Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to (father and son) Jon & Eddie Arnold about their choice of Attack of the Cybermen (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to (father and son) Jon & Eddie Arnold about their choice of Attack of the Cybermen (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:36
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife.
• 0:39
  Good God, I almost forgot what I was doing there for a second.
• 0:42
  There's so many of these things now.
• 0:43
  Book clubs strictly commentaries.
• 0:46
  What? Which one are we doing today,
• 0:47
  Eddie? We're doing autometry right.
• 0:51
  Thank you very much. Welcome back to a Hamster with
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  Blood pen dice, the Doctor Who Commentary podcast, father and
• 1:00
  son back again with opposing opinions on on a Doctor Who
• 1:07
  story now. And I'm very pleased to say with
• 1:09
  the correct opinion I have here today, Eddie Arnold.
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  Hello, Eddie. Hello.
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  How are you doing today? I'm doing all right.
• 1:18
  Thank you. Joe, how are you doing?
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  Well, you know, I've been at work today, but I've had
• 1:22
  something to look forward to all day because I don't know if
• 1:25
  you're much of a Six Doctor fan, but I should let you know now.
• 1:28
  I am. I did quite like Sex Doctor on
• 1:32
  my watch. Through Oh, will you tell me
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  why, please? It's like, I really like it,
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  sort of bombastic personality. Like every time Perry
• 1:42
  crystallizing, it's just like it has an outburst and I I really
• 1:47
  enjoy that. And it's like, yeah, also
• 1:50
  controversially, I really like the costume.
• 1:52
  Well I was going to ask you about this because I think it
• 1:55
  can be a bit hit or miss, more of a hit these days than a miss,
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  but it was more of a miss back in the day.
• 2:01
  Why do you like that multi coloured monstrosity?
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  Just so colorful and quirky and it actually feels like I
• 2:09
  wouldn't see a human wear that. I like it.
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  Have you got a copy of that coat?
• 2:15
  I do not. I'll put it on your wish list.
• 2:17
  You know you might get it for Christmas.
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  Yeah, Christmas, please. Yeah, I'm getting it now.
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  They ain't cheap, you know, John.
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  I know. We can get, we can get him done.
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  He's worth it sometimes. I should also say hello John,
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  how are you today? I'm not too bad, I'd beg to
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  obviously have a terrible two hours being insulted by my son.
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  Now can I ask, is this an insight in school life together?
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  Yes. I thought you were going to say
• 2:50
  this was just the two of you playing up for the camera.
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  No, this is what Eddie's like 24/7.
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  Maybe 23, six. I leave.
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  I leave you an hour to rest. Oh, bless you.
• 3:02
  Well, you. Know when's that hour?
• 3:03
  I miss you. If you're nice for an hour, you
• 3:05
  might get that code. All right.
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  Yeah, yeah. Look, we're doing attack
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  assignment today and looking at the Six Doctors era as a whole,
• 3:15
  I mean, I can see revelation of the dialects there.
• 3:18
  I can see the two doctors there. I can see something fabulous
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  like terror of the Vervoy said. No, we're doing attack of the
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  Sidemen. Why is this?
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  Will someone explain to me? But I don't like revelation of
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  the dialects. Oh, you shocked me.
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  Two doctors is my favorite sex doctor, and I think my father
• 3:38
  agrees that it's one of the best ones.
• 3:41
  I'm not sure though. And then yeah.
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  And then ver voice I like, but it'd be nothing without hearing
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  Ronnie Langford's high pitched scream at the end of episode 1,
• 3:50
  so we can't be doing that with no sound.
• 3:52
  If you give me too many controversial opinions, say,
• 3:55
  you'll hear me doing those, Bonnie Langford screams.
• 3:57
  All right. I don't anyone can scream like
• 4:02
  her though. All right, well then, before we
• 4:04
  go into episode 1, can I ask you, Eddie, First of all, give
• 4:07
  me one reason why you're keen on this.
• 4:11
  And John, give me one reason why you're not.
• 4:15
  Then let's start with Eddie. I quite like Cesso just because
• 4:19
  I'm usually second side men stories.
• 4:21
  Revenge of the Simon's the only one I dislike, and this one I do
• 4:24
  quite like except for the fact that it messes up with tell offs
• 4:28
  and tumor side men and whatnot, but it's like other than that I
• 4:30
  do quite like it. OK, John.
• 4:34
  It's you're coming back with season opener, you want new
• 4:37
  viewers and you come up with the fan wankiest possible story you
• 4:42
  could ever come up with so. Yeah, what worries in the deep
• 4:47
  are you talking about there? Both.
• 4:49
  Both of them, yeah. It's two seasons on the trot.
• 4:51
  They've done this and 03. There's Arkham Infinity before
• 4:53
  that as well. So you 4 Castro Valva with the.
• 4:58
  Yeah, yeah, 22 our episodes hit the TARDIS.
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  Yeah. So Eric say we didn't know what
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  he's doing, basically. OK, So what about this one that
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  is in particularly agreed? Oh, God, it's it's the fact it's
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  I don't mind the continuity driven story.
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  God knows, you know, we, we've done enough books and episodes
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  on this to know I don't mind that.
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  But this just is a complete mess which just goes nowhere.
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  It's all over the place. And, and yeah, it has even for
• 5:33
  the Collins era, they're a few laps in town.
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  I'd like Colin, I like Nicola, but I think they're working on
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  the right dog of a story. You.
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  You know, your son's shaking his head down there.
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  He always seems not. It's a grand.
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  Well, I'm extremely pleased to say that today.
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  Last time it was me and John who loved Midnight and Edgy was
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  against. This time me and Eddie are one
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  and John, you're over there in the corner on your own because
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  like I thought, all right, there are a couple of flaws with
• 6:06
  Attack of the assignment. There is one scene in particular
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  in episode 2 where they're in the TARDIS cupboard and
• 6:12
  rehashing a whole ton of continuity from Tip Blaney and
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  other stories. But I think it's stylish as
• 6:19
  hell. This.
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  I think it's super directed by Matthew Robinson and it moves on
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  a lake and the actions relentless.
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  And I thought I'd say there's some likeable characters along
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  the way. There's one and that's that
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  fabulous cry on woman that the doctors trapped with in Episode
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  2. And then there's also a yeah,
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  there's a load of cannon fodder as well, like, you know, Brian
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  Glover and people are, I don't know.
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  I just think this is like, it's, can we say it's fun when people
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  are getting their hands crushed and, and well, did you like this
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  sort of violence? It's not what I'd expect from
• 6:57
  Doctor Who usually, but it's fine I guess.
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  I mean, I mean, how do you feel about that?
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  Blast us all over the floor in Episode 2?
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  It's a bit much. Yeah, it is a bit much and it's
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  like sick, sickly for that sort of show.
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  It's like it wouldn't have been out of place in season 7, but
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  season 22, it feels a bit dated. It feels like a bit sort of.
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  It shouldn't be there in that. Do you think because one of the
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  criticisms at the time was that to paper over the fact that it
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  was a bit cheap, that they were put in lots of violence on the
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  screen to try and sort of for the show to get attention, Do
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  you think that's true? Do you think that was happening
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  right at this point? What attention seeking with
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  violence? Well, I mean, there's a lot of
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  it in 22. Yeah, it's like, well, I mean,
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  to be fair, virus is just. It's like only thing as well
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  with all that in that. Well, yeah, it's like literally
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  every story has some sort of violence in one way or another,
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  unless we're talking about Time Lash, which is just a bunch of
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  shoddy effects, but. I still got people turning into
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  skeletons though in episode 2, things like that.
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  It's like say, at least it's not as bad as Stones of Blood with
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  that. I think Stones of Blood is way
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  worse on that. That's very true.
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  Well, I'll tell you what. All right, let's let's go into
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  episode 1. You and me, Eddie, will see if
• 8:24
  we revise our opinion as we go. Little spoiler, we won't.
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  And, well, let's see if we can convince your father of the gems
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  of Attack of the Cybermen. What do you reckon?
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  Yeah, I'm sure we can. But it's like then again still
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  after like several decades one of his friends hasn't been able
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  to convince him on the 10th planet, so I doubt a way to
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  convince him for two or two. Hours.
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  Which friend is that please? I'm not sure it's one of his
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  friends, you know. Oh, OK, now you did this in the
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  last episode. You know, I I do appreciate that
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  you don't name and shame give me the Goss, but you don't give me
• 8:58
  the details and then the person can remain anonymous.
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  Yeah. Although I suspect it's at Jr.
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  S fault and. It's not Jr.
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  OK, well look Eddie, will you do me the great honour please of
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  giving us a free second count in to press play on attack
• 9:15
  assignment? Hopefully my countdown doesn't
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  go wrong here. 321 go. Off we go, big sting stars and
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  colour. The 80s are here.
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  Through a filter. Can I ask what platforms you 2
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  are watching on? I'm on the iPlayer.
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  I know it's delightful. It doesn't make my life easier
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  than having to swap out DVDs every 5 seconds.
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  These things. Attack of the Simon.
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  Do you think it's a good idea? Yes.
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  In caps. Well, it's dramatic, you know.
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  Yeah. Colin, he likes to announce his
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  presence. I don't know if you've noticed
• 10:02
  fellas, but attack absolute blood pen knife comes up in huge
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  block capitals as well. You know every time an episode
• 10:09
  comes out. Do you think that starting with
• 10:15
  a Cyberman story Eddie as your first story of the season is a
• 10:19
  good attention grabber? Well, it depends.
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  Likely it grabbed back all the previous fans, sure, but because
• 10:26
  say, like last time they had a main story, a young teenage boy
• 10:30
  was basically just killed in a giant explosion with dinosaurs.
• 10:33
  But it's like funny viewers. It's like, who on earth are
• 10:36
  these guys? Did you know that this is the
• 10:42
  highest rated single episode of Doctor Who since the End of Time
• 10:47
  Flight? So the last two seasons nothing
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  scored a rating as high as Now The things before Your father
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  jumps in and says yes, we did lose 2 million people between
• 10:58
  episodes one and two. Regardless, nearly 9 million
• 11:03
  people watched this episode, so I guess it did its job right.
• 11:06
  Yeah, suppose it did grab the people back.
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  But say then again, if if we if we brought this forward to like
• 11:15
  nowadays statistics and where it would be probably like 3 million
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  people would be saying Doctor Who's dead.
• 11:21
  Even though it's got a really high viewership, it's still
• 11:23
  dead. Not not like 50 million viewers.
• 11:26
  That means it's dead. RIP Doctor Who.
• 11:28
  That's because that's all we say these days, you know.
• 11:31
  I mean, well, not me, but. But not me.
• 11:33
  I mean, have you listened to your dad's other podcast?
• 11:35
  That's all they ever say on that Doctor Who is dead.
• 11:40
  That's Dylan Reece. You know what he's like.
• 11:43
  He's a miserable sod. Which other podcast he has like
• 11:46
  1,000,000? Well, that's true.
• 11:48
  You're gonna have to start catching up with him now.
• 11:51
  What do you imagine we're doing here with all these wires
• 11:53
  spilling out the TARDIS walls? Well, not as many wires as I've
• 11:57
  got here, probably because my desk like full of wires right
• 12:01
  now. You.
• 12:01
  Haven't got a drink near you, have you?
• 12:02
  I hope. Well, unfortunately I have, so
• 12:06
  if anything goes wrong you'll be the first to know.
• 12:09
  I know I'll bloody say on the Zoom call.
• 12:11
  What? And he'll hear it from across
• 12:14
  the room or across the hall. Will you please be very careful
• 12:18
  with that drink then, please? It's away from.
• 12:20
  Cables. Yeah, If we disappear, certainly
• 12:22
  you know where we've gone all. Right, well let me ask you guys
• 12:25
  then about the outrageous colours on display in this
• 12:30
  scene. The Doctor's obviously in his
• 12:32
  multi coloured coat and Perry, who doesn't want to be missing
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  out on things, is wearing an electric pink leotard.
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  I didn't see anyone wearing those in the 80s.
• 12:43
  I have to say. Night So fitness videos.
• 12:46
  Well, you didn't see anyone wearing like bright pink shirts
• 12:50
  in any. There were colours but no, I've
• 12:54
  never seen him wearing that. Only JNT that was it.
• 12:57
  I've seen people wearing bright pink top, bright bright pink
• 13:00
  tops in the 80s. You weren't alive in the 80s,
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  was you? Yeah, I was watching videos.
• 13:06
  In the 80s. Really.
• 13:08
  No. I.
• 13:09
  Yeah, you can stop taking things that far back, but.
• 13:14
  You. Yeah, I was going to say, you're
• 13:17
  either using spectrox or, you know, a youth pill if you were
• 13:21
  alive in the 80s. So what are we doing here?
• 13:24
  What we do? We're trying to repair the
• 13:26
  chameleon circuit. Yeah.
• 13:27
  Yeah, it's like, I don't know why you couldn't have tried this
• 13:31
  a few seasons earlier, like maybe ages ago, but like we're,
• 13:35
  we're cool, I guess. I mean, would you want it stuck
• 13:39
  to stay fixed though? So would you like to go on
• 13:42
  without the police box exterior? No, I'd wanted to go in.
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  I wanted to go in a paint cleotage.
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  Oh no, can't go around in Perry. Good grief.
• 13:53
  Well, all I'm saying is compassion.
• 13:55
  Shaky camera. We love the shaky camera.
• 13:59
  Yeah, they love it. How many times does this camera
• 14:01
  appear when they're arriving? It's like this exact sort of
• 14:04
  thing appears in Time Lash as well.
• 14:07
  Eddie Ed you haven't seen Star Trek.
• 14:08
  It's every episode at least three times.
• 14:12
  Yeah, I know. I haven't seen Star Trek.
• 14:14
  Do you think I didn't know that? Yeah, but I mean, do you want to
• 14:17
  see Star Trek? That's the question.
• 14:20
  I've watched the episodes of it and it's bored me honestly.
• 14:22
  Oh. Dear, can I do the music,
• 14:26
  please? We just can pass it there.
• 14:28
  Down, down, down, down, down, down.
• 14:32
  OK, gangsters, Now what's going on?
• 14:34
  We've gone from people being attacked in the sewers to a
• 14:38
  TARDIS scene, and now we're hanging out with these gangsters
• 14:41
  doing a diamond robbery. What is occurring?
• 14:44
  Well, it's Litten. It's Morris Cole, Maurice Cole.
• 14:47
  But how good is Morris Cole? But.
• 14:49
  I mean smooth. Yeah, just got that sense of
• 14:53
  power, that stillness, you know, it it that was better than how
• 14:57
  was weigh in the 80s. He really was.
• 15:00
  I've never seen it, you know, I was still really no that I
• 15:03
  totally bypassed me. Did you like glossy 80s?
• 15:07
  Did you like Litten in Resurrection of the Daleks?
• 15:11
  All I remember him doing there is literally shooting people
• 15:14
  outside. That's that's because.
• 15:17
  That's basically everything that goes on in Resurrection, Yeah.
• 15:20
  Did you like that one? I think it was fine.
• 15:23
  I watched it literally on the day the Olympics started as
• 15:26
  well. So perfect timing.
• 15:27
  But yeah, can I just say when I was watching Sonic 3 back at
• 15:32
  start of January, they had a scene where they where the
• 15:35
  villains arrived in death towns and I was like, where's Leyton?
• 15:38
  He should be shooting everyone. I mean that's another violent 1
• 15:42
  isn't it? There?
• 15:43
  That's got a huge death count. Resurrection with Darling, I
• 15:46
  think. That's the biggest body count on
• 15:48
  screen, isn't it? Yeah, it's like 200 something.
• 15:52
  Similar to Reservoir Dogs or something like that.
• 15:55
  What is? Going on more than Reservoir
• 15:57
  Dogs. I think it's not the lightest
• 16:00
  period of Doctor Who. This is it.
• 16:02
  Well, I mean, I think the sex doctor is definitely more of an
• 16:05
  adult. Period.
• 16:07
  And yeah, he's wearing that coat.
• 16:09
  He's dressed like like a like a clown.
• 16:12
  Well, I mean it should have been that edgy teen phrase because
• 16:14
  obviously Colin Baker wanted to be like Christopher Eccleston,
• 16:18
  but say he got he got stuck wearing a clown outfit.
• 16:21
  Did you say it was his edgy teen phase?
• 16:24
  Because I love that idea that the six doctors sort of
• 16:26
  somewhere in the middle, He's a teenager at last.
• 16:29
  Yeah, season 21 is like babyface Davison essentially like you're
• 16:34
  growing up as a child, then then Sex doctor is just like you're
• 16:38
  very edgy teen phase and whatnot.
• 16:40
  And then McCoy is just I'm a depressed adult with nothing
• 16:45
  better to do than complain about life.
• 16:47
  I'll say that a man off my own heart again.
• 16:52
  But I love Nicola though, she's just.
• 16:55
  I'm not going to put any of this bullshit permanently.
• 16:59
  Oh God, here he goes against him.
• 17:00
  Yeah, she is playing it. Also if he is a teenager in
• 17:03
  there. But she equals her an ungrateful
• 17:06
  rich in that previous scene. I mean, it's a bit, I don't say
• 17:10
  toxic because that's a strong word, but it's a bit sort of
• 17:13
  rival, rival, wasn't it? It's snappy, isn't?
• 17:15
  It what you're saying they're rival and you're not even
• 17:18
  bringing up the fact that you literally tried strangling her
• 17:20
  in the last story? Oh, that's going to put a crimp
• 17:23
  on your friendship, isn't? It.
• 17:25
  And then it's just like we've completely forgotten it
• 17:27
  happened. He is.
• 17:28
  It's like, yeah, you may have strangled me, but it's a new
• 17:31
  story, so we completely forget everything that's happened last
• 17:33
  time. That is a bit of a problem
• 17:35
  though, isn't it? If you're going to start that
• 17:38
  way and then just move on to the next story like nothing's
• 17:42
  happened or that doesn't happen in real life, does it?
• 17:44
  I know it's not real life, but they're supposed to be real
• 17:47
  people. I feel it happens in Doctor Who
• 17:49
  most of the time. It's like I just go aside when
• 17:53
  it's under Russell T Davis and he has to build his masterful
• 17:55
  story up with a random few words or whatever.
• 17:58
  It's like literally none of the stories are just connected aside
• 18:00
  like Dalek stories or Sidemen stories or whatnot.
• 18:03
  I don't know. I don't get time for like this.
• 18:05
  There's the consequence of Abdrich's death.
• 18:07
  It's. Oh well, there we go.
• 18:09
  No, it's a consequence of getting stuck at Heathrow
• 18:12
  Airport and then next story just coming back, there's like.
• 18:17
  Most days you know Eddie T can leave in at the end of time.
• 18:19
  Flight upsets me more than Adric dying.
• 18:22
  At the end of. Paul Matthew Waterhouse Have you
• 18:27
  guys met Matthew? Bought house.
• 18:28
  No, I'd love to. Oh yeah, I've been on convention
• 18:31
  panels with it. What about Colin and Nicola?
• 18:34
  Have you met Colin and Nicola? Yes, I got a flush with Nicola
• 18:36
  at this year's gallery. Oh, how was she?
• 18:39
  Oh, she was. She was really nice.
• 18:40
  She complimented everyone's outfits.
• 18:42
  And there's like this one guy who was dressed up in her virus
• 18:45
  outfit and she said, oh, you perfected me.
• 18:48
  A guy did you say? Yeah, yeah.
• 18:51
  Not not in particularly good shape, but yeah.
• 18:55
  Oh, this was America, right? Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:58
  It all makes sense. Fair play to him, but absolutely
• 19:01
  carry having the balls that carry it off literally.
• 19:06
  I absolutely, I absolutely loved how she was just so nice to
• 19:10
  everyone. It's like, how could you?
• 19:12
  How could the doctor treat her so badly here?
• 19:15
  And you've got to think any of the people that are in that
• 19:17
  queue, you know, these geeks are, God bless her all that,
• 19:21
  she's being lovely to everybody. Mind you, she gets a tenner out
• 19:24
  of it and she £20. So it's not a bad way to earn a
• 19:28
  living. And I have met Colin before
• 19:30
  because I I got a picture in it, one of the London comic cons,
• 19:34
  but there were a few dodgy green screen moments so I think one of
• 19:39
  us ended up looking like we were floating.
• 19:41
  Oh yeah. I mean, I do genuinely float
• 19:44
  every time I see Colin because he's one of my favorite human
• 19:47
  beings on the planet. I mean, I think he as an
• 19:49
  ambassador for the show, he's glorious, Colin.
• 19:52
  Yeah, like he treats the show so nicely, even though the show's
• 19:55
  like, yeah, we're going to fire you because they you either fire
• 19:59
  him or the show gets cancelled. Yeah, sorry, I'm firing him.
• 20:02
  Bye. Well, OK, let's, let's address
• 20:06
  that just for a second. Not the firing, because we're
• 20:08
  still at the start of his rain here, but do you think he was
• 20:12
  done The Dirty in Doctor Who, like in his run, or do you think
• 20:15
  he had a good shot? He was.
• 20:18
  I think it's like, but it's like swiftly behind behind the scenes
• 20:24
  he was done dirty on screens. He's done perfectly well.
• 20:26
  I think like I genuinely, it's like there's very few stories I
• 20:34
  explicitly hate everything about.
• 20:37
  It's like there's even bits of the twin dilemma.
• 20:39
  I like shocker. No, it's about twins.
• 20:43
  However, I like as well, don't worry.
• 20:45
  It's like maybe the back half a bit, right?
• 20:47
  And it's mostly cold in if I want if.
• 20:48
  Yeah, true. Like I said, there may be some
• 20:51
  bits in episodes one and two where it's like everything but
• 20:54
  the strangling and and the twins, they should go die in a
• 20:58
  ditch. But it's like, say, the Doctor
• 21:01
  there is just like funny. It's like we're going to go live
• 21:04
  on a rock like space hobos, OK? And now I'm going to go strangle
• 21:09
  you, but you just strangled me a few minutes ago.
• 21:11
  Whatever. Yeah, that was a few minutes
• 21:15
  ago. All right.
• 21:16
  In fact, we can go 1 Better than throwing them in a ditch, Those
• 21:18
  twins. Remember, that fellow dies of
• 21:20
  the embolism, you know, with the green or like the green light on
• 21:23
  him. And he's like, what?
• 21:24
  The guy that the guy that we're apparently meant to know had a
• 21:27
  connection to the doctor, but we never knew of before.
• 21:30
  Oh, Azmat. Well, yeah.
• 21:34
  Now, John, I must ask you now, there's lots happening in the
• 21:37
  story. You know, there's been a murder
• 21:40
  so far. There's a diamond heist going
• 21:42
  on. The Doctor and Perry have got a
• 21:44
  mystery to solve. And they've just arrived.
• 21:47
  We've got some history in Halley's Comet.
• 21:49
  I mean, what's your issues? They haven't got the story yet.
• 21:53
  They've just walked out the TARDIS right this second.
• 21:57
  Again they met yet. 12 minutes and they walk.
• 22:00
  Out. Yes, you've managed to fix the
• 22:01
  comedian circuit. Look, look at that.
• 22:03
  TARDIS is just knackered. Do you think this is a problem
• 22:06
  of 45 minutes then? I think it's probably the way
• 22:09
  Eric, say, would write to 45 minutes things.
• 22:10
  Yes, because he takes episode 1 and he stretches it to 45
• 22:14
  minutes, which is basically, you know, episode 1 is where you
• 22:17
  introduce the world, you set all that you get, you get the view
• 22:20
  oriented. Yeah, you keep saying that, but
• 22:23
  what you keep saying is that he keeps shooting episode 1 like
• 22:25
  it's episode 1 and 4. That's what he said.
• 22:28
  Exactly. And then episodes 2-3 and four
• 22:31
  crammed into the other one. OK, well, we'll see.
• 22:35
  We'll put that to the test when we get to episode 2.
• 22:37
  I mean, I think you're probably right.
• 22:38
  It does move along that a lick Episode 2.
• 22:42
  But I love all this stuff in the sewers.
• 22:43
  I think this is super atmospheric.
• 22:45
  And for once in the 80's, the lights are down.
• 22:50
  Yeah, it's like, but in the 80s you could barely escape the
• 22:52
  lights. From what I know, it was all
• 22:55
  these flashy LED lights that you had to have everywhere.
• 22:58
  Well. Do you remember Warriors of the
• 23:00
  Deep that you know, flood lip base?
• 23:05
  Imagine if Warriors of the Deep looked like these things in the
• 23:07
  tunnels. It would have been so
• 23:08
  atmospheric. I still like.
• 23:11
  Worries and the Merkel wouldn't be so yeah, the Merkel wouldn't
• 23:14
  be quite so how should you put upon as it gets?
• 23:18
  By Janet Fielding. Well, you know, look, Eddie, I
• 23:21
  mean, everybody, you have to discover a flaw in everybody
• 23:25
  eventually. And your confession there that
• 23:27
  you like Warriors of the Day. Well, we're finally arrived.
• 23:35
  Look, Ian Levine's been at the script, the terrible Zodin,
• 23:39
  Tegan, all the continuities here.
• 23:41
  I mean, they were obsessed with continuity at this point,
• 23:44
  weren't they? But.
• 23:44
  Rather, rather, Ian Levine is very obsessed with continuation.
• 23:48
  But is it a problem? Ian Levine is a problem, yeah.
• 23:53
  Yes, indeed. Have you seen those AIS?
• 23:55
  Good grief. Oh yeah, it's just like, how
• 23:59
  does that look close to the absolute and the animation?
• 24:01
  It just looked like they're blabbering.
• 24:04
  Did you see that? That picture of Maverick Chen
• 24:07
  with his massive eyes bulging? I mean, it's the most chilling
• 24:10
  thing I've seen in years. What, like congratulations, he's
• 24:15
  finally managed to make something more chilling.
• 24:17
  But. A serious question though, but
• 24:20
  is the continuity, all these past elements of Doctor Who, and
• 24:23
  there's a lot of it in 22 Sideman Daleks, the Master, the
• 24:28
  other Doctor, the Sontarans, and then in the dialogue, like
• 24:32
  there's tons of continuity in this story going back to, you
• 24:36
  know, the William Hartnell sideman story.
• 24:38
  Is it a problem for the casual viewer at this point?
• 24:43
  And I'll throw that to both of you.
• 24:45
  It depends at which sort of casualty you're talking.
• 24:48
  If you're talking casualty like just joined, then it does get
• 24:52
  them to know the show a bit. But say it's like, what does it
• 24:55
  all mean in the context of the story?
• 24:57
  Probably for them it's like, say, to casualties who've been
• 25:01
  casually viewing for like more than like five years or so.
• 25:06
  That's fine, I say. If this was your first Doctor
• 25:10
  Who story, Yeah. So you switched on.
• 25:12
  I mean, you wasn't born at this point, but let's go with it for
• 25:15
  a second. Yeah.
• 25:15
  This was your first Doctor Who story and you were learning all
• 25:18
  of this continued about the past.
• 25:20
  Would it be a oh, I really want to learn more about this.
• 25:24
  This is all sounds really interesting.
• 25:25
  Or be What the hell are they talking about?
• 25:28
  It'd be both. Oh, that's a very diplomatic
• 25:31
  answer. Thank you.
• 25:33
  I think you're more interested in this kind of continuation
• 25:35
  though, when you're younger, though, when you're you go, oh,
• 25:37
  what's that? What's that?
• 25:38
  You want to learn more? Totally.
• 25:41
  It's when you get to an adult, you go is he getting away story
• 25:43
  and you think he wants it all mean.
• 25:45
  Yeah, that's the only point where you've gone to an adult
• 25:49
  father. It's Fairpoint what?
• 25:53
  Do you think, man? John, what's your personal
• 25:55
  opinion about the continuity at this point?
• 25:59
  I think it it substitutes itself for a story in places here
• 26:02
  that's. The toss lane as well.
• 26:04
  Yeah, toss Lane. The policeman from Resurrection
• 26:09
  under the Talix, Luton. Here's a chameleon circuit.
• 26:12
  Yeah, I, I do. I love the comedian circuit
• 26:15
  gagging. So that's great.
• 26:17
  Yeah. The TARDIS doesn't know what the
• 26:18
  hell it's turning itself into. That's that's the kind of
• 26:21
  circuit. It's turning itself into 1980
• 26:24
  fashion. I don't know.
• 26:26
  That's not 1980s fashion. That's free 1980s fashion.
• 26:30
  I mean, I could handle a bit of camp, but even I would have that
• 26:33
  cabinet in my house or wherever it was covered in flowers.
• 26:37
  Maybe 60 years ago you would. Do you think that like Poke as
• 26:42
  the comedian's like it is obviously John Nathan Turner
• 26:46
  going, oh, you know, the TARDIS is going to turn into whatever
• 26:49
  from now on to the fans and getting them all in a bit of a
• 26:52
  tizzy. Like, do you think that's a good
• 26:54
  approach? Watch it, imagine it just turn
• 26:58
  into a Hawaiian shit. I'll go with it for one story.
• 27:09
  Yeah, just so just introduce it, set it up.
• 27:13
  I don't think they set up a lot as continuity.
• 27:15
  Well, anything beyond, you know, oh, you remember in 19/8/1984,
• 27:21
  you know what Mundas will come around.
• 27:25
  Like, why do you need that? And The thing is you've stuck
• 27:28
  how he's commenting on top. It's putting in so many elements
• 27:33
  and not cooking them. It's like, you know, you Chuck a
• 27:36
  load of stuff on a plate and call it a recipe and it's not.
• 27:40
  I wonder though if it isn't an issue until episode 2.
• 27:44
  I think in episode 1 it's about suspense, mystery building and
• 27:48
  the continuity isn't really explained half the time.
• 27:51
  You know, Littens just introduced the policemen are
• 27:53
  introduced. It's not into episode 2 where we
• 27:56
  all sort of stand around going. Will you remember the 10th
• 27:58
  planet? Oh, yeah.
• 27:59
  Do you remember the invasion? Yeah, Yeah, I think.
• 28:02
  Which is what we the best? Man stories.
• 28:04
  Oh, which all those two is it? What time planet?
• 28:06
  An invasion. Yeah, 10th Planet Invasion is
• 28:09
  the best five man stories, basically.
• 28:12
  Your father does not seem to agree with you there, is he?
• 28:15
  Yeah, he hates the tense planet for no reason, he said.
• 28:18
  He's a Hartnell fan, and the only one he dislikes is a tense
• 28:21
  planet. Yeah, there you go.
• 28:22
  And he absolutely, yeah. And he absolutely adores the
• 28:25
  sensor, right, for some reason. Oh, I mean I was going with him
• 28:29
  for a second there, but now his argument has fallen apart.
• 28:32
  What about those fabulous side man voices in the 10th planet?
• 28:38
  I'd love the side mode of beautiful, really gorgeously
• 28:41
  achieved. I love the costumes.
• 28:43
  You know, that kind of, you can still see the humanity in there,
• 28:47
  which I think adds to it, that kind of half human thing.
• 28:50
  But the story itself is a dog. Awesome.
• 28:53
  The Doctor turn The Doctor turns out sits around 4 episodes and
• 28:57
  regenerates. That's.
• 28:58
  Are we covering the 10th planet on this thing?
• 29:00
  Because I think we might have to add it to the list, you know?
• 29:03
  But aren't we doing the Romans for Hartnell?
• 29:06
  Well, maybe we'll do 2 heart annals.
• 29:07
  Hey you. Know like we have plenty of
• 29:09
  heart annals we can talk about how.
• 29:11
  I feel like, you know, the education of your dad needs to
• 29:13
  continue, you know? Say I need to do what his
• 29:17
  friends could not unsuccessfully make him believe.
• 29:20
  Oh. Well, Lisa, make him enjoy it
• 29:21
  for the two hours that we talk about it.
• 29:24
  That would be that would be a win.
• 29:26
  What it's like, what I can't wait to do is to educate a
• 29:29
  modern female rights for 2 1/2 hours when we go to PERT which.
• 29:33
  Oh, here we go. Colin's giving it some.
• 29:35
  Now this I need to ask Eddie about, right?
• 29:37
  I genuine, I want to ask a younger viewer.
• 29:41
  Do you mind when the Doctor uses his fists I mean.
• 29:47
  It's sex, doctor. Do we, do we expect any less of
• 29:50
  him? But is it a problem for you like
• 29:52
  that? He's not.
• 29:53
  He's not using his brain, he's using his brain.
• 29:57
  Well, yeah, because his because his brain is covered by a police
• 30:00
  hat. Here it is.
• 30:02
  It is. And and because we all know that
• 30:05
  the police have betrayed portrayed is done here, that
• 30:08
  means he has to be betrayed as not himself to.
• 30:11
  It's, it's Litton's mates, isn't it?
• 30:12
  Not they're not actually the police.
• 30:14
  But yet we know that. Yeah.
• 30:16
  But does he know that? I don't think he knows that.
• 30:18
  He's just beating up a copper as far as he knows.
• 30:21
  He never met them in resurrection, let's not forget
• 30:23
  that. I mean, genuinely speaking,
• 30:25
  coppers don't walk around with submachine guns with silencers,
• 30:28
  do they? But you don't see cops walk
• 30:30
  around with submachine guns every day.
• 30:32
  Not where I live, no. Whereabouts are you?
• 30:35
  Don't answer that question. All right.
• 30:38
  Yeah, we don't go to London too often.
• 30:40
  I'm sure it happens all the time.
• 30:41
  Oh, I do see airports and things like that.
• 30:44
  Yeah, and at das 10s as well. I don't think I really really
• 30:49
  think right on the back of the twin dilemma where obviously he
• 30:52
  was a bit erratic like Colin is all go here, you know, full of
• 30:57
  energy raring to go in this story and I'll find it.
• 31:00
  I don't know. It's a big toy thing.
• 31:03
  Which is why I think he's better than in his in trial.
• 31:07
  I think trial he loses a bit of energy because he's stuck in the
• 31:10
  dock for so long in it. Yeah, but then you get, then you
• 31:13
  get his face zoomed in on basically every cliffhanger.
• 31:16
  Well, it's a magnificent nose, Eddie.
• 31:18
  I mean, why? Why shouldn't we see it?
• 31:20
  And you and you get to see his show.
• 31:21
  Brow. And you get to see his shock
• 31:23
  reaction fall. By Dominic Green Scene.
• 31:28
  What makes you think at the end of every episode I'm not going
• 31:30
  to zoom in on your faces? No, it only goes out as an
• 31:33
  audio. If it went if it went out as a
• 31:36
  visual, I'm sure you do. You can just imagine it,
• 31:38
  viewers, it's, it's happening. I'll tell you what's refreshing,
• 31:42
  though about this first episode is the contemporary Earth
• 31:46
  setting, because there ain't a lot of it in the 80s.
• 31:50
  There isn't a lot in the 70s either, no.
• 31:52
  Did you forget John Pertwee? After Pertwee, after he gets
• 31:56
  back to Microsoft. Hinchcliffe doesn't do it.
• 31:58
  Very few Williams stories. Do it well.
• 32:00
  It's like, well, it's like with Hinchcliffe, you have like, I
• 32:04
  believe one or so contemporary stories per season.
• 32:10
  Like you've got what, one or two?
• 32:12
  Because you've got two in season 13.
• 32:15
  Yeah, 3. 10 That's five out of six he gets away from it.
• 32:19
  I think when you get to Williams, it's what Stones of
• 32:22
  blood, image of the Fender. And.
• 32:26
  Sharda. Sharda.
• 32:27
  Oh, City Death and Sharda. Yeah.
• 32:29
  So it was like once or twice a year.
• 32:31
  Yeah, but we want to forget city death because nobody likes that.
• 32:37
  I told you I am speechless. Right now I am.
• 32:41
  I mean, has he been talking to Gary Russell or what?
• 32:44
  Oh yes, I have actually. Yeah, I bet you have.
• 32:46
  Yeah, I bet he was pleased to finally find somebody who agrees
• 32:51
  with his outrageous opinion. Yeah, we don't.
• 32:53
  We both don't like City of Death.
• 32:54
  It's like if the comedy doesn't hit, the story doesn't hurt.
• 32:58
  Coming to Hamster soon, Gary Russell and Eddie do City of
• 33:02
  Death. I would.
• 33:05
  I would listen. Oh, sigh, heart would be
• 33:08
  spinning, listening, wouldn't he?
• 33:12
  I think we should call it shitty of death actually.
• 33:16
  Oh God, sorry. God, what is going on on the
• 33:19
  screen here? I'm sorry, I just looked away
• 33:21
  for two seconds. There's a side man coming up the
• 33:23
  tunnel. There's blood spurting
• 33:25
  everywhere. What is happening?
• 33:26
  And. Yeah, and yeah.
• 33:27
  Can you press the side man? Is what blind?
• 33:29
  Come on John, that is a great reveal.
• 33:32
  This this is the best bit that works best for me.
• 33:34
  That's tunnels. So the the stealth side man,
• 33:38
  obviously that for no reason whatsoever.
• 33:42
  Why do they have to do this reveal though?
• 33:43
  It's not like they put them in the title.
• 33:45
  Well I mean that is a problem because they always do a reveal
• 33:49
  even when the the monsters are in the.
• 33:52
  Titles and the one time they did it an invasion of the dinosaurs,
• 33:55
  they really didn't need to do it as well because it was the new
• 33:57
  monster or returning what? I mean, look at this show here,
• 34:00
  right? The cameras on the floor looking
• 34:03
  up. There's a corpse in front of the
• 34:05
  camera as they approach, with blood coming out of his.
• 34:08
  I mean, this is pretty adult, this stuff.
• 34:12
  Yeah, Eric say, would have Think he said he'd expect to be a
• 34:15
  midweek thing rather than some of a tea time.
• 34:18
  Was it? You still shouldn't be getting
• 34:20
  away with this early evening. It's done more like, you know,
• 34:24
  the Eastern films of the Swede, Rachels, all that.
• 34:27
  Oh well. Doesn't quite fit Doctor Who not
• 34:31
  or it shouldn't do. Doctor Who is generally supposed
• 34:35
  to be a family thing, and I can see why, you know, great power.
• 34:40
  We're looking at going really. You sure you should be doing
• 34:44
  that? I just imagined though, and I
• 34:46
  know I'm speaking for myself when I was at his age.
• 34:49
  I love this stuff. Oh God, I love the bodies and
• 34:52
  the guns and the gunk and the bloods and the violence and, and
• 34:57
  I would just want it more. Now, yes, now I'm like, OK,
• 35:00
  there are other ways to tell Doctor Who stories.
• 35:02
  It is quite extreme. What you want more violence?
• 35:05
  I did when I was a kiddo. I mean, vengeance of virals, you
• 35:07
  know, with all of those trials and acid baths and, you know,
• 35:10
  cannibals and nappies and things.
• 35:12
  Oh, bring it on. And it's like, yeah, and.
• 35:14
  It's like I was 10. Didn't bother me at all.
• 35:16
  With SIL, why did they just not knock him off his stand?
• 35:19
  Like did you really not think knock him off his stand and
• 35:22
  leave him lying upside down where he couldn't move?
• 35:25
  They may have got in troubled with the Disabled People
• 35:27
  Association there though, you know, and.
• 35:29
  Rightly. So only Peter Capaldi knocks.
• 35:33
  Disabled people will check. And then Russell T Davis had to
• 35:38
  wreck on that. Well, yeah, so it never happened
• 35:41
  again. OK, right.
• 35:46
  So we're going to have. Right.
• 35:47
  Hang on. I can't even remember that the
• 35:48
  cyber leader as played by David Banks.
• 35:52
  Then we've got the fat control. Sorry, the cyber controller as
• 35:56
  played by are. We watching Thomas the Tank
• 35:58
  Engine here. He's got a bit of a Tom, you
• 36:01
  know, And then there's the cyber Lieutenant who's the man that
• 36:05
  sort of talked a bit like that. He's got a bit of a funny voice.
• 36:09
  Are we supposed to sort of be able to tell the difference
• 36:12
  between all these Cybermen? Well, you can tell the
• 36:14
  difference with Michael Kerr, Gareth, let's face it.
• 36:17
  Well, it would be like me playing, so it's not even good
• 36:20
  trouble. Oh yeah, and you didn't even
• 36:22
  manage to bring that cyber helmet that you said you would.
• 36:25
  Excuse me, what? What cyber helmet?
• 36:28
  Yeah, I thought, I thought you mentioned something like some
• 36:30
  sort of cyber helmet last time. Well, I mean, you know, I was
• 36:34
  trying to keep it PG13, but honestly, I mean, I call it the
• 36:39
  ultimate Dick head, that cyber controller, It's very
• 36:42
  disturbing. Well, I mean we've done a very
• 36:45
  good job of keeping it PG13 with all the swearing so far.
• 36:49
  Well, I mean, I can't do it. Not very often, but I can.
• 36:54
  I can't. Not keep fun without smearing.
• 36:57
  Oh, OK, right. Well, fuck this then.
• 36:58
  Let's go. All right.
• 37:01
  Oh, and here we have a new plot. Now, what's occurring here?
• 37:05
  Then will you please tell us about this, Eddie?
• 37:07
  It's like they're trying to escape, tell us for some reason,
• 37:10
  because slave labour for some reason.
• 37:14
  It's like why? Why we got slave labour now all
• 37:17
  of a sudden? What do you think about these
• 37:20
  lovely sort of smoky scenes outside in the Labour camp?
• 37:26
  I was like, what? It's like what?
• 37:29
  They beat the shit out of the Cyberman.
• 37:31
  Like do you just see how he knocked one of their heads off?
• 37:34
  He decapitated that Cyberman. I mean, I mean, I love that
• 37:40
  that's like that's weird and comic and the fact that the
• 37:42
  Cyberman just keeps walking with our head it.
• 37:47
  Just shows how daft they are. I suppose they can keep going
• 37:49
  without a head. Yeah, chickens, do you know?
• 37:53
  Yeah. Go for a bit longer.
• 37:55
  Maybe 5 of men are represented as chickens here.
• 37:59
  I mean, they are a bunch of chickens.
• 38:01
  Do you remember in episode 2 when they realized that things
• 38:03
  going to be exploding? He goes, Oh my God, run, get
• 38:06
  away. And they're not even like, Oh
• 38:08
  yeah, we we're actually mechanical be we've got to stop
• 38:11
  this. And it's like.
• 38:13
  And then in closing time, they get defeated by the power of
• 38:16
  James Corden loving a child. Boy, I mean you may attack at
• 38:20
  the Cybermen seem even better by the minute.
• 38:22
  You know when you mention it's. Better to me for God's sake.
• 38:27
  See, I'm educating you, Father. And me as well.
• 38:31
  Thank you. OK, Can I?
• 38:33
  Knife to his throat as well. Yeah, I mean it is strong so and
• 38:37
  then a pistol right in his face at.
• 38:39
  Least we didn't need to torture this time because their flashy
• 38:42
  80s outfits were enough to light up the tunnel.
• 38:45
  But but did you? Did you genuinely like this sort
• 38:48
  of violent Doctor Who? Well, it depends like once in a
• 38:54
  while it's fine, but say it really just depends on like the
• 38:59
  tone of the season because like say if you're doing it in like
• 39:03
  specific one off like season 7, I think utilizes it decently.
• 39:07
  But I still want to know how on earth they got away with some of
• 39:10
  that. But yeah, like one off like
• 39:13
  that, it's fine when the show's trying to become more rattle,
• 39:15
  but then when you go back to just being all or like tinfoil
• 39:21
  plastic, rubber monsters next season, that sort of just like
• 39:26
  ignores the violence from the last season.
• 39:28
  It's like, Oh yeah, do you remember how trillions of people
• 39:31
  basically just got blood slaughtered last season?
• 39:34
  I mean, to be fair to to the writers, they were told to tone
• 39:38
  it down, weren't they? Between between 22 and 23?
• 39:40
  They were told to. But do you think it's well
• 39:42
  executed? You think the action actually
• 39:44
  looks good in this? Well, like, say, I don't, I
• 39:48
  still don't know why they just decided to include, Yeah, let's
• 39:52
  include two people trying to escape from Tellus like halfway
• 39:55
  through the episode. It does seem to come out of
• 39:58
  nowhere, doesn't it? And.
• 39:59
  And The thing is, they're like a lot of characters stay with
• 40:02
  souls. They don't even meet the Doctor.
• 40:04
  It goes nowhere at the end. I I know it's there to kind of
• 40:08
  say it's a futile planet. The Sidemen are really horrible.
• 40:11
  They're strong. They might, you know.
• 40:14
  It's almost futile to resist them, but you can integrate it
• 40:19
  better than this. And I think by adding in two
• 40:22
  more aggressive characters, because they just basically
• 40:26
  fight all the time, Stratton and Bates, there's no one likeable
• 40:30
  in this, is that there's no one you'd want to really hang about
• 40:32
  with. It's.
• 40:33
  Like maybe Perry, but. Well, she whinges quite a bit as
• 40:37
  well. Yeah, but it's like, so if I had
• 40:40
  to pick one, this. Could be better, I think, if
• 40:46
  they were a little fatalistic, you know, if if it was Takis and
• 40:50
  Milt say from Revelation, they they let you in on that world.
• 40:53
  It's fine. It's not like a commentary or or
• 40:57
  Arakaneta in in Varos. That would be beautiful if they
• 41:01
  but they're just as I say, they're argumentative.
• 41:04
  They're each other. It's that's the problem with
• 41:06
  that high action. So it it doesn't come down for a
• 41:09
  second. I think what they're going for,
• 41:11
  though, what they're going for with them is, is like, you know,
• 41:14
  the great escape on Telos, Yeah, is that we're going to get to
• 41:17
  the ship. But when we're especially
• 41:19
  rooting for them, Will Stratton and Bates make it?
• 41:21
  My God. But I think in order for that to
• 41:23
  work, you've got to like him. And he's given us no reason to
• 41:27
  like him at all. No.
• 41:29
  Aside the fact they decapitated a Cyberman.
• 41:33
  What do you imagine, Eddie, that a Cyberman would have to eat in
• 41:36
  order to get that returned? What?
• 41:40
  What that fat? I mean, look at the cyber in
• 41:43
  trouble. He's got a bit of a tum on him,
• 41:44
  look. Maybe it's just because he's,
• 41:49
  he's been, he's been left for like nearly two decades just to
• 41:53
  starve in the Cyber Tombs. So he just went out there and
• 41:58
  ate all the rocks he could find. Maybe his flesh is rotting away
• 42:03
  so that's it is just gathered around.
• 42:06
  Sean Yeah, I love it. You're asking for more grizzly
• 42:12
  violence. Yeah, make it even worse.
• 42:16
  I like to think, you know, he's got a couple of cryons in the
• 42:20
  larder and, you know, on his break he goes and that's a bit.
• 42:23
  Yeah, but I was like, stacks. He's got them lined up on the
• 42:26
  shelf. Yeah.
• 42:28
  I think. Other things, just a finger
• 42:30
  snack here. Like say and how did and how did
• 42:33
  the cyber controller just like magically change designs as
• 42:38
  well? It's like like literally just
• 42:40
  under 2 decades ago. He actually looked kind of
• 42:43
  creepy and had like an electronic voice nobody could
• 42:46
  understand if unless you could translate hieroglyph.
• 42:49
  But can I do AD? Can I do the voice?
• 42:51
  Yeah. Are you ready?
• 42:53
  These humanoids are not like girls.
• 42:56
  They still have fear. I mean these one from that to
• 43:01
  Stratton and Bates have escaped. He immediately turns into David
• 43:06
  Banks. I do love that tune, the sound,
• 43:10
  the bind we've got. It's it's where it's a big
• 43:11
  orange brain. But they just seem to come from
• 43:14
  a picture of him and they just haven't got any of the detail of
• 43:18
  it. Well done.
• 43:19
  Again, keep in mind two of the side men was missing at this
• 43:21
  point. Oh, I know it was.
• 43:23
  But they yeah, we had the Is it 68 Annual, has the side man on
• 43:27
  the cover and Ian Levine, who, as we all know, has an eidetic
• 43:31
  memory and perfect recall. And that was exactly what every
• 43:34
  episode of Doctor Who looked like.
• 43:36
  If you've seen those AIS, I don't think he.
• 43:39
  No. Oh, my God.
• 43:43
  Imperceptible from the real thing.
• 43:46
  All right, Ian. Oh no, these animations don't
• 43:49
  look very close at all. It's like, I think what I heard
• 43:54
  some people say is like, I think they hope that people did the
• 43:57
  animated episode in the upcoming season just to piss him off.
• 44:02
  I mean, I wouldn't put it past, rather to see that yes, I would
• 44:06
  have put it past him. I was going to ask you guys
• 44:09
  about Perry. Now, we very briefly touched
• 44:13
  upon the fact, you know, that she was brutalized by the Doctor
• 44:16
  in the last episode and and that her reaction since may be a bit
• 44:20
  unconvincing, but do we like Perry?
• 44:22
  Is Perry a companion that that we think is a is a good idea and
• 44:26
  it's working, Eddie. Well, I do like Perry's again
• 44:30
  Pan you didn't. I feel she's mistreated every
• 44:32
  episode. Like next episode she gets
• 44:34
  turned into a bird and it's like and then she and then she gets
• 44:39
  groped by trees in next episode then nearly gets then nearly
• 44:43
  gets eaten alive episode after that then.
• 44:47
  What would you imagine if you was Perry and you were suffering
• 44:50
  these indignities, that you would keep going on these
• 44:52
  adventures? No, me not either.
• 44:56
  It's like. And then in Time Lash, she
• 44:58
  changed for a tree for most of the episode.
• 45:01
  Oh boy. Yeah.
• 45:02
  Then, like Revelation, I can't. I can barely think what happens
• 45:06
  to her there, but she just has to walk out in the cold and
• 45:09
  watch the Doctor get crushed by stone.
• 45:11
  Eddie in Revelation she has Mr. Joe Bell coming on to her every
• 45:15
  5 minutes. I mean, it's very disturbing.
• 45:18
  To be fair, I don't remember that story that well.
• 45:21
  Oh, OK. Wow, like.
• 45:22
  She has the Borat coming onto her, for God's sake.
• 45:25
  Yeah, and. Then she marries Brian.
• 45:27
  Blessed for God's sake. Whilst having a bald head
• 45:30
  getting destroyed by a missile. Oh boy.
• 45:33
  Yeah. I mean, we haven't.
• 45:34
  The only story we haven't touched on here is Mysterious
• 45:36
  Planet. What happens to her in that?
• 45:41
  She gets sidelined. She doesn't do much.
• 45:44
  Oh, she gets promised to a load of men by Queen Katrika.
• 45:48
  I shall provide excellent husbands for.
• 45:50
  You she also gets a hairstyle upgrade or downgrade as I think
• 45:54
  for hit. I mean she goes full on 80s in
• 45:56
  trial of a time not as you a long.
• 45:58
  I hate that hair, honestly. Oh.
• 45:59
  Do you? Yeah, I like that minded so
• 46:02
  much. It's like I feel like I can
• 46:06
  judge, like how I how I like the man you based on their hair
• 46:10
  sometimes as well. Kids like what is it with
• 46:12
  companions and changing their hair in the last two stories,
• 46:15
  because it's like say, literally as well in last two stories of
• 46:18
  season 7. Let's sure go from or like posh
• 46:22
  it like that, like big hair, like all that.
• 46:25
  I was like, why did you need to change your hair like that?
• 46:28
  I don't like it. They always try to sort of
• 46:30
  feminize them a bit, aren't they?
• 46:31
  By the end it's. It's like.
• 46:33
  To be fair, they're not being sexist.
• 46:35
  They do it with Colin as well in trial.
• 46:38
  They do. Honestly can I just keep can I
• 46:41
  just say here I could probably review season 7 just off the
• 46:44
  shorts hairstyles through each episode.
• 46:47
  Well, and her fabulous hat in Ambassadors of Death.
• 46:49
  Yes, that somehow doesn't fall off while she flips.
• 46:53
  That's because it's, you know, space.
• 46:54
  Hat sticks to your edge. What did it?
• 46:56
  Did it just cling to her whilst it was whilst it should have
• 46:59
  fallen into the river and gone into cliffhanger?
• 47:03
  I want to once again praise Matthew Robertson's direction in
• 47:06
  this because these action sequences are think look
• 47:09
  fabulous. That sequence there where they
• 47:12
  decapitated another cyber man a minute ago, you had a really
• 47:16
  clever, very sophisticated special effects shot with cyber
• 47:19
  control in the background and the actors in the foreground.
• 47:23
  I think he's doing some great work.
• 47:25
  He can direct I think. I think it's the only reason ME
• 47:29
  resurrection and attack even come close to working because so
• 47:33
  can it. We, you know, we all do rightly
• 47:35
  praise Graham Harper for the way he puts pace throughout his army
• 47:38
  and the way he does a slower stuff like Revelation as well.
• 47:42
  Math. You don't stop to notice the all
• 47:47
  the holes in this script at all. It's just so fast.
• 47:51
  It's relentless. And can I just ask, like, why
• 47:55
  did they feel the need to paint those guys grey?
• 47:57
  It's like, had they just been working there so long that they
• 48:00
  turned black and white? I mean, I, I love being grey,
• 48:06
  you know, It's not a bad look. You like 60s TV and you wouldn't
• 48:10
  even look different. Maybe that's it.
• 48:13
  A step straight from Tomb of the Sidemen.
• 48:15
  Yeah, if you can judge people on their hair.
• 48:18
  Well, how's my hair? Yeah, it's decent today, I'd
• 48:21
  say. Thank you very much.
• 48:23
  Thank you. What about your dad?
• 48:24
  Don't. Ask me, I'm overdue for a
• 48:29
  haircut anyway. I mean, I'm, I'm due to get a
• 48:32
  haircut in a couple weeks anyway, but say it's like, yeah,
• 48:36
  he's always overdue for a haircut.
• 48:38
  Do you think it's good that we finally get a proper look at
• 48:43
  humans being turned into Cybermen?
• 48:45
  Yes, because it's like, say what?
• 48:47
  You want me to believe that humans are actually getting
• 48:49
  converted into Cybermen? How am I supposed to believe
• 48:51
  that if you don't actually show me humans getting converted at
• 48:54
  all? Is it just here?
• 48:55
  I don't think we see it at any other time, do we?
• 48:58
  The rise of Cyberman OH. I mean in the classic series.
• 49:01
  No rise of Cyberman. We do get it though.
• 49:03
  No, you can see the hands in the 10th plan obviously.
• 49:06
  So you see that? Then it's like I think the
• 49:09
  closest they get otherwise is probably like the Moon Basin
• 49:12
  Tomb and Cyberman when they hypnotize with the with the evil
• 49:16
  electric drawings on to the film of death.
• 49:19
  I love those. Oh, you see two Toberman's arm,
• 49:23
  don't you? He's got like a Cyberman arm.
• 49:26
  Yes, I suppose this is the most explicit we've ever seen.
• 49:29
  Yeah, well, I mean in the classic season, because like,
• 49:32
  say, Age of Seal and Rise of Simon is just like brutal with
• 49:35
  that. It's like it actually shows all
• 49:36
  the chip, all the sores and whatnot and.
• 49:39
  They're being marched in in a line, aren't they?
• 49:42
  One after another with the screams.
• 49:44
  It's like I don't get how he dislikes that as well.
• 49:47
  Like my father dislikes it for some reason I don't know how.
• 49:50
  What Rise to the side, men? Yeah, he's got some baffling
• 49:53
  opinions that we have. Yeah, I just think he doesn't
• 49:57
  like Graham Papazai. Actually, he doesn't like Andrew
• 49:59
  Sutton. He.
• 50:00
  I don't mind Andrews. Well, why do you get that every
• 50:04
  time I mentioned? That I don't think it's a great
• 50:06
  story of all time. Yeah, I don't either, but I
• 50:09
  still like it. Yet you seem to always have an
• 50:11
  active opinion on it. Then I'm not sure of your
• 50:14
  opinion on Revelation, but I think you don't like it much.
• 50:16
  I'd like Revelation. I saw that.
• 50:19
  I've forgotten how funny it was. When you're watching with other
• 50:22
  people and the Doctor can, it's great.
• 50:25
  Yeah. And then right aside, men, you
• 50:28
  seem to not like that for some reason.
• 50:29
  It's like, how do you not like that?
• 50:32
  It's great. It has moments, it has nice
• 50:35
  imagery, but it's go. The mighty junk of the lion.
• 50:40
  I love it, I think. It's got Ricky.
• 50:42
  From beyond. Misses Moore.
• 50:48
  Yeah, how could you not like them?
• 50:50
  Oh, yeah, And then we get to see all the fleshy stuff.
• 50:52
  And then as well when he opens the compartment before Miss
• 50:55
  Moore gets electrocuted. Will you have?
• 50:59
  I know I keep mentioning the direction, all of these shots
• 51:03
  from below of the sidemen coming out of the shadows into the
• 51:06
  light, in the silhouette. They just look amazingly good in
• 51:10
  this I think. They're probably shot, aren't
• 51:12
  they? Yeah, yeah.
• 51:14
  It's like I could see myself using this.
• 51:16
  It's like a phone background with them, like in the shadows,
• 51:19
  it's like. That's the highest compliment,
• 51:21
  you know. Yeah, you think it's like, but
• 51:24
  right now I've got my phone cover as this Behead from Space
• 51:27
  special edition cover. Guys, I can't believe it.
• 51:30
  We're coming. Up to the end of.
• 51:31
  Episode 1 already now, regardless of what you think,
• 51:35
  John, it's a shot by this 45 minutes.
• 51:38
  Totally. As I said, it's fast.
• 51:40
  You don't. You get to notice platters until
• 51:43
  you come out. I can think about.
• 51:45
  It the Cyberman is getting revenge on the Doctor for Last
• 51:47
  Story. Is it strangling him in the
• 51:50
  cyber? Shot through the head.
• 51:52
  That is really very graphic, isn't it?
• 51:55
  Shooting someone in the face. Well it's a Cyberman so it gets
• 51:59
  fine. I can't but.
• 52:00
  It but it but it's with a real gun if it's.
• 52:03
  With a laser. I can see it getting them
• 52:06
  getting away with it, but at this point, go is anyone
• 52:10
  actually at the helm yet? Is anyone actually kind of
• 52:12
  looking at what should we put out of BBC One on a yeah, on a
• 52:17
  Saturday night? You go from whatever Roman.
• 52:20
  Rap to this. I mean, that's a one off though,
• 52:22
  right? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
• 52:24
  There is there is a load assignment in the TARDIS.
• 52:27
  There's violence occurring. There's guns all over the floor.
• 52:30
  At the end of episode 1. Oh, wonderful.
• 52:32
  It's it's The thing is it's and then when Simon goes to smack,
• 52:36
  it's imitable violence. At that point you you can it
• 52:38
  could be imitative and you go. And you just see Perry so scared
• 52:43
  her life. They're just about to get
• 52:46
  smacked by a Cyberman and she's so scared.
• 52:48
  Can I ask you please, what is the the greater exclamation?
• 52:53
  Is it Perry going No, no, no. Or is it the woman from Doctor
• 52:57
  in Distress going no, no, no, no, no, no?
• 53:01
  Which is the worst? I got Doctor in Distress
• 53:06
  released on my birthday so I can't be entirely critical of
• 53:11
  it. What, the release date of Doctor
• 53:13
  in Distress is your actual birthday?
• 53:15
  Yeah. I hope you play it every year
• 53:17
  then. I don't brings it back.
• 53:20
  He won't take less. Well, that that cliffhanger
• 53:26
  there, I just before we go into Part 2, I'll end episode one in
• 53:30
  a second. But I just want to say that I do
• 53:35
  agree with you, John, that it does feel like there's no real
• 53:39
  sort of content control over attacking the sideman because
• 53:42
  that's strong. A sideman being shot in the
• 53:45
  face, then a man having his brain.
• 53:47
  To play. Pressed on quickly pressed down.
• 53:52
  OK, I've done that. Like guns been fired.
• 53:56
  Perry literally thinks she's about to have her brains blown
• 53:59
  out inside the TARDIS. Like, that is about as graphic
• 54:04
  and as viscerally violent within the TARDIS as you're ever going
• 54:08
  to see in Doctor Who. Ever.
• 54:10
  Now is this shocking good or is this shocking bad Eddie.
• 54:18
  I kind of tuned out of what you just said there.
• 54:20
  Oh, how? Rude.
• 54:22
  Understanding. Is is the violence in the TARDIS
• 54:25
  at the end of problem? Well, issues.
• 54:29
  Well, everyone seems to take the Cybermen here.
• 54:31
  It's like unless, unless the Cyberman in that strangles the
• 54:38
  Doctor was just like the ghost of Hugo Land coming back to
• 54:41
  strangle the Doctor for what she did to Perry last or.
• 54:45
  But like, the TARDIS is supposed to be a place of safety, isn't
• 54:47
  it? Well, it's like say, let's be
• 54:49
  real, it hasn't been a place to safety ever.
• 54:51
  Like edge disruption. You see them going in saying
• 54:54
  like that's true. When does it actually have been
• 54:57
  a place to safety? And then it's like they seem to
• 54:59
  keep blowing it up all the time in the modern series.
• 55:01
  So it's like how I meant to believe is a place to safety,
• 55:04
  just blow up 24/7. Well.
• 55:06
  Sue Tech. He got the doctor's wife.
• 55:08
  It's like and then, and then. Apparently Sue Tech doesn't wake
• 55:11
  up from The Big Bang, but he wakes up from a cup of coffee.
• 55:14
  Would that cliffhanger entice you to go and watch episode 2?
• 55:18
  Would you want to see what happened?
• 55:21
  Probably. I won't be.
• 55:24
  You're going to have to. It's like, it's like I think
• 55:29
  they could have done back with the cliffhangers like say viral
• 55:31
  episode ones. Cliffhanger has done perfectly
• 55:33
  well. I'd love to see what happens
• 55:34
  next episode then. But say here, it's just like, Oh
• 55:39
  no, Perry is screaming, Cybermen are surrounding her.
• 55:43
  She could just climb over the TARDIS console and run out of
• 55:46
  there. How is she ever going to escape?
• 55:49
  It feels like one of those oh we need a moment of peril to be
• 55:52
  contrived to get the mid episode cliffhanger.
• 55:56
  There you go, that'll do. I just, I do.
• 55:59
  I imagine that some people would sit there and think, wow, this
• 56:02
  is nasty, what's going to happen?
• 56:04
  And other people will think, Oh my God, what the hell has
• 56:07
  happened to Doctor Who like. Well, 2 million people thought
• 56:11
  that. They did.
• 56:12
  Well, John, you answer that question as well about the
• 56:15
  Thalas and the Thalas at the end, and then we'll skip on into
• 56:17
  Episode 2. Oh yeah, that's like, I've also
• 56:21
  never asked, but what did you actually think if when it went
• 56:24
  out? Me yeah.
• 56:27
  So the only the most thing I can remember watching it is that we
• 56:30
  had to stuff off at my dad's friends and and make sure I
• 56:34
  could watch it there so he was he was stuck me up now might be
• 56:36
  that's why my dad called in and went yeah, Doctor Who's on here
• 56:39
  you go I'll get 45 minutes peace quiet chat to my mate.
• 56:44
  I remember it being fine. I love, you know, I'll just soak
• 56:50
  up any kind of new Doctor Who. At the time, I don't think I
• 56:53
  noticed it being that kind of violent because you had
• 56:57
  Andrazani, you know, the season before you had Resurrection with
• 57:00
  Dalek. So it didn't necessarily feel
• 57:04
  horribly out of place. I'd I'd seen it, it was, it was
• 57:09
  fine. But it's again, it's when I go
• 57:11
  back to it, I just couldn't kind of, I didn't like the story at
• 57:18
  all, at all. And I just felt, yeah, that
• 57:22
  stuff, this, the violence was just, it was there to just kind
• 57:26
  of hold up that kind of sagging story.
• 57:30
  It's. Like you don't have to have a
• 57:34
  story that's all like properly connected and all the characters
• 57:37
  go through an emotional like Doctor Who's basically just
• 57:40
  about, oh, that's just from whatever the fuck we want and
• 57:42
  make it like the biggest crazy circus type show ever.
• 57:47
  It's like, say it's like, that's what that's what's good about
• 57:51
  it. It's like you can just like
• 57:52
  Chuck in anything and say fuck it, Let's throw together a plot
• 57:55
  like that with. It's just.
• 57:57
  Like I'd like, I'd like a satisfying story with it.
• 58:01
  Sometimes, yeah, some, you know, sometimes my mom back being
• 58:03
  moved. Just Chuck something on.
• 58:05
  That makes absolutely no. Sense Yeah, for 40. 5 minutes.
• 58:09
  I mean at least I could understand this after one watch
• 58:12
  unlike warriors gate. The first story of the video
• 58:17
  age, they say. I mean, I just think like as a
• 58:20
  as a season opener, this episode we just watched it's bangs and
• 58:24
  flashes and whistles and violence and Cybermen, you know,
• 58:28
  and pacey action. And I think that maybe that's
• 58:32
  not a bad idea to get people into the season.
• 58:36
  It's it's very towards the sayward end of the scale.
• 58:39
  I always think I know it's because you've got Eric Tayton,
• 58:42
  John Lincoln Turner, John Lincoln Turner has more of a
• 58:44
  kind of a showbiz attitude. Bring in the guest stars.
• 58:47
  You know, he's the casting here. Look at you've got you Brian
• 58:51
  Glover, the audience, Maurice Colebourne, the audience knows
• 58:54
  them. So you've got two you, you've
• 58:57
  got I don't you go through that whole era.
• 58:59
  I don't know who they are. Yes, but you would have at the
• 59:02
  time, because they're quite kind of familiar faces.
• 59:05
  You know, we, you know, you'd seen, you might have seen Kez in
• 59:08
  school. And he is the teacher.
• 59:09
  He Brian Clever, He's a teacher. He cares and he's a right
• 59:12
  bastard in that and he's great. But he kind of maybe needs a
• 59:17
  little bit more of that that kind of softening sensibility,
• 59:21
  that kind of Saturday night sensibility that Russell T
• 59:24
  Davies has and lets him get away with a hell of a lot of violence
• 59:28
  as well. Are you, are you saying there's
• 59:31
  a there's other 20th century school shows that I haven't
• 59:34
  watched? Oh, it's a film.
• 59:37
  It's it's a, it's a 1970 film, I think.
• 59:41
  But yes, there are. In a school.
• 59:44
  Sat in a school up north, Yes. Well, the the only 20th century
• 59:47
  thing I know at primarily in a school is Grange Hill.
• 59:54
  Well, let me. Can we do the whole thing?
• 1:00:02
  Yeah, hang on, can I get a sausage?
• 1:00:10
  Let me ask you both then, and we'll go and watch episode 2.
• 1:00:14
  John, because you don't like it. What was your least favorite
• 1:00:16
  part of Part 1? Eddie, since you do like it,
• 1:00:20
  what is your favorite part of Part 1?
• 1:00:22
  Go. Who's starting?
• 1:00:25
  John, you go first. I will go with Stratton and
• 1:00:28
  Bates because they kill the plot line by just not giving you
• 1:00:32
  anything to get into. They're on another planet.
• 1:00:36
  Yeah, they're prisoners, but they just, again, they bicker
• 1:00:40
  each other. So it'd probably be the way.
• 1:00:42
  All the character interactions are all conflict and no kind of
• 1:00:47
  jokes, no humour, no kind of humanity to but.
• 1:00:52
  You're basically basically you think, Oh no, they've they've
• 1:00:57
  converged all the other parts together, they've linked them.
• 1:01:00
  So we need to Chuck in another 2 unrelated plots just just to fit
• 1:01:04
  for that. You were supposed to be saying
• 1:01:06
  something nice, yeah. I mean, to be fair, I still
• 1:01:09
  complimented midnight even though I don't like.
• 1:01:13
  You did well. What's your favorite part of
• 1:01:14
  Part 1 then, Eddie? I know how to say what my
• 1:01:19
  favorite part because I liked it.
• 1:01:20
  I just love so much of it. Just.
• 1:01:24
  Like it's like, it's like, I love the decapitated Cyberman.
• 1:01:29
  That was like. That was going to be mine.
• 1:01:33
  They just like, fuck yeah, let's decapitate, shoot through the
• 1:01:36
  head, every single Cyberman. And it's like, when do you see
• 1:01:40
  this in any other story? It's like every other story.
• 1:01:42
  They're just like so, so like oppressed by side men and
• 1:01:46
  cornered. But it's like this story,
• 1:01:48
  they're like, fuck no, we're not tolerating that.
• 1:01:50
  Let's just bash the shit out of them.
• 1:01:52
  Just that that darkly comic idea of the side man, like a chicken
• 1:01:56
  running around without his head. I mean, it's great.
• 1:01:59
  I mean, The thing is, they are not that kind of big Invincible
• 1:02:04
  villain. They should be, you know, Silver
• 1:02:06
  Nemesis. Yeah, it sort of seems like
• 1:02:07
  frothy. They, you know, they spray aside
• 1:02:09
  man with machine gunfire there. And it's just like, yeah, come
• 1:02:12
  on, bring it on. But this is the same in Revenge
• 1:02:14
  of the Side Man. It's the same in Earth Shock.
• 1:02:17
  I don't think the side men have been a particularly.
• 1:02:21
  It's not well treated, no. If I.
• 1:02:23
  Well, side men, Earth shock, they do try and get that back
• 1:02:26
  because that's what story depends.
• 1:02:28
  Like fit. It's like, say he tried to give
• 1:02:30
  the Simon a big reveal here. Why didn't you just try and
• 1:02:33
  reuse your earth shock technique where it's just like he closed
• 1:02:36
  off all the filming locations, didn't title the story with
• 1:02:39
  anything sort of revealing. So it's like at the end of that
• 1:02:41
  third one, you just had that massive shock fact.
• 1:02:44
  It's publicity that's such what you want to.
• 1:02:47
  It works with a big continuity story.
• 1:02:49
  It did 9. Million. 9 million people.
• 1:02:52
  Well, 2 million. Dropped out.
• 1:02:54
  Well, yeah, that's people like your dad, though.
• 1:02:56
  You know they're mad. I I didn't drop out.
• 1:02:59
  I was hardcore. But yeah, but it's like, of
• 1:03:02
  course you're hardcore. I, I, for my part, I'm going to
• 1:03:06
  say just the direction in general by talking about this
• 1:03:08
  with you guys. So I can't actually hear the
• 1:03:10
  thing. And so just looking at the
• 1:03:12
  visuals, I think some of this holds up really well even today.
• 1:03:17
  I think he keeps it moving at a lick of a pace, but just the
• 1:03:22
  visuals themselves are really memorable.
• 1:03:24
  The way things are shot it. I I know it's surface gloss, but
• 1:03:28
  I think sometimes surface gloss can go quite far if if it's this
• 1:03:31
  good. It's television, it's
• 1:03:33
  collaborative media, and I I think direction does cover a
• 1:03:36
  multitude of sins there. Well, let's let's suffer no
• 1:03:42
  longer with not watching attack of the side man, I'm just I'm.
• 1:03:45
  Suffering not going to hear the 80s intro I I can't bear not
• 1:03:48
  hearing it. We'll skip into episodes too.
• 1:03:51
  Then take it. It's a good thing we're not
• 1:03:53
  doing trial with time, because I really would not bear without
• 1:03:56
  it. And I probably just turn the
• 1:03:57
  sound all the way up during the scene.
• 1:03:58
  It's like. Oh, you sort of get at the start
• 1:04:00
  of trial of the Time Lord is. Yeah, it's the best Doctor Who's
• 1:04:05
  seen of all, by the way. What trial?
• 1:04:09
  Yeah. Oh my God, now you're talking
• 1:04:12
  great sense again. You know it was touch and go
• 1:04:15
  there in the middle with some of your controversial opinions
• 1:04:17
  about City of Death. Yeah, I'm still up for that if
• 1:04:21
  you want, if you want me on for a city of death.
• 1:04:23
  And Gary, I'm going to get in touch with him and say let's do.
• 1:04:27
  I can message him as well, say hey, Joe said that we could do a
• 1:04:30
  city of death thing. Would you like to go?
• 1:04:33
  John, I'll need you there as well, though, in order to praise
• 1:04:36
  it. Oh God, yeah, that's fine.
• 1:04:39
  I'll just have Eddie. And Gary, I'm not facing your
• 1:04:44
  son and Gary Russell alone. I'm the bodyguard, That's fine.
• 1:04:49
  I'm just like. Well, it's like I think Gary
• 1:04:52
  said it was one of the only two stories you'd need to pay him to
• 1:04:54
  watch as well. So well can you please assure
• 1:04:58
  him there will be no payment? Hopefully you've got some money
• 1:05:01
  back. You're.
• 1:05:02
  Paying with love.