Latest / The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast / 194. All About “Pursuers” and “Withdrawers” In A Relationship. Why It Can Cause Disconnect, And The Simple Steps To Fix It

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194. All About “Pursuers” and “Withdrawers” In A Relationship. Why It Can Cause Disconnect, And The Simple Steps To Fix It · The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast

0:00
intro: You are listening to the Ultimate Intimacy Podcast, where we discuss how to find ultimate intimacy in your relationship.
0:07
intro: We believe that, no matter how many years you've been married, you can achieve passion, romance, happiness and ultimate intimacy at any stage of your life.
0:16
intro: Join us as we talk to not only marriage experts, but couples just like yourself and people who are just flat out fun.
0:24
intro: The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast is for couples who have a good relationship but want to make it even better.
0:45
Nick: It is the ultimate intimacy podcast with Nick and Amy, and today's episode is all about pursuers and withdrawers in a relationship and why it can cause disconnect and what you can do about it.
0:58
Nick: That's kind of a long title, sorry.
1:00
Nick: But, oh, go ahead.
1:05
Amy: I was just going to jump in and say what is a pursuer Nick.
1:10
Nick: Well, that's a great question.
1:11
Nick: You wouldn't be?
1:13
Amy: a pursuer.
1:13
Amy: Would you by any chance?
1:15
Nick: It depends, I think, depends on the situation, but I think in every well, I shouldn't say every relationship, but a lot of relationships there's often a spouse that's a pursuer and there's often a spouse that's a withdrawer, and so obviously, as we dive into this, this can cause some conflict.
1:36
Amy: So does this have to do with pursuer of sexual intimacy, pursuer of intimacy or pursuer of just everything?
1:44
Nick: I think it falls under a lot of categories.
1:46
Nick: There's just different types of personalities, where one person is going to be the one pursuing things, maybe expressing their desires and their needs, and there's going to be maybe the other spouse as a withdrawer, where they're a little more quiet and they withdraw from things.
2:03
Nick: And we're going to, as we go through this, we'll share maybe some times in our marriage, because I think there's definitely been times where I'm a pursuer in things and a withdrawer in other things.
2:15
Amy: I was going to say it depends on the category.
2:18
Nick: Yeah.
2:18
Amy: Sometimes you're a withdrawer and most of the time you're a pursuer.
2:22
Nick: But and there might be for some couples it might be almost all the time they're pursuers and the other couple might be all the time they're withdrawers.
2:28
Nick: I think in our situation there's definitely been certain times where I've kind of played both roles, even if that's maybe a little bit outside my personality.
2:38
Amy: I'm excited to learn.
2:40
Nick: Learn.
2:41
Amy: Mix.
2:41
Amy: The expert on this one, oh my heck, I'm definitely not the expert.
2:44
Amy: Mix an expert in the marriage.
2:46
Nick: But I mean, I guess let's just kind of start out with identifying what is a pursuer and what is a withdrawer, so it can kind of resonate with people.
2:55
Nick: But I think a pursuer is the spouse in the relationship who maybe tends to see closeness, intimacy and emotional connection more actively.
3:06
Nick: And you're smiling.
3:09
Amy: That would be you.
3:10
Nick: That would definitely be me, no question.
3:13
Amy: Nick wants more closeness, more intimacy and probably more emotional connection too.
3:18
Nick: Yeah, that's probably true.
3:19
Nick: I like also a pursuer who's going to express their needs for affection and reassurance.
3:28
Nick: A pursuer might be a little bit more sensitive, especially if their spouse is distancing themselves or closed off.
3:37
Nick: That's definitely me.
3:39
Nick: So yeah, I'm definitely a pursuer.
3:43
Amy: You know, what's funny is a certain group of listeners are going to be like, oh, he's the perfect man.
3:49
Amy: But unless your spouse is like that, that can cause problems too.
3:56
Amy: Yeah, it might be annoying or something Like a lot of men are like, well, when I do that, my wife doesn't look at me like masculine anymore.
4:04
Amy: Or they want more an outfit kind of personality in the marriage.
4:09
Amy: And so everyone's different, everyone wants different things, right.
4:13
Nick: For sure, and I think this is a big one too, because pursuers often feel more secure when they feel emotionally connected with their spouse, and they might feel more anxiety or stress when there's that detachment or distance.
4:26
Nick: I totally feel that way.
4:27
Amy: And we're not going to get into all the attachment detachment, all the psychological stuff.
4:34
Nick: But, yes, agree, yeah yeah, and so again, I think I mean I, I definitely feel like I'm a person, the pursuer in the relationship, in our relationship.
4:44
Nick: Anyways, I know what I want and I'm gonna try to go get it.
4:49
Nick: I'm just teasing.
4:52
Amy: Next high maintenance.
4:54
Nick: Really you think I'm high maintenance, I'm easy, I'm cool, as my dad would say.
5:02
Amy: I'm cool.
5:03
Amy: He thinks he's cool, but he's opposite of you.
5:05
Nick: He says you're high maintenance, I don't need much, I'm cool.
5:08
Amy: He thinks you're high maintenance.
5:09
Amy: He thinks you're like his wife.
5:10
Amy: Yeah, I don't think pursuers bad at all.
5:17
Amy: I think it's a very, very good thing.
5:18
Amy: I I'm not saying it's negative at all, it's just it's when one's a brush the pursuer and one's a withdrawer, it just can cause Contention which we'll talk about Exactly like it doesn't mean when I say needy, I just think that, nick, like I'm pretty independent, I don't, I don't need a lot from you.
5:41
Amy: Maybe that's cuz I I get what I need.
5:43
Amy: That might be what it is.
5:44
Amy: I don't feel like I do feel like you're.
5:47
Amy: Needy a little like just different.
5:52
Amy: You're just.
5:52
Amy: You just have a different personality in me and most marriages are like that Like when we're making love, I'm I'm literally like.
5:58
Amy: He's always says like when we're done, I'm like night and he's like let's talk, let's talk.
6:03
Nick: Let's cuddle.
6:04
Amy: Let's cuddle and and that's great.
6:05
Amy: Like that's good for the other person.
6:08
Amy: For for somebody to be like that right.
6:11
Nick: Yeah, and I'm not saying always, but he's probably more like a man in our relationship and I may be more like a woman in some ways.
6:19
Amy: Besides that, you don't have any of the nurturing or the cleaning.
6:22
Nick: Yeah, that's true, I know that's true.
6:24
Amy: But I am kind of more the workaholic, I Think, and the financial dreamer.
6:29
Amy: I'm definitely a fine, I would have made it a great husband, but I also have that mothering, nurturing Side to.
6:37
Amy: I'm not bragging.
6:39
Nick: I'm not bragging, I'm freaking awesome.
6:41
Nick: But so more characteristics of a pursuer like myself are, you know, we often need regular reassurance, you know, and to know that our spouse cares for us and is emotionally available.
6:55
Nick: We're more likely, or I'm more likely, to initiate the discussions about the relationship.
7:01
Nick: You know my feelings, maybe issues that we're facing and I'm like oh, I feel great, relationships, great.
7:07
Amy: Well, what do you want to discuss?
7:08
Amy: Yeah, do you feel like this is at a level 10?
7:11
Amy: No, I'm a seven.
7:12
Amy: I'm good, though, right.
7:14
Nick: Yeah, for sure, I'm expressing vulnerability.
7:18
Nick: I'm definitely more like Going to pursue expressing my emotions and you've gotten better at that.
7:25
Nick: Yeah.
7:25
Amy: You used to suck.
7:27
Nick: I used to suck, but I'm bad.
7:28
Amy: But you're good now.
7:29
Amy: You're good now.
7:30
Nick: Conflict.
7:31
Nick: When conflict arises, pursuers may become more emotionally charged and passionate in expressing their needs.
7:37
Nick: There's I'd say there's no question about that and then fear of abandonment.
7:42
Nick: They may have an underlying fear of being abandoned or left alone, leading to heightened desire for emotional connection.
7:47
Nick: I would, I mean, I would say that's definitely not me.
7:51
Amy: That's what you, but that is a lot of people, yeah, and and a lot of people that have been through really bad breakups or any kind of trauma in that area.
8:00
Amy: Like that's Probably pretty natural, yeah, like that, right.
8:05
Nick: So as we went up, we went over those.
8:06
Nick: See if any of those resonate with you know, you or your spouse, and then let's talk about what a withdrawal is, and then we'll dive into the fun stuff when I think of withdrawal, I think of Kind of wanting to go hide beneath a rug and not talk about something right.
8:24
intro: Yes for sure.
8:26
Amy: Which is probably more of a man Thing in marriages.
8:31
Amy: I'm just guessing.
8:33
Nick: I don't know.
8:33
Nick: I was definitely a withdrawal at the first part of my marriage.
8:36
Amy: If we had, if I was frustrated with anything you're like I just don't want to talk about it.
8:40
Nick: Yeah, exactly, I would totally withdraw.
8:42
Amy: Yeah, but I would think that that maybe be more of a Maybe it's just personal, I don't know, like cuz but I think, I think you can change.
8:53
Amy: I agree with that.
8:54
Amy: I've just heard from a lot of women and wives that their husbands like to close down when certain things are addressed.
9:02
Nick: I don't know for sure, yeah, for sure.
9:05
Amy: Yep, keep going okay.
9:08
Amy: Characteristics Avoiding conflict.
9:12
Amy: You said already needing space, eating space.
9:17
Amy: Am I which are I like space a little bit?
9:21
Amy: Yeah, that's what I'm saying is like maybe it doesn't.
9:24
Nick: It's not gonna be like Absolute ones one and ones the other, or all these things fall under the same, like I feel like you could kind of have a little bit of both and I feel like having a little bit of both is healthy.
9:36
Amy: Cuz like everyone needs a little bit of space, right.
9:38
Amy: Sometimes you just need time alone to process your feelings, and Sometimes you do emotionally withdraw Sometimes.
9:47
Amy: But it's, it's doing hard times or difficult moments in your marriage that it's not okay to do that.
9:52
Nick: But I think what what we're saying is like a withdraw is going to need space all the time.
9:58
Nick: They don't want to express their feelings.
10:00
Nick: They're gonna withdraw physically and emotionally, doing difficult times like that's.
10:05
Nick: That is not healthy and that that is what a withdraw does.
10:09
Nick: And they also find it difficult expressing their emotions, which obviously we talk about all the time communication, communication, communication.
10:18
Nick: So withdraw is just, like I said, gonna close up.
10:21
Nick: They're not gonna want to express their feelings, they're not gonna want to communicate, they're just gonna kind of want to either move on from it or not address it.
10:29
Amy: I Can't tell you how many messages I got yesterday, just yesterday, about needs not being met in a marriage, and I asked when was the last time you addressed this, or when was the last time you let your spouse know how you were feeling?
10:48
Amy: Guess what my answer is for.
10:51
Nick: Oh, I'm sure that most people don't talk about that they just withdraw.
10:55
Nick: Which is crazy they just withdraw.
10:57
Amy: They come to me and they're like my spouse doesn't do this, this, this.
10:59
Amy: They never listen to my needs.
11:01
Amy: They have no idea what I want.
11:02
Amy: They're not taking care of my needs.
11:03
Amy: I'm so unhappy in my marriage.
11:04
Amy: When was the last time you expressed this to them?
11:07
Amy: I haven't I just gave up trying to let them know that that's withdrawing.
11:13
Nick: The reason why we're doing this podcast on a pursuer and withdrawers, because there are many marriages in this situation A lot of times.
11:21
Nick: Often couples just think, well, why they just won't talk to me, but they don't understand why.
11:26
Nick: If you understand that your spouse is a withdrawer and why they're a withdrawer because of that personality then you can understand why they won't communicate with you or why they close up, or vice versa, if your spouse is a pursuer, why they're so adamant about talking about things.
11:43
Nick: We want to discuss these things because it's important to understand what type you are.
11:50
Nick: Then we're going to dive into how do you deal with this, how do you balance these things?
11:57
Amy: You should know.
11:58
Amy: I would think after a few years of marriage at least you would know where your spouse falls into this and what you are.
12:05
Amy: You would know what makes them withdraw or the things that set that off.
12:14
Nick: I agree as well, but I think it's important to label them as well.
12:17
Nick: If you have a spouse that's reacting a certain way and you're like, why won't they talk to me?
12:21
Nick: It's really easy to say, oh, they're a withdrawer, they withdraw from things.
12:26
Amy: But why?
12:27
Nick: But why, but why?
12:29
Amy: That's the important question, but why?
12:32
Nick: Exactly.
12:32
Amy: I recognize those things when I recognized okay, nick is a pursuer in this way, this way and this way, that's great.
12:42
Amy: I can embrace that.
12:43
Amy: This is why that really helped our marriage.
12:48
Nick: Yeah.
12:49
Nick: For sure, no, I think for you and I, when we understood these things and more so, understood the reason why and then we were starting to have that good communication it was a lot easier to resolve a lot of things.
13:03
Nick: Another thing about withdrawers is they like independence.
13:07
Nick: They really value that time alone Amy's definitely smiling over there as we're talking about that and then a fear and engulfment.
13:17
Nick: So withdrawers really have a fear of being overwhelmed or, I guess, engulfed by emotional demands.
13:26
Nick: So that's one of the other reasons why they withdraw is it's kind of a protective mechanism to get them away from being overwhelmed with too many emotional things.
13:38
Nick: And we see that a lot in couples and marriages right All the time.
13:43
Nick: So again, which one are you?
13:47
Amy: Isn't it amazing, though real quick, how our backgrounds and our upbringing once again totally affect this?
13:54
Nick: Oh, no question.
13:55
Amy: It totally affect this, like the things that you've been through, the relationships that you had, your family environment, what you saw with your parents, like all these personal experiences full on kind of make us either a pursuer or a withdrawer.
14:09
Amy: Like every other aspect of all the things we talk about, right.
14:13
Amy: So once you really get to know your spouse.
14:16
Amy: That makes a huge difference.
14:18
Nick: Well, and getting back to the last thing, we just read withdrawer.
14:22
Nick: That's kind of a protective mechanism for them, right?
14:25
Nick: So that's the way they feel, like they protect themselves from things.
14:29
Nick: So obviously these imbalances can have a significant impact on relationships.
14:36
Nick: I mean, amy and I talk all the time.
14:37
Nick: We're like how do a lot of couples make it right?
14:40
Nick: Like there's so many little things that can cause problems in marriage.
14:46
Nick: I mean, there really are.
14:46
Nick: There are countless things that could cause disconnect, contention and serious problems in marriage.
14:54
Nick: I think it all comes back and circles back to communication.
14:57
Nick: Like if you're constantly communicating and saying, hey, this is something that's bothering me, or this is how I feel, or vice versa, and you're listening and communicating with each other, then you can resolve those things.
15:09
Nick: And when you're communicating and constantly talking about those things, it's easier to find a resolution versus if you're not communicating, nothing's ever getting resolved.
15:20
Nick: It's like a pressure cooker that's eventually just going to blow, like everything's building up and nothing's ever getting released or resolved.
15:29
Nick: But obviously, again, it can have significant impacts on the relationship.
15:34
Nick: So if you're a pursuer, you may feel really unimportant or even rejected when your spouse withdraws.
15:42
Nick: So if, for example, if I'm expressing something to Amy that's important, or I'm pursuing something and she totally just withdraws and rejects me.
15:52
Nick: That could make me feel very unimportant or like how I feel doesn't matter.
16:00
Amy: Which can also turn you into a withdraw right Because rejection.
16:04
Nick: Exactly.
16:05
Amy: Not rejection, but constant rejection of someone's feelings or in any kind of rejection, can turn the other person into a withdraw.
16:15
Amy: And this is the problem is when two people become withdrawers.
16:20
Amy: That's when the disconnect happens right and that's where that is sexually emotional.
16:24
Amy: All those games that we talk about being played.
16:27
Nick: Exactly.
16:28
Amy: You get to a point where two people become withdrawers.
16:31
Amy: They stop talking about it, they stop pursuing and there's just a major disconnect.
16:38
Nick: Yeah, I would say.
16:40
Nick: I would say there's exactly right.
16:41
Nick: I mean almost.
16:42
Nick: In a relationship you'd almost rather have two pursuers right For sure.
16:46
Nick: Because then you're constantly talking, you're pursuing each other.
16:49
Nick: Now, having said that, it doesn't mean that relationships can and won't work with a pursuer or withdraw, but you're exactly right.
16:57
Nick: So a great example.
16:59
Nick: So if I'm a pursuer and I'm pursuing to be close to Amy, let's just say sexually, and she's constantly rejected me and withdrawing from me, there's going to come a point where I'm like well, screw this.
17:12
Amy: I'm done pursuing.
17:13
Nick: I'm done pursuing and I'm going to pull back, and not only am I going to become a withdrawal, but I'm going to become a significant withdrawal and I'm going to be like all right, fine, I'm going to start withholding the emotional needs, I'm going to start withholding this, and then that gap just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, till the gap is so big it's almost impossible to close out again.
17:36
Amy: And you can call it that sexual intimacy, emotional intimacy game that's played a marriage that we always talk about it.
17:41
Amy: But it doesn't have to be that.
17:42
Amy: It can be the emotional, emotional game, or I mean just any aspect of marriage right can turn into that gap, just the communication gap alone.
17:53
Amy: For sure, if one person won't talk and then everyone's always trying to talk to the other person and open up with their feelings and they just get shut down and shut down, they stop talking, they're like fine, I'm not going to talk to you anymore, then you got two people that are not talking.
18:07
Amy: That marriage will not work.
18:10
Nick: And that's what happens to a lot of marriages.
18:11
Nick: And then they use the excuse like oh, my spouse just doesn't want to be into murder, my spouse doesn't offer the emotional, and that's just the way it is.
18:19
Nick: And then they start living their lives, just withdrawing and two people living together.
18:24
Nick: And then you become their roommates and there's a lot of marriages like that.
18:28
Nick: So another thing is withdrawers might feel overwhelmed or trapped by their spouse's emotional needs, like we talked about a little bit.
18:37
Amy: Which is normally a husband feeling overwhelmed because the wife needs too much emotionally.
18:46
Amy: That's what we hear.
18:47
Amy: I'm not saying that always feels like that, but that's what we hear.
18:49
Amy: A lot of right, exactly, yeah.
18:52
Nick: So, just like you said, I think for a lot of marriages the husband maybe becomes more of the withdrawal, especially if he's constantly getting rejected, and the wife is more of the pursuer.
19:02
Nick: So as you guys are out there listening, couples are out there listening.
19:08
Nick: I'll bet most of you can relate with exactly what we're saying.
19:12
Amy: So how or have been able to relate.
19:15
Nick: Exactly.
19:16
Amy: Because we've been at this, I mean we might be in a really good place now because we have learned all these things and we recognize it really fast and we want to fix it really fast now, but back in the day, when we didn't have any tools, I mean that's where silent treatment starts coming in right.
19:31
Amy: Like you get two withdrawers, two people that get bugged with each other, like you're bugging me, you're bugging me, let's talk about it.
19:36
Amy: I don't want to talk about it.
19:37
Amy: Fine, I'm not going to talk to you about it.
19:38
Amy: Let's not talk about it.
19:39
Amy: Fine, let's see how long we can go without talking about it.
19:41
Amy: Right, silent treatment, and then toxicity sneaks in.
19:45
Nick: Yeah, right.
19:46
intro: Like it gets bad.
19:47
Nick: Unfortunately, we've had to learn a lot of these lessons the tough way.
19:52
Amy: I think a lot of people have had to go through really hard things to come back and be like we're more mature now.
19:58
Amy: We can handle this better now, yeah.
20:00
Amy: But that's the awesome part about marriage I always want to point out.
20:04
Amy: Going through those hard, we don't know what we're doing.
20:07
Amy: Marriage sucked for a few years.
20:09
Amy: We didn't know how to communicate.
20:11
Amy: We didn't even know how to put our spouses put each other's needs.
20:16
Amy: For all those things.
20:18
Nick: We just didn't know, we didn't have the tools.
20:20
Amy: We didn't have those tools, and which is why, now that we finally have figured those out, I just want to help people, because that place in your marriage sucks.
20:28
Nick: Yeah, it's not fun to be in and we're still figuring out a lot of things, but in talking about how we bridge the gap because this is really what the meat is right, how do we balance these?
20:44
Nick: And, number one, you have to practice empathy, and Amy has been amazing at this, like I, definitely have the higher sex drive, as you've heard, of these podcasts, right?
20:52
Amy: Now.
20:53
Nick: Amy doesn't understand that, but.
20:55
Amy: I do understand that.
20:56
Nick: Well, what I was getting at is what we've done is tried to understand each other's perspective, is each other's needs, and how we cope with different things.
21:08
Nick: Right Like why do you feel the way you do, why do I feel the way I do?
21:12
Nick: And even though we may not fully understand, when you show empathy and you try to understand out the other person's feeling, it's a lot easier to find a balance.
21:25
Amy: OK, so let's just dive in a little bit deeper into that section.
21:28
Amy: So you said, ok, I am a higher drive, you are a higher drive and I'm a lower drive, and that was causing kind of a wedge right.
21:35
Nick: Correct.
21:36
Amy: So when you say we tried to learn what each other was feeling or going through, it was kind of like one of those honest conversations, like, ok, I had to step back and realize he is his body number one physical body is built different than mine, right?
21:55
Amy: Like you get a buildup.
21:57
Amy: Most women don't get a physical buildup.
22:00
Amy: Like there is a physical difference with our bodies.
22:03
Amy: Now, when I started talking to some friends that are nurses or medical experts in the area that, oh, if you're not feeling that kind of buildup at all, that might be a testosterone issue, which we are also going to be doing a podcast on because it's a big deal for a lot of women.
22:22
Amy: So, instead of being like, what's wrong with you?
22:24
Amy: Why is your sex drive so high?
22:26
Amy: Oh well, maybe I'm low, maybe there's something going on with my body.
22:32
Amy: Like, let's try and find this.
22:34
Amy: What we're talking about, bridging that gap, okay, I'm gonna go get my levels tested and see.
22:40
Amy: Like, why did I lose that libido?
22:41
Amy: Or maybe it is stress, or maybe it's lack of communication, with too much that I have on my plate or whatever that is.
22:48
Amy: That was conversations started to try and fix that gap is what I'm trying to say.
22:53
Amy: Right, and you could say all day long well, my spouse is annoying because they have such a high drive and I have a low drive.
23:00
Amy: Why does that make me the one that's broken?
23:02
Amy: It's not that you're broken.
23:04
Amy: It's okay, how do we find this balance?
23:06
Amy: It bugs me as much that he wants it all the time and I don't.
23:10
Amy: That doesn't mean one of us is right or wrong.
23:12
Nick: That means how do we find a balance?
23:14
Amy: How do we find a balance?
23:15
Amy: That's how you bridge gaps is not by like necessarily.
23:20
Amy: I can't fix my sex drive to be as high as his.
23:22
Amy: I don't know if that's ever gonna be possible.
23:24
Amy: We're bill different, but we can find a balance.
23:28
Nick: Well, and what you're talking about is so important?
23:31
Nick: Because oftentimes people do look at it and say something's wrong with you, it's not my fault, something's wrong with you, or vice versa.
23:37
Nick: Right, it always has to be someone's fault.
23:40
Nick: If you take away someone's fault and just try to show empathy and try to understand why your spouse feels the way they do, and vice versa, and then, like you said, number two is enhanced communication.
23:54
Nick: Like Amy said, if you sit down and really talk about things and it doesn't mean that you have to come out of it with someone's right and someone's wrong, that's not the point at all.
24:04
Nick: It's understanding how your spouse feels, how, if your spouse is a withdrawal, why do they withdraw?
24:10
Nick: Why do they feel that way?
24:11
Nick: Talk about those things and understand where they're coming from, and vice versa.
24:17
Amy: The only person that is in the wrong in a situation like this is the person that stops caring about the other person's needs.
24:24
Amy: Then you are in the wrong, then there is a right and a wrong, because the minute you stop caring about fixing that gap and having that empathy, you have withdrawn from caring about your spouse's needs.
24:40
Nick: And I know there's a lot of people out there saying whoa, so you're just telling me, if I'm a low to a desired spouse, I gotta give in to my spouse.
24:46
Nick: No that's not what we're saying at all.
24:47
Nick: We're saying try to understand where each other are coming from.
24:51
Nick: Talk about it.
24:52
Nick: Have that really good communication.
24:55
Amy: Fix that problem.
24:56
Amy: There is a solution to every problem, don't you think?
25:00
Nick: Absolutely, and if there isn't a solution, then agree that there isn't a solution and stop focusing on that.
25:06
Amy: But I really do think there has to be some kind of solution to every problem, or it wouldn't be a problem.
25:12
Nick: Right Like you can fix certain things, so it might not be a perfect solution, but there's gotta be a solution, but there's gotta be a solution.
25:20
Amy: So whether I mean you literally have to step back and pinpoint, why do I feel this way?
25:25
Amy: There's deeper reasons why someone would fit.
25:28
Amy: That's the problem is not wanting to figure out the solution.
25:32
Nick: Yeah, for sure.
25:33
Nick: So again, with with drawers and pursuers, you need to establish boundaries.
25:40
Nick: We talk about boundaries and how important they are, and these boundaries could be giving your spouse like maybe the emotional withdrawal, giving that spouse the space that they need while still trying to figure out how to maintain that emotional connection, right or vice versa.
25:59
Amy: Okay, so let's give an example of this.
26:00
Amy: So Nick is a total physical touch person, right?
26:05
Amy: You love physical?
26:07
Nick: touch, yeah, I guess.
26:08
Amy: So yeah, Like on a scale of like one to 10, you're like 11, right.
26:12
Nick: I'm a physical touch.
26:13
Amy: yes, he's a physical touch person.
26:15
Amy: Now, just because I'm not doesn't make me worse in any way, but when we're talking about boundaries, sometimes he can tell that I just kind of don't want to be touched, right.
26:31
Amy: So this is where communication comes in.
26:33
Amy: It's not because I don't love him or I'm over-touched during the day or any of those kind of things by little kids that kind of excuse that I get from a lot of moms.
26:43
Amy: Sometimes your spouse might just need a little separation not separation, bad word alone time, alone time to just disconnect.
26:55
Amy: And sometimes I will be like, hey, I'm gonna go take an hour bath.
26:59
Amy: We lock the door until the kids to leave me alone.
27:02
Amy: Sometimes I just need an hour to myself, and Nick's super good at respecting that, and vice versa.
27:07
Amy: When he needs something, you just tell me.
27:11
Nick: Yeah, for sure.
27:12
Amy: And we talk about it.
27:14
Nick: And again, it's important to recognize these things change because when Amy and I were dating she was all over me.
27:19
Nick: She was like totally physical touch and I'm she's laughing.
27:26
Amy: I am because well, it's not because it's funny, it's actually sad, and I'm actually stepping back and thinking like I wonder why I feel like that.
27:36
Nick: No, I was.
27:37
Amy: No, but this is a conversation that we can have another time, because I wonder why I feel like that.
27:42
Amy: I know that, like when we fall in love, there's a lot of those emotions that change infactuation, change state.
27:49
Amy: You know that stage changes, love becomes deeper and then all of a sudden, like in marriage, you're kind of like oh, I need some space now.
27:56
Amy: And like you couldn't keep your hands off of each other at the beginning, right?
28:00
Nick: And most men say that too.
28:02
Nick: Most men write us and say man, when we were dating, we're all over me and we got married.
28:07
Amy: And they want their wife to stay like that, but it just doesn't happen.
28:11
Amy: And men don't stay the same either.
28:14
Amy: They stop doing those things too.
28:15
Amy: So, anyway, it's just a deep thought, like I'm literally wondering, like I wonder why that changes.
28:21
Amy: We'll have to like do some polls and do an episode on that.
28:24
Nick: For sure, because now my mom's spinning right.
28:26
Nick: That was a good point, that was a really good one.
28:27
Nick: So, obviously, establishing boundaries.
28:29
Nick: Another thing is, you know, become emotionally aware, like Amy said, really try to understand how your spouse is feeling, why they're feeling the way they are, and then put a game plan together, like both of you, on how you're going to work on responding and understanding you know what triggers certain things with your spouse.
28:53
Nick: But really just becoming more aware and really putting a plan together as to how you're going to address things.
29:01
Nick: Like Amy and I I know we talk about this all the time on like, amy and I are very different in a lot of ways and if you were to look at it and say, oh, he, he's a very high drive and she's a low drive, and you were to like put all these things next to each other, you'd probably look and say, oh, these, they aren't really compatible.
29:20
Nick: But the truth is, like, because we've learned to communicate very well and talk about these things and I think most importantly is empathized with each other, I really do care how Amy feels and why she feels that way and she really cares how I feel and why I feel that way.
29:38
Nick: So two different people that feel different ways are able to come together and find a balance that works Right, like it's like it's like this works for us.
29:52
Nick: It may not be, you know, I don't want to say a perfect situation, because it really actually is pretty good.
29:59
Amy: Right Amazing.
30:01
Nick: Yeah.
30:01
Nick: So that's the point I want to make is, instead of using an excuse and saying, well, we're just too different, that's the way it is, that's the way God made us.
30:09
Nick: We just, we just aren't compatible, or whatever, I'm here to tell you that if you communicate and you try to understand where each other are coming from, you establish boundaries, you talk about things, you do the things that we just talked about and how and how to bridge the gap, and I promise you, you can have an amazing marriage, even if you both are different in a lot of ways.
30:30
Nick: Amy and I are different in a lot of ways.
30:33
Nick: She has strengths that I don't have.
30:35
Nick: I think I have some strengths that she doesn't have Maybe not, but she's an amazing person and we work really, really well together, even though we're so different.
30:47
Amy: Oh, that's sweet.
30:47
Amy: I agree with that.
30:49
Amy: I want to add that marriage is a test.
30:53
Amy: It's probably, to me, one of the biggest tests that we take in our life.
30:56
Amy: Like I really think, like we come to earth, we get married.
31:03
Amy: That's our big test.
31:04
Amy: Like it's hard, right, it's hard.
31:06
Amy: Because, we really are sacrificing what?
31:09
Nick: we want for what is better for each other and for the family.
31:15
Amy: So, because I look at marriage as a test, I know it's going to test us Like, I know that that's what it's for, but that can make us progress and become such better people and I truly believe that that happens.
31:28
Amy: But tests can be really hard, right, and so the whole point is, I mean, I think we make sometimes harder than it has to be.
31:37
Amy: For sure, but it's sometimes really hard to want to not withdraw or to want to open up at certain times or to want to have really hard conversations about things that are hurting the marriage.
31:48
Amy: That communication can be really hard but it's absolutely vital to having a happy marriage and you just have to do it.
31:57
Amy: You have to do it Like you cannot withdraw to a certain point.
32:02
Amy: You cannot do it in marriage, like there are certain times where you're like, no matter how big of a withdrawal I am, I have to step it up.
32:10
Amy: I have to step it up, and that's what it comes down to.
32:13
Nick: Yeah, and we get so many couples to say, oh, we're just too different, like that's why things aren't working is because we're too different, and they almost just give up and blame that it's because they're different.
32:26
Nick: Why even try?
32:27
Nick: Don't use that excuse.
32:29
Nick: If you follow the steps we talked about, if you communicate, talk about things and again understand where each other are coming from, you can have an amazing marriage.
32:40
Nick: Quit using excuses.
32:42
Nick: You fell in love, you connected, you decided to get married for a reason and open up that communication and you can have that relationship again, no matter how different you are.
32:57
Nick: Have those common grounds and I don't know.
33:01
Nick: I think this is a really important podcast.
33:04
Nick: I think this is a really important subject to be aware and understand if you're a pursuer or withdraw in certain areas or what aspects, and then really having those conversations and connecting again as a couple.
33:18
Amy: Marriage takes.
33:19
Amy: What was the word I was going to give out Compromise.
33:25
Nick: It does.
33:25
Nick: Marriage takes compromise.
33:27
Amy: You have to compromise and you have to do hard things.
33:32
Nick: Absolutely so.
33:34
Nick: We hope you enjoyed the podcast.
33:35
Nick: Let us know what you think and I know we're still several months out, but we've got the Intimacy and Adventure Retreat, march 21st to the 24th in St George, utah.
33:46
Nick: Go check it out at ultimateintimacycom slash retreats.
33:50
Nick: It's a blast.
33:53
Nick: The sound that attends just raves about how good of a time they had.
33:57
Nick: Sounds fun and what you're going to learn and come out of it with You're going to have some adventures that you've probably most of you have never done, and you're going to have intimacy at a whole other level, and the food is amazing, the scenery is amazing, the people you meet are amazing and just a great time, and you may want to book another couple of days to be here in the area as well.
34:20
Nick: There's a lot to do, so we hope let us know.
34:24
Nick: If you have any questions, email us at support at ultimateintimacycom, and until next time, we hope you find ultimate intimacy in your relationship.