Latest / The Director's Chair Network / Collateral
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- :02 [Music] 0:12 Heat. [Music] 0:17 Heat. [Music] 0:37 Good day and welcome to another episode of the Director's Chair Network podcast. 0:43 I'm your host Ryan and this is the season where we are covering Michael Man films and I have returning guest with me 0:50 today, Trucker Andy. Andy, how you doing? Hey, I'm doing great. Happy to be here. 0:55 I'm happy to have you here. Um I know we haven't met in real life. This is like our fourth or fifth or sixth time 1:00 recording together. I uh I know I might know you more than you know me because I listen to you I actually legit listen to 1:07 your shows of course on Who Are These Podcasts and I truly enjoy and I listen to and subscribe to your Patreon of the 1:14 All Apologies podcast. I enjoy the All Apologies podcast. Tell the folks uh what that one's about. 1:20 Thanks. Yeah, All Apologies is a a re It's not a reaction show. We we cover 1:25 the apology tours of celebrities or athletes. We have one I'm recording 1:32 about Shakari Richardson, the Olympian that beat up her boyfriend in the 1:37 airport. They just released the body cam footage of that. Oh, that's going to be something that we're 1:43 talking about very soon. So, when was that recent? Yeah, that was a couple of weeks ago, but the body cam footage just came out. 1:50 So, can you give me a quick I don't know if I heard this one. It's captured on security cam footage. 1:57 Her shoving and punching her boyfriend in the airport. We don't really know why. I'm sure she's not doing it for no 2:04 reason. But when Are you victim blaming? Yes, I am. She's not beating this guy up 2:12 for nothing. But when TSA sees you assaulting a person in the airport, they call the cops and 2:18 they don't like that kind of thing. Yeah. It's frowned upon. So, u but yeah, a lot of things like uh 2:26 the diddy apology for kicking his girlfriend in the head, you know, we cover all those kind of topics. 2:32 Did she have it coming too or? Yeah, it turns out all these people 2:38 deserved it. That's right. All the beatings you see on camera, folks. If you see someone getting beaten, chances are they 2:44 deserved it. You heard it here, folks. Yeah. Uh, you know, I enjoy your podcast. What I like about what you guys do is you you 2:50 bring up um you bring up characters. I I shouldn't know these people exist. Like 2:55 in any good life, I shouldn't know any one of these people exist. Like that uh who's that guy with the self-help guru? 3:02 Yes. Owen Cook. Owen Cook. I knew his last name was Cook. I was going to say Simon Cook for some reason. Yeah. Uh, I don't know why 3:09 I know he Oh, I know he exists only because of your show, but it's a fascinating study of people who are grifters. And you do a great job 3:15 breaking down uh his grifting. And what I like what you guys do, too. It's a bit of a cheat code, but I'll allow it. If 3:22 the celebrity or personality doesn't have an apology tour, so to speak, you 3:27 then say they should apologize. I like that workound. You're exposing these people who should apologize, which I 3:33 like. I I'll demand an apology. They demand an apology. Yeah. All right. Uh, now you have not covered yet a 3:40 Michael Man film yet, have you? I haven't discussed. No, we haven't 3:45 covered a Michael Man film yet. That's right. So, your last one was Remind Me, the one that we did together. 3:52 I think we've only done Worst of the Best together. Yeah. Okay. That's what That's what it was. I was like I was racking my brain 3:57 today. You're right. I think K is the only one that's come on twice. Yeah, we did. We We're talking about Ghost a couple of times. 4:04 That's right. Yeah, you talked about ghost and you talked about Van Halen with me on Worst of the Best podcast. I on your all apologies. I 4:11 talked Mel Gibson and uh Marilyn Manson. I swear you on for a light-hearted one 4:18 one of these days. Do you have uh the next Well, you invited me on for September. And do you have an idea of who it might be or any 4:24 or just not yet? Not exactly. I I I like to see if things 4:29 pop up and then we can cover something that happened today. That's what we're gonna do. But 4:36 all right, we'll come up with something uh divisive and hard to talk about since you're coming on. 4:41 Yeah, I was going to say I I I can't wait till someone comments on the Gaza Gaza issue or something. I love to come on something light and easy. That'd be 4:48 great to share my opinions on that. To draw a line in the sand and take sides. 4:54 Yeah, you take one side, I'll take the other. All right. No, this is fantastic. Andya, thanks for coming on for covering 4:59 Collateral 2004. This movie came out. Can you believe this is one of these movies where I feel like it's a new It's 5:06 a new film. It doesn't feel like an old This movie is 21 years old. Yeah, it's 5:11 hard to believe that I I and I picked this one because I knew that I had seen 5:17 it before, so I knew I would have I I could talk I could speak to it a little bit better. And uh I had to wait a long 5:24 time. We been planning this for a long time because of my late in the catalog. Um, but 5:30 this one it's star-studded and it's got it's got uh 5:37 its own personal maybe it's got multiple personalities as if we're as we get into it. I'll 5:43 Yeah. And these uh guys at the height of their powers, 5:49 Michael Man and Tom Cruz. Let's talk about Michael Man a little bit first. And do you have a fandom or 5:57 are do you recognize him as a director? Are you familiar with the movies he's directed? I would say that he's not someone that 6:06 is at the forefront of my thoughts when I think about directors the way that 6:13 I'll everybody runs to Scorsesei or uh Tarantino like guys like that. I don't 6:20 have a very uh specific knowledge of Michael Man except for Heat and 6:28 right Thief. I'm aware of these movies, but I'd be hardressed to talk about a lot of 6:34 other ones and that's kind of why I picked Heat got snatched up immediately. That was probably the first one whoever 6:40 when he decided to do this show, that was the first one somebody picked and uh I landed on this one because I I just 6:47 knew that I had seen it. Now, here's some of the films that he did before Heat. And you sorry, before uh Clado, 6:54 you let me know if you've seen it or not. So, Thief, The Keep, no. 6:59 Manhunter, yes. The Last Moheakans. Oh, yes. 7:04 Heat, of course. The Insider? No. Okay. Ali, 7:09 no. And then now we're on Collateral. So, there you go. Okay. So, a little bit of hit and miss. Uh, 7:14 yeah. The big ones, of course, heat and Lasicans is pretty common. a lot of people those were his big you know very big films 7:20 didn't realize that he had done class of the Moheagans that's definitely a significant like that's outstanding film 7:27 in that that filmography I and like I said I just I don't connect those dots that that's a 7:32 Michael man film no you well you wouldn't it's funny if if I told you those films they all kind of have an aesthetic last is this 7:40 wonderful outlier but it uh we we caught some of the Michael manisms within the film but no it's a bit of an outlier 7:46 compared other ones because he has this very as Collateral shows us very you know the the city the sleekness the 7:52 coolness the suits the styles and yeah Lastigans is none of those things like 7:57 it's a very different I'll tell you every once in a while I'll just go to the last eight minutes of 8:04 Last of the Moheagans and just rewatch the end of that you because it's such a great finale of a movie it's kind of a 8:11 slow pace not not I mean we're not here to talk about Last of the Moheagans oh please I love it you could talk this 8:17 still a Michael man season. We can talk about it. I mean, obvious 8:22 performances, Daniel D. Lewis and the the uh the rest of the cast, this 8:28 movie's got a vibe. That movie has a vibe. And I should have had you on for last I should have had you on for Last Moans. 8:34 My co-host was less than thrilled about the that movie at the time. What? 8:39 She's listen she's listening now. She knows. Well, I was really hoping uh it's Katie and I was really hoping. Look, I I 8:47 admit, you know, she's a gal and she's a lovely gal. I was like, "Oh, she's she's never seen the movie before. Oh, she's going to be so moved by this film." She 8:54 was kind of blasze about it. I'm like, "What?" And yeah, so maybe maybe it's just men. Only men have feelings on this 9:00 film. I think it's a man film in a weird way. Like we every man I know who sees this film gets really choked up at the 9:05 end. I would say I would say most of his films are dude centric. They are. It's true. 9:13 Uh, Collateral, do you recall when you saw it for the first time before watching it again? And did you see it before watching again for prep for the 9:20 show? I used to work at a video store, so I remember when this was released on DVD 9:27 and I saw it probably as soon as it was I didn't see it in theaters, but I saw it probably as soon as it came out on 9:34 DVD. So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I 99% I saw this in 9:39 theaters. I'm a huge Tom Cruz fan and at this point I was already a Michael man Mark. I had seen all the movies previous 9:46 that we just talked about. I started following his career. So I was pretty I I don't recall exactly how I felt 21 9:52 years ago, but if I were, you know, I think I know myself a little bit. So I assume when I saw the trailer for this 9:57 that Cruz and Man had teamed up, I was probably pretty stoked. Can I can I ask your uh how why you 10:04 decided to do Michael Man in this series? Absolutely. No, absolutely. I appreciate 10:10 the question. Thank you. Uh well, I started this director's trade network think it was just going to be one season when I did Edward Wick films. At that 10:17 time, I thought I'm just going to do a miniseries and because Edwick was a director that I fell in love with 10:23 because Legends of the Fall, I love that film, the aesthetics, and I started like liking what directors did. So some of 10:30 these 90s films, 80s films, I like the outliers of directors, not the 10:35 Spielbergs, you know, I or those type of big names. Even though I like those films, I kind of like the guys that 10:40 never quite get their due. And Edwick was one where, you know, he did Glory and he did Legend of the Fall. 10:46 And I was like, I really like what what this guy does. But and when I was done with Edwick, I was like, I kind of like doing this. I 10:52 kind of like talking about filmographies as a complete like their whole library. So that's why I started season two, so 10:58 to speak, or another season of Michael Man. And there's other other directors now on the network uh hosted by other 11:04 hosts, which is great that the network's growing that way. At the time of this recording, Andy, I don't mind sharing. So at the time of this recording, we 11:10 have three new hosts that are coming on. We have uh two two guys named Scott. One 11:15 is covering David Fincher, the other one is covering Sam Peek and Paw Films. Then we have another gentleman coming on 11:21 named Seco and he is covering Paul Verhovven films. So, our network's really growing with different This is 11:26 what I mean. These are the directors that everyone talks about Spielberg, everyone talks about Christopher Nolan 11:32 and Tarantino and rightfully so, but I like that we give these other guys kind of a crack at the pod and it's kind of 11:38 fun to go through their filmography. So, to answer your question, same idea around the same time, Last Mexicans, 11:43 early 90s. I love that style film, the big sweeping epics. I miss those films from the 90s, you know what I mean? The big sweeping epics. 11:49 Yeah. So, same idea. I was like, "Oh, this guy's cool. Who's Michael Man? What else has he done?" And that's how we ended up 11:54 here. Sort of the same idea idea of why I picked man as I did Zwick was just 12:01 interesting careers. I call Edgar, right? Oh, you want to come on the network. 12:07 Don't you tease me. I'll take you. I'll take it. We'll talk after. If you really are serious, I'd love it. Yeah. 12:14 Okay. All right. So, Claro 2004 directed by man. Now, this uh dear listeners, if 12:20 you're tracking, this was the first film, if I remember, or not if I remember, if I have my information correctly, it's the first one that he 12:27 didn't either really adapt from a true story and or a book. This was wholly written by somebody else. 12:34 Mhm. So, he all the other films, I think right from Thief onward, I think Thief was based on a novel, for example, and 12:40 the Keep uh Manhunter was Yeah. based on a novel as well. Last weekend was based on a novel. Heat was something he wrote 12:47 that was his writing. Uh the insider was based on a true story. Ali true story. So collateral was written by uh somebody 12:54 else. And this gentleman's name was drum roll please. Uh Steuart Bey. Have you 13:00 ever heard of this guy? I haven't. But that's interesting that you bring that up because I would say 13:06 that the like the weakness of this film lies in the writing. 13:12 Interesting. Okay. Are you trying to tell me the same guy that wrote GI Joe: The Rise of Cobra? 13:19 [Laughter] That now makes a lot more sense. Yeah. Uh the next film that he wrote was 13:25 Derailed. Come on. Starring uh Clive Ow and Jennifer Anderson. Come on. 13:30 Oh yeah. Okay. Uh yeah, he those those are some of the films he wrote. Or give me an example 13:36 what you thought was like a little bit of a cringe part of the story that he might have written. Um, I suppose 13:42 towards the third around the third act, maybe the beginning of the third act, 13:48 things of far-fetched things start happening, like even more far-fetched than the the 13:55 original concept of what's happening in the movie, but it just gets a little 14:02 even more far-fetched. It didn't need this in the movie kind of. 14:07 No, I agree. I think the third act is the weaker of the three acts. If you want to divide up in thirds, I think the 14:12 whole everything coming together as you would think would happen in a movie or story. 14:19 I was almost indifferent to anyone's plight at the end, which isn't a good sign. There's a beat in the in the first 14:26 act where they get stopped by the cops and it's and you think it's going to be all over or Tom Cruz is going to shoot 14:33 the cops and the whole uh plot threat is going to unravel. 14:39 Hey, is this blood up here on your windshield? Yeah. Uh yeah. Uh I hit a deer. 14:48 You hit a deer? Yeah. over on the uh I was on slo 14:53 a south central deer. Yeah, they out there. They uh it ran 14:58 right in front of the car and I couldn't avoid it. Why you still carrying a passenger? 15:04 I'm on the way to the depot and he's I could just drop him. This drop is on my way. Yeah, but your cab's unsafe to drive and 15:10 we have to impound it. So, we got to do a vehicle inventory before the tow truck gets here. So, pop the trunk and step 15:15 out the vehicle. Sir, I'm sorry, but you have to call another cab. Is that really necessary, officer? I'm just a half a 15:20 mile from here. Yes, sir. I'm afraid it is. Please step out the vehicle. You, too. Come on. 15:25 That truck can't go inside. You know what, man? It's been a long night. Uh, plus the barn is right up 15:31 there. You know, just give me a break. It's my first fail. Get out the cab. Open the trunk. Come on. 15:40 Step out. You two, sir. Please. Park division dispatch shots fired at 15:46 83rd. All available precinct 26 units respond. 15:51 Hey partner, we got to roll. Roger. Go straight to the garage. Have a nice night, sir. 16:01 And how many times do I have to see in a movie where they the cops get called away on something more important? It 16:07 it's cliche. I guess they're just short they're short manned. They got they don't have enough 16:14 cops. It's like, "Oh crap, I am solving a a robbery, but someone just got 16:19 murdered." All right, guys. Sorry. I got to go. I know. I do have a friend that's a police officer. I should ask him how many times you've been called away in 16:24 the middle of something because something else something bigger is happening, right? Yeah. And it's just how many 16:30 times does that do I need to see that happen in the movie? It's uh so I I found that to be and not whatever. It's 16:39 just like, okay, lucky me, the movie gets to continue. you you knew that something was gonna keep the movie 16:46 going, but then I guess I found the whole scene. I really loved a lot of the 16:52 cameos. We get Jason Stathithm right up front and that was delightful. And he's 17:02 you okay? Yeah, I'm fine, mate. Don't worry about it. You all right? 17:08 Enjoy your life. Blink and you missed him. He's out of the movie again. I saw a fan theory and 17:15 I I am DVD that that's the his character from the transporter delivering that 17:21 bag. Do we even know what was in the bag? Oh, yeah. It was the hits. It was the contract. Is that what it's just the 17:26 hits themselves? Yeah, it's all the profiles for the people that he's But why I know it's a bit of a trope, I 17:32 guess. Again, we're talking about tropes. The idea that they had to It's if you Okay. Okay. Let's say you and I 17:37 are at an airport, right? Yeah. We're both in the lobby. I can literally go up to you and say, "Here, Andy. 17:43 Here's a bag. Take it." Okay, cool. Thank. Nobody would even bat an eye if I 17:48 handed you a backpack. In fact, we don't even have to do it at the airport. We could do it at the parking lot, which a little bit like I I'm car pooling with 17:56 you. I can literally drop you off at the airport. I'm your Uber ride and just 18:01 take the luggage out of the back of the truck that I left for you. The idea that they had to do a bag switch, identical 18:06 bag switch in the airport. What was the reason for that? just to have Jason Stathithm in the movie. 18:12 Yep. But we did see we did see Stathithm and I hadn't seen this movie since 21 years 18:17 ago. So I had wholly forgotten that Stathithm was in it and I guess for that reason because he was not in it again. 18:23 So I don't know if he was just in the area. Um just to have fun. What do you think? Just just a simple fun cameo 18:30 maybe? I I don't think that his career was then what it is now for 18:36 No, but it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. Yeah, he was in Snatch or No. Yeah, he did uh he did Snatch, 18:42 Locktock, Snatch, Ghost on Mars, the one transporter, Italian job. So, he's kind 18:48 of Okay. So, he was he had his own leading 18:54 vehicles that Yeah, he didn't need to. He probably just wanted to work with Michael Man and Tom, 19:00 I think. So, I you know what he got to swap spit with Tom. I don't think they 19:05 ever worked together again. So this is their chance that like he got to share a screen with Tom. That's not a bad go. 19:11 Yeah. Yeah. So do you have any fandom of Jason? Do you like his films or in general or 19:16 Yeah. I I appreciate what he does. It's not all solid gold. He's kind of in a 19:22 Liam Niss category. Yeah. He's basically Liam Niss minus 15 19:28 years. He's getting there himself. He's 55 almost 60 now. Yeah. Gives us old guys hope. 19:33 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At least I still have my hair. I can always say that. I have 19:39 hair. Jason doesn't have hair. Uh I'd forgotten this individual was in this film again till I saw it and he had 19:45 a bigger role. Javier Bar. Damn. Yeah. And that was kind of what I was 19:50 referring to at the top about scenes that I didn't enjoy in the movie. Does 19:57 that tell me tell me why. Well, I did like like you I forgot that 20:03 he was playing that role. I didn't realize that was him again. I He wasn't 20:09 really on anyone's radar, at least not mine until No Country for Old Men. 20:14 Sure. So to rewind to this and realize that that's him in the movie was exciting for 20:23 me when when I saw the scene but then the that whole dialogue the his 20:30 monologue about Santa Claus and then sorry you're right it's the Santa Cl sorry go 20:36 on yeah sorry does not put Humpty Dante back together 20:42 again do you believe in Humpty Don't you? No. Do you believe in Santa Claus? 20:49 No. Nor do I. Nor do I. But my children do. They are still small. But do you 20:55 know who they like even better than Santa Claus? His helper. Pedro Negro. Black Peter. 21:04 There's an old Mexican tale that tells of how Santa Claus got so very busy looking out for the good 21:11 children that he had to hire some help to look out for the bad children. So he hired Pedro. And Santa Claus gave him a 21:19 list with all the names of all the bad children. And Pedro would come every night to 21:24 check them out. And the people, the little kids that were misbehaving, they were not saying their prayers, Pedro 21:32 would leave a little toy donkey on their windows, a little border, and he would 21:38 come back and if the children were still misbehaving, Pedro would take them away and nobody would ever see them again. 21:45 Now, if I am being Santa Claus and you are Pedro, how do you think jolly old Santa 21:53 Claus be? If one day Pedro came into his office and said, "I lost the list." 21:58 How [ __ ] furious do you think he would get? Tell me, Vincent, 22:04 tell me what you think. I mean, you're you're right to laugh. It was laughably ridiculous. And then that 22:13 goes into Jamie Fox turning the tables and taking on this 22:20 the demeanor of Tom Cruz. I think you should tell the guy 22:26 behind me to put that gun down. 22:31 What did you say? I said I think you should tell the guy behind me to put his gun away before I 22:37 take it and beat his [ __ ] ass to death with gangsters is buying this. It I just I 22:44 didn't I didn't buy it, you know. So I don't know who was buying it, but they did because it was written that way. 22:52 Yeah. So regarding that bar scene, I think I agree with you. That was the first, it was during these moments of the film 22:58 where I started to see a bit of a decline in the film and of the story, not of the acting, not of the Here's the 23:05 thing with Michael Man, and I've noticed with now with all these films that I've watched of his, the ones that are even a 23:10 little bit weaker, it always looks good. Like the film looks good. It's a great 23:17 shot, great lighting, the aesthetics are cool, the shots are cool. He it's always it's like uh working with someone who 23:23 looks cool and sounds cool but they might be bad at their job like he just he he just looks the movies look cool 23:30 and regarding this scene the Santa Claus talk I admit that was really why are we 23:36 you know was very weirdly done just for him to say at the end like yeah when you're when this 23:42 character is done doing his job kill him uh the the old the guy's out of earshot 23:47 and I want my henchman to kill the guy it's like Okay, you talk about we've been here before. This is this again 23:53 isn't Michael Mann's writing, but he's directing this. Of course, for context though, Javar Bardm, he spent months 23:58 learning English for his two-day role as Felix. So, I guess he was only on set for two days 24:04 and his accent was It's not his fault, but it was very thick. I I watched the movie with captions and that helped me a 24:11 lot. Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't know if you did or didn't, but I didn't. But you you know that's worth 24:18 mentioning that this is one of those films that and it's not something I particularly 24:24 enjoy but there there was part of it that I felt it was necessary when a lot 24:30 of the dial it's one of those movies where you're always riding the the volume you it's the sound design of the 24:37 gunfire in this movie is amazing and I and I think that's intentional. It's supposed to be jarring. It's supposed to 24:45 uh you know, gunplay is supposed to be 24:50 chaotic and and violent and it that's baked into a lot of the scenes in this 24:56 movie. But when it's 11:30 at night and my wife's trying to sleep, I got I got to turn the volume 25:02 down when the guns are so [ __ ] loud. So then it goes into the scene with 25:08 Javier and I can't hear a word he's saying. So then you crank it back all all the way back up and now it's a 25:14 shootout and you got to turn the volume back down. Um, but I did like that the intention of 25:21 the gun fire being so loud because it's supposed to be uh 25:28 disturbing and shocking to basically everybody around you and except for Tom 25:33 Cruz who just seemingly, you know, that's his life and he's comfortable 25:39 doing that. And that's that's another thing that is so cool. I heard I don't know if you how much research you did 25:45 about this, but I heard something about this film with Tom Cruz. The way that he draws his gun several times. He pulls 25:52 his gun on Jamie Fox at one point. He pulls his gun on the the white supremacists that mug Jamie Fox. They 25:59 use the footage of this movie of Tom Cruz drawing his weapon in training 26:05 videos like for like undercover cops that wear awesome their gun to the back like that. it. 26:11 It's so smooth. It's so fast. And I I you know how Tom Cruz does his own 26:17 stunts. Love hearing that kind of stuff because Yeah, I can't wait to talk about Tom. He's he's one of my favorites. I love 26:23 him. Uh and I I also wanted to mention since you said it looks good and I know it's 26:29 intentional. The graininess of I mean it's supposed to be a gritty LA 26:36 thriller or sus. There's supposed to be tension, but that grainy, grittiness of it, it kind of looks like a pro just 26:46 shot a movie on his iPhone 5. Yes. And I I know that's intentional and 26:52 it does look great, but it does look kind of washed out and uh flat when I 27:01 maybe I'm not describing it properly, but it it looks like 27:07 old, you know, or degraded. So it clatter was a pioneer film for its 27:14 time for digital video. Okay. So it purposely used the digital video for the low light scenes and only 27:22 20% of the film was shot on sorry of the movie was shot on film and that was during the club fever sequence. The rest 27:28 of it was all digital. So I remember when this film did come out there was quite a hubbub at the time that Michael 27:34 met did you hear what he's doing? He's using digital cameras and not film. And people were kind of they in fact this 27:41 the original cinematographer Paul Cameron he left three weeks into filming 27:46 because of that creative difference. He was like you can't do this. You can't use digital film. How dare. And he left. 27:53 Bob Dylan's gone electric. Yeah. Well that's that's kind of what it was. Yeah. But if any director would be the 27:59 first one to sort of go like, you know what, I kind of like this digital look would be Michael Man because it just 28:04 fits that aesthetic. Anyways, yeah, digital film was used for 80% of of the movie. Sorry, digital 28:10 camera was used uh for 80% of the film. So, that's kind of cool. That makes sense that the one scene that 28:16 they shot on film is the club scene because right there are is a tonal shift and yes, 28:23 the soundtrack reflects it a lot. That's something I picked up on while I was watching it. In the beginning, Jamie Fox 28:29 is working by night and lonely and maybe 28:35 he's an underachieving, overqualified cab driver and it's all this spacey 28:41 jazz, real laidback, slow jazz. Yeah. And then as 28:47 the movie picks up, it becomes a more of a fast-paced, chaotic jazz. And that's 28:53 kind of supposed to reflect the chaos of the city, the chaos of the situation. Tom Cruz obviously be you 29:00 comes out of the closet as a jazz fan. I thought you were going to say something else. Sorry. 29:06 One of the many closets and he's coming out. But um how dare you? Yeah. So then and then when they 29:13 introduce uh uh Mark Cholo Ruffalo, my wife didn't even recognize him where I'm 29:19 sitting there watching and I go, "Oh, I didn't I forgot Mark Ruffalo's in this." So where I go, it's the only guy on the 29:26 screen. She's and she couldn't recognize him at all. But when he shows up, it's that 29:31 four on the floor rock uh theme or whatever that is in the soundtrack. And 29:38 just to keep going with the the pacing of the or not the pacing, the the 29:44 thematic changes in the soundtrack. So that when they go to the Javier Bardm 29:50 club and now Jamie Fox is basically not his character 29:55 anymore. He's somebody else. And the soundtrack becomes something altogether different. It becomes more 30:01 mariachi, a lot more drums, and it's a total tonal shift. And then from there 30:09 once all the police and the gangsters everything kind of starts converging 30:16 then it goes into actual soundtracks. Now we have 30:21 audio slave and Paul Oakenfold like actual songs are in the movie and it's not just this jazzy soundtrack that's 30:28 been that that's been set up from the beginning. So, it's very intentional 30:35 that way, the soundtrack and it plays into the beats of the movie like that. 30:40 Oh. Oh, great. Great insight on the music. And you're a music guy, so that's good. It's only natural that you would 30:45 be the the one to talk about music. That is your It's in your blood, Andy. The music. Uh 30:51 the speaking of the music, Audio Slaves, Shout Out on the Sun. I for I again I for I keep saying everything that in 30:57 this film I had forgotten. The only thing I didn't forget was the basic plot that Tom Cruz plays a hitman and uses 31:03 Jamie Fox to Uber him around LA as he kills people like that. That's all I 31:08 remember. So when the Shadow of the Sun came on by audio slave, Michael Man selected that scene for the coyote. 31:14 Remember the scene of the coyote crossing the road? This is a reference to Navajo omen of danger. Then Michael 31:21 Man used the autoslave shadow in the sun on route to the club fever. But anyways, when I heard that song, I just like, 31:27 man, rest in peace to Chris. And what a great well a great song. Audio Slave was 31:33 a great super group. What an incredible super group. I I thought unforgettable voice. 31:38 Yeah, absolutely. Rest in peace. Okay. Oh, I wanted to mention the uh two degrees of Cruz here. 31:45 Javar Bardm, he's been married to Penelby Cruz since 2010. 31:52 And don't forget though, before Harvey got his uh time with Penelopey, Cruz 31:59 did. Tom Cruz dated her for a spell. Oh, Cruz and Cruz. She wouldn't even really change the pronunciation of her 32:07 last name if they had stayed together. That's right. How would you combine their name then? Uh, Penella Tom or Tom 32:13 Lopee. Tom Lope Cruz. I don't even know. They dated. They 32:18 never went full marriage or anything. I think she didn't got on board with the Scientology. But here's the funny thing. 32:24 I wonder what Penelpy and Javier have talked about regarding Tom since because you know they're a married couple. 32:30 They've talked about Tom. Oh, sure. Yeah. Plenty to talk about. But 32:36 as long as it's not during their love making, I'm sure it's okay. Okay. All right. Uh, speaking of difficult 32:41 [ __ ] I like that uh Jada Pinket Smith was type cast as a a first class 32:47 [ __ ] in the beginning. Like just after Stithm, then Jada Pinket shows up 32:53 and see another thing. What's your thoughts on her? 33:00 It's more about him and why she would be interested in him and as a cab driver 33:08 and his just philosophical guy that's content to do a menial job 33:16 that he's overqualified for. It's like a the antithesis of a hooker with a heart 33:23 of gold kind of stereotype of a guy in a movie. And I just don't know why she 33:30 would give a [ __ ] about him and why they would have some connection that would 33:36 mean be mean for him to go put his life in jeopardy at the end for her. You 33:42 know, it's because it's a movie, Andy. 33:47 But no, and I don't mean to be glib about it. It's just you're right. There's no re there's no world where in 33:54 this movie objectively speaking I mean even now even with her balding head I 34:00 mean she she aesthetically she's a pretty she's a she's an attractive woman and 34:06 back then yeah and especially back then so in 2004 21 years ago when she was uh 31 she was 31 34:13 32 in this film so you know she's gorgeous long hair and I thought the 34:19 same thing she's was fake hair, fake long hair. Uh she I mean she and 34:26 and she's a good actress. Here's the thing. In this role, you can see Oh, she's a good actress. Like with the right script or the right director and 34:32 the right role, she's fine. And I talked about her briefly on the previous 34:37 episode, Ali, cuz she was an Ali playing one of uh Muhammad Ali's 34:43 uh first wives, ironically played by Will Smith playing Ali. So they played 34:48 husband and wife in that film. And here she is in the next film with Michael Man. So obviously Michael Man and her 34:54 got along. So she comes along for this film and she had a big much bigger role cuz she's right there at the beginning of the film and again I forgot she was 35:00 at the end. And Jamie Fox's character saving her at the end. That's when Yeah, I agree. That 35:07 really went downhill for me. The fact that she's like, "Oh, you're calling me late. I left you my number, but I didn't think you'd call me this soon and this 35:14 late." And he's like, "You have to hide." US attorney's office. Annie. 35:20 Yes, it's Max. Max the cab driver. Listen to me. All right. A guy named 35:25 Max. Listen to me, Annie. Um, it's kind of a strange time to be 35:31 calling. Listen. Listen to Eddie. There's a man named Vincent. He's coming to kill you. 35:37 He's what? Kill you. He's coming to kill you. Okay. He was he was scoping out the building when I dropped you off. How 35:43 happened? Max, if this is supposed to be some type of joke, it's not funny. It's not a joke. Listen to me, Annie. Listen to me please. Felix hired him. 35:51 Okay. Or people that that that Felix worked for. Felix Reyes Terra. How do you know about 35:56 my case? I don't understand what's going on. All I know is that he's already killed witnesses. He's coming to kill you when 36:03 I dropped you off and I don't know how it happened, but he ended up in my cab. There's a killer coming after you. Like 36:09 what would you say? You'd be like, "Oh, no. Really?" 36:14 And the killer is mean Yeah. Yeah, you're not. She wouldn't be 36:19 buying it. It's how what are the odds? What are the odds? What? Yeah. What are the odds that you meet somebody and 12 36:27 hours later they're calling you saying there's a hitman coming after you? Like what? And you trusting that person. Yeah. 36:33 Yeah. It's it gets a little um sticky or 36:40 disappointing at the in the end in a lot of ways, but that doesn't really change 36:47 it. It doesn't become out of it doesn't make me want to stop the movie. 36:52 No, no, no, no. It's just I I just feel like they didn't stick the 36:57 landing in it with a lot of these beats at the end. 37:03 If I was to write for the writer or read between the lines for the screenplay, I would say she's okay. She's a powerful 37:09 lawyer. That's part of the hit list. That's why she's Okay, spoiler alert. She's on the hit list. Tom Cruz is going 37:15 to kill her and Will Smith for not becoming Scientologist. So, she's on the hit list. What are the chances that 37:23 Jamie Fox's character takes somebody on a hit list to her place of residence and 37:29 then picks up the hitman at the same night? What are the chances of that? I I guess it's be it's to ratchet up the 37:36 stakes. It's to get him invested in basically changing 37:43 what he wants out of life because that's sort of a the theme of his character the 37:49 whole time. He's got these aspirations, right, and these goals that he is 37:57 not focusing on and the like I said, he's a he's an 38:02 underachieving uh overqualified cab driver. And this 38:07 that that being injected into the last 15 or 20 38:14 minutes of the movie give is the catalyst for him to become more assertive with his life, I 38:21 guess. But it's the it's done in the most hamfisted way from a writing 38:26 standpoint, right? Well, let's talk briefly about that then about Jamie Fox and this uh in 38:32 this character before we talk about him as an actor. Uh the idea of his character I think is the idea he's been 38:38 doing cabs now for 12 odd years but we don't know that till he meets Tom Cruz's 38:43 character but he tells Jada Pinka Smith this is the idea we're seeing with the like as he's talking to Jada we're 38:49 seeing him for the first time as a character cuz he's introducing himself to a stranger the passenger which is a 38:57 surrogate for us the viewer to see him as a character. Take pride in being good at what you do. 39:03 What th this? Oh, this is uh this is No, this is part time. I guess it's a filling job. Pay the bill. But I will be 39:10 the best at what I do. But that's something else. 39:17 What else? Just shaping up some things. Like, 39:24 tell me. Limo company. I'm putting together island limos. Should be like an island on wheels. be a cool room like a club 39:31 experience. When you get to the airport, you're not going to want to get out of my limo. So, I do this part time to get my bins 39:37 off leases, staff up, get the right client list, you know, things like that. So, we're seeing him talk about his 39:44 limousine company. We see him talking about this is temporary. We see that he's he looks at this island, his own 39:50 Epcene island picture that he looks at to get away. You know, that might have been Epste's island for all we know. That could have 39:56 been what do you call the what do you call it when they program viewers to start thinking about these things? Uh 40:02 subliminal advertising. Yeah. Like the the the public will be aware of this island shortly. 40:07 But all that being said, we're see so we believe him. So we're Jada Pika Smith. 40:12 We're the passengers in the cab at the beginning. We're like, "Oh, this guy's got a heart of gold. He's this is temporary. He's going to build a limo 40:19 company. He's like, you know, I might be taking you to the party, but the party's like you're not going to want to leave 40:24 my limo." like the whole idea that the hey this is where it's at. We might be at the Super Bowl, but we're going to stay inside the limo. This is how he 40:31 present. So, you can tell he's a he believes in this. He's a salesman, that type. And I don't know if Jada's 40:38 character believed him that he was capable of this or if she I hate to say pity party or 40:45 just thought it was adorable or sweet that he felt this way despite that maybe 40:50 she knew this is a pipe dream cuz she gives the number her number not 40:56 half-heartedly but she almost leaves and but she comes back and says you know if if you ever want to talk or hang out or 41:03 whatever it was whatever the exact dialogue the idea being We I'm giving you my number so you can contact me and I won't be a stranger like before you 41:10 know social media and stuff. So here's my number. Hey, I don't know uh in case you ever want to 41:17 investigate a Fortune 500 company or 41:23 argue cap routes. What's your overall fandom regarding Jim 41:28 Fox as an actor and how did you think he did as this character despite the maybe the writing foilables in the film? How 41:34 do you think he did as a as the acting in this movie? My point of reference for the longest 41:41 time was Jamie Fox from In Living Color, which was 41:47 cartoonish and ridiculous and it didn't command a lot of respect from me who 41:55 watched him come up from those roots. So when he started 42:02 pivoting into action or drama, 42:08 Yeah. it was a very hard cell for me. And to 42:14 this day, when I see Jamie Fox on a on a marquee or in a cast, I it doesn't get 42:22 me excited. But weirdly enough, I started respect. This is a very weird 42:29 way to say I JB Fox really earned my respect from working with Kanye West 42:35 because when Jop Out came out and Ray was a thing and now he's got these 42:41 musical chops and Kanye is putting him on uh slow jams. 42:47 Not not to bring it all back to my music informing my opinion, but 42:52 that's fine. That's fine. and he when he started coming to the table as Ray 42:57 Charles and proving that he was a double or triple 43:02 threat to a certain degree, then I started to pay attention to him more. But then he did Spider-Man uh Amazing 43:10 Spider-Man 2 where he's electro and lost all how dare you. That was probably the one of his best roles ever. 43:15 Yeah. Right. So So he's very hit or miss for me. And I would say that in this 43:21 movie it's a hit. Even though I feel like the way his character written is is 43:27 written is a bit of a miss. The his performance is a hit. This was one of his 43:34 uh first uh films regarding like good good drama, good acting. His first one, believe it 43:40 or not, was the other Michael Man film again Ali. So we got some carryovers here right away from Ali to the next 43:46 film Collateral for Michael Mann anyways where yeah Jada Pinka Smith Ali Collateral Jamie Fox Ali Collateral and 43:53 I love that. I love it when directors like hey I kind of like working with you. I I had a good time. Do you want to So it's a good sign too that they're 43:59 probably good to work with. So despite Jada maybe being a little bit especially in her later years she probably wasn't 44:05 quite like this and I I don't know. I'm just guessing. I didn't hear about anything, but you know, she might be 44:10 good to work with because you have these directors, big-time directors working with her that seem to like her. Yeah. He 44:15 didn't really do any big drama films until Ali. He wasn't in any given Sunday with Oliver Stone in 99, but he's 44:23 playing still a football player. I can't remember exact his role in that film, but he maybe he was a bravado and you 44:28 know that kind of mixes with comedy a little bit where you could be like, "Look at me, I'm funny, but cool, you know." Yeah. 44:33 And but Ali was a wholly different character. Uh if you haven't seen that film in a while, Andy, I recommend 44:39 seeing it again. It's actually he did a great job playing a real life character in Ali's life who was a drug addict. Uh 44:45 he was he famously sold Ali's heavyweight belt for heroin. And so yeah, he did a great job playing 44:52 a drug user trying to be, you know, trying to stay in Ali's circle. And then so Michael Mann's like, "Hey, cool. Uh 44:59 let's channel that and have you become this OCD cab driver who has a crazy 45:04 night with Tom." And then he gets hired again with Michael Man for his next film, Miami Vice. 45:10 Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. Well, good on Michael Man for recognizing potential in 45:17 these cartoonish personalities. I felt I feel the same way that I was describing Jamie Fox. It's a like putting Will 45:25 Smith in a dramatic role takes a certain amount of balls from Michael Yeah. Ali. Ali with Michael Man. Yeah. 45:31 Right. So you're to to watch Wild Wild West and go I I need that guy to play 45:38 Muhammad Ali. Okay. How dare you? How dare you? 45:44 You're Wild Wild West Defender. No, but I did see it the theaters. I was one of I was one of the people that saw in the 45:50 theaters. I saw it. Yeah, I saw it in the theaters back when movies were just you just saw movies in the theaters because there's just not to say there 45:56 was nothing else to do. That's what you did. Just oh, let's go see Wild West. Why? There's a good chance I saw that in the theaters. 46:01 Oh, probably. He probably blocked black. Not in black. Convinced me. Yeah, 46:07 I saw all three in the theaters. Yeah. Uh, okay. So, now before we get to Tom, 46:13 let's talk about a couple the other mini roles are played by bigger names. We had, you mentioned already, Mark Ruffalo 46:19 playing the undercover cop. Now, I'll say this because this is one of Mark's earlier roles. Again, this was 21 years ago. I dare say when I saw this in 2004, 46:26 I'm like, "Oh, cool. Mark Ruffalo's in this film." I I didn't know him. I didn't know him from Adam. Right. Right. 46:32 And so when I saw him right away with the goatee and the hair, I'm like, "Oh, it's Mark Ruffalo." And then he starts 46:37 talking now, as someone who knows who Mark is, his ethnicity. I thought I was 46:43 like, "Oh my gosh, are they are they making Mark Latino?" Because this is an early 46:49 role. So I thought, did Mark just pretend to be Latino or Mexican? Whatever. I don't quite know what 46:55 nationality he's going for. Puerto Rican. Whatever. He didn't. They didn't say I am making this accent, but he's 47:00 talking with a Latino type accent. And I'm like, oh no, they're they're culturally appropriating him as a 47:06 character. Couldn't they find like John Lewismo for this role? Like, 47:15 so anyways, uh it turns out folks, spoiler alert, he's an undercover cop. 47:21 This was a role he was playing the man who's playing the man who's playing the man in this in this movie. So he was 47:26 actually not he was in a good good oldfashioned American uh North American 47:32 white guy, but he was literally undercover and faking an accent. So one 47:38 kind of interesting, but do real life undercover cops do fake accents? Do they 47:44 get away with that kind of thing? I would say that they probably do it as little as they have as Yeah. not 47:53 recommended because if you drop that then it's gonna be bad news. Yeah. Imagine if let's just say I'm I'm 47:59 Canadian but let's say I'm part of some government agency where I have to go undercover in England. So yeah, there's 48:05 a lot of white people in England and uh Rookie Ryan put on your British accent. Hello China. It's like wait a minute 48:12 you're not freaking English. Who the hell are you? Like like at some point they're going to catch on. I think he's 48:18 I don't think that's a I don't think he's culturally born here. I think there might be something going on with his. 48:24 So, the fact that they had this guy like in the inner drug circles faking an accent, that's that's a risk there. I 48:29 don't know if I'd be willing to take that. I don't know about you. Yeah, that was funny. And like I said, 48:35 my wife did not even recognize him. So, Well, why would you with the accent, too? Yeah. Yeah. So, he's good. He's good. 48:41 He's good at his job, apparently. Yeah. He's good enough. Like I love the Hey, we need a we need a Latino 48:47 undercover cop. You know, the to bust the Mexican cartel. Got any volunteers? Yeah. 48:52 He like He's literally from Brooklyn. Yeah, I got it. Chewing gum. You know, it's like, do we have any do we have any 48:59 Spanish speaking individuals? Yeah. Yeah. Actual Latino cops are on vacation this 49:07 week. Mark's like, "I really hope they don't speak Spanish because I do a great accent, but I can't speak the language." 49:15 All right. So, he plays an undercover cop. Now, speaking of another director I've actually thought about covering on 49:21 our network one day in the future is Peter Berg had a little role in this film. What do you think of Peter Berg? 49:26 Any history on him? I enjoy Peter Berg. I am aware of 49:33 like very bad things and I run down and the rent's a fun film by the way. 49:39 It is a It is. I like that. So, Friday Night Lights, The Kingdom. 49:45 Yeah. Ballers. Lone Survivor. Great film. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he did The Kingdom. 49:52 Yeah. Is that Jamie Fox? Yeah. That's another movie. When I said I watched the last eight minutes or 15 49:58 minutes of last, the last 20 minutes of the kingdom when they're abducting Jason 50:04 Baitman and they're and it's the chase to to get him back and um Jennifer Gardner's kicking ass. 50:11 That's that's a great finale of a movie that that movie 50:16 uh I I'll probably go watch it right after the last 20 minutes of the kingdom right after this. If you haven't seen it 50:22 and you're listening to this, it's a slowburn beginning. Worth it for the end. 50:28 Yeah. Great film. And he became him and uh Mark Wahberg became like Lock to the 50:33 Hip after Lone Survivor. The next one, two, the next six films or he did six films in a row with Wahberg. Did you 50:40 know that? And they were like production partners too, right? I I believe it because I think they were 50:49 What? Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else. Well, maybe somebody else. That doesn't sound like a great career 50:55 choice. You like Mark? Hit or miss. Hit or miss. 51:01 Well, he did a great uh Netflix show. Highly recommend it. Uh called American Prime Prime. Highly review. Just came 51:08 out this year. It uh it's a five or six episodes on Netflix. Brutal. Do not 51:13 watch with the kids or whatever. But it Yeah, he he's good at storytelling. Peter Berg is good at storytelling. I 51:19 didn't realize that was Peter Bird. I saw I think I saw the first two. I gotta go back and finish that. Was good. I 51:25 forgot I forgot all about it. But yeah, he's the director and creator of that that series. Yeah. Yeah. That's V vicious. 51:32 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't watch it with your little ones. Um, okay. Drum roll, 51:38 please. The Vincent the Hitman played by the gay-haired Mr. Tom Cruz. First, 51:44 before we get into the character, what's your overall fandom, if any? Maybe you don't have one, but what's your fandom? I've heard you talk about him on the old 51:50 apologies podcast, but I would like to hear it in person here. Mr. Thomas Cruz Meer IVth. 51:56 I almost uh wore a gray blazer for this record. I was gonna I I have always modeled my hair after 52:06 Tom Cru. Whenever I didn't know what to do with my hair, I go, "What's Tom Cruz? What What's he doing with Mission 52:12 Impossible this year?" And that's how I would style my hair. We're the same height. No, I'm a little bit taller, I 52:18 think. But he's 5'7. Okay. Considerably taller, but yeah. And 52:25 you could see it in a couple of these scenes when he comes walking out following Jamie Fox out of the the jazz. 52:32 Fox is only 5'9, by the way. It's not like he's that tall. We're We're the same height then. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Not to It's not like 52:39 I'm just saying I'm six feet tall. I mean, not that it was not that I was measuring on the 52:45 that's my old I have my hair and I'm six feet tall, but that's about it. That that's I I've peaked this peak. 52:52 You're hitting the You're hitting the benchmark. That's what you got. But Tom, yeah, we just covered on my 52:57 show. We reviewed all the Mission Impossibles leading up to the latest one. and I they're not all bulletproof 53:07 movies, but he never fails to entertain. He's a he's a fantastic movie star. 53:14 Uh maybe this is arguably from me, my opinion, 53:21 maybe one of his better roles. Like, oh jeez, you scared me for a second there. Maybe maybe one of his best acting 53:27 performances in absolutely his whole catalog. 53:32 It was great. No, I mean this is what I mean. We talked about some of the silliness of Jada or Jamie or the plot 53:38 lines or whatever this or that. At the end of the day, folks, this is 53:44 a Tom Cruz film. Look, the guy rarely misses. He's 42 in this film. Like, 53:51 that's how old he is. So, I I always wondered why they gave him the gray hair, which is fine. I kind of like it. I don't know why they did it. I don't 53:57 know what the choice cuz he looks young. He doesn't look old, but it's like ah maybe the stress of being a hitman. Who 54:02 knows? He's got gray hair. That could be the only thing I'm thinking of because you can go gray in your 40s. Like it's 54:08 not uncommon, but they didn't give him like aging makeup or anything like that. You just look like a 42y old with gray 54:13 hair, which is fine. Which is fine. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Well, you look very handsome. Don't Don't you worry. You've got the 54:19 Top Gun glasses on. You're good to go. Uh I I only got the gray hair for this 54:25 review, too. I I didn't wear the blazer, but I dyed my hair. Oh, yeah. You got you dyed it just for the show. That's awesome. I appreciate 54:31 that. Yeah. The like you mentioned earlier already with the with the way Tom draws his weapon, the way he handles 54:38 the weapon, the way he talks to Jaime, the way he his character, the way he figures out Jamie, like in that cab 54:44 right at the very beginning, Tom figures out right away the character of course, but he doesn't the way Tom acts, the way 54:50 he's able to read people and he's like, "This is the cleanest cab I' ever been in." Regular ride. 54:57 Yeah, I share it with the day shift guy because you prefer nice. Yeah, people more relaxed, less stress, 55:02 less traffic, relatives. How are the benefits? Oh, no. It's not that kind of job. 55:08 I'm not in this for the long haul. I'm just filling in. You know, it's temporary while I'm getting some things shaped up. This is just temporary. 55:15 How long you been driving? 12 years. Really? 55:20 What are the things you put together? Um, 55:28 you know, I don't want to talk about it. Just a little business plan. No offense. 55:34 I take it. You're one of these guys that do sit talk. That's cool. 55:42 He realizes that Jamie is all talk and no show. He recognizes that right away. 55:48 Calls him out on his BS at the beginning like, "Oh, you're going to own these cab companies." And what I love though is that Fox's character recognizes that 55:56 he's been called out without even Tom saying he just what I love about that scene is that Jamie Fox's character Max 56:03 recognizes Vincent played by Tom that oh this guy is somebody I can't blow smoke 56:09 up at he cuz when Tom asked him like oh what's your what are you what are you hoping to do? He's like oh never mind 56:16 it's not worth talking about. He kind of recognizes that if I tell this guy my life for real, he's going to figure me 56:21 out. Whereas he felt with the girl he's trying to press, but with this guy, he's 56:27 he knows this there's something about this guy, the way he carries himself that he can't be BS this guy. But yeah, 56:32 every scene that Tom and Jamie are in, especially with the cab up until up 56:39 until Jamie Fox's character decides to crash the cab. That that's when the film 56:46 crashed to some degree, right? Was ironically when they got split up, when the characters got split up and 56:52 Jaime goes to save Jada and Tom chases him like creature of the week or, you know, monster of the week, I'm going to 56:57 kill you guys. I admit up until the finale of the train 57:02 sequence, that was pretty cool. But the crash, the cab crash sequence, Jamie 57:08 running with a gun down the street, saving Jada, Vincent all of a sudden not being as 57:13 good as he used to be for some reason. Maybe it was the car crash. They get away, they get on the train, they have 57:19 their little shoot at the end. Spoiler, Tom Cruz's character dies on the train and off he goes to the next stop. It's 57:25 not often that you see Tom Cruz die, so it's kind of interesting. You don't see it very often. Um, that's a good point. On on screen. In fact, the last time 57:33 that I can remember, here's a really deep trivia poll that Tom Cruz's character died on screen was 57:39 You tell me. He had a cameo and one of my favorite films of all time, Young Guns. 57:45 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Tom Cruz and Emilio Esvees are good friends in real life. They're good friends and especially back then, they 57:50 were they they hung out all the time. So Tom was visiting Emilio on the set of Young Guns like, "Hey, Emilio, this is 57:56 kind of fun. You're doing a western. This is kind of fun. Emilio's like, "Do you want to have a cameo?" Am in the finale. Tom's like, "Sure." Tom Tom put 58:02 on a cowboy hat and glass m wears a fake mustache in the set and he gets killed by Emilio in the shoot at the end. 58:08 That's Tom Cruz's character in Young Guns gets killed. I don't think he got killed again till 18 years later when he 58:14 was in 2004's collateral. Wow. Yeah, it's funny. So, it's not very often that Tom dies on 58:20 screen, but I like that he did. That's what I I'll give full credit to Tom because he always he's he is always 58:26 about the story. He's always about what works for the film because some actors Sylvester Sloan some actors refuse to 58:33 die on screen. They just they just have this weird um I can't die on screen because if I 58:39 die on screen that means I'm dead in real life. No, it's called acting. I promise you won't be dead. 58:45 Yeah. And the Rock and Vin Diesel lose a fight in Fast of the Furious. 58:52 Oh yeah, that whole Vin Diesel I thought that was a work 58:58 whatever serves the movie and that that definitely doesn't serve the movie and it's Vin Diesel's property. So 59:05 it is, but but The Rock was saying, "I'm a bigger I'm a bigger star," which is also kind of true. 59:10 Went on to basically hijack the franchise and take Jason Staithm with 59:16 him from, you know, not only I know. I love it. It's like the mega powers splitting or whatever for the 59:22 wrestling. Okay. I like that you brought up that he dies on the train at book ends the movie when 59:27 he when they first meet and he brings up the story that That's right. Nobody nobody cares about 59:33 anybody in LA. It's too disjointed and all over the place and chaotic that you 59:39 could a guy dies on a train and nobody discovers that he's dead for hours and hours and 59:46 first time in LA. Tell you the truth, whenever I'm here, I can't wait to leave. 59:54 Sprawled out, disconnected, you know. That's me. You like it? It's my home. 1:00:00 17 million people. This country be the fifth biggest economy in the world and nobody knows each other. 1:00:05 I read about this guy gets on the MTA here, dies. Six hours he's riding the subway before 1:00:12 anybody notices his corpse doing lapse around LA. People on and off sitting next to him. 1:00:18 Nobody notices. Yeah. That's what happens to him at the end of the movie. So, uh that's it's always 1:00:24 good to bookend a movie. I love it. Oh, I loved it. It's almost talk about the writing not being a little bit cliche or hamfisted as you 1:00:31 say. I admit that hamfisted thing about him being alone in the trade diet. It's like oh I feel bad for Vincent. A there 1:00:36 he goes. And that was that was the only uh cliche thing that Well, it was not even cliche. 1:00:42 It's but tropy tropy. Yeah, it was a good trope to to end the movie with. 1:00:47 I'll allow it because Tom did it. Anything Tom does, I'll allow I'll allow it. Uh, and I like that you're talking about 1:00:53 that he's the villain and he dies and it reminds me of another movie that is also 1:00:59 maybe a little cheesy in the best way and another actor that is famously a 1:01:07 good guy that has one of his best performances as a villain in uh Denzel 1:01:12 and Training Day. Oh, about the same time too or was a few years previous. You know what? It's 1:01:18 funny that you bring that up. I think training day was 2000 if I remember correctly. I wonder if Tom 1:01:23 saw Danzel's performance and oh I kind of like that because he kind of plays a he plays a bit of an a-hole an a-hole 1:01:29 with a bit of a heart. He actually tries to help Jamie Fox's character to get a bit of backbone to he kind of gives him 1:01:34 like Tony Robinson type lessons in the the movie. Very very similar. Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder if he saw Train Day's 1:01:41 performance said oh that's kind of fun to do. I wouldn't be surprised. Like Tom's Tom by his own mission, he he says 1:01:48 he watches a movie every day. What? Training day. No, Tom says he watches a movie every 1:01:54 day. Yeah, he watches a movie every day. Like he loves film. What I'm getting at? He he he genuinely loves the industry. He 1:02:01 loves films. He like, yeah, this is his life. Like he truly, other than maybe his religious 1:02:08 religion, he truly loves film. And I believe when he says, "Oh yeah, I watch a film every day." So I think when he 1:02:13 saw Train Day, I bet you there's a part like Yeah. Especially when they gave him an Oscar. I mean, they were really giving 1:02:19 him Denzel an Oscar for Malcolm X that he got snubbed for. Yes. And they gave it to him for that, but 1:02:25 the same way they gave Heath Ledger an Oscar for the Joker. I mean, that's a great movie. Don't get me wrong. I love 1:02:31 that character. Would he have won would he have won the Oscar had he not died? No. Yeah, I know. But this is my question to you. Do you 1:02:38 think that Tom Cruz is butt hurt in any single way that he is never gonna be 1:02:44 recognized as an Oscarw worthy actor? Okay, so at the end of the day, look, 1:02:52 I know I'm going to probably lose the two fans listening to the show. The reality is I I I 1:02:58 like movies like Tom. I like movies and I like good people who are good at their job. Tom's good at his job. Part 1:03:04 jealousy. Let me go Let me go back to Sly. Sly is extremely not liked by his 1:03:09 peers in Hollywood. The reason being is cuz Sly is self-made. Sylvester is self-made. He, you know, he created 1:03:14 Rocky. He didn't create the Ramble character, but he made it popular. He made it huge. Then he does the 1:03:21 Expendables because, uh, you know, no one's giving me action films anymore, so I'm going to make another franchise. So, he makes the Expendables. He's worth 1:03:26 five $600 million on his own. Like, even Brad Pit can't say that. George Clooney can't say that. Like, he's worth a lot 1:03:33 of money. The only people who are worth more than him are the other out. I ironically the people that are worth the 1:03:38 same amount of sly are the outliers. Mel Gibson and Tom Cruz. Isn't that funny? The people that are worth hundreds of 1:03:45 million dollars are the ones who are kind of ostracized. And I'm just saying rightfully or not rightfully so. I'm 1:03:50 just saying that's just the reality. And again, not that money is a is a value marker, but I'm just saying these people are successful at 1:03:56 their job. Now, so Tom should have won Academy Awards. I don't you named the film 1:04:02 Magnolia, Rainman, uh Born in the Fourth of July, 1:04:07 uh Collateral, I I just off top of my head, like this guy, I think there's a 1:04:14 reason why he went to the Mission Impossible films to some degree. He's like, "Okay, uh I am a good actor. I've 1:04:19 shown that I'm a good actor, but you know what? Fine. Audiences want popcorn flakes. I'll give them the best kick-ass popcorn flick franchise they can have." 1:04:26 And he did that. So, I don't know what else he can do. He gives us a franchise that's pretty hard to beat. Like 1:04:32 pound-for-pound, it's it's not a bad franchise of action and and and good writing and directing. And he's also 1:04:38 given us a lot of films that he's acted very good in. So, to answer your question, I don't know. I I don't know 1:04:44 what he has to do. Yeah, that's a good answer. Uh I I hadn't considered the notion that he was 1:04:52 actively being snubbed. I thought it was just maybe well it's voted you're voted on by your 1:04:58 peers. Yeah, that's who they like how the I could be wrong, but how the academy works is all 1:05:03 the producers, all the writers, all the editors, all the directors, all the actors and actresses, 1:05:09 they they put their name on it's a it's a it's a popularity con. They they vote and people often vote when they haven't 1:05:15 seen the film. They just, oh, I like Javier Arbaram. Oh, I like they they 1:05:20 don't have to see the film to put the ballot in. They just have to be a member of the academy. But to your point, Sly 1:05:27 got an Oscar. No, he doesn't. No, he didn't win for Rocky. He Okay, so technically, no. He uh 1:05:34 Rocky, the first film won for best editing, best picture, and best director. 1:05:41 So, the best picture doesn't count for him? No, cuz he he wrote the film and he starred in it. But best director, sorry, 1:05:47 best picture goes to the producer. Oh, that's got to hurt. And he wasn't a producer. So, producer 1:05:53 So, when So anytime you I'm I'm a bit of an academy nerd. So anytime you a a pitcher 1:05:58 wins best pitcher, that's why a lot of directors are also producers just in 1:06:04 case they win best pitcher because you can win best pitcher. But if a director directs, let's say uh yeah, let's say 1:06:10 director directs a picture that wins best picture, but they weren't a producer credit. They actually don't go up and win the Oscar. It goes to for 1:06:16 whatever reason best pitcher cuz the producer is actually the boss of the film. They're the one a producer is 1:06:22 somebody that can fire a director, right? So they're actually the ones in charge 1:06:27 overall. So when a when a wind's best pitcher, they're saying, "Hey, good job producer. You put together the team that 1:06:34 gave you the picture." Yeah. Director, actors, writing crew, that's kind of how it's looked at. So it's kind 1:06:40 of even though the best pitcher, that's why best pitcher is the last one and the one before it is director. Uh because 1:06:45 yeah, producers are more important in the sense because they will hire their teams. They're like the general Yeah. 1:06:51 They're the general manager of the of the Super Bowl team. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. When, for example, Sly was nominated 1:06:58 again for he was one of the only three actors, I think, in film history to be nominated for. So, he was nominated for 1:07:04 best actor for Rocky. Then he was nominated again for best actor for Creed, playing the Rocky character in Creed. He was nominated again for the 1:07:11 same character 30 years apart or whatever it was. And he was a shoein. He won the Golden Globe. So, he did win the 1:07:17 Golden Globe, which often indicates the Golden Globe winner will be the Oscar winner. Yeah. But he lost it to a nobody actor on a 1:07:24 nobody film for a two-minute role because it's sly. That's why 1:07:29 the foreign press, they they're more they don't give a crap about the politics of things. They're literally 1:07:35 It's I think it's literally like 30 French people, like literally. And they're the ones that get the awards. 1:07:41 So, the foreign press is not the academy. We've talked Tom Cruz on this podcast. We talked about him from 1:07:46 Ezwick. He was in Jack Reacher film and he was of course in Last Samurai. So we've had fun talking about him and now 1:07:51 it's kind of cool that he's with Michael Man. So to Tom Cruz's credit and I don't blame him. He surrounds himself by 1:07:57 talent as well. Like talented directors. He's not afraid to have a director that's a good director. Sometimes 1:08:02 actors, they don't want to be directed because I'm a good actor. I don't want to be directed. You know, you know what I mean? 1:08:07 Oh, right. That's why you had John Woo direct Mission Impossible, too. You 1:08:12 could just pause him around the whole time. Uh, it's funny. You know, it's funny. I 1:08:18 really like that film when it came out. Uh, I still kind of do. It's just such the highest grossing movie of the year. 1:08:24 It's a fun film. It's a fun film. I kind of like to long hair, Tom. Ridiculous. I had I had that long hair, 1:08:32 Ryan, when that came out. Oh, nice. Nice. But yeah, that that is the most 2000 1:08:38 movie that was It is came out in the 2000. The Limp Biscuit. Yeah. intro, you know, throwing the 1:08:45 glasses at the screen blows up. Yeah. And it was he was John Woo was the only director that wasn't invited back after 1:08:51 directing the previous Mission Impossible. Every director, whether it was, you know, um who directed the first 1:08:59 one? Somebody uh Yeah, Brian Dealma. De Palma, right? They're like, "Oh, please do the second one." No, I can't. 1:09:05 Okay, John Woo. All right, John Woo, you're done. Let's move on to JJ Abrams. And then everybody else got the ask back 1:09:11 until they landed on the guy that did the last five. But uh yeah, John Woo. No, he he he was so scared that Tom was 1:09:21 going to kill himself doing his own stunts that Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Couldn't like deal with it. But 1:09:26 overall, what are your thoughts? What's your closing thoughts on the film then? Good film. Recommend it. What What's your thoughts? 1:09:31 Interesting because they asked me I went digging through IMDb for more little fun 1:09:37 facts about Oh, yeah. What do you got there? Film. I I mentioned some, but you brought up a few of them, too. But when 1:09:44 I was on there, they asked me to rate the movie. Oh. Can I guess? Can I guess? 1:09:50 Yeah. Seven. Yep. Okay, you got it. Uh, yeah. the the choices 1:09:57 that man makes and the personality that he gives to the film itself and the 1:10:03 characters uh over compensate for the shortcomings 1:10:09 of the writing that the performances carry even though like these things that 1:10:17 I didn't like about the the writing are saved by the performances of Jamie Fox 1:10:24 and Tom Cruz and everybody else that's fantastic in this movie. All these little cameos make it extra fun, even 1:10:33 though that's probably, you know, more of a happy accident in hindsight that they injected all these, you know, 1:10:40 bigger people that went on to have bigger and better careers. So, uh, it 1:10:46 just m it just makes for a nice tense, taught thriller with good action and we 1:10:55 Oh, especially when Tom Cruz jumps through the plate glass office window and falls on the chair and they're like, 1:11:01 "Oh, that was an accident, but we're going to leave it in." Yeah, I love that. That's great. I didn't I didn't know it was an accident, 1:11:06 but I I love it. And I love that they've kept Tom Cruz accidents, of course, in the Mission Impossible films. They've kept those in the films, too, when he 1:11:12 broke his ankle and things like that and Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I think seven's a fair. I think 1:11:17 it's a that's a good grade. I mean, that means you enjoyed greatly 70% of the 1:11:23 film. Uh I think the weakest part of the film is the third act. I think the first definitely the highlight is the whole 1:11:30 Jamie, even when it's the story doesn't make sense or it's a lot of holes, 1:11:36 that's fine. Whatever. I I'm not one of those pompous I'm not a pompous movie viewer. I give I forgive a lot of sins 1:11:42 in films as long as I'm not bored. I don't care. It's like you can have plot holes. Yeah, 1:11:47 that doesn't make sense. I don't care about the not making sense. Am I bored? Am I Cuz I just want Are you not entertained? I just want to be 1:11:53 entertained. It's nice when things are a little bit real in the realm of real. But this is, you know, obviously you're 1:11:58 not going to have a hitman hiring a cab driver. The whole premise is silly. Like Tom would have been better off just 1:12:03 literally hotwiring a car and driving himself. The need for him to be driven unless he had a fear of driving. I don't 1:12:09 know. That was never mentioned. Who knows? Yeah. Who knows? It's the one thing he can't do. He's like a great He can't drive. He 1:12:15 does have a license to drive. Who knows? Is it just like I I don't know my way around LA. I You seem to know it the 1:12:22 best. So, right. Going to use you as a tool kind of mentality. But you're 1:12:28 right. Is it's it doesn't he could just catch I don't know. Whatever. Then we 1:12:34 don't have That's what I mean. The plot doesn't That's what I'm getting. It doesn't matter. What we get is great interaction 1:12:40 between the two characters. Jamie Fox does the best when he's with Tom. I think Tom brings out the best in actors. 1:12:46 Uh Tom's performance as Hitman Vincent, I give that 10 out of 10. That's what 1:12:52 elevates the film for me as well. If I was a rated I don't usually rate films in like on the show per se, but I would 1:12:57 give this I think that's a very fair rating. Had another actor played the role of Vincent, I think we would be 1:13:03 having a wholly different discussion about the film. I think maybe I would be talking about the plot holes more and 1:13:08 why it doesn't work because I'm not engaged the way I am. When Tom's on screen, you're engag here's the thing. Are you ever bored when Tom's on screen, 1:13:15 right? No. And he goes from being charming with Jamie Fox's mom or 1:13:21 convincing Jamie Fox that they're that he's helping him to being super vicious 1:13:26 and uh nasty. I you on the you know 90 1:13:32 or completely 180 of right his character. It's a it's a really great performance like I said 1:13:37 and then when he dies at the end this the way he kind of conceds defeat and just says oh isn't that ironic I'm dying 1:13:44 on the train. Remember that discussion we had in the cab. It's come full circle like but again it's done well just the 1:13:50 way he just sits in the train. He's like looks like he's sleeping but he's dead. And uh yeah, I I I think seven out of 10 1:13:57 is a good score, but again, Tom Cruz, I'm glad he's in another film. I I enjoy talking Tom Cruz films. So, it's always 1:14:03 fun when I'm covering a director and he happens to pop up. So, yeah. Yep. All right. Well, let folks know again, 1:14:09 Andy, where they can uh where they can catch you. What's next on the docket maybe? Yeah. I'll plug All Apologies podcast 1:14:15 again. We do that every that comes out on our YouTube channel every Wednesday 1:14:20 in the afternoon. And I also do a show with our friend Kaylee and another 1:14:27 friend of mine Luigi Greenberg over on Skeptical Robot. We have a show called The Edge Files that is a kind of a real 1:14:36 life phenomena type of I love it. I love that show once a month. This weekend we're going to 1:14:42 Lilyale, New York, which is a it's a gated compound community full of 1:14:49 spiritual mediums where you can go and get a psychic 1:14:54 reading and if you are into that type of [ __ ] 1:14:59 but we're take I'm taking the podcast out of my office here into the real world. We're going to shoot content out 1:15:06 there and then I'm going to be able to record my psychic encounter. I'm getting 1:15:12 when they read the tea leaves or whatever is going to happen. I've read a couple of different stories about things 1:15:17 that they do there. So, I'll have that recording to bring back to the podcast when it's my turn to do 1:15:24 the show. Lucy is gonna Kaylee, sorry, however you know, Kaylee from WATP or 1:15:31 the Onceover, but she's doing an episode on the 25th. I 1:15:36 think it's the last Monday of every month, and we're doing an episode about 1:15:41 elective amputees, people who feel like they that they're they shouldn't have 1:15:47 their left arm. Please check out Edge Files on all of our respective channels, but uh mostly if anybody's listening to 1:15:54 this, they enjoyed this, please subscribe to All Apologies Podcast on YouTube. All right, it's always a pleasure, Andy, 1:16:00 and I hope we have you on again. Uh my next season, just if you're tracking and you can think about it because I'm going 1:16:05 to invite you whether you like it or not, my next season is going to be Terrence Malik. 1:16:10 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Another I like this. These are, like you said, under underappreciated, less uh 1:16:18 recognizable names, but I know the name and I'm sure I've seen thin red line. 1:16:25 That's probably what you saw. There you go. Yeah. All right. All right, brother. Thank you so much. 1:16:30 You got it. [Music] 1:16:53 Heat. Heat. [Music] 1:17:16 Heat. [Music] [Applause] 1:17:22 [Music]