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When Does Criticism Become Condemnation? · Bourbon & Rum

0:08
Welcome to another episode of Bourbon and Rum.
0:11
This is a podcast of two brothers from opposite ends of
0:15
the spectrum. My name's Kent, I'm a rum
0:22
drinker, and I'm from the left side of the aisle.
0:24
And I'm Kyle. I, like bourbon, tend to be a
0:26
little more conservative. Join us as we explore this
0:32
experiment. Can two brothers from different
0:35
sides of the political spectrum have a civil conversation and
0:39
celebrate our differences? What are you drinking?
0:54
Well, I am just drinking plain old Buffalo Trace, the regular
0:59
stuff. I'm, I'm staying at a hotel here
1:03
in Cleveland, OH, Nice view of the downtown.
1:06
I've been down here before, but I will say, you know, staying at
1:10
a hotel in order to double, double Buffalo Trace.
1:14
You know, the, the, the double that I got is over about $6 more
1:21
than a bottle of Buffalo Trace. So, you know, maybe this is poor
1:24
planning. What are you drinking on?
1:26
Well, I I've got a Zacapa. I did not buy the XO that you
1:33
recommended. This is their next step down.
1:36
This is the 23 year Solara. It's not.
1:42
The whole thing isn't 23 years old, but the oldest in it is 23
1:46
years old and it trickles through that, through that
1:49
system. So yeah.
1:50
The good part about that is at 23 at least you'll taste the
1:54
alcohol. If you're drinking that XO
1:56
stuff, you'd be thinking you're drinking Kool-aid until you're
2:00
completely toasty. It's it's pretty smooth.
2:04
It's a really nice sipper. It's really dark, man.
2:08
Yeah, but it's not overly sweet. I've got one that I queued up
2:12
that I decided not to drink. I'll catch you next time with
2:15
it. But I really like literally
2:18
sugary rum, like too much. I had to, I had to cut it.
2:22
It was so much. This is not that.
2:24
This is really smooth and refined like an old bourbon.
2:34
Lots going on or or nothing going on.
2:37
I guess our government remains unopened.
2:39
So there's that. And you're travelling.
2:42
Have you had delays? Any anything to see with?
2:45
That I haven't seen any delays. In fact, American Airlines has
2:49
been on time lately. Maybe we need more government
2:51
shutdowns. Maybe that's the answer to their
2:53
on time departure. It took a miracle or a shutdown
2:58
of the federal government, one of the other, to get.
3:00
That's right, maybe lost regulations of the sky or
3:02
something. Breaking as we record this, Dick
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Cheney passed away today and interesting, interesting guy.
3:13
I, you know, I probably no surprise that I wasn't a great
3:17
huge fan of how he let us after 911.
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But I was listening to a story on NPR about, you know, he was
3:26
in Washington when it when 9/11 all came undone and they they
3:32
said they carried him to the bunker below the East Wing.
3:37
By the way, do we have a bunker below the east wing or just like
3:41
there's a bunch of crushed up drywall and crap in the bunker
3:44
now? I don't know.
3:45
Possibly. I don't know, maybe that's the
3:47
secret. The secret dance floor will be
3:50
in the bunker. But, you know, I mean, a really
3:56
important figure in history of this country in the world,
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arguably so. Yeah, you know what?
4:02
That's really a fan of everything he's done.
4:04
But he was. I loved his.
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I mean, you talk about a guy who was calm, cool and collected.
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I just, I remember when he was running for re election and I
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think he had to, he had to debate John Edwards.
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And they were like, well, what'd you do today to prep?
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And he's like, I went fishing, you know, I went fishing this
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morning and got here and I'll do this debate, you know?
4:29
And meanwhile, like Edward just probably cramming up until the
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last minute, he's just out fishing, you know, like, OK,
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pretty laid back guy. Kind of an unflappable sort of
4:39
guy. Yeah, totally.
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Well, the other breaking news, I mean, there's been a lot of talk
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on the right circles, especially it's all over the news.
4:50
This Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes interview.
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You may have read about it. I didn't know much about Nick
4:56
Fuentes, so I of course it did some research and dug into it
5:01
and hey, guy sounds like kind of a Jackass.
5:05
I mean, he's he says a lot of stuff that is pretty
5:08
inflammatory and, and like some. Of the Internet troll of a guy
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is sort of my read on him. Yeah, you know, and he said some
5:15
pretty racist, racist type stuff about women and black people.
5:20
And so, you know, not pretending to espouse anything the guy
5:24
says. But what I found really
5:25
interesting this week, he goes on Carlson and you know that it
5:32
sounds like just the what I've reviewed of the guy.
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I mean, there's a lot of objectionable stuff he says, but
5:40
like the place they went over the top.
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He's you know, he's an anti anti Semite.
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You know, they go down this path and he said whack ball, you
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know, oddball stuff about, you know, like didn't think Hitler
5:53
was that bad a guy. Like I read like he's I think,
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you know, hard to judge what anybody what the hell anybody's
6:00
thinking. I get the sense he's like a
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provocateur and he says stuff to get people's blood boiling.
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So that's kind of his shtick. But what I found really
6:10
fascinating, so I didn't watch the interview with Tucker
6:12
Carlson, but I read the transcript, read about half the
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transcript until I was, you know, very bored.
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But as I was reading through it, one of the things I found, So he
6:23
started his whole podcasting and influence and everything.
6:28
He was like 18 years old. He was headed to college, and
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that's when he caught the ire of a lot of the establishment, like
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the first thing he said, the first controversial thing he
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said. I found this fascinating and
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this, According to him. So, you know, maybe there's
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other stuff he said. One of the first controversial
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things he said was Obama was the president at the time.
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And I guess Obama had endorsed. I forget the characterization of
6:58
it, but some had not objected to Aun Security Council resolution
7:03
against Israel for settlements in the West Bank.
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And he's on this podcast and he's like, well, that seems
7:10
reasonable that, you know, they they would have, they would be
7:14
OK with the UN saying they shouldn't settle the West Bank
7:18
and uproot people and all this. Well, that, you know, like he
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was a nobody. And I guess Ben, I think it was
7:24
Ben Shapiro at the time saw some comet.
7:27
Well, he threw it out there and it's like this guy is a rabid
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anti semite and all this. And it's like, OK, I get that if
7:36
you're espousing Hitler, but. Which he did later.
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I mean, yeah, he. Said he could be wrong.
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I mean he but not but I won't say he he says anything
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legitimate. I will say the of the crap that
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he says, what's interesting to me, what really gets people
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going is this, this anti-Semitism bit like he said
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things about black people. He said things about women that
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I think most people would find objectionable.
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But it's all about the anti-Semitism and it's all
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about, hey, the, you know, they keep reading all these articles,
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you know, the wall is breaking about against anti-Semitism.
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And I, you know, I dug into this pretty deep, probably too deep,
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got in a rabbit hole. But like I saw him on a a thing.
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He did a podcast with a bunch of people on it.
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I don't know who the guy's podcast was African American
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guy's podcast. And but they were talking about
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Hitler and they're talking about the Jews.
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And, and one of the things he he raised is like there is this
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push like the only real bad guy. Like he like, well, who's the
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worst? And he's like, well, Hitler was
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bad, but Stalin was bad. And, you know, he said all these
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other people are bad, but I think he has a point to a degree
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that, like, your outrage of Hitler has to exceed every other
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murder in history or else you're, you know, a Holocaust
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denier or whatever you are. And he said in the podcast, he's
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like, if I denied the Armenian Holocaust, like, is anybody
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jumping up and down and saying you're an Armenian Holocaust
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denier? You know, that's not, that
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doesn't get the ire of people. And I don't, Yeah, I just want
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to be clear, like, I didn't really don't agree with much of
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what the guy says. I don't have a hell of a lot of
9:29
use for him. But I guess my only point is
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that there's this, there is this huge impetus against anybody
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saying either anything critical of Israel or even suggesting
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that there is any atrocity in world history not as bad as the
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Jewish Holocaust. And I don't know it, it's a,
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it's kind of an intriguing subject.
9:55
Here's your thoughts there. Yeah, I actually actually
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completely agree with you on this.
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I think it's very interesting. And again, I mean, I, I
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appreciate your disclaimer, but I don't think, you know, we
10:09
don't, let's agree that we need not at the end of every sentence
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instead of a period, say, and we think Hitler was horrible and
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the Holocaust was a bad thing. Like we're going to stipulate
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that. And, and, and I don't, I don't
10:23
mean to make light of that, but really like that's part of the
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issue is that you it, it is interesting to me that Stalin
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killed as many people, probably more, you know, And so why is it
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different? Well, it admittedly genocide and
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hate crimes they are. This might be a whole nother
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topic. Does it matter why you killed
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somebody if you killed somebody? But I mean, I understand and I
10:53
think that America has had a historic relationship with
10:57
Israel. There's a huge Jewish population
11:00
in this country. We have, we have friends who are
11:03
Jewish and, and it feels more personal than a bunch of Soviet
11:09
citizens and, and, and not to make equivalency, but it, it
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feels more immediate. But I will say it's interesting
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that you would mention the Armenian genocide because I have
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a friend who was a childhood friend who was Armenian.
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And you talk about a horrible, horrible thing that happened at
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the hands of the Turks that in terms of percentages, which I
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mean, yeah, I ain't even saying this stuff.
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It's but right. Like in terms of the impact on
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the diaspora of Armenian people that it was an extraordinary
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thing. And now, well, you know, you
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can't really get a consensus in the UN to even agree that it was
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genocide. Like that's insane.
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And so I agree with you. I think it's really interesting
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the role that you know it. It's kind of a well known thing
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on the Internet. Like, you know, arguments
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devolve naturally to the point where someone gets compared to
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Hitler, like that's a meme of how it works and with good
12:16
reason, because he was arguably, you know, the the figurehead of
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all of the worst that humanity represents.
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But he's not alone. And I do think the other side
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that. So I agree with you there.
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I also want to point out about anti-Semitism.
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I think that's one of those terms that is used to cover a
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breadth of attitudes and behaviors that can get really
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problematic. Yeah.
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Agreeing to exterminate a race of people because of who they
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are is it's indefensible. It's it's not, it's not human.
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I mean, it's, it's just, but so, so if that's what we mean by
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anti-Semitism, then mic drop, I'm done, right?
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There's nothing. But we're in a situation right
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now and I and I, because I agree with you, I got to find a way to
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argue with you a little bit. I will point out the way that
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the Trump administration has talked about anti-Semitism on
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campuses is one of those things where, look, there's people,
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there's students who said things that I don't agree with.
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But to say that the way that the Israelis conducted the war in
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Gaza was wrong, even if you don't agree with me, that's not
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it's not anti-Semitic to make a factual statement like that.
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And it's been conflated that way.
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And I think that really cheapens the the word in a way.
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I guess what I'm seeing here with this Fuentes nonsense is it
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is exposing A wound to a degree of like, hey, and then they've
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even said like, we got to keep your finger in the hole in the
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damn, like the dams got to be there.
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Like this is anti-Semitic. We're not going to we're not
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going to tolerate any criticism. And it's like, how
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intellectually honest is that? I mean, so you're not like
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there's nothing they could do that would like stand in the way
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of you supporting them. I mean, that's not healthy.
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Well, right. And is that even, you know, I,
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I, I've got a man. All these words are so loaded.
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I got to be I, I, I just want to be judicious.
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I have a soft spot in my heart for the Palestinian people.
14:33
That is not to say that I have a soft spot in my heart for the
14:36
PLO nor for what happened, right?
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But like, I think that the Palestinian people have had a
14:43
rough go of it and they've certainly made their mistakes
14:47
along the way too. But you look at what the nation
14:52
of Israel is able to do with virtually carte Blanc, they
14:57
don't really worry about the international community
15:02
sanctioning them. Because if the UN decides to
15:05
say, you know, stop settling in the West Bank, like you're
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anti-Semitic for saying that like it it.
15:12
Well, like I, you know, I have friends in Israel and I and I
15:15
and I do think, you know, they have a record of being probably
15:20
more concerned about civilian casualties than the other side
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is. I mean that, you know, they're
15:26
probably true. You know, obviously Gaza has
15:28
been a disaster. But you know, it's funny.
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I was, I was watching a in my rabbit hole slash deep research
15:38
of this. I saw an interview with Richard
15:40
Nixon by Ted Koppel. You know, it's probably a couple
15:44
years before he died. And Ted Koppel's like why the
15:47
support for Israel and Nixon was like, well, it's not strategic.
15:53
He's like, there's very little strategic value in Israel from a
15:57
land location standpoint. He's like, it's really down to
16:01
two things. One, it's a democracy in a
16:05
region that doesn't support democracy.
16:07
And two, it's the moral indebtedness to what happened in
16:11
the Holocaust to a degree. You know, there's something
16:13
along those lines and that I like that argument seems to be a
16:19
logical one. But some of the arguments, you
16:23
know, like and that, you know, and I'm a Christian and I
16:26
obviously believe Jesus walked the earth in Jerusalem, but like
16:31
that whole, like there's all kinds of funky end times
16:36
predictions when it comes to, well, you know, you know, we got
16:39
to get the Temple Mount to what you've said it before.
16:42
Like, you know, depending on your escalological viewpoint,
16:47
you know, there could be like multiple different scenarios
16:51
that all have to happen in order for Jesus to come back.
16:56
And like, I don't, I guess I, I don't believe in a God that's
16:59
limited by what happens geographically in Israel.
17:02
But you know. Yeah, well, I mean, I, I
17:05
completely agree with that. And I, I, I do think it's, it's,
17:11
that's actually you talk about your rabbit hole.
17:14
That's actually pretty interesting story that you know,
17:17
prior to the prior to the creation of the modern state of
17:21
Israel. I mean 100% the leadership on
17:26
that was was prominent American Jews.
17:29
There were Europeans that were helpful in it too.
17:33
Obviously you don't mean to take away from that, but you know, a
17:36
lot of the money came from prominent American Jews and but
17:41
it was primarily an initiative by Jewish people to re establish
17:47
a Jewish homeland. And it was given there'd been a
17:50
movement back, you know, 50 years before that the 19 teens
17:56
there was, you know, there were discussion of this.
17:58
But now after the Holocaust, you, you see this on display.
18:03
And I think Nixon described it really well, kind of how the
18:07
world felt about it. Like, wow, you know, it is the
18:12
right time to because this is going to keep happening because
18:15
if they get rid of all the Jewish people in Poland, well,
18:19
next it's going to be and next it's going to be.
18:22
And so creating a permanent homeland.
18:25
But almost immediately after the creation of the state of Israel,
18:32
the more conservative parts of the of Christianity, it was like
18:38
a lightning bolt and people who had believed in a going out on a
18:44
limb here a little bit. But, you know, in the 20s you
18:48
would find people who would talk about end times and Jesus coming
18:52
back. But you did not see literature
18:58
at that time of people being like, well, you know, the army's
19:02
from the north, that's the Syrians and the armies from the
19:04
South, that's the Egyptians coming across the side, you know
19:08
what I mean? Because nobody thought like that
19:11
didn't really have much traction.
19:13
You know, you didn't have people like mapping out battle plans
19:18
for it's based on Old Testament references, but all of a sudden,
19:24
like a light bulb goes off when you have the creation of the
19:27
state of Israel and people are immediately connecting the dots.
19:31
I I don't mean to suggest that nobody thought that there
19:34
wouldn't be a literal Armageddon in Palestine before the creation
19:39
of Israel, but it was not nearly as popular as it was.
19:44
And all of a sudden, like, wow, wow, now, now, like this really
19:51
could be real. And so then there was a real
19:53
wave of people going backwards into revelation, into other
19:59
prophetic books of the Old Testament and trying to, you
20:02
know, again, you got people that have got the.
20:06
National Geographic map in the one hand, in the Bible in the
20:09
other. Here's where the arrows are, You
20:12
know, they're like pushing the troops around on the map with
20:15
the stick, like in a military plan.
20:18
And. And in some ways, I would say
20:23
that the creation of the state of Israel changed conservative
20:27
Christianity more than Christianity had anything to do
20:31
with the creation of the state of Israel.
20:33
Yeah, it became plausible now to say to people, so you had that
20:40
six day war. Well, let me tell you, let me
20:41
show you chapter and book where that showed up here and that
20:46
created this bond of conservative Christianity to, I
20:53
would say an appreciation and idealized view of Israel.
20:58
You know, Israel is this is what's really interesting to me.
21:01
Israel itself today is a very secular state.
21:07
In fact, if you look at most of like the problem that Netanyahu
21:11
and recent governments have, it's trying to manage the
21:15
Orthodox citizenry, you know, in general you would find Israel to
21:22
be a more secular state than the United States.
21:26
And yet it is idealized among evangelicals to a degree because
21:32
of this kind of playing out. What happens there?
21:36
Well, and there's few people that can really articulate the
21:40
why, you know, like, I don't know if you saw that clip of
21:43
Tucker Carlson interviewing Ted Cruz and he's like, well, why do
21:46
you support Israel? And he's like, well, you know,
21:47
it's my faith. And he's like, we'll explain
21:49
that. And it's like the yeah, there's
21:52
no explanation. Like he doesn't know how to
21:54
articulate it, you know, and I think a lot of the people that
21:58
promote that can't do it either. Not I don't know, I I mean, I
22:01
guess I'm mixed on that. Like I said, I, I guess I, I
22:05
would identify more with what Nixon said about kind of the two
22:09
pieces he was talking about and more of anything is the
22:12
democracy piece like having a stable democracy in a region
22:16
full of autocratic thugs. I see great benefit there.
22:21
But I think I think the part that's dangerous is this view
22:27
that, you know, as humans, well, because we're given more money
22:32
to Israel, it's going to help God come back easier.
22:37
Like, I don't think he needs you for that.
22:39
You know, that reminds me of that.
22:43
You remember, we read that book Under the Banner of Heaven about
22:47
the fundamentalist LDS Church. And, and there's this supposedly
22:52
there's this mountain in Utah, and they had this thing called
22:55
the Dream Mine. And these people are digging in
22:58
this mine looking for gold. And I guess the story goes that,
23:02
well, the faster they dig, the faster they get to the gold.
23:05
And as soon as they hit the gold, that's when Jesus is going
23:07
to come back. So it's like people are digging
23:11
fearlessly to find the gold so that then I'm like, well, what
23:14
is the gold going to do for you when he comes back?
23:16
But OK, whatever. You got to wonder about people's
23:19
conception of God. If, you know, if I have a bad
23:22
day at the mind, it's going to thwart the turtle.
23:28
Otherwise, you know, if the if a Knesset election goes wrong,
23:32
like, well, there goes the the best laid.
23:36
Plan. Creator of the universe.
23:38
Yeah, he can't do it because we didn't.
23:41
There's not enough Patriot missile batteries.
23:44
You know, I don't know. Waiting on you man.
23:47
Yeah, and I, I don't know, I think some of this is
23:50
highlighted that I get, like I said, I think if you were going
23:53
to attack Nick Fuentes about his arguments, there's probably a
23:57
lot of meat there to attack him on and not just down the
24:01
anti-Semitic trail, but that is where it all goes.
24:04
Like it's like the, it's like the vortex and it sucks
24:08
everything in. If you get tarred with that
24:12
brush of anti-Semitism, it's instantly disqualifying.
24:16
And again, if by anti-Semitism you mean somebody thinks there
24:21
really was no Holocaust, yeah, I think that's disqualifying.
24:25
If somebody says, yeah, I don't think they should make, I don't
24:28
think they should be aggressively settling in the
24:30
West Bank. That is not the same thing.
24:34
Yeah, and I think he said both. I mean, he said a lot of
24:36
objectionable stuff and I think that's to a degree anybody right
24:42
or left, if they say extreme stuff, you're going to take
24:47
whatever extreme that you think is going to get the worst
24:52
reaction and that's all you're going to talk about.
24:54
You know, it's going to be what they said this and they know
24:57
it's like nobody ever. And I'm not saying you got to
25:01
dig into the context of all these people, but I don't know,
25:05
you know, somebody was saying too about the right is always
25:08
talking about identity politics and how bad they hate identity
25:11
politics. Yet there's kind of a Jewish
25:14
identity politic. Like, you know, well, if you're
25:17
anti Jew, you know, it's like it comes down to this.
25:20
Well, you're either for the Jews or against the Jews.
25:21
And they're like, where's that? Right.
25:25
I think it's interesting. I'm not trying to shift this,
25:27
but I I do want to point out, I think it's so today is also
25:33
Election Day in a lot of places and looks pretty highly likely
25:39
like Mamdani is going to win the New York City mayoral election.
25:44
And that's a really interesting 1 of people losing their damn
25:49
minds. I don't know if you saw that the
25:52
some Republicans in Congress were trying to come up with a
25:57
method to deport Mamdani before he could be sworn in if he
26:03
happens to win. And it does expose, you know,
26:08
you a guy like that, an avowed socialist, which is not the same
26:13
thing as a communist, they'll just point out.
26:15
But that's a long way off from what some conservative Democrats
26:20
are. And it's been observed that
26:23
that's going to stretch the Democrat coalition pretty hard.
26:27
And I think that's true. I guess what I would say, what I
26:31
think I'm seeing with Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes change
26:35
my mind on this, the the personality of Donald Trump and
26:41
his ability to connect with the populace has been an attractive
26:45
enough thing that I think it's pretty well known that lots of
26:50
Republicans in Washington hate the guy, But they see the power
26:55
that he wields. And so they all kind of get in
26:58
line. But what happens when Donald
27:01
Trump is a lame duck president and they're starting to line up
27:05
for their own things? JD Vance's once it's so bad he
27:08
can taste it. And are you going to see the
27:12
same kind of fracturing within Republicans without a Trump to
27:16
keep all of this broad coalition underneath the tent?
27:21
It could go really crazy, I think.
27:23
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch what
27:26
happens, you know, by in in 32 when he can no longer run.
27:33
I'm kidding, trying to get you fired up.
27:39
No, I mean, yeah, you you bring up a good point.
27:44
There's a lot of people that are anti Trump that got on the
27:48
bandwagon just because, well, he's charismatic enough to win,
27:52
you know, and honestly, that's a lot of well, it's funny.
27:56
That was in that Fuentes interview with Tucker Carlson.
28:00
He didn't like Trump at first because he was a Ron Paul guy
28:03
initially when he was a young guy.
28:04
And then he's like, well, but Trump can win.
28:06
So maybe I'll jump on the bandwagon.
28:09
He didn't say that, but that's essentially what he was talking
28:11
about. And I think I think there's a
28:14
degree of that with mom Donnie. I don't know that everybody, I
28:18
mean, he said some pretty wild stuff.
28:20
I don't know that everybody agrees with that.
28:22
But, you know, they probably see him as a more viable candidate
28:26
than Andrew Cuomo. Yeah, Cuomo's interesting.
28:29
I mean, a really, really smart guy and a good politician, but
28:35
you know, he made his own bed, you know, and.
28:39
I mean, I think, you know, Trump endorsed him at the last minute.
28:43
And I'm like, I don't think that helped him.
28:45
I mean, if Trump really wanted to upend this thing, he should
28:47
have endorsed Mom Donnie, you know, Then they would have not
28:50
voted for him just to be pissed at him.
28:53
Or Curtis Sliwa, who's been a kind of a pain in the ass to the
28:59
world for 40 years. We lived on the East Coast.
29:02
You know, he had a radio show. And I mean, he is just, he is
29:07
just like a talk radio host Try like he if anybody could have
29:13
done something, he could have gotten out of the way.
29:15
He could have gotten behind Andrew Cuomo and said we're
29:17
going to run as a we're going to run this guy as a the candidate
29:22
of normalcy versus crazy land. Yeah.
29:26
Well. And I mean, is this the like the
29:30
first, I mean, from a someone from the right saying this, is
29:35
this the First off the rails leader they've they've elected
29:40
in New York City as mayor? I mean, I, I don't know that
29:42
he's got a monopoly on that, on that bunch.
29:45
I mean, you know. No, I mean, it's interesting
29:48
because I don't know if I would call myself a conservative
29:51
Democrat. I don't know if I quite qualify
29:53
for that. Certainly a, a moderate and
29:58
yeah, he's way out there for my taste, don't get me wrong.
30:01
But I, I don't know, I'm, I'm talking in circles here, but
30:05
humor me on this. Trump is like a force of nature.
30:08
He's going to do what he's going to do, right?
30:10
He's not really he's not moved or changed by what other people
30:14
think or do. But I find really interesting is
30:19
some some of the loudest mouth Republicans in Congress act
30:24
like, all right, we got Trump for a little while longer.
30:27
Let's really make a big power grab.
30:30
Let's really do stuff. And I OK, if that's your belief,
30:33
that's fine. When have you saw the news
30:36
lately? The most recent poll approval
30:39
for Donald Trump nationwide is 37%.
30:43
And even if you can continue to hold the House and the Senate
30:47
and the presidency and the Supreme Court, largely by virtue
30:52
of an Electoral College and a Senate system that gives and,
30:58
and, you know, fake elector elector maps, but you've got a
31:03
system that 100% biases towards and favors conservative states.
31:10
Is there no point at which you would say, well, the good news
31:14
is we've got the gavel. The bad news is 37% of the
31:17
country is with us. Now is the time to really make
31:20
our mark. Let's really drive our agenda
31:24
home. I don't know.
31:25
Would you not think about moving in a direction that was more
31:28
inclusive of the country? Well, I mean, you spend all this
31:33
time to get your people in power to, to enact your priorities and
31:38
then you're going to give up once you get there.
31:40
I mean, that seems kind of kind of productive.
31:42
Yes, if we're just talking about well, you know, people don't
31:46
love it. I don't know how many people
31:49
protested at the no King's day. Like do you have 0 worry like is
31:55
is do you think it's a a limitless thing?
31:58
Can you just ignore what 63% of the country wants?
32:04
Can you run enough National Guard?
32:06
I'm not addressing you like you're proposing this, but like,
32:11
is that a recipe? Is that a winning strategy for
32:14
the long haul? That seems like a really short
32:16
sighted game to. Well, I guess I, I don't know
32:19
that he's got 37% approval rating because of the things
32:24
that he's gotten done that much of the Republicans appreciate.
32:27
I think he's probably got a 37% approval rating because he's an
32:31
incendiary figure and he's also a lame duck president, which
32:35
typically is not a high approval rating to begin with.
32:38
I mean, you know, by the time somebody finishes 2 terms in
32:40
office, I mean, nobody's going out on a 65% approval rating.
32:45
I mean, they're all underwater by the time they leave.
32:48
And a lot of that's because they're getting things done and
32:51
people are ready to move on and, you know, they're disillusioned
32:53
people. What what have you?
32:56
I don't know. What if he's doing that?
32:58
I'd say I, you know, from a policy agenda standpoint, I'm
33:02
not sure what I would say you to do differently at this point.
33:05
I mean, there's, I mean, we've talked about some of the things
33:07
I don't like. And I think some of the reason
33:09
he's lost some of that honestly isn't because he's not trying to
33:17
be more liberal and less conservative.
33:19
I think it's because he failed on some of the key deliverables
33:22
that he promised. I think, you know, he didn't, he
33:24
didn't win because the Electoral College.
33:26
I mean, he did, but he won on popular vote and there's a lot
33:30
of people that wanted to see the the budget balanced, a lot of
33:33
people that want to see the doge cuts and the, the Epstein files
33:38
released. I said it, we've said it again,
33:41
the Epstein files again, you know, those are real things.
33:44
I think, I think a lot of his approval rating hits are because
33:47
of those things. So I I would almost argue that
33:50
it's he didn't do enough and that's why he doesn't have the
33:53
approval rating. Yeah, I think that's a
33:56
fairpoint. You know, to your point, some of
33:59
the terrible rating is just because of his personality,
34:04
maybe more than policy. I just look at it and like.
34:08
I I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I bet you there's 10% in
34:12
there on Epstein. There's a lot of people he's
34:15
alienated with that, I think. You, you have a different circle
34:19
of friends than I do it. Do you think that that's, I
34:22
mean, the people that you talked to who were supporters are, are
34:26
they dismayed in the same way that you you've been pretty
34:29
vocal about it? I mean, I've seen a lot of folks
34:32
of that way and it just sounds like a lot of double talk that's
34:37
really concerned. I mean that's the been the
34:39
biggest concerning thing to me. I, you know, the budget I'm not
34:43
happy about, but I'm not, I haven't given up hope that that
34:47
could get reconciled, but I don't know, just that I, I'm not
34:52
going to forget that whole gaslighting crap about what
34:56
Epstein, he's still a thing. Like, dude, come on, you know,
35:00
and I and I'm, I'm probably not one of the 63%, but I'm sure
35:04
there's a lot of people that are that are in that boat.
35:08
So I'm going to take the like, this is like, it's like two
35:13
drinkers and there's a bottle between.
35:14
I like, I can't not grab this. I did see a really interesting
35:20
idea on Epstein this week. Because, you know, I mean,
35:25
nobody knows anything. But it has never seemed to me
35:30
like Trump was likely to have to have been a client.
35:35
He clearly knew the guy. I think he clearly knew what the
35:37
guy was up to. I think that's tawdry all its
35:40
own. But even in the absence of a
35:43
specific allegation, although there are rumors of some, but
35:46
even leaving that aside, what is in it?
35:49
Why would Trump if if you're in it, you know you're in it, You
35:53
can't cover that up. But I heard somebody say
35:56
something that I thought was really interesting and that's
35:59
that apparently not a lot of reporting happened.
36:03
But when the case in Florida happened that Alex Acosta plea
36:08
bargained him out for little or nothing, Well, they said that
36:14
the headline was this guy, this he's got these young women.
36:18
It's this horrible thing. And but a huge part of the
36:22
original indictment was about money laundering and financial
36:27
transactions that in addition, you know, I mean, obviously this
36:31
guy did not earn the money doing some currency trading.
36:35
Is he told that one guy, you know, And so you think, well, is
36:40
it blackmail? Yeah.
36:42
But how you get like 9 figure money out of blackmail deals is
36:47
going to involve a lot of shady financial dealing.
36:51
And there was a hypothesis that maybe, you know, Trump is
36:57
literally saying what? I'm innocent.
37:01
I never touched any of those girls.
37:04
I, I don't, you know, he's like, I'm innocent, like I've got
37:07
nothing to do with this. But what he is worried about,
37:10
you know, he says, well, we've got to protect innocent people.
37:13
And I'm like, well, who the hell are the innocent people when
37:16
you're But what it might be is that the innocent people, you
37:21
know, some of the people are caught in the, in the sex
37:25
scandal web. Some of the people may have had
37:30
their hands in various money laundering cookie jars, strange
37:34
sources of money. We would probably not agree with
37:37
this, but I have long thought that Trump's coziness with Putin
37:44
may represent unpublicized, very lucrative deals that he may have
37:48
made. You know, not necessarily
37:51
bribery per SE, but you know, Trump as an expensive lifestyle
37:55
needs money. You know, anyway, I guess I'm
37:58
just saying is it might be that the, you know, the headline
38:03
story is the the underage girls and the sex scandal.
38:08
But the a real story that's not being reported on might be about
38:13
financial transactions, financial crimes, money
38:15
laundering, and a lot of. Other how that crossed both
38:18
parties because they're both gone.
38:20
And that I could almost see, you know, there's a lot of people
38:25
that fall victim to temptation, man.
38:28
I say that it sounds like I'm excusing what I'm saying is you
38:32
run a deal like Epstein was running, you're going to catch
38:34
some people. And there's going to be some
38:35
people that are going to take the bait and are going to,
38:38
you're going to be able to blackmail them, but not
38:40
everybody. The.
38:42
Former The former royal known as known as Prince, now Andrew
38:47
Windsor of Scotland a. Little bit I just picture him,
38:51
try to balance his checkbook, what he's writing out, that rent
38:54
for his little apartment somewhere.
38:57
It's sort of beautifully poetic. You know, this is a man who's
39:01
got to shine his own shoes for the first time in 65.
39:04
Years exactly. I did see AI don't mean to
39:08
segue, but I did see a an interview this week with I think
39:13
it was the person writing the Jeffrey book because I actually
39:18
worked with a writer and she said that.
39:21
No, she said. Jeffrey really liked Trump, like
39:25
she worked for and his staff at Mira.
39:27
Lago had a good relationship and had met him a couple of times
39:32
and and apparently in later life when he was elected, she was
39:37
really excited that he was going to release the files, which
39:40
makes all the more crappy that they didn't release the files,
39:44
but well. You know, I I'm willing to
39:47
believe that if if that's the case.
39:49
But then. But then it makes the mystery
39:52
even all the weirder. Right.
39:54
What are you worried about? Right, like if you exactly, I
39:58
mean if your hands not dirty in that it seems like.
40:03
You. You could be the hero of the
40:05
world, right? And what what does Trump need?
40:08
He doesn't need these friends, you know?
40:12
Yeah, I'm like, throw everybody under the bus.
40:14
I don't care whose names on that thing, right?
40:17
But that's what's mysterious to me about Trump.
40:19
I don't think he'd know what to do with himself if he was loved.
40:23
I really believe that at the inauguration in 2017, if he did
40:27
come out there and said, hey, look, you know, I said some
40:30
hateful things about my predecessor.
40:33
That's all politics. Let's get past it.
40:35
We're all Americans. We need to like.
40:37
I think he might have had the ability to really.
40:40
He's not going to get the far left, but you could have gotten
40:43
more people rallied around him. I think that the happiest person
40:48
in the world when that 37% number came out with him because
40:52
that's how he wants it. That's what he likes.
40:54
He thrives on that. Yeah, all publicity is good
40:57
publicity, right? Yeah.
41:00
I don't get it. So where were we?
41:01
We went down Epstein. We went down this Epstein rabbit
41:04
hole again. Now we got both parties have.
41:09
You know, you've got people all the way from Liz Cheney to Nick
41:13
Fuentes in the Republican Party. I guess Liz is no longer
41:17
Republican, but you've got paleo Republicans.
41:21
You got Bill Kristol on the one hand, and you got Nick Fuentes
41:25
on the other hand. You got a big tent to try to
41:27
manage in the Republican Party. But by the same token, you've
41:31
got Mandani on the Democrats and you've got, I don't know, Joe
41:35
Manchin, right? Like there's there's.
41:37
Still really wide. No, but you know what I mean.
41:40
Like, right. Like Joe Manchin and Liz Cheney
41:45
are. And honestly, I could vote for
41:48
either of them. I'd be good with Joe Manchin.
41:55
Well, what did you hate about Liz Cheney?
41:56
Honestly. I thought that whole January 6th
42:00
Select Committee was a charade and she was the big leader of
42:05
that. I thought that was a lot of
42:07
theater. So do you, I guess we haven't
42:10
really gone down this path very much.
42:12
Do you? Do you not think January 6th was
42:16
a bad thing? No, I do, but I I think that was
42:20
a sham event. I mean, they did not.
42:24
I mean, number one, they excluded, you know, everybody
42:29
except for Trump haters on the on the thing.
42:32
They didn't want to have any the panel.
42:35
The There's no debate, you know what I mean?
42:37
It wasn't like, hey, this is like, hey, we're going to debate
42:39
this and dig into it. It was just like a show trial,
42:42
essentially. Yeah, that's what I did.
42:44
Yeah. I think it would have been great
42:45
if they'd had a bipartisan committee and really dug into
42:48
the details and pulled out the good, the bad, the ugly great.
42:52
But that's not what you got. It was just a partisan show.
42:55
But she was getting. Her she was getting her 15
42:58
seconds of fame. Yeah, I mean, but could you have
43:02
had a genuine debate when you've got people that are like, I
43:05
don't know, there were people, there were Congress people and
43:09
senators that, you know, their offices were under siege.
43:13
They were people that were sneaking out of the building and
43:17
downstairs. And then a couple of months
43:20
later they were Meanwhile Trump's like, yeah, well, Kevin,
43:24
you should have thought of that, right.
43:26
And then a month or two later, they're like, Oh well, you know,
43:29
it's just politics. I don't know, man.
43:31
I. There's a lot of weird stuff
43:34
about that day, too, because then you've got these.
43:37
I mean, I've seen the surveillance videos of the cops
43:39
and they're like marshalling people in.
43:42
You know, there's like, yeah, come right this way.
43:44
You know, you get some people breaking in, you got other
43:46
people they're marshalling in. You've had, you know, recently
43:50
some of the reports came out about how many undercover FBI
43:52
agents were in the crowd. And I just think there's a lot
43:55
to it. I don't, I don't espouse that it
43:57
was a great day. I thought it was a horrible day.
44:00
But there's, it's like anything else, there's a lot more to the
44:03
story. And that was just a, you know, a
44:08
political theater. And honestly, I don't, I don't
44:12
think it could have been done any different because, you know,
44:15
most of these hearings are complete bullshit.
44:18
I mean, there is nothing legitimate about any of these
44:21
hearings. I mean, they haul somebody in,
44:24
you know, either one side or the other has a beef with somebody.
44:27
And then, you know, they ask these questions, but none of the
44:31
questions are meant to be answered.
44:32
You know, like they just blather on and make all these
44:36
accusations and they're like, can I answer?
44:37
No, no, no, you can split. Time's up.
44:39
You know, like, OK, this is just stupid.
44:41
And I think that's why, I mean, not necessarily the January 6th
44:45
thing, but that show nonsense is why I don't think it may have
44:49
any confidence in Congress. I mean, it's just a big a bunch
44:53
of goofballs. I don't know, It's just not
44:56
very. It's bad.
44:59
I would say, though, as little regard as I hold for Speaker
45:03
Johnson, I would not like crap in his office.
45:07
Just saying that you know I I hold to.
45:11
If you were not her, you could say, well, at least nobody
45:14
crapped in my office. You know, it reminds me when I
45:18
was in the military, I, this is kind of gross, but this guy that
45:23
a buddy of mine that ran another group of troops and you know, we
45:28
were in like supply and like he had like office people.
45:31
And I guess somebody was so disgruntled in the in his
45:34
organization that they, they took a dump on the floor of the
45:38
bathroom. And, you know, I don't know what
45:40
that means if that's some type of protest.
45:43
And, you know, he when it happened, he's like, dude, you
45:46
can't tell the commander I'm going to be in so much trouble.
45:48
Like, he got so angry about it. Like he was worried about how he
45:52
was going to look as a leader because somebody crapped on the
45:54
floor in his office building. And so like, he was trying to
45:57
cover it up and like, hey, I won't say anything.
45:59
And then, you know, he was kind of a jerk.
46:01
And I don't know, maybe six months later, he forgot all
46:05
about our little deal and we're in like a meeting with our
46:08
commander and he starts throwing me under the bus about something
46:11
and something stupid. And he just starts backing the
46:13
bus over. And I said, well, you know, I
46:15
mean, at least I've never had anybody shit on the floor of the
46:18
bathroom at our office. You know, it's like, that was
46:22
great. God turned Pete red.
46:24
And he's like, what is this all about?
46:26
I'm like, careful what you wish for, pal.
46:31
You know, interestingly, the fact that his first impulse was
46:35
how does this affect me? Probably explains the road
46:41
defecation more than anything. Totally.
46:45
Yeah, exactly. It says a lot about your
46:48
leadership style. It's all about me.
46:53
Yeah, totally. But yeah.
46:56
Who who was I listening to? I can't remember.
47:00
It was a it was a comedian or something.
47:02
I got to look it up. But this, this guy was saying
47:07
they should make a constitutional amendment that if
47:10
you were a senator you couldn't run for and I can't find it.
47:15
I mean. Is it a, is it a threat?
47:17
We've had, what, 1 Senator? Oh, is George Wilson?
47:22
It was George Wilson on Bill Maher.
47:25
And, you know, I think he was like a quip, but he was like,
47:28
'cause he's in honestly, he's right, 'cause he's like, 'cause,
47:32
you know, that's the only reason Josh Hawley is a a senator
47:36
because he's running. He's always going to be running
47:38
for president, you know, because he always runs his mouth and
47:40
he's hearings. And that's I mean, that's true.
47:42
I mean that that theater you see a lot of it's because all these
47:46
guys are trying to position themselves for future office and
47:49
get a sound bite and get a YouTube short about how powerful
47:52
they are our. Listeners can't see, but I'm
47:55
giving the fist up that Josh Hawley gave to the rioters on
47:59
January 6th and encourage them. But, you know, that's actually
48:05
really true because that guy has been in like a eight-year
48:11
audition. Yeah, yeah.
48:13
And and if you're not, we're out with them then, you know, good.
48:18
You're going to get stuck with them because hopefully not
48:21
because that guy we're I mean, I even, I agree with everything he
48:24
says. Just like, dude, just shut up.
48:27
You know, But that's the thing. They're like, these guys aren't
48:33
doing anything. They're all just trying out for
48:35
the next job. And I didn't seem that it.
48:37
It seems less so in the in the House of Representatives.
48:40
Yeah, I don't know, Like, I think there's some in the House
48:44
of Representatives that think they've got the big time in
48:47
their future. But you're right about the
48:50
Senate more I do think, and I'm thinking this through.
48:54
Maybe I maybe I don't want to say it because it might not be
48:56
true, but I feel like more typically the Democrat senators
49:01
tend to be older. Like a lot of those people are
49:05
not running for president. A lot of those people are.
49:08
Well, they've been made 50 million, they've got a hundred
49:11
100,000. Dollars a year, so they can't
49:13
afford to move into the White House.
49:17
But I'm very skeptical of young senators, you know, people with
49:21
names like Kennedy and Obama and Hawley and Cruz and yeah.
49:30
Well, Cruz, he's your next nominee to the Supreme Court,
49:33
Ken. A lifetime appointment of having
49:36
to listen to him, at least I would have to see him because
49:39
they don't have any cameras. But you know, NPR does.
49:41
Those audio clips from the Supreme Court arguments.
49:45
Honestly, that. Have you watched that?
49:48
I know you don't watch Tucker Carlson.
49:49
I don't either, but I'll watch his clips or another.
49:51
Did you see that interview with him and Ted Cruz?
49:54
No, you got to see it. I mean, you know, usually, I
49:58
mean, I will give it to Ted. I mean, he's usually pretty good
50:01
at schooling people in arguments.
50:03
But I mean, Tucker just calls him out and it's like he sounds
50:07
like a bumbling idiot on that interview.
50:10
He's like, why do you want regime change in Iran?
50:13
Well, I just do. You know how many people live in
50:16
Iran? I don't know.
50:18
I don't study population tables. You know, he just starts asking
50:21
him basic questions about Iran. He knows nothing about Iran.
50:24
But I want regime change, you know?
50:27
How many people do live in Iran? I'm going to guess 25,000,000.
50:30
I think I looked it up just because I was afraid Kent might
50:33
ask me at some point how many people live in Iran.
50:35
I think it was, yeah, I think it was like 1819 million, something
50:38
like that. I probably wildly, but I'm not
50:40
going to go on a news show and spot.
50:42
We're just having a drink, talking about it, and we came
50:46
with it about 20% of the pop. Iran.
50:50
Oh, we're way off 92,000,000, OK.
50:53
Wow. Yeah, I stand corrected.
50:56
Of course I'm not the I'm not out of the Senate Foreign
50:59
Relations Committee or anything. OK, so Speaking of war
51:04
mongering. So let's not talk about starting
51:08
a war in Nigeria, but Venezuela. I I mean first of all let me say
51:16
this. I am so sick of people trying to
51:20
make a deal out of protecting our country from drugs.
51:25
I am sick to death of it. The easiest way to fit, I don't
51:30
care if it's the Chinese shipping us fentanyl or the
51:34
Venezuelan shipping us cocaine or whatever.
51:39
The best way to fix this is not by blowing up boats.
51:44
It's by asshole Americans quitting using drugs.
51:47
This is a. This is a.
51:49
Main side problem this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Democratic
51:52
Party of 2025. We stand with drug smugglers in
51:56
the Caribbean. No, I stand with with the.
52:00
The problem is a demand side problem is what I'm saying.
52:04
Yeah, don't disagree with that. But at the same time, cutting
52:08
supply is beneficial as well. Yeah, if you indeed do cut
52:14
supply. But if what you do is you make a
52:17
lot of TV out of the thing. And I'm just going to go out on
52:21
a limb that those two speed boats that they splashed
52:25
probably did not represent a significant portion of the drugs
52:30
that were being smuggled in. Well, how big of a problem is
52:35
drug use in Singapore? Probably not very big.
52:38
The landing card. When you land and they give you
52:41
the landing card, you fill out your name and flight number.
52:44
Big letters on the bottom of the card.
52:46
Death to drug smugglers. In case there's any any
52:52
indication what's going to happen, you bring in drugs in
52:54
there. No, I'm not.
52:55
I'm not advocating we become Singapore.
52:58
I know. I was saying, isn't this the
52:59
place that they that they flog people for chewing gum?
53:04
That's right. That's right.
53:05
Or I visited during COVID and it was a $400.00 fine.
53:12
There might have been some type of incarceration and deportation
53:16
if you were caught outside not wearing a mask.
53:19
So and you know, honestly, wearing a mask in a country when
53:26
it's 90° and it's 95% humidity and rains half the day, it's
53:30
basically like getting water boarded throughout the day, you
53:33
know, So that's not not fun. Well.
53:37
We might ought to wrap it here. We've gone a few subjects, but I
53:40
think those are good. We got, we got a little bit of
53:43
disagreement, we got a little agreement and we got Epstein.
53:47
I mean, that's a full, that's a full podcast right there.
53:50
That's the the drive factor right there.
53:56
Hey, thanks for joining us on this episode of Bourbon and Rum
53:59
Podcast. We hope you enjoyed it.
54:01
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