Wow, okay, well let me think about it.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I took that evening in Butte, Montana, and walked around, went and got a pork chop sandwich, and um and later on that night I decided not to do it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I didn't, and I ended up going back to Missoula and and I didn't didn't join the service.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So but anyway, supposedly I was okay.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I could live a normal life, so I uh just proceeded from there and I already had finished my four-year degree, and because I couldn't do the things I wanted to do, I ended up with a degree in business administration and finance.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I instead I get a job.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of funny too, but uh my oldest brother, I had mentioned him that I wanted to go to Alaska sometime and and maybe even work up there, and he sent me this little ad cut out of the newspaper.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is back when that's how you learned about things.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Learned about things in the newspaper.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: There was no internet or anything.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it said, you know, jobs in Alaska and number on there.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I called the number and a guy came through town and he was interviewing people in Missoula and interviewed me for a job in the at the they had a hotel, they were the uh basically the contractor that provides all the services at the national park.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I got hired as a gas station attendant because that's what I worked my way through college doing was pumping gas and and I worked there and in the store.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I he interviewed me for that and I got the job.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's got my first airplane ride flying from Missoula to Anchorage, and then taking the train up to Denali Park and uh working up there as uh in a gas station and lodging it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I basically took all my money just to pay for my housing, so I ended up working also as a maid.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I worked as uh night security.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh at least one other job I can't remember now.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, there were there was actually uh two days during the week where I'd started in the morning one morning, I worked till the end of the day, and then I worked night security, and then I worked the next day, and so I basically had a 36 or 40 hour period where I didn't reconsolate to go to sleep.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I had it figured out so I could get a few hours before I had to start the next one.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so yeah, I I did everything and and the next year I got the best job in the hotel in the in the whole outfit.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because you've done all the other jobs, and that was Bellman.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bellman.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there you go.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Getting tips.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're outside.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, the first year I go up there, it's really rainy.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can hardly see the mountain at all the whole year we were there.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I still got out a lot.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I had my first bear encounters and everything else there.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it was a great experience.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so at the end of the year, he offered me the job of Belmont.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I came back.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: So actually I had graduated from college.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: While I was there, uh before I had left, I had put in an application for law school.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my dad wanted me to be a lawyer, and I thought, well, I'll just go ahead and apply just to make him happy.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um didn't didn't get called initially, and then while I was in Denali Park, they sent me a letter and said you were on the waiting list, and we're down to your number, 13 or whatever it was.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I got accepted to law school.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to law school for the year, and um, that's a whole other bunch of stories, but anyway, um, and then came back the next summer working as bellman outside in the sunshine, hefting bags all day long, onto the train, onto the buses, you know, carrying them into things, just working out all day long and being outside, and it was sunny that summer.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we even we even put a rope on a tree on Riley Creek and and skied in in the creek, you know.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was that nice that summer.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: We were like a bunch of beach bumps.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so I came back, and that last day of that first year I was there, there was a girl that would come into the gas station and get gas, and uh I'd wash her window and we'd chat a little bit.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the day that I left, I asked her to go out and have a beer with me at the little uh caboose they had where they had a little bar there, and that was Jancy.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you bet met her up in Denali.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I met her like at the end of that summer and um had a date with her the day that I left, and then left and went back to law school, and then came back the next summer, and we had been riding each other all year, and uh it went from there to where we are now.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been 43 years.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So a little add in the newspaper that your brother gave you about a job of the bigger.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I blame him for everything.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think on that one you should be thanking me for that one.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't want to if I told him I was thankful, he he might take it wrong.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: He might take it wrong.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: It goes to his head.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is my brother we're talking about.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've got to be careful about it, giving our siblings too much credit for things like that.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I he I think he I think he kind of knows, yeah, because uh yeah, I've been blessed in so many ways since that time and to have the experiences I've had.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So out of after three summers of denialing, a couple years of law school.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, so I made one year of law school, went back that summer, and I decided not to continue.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not to continue.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: One year of loss.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh instead I went and I started working on my pilot's license a little bit in Montana and worked odd jobs.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got a job with an electronics company in Illinois.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: There was a kid that I went to school with whose dad had an electronics business and they supplied a lot of electronics to McDonald's.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: The uh things for uh when people used to talk and they drive drive-through window and all that stuff.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: The ring that's in the ground and the electronics that you talk into, and then the automatic drink fillers and all he invented all that stuff.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um I went back there and I worked as a for him as a controller in a electronics company for a while.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And after about a year, I started missing that space.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was in that was right outside of Chicago.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: That was in Batavia, Illinois.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny how we end up in these places, you know.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like so I worked there about a year and he had plans for me.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: He really wanted me to stay.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I decided I wanted to get back to Alaska, and I, of course, I was getting more familiar with Jansey and we wanted to be together more, and uh thought about her coming down there and and us living there, but um there were jobs in Alaska at the time, because it was just at the time that things were about to go off a cliff.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I quit the job there, came up for a job in the budget department with the state of Alaska in Juneau.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got there, they said, uh, sorry, there's no job.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: No job.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked in construction and um I was basically a laborer on the Spaulding condominiums and a couple other projects.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um so I did that and uh eventually got a job with the state as a the only way you could get in, at that time it was so competitive, was like as a clerk.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked as a clerk, like the front desk person in the Department of Community and Regional Affairs, and worked my way up from there to a grants administrator and a statewide program manager after about 14, I think got about fourteen and a half years in with the state, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: So and all in that one department, which no longer exists.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: No longer exists.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you came up at the at the wrong time.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you came up at the time that it worked for you, but as far as the state economy when everything was taking the dive like that, that was I had talked to the guy on the phone, he said, Yeah, there's there's definitely stuff going on originally.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: But he said, you know, things there's a few things happening, but we're still looking good here.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Then I remember the look on his face when I got there and him just kind of oops.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did tell the man that things were looking good.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, it worked out.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I got to do some other things, and uh I spent actually some time fishing with Jancy's dad.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's a commercial fisherman, and uh got out with him just before we got married.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got married, I was an unemployed part-time fisherman laborer with no job.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: With no job.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember uh getting off the boat, it was like a day or two before our wedding, and uh my friends were all showing up and and things, and we were having a conversation, and they had to help me realize that I had no job.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Friends are always good at that, aren't they?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: She had no future with me.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we took a shot anyway and it worked out.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's so that is quite a leap though, to make a commitment like that and when economic things are so uncertain.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is funny, you know, it's it's funny.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: At the time it didn't seem I didn't seem worried about it at all.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I it's like, uh I know I can find a job.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'd I've never been on unemployment, you know.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if you remember, there was one meeting where someone accused me of of uh after I wasn't the manager anymore, they said something about, well, he's just sitting home on unemployment.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I went and talked to that person afterward and let them know that I've never been on unemployment in my life.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I really um take offense at you saying that.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, uh yeah, I just felt like there was opportunity and it was gonna work out and right away it did, you know.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And was was Jancy teaching when you guys got married, or was that was she still in school?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh actually she was working as a travel agent.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody had to have a job.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, she was a travel agent in Duno.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they did a lot of travel for uh federal employees and others.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she was she ended up becoming the manager of the travel agency there.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: She had the same degree as me.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: She had a degree in business administration from the University of Fairbanks.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so she worked at that for a while, and then when we moved to when I moved up there and uh we actually moved from our small apartment to a small house.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had already been working for the state for a while.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then after we had our first child, Kelly, she uh started taking classes.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so she got her teaching credentials while she was raising our kids.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about the time they were in I think Kelly was maybe in second, third grade.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when she um started working in that field.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, maybe a little earlier.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: She worked at the Geno Christian School.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, she worked in teaching there before she came here.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so what what in going from working with your state job, how did you find out that the Haynes manager position was available and taking that step from what you were doing working for the state, moving north 90 miles on Lynn Canal here and bringing your whole family to Haynes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you'll get a kick out of this part because so my employer and you know actually offered to have me work, people were starting to work on computers then.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I think you could do this job from Haynes.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd have to work at home, and I thought, man, when I go home, I I really don't like to work at home.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just I have a hard time separating things.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: If I worked at home, I would never stop working.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: You never stop working, yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to have a place to go to work, otherwise I don't separate very well.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up turning him down and I said, I'm just gonna take my chances.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Jancy's got a teaching job, I'll go up there and I'll find something to support her with, you know.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I come up here and I apply.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So she got the cheat teaching job in Haynes before the manager job for you.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, she worked here for a year.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: She and the girls all came up here and lived here for a year while I finished rebuilding our house in Juneau and continued to work.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh they came back that summer.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: She had a one year position.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then while she was here that summer, she got a full time offer and we decided together that she should take it, and she did.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think I I think I actually got up there about November that year.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was ninety-nine.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I could be a year off, but um so I get here and I was like, I'm just gonna do whatever I can to help Jansey and but I did I quit my job and got here and the uh landscaping position was open with public works.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: I said, that'd be fun.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Be out all summer and in the fall, and uh I guess it must have been summer.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it must have been a little earlier than that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I said, I'll get that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I put the application in for that.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Susan Johnson, I still remember.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: She says, Oh, they give the job to the same person every year.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: You'll never get that job.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: But but they need a manager, and you've got the qualifications.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, They wouldn't hire me in a million years.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, I don't think so.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And she kept pulling on my arm and she said, Well, just let me put it in the stack.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, No, no, but before I left, finally I said, Well, okay.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was like three or four days later that uh Tom Morfitt called me at five o'clock in the morning and said, So you have any comments?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh comments about what?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: About being the new manager or new administrator, new administrator.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Haynes City administrator.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was the last Haynes City administrator, right?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I don't have any comment until I hear that it's actually true.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, they must be crazy.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or they must be really desperate.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: But and it's funny because uh yeah, I I thought I was just way out of my league.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I wasn't prepared for that.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was coming up to, you know, do something fun, take it easy, you know, fish or do something outdoors.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then instead I ended up being the Haynes City administrator.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I can remember going to work and uh just looking at everything and starting to make lists and stuff.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just started praying and I said, Okay, God, you know, let me last a week and I'll be I'll be thankful.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go from there.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I made a week and then I prayed, God, let me last a month.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he let me get there too.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, Oh, okay, well, God, let me let me get a year in.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, got got a year, but it just still kept piling up.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such an impossible job.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's just so many expectations and so many things you would like to do if you had the time to do them all.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um that it's frustrating in a way.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I made it, I guess, and then I prayed for two years.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess I made two years.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Two years.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, Okay, everything I've done okay, and I think I've gone about as far as I can with things.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I can make them much better than I have, so I'm gonna quit.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I quit.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they went through two or three other people, and then of course we changed to a manager form of government.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I was the first city manager and uh we had a new mayor.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Don Otis was the mayor most of the time I was there.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I really was an administrator.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: He was the politician, he dealt with all the politics, and I was the administrator.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I dealt with all the technical stuff, and he kept everybody else off me and said, You just get this stuff done, and I did, and I felt like that was pretty good.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I wasn't against it going into a manager form of government, but uh didn't really realize all the effects that would have and how that was when Don Otis kind of said, Well, they don't need me anymore, because you're the manager, you know.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he didn't run for re-election, and and Dave Black was the mayor after that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just figured that maybe somebody that was more political would do better, and I decided to bug out, and I did, and then they had two or three different people that didn't last even a month or two.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: They must not have been praying.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well and then I think what it was because after consolidation or before consolidation we had Marco Pinalberry.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was before that was that was before because he was the first one out during the during during the vote, yeah, and then it was two months after the vote he passed away from a heart attack.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you filled in right after that, didn't you, for a time?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there were a couple people in between though.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at least one or two.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And but anyway, you got Marco, and that was great when Marco came on because he really he had the politics down.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: He he was an expert at that kind of stuff, and it was really good to have him there.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: But there was one or two before him that while they were still in the transition, still working on the consolidation that didn't last long.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then Marco came along, and then I think he was there longer than a couple months.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was there about a year.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: He he was, it was because he started that was I remember being on the city council when he was this the city manager, and then when we went through consolidation, because he was there that whole time leading up to it, and then it was that December, early December, mid-December, that uh I got a call and everyone was like, he got it, yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it and there's such a huge transition at that point.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: You had just merged the the city government, the borough government.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're going through the two different codes trying to meld all those together.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: He had a plan for all of that, and I look at that, that was as a huge wasted opportunity for Haynes or lost opportunity.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if we wasted, but we lost it because there was you came in on a temporary basis.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: We hired somebody that was gonna be coming up from Wrangle, he had health issues, he went back to Wrangle, and for the first five years after consolidation, it seemed like trying to have somebody more than a year was almost impossible.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I told Mike Case that I would do it until you got somebody hired, and I should have used more specific language because uh I was there about almost another year, nine or ten months, yeah.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so we still worked through as many things as we could, and it was definitely a challenge, but it was a really interesting time.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when Marco came on, I actually did help a little bit with the code.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I worked with Susan Johnson on combining the codes, and I remember some of those meetings and people getting caught in the weeds and all that, and we just would stop and say, Okay, I understand your concerns, but you guys want a consolidated code.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some of this is not going to be perfect, but guess what?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's the good thing about code.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't Like it later, you can change it.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right now we have to move on.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I remember some of those meetings just arguing about where a comma went up.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And some of those, and I like I'm staying out of this.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just that's I don't care where the comma is.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's gonna make change, but yeah, I I I think we have bigger things to work on than that.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: But that was my first time really getting to know you was when I was appointed to the city council.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if I remember correctly, my seat was right next to yours at the dais.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were sitting next to each other at the dais.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I was right next to you there, and Chip Lindy was on the other side.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, no, I really appreciated it.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was good for me as as a young person just getting involved in a political aspect that watching your steadiness and even-handedness that I never I never said you got riled up.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was you always kind of had a really calm demeanor.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Unless I unless I missed something, maybe there maybe there's some internal turmoil there.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't quite hear my heart.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: That was on the other side.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that maybe that was what I didn't hear.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: But just the the the way that you carried yourself through that job, and Haynes can be very challenging sitting up at the dais, and the manager, administrator gets a little gets the brunt of a lot of things that people don't like.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, no, I was always impressed with the way that you handled that and and tried to carry that myself.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of times I haven't lived up to that, but well, I really lacked confidence, you know.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: I should have had a little more faith in myself.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was capable.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, should have given myself a little more credit.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think um just but when I was working, you know, the the meetings is when I felt like I didn't have the I didn't have the confidence.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: But when I was doing the work, I felt pretty good.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I liked the technical aspects, I like the issues working on those things.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the public relations and the and you know, just the kind of the unfairness of it in a way.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you get called names by people that don't even know you and they don't realize you're just doing your job, you know.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um even people that that were employees, you know, just because you're the manager, you know, there you are the manager, therefore I don't like you, you know.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like, gee, sorry it has to be that way.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I never minded when somebody disagreed with me.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was more when they were attributing motives that they they perceived motives on why some why we were doing something.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing this because of this.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And wow, that's the first time I thought about that.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: I never crossed my mind, but they're really quick to come up with a reason why you're doing something that they don't like, and it's like, well, no, this is it, now you're lying to us.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's because of this ulterior motive that you have.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I never even considered that.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, people get upset about things too, and then they're just carrying that that anger around with them, and um, I think that affects that as well.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because of course I became the administrator right after the annexation, and people were you're part of the city, you know, you're part of the new city.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: They annexed us, and w we're not like the rest of the city, you know.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, tell me about some of the differences about where you live and where this person lives.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, but then for them to make it personal and to and to I mean literally to be standing fifteen feet away and calling you names to somebody else, you know, calling you a a whatever, and you're right there, you know.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they know you hear 'em.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you gotta just move on.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Realize that's maybe just one person.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: The other interesting thing was the I think maybe the annexation caused that animosity between people in the town.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it almost fed that division that the town already had.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I remember one time going to these people's house, uh I won't say where or anything, but there was a they had called and complained because the neighbor had built the building close to their property.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I said, okay, I'll come out and take a look at it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I get there and there's a there's a playhouse.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean there's a playhouse that's eight by eight, maybe.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you could pick it up with a with two two hand trucks.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Two hand trucks?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, and he chose me the house.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, have you have you talked to your neighbor about it?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, I haven't talked to my neighbor.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I can see him waved him over there and he came over and he said, Hey, he's kind of worried you built your playhouse too close to his property.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy goes, Oh, well, really?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, here.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes and gets us and we we could almost lift it, but not quite.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, I'll move it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'll move it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, and I said, Don't be afraid to talk to your neighbor.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't have to call me for this stuff.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just talk to each other.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we see even more of that nowadays.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: People are in some ways are even more divided.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of people will still mention consolidation and things to me, but and it has its pluses and its negatives, but I think at least it made everything happen in one place.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of forced people to have to deal with it in one in one place.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the the thing that pushed me over the edge in favor of consolidation is when we were when we were suing each other.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: The borough and the city were suing each other over garbage solid waste.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was like, okay, the this is not productive.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Juggle and Hyde.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is not productive for us to be suing because the city is with is inside the borough, and we're we're suing each other.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's gotta be a better way to do this.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't know if consolidation was a better way of doing it or not.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there's benefits to it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think we missed out on some things at the beginning, yeah, just without knowing who's gonna be there long term.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's no slight to your leadership during that time, but when you're somebody's interim and when somebody's got the full job, a lot of times the people that are working with them treat that differently.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know if we were able to do as many things as we might have if we had just said, we know you only want to be interim, Vince, but we're gonna make you we're gonna call you manager instead.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was so funny because I like I said, I always cut myself short and I said I told Mike, I said, Well, I'm doing a lot of hospice work right now, so I I'm probably only gonna work like two-thirds time.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: So so I took uh one-third off of the salary, and and then I only worked 80 hours a week and stuff like that.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's instead of 95.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I look back now and I just kind of chuckle when I was doing my retirement stuff.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: What's your highest year?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you gotta put your three high years, and it's like as a grants administrator with the state, I made more money.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was just a big, big change between now and then too.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm dating myself, but yeah, it was not even half of what it is now.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: So things change pretty fast.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: But all in all, even though I suffered through some of it and I had some long nights and some sleepless nights, I I think I gained a lot from it.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and I had the opportunity to work with people like you and others.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I really admire the people that step forward and serve on the councils.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I really like it when somebody who's really vocal and has been a complainer for years gets on there.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I vote for 'em.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even if I disagree with them, I'm f I vote for them because I want them on there.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then you watch this change that occurs as they learn what they're really dealing with.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: And to be sitting in that seat.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's priceless training.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I wish I hope that the people who really have concerns and are really vocal and are maybe sometimes a little bit too oh, what's the word, a little too negative, but go ahead and just put their foot in the ring and and do it and learn what it's really like.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a there's definitely a different viewpoint once you've been on both sides of the dais.
• 48:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And have an understanding of the of the challenges.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not like you don't want to do things, but not only is there a process, but there's staff time.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Does the staff have enough time to do this?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have the resource to do this?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's a lot of things there that keep the borough from being able to do everything that people want them to.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then you were got to be the mayor during one of our biggest trials.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that must have been quite an experience, you know.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was completely out by then, but it w it was more than I thought I was signing up for.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a lot more than I thought I was signing up for.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you never know when stuff like that's gonna happen.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not nothing you can do about it.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: But that buzz that you bringing that up and listening to you earlier talking about going to that concert and having that feeling of peace coming over you.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know if I've told you this story, but during that, during the slide event in December 2020, being in the emergency operations center, the EOC, one of the things that KHNS had asked of me just to keep people updated, was to do little audio snippets.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us what just they said, just record saying what you want to tell everybody and text it to us, we'll put it on the air, try to keep people informed.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, those were good.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I was I was doing that the whole time, and then we got uh we were having a meeting with uh the uh senior staff for the EOC, and Caroline Wooten, who was the um incident commander, said uh, we just got word from the Coast Guard that they're gonna announce tomorrow that David and Janae are presumed deceased.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And at that, up till then it was we're gonna try and recover.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: It had been a few days, December weather.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think most people knew that they're presumed deceased at that time.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: But they started like, okay, how are we gonna dismiss it?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was extremely stressed out.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: We were upstairs in um the old mayor's office, the one or it might have been yours.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: The Susan had her office, and you go to the right, that office, and there was kind of our meeting room um for some of those meetings.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just I was just walking around just pacing with a uh stress ball, and everybody's like, Doug, you're making a service going on.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I don't know how I'm gonna be able to say this because my concern was um I didn't want my voice to be associated with people hearing that.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And several people in the room offered to do it for me, and I was like, there's I I've been doing all these others.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I I don't think it would be fair or right that it's like, okay, when it gets tough, somebody else will do it.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I worked with um Kelly Williamson and Cesary McQueen from search they were there, helping us on the on the mental health aspect and trying to teach us about trauma in a very condensed time frame as we're dealing with trauma all around us, and they helped me what write up what I was gonna say.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And every day before that, when I was gonna say something, um I was always able to find a room in the public safety building that was empty that I could record it and send it off to them.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd go to record it, I could not find a single empty room.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Every every door I opened, every somebody was in there.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was up at the fire hall, the Coast Guard and you and a bunch of the um volunteer fire department were over by the office, and there was an empty table over in the kitchen.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is probably far enough away from everybody.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna sit over here and record this.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Took me a few times to record it, and as soon as I was done, I just broke down in tears.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: My head was on the table, and in a couple seconds, I heard this woman's voice asking who's over there, who is that?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked up and I could barely I didn't have my glasses on to I couldn't really see, but then I recognized it was Becky Nash's voice, and right behind Becky was you, and it took a while, you guys were there to comfort me through that, and talking to Becky later, she she'd been there volunteering downstairs every day, and that was she said for some reason she had this voice telling her she needed to go upstairs, and uh so she did, and she got to the top of the stairs right as I was finishing recording.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I looked at that and it was the same thing when you and Becky came over.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just had this peaceful feeling come over me, something I had never ever experienced in my life.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: My whole life, I've always had friends, people that much more religious than me, talking about how they always felt God was guiding their life, God was putting them in the positions they were.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is they were just following his path, and it and I always felt I was doing something wrong because I considered myself a Christian, not I wasn't going to church as much as I probably should have.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of things I probably I should have been studying the Bible, praying more, but I never had that feeling, so I always felt like I was doing something wrong personally until that moment, and then all these things started flashing through my head about different events that led up to that moment.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And in my mind, I'm like, my god, this God has been preparing me for this moment this whole time with these different things.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it was challenges that were put in front of me, different opportunities are put in front of me.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: And all this came up, and I was like, my god, this is the first time I've ever had this feeling.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was amazing, it was absolutely incredible.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: But then I was I was so excited to go to church that Sunday, and I probably shouldn't have.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: My emotions were so raw from being in that environment for five, six days at that point.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I go to church, it was 2020, still COVID restriction, you're supposed to be six feet apart.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm in the back with my mom and dad, and everybody else is kind of spaced throughout the church.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: And before service, two people came up and several people came up to talk to me, but two of them made comments.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember what they were, but one of them just both of them affected me one more than the other.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was shaking through the whole church service.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so uncomfortable and scared.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, I still haven't, it totally threw me for a loop.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: I still haven't figured out what I'm doing because I went from two or three days before having this feeling of being as close to God as I ever have.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then the first time I have a chance to worship in his house, I felt so uncomfortable, and it took a long time for me to go back.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: And even now, there's times that you know when they do passing of the peace, I usually leave the sanctuary because I just the anxiety that comes over me of what somebody could say going back to that.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it this is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, thank you for being one of the people that came over.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea how much that meant to me.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if I've ever thanked you for that before.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I remember it being a very powerful moment, but I've never I've never spoken of it since.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but no, that had a huge effect on me.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's something I I would say pretty much every day.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Something puts me back thinking about that moment and and and different aspects of life on religion and faith.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: You I you are one of the people that I think is one of the most faithful people that I know.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can I maybe that says something about me about not having enough faithful friends, but no, I just the way you've raised your family, the way you you you're c I always see you giving back to the community, and the way that you carry yourself and treat other people, I I think you're an outstanding representation for your church.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mean to put you on the spot on telling you this and that, but how how do you go through those things where like your faith is I'm I'm I'm assuming your faith is challenged at times as well, and and moving through that because I that's why they call it faith.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean because it requires us to believe when we don't have all the answers, you know.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um if we had all that, if we felt confident and knew everything all the time, we wouldn't need faith.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: If Jesus was standing here in front of us, well, okay, I guess I don't need faith now because he's right here in front of me.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the rest of the time we do need that faith, and it it's a step.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you're vulnerable.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're putting yourself out there.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I uh I've certainly have gone through periods where I've not been a good example.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I feel like um I've always been guided by what I've learned about the phase.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and one of those one of the biggest things is is humility.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean just trying to be humble.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's so much judgment in the world right now, and and has there always has been, you know.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: But people have a tendency to judge people and put them in categories.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about it a couple of times today.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you really have to make a concerted effort to try and put yourself in the other person's shoes.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: And often I fail.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I always try to do that.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that gives me a whole different perspective.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I really believe that God is in every person.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's one of the core things of our faith.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just basic human dignity.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um everyone has it.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're all made in the image and likeness of God, and I may see someone or deal with someone that's just nothing but a pain, and I want nothing to do with them, and then I have to tell myself, No, they're God is there.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: God created that person like him, and that's where you'll find Jesus, is in those difficult people.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to open my Myself up to everyone.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's very difficult, but that's what I try to do anyway.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that requires humility.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Lowering ourselves down.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I do my show of judging just like everyone else, but I catch myself doing it now more than I used to.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: So something we have to be aware of.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there are things that happens in our li happen in our lives where we can see God present clearly.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in our blessings, but that's why we really when things are really bad, that's when we really need to be looking because that's when he's really there.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Getting us through those things.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was one of those moments for you.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the the whole world was coming down on you.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: And man, the only way to get through it is to As crazy as it seems, is to let go.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: And let God.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about that quite a bit in in my homilies and things.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm very bad at it, at letting go.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I talked about I one time I took Christine up to Anchorage and she missed her flights here.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: They were gonna miss the flights.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: They canceled the flights in January.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: She was supposed to go to South Africa, and they were all meeting in Anchorage.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I got off work, working at the borough.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Said, well, what time is your flight?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: She says, like four o'clock in the morning.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, if we leave now, we can get there with a couple hours to spare.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it was middle of winter.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we took our little car and we drove all the way, drove all the way to Anchorage.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: I dropped her off.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had a few minutes to take a nap there at the airport.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: She caught up with her group.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: They all met there in Anchorage and she was off to South Africa.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, it's four o'clock in the morning or five, and nothing to do.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Might as well just go back.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I got up and went home.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was driving home on the way.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know how you drive on the icy roads.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get used to the ice and you can still do a pretty good speed.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you got your snow tires on and everything's good.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I remember there was this one bump, but I was getting to that trance phase.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't falling asleep or anything, but you're just in a zone and you're just kind of and then all of a sudden you see this thing on the side of the road and it's that flag and it reminds you, oh, this is that big bump, and it's too late, and you've already you're hitting it.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I hit that bump, and the car kind of it didn't go off the ground, but it really jolted.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when it came down, it started to slide, and it was ice.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know how you slide, you just go this you just turn into it, and you're correct.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it did that, but it went a little farther.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I turned back the other way and it went a little farther, and it's like it's getting wider wider.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: This goes on for like 10, 15 seconds, and I'm going down 75, 80 miles an hour on the highway, and they're getting wider.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: And first time in my life ever, I could tell, like, this is it, this is the last one.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going off the side.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I threw up my hand and I said, Oh, Jesus! Never done it in my life.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I swear to God, that car went straight as an arrow.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: Straight as an arrow.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: I put my hands back on the wheel and it just went straight ahead.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a story about letting go.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some sometimes that's all that's left.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Letting it go.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, God'll take care of it one way or the other.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe I would have gone off the side, but somehow it didn't.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of a story.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Out of college, I moved to Minnesota to work for my uncle's air freight company.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was getting close to Thanksgiving.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was right around Thanksgiving.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: First snowstorm in Minneapolis.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to go pick up some freight at Advanced Machine because they had it was late in the day.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: They needed it back.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was gonna get air freighted somewhere, it was uh priority shipment.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: The only truck that they had was the first truck that he had bought.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: The brakes weren't the best, tires weren't the best, like starting to be some rust through the floor.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can almost see that they can picture it.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, small box truck, nothing big was not the best vehicle.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, take that, go pay.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a large package, go pick it up and bring it back.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Got up there, coming back.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're there's like four lanes on the freeway.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's I know this vehicle's not in the best of shape.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's kind of going slow.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: First snowfall, 40, 45 miles an hour.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the center lane, and all of a sudden it starts spinning.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: We did, I did one or two revolutions.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: I went from the and I went from the center to the left, and I'm cranking the wheel to go back the other way.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: I it comes out of that, starts going, and so I go from the center to the left, all the way to the right, the truck starts going, and it's right where an on-ramp is coming down.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: I go across the grass, come up on the on-ramp, and the truck turns, and I started heading out, and I look in the rear view mirror.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's cars all around me, and I look in the rear view mirror, there's this wall of headlights back there, and there's just this big empty space.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: My heart was gone a million miles an hour.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: I got to the office, and I said, There's a truck, I'm not going.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: They said, No, no, no, you got to take it over to the airport.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, I am not taking that over to the airport, somebody else can.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the office member guy's like, No, no, no, Doug, you need to get in there and go out there.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the the guy above him, he looked at me and he goes, We'll get somebody else to take care of that.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I cannot drive that vehicle.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot go.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was quarter mile, half mile over to the northwest air at the time to the air freight.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way I could get in that truck.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was that's just such a hopeless feeling.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny that I mean I just keep thinking about that point where I I knew that I was not in control.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: There was no it's like I was in control.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in control, I'm in control.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I'm not in control.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you don't get there very often.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, the fact realizing that, and I've had other similar experiences in airplanes flying and things where it's like, man, I'm not flying this airplane right now.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: The wind is smashing me from both sides and it's tipping this way and tipping that way, opposite of what I'm doing.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, Lord, guess it's in your hands, you know.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, it's interesting when you get to that point and you must have felt that when that thing cut loose.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was I have I've there was nothing that I did that got me out of that.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: I and the the fact that I I don't I have no idea how, other than God moving everybody around, wouldn't it be kept from drone footage of that from to see what actually my mom would want to see drone footage of that uh I might want to see it once, but yeah, living through it was was enough.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know I don't know if I need to see it again.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: That was that yeah, that was pure panic mode trying to figure out what's gonna happen.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, those are the big things to me.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it's and they're the most challenging.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Humility and letting go of control, knowing that we're not in control, really.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: We think we are a lot of the time, but we're not.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: So my my friends will tell you it's that second one that I have I that I have the most trouble with.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wanna yeah.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta I won't let you know everything's gotta be in its place until it's done.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, it's gotta be in the right spot.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: But but things will work out even if you don't follow it every inch of the way, you know?
• 1:08:01
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's challenging.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's very challenging.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things for me, you were you were mentioned it earlier, is the judgment aspect.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think growing up in a small town where everybody knows each other.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've felt a lot of judgment.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: My I I I've told a few people this, but I remember when I became an Eagle Scout, and the the three comments that I remember from that ceremony were, what took you so long?
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's three others that got there before me.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: How come you don't have more merit badges?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: And how come you're not or how come you there they didn't know it was order of the arrow, but it was ordered the arrow.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: They said, How come you're not how everybody else has it?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: How come you it's like I wasn't here when they did it?
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I but those are those are the three things that I still remember.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was what 39 years ago that I became an Eagle Scout.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that that those are the things that I remember.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like, wow, not very many people.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it was it's like, well, I've I failed.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody talks about how hard it is to be an Eagle Scout, but I I failed because I didn't have enough mayor badges, it took me too long, and I I didn't get OA as as part of the process along the way.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, the higher you go, the more judgment will be heaped upon you.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, then it makes you feel any better.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: There are people that laid it out for me to be an Eagle Scout, and uh I still only made life.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: So there's nothing wrong with being a least I wasn't at least I wasn't on the podium.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: Life was a pretty significant achievement as well, Vince.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot that goes into that.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I enjoyed it.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was I really got a lot out of scouting.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great thing.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: We we were lucky we had some really good Scoutmasters.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: We were you know with John Bruce and uh Steve McFeeders and Kurt Ramser, you know, those were we had we were really fortunate to have some people that and that and I and I think too looking back on it, that made an impression on me that why I I try to volunteer and give back into things because those individuals giving up their time, taking us to Eagle River and Juneau, taking us camping on the weekends, taking us to National Jamboree, you know, all the fundraising stuff we did.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: You you look at the amount of it took us a lot of time, but the amount of time that they took out of their life to volunteer and make those opportunities possible for us.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like at some point you gotta you gotta pay it back in some way.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and when you have kids in Haynes, you end up doing them all.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I don't have any kids, but I try and try and make it good for my niece and nephews, and the other part of their lives.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the other part too is growing up in Hanes, you you pretty much know all the kids from a young age, the ones that grow up here.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of them are kind of like family, even if they're not, just because you've watched them from a young age, you want whatever activities they're in or the plays they're in, you see them when they're in fourth grade, you see them in I mean you just see that progression of them, and it's and uh it's kind of cool to see that see as they become the people that they're gonna be as adults.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when you're involved in the community in that way, it it really does seem like a family in a way.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I came from a big family, but my community was like I said, it was a small town, and delivering the newspaper, the interesting thing about that was that I got to know virtually every person in town.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And back then we would collect, we would go out and get the the money for the money.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: You'd go knock on the door at the end of the month.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd go from everybody from the drunken furrier to the judge, you know.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and probably all in the same night.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And everything in between.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then drunken furrier would be saying, Well, I got twenty-six cents here, uh come back tomorrow for the rest or whatever.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the judge you'd sit down and they'd serve you tea and cookies and a whole bit, you know.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, high tea at the judge's house.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in a small town, you have the whole gamut there too.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um but you do learn how it happens.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh I was involved in 4-H and Boy Scouts, um a lot of school activities and all those people given of their time.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't have been possible without that.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I had great scout masters, took us on ski trips and camping trips, wilderness trips.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um just and we they really pushed us to do the planning and stuff.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_01: But their part was still huge.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's one of the neat things.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you doesn't have to be a small town to have that sense of community either.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you have those groups, those things, those um shared activities and things, shared interests, and it's just life, sharing life with people.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you get to do that in hands.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing I've really enjoyed about being here.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's you feel like you're part of something here, and there's so many opportunities.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: You are part of something here, because it seems like you're part of a lot of things, because you you don't seem to take a lot of time off.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's so after you were manager, how long was it before you start you were the director at Hal, Haynes Assisted Living?
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your next step after manager?
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was my next regular job.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I drove the school bus and did some private contracting work and um while I was working on the assisted living, I was on that board as we developed the plans and put it all together thanks to Lucy and Jim and all of that.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that was probably my next regular paying job.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then also drive an ambulance, and you're on the fire department, right?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are you still in the fire department?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've been on the fire department for 23 years now, I think.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty some anyway.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, it's uh it's been a good experience.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, a lot of stuff with church.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And as your kids are growing up, you're on you do all the things that they do, you know, the swim team, the sports, the we got to do venture scouts those years when my kids were young.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: That was a great experience for my kids.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we even had that foreign exchange student.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: She was a little princess, she came from a rich family in Paraguay, and she came here and she did everything.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_01: She said that when they call the people's names when they're in their home country and they say where you're gonna go, and everybody's there going, Oh, not Alaska, no, no, not Alaska.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then they call her name and they go, Alaska! She said, Oh, and she cried.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: She told us that when she got here.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but she did everything.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: She she camped in snow caves and on the pass, and they went up on the glacier, and grand dogs.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they did everything.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and she was right there in the middle of all of it.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And her father told her when she left, he said, You will enjoy it.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_01: You'll have a good experience.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she did.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_01: She ended up becoming Miss Paraguay.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you watched I didn't know that.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_01: A Miss World contest or whatever.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: She was Miss Paraguay.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Miss Paraguay.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I told you she was a princess, and she looked like a princess.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_01: She was just this I remember her when she was here.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's a combination of uh native Paraguayan and um German and European.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So she like really represented the culture there.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So my kids still hear from her.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one of these days.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're going to Colombia.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should make a side trip to the club.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Side trip down to Paraguay.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Knock on the door.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Surprise.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you're involved with hospice too?
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I've been I was on the hospice board for a long time, and then I I've done hospice since I got here pretty much.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was doing when I um between being the last city manag well, the city being a the borough manager and becoming the well, actually going being the city manager and then becoming the borough manager.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was getting more involved in hospice, and that's why I told him I didn't know if I'd be available all the time.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it worked out.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I still I still do a fair amount of hospice stuff when there's a need.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a CJ pulled me in and got me trained in how to prepare people for burial, and I still do that when it's needed here.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those things that you would never picture yourself doing, never think that you would do that, but then it's been something that's been really um it it fills you up.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those things that you don't realize.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You think people look at death as such a negative thing, but there's so many positive things that happen in the process.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And even just preparing someone for burial and being with the family and helping them to deal with that and and just the act of getting them put in their permanent place, you know.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um well, it's one of the corporal works of mercy to bury the dead, feed the hungry, clothe the naked.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, having just gone through that experience, I I had an understanding in my head about hospice and was always very impressed by people that choose to help with that and work with that.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: My uh level of respect is multitudes greater now after going through that experience with my dad.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh yeah.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know how you guys do that.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um but thank you.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I never thought I would be doing it, and here I am.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was from growing up near the cemetery.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's just uh when my f my father was pretty well, he had severe dementia the last 12 years of his life.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: For ten of those years, he was severely had severe dementia.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um my mother cared for him.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I would go down and visit.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was about the time that I got involved in hospice.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Realized that it was something that um was difficult, but so you never know, Doug.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you keep your heart open, you never know what you might end up being involved in.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we can use more hospice volunteers for sure.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_00: But when you never know I I don't think the time is right now.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um still still pretty raw.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh but yeah, it's yeah, just the scene amount of time that my mom was put in the last 38 years and the last few weeks when you have an hospice come in there and and sit with dad so she could get out and do some of her own stuff and everything was was such a blessing for her and the family.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's nice to be able to help, but it doesn't even come close to what I think of my mother in the same way.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that she took care of my dad those all those years was difficult as he was.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that your mom was just so dedicated and so compassionate and and always still always smiling and always just a good, content, loving person, you know.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So to do all that and to stay like that, so many people become bitter, you know, because I don't have a life, you know, but but they told them at the hospital that I think it was 90 or 95 percent of people that have that kind of accident and divorce.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's either it's it's either the person that was in the accident feels guilty and pushes the other person away, yeah, or the other person is like, yeah, I can't deal with all this, and it's like goodbye.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I was that was my senior year in high school, and sitting there listening to the doctors tell them that, and telling my mom and dad that the best thing they could do financially was to get a divorce.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got this traumatic experience.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_00: The doctors and nurses are saying the best thing that you can do is get a divorce.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they're looking at each other like, yeah, that's not gonna happen.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so for 38 years, you still have that memory of them being told 95, 90, 95% of people in this situation are going to get a divorce.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you should get a divorce because it's the best thing for you to do financially.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they blisted all these reasons and why the best thing for them was to get a divorce and to see them stay together for that 38 years and all the sacrifices my mom made over those 38 years.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank the Lord we have those examples in our lives because it shows us what people are really made out of.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it shows us it's like they're like saints, and it shows us what we can be like.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we have those examples, especially so close, you know, like your mother.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, amazing.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_00: She said she set a high bar for Sarah and I to follow.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck, guys.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're both doing I don't know any way that I'm ever gonna be like my mom.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be like her.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're both doing great.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty, pretty high standard there.
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're both awesome people.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it is, you know, kind of going to when I was asking you about your parents and being raised.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It I I feel very fortunate and blessed that the role models I've had in the house have been my mom and dad.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And even my sister.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the the the three older people that are all older be in the house and the example they set for me to follow.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very high bar to follow that they set.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it was uh yeah, there was some I was I was very, very fortunate for the family that I have, and not not just those three, but extended family in many ways with cousins and uncles and grandparents that they uh yeah, buried lust.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I heard your dad when he told me different stories while I visited with him, he it made me think about when I was younger because there's all these characters that came into his life.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean and I remember being at our dining room table and being small, looking over the top table and seeing these characters come into our house.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, room full of smoke, they're all smoking, but just listening to their stories, and some were poor, practically homeless, the others were very astute and well-known um leaders in the community, and just that variety, and they all had something to bring, you know, for f something for us to learn, you know.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and sometimes it was those those ones that were like living, there was kind of an old folks home down at the halfway down our street there.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_01: They had some elderly men that lived there, but they would always come and visit my mother and she'd always serve them something, and they'd sit there and chat, and yeah, they all had something to give, all had something to bring.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, amazing.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm glad that you got to have that kind of experience and here too.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh hearing your dad's stories, I can just imagine what some of those things were like.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, he uh him and his brothers had uh quite the childhood there for a while.
• 1:23:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Lot of lot of challenges, and and that's something that I remember him too, you know, going back to judgment when he was saying he remembers um before he went to stay with Matt and George, um his younger years and in both time.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: He when we were going to school, he says, if somebody doesn't have clean, you'd never make fun of somebody that you never judge somebody because he says the amount of ridicule that he'd have because he wore the same clothes for three or four days, because all he had.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hadn't had a chance to stay, didn't have a place to take a shower or a bath.
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, he was smelling after a few days, and and the amount of ridicule and stuff that he got at that that age.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: That those he was he wasn't necessarily saying don't do this, but he was telling us how it affected him, and in a way, saying don't do this because it's the best.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking to somebody, you've seen this is this is how it affected me, this is how I felt, and uh I think even more powerful that way.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what's uh what's Vince got coming up in the future?
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're going on a trip, but broader now that both you and Jancy are retired, but I don't know.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Are you really retired?
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I see both you guys always working on different projects.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh well, we got to shift gears and and everything we can grandparents now.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've got three grandkids, and yeah, we've got uh a six-year-old, a three-year-old, and a one and a half year old.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, they're bald, and Chancy likes to see them regularly, and we'll see them on the way on this trip as well.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um being retired, um I guess the biggest difference is that um all those things you did and didn't get paid for you can do now, and you actually have some money coming in because you're retired.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been blessed too.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we just we were lucky that we were able to save money, save our money, and um we just didn't do a lot when we were younger.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that made a difference for us and how we're able to retire.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um But uh it's the things that you well, when you first retire, you just you want to do everything and you realize you're just gonna you you should go back to work and get a job because it would be easier.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally you start to be able to you get to the point where you can pick the priorities and narrow it down a little bit.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm 66 this year, and um I remember when my grandparents were 66, my dad didn't make it to 66, he was 63, my mom made it to 80, but um I'm noticing that I don't do things as efficiently and as well or as fast.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm having to narrow down a little more and and try to focus on things where I can make a difference.
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And thank goodness I have have the church and uh the fire department can still use me.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I've noticed that my stamina um I'm not winded or anything.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I just don't have the same.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I run out of gas sooner.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I can drag a hose about half the distance I used to be able to drag it where I have to stop and say, you know, I'm not breathing hard or anything.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm just done, you know.
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's as far as I'm gonna go as far as I'm gonna push it.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you find yourself, you know, trying to back out of things a little bit more and trying to narrow things down.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm reading a book called The Fourth Quarter of Life, and it forces you to go back and think about all these things, and it and it forces you to face the fact that you're in the fourth quarter.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was in the fourth quarter a while ago.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I started reading it about a year ago and haven't finished it yet.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm in a little bit of denial, but uh real practical things to prioritize in your life.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and of course, faith, it's a faith-based book, so that's at the top of the list, and it should be.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because that's the longest part of life is the life that's yet to come.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So better try and prepare ourselves for that one.
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we still got a chance, we still get to fourth quarter, so I'm trying to take some of those things to heart.
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that is about uh it just keeps welling down to the same thing about love and compassion.
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you're gonna find fulfillment is in loving people, especially the ones that are the hardest to love and being compassionate to people.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_01: So many people don't have meaning in their life.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that complicated.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go out and do a a thesis on what the meaning of your life is.
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just realize that it's not just about you.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when you realize that it's helping others with whatever gifts you have is what gives you meaning in life.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Seems kind of easy in a way, but then there's so much.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_01: You realize that there's a million needs and you can only address a tiny portion, but then you just do what you can.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And there's some that are wondering that don't know if they have anything to give at all.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So trying to help the people understand what it is that they have.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's how my battle all the time.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just like I was telling you, with just fail failure to live up to what I perceive are expectations.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's I mean, I've I've I've I can't tell you a time that I felt like I've lived up to expectations.
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so much of it is, yeah, it's uh it's our our internal self, our internal internal selves, our our egos, if you will, you know, that we we look at it through our lens all the time.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the simplest way to to change that for me is to try and go outside myself and and just try to commit myself and and to doing things for others.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I mean I still I'm very selfish in many ways.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've lived a very good life and I have so much.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if you're looking for meaning, you'll find it in in serving others.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then this whole thing about achievement and expectations.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um one of the chapters, it wasn't this book, but it was another one I was reading.
• 1:29:41
  SPEAKER_01: The guy was talking about how he knew a guy that was a really good guy, he was an author, and he had written a book, and he was successful.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't like uh Elon Musk or anything, but he was he was successful and he had a comfortable life and a decent home and nice family and everything.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he was at a party and some friend was there that was hosting the party and he said, Hey, hey, you gotta meet my friend Bob.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Bob, come on over here.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Bob just bought another yacht.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's a he's a uh stockbroker or whatever.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_01: He he buys and sells companies and merges them, and and he just bought a yacht.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy was a little bit arrogant, and the guy that was kind of average was just was pretty nice.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_01: He just said he listened to the guy for a while, and he could tell that the guy was like, Yeah, I've got this and I've got that, and I'm gonna get this and I'm gonna get that.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he just smiled and he says, The guy was kind of quiet for a minute, and finally he spoke and he said, Well, I have something that that you're never gonna have.
• 1:30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy looks at him and says, What's that?
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Enough.
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_01: What else can you say?
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's the response to that?
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_01: He knows he has enough.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's not he doesn't have to rule the world or own the world, but he has enough.
• 1:30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so much of it is determining what's enough.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even me, I mean, that's what's enough.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think my uh on the other aspect of that is the the individu the people out there that aren't in our position, that aren't worried about if they have enough, but they're trying to get something to get by.
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they've whether it's been in family trauma, uh substance abuse, mental health issues, haven't got they they didn't grow up in an area that had a goals good school district, so they're behind on education and trying to find a uh how do we reach out because you see more and more maybe it's anecdotal, but you're you're seeing more of homeless situation and these these issues beyond Haynes, not necessarily here.
• 1:32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not expecting you to come up with a solution for this.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's one of those things that troubles me is how do we help those less fortunate than us see because it I've talked to some people that are struggling with some of these issues, and they're like, Well, yeah, I'm just they their their sense of self-worth is so low.
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's showing them how much God loves them and you know through the through through the Bible and how much each life has meaning, uh just to get them to get out of that spot where they're at and show them that they they do matter, yeah, that there is a place for them in this world that it's not as dark as it it can be dark at times, but there is that light at the end of the tunnel, and that there's people around them that love them and support them, even if they don't realize it.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's about hope.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like I said, I have nine siblings and we're a real mix, and there've been some really hard times for some of us, and um they there's times when they don't seem to have hope, and the only way to get out of that hopelessness is to get out and to live.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And living means interacting with other people.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever's in front of you, interact with them, you know.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Suck the some of the juice out of those people, you know, get around people that have energy and and live.
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I tell my siblings is um, you know, if you're bummed out, then get together with some people that you know.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know some people, let's find some people.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Here's some groups that you can participate in where there's a lot of people like you, you know, that are doing things and um living, loving, interacting.
• 1:33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's really not what you do, it's it's those interactions.
• 1:33:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's the other people having a perception of you beyond what is the obvious, you know.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_01: People never know those things until they get to know you.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So get to know people, spend time with them.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um realize they're you know they're gonna have their flaws too, but um can't live without other people.
• 1:34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and helping people is one of the best ways to get to know people, especially people who have all these preconceived notions about things like immigration, you know.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody gets just thrown into one bucket, and this is what an immigrant is.
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_01: There are criminals that are abusing the country, and it's like, well, which ones were those?
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll bet there are some like that.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_01: But what about this person?
• 1:34:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're an immigrant.
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Get to know them.
• 1:34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what you find out in the process is that they're humans just like you.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in that process of interacting, you grow.
• 1:34:58
  SPEAKER_01: You change, you think you're gonna change them, and they change you.
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's pretty amazing, yeah.
• 1:35:06
  SPEAKER_01: How often that happens in life.
• 1:35:08
  SPEAKER_01: We think we're gonna go help somebody, and we go staggering out of there like they just set me straight.
• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Something I hadn't even thought about.
• 1:35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Look what they're dealing with, you know.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's something to that that you know, you you you go thinking you're gonna help somebody else out, and just their at whether it's their attitude or how they're I I've I've found uh inspiration in a lot of people that most people would look at and was like, Yeah, how would you be inspired by that individual?
• 1:35:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, if you spend a little time get to know them and knowing that they have the struggles they do, and yet they're still as friendly and nice and yeah, positive as they are throughout their struggles, it's an amazing thing to see people at night.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the people I thought were the biggest ogres turns out to be some of the nicest people ever.
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're just putting on a show.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_03: Just self-protection article.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot of people do that.
• 1:36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so just get to know people, and uh you'll get to know yourself.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Easy for me to say.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still working on it too, believe me.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're all we're all a work in progress.
• 1:36:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Got a long time.
• 1:36:29
  SPEAKER_00: At least uh at least I I hope I'm still progressing.
• 1:36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be a finished product yet.
• 1:36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got too many things I'm working on.
• 1:36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the biggest thing at my age, you know, when you get to 66, you're like, well, what am I still growing?
• 1:36:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I should be, you know.
• 1:36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You better be it was the guy, Gene Kranz, you remember him from Apollo 13, he was the guy behind the controls, running everything.
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_01: He he gave a talk about how when he was a kid his dad wasn't around very much.
• 1:36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he went to a a school with a uh Catholic school with some nuns and stuff, and they could see he had potential, but he was overweight, so he didn't he didn't think he could be a pilot or something.
• 1:37:07
  SPEAKER_01: But these nuns kept encouraging him and encouraging him.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they introduced him to a man who was a fabricator or uh who's the guy that lived down by the water that was he was always putting building stuff, putting stuff together, fabrication and uh oh gosh, I can't remember.
• 1:37:25
  SPEAKER_01: What was it?
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Tim Hannon?
• 1:37:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, uh no, well Jim Tim was kind of like that too, but the guy right down on the beach in the greenhouse, I think Cesory might have ended up in.
• 1:37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Ed Vogel.
• 1:37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Vogel.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Ed Vogel.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Guy like that, you know.
• 1:37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he was with a guy like that, and he said, you know, have ideas, build things, fix things, you know.
• 1:37:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't just lounge around, you know.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Get involved, you know, make something.
• 1:37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do something, make something, you know.
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um you'll grow in that process.
• 1:37:57
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy ended up changing his life.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_01: He he ended up, and the nuns, they he didn't get into the academy, Navy Academy, but he got into ROTC and then he worked his way up and he was a fighter pilot and everything else, and ended up running Apollo missions, you know.
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Gene Kranz, he's got some really interesting stories.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great guy.
• 1:38:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's one of my heroes.
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I got to see him at Oshkosh in 2018, and uh, he was with uh a couple of the astronauts and uh the one who just passed away this year, too.
• 1:38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um several of them were there, and Gene was there in the middle of them, and he was still kind of like making sure everybody's where they're supposed to be.
• 1:38:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was kind of like, well, I don't know if that's true, Buzz, because Buzz Buzz was going on about yeah, he was kind of getting up there and talking about the pool thing and how he it was his idea to have weightlessness in a pool, and seems like, well, yeah, well, uh I don't think it was quite like that to a Buzz, but anyway, and then he talked about something else.
• 1:39:00
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, he's he's an interesting person, and he really had to work to get to where he he was.
• 1:39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he overcame a lot of things to get there.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but he had this mentor, this person that kind of took him under his wing and gave him inspiration.
• 1:39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and just by living with him and living his life with him, he he learned and he sucked some of that juice out of him, the inspiration out of him, and applied it to his own life.
• 1:39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the other guy did it in a small way.
• 1:39:33
  SPEAKER_01: He was he was a great fabricator, did a lot of interesting things, but um he took it to the next level, you know, from that kind of thing.
• 1:39:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's often the case that you can have uh that one person or a couple people, that influence at a at the right age when a person's ready to hear this or or feel that or move in that direction can change somebody's life tremendously.
• 1:39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when you're in that doubting phase.
• 1:40:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of a good for nothing, yeah.
• 1:40:06
  SPEAKER_01: My wife will say, Hey, yeah, that sounds like you said, I'll do that.
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is she gonna pawn you off on a fabricate and you'll go live with him for a while?
• 1:40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I start doing that every once in a while.
• 1:40:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a bum, you know.
• 1:40:18
  SPEAKER_01: She just w gets up and walks away now.
• 1:40:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta get over it.
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Figures after all these years she's probably it's probably gonna be a recurring uh comment.
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's too late too late to fix you.
• 1:40:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, even at but at this stage, what I was starting to talk about was just it it is harder to figure out, okay, what can I still am I still growing?
• 1:40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Am I still contributing?
• 1:40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully you have people around you that'll suck the juice out of you, at least the good things, you know, hopefully, and someone that you can share it with.
• 1:40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And in the fourth quarter, not all of us are in our eighties and are presidents of a different countries or 92 and the presidents of countries, you know.
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna have to do it in a more practical way, just by living with the people that are around us and sharing the gifts we have with them.
• 1:41:10
  unknown: Anyway.
• 1:41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I didn't mean to go on so long.
• 1:41:14
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Quite alright.
• 1:41:16
  SPEAKER_00: All good stuff.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's lots more.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think about so many different things.
• 1:41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I hadn't thought about my college years that long.
• 1:41:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just wrote a little thing about it for my kids.
• 1:41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh was something that you that you did that you didn't follow through on.
• 1:41:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was uh Oh, I said, yeah, when I was uh at the University of Montana, they hadn't had a rodeo team for several years, and a bunch of us got together and we there was somebody that was trying to start it back up again, and we worked with them to get it started again.
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was time for the rodeo.
• 1:42:01
  SPEAKER_01: We actually put a rodeo together in the field house at the University of Montana.
• 1:42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we don't have any bull riders, so I guess I'll do it, you know.
• 1:42:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and I went to practice and rode a bowl, and then next thing I know, it was time for the rodeo, and I'm entered in and the guy in the round before me, I'm standing in the back down there by where the ambulance is parked, he gets stomped on and they carry him out in an ambulance, and it's my turn.
• 1:42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I go out there and I I hang on and I do the ride and I ride my eight seconds and I get I get off after the buzzer finally goes off.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_01: His his antler got his antler, his horn got caught in the gate, so the clock didn't even start for like two or three seconds while he was spinning around to get out of there.
• 1:42:45
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I made it through the eight seconds and I got off and I f I got off on my feet.
• 1:42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I actually jumped off and landed on my feet, but then I fell and I looked up and there he was right ahead of me, and he was pawing the ground and starting and getting ready to come, and the fence was right there.
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like got up and I ran like crazy, and I got to that fence, and I pulled myself up in the highest part, and he hit me right here.
• 1:43:09
  SPEAKER_01: He just swung me like a pendulum, and I still hung onto the fence, and I swung back down, and then I jumped back over the fence, and I got over to the other side, and my two friends were right there, two good buddies from college, and they could see I had this ashen look on my face.
• 1:43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there was TV cameras, even that were there, and they stepped between me and those cameras, and I blew chow right there.
• 1:43:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that night my friend Randy was saying, and he'd been around um livestock a lot and stuff, and he said, Vince, he said, you'd be a great bull rider if you had half the brains.
• 1:43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that was my last uh your one and only?
• 1:43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was it.
• 1:43:56
  SPEAKER_01: My only one in the actual rodeo, yeah.
• 1:43:59
  SPEAKER_00: So every time so your whole rodeo experience, you made eight seconds on every bull ride.
• 1:44:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a hundred percent.
• 1:44:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're a hundred percent.
• 1:44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them.
• 1:44:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're 100% bull ride.
• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_01: The first guy was getting mad that we were there, we were actually the trade was he would let us use his rodeo stock, but we had to help him with branding and everything, so we were there all that day.
• 1:44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I got on there.
• 1:44:18
  SPEAKER_01: We did the riding first, and and I was writing, and I couldn't figure out why he was so he was over on the stump in his feet and screaming and stuff.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_01: And finally I got off and he was like ready to kill me.
• 1:44:27
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You're gonna break my bulls.
• 1:44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want the bulls to I want to be able to buck.
• 1:44:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're not supposed to stay on.
• 1:44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Supposed to get off.
• 1:44:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the hor one of his horses got me back later.
• 1:44:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were running on two stalls, and I we were sticking a pipe behind him to hold them in there, and it was up against this board, and I accidentally stuck it on the backside, and that horse kicked that thing, and it I flew through the air and landed 25 feet away.
• 1:44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily it didn't break my leg or anything, but anyway.
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so the bull riding thing, that's you think about things you do just to so you can say, Well, I did something, you know.
• 1:45:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I was I did not expect to learn about Vince Hansen bull rider, 100% success ratio in this podcast tonight when we were talking about this.
• 1:45:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is the least likely thing I probably thought I was gonna hear from you.
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's just like still like me and the manager, you know.
• 1:45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I left with 100% support.
• 1:45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody on the assembly still liked me.
• 1:45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody still liked you.
• 1:45:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is the this is a trend for you.
• 1:45:32
  SPEAKER_00: While you're ahead were there meetings at the end of the meetings where you go out and going outside and blowing job too?
• 1:45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Was that just a bull riding thing?
• 1:45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I recall, yeah.
• 1:45:43
  SPEAKER_01: I do remember it feeling a little uh nauseous a couple of times, yeah.
• 1:45:48
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, yeah, so but yeah, you don't have to go out and ride bulls to prove that you you're somebody.
• 1:45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just get to know people, they'll see it in you.
• 1:45:58
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go to extremes.
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's comforting because I have no plans on riding a bull.
• 1:46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be able to explain it to my kids.
• 1:46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And while they were young, I didn't say anything.
• 1:46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then they there was a picture and they saw, and finally I had to explain it.
• 1:46:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, yeah, yeah, I did it, but I don't recommend it, you know.
• 1:46:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you got pictures of people riding?
• 1:46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it what was funny was they ended up making a commercial for the next year because they were all they thought it went great, you know.
• 1:46:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was a great rodeo.
• 1:46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 1:46:26
  SPEAKER_01: They made a commercial, and one of and in in the commercial, I got to see a little piece of it when I went back a couple years later, somebody had it.
• 1:46:33
  SPEAKER_01: They were able to show it to me.
• 1:46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have didn't have like phones and stuff to record things.
• 1:46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody had to go find the tape and play it for you.
• 1:46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there it was, and it was like round and round, and I tipped off one side and I was about to go off, and then he swung the other way, so I went back up, and then he shows me on the ground, and then it shows me grabbing the fence and him hitting me and swinging me, and then it shows me going over the fence, and then thank goodness it went cut.
• 1:47:00
  SPEAKER_00: So is that University of Montana?
• 1:47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, 1982.
• 1:47:04
  SPEAKER_01: 1982.
• 1:47:05
  SPEAKER_00: We need to see if we can find that.
• 1:47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, good luck.
• 1:47:07
  SPEAKER_00: We need to see if we can find that video, Marley.
• 1:47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck.
• 1:47:09
  SPEAKER_01: We need to if you do, that'd be that'd be awesome.
• 1:47:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see it again.
• 1:47:13
  unknown: But yeah.
• 1:47:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, that would be great for Yeah, it wasn't the most beautiful ride.
• 1:47:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was doesn't matter, you stand off for eight seconds.
• 1:47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I got a 67, which is a respectable score, but luckily there were riders that were better.
• 1:47:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember they were saying the score, and I was like, okay, okay.
• 1:47:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had to wait till it was all done, and then they said the other scores, and I realized I'm not going to the final.
• 1:47:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to do that again.
• 1:47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so anyhow.
• 1:47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's really been good talking to you.
• 1:47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Any any other things in particular that you wanted to I can't think of anything unless you have anything.
• 1:47:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just hope I got enough out of you.
• 1:47:54
  SPEAKER_01: You say you hopefully you're learning stuff about yourself in this process too.
• 1:47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And well, I am, and I think it's gonna be throughout this with because my my thought on this is yeah, I look back and growing up in the store from like I was eight, nine years old when I started helping out behind the store, and and just the no and then my dad was politically minded for a lot for his whole life, and so different politicians come to town, they'd come for dinner, the different customers I'd meet at the store from all sorts of different backgrounds, and then when he started the Bald Legal Foundation, the different biologists and people from Audubon and stuff that'd be coming, they'd have dinner at our house, and people that wanted to support this center would come for dinner at our house, and kind of like you as a young kid, you're sitting there and you're absorbing all these conversations.
• 1:48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it got to be a point at a certain age, then I could start asking questions to kind of join in the in the conversations.
• 1:48:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I learned so much from different people, and it's it's really shaped who I am as a person, and so I think just having these conversations with individuals such as yourself, um, and letting the community know, or whoever's listening, the broader context, because so much of what we we get in these silos of Vince is this, this, and this.
• 1:49:12
  SPEAKER_00: And even I didn't know you're you're a bull rider.
• 1:49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I shouldn't probably say it in public.
• 1:49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm I'm uh you rode two bulls eating your body.
• 1:49:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm calling that a bull rider.
• 1:49:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've got zero.
• 1:49:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so many people in Haynes, and so many people I've had a chance to interact with that I think have really cool stories, and I'm hoping to share more of those.
• 1:49:34
  SPEAKER_00: And by sharing your stories and others, and just through the conversation, I think people if they if they look don't get bored listening to these and decide they want to listen to more, I think they're gonna learn more about me too.
• 1:49:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, cool.
• 1:49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a mutual not that anybody I I don't think anybody probably wants to learn more about me, but if they listen to this, you'd be surprised, they will.
• 1:49:54
  SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised.
• 1:49:55
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a big job because you're the editor, man.
• 1:49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's got you got a lot of sift through here.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I and the thing I've told Marty too is I if it goes for two hours, it goes for two hours.
• 1:50:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need I'm not shooting for like 30 minutes or an hour or something like that.
• 1:50:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to have a broad story that we can tell and tell somebody's story, and they can always fast forward, they can always fast forward, they can skip over parts or yeah, yeah.
• 1:50:21
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I I just appreciate you being willing to and that the the thing that's been really humbling for me, Vince, is the number of people that when I've approached them, because as of the time we're recording this, none of these are online yet.
• 1:50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the number of people when I've approached them said, Listen, I I'm starting a podcast, I'd like to tell your story.
• 1:50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody said yes.
• 1:50:43
  SPEAKER_00: And well, that's that might change once some of these are out there and they see what it's like.
• 1:50:47
  SPEAKER_01: That also says something about people's perception of you.
• 1:50:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of respect for you in this community, and someone like you asks, and people take it seriously.
• 1:50:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's you know, it's not just being thrown out there, it's but you got a lot of thought going into it.
• 1:51:02
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 1:51:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it it has meant a lot to me, the amount of trust that people have had.
• 1:51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done anything like this before.
• 1:51:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Neither have I.
• 1:51:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I I don't I don't know what I'm doing.
• 1:51:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm hoping Marty does a great job editing this and making it make me look halfway intelligent here in what I'm doing.
• 1:51:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it and I and I realize as we go forward with this, I I hope that I grow with this the more we do.
• 1:51:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I hope the 10th is better than the first and the 20th is better than the 10th, and just get more comfortable as what I'm going forward with this.
• 1:51:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I've I'm in I've enjoyed every conversation that I've had so far.
• 1:51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I guess I eventually got to the point where I just looked at it that way.
• 1:51:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a conversation with you.
• 1:51:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get to have conversations with you that often, so I appreciate the opportunity.
• 1:51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, people won't watch two hours or whatever.
• 1:51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Has it really been two hours almost?
• 1:51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Almost two hours.
• 1:51:52
  SPEAKER_00: It went really fast.
• 1:51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And most people are like, yeah, this won't be very long.
• 1:51:56
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, Marty tells them how long we recorded and everything.
• 1:51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:51:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect it to be that long.
• 1:52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Should let you guys go.
• 1:52:02
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, I realized I was digging potatoes earlier and I didn't clean my shoes very well.
• 1:52:07
  SPEAKER_01: So give me a don't worry about it.
• 1:52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a broom and I'll get it picked up here.
• 1:52:12
  SPEAKER_00: The owner will vacuum up later.
• 1:52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about it.
• 1:52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks again, Vince.
• 1:52:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you being here.
• 1:52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good to maybe we'll have you again and hear some more of your stories.
• 1:52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 1:52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for watching this episode of Doug Had's Questions.
• 1:52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just a reminder: if you've enjoyed the conversation today, please like, subscribe.
• 1:52:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're available on YouTube if you want to watch us, if you just want to listen.
• 1:52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and you have new uh episodes being launched every Thursday.
• 1:52:45
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks again for watching or listening and following us.
• 1:52:49
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate your support.