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To Introduce Our Guest Star - Episode Three: Paul Williams · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

0:11
Hello, my name is Jared Faircloth and I'm Johannes and
0:15
welcome to to introduce our guest star podcast for
0:18
topics.com in this show. Joe, and I are taking it in
0:21
turns to surprise each other with that wigs, guest.
0:23
And this week, it is my turn. Joe You have a chance here to
0:28
have a guest to ask few questions have a guess.
0:30
I'm very excited. That's all, you know.
0:33
Yeah so the mere fact that you told me how excited you are
0:35
about. This guests is a clue in itself.
0:39
I'm the kind of person who like when someone tells me like oh
0:43
something is going to happen in this movie.
0:45
It's like, well now all I want to do is figure out what that
0:48
thing is and half the time I figure it out and I'm sorely
0:52
disappointed. So That event already like in
0:57
the last couple of days as we've been planning.
0:59
This I've been kind of thinking of like, well, who could it be?
1:01
That Jared is so excited about, and I have a couple of thoughts.
1:04
But first, I want to narrow it down and I'll start with our big
1:08
question, Muppets Sesame or Henson Muppets, but there is a
1:12
little Henson in there. Oh, okay.
1:16
So, the person who I was thinking, would not have fallen
1:19
under Muppets in a little Henson, it was Muppets.
1:22
It would have been my little bit something else.
1:24
Okay, so okay, my appetite, a little Hanson, a little
1:26
handsome, a little handsome. Okay, this person is this person
1:33
in Muppets Most Wanted no pool boy.
1:37
Okay, my guest. Number two is completely out the
1:39
window. Okay.
1:43
Muppets and a little Henson hoof.
1:45
Yes boy, oh boy, I am glad of throwing you a little bit here
1:50
of completely thrown me. Is this person a performer
1:54
Muppet performer? No.
1:56
Alright. Well, I'm, I, I'm all of my
1:58
guesses were completely wrong. I am 100% unprepared.
2:03
Congratulations, you stumped me. Who is who is arguing?
2:05
Yes, would you like, what would you want to have?
2:07
Just a random stab in the dark. Okay, so it's not a performer.
2:10
It's someone who's worked with the Muppets and a little Henson.
2:13
Yep, I'm gonna guess That it's Jim Lewis, Muppet writer Jim
2:18
Lewis. Incorrect.
2:20
Joe, my guest today has had a career unparalleled in
2:23
Hollywood. He's won an Oscar, he has a
2:25
grimy or two, he's an actor. He's a singer.
2:28
He's worked with some of the biggest names in the business,
2:29
including the Carpenters Barbra Streisand and Helen Reddy, but
2:33
he's perhaps best known. Yep.
2:34
You're excited. He's perhaps best known to Us
2:36
Muppet fans as a songwriter behind the songs from The Muppet
2:39
Movie and Muppet Christmas. Carol Joe, this guy wrote
2:41
Rainbow Connection. Would you please welcome to to
2:44
introduce our guest star Paul Williams.
2:46
Boom Williams. I love poem.
2:49
Paul Williams. Hey Paul.
2:53
Oh yeah, wait a minute, just got out of the shower.
2:57
I got to make sure my ears just right.
2:59
You know, not perfect, it's perfect for a podcast.
3:05
It's that recently electrocuted looked it just works for the
3:08
Muppets. Look at perfect.
3:11
Exactly. Yeah, Paul.
3:12
Thank you so much for doing this right here urea.
3:16
So, you know, for an old guy that's holding up pretty good.
3:20
You're looking great. You know what I mean?
3:24
I'm 80. I turned 80 less last September
3:27
now. I feel like a tough.
3:29
I feel like I'm tired. 34 I do too, but I'm maybe slightly
3:36
closer to an actual 34. Just an article 34.
3:39
Yeah, well I I do too but I'm only 31 so here we need good
3:43
sign. I got sober when I was Forty
3:46
Nine and so you know it's been 30 years since then Feels like a
3:49
second life. So so I suppose, I could say
3:52
that, you know, spiritually, at least I'm 34.
3:55
And I certainly certainly in a lot better shape than I was
3:58
then. Well, thank you again for doing
4:00
this. I'm genuinely been so excited
4:03
for the last couple of weeks, know, we were doing this.
4:06
Well, I'm happy to be here. You know what I miss the most
4:10
important, loving caring of productive fun, collaboration of
4:16
my career you know, is has been with with the hence Grew and the
4:20
Muppets, and it's just, it's family, you know?
4:23
So I'm beyond grateful to anybody that wants to talk about
4:27
about the Muppets. Um, I'm right there, and this is
4:30
my pad mindset, so I should be here, okay?
4:34
This is this is actually for tough pigs.
4:38
What it is? It's the bar.
4:39
Yeah, it's for both sites, where we're doing, what we're doing, a
4:41
little team up here or nicely, done over it.
4:43
So I have a hope of a multi-level audience standards.
4:48
That's right. Right.
4:49
Let me it's all one level. Just two sides of the same coin.
4:53
It's should have named that the
5:05
podcast. It's not too late, there's a
5:07
little town. No started going to have a
5:10
great. I love it.
5:13
I want to I want to share for people who you know the first
5:16
time that you and I connected Paul.
5:19
Was oh gosh, you look back in my my email here.
5:21
This was back in 2012, a friend of mine, his name is Kevin was
5:27
going to a concert of yours and he says to me, do you want me to
5:32
pass a note along to Paul to see if he could do an interview with
5:35
tough pigs? And I said, oh yeah, of course.
5:37
Like what are the odds, it'll get to him and Kevin passed the
5:40
note to somebody who passed the note to someone else who pass
5:43
along to you. And I got an email from you and
5:49
I at first thought that someone was pranking me because why
5:52
would Paul Williams be emailing me out of the blue and you
5:56
proved it was you because there was a photo attached from
5:59
backstage of the Muppets at Carnegie Hall show that you did.
6:03
Yeah. So it's a picture of the Muppet
6:05
performers that their backs with the, they've got the puppets up
6:07
there behind the behind a little curtain, and you were so
6:12
generous with your time that you invited me and my co-writer Ryan
6:17
to your hotel. And we Set over breakfast and we
6:21
did this long interview. Remember all about all of the
6:25
amazing things you've done with the Muppets in the Henson
6:28
company and it was just such a treat to be able to, you know,
6:31
because we've heard your story before I read books that you've
6:34
written, I saw the great documentary about you still
6:37
alive and we've got your life story.
6:40
But to be able to really hone in on just, you know, Muppet Show
6:45
Muppet movie, Emma, daughter, Muppet Christmas Carol.
6:49
Little letters to Santa and just, you know.
6:52
Yeah, every individual song it was fantastic.
6:56
So what a treat that was? Yeah, it was great and good for
6:58
me to, I mean, I would tough pigs is, you know, as soon as
7:02
tough pigs was created, it became part of the family.
7:05
So, you know, it's a, it's a pleasure to talk about all this
7:10
stuff because it's the best stuff in my life.
7:12
I mean, and I probably in some ways feel like everything I've
7:15
written for the Muppets is, it's almost don't want to Put my name
7:19
on it because it just feels like it.
7:21
Just pours out of me when it relates to these characters
7:24
because because I know them and I love them and they feel like
7:27
family, I mean, Gonzo is as real to me as date goals.
7:32
So, writing for these guys are writing for a mature male or,
7:36
you know, I mean, if somebody really, you know, crass or awful
7:40
guy says something or does something around my wife Mariana
7:43
and I will turn to each other and go, they seem nice.
7:47
Sorry, we just go back to one of my favorite moments.
7:52
It's just those, those, those moments are just baked into
7:58
baked into into our lives. Yeah.
8:01
And very much so for us to, I mean, obviously, you know, for
8:03
Jared and myself, you know, we write about these things and
8:07
talk about these things on a daily basis.
8:09
It's, you know, it's kind of our bread and butter just to talk
8:11
about Muppets. But, you know, it's, it's
8:14
interesting to think of it in terms of family, you know, we're
8:18
kind of like the third cousin twice removed.
8:20
Yeah. A little bit because we don't
8:21
get to be there on set, we don't get to create these things but
8:24
but I mean, I don't know what you Jared.
8:26
I really do feel like I'm a part of it, you know, we get to talk
8:29
to these people, we get to, you know, Real voice.
8:33
I think we're really lucky because there's not a lot of
8:35
giant fandoms in the world, where the people, you know,
8:39
involved in the production of these things are actually so
8:42
close with the fans. Yeah.
8:45
Like, you know, you're not going to see George Lucas, you know,
8:49
doing an interview with, you know, what, Star Wars fan site
8:53
more than likely, you're not going to see Kevin feige, you
8:56
know, doing podcasts with, you know, just a little Marvel fan
8:59
site but the Muppet murmurs and the people behind Sesame Street,
9:03
and Henson and the Muppets at Disney.
9:07
They all seem really intent on connecting with us and keeping
9:10
with us. Yeah.
9:11
So it is nice. It's nice to sort of feel like
9:14
you're part of the bunch, you know?
9:16
I the other thing that I would say is and it's fine because
9:18
this is what I've always said about, you know, the there's
9:21
another area, my life is a phone call fan of the paradise of 1974
9:26
and has continued to grow in a lot of the people.
9:31
I work for with three years have been fans of either Phantom of
9:35
The Paradise or. But one of the things that I
9:38
have said that, like, in this little town Winnipeg where they,
9:42
you know, they're the one place that treated Phantom of The
9:46
Paradise like a monsters here. When, when it was, was basically
9:50
being ignored everywhere else building on that.
9:54
They do a phantom pull, is a, you know, every couple of years
9:57
and all what I told them is that there's there's a huge part of,
10:00
you know, My career that I owe to the devotion of those, those
10:07
Dynamic enemy column fan. At this point, it's like friends
10:11
because what happened is nobody was paying attention to the
10:15
film. So everybody that saw it loved
10:16
it would total somebody or everybody doing that.
10:18
You've got to watch this on. You gotta watch this.
10:20
Don't. So, the fan base screw, you
10:22
know, the, the film was passed on from Dad's to two nephews and
10:29
kids in the life and all of a sudden, Under summary like Edgar
10:33
the right, you know, who is a big fan of Phantom of The
10:37
Paradise or Bugsy Malone, whatever, some of these things
10:40
and all of a sudden, he's reaching out or Guillermo del
10:44
Toro, you know what, you're just finishing up there, you know,
10:47
Pan's Labyrinth, which is, you know, hopefully going to wind up
10:51
on stage. But the people that have hired
10:53
me for some of the things I'm doing now, you know, I even care
10:58
to hear what I'm doing or, you know, whatever based on I'm
11:02
based on things that have alive today because of what you guys
11:06
are doing right now. So this is, this is a real from
11:10
the full set. I just did two years on Goliath
11:12
and the producer of Goliath I walked in his laws trolling.
11:16
I walked in his office Billy Bob Thornton, and I are friends and
11:19
beliefs, and, you know, the producer wants to talk to you
11:21
about a role on this Goliath, I walked into his office.
11:25
And on his wall was a phantom of the paradise, fan of the
11:30
paradise posted, This is my favorite media ever but so it's
11:36
a way to kind of you know, bounce it back at you.
11:38
And say that that the attention that tough pigs and you know,
11:42
and now mindset and and the people through the years that
11:46
are that have loved loved the work of the collective, the
11:51
Muppet collected, which also includes Kenny Asher.
11:53
And I, as you know, as the songwriters are, sometimes just
11:57
like Emma daughter. Just me as a songwriter but
11:59
there's just this This, this large family of my performers.
12:03
No life. We all kind of share in the good
12:07
works. You guys do, right?
12:09
By kind of keeping it alive. You know, you're obsessed,
12:11
totally unhealthy. But we love you.
12:15
I think my therapist says, you know, it's funny you talk about,
12:19
you know, people who found the Phantom of The Paradise, you
12:22
know, whether they were among the few who sought originally or
12:25
they found it much later and like, they're kind of part of
12:27
this. This little Club of No cult
12:32
fans, and I always felt like that was.
12:35
That was a really good descriptor of both Muppet fans
12:38
because there are fewer of us, than our, you know, compared to
12:40
Star Wars or Marvel or whatever it is, as well as like, the
12:43
Muppets themselves. The Muppets of always been kind
12:44
of like these, like, like within the world of the Muppet Show,
12:49
you know, they're kind of failures at what they're doing.
12:52
They're still putting on that show, but like, God, the only
12:54
zombie to see it kind of underdogs a little bit.
12:58
Yeah, exactly. It's an underdog thing and we
13:00
all kind of want to be that Underdog because you get to be
13:03
kind of, you know, King of the Heap when you're an underdog.
13:06
Yeah. And I think part of it too, is
13:08
that it's in some of the things that the Muppets have done, you
13:12
know, the the Jimmy Stewart, you know, every frog that is Kermit
13:17
the Frog. We get to see him doubt himself.
13:20
I mean it's like in you know that there's the I'm going to go
13:23
back there. Someday seen in the desert he's
13:26
off on really going toward himself go and I love keep down
13:29
here. It's recreated in a couple
13:35
places in where he just so the I think one of the, I mean, it
13:41
jumped to Rainbow Connection, but just, and this takes us
13:44
right to get into Rainbow Connection.
13:46
There's, there's a beautiful thing.
13:49
It happens in the song when it starts will Kenny and I wrote
13:52
ourselves into a corner. I think I've told you this story
13:54
before, but Kenny uncertain. And I love hearing it.
13:57
So why are there so many songs about, you know, so we're trying
14:01
It's great. You know, this this I am song
14:03
from Kermit and it's really meaningful to us is we want to
14:07
we want it to be as good as when you wish upon a star.
14:10
That's that's where we set our sights.
14:13
It's kind of sitting in the in this, you know, the swamp on a
14:15
lily pad for not be a lot easier to hide them a lot.
14:20
But but it's like, okay, what what's what's this going to be
14:24
a? What's the situation Jim?
14:26
He said well, he's what's he doing?
14:27
He's got a band to look at. That's Cathy was music and all
14:31
So we sit down to write this song without why are there so
14:33
many songs about rainbows? What's not?
14:35
Because we're all these God. I mean, he's got water.
14:37
He's got, are he's got, you know, he's got rainbows.
14:41
That's what a frog has to know if he has a spiritual life.
14:44
It's because these things appear in the sky, every now, and that
14:48
why are there so many songs about rainbows?
14:50
And what's on the other side, Rainbows are Visions but only
14:53
Illusions, rainbows have nothing to hide.
14:55
Congratulations. We just bought ourselves into a
14:58
corner, but denies all the magic in the rainbow.
15:01
And then what I've always believed is that it is.
15:05
The problem is an opportunity to do something.
15:07
You know, it's knows a gift that were this is at a point where
15:12
all of a sudden we're forced to do something, it is perfect for
15:15
crewman. Each steps away.
15:17
From being the instructor, the teacher, the guy, the podium,
15:20
and he sings. So, we've been told, and some
15:23
choose to believe that I know the Run.
15:25
Other words, he becomes an audience member And that moment
15:28
when Kermit becomes an audience member takes all the leaders
15:31
being it'll be visible or ego-driven leader or, you know,
15:37
that sort of veneer of respect for this character, be keeps me
15:41
from being able to go over and talk his shoulder and your lord
15:44
Jesus, you know, all of a sudden, he's right there sitting
15:47
next to me in the audience. So we've been told in some
15:50
choose to believe it, I know the wrong way, you see someday,
15:53
we'll find it and it's with that, we'll find it.
15:57
He becomes a Seeker like the rest of the audience like you
16:00
guys like all of us and there's no one will that Kenny.
16:05
And I ever thought that through and decided to do it that way,
16:08
you know it just it just came out of us and it was like,
16:13
Jesus, it's pretty good. You know, whoever is up there
16:18
doing this work. We'd like to know, we really
16:21
appreciate it and was we knew who you were.
16:24
We put your name on it too. Life's like the Moon.
16:28
So, you know Rainbow Connection. All right?
16:31
You know you get you get told that you're going to write the
16:35
songs for the first Muppet movie Rainbow Connection in
16:38
particular. What do you told when it comes
16:40
to writing that are you told, you know, we want a song about
16:43
Kermit sort of being a bit wistful and sort of hopeful, or
16:47
are you just told Kim? It needs to sing a song go?
16:50
Yeah, that's it right there. You know, by the time we did it
16:53
with, I had done one of those I've done in my daughter.
16:57
With, with Jim. And, and I mean, the last thing
17:01
I know anything about isn't what it is, Americana music.
17:04
I mean, I just, you know, so you just like, for character and
17:08
you're right for story and for and I think that there's enough,
17:13
there's enough, a muppet in My DNA, whatever that I just, I get
17:19
it. And I get the characters, I get
17:22
their humor and I get there, you know, I get the cinnamon tality,
17:26
I get the The you know the the hope and and you know the
17:31
there's there's as as huge as stars.
17:34
Kermit is a small town swamp in him, you know, small swamp and
17:38
if you know know it's interesting I actually said to
17:43
Jim. I've told this always, people
17:45
say what's it like to work with Jim answered, Miss story.
17:48
That I always tell is that after a meeting at my house in the
17:50
Hollywood Hills but Frank Oz and Jim and And Geri Jewell.
17:57
And Kenny, and I talking about what the basic story was.
18:02
It's a road picture, how the Muppets got together, you know,
18:05
whatever Lala and Walking Jim, these car.
18:10
I mean I just said you know Jim 100 and this is a big deal.
18:13
This is your first feature. We're not going to mess.
18:16
You mess it up this. We're gonna We're Not Gonna
18:19
surprise you. I'll show you what we're working
18:21
on the songs, but the ideas are kind of where we're headed and
18:24
he said, oh Paul, that's okay. Also all here.
18:27
I'm in the studio when we record and it's like wow understand
18:32
that I had you know this was 1979 1976 I did I did a star's
18:39
one with him and you know Barbra Streisand works very differently
18:43
from the when we jumped it. I mean, so there was a
18:45
slaughterhouse lot of input. A lot of solid connectedness
18:49
about showing her what we were working on.
18:50
Along the way we get ideas, every Monday of seemed like we'd
18:54
get ideas and she was spot-on. I mean it was interesting.
18:58
So obviously the success of the film was, it was huge but the
19:04
very totally doing what what I felt about.
19:07
Jim was it Trusted his instincts.
19:11
He trusted that the person that he has to do the job and and you
19:16
know I think Steve Whitmer talks about that you know but that
19:19
collaborative Freedom with you know with with Jim and there's
19:24
long as it was as long as it was true to the characters a muppet
19:27
would say that or a mother wouldn't you know, Kermit would
19:30
say that oh Kermit might might not say that or whatever but but
19:36
so so that's You know, that that's just a freedom to let the
19:40
characters speak to you, let the story speak to, you know, I tell
19:45
the story of writing, the first song for for because Disney
19:49
wanted the first song to be about Scrooge Scrooge.
19:52
Has I am? So I had no idea how to do that,
19:56
but the character spoke to me, you know, so I just, you know,
20:00
since it and went out to the, you know, to a little Park, I
20:03
sat down with him and tape recorder, you know, and I had
20:07
read the script. Can I read the book?
20:09
And it's like, okay, bigamy or whoever's up there?
20:14
Working on this stuff when you get an idea how to do this, let
20:18
me know. And I just basically and I
20:20
again, I tell destroy a lot because it's the he's got a
20:24
great lesson and what I did was I picked up a lost what novel?
20:27
I'm reading a bloody mystery while I'm supposed to be
20:30
writing, Scrooge's on it at a certain point about three pages
20:34
in. I put it down, I went okay, can
20:36
I put the record on? Okay.
20:38
No, he's walking along. We've seen his feet and goes by
20:42
these little characters. They're like they seem to be
20:44
colder, so it's like just a boom.
20:46
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Boom better bum.
20:48
Bum, little tension, are one a Cold Wind.
20:51
Blows it kills, you choose you to the Bone but there's nothing
20:55
in nature. The freezes, your heart like
20:57
years of being alone. Jesus.
21:00
Wow. That's that's really good.
21:02
And I'd like to tell you that. I would that I had set in when
21:05
willing is he's been alone. All these years Everything.
21:08
So that's why I never thought any of that.
21:11
But my unconscious and reached up and grabbed that out of all
21:15
those elements, and I think the lesson in it for all of us, as
21:19
whether we writers, who are artists or or plumbers or
21:23
whatever, you know, I mean, plumbers can be very, very, very
21:27
spiritual and very creative witness console, you know.
21:31
But the fact is that there's great power in turning something
21:35
over and trusting your unconscious and Let Live.
21:38
It your unconscious movie guide you.
21:40
It's it's, you know, I've always said, I do my best work when I'm
21:44
lost, and it's just, and I and that's that's the probably as
21:48
much as I can share with anybody about how to write how to do
21:53
anything. Wrote an affirmation in one at
21:56
one of the book you were talking about your red.
21:59
Gratitude, new trust affirmation.
22:01
I don't know how to do this but something inside me does trust
22:04
that it's inside you God, I just had a I mean talk about, you
22:10
know, mr. Preaching.
22:11
Well anyway, yeah, I'm curious when you know.
22:17
So when you got the, when you got the job to do the Muppet
22:20
movie, you kind of had already had a story that was in.
22:24
So you you kind of had an idea of where the songs would likely
22:28
go. Same with Emma daughter because
22:30
it came from a book. So yeah, definitely where they
22:33
were going to go and definitely Christmas Carol.
22:36
Same reason. So when it came to letters to
22:38
Santa because I know that also came from your own pitch.
22:42
So did you already know what songs like did the songs kind of
22:45
come first in your mind or did you wait until there was a
22:48
script and then you kind of went into songwriting?
22:52
Yeah, I think that I went in and I pitched it with like Like I
22:55
wrote wish they could be Santa Claus and I wrote a think a
22:59
couple things and stand. So, you know, my connection at
23:03
Disney at that time was get wet with, you know, loving section
23:09
of what they actually call them of subsection of Disney at that
23:14
time, was Muppets something, what was it but Studios,
23:17
probably? Yeah, yeah.
23:19
Well yeah, there was a slightly different name, lots of
23:21
something, loving, something at any rate, was it the Muppets
23:24
holding Because I know that wasn't exactly.
23:26
Nope. It's holding a company and yeah
23:28
which means nothing. Exactly.
23:31
Exactly. But, you know, I was friends
23:34
with Kim with Kevin Foley from years years ago.
23:38
Whatever at I think what he was involved in the Parks and all
23:44
but I was just lying in bed. One one day and you know, with
23:50
Mariana we're always going to sleep or just just gotten up or
23:53
whatever I said, Yeah, I got a weird idea.
23:56
I said for the Muppets, he's what I said.
23:58
Well, what if they don't like what I say, you know, it's
24:01
Christmas time and they're going to go mail some stuff and they
24:04
get just screwing around at the post office and they mess up
24:08
everything. And it, you know, it letters are
24:10
flying and everything, and they come back home and they find
24:14
some letters to Santa that that they didn't mean to take her out
24:19
of the post office. But they were stuck at Gonzo's
24:22
backpack, whatever. And there's he's just helping
24:25
this story of how they try to get to to Santa, Claus it to
24:28
deliver the letters and how they fail at it, except they don't
24:32
and So I called, you know, I mean, I wrote, I think about
24:36
maybe two pages and send it to Kevin and to come on, come on
24:41
over. And I don't remember how it's if
24:45
I had outlined anything about the songs and this business
24:48
specifically, but I think I may have, I think that when we
24:53
presented it to the, to the, you know, the big boss at Disney,
24:59
you know, who were green light, a production by, then I had
25:02
written I'm going to go back there and I was younger divided
25:06
written letters to. I wish I could be Santa Claus.
25:10
I think I'd written the post office number.
25:14
Give it up for the folks in Grace and Applause for the
25:16
Postal Service. Well for they could use a little
25:20
low right now because I'm a good boy.
25:23
They did pull off the the vote-by-mail do by God.
25:27
They managed to under the what's right all thanks to your song?
25:30
I think, I think they were all singing is exactly.
25:32
Yeah, exactly. But it was just, you know, it's
25:37
like the interesting thing about about writing for for
25:41
audio-visual, for of other movies or television or the
25:45
state is that that you have characters to be true too, and
25:51
you want to write, you know, instead of trying to let us all
25:54
know, just try to try to get so on for the show and the way to I
25:59
think succeeds is right for you to advance the story.
26:03
And if you can If you can put something in a song that you
26:06
don't need to talk about ever seen that, maybe do a great
26:09
thing. You do an advanced, you know,
26:11
and what's the inner life of the character life?
26:13
What's what's, what's what's what's Gonzo thinking at the
26:18
moment when they can when they can't find their way to San?
26:22
Has to deliver the going to ruin this little girls Christmas, you
26:25
know? And as the words what does he
26:27
want? He wants to be able to take care
26:28
of this little girl. I wish I could be Santa Claus
26:31
for just one day. I'd fill a bag with - and I give
26:35
it all away, but make the world a better place.
26:38
I do that. If I could, I love the way it
26:41
feels inside one. I do something good.
26:45
I mean, it's just it's the story, you know?
26:49
And the humor of all of a sudden, father, you know, I wish
26:52
it could be Santa Claus. Imagine that, although I could
26:56
not fill his boots that I'd look great in his hat.
27:00
I love the milk and cookies and there's one more thing I do.
27:03
I tried And teach the kids to be a little more like you, I mean,
27:06
I love that may be, that may be my favorite song the second or
27:10
third, favorite song, I ever wrote from the for the Muppets
27:14
because it's just, it's on their sleeve about how sweet they are
27:19
and how kind, you know, one size fits all you know, if it's a
27:24
bridge says, you know, we know that love can fill our when
27:28
tears begin to fall. And when we know that love is
27:31
the blessing of the season, the greatest gift Vignette.
27:34
One-size-fits-all, you know, I just you know, every now and
27:38
then you write something that you go.
27:40
Wow. That's going to be a big
27:42
Christmas. So I have never written a big
27:46
Christmas. So I keep going.
27:48
That's the one that's going to bounce out there and be a part
27:51
of everybody's Christmas. No, there's just something maybe
27:55
look at what I'll tell you. For myself, the Muppet
27:59
Christmas, Carol soundtrack is a big part of my Christmas.
28:02
Same here. Yeah.
28:04
So, screw a scrooge is one of my favorite Muppet songs.
28:10
One will seek to Christmas Even Molly and Molly.
28:13
I love. Thank you.
28:15
So so don't worry you. It's a big, it's big in my
28:18
Christmas, it feels like Christmas in.
28:21
My personal opinion is the greatest Christmas song of all
28:25
time. Like, if I'm ever getting
28:26
together a Christmas mix, it feels like Christmas is number
28:29
one on there, every single time. That's, that's the, you know
28:32
what I mean? You should be probably, you
28:35
should be out there working my songs with the make it, you
28:40
know, a lot of, you know, and the thing is that, that I've had
28:44
things that got attention. It's so long after I wrote them
28:48
it just it will Amaze you. And, and it's a, yeah, bits.
28:54
But I'm really proud of all the songs for the Muppet Gods.
28:59
That's because they're just, they're just You know, they're
29:02
there, they belong in a family elbow and I was lucky enough to
29:07
be adopted by enhancing what you've written.
29:11
You know, so many classic songs not just for the Muppets but,
29:15
you know, for Helen Reddy and the Carpenters and stuff like
29:18
that. What is it?
29:20
Do you think though that is making, you know, these songs
29:24
for the Muppets? So Everlasting, like, you find
29:27
that you're talking about them more than you're talking about.
29:30
Say, you're me against the Old or anything like that.
29:33
You know, I think that what those songs have is, is Jim
29:38
Hansen. I think that what those songs
29:41
have is the Manson. I think that there that there
29:44
was a way that Jim Henson made me feel and his creations made
29:48
me feel that that just I mean it just it's it's family, its
29:56
family, I have felt in My DNA. It's just, you know, I'm so So
30:01
touched by those characters, I feel like and I think other
30:06
people would the same. I think that we feel that you
30:10
know that there's those characters are so important to
30:14
us is so well, loved and so well known, there's something that is
30:19
what I was writing about. I knew really well, because I
30:22
monsters fan. This part of being a songwriter.
30:25
If you don't have to give up in the fan card, you know, I can,
30:28
you know, I talked about, you know, You know, standing in a
30:32
room and there Paul McCartney walks in a room or Quincy Jones.
30:35
Like there's a part of me to goes.
30:37
I mean I've known Quincy for 50 years I think you know it when I
30:42
see think Quincy Jones like, oh man, damn, it's Quincy, don't
30:47
know maybe, maybe maybe is maybe it's time for one more selfie,
30:51
you know it's just that. Yeah, that's where I go.
30:54
I never stopped being a fan. That's it's something.
30:58
I've talked about a lot as well, because, you know, I've been
31:01
lucky enough to, you know, be on some Muppet sets here and there
31:04
and do some interviews like this.
31:05
And and I've always obviously, especially those the first, you
31:09
know, five ten years. I was working with tough pigs.
31:12
Always a little nervous when I got to meet these people that I
31:15
considered to be huge celebrities and your self
31:18
included. Of course, when we first met but
31:20
you know, over time it gets a little bit easier every time,
31:24
but there was always a couple people that every time I I see
31:27
him. It made me.
31:28
I completely geek out. It made me very nervous.
31:31
Two people were Frank Oz. I'm completely tongue-tied in
31:36
front of Frank Oz. I can't do it.
31:38
And, you know, unfortunately, he passed away recently but Caroll
31:40
spinney. I was always very.
31:42
Of course, they're both the nicest guys but I had a really
31:45
hard time keeping my cool around Carol, Anne, Frank.
31:50
Yeah, I'm going is to bring the children's television.
31:54
Well, that's right. Yeah.
31:58
See that's that's that level of endearment of, you know, that
32:06
Jim would let you in on what was going on in that you became an
32:09
Insight or do you know because the kids watching that we know
32:12
wouldn't understand what he was talking about.
32:15
But they're that moment. What?
32:16
Big Bird steering? But yeah, I have that same
32:21
thing. I've, you know, and and I can go
32:26
A Year Without Talking to, you know, to today of goals.
32:30
And, and when I get, you know, an email from him or something
32:35
is coming up, and we realize, we're going to have a chance to
32:37
do something, or does something really generous like, you know,
32:40
it's Michael. Michael Cimino, do the thing
32:43
with it with the London Symphony and he had gone toad show up and
32:50
saying. I'm going to go back there
32:51
someday because he was a fan. So there was a they did a thing
32:56
with it. The screen composers and they
33:00
gave an award to Charlie Fox and myself.
33:03
And it was a joint. Even when we both have some
33:07
people show up the last thing I expected was Michael Cimino
33:11
showed up and I that might have been just I think he was
33:14
actually the music director for the evening, but who comes along
33:17
she now? But Dave and Gonzo and it wasn't
33:20
Dave and they and a character that carries with him it was
33:24
Gonzo who's always seems to be followed by day.
33:26
Eve everywhere he goes, and for the, you know, for the amazing
33:36
Muppet, Moffat actors and performers.
33:39
Not the performance, I thought it would be, it's up.
33:42
It just doesn't feel like the even say that.
33:45
It's like to kind of put that, you know, guns are will be
33:50
performed the Night by, you know, I know.
33:52
Now there's Gonzo under they, you know, and I think I told
33:55
tough pigs, man. The I said, if I was talking
33:58
good to the gym and, you know, and and Frank and and they had
34:03
Piggy and Kermit women, there were, you know, there were five
34:06
of us in the conversation, you know, because the piggy would
34:09
say things to me, that Jim would be shocked by and would never
34:13
said, or the Frank would be separately.
34:16
And never say, you know, it's true.
34:19
I mean, we talked about sorry Jim used to talk about how, you
34:24
know, he would be doing interviews and if he's got It on
34:26
his arm, you know, nobody's looking at the guy in the beard.
34:29
Like you know, it's all about permanent and I feel like on a
34:33
different level it's the same for all of us because, you know,
34:37
you know, for Jared and I we are talking about these properties
34:41
that we love were writing commentaries and reviews about
34:43
them, and it's never about us. It's always about the work and I
34:47
think it's the same for you as well.
34:48
Paul, correct me if I'm wrong, but especially when writing for
34:51
the Muppets, it's like, we all should be rightfully, you know,
34:54
giving a lot of gratitude toward you For for creating these
34:57
amazing songs, but it's the Muppets who really brought them
35:00
to life. And yeah, there is our the show.
35:03
Yeah. And they Inspire them one more
35:05
step before them beyond that beyond the fact that they
35:08
deliver them when they're done Inspire them.
35:10
You know they gave me the opportunity to let this love for
35:14
who they are come through, you know.
35:16
So and and the best, you know, I love the songs that came I wrote
35:22
this, all the songs for the Muppet movie, and the other ones
35:27
I've done alone Muppet Christmas, Carol and animal
35:31
life. But but the ones that Kenny
35:34
wrote the music to really, really magnificent Melodies.
35:39
And but yeah, it's kind of being on both sides of it.
35:43
It's like it's the size of what, you know, were performed by them
35:48
and created for the daughter just cure.
35:51
Fan love I guess or friend love. I mean this is this is
35:57
friendship. This is not fandom.
36:00
Yeah, besides tells, you know what's really smart about tough
36:04
pigs. Incidentally, and band mother
36:06
mindset. Is the tell me, please there.
36:13
I mean, and choosing that as you as your bumper sticker, it's
36:17
just don't. It's like, don't don't screw
36:19
with us. You know, wait a minute.
36:20
We ought to have pigs. You know, you want us to come
36:22
out to your house, you know, it's like it's theirs.
36:26
You know, when I was a kid and I don't even know if they'll even
36:30
though, This is, but one of the most fascinating people in the
36:33
world to me, and I was just, I was like, I couldn't get enough
36:38
of him, was was a piano player became an actor, was a huge drug
36:44
addict, can crazy person and Oscar Levant, you know, hospital
36:47
that was, you may know. I don't, I don't think so.
36:49
No, no, check out. Oscar Levant Oscar Levant of you
36:54
if you look at, you know, what is it, Eugene, jinx.
37:00
Well, a movie that takes place in Paris of An American in
37:04
Paris, An American in Paris and then the the do squinting
37:09
smoking all the time. Neurotic piano player, buddy.
37:12
This is Oscar, Levant Oscar, that catch, it was brilliant.
37:18
And I mean I was like 13 and had a local television show up here
37:21
and I'd watch it. And I I knew that what he was
37:24
saying was was was was bizarre and and Brilliant and I didn't
37:30
And then you would, but I got the energy of it and there's an
37:33
energy to uh, no. This is a huge leap.
37:36
Like sometimes, it's exhausting being made, but I love that part
37:46
of me. Still loves effect.
37:47
You called your showed those pigs.
37:49
It's like, don't screw with us. Look, come over there.
37:52
Don't make me. Come back there.
37:54
We we've got opinions and we're not afraid to use them.
37:58
You know? Exactly.
37:59
Exactly. You know.
38:00
And the thing is, you know, that they are based on pure emotion.
38:04
So facts, have nothing to do with this.
38:09
Thank goodness because when we, because people do call us out on
38:12
the fact that he's sometimes, we sometimes tweak the facts a
38:16
little bit to fit our opinions but yeah, whatever.
38:19
It's our website. We're going to whatever we want.
38:20
So wow, so can I ask you pull you talk about, you know, the
38:25
songs from The Muppet Movie can you picture that?
38:30
The where did that song come from?
38:32
Because as if you sort of go through that thing line by line,
38:36
it's just a mixture of sort of nothing that goes together.
38:40
Yeah. So talk about the creation of
38:42
that song, it's light out of the strip that, you know, the they
38:47
paint this and the Brilliance of it.
38:50
And I don't even know if I'd caught that in the script.
38:52
When it, when we wrote the song is, is that this that it would
38:57
eventually pull up in front of a in front of A billboard and the
39:02
universe would conspire to make the lineups perfectly so that
39:07
they could not would not be seen as you know as the truck chasing
39:14
them goes driving or flying right by whatever.
39:19
Okay. Here's I'm 80 years old my that
39:24
means that in the 60s which was the essence of the you know,
39:28
come about the heart of the drug culture beginning whatever I was
39:33
I've really do right in and tried to do it.
39:36
What everybody else was doing and they quit when they hit
39:40
about 28 and I quit when I had 49 I'm 30 years silver, right.
39:45
So so there is, there's this kind of Bebop This kind of Bebop
39:55
hippie hipster that is yes kind of is is the essence of the
40:02
character of dr. Teeth you know and and of course
40:07
Floyd you know and it's just I mean again the song kind of
40:11
comes out who the characters are because you know Floyd, you know
40:15
if dr. Teeth is going to sing a song at
40:18
that moment, whether painting his car.
40:21
It's not going to be young. In the car right now.
40:23
It's going to go slower one, because it's great because it's
40:26
yellow with a red car. Whenever I know he's not going
40:29
to do that, he's gonna go Aurora Borealis shining down on.
40:33
That was, can you picture that and the lesson of the song is
40:37
that what you dwell on you create?
40:38
That's basically my personal philosophy or spiritual
40:42
philosophy is. I believe that what we do only
40:44
created you sit around going on that, you know, I'm not going to
40:50
get the job while you're putting that University going on.
40:53
It's Brandon. I get that job, so I can
40:55
manifest something that is negative or positive.
40:59
And that's what I believe that. That's all of a sudden, turns
41:04
out, turns out. The doctor teeth are members of
41:07
the same church as he just, you know, what's the first line of
41:13
the song? I'll try more, Howard Stars,
41:16
anybody's lover, and everybody. Craziest, anyway, but the the
41:27
heart of the song is in this kind of drugged, you know,
41:32
belief in these colors, kind of mystical Powers.
41:35
You know, fact is there's nothing out there.
41:37
You can't do. Yes, even Santa Claus believes
41:41
in, you take down the rolling down.
41:44
The Walls begin Bureau, behold. So if you get being
41:48
up-and-comer, you better go. Can you picture that?
41:52
Like it's just it's it's as if they write the songs I it's the
41:58
only way I can explain it. It's like the - Channel Through
42:03
you through your pain. Exactly, exactly.
42:06
Now the Eiffel Tower was holding up a flower.
42:08
Can you fix too bad? You know, you know, anybody that
42:13
would write something like that or send something like that.
42:18
Well, because of the Muppets, you no longer have to experience
42:22
psilocybin mushrooms to, you know, to get that the Muppets
42:29
it, expands your spiritual growth and it expands your
42:34
Consciousness just by listening to the song.
42:38
So, the song is, I guess. Kind of musical psilocybin
42:41
musical mushroom. You go.
42:44
I love it music. Musical mushrooms.
42:46
And I gotta tell you to watch these guys, Performing a live up
42:53
in San Francisco, which they did.
42:55
What was that? Like a year ago?
42:57
Couple years ago now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:00
Priya pre-pandemic craziness. I love that.
43:04
You know, I mean, I 16 late 60s was just funny.
43:08
I just finished working on basically two projects and take
43:12
place in 1969, and one of them is is called freak power and
43:16
it's about about 100 Thompson's month for For sure, of in in
43:22
Aspen and it's all archival footage.
43:25
If you get a chance, watch it. It's it's a really interesting
43:30
because it, it is full of footage for like, like the
43:34
Chicago Democratic Convention. You know what?
43:37
Everybody got beat up by the cops and all but there's all
43:41
this stuff is going on in 1969, that is still happening and it's
43:46
it's, you know, as you know, not just sit down and promote. you
43:50
know the things I'm doing now but you know again the carrying
43:57
of the people that have heard the word and sticking to it have
44:01
propelled me forward, you know, I mean I just the new the new
44:04
Portugal demands single, what works Still Portugal to the van
44:11
and Portugal, the Man Fan, check it out for sure.
44:16
It's just, you know, that's I love my life.
44:18
And and my life has been has been handed to me at this point
44:22
you know, which includes 12 years at a scab has really been
44:26
handed to me. We know that the musical
44:28
opportunities that I get today were handed to me by the people
44:33
that love the Muppets and the stuff that they kept.
44:37
Live through the years. It's terrific.
44:39
You were talking earlier about writing songs that helped push
44:43
the the story along and you were interviewed recently about when
44:49
love is gone from Muppet Christmas Carol.
44:53
I don't know how often you revisit that movie, but like,
44:55
does it always like kind of sting a little bit when you get
44:57
to that part of the movie. And suddenly there's something
44:59
missing, like, Rizzo's crying and Scrooge's crying.
45:03
And we don't know why. Yeah.
45:06
And why is it At the end of the movie, you know, during the
45:10
credits I think they put it back in and what it is that the DVD
45:16
release and what it's like you know.
45:18
So so sometimes in there and sometimes it's not well well you
45:24
know that it's a roll of the dice it in half and you know I
45:27
think that the trying to do the right thing sometimes the wrong
45:31
thing is done and I think that was a case you know but by
45:34
Jeffrey what's his name that Ran ran Disney at the time.
45:42
The song is key to this story. It's it's key to what happened
45:46
to Scrooge and what it cost him and why it hardened his heart
45:51
and the performance by, you know, by Michael in that in that
45:59
moment is one of the most beautiful heart-wrenching and
46:05
maybe you know it Several sitting there and watching your
46:09
bail and the younger version of himself.
46:14
Haven't having their that moment where he has made a huge
46:18
mistake. He hasn't paid attention to the
46:21
young love of his life and she's saying it of it, the but was
46:24
gone. There was a time when I was sure
46:27
you and I were truly one that our future was forever and would
46:31
never come undone and we came so close to being close and Do you
46:37
care for me, is distance in your eyes and I so we're not meant to
46:42
be. The love is gone.
46:43
I'll tell you what. I do feel great pride in about
46:46
that song. Is that people feel great pride
46:49
about about that, Melody? I think it's one of the best
46:51
Melodies I ever wrote, and I think it's it's, you know, again
46:56
it's inspired by the, by the story.
46:59
It's a brilliant story and I think that that to have that,
47:03
you know, in Wizard of Oz. Then they cut her head had
47:09
already decided it was out of the picture.
47:12
There was no, it was decided by the head of the studio.
47:15
That kids were not sit, still for somewhere over the rainbow,
47:18
but it's slowed the movie down too much.
47:21
And they big, they are depleted that, you know, they go back and
47:26
forth and about a week before the they wrap the picture or,
47:31
you know, before it was a lockdown on all effects music
47:34
and everything. They put the song back in.
47:39
I always felt that that, that song when love is gone, I didn't
47:43
know that it was going to be a big hit or not, but I knew that
47:47
it was key to the picture to me and the roll of the dice.
47:51
Is that the Jeffrey did what he thought, Jeffrey katzenberg, you
47:55
know. So evidently said, yes and you
47:59
know this is going to be a better movie for the kids with
48:02
without that song. And, you know, it's a choice,
48:05
you made. And, you know, he gets to me
48:08
Jeffrey katzenberg, and I get to be Paul Williams and I respect
48:12
him for doing it. I wish it it.
48:14
I wish they'd put a bath. I think it's at this point.
48:17
It's it's a better picture with the Sonia.
48:22
Probably, you can actually see it.
48:23
Is it on Disney plus, I think it's in the special features of
48:27
gives me plus right. So according to Brian Henson in
48:31
that article that you were quoted in recently, Paul the
48:35
they don't have the original film.
48:37
Reels from that scene, they can't find them.
48:40
There was some really Disney V so they could edit it back into
48:45
the movie, like, it's supposed to be, but the quality will have
48:47
a shift and it won't look. Right, so I'm the on Disney plus
48:51
and on the Blu-ray release. It's only a special feature, you
48:55
have to kind of stop the movie, go to the special feature, watch
48:58
the song, then go back into the movie.
48:59
Which by the way, is what we do. Whenever we watch Muppet
49:02
Christmas Carol, to say, if anyone hasn't heard it Meredith
49:08
Braun whose sang that song? Originally in the movie did a
49:11
re-release of it a couple of years ago and it is gorgeous.
49:15
Yeah, yeah she's she's just stunning in in the film and
49:23
Yeah, it's you know you just have to accept things like that,
49:27
you kind of roll with it. The gift in on, is that is to
49:34
have the most people knew how much it meant to be to have the
49:38
kind of messages that I get. And whether it's on, Is to my
49:44
Instagram account, you know, which is probably Lama to or I
49:48
am Paul Williams the, my Twitter account.
49:52
I don't spend a lot of time on Twitter, but I do on Instagram
49:55
and and to to give the kind of messages that I do and sometimes
50:01
I'll just jump on a, you know, a conversation and just read it
50:06
and see, people, talking about Bill, how crazy they were to
50:08
take that song out and how horrific it is.
50:11
They did that and Bubba. And I just, it's Really touching
50:14
and really meaningful to made it to to see people, you know.
50:19
So passionate as thanks very much you guys are, you know, so
50:24
it's just it's just it's one of the things you live with and and
50:29
and the gift on the other side of it is to see here.
50:31
People are are outraged or really missing in there so I
50:36
love that. Well, and I'm grateful that, you
50:39
know, this song does still exist on the Blu-ray on Disney Plus on
50:44
the DVD and zits on the soundtrack, we can revisit
50:48
whenever we want. Which Speaking of which, you
50:50
know, the last couple of years, this Emma daughter Resurgence
50:54
that we've had, we've been so lucky to have and to actually
50:56
get the Emma daughter soundtrack vinyl.
51:00
Which, for me is like my mind completely exploded.
51:04
What I will say years ago I'm talking like Like 15 years ago,
51:09
Craig Chemin from the Jim Henson company.
51:11
German celebrity, gave me a DVD of like a burned DVD of Emma
51:18
daughter that the Henson Legacy had created that they wanted to
51:22
be the DVD release. But then there were edits and
51:24
they didn't use it, and he had included special features on the
51:28
DVD, which weren't on the the officially released 11 of them,
51:32
was just a slideshow of behind the scenes photos, but behind
51:36
the slide show. Was the soundtrack, all the
51:40
songs in full the extra versus with all the stuff that's at?
51:44
Now, added onto the answer, the, the new record with the
51:48
incidental music with drug during the talent show and like,
51:51
little piano, riff things like that.
51:52
And so I had recorded the whole thing off of DVD, so I can have
51:56
my own version of the soundtrack.
51:58
We worked well for me, but it was, I needed it to be in like
52:02
the great quality version that we would eventually get.
52:05
And of course, like it's always better to share with everybody.
52:07
Eddie. So I'm just super grateful that
52:09
that soundtrack exist. You know what's I have to
52:13
compliment the guys that managed to engineering at that because
52:16
what we were able to find the only thing we could find in
52:20
silly. I just found him in my I have a
52:23
storage unit. I just found what I haven't
52:26
listened to it yet but I found real real of vets core and so
52:31
maybe a much better quality but if that were the only thing we
52:34
had when we released it was I had done.
52:37
For, you know, for the playback, for the mothers to do the lip
52:40
sync, I had a mix with the voices way out way out front and
52:48
the, you know, the piano and the draw, the whole track of
52:52
instrumental music behind it was way, way, way down.
52:56
So it's like you almost couldn't hear, you could hear it just
52:58
enough to be, I think it was maybe had a little bit little
53:02
boost in the drums or something so that they, you know, they
53:05
stay in time and sing the song. And they took that.
53:10
And I mean if you listen to that, what I what I gave them
53:13
and you go, they will they can't really said they can't.
53:16
That you're just not going to be able to fix that to make it make
53:18
it sound like like it's like it's was intentionally mixed,
53:22
you know, the right way, they pulled it off, I think it's
53:25
considered where it came from. They give him a magnificent job,
53:29
you know? So it sounds pretty good,
53:30
doesn't it? I love it, I love it.
53:33
It's I mean, it's a Christmas classic, you know.
53:35
I mean, even it's funny even though the Things aren't
53:38
specifically about Christmas. There's something so innately
53:41
Christmas about it than I just completely.
53:43
I'm in love with it's really I had never seen it.
53:47
I had never seen it up until a couple of years ago, and then
53:49
Joe said to me, you need to watch it.
53:52
You need to watch it now. So I think I just stopped a man.
53:54
All right, I'm gonna watch it's 45 minutes.
53:56
Okay. And then I finished and I think
53:58
the first thing I write was all right.
53:59
I get it a credible. Dirty of Australia.
54:05
I am yeah, I know. Oh my God, fantastic city was so
54:13
Emma. Daughter was pregnant was?
54:15
Well it was simple. It was shown the first time long
54:17
before you were born, but but I wonder if it has an audience
54:21
there in Australia at all, look quite possibly.
54:24
I do I wouldn't be able to tell you, but I'm gonna run through
54:28
the streets of Melbourne, just with a big sign that says, watch
54:31
out of The Jug Band Christmas. We'll probably wind up down
54:38
there as the stage musical, because, yes, we are.
54:42
Now we're supposed to be opening on Broadway and at the new Vic
54:47
theater. And with with Emma daughter, and
54:50
as a full-tilt, you know, Broadway, musical and covid, put
54:57
an end to that. So at this point at this point,
54:59
we're set for 20 21, and I hope that I hope that you know, that
55:04
they just moved the schedule that but It's in and it's got a
55:09
couple of songs and putting the wrote a song called Alice keep
55:13
dreaming, which is for the ghost just saying.
55:17
I don't know. If did you get a chance to see
55:20
it at all Jowan? Yeah, I went up to the Goodspeed
55:24
Opera House. Yeah, I thought it could speed.
55:26
The first of the first year. You guys did it, cuz I need two
55:28
years in a row. And then I saw the 54 Below or
55:34
yeah? Yeah.
55:36
So which which was Advertised as well.
55:39
We're just going to do the songs and I thought, great, I love the
55:42
songs. I'll be there.
55:44
And, and then the show was, I mean, Paul, you were there, but
55:48
like the show was, they brought all the puppets salads.
55:51
They, they're still like, they're reading their basically
55:53
reading the script. It was, it was a like a paired.
55:56
Our first table read the entire play table read basically.
56:00
Yeah, it was, it was much fun. Yeah.
56:05
And, and Maryland so-called came, which was Great.
56:08
Yeah. Yeah.
56:12
Which actually I just met her a few days beforehand.
56:14
And I said, are you going to be at the show?
56:15
And she said, what show and I call you gotta go.
56:18
And so I don't know if I'm going to take credit for making sure
56:21
that she was there. But I'm gonna maybe a, maybe a
56:24
little bit was, but yeah. And I was told introduced to the
56:28
audience as well. Thank you, man.
56:30
That was very cool job. Golf course in your yeah you
56:34
managed to pass that on you know, Michael McDonald and Chris
56:39
could tell he wrote the book based on the show and expanded
56:43
it. You know, we've worked on a
56:45
little bit my life but they've been great and huge fans of the
56:49
show and Chris is, is directing it.
56:53
So it's we're deep in it with the with that.
56:58
So so it's actually good show. It's such a great adaptation.
57:05
Thank you. Well you know it's interesting
57:06
because probably the certain things that will click with
57:10
countries, Bugsy Malone has never been a big big deal here
57:14
in this country but in in England is like that, it's like
57:17
Greece every kid grows, grows up doing the Bugsy Malone to school
57:23
and it's just, you know, but you know, so, you know, you know,
57:26
but I, I spent a lot of time and in, in Australia, Only every two
57:33
years. You know one of my great friends
57:35
there was a iconic broadcaster named John laws laws e.
57:40
Yes. Well and I don't know John John
57:45
John was was really interesting fun generous guy and we did
57:51
drink in those days, you know, that's where I would go to feel
57:54
like this drinking man because I pick up a can of Fosters which
57:57
is about the size of a pony keg. And then go, oh my gosh
58:01
shrinking. The next time you're in
58:07
Melbourne. Look me up and I'll I'll take
58:10
you out for dinner. Well, jump on it.
58:12
Jump on the street car and take it downtown.
58:14
Have a great dinner. I would love that.
58:16
And I'm quite serious if other mine.
58:20
Now, we're sort of, probably take, we take up a lot of your
58:23
time so far before we get to the last part though.
58:26
I do want to say you were, you were a guest on The Muppet Show.
58:30
Yeah, very early on. On.
58:33
I don't even think the Muppet Show had aired yet.
58:34
I know they were having trouble getting guests in that first
58:36
year as well. So how did you become one of the
58:40
early guess you know what? I think.
58:44
Jennifer dancing you about some it's night.
58:46
So I I was I was a time of my life when I was was, you know,
58:50
it's you put down on a couch in it and a camera or I was I was
58:56
as addicted to the attention. I was getting as I was to the
59:00
drugs that could took over and In the later years till I got
59:04
sober. But I think that Jim was was, as
59:09
I understand it was attracted to the seven songs, he liked what I
59:13
wrote, what and and the humor, you know.
59:16
So if they ask her is, if I think the first season that they
59:20
asked me to do, I feel like one of the many to fifth of six
59:24
carry our guests on on the series of the first year.
59:30
And, you know, I, I mean, I walked on the set and I had done
59:33
one of the thing that the wall was in England.
59:38
I also shot a Hudson Brothers down if, you know, who have some
59:41
before, but they have a great songwriters and, and they had a
59:47
show in London at the same time. So, I went over in the bit, the
59:51
Hudson brothers show, and then I did the Muppet The Muppet Show,
59:57
and I think a while I was on the, The Hudson brothers show.
1:00:01
I managed to walk into a wire probably and God knows what kind
1:00:05
of ships actually. You know, I wasn't that bad in
1:00:07
the 70s, the 80s were as one where my addiction run away with
1:00:12
me but I had I have walked into a wire.
1:00:14
So I had a dream the whole time. I was on doing the Hudson
1:00:18
brothers so they had to hide the big mark on my forehead.
1:00:25
It looks like you know, like an L or so if you don't mind.
1:00:29
And I think that when I walked into the, to The Muppet Show, I
1:00:34
don't remember if it was gone or what, but for some reason, we
1:00:39
click around this life and humor and a big mark on my forehead,
1:00:43
which you never, but you can't see in the show, but but we
1:00:48
just, we just clipped. I mean, Jim and I felt, I mean,
1:00:52
I felt like, you know, there's not a word yet for old friends
1:00:55
who just met, that's Jim Hansen, alright?
1:00:58
And and And everybody I mean and it's just you know the the
1:01:03
Muppet performers that are you know, that are alive today and
1:01:05
the ones that are gone. We're just like man.
1:01:08
This is my, this is Mike, my Posse.
1:01:12
I mean, I just, you know, I felt like, I felt like a muppet.
1:01:16
And of course they made. They made two of them to look
1:01:20
like me for, you know, when we sign off, as muffs on it.
1:01:23
Three part harmony. Yeah.
1:01:25
And for years, I had one of those two Muppets.
1:01:28
Foliage is that In my house but but he drank two and a god-awful
1:01:33
so they have to be turned a toast.
1:01:35
Those puppies yeah. Yeah.
1:01:39
It was sitting in a window where the sunlight was sitting at me
1:01:41
cuz you know, it's like Grim Grim business?
1:01:46
Yeah. Wow, it's such a beautiful day.
1:01:51
I just gonna say it was it was the introduction.
1:01:53
The perfect introduction to those guys.
1:01:55
And those methyl characters. How much time was there between
1:02:00
Meeting those guys at the Muppet Show and then Emma daughter, or
1:02:03
at least getting the call about Emma daughter, was it?
1:02:05
But they're pretty close to each other, right?
1:02:07
Right away, right away. And then I think that I'm
1:02:13
remembering right away and you know what, I'd actually have to,
1:02:16
you know, I'm not sure that but I think it was almost
1:02:20
immediately because when did a come out Emma was like 70 Seven
1:02:29
enough to yeah yeah, December 4th 1977 night.
1:02:33
Okay. 77 so I had at that point stars wanted to come, I was out.
1:02:41
I know I went up to the all that incidental music I did with my
1:02:44
Road Band by ever know. All this stuff I did with my
1:02:47
just my road band for Emma daughter and st.
1:02:51
You know, it with so many of the projects, the incidental music
1:02:56
we just cannot have drunk. Footage you know and just and
1:03:00
I've seen the guys what I want them to play and they play it
1:03:02
and play something better. Whatever.
1:03:05
But but so yeah and the big surprise was when he asked me to
1:03:11
do them up and moving because Joe raposo had had had this long
1:03:17
long career with with with Jim writing in our life's not easy
1:03:22
to be greener, great writer, you know, really got it down.
1:03:27
There was there was such that it was just a really solid
1:03:30
connection between between the Muppets and and Repose and I was
1:03:35
I was happily surprised. Yes to do them up and moving and
1:03:40
and I and they the size of it making.
1:03:43
You want somebody to live was really good to write the music.
1:03:46
That's why I asked Kenny Great. And I mean, they obviously made
1:03:51
the perfect choice because not only were those songs for Emma,
1:03:54
not agree, but it's sort of such a great relationship that gave
1:03:58
us all these. I mean, almost, no, I'm not
1:04:00
going to say almost every song that you've written for.
1:04:02
The Muppets has been an absolute classic.
1:04:06
So I'm so grateful for that. And I'm so grateful for all the
1:04:10
work that you've done for them ball.
1:04:12
Well I you know and right back at you because you know you keep
1:04:16
this deal going and keep it alive and keep it fun and it's
1:04:21
who knows how much more of you know opportunities to write and
1:04:26
write for those proof Pals of mine is going to come up but you
1:04:30
know I'd love to think that there's me into something that
1:04:32
we can we can do one more whatever.
1:04:37
You know, it's just you look at your life and you stumble into
1:04:40
the, some of the most amazing things you can't, you couldn't
1:04:43
have plan to, you know, to to you.
1:04:47
I wouldn't know how to plan to the gun to any of those
1:04:50
opportunities but they remained just milestones in my life and
1:04:54
I'm not talking about the Milestones of the exception of
1:05:00
the expand. The acceptance of the songs.
1:05:03
I'm talking about the Milestones of walking under the seat.
1:05:05
If you know, when you're going to hang with with God's o and
1:05:09
and and and and the Gang, you know, the so it's all good.
1:05:14
It's all good. So I'm looking for great.
1:05:16
Yeah. Well we end every podcast hole
1:05:22
with the same questions so I'm going to ask you just some rapid
1:05:26
fire questions. Yeah.
1:05:27
First thing that comes to your head, question 1.
1:05:30
What is your favorite TV show? Cantaloupe no rhythm out there
1:05:33
have been estimates. Favorite food was my favorite.
1:05:38
I love that show. Kill it.
1:05:40
You know what? Right now, I'm in the midst of
1:05:41
this whole thing politically and and whatever the likes right
1:05:44
now, it's Rachel, Maddow, would you rather be able to fly or
1:05:51
become invisible? Fly always like you know
1:05:55
invisible. I you know I know how it feels
1:05:57
to be invisible. I was out of work actor in
1:06:01
Hollywood. I'd much rather be able to fly a
1:06:03
new kind of light, surrounds us all.
1:06:05
And if we could all be fine, I've always felt the deep
1:06:09
inside. We're trying were trying that's
1:06:13
from something I did with Michelle, colombier called
1:06:17
Wings. So it was before the group went
1:06:20
in so long time ago. But yeah, I just when you throw
1:06:26
yourself out of control, you feel like you're flying until
1:06:30
you open your parachute. You don't feel like you're
1:06:32
falling. You feel like you're flying.
1:06:34
It's Fantastical. Glazing is super food or a
1:06:38
drink. Is worth saying again, is soup a
1:06:42
food or a drink since the food when you write a drawing up a
1:06:48
dream, what is it when you do it wrong?
1:06:50
I'll tell you I'll tell you why it is not a drink because a
1:06:54
drink you know, a drink can be dangerous.
1:06:57
Super cabs. All right, good choice, good
1:07:01
fair enough. If a tree falls in a forest and
1:07:03
no one's around to hear it. Does it make a sound?
1:07:07
Only if you're in the lumber business.
1:07:10
I thought this was awesome. Now.
1:07:13
I enjoyed it though. This was asked by a loss.
1:07:16
Guess, Stephanie Street, property, Stacy golden in just a
1:07:20
few words, what was the Crux in your life that led you to where
1:07:24
you are right now? She has two very big question
1:07:28
for this rabbit so we're going to get you to condense the
1:07:32
answer. So the Crux the Crux in your
1:07:37
life that led you to where you are right now.
1:07:43
My failure at. The failure that made me
1:07:48
available for the opportunities that come up, the fact that I'm
1:07:51
so good at not getting the job. I'm trying to get.
1:07:53
So I'm sitting at home when the phone rings and I'm get and I
1:07:56
get the job that I should be doing.
1:07:58
I think that that, you know, my picker has not, you know, has
1:08:02
has not been the best and and and realism is a place to know
1:08:08
that I visit with. Can't put my toe in the water or
1:08:12
whatever. But the fact is when I didn't
1:08:15
get the career, I wanted as an actor I got it.
1:08:17
I was led to what I can do and what I love to do that's why
1:08:20
songs and that led to other opportunities to act in the like
1:08:24
and all. But no is a gift if you if you
1:08:27
know, if you got your heart set on something, you don't get it,
1:08:31
if you take the mindset that wow.
1:08:35
So what's this? This is making me a real wolf or
1:08:37
something. Why shouldn't it be something
1:08:40
wonderful? If you have that mindset,
1:08:43
there's a Pretty good chance that the eventually you create
1:08:46
an energy around a brand your life, you know, week there is no
1:08:49
as, you know, at this point. I mean, if it's the roof fell on
1:08:54
me right now, I was gone while I'm talking to you.
1:08:58
I've had an amazing life. I want another 20 years, but the
1:09:01
fact is, if within a minute, it was over at a fantastic life,
1:09:06
and most of it has come to me because I didn't get something,
1:09:09
I wanted it would have made me unavailable.
1:09:14
Good answer the true. I mean, it was it was a big
1:09:18
question as well and give you condense that answer nicely
1:09:21
because I feel like we could have spoken about that for an
1:09:22
hour. Yeah.
1:09:24
And finally, without knowing who it is, what question would you
1:09:28
like our next guest to answer and that's guest should answer.
1:09:36
You think you're taking enough time to thank the people that
1:09:40
have helped you get where you are.
1:09:43
Beautiful. That is such a great question.
1:09:47
Is a great show is great to do with you guys.
1:09:50
So it's really a pleasure to see you again.
1:09:52
Judd fantastic. You know we make you fit in, we
1:09:57
need to hang out sometime, we do please.
1:10:01
I think this is going to sound silly and but thank you for
1:10:07
Rainbow Connection and I know that sounds silly now you've
1:10:09
done so much, but that is my favorite song of all time.
1:10:13
This is going to sound morbid and I'll probably take it out of
1:10:16
the podcast. But you know, when my time on
1:10:19
this Earth is gone, I've said I only want two songs played at my
1:10:22
funeral and one of them is Rainbow Connection well because
1:10:26
it is my absolute favorite song of all time.
1:10:29
Okay, I have to ask what's the other one.
1:10:32
The other one is You Can Call Me Al by Paul Simon.
1:10:37
I figured I need a fun one as well.
1:10:39
That's fantastic. I promise I'll come to the
1:10:41
funeral and I'll sing it. You want me to do?
1:10:44
Excellent. I mean, I kind of hope that
1:10:46
doesn't happen, but that actually is, I know, it won't
1:10:52
happen. All because you're young man.
1:10:54
And I'm and I'm, you know, there's every known position
1:10:57
shadow in the room. Wait a minute, not yet.
1:11:00
Not yet. Get out.
1:11:07
Is, you know, my wife and I were talking about it this morning.
1:11:10
I mentioned I was was going to be with you guys today and
1:11:13
talking about Rainbow Connection and and she said, just it's it's
1:11:17
the song that you wrote the it has gone, the furthest Inland
1:11:23
into the deepest places and that, you know, that you maybe
1:11:27
never suspect that you would, you would be able to touch
1:11:30
people with your work and so beyond grateful, and I really
1:11:34
appreciate that.