Latest / Finding New Waters / Trauma, Recovery, and the Work Beneath Sobriety | Michael Gilpin

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Trauma, Recovery, and the Work Beneath Sobriety | Michael Gilpin · Finding New Waters

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My life, like, fell apart when I was eight years sober, like
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really fell apart. And I knew, like, right when it
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happened, I was like, I know where this is coming from.
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I know what this is. But it showed up in a way that
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was like, different. I mean, I was writing like,
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goodbye letters to my daughter, right, for like weeks at a time.
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And I couldn't do it. I'd be like, I can't like do
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this to her. Welcome back everybody to
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another episode of Finding New Waters.
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My name is Bea Reeves. I'm the Director of Business
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Development here at New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, sitting
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here with our CEO, Justin McClendon and our very special
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guest today, Mr. Michael Gilpin. Welcome, Michael.
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Thanks guys. Thanks for having me on here.
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Always nice to see both of you all's faces.
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Same. It's great to see you before we
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get into kind of, you know, asking you what you do.
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I just wanted to say Michael may be the first person I ever met
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outside of the my actual organization when I first
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started working in the field seems like a million years ago,
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but 5 1/2 years ago at a lunch at Making Hole in Asheville
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hosted by former guest Jeremy French.
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So, you know, I have a special place in my heart for Michael
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for that reason, and he's a good egg.
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Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, man.
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I was actually talking to someone about this.
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First of all, we need to like acknowledge how far we've come
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in five years. I think that like I could have
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never guessed that like, oh, this is where my life would have
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led. I mean, I had hopes and dreams
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and stuff like that. But like us five years ago, we
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were just like fish out of water trying to figure it out.
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I, I don't know if you know this be and maybe you do.
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You're just like too sweet to ever talk about it, but you know
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that me and you applied for the same job and you got it.
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I did not know that. Where?
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Yeah, yeah. So that.
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It real. It real recovery.
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Yeah, yeah. We both applied for that same
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job after my buddy left there. Yeah, yeah.
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There's no like talus or anything like that.
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There's nothing like that. It was just, yeah, we applied
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for the same thing. I did not know that, and what I
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would say is that it sounds like you were too sweet to say
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anything about it until now. Well, next to my gratitude list
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every morning, there's a resentment.
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Yeah, I get it. Top of it.
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Hey, man, obviously happened for a reason.
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And you know, it's funny you say that too, because when I met you
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at making whole that lunch, at lunch that day, you seemed like
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you were, you know, an old, you know, knew what you were doing
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when I clearly didn't. Oh, dude, I appreciate you
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saying that. I mean, I think the people who
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are, and I'm sure all of us on this call are like this, but
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like the people who are like really close to me know how
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messy it is on the inside and the people and like when it's
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like time for work, you know, you, I wouldn't say shove it
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down. It's more just like deal with it
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later, right? But yeah, no, I mean, every day
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I'm just like, I run into something.
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I'm like, how do I, how do I handle this?
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How do I manage this? But I appreciate you saying
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that, man. I think one of I was talking to
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somebody really recently and for me and who I am and my
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personality, I don't think this is a generalized statement or
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like ubiquitous at all. But like, I need to have like
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what's going on inside of me and how I present myself to the real
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world to actually like, have a conversation with each other or
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all like feed one or the other, like way too much and like
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spiral into oblivion, you know, or just like think I'm too good
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for every space that I find myself in.
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So it's like a lot of my work is making sure that those two are
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in conversation to like, you know, have a relationship inside
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of me. I like that.
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I think that is very important. I would assume that everybody
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can relate to that a little bit, right?
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Yeah, that reminded me. I remember one time I heard this
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lady speak and she was talking about how this was an early
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COVID and she had lost her business and she was really
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struggling. And her she had a daughter who
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was also struggling, who was in high school.
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And is she was going through all this stuff, losing a business
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and you know, word financial insecurity, all that.
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But she realized that she even though she had all these issues
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herself, she still it wasn't fair for her to completely break
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down because her daughter needed her.
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And I mean, I can totally relate to you when things are going on
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with me, it's not fair for me to be say to, you know, my friends
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and my colleagues and you know, my Co workers.
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Oh, I'm going through this thing.
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So I just, you know, I can't possibly be do my job, you know,
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So there I think there's that's OK to kind of not necessarily
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just totally fake it, but compartmentalize kind of like
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you were saying. Well, and I think, you know, in
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a, in addition to that, I think the nature of the work that we
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do, which is, you know, likely not true in some other fields, I
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don't know, because this is all I know.
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But the nature of the work that we do is so much like not about
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us, right? That I think there's a duty to,
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you know, not, as we're all saying, not an unhealthy way to
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kind of shove it down, but like the nature of the work that we
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do is about trying to help other people, you know, be better in
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some way or another. And like, you know, there's, we
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got to put our stuff aside, focus on what's important, and
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then we can always come back to our stuff, I guess, right?
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That is absolutely. No, I mean, that's a definitely
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a beautiful way to put it. And I'm not one like I want, I
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want to be careful, like I don't want to argue or anything like
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that with you guys. But in terms of like discourse
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too, like we all of us are in positions to yes, like help
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people and see things inside of them that they can't see yet or
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like offer something or a path or whatever it is.
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But I, I also like, try to be careful too, because like we are
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also like put ourselves in positions of problem solvers,
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you know, like we put ourselves in positions where it's much
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easier to like, help someone else then and like forget about
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ourselves. And it's like a really tricky
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dance. And it's also like a really
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tricky dance to be like, hey, this is what we do for work, you
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know, like there's a lot of stuff we do out of the kindness
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of our heart. There's a lot of like, you know,
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all of that. But on the other hand too, like
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this is stuff we do with work. Like I can't misconstrue this
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with like, you know, I'm not serving meals at a soup kitchen
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every single day, right? Like that's like service, right
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like that or that is like helping other people.
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And I think there's this like really fine line of making sure
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that I keep like certain things separate.
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Like I'm good. Like let's say like on the best
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day, I'm average to decent at what I do for work, but it is
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still work, right? And like people come to us for
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answers and people come to us to problem solve.
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And so there is a bit of it that is like this is about us too.
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Like we all, all three of us, four of us develop skills that
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put us in positions where like we have the answer, we're going
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to try to figure it out. And if we don't have the answer,
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then that's when it's like on us, right?
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To be like, let me go find it or tell that person straight up
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who's in the middle of whatever meltdown or chaos is in their
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life and be like, hey, I don't know, I'm going to have to get
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back to you and not just fill it with like pretty words or
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something like that. And I'm not, I'm not trying to
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be nitpicky with you guys at all, but I have to be like
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nitpicky with myself because I'll like, I'll trick myself
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really quickly into being like, you know, I'm doing God's work.
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It's like, yeah, kind of. Oh my God, I'm so I'm this, this
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conversation cannot come up enough.
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And I, I mean, I'm, I'm almost paranoid about it.
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You know, when somebody tells me, you know, I've talked to one
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of my best friends last night, I've known in my entire life,
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you know, it was in his wedding or dads were in each other's
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weddings, like known him since I was born.
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And he was just saying, oh man, you just, what y'all do you just
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help so many people. And it's like, that's my job.
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You know, I get, I get paid for that, you know, but it, and what
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I'm really getting at is what you were saying is the best of
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the best advice I got when I started working in this field 5
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1/2 years ago was do not let this be my recovery.
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Because I, the moment I start telling myself that helping
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somebody or talking to some family at midnight on a Friday
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night or whatever it is, you know, getting them into
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treatment, that that's my job, you know, and my, my, my
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recovery is separate. But hopefully my recovery can
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complement my job and, and vice versa too.
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But they've got to be separate because we all see it in our
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field where people start muddy in the waters and lines get
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blurred. And next thing you know, people
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are telling themselves that, you know, they don't really need
9:04
recovery anymore. They just they work in a
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treatment center. They work at, you know, whatever
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the job is. And, you know, I mean, a lot of
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them are have the kind of same sick minds like my mind that
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will, you know, trick us, you know, and talk to us in our own
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voice. Yeah, ma'am, I think on that
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note, I think like if I'm like taking myself, taking care of
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myself appropriately, like let's say across the board, I'm
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showing up to my responsibility, my relationships, my life, like
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good enough, right? Like good at least OK.
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And I'm OK with that. I think we're like, let's say my
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life or my well-being or my recovery, like things like in
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that category. If I'm not taking care of it,
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then all that stuff falls apart, right?
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Like the thresh, like the downward threshold is much
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higher than the upwards threshold.
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Like I'm I'm OK with being able to take care of everything.
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Like having a daughter who texts me like, Hey, how are you right?
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Like I'm cool with that, right. And that's like great stuff and
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I'm grateful for like, I don't, I'm not like working towards
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getting a yacht, right? But if I'm like not taking care
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of myself, like all that shit hits the fan and it is like a
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very like non sexy engagement with life.
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And maybe I'm not going to like, you know, shoot heroin or like
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drink again, but I like will destroy all that.
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And like that has like shown itself to be true in my own life
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and my own recovery and stayed sober through it, like by the
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grace of God or whatever. But the reality is, you know,
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that sucks too. Like low points in recovery and
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not using or not drinking and being like, oh, like I didn't, I
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did this on my own. Like I, I screwed up my own life
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because of my own choices and not because I was blacked out or
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like, you know, trying to find my next fix or something.
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What on this conversation, like on this point, the first time I
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heard it was like, so I started working in the like in mental
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health like 12 years ago. And I was newly sober and I was
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really evangelistic about 12 step groups.
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And I was working at a program and I was a wilderness guide at
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the time. And I had a therapist like pull
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me aside after a shift. And he was just like, hey, dude,
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I just need you to know, like, that's the way it like work for
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you. That might not be the way it
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works for everyone. And he's like, if someone's like
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choosing another path, like you got to give them a try.
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And I'm like, really glad I got hit with that, you know, within,
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let's say, like within my first couple years of sobriety.
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And I, we, I also had like good rapport with that therapist.
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And I really like the client too.
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And I just kept on asking myself like, why is this kid not
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listening? You know, like, why is he not
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doing exactly what I say? And that therapist like really
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opened my eyes to this idea that like this thing that played an
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integral role in my life and getting the stuff back I wanted
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and myself and my spiritual well-being.
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Like it offered me so much, but it, it might not be right for
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that guy. And that's when I kind of,
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that's when I like really realized like, oh, don't like,
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don't mix the two. And I don't think that that's
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necessarily a likely thought process or like outcome to come
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from that. But I think it was just in that
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moment I was like, what else can I apply this to?
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They're like, how is it? Just let's see if this really
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fits at that job also was where I met the first professional who
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was doing a tour, who did, who worked with families.
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And that was the first time that I was like, hey, I that's what I
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want to do. Like that's what my family
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needed for me. I think my family went through
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the grinder when I was in high school.
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Like, you know, we've talked about this some, but they didn't
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know what to do with me. And I, they sent me to boarding
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school, you know, and I was like going to the hospital, I was
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wrecking cars. I was like doing well in school
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and like was probably like headed to play soccer in
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college. And everyone was just kind of
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like, yo, it's a phase. It's phase.
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And like my parents just like didn't know what to do.
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And they were so lost and so was I.
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And it was such a messy situation.
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I was like, oh, if my family had someone to work with them,
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whether it be a case manager or a consultant or whatever it was,
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they just kind of be like, Hey, try this.
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I don't, to be honest, I don't actually know how much my
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trajectory would have changed. It's hard to go back and be
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like, well, things would have been different, you know, But I
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think what's really clear is a lot of their pain would have
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been alleviated. And if like to the earlier part
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of our conversation, like I would much rather like look back
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and be like, I wish I could take some of my parents pain away and
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like confusion away and fear away from like me.
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I was just like a knucklehead. Like I was going to do what I
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was going to do, but they could have used the support.
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And so when I was working there, I was like, that's my 10 year
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plan. And so I kind of made, started
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making all my decisions to get to this place of becoming, you
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know, a consultant working with families, helping people find
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get into treatment. So I, I, I don't know.
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I don't know if we've ever talked.
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About no, that's usually on these we start the podcast off
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by just, you know, kind of what do you do?
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And I mean, I love that we didn't need to do that here.
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But what do you do? Tell us what you do.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that, but I also, so I
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guess my technical job title, I do two things.
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Currently my technical job title is a therapy placement
15:03
consultant and I'm also working with a program in Florida called
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the Guest House at Ocala. I joined the Guest House this
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year to join their like front office, like business
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development team. And prior to that for the past
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four years I've been working with families directly.
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And currently what that looks like is I work with under 18
15:31
year old families, so adolescents and families of
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that. So like consultant for under 18
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year olds, over 18 year olds I either refer out to another
15:45
group or mostly focus on the guest house.
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Gotcha. Let's one thing at a time.
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So we love the guest house. You know that we we refer our
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clients, especially our assessment clients to the guest
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house. We love the guest house.
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Unbelievable program, especially for trauma.
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But let's start with the consulting piece because the I,
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I didn't realize I knew what you did until I was in the field.
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And, and it turns out that my parents sought the help of the
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like kind of the only consultant in Raleigh back in the, you
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know, the 90s and early 2000s. It was Anne, Anne Sloan, amazing
16:24
person. But for most people don't really
16:28
know what this really is. Will you just kind of explain to
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our audience what a consultant is, especially this type of
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consultant, because that word is has many, many definitions.
16:39
Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, I also want to
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be clear and careful here, Like I'm going to explain like my
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perception of it. I think other people's would,
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other people would describe in different ways.
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And I think you're right, it's a pretty prolific term.
16:56
And a lot of times you're hiring a consultant for who they are,
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like, oh, this person would work really well with this family,
17:05
the system that they provide. But I think on a really basic
17:11
level, I was like, when I'm working with the family, when
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I'm there doing initial calls or I'm doing my first long call,
17:21
maybe after they've signed on, I'm trying to assess like how
17:27
stuck they are, why they're stuck in the questions that are
17:31
unanswered to get them unstuck, right?
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And I know that's like a really abbreviated way to put it, but
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it's kind of like the assessment tool, right?
17:40
And anyone can relate with being stuck.
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A lot of us or some of us have more answers as to why.
17:47
Some people, it's more simple. It's like, well, let's just like
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get them off of drugs and maybe it's the right medication or a
17:54
medication adjustment like, and that's OK.
17:56
And like that family, like probably doesn't need me, right?
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That family is like, oh, me just being like, hey, you know,
18:02
called new waters, right? You know, get an assessment,
18:06
detox, let's see what's going on under the hood.
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So I work with families for 6 to 12 months.
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The reason for that is, well, one, we all know that it's not a
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very quick process, right? Like if there is a silver bullet
18:26
for mental health or addiction, like I'd be blissfully out of a
18:29
job, you know, like I'd go work in like tech or something.
18:32
I don't know, I would be like a candy tester or something, but
18:39
I, it takes a long time and I focus on trauma and substance
18:44
use and kind of, I'm brought into the picture a lot when
18:51
there's like a behavioral or like a neurodivergence, like
18:54
something like someone's gone on long enough where the like
18:59
standard or conventional approaches like aren't working.
19:04
So I kind of come in and see what needs to be answered.
19:07
A lot of it is consultation with other people, talking to all the
19:10
stakeholders or the care team, whoever's invested.
19:13
And you know, sometimes it's like a basketball coach or a
19:16
girlfriend or a psychologist or a psychiatrist.
19:19
It's a lot of like you can get a lot of information from like
19:23
surprising people you know, and then you kind of build a plan.
19:29
And so the six months is to really just hold them through
19:31
all the stages of change. It's this is like the most
19:36
overused platitude, but it is very rarely like a linear path.
19:41
You know, if you have a client that you think is going to be a
19:44
linear path that needs a consultant, send them over to
19:46
me. Because that's not, that's not
19:48
the situation that I find myself in.
19:52
But it yeah, I, I don't know. I hope that's.
19:55
Helpful it definitely and go ahead.
19:57
Well, I was just going to say I think it is helpful in
19:59
explaining and I think just the. The job itself is, is very
20:05
helpful because I mean, I think anybody that works in this field
20:07
sees that a lot. I mean, you have a family or an
20:10
individual who's in crisis and like, you know, unless they have
20:13
had some kind of experience with this either personally or with a
20:17
family member or something like that, like most of the time,
20:19
nobody really knows where to start.
20:21
It's like, OK, I got a problem. I don't know what to do about
20:23
it. And I, and I don't know what
20:25
especially trying to navigate the world of like treatment
20:28
options and like, where do you start and what's the differences
20:31
and what's going to be helpful? I mean, it is just an
20:33
overwhelming decision process. So I, I love the work that that
20:39
you and other individuals that have kind of stepped into that
20:41
space are, are doing, Michael, because I just feel like it's so
20:44
valuable. Unless that family member or
20:47
that that individual is lucky enough to, you know, call a
20:51
treatment center that the admissions person on the other
20:53
end of that phone is going to be willing to help them navigate
20:56
that. It really is difficult.
20:57
I mean, where to turn? What questions do you ask?
21:00
It's, it's a lot. So thank you I guess for for the
21:03
work that you're doing. Yeah, no, it's funny you say
21:06
that right after how we started off this call being like, yeah,
21:10
yeah, my job. No, but I appreciate it.
21:14
I think I am lucky in that my job and my calling a lot, right.
21:19
I think that's, I think that's probably true for all of us on
21:21
this call. That's so well said.
21:23
Yeah, right. Yeah.
21:26
I think, you know, we meet so many people who aren't like the
21:30
bottom falls out from like at 354555.
21:34
And it's like I've spent my whole life doing something that
21:37
was my true calling. And like, I found it early, you
21:39
know, in my 20s and, you know, I made my mistakes, had my foot in
21:45
my mouth, done all, all the things.
21:47
And I'm surely I'm going to screw up more in the future.
21:50
But I think I think that's how I put that.
21:53
The other thing too, I think is important is like, I do think
22:01
there's like some world in the future where maybe like my
22:06
services aren't always necessary, right?
22:09
Maybe there is a world in the like where people end up where
22:13
they're supposed to be for the long term and families have
22:16
support for the long term. I think a lot of times I'm like
22:20
working with moms who have been mother, case manager, social
22:24
worker, you know, Med giver for so long.
22:27
And I'm just like, I just want them to I, I like tell them
22:30
this. I'm like, hey, I just need you
22:31
to be mom right now or I just need you to be dad right now.
22:35
And it's so difficult, right? Like I have my own daughter and
22:39
if I saw her going through something or if I saw her would
22:42
I perceive as getting mistreated or something like that?
22:46
I don't know. I be in prison.
22:48
Probably I wouldn't be, but I I don't know what I would do.
22:55
Well, you just brought up an interesting point.
22:57
It's 'cause that's your daughter and when.
22:59
And the 1A big part of the value of what you do as a consultant
23:03
with families is it's not your kit.
23:06
So you're able to be objective and that and no matter what with
23:10
parents, it's absolutely impossible.
23:12
It's their kit. It's just all there is to it.
23:13
And so even if they are willing to kind of set boundaries and,
23:18
and stick to them and they still aren't able to see clearly
23:23
because it is their kid and it is just just by nature, it's
23:27
impossible to be objective in that situation.
23:29
And then, like you said, you know, you, you, you keep them
23:32
accountable and keep them at Bay when need be and keep, hey, just
23:36
be mom for now and let me make these hard choices.
23:39
So you kind of don't have to because you know, it's just
23:43
impossible for a parent to step back.
23:46
That's just all there is to it. Yeah.
23:49
And like, I think one of the difficult things about our world
23:57
is like what's information about a client and what is that
24:04
information like telling them or doing for them.
24:07
And I want to be, I also want to be really, really just like so,
24:11
so careful here, right? So I'm going to end, I'm going
24:13
to start with like the point that I'm getting AT and then
24:16
I'll explain it, which is like, these are the cards that were
24:23
dealt and like we got to figure out how to play that hand.
24:28
And a lot of the time, it's like learning how to like, love and
24:34
accept ourselves. And like, that's a difficult
24:36
thing. That's a moving target.
24:38
Any day of the week. You talk to me every 10 minutes.
24:41
That'll give you a different answer about how am I in
24:43
relation to myself, right? So when I'm working with parents
24:47
a lot, like they're a lot of times, and this isn't their
24:51
fault, right? But they're fixated on diagnosis
24:53
or medication or modalities. And I'm like, hey, like if
24:57
you've been using your language with your, like, with your kid
25:00
like this for 10 years, like the unintended consequence or
25:05
outcome is most likely that they're broken and they need to
25:07
be fixed. Whereas like, one of the
25:10
realities, especially working in substance use and trauma, is
25:14
that this is like who we are. And like we've got to learn to
25:20
love and at least accept and recognize the parts of ourselves
25:24
that we thought were like the most distasteful or disdainful
25:28
or that the world wouldn't like love or appreciate.
25:34
And so that's not like an attack on the DSM or medication or
25:38
anything like that. I think there's like some really
25:41
obvious places where that's like super necessary.
25:43
But like once like, let's say detox or stabilization and it's
25:48
like, OK, how do we help this person be OK with who they are?
25:56
And I know that's not like a that's not like a slap in the
26:00
face thing, but it's really difficult, right?
26:02
It's really difficult when you're passively getting that
26:06
from your parents. Social media is telling you like
26:10
this is what OK is or good is this is everyone in your
26:13
community is going to a four year college.
26:15
Oh, maybe you're going to treat me when you're 22 and they're
26:18
all going to like get their MBAs or Med school or law school.
26:21
Like it's like that is difficult, right?
26:24
And for me to say that to a 17 or 22 year old, like, hey, man,
26:28
like it's OK. And you just have a different
26:31
path. Like I am just but a faint
26:32
whisper. And so it's like a lot of it to
26:36
me is just like, how can we get them in the right community
26:39
where other people are trying to do the same hustle that they're
26:42
doing? And then like that I think
26:44
alleviates a lot of the struggle and pain.
26:46
It's not a fix. Like I'm not saying like, let's
26:48
get them around other people who have been through some shit who
26:51
can like, who are trying to get out of it.
26:54
I I know that that's not like it all the time, but it's
26:58
definitely, definitely helpful, especially for like that young
27:01
adult or adolescent who uses their community or peer group or
27:05
lack of community and peer group to understand who they are.
27:12
Yeah. So that's, that's a lot, a lot
27:14
of my messaging or a lot of my conversations with families on a
27:18
like a weekly basis is, you know, this is going to be, this
27:23
could be a really long journey. I, I always try to prepare
27:26
people for that early. There's no silver bullet.
27:29
And also like, we have to figure out a way to like get your kid
27:35
in the right environment so that they can like learn to love
27:39
themselves and accept themselves.
27:43
So sorry that. Was no man.
27:45
No, it's beautiful. Amazing.
27:46
Well, you want to move on and just talk about, talk about the
27:50
guest house. We've never had anybody from the
27:51
guest house on here. So this is great.
27:54
Oh, yeah. Well, there's probably a lot
27:56
better people to represent the guest house than me, but the
28:01
guest house was started by these two people named Judy Crane and
28:06
John West. It's down in Ocala, FL.
28:09
It's a trauma and addiction program.
28:14
I, I think one of the best ways to think about guest houses, you
28:20
know, is this person like, have they tried other treatments that
28:25
aren't working? Are they stuck in some sort of
28:28
way? Is that are the question marks
28:30
around why they're stuck? Probably have to do with trauma
28:34
or substance use, because we do like all things trauma, right?
28:42
And I think that's the best starting place for like when to
28:44
consider guest house, you know, and we'll do family workshops.
28:49
We also can do intensive so people maybe who either can't
28:53
stay for, you know, thirty 6090 days but can do 2 weeks.
29:00
We come, we fight, you know, we haven't come down and we kind of
29:03
bring treatment to that. It also works really well with
29:06
maybe somebody who isn't like at a place in their, you know,
29:15
mental health or trauma or substance use journey to like be
29:19
in community with other people who like need to kind of do the
29:22
work on their own. And maybe that person does a 2
29:25
week intensive and then goes into, you know, the milieu of
29:29
the guest house. It's a beautiful place.
29:33
I've I've been there for a professionals tour and everybody
29:36
I know who works there, Judy John, the aforementioned Co
29:41
founder and Co owners, Lauren the your medical director came
29:44
to new waters and spoke to our our team and their community.
29:48
I mean, just it's just great. And what the reason we use it,
29:51
Justin, you know this better than I do, but is a lot of times
29:54
people come to us and do a diagnostic assessment and what
29:58
happens is a trauma or you know, capital T, lowercase T trauma,
30:03
multiple traumas. They are either uncovered in our
30:06
care doing an assessment or re sort of reinterpreted.
30:13
But but we don't, we don't have the capacity to once they kind
30:19
of open that up and to deal with it.
30:20
Well, that's not what we do. That's why we send them to the
30:22
guest house. So they have that nurturing
30:24
environment for a longer period of time where you can to work on
30:27
it. What we do is kind of typically
30:29
uncover it, right, Wouldn't you say?
30:31
Yeah. And, you know, just to go on a
30:33
tiny, tiny, tiny tangent here, you know, we all know, I think
30:37
anybody that spends some time, you know, kicking the tires of
30:40
this, this field, you know, there's this kind of theoretical
30:43
thing that we've all developed that like trauma tends to be the
30:46
source of a lot of the stuff that ails us, so to speak,
30:48
right. And, you know, the assessment
30:51
work that we do is, I mean, we absolutely love it.
30:53
I mean, it is just so much fun and just being able to help
30:57
people see things that they weren't able to see before, help
30:59
them just put words to things that they didn't know were going
31:03
on and really be able to like, help give clarity around like,
31:05
Hey, what does a path look like? What do you want life to look
31:08
like, at least right now? And your ability to, to, to
31:11
think about that and, and how can we help you kind of move in
31:14
that direction in the vast majority of time?
31:17
I mean, we help people uncovers like some really interesting
31:20
things. And it's, it's been a lot of fun
31:22
to, to do that. But trauma is just, I mean, if I
31:25
had to put a statistic to it, it's got to be 90 something
31:29
percent of the time that it is either the obviously the direct
31:33
result of trauma or trauma is definitely complicating the
31:38
picture, generally speaking. And you know, we, we keep a, you
31:42
know, kind of short list of like good long term treatment
31:47
programs that specialize in trauma and, and guest house has
31:50
always been a very high on that list for sure.
31:52
You guys do a fantastic job down there.
31:55
Thanks. I appreciate.
31:57
I appreciate you guys saying that it is right.
32:00
Like it's insidious when we go back to those like that
32:04
messaging that I was talking about of like how to get someone
32:10
to accept or love themselves. Like you throw trauma into that
32:13
messaging is so, so difficult, you know, and there is a wide
32:18
variety of like what can happen to a person and how that's
32:22
stored in the body. And, you know, it's one of the
32:27
things that I love about the guesthouse is it's so clinically
32:34
driven that they'll take a look, right?
32:37
You know, we'll get calls for some of the wildest things.
32:40
And it's like, yeah, let's, let's take a look, let's try,
32:44
let's see if we can make it work.
32:47
And I really appreciate that. Right, 'cause like, you know,
32:51
we've all been in this space for long enough and places have rule
32:54
outs or whatever, like exclusionary criteria.
32:57
And it's nice to work for a place that's like, yeah, well,
33:03
we're going to spend enough time up front for on like, like,
33:07
obviously this person needs help.
33:08
Everyone deserves a place to heal and recover.
33:11
And can we can we make it happen?
33:13
Can we, can it work? And like, you know, it's
33:15
honestly, sometimes the answer is no.
33:17
But we always like do our due diligence.
33:19
It's not like the first admissions call where you're
33:21
just like, Nope, We definitely like put put the time in.
33:26
Trauma is also insidious in that it just shows up in your life in
33:29
so many ways. Like it is like people talk
33:32
about like substance use recovery is maintenance, but
33:35
doing trauma work is maintenance, right?
33:37
Because our like hoping mechanisms around it or how
33:41
until we've worked on it, we've developed a certain set of tools
33:45
around it that help us survive, right?
33:48
Then when our life cracks or when those coping mechanisms or
33:53
tools like start to crack and fracture, then the bottom falls
33:57
out. Then like you ask yourself like,
34:01
who am I? Am I really going to have to
34:04
address this thing that I built my like whole life around, like
34:08
kind of avoiding or like in contention with?
34:12
And like this happened to me. B and I have talked about this
34:15
before, but my life like fell apart when I was eight years
34:19
sober, like really fell apart. And I knew like right when it
34:24
happened, I was like, I know where this is coming from.
34:27
I know what this is, but it showed up in a way that was like
34:32
different, like it blew my life up.
34:37
Like really like it was between like, sorry, this is like gets a
34:43
bit darker. But it was between like, I mean,
34:46
I was writing like goodbye letters to my daughter, right,
34:49
For like weeks at a time and I couldn't do it.
34:52
I'd be like, I can't like do this to her.
34:56
And I was like, wait, what do people do?
34:58
Right, 'cause I thought, I thought the lie I told myself,
35:00
Speaking of the separation and like the lies we tell ourself to
35:04
keep us separated is I thought I'd done enough work.
35:07
Like I thought I was good in like, like really when that
35:13
happened, I was like, I have not done enough work.
35:17
And it was like, I'm not going to use again.
35:19
So it was between killing myself and that was it for a bit.
35:22
And then I kind of like came to and I was like, oh, I need to do
35:27
some work. Like I, I need to do some work.
35:29
And I signed up for a trauma intensive like that week.
35:34
And I went like 2 weeks later. I signed up that day pretty
35:37
much. Actually it was kind of a funny
35:39
call because like I was good friends with the people who do
35:42
the trauma intensive and I sent them a lot of clients.
35:45
So I, like, called the woman and she was, she's like, oh, hey,
35:51
Michael. You know, some, like usually
35:52
just whatever, like bullshitting or what whatever it is like.
35:55
And she's like, oh, hey, Michael.
35:57
And I was like crying on the phone.
35:58
I was like, hey. And she's like, oh, you're
36:01
calling about yourself, aren't you?
36:02
And I was like, yeah, I am. And it changed my life, ma'am.
36:11
I think one thing that I've learned through this process is
36:14
I'm like much more interested in like 1 to 5, one to five degrees
36:19
of change at a time. I like live my life so long to
36:22
just like jump in the deep end or like, how can I do a complete
36:25
180? And it's like, that's not it.
36:27
That's what I want. That's a lie I tell myself.
36:30
But really I need to do like 1° of change a day, a week, a
36:34
month, a year, whatever it is. But anyway, that's, that's how
36:39
trauma showed up here. And I like didn't I like by the
36:42
great, like thank God I didn't start doing heroin again or kill
36:47
myself, right. And that's when I started taking
36:52
more seriously and like kind of rebuilt my life after that.
36:55
And also shout out to at the time, I was working with a guy
37:02
named Nico down in Austin. And when I told him that I was
37:06
so nervous, I just started working for them and I I got my
37:12
very first lunch with them. I was like, Hey, I know I'm
37:15
about to I'm supposed to start this week, but I need to go to
37:18
on site and like Nico just looked at me and was like, hey,
37:23
man, we'll we'll support you. And they like paid for some of
37:27
it and like we're super understanding and like super
37:30
kind and like that was cool, right.
37:34
That is not something that you want to take to your like brand
37:37
new boss. And it was like at this like
37:40
restaurant in Austin. We're eating like tacos at like
37:43
Chuy's in Austin. And you I'm like basically like
37:47
crying. And he's like, dude, we're good,
37:48
man. We'll help you out.
37:49
And I'll like never forget kindness like that.
37:52
Man, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that.
37:54
I mean, that, you know, that I don't know if anybody's ever
37:58
really brought this up here on this podcast about the sort of
38:02
concept of stark raving sober, you know, just still doing, you
38:08
know, doing that work. But there's something missing in
38:11
that people can get to those dark places even after like, you
38:14
know, in your case, 8 years of sobriety.
38:16
And thank you. Yeah.
38:20
Thank you very. Much that that that, yeah, we
38:23
have talked about that. But thank you for sharing that
38:24
publicly because people need to hear that, man, that this just
38:27
because we get sober doesn't mean that we're not, you know,
38:30
we don't have that darkness that we can dip into.
38:32
So thank you. Yeah, yeah, of course, man.
38:36
I think I, I'm like probably more of a bristly person in
38:40
recovery meetings. Like I'm not one who's like,
38:41
hey, I'm going to talk about gratitude today, but I like to
38:44
give like people like three to five years, like you get 3 to
38:51
five years of being sober. And it's like I need more than
38:54
that. Like what else?
38:56
Like what? Like what else are you going to
38:58
do with this? Like new life you were given.
39:01
And that's like where my generosity ends because we have
39:04
to do more, man, like our responsibility, like to
39:08
ourselves and to other people. I also, like, have people who
39:17
asked me to, like, work with them.
39:19
And I'm like, dude, you do not want me to be your sponsor.
39:22
Like, I'm a fucking menace, man. Like, you don't want that.
39:27
Like, and I tried to talk about it for so long.
39:30
And if they're like more persistent than I am, like, you
39:33
know, standoffish, then I'm like, all right, let's go.
39:35
I'm going to ruin your life. Hopefully in a good way, right?
39:40
Yeah, no, in a great way. In a great way.
39:44
But I think that's a part of our responsibility, right.
39:46
It's like, hey, this is going to come like you got, we got to
39:49
prepare for it. I I hear.
39:52
It. I love them.
39:53
Yeah. Yeah.
39:55
God, isn't that the truth? I mean, life is just complex,
39:58
man, You know, to think that we're just going to, like, sit
40:00
back and everything's just going to be fine.
40:01
It's just, it's delusional, right?
40:03
Yeah. Dude, I, yeah, I wish.
40:07
Yeah, it's and a part of me doesn't.
40:10
Dude, I, you know, I think if I was created for like a really
40:16
like simple, like suburban, like white picket life, like that's
40:20
what my life would look like. I think at this point, if I like
40:24
point the finger at anyone else for how things are going or
40:27
whatever it is, then I'm, that's just a delusional thing.
40:31
Like I, I asked for this, the ups and downs and like, you
40:35
know, getting calls at 10:00 PM, like my son's getting arrested,
40:38
you know, whatever it is. Like that's what I signed up
40:40
for, man. Like there's a part of us that
40:42
like, we love this shit. Exactly.
40:45
Exactly. And I think that is a absolutely
40:49
perfect place to end this. We love this shit.
40:53
Yeah, me too. Well, hey, before we do go tell
40:56
our audience, how do they find you and your two different kind
41:01
of companies? You you have.
41:03
Well, guest house. I mean honestly I don't.
41:08
Sorry this is a weird answer, but do you guys like post notes?
41:11
Yeah, we'll put that. Up there too, all the links and
41:13
stuff, yeah, yeah. Than finds at the bottom of this
41:16
podcast. The.
41:19
Guest house at ocala.com And then for my information, I'll
41:22
put that on below. Awesome.
41:24
Perfect. Michael, I'll have my number on
41:26
there too. It's easier to text me most of
41:29
the time. Sounds good.
41:31
Well, thank you so much man. Yes, Thank you, Michael.
41:33
Awesome, great, great. Yeah, I think you.
41:36
Guys, like I feel like you can talk for a couple.
41:38
More yes. I agree absolutely.
41:42
Well, hey man, thank you so much.
41:43
Have a great day and happy holidays.
41:46
Yeah, man, you guys too. Keep doing your good work right.
41:49
You too, man Thank you. If you liked what you heard
41:51
today or just want to know more, give us a call on 9196708119 or
41:57
visit us at newwatersrecovery.com.
42:00
Thank you.