Latest / Momtalk Maryland / Protecting Your Family’s Future: What Every Parent Should Know About Estate Planning

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Protecting Your Family’s Future: What Every Parent Should Know About Estate Planning · Momtalk Maryland

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friends, and welcome to Mom Talk Maryland.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Claire Duarte, founder of the Columbia Mom.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: And this is your spot for real conversations, local love, and a whole lot of community.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're folding laundry, running errands, or hiding in your car for some peace and quiet, let's dive in.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have Laura Curry here today on our podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she's obviously another fellow Columbia mom.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we've recently connected and I'm so excited to kind of like nerd out with you as we talk about.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, we're gonna talk about your law firm, your field, your business, and obviously how you can kind of keep helping um Howard County moms and parents and their families and things like that.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because frank, you know, well, actually, no, let me not jump ahead before because I we're gonna go on caveats, we're gonna go on tangents, you know.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is a wild fun road.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um but but please tell us all um about yourself, um, how you got started in and starting your own business because you kind of had like a little bit of a um an untraditional well, I don't I I sort of I love and hate that word a little bit because it sounds weird, but just like you're all you're carving out your own path.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well first off, thanks for having me, Claire.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate being here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I've been an attorney for about 20 years, as scary as that is to say, at this point.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wild.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: How are we old enough to be have to have been working that long?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know, like I show up today, I'm like, I feel like I'm a half adult.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh well, let me start with I grew up in Howard Ken.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So first and foremost, moved down here when I was 10, um, went to school in this area, went up to uh Massachusetts area for college, but came back down here for law school.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the University of Baltimore School of Law.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, we talked about that.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And when I first was in law school, I thought I just wanted to do family law.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was my thing.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I took a lot of my courses, connected to that, did a clinic where you actually represent people as a law school law school student.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um in the city.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: In the city.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: My first court appearance was Baltimore City District Court helping somebody get a protective order.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was a wild day.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's naturally what you would have been doing in the city.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was work, yes.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and got a job doing family law, um, which was great.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and did that for a couple years, and it was trial by fire.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was in court once I was actually barred as an attorney within two weeks.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had a three-day trial within six months.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was great work, it was hard work.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, great experience.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: But realized that, you know, 20, 30, 40 years down the road, I didn't see myself going to court every day.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in court four or five times a week when you're doing family law.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's all that's that's what I've heard.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then um it was like 2009, 2010, where the economy wasn't great.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: The job market was really challenging.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ended up at a few different law firms.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um always thought estate planning with the connection back to family law made sense.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back to school um at that time to back to before.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say that's not like I feel like especially once you're you've joined or started your career.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And not just started working, like you had your license and and everything like that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a hard decision to be like, I'm gonna go back and add more.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes joked it was just a way to delay paying my student loans.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and there's strategies involved.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but went and did my LLM in taxation with a focus on estate planning, and then worked really hard to try to find a job for many years in that um world in estate planning.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, was lucky enough to have the opportunity back in 2018 to join a firm, a mid-sized firm in Annapolis, um, where I worked for about seven or eight years, and it was a great experience.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I really was, you know, managing the firm.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was, as I said, a mid-sized firm.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: We had about eight or nine attorneys at one point.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: We had a staff of about 15.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it really takes, you know, one attorney really managing.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I, after a few years, kind of lost the connection with clients, very honestly, because I was running the firm.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, as life has it, yeah, throws you curve balls.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Always, always throw you curve balls.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I found myself needing to make a change for myself at the end of this past year in 2025.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um took some time, honestly, to kind of evaluate what I wanted to do.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a lot of people around that time after I left the firm while I was exploring opportunities, you know, say, why don't you hang out your own shingle?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you do this on your own?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I it didn't really even cross my mind, and I'm not sure why.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a lot of people, again, friends, professionals, existing clients.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so certainly started to think about it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Also applied to work at some banks, kind of completely different.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, why not?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ultimately just said by you know, late February, early March of 2026 of this year, just said I'm gonna do it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't hesitated since.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I opened up my own law firm uh focusing on estate planning, estate administration, and elder law work um in March, I guess, officially with the state.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right, right, right.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: By the by the date, yes, yes.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but had a few clients that stuck with me from the past firm come over in March and then really have just been working hard to put myself out there um and build a practice that I'm proud of, and then I can really have that connection with clients.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so important, especially with a state planning.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and now that you're in a different realm, I mean it's I probably arguably less in family law, like you definitely need your close connection with clients, but you're getting close connection with them, probably regardless because of like how much but you probably needed a bigger team because of like how much you're in and out of the court and things like that, because you need um like your assistants to help like filing and things like that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um but well, and I I'm I laugh too, because like I think from the time that you the actual time from you leaving your Annapolis position to starting the firm, but probably wasn't even that long of you know what I mean.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like that's such like the woman uh in us or the mom in us, you know what I mean?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like let's find ourselves, but like also like we're gonna like go on a whole new adventure at the same time.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we had the holidays.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so then it was just like immediately just the type of person that many of us are.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, I and I can go back to like mom, so I felt guilty trying to like figure it out.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know it was really hard to slow down.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think I did take some time and I read more books this past couple months than I ever have.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, but um was very quickly like I need to be doing something and I wanted to.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, exactly.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's been great.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's and that's kind of like an important part of that discovery process.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you probably didn't have the time and the space to do some of that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And now, you know, you're not only able to maybe have a little bit more balance in your life, but now you're creating something and building something um that's ironically like just for you, like, you know, your own business.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And even though you were like still probably like managing and doing a lot of the same things, it's like no one can take that away from you, which is I think is the cool thing about being an entrepreneur.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um that's what you said earlier about like um you know, you never thought about starting on your own.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like I relate to that so much too, because at least for me, like in my family, I don't come from like a line of entrepreneurs or um anybody else doing that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like my mom's a career accountant, my dad works in commercial um real estate and all these other things.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it never once crossed my mind or thought about like one day I might want to start my own business.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I never, you know, and that's like you know, and I also went to University Baltimore and I have my master's degree in counseling psychology, so I was about to become a therapist.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and funny, I don't even think I had had wh when I was originally like, you know, planning on becoming a therapist, I don't even I thought the same thing of just joining a practice.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of starting my own, oh God.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean most people and frankly, like I think that's kind of very common in all fields, whether you're uh a lawyer or a doctor.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like most people aren't, you know, because you need a lot of funds to like start off on your own, you know what I mean?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: But um anyways, I think it's it's it's funny because everywhere you hear, it's like, you know, there there's a lot of value in being able to start your own business and what you can kind of do with it, but it's it's also uh it's not that it's shunned, it's just I don't think that there's as much resources out there, especially when you're younger or on the younger side of your career, which makes sense because we don't have as much, you know, funds and capitals when we're starting out.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's just not like discussed a lot about like, hey, just go out on your own because that's kind of against the grain a little bit.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's scary.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's definitely moments where like, what am I doing?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you know constantly.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But constantly say, you know, the flexibility and again kind of really taking the time to figure out what I want it to look like in terms of the process with clients and the connection with clients.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I went out to lunch with a client for the first time.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my price before was just kind of you know a lot.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say it was high volume, but it was a little bit of high volume, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of the nature of the beast, I feel like it is.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now I have the ability to say, yeah, I would love to go to lunch um and get to know you more.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's not every client, but I'm happy when the opportunity in that setting and that works, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it was wonderful.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it's I don't remember if I told you this before, but my first job out of college, I worked for a family law firm.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, you didn't know that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was like I was literally only there like a year.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it was again one of those just like, you know, trying to find myself, but like a friend of mine um knew and this is down in Rockville, um right next to I guess it's the the circuit court.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, sure.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't uh I didn't have like my paralegal certificate.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I looked into it and I was like, do I want to be a paralegal?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't think I do.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I was so I was just their admin, you know what I mean?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I remember learning all those processes.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this was back in what year was this is 2010 as well, so like 16 years ago.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I just I mean obviously I didn't work with the clients, um, but uh I mean yeah, it is it it's busy, it's very, you know, uh a very draining process.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's necessary, you know what I mean?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um but uh yeah, that was that was my kind of like my little like dip into the legal world, just you know, from the family side of things.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So but you know, the other I mean the interesting and reason why I have you here today is because to talk more specifically about estate planning.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like this is great because again, I feel like I don't uh know this world as well.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's kind of like when we were first talking, it's like a lot of times, you know, I don't know how many families in Howard County, like maybe maybe the majority of people do have their um what's it called, their their wills and things like that all rowed up.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean that that's like the shoulds, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like you should.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about the shoulds and you know, um, but is that how it kind of formally plays out?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'd be very curious to know, like, you know, if we could pull Howard County, how how many families have their plan in place?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, plan in place.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm curious, is that the majority or is it less?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's probably less than we think.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the national statistic is that less than one-third of the entire adult population has a plan in place.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been in rooms full of estate planning attorneys where the somebody has asked the presenter who here has their own plan in place.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And there are attorneys that don't raise their hand, right?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little bit like the cobblers.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: But still, it's it's an interesting area of law.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, you bringing up family law and us talking about that is interesting because most time most of the time when you go to an attorney, there's a problem you're facing.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: An immediate problem, right?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting a divorce, there's a custody issue, you get hit by a car, there's a bankruptcy, whatever it looks like.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's something going on, and you need that consultation with a professional to help you navigate something that you have to deal with, not the should list, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to deal with it because of what's going on.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Where estate planning is not that, and that's what makes the area um challenging in some ways for on the business side of can having people convince themselves that it's the time now to get the plan in place.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say this probably three more times before time as well.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's exactly the plan, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: The plan looks different depending on your age, your circumstance, your assets, all of those different things.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But really, every adult over 18 should at least have power of attorney documents in place.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: My niece and nephew got that as a birthday gift for me when they turned 18.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they loved that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, but they have an estate planning and and I was going to do that because it's it's so important.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and power of attorney documents, you know, anything can happen to us at any time, and we all fundamentally know that.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't sit with that all day, every day, because then we can't, you know, get through the days, and you don't want to.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but we all, if we take a minute and think about it, we either have an experience or we've heard about it, or you hear the news, of course.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it could happen to any of us.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is why it's so important at a very minimum to have the power of attorney documents in place.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically, those allow somebody to step into your shoes if you're incapacitated.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're still alive, but there's been an accident or a sudden illness or whatever it looks like, but somebody can step in and help manage your finances or your own medical decisions if you're not able to do so yourself.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So my 18, well, now now 20, 21.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: In place because when you turn 18, you're a legal adult here in the United States.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, yeah, it's one of those things that we talk about, it's the shoulds that you should have.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's not even this doesn't even fall in the category of like the nice to have.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is like the the the shoulds, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And they I feel like it's perfect because like we're talking, you know, we're talking to the majority of like Howard County moms and parents and things like that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: So like walk us through like when when should families you know do it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and what's the process like?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what can they expect?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like talk me through all of that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I will go back to really any adult should have something in place.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's hard when you're in your 20s.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have an estate plan in place when I was in my twenties, or even when I first had my daughter.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you know, maybe that's the first, you know, power of attorneys when you're 18, very honestly.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a parent of children who are turning adults, if there's something that happens to them while they're away at college, you need those legal documents.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're not able to get there right away or kind of prove you are, if you have to do things by phone.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So again, critical even at that young age, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think once we, you know, start to have children, that's a really important time to be thinking about it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think a real big uh reason many young families don't put the plan in place is the question of who would be the guardian if something you know catastrophic happens to both parents who would be in charge of the day-to-day of your children.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's a super hard question to sit with and answer and put actually not pen to paper, but you know, typing in the documents.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to do that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that is a big part of an estate plan when you have minor children, instead of naming that guardian.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then we all have assets right away, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have a bank account when you're younger, and so a will or trusts, and I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit the differences of that in a couple minutes, but ultimately will determine how those assets are distributed upon your passing.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully you don't need your estate plan for many, many decades.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's there in case you do.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I will say again, over and over again, the power of attorney documents.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Power of attorney, okay.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say that a bunch of times.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just because if you don't have that and something happens, then your family, even your spouse, is going to court to um obtain guardianship to be able to manage any asset that's just in your individual name.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a 401k or IRA, a bank account in just your name and not your spouse's or nobody else, and something happens to you, nobody else can talk to the bank or the financial institution without that legal document.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and so the process in terms of working with me, really, I sit down with people first and foremost and say, what brings us together?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are we hoping to accomplish?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have anything in place?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time when people are ready to start, um, you know, it's usually something has happened.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um they've either experienced a loss personally and kind of had the nightmare of probate experienced firsthand, or their neighbor experienced it and they're all talking about it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or um maybe people are getting closer to retirement, or there's some sort of you know, trigger sometimes health situations.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say you don't want to be in a crisis situation with health in particular, and then be like, oh, I need to do this because there's already so many other things to be dealing with in that particular time.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but really the first meeting is a conversation of what are your goals?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: What are you hoping to accomplish?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I usually ask um people always to tell me a little bit about their family.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are you married?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: You have kids, grandkids, are your kids married?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Any concerns about any family members, anybody receiving money right away?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, you know that makes sense.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then for at least the initial meeting, kind of big picture assets.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I will say, do you own a home?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do you own a second home?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have bank accounts, of course?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have IRAs, life insurance, 401ks, TSPs, a lot of federal um employees in this area.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what are those assets and what do they look like?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And really for that first meeting, I'm just trying to get a sense of the type of assets that somebody has and the value.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because a big part of estate planning for some people is trying to avoid taxes.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: But for many of us, those taxes aren't really consideration because of how high the exemptions are at the moment.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we still have to plan for other reasons, not just taxes, incapacity to make sure assets are distributed to the correct people when something happens.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, that's really that first initial conversation of let's talk about big picture assets.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then depending on the plan, we always um want to focus really um strongly on what assets do you have again, the specifics of it, and how are they currently titled, and then how are we going to make sure those assets work with the estate plan you ultimately decide to put into place?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so my recommendation is your estate planning attorney is different if we ultimately decide that a will should be the base of your estate plan or if we're talking about a trust.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Depending.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I see.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then we just talk.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: We just talk and I kind of go through the differences of a will and a trust.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's what usually people are thinking about.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if I'm preparing either of those documents for um clients, I'm always including power of attorney documents.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's always included.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we talk about who do you want in those different roles.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the biggest questions to answer is who do you want to step into your shoes if you're incapacitated on your passing?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those are called either successor trustees if you have a trust, or an um executor or personal representative in a will, or agents under a power of attorney, but that's a fundamental question of any estate plan.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who are those people that you that you trust to step into your shoes?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I know.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it feels like a yeah, I mean, obviously as a parent, yeah, it definitely feels like a lot to think about, which I know um it is probably daunting for so many families, you know what I mean?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I I kind of forget about the idea of the power of attorney for just like I said, any adult, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was just thinking of uh and and I know you hear stories all the time because this is your world, but it was like my in-laws neighbor down the street, like they have a, I don't know, I I want to say maybe like a 24-year-old son who I think lived in Florida or LA or something, but he got sick and didn't show up for work one day when his roommate um was like, why, you know, he usually leaves for work every day by this time or whatever, and went to check on him and he was like passed out like on the ground.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like I don't know how long he had been laying there, but like found him in like literally the nick of time.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: If any more minutes had passed, he would have been scared.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so, anyways, long story short, um, you know, they he was hospitalized for a long time.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was like one of those like weird things, it was just like a common cold that like just found its way into the wrong spot, you know, and um ended up very, very ill.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so now he's like he um I don't know if he's I don't think he's paralyzed, but like he's like having to like um he's like he's like in a wheelchair, he's like having to learn how to like like relearn how to like walk, eat and talk and all of this stuff.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the mom was so overwhelmed because she, you know, he's an adult son and they had to like do all of that because she was trying to take like medical control, obviously, because he couldn't I don't you know he was hospitalized, right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he like, you know, um I think was in a you know probably like a like a coma for a bit, you know, and so he clearly couldn't make decisions.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know that they had to go through that while she's also just trying to literally take care of him and do all of that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then like my cause they're only like two houses down from my in-laws, and you know, so yeah, like she had to move him back home.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um and like the all the neighbors saw them, like, you know, they do install like the you know, the wheelchair ramp and things like that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're right, like these things it it's it's horrible when it, you know, hap cause like you're they're you know, the situation's already thrust upon you and now um you're like, I'm trying to make these decisions and you can't legally, which is you know, so but I so I you know, yeah, we're like I think we're largely talked about a state plan, but I would not have even thought about the power of attorney part. 'Cause you there's I think like that probably largely I mean this is a twenty four year old, but like yeah, you think about your your adult kids that are in college.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: If something happens medically, you know what I mean?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you need to regard us of, you know, I mean something even happened to my brother, who was never like in a coma or whatever, but my parents like, you know, needed to come down and like see him and you know, there's so many restrictions.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um, you know, things happen to people more than we know.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's interesting.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've lost my dad, I've actually lost my sister to a catastrophic accident.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when you talk about that, so many more people, at least in my experience, like I also went through something similar.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it's not the exact, right, but just some of the things.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard thing to talk about.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, being sick, passing away, mortality, you know, it's really challenging.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's hard.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's so necessary.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I said it at the beginning where people, we all know something can happen.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I think everybody, if you think about that in a quiet moment, right understands that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't want to, because that's human nature.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's just what's gonna ultimately get you motivated to take action to get the plan in place.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So as you said, if something does happen to you, and hopefully it doesn't, because I think some people it never does.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you have the right plan in place.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one less thing that you have to be doing.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had people who have gotten, you know, very ill fast and they're reaching out to me and having to, you know, answer these questions and take time to review the documents, sign the documents, execute the documents, all those things where they could have been spending it in, I'm sure, other more better ways.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and just one less stressful thing off their plate, the family's plate, the parents' plate, the kids, all of those.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like life is stressful enough, and we're already we're always going to have those stressors, you know?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um well for like I I'm I don't know if this is again the general assumption or general thought for a lot of people, but you know, let's answer the question for a lot of families that are thinking, okay, like I know that I need this, but I'm like, then it's like, okay, well, how much is it gonna cost?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because like the idea of legal fees can feel overwhelming, especially to a lot of families in in the market that we're in.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people lost their jobs last year.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so how um how do you have that conversation with families?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um a lot of estate planning practitioners and myself included, so how we work at Courier Legacy Law is that we work on the estate planning side on a flat fee basis.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we have the consultation and you know exactly what it's gonna cost by the end of that meeting.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh there's no surprises.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Many, many attorneys when you're working um in other areas of like retainer-based in like any hourly.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like you call them and they charge you for a 20-minute phone call, and then you get a bill um in the mail, or they take it against your retainer.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Where again, on a flat fee basis, I know exactly what I'm going to charge you after the end of our conversation.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: It the the fees change depending on whether it's in a will or trust or power attorneys, of course.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know what it is, and so there's no surprises.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really important because the process, as we were starting to talk about, does take usually I'd probably say eight to twelve weeks on average.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's no additional fees for those meetings.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had some clients that need to meet with me every couple weeks because they're using me as a little bit of accountability to make those to get those answers to those difficult questions that they need to answer for themselves.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't care if it takes six meetings or two meetings at its quickest or ten meetings.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um but at the end of the day, I always want to make sure we're still moving forward, right?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're gaining momentum and we're making decisions.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we're getting one step closer to the end zone, if you will, since we're in football season.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, even that's relieving to hear because I mean, I I for instance, like, you know, I mean, I have a small business attorney and um that I don't, you know, I don't have any legal matters, it was just more of like when I was setting up my business and it's like, you know, and she's phenomenal and their team is great and stuff like that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, you know, it's like you get the estimate and then all of a sudden it wasn't like I was like calling a few times and um because it was also I was like, we're just filing like two things, like we're an LLC and like contracts, and um and all of a sudden I was like footed like an additional 2,000 bill on top of, and I was like, oh it can end up quickly, it can add up so and I get it, like it's a necessary thing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, for families that like you know um uh you know, we're we're talking about like a a will and power of attorney are they're necessary.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're not just the nice to have.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean technically getting an LLC is necessary to legally register your business, but not everybody needs to have that kind of thing.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I'm trying to make that distinction a little bit.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, and so just to be very transparent, you know, if I have people who come to me and they just need power of attorney documents, which usually you also need a will or trust, but that's you know as low as a thousand dollars total for that whole process to wills, you know, three to four if we're um unmarried versus spouses getting it done.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're doing a trust, at least a revocable living trust, which is what most people need at least to get started with if we're thinking that we are going to do a trust, um, ranges between like five and seven thousand.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I, you know, again, I think sometimes just having those numbers is knowing what those can be and knowing that it's for lack of better term, like sort of capped in a way.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Not but like, you know, I'm sure I don't I don't want to like over like I'm sure there's always you know instances or something like that, but um but knowing like okay, that's what it could, you know, could be, I feel like that becomes a little bit more digestible and helps, you know, helps people to understand that a little bit better.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: And plan for it, right?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And plan for it.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: And well, my other question was for timing, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: You said about eight to twelve weeks.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is that just on your side or does that actually factor in because I know that like the actual filing things and you know it um being, you know, um I'm not gonna use the word like legal.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not correct.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But legalized, I guess.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would include that time frame.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: The last step in the process is to to what I call a final um draft review and signing.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it we really call it like a signing ceremony, because at the end of the day, you've accomplished a big task to get that off your plate, and it really should be a celebration, right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Once you know you have the plan in place.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so that's certainly again eight to twelve week time frame, potentially even faster if someone came to me and they knew exactly what they wanted.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: But most people need those conversations.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I think is really important is that I don't send out a list of you need to answer these questions before you even see me because it's the conversation.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't even know kind of all of the different nuances of what to think about, and I don't know how to advise someone either until we have a conversation about what's important to you.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: What are your goals?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Your goal could be very different than mine, of course, versus somebody else's.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's what ultimately is the heart of the estate plan that you get the peace of mind that what your goal is is accomplished, and that you have the plan in place that can be implemented um the next day if it needed to be, and hopefully again, not for many, many years or decades.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then, okay, so like already I feel like I feel like we're sifting through so many of the details, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, and I I don't know.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I said this to you too.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm a big believer in like, I don't know what I don't know.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the more that we can like share education on what the process is like, it at least helps demystify that to, you know, make it feel a little bit more approachable for people, right?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, so we talked through like, you know, your process of um, you know, getting started, the conversation, the timeline, um, and even in even fees.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's like that transparency is so helpful um for individuals.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so then just because I'm curious, like um, and I think you've already alluded to this.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me more about the difference between like the will and the trust.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you said it sounds it sounds like it's asset based, or like maybe it depends on like how much how much, how many assets or whatever will drive kind of that?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, this is why this is why you're in the room, because I don't know what any of this means.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of people will say, well, I have to have a certain amount of wealth before a trust makes sense.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's like I'm like I think of trust and money.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's the yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, as most of us do, right?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um But what really matters to all of estate planning is titling of assets and how your assets are titled while you're alive determines how those assets are gonna be distributed upon your passing.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: And what do you mean by title?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think I just I think of just ownership.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: So who owns that particular asset.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, there's gonna be differences with what the process looks like if you have a will, and it's gonna look different if you have a trust.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's helpful, and what I usually do in almost every consultation is kind of go through the four, there's only four ways that you can hold title to an asset or hold ownership to an asset, and that helps um distinguish the difference between a will and a trust.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you said nerding out at the beginning of our time together.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably the most uh nerding I'm gonna do.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when people get a sense and understand this, it really helps them kind of get a understand the difference between a will and a trust at the heart of it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the first way you can hold title to an asset is in our individual name.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna use myself and is as an example.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: If I have a bank account, a checking account, and just my name, and I die tomorrow, that checking account has to go through probate, whether I have a will or not.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: So many people come to me and they think by having a will that they're going to avoid the court probate process.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that is not true.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: A will is important because it tells the court who you want to be the personal representative or the executor, where you want your assets to go, but it's not going to avoid the court process of probate.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we can talk about what probate looks like.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, now might be a good time.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so probate here in Maryland is a court process where the will, or if you don't have a will, but you uh somebody has to petition the court to say, okay, there are assets in this person's name and they passed away.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: We need the authority to be able to administer their state and ultimately distribute those assets to the beneficiaries, either the beneficiaries of the will.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or again, if you don't have a plan in place, the state of Maryland has one for you.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: They they have kind of a family tree and next of kin where it would go to your spouse, yes, your children, surviving grand uh parents, brothers and sisters, and so forth.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people sometimes think it just goes to the state of Maryland.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have to have really no extended family before it would go back to the state of Maryland.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless, you're still going through that court probate process.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so the will is filed along with the death certificate.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the court will order what's called letters of administration or they will issue that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a court order just saying, okay, this person, the personal representative, has the authority to administer the administer the estate.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they gather all of the assets, anything that was just in that person's name.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: They have to file within 90 days an inventory of all of those assets and the value of those assets at the time of death.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: So all of this is public, right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're in the court system.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: So your no nosy neighbor can go and pull your will, can go pull the value of all of your assets and what assets you have.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: God damn.
• 33:35
  unknown: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that gets has to get filed with uh the court.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, all of the public too.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's also much easier to challenge a will.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if somebody comes to me and their goal is to make it more difficult for someone, it's a state claim to be challenged.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say will's probably not gonna be your your best bet.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: It will not be your best bet, regardless of how many assets you have, if your goal is to kind of keep things private.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: But with the 90 days, the inventory gets filed, creditors get notice through um publishing in local newspapers, you have an opportunity to file claims against the estate.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the personal representative will pay the final debts, claims, taxes that are owed by the person who passed away.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to file that final tax return of any income from that person who passed, and then pay that liability if there is any.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's certainly a job to be that full.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then ultimately there's a final accounting, and that's when um again the assets all get um submitted to the court, the value of those assets, and then ultimately the judge will say, Okay, these are the people who are getting paid from whatever is left in the estate.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's filing and fees associated with it.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's a small amount that does go through to the state through probate fees.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes people think those are astronomical, they're not, but it's a couple thousand dollars that could be saved if you weren't going through probate.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: So again, a couple thousand feet.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, still a couple thousand dollars.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, for sure.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And most probate here in Maryland takes around 18 months from start to finish.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a long process.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask how long that is.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's much longer than what I've would have realized.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's public, long, there's some additional fees associated with it, and um, you know, certainly no privacy through that probate process.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a little bit of what probate looks like.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's if we have something in our individual name and we pass away, um, and whether we have a will or not, it's gonna go through probate before it gets distributed to our beneficiaries.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: The second way we can hold title to an asset is if something's in our joint names.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'll use myself as an example.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if I have a bank account, but now I've added my spouse to it.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if I die tomorrow, by operation of law, my husband will continue to own that asset.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing goes through court, the will doesn't control it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: If I have one, a trust doesn't control it, if it was in both of our names at the time of my death.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I often will say that joint ownership is a way to delay probate, but not avoid it altogether.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because if my husband doesn't then take steps to avoid it going through probate, again, if that's his goal, then when he dies, it would go through probate before it's distributed to our kids, for example.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But joint uh uh joint titling is uh how many of us that are married have assets titled.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, just important to understand what happens if one of those co-owners passes away.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: The third way you can hold title to an asset is if something's in the name of a trust.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there's lots of different types of trusts that exist in the world.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But for most people, we're thinking about that revocable living trust that I mentioned earlier.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is simply a way to retitle many of the assets that uh many of us own to ultimately avoid probate, first and foremost.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I always like to describe the trust as a box.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really good way to conceptualize if we do have a trust, what assets are in the box.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that there's some assets that we own that don't go into the box.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: As simple as that sounds.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So for many of us, the house is a big asset that if we have a trust, we're gonna want to retitle that home in the name of the trust, and then it's in the box, and we know that it's controlled by the trust.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, got it, got it, got it.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Some assets that we have, in uh specifically individual retirement accounts, life insurance, usually our main checking account doesn't go into the trust while we're alive.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's outside of the trust, but then we still want to know how it's gonna be distributed upon our death.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so usually we're working with the financial institutions through the help of myself and my team to add direct beneficiaries.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're called uh payable on death beneficiaries or transfer death beneficiaries.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that beneficiary is the actual trust.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So then it would funnel into the trust upon your passing and then go to your trust beneficiaries.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the magic to all of this in terms of estate planning is fun uh titling, titling of assets.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fourth and final way, just to kind of close that out, is if we have something in our individual name, but this time we've listed a beneficiary directly with the financial institution.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a great way to avoid probate, because as long as that beneficiary survives you, it will go directly to them.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: But we want to be careful if we have minor children, right?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: You never want to name minor children on account directly if they're under the age of 18.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to name any beneficiary that has special needs and is receiving any sort of government benefits that could disrupt their eligibility for SSI or Medicine.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of different considerations of why we may want to name direct beneficiaries and why we may not.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's again all the things we talk about.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only way you can ever hold title to an asset.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Those four ways.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, big differences with a will and a trust, again, is probate.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fundamentally the biggest difference.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um with a will, you're gonna have probate.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: With a trust, if it's funded, and that's a special kind of term that many of us use where your assets are strategically aligned with your estate plan.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's in the box if we have a trust, or it's outside of the box with beneficiary designations.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: But you want to avoid having anything in just your individual name without a beneficiary, because then even if you have a trust, if again it was in your name, it's gonna go through probate.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like, I mean, I obviously I think there's reasons and strategy for a a lot of it.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but um sounds like yeah, if it's if you have a trust or most of your assets like in a trust, then you can avoid probate and it's because that's like the long drawn-out process.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of people that say, well, I have little kids, I don't need anything, or maybe I just need a will.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And in some ways, that's when it's most important to have a trust.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is if your children, of course, are your beneficiaries and they're under 18, or if you still don't want somebody receive an inheritance directly at 18, then you want to control who's gonna manage that money.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then so that there's these subtrusts created for the benefit of each of your beneficiaries, and you can determine how that money's gonna be doled out at what ages, or if there's certain triggers, if that money can only be used for certain things like education or health, um, or um, and also who's gonna be in charge of that before they reach those certain ages.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so for a lot of young families, a trust makes sense, even though I think that's counterintuitive to what we think or what we hear, that you have to have a huge amount of assets.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when we have those minor children, you know, who's gonna be in charge again if something catastrophic happens, hopefully it doesn't.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're comfortable and that the the children aren't gonna get all the money at 18, for example.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, typical in plans to see like 21, 25, 30 or 25, 30, 35, and then they start to get direct access to a portion of that inheritance at those designated ages.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: But still somebody else is managing it for them so that if they need it again for college tuition.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or maintenance and support is kind of a term we use a lot in estate planning that could just be a down payment on a house or a wedding.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but your trustee is the person that you trust to kind of navigate what's reasonable, what you would have wanted if you were still still there.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, that makes so much sense.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like this has like helped like open my brain up and and world to all of this.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I feel like one th I I I bet you, or I'm sort of asking this, and I because I'm kind of assuming that like when you're having these conversations, I feel like what's uh kind of an an interesting maybe byproduct that would happen is like, you know, because I I even think of just like your bank accounts, you quickly realize like, oh, I thought that like we had co-ownership or that I was awesome.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, so I guess it also gives maybe the individual or the families the opportunity during this process to um uh either add themselves or retitle or or or things like that, um it's not just so that it's probably set up in the will or the estate, but so that their accounts and their assets are owned and operated the way that they would want them to, even like right now.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I of course feel like everyone should have an estate plan in place and I want to be the person to help people get the right plan, but I education is a huge part of this.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm always happy to um educate people and to know the different options.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, these are the four ways.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's no there's no other magical way to title assets.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so a main goal for all of us is to make sure there's nothing just in your individual name.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's additional considerations if we have families that have adult children.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't generally recommend adding adult children as a joint owner because that has other implications.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not as simple as just you know add some add someone and not kind of understand all of the nuances.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um just to kind of touch on that for a second.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I get that question a lot.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is that yes, adding an adult child will avoid probate if you pass away before them?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people will say, okay, I'm gonna add them to my bank account, A, so that they can manage it if I become incapacitated and to pay my bills.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I also just don't want that account to go through probate.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's several different kinds of unintended consequences of adding that adult child.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: One is that their creditors or their future divorce proceedings become attached to that account as well, even if it was that adult parents or the excuse me, the parents' account, and you were just adding them on as a convenience factor.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Legally, they're entitled to it.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's going to be subject to any of their creditors, predators, things like that.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, I have a lot of people who've done that um and they unintended um disinherit their other children.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if I add child A to that account and I pass away, child A gets that account.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: They have no legal obligation to share with child B.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you actually it's a gift because they're gifting it from themselves to their sibling, by example.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's additional legal considerations to think about.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: So unless we are completely comfortable with it going to that person, then that's not going to accomplish the goal and could be different than what the will or trust says.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest ones is just unintended tax consequences too.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: That you would never think of.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: You would never think of about just adding them to a deed or adding them to a bank account.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of an issue when we have appreciated assets like that house or stocks, where by adding someone, um, you're gifting them that asset, and they take what's called your original basis in that asset.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if I have a house that's worth$500,000 when it was um purchased or made, and then um I add my child, but now it's worth a million, and I pass away, my child's gonna take the basis of$500,000 versus having the benefit of what's called a step up and basis.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really nerding out at this point.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, wait, yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Step up and basis, which I think uh many people hear about, you hear about it in the news, is that it gets recalculated to the date of death value.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you leave that house to someone through a will or a trust or through your death, the child's basis becomes one million.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: But if you had gifted it to them by adding them to the deed prior to your death, their basis is five hundred thousand dollars.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if they go to sell it immediately, they're gonna pay five hundred thousand dollars of capital gains.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: Which is huge.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to avoid that.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: My God, right.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, I would have never yeah, especially like, you know, and yeah, what do you do when you don't know that information?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: You think, okay, like not great, like this person's passed away, but like, you know, okay, at least I can like get the assets from this house kind of thing.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: But oh my gosh.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow, but can you have a huge tax bill?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, it's it's not uncomplicated.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think estate planning too touches on so many other areas of law, which make it makes it difficult for attorneys who don't really focus on this.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we only do estate planning, estate administration, and elder law work where I think other attorneys who focus on other areas and then just say, Oh, I'm gonna do a quick will for my neighbor or my friend or my family member, they don't understand all that, nor should they, because they're not right, it's not their focus.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because taxes are implicated in estate planning, of course.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, creditor rights, you know, there's um real estate law, there's all kinds of different other areas of law that impact the estate.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: So interesting.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, this has been so helpful to turn out.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've learned so much.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, and I and I hope that any any mom or any parent that has any questions know that they can absolutely come to you.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so where where can they find you?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where can they reach out?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's what's the easiest way for people to kind of get started?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we have our website, um, curry legacylaw.com, where I'm always happy to do an introductory call um or even meeting if someone mentions Columbia Mom when they reach out, I'll do a full personal consultation in charge, which is about an hour.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um but on the website you can set up for or get signed up for about a 30-minute call.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: But again, happy to do it in person.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really again important with estate planning.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you just certainly give us a call or reach out by email.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do have a few members of my team already in the short amount of time that we've been around.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have an attorney who's working with me.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she really focuses more on the estate administration, also planning.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but she's got a little bit more um of experience helping families navigate when somebody has passed away.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's certainly a part of our practice.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I do have a paralegal who works um tirelessly next to us.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh my gosh, yes.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um is our witness and our notary when we get to the final stage of getting the plan in place.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we have um our office here in Columbia, right across from the mall off of Brokenland Parkway.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we do have an office in Annapolis as well, because that's where the other training is.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Any kind of any of those locations, can do Zoom meetings too.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: The only time I really need to meet with people, and sometimes that um really works well for busy working young families.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, right, right.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right when we all are still working and have full-time jobs and full-time jobs with kids.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, exactly.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: School name, all those things.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: But um can do Zooms.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: The only time I really need to see people in person is for the signing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, right.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times people will meet with me first and then we kind of those additional meetings to help move the process along.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can be by Zoom.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll make sure to um to share out like the the coupon, or I'm calling it a coupon, but you know, that offer for our followers.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be tremendous because at least people can kind of start to get some information.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're coming into the holiday season where it's gonna be easy to be kind of thinking about these things a lot more when we're seeing like family members and stuff.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but no, thank you so much for your time today.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that you that anyone listening learned a lot.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've learned a lot.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and um obviously, you know, I'll tag all of your links below for people to check out.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited to, well, hey, congratulations on your, you know, an almost, you know, what six months or so in business.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I know it really has.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um, well, congratulations and so wonderful to have you on today.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, Color Course.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mom Talk Maryland.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you loved it, leave a review, share it with a friend, or tag me at the.columbia mom on Instagram.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear what you think.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep showing up, keep supporting local, and keep being the incredible mom, woman, human that you are.