Latest / Credlin / Credlin | 1 September

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Credlin | 1 September · Credlin

0:01
Speaker 1: Peter Credlin, live from News 24.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
0:10
Speaker 2: tonight on Credlin. Tonight, the latest housing data, which shows
0:13
Speaker 2: a freefall in house prices across Australia. Sydney on track
0:17
Speaker 2: for its most significant decline in 40 years. 40,000 wiped
0:22
Speaker 2: off house values this winter on average. More tonight, too,
0:27
Speaker 2: on my News 24 exclusive from yesterday. Just why that
0:31
Speaker 2: former AFP whistleblower has not been called as a witness
0:34
Speaker 2: to the Bondi Royal Commission, despite sharing bombshell claims of
0:38
Speaker 2: critical capability pressure inside the counter-terrorism unit in the lead-up
0:44
Speaker 2: to the Bondi terror attack. Plus, Labor's plan to put
0:47
Speaker 2: criminal road gangs to work. You heard me right. Prisoners
0:50
Speaker 2: used to fix ruined roads this summer in Victoria as
0:53
Speaker 2: part of a half-a-million pledge to fill half-a-million potholes. And
1:00
Speaker 2: the PM attends a Pacific Islands forum, but quick to
1:03
Speaker 2: sit on the diplomatic fence as China ramps up pressure
1:06
Speaker 2: on Pacific nations to try and stop them from attending.
1:11
Speaker 3: It is a well-attended meeting of the Pacific Islands forum
1:16
Speaker 3: and I don't think it's productive to talk it down.
1:19
Speaker 3: I'm talking it up.
1:22
Speaker 2: Weak, weak, weak again, Albanese. I'll come back to that
1:25
Speaker 2: in a moment. But first, I want to go back
1:27
Speaker 2: to the revelations I brought you last night. that prior
1:31
Speaker 2: to the Bondi massacre, a senior federal police commander co-authored
1:35
Speaker 2: an internal brief that went to the executive warning of
1:39
Speaker 2: critical capability shortages in the AFP's counter-terrorism command. In particular...
1:46
Speaker 2: a 38% reduction in counter-terrorism capability in New South Wales,
1:52
Speaker 2: which on the face of it appears highly relevant to
1:55
Speaker 2: the massacre at Bondi the following year. There's been talk,
1:59
Speaker 2: of course, about this memo for months and months. It's
2:01
Speaker 2: been reported in the newspapers and it's been the subject
2:04
Speaker 2: of heated debate inside Senate estimates. First, its existence was denied.
2:10
Speaker 2: Then we were told it was just an HR document.
2:13
Speaker 2: Then there was a dispute about who actually saw it
2:16
Speaker 2: and how high it went up the federal police chain
2:19
Speaker 2: of command until eventually it was blocked from release under
2:24
Speaker 2: FOI under the basis it was highly prejudicial to national
2:28
Speaker 2: security if it ever was to see the light of day. Now, obviously,
2:33
Speaker 2: it can't be all of those things. It can't be
2:36
Speaker 2: low level and unimportant one day. and then highly prejudicial
2:40
Speaker 2: to national security the next. Australians deserve to know why
2:45
Speaker 2: this desperate plea for counter-terrorism resources was not listened to
2:51
Speaker 2: by AFP command. Australians deserve to know What hand the
2:56
Speaker 2: Albanese government had in the under-resourcing of the AFP, given
3:01
Speaker 2: this memo also references a decision by the Albanese cabinet
3:06
Speaker 2: via NSC to prohibit the AFP from putting in a
3:11
Speaker 2: bid for extra money. Right now, we have a Royal
3:15
Speaker 2: Commission underway into the Bondi attack and we owe it
3:18
Speaker 2: to the dead and every other Australian who wants to
3:21
Speaker 2: live in a country free from terrorism and to get
3:24
Speaker 2: to the bottom of what happened that fateful day, to
3:27
Speaker 2: be open and honest about admitting failures, and to be
3:30
Speaker 2: determined to do whatever's needed to better protect all of
3:34
Speaker 2: us into the future. This is why a transparent investigation
3:39
Speaker 2: into this whistleblower submission matters as much as it does.
3:43
Speaker 2: Because right now, it looks as though officialdom is trying
3:48
Speaker 2: to bury it. There is no doubt that the author
3:50
Speaker 2: of this memo should have been called to give evidence
3:53
Speaker 2: before the Royal Commission shut down public hearings last week.
3:58
Speaker 2: But that did not happen, despite this former police officer
4:02
Speaker 2: personally contacting the Commission dozens and dozens of times, asking
4:08
Speaker 2: them to let him tell them what he knows. Even
4:13
Speaker 2: after submitting his 25-page long submission, including a long list
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Speaker 2: of AFP documents that he says the Commission ought to
4:22
Speaker 2: compel so that they can best understand where things were
4:26
Speaker 2: prior to Bondi, this former counter-terrorism commander has not been called. Now,
4:34
Speaker 2: it's madness that he's not been called, given his operational
4:37
Speaker 2: understanding of counter-terrorism deficiencies But it's also madness that the
4:42
Speaker 2: head of the AFP, well, she has never fronted either. Now,
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Speaker 2: how can you have a credible Royal Commission into the
4:49
Speaker 2: massacre of 15 people in an act of terror on
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Speaker 2: an Australian beach and not call the head of the
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Speaker 2: Australian Federal Police? And it's not just Chrissie Barrett who
5:00
Speaker 2: must give evidence. Where is the head of the New
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Speaker 2: South Wales Police, Mel Lanyon? He hasn't been called in
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Speaker 2: public hearings either. As I've said before, countless royal commissions
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Speaker 2: in the past have rightly put politicians in the witness
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Speaker 2: box because under our system of government, they are the
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Speaker 2: ultimate authorities under law for the portfolios they administer. In
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Speaker 2: terms of this, look, Kevin Rudd twice before a royal commission,
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Speaker 2: John Howard once, Malcolm Turnbull once, Scott Morrison once, Ministers
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Speaker 2: Peter Garridan, Mark Arbib, Christian Porter, Alan Tudge. Maurice Payne,
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Speaker 2: Stuart Robert. I could go on. All the PMs and
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Speaker 2: ministers before called before various royal commissions to give evidence
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Speaker 2: into what they knew and what they did in matters
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Speaker 2: of national significance. And yet when it comes to Australia's
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Speaker 2: worst ever terror attack, not one minister in the Albanese
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Speaker 2: government has been called before this royal commission to give
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Speaker 2: an account of what they knew, what they did and
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Speaker 2: what they failed to do. The more I have dug
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Speaker 2: into this issue, the more concerned I have become. I
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Speaker 2: don't think, as a former High Court judge, that Virginia Bell,
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Speaker 2: sitting as a solo commissioner, has enough understanding of the
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Speaker 2: national security apparatus and the labyrinth world of Canberra departmental
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Speaker 2: bureaucracy to do justice to the gravity of the terms
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Speaker 2: of references before her. I just don't. Now, this is
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Speaker 2: not a reflection on her obvious intellect or her superior
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Speaker 2: legal standing, that much is given. But she's being asked
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Speaker 2: to investigate a beast that she does not understand and
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Speaker 2: has no experience of. And both understanding and experience is
6:51
Speaker 2: critical to get to the bottom of what happened in
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Speaker 2: December last year and to prevent it from happening again. Now,
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Speaker 2: I appreciate critics will say I'm wrong, but there's a
7:01
Speaker 2: report from the eminent government insider, Dennis Richardson, that deals
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Speaker 2: with the national security elements of Bondi. But I think
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Speaker 2: a few things here have been missed. The first is
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Speaker 2: that Dennis Richardson did not act and was not acting
7:17
Speaker 2: with the powers of a Royal Commissioner. That's right. Dennis
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Speaker 2: Richardson's work had the status of an administrative inquiry under
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Speaker 2: the auspices of Prime Minister and Cabinet, and it lacked
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Speaker 2: the ability to issue warrants for the production of materials,
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Speaker 2: and subpoenas for the appearance of witnesses. It also did
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Speaker 2: not have the immunity powers of a Royal Commission. Therefore,
7:41
Speaker 2: cooperation by anyone with Richardson was merely voluntary. And this
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Speaker 2: is because Richardson was announced by the Prime Minister and
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Speaker 2: put in place before Albanese was ultimately pushed into a
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Speaker 2: Royal Commission. So Richardson's admin inquiry in Bell's Royal Commission
8:01
Speaker 2: crossed over. but they are not the same thing and
8:04
Speaker 2: should never be confused. When it was done, Richardson's work
8:08
Speaker 2: went to the Prime Minister and that was then provided
8:10
Speaker 2: to the Royal Commissioner to feed into what ultimately became
8:14
Speaker 2: her interim report. Again, I don't think this is sufficient
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Speaker 2: at all. The interrogation of the heads of official agencies
8:22
Speaker 2: like ASIO, like the Australian Federal Police, the heads of
8:26
Speaker 2: departments of Home Affairs, Attorneys General, attorneys general, of course,
8:30
Speaker 2: which was for a time responsible for the AFP, all
8:34
Speaker 2: the senior ministers of these portfolios and the prime minister too, well,
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Speaker 2: they should all have been interrogated under the formal umbrella
8:44
Speaker 2: of the Royal Commission's Act. Now, other than the ASIO boss,
8:49
Speaker 2: Mike Burgess, we've not seen the AFP boss before the
8:53
Speaker 2: Royal Commission publicly or any minister called to give public evidence. Now,
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Speaker 2: this must happen in order to restore the faith of
9:01
Speaker 2: the community that this Royal Commission really will be as
9:04
Speaker 2: comprehensive as Australians deserve. Now, I accept that there would
9:10
Speaker 2: be elements of testimony from all of these people that
9:14
Speaker 2: might have to be given in camera, so privately. I
9:17
Speaker 2: accept that. And that some of them may already have
9:20
Speaker 2: done this, but by and large, given it was ordinary
9:24
Speaker 2: Australians gunned down on that summer's day last year, Well,
9:28
Speaker 2: then ordinary Australians deserve proximity to the truth. They deserve
9:32
Speaker 2: to hear as much of this testimony in public as possible.
9:37
Speaker 2: We deserve a proper examination of whether leftist ideology of
9:42
Speaker 2: the Albanese government had a bearing on how Bondi unfolded.
9:46
Speaker 2: For example, did decisions by the Albanese government ministers to
9:50
Speaker 2: demand a greater focus on white supremacists shift resourcing of
9:55
Speaker 2: the much larger threat of Islamist extremism, did that cause
10:00
Speaker 2: capability gaps? Were things missed that should not have been
10:04
Speaker 2: missed as a result? As reported in the Australian newspaper today,
10:09
Speaker 2: there were concerns in the AFP's counter-terrorism area that suspected
10:13
Speaker 2: terrorist sympathisers outnumbered the officers monitoring them at least 20
10:17
Speaker 2: to 1. 20 to 1. I mean, this is why
10:22
Speaker 2: a proper interrogation of the Royal Commission staffing, a proper
10:27
Speaker 2: interrogation by the Royal Commission of staffing, of funding, of
10:31
Speaker 2: operational decisions and critically ministerial decisions, decisions of government, this
10:38
Speaker 2: is why they matter as much as they do. And
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Speaker 2: here's the last point I want to make. As it
10:43
Speaker 2: stands for our worst ever terror attack, This will be
10:48
Speaker 2: one of our shortest ever Royal Commissions. Now that doesn't
10:52
Speaker 2: stack up. Once this Royal Commission concludes, there will not
10:56
Speaker 2: be another one. We will not have the opportunity we
11:00
Speaker 2: have now to revisit terrorism at Bondi in the same way.
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Speaker 2: It's therefore incumbent on the Royal Commissioner to seek an
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Speaker 2: extension to her term and for public hearings to be reopened.
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a complete farce that the head of
11:17
Speaker 2: Netball Australia has given public evidence to this Royal Commission,
11:20
Speaker 2: but not the head of the Australian Federal Police. And
11:23
Speaker 2: when the only senior AFP officer to front the Royal
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Speaker 2: Commission is in and out of the witness box in
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Speaker 2: 38 minutes flat, well, you've got to ask what the
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Speaker 2: heck is going on. How serious are we about getting
11:37
Speaker 2: to the bottom of what went wrong that terrible, terrible day? Now,
11:43
Speaker 2: I know the game being played here politically. Virginia Bell
11:47
Speaker 2: will hand her Royal Commissioner's report to the Governor-General on
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Speaker 2: Friday the 18th of December. And then the Prime Minister
11:54
Speaker 2: will pop up, ever so briefly, just back from the
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Speaker 2: G20 meeting in Miami a day earlier, and he'll say, well,
12:02
Speaker 2: thanks for the question, I haven't had a chance to
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Speaker 2: read the report yet, but we'll consider it carefully. And
12:07
Speaker 2: then it'll be off to the Christmas break, hoping that
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Speaker 2: by the time Parliament resumes in February, this will all
12:14
Speaker 2: have been washed away. And for what? Police and intelligence agencies, well,
12:19
Speaker 2: they won't be any better resourced. The threat of radical Islam, well,
12:23
Speaker 2: it won't have gone away. Australians will not be any safer.
12:28
Speaker 2: This is just not good enough. Well, let's go to
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Speaker 2: Canberra for the headlines. Political reporter Ruben Spargo.
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Speaker 4: Good evening.
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Speaker 5: The Prime Minister is pushing back against warnings from China
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Speaker 5: of consequences over Taiwan's inclusion in the Pacific Islands Forum.
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Speaker 5: Beijing's envoy is not clarifying what those so-called consequences could be.
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Speaker 5: Several regional leaders have also pulled out of the meeting
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Speaker 5: in Palau at the 11th hour.
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Speaker 3: The Pacific Islands Forum determines what happens here, not any
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Speaker 3: other country.
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Speaker 5: Climate change, regional security and transnational crime are the key
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Speaker 5: issues on the agenda today. at the forum this week.
13:11
Speaker 5: Australian property prices have fallen for the fifth consecutive month
13:14
Speaker 5: as high interest rates and the federal government's tax changes
13:18
Speaker 5: impact the market. Sydney could be on track for an
13:21
Speaker 5: almost 20% price correction over the year if current trends
13:25
Speaker 5: continue according to Cotality.
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Speaker 6: This is not the way to get young Australians into
13:30
Speaker 6: a home.
13:31
Speaker 4: We need to build more houses.
13:32
Speaker 6: We need to have a migration policy that's aligned with
13:36
Speaker 6: our housing supply.
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Speaker 5: Housing values are expected to keep falling, particularly if the
13:40
Speaker 5: Reserve Bank raises interest rates again. Treasury is warning Australia
13:45
Speaker 5: risks missing out on the AI boom unless businesses embrace
13:49
Speaker 5: the technology. Fewer than one in 10 businesses say they
13:52
Speaker 5: have significantly adopted artificial intelligence. A Treasury report is also
13:57
Speaker 5: warning AI could put further pressure on an already constrained economy,
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Speaker 5: pushing up inflation and potentially interest rates.
14:07
Speaker 2: All right, let's jump into what's making news out of
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Speaker 2: Canberra and those reports today. But yet another Pacific leader
14:13
Speaker 2: has pulled out of what is now a very diminished
14:15
Speaker 2: Pacific Islands forum. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is there, but
14:20
Speaker 2: Fiji is not. There's no Vanuatu. And due to, we're told,
14:24
Speaker 2: the heavy hand of China, no longer is the Solomon
14:27
Speaker 2: Islands represented. Here to discuss this and more, News24 political
14:31
Speaker 2: editor Andrew Clennell. Andrew, the PM tried today to brush
14:35
Speaker 2: off those comments that China was pressuring Pacific nations not
14:39
Speaker 2: to attend, but this threat's real. The Solomon Islands, of course,
14:42
Speaker 2: was due to be there. The leader left. He's now
14:46
Speaker 2: facing a no-confidence motion by one of his pro-China opponents.
14:50
Speaker 2: But the PM, you know, he still can't bring himself
14:53
Speaker 2: to call out China's influence anywhere locally, can he?
15:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, he was in Fiji with that Chinese missile
15:03
Speaker 6: test and expressed concern on that. But we can all
15:06
Speaker 6: see the forum's turning into a farce. So why not,
15:10
Speaker 6: you know, confront the truth, basically? I mean, you should
15:14
Speaker 6: make comments saying that it's a concern if influence is
15:17
Speaker 6: being brought to bear. Look, there are diplomatic considerations always
15:21
Speaker 6: in terms of offending various Pacific leaders. But given half
15:25
Speaker 6: the Pacific leaders aren't there, may as well just tell
15:28
Speaker 6: people how it is. I think it's a pretty disturbing development. Obviously,
15:33
Speaker 6: Palau fired things up by inviting the Taiwanese. And, you know,
15:39
Speaker 6: the worrying thing for us is it looks like the
15:41
Speaker 6: Pacific leaders are now concerned about annoying China by attending.
15:46
Speaker 6: That's what it looks like because Taiwan's invited. And that's
15:50
Speaker 6: really worrying because what else are they doing for China
15:52
Speaker 6: because they're scared of them?
15:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look at the money we're pumping into the region.
15:58
Speaker 2: I mean, we literally are putting billions and billions of
16:00
Speaker 2: dollars into our region. And the message from Penny Wong
16:04
Speaker 2: and Anthony Albanese is we must do this to secure
16:06
Speaker 2: our region, to keep it out of the clutches of China.
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Speaker 2: It doesn't look like it's working.
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Speaker 6: Well, Maurice Payne hardly ever visited the joint, so they've
16:15
Speaker 6: done better than that.
16:16
Speaker 7: But I agree that.
16:20
Speaker 6: You'd expect more bang for your buck. The thing is,
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Speaker 6: it's a competition with China. China are putting plenty in.
16:25
Speaker 6: I mean, it really feels like the whole thing's on
16:28
Speaker 6: tenor hooks and there are no guarantees for Australia.
16:33
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what is another shocker in terms of money.
16:35
Speaker 2: What about Chris Bowen's Fiji COP31 side hustle? This is
16:40
Speaker 2: one of the preliminary meetings. He's chairing it. It's in Fiji. Basically,
16:45
Speaker 2: everyone who's been invited is saying thanks, but no thanks.
16:48
Speaker 2: And I want people to understand this is not Fiji's
16:51
Speaker 2: summit per se. It might be located in Fiji, but
16:54
Speaker 2: poor old Australian taxpayers are ponying up for this and
16:58
Speaker 2: it's a no-show.
17:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think they've said things like people
17:01
Speaker 6: are going to pay us back when they come, but
17:03
Speaker 6: if they don't come, we don't get paid back. And, look,
17:08
Speaker 6: I think it shows once you don't get that summit
17:11
Speaker 6: in Adelaide that they were after.
17:14
Speaker 6: I just don't see how worthwhile this is to Australia. Now,
17:17
Speaker 6: they will say this helps with Pacific diplomacy, for example,
17:20
Speaker 6: which we were talking about. But I feel that the
17:28
Speaker 6: Prime Minister's now got to go to Turkey as well,
17:30
Speaker 6: to COP, because we've got this sort of vice president
17:35
Speaker 6: type role, whatever that is. And I'm not sure the
17:38
Speaker 6: Prime Minister need go to COP. He's got a lot
17:40
Speaker 6: of travel at the back end of the year.
17:42
Speaker 4: So....
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Speaker 6: It's all extra cost and where does it get us?
17:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about this because I want to make
17:52
Speaker 2: it clear to people at home, of course, there's a
17:53
Speaker 2: summit season. That's what Andrew's referring to there. It's a
17:57
Speaker 2: lot of international travel. You can send other ministers. The
18:00
Speaker 2: Prime Minister doesn't have to go to all of it.
18:03
Speaker 2: This bloke loves the front end of the plane. Of course,
18:05
Speaker 2: he will be there, but he's got fires burning at home.
18:08
Speaker 2: You and I... looked at this by-election on the weekend
18:12
Speaker 2: last week. Before it happened, you said that One Nation
18:14
Speaker 2: would comfortably win, will you? A right big swing in
18:18
Speaker 2: a safe Labor seat. They now have a lower house
18:20
Speaker 2: seat in the WA Parliament. Games on, of course, in
18:23
Speaker 2: Victoria and New South Wales. I'm told the big game
18:27
Speaker 2: for them is New South Wales, not so much Victoria.
18:30
Speaker 2: But Pauline's splitting plenty of time in Victoria. The numbers
18:34
Speaker 2: are still healthy in Victoria. And yet Labor's sort of
18:37
Speaker 2: pretending that this is not happening to them, it's only
18:40
Speaker 2: happening to the coalition. Well, Sacred Harbour tells you otherwise.
18:45
Speaker 6: I still think the ultimate game is to control every
18:48
Speaker 6: upper house in the country. And I can't see why
18:50
Speaker 6: they don't end up doing that, including the Senate. I mean, look,
18:55
Speaker 6: I mean, anything could happen downstairs. Don't get me wrong.
18:59
Speaker 6: I mean, they could develop very big presences in lower houses.
19:04
Speaker 6: But if you look at the vote, whether it be
19:06
Speaker 6: in Victoria, I'm not as au fait with the Victorian system.
19:09
Speaker 7: You'd know more than me.
19:10
Speaker 6: But somewhere like New South Wales, even though it's always
19:13
Speaker 6: a half house election like the Senate, the Senate, the
19:17
Speaker 6: Legislative Council in Western Australia. Why can't they, certainly Queensland, well,
19:23
Speaker 6: Queensland's one house, actually, now that I think about it. But, look,
19:26
Speaker 6: these other places, why wouldn't they get the balance of
19:30
Speaker 6: power with 20% to 30% of the vote? I mean,
19:33
Speaker 6: they'd probably get a bigger vote upstairs. I think we'll
19:36
Speaker 6: end up, you know, no matter what happens at the election,
19:39
Speaker 6: even if Labor were to fall into power at the
19:41
Speaker 6: next election, minority or slight majority... and lose, say, 15,
19:45
Speaker 6: 20 seats, which I can see happening because their margin
19:48
Speaker 6: is so big, they're going to have a Senate where
19:52
Speaker 6: basically they're going to have to work with the coalition
19:54
Speaker 6: like never before because their alternative will be one nation
19:57
Speaker 6: who are even further to the right. So I think
20:00
Speaker 6: that's a really a thing that people are sort of
20:03
Speaker 6: missing here because we're focusing on the New South Wales leader,
20:06
Speaker 6: the Victorian leader, One Nation being competitive in the House
20:09
Speaker 6: of Representatives. Think about the upper house implications of that
20:14
Speaker 6: and how much power you have with the balance of
20:17
Speaker 6: power in the upper house.
20:20
Speaker 4: All right.
20:20
Speaker 2: Well, talk to me because they have power provided they
20:23
Speaker 2: keep all their MPs. Talk to me about David Farley.
20:27
Speaker 2: Lots of rumours that he's getting a bit cranky, that
20:30
Speaker 2: he's talking about going independent. He's got an ego he
20:33
Speaker 2: can't jump over. That doesn't surprise me that there is
20:35
Speaker 2: talk he would go independent. Barnaby Joyce says, well, this
20:38
Speaker 2: is not going to happen. Give me your take.
20:40
Speaker 6: Well, I think he will go independent, but I don't
20:42
Speaker 6: think it's of much consequence because he doesn't really have
20:46
Speaker 6: a presence in the House at the moment and ultimately
20:50
Speaker 6: they're going to win a lot more than one or
20:52
Speaker 6: two House of Representatives seats. So, you know, he'd just
20:57
Speaker 6: be the forgotten man if he went independent, frankly.
21:01
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to play for my viewers, Annika Wells.
21:04
Speaker 2: Of course, she's the minister for fun and fun times
21:08
Speaker 2: who had her wings clipped because of the way she
21:11
Speaker 2: was using her entitlements. She's gone out there and used
21:14
Speaker 2: these Oshies. I mean, parents will know what they are.
21:17
Speaker 2: They get sold at supermarkets.
21:18
Speaker 4: Oshies.
21:19
Speaker 2: There you go. sold at supermarkets, kids love them, they're traded, etc.
21:24
Speaker 2: She uses them to try and spruik Labor's budget reforms.
21:28
Speaker 2: Have a look.
21:29
Speaker 8: What do these guys and the Australian housing market have
21:32
Speaker 8: in common? Both the ushy market and the Australian housing
21:35
Speaker 8: market are dictated by supply and demand. The problem right
21:38
Speaker 8: now is that supply of ushies and supply of housing
21:40
Speaker 8: is not keeping.
21:41
Speaker 2: Pace with demand. Can you believe she's in charge of
21:45
Speaker 2: a budget worth billions?
21:48
Speaker 6: Our news director here, Elise Holman, who has younger kids
21:51
Speaker 6: than me, Peter, informed me that Ooshies are free from
21:53
Speaker 6: Woolies if you spend a certain amount. So they're not
21:55
Speaker 6: even an equivalent type comparison, are they? Because houses cost money. But,
22:01
Speaker 6: I mean, look, I think that this is just, I mean,
22:05
Speaker 6: I just, I mean, I've just got to watch my
22:09
Speaker 6: words here because I don't want to be really, really unkind.
22:13
Speaker 6: But I think, well, I've kind of said it, yes,
22:15
Speaker 6: I think Annika's lost the plot.
22:17
Speaker 7: How about that?
22:18
Speaker 4: I mean, she's lost the plot. I mean, who does that?
22:20
Speaker 6: Not only has she lost the plot, and you've stopped
22:23
Speaker 6: enough politicians doing really stupid things, her staff have clearly
22:27
Speaker 6: lost the plot. Because who's ticking off on that? Who's going,
22:31
Speaker 6: that's a good idea?
22:32
Speaker 2: Mate, I didn't get them all. I didn't get Abbott's onion.
22:34
Speaker 2: If I'd seen that onion go anywhere near his mouth,
22:37
Speaker 2: I would have stopped that one, but I missed that one.
22:39
Speaker 6: Well, you didn't get Prince Philip either, but I heard
22:41
Speaker 6: you tried.
22:42
Speaker 7: But anyway, look.
22:42
Speaker 2: Oh, I tried. LAUGHTER All right, we'll leave it there.
22:48
Speaker 2: We'll start to really uncover some secrets in a moment. Thanks, Andrew.
22:51
Speaker 2: All right, now to the latest housing data. It's in
22:53
Speaker 2: absolute freefall across our major metro markets. Sydney house prices
22:58
Speaker 2: are on track for the most significant decline in 40 years.
23:01
Speaker 2: Around 40,000 has been wiped off the average home in
23:05
Speaker 2: just this winter season alone. Joining me now, independent economist
23:08
Speaker 2: with EQ Economics, Warren Hogan. Well, how does this sort
23:13
Speaker 2: of drop in value of what is, for most of us,
23:16
Speaker 2: our largest asset, play out, Warren?
23:21
Speaker 7: Yeah, good evening, Peter. It's not looking good at the moment.
23:24
Speaker 7: We're seeing the housing correction downturn broaden. That is, more
23:30
Speaker 7: parts of Australia are seeing prices fall and, of course...
23:34
Speaker 7: Revisions to the latest data going back over the winter
23:37
Speaker 7: months show quite a steep pace, steeper than we thought.
23:41
Speaker 7: So I think there was reported 93% of suburbs in
23:44
Speaker 7: major capital cities are now seeing price decline. So it's
23:47
Speaker 7: really more than obviously Melbourne's the worst and then Sydney,
23:50
Speaker 7: but it's happening across the nation. But I'd be careful
23:55
Speaker 7: about sort of what economists might call premature extrapolation, and
23:58
Speaker 7: that is taking what's happened in the last three months
24:01
Speaker 7: and pushing it forward over the whole year. That's where
24:03
Speaker 7: you get these ideas that the market could fall 18%
24:07
Speaker 7: or 20%, the market is starting to see the pace
24:11
Speaker 7: of decline sort of slow, the first stage to actually
24:15
Speaker 7: a stabilisation. But we just don't know. But we are
24:19
Speaker 7: in a full-blown housing correction and we're dealing with unusual circumstances.
24:25
Speaker 7: That is the tax changes on top of the sort
24:27
Speaker 7: of more ordinary rate hikes and a bit of geopolitical uncertainty.
24:32
Speaker 2: Okay, so about 10 to 12 billion dwellings in the country,
24:35
Speaker 2: and of that people are either paid off their home,
24:39
Speaker 2: they don't want the value to fall, paying off their home,
24:41
Speaker 2: they don't want the value to fall, or renting, they
24:44
Speaker 2: don't want their rents to go up. And you've got
24:46
Speaker 2: a tiny proportion, what, 100,000 at any time, looking to
24:49
Speaker 2: get into their first home. Well, if they are renting,
24:53
Speaker 2: they're already paying higher rents or at risk of paying
24:55
Speaker 2: higher rents. There's also talk now that the RBA might
24:59
Speaker 2: lift rates So how are they benefiting from this fall
25:03
Speaker 2: in house prices?
25:05
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's looking very messy. We know that
25:09
Speaker 7: this sort of tax changes were sort of sprung on
25:12
Speaker 7: us in the budget. We know there's been sort of
25:16
Speaker 7: lots of changes that have been debated and happened since.
25:20
Speaker 7: But we're getting, you know, because it's not a clear-cut change.
25:24
Speaker 7: I mean, investors... can still get negative gearing from new builds.
25:28
Speaker 7: And so I just heard in Perth last week that
25:30
Speaker 7: a lot of sort of new builds on the urban fringe,
25:32
Speaker 7: which would traditionally go to first-home buyers because it's affordable housing,
25:36
Speaker 7: the investors are rushing there and crowding them out. You're
25:39
Speaker 7: getting effects that I don't think was anticipated. So the
25:42
Speaker 7: government and the Treasury are hoping for this long-term outcome,
25:45
Speaker 7: but right now it's looking very messy, highly disruptive, and
25:49
Speaker 7: politically the combination of falling house values and rising rents
25:52
Speaker 7: is about as bad as you can get. So I
25:55
Speaker 7: better hope that there's a sort of a resolution out there.
25:57
Speaker 7: But right now, it's looking very, very messy. And of course,
26:01
Speaker 7: it doesn't look like it's going to achieve the underlying
26:03
Speaker 7: problem in our housing markets, which is not enough houses.
26:06
Speaker 7: In fact, the government's admitted that it's going to actually
26:09
Speaker 7: hurt new housing supply to the tune of 30,000 houses,
26:12
Speaker 7: less builds. But it could be worse than that if
26:14
Speaker 7: it really gets it and sort of goes worse from here.
26:19
Speaker 7: So we're just watching. We don't know. We've never seen
26:22
Speaker 7: this before. And it's looking a bit scary, but We're
26:24
Speaker 7: just an important month ahead for the Australian housing market.
26:29
Speaker 2: Well, people clearly weren't watching Sky News or News24 as
26:32
Speaker 2: we are now because we warned from the get-go that
26:35
Speaker 2: if you change the parameters for investors, you're going to
26:38
Speaker 2: put them in the place where, as you say, a
26:40
Speaker 2: lot of entrants are trying to get in the market.
26:43
Speaker 2: You know, Nappy Valley, the houses, the new builds on
26:45
Speaker 2: the edges of our peri-urban areas, they are now where
26:49
Speaker 2: the first-home buyers are being crowded out. That was traditionally
26:52
Speaker 2: where they went. And anyone else who's got stock is
26:54
Speaker 2: not trying to sell in a falling market right now.
26:57
Speaker 2: They will sell if they have to sell, but a
26:59
Speaker 2: lot of people are holding back. So you're not getting
27:01
Speaker 2: that downsizing impact, you're not getting the homes turning over,
27:04
Speaker 2: which is what the government was hoping. The bloke that
27:08
Speaker 2: used to be on Shark Tank, the judge Steve Baxter,
27:11
Speaker 2: says these tax changes in the budget, and he's one
27:14
Speaker 2: of many critics, but he says this will create an
27:17
Speaker 2: economic wasteland. Do you think that's accurate?
27:23
Speaker 7: Look, I mean, it's certainly that that's the risk. I mean,
27:25
Speaker 7: you know, we're essentially overcooked the size of government in
27:30
Speaker 7: many respects, but in terms of just sheer taxation and spending. And,
27:35
Speaker 7: you know, this guy is at the coalface of innovation.
27:39
Speaker 7: And if he's telling us that it's going to damage
27:43
Speaker 7: our capacity to to encourage young Australians or all Australians
27:48
Speaker 7: to innovate and take risks when we're staring down the
27:51
Speaker 7: barrel of a once in a hundred year technological revolution,
27:54
Speaker 7: I think we should take him seriously. I mean, to
27:57
Speaker 7: your point about housing, we've just had a massive cost
28:00
Speaker 7: increase for housing construction, which made the economics of housing
28:04
Speaker 7: development perilous already. And then the government goes and shocks
28:08
Speaker 7: the market with these tax changes out of the blue.
28:11
Speaker 7: We're not seeing smart economic policy. We're not seeing smart
28:14
Speaker 7: long-term economic decision-making. And I think to his point, the
28:19
Speaker 7: consequences could be a lot worse than anyone is thinking
28:22
Speaker 7: about right now, which would be devastating for what has
28:25
Speaker 7: been one of the most successful economies in the world in.
28:27
Speaker 4: The last 30, 40 years.
28:29
Speaker 2: Well, you and I both know the problem. We don't
28:31
Speaker 2: have many people that have got an economic brain or
28:33
Speaker 2: a qualification in a lot of these economic portfolios. I
28:36
Speaker 2: think that's a huge problem in Australia. You have to
28:38
Speaker 2: be an expert in your portfolio to to be part
28:41
Speaker 2: of the president's cabinet in the United States. Yes, it's
28:44
Speaker 2: a different system. But here in Australia, you do not
28:47
Speaker 2: have to be. Talk to me about the risk of
28:50
Speaker 2: conflict here. The new chair of Housing Australia, Anne Sherry,
28:54
Speaker 2: facing calls that she needs to resign now from her
28:57
Speaker 2: position on the board of the Super Members Council. This
29:01
Speaker 2: is industry super funds. Warren, do you think there is
29:03
Speaker 2: a conflict of interest here?
29:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, look, I think the director class has
29:08
Speaker 7: been running a very, very close to the breeze on
29:11
Speaker 7: this for many decades, really. I mean, you know, don't
29:15
Speaker 7: put yourself in a position where your integrity can be questioned.
29:19
Speaker 7: So I think there's something to this. And, you know,
29:21
Speaker 7: we have a problem of trust and we need leadership.
29:24
Speaker 7: So this doesn't look good and it's not what we
29:27
Speaker 7: need from our leaders. We need people that the community
29:31
Speaker 7: can get behind because we've got a challenging world to
29:33
Speaker 7: deal with and we're making it harder for ourselves in
29:35
Speaker 7: this country And that leadership and trust around that leadership
29:40
Speaker 7: is going to be extremely important in the next three
29:43
Speaker 7: to five years.
29:45
Speaker 2: Well, Warren Hogan, you are a trusted voice, so thank
29:47
Speaker 2: you for joining me tonight. All right, after the break,
29:49
Speaker 2: more on my exclusive revelations last night that the Royal
29:52
Speaker 2: Commission ignored a submission highlighting big holes in counter-terrorism capability
29:58
Speaker 2: at the AFP... Pride of Bondi, that's next. Welcome back.
30:05
Speaker 2: Coming out, the latest push by the campaign team at
30:08
Speaker 2: Fix Victoria. This week, turning their attention to potholes as
30:12
Speaker 2: Labor announces a new plan to use Victorian prisoners to
30:16
Speaker 2: fill them. I kid you not. But now to the
30:20
Speaker 2: ongoing fallout from the exclusive last night that a former
30:24
Speaker 2: AFP whistleblower was not called as a witness... at the
30:27
Speaker 2: Bondi Royal Commission, despite sharing bombshell claims of critical capability
30:32
Speaker 2: pressures inside the AFP's counter-terrorism command some 18 months before
30:38
Speaker 2: the terror attack. Here to discuss it further, the former
30:42
Speaker 2: Secretary of the Department of Immigration and Border Protection from
30:45
Speaker 2: 2014 to 17, and the boss of the Department of
30:48
Speaker 2: Home Affairs from 2017 to 2023, Mike Pizzullo. Mike, thank
30:51
Speaker 2: you for your time. This internal AFP brief, this minute,
30:59
Speaker 2: that this individual co-authored alongside three other commanders inside counterterrorism,
31:06
Speaker 2: it says that they lacked 38% of the operational capability
31:10
Speaker 2: in New South Wales alone. And also that the NSC,
31:14
Speaker 2: so this is a decision of government, had made a
31:18
Speaker 2: decision to block any calls by the AFP for extra
31:22
Speaker 2: funding and that the ratio of terrorist sympathisers to officers,
31:27
Speaker 2: and this is in The Australian Today, was some 20
31:31
Speaker 2: to 1. Now, surely all of this must be in
31:35
Speaker 2: front of the Commissioner and tested.
31:42
Speaker 4: Good evening, Peter.
31:43
Speaker 1: Well, the major problem here, Peter, is we don't know
31:47
Speaker 1: whether that is or indeed is not the case. Has
31:50
Speaker 1: Commissioner Bell, after she brought down her interim report earlier
31:53
Speaker 1: in the year, in fact called for all of this data,
31:56
Speaker 1: is she reviewing the papers to test these claims? We
32:02
Speaker 1: just simply don't know. On the surface, you would say
32:07
Speaker 1: these are matters that need to be examined and commanders
32:11
Speaker 1: in the AFP are very senior, but they report to
32:14
Speaker 1: assistant commissioners and deputy commissioners and ultimately the commissioner. And
32:18
Speaker 1: I've got no doubt, had Commissioner Barrett been called, I
32:21
Speaker 1: can't imagine for a moment she would have refused to attend.
32:23
Speaker 1: In fact, quite to the contrary. Why wasn't she called?
32:27
Speaker 1: It might be that the data was wrong. It might
32:29
Speaker 1: be that these commanders were not aware of other budgetary
32:33
Speaker 1: manoeuvres or strategies that the Commissioner had.
32:35
Speaker 4: Who knows? We just simply don't know.
32:37
Speaker 1: Peter, it seems to me that there's two problems here,
32:40
Speaker 1: if I can describe them as a structural problem and
32:42
Speaker 1: a judgment problem. The structural problem is that the Commission,
32:46
Speaker 1: with all due respect, is misconceived in terms of its constructions.
32:51
Speaker 1: A similar effort by the Keating government in 94-95 to
32:55
Speaker 1: look into very serious allegations about wrongdoing within ASIS. The
33:00
Speaker 1: Keating government dealt with that by appointing a very distinguished
33:04
Speaker 1: legal mind, Gordon Samuels, of the Supreme Court. of New
33:07
Speaker 1: South Wales and a former secretary of the prime minister's department,
33:11
Speaker 1: Michael Codd. And they sat with all the powers of
33:14
Speaker 1: each each having jointly and individually the powers of royal commission.
33:19
Speaker 1: And they could test these claims. A lot of it
33:21
Speaker 1: had to be done in camera. As you can imagine,
33:23
Speaker 1: ISIS matters were very, very sensitive. And indeed, they called
33:26
Speaker 1: the minister. Gareth Evans was the minister responsible for ISIS
33:30
Speaker 1: and he was called.
33:31
Speaker 4: I can assure you he was called.
33:33
Speaker 1: I think the problem we've got here is that you've
33:34
Speaker 1: got this strange combination of an administrative review by Dennis
33:39
Speaker 1: Richardson convened under the authority of the Prime Minister and
33:42
Speaker 1: probably administratively handled by his department, which then had to
33:45
Speaker 1: be somehow dovetailed or meshed into the Royal Commission led
33:50
Speaker 1: by Virginia Bell. So that's a structural problem which I
33:53
Speaker 1: think has created this context.
33:55
Speaker 2: Can I just jump in there if I can, Mike,
33:57
Speaker 2: just for a moment, because I think not many people
34:00
Speaker 2: have pulled that distinction apart. So The evidence put to
34:05
Speaker 2: Dennis Richardson was not of the coverage of a royal commission.
34:09
Speaker 2: People could volunteer to be a part of it. They
34:12
Speaker 2: didn't have to be a part of it. He had
34:14
Speaker 2: no powers to subpoena witnesses, to warrant documents, to call
34:18
Speaker 2: in documents. It was basically, I don't want to use
34:21
Speaker 2: the term, a low-level administrative review because he's not that
34:24
Speaker 2: sort of bloke, but it had that calibre, it had
34:27
Speaker 2: that distinction of an administrative review, whereas this is a
34:31
Speaker 2: royal commission with all the powers of immunity, and so
34:34
Speaker 2: that's the problem here. You've got a very good legal
34:37
Speaker 2: mind trying to investigate a world that she's got no
34:42
Speaker 2: understanding of, no operational experience, and when they brought in
34:46
Speaker 2: Dennis Richardson... He didn't have the powers of a Royal
34:49
Speaker 2: Commission to do what he should have been able to do.
34:54
Speaker 4: Peter, that sums it up as we understand it.
34:56
Speaker 1: What we don't know is with the appointment of Virginia
34:59
Speaker 1: Bell pursuant to the latest patent that the Governor-General signs,
35:02
Speaker 1: at that instant she might have been able to transfer
35:05
Speaker 1: or veil or clothe some of her powers around the
35:10
Speaker 1: latter part of Mr Richardson's report. I don't know what
35:13
Speaker 1: the answer to that is, but in any event, all
35:16
Speaker 1: of the material and data that he assembled initially would
35:20
Speaker 1: have been done under what are called administrative auspices. So
35:22
Speaker 1: agency heads would be perfectly within their right to say,
35:25
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister wants this done, the Secretary of PM &
35:28
Speaker 1: C has commissioned this, of course I'll cooperate, we'll put
35:32
Speaker 1: our best people on it and we'll give Mr Richardson
35:35
Speaker 1: whatever he requires.
35:36
Speaker 4: The moment the Royal Commission gets.
35:38
Speaker 1: called, agency heads quite properly, legally, have to adopt a
35:41
Speaker 1: completely different persona and procedure, which is to say, I've
35:45
Speaker 1: got to understand what my immunities are, whether any protected
35:49
Speaker 1: officers from within my agency are going to be given,
35:51
Speaker 1: in effect, whistleblower status by the Commission. I've got to
35:54
Speaker 1: make sure that I freeze documents in case the Royal
35:57
Speaker 1: Commission subpoenas them or indeed exercises a search and seizure operation.
36:02
Speaker 1: The Royal Commission subpoenas Act gives the Royal Commissioner search
36:06
Speaker 1: and seizure powers. That's the structural problem. But then having
36:10
Speaker 1: got to where we got to with this odd combination
36:12
Speaker 1: of the Richardson and Bell processes, then I think regrettably,
36:16
Speaker 1: and I say this sorrowfully, there's a judgment problem. If
36:20
Speaker 1: you're looking at this independently, as I'm sure Commissioner Bell is,
36:24
Speaker 1: but with judgment, what you say is, look, the public
36:26
Speaker 1: are going to need some transparency, not to name and shame,
36:31
Speaker 1: but to explain that From the very top, why do
36:34
Speaker 1: we have a National Security Committee? You and I all
36:36
Speaker 1: know why we have it, and there's lots of things
36:38
Speaker 1: that have gone on in NSCs over the years that
36:40
Speaker 1: you and I can never talk about.
36:42
Speaker 4: But in terms of what the public's.
36:44
Speaker 1: Confidence in the NSC should be, you've got the Prime Minister,
36:49
Speaker 1: key ministers who exercise personal powers.
36:52
Speaker 4: Let me give you one very quick example.
36:54
Speaker 1: The Minister for the AFP, under the AFP Act of 1979,
36:59
Speaker 1: has got the power to issue a ministerial direction to
37:02
Speaker 1: in relation to the general policy and approach of the AFP.
37:05
Speaker 1: They can't direct the AFP to investigate someone, to arrest someone,
37:09
Speaker 1: to charge someone.
37:10
Speaker 4: That's not the society that we want to live in.
37:13
Speaker 1: But they can issue, with legal force, directions about AFP priorities.
37:18
Speaker 1: In fact, Mr Burke has.
37:19
Speaker 2: Just recently updated his.
37:20
Speaker 4: OK, Mike, I'm going to jump in there.
37:21
Speaker 2: I'm just conscious.
37:22
Speaker 4: Yep.
37:23
Speaker 2: I'm conscious of time. I've got two big questions for you.
37:26
Speaker 4: Sure.
37:27
Speaker 2: We've talked about the AFP boss not being called. Should
37:31
Speaker 2: under this system, and we've seen plenty of royal commissions
37:34
Speaker 2: in the past, should we have seen public evidence being
37:37
Speaker 2: given by the Prime Minister, if required, but certainly ministers
37:41
Speaker 2: in this process?
37:44
Speaker 1: Yes, because what I was about to say is that
37:46
Speaker 1: from the time of the Hamas attack, which was almost
37:48
Speaker 1: certainly designed to draw out a violent response, let's face it,
37:51
Speaker 1: The horrendous themes that we saw at the Opera House,
37:54
Speaker 1: you know, kill the Jews and gas the Jews, et cetera,
37:57
Speaker 1: leading right up to the change in the threat status
38:01
Speaker 1: in August of 24.
38:03
Speaker 4: Ministers would have been meeting with.
38:04
Speaker 1: Their senior officials to tackle the question of resources, priorities, capability.
38:09
Speaker 1: Have we got enough coverage? Are we covering all the
38:10
Speaker 1: right groups? Ministers are deeply involved in those discussions, as
38:14
Speaker 1: they should be. And there are things that they're never
38:17
Speaker 1: going to be able to discuss publicly, but they should
38:19
Speaker 1: be required to give public evidence about how they approach
38:22
Speaker 1: those different milestones.
38:25
Speaker 2: Another quick question. This is my last question. Given all
38:29
Speaker 2: the things that you know, what would you weight the
38:33
Speaker 2: risk between Islamic terrorism in Australia and white supremacists, neo-Nazis types?
38:44
Speaker 4: They're the top two, but Islamist terrorism by far.
38:48
Speaker 1: Then there's daylight. Then there are the white supremacists and neo-Nazis.
38:51
Speaker 1: Got to keep an eye on them. Absolutely no question.
38:54
Speaker 1: And then the also-rans are behind them. It's one, two, daylight.
38:58
Speaker 1: And between one and two.
38:59
Speaker 4: There's a gap. Yeah.
39:02
Speaker 2: All right. We will be coming back to this. Mike Pozzuolo,
39:04
Speaker 2: you're an expert and I really appreciate your assistance in
39:08
Speaker 2: demystifying some of this for us tonight. Thank you. And
39:10
Speaker 2: after the break, that unbelievable announcement from Premier Ben Carroll,
39:14
Speaker 2: the prisoners out of jail, mending potholes. It's a road gang,
39:19
Speaker 2: a pothole gang. I kid you not, that's next. Welcome back.
39:27
Speaker 2: Coming up, more warnings about the risk that Chris Bowen's
39:29
Speaker 2: home battery scheme could pose to the grid. Not to
39:33
Speaker 2: mention the fires on homes as well. Tuesday's panel's coming up.
39:36
Speaker 2: Lucy Zellick, Senator Sean Bell. But now to Ben Carroll's
39:39
Speaker 2: latest promise to try and hold on to power in Victoria.
39:42
Speaker 2: If re-elected, the new Premier says... He'll put criminal road
39:46
Speaker 2: gangs to work over summer to repair the state's broken
39:50
Speaker 2: road network. I love the pretenders. I mean, they're saying
40:00
Speaker 2: it's minimum security only as part of a pledge, $ 352 million,
40:05
Speaker 2: to get rid of some half a million potholes statewide.
40:09
Speaker 2: Joining me to discuss this, the bloke who reckons Victoria
40:11
Speaker 2: needs fixing, Gideon Rosner... I had to go to that.
40:15
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought this was a joke. I thought
40:16
Speaker 2: we're not close enough to April Fool's Day. But I
40:20
Speaker 2: tell you, I don't want to be driving down the
40:21
Speaker 2: road in country Victoria late at night having to slow
40:25
Speaker 2: down behind the stop and go girl and have a
40:28
Speaker 2: whole lot of prisoners. out there on the roads.
40:30
Speaker 9: Look, Peter, to be honest with you, when I first
40:32
Speaker 9: read it, I thought it was another sweetheart deal with
40:34
Speaker 9: the CFMEU. Even if they end up in jail, they
40:36
Speaker 9: can still get a piece of the action when it
40:37
Speaker 9: comes to road maintenance and public infrastructure and so on. But, look,
40:41
Speaker 9: in all seriousness, it just shows how desperate we've become
40:43
Speaker 9: in Victoria. We can't afford the basics, we've run out
40:46
Speaker 9: of money, so we're resorting to effectively slave labour to
40:49
Speaker 9: deliver a core function of government, which is roads that
40:52
Speaker 9: don't destroy your car. And I think the reason the
40:55
Speaker 9: pothole issue is so... has ingrained itself so much in
40:59
Speaker 9: Victorian minds is, you know, we know Victoria's going backwards.
41:02
Speaker 9: We know it's not on the right track. We know
41:04
Speaker 9: things are falling apart. But when you're driving on a
41:06
Speaker 9: third world road, and they are terrible in some places
41:09
Speaker 9: in Victoria and a lot of places in Victoria, it's real.
41:12
Speaker 4: You can see the decline. You can feel it.
41:14
Speaker 2: It's tangible.
41:15
Speaker 9: And a lot of people who, again, used to remember
41:17
Speaker 9: this state at its prime when it was a great
41:20
Speaker 9: world-class place can now just see things. We can't even
41:24
Speaker 9: get the basics right.
41:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, the $ 200 billion debt, you're right, it's not in
41:27
Speaker 2: your face every single day.
41:29
Speaker 9: Correct.
41:29
Speaker 2: When I leave here at night and I drive along
41:31
Speaker 2: City Road for people in Melbourne and I come around
41:33
Speaker 2: the bend across the yard and go to the tennis
41:35
Speaker 2: centre and along that way, right at that bend, you know,
41:39
Speaker 2: this is a peak tourism road of Melbourne, there's about
41:42
Speaker 2: four major potholes in a row and everyone goes around them, right?
41:47
Speaker 2: And just every time I do that I think this
41:49
Speaker 2: is a showcase road in the Melbourne CBD and that's
41:52
Speaker 2: the state of it.
41:53
Speaker 9: I think it's important as well for your viewers to
41:55
Speaker 9: understand that these are not just minor little bumpity-bumpity inconveniences, right?
41:59
Speaker 9: They're seriously dangerous, but they're costing a lot of money too.
42:03
Speaker 9: Do a Google search and you'll read some absolute horror stories.
42:06
Speaker 9: One bloke brought all four tyres, all four rims, $ 8, 000
42:10
Speaker 9: no compensation. A driving instructor from Warrnambool now has to
42:14
Speaker 9: budget $ 7, 000 a year extra for repairs. That's not a
42:17
Speaker 9: rounding error for a small business, effectively a sole trader.
42:20
Speaker 2: Hey, one of my viewers contacted me. They came down
42:22
Speaker 2: from New South Wales, I think it was, to get
42:24
Speaker 2: a puppy, pick up a puppy. They blew out their tyres.
42:27
Speaker 2: They blew out their rims. They had a couple of
42:28
Speaker 2: nights extra in a motel. It cost them thousands of
42:32
Speaker 2: dollars because of the state of Victoria's roads.
42:34
Speaker 9: Yeah, and as we know, only 2% of compensation claims
42:37
Speaker 9: are being lodged. But you're right, Peter, this is what
42:39
Speaker 9: happens when you run out of money. This is what
42:41
Speaker 9: happens when you're paying a million dollars a day in interest. Again,
42:44
Speaker 9: the basics are not there. The core baseline functions. I
42:47
Speaker 9: was on last week at this program talking about 24-hour
42:51
Speaker 9: police desks being shut down, security being pulled from train stations.
42:55
Speaker 4: These are not nice-to-haves. These are must-haves.
42:58
Speaker 9: And these are the things we cannot afford to do
43:00
Speaker 9: because the state has effectively gone broke.
43:01
Speaker 2: We might have some voxies. You've been out talking to
43:03
Speaker 2: real people on the street. Let's have a listen.
43:06
Speaker 9: What do you think about the roads in Victoria?
43:08
Speaker 10: Crap.
43:09
Speaker 4: They're crap.
43:09
Speaker 9: And tell me, have you had any experience with potholes?
43:11
Speaker 4: Yes, heaps. Mate, tell me about the potholes around here.
43:14
Speaker 7: Atrocious.
43:16
Speaker 4: Absolutely atrocious.
43:17
Speaker 9: How bad is it out here?
43:19
Speaker 7: Oh, it's disgusting.
43:20
Speaker 2: I live past Nanagoon.
43:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, right.
43:23
Speaker 8: So, like, that road, like, on the freeway gets pretty
43:25
Speaker 8: bad when we have a lot of rain.
43:27
Speaker 2: And so I've gotten a flat tyre there before. Well,
43:32
Speaker 2: good on you getting out and hearing it from real people.
43:33
Speaker 9: Yeah, look, and it's important to point out those are
43:36
Speaker 9: just the people who were polite enough and calm enough
43:38
Speaker 9: to stop and speak to us. A lot of people,
43:39
Speaker 9: you know, they didn't want some guy with a little
43:40
Speaker 9: fuzzy microphone going up to them when they're trying to
43:42
Speaker 9: do their shopping.
43:43
Speaker 4: But I'd say, you know, can you talk about the roads?
43:45
Speaker 4: The roads, they're terrible.
43:47
Speaker 9: You know, Peter, I've been in politics and public policy
43:50
Speaker 9: my whole adult life. Over 20 years now, I've never,
43:53
Speaker 9: ever seen anger this white hot.
43:54
Speaker 4: Never, ever, ever.
43:56
Speaker 2: Wow.
43:56
Speaker 9: You know, the 2010 election, some people might remember in Victoria,
43:59
Speaker 9: was known as the Frankston Line election because there were
44:01
Speaker 9: a lot of victories on the Frankston train line. I
44:04
Speaker 9: really think the 2026 election will be known forever.
44:06
Speaker 4: As the pothole election.
44:07
Speaker 9: This is the barbecue stopper issue of the season.
44:10
Speaker 2: Buckle up.
44:12
Speaker 4: You're needed in Victoria.
44:13
Speaker 2: All right, if you're interested in getting involved, go to
44:15
Speaker 2: Fix Victoria's website. Speak your mind. Tell them what you
44:18
Speaker 2: think needs fixing in Victoria. A quick break after the break.
44:21
Speaker 2: Lucy Selleck, Sean Bell, coming up. Let's bring them straight in.
44:31
Speaker 2: My panel, Lucy Zellick and One Nation Senator Sean Bell.
44:35
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. Experts today warning Chris Bowen's home
44:39
Speaker 2: battery scheme could pose a risk to the stability of
44:42
Speaker 2: the energy grid. Well, surprise, surprise, because some of these models,
44:45
Speaker 2: these Chinese models in particular, completely shut down or throttled
44:49
Speaker 2: down during cold weather. Of course, we've got issues with
44:52
Speaker 2: some of them blowing up. There's fire risks, of course,
44:55
Speaker 2: and some at risk of being controlled by their Chinese manufacturers.
45:00
Speaker 2: Another bow and balls up. Is this one, Lucy?
45:02
Speaker 3: Oh.
45:04
Speaker 2: That's putting it pretty politely, Peter.
45:05
Speaker 11: Great to be with you once again. Add to that
45:08
Speaker 11: the fact that this scheme is now blown out by
45:10
Speaker 11: billions of dollars and the fact that now some consumers,
45:14
Speaker 11: depending upon which part of the country you live in,
45:16
Speaker 11: if you are experiencing sub-zero temperatures, which they have been
45:19
Speaker 11: this winter for the first time in 60 years in
45:22
Speaker 11: some instances, the battery will actually throttle. And then some
45:26
Speaker 11: consumers have found themselves in a situation where they're having
45:29
Speaker 11: to purchase a blanket, a cover for it, and have
45:32
Speaker 11: it professionally installed to the tune of hundreds of dollars,
45:36
Speaker 11: and then uninstalled when it comes to summertime because of
45:39
Speaker 11: overheating risks. I mean, it's just remarkable that this government
45:42
Speaker 11: cannot see that these ideological pursuits and fantasies are not
45:46
Speaker 11: just bleeding the cost, you know, the taxpayers dry, but
45:50
Speaker 11: it's effectively not working and it's not providing stability for
45:53
Speaker 11: the grid at all.
45:56
Speaker 2: We've got a lot of public opposition already to the
45:58
Speaker 2: role of these giant data centres. Over 100,000 Australians have
46:03
Speaker 2: signed at least 36 petitions, Sean. Yes, I know the
46:08
Speaker 2: data centres are a big issue and I do think
46:11
Speaker 2: we need debate, but I also want to see some
46:13
Speaker 2: debate and some attention on the actual use of AI
46:17
Speaker 2: and a debate about the guardrails we want in and
46:20
Speaker 2: what will happen to jobs. I mean, we went all
46:22
Speaker 2: the way in, in deep on social media, and now
46:26
Speaker 2: we're grappling with not having enough rules going in. God
46:30
Speaker 2: forbid we go into AI and we're all at sea.
46:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm with Peter Malinowskis on this. I think
46:35
Speaker 2: we need the rules in place before this hits hard,
46:38
Speaker 2: don't you think?
46:38
Speaker 4: I mean, I agree.
46:40
Speaker 10: The federal government actually did initiate an inquiry into this issue.
46:44
Speaker 10: Their report was handed back late last year. One of
46:47
Speaker 10: the recommendations was that we need to develop whole of
46:51
Speaker 10: government legislation to protect Australians from high-risk AI. And as
46:56
Speaker 10: far as I'm aware, no further action has been taken.
46:58
Speaker 10: That particular recommendation has been more or less ignored by
47:01
Speaker 10: the Albanese Labor government. And they really risk being caught short.
47:04
Speaker 10: And also this issue of the data centers, too, is
47:07
Speaker 10: a big one. And it might actually be one of
47:08
Speaker 10: the biggest issues. It gets brought up more than any
47:10
Speaker 10: other issue. And I just want to go into some detail.
47:13
Speaker 10: The size of these data centers and the amount of
47:16
Speaker 10: renewable intermittent energy that they are, the Albanese government wants
47:20
Speaker 10: them to uptake. I mean, uh one project in the
47:22
Speaker 10: northern territory that's a one gigawatt data center that's 90
47:25
Speaker 10: hectares for the data center and they're saying that in
47:28
Speaker 10: order to power it they're going to build an additional
47:30
Speaker 10: 7 000 hectares of solar i mean every time the
47:35
Speaker 10: federal government says that we need to make sure these
47:37
Speaker 10: are powered by intermittent energy put that in your head
47:40
Speaker 10: that is 7 000 hectares of solar panels for each
47:43
Speaker 10: new one gigawatt data center or the equivalent of and
47:46
Speaker 10: so i mean it's just a Put that there's the
47:48
Speaker 10: level and that's going to affect rural and regional areas.
47:51
Speaker 10: That's where the data centers are going. So it is
47:53
Speaker 10: it's a huge concern on both sides. I think the
47:55
Speaker 10: government's being caught flat footed. And I think people are
47:58
Speaker 10: still yet to grasp the sheer volume of land and
48:01
Speaker 10: how this will be used to further prop up the
48:03
Speaker 10: net zero agenda from the Albanese Labor government.
48:07
Speaker 2: Lucy, I want to ask you a question about an
48:09
Speaker 2: emotional topic, but I come from the position that I
48:12
Speaker 2: think laws must protect the most vulnerable. And this is
48:16
Speaker 2: about euthanasia. So right now you have to see a doctor,
48:20
Speaker 2: you have to see two face-to-face doctors, you have to
48:23
Speaker 2: have a terminal illness and it has to be signed
48:25
Speaker 2: off with authority. There's a real push to allow it
48:27
Speaker 2: to happen on the phone and doctors have come out
48:30
Speaker 2: publicly and said we're very concerned it will make our
48:34
Speaker 2: laws far too permissive. One is the Victorian, former Victorian
48:38
Speaker 2: head of the AMA, Professor Mark Yates. He's part of
48:42
Speaker 2: a group of doctors. He says you require sophistication to
48:46
Speaker 2: assess capacity of consent, to assess that there's not coercion
48:50
Speaker 2: being put on this person, that there's no mental health
48:54
Speaker 2: disorders before they consent to euthanasia. He says you can't
48:57
Speaker 2: do this safely via telehealth. What do you think here?
49:03
Speaker 11: I understand, Peter, it's a very emotional issue, but full
49:06
Speaker 11: caveat here, I'm a proud Christian woman and I have
49:08
Speaker 11: very staunchly been against the idea of voluntary assisted dying.
49:12
Speaker 11: And doctors themselves also, you've seen professors and medical experts
49:17
Speaker 11: weigh in on this who have also been against it
49:19
Speaker 11: because they sign an oath to preserve and protect life,
49:22
Speaker 11: not to end it. Professor Yates is right to address
49:25
Speaker 11: the fact that this doesn't take into account coercion, as
49:30
Speaker 11: well as other mental health issues in all of this.
49:33
Speaker 11: So it's very sad to see that you've got the
49:35
Speaker 11: likes of Senator Hanson-Young really pushing something like this.
49:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does concern me a lot. We'll stay with
49:42
Speaker 2: that issue. It's not going to go away. Thank you
49:44
Speaker 2: to you both. See you both next week. All right,
49:46
Speaker 2: that's it from me. Have a lovely evening. My good
49:49
Speaker 2: friend James Ikerferson is up next.