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Fashion to Legacy with Alice Maria James · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom Jackobs: Well, welcome back delightful listeners to another episode of the heart-led Business Show.
• 0:41
  Tom Jackobs: Today we're fortunate to have the fabulous Alice Maria James.
• 0:45
  Tom Jackobs: As the host of Read This Author's Corner and the spirited Executive Director of the Black Authors Hall of Fame, Alice is on a mission to spotlight the splendid tapestry of dysphoric literature.
• 0:57
  Tom Jackobs: With over three decades of creativity in the fashion world, she's now weaving narratives that uplift voices of color and inspire generations.
• 1:06
  Tom Jackobs: So join me as we dive into Alice's heart-led journey in business and her passion for illuminating Brilliance.
• 1:14
  Tom Jackobs: Alice, welcome to the show.
• 1:15
  Alice James: Wow.
• 1:17
  Alice James: Well, Thank you.
• 1:18
  Alice James: I love my introduction.
• 1:20
  Tom Jackobs: No worries.
• 1:21
  Tom Jackobs: I always love to give a little flare to the introduction as well.
• 1:25
  Alice James: That was a beautiful flare.
• 1:27
  Tom Jackobs: Alice, I'm really excited to talk to you today because I think what you're doing is so important and so heartfelt, and I wanna share that with the audience, but also to get your journey as well into the whole heart-led space.
• 1:39
  Tom Jackobs: But before we do that, I always like to ask the first question, which is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?
• 1:46
  Alice James: I think I have two things that come together to make a heart-led for me.
• 1:51
  Alice James: One is it's that thing that you would do whether you're getting paid to do it or not, it's just one of those things that they say, I can't help it.
• 2:01
  Alice James: And then the other thing was, my pastor had said to me many years ago that thing that kind of gets under your skin and you are looking for somebody to fix it.
• 2:12
  Alice James: Like, why can't they fix this?
• 2:15
  Alice James: What's wrong with this?
• 2:16
  Alice James: And you have all of these ideas and all your imagination ghost solving that problem, but you don't see it as your problem to solve.
• 2:25
  Alice James: That is the calling on your spirit to fix that problem.
• 2:29
  Tom Jackobs: Nice.
• 2:30
  Alice James: That's what she told me.
• 2:31
  Alice James: She said, when you're in that spot, that's what you're being called to do.
• 2:36
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 2:37
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Tom Jackobs: I like that.
• 2:37
  Tom Jackobs: That's the first definition of that sort that I've heard.
• 2:40
  Tom Jackobs: And I really like that.
• 2:41
  Tom Jackobs: That's good.
• 2:42
  Tom Jackobs: It's like kind of a more guttural instinct to lead and to help others.
• 2:47
  Tom Jackobs: So tell us a little bit about your business and what makes it heart-led.
• 2:51
  Alice James: It was evolved very organically.
• 2:54
  Alice James: What I do now was not like, okay, this is the next step on my journey.
• 3:00
  Alice James: What actually happened is at 57, my lungs started to act up and my pulmonologist told me, you can no longer work in fashion.
• 3:10
  Alice James: You can't be around these fibers and I'm like, you don't understand.
• 3:15
  Alice James: This is what I do.
• 3:16
  Alice James: This is what I know.
• 3:18
  Alice James: What do I do now?
• 3:20
  Alice James: What is that shift?
• 3:21
  Alice James: So that was a jolt.
• 3:23
  Alice James: That wasn't even like, I'm planning my transition out.
• 3:27
  Alice James: No, this was like, you don't go back, so what I decided to do was to, take up coaching.
• 3:34
  Alice James: I joined a coaching program getting my coaching certification, and a good friend of mine introduced me to a team of people that she worked with that was all into the field of like just unearthing the black history.
• 3:51
  Alice James: Black inventors.
• 3:53
  Alice James: I know the person that started the Black Tennis Hall of Fame and all of these things and I was like, this is right up my wheelhouse.
• 4:02
  Alice James: I love this because truth be told, I came here from Jamaica at age four and I went through all my schooling here.
• 4:13
  Alice James: I didn't learn about black inventors the women in Hidden Figures.
• 4:19
  Alice James: I didn't know that Garrett Morgan had invented the traffic light.
• 4:23
  Alice James: I knew none of this until I was in my 30's.
• 4:26
  Alice James: When you go through your life, you ask me about Greek mythology.
• 4:30
  Alice James: I could talk to you all day about, I could tell you about the Ming Dynasty.
• 4:38
  Alice James: I could tell you about all this other history that happened hundreds of years ago, and I couldn't even tell you something that happened 50, 75 years ago.
• 4:47
  Alice James: So I knew for the last 20 years how that was like, eating at my soul.
• 4:53
  Alice James: It was one of those things that were like under your skin, like how do you get that out there?
• 4:58
  Alice James: Now that it's being unearthed, how do we feed it out there to the world and to meet people that were doing it?
• 5:07
  Alice James: And were welcoming me in and educating me.
• 5:11
  Alice James: I was just like, oh, this is so good.
• 5:13
  Alice James: And one of them Dr.
• 5:15
  Alice James: Caldwell, Dale Caldwell, he was director at Rutgers.
• 5:19
  Alice James: He was like, Alice, you should do a podcast.
• 5:22
  Alice James: You should do a show.
• 5:23
  Alice James: And he was working with a studio and he had airtime, and he literally paid for the airtime for me to go to the show.
• 5:32
  Alice James: All I had to do was get from North Carolina back up to New Jersey where I was from.
• 5:37
  Alice James: And I started doing this show and it was so well received by the authors that had been writing and doing research and had all of this information and no one to talk to about it.
• 5:51
  Alice James: So they pulled me in and they hugged me so tight.
• 5:55
  Alice James: They held me so tight and they thanked me so much and still do please keep doing this work.
• 6:02
  Alice James: We really appreciate it.
• 6:04
  Alice James: We need you.
• 6:05
  Alice James: And there is something absolutely beautiful about people telling you that the work you're doing is needed, and it's important
• 6:14
  Tom Jackobs: because it's so funny in the sense that as entrepreneurs we put all this effort out and what we believe is like greatness out in the world, but it's infrequent that somebody comes back and says, thank you so much for doing that and putting that out there.
• 6:28
  Tom Jackobs: So yeah.
• 6:29
  Tom Jackobs: I totally understand like the joy that comes from hearing that and especially when you put, all your work and your life into it and all the effort that you do
• 6:38
  Alice James: And it was so new to me because I'm a visual creative and I never saw myself as a literary creative.
• 6:46
  Alice James: And I thought it was us and them, and I honestly in the beginning did not really feel like I would be accepted into the literary world.
• 6:56
  Alice James: I didn't feel like I was that scholar.
• 6:59
  Alice James: You have the scholarly literary people and you have the flaky design creative people.
• 7:05
  Alice James: I was never a flaky design creative person, but I understand that people loop everybody into that same pot, right?
• 7:14
  Alice James: That's what I thought was going to happen, but it is absolutely not what was happened.
• 7:20
  Alice James: they were actually happy to, if I could describe it this way, they knew that they were the mouth and they needed us.
• 7:28
  Alice James: So I was what they needed to complete the face.
• 7:32
  Tom Jackobs: Oh yeah.
• 7:33
  Tom Jackobs: And giving them the voice as well.
• 7:34
  Tom Jackobs: That's amazing.
• 7:35
  Tom Jackobs: Especially, in today's day and age where we need to hear different voices and different perspectives to really understand each other and to really lead with heart at the same time.
• 7:48
  Tom Jackobs: I'm just curious, so you're growing up in that time where, you know it's completely whitewashed, right?
• 7:54
  Tom Jackobs: The history and everything is all whitewashed.
• 7:56
  Tom Jackobs: What did it feel like to finally realize all of the black voices and the black inventors and all that were pushed down because of the whitewashing?
• 8:06
  Tom Jackobs: How did that feel to discover that?
• 8:08
  Alice James: It felt unfair in some ways, because as I said StrengthsFinder describes me a learner.
• 8:15
  Alice James: So I am that learner.
• 8:17
  Alice James: So I am that person that if I knew that there was something to dig for, I would've been digging, you don't know what you don't know.
• 8:26
  Alice James: So I didn't know that I was missing all of this stuff.
• 8:32
  Alice James: And then when I start learning it in my 30's, and it was wild how that came about.
• 8:39
  Alice James: Just as a quick story, I was in the fashion industry, but then I had started an interior decorating business and a part of it, I started offering black artwork.
• 8:50
  Alice James: And as the person that started that, it was like a networking kind of thing.
• 8:57
  Alice James: She started it and one of the games that we played at this networking event where you meet these artists was black history of inventors.
• 9:07
  Alice James: That's how I learned it.
• 9:09
  Alice James: Playing a game while was selling art.
• 9:13
  Alice James: It was a game back in the 90's, somebody invented a game.
• 9:17
  Alice James: I learned it from that game and I was like, why didn't I even know this?
• 9:21
  Alice James: There was 12 people that we learned every black history month.
• 9:25
  Alice James: We learned this about the same 12 people, and it was then where I was like, where's all this information?
• 9:34
  Alice James: How do you look for it?
• 9:35
  Alice James: How do you find it?
• 9:37
  Alice James: And this is still before the internet, it's not you going to your local library and give me this information.
• 9:43
  Alice James: It's still not there, so it was really, it's only in the last, I would say, eight years that now I am absolutely flooded with information and I have my social media set up that it channels that information into me.
• 10:02
  Alice James: I don't wanna hear anybody's tea, I don't wanna anybody's drama.
• 10:07
  Alice James: Give me all of that insight that I didn't grow up knowing.
• 10:12
  Alice James: Allow me to pass that back to my nieces and my nephews.
• 10:17
  Alice James: And the other layer of that is if I grew up here, went to school here and didn't learn anything about black history, African American history here.
• 10:27
  Alice James: I have even less information about Jamaican history, so I have a lot of catching up to do.
• 10:38
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 10:38
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh.
• 10:39
  Tom Jackobs: I can't even imagine it.
• 10:41
  Tom Jackobs: I think part of the issue with our country too, in terms of race relations is that, as a white man, I'm like, I don't know what I don't know as well.
• 10:50
  Tom Jackobs: And in learning all this, I'm like, I cannot believe this was left out.
• 10:56
  Tom Jackobs: And yeah, it's great to have Black History month, but if you're repeating the same 12 people that are being celebrated, or it's like there's gotta be more than 12 black people that have done great things in this world.
• 11:06
  Tom Jackobs: I can think of thousands already, it's it's credible.
• 11:09
  Alice James: Yeah.
• 11:09
  Alice James: And the saving grace was when I grew up there was Ebony Magazine.
• 11:14
  Alice James: And Ebony did give you a lot with the current event.
• 11:18
  Alice James: So you knew when oh, what's his name?
• 11:22
  Alice James: Andrew Young, and Barbara Jordan when they were elected.
• 11:27
  Alice James: So you knew what was going on in the here and now.
• 11:30
  Alice James: They didn't cover what happened in the past and I understand part of the covering up, but the covering up of the quote unquote bad also covers up the good as well.
• 11:45
  Alice James: And for me, what is a little bit disheartening right now is that we finally got to the place where all this information has finally been excavated and it's there and I feel like the bulldozers are now calm and trying to push it back down, which is, it has really set a fire under me that there's no time to waste in having it out there.
• 12:12
  Alice James: It's easy to hide something that only a few people know about, right?
• 12:17
  Alice James: But if you make sure that as many people as possible know about it, it's really hard to hide that.
• 12:25
  Tom Jackobs: Exactly, and especially now with the internet and everything, the connected world that we have, it's, a lot easier to get that information.
• 12:32
  Tom Jackobs: But it's also a double-edged sword because we're only fed the information that we want to see as well.
• 12:39
  Tom Jackobs: I'd love to dive into the black author's Hall of Fame and how that came about and what you're doing with that.
• 12:46
  Alice James: That came about Dr.
• 12:48
  Alice James: Dale Caldwell.
• 12:50
  Alice James: He's the person that started the Black Tennis Hall of Fame and at the time he started that he was the president of tennis association that controls the US Open, I don't really know all of their names.
• 13:03
  Alice James: So he was the president of that and he had done a exhibit called, breaking barriers, and it was so well received at the US open that he decided to start the Black Tennis Hall of Fame.
• 13:19
  Alice James: And then he worked with another person that's he's a professor that teaches patent information.
• 13:25
  Alice James: Now, I won't say patent law, but understanding how patent's working.
• 13:30
  Alice James: And he is the executive director of the Black Inventors Hall.
• 13:36
  Alice James: And so when I started this.
• 13:38
  Alice James: The show of talking to authors.
• 13:42
  Alice James: I started getting connected with these people, these authors and Dale, he goes, Alice you should start the black authors Hall of Fame, we need awards.
• 13:56
  Alice James: People forget about it.
• 13:57
  Alice James: Halls of fame.
• 13:59
  Alice James: You get to solidify their history in one place.
• 14:04
  Alice James: you should start that.
• 14:05
  Alice James: I'm just scratching the surface of trying to get this, talking to authors and now you want me to do this.
• 14:12
  Alice James: But I follow my intuition.
• 14:15
  Alice James: I am open for what the universe has for me to do, and it was, although I didn't see it as with authors, I did see it around learning history and understanding.
• 14:27
  Alice James: So if this is how I do that, then I have to walk through the door that is open for me.
• 14:33
  Alice James: So I was introduced to Max Rodriguez, who is the founder of the Harlem Book Fair.
• 14:41
  Alice James: Which the Harlem book Fair is over 25.
• 14:43
  Alice James: I think it's 27 years old now, and is the largest African American books fair in the country.
• 14:51
  Alice James: At the height of it, everybody was at the Harlem Book Fair.
• 14:55
  Alice James: Maya Angelou, everybody, the largest one, I think they said had 30,000 people in attendance.
• 15:02
  Alice James: So I got to meet Max and work with the Harlem Book Fair, and he introduced me to Rita Dove, Poet Laureate and he started introducing me to these notable authors.
• 15:17
  Alice James: They are famous in their own right, but there is a select group of people that know of them and know what they do.
• 15:25
  Alice James: And I was able to do the first induction ceremony and induct like six people into the Black Authors Hall of Fame for the work that they've done over the past 40, 50 years.
• 15:41
  Tom Jackobs: Wow.
• 15:42
  Tom Jackobs: So how long have you had the Hall of Fame?
• 15:44
  Alice James: About four years.
• 15:45
  Tom Jackobs: How many are inducted into it?
• 15:46
  Alice James: Right now we're still at that six.
• 15:49
  Alice James: Things are constantly restructuring, right?
• 15:52
  Alice James: So when I started the Black Authors Hall of Fame, Dr.
• 15:57
  Alice James: Caldwell was at Rutgers and then he moved to Centenary University.
• 16:03
  Alice James: We decided to make Centenary University the physical home of the Hall of Fame.
• 16:09
  Alice James: There's a lounge at Centenary that's dedicated to his mother and father who were a part of the Civil Rights Movement and the work that they did and the Black Authors Hall of Fame.
• 16:21
  Alice James: So it's a lounge that have these books and we have a signed book from Langston Hughes within the lounge, within the university.
• 16:30
  Alice James: So we did the initial induction and then we started building out the foundation for it.
• 16:38
  Alice James: So when people come in, they're like, okay, we're coming into something.
• 16:44
  Alice James: And as life is always changing Dr.
• 16:48
  Alice James: Caldwell is now on the campaign trail to become Lieutenant Governor.
• 16:54
  Alice James: So there's a lot of moving pieces and one of the things I've learned in life is not to try to shove things in the way you want them to go'cause if you let it evolve, it'll probably be better than you thought it was gonna be.
• 17:09
  Tom Jackobs: It's pretty amazing when you let things happen the way that they're supposed to happen you're not forcing it, and obviously there needs to be some urgency to some things, but if forcing something to happen is never warrants a good result, usually it's like pieced together.
• 17:25
  Alice James: It's like the story of the butterfly, how it struggles to get out of the cocoon, but if you cut it open, it doesn't allow the butterflies wings to actually work.
• 17:39
  Alice James: And the fluids don't go where they need to go that struggle is a part of what makes everything come into being.
• 17:48
  Alice James: To me it's sometimes it's not a struggle, right?
• 17:51
  Alice James: Because we have this vision.
• 17:52
  Alice James: I needed to have this open and done by this date, and it's not.
• 17:57
  Alice James: So now you're trying to force something that is saying no.
• 18:01
  Alice James: Hold back is something more beautiful coming.
• 18:04
  Alice James: Just keep working.
• 18:06
  Alice James: Keep working.
• 18:08
  Tom Jackobs: Awesome.
• 18:08
  Tom Jackobs: So what's next for you in terms of your heart-led journey?
• 18:12
  Alice James: Oh wow.
• 18:13
  Alice James: I feel like I'm finally coming into my own because I started this as a part of a group of people that were doing shows, and then that bigger group became a smaller group, and then now I'm on my own.
• 18:27
  Alice James: I'm like, people talk about you have an accountability.
• 18:31
  Alice James: I'm like, no, I've never even heard of that.
• 18:33
  Alice James: And so I finally feel like I've come into my own and I figured out some things that I've been trying to figure out.
• 18:41
  Alice James: For say the past five years and I'm still evolving my coaching understanding'cause I feel my coaching understanding really informs my podcast understanding of people.
• 18:53
  Alice James: And I just finished, a course on neurodiversion.
• 18:57
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, okay.
• 18:58
  Alice James: I interviewed a author, a young lady, and she's phenomenally autistic.
• 19:04
  Alice James: She just inspired me.
• 19:06
  Alice James: And then on top of meeting her and her energy and what she was putting out there, I always knew I had some sort of something that I couldn't fix.
• 19:20
  Alice James: For me, not many things are broken.
• 19:22
  Alice James: It's just, you just have to find a way to work around it.
• 19:25
  Alice James: And back when I was, we used to watch the Huxtable and Theo was diagnosed with dyslexia.
• 19:33
  Alice James: I said, I have that, but I have it for writing.
• 19:35
  Alice James: Like my reading, reading comprehension and stuff.
• 19:39
  Alice James: Never had a problem.
• 19:40
  Alice James: Writing for me was always a challenge.
• 19:43
  Alice James: So about two years ago, I actually took a dyslexia evaluation and found out that issue that I was having with my writing is a form of dyslexia.
• 19:54
  Alice James: But they only talk about dyslexia really around the reading aspect of it.
• 19:59
  Alice James: They don't talk about it.
• 20:00
  Alice James: So I was like, okay.
• 20:02
  Alice James: So then I started going down that rabbit hole of trying to understand and in understanding, I recognized the traits that they were describing as neurodivergent traits.
• 20:14
  Alice James: It was pretty much every trait of every creative person.
• 20:18
  Alice James: Not every different aspects of it was traits of pretty much every single creative person that I've ever worked with over the past 40 years, and we never saw it as something that needed to be fixed for them.
• 20:33
  Alice James: We always said, oh, so and so has a quirk, right?
• 20:36
  Alice James: You get to meet John and John's quirk is that he needs, I don't need you to color code things for me.
• 20:44
  Alice James: I color code everything for myself.
• 20:46
  Alice James: I can look at a page and when I was working in the fashion world, that was one of the things my production people will go, Alice, how do you give us our answers so quickly?
• 20:56
  Alice James: I look down as the page is green, it's done.
• 20:59
  Alice James: If the page had a yellow strip strike through it, I was like, it's almost done, but I'm waiting for this one question to be answered or this one test to come back.
• 21:09
  Alice James: And that was my way of working.
• 21:12
  Alice James: It wasn't a problem.
• 21:14
  Alice James: It wasn't anything wrong with me.
• 21:17
  Alice James: It was quite efficient and people loved it.
• 21:20
  Alice James: I taught that skill to many of my coworkers.
• 21:24
  Alice James: They adapted that process.
• 21:26
  Alice James: So I'm going down this rabbit hole and I'm recognizing these traits are traits.
• 21:33
  Alice James: That a lot of creatives possessed.
• 21:37
  Alice James: So I'm like, I work with creatives and they might be seeing these traits as an obstacle, or if they're reading the clinical definition of it, they might see it as a problem.
• 21:52
  Alice James: But I lived it for over 40 years.
• 21:55
  Alice James: Just as a part of my personality, and I've seen other people live it all their lives just as a part of their personality.
• 22:04
  Alice James: So how do I combine what I'm doing and encourage creatives to embrace the way their brains work.
• 22:12
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, absolutely.
• 22:13
  Tom Jackobs: I find that to be superpowers really, and, to label something as a disorder or something like that, just doesn't sit well with me personally but that's great that you're doing that.
• 22:22
  Tom Jackobs: How can people learn more about your coaching and the podcast and all the other great work that you're doing?
• 22:28
  Alice James: The podcast is really doing well on YouTube right now.
• 22:34
  Alice James: That's why I say I've finally come into my own.
• 22:37
  Alice James: I was all over the place trying to figure out where do I need to focus?
• 22:42
  Alice James: And then I just decided I'm gonna focus in on YouTube because everybody has access to it.
• 22:47
  Alice James: At this time, I'm currently updating my webpage to offer more of the things that I'm doing because until I was able to actually get grounded, I was trying to keep it very close.
• 23:03
  Alice James: The authors that I work with they call me host and coach.
• 23:08
  Alice James: I'm doing interview.
• 23:09
  Alice James: How, what should I do?
• 23:10
  Alice James: What should I say?
• 23:12
  Alice James: So my website's there you could get a lot of information about who I've already interviewed.
• 23:18
  Alice James: I tell my authors this, I'm not a one and done type person.
• 23:22
  Alice James: You know some people, you meet them, you see them, you have an interview with them, and it's over.
• 23:27
  Alice James: You never hear from them again.
• 23:29
  Alice James: I am always looking at ways in which to pull them back into something that I'm doing.
• 23:35
  Alice James: I give you an example.
• 23:37
  Alice James: The Centenary University invited me to be a part of their literacy program, and they had the International Literacy Foundation there, and they asked me to do what we were calling a taste of literature.
• 23:54
  Alice James: So we did.
• 23:56
  Alice James: I had my authors that talked about Africa in a section, and then I had my US authors, I had Caribbean authors, so the teachers and the educators that came to this literacy conference got to meet all of these different diasporic authors.
• 24:17
  Alice James: And I reached out to all these people that I interviewed and said, Hey, I'm doing this.
• 24:24
  Alice James: Would you like to be a part of it with me?
• 24:26
  Alice James: Can I promote your book with this?
• 24:27
  Alice James: I had them do a mini infomercial about their book, did a QR code for their book and the library set up monitors.
• 24:38
  Alice James: So you got to see their infomercial.
• 24:41
  Alice James: I had their physical book copies there and a QR code that they could go on and buy the book.
• 24:46
  Tom Jackobs: Oh, that's really awesome.
• 24:47
  Tom Jackobs: That's a great way of giving back and showing heart.
• 24:49
  Alice James: Yeah, because I look for authors that are inspiring, empowering, and we are not tearing anybody down.
• 24:58
  Alice James: We're not looking for the worst quality in people because those are the people that I'm attracted to, I wanna see them flourish.
• 25:08
  Alice James: I wanna see them grow.
• 25:09
  Alice James: I want people to know about them.
• 25:11
  Alice James: I want people to know all that they're doing.
• 25:14
  Alice James: So whatever I can do to show them off, I'm all for it.
• 25:20
  Alice James: And it's easier for me to talk about other people than myself.
• 25:23
  Tom Jackobs: That's awesome.
• 25:25
  Tom Jackobs: The world needs more people like you, Alice, and I really appreciate you taking the time today to share your journey and your gifts with our audience.
• 25:33
  Tom Jackobs: And thank you for doing the work that you're doing.
• 25:35
  Alice James: Thank you for having me.
• 25:36
  Alice James: Thanks for inviting me on.
• 25:38
  Alice James: You're only my second interview, because I like the name of your podcast, heart-led Business, one of the things that I was gonna say that I learned was what I wanted to charge for.
• 25:53
  Alice James: I didn't wanna charge people for being able to tell their story.
• 25:57
  Alice James: I'll charge you so I can help you promote it more, but I won't charge you for telling it'cause I want you to be able to tell it freely.
• 26:07
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 26:08
  Tom Jackobs: That's great.
• 26:08
  Tom Jackobs: That's actually a really good business model too, because it's giving back and then you'll get the return at some time.
• 26:14
  Tom Jackobs: Awesome.
• 26:15
  Tom Jackobs: Again, thank you Alice for being on the show.
• 26:17
  Tom Jackobs: I really do appreciate you.
• 26:19
  Alice James: Thank you so much for having me.
• 26:20
  Alice James: This was a wonderful experience and hopefully I'll do something worthy of coming back again.
• 26:27
  Tom Jackobs: And thank you listeners for tuning in today and listening or watching the show depending on the platform of your choice.
• 26:33
  Tom Jackobs: So make sure that you're checking out everything that Alice is doing.
• 26:36
  Tom Jackobs: We're gonna put all the links down in the show notes, so make sure you're checking that out.
• 26:40
  Tom Jackobs: Click on those links and make sure you tune into her podcast as well, and we'll make sure we put a link down in the show notes for her podcast.
• 26:47
  Tom Jackobs: And while you're down there, why don't you do me a little quick favor, and that would be to give the show a rating and a review.
• 26:53
  Tom Jackobs: I'd really appreciate it.
• 26:54
  Tom Jackobs: Just spreads the word about the show and all the great things that our guests are doing.
• 26:58
  Tom Jackobs: And until next time, lead with your heart.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.