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Glorious Exploits by Ferdia Lennon | Review | Waterstones Debut Fiction Prize 2024 · Bookies' Favourite

0:13
Hi everyone, welcome to the Club, bookie's favorite book
0:16
club. We discuss award-winning
0:18
authors, nominated novels, best selling books, bookshelf stories
0:23
and recently released reads. Wow, Aaron, look at you at the
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alliteration going on here. Yeah, we're coming at you live
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with a script this time. So we're definitely we're moving
0:32
off in the. Podcast World.
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This episode we're reviewing a book chosen by you, the
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listener, Glorious Exploits by Ferdia Lennon.
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I'm Colin. I'm currently wearing a dress
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and parading around the living room as Medea.
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I like this book. I mean, I think it was a fun
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read overall. I don't know, maybe we'll get
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into this bit later on. I don't know if there's too much
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there to like chew on. I kind of found it a bit lacking
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in terms of like depth, but I thought it was a fun read and
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enjoyable. I didn't.
1:02
It took me a bit to get through, but I think that's mostly I just
1:05
my own painful reading slump at the moment.
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But yeah, I'm Lucy, and I'm in the Greek chorus right now, just
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at the back. Somewhere that's.
1:19
Not me. Can I confirm that?
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I thought I, I thought it had a really strong opening.
1:25
I, I liked a lot of the themes like war, stuff like that.
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Not that I like war, but I like the theme of war in novels and I
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did enjoy it. I thought one element of it that
1:39
I think really stopped it from being a really massively amazing
1:43
read for me was I wasn't 100% sure on the writing and I didn't
1:48
love the ending. Hi, I had it and this was my
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first book I've ever read on a kindle.
1:55
How exciting. I actually really enjoyed this
1:58
book. I had read a kind of sucky book
2:01
before that so it was in a bit of a reading slump, but this got
2:04
me completely out of it and I actually finished it over 2
2:06
sittings. I really loved one particular
2:10
kind of theme throughout about friendships and that complexity
2:13
and with different characters. And I kind of loved like,
2:16
there's a shock bit in it. I was like, oh, but I don't want
2:20
to say because that'll get too far ahead.
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But yeah, I really enjoyed it. Not sure if it's like completely
2:26
like the style of writing and things I like, but it was
2:28
something different. And yeah, I really liked it.
2:31
So, Aaron, the big question, the one everyone really wants to
2:35
know, did you finish the book? I I'm Aaron I I've had tech
2:41
issues so not all of my audio has recorded for this episode so
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I'm just going to re record myself but I am enjoying some
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olives and cheese from Sicily. I have all the power here so I
2:55
can make them laugh at my jokes. I did actually finish reading
3:01
this book, but when I recorded it initially I had not.
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The join us in reading Confessions by Catherine Airy,
3:13
Lucy's freshly Bone Pick. As for this week's book,
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Glorious Exploits, Lucy, could you give us a quick synopsis?
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Glorious exploits begins when the Athenians Navy is completely
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destroyed off the coast of Sicily and prisoners of war are
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taken to Pitts or former quarries in near Syracuse.
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And two unemployed Potters, Lampo and Gellan decide that
3:44
they are going to use these prisoners of war to put on a
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dramatic performance of Euripides, Medea and also Trojan
3:52
Woman, which is Euripides new play.
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And I suppose that they are Gellan is obsessed with
3:59
Euripides and obsessed with Athenian plays.
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So he wants to hear the new play Trojan Woman and he wants to get
4:08
them all to like do a performance of the play and and
4:14
the book is just them putting on this play.
4:17
That's the rough plot. So Ferdia Lennon is an Irish
4:21
writer. In fact, Glorious Exploits is
4:24
his first published work and took took him seven years to
4:28
write this book. So that puts my complaining in
4:31
perspective when I'm like 2 years into writing, I'm like,
4:34
there, I can't do this. But yeah, apparently he dropped
4:37
it for a long time. He came back, he wanted to give
4:39
another shot and I'll look at him.
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He's winning the awards left, right and center.
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So it just shows perseverance, sticking to your guns and
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following your gut that kind of gets you rewarded in the end.
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Spoiler warning from this point onwards if you haven't read the
4:51
book yet and you're planning to come back to this discussion
4:54
after you're done, so final warning.
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I'm just going to start us with a quote from The Trojan Women,
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as that is how this book starts. Death cannot be what life is,
5:07
child. The cup of death is empty, and
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life has always hoped. Let's get the thoughts of our
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bookie of the week, Irish book Blogger Maraid, who you can find
5:17
on Instagram at Maraid dot Herne.
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Hi, my name is Maraid Herne, I'm a book Blogger based in Cork.
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Umm, I'm here today to talk to you about Glorious Exploits by
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Faridi Lenin, which was published in 2024.
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It's, uh, based circa 412 BC, and he takes the reader back in
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history to a really tumultuous period when invading armies were
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relentless. They were pilfering, there was
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violence commonplace among many communities, and following a
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failed attack by the Athenian forces on the city of Syracuse,
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the soldiers are captured and thrown into a local quarry,
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chained up, and basically left to survive on starvation
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rations. That's a very brutal existence
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for them. Under the heat and the hiring
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conditions, few remain upright, and there's really little hope
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left for them. Now, the local population
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doesn't particularly like the Athenians, but in the middle of
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it there are two friends. They're dreamers, Gelin and
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Lampeau. Now they're currently
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unemployed, kind of floundering, not too sure what to do.
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Gelin, a thespian, is a dreamer, and Lampeau is bored.
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But they come up with this idea of staging a play, a Greek
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tragedy using the Athenian prisoners and, I suppose,
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enacting the play, and they get quite excited about the whole
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thing. And they want to perform this
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Greek play by Greek actors in acquiring Syracuse.
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But obviously, there's rumblings among the community over this
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really ambitious project. Now, like, what Freudy Lennon
6:38
has done here is he's created a particularly fun read, but it's
6:42
also littered with, I suppose, moments of desperation and
6:45
horror. But it gives a lot of insight
6:46
into the value attached to life at that time.
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It's a very clever book. There is dark humor, a woven
6:52
throat, this kind of historical narrative, and there is, of
6:55
course, the tragicomic aspect of the story, lots of reference to
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Greek mythology. So it is also quite educational
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and very entertaining, which is, I suppose, what a lot of people
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look for in a book these days. The bromance between Galen and
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Lampo is wonderfully portrayed. They're very loyal to each
7:11
other. It gets challenged but their
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friendship is quite rooted, which gets them through some
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very extraordinary circumstances.
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It's a very visual read, very vivid read.
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I thought it was quite a Stan cover book.
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Quirky, unique and Freddie Lennon really has wasted no
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time. He captivates and entertains his
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readers from the gecko. So what I would say is if you
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enjoyed watching Clebs, or watched Horrible Histories or
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read any of the books, or if you were a fan of Monty Python's The
7:36
Life of Brian, this is definitely a book for you.
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Highly entertaining recommend to us.
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Firstly, Maria, I love your accent.
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Incredible. It should be written in a choric
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accent, not a Dublin accent. It's not something that she said
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really well, and it's something that I think about a lot when I
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was thinking about the book. Is that the, the whole like what
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the Athenians have kind of like the, the horror of what they're
8:00
going through? But also I think that the book
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talks about the horrors that they've inflicted on the
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Sicilians as well. And I thought that was kind of
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and I think as well, you know, we, the war is constantly
8:13
happening. Like there's probably never a
8:15
time where the world's at peace really ever.
8:18
You know, there's always something going on somewhere.
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And it's like we, we all have such opinions on them.
8:22
And it's kind of a smart move to go back that far where, you
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know, the Athenians and the Spartans are obviously just as
8:31
angry as every people are today. But they're still like, we, we
8:35
are so removed from them. Like I, I can't imagine anyone
8:38
reading this book is going to be like, oh, I hate Spartans, you
8:40
know, or like, yeah, it's. So far away, yeah.
8:45
And that's. Also, I think what you're
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saying, like, I mean, at the end, like, obviously spoiler
8:50
Sarah Cruz gets like attacked in the end anyway.
8:54
So it's like, or is it Athens? No way.
8:56
It's sorry. I'm thinking Athens.
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Oh, yeah. It's like this vicious cycle.
9:01
Yeah. It's this vicious cycle of like,
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I mean, this violence begets more violence and they're
9:08
constantly at war with each other.
9:09
No one can escape it. But 3 was such levity in this
9:12
book as well, because immediately you're you're you're
9:14
brought into this world of like these people in this pit and
9:17
Lampeau and Galen are just walking around so casual and
9:19
they're like, Ah, fuck, sure. There's there's bit bitten bit
9:23
on bit on beating the heads off people.
9:26
You know, it's just so like it's it's totally like this comedic
9:29
like levity that kind of like, I mean, I think you're reading
9:32
you're like this is this should be shocking, you know, but you
9:35
could totally he could Ferdie Elen could totally have written
9:38
that in such a dark and where but in but each purposefully
9:42
chooses this comedic like manner of telling the story, which I
9:46
find quite interesting. Like war is obviously happening,
9:50
but for me, the book pointed out how similar people are at times.
9:54
Like there's not actually really too many differences between
9:57
each group. And the one thing that brings
9:58
them together in a way is like art and always makes me think
10:04
about how we're constantly like defunding, like arts programs
10:08
and that. But if you reflect on this book,
10:10
it shows you the importance of the arts and I they're one thing
10:15
that can really bring people together.
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I thought it was really quite well done, you know that.
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Yeah, that of it, like picking up on that point.
10:23
I like the healing through art. It really reminded me this is
10:26
really stupid and it's not really art, but it really
10:28
reminded me of like, I don't know if you guys had to do this
10:31
when you were like, kids, we need to do this thing where
10:35
like, you had to meet. So like a Catholic school and a
10:38
Protestant school would all go and play basketball together
10:42
with a bunch of Americans. This is a very specific thing.
10:45
I imagine most people won't. Oh no, that's new.
10:49
The Americans were like, it was really baffled me because it was
10:51
like 19 year old Americans telling like Belfast kids that
10:57
they shouldn't hate each other. And it's like you're from
11:00
Wisconsin. That's so strange, so
11:03
disconnected. You're like 5 years older than
11:05
us and you're telling us how to be like, they're, they're
11:09
healing these divided societies. But it is kind of like probably
11:13
the EU funded so many things. Like there were so many things I
11:17
had to do as a kid. I'm definitely like a Good
11:19
Friday Agreement child. So like, we had to do so much
11:23
stuff. Big up the big the Good Friday
11:25
Agreement. I do think what you're saying
11:28
though, about like the healing through art and stuff.
11:30
It's so interesting the the comparison, though.
11:34
They're they're doing like for in particular Trojan women about
11:37
all these women after war who have like are being brought into
11:40
these abusive like situations and like they've lost everything
11:43
and they're alone. They have no man to protect
11:45
them. And and they're doing this play
11:48
like rubbing it pretty much in the Athenians faces.
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But also it's a cycle of violence.
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But they treat it with such like, sincerity and it's like
11:56
very serious and it's art. But the rest of it is so
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humorous and everything around it.
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Do you know this is what the the the strange juxtaposition of the
12:05
comedy with like the actual horror you know is so
12:08
interesting. Do you think it's like the Irish
12:10
humor of things? You know, the way we all just
12:12
can't actually deal with serious stuff, like in a miserable way.
12:16
Like I think about about my parents and chatting about
12:19
things that they like Dave during the triples and you're
12:21
like, Oh my God, like the world is being blown up around you and
12:25
you're like, let's still just go for pints, you know?
12:28
I know always such a weird thing about those people like the our
12:32
far parents generation, just like living normal lives when
12:36
like the yeah, the world's like crumbling around them.
12:38
Something I really loved about it and how he told this story
12:44
about kind of because, because I think if you'd have read this
12:47
story at a different point or if he'd started the narrative at a
12:50
different point, you, you would have felt more on the Sicilians
12:54
and the Syracusans like side about things.
12:57
But we meet the Athenian prisoners of war and we feel
12:59
genuinely very sorry for them because we we know that they've
13:03
inflicted horrific like the Athenians and I imagine the
13:06
Spartans were not known for their, they're known for their
13:09
brutality. And those wars were horrific.
13:11
And the Sicilians as allies to Sparta wouldn't have been as
13:17
I'm, I mean, I don't know much about this kind of stuff, but
13:20
like they wouldn't, they wouldn't have been as advanced
13:23
and as serious as Athens or Sparta.
13:25
So it's kind of like, I feel like you, you get the the
13:29
palpable hatred of the Athenians there, but you don't as the
13:34
reader, you're not quite where the Syracusans are in their
13:38
hatred of the Athenians. So you're kind of slowly hearing
13:41
more stories about the things that the Athenians have done.
13:44
And then then up until the end of the book, near the end where
13:48
they pass through, sorry Aaron, they pass through a time that
13:53
has been destroyed by the Athenians and they see all the
13:57
like horrific things the Athenians have done.
14:00
And the main character is like, Lambeau has to like, see all
14:04
these things and like. Yeah, it comes so late in the
14:06
story. Whereas like, yeah, they build
14:08
up, builds up the sympathy and like empathy to these people
14:11
starving. I'm like sure, other characters
14:13
say like, oh, they killed my these, these children's fathers
14:17
and stuff. But you don't really, you're not
14:19
really shown that you know, all Yeah, you see them as per
14:22
wounded people, not soldiers who have slaughtered and like burned
14:26
places, you know? They're starving and dying and
14:29
they're so weak and they're so like and their friends are being
14:32
killed and there's more of them dying every day because they're
14:35
not fed correctly because. They're like, it makes me think
14:39
of Pat Patches. Patches.
14:41
I don't know how you say his name like he's treated, you
14:46
know, he's like brought in and it's almost like, almost like a
14:48
pet in a way for for Lambeau. It's like, well, look at this.
14:51
Like I've got an Athenian friend, you know, it's kind of
14:53
like, yeah, like, like we yeah, we're cool.
14:55
But like, he was there also as a soldier, probably killing these
14:59
people, fighting for his life. I know it's survival, too, at
15:01
the end of the day. But do you know, it builds this
15:05
weird? I don't know.
15:06
It's so interesting that Ferdia chose to to focus on that side
15:10
of it as opposed to them being monstrous and like, horrific.
15:13
I thought that was the most interesting innovative thing,
15:15
more than like the Irish style language.
15:18
I thought that style of like how we deal with like punishment of
15:22
like war criminals and how we because I don't think he
15:27
couldn't have told this story with a a modern ish war.
15:30
He couldn't have told this story, you know, because we
15:32
already have built. Too, too real.
15:33
Yeah, you, you would, you would have had a side that you would
15:37
have naturally gone towards, whereas you can tell the story
15:40
of Athenians and Spartans because I have no side on that.
15:43
And but I think as well the interesting thing that I imagine
15:48
Athenians is a dominant culture and the Sicilians are not a
15:51
dominant culture. And I kind of got the vibe of
15:54
England and Ireland in that story.
15:57
And I thought he wouldn't be trying to do something like that
15:59
sort of culturally at the time. You know, Athenia, Athenia,
16:04
Athens has all these like plays and big things where Syracuse is
16:08
more. I'm putting inverted comments
16:11
here with my hands more backward, which I think is
16:13
always high Ireland scene. And I don't think that there was
16:17
any that I can think of in history, maybe apart from the
16:19
Anglo Irish War, where Ireland beat England dramatically.
16:24
But I'm imagining if Ireland, say, had beaten England in a
16:28
massive war and we had a load of prisoners of war from England,
16:33
you know, we still love Shakespeare, but we probably
16:37
would, like, you would probably find it very, very hard to see
16:40
it play with English prisoners of war after the things that had
16:44
happened in Ireland. But I thought it was kind of an
16:46
interesting thing about the fact that actually art transcends
16:50
those things, or at least tries to.
16:52
And art should possibly transcend those things.
16:55
Yeah, hopefully, and we should all play basketball together.
16:59
It was definitely cricket for the.
17:03
Unity. Yeah.
17:04
I love the idea that, like you say, I was Shakespeare.
17:06
Like, yeah, they would still have loved Shakespeare and they
17:08
would have been like, these people can put on Shakespeare
17:11
for us. Like, of course, do you know,
17:12
the art does like. But that's the thing at the end
17:14
of the day, like Honey had said earlier, the human heart of all
17:18
these issues, it shows the similarities between these
17:20
people. People fall in love.
17:22
You know, people have family, they have friends.
17:24
They all have loved ones and they like to dance and they like
17:27
to drink and they like to like sing and all these different
17:29
things that Shakespeare has in all his players that transcend
17:32
all these different cultures. It's the same thing with these
17:34
players. Even though they're like written
17:37
by your bodies, like an enemy or whatever of the Syracusans, it's
17:41
like it all connects. And like, maybe that's why, you
17:44
know, we start in the middle and we don't see the horror because
17:47
the whole point of the book is seeing like, we're all like,
17:50
even if we're fighting each other, we're all still the same
17:52
people. Yeah, yeah, I think as well like
17:55
the the demonization of of culture when something like this
17:58
happens and it's like you don't you, you do feel for the
18:01
Syracusans, even though you do feel for the Athenians.
18:04
You do when the more the more that's revealed, like the more
18:07
people whose families have died in horrific ways due to the
18:10
Athenians and the fact that, you know, they attacked Sicily and
18:14
they were the ones who thought they were going to win.
18:16
They thought they were going to destroy these people.
18:17
What they would have done to these people had they have won
18:20
that that naval battle, then you, the Sicilians are rightly
18:26
angry. They're rightly don't like
18:29
anything from their culture, from the Athenian culture
18:31
anymore. And it does make total sense.
18:34
But I think that when we shut out other cultures because we
18:38
don't like them, it's like, I can't see it as a building a
18:44
bridge for the future. It's, I think that's probably
18:47
like, it's some of the most innovative writing around things
18:51
like that that I've actually ever read.
18:54
Though I had issues with some some parts of the writing, I
18:56
thought this is a really refreshing way of looking.
19:00
At it. Like, if you think about this
19:02
way, like Shakespeare's works have lasted for a very, very,
19:05
very long time. I mean, even do you know, these
19:07
plays like Medea and the Trojan women, they've all lasted this
19:09
long time and those conflicts fade into obscurity.
19:12
They don't matter anymore, you know, Like, it just shows that
19:15
like, art and stuff is immortal really.
19:17
Like it continues to be told over and over again.
19:20
Can I just bring up a point of what Murray had mentioned
19:25
previously about the bromance between the two characters?
19:29
I had actually thought for a while that Lampo, our narrator,
19:34
might have been gay or at least queer in some way.
19:39
There are several points throughout where he just talks
19:43
about how beautiful different men are.
19:46
So he multiple times whenever he speaks about Galen, his best
19:51
friend, he just talks about how handsome he is.
19:54
And whenever he's introduced to Patches or Patches, Patches is
20:03
presented as potentially having a queer love interest because he
20:09
was found in the arms of another man sleeping.
20:12
Yeah, even later on it's not explicitly confirmed, but I
20:15
mean, it pretty much is confirmed like without saying
20:18
it, you know? Yeah, I think.
20:21
I don't know if he's trying to like, hark back to the time of
20:23
like. Yeah, that's what I was
20:25
thinking. But I know I thought it was
20:28
like. Interesting.
20:31
Well, that could also be because of the time and like all the men
20:34
were into men and stuff. Do you know, it's like that
20:37
classic sort of thing. I wasn't lucked on upon as much
20:42
as and I will say in the audiobook are the bit like the
20:46
introduction of like gallon stuff.
20:48
It's written more like with the voice with Verdia voicing it.
20:52
It sounds more like just casual. It's like it doesn't seem like
20:55
actual like interest. It's like Usher, he's the most
20:58
handsome fella you know. It's like that as opposed to
21:01
putting much stake in it. Oh see, I was reading it in the
21:04
camp voice. Well.
21:07
See, There you go. It's.
21:09
Not just Gallon. It's like multiple points.
21:12
There's that teenage boy, the son of the aristocrats.
21:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just the blonde.
21:18
The blonde like what? I can't remember, but like he's
21:21
got some like cut we've cut down on.
21:23
And so it's a. Pretty boy and because he
21:26
doesn't know his name. Yeah, because I understand.
21:29
But a lot and like those are just two characters that are
21:32
coming to my mind are three characters.
21:34
But there's like for pashes he he mentions like, oh, he's so
21:38
good looking, He's so good looking.
21:39
And then he realizes actually, he's not as good looking as I
21:42
thought. He's actually got a beat up face
21:44
and but there are multiple male characters throughout where
21:47
he'll just be like he's so handsome.
21:49
He's like beautiful. He's extremely slender and
21:54
feminine and like he's constantly commenting on these
21:58
men's. But The thing is, there's so
22:00
little women in the story, like the only ones you can think of
22:03
are Electo and Lydia. Is it not like a reflection on
22:07
his self? Like he thinks so little of his
22:09
self himself that he is envious of all these other like
22:14
characteristics and stuff of other people?
22:17
Like he's like, oh, he's so pretty.
22:18
Like, and he wants to be pretty. Yeah.
22:22
That could be a good point. I do think that him as a
22:25
narrator, he's very flawed. Oh yeah, we like flawed
22:30
narrator. Yes, but.
22:33
I mean we we love a flawed narrator with Crocs, but not
22:36
Crocs in the way we would think. Crocs in terms of actual
22:40
crocodiles that he keeps referring to his Crocs.
22:42
My Crocs are water damage or whatever and it's so funny every
22:45
time you read it. I so I thought on lines with
22:50
Aaron's theory. I actually thought his chemistry
22:56
with men was so much more than his actual female love interest.
23:02
Of course. I find that so that's why I'm
23:05
kind of team iron on this. But I do get a point, Hannah.
23:08
But I I just, I see when the actual kind of love story
23:13
happened, I was a bit like I. Don't think she I think it's
23:19
because she's like not in a the other men are kind of like in a
23:22
different position of power. I think by doing the Trojan
23:25
women as a play and raising that and even Medea like that, that
23:29
story too. It's kind of placing women in
23:32
terms of this like subservient, like the men get to do whatever
23:35
with them and like that's what he's doing with her.
23:37
He's like, I'm going to free you.
23:39
I'm going to do all these things like we're going to fall in
23:40
love. But to her, she's probably like,
23:42
well, I'm just a slave and I'm in this place and like, this is
23:45
my life, do you know? So I think, I think that's why
23:48
it's such a it falls flat because she I don't think she is
23:51
into him. Like, I think she's just like
23:53
she's fulfilling the role of a woman at this time who is
23:57
subservient to all these men and like will just become a token if
24:00
the Athenians do, you know, had one or whatever, like.
24:03
She has the potential to be, like, free in quotations, like
24:07
from the bar. Yeah.
24:09
So like, she's like, oh, maybe I'll just be in this loveless
24:14
relationship. Free.
24:17
From the bar I. Didn't really see it from that
24:20
point of view, but I think you've made a good point.
24:21
They're calling because I just thought like from the minute she
24:24
was kind of introduced to the story.
24:25
And then when he's like actually speaks to her and he's like, I'm
24:29
in love and you're like, you're not stop.
24:32
It and he insults so much, like actually being endearing with
24:38
her. He's just like, oh, your teeth
24:41
are messed up and you're really muscly.
24:45
I mean, all the back men say those things, you know, that's.
24:48
The part of the thing it's like. Yeah.
24:52
Women will fall. Because I think there's even the
24:56
thing where they get a man to perform women.
24:58
So like, you know, Medea is performed, Cassandra is
25:01
performed by a man. Like they're all performed by
25:02
men and I think that's kind of it's not drag, but it's the over
25:06
dramatizing of these women because they said there's like a
25:08
big emotional bit where like someone's really oh, I can't
25:11
remember the line, but was it something like feminine, like
25:15
releasing the feminine urge or something, something like that?
25:18
Words like, yeah, they're they're hamming up these women.
25:21
Like women in this are not treated as women at or in or
25:25
day. You know, these women are like a
25:27
over sexualized on stage and as these men are portraying them
25:33
and they're shaking their hips and he doesn't see them as men
25:37
anymore. He literally sees them as their
25:39
female characters. And I think that's another thing
25:42
to indicate is he into these men because like.
25:47
He's there. He's like smacking them and
25:49
stuff and he's like, oh. Yeah, but like, I think that's
25:53
art. That's showing the power of art.
25:54
You know? He's getting lost in it.
25:56
He's not. He's not actually seen it like
25:58
he's seen characters, not performers.
26:01
I did like that part of it where he's kind of just like every
26:03
time he hears one of the performances, he's like, wow.
26:06
He was like, it was like some, some.
26:08
I think it's in the deal where Madea has been laughed by Jason
26:10
and he's like, he's really angry at Pasha's because he's like, he
26:16
thinks he is Jason at this point.
26:17
And he's like, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
26:19
Curious. He's like, I could have slapped
26:20
him for what he did to Madea. I did like that.
26:23
Whose elements of it? Because I was like, that is,
26:27
yeah, he really portrayed Galen and Lambeau's joy of seeing
26:31
these artistic performances in quite different ways.
26:34
But it kind of completed the kind of artistic and how people
26:37
enjoy art and how people like take it in in different ways.
26:41
Yeah, because I think Electo is the only woman in the story who
26:45
is like, actually given that some sort of like, power or
26:48
strength, you know, she's. Yeah, Yeah.
26:50
Like, she's the one who's like making this happen and like, I'm
26:54
like, in the end, she pulls a lot of strings to get to get the
26:58
the Athenians rescued. You know?
27:00
It's like she's like a big a big player in that sort of plan.
27:04
What did you guys think of the Irishman?
27:07
Oh tour, touring Turin. Turin, Turin.
27:12
Oh. Wow, name's Irish.
27:16
Yeah, and it implies that he's from like a.
27:18
Far Island. I did need to look up where what
27:22
10? What islands produce 10 It's.
27:25
Not it's just far away. I don't think it like I don't
27:29
know the exact thing but. I think, yeah, I think you're
27:31
right, Lucy. I think.
27:32
It was reading through it and I was going like all these
27:34
different names, very I don't know.
27:36
And then all of a sudden I was like, why is there an Irish?
27:38
Name we. It's like does this.
27:41
Happen, clarify that's the guy who owns the boat and travel.
27:44
The collector. Yes, the producer.
27:46
Oh, I have a question. I'm interested in everything.
27:50
Are you going to talk about the gods?
27:52
Yes, yes. Yes.
27:54
That they saw God or. So Aaron, you won't have seen
27:59
the the later bit where they actually talk about what what
28:02
Galen sees. OK, I thought it was.
28:05
I don't think you'll have no. No, no, I, I thought it was an
28:08
alligator, but then, oh, but just from the description of
28:13
like, there's something in the water that he's going for.
28:16
And I was like, this guy's well travelled.
28:18
Has he gone to Egypt? And do you know the way they've
28:21
got like a crocodile God or whatever?
28:24
And I thought like it was it a crocodile?
28:27
And but then in the next chapter, that's whenever the
28:33
crocodile shoes or boots are introduced.
28:36
And I was like, I don't think it would have been the.
28:39
Same. Creature and so no I.
28:41
The Crocs. The Crocs.
28:42
The Crocs. So I am curious what what
28:45
creature was it? I don't know.
28:47
Nothing. No, he he says that he saw his
28:50
son and and something else and I can't remember what the other
28:55
thing was. Turin in Irish mythology is one
28:58
of the first, I think. Like what's the, there's a word
29:03
for it, Like really sad mythological stories is like one
29:06
of the first tragedy tragedies of Irish mythology.
29:09
I think. I don't, I don't know.
29:11
I kind of looked it up there at the time, but I don't really
29:13
remember because I hadn't really.
29:14
But he's a God in Irish mythology, and I was assuming, I
29:18
just kind of assumed it was like a little Irish God or something
29:21
that gave him, gave him the party to see his.
29:25
Yes, he Gallon says that he like so lamp was like but was it
29:29
real? And gallons like, but Galen's
29:32
like, yeah, I mean, I saw what I saw, but he doesn't actually
29:35
like he's not evil to be like this was real.
29:38
Like he do you know, he's it's like, is this what he wants to?
29:41
See. And and by being told as he's
29:43
being influenced to seeing a God in this bucket or.
29:46
Whatever Galen throughout multiple times thinks he sees
29:50
his ex and so is he really to be trusted that what he thinks he's
29:56
seen or who he thinks he's seen was actually there?
30:00
Yeah, but Lambo gets so afraid of actually seeing the God and
30:04
it physically is like, I has to leave because he's like, I can't
30:07
see this. But like I I'm curious as to
30:10
what like why that is. Is it just like a sign of Lambo
30:13
is like, do you know, kind of lost as a person?
30:16
Like he's just, he doesn't want. I kind of took it as like Lambo
30:21
hasn't had that much tragedy happened to him and Lambo
30:25
hasn't, I mean, has a real fear. And I, I think that people who
30:30
like are more fearful because these things haven't happened to
30:35
them yet. But once you've been hurt by
30:37
something where like you have a car for like real fear.
30:39
I don't think that Gallon is afraid of anything really.
30:43
And he doesn't care. He wants to put on his play.
30:46
But if someone killed him the next day, I don't think he's.
30:49
I don't think like really knows what he wants either.
30:53
I think he's just casually from a long life and he would happily
30:56
would have been like, what was he working as again?
30:59
Like a Potter? Yeah, like I think his life.
31:02
Was actually like. A Potter and that was to be it.
31:06
So the idea of dreaming any bigger it just doesn't seem
31:10
like. Yeah, that's true.
31:11
But I think that the God was or the potential God was
31:17
interesting thing to bring up because throughout it's not a
31:21
huge theme, but it's definitely in the background where it seems
31:27
to be a reflection of. I don't know about Ferdi Lenin
31:31
in terms of what his religious background is, but Ireland
31:36
obviously very famous for its Catholic history and now has
31:43
very much departed and distanced itself from that.
31:47
But there are obviously still existing structures and
31:51
connections to Catholicism within Ireland.
31:54
But people have really moved away from the church.
31:58
Throughout this book, there are multiple references to people
32:02
moving away from religion. And there are random points
32:05
where people will be like, do you believe in the gods?
32:08
And they're they never go too deep into the conversation.
32:12
But I think is Lampo in that mindspace of I don't believe,
32:23
but he can't say for sure because what if he says he
32:27
doesn't believe and then there actually are the gods and he
32:30
doesn't want to fully pick a side.
32:33
So maybe he doesn't want to see this God because he doesn't want
32:37
it to be confirmed. So if he never sees it, he gets
32:40
to like live in that in between of is there or is.
32:45
There Yeah, but then but then it makes me think like in Trojan
32:49
women in Medea, like gods, just like have you know the plotter a
32:52
plot elements in them like do you know Troy was aided like the
32:57
the battle of Troy, like Apollo do you know kills Achilles and
33:00
then it like, you know, let's the victory or whatever
33:03
happened. Like there's the gods are used
33:06
as plot elements in these in these like phase.
33:09
And I wonder if by including the God in this way in the story,
33:14
whether the God has influence or isn't because like you could
33:16
like, you know, Achilles might just have died not being because
33:20
of Apollo aims the hour or whatever and our infuses the
33:23
hour. I can't remember the actual like
33:25
story I think. Paris the arrow, But is it under
33:28
the will of Apollo or something? Yeah, something that's supposed
33:31
to be that it will kill like it's like blessed by a God in
33:34
some way. But it could be that like by
33:37
mimicking that sort of a God influencing like they want to
33:41
see a God or maybe they do see a God.
33:43
But again, it's like those other stories that maybe they're gods.
33:45
The gods never like intervened. It's just people are putting
33:48
that religious aspect on it and adding that into the stories,
33:51
you know, because you have to think like religion at this
33:53
time, like it's not, it's not going to be how we would think
33:57
of it. They have a multitude of gods
33:58
and they all probably had, you know, different ones that they
34:00
prayed to regularly or believed in somewhat.
34:05
So I think like, like, why wouldn't, why wouldn't they
34:08
believe a God was in a bucket? Because the gods come in all
34:10
these different shapes, rather than the Christian God you know,
34:14
which is very clear how we're told these gods can be anything,
34:17
you know? Well, whenever he's going on the
34:19
date to the beach, they walk past a priest and who looks
34:24
after a shrine or a temple, and he gives off about how this
34:30
priest is taking people's money or something.
34:33
And he was like, oh, no wonder people don't believe or no
34:36
wonder people aren't religious these days.
34:38
And then they go on their date and there's Thunder.
34:41
And he's like, oh, Zeus is sending a message that we're
34:43
supposed to be together even within the span of like that one
34:47
date. He talks about like, no wonder
34:49
people don't believe in religion anymore.
34:51
But then at the same time is like taking a sign from nature
34:55
that this is the gods, like giving him a sign.
34:57
I just find this whole relationship uncomfortable
35:00
sometimes, this idea of like buying someone, like I just like
35:06
slaves and yeah. Because he thinks it's a
35:09
romantic gesture to be like, I will buy your freedom, you know?
35:12
But the freedom he's buying is then not imprisoning her, but
35:16
like, in some way making her like, servile to him, you know,
35:20
like. It's yeah.
35:21
Theory doesn't end, it isn't into him like.
35:23
That No. And that makes me think as well
35:26
about when they sell the armor and they get all the money and
35:30
his job is to like, get the green and stuff to feed people.
35:33
And immediately he just goes out and buys the Crocs and the
35:38
outfits and gets his hair done. And it's trying to live this
35:41
like fancy life for a day. And then it's like realizing
35:44
like what he's done. But then Gilon, is that how you
35:47
say it? Yeah.
35:48
Gallon. Gallon.
35:49
I got confused. Gallon.
35:51
I don't think there's a right or wrong here.
35:53
Oh, I just don't want to be mocked on the Internet, Lucy.
35:56
Well, if there's someone from ancient Syracuse wants to,
36:00
please write. Yeah, please contact us.
36:02
Please let us know. Use your stone tablets or
36:05
whatever you like to write us a message.
36:08
Corrections corner will definitely yeah, but like when
36:11
his friend like doesn't tell them for like he's not mad at
36:16
him or anything he just yeah, I just yeah like their
36:20
relationship is like quite. But I think that I the way I
36:23
read that was like Ellen knows what he's like and he's like,
36:27
like he had his on his hands are tied.
36:29
He was like, I need to be doing all these things.
36:31
But the easiest job, the one that he's going to mess up the
36:33
lease, is going to get food for. These people.
36:36
And like, he still turns out with food, but I think gallons
36:38
like, oh, this is Egypt, you know, like, of course he bought
36:41
himself Crocs. I mean, who would it?
36:43
I know crocodile Crocs, like, come on.
36:48
I'm just like the interest of me is like the need to put on this
36:53
play. I don't know.
36:55
It's like it comes across sometimes, like it's kind of
36:57
like save the day in a way, like make everyone enlighten them and
37:01
it's going to be the greatest thing on earth.
37:03
And just this need for the character to like pursue
37:08
everything to put on this play. I just, I don't know, maybe I
37:12
need to be more ambitious. I I did love the fact that it
37:17
was like he he does not really care that much about the
37:22
Athenians. Like he doesn't not gallon this
37:24
is he doesn't not care about them, but he really he he has
37:28
like an almost blinkered view of like, I'm putting on this play
37:33
and I don't care about anything else.
37:36
Like he wants them to be fed because he wants them to put on
37:40
the play. It's like if they couldn't speak
37:44
the same language as him and he didn't understand them, It's
37:46
like he's never going to be near that pet.
37:48
He's never going to be in there. He's not like this altruistic
37:51
guy who wants the best Athenians.
37:54
It's like it's a very transactional thing with him.
37:56
And it's a weird thing because it's like, obviously art, but it
38:00
is so strangely transactional. I was wondering what you guys
38:05
thought of this is. I don't know if this was the
38:08
writing for me or if I've missed something, but like, there's
38:12
like a bunch of kids that are kind of like helping out with
38:14
the production. Yeah.
38:16
And there's this one. I think it's Strawberry.
38:17
He's like the small one. And there's a part of Trojan
38:21
Woman Woman where Andromache throws a baby out of the, I
38:30
don't know, the castle tar, wherever.
38:31
They are, yeah. And I honestly thought the way
38:35
it was built up and the way that the story was going, I was like,
38:38
this child is going to die. Yeah, it seemed like it was
38:42
going there, this. Is like, this is such a red
38:44
herring because it just kept talking about everyone going,
38:46
no, you can't do that. You can't throw a real yeah.
38:48
And he practices the fall and it's like he keeps getting it
38:51
correct and it implies like it's not going to go.
38:53
Correct. Yeah, I was just like, because,
38:55
like. No, we've got this built up idea
38:58
of that this child is going to die so that you don't see the
39:00
other bit come in where? Yeah, deflection.
39:07
What do you call the guy who bashes in people's head?
39:10
Yeah, I did not see that. I loved that part because it
39:14
shocked me, not because I love violence or but I was just
39:19
expecting in my what I thought was going to happen is this that
39:21
he's going to go on. It was going to be amazing.
39:23
It was going to be revolutionary and like change people's
39:25
complete opinions. And then when I seen like them
39:28
getting their bash their heads, then I was like, oh, this is not
39:31
going high expected at all. Like I had such optimism that
39:35
this is going to like change the world.
39:38
We should probably explain that for people who are like, in case
39:42
you've decided to go through with this with the spoilers.
39:44
But there's a part in the book where there's a guy who's very
39:48
angry about the fact that his son had been killed by the
39:52
raiding Athenians. And he, he just goes down to the
39:56
pit, just takes himself to the pit just to like bludgeon to
39:59
death, random Athenians, just sort of vengeance for his son.
40:03
And then in the middle of the play, there's a lot of people, a
40:05
lot of the Athenians aren't happy that the play is going
40:07
ahead. Not certain Athenians, a lot of
40:09
the Syracusans aren't happy that the play is going ahead,
40:12
especially this guy bitten. And then eventually almost the
40:17
ending of Trojan Woman when they've put this play on, he
40:21
just comes and starts bludgeoning them to death like
40:24
the all the actors. And yeah, it's quite.
40:27
It's quite. Stark.
40:29
Yeah, but I think that again, cuts, cuts with the same theme
40:32
of like this violence. Do you know like these people
40:35
are using art and like this is the thing that like this
40:38
violence is still like simmering beneath this.
40:41
Like they're they're they're the people who they're playing,
40:44
doing this play from are the same people who came and killed
40:47
all these people. Like it's do you know, it's the
40:50
thing overall, like the entire book is just very, very meta.
40:53
And I think like even how it ends with like, sorry, Aaron
40:58
again, like pashes, patches, whatever is telling the story of
41:04
what of what Lampo did like putting on this player to
41:10
Euripides with Euripides, It's Euripides right at the end.
41:13
Yeah, to Euripides himself. So it's like this weird full
41:17
circle thing of like the story being told while also telling
41:23
Euripides a story at the same time.
41:26
Like the entire like, do you know, using art as a form of
41:28
like communicating these things? I don't know.
41:31
I just love meta stuff. And I think like, it's
41:33
interesting using storytelling as a meta device in a way to
41:37
like get across that we're all the same.
41:40
Yeah, I I so for me, I actually thought the ending was was a
41:47
parts of it that I liked, but I actually thought I would really
41:49
let the book down. I think this I so I liked the
41:54
bit I thought it was it was all a bit convenient, a lot of the
41:58
stuff that happened. But I think that one bit I liked
42:02
was they all of the Athenian, the Athenians that they've
42:07
rescued from the pets are all being taken across Syracuse to
42:12
meet a boat. And basically as they're going
42:16
through, sorry, not across Syracuse, across across Sicily.
42:19
And they're they're going across Sicily and they they pass a time
42:24
that has been previously devastated by the Athenian
42:28
soldiers. And Lampo keeps asking them like
42:32
what happened in this, like a lot of he asked a lot of
42:36
different kind of key battles. He's like, what happened?
42:38
And the Athenians don't say anything.
42:39
And then as they pass through, I can't remember because I did
42:42
actually read this a while ago. I can't remember exactly what
42:45
happened, but he's like they, they're walking through this
42:47
time and it's like destroyed completely.
42:50
They're finding like kids toys or stuff something.
42:54
I think I'm mixing this up with that scene in Milan where.
43:00
Easily done, Lucy, easily done. Do you know what they're like
43:03
going past And like, Genghis Khan's been there.
43:05
Is it Genghis Khan? I don't remember Milan that
43:07
well, but it kind of reminded me of that.
43:09
And it's like you, you're like, put in mind of like children
43:13
dying and like all these horrific things.
43:15
And Athenians aren't like, happy about being back there.
43:18
But it just brings it all back to you.
43:20
These people have committed atrocities in Sicily.
43:24
And I almost thought for a second, like Gallon and Lampo
43:30
especially because Gellan's child has died and that's,
43:32
that's part of his story. And I kind of was like, are they
43:36
just going to be like, no, and just kill the Athenians just
43:39
there and then? But they they don't.
43:42
Spoiler alert. But I kind of was like, I would
43:44
have liked them to have said something about it, like to
43:48
acknowledge this thing that Lampo and Gellan have both been
43:53
ignoring this fact that nobody else in Syracuse has been
43:56
ignoring this fact. It's like they are ignoring the
43:57
fact that these Athenians have have done something.
44:00
And I guess it's maybe like I wanted some kind of like end to
44:07
those things, but I, I don't know.
44:10
And I didn't, I just did not like the the love story plot at
44:13
all. And that annoyed the end.
44:15
I kind. Of yeah but in the end, like the
44:18
love story ends in a way that's like.
44:21
I mean, Thingy gets freedom, or at least we assume Lyra gets
44:27
freedom, you know, with. Turin, yeah, I love that he
44:29
steals her away. Like, yeah, because I don't feel
44:33
sorry for Lampo at all because he was going to buy her.
44:38
Like So it's not as if he was doing this big massive fever in
44:42
a way to do it. So I don't feel any like Hardy
44:44
for him missing light. But but there's the thing too.
44:47
Again, she's just the two like she's a singer and that's why
44:50
terrain. Yeah, yeah.
44:51
Because he's like, he wants to hear her sing forever.
44:54
And again, she's still like it's art, but she's still just an
44:58
object for these men to it's transactional.
45:00
You know, they're he's came and claimed her just like the the
45:04
Athenians are like didn't Troy the Trojan women were claimed,
45:08
you know, after the battle and Steph.
45:10
For me, the female characters, there was so few of them and the
45:15
few that we did get just were not very well developed.
45:19
They felt very one-dimensional. I'm curious what you guys
45:24
thought of that. I don't think all books to be
45:26
need to be like very inclusive in a way, if that makes sense.
45:30
And I think sometimes there's a purpose in writing obviously
45:35
certain characters in a way, but obviously at the time, men were
45:39
of great greater importance than women and the idea that women
45:44
are in the background. But like, that's why I was so
45:46
surprised is that Alex Lexo no Electo that she had that great
45:53
role of producing like these beautiful pieces, you know, like
45:57
scenery pieces and that although she did have two slaves now that
46:00
I remember like. Yeah, but I think like that,
46:05
that's like, I mean, I'm not excusing Electo here, but that
46:09
is of the time. And I think like This is why I
46:11
disagree with like your point about the women being badly
46:14
ridden. I think Electo firstly is one of
46:17
the strongest in terms of like a woman who knows what she's doing
46:20
and she's like got this, the strength and like scale and
46:23
talent behind her. Like that's, you know, clearly
46:25
useful. But I think Lyra as well, like
46:29
she is, she's there's not much to her because this woman is a
46:33
slave like she she hasn't had the chance to to be become
46:38
anything. And she's just living this life
46:40
where she's been told what to do by this.
46:41
This man dismissed. And do you think there's a fear
46:44
almost of like can't talk about where she's from and all the
46:48
things because that could make her like a target almost.
46:53
And I don't know. I don't think they were overly
46:57
badly written. I don't know.
47:00
I just I think I'm kind of team are in here because I just.
47:03
What is happening today, Lucy? I know.
47:06
Yeah, why are you in agree with our this never happens.
47:09
Well, I just I, I didn't. So this is also maybe slightly
47:15
controversial. I can't remember the name of the
47:16
character, but you've said it a few times, Holland and Elect
47:21
Elect. I didn't think she was that
47:24
great a character and I I almost thought she was like a shoo in
47:30
to be like, oh, women can do stuff in this world as well,
47:35
like token character of that kind of been like it's not just
47:39
a boys book and I don't think that's not like that necessary.
47:41
I think her her character could have been a man wouldn't have
47:45
like not to say that there weren't women doing those kind
47:49
of things back then, but I don't know.
47:52
I don't know enough about the history behind it.
47:54
Greek mythology is there's so many goddesses.
47:56
Isn't it like Athens named after Athena?
48:00
Like, yeah, you're like there's a lot of strong women, but then
48:03
I don't think the certain. I think Sparta were actually
48:06
pretty forward thinking about women and but I don't, I
48:12
actually don't know anything about Athens and their view on
48:13
women. But like, I, I don't know, I
48:17
just didn't. I didn't really like.
48:19
But the but the gods too are abused, like female gods are
48:22
abused by the man in their stories.
48:24
So I think what what party? I mean, to give him some credit
48:28
here, I think he's using these women still in that way.
48:30
Like it's the meta commentary of these goddesses, like like
48:34
Persephone or or like, do you know Hera?
48:38
Hera. Yeah.
48:40
Zeus's wife. Yeah.
48:41
Like, I mean, all these women are like treated badly because
48:43
of their their husbands, but a lot of these women are gone in
48:46
this world, like because gallons, you know, just doesn't
48:49
have like a partner. Yeah.
48:52
And like, I think it's that maybe also it's getting poor
48:56
across the point that a world without women like this, you
48:58
know, it kind of leads to maybe more violence and, and people do
49:02
violence for women, you know? So like, I don't, I don't mind
49:06
those themes and stuff. I just didn't.
49:08
I thought those were the poorest parts of the book writing wise.
49:12
It's not that I don't want women to be in the book.
49:16
It I think that's where it kind of for me was like I'm enjoying
49:19
all enjoying all the bits about the plays.
49:21
I'm enjoying with the war stuff, but I just thought when it came
49:24
to those aspects, I was like, I just I was like this this to me
49:30
isn't great. These parts.
49:33
If this book had been those parts, I would have not liked
49:37
that book, you know what I mean? Like I would have just been
49:40
like, this is, you know, it just kind of felt shoehorned in.
49:44
It was like that he's going through this like weird romance
49:46
that is. And I and I agree, like she's
49:49
not fleshed out for a reason and I don't really need her to be
49:52
fleshed out, but I just didn't care at all.
49:55
And I thought a lot of the things about it were just so
49:57
convenient, like getting the right amount of money and all
50:00
that stuff. Like, of course, yeah.
50:03
I just didn't. I was like, I'm more interested
50:05
in other things. Like he could have spent that
50:07
time writing those bits doing something more interesting to
50:11
me. Yeah.
50:12
Like I agree with you in the overall sense of like I do think
50:15
the story is very convenient and things just kind of happen.
50:18
You're like, OK, this we're just going going with this.
50:20
Like you like, for example, like getting the prisoners out, you
50:23
know, rescuing them near the end.
50:25
It's like, oh, OK, so we get all the named characters and like,
50:28
you know, it would be an almost more interesting if Pat patches
50:32
patches wasn't there, you know, because like, I think like
50:37
things are things just lined up in a way that's like, Oh yeah,
50:39
this is, you know, just working on like Electro just happened to
50:43
like, you know, C be on his side with like getting the prisoners
50:48
out and all these things where like I do.
50:50
I do think there's a bit of a plot conveniences that have been
50:52
like kind of written in. Yeah, I will have one or two
50:55
plot conveniences, but I have that he was taken.
51:00
Yeah, I was kind of and in different ways I thought the
51:03
plot conveniences, I was a little bit like that.
51:04
That's for me why the end just didn't.
51:08
And I to be completely honest, the writing style at times I
51:13
thought was like maybe trying to be a bit too funny.
51:15
And I was like, not like, it's very engaging and it's very
51:19
readable. Like very.
51:20
Yeah. And it was for me.
51:22
It was quite a quick read, like a.
51:24
Yeah, it was. It's kind of like conversational
51:27
sometimes I think the style it's like quite casual and it's like
51:30
you're, it's like, it's like inner monologue but like really
51:33
trimmed back to like a very clean, very simple, simple way
51:37
of like telling it. You know, near the end where
51:41
Lumpo was having that idea of, like, helping the prisoners
51:44
escape and Gallon is like, doesn't want to get out of bed.
51:49
Like, I know he's really injured, but he's kind of, like,
51:51
almost seems to have given up in a way.
51:56
I was, yeah. I was quite surprised at that
51:58
because I almost thought it would be Lumpo who'd be the one
52:01
not to occur as much at times. But I think The thing is,
52:05
Lampo's actually formed relationships with these people,
52:07
whereas Gallon has kind of almost treated it
52:09
transactionally. Yeah, I can see that, yeah.
52:12
This is my problem with it. Like some of the parts I thought
52:15
were really like, I understand why people rated this so highly.
52:18
Yeah. It just fell short on like a few
52:21
things for me, like the ending. And I also, Colin was mentioning
52:24
it where at the end they're in Athens with Euripides and I, I'm
52:30
going to have to say, Colin, I really didn't like that.
52:32
But I was like, I don't need to know.
52:36
I don't need to. Know what?
52:37
What made you not like it? See when because you don't
52:40
actually know it's Euripides, you're actually kind of like
52:42
what is happening. It's like an Apple Logie kind of
52:44
bit. And I was like, I remember
52:46
thinking, I was like, see if this is Euripides, if this will
52:49
manage Euripides, I'm going to be fuming because I just, I
52:53
don't need to know what Euripides thinks about this.
52:55
Like I don't like it as well because it's like I find it kind
53:00
of weird when people write in historical figures.
53:03
And there was a guy mentioned who was a general in the
53:07
Athenian army. And there's a couple of people
53:09
that are, I believe, or were real people at the time.
53:13
But like, I just don't, I don't like those elements of things.
53:18
I think you either have to go all out and go like full Hilary
53:21
Mantel and you're like, I'm going to write exactly what
53:23
Thomas Cromwell was doing, but I don't like tacked on real people
53:28
at the end. So I'm coming on strong with
53:32
that one for Dia. So we'll know for next time.
53:37
Colin, would you give it an alternative title?
53:39
I am honestly, I haven't thought of a title for this one, mostly
53:44
because I kind of was everything I was thinking of.
53:46
I was like it's just none of it is like working and I actually
53:49
think glory is exploits. It's not a great title either
53:51
for the theme. Like, it's not a bad title, but
53:54
but like, I don't think it conveys really what we're like
53:57
trying about the heat 3011 is trying to get across, you know?
54:00
Yeah. It's and sorry, it's interesting
54:03
that like so I went to Belfast book festival and they had an
54:08
art piece which was translated versions of Irish fiction and
54:12
throughout the place and there was a section with a couple of
54:16
different Ferdia then and I think I took a photo.
54:19
We could put it up on the Instagram, but the titles I was
54:23
like, these are not, that's not like I don't know very many
54:25
other languages, but I don't know any other languages.
54:29
I was like, that is not translated to Glorious Exploits.
54:33
It's like there's so many weird. Like I remember reading one of
54:36
them and going I roughly could, I think it was like Spanish or
54:39
something and I could like roughly work out what I thought
54:42
it meant. And I was like a better title
54:45
than glorious exploits. But I do kind of like glorious
54:48
exploits because it's like, you know what you've got from a war
54:52
kind of thing, and then they've got these plays that's kind of
54:56
like what they've been. Given, I know this is usually
54:59
Colin's corner, but I have a suggestion for an alternative
55:03
title. Lucy's gonna.
55:04
On our entire, our entitled. Corner I think this could be
55:08
either the best thing in the world or the worst thing in the
55:10
world, so we'll just know by our fateful reaction.
55:13
So being that this is based on a couple of Greek tragedies, why
55:18
not just name it Greek tragedy? NO22 Classic.
55:23
We should call it the Pit. Or alternatively, we could call
55:26
it Greek Comedy since it is a comedy.
55:31
Yeah, no, I feel like a Greek comedy maybe works, but I don't
55:34
know. I think like something in my
55:36
head I was thinking something like similar to Trojan Women
55:38
where it's like, you know, Syracuse, a man or something.
55:41
But that's so on the nose. That's the only one I could
55:43
think of that was separate from Gloria.
55:45
Like this that I was like, oh, that's sort of, sort of fits.
55:48
And we don't talk about these all of the time, but what about
55:51
adoptions? Could you see this being adopted
55:53
to a play? To a movie, ATV show?
55:56
Something else? I think a movie or a play upon a
56:01
play kind of thing. Yeah, I think a play would work.
56:03
The entire time I was reading it, I was picturing it as a film
56:08
with a couple of specific actors.
56:11
Killian Murphy, Killian. Murphy that's so funny being you
56:15
said that same. Time, guys.
56:18
Yeah, you're right, Lucy. For Gallon, I think it will be
56:21
Paul Meskel. Paul Meskel, Yeah.
56:24
James Nesbitt has Lampu. Yeah, just because Gallon is
56:31
described as being classically attractive for a Lamppo.
56:34
Brad Barry Kogan. Yeah, that's exactly who I was
56:36
thinking of. I can say that, yeah.
56:39
So another tweet that we've talked through the book, taught
56:42
chat through all the themes, all the characters.
56:45
Let's give this book a really not a five.
56:47
I think I would give this book 4 out of five.
56:51
Wow, done. A few reasons.
56:54
I think it was just fun, easy to read.
56:57
I think our conversations have made me actually enjoy the
56:59
themes more than I did when I was actually reading it.
57:02
And I think when I read, I was kind of like, this is a little
57:04
shallow or a bit like there's not much going on here.
57:07
But the more I've tried it, I'm like, you know, I like it.
57:09
I don't think the book is setting the world on fire.
57:11
And I think there were some thought conveniences and stuff,
57:13
but for pure enjoyment and the kind, it was kind of book that
57:18
kind of got me through reading slump or has like helped me in
57:21
the reading slump. Like I think I think it's a four
57:24
out of five. I think like, I'm glad that he's
57:26
won this award and like hearing the story of him of this taking
57:29
seven years to write. And I'm yeah, I feel like that's
57:34
solid. So I I actually, I really love
57:38
themes of it and I I enjoyed a lot of the plot.
57:42
Most of the plot. I really enjoyed characters I
57:44
thought were really good characters I thought were
57:47
weren't great, but and there was the writing really was the part
57:53
from me that let it down. I don't I don't know if that
57:56
gelled massively with me. It was very quick and it was
57:58
very easy read, but I don't I don't know if I thought this is
58:03
like particularly, I think this is probably the reason why it
58:06
wasn't long listed with the Booker.
58:07
I don't think it's particularly literary and, and I am a bit of
58:12
a snob in regards to that. And I I would give it a three.
58:18
And that's probably because of the writing is the reason that
58:21
it didn't get higher, because I think the themes are really,
58:24
really interesting. And then there was some parts of
58:26
the plot that I was a bit like, I'm not interested in this part
58:29
of it. If it had been shorter and left
58:33
some parts out, I think I would have really, really loved it.
58:35
And if it had been less convenient, the plot lines, I
58:38
think I would have really, really loved it because I loved
58:40
just the theme of the Athenians being in the pit and putting on
58:43
the play. There was the bets I thought
58:44
were amazing. And if it had been just to that
58:48
probably would. And also, sorry the God and the
58:50
Irishman, but yeah. So I'm giving it a three out of
58:52
five. This is so surprising because
58:55
usually it's Colin given the brutal review.
58:58
Yeah. No, it is.
58:59
No, we were inverted to that. What is going on today like Lucy
59:02
agreeing with Aaron, Colin giving a book a high score like.
59:06
This is a weird. Episode I would give it, I'm
59:13
going to give it a three and a 3.5 out of five.
59:16
I really enjoyed the book because it got me out of a
59:19
reading slump as well. Like Holland, because right
59:22
after this I was like flying through a few books and I did
59:27
really like particular like themes of the book and I really
59:31
liked what Lucy said about the God scene.
59:35
And I also really enjoyed them actually putting on the play and
59:41
the suspense of it all. I just don't know if it was
59:44
completely for me, but I appreciate what it did like it.
59:49
It was easy and it was quick and I can't understand why lots of
59:52
people would really like it. Aaron, what do you think so far
59:56
of the What are your friends? Upon completion of this book,
1:00:01
I'm going to give it a solid 4 out of five and it definitely
1:00:06
was very enjoyable and there are some issues that I have with it,
1:00:11
but they did not ruin my experience and I think everyone
1:00:14
should give this a go. So that brings to the end of
1:00:17
Talking about Doris Exploits, the next book we're going to be
1:00:20
reading. Another win from Lucy in the
1:00:23
poll is Confessions by Catherine Airy.
1:00:26
But before we get to that book, Lucy and I are going to be doing
1:00:30
a breakdown, chapter by chapter of Eden Shore.
1:00:34
I know we already did an episode on it, but there was way too
1:00:38
much to cover in just that one episode.
1:00:41
So we've decided that we're going to break it down chapter
1:00:43
by chapter. Please read along.
1:00:46
Those episodes are going to be coming out every Wednesday until
1:00:49
we've completed that series. There's only a few chapters so
1:00:53
it's it won't be too long. And we are also going to be
1:00:57
having an exclusive interview with Ashin Fagan, the author.
1:01:01
So if you have any questions, please send them through to us
1:01:04
and we will give them to him. Read along and share your
1:01:06
thoughts on Instagram and bookie's favorite book club.
1:01:09
That's what Danny under score MCE did.
1:01:11
They said they love, sorry, loved.
1:01:16
Thanks, Danny. That's hard to say.
1:01:18
Thanks, Danny. You can also e-mail us at
1:01:21
bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com. Now remember that there is a
1:01:25
union favorite to any of our American listeners.
1:01:29
A big thank you to our bookie for this episode, Marie Hearn.
1:01:33
Her details are linked below as well.
1:01:36
And check the links to all our socials in the description of
1:01:38
this episode. Subscribe on whatever podcast
1:01:41
platform you're listening on so you don't miss the next
1:01:44
episodes. Yep, share this episode where
1:01:47
the book lover you think would like this book create the
1:01:49
podcast. Podcast 5 stars finishing on a
1:01:52
quote by Ferdia Lennon from Doris Exploits something to take
1:01:55
us home. The hearts of men are alike
1:01:57
wherever you go. The rest is scenery bookies out
1:02:02
bookies. Bye.
1:02:04
Bookies out. Bye.