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It's Friday I'm Team Chappell Roan · Friday I'm in Bed

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Hello, welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
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Podcasts for midlife women living their best life while in
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bed by 10. This week on Friday, I'm in bed.
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We're starting with a backlash around Chapel Rd. after
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upsetting two young fans. She's set some boundaries, the
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press don't like it and we're asking whether this has turned
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into a bit of a pile on. Do celebrities actually owe us
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access, time or their emotional energy or is that something
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we've just come to expect? Then we're talking about pubs
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going child free. Is it anti child or just a case
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of adults wanting a quiet meal without someone else's toddler
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doing laps around the table? Where's the line between
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inclusion and choice? So grab a cuppa and let's get
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into it. Hi Kate, how are you this week?
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I'm good, thank you. I'm well rested after a week in
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Spain. How are you?
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I am not well rested. I went to well, I went to a ball
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at the weekend which is very exciting and I felt amazing.
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I felt super glamorous. I had like, oh, a gorgeous dress
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that I got from phase eight. It's like it was like £300 now I
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bought it for £100 in the sale. Why is that?
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I just have a celeb on that. I'm like such a bargain.
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I felt amazing. However, it was like on the
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night that the clocks changed, so not only I was I not in bed
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by 10, I also lost an hour overnight and it will take me
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about, I don't know, seven or eight years to catch up I
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reckon. Yes, I had double whammy because
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we came back from Spain on Saturday afternoon, obviously
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lost an hour when we landed and then lost an hour that night and
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it was like I've just lost two hours of my life.
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Not happy about this. Does that mean you have to go to
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Spain again in October so that you can get that hour back?
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To be honest with you, we are going away the week.
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The clocks change because that's, it changes at the end of
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October, doesn't it? And that's half term.
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Yeah, and that's our 20th anniversary.
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So we are going away that week. So maybe I should be looking at
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the time aspect rather than find it somewhere hot.
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But actually I won't worry about that.
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I'll just find somewhere nice to go to.
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Yeah, no, you might get it back again.
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You never know. And if you if you like, do you
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like? Keep getting younger if you keep
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like rolling that over. Yeah.
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Is that how that works? I don't know.
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I think I get tired, that is for sure.
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It was, I mean. It might take it take like, you
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know, 24 years to you to even like gain one day or something.
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Yeah, it feels like maths that someone else should work out for
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me, not me. Absolutely.
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We we went away with our teenagers and.
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I had a real moment of how much lighter I felt without them.
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Obviously when you go away with little kids, you know, it's hard
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work because you're ferrying, you know, you've got all this
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luggage and all, you know, all these these little people that
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you need to be responsible for. And but when they're teenagers,
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they kind of just get on with it.
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But what I didn't realize was how much time I spend going, are
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we all here? Who needs a toilet?
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And also, mom, can I have a Subway?
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Can I have a McDonald's? You know, just all this stuff.
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Not having it was absolutely wonderful.
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But now I'm back to them and their demands.
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That might tie in quite nicely to some of today's stuff,
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mightn't it? Yeah.
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It's quite a few parenting things this week so we better.
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Get into it, yeah. The first topic of the day is
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Chapel Rhone and this has been kind of bubbling under.
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This was bubbling under on my news feed just before I went on
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holiday and it kind of is still there.
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So I thought it would be great to talk about this.
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So Chapel Rhone gives some history.
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About two years ago when she was becoming like Uber famous or,
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you know, she was really on the way up, pushed back at the
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paparazzi on a red carpet and was kind of like, you need to
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just like back off a bit. You know, she basically set her
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boundaries and was a bit overwhelmed by them and also the
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kind of things they shout and, you know, that kind of culture
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that we have seen on red carpets forever and a day she pushed
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back. And that started a bit of a
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movement of particularly young celebrities doing the same.
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And like Millie Bobby Brown did the same.
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And she was like, no, don't tell me to smile, you know.
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So there was this will like setting boundaries backlash,
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backlash, probably the wrong word, but the setting boundaries
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thing. And then last year, Sabrina
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Carpenter on the red carpet commented on how quiet all the
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photographers were and said chapels really started a
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movement here. So this is kind of the history
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of what's Chapel Roan's been doing over the last couple of
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years. For anyone that doesn't know who
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Chapel Roan is, go and Google her.
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She's a huge female young American artist that's doing
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amazingly well and is super talented.
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So she's been sort of making moves in the world around bound,
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you know, setting her boundaries.
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And then what's happened in the last two weeks is there's been a
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couple of stories come out around her being disrespectful
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to fans. So the first story goes like
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this, that there is a footballer who I cannot, I don't know how
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to say his name. You knew I don't know an Arsenal
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footballer, else non Chelsea, I don't who plays for now anyway,
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He was. He saw Chapel eating her
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breakfast in a hotel and him and his daughter walked past and her
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security basically kind of batted them away, berated her is
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what is what they've said. And the child was very upset by
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this. Then the mayor or the governor
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of of Brazil, because this was all in Brazil, kind of waded in
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and was like, we're not going to invite her to our festival
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anymore. You know, she is bad.
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So then Jude Law's daughter, I think it might have been Jude
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Law's ex-wife, I'm not sure, said, well, actually a similar
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thing happened to my daughter with Chapel Roan.
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It's turned out that it was the security person that basically
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said don't, don't film, which is what was happening in a Jude Law
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case. And in the footballer case, he
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just was like, you know, getaway kind of thing.
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So there's been a lot of press about this and kind of like
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everybody is kind of kind of been piling on and sharing their
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anti Chapel roan stories. There's been stuff around her
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working for Mac. There's famously left wing
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liberal in her views. So you know that there's a lot
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of kind of anti Chapel roan rhetoric because she's an
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outspoken, successful lesbian woman, young woman who is woke
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in in inverted commas. There's a lot of anti that it's
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all been bubbling under and it's all just kind of exploded in the
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last week. But there's a couple of
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interesting things I want to add before I throw this out and is
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that we've now found out that 23% of the negative stuff been
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written around her in the last week or two has been by bots.
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So 4% of the entire content around her was created by bots,
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and 2423% of the negative stuff has been created by bots, which
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is making, you know, it's just adding to this feeling of like,
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this is all a bit premeditated. I remember when I saw it first,
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I was like, oh, this, this feels like a pylon.
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And then Jameela Jamil made a post around women are only
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allowed to be successful for two years and then, you know, then
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the pile on happens. Then we need to drag her down.
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So this is a isn't just about Chapel Rome.
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This is about boundary setting. This is about how we treat
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celebrities, how the media treats them, especially in light
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of how Brittany or Princess Diana or Amy Winehouse were
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treated. We love to them up and then drag
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them down. So yeah, Chapel Rd.
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Have you seen any of the content around Chapel?
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Have you seen any of the bot content in the last two weeks?
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I mean, I mean, Oh yeah. I mean, like who, who hasn't?
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It's kind of kind of been everywhere because first of all,
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I was a bit like, and I kind of looked up the story and then I
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was like, was it football or was it Jude Law?
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And then I realized that there were two, Oh my gosh, two of
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them. How dare we?
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I have to start by like, I'm going to make a confession.
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I don't understand. Bots, right, OK.
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I'm assuming, I mean, I know that obviously, I mean bots
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always used to be like, you know, they would just you would
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get bot traffic to your to your website, for instance.
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And it basically meant, you know, they were like crawlers
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that were visiting your website looking for content kind of
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thing, seeing what was on there. But when bots are actually like
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having conversations and like leaving comments on posts, kind
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of like, what are they for and why are they for?
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And like, who is this all supposed to be?
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Some kind of like big conspiracy?
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I know I've heard stuff like, you know, it's supposed to be
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like some big kind of like Russian content farm or
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something. Is it AI?
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What? What are the bots doing and why?
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Well. You tell me I am not an expert
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in bots, but let's just put it in this is my simplistic
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explanation of bots and I'm no way an expert so I could be
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totally wrong. Yes, there are people in charge,
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the big the big guns that want to change the narrative so it
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could be made make us more right wing.
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It could be win elections. And then these farms, a lot of
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them are in Russia. There must be others create this
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content, whether it's comments or content and it's pushed out
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and I don't know how they do that.
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I mean, who knows, must be AI, must be it's technology.
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But there are decision makers making decisions about thoughts
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about things. So, for example, the race riots
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that happened, I think it was two years ago in the UK off the
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back of the awful stabbing of the three young girls at the
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Taylor Swift look alike dancer concert party thing.
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They found out that a lot of the creating momentum to go out and
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protest and do bad things and, you know, wreck the place and
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all of that. The content and the groups and
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the the the information that was coming out was from Russian
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bots. So there was somebody making the
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content to get us to think in a certain way and go out and do
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it. And that's a Chapel, you know,
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if they want to bring her down, that's a great way of doing it.
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I think Taylor Swift has had. There's been lots of stuff
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there, yeah. I was, that's what I I had that,
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I had that on my notes. I just kind of figured that I
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don't really get it. Probably some other people don't
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either. So I, yeah, I kind of, it's just
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one of those things you go, I've always just assumed like I go,
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Oh yeah, bolts. And then when I was looking at
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this story, I kind of went and maybe I don't really get that.
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I think it's partly because rewind 30 years, the sun, the
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mirror, etcetera had so much power and they print a front
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page of Britney, let's just say having a meltdown or how she was
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chased or you know, that kind of stuff.
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And we all read it and we all believed it and we all had an
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opinion. But that's kind of gone now.
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So therefore, you know, we need to be to have this through
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Instagram posts, which is a bit worrying.
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Yeah. See, I found kind of like so
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this is in the same week. So this is one of the things
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that I was kind of I've been interested about is that Sheila
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Beef, because the contrast with how Sheila Beef was treated that
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same week. So who was that?
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The same week this Chapel Roan stuff came out, he was
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apparently filmed screaming expletives at women in a Roam
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Cafe, which was after a battery arrest and wandering a hotel in
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his underwear. And he got 7 articles written on
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him for doing that. Whereas the Chapel Roan thing
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got over 125 in 2 days. It wasn't even, it was her
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security guards type of thing. So it's kind of like they're
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different. And it wasn't even her.
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Yeah, she didn't even do anything.
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So yeah, I've. I've got kind of loads of things
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like that. And we were talking about yeah.
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Brittany Janet Jackson career destroyed where?
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Like for apparently revealing a nipple at the Super Bowl, I.
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Know and whereas just on holiday just.
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Like to strength. Yeah, on holiday.
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On holiday holiday, I listen to a podcast and we need to talk,
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which I love that podcast. And Blake Amy Winehouse's
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husband, ex-husband was interviewed.
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It's the first interview he's ever given.
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And he talked about the role of the press.
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He totally takes responsibility for the stuff he's done.
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But he he talked about the press and how they talked about her
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weight and her skin the whole time to the point that it leads
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her serious bulimia, you know, and and things like that.
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And so this is like, still you just still hearing the things we
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kind of thought were happening back then.
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Are they still happening now? And I, it's just a bit worrying.
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So these young people, these Gen.
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ZS are pushing back and saying, no, I might be a celebrity, but
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you can't talk to me that way and you can't treat me that way,
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and you can't be in my face. And I need you to stop.
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But there's a lot of people that are quite upset that these young
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women are doing that because, you know, that's women
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specifically. Yeah.
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How dare they? I think feel like there's again,
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there's always, there's so many like strands to this, to this
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story. Like strand 1 is the actual
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instant itself and how it relates to chaperone.
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Is she allowed to set those boundaries around herself?
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Did she even set these boundaries?
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Because you know, what's coming out about these stories
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afterwards is her saying, well, I had no idea there were any
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even there. The security guard was the one
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that like pushed them away and the security guard saying, yeah,
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yeah, yeah, I pushed them away. And then other people are coming
13:56
back in game. But with the security guard do
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that if he wasn't told to, that's like the incident.
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Let's let the man off. Yeah, it's like.
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Strand one, strand one, then like strand 2 is like whether
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this this is a female specific kind of thing because there's
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all sorts around that, isn't it? Because it was it was children
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that wanted were apparently wanted her attentions obviously
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as a child free. And she's she's lesbian.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So as a child free gay woman, she's obviously like top of the
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list to be like she's Eva. And she's talented.
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So the fact that it was the fact.
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Oh, I'm talented, yeah. And so the fact that it was, you
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know, children that were involved in these two alleged
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incidents are just another kind of stick to beat her with about
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how could. Somebody think of the children.
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Yeah, exactly. And then that's what was that?
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That was strand 2. There was a third strand as
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well. It was now what was Strand 2?
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Strand 2 was whether whether like the fact that it was
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children and her. And then strand 3 is like the
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the bots and the why are they pushing that narrative
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particularly? Why is it that more like a
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global strand, I guess? What are they trying?
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What are what are the evil bots trying to tell us about what
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they want us to think? Can I add a strand 4?
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Yeah. Back to our word of the year,
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parasocial. What is it with us that we, not
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us, not you and me, where we feel a celebrity owes us
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something? And is it linked to the fact
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that we see, you know, behind the scenes all the time on
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Insta? We see their stories.
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It's like we know them. So if they're eating breakfast,
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surely I can go up and say hi. Well, maybe I don't have to do
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that. Maybe I could just go, oh, look,
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that's chaperone over there. She looks nice.
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And then carry on eating my breakfast.
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Yeah. I mean, so OK.
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Because that's, that's the, I mean, celebrities have been
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being pested in public for years, right?
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That's that's nothing new. That's nothing new with the I
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think maybe like the parasocial thing is then more like because
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we feel like we know them now. Like so they've always been
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pestered in public, but do we feel more entitled to that
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pestering now because we feel like we know them better because
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we've seen the meeting their breakfast on Instagram.
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So then when we see the meeting, their breakfast in real life,
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we're like, hey Chapel, how are you?
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Maybe, but then we I chatted to my daughter about this before
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recording so she was like. Oh, if you saw.
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Simon Neal, who's the lead singer, Biffy Claro, you'd be
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over there. And I was like, oh, I don't know
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if I would. I'd want to, but I'd feel
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slightly icky going Oh. You're my.
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Hero and I have a photo with you.
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And then I said to her, if we were, she's obsessed with Ariana
16:41
Grande. And I said, you know, if we were
16:43
like the Wicked premiere and we're standing on the barrier
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and she comes over, I'm going to take a picture of her with you.
16:48
Absolutely. But if we just sort of see her
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eating breakfast in a hotel like Chapel Rd. will we?
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I know you'll want me to, but it will feel just a bit.
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Yeah. And it reminds me of, there's a
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Paul McCartney video that I saw where he was crossing the road
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and at the crossing, somebody came over and started videoing
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him. No, actually, they don't think
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they even asked him. They weren't in it.
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They were just videoing him. And he was like, no, can we not
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do this? You know, it's like, leave me
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alone. I'm literally just walking
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across the road, like, leave me alone.
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So But then, as you said, you know, celebs have been pestered
17:25
forever in a day, haven't they? Yeah, see now I was intrigued
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actually, because I'm I'm going back in my notes.
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Was she know one was they were videoing from further away, but
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they feel me. And I think security was like,
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OK, no, turn it off type of thing.
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OK, OK. It's just just because I found
17:43
that quite interesting because again, there's like, I mean, you
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see, people would be very tempted to kind of go, Oh my
17:48
God, look who's over there, like and get the picture like without
17:53
telling someone they're being photographed with it.
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Is that worse than going over and pester pestering someone?
17:58
Is it worse like photographing and recording people when they
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don't know that it's happening? I mean, so if you're, if you're
18:06
a celebrity, do you have to just assume that you're constantly on
18:09
video and being recorded the whole time you're in public?
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So like, obviously I am not a celebrity, but back in year old
18:16
vintage days, I can remember being at a vintage fair once.
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So I was all, you know, done up in my vintage finery, had my
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hair all nicely done and a nice frock on and missing stockings
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and, you know, all that kind of luck.
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And I was eating a bacon sandwich, my breakfast.
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I was having a bacon sandwich and I suddenly noticed someone
18:34
was taking a photograph of me eating my bacon sandwich.
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And I was like, is this what we do now?
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We just take photographs. And obviously they decided that
18:42
like vintage lady eats bacon sandwich would make a lovely
18:45
photograph for them. And you go.
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But I'm a human being just having my lunch.
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Or breakfast, whatever, you know, is that OK to just take
18:53
photographs of people just because they happen to be in a
18:55
public place doing like, you know, bacon sandwich eating?
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I think, you know, back to you saying that celebs have always
19:02
been pestered, but they we haven't always had smartphones,
19:06
have we? And videos and high quality
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videos and zoom in, which is amazing.
19:10
So you can take a video of somebody eating their bacon
19:12
sandwich from miles away, which you couldn't before.
19:16
So it actually, maybe it is more invasive than it used to be
19:21
because it used to just be the paparazzi, but now it's like all
19:24
of us. So I think that it's very easy.
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There's all this, oh, you'd be nothing without your fans and
19:29
you go, yes, but that's fine. But you know, they are consuming
19:32
a product that you put out. Does that give them some kind of
19:37
entitlement to your private life or like to interrupt you while
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you're having breakfast? Are you do you automatically
19:44
give up any right to essentially privacy if you happen to be in a
19:48
public or semi public space? Yeah.
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And people will probably say, well, she shouldn't be nervous
19:53
or so she has to eat her breakfast in her bedroom then
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because, you know, why can't she?
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If she's paid to be in the hotel, why can't she sit in the
20:01
hotel restaurant? But I think let's talk about the
20:04
the bringing successful women down because it was definitely
20:08
when I read it, I was like, hang on a minute.
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Because I've seen bits of press over the last.
20:13
Six months like anti her rhetoric, I've started to see it
20:18
coming through and it's and so when I saw the first like post
20:22
or news story about it, I was like and then, as I said in the
20:26
intro that Jamila Jamil said made this really interesting
20:30
post about how women are only allowed to be at top of their
20:32
game for two years. That's kind of it really.
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And then, you know, she needs to be taken down a peg or two.
20:39
And that definitely, to me, feels like what's happening.
20:43
What is that all about? Do we think that you're only
20:46
allowed to be successful for two years or, you know, a short
20:50
space of time? Or is it that we just don't
20:52
like, feel like too big? Don't like women to get too big
20:57
for their boots maybe? Like do you definitely see that
21:01
happening? And I think there's always been
21:03
that kind of slightly different attitude to successful women as
21:06
opposed to successful men, hasn't there?
21:08
You know, when you when you when you get a successful man, it's
21:11
because he's he's worked hard. Whereas a successful women is
21:14
like, you owe everything to your fans.
21:16
And you know, it's, it's not exclusive.
21:18
You know, sometimes men will get a bit of that pushback as well.
21:21
And sometimes women can get away with it for a bit longer.
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But then you do tend to get a bit of that, that divide with
21:27
the, shall we call it the current political climate?
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Yes, someone like Chapel Roan, who was very obviously on.
21:35
The the the. The woke side of the current
21:38
political climate is going to get more pushback from the the
21:46
box, I guess, and that kind of thing.
21:50
I would say that I definitely see, I mean, like 2 years feels
21:52
like a very firm cut off point, but like, I definitely see that
21:56
happening. You saw it happening with Amy,
21:58
Amy Winehouse, you mentioned earlier, saw it happening with
22:01
Britney Spears. Do you think it's only with
22:04
women in the public eye or do you do you think that that's the
22:07
thing that happens in in other professions?
22:09
Do you do you think that you know, I don't?
22:12
As women climb the corporate ladder, we see similar kind of.
22:15
I think there's definitely the rhetoric that you, you mentioned
22:18
it a minute ago, too big for her boots.
22:21
It's a great expression, isn't it?
22:22
Because have you ever heard too big for his boots?
22:27
I think I'm not sure of the answer of that.
22:30
But one thing that did just spring to my mind was I did see
22:33
a post, and I meant to look into this a bit more before we
22:37
started talking, but it was Billie Eilish, who has been very
22:39
vocal throughout her entire career about politics, her
22:44
political viewpoint, and will use her platform if she wins an
22:47
award, for example, you know, to say, and I did see, I don't know
22:52
if it was either her brother saying it or her saying it is
22:55
that the they are trying to bring me down.
22:57
There are people out there that are really actively trying to
23:00
ruin my career. I need to look into that.
23:03
Sorry, I haven't any more than that, but it's like there are,
23:05
right? So she's had longer than two
23:07
years, let's face it, Billie Eilish.
23:08
But she's a strong, successful, talented alternative as well
23:14
woman who will not shy away from saying what she thinks.
23:18
And I think there's, I don't know if this has always been the
23:21
case, but there's definitely a, it's linked actually to the
23:24
whole manosphere thing we talked about a couple of weeks ago, you
23:27
know, about 1. And, and when we talked about
23:30
Pilates Princess as well, you know, we don't want, we don't
23:33
want too much drama, which means we don't want a woman with
23:36
opinion, which means we don't want a woman that's political,
23:40
which means I don't want a woman that's left wing.
23:42
Like it carries on and on and on and on and on.
23:44
So it's like, you know, there is a feeling, particularly right
23:47
now that that we, we are not wanted.
23:50
And so I think the fact that it's Chapel with her stance on
23:54
the world and her political leanings and.
23:57
Her sexuality and her success, you know, it's all really,
24:01
really intrinsically linked. I think personally, it's very
24:03
difficult to to know how this could impact women who weren't
24:07
in the public eye because obviously if we know about it,
24:10
by by definition, they are in the public eye, right.
24:13
So, you know, for instance, you could say, you know, women in
24:16
politics, for instance, they were getting a lot of Hannah the
24:19
Green, the new Green MP. Yeah, Hannah, I forget her
24:23
surname. She's like Hannah the plumber on
24:25
Instagram, but she's getting a lot of pushback and they start
24:28
to push back on things like, oh God, she dresses like a toddler.
24:31
That's not appropriate and things like that.
24:33
So again, they're they're picking on her for particularly
24:36
women things. And there was the the politician
24:38
years ago with the the leopard print shoes and things like
24:41
that. You you get.
24:42
That kind of thing. But then obviously they are in
24:44
the public eye also. I've got, I wish I'd thought of
24:47
this before I'd have looked into it.
24:48
Like, do women in like, the boardroom get it well?
24:53
It starts young. I'm going to talk I'll talk you
24:55
through a story that they my daughter was in year 4, so she
25:01
087 anyway, her and this boy had become like the leaders, you
25:08
know, like the top dogs. Let's just call them and they
25:14
were beginning to rule roost in the playground.
25:16
I can't remember. Why or whatever?
25:18
But, you know, they'd obviously rose to the top of some kind of
25:21
hierarchy. Anyway, I got called in.
25:24
The mother of the boy didn't get called in.
25:26
And repeatedly the teacher said to me they were concerned that
25:32
she was becoming too bossy. And I repeatedly, every time he
25:36
said bossy, I said, you mean confident.
25:39
And then he'd and he'd go and then carry on talking and then
25:42
he'd say bossy again and I would go.
25:44
You mean confident? And I remember I said it about
25:47
five times. And my husband sat back and was
25:49
like, like watching this unfold, but not in.
25:52
I'm not saying he wasn't supporting me.
25:53
He was in America. You ain't going to win this,
25:56
mate. You ain't going to win this.
25:59
And I remember saying, so my daughter used to lack confidence
26:03
and wouldn't say Boo to a goose and didn't have a lot of friends
26:06
and was a bit bullied. And now she's like ruling the
26:11
roost or whatever. She's got her little gang.
26:14
I actually he was upset that somebody had said the word gang.
26:17
And I was like, yeah, but I don't think they're talking
26:18
about, you know, the bloods and the whatever, you know, like,
26:21
we're literally we're talking about they're 7-8 year olds.
26:25
Do you know what I mean? And he was really upset about
26:27
the word gang. And I was really upset about the
26:29
word bossy. And I just kept saying, have
26:32
you? And what about the boy's
26:33
parents? Are they being brought in?
26:36
Is he bossy? And they were like, oh, no, no,
26:38
no. And I think so I think back to
26:39
this. Too big for your boots.
26:41
My daughter was told she was too big for her boots at 7 years
26:44
old. And the boy who was also too big
26:46
for his boots wasn't brought in. And I think you hear about words
26:50
like bossy and you hear about, well, we know that women are
26:54
treated, girls are treated differently.
26:55
But I sat through it. So I think girls are told to not
27:00
be too much because they're told that in primary school.
27:05
Yeah, that is interesting because obviously we, we do
27:08
know, for instance, that there is actually there are actually
27:11
studies, you know, on kind of corporate world where they're
27:14
they're women are told that they the perception is that women
27:18
talk more than men when actually they're speaking less than men.
27:21
And that you know, that people use the words kind of whereas
27:24
men are assertive, women are bossy, a kind of that, that kind
27:27
of thing. And that the women are punished
27:29
in corporate land for allegedly getting kind of too big to their
27:33
boots. So we do, we do know that.
27:35
So I guess that that that that is there.
27:37
I guess it's a slightly different thing.
27:38
Once you've already got the got the job, they don't like give
27:41
you 2 years and then go, well, we're going to fire you because
27:43
you're too bossy. But maybe they never get there
27:45
in the 1st place if they're too, I don't know.
27:47
I think people fear strong women.
27:51
And I also think it's so ingrained at such a young age
27:55
that you mustn't be. I remember saying to the
27:58
teacher, I would rather have a confident girl than the girl we
28:03
had a year ago that wouldn't speak.
28:05
Like, we should be celebrating this.
28:07
Instead, I've been hauled in literally, you know, we need a
28:10
meeting to talk about Kitty Beavis being bossy.
28:14
And it's like, what are we talking about?
28:16
You go. What, What is she she bossing?
28:20
Yeah. And what, what has she done with
28:23
this power that's been so? Negative.
28:26
I don't know. She probably decided they were
28:27
playing rounders today and then everyone played rounders.
28:30
I mean, you know, like we would like obviously we don't teach
28:35
any young person to be rude and nasty or aggressive or whatever.
28:39
But you know, it starts young, doesn't it?
28:41
And it's the it's the language piece.
28:43
And I think one thing, as I've done as a parent is talk about
28:48
to my children setting boundaries to young people.
28:52
Jen says a really into the word boundary.
28:55
And I think it's amazing and I'm all here for it because
28:58
actually, no, you don't talk to me like that.
29:01
You don't treat me like that. And I think I know I was brought
29:04
up in a time when I no, we had to put up with it.
29:08
We had to put up with sexist jokes and being groped in the
29:11
workplace or in the, you know, or wolf whistled or we have, we
29:17
just were told to put up with it and young people are going and
29:21
then and I think I'm really proud of them.
29:25
I'm like, well done. It's a good.
29:27
Thing I do think that not only we've said before about that
29:30
kind of critical thinking so when you see a story like this
29:33
you know use your critical thinking and think you know
29:36
would this be a story I would say if it was a man's security
29:41
guard who'd asked them to stop filming or whatever but also I
29:46
think it's it is becoming increasingly important to wonder
29:49
if like these stories are real I mean obviously we know to look
29:52
for AI and things like that but is it coming increasingly
29:55
important to think about who is benefiting from this story and
29:59
is it even true the box thing is becoming such such a massive
30:04
thing that we need to consider whether this is even a story or
30:08
if it's been literally been made-up by non existent pieces
30:12
of Internet code and that. Is really scary, isn't it?
30:16
It is. OK, So the topic I want to talk
30:25
about now does kind of tie in a little bit to the the Chapel Rd.
30:30
chat because it's about public spaces and children in public
30:35
spaces. So there's a kind of loose,
30:37
loose link there. So this comes from a article in
30:41
Stylist magazine website Whatever Stylist about the
30:46
Kenton in Hackney did my research, very specifically
30:50
banning children from the pub. So the article was a woman
30:56
saying that she's not surprised that this is, but this pub is
30:58
local to her. She's not surprised that it has
31:01
banned children because she once took her child in there on a
31:05
rainy Saturday afternoon and they were constantly telling her
31:09
that she needed to keep her children under control.
31:11
And that's basically she was made to feel unwelcome in the
31:15
pub and that how do children learn to behave if they're never
31:19
allowed to go anywhere? And how can a pub can claim to
31:22
be community LED if part of the community is banned from it?
31:26
There was also discussion about whether this was effectively
31:30
banning mothers from the pub because women are primarily
31:33
responsible still for childcare, and therefore whether this was
31:38
essentially a feminist issue. Whether this was unfairly
31:41
affecting women to be banned from the pubs now.
31:43
Pub previously had a 5:00 PM curfew.
31:46
The pub does not sell food and now the pub has banned children
31:50
under 18 completely. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, under
31:57
under 18. Under 18, I think.
31:58
But but then I I think I'll get on to that in a bit.
32:01
Don't worry. That is interesting.
32:02
But yeah, under under 18. So it's it's a drinks only, no
32:06
food shows football that's had the same owner for 17 years.
32:11
That owner is a father. There you go.
32:14
And there are other pubs in the area that have followed suit.
32:17
So the William the force has apparently in Leighton has
32:21
apparently implemented a 7:00 PM curfew and another one is banned
32:24
under 10s out right. And he's saying that after all
32:27
this press coverage of his ban, he's received a lot of other
32:31
operators that have contacted him for advice.
32:34
There were real safety incidents that have incident incidences
32:39
that have informed this decision.
32:41
Apparently a three-year old fell to reseller Hatch while the
32:43
parents were elsewhere. Yeah.
32:45
And a five year old collided with staff carrying drinks and
32:48
therefore there was then ended up with broken glass anywhere.
32:51
They also had problem with kids approaching and poking dogs,
32:54
which was then causing dogs to obviously get annoyed with with
32:59
the kids. And he said that that entitled
33:01
parents have a lack of understanding when they're in a
33:03
public space, that they have to look after their children and
33:06
they need to behave appropriately.
33:08
And that staff who had approached periods when there
33:10
were concerns were met with confrontation.
33:12
Well, what if we done something wrong?
33:13
That's my that's my confrontation voice, just so you
33:16
know. So yeah.
33:17
So there are obviously real can safety concerns there.
33:20
The landlord is a dad himself. He has a 7 year old, says he
33:23
takes him to pub. But when he does, he takes board
33:25
games, crayons. And he knows they basically have
33:27
a one hour window where the child will will be under control
33:32
before they know that it's time to time to take them home.
33:35
And he also says that the response to the ban has been
33:40
kind of 98% positive. I mean, I don't know if that was
33:43
a precise 98 percent or just mostly positive, but they
33:46
surveyed an. Open yes and 9898 people were
33:52
happy yes. So he also said that they've
33:55
been getting regulars who had been staying away at the
33:57
weekends because of noise from children that have started
34:00
coming back now, which is interesting.
34:02
So I kind of have it, I kind of have a few things that I want to
34:06
talk about on this. So I thought this was
34:10
interesting because I do not have children.
34:13
You do have children. I have dogs that I want to take
34:16
to pubs with me, one of which is doing some really loud snoring
34:19
right now behind me. So my view on this has always
34:21
been, and I have, and I have been in this situation before,
34:25
is that pubs aren't spaces for children, especially not if this
34:30
isn't a pub that serves food or has particularly advertised
34:34
itself as child friendly. It's not that, you know, I never
34:37
went to pubs when I was a child like I'd been in them, but they
34:40
generally tended to be ones that were, you know, promoted as
34:43
child friendly and they were, you know, full of kids running
34:46
around doing whatever it is that that kids do.
34:48
I can understand that part of the argument that was in the
34:51
Stylist article is that this would disproportionately impact
34:54
women because they are often primary caretakers, and that she
34:57
says mothers move through the world in a relative low level
34:59
apology and are pushed into ever smaller and smaller spaces.
35:03
But one of the things I did note from the article is that she
35:06
said that after they'd received two or three reminders that they
35:10
needed to keep their children under control, they realized
35:13
they weren't welcome, left their drinks, and then went home in
35:16
the rain. And I thought, well, if you've
35:18
had to have two or three reminders that you need to keep
35:21
your children under control, were they not under control?
35:23
What were they doing? I have so much to.
35:25
Say, and she there seems to be this suggestion that children,
35:28
how awfully is that children would behave like children and
35:31
not be SAT still like perfect little soldiers.
35:33
And again, my argument would be that if they are in what is
35:37
essentially an adult space. Maybe they should be SAT
35:40
perfectly still like little soldiers, because that's not
35:44
their space. I can see you getting all
35:46
twitchy, Kate. What do you tell me?
35:48
Tell me. You go.
35:49
I have so much to say. So sorry in advance.
35:52
First of all, your comment about if we don't, if we don't bring
35:57
our children into public space, when will they learn how to
36:01
behave in public spaces? Or it's a bit like taking your
36:03
dog. To be fair, my dog barks to the
36:06
point where we don't take him anywhere.
36:07
But if we don't take him anywhere, he's never going to
36:09
get used to not barking. So it's one of those chicken and
36:12
egg things. So I kind of get that.
36:14
I do get that it's often quite female.
36:17
I was going to say lead. It's not the right word, but you
36:19
know, effects women more because we're generally the primary
36:22
carer. But I do believe that if you're
36:26
in an environment where your child can't on behave in that
36:30
environment, that's right for that environment, then you
36:33
shouldn't be in that environment.
36:34
So I mean, I've got so much to say.
36:36
I mean, my my son, when he was a baby, we started taking him out.
36:40
He went out with us everywhere. He went to the pub, he went to
36:43
restaurants and stuff as a baby and he sat and he, you know,
36:46
played with his instrument. Little not his instrument like
36:49
is whatever he had his rattle or whatever.
36:50
And then when he got to a certain age when he would have
36:54
just run ragged around the place, we might not go to that
36:58
restaurant because nobody wants a child running around a
37:03
restaurant when you're eating. So I'm kind of conflicted.
37:07
I get the bit that, you know, you do need to be able to take
37:09
your children out. But I, I fundamentally really
37:13
believe that a pub or somewhere like that where people are going
37:17
to have a quiet pint or to make their friends, don't need 25
37:22
kids running around when they could be in the park doing that.
37:26
So, yeah, I'm kind of like, I've got lots to say, but I almost
37:29
can't spit it out. Think.
37:31
I think I'm in agreement with so much of what you said.
37:33
Even as a parent, You know, for example, I used to belong to a
37:37
gym, and it was an expensive gym.
37:41
And I joined that gym because I wanted to go and I thought I
37:44
could work there as well. And I could become like my
37:47
second office. So I could go to a class or go
37:49
for a swim and then I could work on my laptop.
37:51
And there was so many kids there because there was this big crash
37:57
area, but not a crash as in children running everywhere that
38:01
I was like, I can't, I can't work here.
38:03
I don't, this isn't pleasurable for me even as a parent.
38:06
Like I didn't want to be there. I don't want to be surrounded by
38:09
loads and loads of children all the time.
38:11
So as a parent, I don't necessarily want that either.
38:15
But I think I need a specific question because I'm waffling
38:17
because I'm just like about the whole.
38:21
Thing one of the things I felt was that you see this a lot
38:24
isn't it that this kind of have it all culture and again it's
38:28
maybe something that's specifically quite often aimed
38:31
at women. Can women have it all a family,
38:33
a family and a social life and a career And and again, never gets
38:37
asked to men. So yeah, I absolutely get how
38:39
things like that are gendered. But when she says we're banning
38:43
people from more and more spaces, maybe we didn't need to
38:45
ban children from more and more spaces because there was a kind
38:50
of a self self banned. What am I saying?
38:52
Like a self restriction maybe where, you know, we didn't take
38:56
children to places where we kind of knew that they weren't going
38:59
to be welcome. And people say, well, I'm going
39:01
to have children, but I'm not going to let it change my life.
39:03
And but maybe it should change your life.
39:05
And not just women. I'm going to put that out there.
39:08
We we know that it does disproportionately affect women
39:11
and they're they're the ones that whose lives have to change.
39:14
But I am going to decide for this conversation topic that as
39:18
a given, it shouldn't must affect women's lives if they're
39:21
fat, if they choose to have children.
39:23
But but baby all the people involved in having children,
39:27
maybe it should change their life.
39:29
Now I know that you had children kind of slightly later on in
39:31
life. So how do you feel about that?
39:34
Should it change your life? I don't understand.
39:36
Like why are you in the pub all afternoon on a Saturday?
39:40
I don't understand. And maybe now this is an age
39:42
thing. Maybe this is a lifestyle thing.
39:44
Like I wouldn't take my kids to the pub all afternoon on a
39:48
Saturday because. Like there's other things, of
39:50
course they're going to run around and be feral because
39:54
they're bored. They're in a pub.
39:56
There is nothing to stimulate them.
39:59
All there is is stuff to over stimulate them in a way.
40:01
Because there's busy drinks and there's music playing and
40:05
there's lights on the fruit machine or whatever.
40:08
And they're going to run around and it's going to pee people off
40:12
and I'm going to be stressed because I'm going to be going,
40:15
come on, come on, sit down, sit down.
40:17
And you said about the dad or the owner?
40:19
Like, you take crayons and stuff.
40:21
Absolutely. Like if we went out for a pizza,
40:24
I mean, some restaurants give you like a children's pack or
40:27
whatever. But if not, you will take our
40:29
crayons, we'll take a book. I mean, let's face it, most
40:32
people these days have their kids on a tablet, which I didn't
40:35
have. We didn't have that when they
40:37
were younger, but you know, they need to to be stimulated and
40:41
sitting in a pub for a couple of drinks.
40:44
I don't know how long does a couple of drinks take?
40:45
Two hours. They're not, they're going to be
40:47
bored and they are going to run around.
40:50
So I as a parent would go, they are going to run around, they
40:53
are going to be bored. I've either got to give them
40:55
something to not be bored or we need to go somewhere else.
40:59
And I personally change your. Life like if before children
41:03
your Saturday afternoons were sat in the pub all afternoon,
41:06
it's going to have to change your life like if you have.
41:09
Children, you're going to have to decide there's something
41:11
different that you do now. Yes.
41:12
Something that children may enjoy.
41:14
Yeah. And I think I see that now.
41:18
Sounds so judgy, but I do. I mean, I see our local pub.
41:21
You go in there sometimes and there's families, couples,
41:24
whoever. I've been there all afternoon
41:27
and they and their kids are running around and they're
41:30
making a racket. And of course, kids run around.
41:32
Of course kids make a racket. Like that's what they do.
41:35
They're kids and we shouldn't expect kids to always sit
41:38
perfectly still and we don't want them to be on a phone like
41:42
we don't want that. We know that.
41:44
So why you know you can't? It's not the kids fault here and
41:48
it's not the pup's fault. Is it Like if they if a kid is
41:52
falling down a seller thing in me jiggy down like what the
41:57
Yeah, I mean. That's The thing is I think that
41:59
there's, there are obviously like real safety risks there
42:02
then that, you know, we're taking into account.
42:04
And if, if those incidents have happened and a couple of times
42:07
and that's, you know, that's the, the pub's insurance, it
42:09
might be that your child would be perfectly well behaved in the
42:13
pub. But unfortunately, evidently
42:15
there are incidences where that is not happening.
42:17
And therefore they've, they've implemented things to, to make
42:21
sure that doesn't happen in, in future.
42:23
You can't do everything on an individual basis because.
42:25
Yeah, my view is it's not the children's fault here because I
42:30
am bored sitting in AI don't, especially because I don't drink
42:32
alcohol sitting in a pub for hours on end.
42:34
A four year old is going to be I'm in the walls.
42:37
Literally they. Literally are, yeah.
42:40
And I. Definitely don't think it's the
42:42
children's fault. I mean, I guess I don't
42:45
necessarily think it's individual parents fault either.
42:51
I think it's this kind of expectation that you should be
42:54
able to take children everywhere.
42:55
I mean, I kind of see that I have dogs.
42:58
I want to take my dogs everywhere and they, they, they,
43:02
they don't make a noise and they don't run around like they do
43:06
leave bits of hair everywhere. And one of them is very elderly
43:08
and may occasionally do things in place this way.
43:13
And we do bear that in mind, you know, regardless of that, that's
43:16
a new incident. But I am often quite surprised
43:19
when pubs don't like dogs in because I think really, you
43:22
know, but if they've had issues with people who take dogs in in
43:27
the past, fair enough, That's their decision.
43:28
I just don't go there with my dogs if they don't let dogs in.
43:31
Like if I need to go there, I don't take dogs.
43:34
The only time we, we have had an issue once was when there was a
43:37
meeting we were supposed to be going to in a pub and we had the
43:39
dogs with us after work and we went in and they were like, oh,
43:42
we don't let dogs in. And we were like, this is the
43:45
ropiest pub in the world, what do you think we're going to do?
43:48
But yeah, that aside, you know, I am surprised, but I just don't
43:53
take my dogs there. I don't kick off like there's
43:55
this big issue that I should be allowed to take my dogs
43:59
everywhere because that's just obviously this place does not
44:01
want me and my tiny little pugs custom though the dogs, you
44:05
know, will keep us there for a long time drinking.
44:07
So I think they're on the wrong. Side but this this also happens
44:10
at like weddings. So you know, people more and
44:14
more people are choosing to have child free weddings and there
44:17
are people that are up in arms about about that.
44:21
I know somebody mentioning no names that was invited to a
44:25
wedding and it was a child free wedding and she had a total like
44:29
fit about it. And how dare they ask for no
44:33
children and how outrageous that was.
44:35
And I remember thinking, well, it's kind of their choice, isn't
44:38
it? And they weren't anti children.
44:40
They didn't like dislike children.
44:42
They just didn't want loads of kids running around at their
44:45
wedding. And I feel like, are we a little
44:47
bit? You're like, yeah, but it's a
44:52
bit like, I've have a child and it has to go everywhere.
44:55
Like it has to, as in it's my right.
44:58
But it's like, well, maybe people can choose not to what I
45:02
am. Surprised about is that we did
45:04
ask for no children at our wedding and why?
45:06
Yeah, we did ask for no children at our wedding just because that
45:09
wasn't the kind of vibe we were going for.
45:11
I've been to plenty of family weddings with kids running
45:14
around and dancing and stuff like that.
45:15
But one I see, I think you quite often get a very gendered
45:18
response to that kind of thing as well, or a very kind of
45:21
outdated response where people are like.
45:23
Oh, but you're getting married. And therefore the next step in
45:26
your life is to definitely have children.
45:27
How can you not want children at your wedding?
45:29
So yes, you, you, you, you, you definitely get that that kind of
45:34
response. See, I, I do.
45:36
I don't think that there is a diminishing of spaces that are
45:40
friendly to children, though. Do do you think that?
45:43
No, no. Well, that was boring then.
45:47
The end of the no restaurants, for example, you know, are
45:50
getting much better at creating better children's menus and
45:54
children's entertainment. You know what I meant by those
45:56
like coloring packs and things, but it's also realizing that
46:00
your future customers as well. So I was really surprised.
46:05
I didn't realize that this pub had said no under eighteens and
46:10
I was obviously very shocked because of course I can, I can
46:12
understand, you know, a 5 year old running around, but a 16
46:16
year old, 17 year old, a they're your future customers,
46:20
especially when you're it's a local pub.
46:22
But also, but also, as you know, a 16 year old can sit and not
46:28
run around. In fact, most 16 year olds don't
46:30
move. They just sit on their phones.
46:32
And I'm saying again, I sound very judgy, but I'm a parent of
46:35
a 16 and an 18 year old. I should be able to take them to
46:39
the pub. My my son as was 18 last week
46:42
and we went to the pub and my 16 year old, actually 15, nearly 16
46:46
year old came with us. I mean, she wasn't running
46:48
around. Ferrell, she was able to sit and
46:51
have AJ2O. You know, I was intrigued by the
46:54
full ban on underage because I'm guessing that that's an easy
46:59
thing. This is an over 18 pub only, you
47:01
know, this is this is what we're saying is that you could only
47:04
come into this pub if you're allowed in unattended because
47:07
because in theory, you can't go in a pub without over 16
47:11
parents, I think. Yeah.
47:13
So it's 1617, is it? Are you allowed in over 16 but
47:16
not allowed to drink? That's what.
47:17
I can't remember what the exact, but you're allowed.
47:19
To drink if you eat food with your parents, that's another
47:23
weird role rule we have, which is.
47:25
That place, that place doesn't sell.
47:27
No, I know. But yeah.
47:28
To be fair, to be fair, I think that's a law that is most in
47:32
most places not really like enforced, is it?
47:36
You know, if you were in a you were in a restaurant and they
47:38
ordered you and you ordered your 14 year old a glass of wine with
47:41
their meal. I don't, I suspect that most
47:44
places wouldn't serve them, but kind of that.
47:46
But yeah, I was intrigued by the 18.
47:48
I wonder if they felt that that was that was easier because
47:51
they're not going to ID people when they come in, presumably,
47:54
unless they look like they they need ID ING or trying to buy
47:57
alcohol. Presumably they're not, you
47:59
know, on a Saturday afternoon, presumably they're not ID ING
48:02
every single person on the door. So I'm wondering if like in
48:05
reality, a 16 or 17 year old would probably be all right if
48:09
you took them in and they weren't kind of causing any
48:11
trouble or trouble trying to start fights after three pints.
48:14
Like, you know, I like all, all pubs obviously reserve their
48:19
right to allow whoever they want onto the premises.
48:22
So they can, they can just go right.
48:23
No redheads in here. Be fair.
48:25
I'm not sure how that one would go down in the press.
48:27
But, you know, in theory, as long as they're not breaching
48:30
any discrimination laws, they reserve the right to allow
48:34
anyone in that they like. So they could set their age
48:37
limit at 21. Some places do 25, you know,
48:41
that kind of thing. So why they would do that, I
48:43
don't know. But I wonder if there's
48:44
something though as well about a pub being a free.
48:47
So obviously childcare, not childcare, child entertainment
48:52
spaces, let's just call them that.
48:54
And what the official name is Costa Fortune.
48:57
So I remember like we've got a farm near us and I think it was
49:01
like 5 lbs for each child to go in for the day or whatever,
49:05
which is fine. But the adults had to pay 10, 10
49:08
lbs. And I was like, I don't even
49:10
want to be here. And it was like a ball pit
49:12
thing. They were charging the parents
49:14
to be in there as well. And I remember like the whole
49:17
day costing like £50. Once you bought snacks, it was
49:21
the place you'd go because the kids, you know, need to get out
49:24
and it's raining. You know, you said about, you
49:26
said about rain, you know, to walk home in the rain like that
49:29
kind of, but it's like £50 later.
49:31
So I think maybe part of the issue is, is if you can't go to
49:36
a park because of the weather or you don't have a park because
49:39
let's face it, not everybody lives in a safe place or a green
49:42
place. Everywhere you do go with
49:45
children costs quite a bit of money.
49:48
But the pub or a cafe, let's just say those kind of, you
49:51
know, they're free to go and you can, you know, they can just
49:55
have orange squash for goodness sake.
49:57
So it's actually quite a cheap way of taking your children out
50:00
the house. I wonder if there's an argument
50:02
there about. I wonder if that's why they're
50:04
also a bit, you know, want to be.
50:07
Yeah, I see that. But again, again, it's
50:10
appropriateness isn't there because again, I would argue
50:13
that we are not in a situation where there is this like lack of
50:19
child friendly spaces or spaces just were spaces where children
50:24
are allowed say. So there are other options.
50:28
You mentioned a cafe. You may find that in your local
50:32
area there are a range of cafes ranging from the garden center
50:36
to a kind of posh cafe that does avocado and poached eggs on
50:41
toast. I don't know whatever is
50:43
definitely happening like millennials wasting all their
50:46
money on avocados, but there'll be a range of different kinds of
50:49
cafes and there are also a range of different kind of pubs.
50:52
So if it's the pub particularly that you want to go to, that you
50:55
fancy a pint and you want to take your children with to with
50:58
you, there's Wetherspoons get around.
51:00
I believe that they're child friendly, interestingly, not dog
51:04
friendly. OK, We, he sat outside of
51:07
Wetherspoons in Great Yarmouth just to use their Wi-Fi quickly
51:12
while we were on, while we were on holiday.
51:14
And we were sat outside and we had our dogs in a pram.
51:16
But there was a woman on the table next to us who had a
51:19
little dog who was sat on her lap and somebody came out of the
51:23
pub and told her she had to leave because dogs weren't
51:27
allowed in the pub. And she was like, well, we're
51:28
not in the pub. We're sat outside and but dogs
51:30
weren't even allowed to sit on the pavement table outside.
51:34
But interestingly, as we're in a pram, so they didn't notice them
51:37
and they didn't tell us to leave.
51:38
But that's, that's, that's another story.
51:41
And there are a whole range of other places like that.
51:44
I would say, you know, when you're talking like, I don't
51:46
know, like the chain pubs, Hungry Horses, are they
51:49
Beefeaters? I guess you know those kind of.
51:52
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
51:53
They've always got kids running around.
51:54
They're the kind of pubs that will provide you with crayons
51:57
and stuff like. That Brewers Fair, I was fair
52:01
because it's FAYRE and they've got like a ball pit thing like
52:06
attached to it. And back in, back in day when
52:09
mine were little and I drank alcohol, you know, that was a
52:12
great place to go because yeah, they shoved them in the ball
52:14
pit. They're running around.
52:16
Obviously they weren't babies, You know what I mean?
52:18
5-6 or whatever in they go and we could have a drink.
52:22
So there are places like that, definitely.
52:26
I would suggest that the argument, rather than being that
52:29
there aren't child friendly spaces, is more like I don't
52:33
want to go to the child friendly.
52:34
Yeah, I mean, it was, I wasn't a fan, but it was great because
52:38
the children were happy and could be feral, you know what I
52:42
mean? They can, it's in, it's they're
52:43
in a ball pit. They're running around like
52:46
their life depends on it and we can sit and be calm.
52:51
As you said, they they exist. So I mean, they might not exist
52:54
in Hackney. I have no idea.
52:57
So I think it's about appropriateness.
52:59
I think you're right. You just.
53:00
Have to accept that some choices you make in life are going to
53:04
like maybe affect some of your options.
53:07
You know, even when it comes to having the dogs, I accept that
53:12
they want their dinner at 5:00 every night and therefore I damn
53:15
well better be home at 5:00 every night.
53:16
You know, there's no, no going out at 4:00 for a drink and
53:20
coming home at 8:00. Oh, no.
53:22
Like that's unless I'm taking the dogs with me.
53:25
I have to make that exception. I you know, I know that I can't
53:29
arrange to go on holiday to Spain next week without finding
53:32
somebody to look after my dogs. Literally what you just said
53:35
about your dog's dinner has made me think like, tell, tell me
53:39
you're child free without telling me you're child free
53:41
because my dogs will get fed when they're fed.
53:44
I've got enough to think about. I've got all these other people
53:48
to feed. I mean, it's different now.
53:49
They're teenagers. But when they were little, I had
53:51
cats and it was like the cats like, well, lowest of the low of
53:55
the list of getting fed. And they obviously always got
53:57
fed before anybody complaints. But it's, you know, like if they
54:01
were like I once 5:00, I'll be like, look, mate, look cat, I'm
54:05
dealing with my daughter. This is my mum said that this
54:08
weekend, because they've just got, they've just got little
54:10
like Pomeranians and they've, we've always took the Mickey out
54:13
of us with the pugs where they were like, Oh my God, they'll be
54:16
fine, leave them alone. And they were, they were
54:18
spoiled. And now my mum is like, oh, they
54:20
get sardines for breakfast and then we give them a little bit
54:23
of chicken for dinner in the evening.
54:24
And I'm like, right. And hours are spoiled.
54:26
And she was like, well, to be honest, I get it now because
54:29
whenever we had dogs before, we also had children to look after.
54:32
So, you know, the dogs came in like bottom of the list.
54:35
Whereas whereas now the children have left the house, apparently
54:38
I'm not her child anymore, but the children have left the
54:41
house. The dogs have bumped themselves
54:43
up. Yeah, there is.
54:45
Definitely sardines for breakfast.
54:47
You know you get fed when you get fed, mate.
54:49
I've got a lot going on right now.
54:50
I mean obviously they are always fed.
54:52
They are pampered pooches, but they are lower on the list.
54:57
But anyway, I have a problem with my dogs going out.
54:59
As I said, they're dachshunds. They bark non-stop because
55:04
they're dachshunds. That's literally part of their
55:06
makeup. And so if we took them to a pub
55:09
and they just bark to everybody, it's the absolute nightmare.
55:11
We don't have to leave. And you, it's really stressful
55:14
because they won't calm down. But then so you don't take them.
55:18
But if you don't take them, they'll never get used to being
55:20
around people. So it is that chicken and egg
55:23
bit, you know, back to where we started if you don't.
55:25
Tap. But then that part.
55:27
The pub is not a training ground, is it?
55:29
It's not a training gown for children.
55:30
I mean, it's not a training ground for dogs.
55:32
If you want to do that kind of training, then there are places
55:36
that you could take them to get around, to get better at being
55:38
around people, Pets at Home. They're.
55:41
Pets, they don't bark at Pets at Home.
55:42
There's too much to sniff. Yeah, so.
55:45
And. And there we are.
55:46
Making a point about appropriate places for dogs and children
55:49
again. Well, yeah, back to my local.
55:51
Not now, but years ago it did have a problem with drugs.
55:55
And I remember there being kids running around and doing all
55:58
that. And it's all just like, you
55:59
know, there's a lot going on here.
56:01
There's a lot that's really not appropriate.
56:04
And also people getting more and more drunk.
56:07
You might not be as a parent, but what else is going on?
56:11
What, you know, bad language, you know, for example, you know
56:14
some of the things I hear in my pub, in our local pub.
56:17
Now, do I want my 3 year old sitting next to, you know, like,
56:22
so it's not necessarily appropriate either.
56:24
And should adults be expected to moderate their behavior for
56:27
somebody else's children? No, it's my, it's my opinion.
56:32
I mean, these guys could have moderated their behavior because
56:34
they were being assholes and really misogynistic.
56:37
But you know, we could you turn it down because I've got my
56:41
child here. I don't know.
56:42
So they should just turn it down anyway.
56:45
Could you tone it down because you're an asshole?
56:47
Fair enough. Exactly, that's what I wanted to
56:50
say. So yeah, buried, you know, I'm
56:53
kind of in agreement. You know, it back to the
56:56
original story. It's their pub.
56:58
If they they can do what they like and if they've had children
57:00
falling down the cellar fricking trapdoor, then there's a
57:04
problem, isn't there? Definitely.
57:07
Drunk people may also fall down cellar trapdoors.
57:09
Yeah, why was the cellar door trap staff could fall down it,
57:13
though I did think when you said it, like yeah.
57:16
I mean that that that did occurred, that did occurred to
57:18
me as well, but it, I don't know, it depends how how.
57:20
I mean, 3 year olds shouldn't be running around anywhere with the
57:23
trapdoor if the trapdoor was just left open very briefly or
57:27
you know, anyway. But that site that their health
57:30
and safety issues aside, good. Well, I'm glad.
57:32
We fixed that one. We're both in agreement, yes,
57:35
and we're in. Agreement.
57:36
One as a parent and one as a non parent.
57:38
So that's. One of the not and one of the
57:40
not parents. So it's yes.
57:42
Pick your places, people. Pick your places.
57:45
The Brewers Fair Thank you for joining us for another roundup
57:48
of midlife chat, hot takes and occasional moaning.
57:51
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