Latest / Foul Territory / MLBPA Lead Negotiator Bruce Meyer on Manfred’s comments, Salary cap battle, Lockout threats

Transcript

MLBPA Lead Negotiator Bruce Meyer on Manfred’s comments, Salary cap battle, Lockout threats · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: I've run into owners at games and things, and when
0:03
Speaker 1: I introduce myself, they literally say, we're not allowed to
0:06
Speaker 1: talk to you. I think they get fined, so you know,
0:09
Speaker 1: again that's just a little ironic.
0:15
Speaker 2: Bruce Meyer joining us right now, the deputy executive director
0:18
Speaker 2: of the Players Association.
0:20
Speaker 3: Bruce.
0:21
Speaker 2: Great to have you on foul Territory. Thank you so
0:23
Speaker 2: much for the time, and I figure I'll just start
0:25
Speaker 2: with a quick intro just like we do, you know,
0:27
Speaker 2: passing the rock, and say your name and what you
0:30
Speaker 2: do for those that are unaware of you know, how
0:32
Speaker 2: your position works within the MLBPA. Can you enlighten us
0:36
Speaker 2: on what you've been able to do within the Players Association?
0:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks Scott. Pleasure to be on it. What did
0:44
Speaker 1: they say on the Collin Shows? First time, long time fan,
0:48
Speaker 1: So happy to be on. Yeah. I'm the deputy executive director.
0:52
Speaker 1: I'm also the lead negotiator and collective argaining. I came
0:56
Speaker 1: on in I believe it was September of two thousand eighteen,
1:01
Speaker 1: so been through been through a lot. I've been through
1:04
Speaker 1: the pandemic, been through collective bargaining in twenty one, twenty two.
1:08
Speaker 1: I've been through the first minor league collective Bargaining Agreement,
1:13
Speaker 1: and obviously preparing for the next Major League CBA. The
1:17
Speaker 1: current CBA, as you know, inspires in December of twenty
1:21
Speaker 1: twenty six. So we've been doing what we always do,
1:24
Speaker 1: meeting with players, collecting feedback, and getting ready for whatever's coming. Purse.
1:31
Speaker 4: Before we dig into this interview here, relax, I know
1:34
Speaker 4: you don't do a lot of interviews. Relax, It's okay.
1:36
Speaker 4: You know, you know this stuff like the back of
1:38
Speaker 4: your hand. Just take a deep.
1:40
Speaker 3: Breath, Relax.
1:40
Speaker 4: You know, if we need to get someone over there
1:43
Speaker 4: to rub on your shoulders a little bit gets you
1:45
Speaker 4: to calm down, It's okay. We're not going to ask
1:46
Speaker 4: any hard hitting questions that you haven't answered a thousand
1:49
Speaker 4: times for Tony Clark. So smile, enjoy the interview, and
1:52
Speaker 4: you're gonna do great. I'm proud of you for coming
1:54
Speaker 4: on with us.
1:56
Speaker 1: So prest of all, I appreciate that although I'm fine,
2:00
Speaker 1: I have always tense. And second, I'm having a like
2:03
Speaker 1: a weird lag, which your producer told me you're not seeing.
2:09
Speaker 1: So when I talk, I'm seeing my lips move like
2:12
Speaker 1: a few seconds later, So it's throwing me off. But
2:14
Speaker 1: I'm great, AJ, and I appreciate that.
2:19
Speaker 3: There you go.
2:19
Speaker 2: Hey, all right, so let's get to biss. Let's try
2:22
Speaker 2: this out part of our reach out to you. Of course,
2:25
Speaker 2: we want to have you on at some point. Anyway,
2:27
Speaker 2: was timing. We covered the story last week in The
2:31
Speaker 2: Athletic from Evandrelic that brought to light many comments that
2:35
Speaker 2: became public from Rob Manfred about his latest message, which
2:39
Speaker 2: seemed to be directed towards players in Major League Baseball.
2:44
Speaker 2: What did you think of what he said? And what
2:46
Speaker 2: do you think is the response from the players Association
2:51
Speaker 2: to someone on the other side trying to stir the pot.
2:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I'll say it's not new.
2:59
Speaker 1: I mean Rob has done that in the past, gone
3:02
Speaker 1: to locker rooms, talk to players, players, tell us that
3:06
Speaker 1: he's coming players. Usually player rep talks to us after
3:10
Speaker 1: he's done, So it's not new. I'll say. Also, you know,
3:15
Speaker 1: basically it's kind of continuation of a pattern which has
3:18
Speaker 1: gone on for decades, which is, you know, the other side.
3:22
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a labor labor relationship. The other side
3:26
Speaker 1: tries to go directly to players, tries to create divisions
3:29
Speaker 1: between players and other players or players in the Union,
3:33
Speaker 1: and and and that's part of, you know, part of
3:35
Speaker 1: what they do. And again it's nothing new. So we've
3:40
Speaker 1: been meeting with our players pretty much continuously. So our
3:44
Speaker 1: players are are educated and informed, and I think they
3:48
Speaker 1: understand where Rob's coming from when he comes to me.
3:51
Speaker 3: With them, it was a different tact. It was a
3:55
Speaker 3: different type. In my playing days, I'd never yeah, he
3:58
Speaker 3: would come in and he would chat or talk, but
4:01
Speaker 3: to do it publicly, it felt like it felt like
4:05
Speaker 3: more to me, it felt like, as a player, more
4:08
Speaker 3: of an attack. Why do you think now is the
4:11
Speaker 3: time that he chose to do that? Because he doesn't
4:13
Speaker 3: choose things just singularly. Why did the group Why didn't
4:17
Speaker 3: Major League Baseball owners feel like this was a good
4:20
Speaker 3: time to do this.
4:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, I hesitate to try and interpret
4:28
Speaker 1: what's in their minds. But look, I mean it's been
4:31
Speaker 1: no secret. I mean they, the league and some of
4:34
Speaker 1: the individual owners have made no secret that they would
4:38
Speaker 1: like to see a system that they've tried to get
4:40
Speaker 1: for fifty years, which is a salary cap system. I
4:44
Speaker 1: think probably there's a lot of pressure on the other
4:46
Speaker 1: side internally to try and take a stab at that,
4:49
Speaker 1: but we'll see. But you know, that seems to be
4:52
Speaker 1: the impetus. You guys know, after the last CBA, they
4:56
Speaker 1: immediately formed this Economic Study Committee, which some people think,
5:01
Speaker 1: you know, was was largely the salary cap Study Committee.
5:05
Speaker 1: But but we'll see what what they actually propose. You know,
5:09
Speaker 1: you've been you've been seeing a lot of talk, though
5:11
Speaker 1: more than usual, from individual owners about things they would
5:16
Speaker 1: like to see in the next system. So I think
5:18
Speaker 1: that's probably really the driving uh the driving force behind it.
5:23
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a little ironic because we're they
5:27
Speaker 1: don't actually allow their owners to talk to us. I've
5:30
Speaker 1: run into owners at games and things, and when I
5:33
Speaker 1: introduce myself, they literally say, we're not allowed to talk
5:37
Speaker 1: to you. I think they get fined. So, you know,
5:40
Speaker 1: again that's just a little ironic. Uh, they're apparently afraid
5:44
Speaker 1: of their owners talking to us individually. But you know,
5:48
Speaker 1: I think I think it's par for the course the
5:51
Speaker 1: last couple of years. And again, our players, you know,
5:54
Speaker 1: we do everything we can to make sure our players
5:56
Speaker 1: are educated and they understand what they're hearing, and if
5:59
Speaker 1: they have questions, they'll ask ask us before or after.
6:03
Speaker 1: And so you know we're dealing with it crats.
6:07
Speaker 2: We talk about Hello Fresh a lot, but in the
6:10
Speaker 2: same FAM is another option for you. If you're looking
6:13
Speaker 2: to go on your little wellness journey, or you're very
6:15
Speaker 2: picky in terms of what you're looking for ingredients wise,
6:18
Speaker 2: you can go Green Chef this summer.
6:21
Speaker 3: And I can heat and eat Because this summer I've
6:23
Speaker 3: got like three days where I'm not doing anything. I'm
6:26
Speaker 3: sure those are going to get scheduled with something. Let's
6:29
Speaker 3: give me something super quick that I can heat up.
6:32
Speaker 3: The whole family's eating healthy and.
6:34
Speaker 2: They're full menus change weekly eighty plus dietician improved weekly
6:38
Speaker 2: meal options. Green Chef makes it easy to find those
6:41
Speaker 2: meals to fit your lifestyle, so go check it out ftfam.
6:45
Speaker 2: There is an exclusive offer make this summer your healthiest
6:48
Speaker 2: yet with green Chef. Head to green chef dot com
6:51
Speaker 2: slash fifty territory and use code five zero territory to
6:55
Speaker 2: get fifty percent off your first month and twenty percent
6:58
Speaker 2: off for two months with free shipping. That's code fifty
7:01
Speaker 2: territory at green chep dot com slash five zero territory.
7:07
Speaker 4: Hey, Bruce, you mentioned owners not talking to you guys,
7:10
Speaker 4: We had Dexter Foller on here and he's part of
7:12
Speaker 4: the Special Commissioners Players Association Outreach whatever. I don't know
7:17
Speaker 4: what it's called, but what's the thought on that? Because
7:19
Speaker 4: I kind of questioned Dexter about it, like, man, this
7:22
Speaker 4: is weird because you know, you're, as a former player,
7:25
Speaker 4: part of the union. You're going in to tell players, hey,
7:27
Speaker 4: let's stand with the commissioner here. Now he said, that's
7:29
Speaker 4: not how it works. But is there any thought from
7:31
Speaker 4: the player association like why are players going to work
7:34
Speaker 4: for the other side, Because then they come into the
7:37
Speaker 4: to the room and they get access to the other players,
7:39
Speaker 4: and then they can run back and say, hey, Rob,
7:41
Speaker 4: this is what the players are talking about. Does it
7:42
Speaker 4: give them any extra granted access because of that?
7:47
Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, I mean I obviously wasn't wasn't the player
7:50
Speaker 1: and and you know, all due respect to anybody who
7:54
Speaker 1: played the game, and in terms of what guys choose
7:58
Speaker 1: to do in their in their post career careers, you know,
8:02
Speaker 1: I'm not going to question that. I will say, you know,
8:06
Speaker 1: there are players who are being paid by MLB and
8:09
Speaker 1: who are going with Rob to the locker rooms and
8:12
Speaker 1: trying to sell players on a system that this union
8:16
Speaker 1: has historically thought was bad for players and that they
8:20
Speaker 1: themselves didn't have to live under when they played. So
8:24
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that, I guess I'll say players,
8:27
Speaker 1: I think see it for what it is. Players know
8:30
Speaker 1: when they see those guys in the locker room with
8:33
Speaker 1: Rob pitching a system that the league wants. Players know
8:37
Speaker 1: those guys are getting paid. And again, it may be
8:40
Speaker 1: great players, maybe former teammates, maybe guys they respect, but
8:44
Speaker 1: I think players take it for what it is. Players
8:47
Speaker 1: understand what's going on, and again, who's being paid to do? What?
8:53
Speaker 3: Can you comment on the commissioner's words when he said
8:57
Speaker 3: he wouldn't have lost billions of players when you break
9:03
Speaker 3: it down and you look at it, and that is
9:04
Speaker 3: like you were the one that that agreed to this
9:09
Speaker 3: deal that lost the players. Like he's saying that the
9:12
Speaker 3: billions wouldn't have been lost if the players would just
9:15
Speaker 3: come over and listen to what he has to say
9:18
Speaker 3: or follow him.
9:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean the whole premise. And again,
9:24
Speaker 1: you know, the cap talk is nothing new. I mean
9:27
Speaker 1: they've proposed something like a cap or a weight scale
9:30
Speaker 1: at least five times, going back to the seventies, and
9:34
Speaker 1: you know, the pitch is like, hey, this is really
9:36
Speaker 1: good for the players. And you know, one of the
9:38
Speaker 1: things players immediately sees on as well, if this is
9:42
Speaker 1: so good for us, then why are they pushing it
9:44
Speaker 1: so hard? Why do they want it so desperately? Why
9:47
Speaker 1: did the other leagues, you know, lock out players to
9:50
Speaker 1: get it. So you know, when when faced with a
9:52
Speaker 1: claim that hey, this is really good for you, it's
9:55
Speaker 1: going to put money in your pockets again, I think
9:58
Speaker 1: guys immediately understand that the reason they want that system
10:03
Speaker 1: is not because they want to pay players more. They
10:06
Speaker 1: can pay players more today. So you know, it's a
10:10
Speaker 1: little unclear what's being referred to and talking about. Well,
10:13
Speaker 1: you know, if you had this system, you could have
10:15
Speaker 1: had two billion dollars. I mean again, I don't know
10:18
Speaker 1: what proposal is being referred to there. But the fact
10:22
Speaker 1: of the matter is they want that system because it's
10:24
Speaker 1: going to ultimately put more money in their pockets. It's
10:27
Speaker 1: going to increase their profits, it's going to increase their
10:30
Speaker 1: franchise values, and that's that's why they wanted I mean, frankly,
10:34
Speaker 1: if it was so good for the players and it
10:37
Speaker 1: was going to cost them so much money for players.
10:40
Speaker 1: Why don't you see the other leagues, you know, trying
10:43
Speaker 1: trying to give up those systems. Why don't you see
10:45
Speaker 1: the other league say, hey, you know this is costing
10:47
Speaker 1: us a lot of money, like let's go back to
10:49
Speaker 1: the pre cap system. So I think there's the right
10:52
Speaker 1: the right amount of skepticism among players when they hear
10:57
Speaker 1: claims like that.
10:58
Speaker 2: All right, we're back with Bruce Bye from the MLB
11:00
Speaker 2: Players Association. Let's continue the salary cap talk, shall we. So, Bruce,
11:06
Speaker 2: you mentioned how a commissioner, Rob Manfred, you know, brings
11:10
Speaker 2: up the billions of dollars that the players could have
11:12
Speaker 2: had from some magic pot that I don't know where
11:15
Speaker 2: that came from. So to continue the salary cap discussion,
11:20
Speaker 2: why do you think that you know, we're in a
11:22
Speaker 2: position here where it's become more of a push from
11:26
Speaker 2: the league side. And the big follow up for me
11:28
Speaker 2: is are they able to share more money as a
11:32
Speaker 2: league without anything having to do with the salary cap?
11:34
Speaker 2: If the biggest complaint is, hey, the pirates, or bring
11:39
Speaker 2: up another team that doesn't spend much would spend all
11:41
Speaker 2: of this money if we had a salary cap? Why
11:44
Speaker 2: don't they just help them out with revenue sharing to
11:47
Speaker 2: distribute their piece of the pot a little bit better.
11:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of things, Scott. First of all, on
11:54
Speaker 1: revenue sharing, they can't change the way they share revenues.
11:58
Speaker 1: We have negotiating with us. That's something that's been collectively
12:01
Speaker 1: bargained for, you know, decades and including the last round
12:05
Speaker 1: of bargaining. So if they want to share more revenues,
12:08
Speaker 1: that's not something they can do by themselves without negotiating
12:12
Speaker 1: with us. But there are things you can do, you know,
12:16
Speaker 1: to the extent we have some teams that don't want
12:18
Speaker 1: to spend. There are things you can do to incentivize
12:21
Speaker 1: teams to spend. We proposed some of them last time.
12:24
Speaker 1: The league wasn't interested. Last time in bargaining, we proposed
12:29
Speaker 1: numerous changes to the revenue sharing system. We said, look,
12:31
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense right now. You're giving all this
12:34
Speaker 1: money to certain teams and they're not spending it. They're
12:37
Speaker 1: and they're basically, you know, putting the money away. And
12:41
Speaker 1: what we heard from the league was, we don't disagree
12:45
Speaker 1: on some of these things, but we can't change it.
12:47
Speaker 1: We won't change it. I mean literally, last time the
12:49
Speaker 1: league told us we will not change revenue sharing period,
12:54
Speaker 1: and they didn't. They never wavered from that. This time,
12:57
Speaker 1: you know, it may be different this time. They're reasons
13:00
Speaker 1: to believe the league may may be more open to
13:03
Speaker 1: that discussion. But you could make changes. It would have
13:06
Speaker 1: to be be negotiated in terms of you know, the cap.
13:11
Speaker 1: They you know, we're always asked about a floor, right,
13:15
Speaker 1: so well, it wouldn't be good to have a floor.
13:17
Speaker 1: And just to be clear on a couple of things,
13:20
Speaker 1: we're not against a floor. If if if they came
13:24
Speaker 1: to us and said, we'll give you a floor, my
13:27
Speaker 1: response would be great, what does it come with? And
13:31
Speaker 1: historically that has always come with a cap. And the
13:34
Speaker 1: last round of negotiations we had in exchange with one
13:37
Speaker 1: of their owners who literally said any any amount in
13:41
Speaker 1: a floor would have to be paid for dollars for
13:44
Speaker 1: dollars somewhere else. So when they talk about a floor,
13:48
Speaker 1: what they're really talking about is just taking money from
13:50
Speaker 1: somewhere else and giving it to a different team. You know,
13:55
Speaker 1: what they call a zero S game. Just you know,
13:57
Speaker 1: they're talking about converting into a system where nobody can
13:59
Speaker 1: spend more than the amount. Now again, there are other ways
14:02
Speaker 1: to incentivize tams, whether through you know, a floor or
14:06
Speaker 1: a soft floor, or having the right incentives. And again
14:09
Speaker 1: we're always, you know, open minded about things like that,
14:12
Speaker 1: but to be clear, the league's conception of a floor
14:15
Speaker 1: has always been we're going to take money from a
14:18
Speaker 1: team that wants to spend it and give it to
14:20
Speaker 1: a team that doesn't want to spend it and somehow
14:22
Speaker 1: make them spend it. But at the end of the day,
14:25
Speaker 1: you're transfer transforming it into a system where where nobody
14:29
Speaker 1: can can fully ever be competitive. Nobody can, excuse me,
14:32
Speaker 1: can compete. Nobody can. It's it's really the opposite of competition,
14:37
Speaker 1: salary cap, you know, it's really what it is really
14:39
Speaker 1: as a form of collusion. You know, for years there
14:42
Speaker 1: was collusion and trying to figure out ways to collude. Well,
14:44
Speaker 1: if you have a cast system, you don't have to
14:46
Speaker 1: clude because it is a collusion. Nobody can compete to
14:50
Speaker 1: put the best team on the field, you know, on
14:52
Speaker 1: any given day. So you know, those are just some
14:56
Speaker 1: things to keep in mind about a cap system. And
15:00
Speaker 1: another thing, I apolo just doesn't really go to your question,
15:02
Speaker 1: but you know, one of the things I think people
15:04
Speaker 1: don't appreciate about that kind of system is individual guaranteed contracts.
15:10
Speaker 1: You really can't have them in the cap systems the
15:12
Speaker 1: way our players have them in baseball and football. You know,
15:17
Speaker 1: this is most obvious. I mean, every free agent period
15:20
Speaker 1: it's like a bloodbath. They're cutting players, players at all levels,
15:23
Speaker 1: you know, Pro Bowl players, middle class players, to try
15:27
Speaker 1: and squeeze in a salary for a quarterback. Even the
15:31
Speaker 1: quarterbacks they go to continuously and say, oh, would you
15:33
Speaker 1: take less so we could sign this guy. Very few
15:37
Speaker 1: contracts in football are fully guaranteed. In basketball and hockey
15:41
Speaker 1: they have escro means your contract is not really guaranteed.
15:45
Speaker 1: And in fact, there was an article just a few
15:47
Speaker 1: days ago about basketball their players because the revenues didn't
15:51
Speaker 1: meet projections, their players had to give back five hundred
15:55
Speaker 1: million dollars almost of their guaranteed salaries. So, you know,
16:00
Speaker 1: there are other things that come along with a cap system.
16:04
Speaker 1: You know, it's not just a math problem like well
16:06
Speaker 1: here's how much you're getting, now here's how much you
16:08
Speaker 1: would get. It undermines guarantees, It eroads guarantees, freedom of movement,
16:14
Speaker 1: freedom to structure contracts, freedom to do early extensions. All
16:17
Speaker 1: of those things are things that come along with a cap,
16:21
Speaker 1: things that you basically can't do anymore.
16:26
Speaker 2: So I think it's clear, I mean, on your side, obviously,
16:29
Speaker 2: it's going to hurt the player perspective, which goes against
16:32
Speaker 2: what Commissioner Manfred just said. I'll try and do a
16:35
Speaker 2: nice and simple question, then let you run with it,
16:37
Speaker 2: and some of it you already covered, but I just
16:39
Speaker 2: feel like I need to queue it up this way.
16:41
Speaker 2: We get so much fan feedback, especially in the off season.
16:44
Speaker 3: We need a cap.
16:45
Speaker 2: It will cure everything.
16:47
Speaker 1: Right.
16:47
Speaker 2: I'm a fan of a small market team and I'm
16:50
Speaker 2: sick of seeing the Dodgers sign all of these players.
16:54
Speaker 2: If not a cap, what is the solution to get
16:58
Speaker 2: those teams more competitive with the big juggernauts in baseball?
17:04
Speaker 1: So a few things. I mean, first of all, when
17:06
Speaker 1: you look at the history of MLB, the recent history,
17:09
Speaker 1: and particularly when you're compared it to other sports, I mean,
17:12
Speaker 1: small market teams have been successful. You know, I grew
17:15
Speaker 1: up in New York rooting for the New York Mets.
17:17
Speaker 1: The Mets haven't won a World Series in forty years.
17:20
Speaker 1: The Dodgers have won two in thirty eight years. You know,
17:24
Speaker 1: the Yankees haven't won fifteen years, I mean since the
17:26
Speaker 1: Mets last won a World Series. Clubs that have won
17:29
Speaker 1: World Series include Minnesota, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Saint Louis won two.
17:37
Speaker 1: Tampa seems to be doing great every year. If I'm
17:41
Speaker 1: not mistaken, this year, the best record in baseball is
17:44
Speaker 1: the Detroit Tigers. The Milwaukee Brewers have been successful pretty
17:47
Speaker 1: much year after year. If you look at the standings
17:51
Speaker 1: over since like twenty ten. In the top I looked
17:54
Speaker 1: at this the other day, in the top eight, teams
17:57
Speaker 1: are the best record. You're going to see Cleveland, You're
17:58
Speaker 1: going to see Milwaukee, You're going to see you going
18:01
Speaker 1: to see Tampa, You're going to see Baltimore. So, you know, teams,
18:06
Speaker 1: and particularly with the expanded playoffs, I mean, you do
18:08
Speaker 1: have teams at all levels, small market teams who were
18:13
Speaker 1: able to be to be competitive. In the last twenty
18:18
Speaker 1: five years, the team with the top payroll has won
18:21
Speaker 1: the World Series four times. Okay, So the notion that
18:25
Speaker 1: there's a crisis, I mean, I remember, and I know
18:27
Speaker 1: you guys remember it was only a year ago that
18:30
Speaker 1: we had Arizona and Texas in the World Series, and
18:34
Speaker 1: I think Arizona had the eighth ice payroll and Texas
18:37
Speaker 1: had the eighteenth ice payroll, So I think the league
18:41
Speaker 1: is kind of weaponizing. Oh my god, the Dodgers won
18:45
Speaker 1: the World Series last year and they signed a bunch
18:47
Speaker 1: of players. Some of those players, by the way, you know, anybody,
18:50
Speaker 1: anybody could have signed to a fan in a small market.
18:56
Speaker 1: And of course, if you look at other sports, I mean,
18:58
Speaker 1: we're all fans of other sports. You see the Patriots
19:02
Speaker 1: who made eight straight AFC finals in a cap system.
19:07
Speaker 1: Hockey has had three repeat winners in the last few years.
19:11
Speaker 1: Baseball hasn't had a repeat winner in twenty six years.
19:14
Speaker 1: So again I think the whole premise is wrong to
19:18
Speaker 1: fans in small markets. I would say, look, competition is
19:21
Speaker 1: crucial for us, crucial for players. Our market system that
19:24
Speaker 1: we have, it's not perfect by any means, but it
19:27
Speaker 1: relies on competition to the extent we have teams that
19:31
Speaker 1: are unwilling to compete. It's not because the Dodgers went
19:35
Speaker 1: out and signed some players. I mean, that doesn't explain
19:37
Speaker 1: why the Pittsburgh Pirates, for example, don't go out and
19:42
Speaker 1: spend money. It's not because the Dodgers spend money. There
19:44
Speaker 1: are other reasons why they don't do that. Now. We
19:47
Speaker 1: have proposed in the past, and I'm sure we'll propose
19:49
Speaker 1: again incentives ways to try and ensure that teams do
19:55
Speaker 1: spend the money they get in revenue sharing. To reward
19:57
Speaker 1: teams for being competitive, we proposed last time in bargaining
20:02
Speaker 1: that small market teams that I think finished over five
20:05
Speaker 1: hundred and made the playoffs we get extra draft picks.
20:09
Speaker 1: The league wasn't interested. And by the way, small market
20:11
Speaker 1: teams already get massive amounts of revenue sharing, They get
20:16
Speaker 1: an equal share of central revenues they get from what
20:19
Speaker 1: they call the Commissioner's Discretionary Fund, and they get advantages
20:23
Speaker 1: in the systems. Small market teams have built in advantages
20:26
Speaker 1: in our system, whether with respect to international pool money
20:30
Speaker 1: or or draft picks. So there are there are already
20:34
Speaker 1: lots of things in there that are being done to
20:37
Speaker 1: try and make sure teams can be competitive. And as
20:40
Speaker 1: they said, small market teams, many of them have proven
20:43
Speaker 1: that they can be competitive. And so look, I think
20:45
Speaker 1: I think what the cap gives some owners is an
20:47
Speaker 1: all purpose excuse. Hey, I'd like to spend more, but
20:51
Speaker 1: I can't you know, it's fundamentally anti competitive. But again,
20:56
Speaker 1: we have lots of things in our system already and
21:00
Speaker 1: and things that we have proposed and will propost is
21:02
Speaker 1: designed to incentivize competition and not reward teams that don't
21:07
Speaker 1: want to compete.
21:10
Speaker 4: I have to ask this question man for Rob, I
21:12
Speaker 4: might call Rob because we took on the phone and
21:14
Speaker 4: he told me to call him Rob. So Rob said
21:17
Speaker 4: that there should be a deadline for signing free agents.
21:21
Speaker 4: Why why does there have to be a deadline so
21:22
Speaker 4: you can put all the pressure on the players to
21:24
Speaker 4: make them not want to Oh gosh, February first is
21:27
Speaker 4: the deadline and the team just sit back and wait,
21:28
Speaker 4: and then there's a feeding frenzy on Oh I got
21:31
Speaker 4: to take this job for less money in this job, right,
21:33
Speaker 4: So why would we ever want as players a deadline
21:36
Speaker 4: on a signing for a free agency. It seems like
21:38
Speaker 4: a counterintuitive to me if you're a player.
21:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so that's an issue that's come up.
21:45
Speaker 1: And we've heard this from the league and they've said
21:47
Speaker 1: it publicly. They've said, Oh, wouldn't it be great, you know,
21:50
Speaker 1: the winter meetings would be really exciting, And look how exciting.
21:53
Speaker 1: It is in the cap sports. I mean, you know,
21:55
Speaker 1: in the cap sports it's a game of musical chairs,
21:59
Speaker 1: and yes, teams, you know, only certain teams have room,
22:02
Speaker 1: and it gives them a lot of leverage. To the
22:05
Speaker 1: extent this has come up in bargaining. You know, we've
22:08
Speaker 1: talked to our players, we've talked to agents to say, hey,
22:11
Speaker 1: how do you think this would actually work, you know,
22:14
Speaker 1: in practice, And what we've heard, I'm going to say
22:16
Speaker 1: unanimously is that that would give more leverage to the
22:20
Speaker 1: clubs than to the players. Just like you're saying, yes,
22:23
Speaker 1: our free agent system drags, you know, drags along. Yes,
22:27
Speaker 1: there are players that you know have to have to
22:30
Speaker 1: wait until late in the game to get contracts. But
22:33
Speaker 1: again it's been pretty unanimous, you know, when we talk
22:37
Speaker 1: to agents, for example, that having a free agent deadline
22:41
Speaker 1: would not be would not be good for players. Now,
22:43
Speaker 1: there are other ways you could try and incentivize early signings.
22:47
Speaker 1: You could offer a team that signs during the winter meetings,
22:50
Speaker 1: you know, a compensatory draft pick or something like that
22:52
Speaker 1: competitive balance pick. There are things that you can do.
22:56
Speaker 1: But again, the league so far has been focused on
22:59
Speaker 1: a free agent deadline. Which we don't think is in
23:02
Speaker 1: the interests of players, and nor does anybody else on
23:06
Speaker 1: our side.
23:06
Speaker 2: So, Bruce question on competitive I would say actions by
23:13
Speaker 2: both sides to just help drop interest. Actually on the
23:17
Speaker 2: trade front, this one I think is important to me.
23:20
Speaker 2: Has the union stance been that trading draft picks would
23:25
Speaker 2: be good for the game? And if so, I believe
23:29
Speaker 2: that MLB hasn't been on board. But obviously you're a
23:32
Speaker 2: better source for this. But what do you know on
23:34
Speaker 2: that front?
23:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think consistently this union I can
23:40
Speaker 1: only go back to when I started in twenty eighteen,
23:43
Speaker 1: although I'm familiar with some things that came before that.
23:47
Speaker 1: I think this Union has consistently been in favor of
23:50
Speaker 1: teams being able to trade draft picks Rule four draft picks,
23:55
Speaker 1: and the reason is because we actually think it would
23:57
Speaker 1: help competition. We think it would help, you know, the
24:00
Speaker 1: small market teams that have those those valuable draft picks,
24:04
Speaker 1: and they should have the flexibility to trade them if
24:08
Speaker 1: it's in the best interest of the team. I think
24:12
Speaker 1: many teams would probably agree, But the league, for whatever reason,
24:16
Speaker 1: has to date, been against allowing clubs the ability to
24:20
Speaker 1: trade Rule four draft picks. We proposed the last time
24:24
Speaker 1: it was rejected. You know, I don't want to say
24:28
Speaker 1: commit to much in the next round of bargaining, but
24:30
Speaker 1: I feel pretty confident that we would propose that again
24:33
Speaker 1: because again we think it's actually beneficial to competitive balance.
24:38
Speaker 2: Hey, let's do a little player spotlight thanks to Arena
24:41
Speaker 2: Club AJ Give me a player this season that you
24:44
Speaker 2: think is underrated and you might want to try and
24:46
Speaker 2: grab his card.
24:47
Speaker 1: James Would.
24:47
Speaker 4: I don't know that he's underrated, but Washington National's superstar
24:51
Speaker 4: in the making, and the first slab pack I ever
24:53
Speaker 4: opened had him in it, his rookie card, and the
24:55
Speaker 4: value is only going to go up and up and up.
24:57
Speaker 4: And I'm not going to sell it Kwie yet.
24:58
Speaker 3: Scott.
24:58
Speaker 4: I'm going to hold on to because after he continues
25:01
Speaker 4: to hit big homers and put up the stats make
25:03
Speaker 4: All Star teams, it's going to get more expensive for
25:06
Speaker 4: someone to buy.
25:06
Speaker 3: For me, this is his.
25:07
Speaker 2: First full season in the majors. Keep that in mind.
25:10
Speaker 2: I think he's underrated. He's on a Nationals team that's
25:13
Speaker 2: may getting enough attention.
25:15
Speaker 3: He might underrated.
25:16
Speaker 4: When he makes the All Star team this year, They're
25:18
Speaker 4: not going to be underrated.
25:19
Speaker 2: That helps he's been intentionally walked four times in a game. Anyway,
25:22
Speaker 2: if you want to try and find a wood rookie card,
25:25
Speaker 2: go check out slab packs on Arena Club and right
25:27
Speaker 2: now you can get twenty percent off your first slab pack.
25:30
Speaker 2: Or if you just want to go with a card purchase,
25:31
Speaker 2: go to Arena club dot com. Slash foul, use code foul.
25:35
Speaker 2: If you buy, sell, trade, collect, go for it bers
25:38
Speaker 2: And you mentioned earlier in our conversation how owners can't
25:42
Speaker 2: talk to someone like you they'll get in trouble, which
25:45
Speaker 2: I think is hilarious.
25:45
Speaker 1: By the way, that's what That's what they That's what
25:47
Speaker 1: they told me. That's what I was told.
25:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's funny and it does make sense. Hey,
25:52
Speaker 2: if you haven't had a conversation with someone, then that
25:55
Speaker 2: would probably line it up. Since you've been obviously at
25:58
Speaker 2: many big MLB events. So my question is do you
26:01
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of dissension among the ownership side
26:04
Speaker 2: when they meet and they try and come up with
26:06
Speaker 2: what they're going to throw your way? You know, often
26:09
Speaker 2: I've heard that there's a ton of dissension and then
26:13
Speaker 2: everything has to result in a thirty to zero vote
26:15
Speaker 2: so that when you come out publicly or like, see,
26:17
Speaker 2: we were all on the same side on every single thing.
26:20
Speaker 2: So do you feel like there's dissension on things like
26:23
Speaker 2: even the lottery, which I thought was an awesome addition
26:25
Speaker 2: and can prevent teams from tanking or at least punish
26:28
Speaker 2: them if they're just getting number one picks year after year.
26:34
Speaker 1: I want to speculate about what goes on in their meetings.
26:37
Speaker 1: I wish I knew. I wish I had a source
26:40
Speaker 1: for that, but I don't. But I think it's no
26:43
Speaker 1: secret that you know there are I mean, I'm sure
26:46
Speaker 1: there are divisions among their owners, whether that's along economic
26:50
Speaker 1: lines or other lines, and I think we all know
26:53
Speaker 1: that there are. And hey, look our players. I mean,
26:55
Speaker 1: you know, we have twelve hundred major leaguers and five
26:58
Speaker 1: thousand minor leaguers and of course you know you're going
27:02
Speaker 1: to get people disagreeing and that's and that's healthy, and
27:04
Speaker 1: we encourage that from our players. So again, I don't
27:07
Speaker 1: doubt that that takes place. I do believe that it
27:12
Speaker 1: requires a three quarters vote on their side to approve
27:14
Speaker 1: any collective bargaining agreement. So I think if you just
27:17
Speaker 1: do the math that means that relatively small number of
27:20
Speaker 1: teams can can hold up an agreement, and you know
27:24
Speaker 1: that dynamic, you know, probably plays itself out. Excuse me
27:27
Speaker 1: from time to time, but yeah, I you know, I've
27:32
Speaker 1: probably heard some of the same things you have. But again,
27:34
Speaker 1: without you know, first same information, I don't really want
27:37
Speaker 1: to speculate about their their internal conversations. I mean, again,
27:41
Speaker 1: we have had I alluded to this before. I mean
27:43
Speaker 1: we have had recently, you know, some owners coming out
27:47
Speaker 1: publicly and speaking in favor of a salary cap, which
27:50
Speaker 1: is I think a new thing at least in you know,
27:53
Speaker 1: I can't go back in ninety four, but at least recently.
27:55
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that before. There was an article recently
27:59
Speaker 1: that staid one owner one would like to see not
28:02
Speaker 1: just a salary cap for player salaries, but for coaches
28:05
Speaker 1: salaries and scouting salaries and technology spend so that you know,
28:09
Speaker 1: clubs can't outcompete each other. I thought that was interesting,
28:13
Speaker 1: So I think you are seeing more of that. But
28:15
Speaker 1: but otherwise, you know, I want to really speculate.
28:18
Speaker 4: Okay, by the way, you want to know how to
28:20
Speaker 4: find out what they're talking about. Just hire X owners right,
28:22
Speaker 4: like guys that just sold the team, just bring them in.
28:25
Speaker 4: The commission is doing that with players, so then they
28:27
Speaker 4: get to hear what you know, all the players are saying,
28:29
Speaker 4: So I want to just hire some X owners on
28:31
Speaker 4: the players associations, I say, hey, with lost negotiations, we
28:34
Speaker 4: talked about X, Y Z, and then you have all
28:36
Speaker 4: the answers, Bruce, seems like a simple solution.
28:39
Speaker 1: We can talk about that offline.
28:43
Speaker 2: It sounds like there's some stories there good luck breaking,
28:47
Speaker 2: but that's good guys pleasure.
28:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, one more for you just fans.
28:56
Speaker 2: Obviously, you know, some of this stuff gets really granular,
28:58
Speaker 2: and fans are just like, hey, I want to watch baseball.
29:01
Speaker 2: So are you concerned when you hear the commissioner and
29:06
Speaker 2: owners talk about how it's almost a guarantee that we're
29:10
Speaker 2: going to have some type of lockout. I know Tony Clark,
29:12
Speaker 2: your colleague has mentioned this before. The stance is, why
29:16
Speaker 2: the heck would you want to stop the sport, even
29:18
Speaker 2: in the off season, for any period of time, right?
29:23
Speaker 1: Ye, I mean, look, it's it's it's it's up to
29:25
Speaker 1: the owners whether to do a lockout or not. They
29:29
Speaker 1: they did it last time and I've seen the comments
29:33
Speaker 1: that suggests that they're definitely going to do it this time.
29:37
Speaker 1: It doesn't surprise me, but it does suggest that, you know,
29:40
Speaker 1: maybe maybe, I mean, what are we doing then for
29:42
Speaker 1: the months before that when we're supposedly bargaining in good faith?
29:46
Speaker 1: If a lockout is a short thing, I mean to
29:49
Speaker 1: be clear, a lockout is a weapon. So a weapon
29:51
Speaker 1: that management uses in the labor dispute is their decision
29:55
Speaker 1: to lock the doors, close, close the camps last time,
29:59
Speaker 1: as you remain members in the lockout, they took all
30:01
Speaker 1: the players pictures off the website and so that they're
30:04
Speaker 1: not promoting the game. It's it's a bad thing for
30:07
Speaker 1: the games, the bad thing for fans. It's a bad
30:09
Speaker 1: thing obviously for players and their families. You know, you
30:13
Speaker 1: hope and expect that both sites come in ready to
30:16
Speaker 1: negotiate in good faith with no preconceived notions. But you know,
30:20
Speaker 1: the reality is is that a lockout is their main
30:24
Speaker 1: economic weapon, and so certainly certainly we'll be prepared for
30:31
Speaker 1: that if that's how it goes.
30:33
Speaker 3: All rights.
30:34
Speaker 4: Last thing, I'm a baseball fan obviously grew up played baseball. Well,
30:39
Speaker 4: I love watching baseball, love talking about baseball. Give us
30:41
Speaker 4: some give us some hope, though, Please give us some
30:44
Speaker 4: hope that there won't be a lockout, and give us
30:47
Speaker 4: you know, I know you're if I ask you, you're
30:49
Speaker 4: not going to give me a percentage because you don't
30:50
Speaker 4: negotiate like that. But give me some hope on why
30:53
Speaker 4: there won't be a lockout and how we can get
30:55
Speaker 4: this done, because this is the first This is honestly
30:58
Speaker 4: the first negotiation I can remember. And I was there
31:01
Speaker 4: in ninety four when the strike. I got drafted that year.
31:03
Speaker 4: My first spring training was replacement players and all that
31:06
Speaker 4: whole mess. And then I was there in two thousand
31:08
Speaker 4: and two and we had different buses, one going to
31:10
Speaker 4: the field, one going to the airport in case there
31:12
Speaker 4: was a strike, and then we settled at the deadline.
31:15
Speaker 4: And obviously I missed the one a few years back
31:17
Speaker 4: when the lockout happened and all that. But I've been
31:19
Speaker 4: through all this before. I've been in negotiating offices in
31:23
Speaker 4: Chicago with Jerry Reinsdorf sitting across from me, and we
31:25
Speaker 4: had a bunch of players and they brought in their
31:27
Speaker 4: people and we sat there for hours before a game
31:29
Speaker 4: and talked but give me some hope as to why
31:32
Speaker 4: this one happened, because this is the first negotiation I
31:34
Speaker 4: can remember where everybody is saying, Oh, there's going to
31:37
Speaker 4: be this, there's gonna be this, It's going to be awful.
31:40
Speaker 3: Why does it have to be awful? Why can't we
31:42
Speaker 3: just get along?
31:45
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, look, as they said, a lockout of
31:47
Speaker 1: something they do, it's not something we do. You know.
31:51
Speaker 1: The only thing I could say to try and try
31:53
Speaker 1: and address that with you or any fans is we
31:56
Speaker 1: don't want to work, suth, we don't want to miss games.
31:59
Speaker 1: In fact, what's interesting people seem to not realize this,
32:03
Speaker 1: Baseball since the ninety four strike has not missed a
32:07
Speaker 1: single game and has had far fewer work stoppages than
32:09
Speaker 1: the other sports. In fact, one of the things that
32:12
Speaker 1: find educate players on is, you know, the salary cap
32:15
Speaker 1: actually guarantees more lockouts, more work stoppages, more miss games,
32:19
Speaker 1: because the history in the cap sports is once they
32:22
Speaker 1: get you in that system, the owners just keep locking
32:24
Speaker 1: the players out to get the players percentage down. There
32:27
Speaker 1: were four lockouts in the NBA since nineteen ninety four,
32:30
Speaker 1: two of which miss significant parts of the season. Right,
32:34
Speaker 1: So you know, I look as I always have hope,
32:39
Speaker 1: as you say, you know, I think we've got reasonable
32:41
Speaker 1: people on both sides, hopefully. I don't think it's in
32:44
Speaker 1: the economic interest of the owners or the game to
32:47
Speaker 1: shut down the game. They're making lots of money. I
32:50
Speaker 1: keep seeing, you know, just today I saw something record
32:54
Speaker 1: record ratings, you know, record attendants. They're making money, franchise
32:59
Speaker 1: values going up, so there's no reason why it has
33:02
Speaker 1: to happen. We will be there whenever the other side
33:07
Speaker 1: is ready to negotiate, and we will be there with creativity,
33:12
Speaker 1: and we will be there doing everything we can to
33:15
Speaker 1: try and kind of avoid That is really the best
33:18
Speaker 1: I can say.
33:19
Speaker 2: Well, Bruce, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate the
33:22
Speaker 2: extended time. This was super helpful. And you know, we
33:24
Speaker 2: get these fan questions all the time, so it's great
33:26
Speaker 2: to have someone on the inside of these conversations.
33:29
Speaker 1: Scott.
33:30
Speaker 4: But Scott cap sports. They never have lockouts and they
33:33
Speaker 4: never have strikes. Oh wait, they have way more because
33:36
Speaker 4: it's so much easier than for the owners to ask
33:38
Speaker 4: for more. The hockey players gave back twenty five percent
33:41
Speaker 4: one year. They gave back twenty five percent of their
33:44
Speaker 4: guaranteed salaries. This is why it's so important, Bruce, for
33:47
Speaker 4: to have you on and to get both sides of this,
33:49
Speaker 4: because so many times out there we just hear from
33:51
Speaker 4: Rob and we never get to hear the players side.
33:53
Speaker 3: So thank you. I have so many more questions, guys.
33:56
Speaker 3: We can talk for hours next time.
33:58
Speaker 2: Next time, Bruce, will you come back at some point when.
34:00
Speaker 3: This heats up.
34:02
Speaker 1: I have to check with my boss, but I don't
34:04
Speaker 1: see why not.
34:05
Speaker 2: Okay, awesome, thanks again, Bruce, really appreciate the time. Thank you, guys,
34:10
Speaker 2: And yes, great point there. Aj Also, by the way,
34:14
Speaker 2: for people that are going to watch us later on
34:16
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, it's players that are on the show, Yeah,
34:18
Speaker 2: you're right. It is players that are on the show
34:20
Speaker 2: who asked Rob Manfred directly to join us, and the
34:23
Speaker 2: invitation is open. I know someone from the league is
34:26
Speaker 2: definitely watching right now. We would absolutely love to have
34:29
Speaker 2: Rob join us on the show. The invitation is more
34:32
Speaker 2: than open. Or anybody that's involved in those negotiations, we
34:35
Speaker 2: would love to have you on and ask the same
34:37
Speaker 2: damn questions. So there's not a narrative here, there's an
34:40
Speaker 2: opinion for sure. For example, someone Steven in the chat
34:45
Speaker 2: or who is it Michael in the chat? So they're
34:47
Speaker 2: very curious to hear someone like Kratz's opinion, since skrats
34:50
Speaker 2: you weren't getting these massive contracts, And do you think
34:53
Speaker 2: Manfred has a point? Oh, we're costing you, costing yourself
34:57
Speaker 2: so much money. You guys could make so much more.
35:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I can't. Okay, So this is negotiations between
35:04
Speaker 3: two sides. I can't trust somebody who was the one
35:08
Speaker 3: that took that money away. You could have easily if
35:12
Speaker 3: if you're if you're pandering, because I think Rob's pandering
35:15
Speaker 3: to type of player like me. The eighty five percent
35:18
Speaker 3: of players who don't ever reach free agency don't ever
35:21
Speaker 3: make multi millions of dollars. If that was the case,
35:24
Speaker 3: if you could have gotten me more money, why would
35:27
Speaker 3: I want to listen to you, Because you could have.
35:31
Speaker 3: You could have given it to us, You could have
35:33
Speaker 3: made it more economical for us, because that, in my opinion,
35:38
Speaker 3: would have grown the game. Pandering to the people that
35:41
Speaker 3: you didn't pay and then say, hey, you know what,
35:44
Speaker 3: come on over and I would have gotten you paid more. No,
35:48
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna trust like what. No, I'm not gonna
35:50
Speaker 3: trust you. I can't. I can't, And they have to
35:53
Speaker 3: come at it a different way. They have to come
35:55
Speaker 3: at it in a sense of I'm gonna help you
35:58
Speaker 3: guys make the game more competitive. I'm going to help
36:02
Speaker 3: you guys be paid more equally. And we're also going
36:07
Speaker 3: to show you that the other teams that don't try
36:09
Speaker 3: to compete, that don't go and get free agents that
36:12
Speaker 3: are available, not the big time, not the seven hundred
36:15
Speaker 3: million dollar players, but the other guys. Then I might
36:19
Speaker 3: start listening. Then I might start because that's all I
36:21
Speaker 3: was in the game for, was competing.
36:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kratz, I promise you this. From the other set,
36:26
Speaker 2: they don't give a crap. They've got one goal. Get
36:29
Speaker 2: as much of the.
36:30
Speaker 3: Pot as possible.
36:31
Speaker 2: That is the goal. I promise you that. To a
36:33
Speaker 2: t A couple other quick questions we'll get to maybe
36:36
Speaker 2: later on in another one of the breaks. Does abs
36:39
Speaker 2: need to be agreed upon by MLBPA, I don't know.
36:42
Speaker 2: It doesn't.
36:42
Speaker 3: There's just a committee.
36:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good question.
36:45
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter. If you notice in the rules committee
36:48
Speaker 4: there's five owner side four players, so.
36:49
Speaker 3: It automatically goes through the older one.
36:51
Speaker 4: Anyways, it's not even a fair comite,