Latest / Inner Alchemy with George Stuby – Trauma, Music and Plant Medicine / E17- Gary Fabbri: From a Life That's Just Okay to a Life That's Truly Yours

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E17- Gary Fabbri: From a Life That's Just Okay to a Life That's Truly Yours · Inner Alchemy with George Stuby – Trauma, Music and Plant Medicine

• George: Yeah, I'm super happy to be here today with Gary Fabry. And Gary is a writer and artist, a speaker and a creative director. And he's the author of several published novels, as well as the author of a book called Atomic Awareness. have it here. Atomic Awareness. A Guide to Crafting an Extraordinary Life Based on the Power of the Present. And yeah, we will definitely go into the book today. and he is based G Fabbri: Thanks. George: in Stockholm and his work is driven by a fascination with inner artistry and strategic alignment. His mission is to help people unlock their inner artistry and align their daily habits with their deepest values to live their best lives. And he believes that in an age of distraction, one of the most powerful things you can do is to reclaim your attention and awareness. And yeah, I feel that's really also what the book is about. Yeah, G Fabbri: thanks. George: welcome to this podcast, Gary. G Fabbri: Yeah, I'm really happy to be here, George. George: And I'm curious, how did it happen that those topics, awareness, attention, alignment with values, that you wrote about this and that you created a whole book about this topic? G Fabbri: Hmm. So most of my, let's say, professional life, I've been a professional creative. I've worked in T V channels in London and then here in in Stockholm, working in agencies as a creative director. And the the more that you do, the you know the more that you work with other people, you realize that a lot of people are blocked in their creativity. And as I became George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: a creative director, I started to work with teams and try to help them to find like creative solutions, ideas, and then to align them with whatever the objective was, of course. And after I had kids and I got a I broke up with the kid's mom, I saw I got a divorce, I started to have like a really maybe for the first time, a truly troublesome time inside myself. I mean when I was a kid it was I was poor and all that kind of stuff. So those things. But then since since I became an adult, you know, everything was kind of okay, kind of fine, right? And then when I broke up and I had two small kids and in Sweden what we do is we have this system where you have the kids full time every other week. So I had to be like a full-time dad George: Mmm. G Fabbri: but but every other week. George: Yeah. G Fabbri: And there was a lot going on, you know, breaking up the guilt, the shame, and all those kind of things. George: Wow. G Fabbri: And I started searching, you know, what for things that I need. Something wasn't right inside of me. So I started with reading the literature, you know, the seven habits and you know, rereading all the people that influenced me in the past, like Carlos Castaneda and all these kind of like spiritual writers and the alchemist, and you know, it just went on and on this this broad spectrum of of literature. And I thought We all we all we all need this, you know? And I was so much in my head and everything, and I was studying this, trying to figure out everything and I was blind to what was happening outside of me. I felt totally blind. I was like trying to work. I was a creative director. I was trying to do this and that. I was trying to get these kids to grow, you know, and and and I didn't have any stillness or any space or any kind of I was just like unhappy and stressed out. And I was reading all these kind of things and then one day I was walking over this there's a big bridge that connects the islands of Stockholm and I was walking over the top of that and I just looked out over the water and I was just felt this like strong, I don't know, release or power or whatever. And as I got over the edge of the bridge, I f I saw a leaf on a tree. So it was like, you know, just on the side of the bridge. It was like leaf moving. And I think it was the first thing that I saw that was outside of myself in like a year and a half. And at that moment it was like I see. And when I started to see, then I started to it was like a big momentum, a flood of stuff that came out of me. And then I started to work more with this material and everything like that. So it was out of this feeling of desperate desire for some change or transition or something like that. George: Yeah, thank you for sharing all of this and yeah, G Fabbri: Mm. George: I can totally relate to this leaf moment. I also have G Fabbri: Mm. George: like a memory like that of a conference about mental health and one of the speakers talked a lot about an inner place of stillness or like the DI of the storm. the ground of the ocean that's always still no matter what's happening on the surface. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And I was here in the UK and I remember watching out of the window and seeing like the leaves waving in the wind and really feeling what he was talking about. It something that I've G Fabbri: Mm. George: never forgot. G Fabbri: Hmm. The trees are talking to us, right? Calling us. George: Yeah, as you described it to be outside of ourselves, to be free from a moment, for a moment of thoughts of worry or thoughts of pain or thoughts of maybe overwhelm of what's happening right now and all of those things. And to connect G Fabbri: Mm. George: something that's bigger or deeper than that. and Yeah, I with your book we have so much to talk about. Like how would you describe the book to someone you would meet? G Fabbri: so I it's not like a a manual or a textbook. I mean, it fits into the genre of these kind of self help things or whatever. George: Mm-hmm. Yeah. G Fabbri: but I I feel that what it is, it's a it's a kind of an indication about how you could kind of are tips and tricks or ways to work with your inner world to find a alignment with yourself so then you can perform better. when you're more aligned with who you are, your real desires, your feelings, and your needs, and then you're able to communicate them to yourself, then perhaps you have a chance to communicate them to others. So George: Yeah. G Fabbri: I think it's a little bit about that, and also about you know, a Especially for many of us, we we tend to do things because we have to or because we're trained to do them or w whatever the case might be, but sometimes we need to like reevaluate what it is that we really feel and need and want. both to do with our time, but where George: Totally. G Fabbri: we who how we want to be. So that's why I George: Mm. G Fabbri: I wrote it. And I think that's probably the best way for it to help people. So open these doors, you know, maybe some light comes on and you think, yeah, I could I could George: Mmm. G Fabbri: do that. But I really it's more about state of being, right? And letting go of the the stuff of of and the expectations and the, you know, and all that kind of stuff. George: Yeah, and at the beginning of the book you talk about, I think you name it Loma? Do I remember that right? G Fabbri: The what do I name it? George: Loma, the golden cage, so to speak, or the cage of G Fabbri: yeah. George: our habits, of our life that we have built so far. And I think it's a sweet, sorry, lagom. G Fabbri: Yeah. Yeah, la gom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in Sweden, la gom means that everything's just okay, right? and that's can be a positive thing in the sense that it's lagom, it means it's not too hot, not too cold, right? It's like George: the Goldilocks. G Fabbri: The go the golden lock, right? George: Yeah. G Fabbri: a lot of people live their lives in the logom state. And especially the let's say the better that your life gets, certainly in terms of like let's say socioeconomic life, the more logom sometimes our life can become. So you might be doing all the things that you think you want to do. and at the same time, everything's just kind of bland, you know. You don't really have this kind of sense of adventure anymore for your life. This is your life. You know, George: Yeah. G Fabbri: you you can see. Spend it however you want. You should be living your best life, right? And not just kind of accepting this kind of state of things as they are. And looking at that and saying, I I love this. I want to do this, you know. So yeah, it's it's it's we're easily trapped in the in the in the life of Lagom, which is like this kind of, you know, life. George: Yeah, where everything is okay, which is already amazing and certainly also a privilege that we're in G Fabbri: Mm. George: a safe place and that we have food and G Fabbri: Yeah. George: shelter and all of those things. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: But at the same time, as I hear you say, it can also be... maybe even an excuse to not go for what we really want to go for. And to say G Fabbri: Y yeah, exactly. George: like, had this dream when I was younger to maybe be an artist. And now I maybe work in a corporate setting and I make enough money and everything is fine. And this dream of being an artist is then maybe. Yeah, a dream that's never fulfilled or that's maybe even suppressed, defended from this part that says, yeah, everything is fine as it is and I have a comfortable life. G Fabbri: Mm. Yeah, and then maybe maybe you're happy, maybe you're not. And it's not that it's so the thing is is it's not saying that if you're comfortable with your life, that that's a bad thing. If you're happy with your life, whatever the conditions of it, that's the thing, right? George: Yeah. G Fabbri: And many, many people just aren't. They're just not not happy and they're not doing things that they really want to do. George: Hmm. Yeah, I feel that's certainly something I hear a lot in the retreats I'm guiding and also in one-on-one sessions that people say I want to I want to feel more authentic or want to express myself really and I feel I'm not doing that. I feel I live maybe even the life of somebody else. G Fabbri: All right. George: I always love this. I just this kind of provoking sentence of like, you who draw your vision board? Did you draw your vision board or are those ideas actually coming from the parents, from your friends, from society of like what other people told you a good life looks like and a happy life looks like and what other people told you this is what a good person does, so to speak. That's a whole other level, yeah. G Fabbri: And now we've got AI to tell us too. George: But yeah, that can be very different from actually being really in touch with yourself or like being really feeling I'm really doing what I'm supposed to do in this lifetime. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And yeah, I that's a really, really interesting start of your book and to question that and to also challenge that thinking of like, yeah, am I really happy with how my life is? Am I really making space for all the parts that are important? G Fabbri: Mm. George: Or am I like maybe... even building a life, a certain lifestyle to not go to the ideas and wishes and bits of inspiration that on the one hand are exciting but on the other hand also feel a bit dangerous. Or G Fabbri: Yeah. George: where there is fear also around it, G Fabbri: Mm. And saying that one of the things that can happen when we and people often ask me, you know, when I'm in groups or working with groups or something like that, because George: Mm. G Fabbri: they they ask me like, you know, like what do you do? Right. And it's not about what you do, you know, it's about how you feel and and who you are. Yeah. i there's a lot of stuff to do, you know. Hmm. Yeah. George: Yeah. I love that. It's about who you are. How you feel. Can we elaborate a bit more on that? I feel that's a really beautiful angle and also a big part of the book, as I read it. G Fabbri: Yeah, because like so if you know, you like me and many of people who get involved or would be interested in your you know, your podcast or in in my book. it's about like they they're open to doing stuff, right? Because they've already come to this idea, there's something there. So then we start doing things, you know, whether it's the optimization side, we get up at five in the morning, do push-ups, drink bulletproof coffee, you know, all that kind of stuff, five minutes of yoga, breathe, and and then you know, face our day. Or if it's the other thing, the other side where we go on you know, retreats and then we become like a fixture at the yoga studio. And then we do all this kind of like, you know, dances and this and that, but but but we never assess how we really feel. So we kind of mask it through activity. And activity is important, of course, right? because how we are physiology physiologically can affect and does affect how we feel about ourselves. So if we place ourselves in a you know big dance and we're releasing that, that activity is so good for us. That isn't the thing. The actual moment when you're actually dancing isn't the thing. Just like if you're enlightened, it's not the thing in that moment, right? It's this, it's this George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: how it spreads itself across to your life and in all the things that you do. So if you're dancing and you're in ecstatic dancing and all that stuff and you feel so amazing, and then you go into work on whatever day and you feel like shit, right? Then yeah, you get a little glimpse of how it can feel. But what you want to do is find tools or ways of being, tools that can help you. to be that way that you want to be whatever you're doing, however you're living, right? Those are often are the most, yeah, go ahead. Those are George: I totally agree. No, you go. G Fabbri: often this the smaller or smaller, those are often the quieter things, like spending five minutes grounding ourselves throughout the day, maybe taking small pauses, right? And then the George: Hmm. G Fabbri: those activities that keep us keep us get back to center. The big things are important for experiences and for building community and for feeling like, this is possible. George: Yes. G Fabbri: but then the the everyday things is where we get lost. We don't want to say, yeah, all I want to do is go on retreat every day. Yeah, we always want to we want to be on holiday 247, you know, like just sit around. But at the same time we don't. We have this we want meaning and that meaning has to be a thread that we have all through our life, every day, every minute. You know, every hour, every minute, every second. And the idea with, you know, this atomic awareness is that it's all in those small moments that we're if we're most aware and most aligned and we use the practices that help us to find the small moments where we can be aligned, then the bigger moments, you know, are there too. George: Yeah, hmm, absolutely. And I feel like, you know, I've been in the self-development psychology field for something like 17 years in terms of like when I started to like really read a lot of books and do some first educations. And I've explored a lot of different angles to spirituality and all of those things. The longer I'm in that, the more I feel that ultimately it's about being and staying in a space where we feel connected and centered and creative and compassionate and loving and present and open, relaxed. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: many words in this run. Because then we are really present and we really in our life. We're not delaying G Fabbri: Mm. George: happiness towards when I reach this, I will be happy, which is always, yeah, it's never going to happen if we live like that. G Fabbri: Yeah. George: So we really like connected and present and happy. We are really receptive to imagination, to inspiration, to like... Some people would say like another energy to bring us ideas and inspiration to drink from this G Fabbri: Mm. George: well. And we're treating ourselves good and the people around us and the environment and we're just in a really beautiful space. That's not, G Fabbri: Yeah. George: that's also independent from what's happening outside because that's another misconception, right? That we, that Something in the outside has to determine how we feel inside Yeah, G Fabbri: Mm. George: and that it's And you can even look at this from from a level of the of the nervous system When you look have you ever heard of the poly vagal theory? Yeah G Fabbri: I have, yeah. Tell but you can tell us but I have heard of the you know, the vagus nerve and poly vagal nerve. But tell me a little bit about yeah. George: Exactly. So in the polyvagal theory, which is a perspective on our nervous system, we can be in three different states. And often it's a blend out of, but those would be like the three most distinct states. And that is we can be in activation, so in our sympathetic host, so we can be in fight or flight. or in a more positive and clear space of activation. But if that G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: gets too high, then we go into fight or flight. Or we can be in shutdown, in freeze. Or we can be in this open, relaxed state, which they would G Fabbri: Mm. George: say that's the ventral vagal. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And the interesting part is that the shutdown space is also connected to the vagus nerve, its dorsal vagal. It's just like... breaking so much, pushing the foot so much on the brake pedal that we freeze and that we're to shut down. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: And all of those are super important and are made for us to survive. For example, to freeze if we're standing in front of a lion in G Fabbri: Mm. George: like some hundred years ago, a thousand years ago. So very rarely nowadays. G Fabbri: Yeah. George: or that we fight or that we run away. G Fabbri: Mm. George: Or you could also say that another one would be that we are in fawn, that we befriend the aggressor. G Fabbri: Mm. George: But all of those where the stress response is built to be activated like a few minutes, few seconds, a few minutes, like every week, but not chronically. And nowadays G Fabbri: Yeah. George: in most of us it's activated chronically, which leads to all kinds of health issues. There's a G Fabbri: Mm. George: wonderful book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers by a professor G Fabbri: All right. George: Robert Sapolsky who also could be a comedian and a stand-up comedian because his lectures are really funny. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And of course the book title is also an ironic book title and it's like yeah, Zebras Don't Get Ulcers because they are not activating their stress response 24-7 and through that deactivate the healing capabilities of the body, the capabilities to rest and digest as they say. Yeah, so long story short, the more we are able to retrain ourselves to stay in ventral vagal, to access it first of all, and then also to stay there as long as possible. And if we're getting triggered to return there rather quickly, the more easy everything becomes in life. G Fabbri: Mm. George: both with ourselves, interpersonal work, everything. G Fabbri: Yeah. George: And I feel that's also what you touch on in the book. And I felt maybe we can read a bit like of it. For example, I this passage connects to that. As you gently tend to the spark, you will begin to create more quiet space in your life. And in that quiet space you will start to notice something new emerging, a subtle intuitive voice that was previously drowned out. G Fabbri: Mm. We we you know, we as kids we have dreams and we have, you know, all the stuff that we could possibly imagine for our lives. And then we make choices and sometimes those choices are things that we're conscious of, but sometimes they're not. They're you know, things that are forces that are driving us in particular directions. George: Mm. G Fabbri: And at some point when we can start to say to ourselves, Okay, now it's time to to r take a re-look at this. If we make time to do that, then that more aligned self, that self that's been with us all the time, kind of calling out, just please see me, see me. But it's been put down or pushed away for, you know, for whatever many reasons, which we could get into if we wanted to, but like, but the point is it's been somehow suppressed, but still calling inside of us. It might be that George: Hmm. G Fabbri: person that wants to be an artist, or it might be that person that wants to be, I don't know, it could be even something like being the most successful. It doesn't do financially, it doesn't matter what that thing is. But if it's calling to us and we kind of always pushing it away, then maybe in those quiet moments if we let that bloom, then it will start to grow again. And it's always there. It i it it will be there. and it's waiting for us. It's a seed within us that we or maybe it's not even seed isn't totally the right word because it's it's been probably already started to grow and it's been s you know cut off, but it will still grow. It's like a bulb, you know, that's waiting in the in the earth and then it can it can regrow. And we need to give it some sunshine and love and springtime and all that. We need to be gardeners George: Hmm. G Fabbri: for ourselves. George: That's a really beautiful metaphor to be gardeners for ourselves and like for our G Fabbri: Mm. George: true selves that can be buried by many masks that we maybe learn to wear throughout our lives. G Fabbri: Mm. Mm. George: Yeah, I just thought about a workshop on a festival I was on on a weekend and it was held by someone who does a lot of work for corporates. but it's not inside the corporate world anymore in terms of that she's like, that she did like a lot of the work that we talk about. And she said like that, that she often hears in the corporate, from corporate people, you look so amazing and you're full of energy. And then she thinks for herself, well. I'm look normal, but you're like caught in this mask wearing world. And that's G Fabbri: Mm. George: why you feel that something special to look like I look right now and to be in the energy that I'm in right now. G Fabbri: Mm. George: I find quite a funny remark. how you can literally see it if someone is very connected to this true self and it's like listening to their inner guidance and aligns their life. that inner guidance. G Fabbri: Mm. And it's not e it's not easy. I mean, even people who get perceived as being aligned and in tune and connected, you know, you know, sometimes in their private world they're like, you know, like chaotic or whatever. I could be like that, and many other people too, right? So we're it's George: Yeah, sure. G Fabbri: always work, right? It's like if you know, so if we see someone that just seems so put together or whatever, Zen like, whatever we want to call it, George: Mm. G Fabbri: you know, Yeah. Also understand that they ha they are living their life and whatever's happening inside them, they're human beings that are going through a whole process of stuff too. Right. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. George: 100%. I feel that's also really important to say. One practice that you propose in the book that I really love is the practice of setting an intention in the morning. So instead of just like jumping out of the bed and getting a coffee or taking care of the kids or like whatever it's like the first thing you usually do is like to slow down G Fabbri: Mm. George: and to ask yourself like what is my intention for today. And maybe you can explain a bit what an intention is in that setting, which we also do in the book, and which G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: I think is really helpful how you describe it. G Fabbri: So one of the things, you know, like that you might do in a yoga class, if if anyone goes through yoga or a meditation class, is someone will say, you know, this is the time to set your intention, you know, and George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: then you're like, okay, well, what's my intention? I'm gonna be more calm, de stressed, whatever. And what I like to think about when I'm referring to this a little bit is like, how do you want to show up? How do you want to be George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: and then your in your you're like let's say you have a you might you might be used to setting let's say intentions or goals or whatever for your work you might say I'm gonna do these five things and I'm gonna make sure I do these three first and all this kind of stuff these tools that people have you know provided us to be more productive and efficient and all that kind of stuff and the question about this kind of intention is how how do I want to be today? You know, and maybe what we're working on, you know, patience is an obvious thing. But let's say I I my intention is to be patient today. Now, then we could look at all the things that come up from the first stepping out out onto the floor. am I am I am I allowing that intention to play out, right? Or am I rushing to get my coffee now? And am I only patient when you know it's a trick, you know? And then we're gonna face we we tend to face those things that we need to work on too. So we tend to be, let's say, we're gonna go buy coffee at a coffee shop and this person in front of us and they're just really annoying and take a long time. And we George: Yeah. G Fabbri: feel this impatient. It's like a typical thing. Now, how do I want to show up? Now, I could get triggered by that, or I could say, Well, my intention is to be, you know, patient. What does George: you G Fabbri: that what does that mean? How does that play out? and so it it's a little bit like that. And when we start to work on those sides of ourselves that we can identify, you know, and it could be virtuous thing or it could be more present or whatever. the the those things as our days play out and we start to see how we actually behave and how we feel in each situation, and kind of have that intention hanging there, it can be a very beautiful practice and something that can help us. But George: Beautiful. G Fabbri: just like, you know, when we're meditating and everyone says, yeah, I'm trying to meditate, but my mind is zipping this way and zipping that way and I can't meditate. That's the whole point. It's just bringing it back, you know. That's that's like George: Hmm. G Fabbri: doing a rep at the gym and meditating. It's just, there it was. I was thinking about this thing. work or whatever or a kid's something I have to do. And then I say, okay, I can bring it back to whatever my focus of meditation is, because my intention is to meditate. And the same can be true with your intention for the day. It's okay that you become impatient in the coffee line because you've been programmed, you know, and you know that you have to be at it somewhere else in 20 minutes and you have time to, you know, all these kind of things. So you work with that, you get impatient, you say, there it is. I can work with this again. It's another chance. Rather than I'm a failure because I wasn't able to be patient or I'm going to give up. Patience George: Yeah. G Fabbri: isn't worth it or whatever. Right. So it's finding that way to work back towards it. And that's how we we grow step by step rather than taking some big, miraculous, you know, thing that we're transformed in one moment. George: Yeah, I love that. it's, You know, had to... While you spoke, I'd like to think about... I think it was Benjamin Franklin. And... And he was known for that he, you know, he would, like, set himself... He would take a virtue every month and work on that virtue. G Fabbri: Yeah, yeah. In the autobiography of Benjamin Franklin. George: I think it was Benjamin Franklin, but like you who are listening, can fact check that. I know it was a former American president. Anyway, G Fabbri: Mm. George: like, and yeah, that's something I really loved, like this idea of taking a virtue, like for example, patience or compassion and exploring that for like, it could be a day or in his case a month. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: And also to... Yeah, then have the awareness of like, okay, this is something I'm exploring and like to reflect on it and like to see, okay, where was I able to already like really embody this and where in which moments was it really difficult or even impossible. And as you said, not G Fabbri: Mm. George: take that as a moment of, my God, I fucked up and I'm a bad person, but G Fabbri: Yeah. George: to, Yeah, just use it as data basically and to say, okay, this situation really triggered me and I was not able to stay patient. And that could G Fabbri: Mm. George: be done in my world, a starting point of like a therapy session, for example, and to see G Fabbri: Yeah. George: like what's coming up there and yeah, in that line of work then. Yeah, we hit like, it goes into resonance with like moments of in our childhood where we experienced something which is underlying in the unconscious world still with us. and maybe we didn't feel seen by the waiter. And then it goes back to like, yeah, very early moments in our nuclear family where we didn't feel seen. That's a whole other story. But it's all G Fabbri: Mm. George: like, yeah, I feel it's all data and it all can be inspiration to work with that and to say, okay, here I wasn't able to embody this, like, and what is this about? And what could I also... clear out of my system, what can I meet with more compassion in myself that helps me then in the future to be able to embody this, for example, virtue or intention of presence, of patience in situations G Fabbri: Mm. George: where up to that moment it was not possible. G Fabbri: Mm. And in that in that moment when we do that, we take that time, whatever it is, to reflect. That's also the moment where we step away from the fight or flight mechanism. And and yeah. So it it's George: Yeah, that's right. G Fabbri: like it's a a upward spiral when we take those moments to work with those things too. George: 100 % here. It's like this, Victor Frankler, wrote about this a G Fabbri: Meaning George: lot, right? Like the, the space in between, between, exactly. And that G Fabbri: Stimulus and response. Yeah. George: there is a space where we can take a breath and decide like, how is my response going to be now? and it's totally. part of this journey as we already touched on that this is not always that there will be moments where we quote unquote fail. G Fabbri: Mm. George: But those are moments are really important because in those moments we can grow a lot and then bring that growth into the next situation. Mistake makes better as one of my teachers used to say it. G Fabbri: Exactly. Yeah. Of course. one of the things 'cause you're I know you're a musician too, and one of the things that you learn if you're a musician is the idea of slow practice. That's like the key, you know. Yeah. So George: Yeah, so important. G Fabbri: and if people who do anything physical, if you take the time and you work slowly And consciously, you're you get faster, faster by going slower. And we George: Yeah. G Fabbri: can do that in many different aspects of our life. And so music is a very com one that we we've kind of got it ingrained in us if we've been learning how to play an instrument. Because we're and and it's easy to describe as well with instruments, because basically, if you say to someone, the reason that slow practice works is because you're building a neural pathway from your fingertip or whatever your thing is, right, to the George: Yeah. G Fabbri: the next place or the next place or whatever. And George: Yeah. G Fabbri: that neural thing is also connecting with your desires and your ears and many things are connected together. So by going slow, you're creating a kind of neural pathway. And we can do that when we're working with our let's say personality or psychology or that kind of stuff as well. If we slow down and George: 100%. G Fabbri: look at that, ask these questions, yeah. George: That's so true. And it's like, yeah, slow down to speed up. It's G Fabbri: Mm. George: so true. And I feel music and playing an instrument is an amazing metaphor for that. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: And in that sense, I also learned with music, like, it's way more difficult to unlearn an unclean way of playing or like a phrase that I just played wrongly, so to speak. because I didn't take the time to really maybe read in the notes what it actually is. It takes way more time to undo that than just to say I'm okay with playing this really slowly and ridiculously slowly, like really like one G Fabbri: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. George: note every second, like it's just really G Fabbri: Yeah. George: slow or even slower than that G Fabbri: Mm. George: and leave the ego out of the door. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And through that, like, get it right from the beginning on and saving me a lot of time later on. G Fabbri: Mm. George: Yeah. And I can totally see it also in the gym or like with everything, as you said, everything physical. It's really a game changer to allow ourselves to take this time. Yeah, and not rush through G Fabbri: Yeah, like when you you know, George: it. G Fabbri: exactly. When you listen to these, you know, gym guys that do podcasts and stuff and stuff and they talk about, you know, getting gains, almost all of them at some point will say something like, The technique is super important. You have to do this correctly, you know, whatever that correct means, George: Yeah. G Fabbri: but you have to do it in a way that is correct. When you start when you start losing it, it isn't helping you because you're yeah. Because you're sending the wrong messages to your body, but you're also, George: Mm. G Fabbri: you know, you're not gonna develop the way that you need to develop. Yeah. George: That's so true. And that's also why I started to work with a personal trainer recently, because I felt, you know, I don't have a motivation problem to go to the gym. And I know what exercises to do, but I felt it would actually be good to have someone who really focuses on the technique with me and who shows me like where my technique is off. there was... A lot of small things that put together make a hell of a difference. G Fabbri: Yeah. It's so huge, yeah. George: Not only in terms of like that it's, you know, less risk of hurting yourself, but also that the impact of the exercise is just way higher and that you get G Fabbri: Mm, mm. George: way more out of the same session than without focusing on the technique and to that extent. G Fabbri: Yeah. George: Yeah, which, yeah, that's one of the reasons why I really believe in coaching or in therapy or having someone who supports you in that and helps you to reflect. G Fabbri: Yeah, because it's hard for all of us to see ourselves, to see our bodies. I mean, we George: Yeah. G Fabbri: know, you know, visually, you know, dancers when they're obviously they have, you know, choreographers and they have trainers and you know, teachers and everything, but they also have mirrors and, you know, things so they can see their body from different angles. And George: Yeah. G Fabbri: there it's there are reasons why we need to see like we don't know how we look, you know. all of us, you know, the rest of us, right? K never seen our back until we've seen a picture of it, right? And stuff like that in the back of our head. So we don't see ourselves. And physically, you know, like that. And so to get someone to work with us and say, I see that your, you know, your shoulders are like, you know, pressing forward, just like to see what happens if you do this. And you're like, my God. And many times, like my piano teacher will say something like this, like the tension, because you get tense, right? And you want to make it your fingers are gonna like this. Yeah, yeah. George: Yeah, just relax your shoulders. G Fabbri: So you just like just like relax. And you're like, my God, it's so much easier. You don't even see it creeping up on yourself. Yeah. George: Yeah. G Fabbri: So it helps to have someone to reflect and to talk with you and work with you, of course. George: 100 % in all areas of life and also in this G Fabbri: Mm. George: area that we explored, have been exploring with like, how are we showing up in our lives? G Fabbri: Mm. George: What is our being? Not only in a festival, as you said, or like G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: in a ceremony, but also like, what is our being when we do our taxes? G Fabbri: That's not a great example. It's the perfect thing, obviously. Yeah, you get so like and you're like, my god, I gotta just just let this be part of the whole miss the whole thing. George: Yeah, G Fabbri: For sure, yeah. George: absolutely. Or like when we wash our dishes. G Fabbri: Mm. George: Like just really small moments that I feel like I've heard that in many traditions then, or like Buddhism or like also yogic traditions. So it's really about those small moments. And always keeping part of our energy, attention inside of like what's going on internally right now, which is also practice. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And I feel that's where music for me is another amazing example, because if you want to be, if you want to play an instrument on a level where it really sounds nice for others and for yourself and where you really can Yeah, master a song, it's daily practice. Nothing else. Like if you play once G Fabbri: Mm. Hundred percent. Yeah. George: a week and you enjoy it, that's great, but you will never be on a level where you can really perform a song and really be G Fabbri: Yeah. George: there and really transmute what the song is about. G Fabbri: Yeah, the I mean, one of the greatest pianists of all time, Franz Liszt, who was like this virtuoso pianist. I mean, you know who Franz List, but maybe other people George: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. G Fabbri: don't don't know. But he was like of his day, the best pianist in the world, right? And George: Yeah. G Fabbri: he said, if I don't practice for one day, I hear it. If I don't practice for two days, my friends hear it, and I don't practice for three days, the public hears it. And basically, yeah. George: Yeah, I know that quote, yeah. Yeah. G Fabbri: You've heard that quote, yeah. And he it was like, you know, the most amazing pianist ever. So it is this thing where, you know, you you it's a practice. And what we're what you know, if if let's say, the tools that we have in the psycho-spiritual world are, you know, breath work and meditation, awareness practices, you know, all these things, they're also things that we can incorporate into our daily lives to help us get back to that point. George: Totally. G Fabbri: And I would contend, like you yeah. George: And when we do them daily and when we integrate them in our lives, like brushing our teeth, when we make them a habit, G Fabbri: Mm. George: when we make them habits in our life, it's really a different way of living. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: And it's so much more. easy to choose from which place we want to come from, to choose like what kind of energy do I want to embody, what kind of beingness. And also to realize when we're feeling often, when we feel triggered and then to take a moment to take care of that and not just brush over it. Yeah. G Fabbri: Mm. Mm. Because you're feeling it for a real reason. George: Yeah. G Fabbri: it's easy when you when you when someone gets faced with the reaction, right, that you you put out, it's easy for them to like say snap back and say you're being arrogant or nasty or aggressive or all those things. And then you go into guilt and shame and then you close down that thing. George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: Instead, if there's a chance, it can be when it happens directly. It's hard because these emotions that trigger us, then we but once we've gone that far that it comes out, then then we're faced with it out there and all the implications that that has. But as soon as we can, if we can go back and say, okay, you you yeah, I I hear you and that okay, I'm I apologize for for behaving in a way that whatever. But then I have to start to go into me and say, okay, well, I felt this way. What is it in me? How can I release this? How can I work with this? So then it doesn't keep repeating, right? Something that we want to work with. so it's not easy either, right? Because we once we put it out there, whatever that reaction is, George: Hmm. G Fabbri: if we don't get between the stimulus and the response, if we aren't able to just say, wait a minute, that's okay because it can happen, but then we have to reflect, or we don't have to, we could reflect and we could say, Let's work on this. I felt this way. It's not about you, whatever you were doing, unless you someone was violently attacking you or something. It's about how I feel inside me and these the reasons I have to work on myself, whatever that might be. Yeah. George: Absolutely. And on the, on, and at the same time also clean up that situation with this other person, for example, which is also, yeah, that's, that's, that is, yeah. G Fabbri: yeah. You sound like Ken Wilbur, clean up and Claire, clean up or George: But I feel that's, we all, we, as we said earlier, like we all get triggered in certain situations and it's always possible to clean it up and part of taking responsibilities also to clean it up and to own our mistakes. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And a big part of the book I feel is also becoming more clear on, I would say about becoming more clear on who am I really and. G Fabbri: Mm. George: what are you describe it in this tripod metaphor that i really like could you speak a bit into that G Fabbri: Yeah, I'm trying to remember what I exactly what I wrote when you say the tripod metaphor. Is it the Yeah. George: Yeah, I got it here. Intention, values and action are like the three things that you mentioned. And in this chapter or in these two chapters, go like deep into the, like what is my way of doing things? What is my way of being here? G Fabbri: Mm. George: What are my? what are my values G Fabbri: Mm. George: and what are my intentions and to really take the time to reflect on that. And then later also like transfer that into... into what is my meaning and what is my purpose and how can I really G Fabbri: Mm. George: bring that into that world. G Fabbri: Mm. So yeah, like, you know, when we work with companies, people al always this leadership team has, you know, a a a meeting, we're gonna identify our values, you know. And then they're inevitably, George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: you know, transparency and this and that, right? is are are part of George: Yeah. G Fabbri: them. And we think, you know, they they just say that, they're writing that down, and then they don't live those values. George: Yeah. G Fabbri: and w we kind of have a a vague sense of our own values often, but maybe George: Mm. G Fabbri: we haven't articulated them, maybe we haven't like really communicated them or been clear with ourselves what we value, whether it's honesty integrity or whether it's care and kindness or whatever. and what where they register. So that work can be something that we can do. but it's something George: Hmm? G Fabbri: that we kind of know that's true to us, you know. and George: Yeah. G Fabbri: it's good if we're working with that to be honest. Maybe I don't value honesty as much as I value kindness, you know. So that's when it comes into like, you know, the white lie, right? Someone George: Yeah. G Fabbri: says, so the white lie is when someone looks bad and you say, you look nice today, and then then that's it, right? You let them go. You're not valuing, you're valuing kindness over honesty at that moment. Now it's obviously it's all moving parts that we're talking about. But through you from your value structure, then you create intentions. And that could be a small intention, how do I want to show up today? Or a bigger intention of what you want you want to do with your life and how you want to live and how you want to structure George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: things, all those things come into that. So it can be a small thing or it could be a very big, big, you know, big work. And then from those values and intention, we act. And when we feel like we're not aligned with our values and intention, we get peer pressure is the perfect example of that, right? We get pulled away. Someone says, let's go do this. Let's go, you know, rob the store or whatever, pickpocket or whatever it might be, you know, you know, take then we we know that we're not working from our values or our intention. and yet we do it, then we're not acting in alignment. Now that's obviously a simple, easy example, but it can be more like you know, subtle things as well. work? You know, what kind of compromises do we make? What kind of things do we agree to do that we know that we don't want to do really? It doesn't have to be like really bad or really good. It can be like, I don't want to, my intention isn't to spend all my time, I'm not an accountant. I want to be an accountant. I want to spend all my time doing bookkeeping and, you know, doing your taxes, right? So you figure out a my values are to have a fruitful business. My intention is to be the kind of person who creates Value for other people and I've got to do my accounting. All right. So maybe my my action is to hire an accountant George: Yeah. G Fabbri: to do that particular task or whatever. Right. So there are ways George: Mm. G Fabbri: to work with this material, but it's extremely helpful to have a a structure to talk about and to deal with these things and to reflect on, you know, what your values are really and what things George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: are really important to you. And don't try to make up someone else's values or take someone else's values. Really think through this because we inherit, you know, values from our culture, from our parents, families, friends, all that stuff. Yeah. George: Yeah, absolutely. We touched on that a bit earlier, this conditioning. You mentioned, I think, earlier, the author of the four agreements. G Fabbri: yeah. Yeah, the four agreements too. George: Yeah, I think you mentioned the author when you talked about like some things that you read when you felt a bit like stuck or like, yeah, in this phase after the divorce. G Fabbri: Mm. Ruiz yeah. George: You mentioned the seven habits of effective people and yeah, exactly. G Fabbri: Yeah, Stephen Comedy, The Seven Habits. Well, yeah. He w that was a super helpful book for me because it's so grounded and and and and real feeling and not not like spiritual, even though I love my I personally I love like mystical things. But the seven habits, the yeah, I love it, right? George: Yeah, me too. This is where we have hands on. Yeah. G Fabbri: The seven habits was helpful to me because it was a really clear structure about how to be in the world, like how to be in the world. You know, I think the first number one I think is proact pro act be proactive. George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: but then all these things help you to sort of, what is this? What are the paradigms that I'm living within now? And how can I work with them to be the person that I want to be? George: Yeah, absolutely. And when you talked about values, you also briefly mentioned that it's moving, it's moving parts. And I feel that's really, important because G Fabbri: Mm. George: in my experience, and I've done... different exercises around values for many years now. It's really changing over time and it's becoming more more clear. Like G Fabbri: Mm. Mm. George: who am I and what are my values and who am I not and what are not my own values but as you said like inhaled it once. yeah, I love many things that Gabor Maté talks about. And G Fabbri: yeah. George: one thing is that he says, that what we think our personality is, is for the largest extent a bundle of coping mechanisms. G Fabbri: Right. George: Which maybe at first sound, first sight sounds a bit depressing, but actually I think it's really liberating to realize I am not many things that I thought I am. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: And to... Because then we can really, then we can realize it's all made up and we can decide how we want to show up. G Fabbri: Yeah. George: And at the same time, there are some deeper truths about us. And I feel we are like here for certain reason. And it's also discovering that. like, for me, it was definitely helpful to surrender and to surrender to... something to show me what my path is and not to think that I know all these answers right now G Fabbri: Mm. George: or that I choose all of that. G Fabbri: Hm. George: But yeah, to play with that and to see what's happening when I let go of the reins and then what kind of inspiration comes and where are doors opening and then... And then choosing like, okay, how do I want to show up here? And that G Fabbri: Mm. George: connects back to what I heard from you earlier, that it's more about like, who are we in our life than what's the content, so to speak. Because G Fabbri: Yeah. George: the content can be like, and I think many people... I've heard that by now the content can be millions of dollars and every like traditional western success metric, but at the same time we can be depressed and unhappy or we can be greedy and like never satisfied and all of those things. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And ultimately destroying ourselves and the planet. Or the content can be G Fabbri: Yeah, my god. George: very modest and very like humble. G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: but we're feeling great and we are really happy and we are really grateful and connected and in great relationships and all of that. G Fabbri: Hmm. Our our lives are in some ways they're like an unfolding story, right? And we're playing all the characters, and sometimes we're more of one character. Let's say it's easy if we think of like compartments, like I'm a parent, I'm a professional, I'm George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: a whatever, runner, you know, I'm a musician. So those parts like that. But also within that, that's those stories that we're telling to ourselves. all the time. We're there's also a whole series of stories that we're telling to others, right? So we're presenting ourselves as one thing, you know, whether we're on the podcast, we're very well behaved right now, you know, we're not like, I don't know, doing something different than what we're doing. We're you know, we're attentive and all that kind of stuff. And So we're we're playing these parts, we're developing these stories. We have a continuous movement. And then the question is, you know, how do we want this story to play out? Who do how do we want it to be? And then to create the self that is this not only because you, regardless of whether you want to be or not, you're the let's say hero, you're the central figure of your story. When I talk about this to people who, you know, are and I'm teaching this or whatever you want to say. I always say, you know, from the yogic world, tattuamasi, you're it. And it's just that you don't know that you're it, you don't realize that you're it. Then you try to find out, okay, well what It am I? What story am I telling myself? And I suppose for Gaber Mate, he's saying, you know, yeah, your personality is all your coping mechanisms, all these stories that you've created, basically, to keep surviving in the first place. George: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. G Fabbri: And then that they start to play out in the, you know, in your daily life now as an ad an adult. George: Yeah, 100%. G Fabbri: Mm. George: And that we all have the capability to let go of those stories. And yeah, this sentence that you brought in, you are it, that really resonates. And I feel this distinction between, you know, I have this coping mechanisms, but I'm not this coping mechanisms. I G Fabbri: Yeah. George: Even like I have emotions, but I am not my emotions. I have certain G Fabbri: Mm. George: parts that were on certain things, but I'm not those parts. And like to... G Fabbri: Mm. George: go deeper than that and to connect to the essence that's behind that and that's also where I see it, the same essence of the... Well, it's a very spiritual essence, it's like the essence of what is the universe and everything is made out of. G Fabbri: Yeah, yeah. I mean that's why the whole the George: Yeah. G Fabbri: the yogic thing. So if you study yogic philosophy, it starts with you're it, tatwamasi, so hum, that George: Mm. Yeah. G Fabbri: I am, he, he I am. And then you say, Well, you say that I am it, but I don't feel like it. I I don't act like it. I wish I could tell, I wish I knew. And then the questions come, well, how do I f how do I rediscover that? How do I find out about that? So you're driving from this idea, like someone else says to you, and you know, because let's say the guru or the teacher or the teachings say that you are it. If you know that, then what path do you need to find the truth that you are it? And it might be a path George: Yeah. G Fabbri: of getting rid of stuff. It might be a path of integrating things. You know, you might need to do a combination of both, cleaning and cleaning and clearing and all that kind of stuff. And then also filling and fueling. And you know, that's why we say we George: Hmm. G Fabbri: want to be with people who ignite us, who enliven us. The group that we're close to makes such a big difference in our lives. yeah. George: That's so true, And what I also hear in that is like that ultimately it really depends like where you are right now and what to determine like what supports you best in following your path and being really authentically you and doing G Fabbri: Mm. George: the things that are aligned with that and creating the magic that comes with that. And it's a very, on the one hand, it's very individual. distinction to make like where am I right now G Fabbri: Mm. George: and what do I need right now and the other hand I feel like there are many traditions who have yeah hundreds thousands of years of experience and can point out where on a journey you are right now and what has been proven to have people in this moment and what G Fabbri: Mm. George: what the next steps could look like, so to speak. G Fabbri: Yeah, and you know, almost all of the practices, they have there's one thing or one practice. I mean, all of the practice, but mean all of the different approaches, let's say, you know, Zen or Yoga or whatever it may be, shamanism, almost all of them have one thing in common. they have many things in common, but one thing that they almost all have in common is the idea of like meditation or you know, taking that time. Almost everyone, it's spending time to go go going inward, giving George: Yeah. G Fabbri: yourself the space or whatever, and then yeah, the world of discovery, you know, there. Yeah. George: Yeah, that's so important and I feel that's... And you also write about that, that the world we live in right now is like a world that's filled with noise and distraction. we G Fabbri: Mm. George: are like in this, as they say, in intention economy, we're like the highest good that is on the market is the attention of us, like where we put our energy into and our attention and that... Yeah, millions of people or companies are like advertising for our attention. that on social media, G Fabbri: Yeah. So the question is like who's George: we are on a platform where it's like, where we are the product basically, right? Because it's a free platform. That means we are the product, our attention is the product. And it can be very tempting to be constantly busy. even with like things that look good on paper, so to speak, like listening to a podcast, listening to this podcast, or G Fabbri: Mm. George: like reading a self-help book or a psychology book. G Fabbri: Mm. George: But it can all be, also that can be a distraction ultimately. G Fabbri: Yeah, so you're giving these things your attention, but maybe without a clear intention. Right? So George: Mm-hmm. Yeah. G Fabbri: that the attention thing is spinning and all this kind of stuff. And I definitely get hooked in that, especially with like news, you know, with things happening around the world with, you know, Ukraine and Iran and all that kind of stuff. I'm listening to this stuff all the time. I'm and you get kind of into that. And it's like, wait, what is my intention here? It's good to be informed, but Do I want to spend two hours doing that? Or can I sort of think about, okay, my intention actually is to be a a better writer, to to reach more people, to communicate these ideas and thoughts and feelings. it's not to be a consumer of news or from around the world. So I have to take my attention, pull it away from all that, and then with an alignment with my own intention, do the work. George: 100 % and Yeah, something I had to think about right now is like that, like in my music production days, really my main focus was music production and writing music, which I'm still doing a lot, but yeah, back then it was G Fabbri: Course. Yeah. George: like my main focus. It was really important for me to hear that, you know, like... Let's say you want to track how much time you spent working on music. watching a YouTube video on production techniques is not counting towards that. Or like reading the manual of like a synthesizer or doing all those things that are important and can be helpful but this G Fabbri: Yeah. George: is not... making music, this is not producing G Fabbri: Mm. George: music and ultimately that can be a massive distraction even and it's even more mean than just like I don't know watching football because you feel you're doing something for your craft but it can be an avoidance of like not going to the blank page so to speak and connecting with, what music wants to come through right now and maybe even connecting with this fear of what if nothing comes. But instead G Fabbri: Mm. George: of that and facing that we can also like, yeah, watch YouTube videos on music production or on writing or like buying new pens or buying new synthesizers or like being constantly busy with like creating the perfect environment, the perfect studio, the perfect light or sound. and that can consume years and we haven't written a single note or we haven't drawn a single picture. G Fabbri: Yeah, I know, but we've listened to masses of master classes and YouTube clips and all this kind of stuff. George: Yeah. G Fabbri: And it feels like we're doing something for sure, hundred percent. Yeah. George: Yeah, and it's the same with psychology. We can read all the books on a topic, but if you're working with a therapist or a coach, and we're not really going into our own inner world, yeah, we haven't done the work yet. And just like looking a bit through what I highlighted at the end of the book. Hmm, yeah, something I love at the end you touch on like how our beings our contribution G Fabbri: Mm. George: and how Yeah, in the beginning, the small things, contributing, for example, our creative output, but also in the small things, like treating a waiter differently. Can you speak a bit into that? Into the small moments G Fabbri: Yeah, sure. George: of our contribution through our beingness? G Fabbri: Yeah, you know, as soon as we are aligned with with who who we want to be, and we start to offer that. so for instance, someone might decide that kindness is their the thing that they're working on, right? and so if you're Yeah, in a lot in a queue at the a grocery store. I it happened to me the other day and I I missed the chance and I felt really bad. There was a teenager in front of me, and he wanted to buy some stuff, right? Very small amount of stuff. And he blipped his card, you know, and then it didn't go through. And it was nothing. It was like, you know, three dollars or something, four dollars or something like that, like twenty, forty, forty crowns. So it wasn't very much money. And I I was seeing him struggling and I was listening to my podcast. or whatever I was listening to on my thing and I was in the queue. And I just thought for a moment, I'll you know, I I I'll I'll I'll contribute, I'll just tell him I can pay for him, you know. And and then and then just at that moment when I just I just felt like, I'll do this kind act of kindness, right? he got a little annoyed at the girl behind the thing and he kind of like threw his stuff and then he walked out really quickly, right? He he was he was embarrassed, you know. And George: Yeah. G Fabbri: I thought, do I I had a moment, very small moment, right? Because I'm next in the queue and she's pulling the stuff to the side. And I had a moment I was like, I would I should have, I could have, and I didn't jump in at the time when I felt I could have, right? And if we do those small things. And I had done that, it probably would have made that guy say, right? Now there's an example of me, let's say, fail you know, failing with my intention. And at the same time, I it was a learning for me because I I I had a chance to to live that. And when we do that. magical things happen. The way that we if we just talk to someone in a friendly way, all of a sudden the whole day can light up. You know, i i it's just so simple, so small things that we can George: Yeah. G Fabbri: contribute. And they have to come from us from with genuineness, you know. And it doesn't always have to be a compliment George: Totally. G Fabbri: to someone or whatever. It can also be just being, just listening to someone, you know. Very few people get someone to just listen to them. One of the things George: That's right. G Fabbri: when you when you do retreats or practice yoga or whatever. human touch, you know, very few people are some people don't get touched, you know? And if you're in a in a yoga class and and you're in your Shivasana lying down and someone just puts a hand on your shoulder, sometimes it's like it gives so much and it's such a simple thing. You know, so there are many Yeah, George: That's so true. G Fabbri: there's so many things like that that, you know That we can do in our lives. So if we can integrate small moments, tiny things. And it, you know, it sounds cliche, but like compliments or, you know, just positive our own positive energy, whatever it might be, George: No. G Fabbri: it can just shift everything, you know. George: 100%. I feel actually compliments are really good training ground for that. like, it's not about making up compliments and like, or like telling someone G Fabbri: Yeah. George: I really like your shoes when you really don't like them. G Fabbri: Mm. George: But like, you think, this is a really nice shirt, just to say it makes such a difference for this person's day. Yeah. G Fabbri: Yeah. George: And as you said, it can really like light up someone's day and maybe... actually profoundly changed the course of that day and maybe some important decisions along the way for this person and the person he's in touch with. G Fabbri: Hmm. I noticed that like you as a musician, me, you know, I I'm I'm a musician too, but more like in let's say the film and TV stuff and photos and stuff like that that I've done through my career. we create because the work that artists are doing and the temperament of artists, there's a there's a a tenderness or a vulnerability, let's say a vulnerability there. What we try to do almost all the time, at least right at the forefront is is to give to create an atmosphere of incredibly positive energy. Now some people do it fake wise, but many, many people are all like, you're just so this is so brilliant. You're doing so great. And hearing that helps you to perform better. And if we could integrate that kind of philosophy of of action, Into our daily lives, it would be amazing. There's this study, it's it's a psychological study, you might know about it. I don't know all the details, but it's called the grandmother effect. And basically, they they had basically these grandmothers who people who played grandmothers, and they just came in. Their job was for these little kids to just be grandma, to just be like, that's so good. You're so wonderful. I love what you made for me, right? And and then they had another group of kids just playing normally and It was like night and day. I mean, the the way that they behaved and performed and all those kind of things. It was like a mind blowing difference. and so, you know, these this kind of thing, we shouldn't be incorporating this into our life. George: 100 % goes, acknowledging others goes a really long way. And it doesn't cost us anything. G Fabbri: And also to ourselves. Yeah. And like, you know, all these trauma people will be like, you're beating yourself up too, right? Don't beat ourselves George: Mm. G Fabbri: up. We now as adults, looking back at the chin the tiny us that's in there that's needs to be nurtured and needs to finally blossom up again and that had dreams and desires and feelings, it needs to be told, You're so beautiful. I love you. I I I you know, you can do this, whatever you want, you know. we've been told from other people or from society or whatever it might be or other places, you know, or even ourselves. We get ha in the habit of doing that. And we need to nurture ourselves and be kind, you know. Yeah. I mean the other way other thing works as well. George: 100%. Self-compassion is definitely the way forward. G Fabbri: Yeah. Saying that, there's like, you know, a big movement, especially in the man's manosphere side with like David Goggins and all these kind of you know, tough, tough people. if you beat yourself up so much that you you numb yourself, there is a performance that can come out at the other end, you know. whether George: Yeah. G Fabbri: that is a healthy performance or not is another question. but It so it can look like success too, right? You can beat your way forward to success. Like Andre Agassi, the great, you know, tennis player, George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: has told stories about like his dad like you know militar militantly making him practice, right? It made him arguably one of the not arguably unarguably one of the greatest players in the world, but it made him like one of the greatest players in the world. And and at the same time, he's miserable, right? and George: Yeah, to what cost. G Fabbri: W yeah, so would he have been who he became without that? Probably not. So you you we can't say that it doesn't lead to success, but at some point, and this is the trick I think and the most important thing, is that we as adjusted adults, aware adults, have to take responsibility ourselves. And then nurture that side of ourselves to make sure that we are aligned with who we want to be, regardless of what has happened in the past or what the conditions were and what got us there. You know? and it's not being kind to yourself to not go to the gym. It's not being kind to yourself to sit at home on a Friday night and like guzzle untold amounts of alcohol and eat ice cream and drink bear, whatever it George: Yeah. G Fabbri: is, right? That's not kindness, you know. It's not taken easy on yourself either. So there is there there is a healthy activity that we can incorporate too. So it's finding that balance, George: 100 % G Fabbri: yeah. George: percent. You want to say to find this balance between G Fabbri: Yeah, it's important to find that like that truth. And that's where it comes with the inner alignment, right? Because we can say, okay, we want to be this person. If you really want to be, I don't know, the world's best endurance runner, you know, and you're George: Yeah. G Fabbri: starting out and you're pretty good, and that's your goal, then regardless of whether you want to or not, you've got to make yourself do stuff that are gonna hurt and all that kind of thing. And that might be okay if your intention is aligned with who you want to be. and sometimes we see people who have done that successfully, you know, that let's say athletes or whatever, they're they're able to have been able to be so competitive with their bodies that they are in pain, they're working through the pain, but they see the benefit they see the goal they see the reward whatever it is we see that in in the spiritual world as well as well if you go to india you'll see these people who are searching for enlightenment that never let their arm down so their arm is like withered away right they're they're putting in this time and this what they think is the the way for them they're torturing themselves basically for this George: Yeah. G Fabbri: reward so it isn't easy be kind either. I guess that's the main thing. It's not easy to align and go for these things. It's not all about just going, I feel a little tired today. I'm not gonna do anything. No, it's not about that. It's about showing up, you know, and George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: and facing those things and making sure that you're aligned with what you want and going for it too, I think. George: Yeah, I feel sports is a really good example for that. because, G Fabbri: Yeah. George: if you want to have a healthy and strong body, you need to show up and you need to, if gym is your thing, then you have to go to the gym or you have to show up for your exercise sessions. G Fabbri: Mm. George: But so I agree with you, it's not It's not just staying in bed or like on the couch. And it's definitely like, yeah, you grow muscles in the last repetition and the last repetition is a repetition, it's a point of failure. So G Fabbri: Mm. George: you have to train quite hard to get there. And then you can also learn, especially with a personal trainer, that when you think that's the last repetition, that's not the last repetition. But it's still not hurting yourself. It's not putting so much weight on that you... Well, we talked about technique. You still need to have a clean technique and you're not having G Fabbri: Mm. George: a clean technique when you have too much weight. So it's a lot of factors, right? Like that go into G Fabbri: Mm. George: that. I feel... I feel, and that's maybe a point of a lot of things that we touched on, that it's also a lot about recalibration. Like, G Fabbri: Mm. George: it's about recalibration of, for example, what I touched on earlier with like the nervous system perspective, polyvagal theory. It's a recalibration of maybe being, maybe think, maybe. a constant chronic stress activation, feeling that's where I am, that's my normal, G Fabbri: Mm. George: to realizing this is maybe normalized in our society, but it's not natural, it's not G Fabbri: Mm. George: ideal, it's not healthy, G Fabbri: Mm. George: and to recalibrate to, okay, to recalibrate to like a way more relaxed and open state, and to establish that as a new baseline. in working out, it's maybe recalibrating, depending where we are at, that... there's actually way more repetitions in us than we think. And knowing like, is my, how does it feel like when I'm going to this point of failure in a strength exercise without hurting myself? Recalibrating G Fabbri: Mm. Relaxation com George: like how, recalibrating like what's an ideal amount of exercise for me? And maybe we're coming from a point where we used to work out once every two weeks, which is not enough, but maybe G Fabbri: Mm. George: also coming from a point where we were like driven as fuck and we worked out seven days a week and we were actually in overtraining and we actually diminished our results through that because there's also something like too much workout and too much exercise. So it's like G Fabbri: Mm. George: coming back from that. maybe when it comes to work, we can really recalibrate to like, okay, there's actually more that we can do and we can work quote unquote harder. Or we come from a point where we are working a hundred hours a week because G Fabbri: Mm. George: we have a secret fear of not being good enough. And if we let that go, and if we heal that, we realize well, I'm G Fabbri: Mm. George: recalibrating to something that gives me more spaciousness and where I'm not. hurting myself. And it's, I G Fabbri: Mm. George: feel it's a really interesting question with success. And I feel it's really about how do we define success? Like, and I like this idea of like happy success or fulfilled success. And yeah, what is the G Fabbri: Yeah, meaningful success. Yeah. George: human potential? Yeah, right? Like, okay, if we work 100 hours a week on a, on a certain skill, G Fabbri: Mm. George: we can become outwardly good. in it, like Michael G Fabbri: Mm. George: Jackson level, like King of Pop, like nobody else could do that. But G Fabbri: Mm. George: he sacrificed everything for that and he was not happy and he died way too early. Club 27, speaking of that, right? Like it's, do we need more of G Fabbri: Hm. I mean George: that? I feel we need more people who are really alive and really connected and not, is it really important to be the next person who can? break the benchmark for like how fast someone can run in hundred meters, like how fast someone can run a hundred meters. If that G Fabbri: Mm. George: involves really breaking yourself and like sacrificing all your relationships for it and G Fabbri: Mm. George: becoming like a super stern person. don't know. G Fabbri: Mm. George: Ultimately, that's a question that everyone can decide for themselves, but yeah. G Fabbri: Yeah, it's a big question a big question. I I I I mean the whole six what is you know success, I guess we could talk about that for two or three hours. Like what success George: Yeah, that's our own book or our own podcast. G Fabbri: but like one of the things that you touch upon, which is like to be relaxed, if if we're if to be relaxed. Rehearsal helps us to relax it. Let's put it into the music thing, right? George: Mm-hmm. G Fabbri: So we're gonna play a piece, we're gonna perform it live for someone. Now, I could go up there, you know, and you maybe haven't played that piece 10 years ago, right? You could go up there and in front of your friends, you might be able to sort of bash it out and you won't feel like, you know, bad, but it won't be perfect. But if you rehearse that piece, then you can relax it into it. George: Yeah, that's fine. G Fabbri: you know, the best, let's say you see that in like when they show the bodies of the slow distance, I mean the the the slow mode versions of like you know, Hussein Bolt running or something, right? It's like this incredible tension and then a relaxation, right? And they show that to see the body just like so we through practice. And through in this could be meditation or whatever, slow practice of meditation, we actually become more we get the rewards through the rehearsal that and that that will that will deliver a relaxation in the end. It's when we're we're like disjointed and disconnected, you know, that we aren't able to reach that. So in that sense it's a let's say discipline, because that rehearsal takes time. There's no way you're gonna be relaxed if you never take time to work with your nervous system. You know, and all of a sudden someone George: That's my name. G Fabbri: says, Hurry up and relax and you're like, Yeah, you know, you can't do it, right? But if you have a system that's been built up that you've been rehearsing and you implement that, boom, and you get that. Before we started, you just said, Let's take a nice big breath. I'm like, yeah, you know, George: Hmm. G Fabbri: we have that rehearsed. We know, you know. If someone has never done that, you might be like, Take a big breath and be like, Okay. I'm ready. You know, like because it's not part of their practice. So I think that's maybe a better like a the sport thing is so it can be two like I'm gonna win or everything like that. And we're talking about something different. We're talking about winning as as our us as human beings. And to be that complete human being means that we need strategies and stuff like that to take away all the old stuff, the coping mechanisms, and to bring in the stuff so that we want. And to do that, we we need that, you know, that like the matrix when he finally gets it, it's like he's relaxed, right? It's all flowing by. Stress, tension, agents attacking, all that kind of stuff. And then once you in there, because you've been working and training and suffering, you know, maybe you're sitting in meditation thinking, I don't want to be here. my god, my mind, this doesn't work, whatever. But you say, you know, this is a practice I wanna rehearse. This is a rehearsal. Next day, next day, next day. Then when you need it, you have that built up. George: Mm. 100 % yeah. It's like, Yeah, the power of practice and small practice, like few minutes every day already G Fabbri: Mm, mm. George: is incredible. I would say one of the most important books I've ever read was a book on compounding effects and how small actions really G Fabbri: Mm-hmm. George: add up massively. I feel also like, coming back to your book, like small moments of awareness. and of re-choosing who you want to be and like introspection really add up massively and and a few months, a few years down the line it's a completely different way of life. G Fabbri: Exactly, yeah. George: Also give that time, that's also something I really learned through fitness and working out, it's nothing to do. You can build a lot of strong habits in three months but you need more time to really get the effects of it. G Fabbri: Definitely. You need you need time, practice, attention, intention. So you're doing the right thing. George: No. G Fabbri: And when you combine all these bits and pieces together, and you act from that place of real care and love for yourself and desire for doing whatever it is that you want to do in your life, all that coming together, that's how you craft this thing. And everything will shift once we start to put those things in play. George: Beautiful. And maybe as a last question, like... If you could set an intention or wish what someone takes away from reading your book, Atomic Awareness, what would you wish that somebody walks away with after they read this book? And also apply the exercises G Fabbri: Mm. George: and the beautiful practices. G Fabbri: Yeah, I I I so when it comes to the exercises, there's a like a little exercise after each chapter, which I thought would be a helpful way to integrate some of the stuff that we kind of talk about in the chapters. George: 100%. G Fabbri: Yeah, and there are many, there are many, so like, you know, we could have a massive list of great things that we could potentially do. George: Yeah. G Fabbri: and I think it's great to identify and do many different things and to try what you know what works in your George: Yeah. G Fabbri: own, especially with a coach, right? Someone that can say, this tr this particular practice would be good for you. But I think the main thing is to recognize whether you're living the life that you're intended to live. To find that whatever that is, identify it. We all have Have that knowledge within us. And it doesn't have to be some great or grand thing. It doesn't have to be the best tennis player or the biggest, you know, richest person in the block, whatever. It has to be the things that we feel that are important to us, our own values, our own intention. And then we put our attention into that, that'll be amazing. And then the way that we react based on our work. is gonna make a huge difference in our lives. and yeah. George: Beautiful. G Fabbri: Yeah. And I hope everyone at least tries in some way, shape, or form to meditate, to get some time, some inward time. It could be a simple thing like, you know, taking a breath or two. It could be, you know, working with because because when we meditate, we're working with our nervous system. The nervous system, of course, is talking to the brain, gives that brain space, you know, in your your vagal nerve theory. And then it's all of a sudden, higher functioning things just seem to happen. And it works whether we're in community with someone. with someone else or with with ourselves. That alignment is like so good, yeah. George: That's so true, Beautiful. And I also loved what you mentioned here, that it's not about becoming the biggest star in the world or the biggest businessman or building the biggest whatever, because I feel that sometimes the flavor in self-help that it's about is that G Fabbri: Mm. George: living your full potential means like winning a Grammy if you're musician or like doing the biggest G Fabbri: Yeah. George: show ever. And that's not necessarily true, right? It can be really just, it can be also something very small, or seemingly small, performing for your friends and family, or like writing music for your own enjoyment, or like playing on the local festival, or like things that really resonate with you, and where you also say like, this really fits into the life I build, and I want to build because... maybe part of this intention is also having family and then that would not be in alignment of like touring 10 months of the 10 months a year on the biggest stages of the world. G Fabbri: Or maybe it would. Yeah. George: Question mark, yeah. But that's where it's getting interesting, right? Like how could that maybe be together and how could that work? Is there a way of like aligning all of this? G Fabbri: Yeah. George: But yeah, we come back to that it's really individual. And as you also said, like, yeah, with a coach or a therapist, it can be really, helpful to reflect on and to find out what is truly in alignment with you. in this stage of your life. Beautiful. And if people want to find out more about you and also about the book, would you point them? G Fabbri: Place about the book is it's available on Amazon. my website is okay garryfabry dot com. and then you know you can connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram. So George: Wonderful. G Fabbri: any of those things. Yeah. George: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Gary, for taking the time and being on the podcast today. G Fabbri: Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, I really loved it and I think we could I could talk to you forever, right? We could jump onto masks different like subjects, but I really appreciate your having me. Thanks, George. George: Likewise. Yeah. Thank you.