Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Lilli Mixich Reflects on Nearly Five Decades of Overland Travel

Transcript

Lilli Mixich Reflects on Nearly Five Decades of Overland Travel · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Ashley Jordano, and today my guest is Lily Mixic and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: she's been traveling one thousand, six hundred solo overland in
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Africa in her nineteen eighty eight Toyota land Cruiser named Toyot.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Lily for joining me on the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: podcast today.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy to be here and yeah that's it.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: So happy to answer your questions at whatever you want
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: to know of my.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Two wonderful wonderful So, yeah, you just posted today You've
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: done over sixteen hundred days solo in Africa, and I'm
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: curious where are you now?
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Is it more? No? No, no, it's just over four
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: and a half. Yes, I started in September twenty so
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I'm now in South Africa. I'm staying with a friend
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: on her old farm. I've just been in one of
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: the very famous game reserves here in South Africa in
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Kruga Park. But now I just have to do some
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: shopping and organizing some things before I cross over to
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: another country. So for now I'm still in South Africa.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Nice, and I feel like at this point, I think
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of people may think of an overland sort
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of expedition or trip as a trip or vacation. But
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: it's a lifestyle when you've been going for this long.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a kind of for me, it's life.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: It's a kind of a nomadic life. I must say.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: This is also not a typical overlanding, because a typical
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: overland when he would like to overland Africa, he would
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: travel much faster than me. So most of the people
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: that stay like one night or two nights or at
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: a very specific place and maybe a few days longer.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: But I'm not traveling like this anymore. I normally like
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: it when I can stay longer at a place and
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: enjoy the place, and it's more a life. It's a
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: nomadic life, but being on nice places at the right
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: time of the year and enjoying the places and just
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: it's life. Just live it. Car, I've got I've got
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: everything what I need in my car, even here with
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: my friend on the farm. I sleep in my car
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: outside underneath the car part which a car port, which
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: is good at the moment because it rains a lot.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: So I've got a roof over my roof, which is
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: at the moment again, but it's leaking, cleaking into my bed.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So it's good that I'm standing underneath the roof until
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I get my roof properly repaired. And you know, all
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: is good. So, as I said, it's a kind of
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: a life for sure.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you about your lan cruiser named Toyo.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It's very snazzy. I love that it's orange. I'm wondering
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: where when did you get it and where and how
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: has it come into your life?
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. Let's put it like this. I've been
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: traveling a lot in Africa. I've been traveling with my
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: first partner a lot in Africa, with my second partner
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: a lot in Africa. And when I started with my
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: started traveling seriously again. With my second partner, we had
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a little company. We gave it up and then we
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: had time and money to go traveling. And when we
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: started we had a truck expedition truck in Germany. We
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: actually wanted to go east towards India. But then a
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: thing came up with a friend of ours. He had
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: also a truck, same as us, and he got a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: job in Africa, in Tanzania, and he was looking for
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: somebody who could drive his truck down to Tanzania because
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: shipping for a truck a big lorry is too expensive,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: and he wanted to have slowly down in Tanzania because
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: he has at this time still has three kids, three
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: small kids, and then going camping or making holidays with
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: three kids, if you go camping is much cheaper than
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: if you have to to book a house or something,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: especially then in Africa. So okay, he asked us if
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: we can bring that lorri down to Africa. At that moment,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: we didn't have time, but we said, okay, if you
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: can wait a little bit longer, we will do it.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: So he waited a little bit, about half a year,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: and then we we brought he actually started and brought
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: through this lorry down to Tanzandia and we did a
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: very specific route which is not open anymore. So we
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: started in Germany, we drove down to Italy and we
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: shipped the lorry to Tunisia. So then we made from
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Tunisia Algeria and then Niger, and then from Niga we
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: crossed into Chat because I always wanted to go around
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Lake Chat and it was a big dream, so we
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: drove around like Chat and then we arrived in Chat.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: We drove around La Chat and then from Chat we
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: drove into Sudan, which is not possible because that also
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: at this stage when we were from when we were
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: traveling from Chad into Sudan, that war at Dafua broke
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: out and the closed the borders, so it was not
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: very easy to get It was very easy to get in,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: but we didn't know that if we could get in
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: or not. But there was not a really real border post,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: so it was then in the end it was turned
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: out easy to get over the border. And then from
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Sudan we came into Ethiopia from Eupia to Kenya. From
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Kenya Tanzandia. So we dropped the Lori with our friend
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: and we had our backpacks with us, and we actually
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: wanted to go backpacking and fly to Madagascar and do
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: backpacking in Madagascar. Madagascar also a very big dream of mine.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: But then when we arrived and oh god, we are
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: old and this is too hot and we are too lazy,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: and I had backpacking anyway, then the cars were cheap,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: and we found a lot of experts who actually did
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: sell their cars, and so that's how and Toyo came
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: into our life first. So we bought the Toyota as
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: a land cruiser sixty sixty has got an old six
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: cylinder diesel engine, very strong one actually. Yeah, And we
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: bought this old Toyota land Cruiser and we thought, okay,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: we are here in Tanzandia. Now we we might travel
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: around for another half a year. Yeah, so let's buy
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: an old and cheap old car and just travel around
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: for another half a year. And from this traveling around
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: for another half a year, it turned out that we
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: traveled around for about how long have you been on
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the road? Is this car five or six years? All together?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And because we also then we kept in the land Cruiser.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: And when we had to go back, and kept the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: land Cruiser because we still wanted to see more, especially
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: my ex husband wanted to see more because I've traveled
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: in Africa a lot before, but he wanted to see more,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: so we kept the land Cruiser. He bought another land
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Cruiser in Australia. So now we had three cars on
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: three continents. We had a dream we had, No, that's
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: not a dream, I'm telling you, because you can only
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: drive one car right your but can only sit on
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: one driver's seat, that's it. Yeah, So we had but
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: we had now three cars. We had so at the
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: end we ended up with three cars because we worked
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: with the Australian company together as long as we had
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the company, and then we had to travel. We had
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: to fly to He had to fly to Australia as well.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So we bought another length cruiser in Australia. Now we
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: were sitting there, had expedition truck in Europe, a land
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: cruiser in Africa, and another land cruiser in Australia. Yeah.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So and when and then we divided our time, our
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: traveling time. As I said, you can only drive one car,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: we divided our traveling time between Australia, Africa and Europe.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So and then when we actually separated after ten years
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: traveling together, the decision was for me. It was quite easy.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go on with this kind of life.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So he kept the German truck, we sold the Australian
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: one and I kept the African one and we bought
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: it two thousand and three, and from that by just
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: a cheap old car for half a year. It's now more.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: What is it now? It's twenty three years now and
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I'm still sitting in that car.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. How have you outfitted it to
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: suit your lifestyle? What? How how have you outfitted it
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: or made changes to it to suit your life?
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was It was a plane land cruiser and
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: it's actually very simple. We had some plastic boxes which
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: we still brought from Germany where we had our stuff
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: inside in the lorry which we brought down to Tanzania.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So we put that plastic boxes inside. We put a plank,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: a wooden plank on top which you can lift up
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: and down as a bat. We put some jerry cans
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and that was the first outfit. So it was just
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: like a few plastic boxes on the bottom, a few
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: jerry cans for spare fuel and water, and our bed
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: on top. And later on he actually then extended the roof,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: so he made the roof higher. So now I've got
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: like a higher roof. I can sit upright, which is
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: very convenient. I can have all my clothes, I don't
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: have to have a bag standing on the bed I have.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I have an extra compartment for all the closes. So
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: it's it's a bit more comfortable now that it has
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: got a higher roof. But otherwise and I've got like
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: like what you I don't know if it's a right
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: word in English. Utenzilos so little close things with pockets
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: where you can stuff all kind of put all kinds
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: of stuff inside. And for me it's very convenient. It's
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: the car is very old, I've got repairs all the time,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: but it's still so simple and so convenient, and I
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: can sleep inside, which I like prefer I don't want
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: to travel with a rooftop ten. I like it to
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: sleep inside because you still have then your your kind
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: of your you are like a little shell around you,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: like a little dirtle shell around you, not like you
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: don't have to build up a tent. I don't have
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: to open a rooftop tent. I still like open my doors.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And if I'm not having too much stuff loaded, like
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the chairs and all kinds of boxes as of what
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I normally also have, then I can just go inside
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and sleep. But if I won't, and that is very convenient.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Super convenient. I like that a lot. So you have
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: experience traveling in a variety of different overland vehicles which
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: you touched on a little bit. So I have a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: list here. Let me know if there are any extra ones.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy nine Land Rubber one oh nine, the Majiis Dudes,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: expedition vehicle, Toyota h H forty seven ex ambulance that
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: was in Australia's right BW b us.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Mobile home, and of course the Toyo which you were
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: just talking about. What have you what have you learned
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: from your experience traveling in a variety of different overland vehicles.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I must say I would let's put it like this,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: the overland vehicle. It depends where you want to travel.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I would say for myself, I would not want to
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: travel in a big truck in Australia or in Africa,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: because all the tracks interesting tracks in Africa and Australia
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: are made for toyotas, were made by or for toyotas
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: or for four by fource. And you don't need a
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: truck because you live most of the time you live outside.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I would prefer traveling in a big truck if I
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: would travel South America, or let's put it like Russia
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: or Mongolia. The reason is simple. It would be because
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of the weather. Yeah, if you can experience bad weather,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of wind, called rain, things like this, then
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: a track is much more convenient because you really have
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a kind of a house. Our expedition truck was like
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a house. We had a floor heating, we had three
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: different heating systems in it. It's like a house. A
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: mobile house. Yeah, what you actually, for example in Africa,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: you would not really need it. It's nice to have
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: a shower in the car and a toilet in the car.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: It's nice, but you actually you also can go easy without. Yeah, now,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: since I'm older, I would laugh. My dream mobile would
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: actually be a sturdy four by four with a little
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: cabin on the top because it is a cabin in
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: the back. Because it is a bit it gets a
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: bit tiresome crawling in and crawling out. Not really like
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: for example I was when I was now here in
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: in Kruger, especially this year December January February, there was
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: loads of rain. I don't know if you if you
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: heard it or seen it maybe in the news of
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: people from Europe maybe. So they had a huge, huge
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: flat flat here in Kruger. So everything was flooded everything,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So it was so much rain. Bridges got swept by,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: roads got damaged very seriously. I was also caught in
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: a little city outside on the border for three days
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: because both roads which did lead out of the city
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: were gone. So in a case like this, it would
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: be a little bit more convenient if you would have
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a little bit more room around. That's also I learned,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: for example, when I traveled in Europe. When I traveled
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: with my ex husband, we had the truck, and the
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: truck is very convenient for traveling in Europe, not for
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the really small roads in the old cities. So yeah,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: but anyway, we had a motorcycle in the back, so
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: we couldn't drive into the cities with a motorcycle. But
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: when I traveled started with my little v W bus,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I felt, you know, I couldn't stand up properly. You
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: cannot make one step. Yeah, And when I had my
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: mobile home, at least from the bed to the toilet,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I could make three steps, and that was very convenient.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So now if I could say and choose a dream
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: car or a dream vehicle, I would say a thirty
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: four by four for me, a thirty four by four
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: with a little cabin on the back, just because I'm
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: older and more lazy and I live a lot in
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: my car.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, I love that point that you made. There's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: so many little gems in there. Like, it depends on
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: where you're going, like you said, because the weather is
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: going to be completely different. It depends on what's right
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: for you in this time of your life. And I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: want to go back a little bit with you because
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: it all kind of started correct me if I'm wrong
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight when you went to Tangier and
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: so your overland trip looked a lot different when you
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: first started that as well. So yeah, bring us into
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: that time of your life.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually when I started, this was my first husband.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: When started, we just like did a camping. We had
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: a little beetle that was our first coin. With this
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: little VW beetle. We drove to Spain and which just
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: came in Spain normally was with a little ground and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and and and and from campsite to campsite, and then
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: we booked a bus tour organized tour to Morocco and
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: then we ended up doing this bus tour. We went
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: then to Toanga and we went to Touta and just
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: this little very little tip of upper Morocco. Yeah, that
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: was then our organized bus trip. And then we on
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: that bus trip. Actually, then we decided now that is
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: not our way of traveling. We want to explore in
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: our own time and in our own way. And that's
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: when we this, and then we had a our the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: second cause at the beetle actually broke broke down, and
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: our first journey the beetle broke down. We had to
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: interraal back to to and then we had a Ascona,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: also orange one that was also an orange Plascona, and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: that o Plascona was so fancy and so shiny. And
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: then I said, okay, if we really want to travel
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to Morocco, we cannot use that of plas COONa because
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: you see how the people are that touching the car
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: and maybe somebody bumps into it, and you are already
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: totally out of your mind if somebody makes us scratching
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: your car. Now we need a more dirdy car. And
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: that's how the idea of the land rover came up,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: because then that was then seventy nine, and then the
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: idea came up from a land rover. A land cruiser
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: was also common, but I cannot properly remember why we
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: actually choose a land rover, but I had, as far
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: as I can remember, it was easier to get hands
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: on the land rover than on a toyota. So that
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: was then the decision came to the land rover, and
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: that's how the landrover came into our life. And then
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: we actually we did several trips and to the Sahara
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: to then further down West Africa, and then nineteen eighty
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: seven we actually then decided to make a big overland tour.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: So we were then on the road with this land
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: rover one to nine for three years when we crossed
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: them from North Africa to South Africa and then went
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: back from South Africa back to North again.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: We were your greatest memories from that three year trip.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: What I can say when I look back now from
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: my perspective now, then I think that the time at
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: this time, it was much more. It was in a
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: way complicated, more complicated to travel. But on the other
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: hand it was also easy because you know, we had
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: no mobile phone, we had no GPS, we traveled with
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: normal maps. Yeah, when we when you went through the Sahara,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: you had went with the compass or you followed tracks.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And also when I was when we then were further down,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: which is then not like in the Sahara, an anymore
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: where you maybe can go completely off road. Even then
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: you follow trucks tracks, but you cannot really you the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: possibilities maybe to drive, to take a wrong turn, or
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: not to drive somewhere wrong was much more. Was much more,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: was much more possibility maybe at that time, and this
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I can remember that that I that it that in
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: a way for me as a newcomer, it was more exciting.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: But on the other hand, traveling with my second husband
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: was also very exciting, but in a in another way
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: because he was a kind of a crazy guy and
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: a crazy driver. He said, I've got it to Yota,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and with Toyota nothing is impossible, and that's how he drove,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: you know, And we had so many really hairy situations
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: because we did so so extraordinary off road trips which
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I never would have dreamed of with with with with
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: with the land ROWA. Yeah, it was in a way,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: this was also very exciting, but in another way exciting
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that that on my first journey, But I cannot say
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: that I was specific thing what was makes sense?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, from those off road tracks that you did with
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: your second husband, were there any that stand out to
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you today that you remember doing that were particular clearly, Harry.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The particular hairy one was that we crossed the
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Simpsons Desert. May be also the Australians hear it now,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: but anyway they cannot, they cannot what you say, do
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: anything to me now with some out of us. We
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: cross the Simpson Desert illegally, Yeah, normally, and because the
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Simpson Desert is closed during a bring I think during
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the rain season, during during when when they the weather
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: is not good. So normally you have to pick up
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: a satellite phone at a specific you have to regice
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: the food acrossing. You have to pick up a set
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: light phone. You have to rent it, pay money for it,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: so you have to pick up a set land one
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: when you reach them coming from I don't I can't
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: remember another name where we came from, but you reach
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: them Birdsville and then you have to turn in your
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: satellite phone again. And we didn't. We didn't want that.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: We never wanted to be like that. Somebody knew where
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: we were. So we crossed the Simpson Desert alone, illegally
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: in the bad season. That means we had the wind
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: against us. The tracks were all gone or nearly gone,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and all the dunes were when the wind blows onto
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: a dune, and that blows towards you. Then then the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: steep side, the steep side of the dune is always
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: on your side. That means when you drive, you always
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: have to always have to drive against the steep side.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: So we always had a break of let's say thirty
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: forty fifty centimeter up to a meter where you actually
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: have a vertical climb onto a dune. And we actually
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: did me not, but he dicked himself through Simpson Desert,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: and you know, with no satellite phone, with an old car,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: because that one was also an old car, nobody knows
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: where you are. And so that was that was I
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: would say, totally unresponsible, totally Harry. But I trusted him.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I trusted him with my life. I knew he is
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: a kind of he still is a kind of a
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Macguiver type. You give him a buyer and a piece
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: of wood and he builds a rocket out of it,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: you know. So I trusted him. I trusted him that
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: he gets that he gets us out of every pet situation.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: But when I think about it now, then I think
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: we were completely crazy to do that, completely crazy, And
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and that is also a reason now when I speak
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: to other of a lender and lenders. I know a
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: lot of a lot of people are very keen about offroading,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: about this, about that, and I want to do this,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and I want to do that. And then I always say,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: for myself, no, I don't need it anymore. You know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I don't need to drive what I did. Also in Australia,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I don't need to drive between one hundred meter one
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: hundred meter high tunes, a very small stats stretch of
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: beach where I can only drive when it's when it's
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: low tide. Yeah, and as soon as the high tide
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: catches you, your car and yourself or may be gone.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah I did, I did it. Yeah. And then I think, okay,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I these kind of things I don't need in my
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: life again. I drove up so steep, muddy roads onto
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: a mountain where we actually slipped backwards, where you cannot
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: control your car anymore, and where on the one side
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: is the mountain, but the car goes always to the
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: other side where there is nothing. Yeah, I myself, I oversink.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I'm a very bad driver. Okay, the car can do
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: much more than me. But I'm much too afraid to
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: do all these things because I've been in all these
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: hairy situations and I don't want to get into this.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Here is it on my own and I cannot taking
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: me out of the mat. Yeah, I cannot. If my
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: carrot roads down at June, I cannot get my car
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: up again. Yeah. I always say, okay, this all the
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: other people can do it, but I'm nearly seventeen. Now
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: I don't have to do it anymore because I've done
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: it all well. I've been in it all. I was passenger,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I've been in it all, and I don't need it
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: anymore in.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: My life, totally. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: now there are probably better ways for you to spend
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: your time that you get more fulfillment out of. And
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: like you're saying, you're traveling solo and so the decisions
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: that you're making are completely different than if you're traveling
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: in a group or with another person. So that makes
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: complete sense.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I still I'm still happy having a full
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: by four because specifically in Africa, maybe everywhere I don't know,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: but especially in Africa, situation can turn from you know,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: you can have a perfect tarrot and you come to
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: a place where, for example, the taro is gone like
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I had it now, but a tarot is gone, that
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: make maybe a deviation. You have to drive through a river,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: you have to drive through a very muddy passage, So
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: it can happen to you any time. And I still
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: if you know, if you're in a situation that you
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: want to go on or that you need to go
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: on because it's maybe the only road it brings you there,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: but your where you want to go, you still have
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: to do it. And I still have to do it, Yeah,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: but I'm not doing it voluntarily anymore. Yeah, and out
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: of fund and out of out of adventure, not.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's different. Tell me a little bit about how
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So you're talking about your second husband and you were
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: traveling together and then you ended up separating, and then
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: you decided to travel on your own. And I imagine
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that took a lot of courage to start on your own.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: You started with a mobile home, driving it in Europe
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: to build confidence. What did that part of your life
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: look like building that confidence to go travel on your
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: own back in Africa?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Until I turned fifty five, until I separated, I've never
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: driven post of my husband's were keen off roaders. I
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: was on the pest sitting on the passenger side and said, okay,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: we're going here. I'll be driving, there'll be going there.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I've never never been driving on my own. And then
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: because also when we separated, we had a truck in Europe.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: We had no house or no fleg, no home, so
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I had to move out of the truck into a car.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: And I wanted, I wanted, and we were living these
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: normal lifestyle since ten years, so I could also then
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: already I could not imagine just training a flat somewhere,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: being bound to one specific town once where. So that's
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: when I actually did. Then that little v W bus
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: came up. But the VW bus, the bus was too
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: small for me in wintertime in Germany, it was unconvenient,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: no real heat, nothing, So that's why I bought them
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a mobile home. And with just a mobile home, then
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I traveled in Europe. And then I actually built up
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the courage and I learned it also that I can
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: take responsible, that I must take responsibility for my life
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: for my car. That took me actually quite a while,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and only after four years I was the VW bus
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: and I had the VWS bus for two years and
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: then uh then the well home. Only after four years
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I had the courage to actually go traveling with my
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: four x four with my land Cruiser. Yeah, and even
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: then with my land Cruiser when my first journey was
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: started in twenty sixteen, even with my land Cruiser, I
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: needed about one and a half years to take full responsibilities.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: You know, my my ex husband was a car mechanic.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I've never ever had to take care of a car. Yeah,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: so now suddenly I have a car and I have
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: to take care of a car. So my first thousands
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: of kilometers I did not change my oil. Yeah. I
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: drove until nothing, until nothing worked anymore. And then when
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I got when I took apart my then my actually
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: my my fuel filter purse, took apart my fuel filter.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: It was so dirty. Then I said, okay, I cannot
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: even imagine that I drove around with such a dirty
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: feel filter. But it was in a way, it was
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: also a kind of are you saying English? Our separation
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: was not a really good one. Just put it like this.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And I had a partner who did everything everything for
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the car. Now I've got the car, and now I'm
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: the one who must take responsibility of the car, and
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I completely cut it out. I cut it out of
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: my mind. I maybe didn't want to as a as
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: a kind of no that car must run on its own.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I don't want to think about it. I don't want
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: to hear anything about it. You know. On my mobile home,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I took a hitchhiker with me, and this hitchhiker told me, I, Lily, listen,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I think your breaks are making a noise. And I said, oh,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: my breaks are making a noise. I hear a nursing
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: no I'm sure you have to go to a workshop.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Your breaks are making a noise. I went to the workshop.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: My brakes were so down that they had to grind out,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: saying God. It was in Greece and they did it
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: the African way. Otherwise I would have needed new break
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: round drums. So he just grind it. Grind it made
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: him smooth again, and then I could rave again. Because
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't listen. I couldn't hear it that
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: my breaks are making a noise, a normal noise of what.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't even heed. Only I hit chik and then
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: told me, no, your brakes are completely gone. That's the thing,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: you know, That's what I had to learn now today,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I would not let any anybody else drive my car,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I would be totally anxious. Oh no, no, no, he
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: kills my gearbox. He does this, he does this. If
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I have to do something, I drive it into the workshop.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I drive it over the pit. So I don't lend
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: anybody drives my car. Nowadays, I as.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: You become com triple with.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Go ahead. Yeah, because I became comfortable with it. Because
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I had to, because the car is my possibility to
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: lead this kind of life. If I don't have the
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: car and the car is not driving me there where
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I want to go, you're done? Should I How should
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I come there? I had to. It was a necessity.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I had to. I could not say I said it
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: as I said for one and a half years I
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: said it. Oh no, all change of record or need
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: an I didn't even think about it. I did not
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: say Acord doesn't need an old change. I didn't even
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: think about it. Yeah, I did not. I and and
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: and now I'm very I'm very much after As soon
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: as there is a little bit on the car, I
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: always try to maintain it properly. I'm not doing it myself.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want to have do it hands. I'm a girl.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to have thirty but I find fine.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I don't like it. I don't like it at all. Yeah,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I can't change my tire, but I don't like it.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: If somebody else is there, I would change a tire
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: for me. I always would choose somebody else changing your
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: tire for me. I also would rather pay for good tires.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Then I don't have to change a tire, so it's
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: also a thing. But yeah, now I'm very I'm very
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: much after it because I have to and this sort
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: of thing. I do have a very old car, and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: the car always gives a problem, and I had horrible
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: accident and I had horrible breakdowns with my car. But
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, you know, I've got very little money.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I'm traveling on a very tight budget. Actually even if
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I don't have a specific budget. But I look very
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: much after my money. When I started with fifty five,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: and I said, okay, fifty or I was already fifty
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: eight or so when I started fifty nine. So when
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I started, I thought, okay, I can go on maybe
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: for traveling for two or three years, and then my
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: money will be finished, and then I will have to
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: go back to Germany. Because I had the question when
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I was fifty five and we separated, what am I
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: going to do? You know with Germans we have a
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: good education, we can I have got a proper education.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I could always find work in my profession. But with
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: fifty five, as a woman, you're always the fifth wheel
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: on the wagon. So and then I saw to myself, okay,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: what can you do? You can? You can? You cannot
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: choose the play at the city or the place where
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you work. You can have maybe a little small flat,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: you can have a small call. You might be and
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: have four weeks holidays a year. That's it, and now
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I should just work for another I had to still
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: had to go another eleven years until I could go
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: into pension. You can shoot me. That was no. If
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I've been ten years on the road, you have I had.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: I had no, no, no inclination at all going back
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: to work and spend eleven years working just to get
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: maybe thirty forty fifty euro more pension afterwards? That it
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: no for what?
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: No?
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I want to go on with this kind of life. Yeah,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: and now I must say with my old car, it
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: is simply like this. That's all what I have. And
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: if I would need to buy a newer car, a
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: car which I would like then, Like I said, as
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: thirty four by four with a little cabin on the
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: top was sol then I would not have money for
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: trilling anymore. So I have no alternative. I have to
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: take this old car. I have to take what I have.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I have to see that it's running, and then I
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: can go on. I still can go on. And that's
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: what I'm doing now. I'm already just fifty five. Now
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I'm sixty nine. We are fourteen years later, and I'm
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: still living this, living this kind of life.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Not a week goes by that someone doesn't reach out
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: to ask how they can help support the podcast. We
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: are supported entirely by Overland Journal the magazine. So when
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal print magazine,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: you get this beautiful book that comes in five times
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: a year. It also gives you access to our digital archive,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: and it's well over one hundred pages of gorgeous images
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: and detailed testing and adventures from around the globe. So
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: if you go to Overland Journal dot com and you
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: subscribe to the magazine, the Code Overland podcast and that'll
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: get you twenty percent off. It's only available to our
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: podcast listeners. We don't advertise it anywhere else, and then
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: you help us to maintain that independent, employee owned journalism
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: that we have been famous for, so it allows us
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: to conduct those tests without any advertorial Another way you
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: can help out too. I produced a book last year
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding one oh one. You
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: can find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble or
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades of
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: travel around the world, all my mistakes and failures and
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: the lessons that I've learned in traveling around the globe.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: Many of those that you hear on the podcast have
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: been distilled down into print form with great lists and
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: beautiful imagery. So you can find that at your local bookstore.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Overlanding one on one. And thank you all for listening
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: and for supporting us so much throughout these years.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it sounds like this is like you said
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: what you want to do, and you'll do what it
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: takes to live this way.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a kind of a very very strong intention,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: a very strong will to live this kind of life.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And also when I'm talking with my friend here, she's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: got her farm she's got houses, she's got this. She said, no, Lily,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: you should have actually invested your money in a house
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: that you would have maybe an income or this and this.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I said no, I said, you know what, You make
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: a decision in your life and you cannot go back.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: You make this decision, this is this kind you want
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: to live, and you try everything that you that that
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: that you can do it. Yeah, and then you can.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: You I cannot start with seventy to to to to
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: start a career or to build up a build up,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: build up money or whatsoever. Yeah, this is that possibility
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is gone. Yeah, I can go on with my life,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: which I like. I like my life very much. I
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: like my nomadic life. It is actually a good it's
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: also a good possibility when you look at like, for example,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: the visas. You normally get only a three months visa
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: in a country and then you have to go out.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: In sometimes countries is steen easy to get another three
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: months and you can stay six months, but after six
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: months you have to go. You have to drive out.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: And it would be no use for me now to
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: buy a little cottage, even if I would have the
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: money to buy a little cottage here somewhere, in South
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Africa or in another African country. I don't want to
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: be settled. Still that traveling around. Even if I'm staying
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: a month on these places and maybe spend three months
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: in Kenya on the Indian Ocean, I'm still living a
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: nomadic life. After three months ago, I have to go.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I have to travel out and going to the next
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: country and stay, for example, in Uganda at a lake
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: for a month or two. If I like it, yeah, yeah,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: that kind of nomadic life. Yeah, it is the way
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I want to live and how I like it, even
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: if I'm now staying longer at places than I did before.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you love so much about this way
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: of life? Because it keeps bringing you back over and
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: over and over again. You know, sometimes you go home,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: sometimes you're in another place, but you've been on the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: road for a long time, on the stretch, and obviously
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you love it. I'm assuming, So what is it about it? Back?
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm a long time on the road and I,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: for example, I feel it now. I'm just said OsO
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: to Karen, I said, you know, allan true being here
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: now for a week with her. I have been here already.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I've been It's just not a third time that I
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: visit her on the farm. I enjoy it. I enjoyed.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Just ought to come back to places where I have
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: been before, where I felt good before. I don't need
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: to explode so many new things. I'm a little bit
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: tired of it. I don't need to check out this
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: place and check out this place. Also, when I was
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: now for at least I think three or all together,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I was now three or four months in Kruger Park
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: and also on my last thing, now I was more
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: than a month on one camp site. And there's the
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: same thing. I don't need to drive around a lot.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I just enjoy being there. Yeah, and I it is
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a kind of uh, it's also kind of a possibility
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: which is not to expense. Yeah, like for example, if
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: I have to pay for for example, I will actually
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: when I'm going back, and I'm traveling upwards now back
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: to Tanzania in the next year, so I then will
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: stay another three months in Botswana. But the three months
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: or nearly three months, two and a half months, I
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: will stay on one place. But I know the place.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: I get a good rate and I don't have to
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: move because all the wild life is passing me. I don't.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I'm in the wilderness. All the wild life comes past me.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I don't have to move. I don't have to drive
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: around with my pension. I can pay my accommodation. I
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: can pay my food. Every kilometer I drive with my
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: old car, which needs a lot of diesel, I take
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: from my savings. So the less I drive, the less
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: I need to go on my savings. Yeah, there's also
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: a reason, because you know a lot of Overlander you
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: meet them, they are young people. They do it like
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: they do Overland a time, like as a gap in
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: their life for one year, two years. But then, like you,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: you are so young, you go back to your life,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: you work again. That's what I did all my life anyway.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I traveled, I went back to work. I saved money,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I traveled again. And now I'm at a point where
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, I'll get my very little pension. I've
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: got a little a little bit of savings. I still
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: can go on and do this kind of life. I don't.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: And as I said, the nomadic life is easier for
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: me because then I can I can't take it slow,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: you know, I'll go I'll travel now from South Africa,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I travel to Botswana, I will stay three months in Botswana.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Then I traveled to Zambia. I stay three months in Zambia.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I go on. I traveled to Transadia. I travel three
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: months to stay three months in Kenya. In Kenya, the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: three months I will be staying at the pitch at
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: the Indian Ocean. I don't have to move. Yeah, I
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: like it. If I can hear the base of the
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Indian Ocean for three months, you know the same thing.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I don't have to move because I've got even see
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: what I need. It's like if I would have a
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: little house on the sea or on the ocean, I'll
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: have it for three months and then I'll move again.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I'll have to move again.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I love the familiarity too, because you're going to places,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: like you were saying that you're going back to, and
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: you're seeing people that you've seen before. And sometimes overlanding
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: can be like new things all the time and new
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: faces and new people, which I love. But also when
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: you come back to a place and you develop those
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: relationships with people and you get to know the place
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: more deeply, or you know, you find something at the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: store that you didn't know was there last time, where
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: they're like all these little joys and being able to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: come back to a place multiple times.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's also, as I said, it's what I what
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I like. I could have also now choosen a different way,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: but I just I especially went back here to the farm.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: They said, Okay, Karen, I'm tired. I'm tired at the
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: moment trying out new places. I'll just come back. I
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: know it's nice, it's convenient here. I can organize a
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: few things from here. Why should I look for other places? Yeah? Yeah,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: maybe it has got something to do with age, I think.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: But and if you have had experienced a lot, and
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: for me, I really don't have the drive anymore. For example,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I could aught to ship my car to to South
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: America and start all over in South America again, but
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: that would be a completely new continent. I would know
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: that I would miss Africa, and I don't want to. Also,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: like when I told you about my second husband, normal,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: our original goal was to travel to India, I would
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: not travel to I don't want to travel to India anymore.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: The time is gone. You made another decision, and then
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: you cannot turn back. The time you cannot say, okay,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: don't have I don't have the drive to do it anymore.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I don't want to. I don't want to inconvenience a
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: lot of people. Everything is new, it's hard, and it's
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: also hard, you know, it's stressful if everything is new
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: and you have to organize everything. Also, I said also
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: to Caren, you know, it's because I've got another possibility
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: where I could stay and which is a nice place
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: and so and I said Karen. Then I drive there.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I stayed there for two or three nights. I don't
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: want to unpack. I don't want to unpack and drive
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: now and then pack and unpacked, pack and unpack. Rora,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I stay here for a week and don't have to
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just enjoy, enjoy.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. So Also you see that also a
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: journey can take a different what you say, a journey
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: can also take a different can turn out different. Yeah, totally.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I enjoy going to places or in that region which
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: I know to the right time of the year. You know,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: you don't want to sit in the mountains when it's
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: freezing cold. Yeah, but then I'd rather sit at the
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Indian Ocean because even if it's raining raining on the
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: on at the sea and when the rain is warm,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: it is better than I sit on the mountain and
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: it's no, it's knowing.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Then I okay, I can choose, you know, I can choose.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I can just travel a few hundred or a few
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: thousand kilometers further and then I'm in a better climate
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: and I'm in a better place.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: It just makes Sensely, it just makes sense. I got you,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I get it. I have one more question before we
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: wrap this up. In all the years of your travel,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: do you feel safe traveling solo as a female? Has
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: this changed from the beginning and you're traveling with somebody
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: else to now on your own?
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I think there is no problem traveling alone
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: as a female. It doesn't really matter if you are
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: alone or if you're a female, or if you're a couple.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: It's really I think it's not such a big difference.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Couples get marked or robbed, or I got robbed. It
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: doesn't really meta. I think either your faith or whatever
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: you want to say, it brings you in an unsafe
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: situation or not. And for me, it doesn't make a
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: difference if I'm alone or if I would be two people.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Not at all. Hey, I like, for example, it's just
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: it to carring. For example, in the Kruger Park, it's
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: a national park. At the campsite there you can actually
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: be sure that you are safe because it's a big area,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: it's a big national park. There is no robberies, there
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: is nothing like this, so you you are very safe.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I could also sleep there with open doors. Maybe it
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: would be there not so safe. Maybe a leopard could
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: jump over the fence and could take me out of
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: the car, but that would be very very very very
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: unusual if this would happen. Yeah, but I feel very safe,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: like inter national park like this. That's what I also
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: enjoy it because I've been robbed on a campsite on
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: a lodg. Yeah, with people around me, and you can
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: never say that you are that you are really safe. Yeah.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Also I'm here on a farm. There is a little
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: road running past the farm. Everybody who would think, okay,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: maybe I can steal something or can find something, could
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: walk up the road and could rob us or whatsoever. Yeah,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: that can happen anytime. But there is no difference if
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: you are alone as a female or if you are
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: a couple. As I said, I've I've already heard so
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: many stories also about couples, which I really got injured
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: and badly when they got dropped. You know, my robbers
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: saying God they had no weapons. Yeah, but they still
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: tried to drag me out of my car. But I
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: only grabbed my feet and then I could stamp with
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: my feet and could Yeah, it could still push them
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: out of my car. But also if they would have,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: if they would have had a knife or so, it
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: would have would have could have been very bad. But
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: there are stories where people get dropped and it's very
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: bad and get injured. But it doesn't matter if you're
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: a female or if you're a couple, and it doesn't
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: matter if you're if your husband is big and strong.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It really doesn't matter. It can happen to you any time,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: whatever situation you are, and you almost feel like be unlucky.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: You can have an accident, You can have an accident
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: in a city where there are a lot of people around,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: where the bob is trying to hurt you. Can all happen,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: can happen anytime anywhere where.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: You are agreed, And do you feel lucky.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: That it doesn't happen all the time?
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Agreed? Agreed? Yeah, I feel like that's a question that
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: I get often or semi often. It's like, do you
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: feel safe traveling where you are? And I would say yes,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: most of ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: I feel safe.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you feel unsafe and then you change
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: it exactly, you do it different. Like I said, I
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed my time now in this big national park
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: where I know I will be safe. Or here on
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: the farm Karin had never had an incident, I know
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I'd be in a way safe. Yeah hmm here Yeah,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: great stuff.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Lee for sharing all your
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: experiences with us today. It's been so nice chatting with
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: you and it's such a great honor to have you
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: on talking about all of your travel experiences and with
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: vehicles in Africa, and yeah, it's been lovely, So thank you,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: and I'd love to know where we can find you online.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I'm very active on social media, so I post every
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: day on Facebook. I shared it on Instagram. People could
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: follow my journey on Polar Steps. There I post much
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: more pictures from the from the single steps where I am.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I do have a website which is lily Dash two
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: and I actually looked for a name of my website
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and then I'll ask around and then you know, at
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: this stage it is, it says not more than ten
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, then it was so common with this
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: coffee to go, oh, food to go. And then one
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: of my friends said, why don't you call you your
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: website Lily to Go because you want to go traveling.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Its sounds nice, Lily to Go. So that's got a website.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: But I'm not really active on my website, but my
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Facebook things which I post on Facebook ta will also
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: appear on the website. And there's also this polar step
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: map where you can see where my root Isn't that
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: the single steps so people can follow me there.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Perfect We will include those links with the podcast. And
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: then we also did an interview together for Overland Journal
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, which is wild to think about
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: that now. So that's actually on Expedition Portal as well
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: as in Overland Journals. So we'll link to that below
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: so people can read that interview on Expedition Portal, and
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: then it's also in Overland Journal Summer twenty twenty one
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: issue and it has some amazing photos of you in
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: there from all spends of your life, which is yeah,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: it's quite cool. So I would recommend people check that
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: if they're interested. But yeah, thank you for taking the time.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: And you might. I must tell you also that you
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: made a very nice article. Thank you. Anybody ever really
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: did write about me? Really, I must say, oh, well,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: it's a lot. Thank you. Well, I'm so honored you
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: really got a talent to rep a certain kind of
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: story up. Really, so I'm very thank you you.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: I'm honored to be able to share people's stories. Thank you.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: You're great too. It's been so wonderful and I love
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: so much that these stories can be shared on the
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: podcast in the magazine because they're really important and it's
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: great to be inspired by other people's journeys and take
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: wisdom from those. So yeah, so yeah, thank you again.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot for having me wonderful.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Special shout out to the Overland Journal podcast listeners for
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: tuning into today's episode. I hope you enjoyed it and
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: we will catch you next time.