Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / Candy Crimes and Halloween Treats from Yesteryear

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Candy Crimes and Halloween Treats from Yesteryear · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:30
  Everybody in serial killer country.
• 0:32
  My name is Brittany. Ransom, and my name is Brian
• 0:34
  Joiner. And this is when Killers get
• 0:36
  caught a podcast of what at the Deep dives into the Killer's.
• 0:39
  We love to learn about. Usually every week, Brian, I
• 0:42
  discussed is your group of stories that resonated with us
• 0:45
  and then I will lead you down the dark path of learning about
• 0:48
  who a killer was, how they grew up, how they killed.
• 0:51
  And most importantly how they got caught and Brian ends our
• 0:54
  podcast with a segment about the Paranormal, something about
• 0:58
  Cryptids or just the creepier side.
• 0:59
  And If we want to say thank you so much for listening and thank
• 1:02
  you to all the people who have been asking non-stop, when's the
• 1:05
  next podcast coming out because we've had a busy month.
• 1:10
  I think we're both pretty much started.
• 1:12
  New jobs, I got sick. I still sound sick.
• 1:16
  So you get what? You get and you don't get upset.
• 1:20
  As I tell the four-year-olds and my class.
• 1:24
  Yeah, this was the moving months for me, right?
• 1:27
  Yeah. And then you moved Yeah, I got
• 1:32
  both a booster and a flu shot, one weekend and I was just like,
• 1:36
  I can't do anything, but thank you so much.
• 1:40
  The people who listen, we really appreciate you and this week in
• 1:45
  True Crime. Something really wonderful
• 1:48
  happened. Brian yesterday.
• 1:49
  Are you ready? Let's go.
• 1:53
  They've arrested somebody for the Delphi murder case in
• 1:56
  Indiana. What?
• 1:58
  Yep, it's been five years. I almost cried when I saw it.
• 2:03
  Like this is the case that I've been following for a long time.
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  Now, here's the thing, they weren't trying to release the
• 2:12
  man's name until tomorrow or no Monday.
• 2:16
  So October 31st but apparently people got that information and
• 2:22
  there. Release the photo as of today,
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  but of people who don't know what I'm talking about.
• 2:27
  On February, 13, 2017, family. Dropped off these two girls at
• 2:33
  What's called the money and high bridge in like Delphi in
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  Indiana. And the to gum girls were
• 2:41
  Liberty. And gosh why can't I remember
• 2:45
  her name? I'm staring at her face right
• 2:47
  now. Abby, Williams and Liberty
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  German. Yeah, and This it's weird to
• 2:54
  people who probably aren't from the area, but this path takes
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  you across this bridge that used to be like for trains.
• 3:01
  But now people just walk on it. And while the two girls were
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  having their, you know, fun thing, they were taken Snapchat
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  pictures. And at one point, a b definitely
• 3:15
  noticed that someone was following them and she took a
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  video on Snapchat of the And that's the only images we've
• 3:24
  ever had and we heard him say down the hill so that's why they
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  called it like the down the hill murder for a little bit of time
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  and so when they went to pick up the girls, they were nowhere to
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  be found. They called Libby cell phone.
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  It went unanswered. Eventually, it went straight to
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  voicemail which meant somebody turned it off or they let it
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  just died, the family started searching.
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  And then by late that afternoon, they contacted the Sheriff's
• 3:52
  Department. Apartment Sheriff lesson.
• 3:55
  Be pretty much was the one in charge here and originally you
• 4:00
  know generally it's weird because for most part we don't
• 4:05
  want to, they don't want to do missing persons cases, until the
• 4:10
  person has been missing for 24 hours, but in terms of
• 4:13
  children's, missing or abduction cases the kids normally dead
• 4:18
  within the 24 hour window The police were like, maybe they got
• 4:25
  lost, maybe they moved to a different Trail and they
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  couldn't find their way back their phones died.
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  The community didn't care. They went out looking that
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  night, the sun went down, the temperatures got very, very low
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  or member. It's winter and Tennis like,
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  this area of the country gets very, very cold.
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  Like, right now. We are getting weird like 70
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  degrees. Days, 20 degree nights.
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  It's very, very cold and it's not even winter yet right now.
• 4:58
  So February, we're talking about 0 degree, temps or less.
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  So they're like, you know, they searched well into the night and
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  then February 14th. Both the girls bodies were found
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  about a mile away from the trail.
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  The man whose property it was is no longer alive.
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  But there was some some interesting details about that.
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  Like, apparently they learned that he loved, he lied about
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  where he was the day. They went missing.
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  So that was really suspicious. There haven't released a whole
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  lot of evidence are the things that they've been looking up
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  because they don't want to It's a weird situation happens in
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  these cases that get picked up and become nationally known
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  because you don't want to give too much information, right?
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  And accidentally, tell your killer what, you know.
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  Yep, that's it. But what they did, eventually
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  release was the video. What they built and based on the
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  time of death and the cold and whatnot that video was taken.
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  Very close to when Libby died. So ultimately that video was
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  moments before Batman attacked them.
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  So okay, my question is, is it the man that was in the video?
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  Then that said, down to Hill. Yes.
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  Yes. Okay.
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  They heard him say was guys down the hill and they got two
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  sketches from people who were also on the trail that day.
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  And they release these like to kind of grainy photos that they
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  tried to what's the word magnify and that's all we had and it's a
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  white guy, wearing blue jeans, blue coat jacket or hoodie and
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  they immediately listed this guy as a person of interest they
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  didn't they release the audio clips, think about two weeks
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  later About in April of that year, they released the video
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  clip, they release the sketches about five months into the
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  investigation. They were able to pinpoint.
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  That there was a unknown vehicle that was through the area, but
• 7:35
  regardless, I'm just going to say his name because there's
• 7:38
  going to be a Public event on Monday where they give more
• 7:44
  information about how they got this guy, but his name is
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  Richard Allen. He has a history of violent
• 7:51
  offenses. People found people have been
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  doing the work ever since. His name has been released, they
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  pulled up Vine link, which contained two entries for a
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  Richie Matthew Allen Way, do not know the charges yet.
• 8:10
  We do know that he was in court on Friday October 28th,
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  unfortunately, because the local sheriff's don't want to release
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  everything yet. There is rampant speculation
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  going online right now, but I will be watching or I will keep
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  up with it and I'll probably watch the it's not an event but
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  you don't, I mean it's going to be a pulled the police talking
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  to the media on Monday. So I intend to watch it.
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  Yeah, I just remember another thing is that delphi's?
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  A small town like a 3,000 people.
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  So that was another reason why this was like, how do we not
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  know where this who this guy is exactly.
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  Like the always been there should have noticed him from the
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  freaking video. They took her home but the the
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  sketch yeah it feels solid. The only difference between what
• 9:03
  he looks like now and that is that his face is a little wider
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  now that he gained some weight but otherwise it looks right.
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  There was another guy that they looked into in 2019, but that
• 9:13
  ended up not and tips have been coming from around the entire
• 9:18
  country for the last five years. So I'm really just, I really
• 9:23
  hope this goes the right way. I know that their family needs
• 9:28
  the closure from this, you know, Libby and Abby's family needs.
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  It would probably feel good to finally have everything closed
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  and the person who hurt you Jim Behind Bars.
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  Absolutely. I just like, I remember when we
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  were talking about this, like, the first time and it was
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  brought up, and I was just like, it was so freaking scary.
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  Like the video that was posted. So scary.
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  Like got this one guy. Just creepily following you and
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  he's like, says something to you and it just chills are.
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  It's chose again. I'm just glad like they arrested
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  somebody for it and hopefully this is the right person that
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  did it and hopefully Justice is served.
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  So for this week for me, so Brittany.
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  So you work with small children, right solutely?
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  I do okay. So I know you heard of this
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  already but Take care workers, who decided to?
• 10:44
  Scare the crap out of children. Yeah at work.
• 10:47
  Okay. Look into it much because I like
• 10:51
  what I actually saw was I don't know if you know her Kita rose
• 10:55
  on Tick-Tock but she talked about it and how those people
• 10:59
  should be in jail and that was like, oh what happened?
• 11:05
  Well, she's right. Goodness gracious, I'm sorry.
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  Frog in his throat, they have been charged with multiple
• 11:16
  felonies. Wow.
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  Yeah, so it's for women in a casing there's that are facing
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  three counts of felony, child, abuse for this little prank,
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  they pulled. So anyway, doesn't know there's
• 11:34
  this video going around daycare worker.
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  She's wearing this Halloween mask gets all up in his little
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  kids face. It scares the crap out of her
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  and actually not even her. Like, just like multiple little
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  kids in the video and it's just, no, I never watched a video.
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  So I'm going to look it up now. Yeah.
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  And now says X daycare worker. Oh my God, that's a horrible
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  math, right? I don't like.
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  When I first started like the screenshot of it, I thought it
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  was like a scream mask, but no. No it's not scary.
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  Mask. Looks like one of those like
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  scary Japanese people but you know what I mean?
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  The scary Japanese ghosts. Yes yes.
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  Yeah, these kids were about like three or four years old so you
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  know they were losing their shit also judging by how little the
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  kids look. They look like they're about to
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  so they are. I work with the threes and
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  fours. Pre-K.
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  Oh so you think it's younger? These look younger than the kids
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  that I deal with these look very young like toddlers.
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  All poor babies, right? Yeah.
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  So my brother was the first one, right, right?
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  Oh my gosh. So my brother was the first one
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  who brought this to me. And I was like, I got to look
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  this up because it's like, of course, it's October, so spooky
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  season. I and people, I don't know what
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  they were thinking with, like, trying to scare little kids
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  Special to his horror mask like, no, no, absolutely not.
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  But it's happening in Mississippi and they Facing
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  possible prison time. So now, how many people were
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  involved in it? Was it just the lady in the
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  video? No.
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  They also bringing in the lady who filmed it and posted it.
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  It's saying for women, okay, that are involved in this.
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  I don't see all their names. I see three of the never mind.
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  I got Wait, no. I'm seeing five now.
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  Hold on a second. But as our first names, you got
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  mccandles. Yet Kilbourne Newman, Shelton
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  and Hudson. So they're apparently five women
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  for women. Yeah, it sounds like the entire
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  staff. Yeah.
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  For women are facing three counts of your child abuse.
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  And I'm not sure what's going on with the the other extra woman
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  in here. But yes, I just looked at it TMZ
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  said, two-year-olds. Yep.
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  I was right? They looked because I just like
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  the tiny tiny tables. Yeah.
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  It's wild. The one lady guess, her name is
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  Caitlin Johnson, her two-year-old was in the video,
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  and she talked to TMZ Oh yeah, I'm looking at mug shots yep.
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  All five of them. Yep, I guess one is facing
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  misdemeanor. Charges failure to report the
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  abuse. And I guess, simple, simple
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  assault. So yeah, the mom says she's not
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  even considering filing a lawsuit because she thinks they
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  won't ever get hired again, and they won't be able to pay the
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  damages. Absolutely not.
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  Oh my God. So terrible like that.
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  It's one thing to, you know, like okay for Halloween for
• 15:12
  like, trick-or-treat around our area.
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  It's Hollow trigger tree is Halloween, so write us here too.
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  Yeah, I was, I was like, you know, what would be funny and
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  cool for me to do was like, you know, how people like dress up
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  as like a scarecrow or something to sit out on the porch and just
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  have like, a candy Bowl in her lap waiting for kids to come,
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  try to grab some and then you just write girlfriends from
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  like--'cause. I remember that?
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  And you could like, just sit up. And that's enough to scare them
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  but just, like going around screaming at the kids and
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  apparently, the mom on TMZ I like I saw a little I clicked
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  away from my just now, but she said that her son was like
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  potty-trained and now he's not my God.
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  No, it's not like sleeping through the night and I'm like
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  you just undid months of hard work, this kids now afraid to
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  live, oh my God. Yeah they definitely traumatized
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  those children. Yeah.
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  Yeah. It's weird.
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  I don't know why anybody thought that was okay.
• 16:12
  Yeah but they're right though they probably won't ever be
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  allowed to work in child care. After I can absolutely not and
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  hopefully they do see some Type some jail time.
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  Yeah. Because that's unacceptable.
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  Yeah, that's what I got. Well, now to the main event I'm
• 16:31
  not going to be talking about One killer today.
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  Well, technically, I guess I'm going to be talking about one
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  killer in the midst of the total story, but this is more than
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  likely going to go up on Halloween.
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  And so, I have been very interested lately in the
• 16:49
  conversation around candy and murder.
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  And well, if you're listening and you're probably a millennial
• 16:56
  or Gen X, I'm sure your parents were like, we gotta wait to eat
• 17:01
  our candy until we can get home and change.
• 17:03
  Kit, or some variation of that. When we were young, Because when
• 17:08
  I grew up, we grew up with the fear that someone was going to
• 17:12
  poison or put razor blades or drugs or broken glass in your
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  candy and now in like 20 22, people are just openly mocking
• 17:23
  this. Like I've seen dozens of posts
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  on my timeline with people showing like, actually, that it
• 17:31
  was a really great one that somebody found they posted a
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  peek. You're like a Snickers that was
• 17:38
  broken and then in it was a piece of paper that said we've
• 17:44
  been trying to contact you about your extended car warranty.
• 17:51
  You know right now in our modern era, this is just kind of
• 17:55
  comical because there are a couple things that people know,
• 17:58
  one drugs are expensive and nobody's given those out for
• 18:01
  free. And but there's some some very
• 18:07
  real Real life situations that happened and we're going to talk
• 18:11
  about some of those today and essentially how what started as
• 18:18
  an urban legend based on the teeniest tiniest amount of
• 18:24
  Truth, turned into massive Hysteria.
• 18:31
  Because I remember like the police posting booby-trapped
• 18:35
  candy halls, and they would be like, they would have like, on
• 18:38
  the Nightly News, like a whole table full of candy with stuff,
• 18:43
  and in my head, I'm like, did y'all just make this up?
• 18:45
  They had to love because our just lying.
• 18:51
  Because every year brought more reports, but nobody ever died.
• 18:56
  So, of course, the question was, why in the world because at the
• 19:00
  height of the mass hysteria like sixty percent of parents
• 19:04
  believed that carrot like their kids were going to get hurt by
• 19:09
  candy. So why do we think this, right?
• 19:14
  Well, the first one that I could really find that I had a lot of
• 19:17
  information about what even a lot of information.
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  It was a small blurb. A newspaper in California, was a
• 19:23
  dentist who gave out candy coated laxatives to
• 19:27
  trick-or-treaters in 1959 and of course he did that because he
• 19:34
  was trying to teach them a lesson.
• 19:37
  And he was charged with outrage of public decency and the
• 19:41
  unlawful dispensing of drugs. He's only poisonous like it's
• 19:47
  like poisoning to yeah I mean you eat a piece of candy and
• 19:50
  then you feel terrible. Also laxatives sometimes do a
• 19:55
  number on people's systems. So the next big one happens in
• 20:00
  Long Island, New York, it's Halloween 1964.
• 20:06
  This takes place at the home of housewife Alan fail, Helen fail
• 20:12
  and it's literally PF e IL. So I don't know if I'm saying,
• 20:15
  it's feel or fail, but I think fail is funny because she did
• 20:18
  fail in this situation. Helen was giving out candy on
• 20:22
  Salem Ridge Road and two young. Teens Ali Stroker and her sister
• 20:27
  Irene. And another school friend
• 20:29
  stopped at Helens house, to get candy and Helen kind of tease
• 20:32
  them. And was like, aren't you a
• 20:33
  little old to be trick-or-treating?
• 20:34
  Then, you know, but Helen was a mom herself to a teenager and it
• 20:39
  seem like harmless ribbing. And she dropped like, a handful
• 20:42
  of what looked like candy into the teens pillowcases.
• 20:46
  They all went back to the Drucker, residence.
• 20:48
  And when they opened the bag, they found these weird napkins
• 20:52
  like they were like tied. Like a napkin was tied around
• 20:55
  it, and it was the looked like a bottle cap that had the poison
• 21:00
  symbol on the bottom of it. Those are called Aunt button.
• 21:04
  Ins and they are actually a poison that you sit out around
• 21:08
  your house. So the ants, eat it and die.
• 21:10
  Also what she dropped in their bags were steel wool pads and
• 21:15
  dog biscuits. So, at least and Irene's mom are
• 21:20
  like, there's actual poison in this bag and the police.
• 21:24
  Go to Helen and she's kind of blase about the whole thing.
• 21:28
  She's like, I told them it was a joke and obviously the poison
• 21:32
  was labeled poison. I just thought they You're too
• 21:34
  old to be out anyway. And no one really got hurt and
• 21:38
  the police were like there's potential.
• 21:41
  Someone could have gotten hurt. Absolutely, they could have not
• 21:45
  looked at the stupid label that you had on there and definitely
• 21:50
  try to eat that. Yeah.
• 21:52
  So she got charged and pled guilty to endangering children
• 21:57
  and she received a suspended sentence unfortunately for Ali,
• 22:02
  stroker, she told the New York, Sometimes that even like they
• 22:07
  talk to her later like 50 years later she said she never wore a
• 22:10
  costume or did anything halloween-related ever again.
• 22:12
  It really soured her to the holiday.
• 22:16
  That's now. Yeah.
• 22:20
  Right. After this newspapers, in
• 22:21
  Detroit, reported that people had given out live field, bubble
• 22:25
  gum and in Philadelphia, they reported that rat poison was
• 22:29
  given out. Neither of these events were
• 22:32
  proven Just making stuff up. Okay it is amazing.
• 22:38
  How like, how many articles in major newspapers complete bull?
• 22:46
  Also in 1970, the New York Times runs an article about this.
• 22:49
  That's also baseless this is the headline for this though.
• 22:52
  It's those Halloween goodies that children, collect this
• 22:55
  weekend on their rounds of trick-or-treating, pay bring
• 22:59
  them more horror than happiness. And the article just listed
• 23:05
  potential ways that candy could be tampered with.
• 23:09
  But so, it was just like, baiting people, right?
• 23:14
  I don't like it. I don't like it.
• 23:19
  Nothing. Now the next one is also the
• 23:23
  biggest and I'm sure, you know who I'm going to talk about.
• 23:27
  Hmm, I'm going to give you some background into what happened
• 23:30
  with Ronald Clark, O'Bryan most True Crime.
• 23:32
  People do know about him his name, they called him, the man
• 23:35
  who killed Halloween, this was Halloween, 1974, Ronald was 30
• 23:40
  years old, he was married to his wife, they need they lived in
• 23:43
  Deer Park Texas with her son, Timothy, who was Is eight and
• 23:47
  Elizabeth. Who was five?
• 23:49
  Ronald was an optician at the Texas at Texas State Optical in
• 23:52
  sharp town Houston. He was also a deacon at the
• 23:55
  Second Baptist Church and he sang in the choir and ran the
• 23:59
  local braz program for producers that need it.
• 24:02
  Ride to church events. They were your average
• 24:04
  middle-class family in the suburbs of Houston Ronald's.
• 24:07
  Pastor described him as a good Christian man and an
• 24:10
  above-average father. Now, of course, that was the
• 24:14
  surface and only his wife really knew what was going on in his
• 24:18
  life, which was that Ronald always had trouble, keeping jobs
• 24:23
  and at the time of this crime he was on job. 21 in the past 10
• 24:28
  years. Whoa.
• 24:30
  Yeah meaning he got fired or was allowed to resign on average two
• 24:35
  times a year and I say allowed to resign because he was
• 24:39
  constantly getting in trouble for either negligence on the Up
• 24:43
  or just outright fraud at the time you got arrested, the
• 24:48
  Opticians office were investigating him for stealing
• 24:51
  money. Now at this up to show his job,
• 24:56
  Ronald made about $150 a week and in today's money that's
• 24:59
  about 900 which is an okay amount of money if you live by
• 25:04
  yourself. And you don't have a car or any
• 25:07
  major responsibilities. But if you got two kids and a
• 25:10
  wife and like a mortgage or rent, nine hundred dollars a
• 25:15
  week isn't doing it for you. It barely covered their food and
• 25:20
  rent. We know that Ronald's car was
• 25:22
  about to be repossessed. He had defaulted on several
• 25:25
  loans and they were valued up to nearly a hundred thousand
• 25:29
  dollars. So obviously, you know, where
• 25:33
  we're going with this Halloween, 1974, and Texas is rainy.
• 25:39
  Ronald had both his kids and their name, or Jim Bates.
• 25:42
  And his two kids, the group decided to tell, go
• 25:45
  trick-or-treating and Pasadena Texas.
• 25:47
  In hopes of getting more goodies, you know Pasadena's a
• 25:49
  slightly nicer area, the night starts out normal, they come
• 25:54
  across a house with the lights off the kids ring the bell a
• 25:57
  couple times and then they move on Ronald's.
• 26:00
  Like I'm gonna, you know, see if this person's here and he
• 26:04
  catches up with them a couple houses later and in his hands
• 26:08
  he's holding these absolutely massive.
• 26:11
  They are 21 inch, Pixy Stix, tubes of candy and for anyone
• 26:15
  who's probably not from the US. Us Pixy Stix are legitimately
• 26:19
  sugar in a tube lightly flavored.
• 26:24
  There is no reason why we were allowed to eat these, his
• 26:26
  children, it was just right. Like it's more than other
• 26:29
  candies straight sugar. Yes, it is.
• 26:34
  He gives one to each of the kids and then he sees another
• 26:38
  neighborhood kid from his church and give someone to.
• 26:41
  So there are five of these tubes out there.
• 26:44
  Now like most parents when the nights over, you know, Ron Flag.
• 26:47
  Everyone can have one piece of candy before bed.
• 26:50
  Neither Timothy nor his sister were very interested in the
• 26:53
  giant Pixy Stix, but rondel kind of forced him.
• 26:56
  If he to picket the powdered sugar was stuck in the straw,
• 27:02
  which if you've had a pixie stick, you know, that's weird.
• 27:06
  That's the specialist. Yeah, why is it all right?
• 27:10
  It shouldn't. It should be should move freely
• 27:13
  through well, immediately after eating a mouthful to Timothy's.
• 27:17
  Like this is gross and so Ronald gets him a glass of Kool-Aid to
• 27:21
  wash it down and then puts Timothy to bed Timothy's dead
• 27:25
  within the hour. I'm going to say, it takes a
• 27:28
  special kind of horrible to do what Ronald did next.
• 27:31
  Because before he was even back in his own bedroom, his son was
• 27:36
  crying for his father and saying his stomach hurt and pretty much
• 27:40
  he held his son while the boy convulsed vomited and gasps for
• 27:46
  air before just Falling limp in the bathroom, he finally called
• 27:50
  911 and the ambulance rushed him to the hospital where he was
• 27:54
  Dead on Arrival. Now by sheer coincidence.
• 27:58
  Harris, County, prosecutor. Mike Hinton was working that
• 28:01
  night police intake. So he was picking up the phone
• 28:05
  calls that were coming in and he got a phone call from Pasadena
• 28:09
  about a dead child. So Mike jumps into action and
• 28:12
  calls dr. Joseph okay his name is like
• 28:15
  spell, J Achi MC Z YK. It's too many consonants y'all.
• 28:23
  She Kim sick but Kim's. Nick is the chief medical
• 28:28
  examiner in Harris County. So Mike explains the situation,
• 28:32
  A Doctor, Joseph. And the doctor immediately says,
• 28:36
  what does his breath smell like? And so Mike calls the morgue and
• 28:41
  ask them. And they're like, it smells like
• 28:44
  almonds. So, then Mike calls, dr.
• 28:46
  Joseph back and he's and dr. Joseph goes, that cyanide
• 28:50
  poisoning. So the following morning, the
• 28:54
  medic like the medical exam. He's absolutely 100.
• 28:56
  Right. The autopsy the following
• 28:58
  morning confirms that Not only was it cyanide, but he had
• 29:01
  consumed so much that it was enough to kill two adult men
• 29:04
  people like 400-pound kind of person.
• 29:09
  Now, Ronald handed over his son's candy immediately to the
• 29:12
  police, they tested it and it was the pixie sticks tube full
• 29:17
  of poison from all of it. Just poison.
• 29:21
  So, Ronald immediately calls his neighbor Jim and he's like, oh I
• 29:25
  hope your son. Your, your kids didn't need any,
• 29:29
  the police, look at the thing and they're like, this is very
• 29:32
  obviously been tampered with. It's, it looks like it's been
• 29:35
  open and stapled back together with like, like a stapler and so
• 29:42
  of course, they're like, well, how many did?
• 29:44
  How many did you get from my house?
• 29:46
  And he's like, well they gave me like five of them, so I gave one
• 29:49
  each of my kids and want to a kid.
• 29:51
  We knew from church. And so the police kind of rushed
• 29:56
  to the the other family's house and they literally found the boy
• 30:00
  asleep. Holding the tube in his hand.
• 30:03
  Oh my God, he hadn't been strong enough to open up the Staples,
• 30:07
  which ultimately saved his life. So that same day, it's only
• 30:12
  November 1st right now, the police take Ronald back to the
• 30:15
  area where they trick-or-treated in there like so where did you
• 30:18
  get it from? And he's like oh you know I
• 30:20
  don't remember he's like this guy and it was like standing in
• 30:26
  the shadows of the front porch. I don't remember what he looks
• 30:30
  like investigators are immediately kind of suspicious
• 30:35
  and they let him go home. But like there's, you know, they
• 30:40
  they To pull them again and they're like, okay, so you're
• 30:45
  being kind of shady. Yeah, Shady about this.
• 30:50
  Where did you find it? Where was the guy at the house?
• 30:56
  You are keeping us from finding your son's killer this time.
• 30:59
  He points to the house. Now, the man in the house,
• 31:03
  wasn't there. So the police showed up at his
• 31:04
  job, he worked at the airport. They arrested him in front of
• 31:07
  his fellow employees. He told the police.
• 31:10
  He'd been working that night and his wife and daughter had run
• 31:13
  out of candy early which is why the lights were shut off.
• 31:18
  Now, Mike Hinton was already feeling like Ronald story was
• 31:21
  bogus, but this really solidified it for him, not to
• 31:25
  mention Ronald's, being weird, like the day of his son's
• 31:31
  funeral. He gets into a fight with the
• 31:33
  family because he had written some songs for Timothy.
• 31:40
  And it was gonna be like, plead on Mike the Nightly News after
• 31:45
  the funeral and his Didn't want to stay up and watch it with
• 31:48
  him. Oh my God, come on.
• 31:55
  Mike was suspicious, but it was just a hunch and it wasn't his
• 32:00
  investigation. He's just so he goes back to
• 32:05
  teaching at the Pasadena Police Academy and he lets the police
• 32:09
  do their work. You know, he's the prosecutor.
• 32:12
  He can't do yet really have any part of this because ultimately
• 32:15
  he's going to have to prosecute this.
• 32:17
  Once the information comes in In the meantime, parents and dear
• 32:21
  Parker in a total panic that people are just dropping off
• 32:25
  candy at the local police station's.
• 32:28
  They're just here, have it, it's fine.
• 32:30
  We'll buy our kids. Some other candy, we don't care.
• 32:33
  Six days after Timothy is murdered the police show up at
• 32:39
  Ronald's door with a search warrant and an arrest warrant.
• 32:43
  Now, the reason why is over the course of those six days, they
• 32:48
  discovered that Ronald had taken on a life insurance policy on
• 32:51
  both of his kids in January for ten thousand dollars a piece and
• 32:56
  then September. So a month before this he had
• 33:01
  taken out two additional policies each for twenty
• 33:04
  thousand dollars for both kids. the police already knew about
• 33:09
  the debt, but then while they were searching through his
• 33:12
  house, they find like adding machine tape with the exact
• 33:16
  amount of his bills and it was way more than Ronald was letting
• 33:22
  on that he actually owed and they were also suspicious when
• 33:27
  they learned that on November first.
• 33:28
  While he still, you know, sad dad, he called the insurers to
• 33:33
  learn about what he could get that thirty thousand dollars and
• 33:36
  not like he waited the whole day, like he woke up and was
• 33:40
  ready to call them. The moment they opened at 9 a.m.
• 33:46
  To talk to them about this. Which is wild well last
• 33:50
  Saturday, you know, yesterday my son died.
• 33:52
  So when can I get the 30 grand for his life?
• 33:55
  When can you pay me? This is a little, it's a little
• 33:58
  much. And on that adding machine tape,
• 34:03
  was listed the deductions of how much Dad he had.
• 34:06
  Once all the life insurance payouts were collected, the
• 34:09
  search warrant also led to a pair of plastic scissors that
• 34:12
  had a plastic residue that they had found on the candy tubes.
• 34:16
  And that was enough to hold him for questioning.
• 34:19
  They later also found on him a pocket knife that had cyanide
• 34:22
  residue on it too. They also learned he was at
• 34:26
  Community College and they interviewed his professor and
• 34:30
  some other students who told the police that he would, ask weird
• 34:33
  questions, like what's more lethal cyanide or another type
• 34:37
  of poison a man who worked for Chemical Company in Houston
• 34:43
  called the police and said he remembered a man who had come by
• 34:45
  looking at by Cyanide and got upset that he could only buy
• 34:49
  five pounds. That's so much.
• 34:52
  I was about to say. What do you?
• 34:54
  Why would you need? Were you gonna kill everybody?
• 34:56
  Your wife to my God? It's just so much, but he told
• 35:02
  the police. He was like, the man had dark
• 35:04
  hair and glasses and most importantly, he wore like a
• 35:07
  beige or like almost light blue Smock that he said look like a
• 35:11
  doctor which was the uniform that Ronald War to the Opticians
• 35:14
  office. Also, he did have dark hair and
• 35:18
  wore glasses as the police called other chemical companies.
• 35:22
  They all had suspiciously received these weird phone calls
• 35:26
  from a guy who had given his name but he asks weird
• 35:29
  questions. Like how much cyanide does it
• 35:32
  take to kill a man? Not like a 50 pounds.
• 35:35
  I'll tell you that. Not at all.
• 35:38
  That was a definitive proof though because the man couldn't
• 35:41
  positively ID Ronald and this was decades before, DNA evidence
• 35:45
  was being used. Ronald, put it in a not guilty,
• 35:49
  plea and the state of Texas proceeded with their case
• 35:51
  against him. Now, Clyde DeWitt, who is the
• 35:56
  former assistant district attorney in Houston will later
• 35:59
  tell the Press. I'm not able to imagine a crime
• 36:02
  more reprehensible than someone killing his own child for money.
• 36:10
  Now what do it didn't know then and what we know now thanks to
• 36:14
  forensic psychology is that poisoners are a group of killers
• 36:17
  who lack pretty much any empathy.
• 36:21
  We've learned this based on the crimes and how poisoning is done
• 36:24
  usually in a very cold calculating and strategic way a
• 36:28
  forensic psychologist are sorry for in a forensic psychologist
• 36:32
  named Joanie, Johnston did an interview with a any True Crime
• 36:37
  and she said that poisoning is an Instrument for someone who is
• 36:41
  kind of cunning and sneaky, not somebody who's going to be
• 36:44
  physically or verbally aggressive, they are more likely
• 36:47
  to be polite behind the scenes and as a result, they tend to
• 36:51
  fool people. This is a relevant, quote,
• 36:55
  because that is exactly what Ronald does with the police.
• 36:58
  And even at his trial, which starts on May 5th, 1975 in
• 37:02
  Houston. There's a chemist who was
• 37:05
  friends with the Clark family and sorry, O'Brien family.
• 37:12
  And the chemist testified that Ronald would bother him with a
• 37:17
  lot of questions about killing people with poison Cyanide and
• 37:22
  he said that, he felt Ronald had an unusual interest and the
• 37:26
  subject. Ronald sister-in-law testified
• 37:31
  about how Ronald talked about the insurance payout.
• 37:34
  Out on the day of his son's funeral.
• 37:38
  And to add insult to injury, he didn't even say he was going to
• 37:41
  pay off his debts. He told the family, he was going
• 37:43
  to take a long vacation and buy some.
• 37:45
  Thanks. Now, The Smoking Gun was danee
• 37:52
  Ronald's wife, who told the jury that it was not Timothy's choice
• 37:55
  to eat the giant pixie stick, she told the jury that her son
• 37:59
  had wanted a different candy and Ronald pretty much forced him to
• 38:02
  eat it. Even though like her son said,
• 38:05
  it was nasty. Through all of this route
• 38:09
  maintains his innocence and Ronald's defense team decides to
• 38:13
  use the decades-old urban legend about poison Halloween candy,
• 38:19
  something which wasn't really even in the collective
• 38:22
  consciousness of the nation yet. And in fact, this trial made it
• 38:27
  relevant. Across the u.s., this trial is
• 38:35
  being reported on daily for the entire month.
• 38:38
  They deliberate and the Press call him the candy man.
• 38:42
  Now, on June 3rd 1975, the trial wraps up.
• 38:46
  Jury goes to deliberate And it takes 46 minutes for them to
• 38:52
  return with a. Yeah, with a guilty verdict and
• 39:00
  they went all the way guilty for capital murder as well as four
• 39:04
  counts of attempted murder for each pixie.
• 39:06
  Stick, he gave to a child that night who didn't die and then
• 39:11
  the judge was just like well since you have decided on
• 39:13
  capital murder, we need you to deliberate on how he should be.
• 39:17
  He should die, they came back from that one.
• 39:20
  Evan, Iman minutes later with death by electrocution within
• 39:26
  days of the verdict dating files.
• 39:30
  For divorce. She would later remarry and her
• 39:33
  new husband adopted Elizabeth as his own Ronald.
• 39:37
  Spent the next nine years in the Ellis unit in Huntsville, Texas,
• 39:41
  Reverend Carol Pickett, who worked as a Chaplain for the
• 39:44
  Texas Department of Criminal Justice will later.
• 39:46
  Tell the press that Ronald was shunned by all the other end
• 39:50
  Mates. They hated him and he had no
• 39:53
  friends in prison. In fact, the prisoners actually
• 39:58
  requested like they put in a formal Request to have an
• 40:04
  organized demonstration on Ronald's execution date.
• 40:09
  As a sort of fuck, this guy, we hate and love it.
• 40:16
  One of the things that made the inmates Matt was that he
• 40:18
  wouldn't just go to his fate with dignity.
• 40:20
  He was originally supposed to be executed on August 8th. 1980,
• 40:24
  his attorney. Got a stay of execution for him.
• 40:26
  They rescheduled it for May 25th 1982.
• 40:29
  It got postponed. So judge, Michael mcspadden,
• 40:32
  Graduated October 31st 1980 to on the eighth anniversary of his
• 40:36
  crime when his son would have been 16.
• 40:39
  He even offered to walk, Ronald to the execution, this was going
• 40:43
  to be the first lethal injection for the first time in Texas.
• 40:47
  But the Supreme Court stopped it because there were still
• 40:50
  arguments about how Humane lethal injection was, which gave
• 40:55
  his attorney enough time to get another stay of execution, They
• 41:00
  schedule it for a fourth time. March 31st. 1984.
• 41:06
  His lawyer files. A document saying lethal
• 41:11
  injection is cruel and unusual punishment March 28th a jug.
• 41:17
  George exit yet? It's going to go according to
• 41:22
  plan they got him a little last meal T-bone steak some french
• 41:26
  fries and ketchup corn. Sweet peas.
• 41:28
  Lettuce tomato. He has salad with French
• 41:30
  dressing. Some iced tea with a sweetener.
• 41:33
  The Boston cream pie and then March 30th 1984, he walked to
• 41:38
  his execution in just before midnight, a crowd of about 300
• 41:44
  people outside the prison through candy at the prison and
• 41:48
  also at the anti-death penalty demonstrators and they screamed
• 41:52
  trick or treat. Ronald's, final words were, what
• 41:58
  is about to transpire? In a few moments is wrong.
• 42:00
  However, we as human beings do make mistakes and errors, the
• 42:04
  execution is one of those wrongs yet.
• 42:06
  Doesn't mean our whole system of justice is wrong.
• 42:09
  Therefore, I would forgive all who have taken it apart in any
• 42:12
  way in my death. Also to anyone, I have offended
• 42:14
  in any way. During my 39 years, I pray and
• 42:17
  ask your forgiveness, just as I forgive anyone who was offended
• 42:20
  me in any way. And I pray and ask God for
• 42:23
  business. For all of us, respectively is
• 42:25
  In beings to my loved ones. I extend my undying love to
• 42:28
  those close to me knowing your hearts.
• 42:30
  I love you one. And all God bless you.
• 42:32
  And God bless you all and may God's best blessings be always
• 42:36
  yours. Ronald C obrien PS during my
• 42:39
  time here. I have been treated well by all
• 42:41
  TDC personnel and he was executed shortly after midnight.
• 42:47
  Ronald was buried in Forest, Park East cemetery and Webster.
• 42:50
  Texas. Absolutely nowhere near his son
• 42:54
  who was buried in Houston. Now, another interesting thing
• 42:59
  happens, right? Well, Ronald is trying to avoid
• 43:02
  the death penalty. One of the biggest medical
• 43:04
  tampering cases hits the United States and it is a big deal that
• 43:10
  is the 1982 Chicago Tylenol murders, which were first
• 43:15
  reported in September of 1982. And they lasted between
• 43:18
  September 82 in October 1982. There were seven people who
• 43:23
  died, when Tylenol capsules were replaced with potassium.
• 43:27
  Kyanite what made these events frightening is that the devs
• 43:32
  didn't all happen in the same place.
• 43:34
  The first one was September 29th and her name was Mary Kellerman.
• 43:37
  She lived in Elk, Grove Village, Illinois.
• 43:39
  And she was 12 years old. And then the next three all
• 43:42
  happened in Arlington. Heights was about seven miles
• 43:45
  south of where Mary died that was Adam Janice.
• 43:48
  Who is 27? His brother Stanley who was 25
• 43:51
  and his sister-in-law Teresa, who was 19, they all got their
• 43:55
  Town off from a different store. And then a few days after that,
• 43:58
  Mary McFarlane, who was 31 of Elmhurst, and then Paula,
• 44:02
  Prince, 35 of Chicago and Mary Reiner of Winfield.
• 44:07
  She was 27, they all died. So these are all people in
• 44:10
  different cities. They very much realize that
• 44:13
  every person at taken Tylenol before they died, they all test
• 44:17
  these sign Knights found to be in the bottles, they release a
• 44:20
  warning to the people of Chicago not to take any Tylenol.
• 44:23
  They also actually drove a car around A metropolitan area like
• 44:28
  the whole metropolitan area of Chicago, just over the speakers
• 44:33
  saying, throw out your Tylenol. So, of course, the police and
• 44:38
  the FDA, go to Johnson & Johnson, they recall all the
• 44:41
  bottles and those stores. And they discover that they were
• 44:46
  across the multiple stores, they were manufactured in two
• 44:50
  different states, Pennsylvania and Texas, making it highly
• 44:53
  unlikely that this was a manufacturer, right?
• 44:56
  So the police hypothesize that somebody must have bought a
• 45:00
  bunch of Tylenol bottles. Took them home, replace some of
• 45:03
  the capsules and then went and put them back on the Johnson &
• 45:11
  Johnson goes into total, like, protection mode of the brand.
• 45:16
  They recall bottles and hospitals.
• 45:18
  They stop selling tylenol at all.
• 45:20
  And then, while this is going on, on somebody in California,
• 45:26
  finds strychnine in other Tylenol bottles.
• 45:31
  So, at this point, they do a full recall on October 5th 1982
• 45:36
  as 31 million bottles with a retail value of about a hundred
• 45:41
  million dollars in the 80s, which is about 281 million
• 45:45
  dollars. Today they offered, they
• 45:48
  immediately switch over to a solid tab formula and they
• 45:52
  offer. Any customer who just wants to
• 45:55
  feel safe anywhere in the entire country.
• 45:59
  We will replace your capsule bottle with tabs.
• 46:05
  They never find out who does this?
• 46:08
  Now, there was one guy who tried to take advantage, his name is
• 46:12
  James Williams Louis and he sent a letter to J&J trying to extort
• 46:16
  them for a million dollars and ended up going to prison for 10
• 46:18
  years. He did it because he said they
• 46:22
  fired his wife and he just was trying to get a little extra
• 46:24
  money because he's mad at him for about 30 years though.
• 46:28
  One of the books, they blamed the Tylenol murders on James,
• 46:33
  William Lewis and he's like, no, no, no, no, no, I did not do
• 46:36
  that. He and his wife actually
• 46:39
  submitted DNA evidence to the FBI to prove.
• 46:43
  They're the, he's a liar, but he's not a killer.
• 46:50
  They also at one point suspected a man named Roger at Arnold who
• 46:55
  was so like stressed because of the negative press when they
• 47:01
  listed him as a person of interest.
• 47:04
  But he pretty much had a nervous breakdown and he tried to kill
• 47:07
  the owner of Of a bar of the following summer.
• 47:11
  He did not kill the owner of the bar.
• 47:12
  He killed a man who looked similar man, John Standish and
• 47:17
  he served 15 years for that. And later openly spoke about how
• 47:21
  he regretted killing an innocent person and may of 1988 Lori.
• 47:26
  Dan went on a poisoning, spree around when that to Illinois and
• 47:30
  they thought he could be a subset.
• 47:32
  He could be a suspect but he was just responsible for the ones in
• 47:35
  Winnetka. The FBI is actually still.
• 47:38
  Trying to figure out who did this crime as recent as 2011,
• 47:43
  they were testing DNA from other cases, like Ted Kaczynski
• 47:47
  because the first unifor Unabomber crimes happen in
• 47:50
  Chicago from 1978 to 1980 when Ted lived in the suburbs of
• 47:54
  Chicago, with his parents. So the crew.
• 47:59
  This crime has America in a Chokehold and then what made it
• 48:02
  even worse was that all of a sudden more copycat crime,
• 48:05
  started popping up. They became so rampant that.
• 48:12
  This is why we now have induction seals on
• 48:16
  over-the-counter medication and tamper-proof.
• 48:19
  Packaging, that's hard as hell to open.
• 48:24
  Because of these copycat crimes also product tampering is now a
• 48:29
  federal crime. The pharmaceutical industry
• 48:33
  moved away from capsules for a very long time and the FDA
• 48:38
  continues to tweak the regulations around product
• 48:41
  tampering as new more creative ways to tamper with things are
• 48:45
  discovered. Now we're only in the 80s right
• 48:50
  now, right? Halloween 1982, ha.
• 48:53
  Lean. We the people are still
• 48:55
  reminiscent of what happened with Robert.
• 48:57
  I was Ronald Clark O'Bryan right now.
• 49:01
  We've got this case in California.
• 49:02
  People are terrified. Candy sales, go down, 20% across
• 49:05
  the entire nation. What happens.
• 49:08
  Next is a lot of children dying by accident who it gets blamed
• 49:13
  on candy. So I'm going to give you a
• 49:15
  couple. There's a lot of them but maybe
• 49:17
  a couple. So in 1970, this kid named Kevin
• 49:20
  toastin was 5 years old and he was from Detroit, he died after
• 49:25
  finding and eating his uncle's heroin.
• 49:28
  Oh yep. The family attempted to protect
• 49:32
  the uncle. By claiming the drug must have
• 49:35
  been sprinkled on the kids Halloween candy.
• 49:37
  God. Yep. 1978 Patrick wider.
• 49:42
  Hold was two year. Old boy from Flint Michigan who
• 49:45
  died after eating his Halloween candy.
• 49:50
  The Press was like, ah, it's the candy strangers but after
• 49:56
  toxicology tests were done, there was no evidence of poison
• 49:59
  and they were like, he just died.
• 50:04
  Maybe he was allergic to the something, maybe in 1982.
• 50:08
  The police have Redford Township near Detroit issue a statement
• 50:12
  after a kid gets ill and his doctor misread lab results And
• 50:19
  went public with charges of cyanide poisoning and Doctor
• 50:23
  Halloween candy. The police do tests, they're
• 50:26
  like there's no poison here. So, the doctor was just wrong.
• 50:34
  In 1990 Ariel cats the seven-year-old girl in Santa
• 50:37
  Monica, California. She died while she was
• 50:40
  trick-or-treating and early press reports, blamed poison
• 50:43
  candy. Even though her parents told the
• 50:46
  police that she had a congenital heart defect, she had an
• 50:50
  enlarged heart, which was her actual cause of death. 1991
• 50:57
  Washington. D.c. 31 year old Kevin Michael
• 51:00
  Cherry of Montgomery County has heart failure.
• 51:04
  After eating some of his child's Halloween candy and on November
• 51:09
  2nd to Washington, times tells parents to dump their kids
• 51:14
  candies before they even wait for the autopsy. 1994 and
• 51:24
  unnamed three-year-old in New. Britain Connecticut is diagnosed
• 51:27
  as suffering from cocaine poisoning even though he was
• 51:31
  sick earlier in the day and he had a bad habit of putting
• 51:34
  anything he found in his mouth, they blame the candy which of
• 51:39
  course brings media Hysteria. More than a week later, the
• 51:47
  local police announced there was no kill Cain or any other drugs
• 51:51
  in that boys candy bag. More than likely, he picked up
• 51:55
  something that he shouldn't have him.
• 51:57
  Put in his mouth as children are to do as the exactly 1996
• 52:04
  seven-year-old Ferdinand Sig wig of San Jose, California,
• 52:08
  collapses after eating candy and cookies.
• 52:11
  He was given during while he was trick-or-treating, they do a
• 52:13
  urinalysis at the hospital which reveals cocaine subsequent tests
• 52:19
  tests done by an outside lab come back - and Included that
• 52:23
  the initial test results were just wrong.
• 52:27
  This conclusion was reached a day after the media had already
• 52:30
  picked up the story. Yep. 2001 a four-year-old girl
• 52:37
  in Vancouver. British Columbia Canada dies
• 52:40
  after eating Halloween, candy. There is no evidence.
• 52:44
  She died of poison candy, She actually died from a
• 52:49
  Streptococcus infection. So here's one of the, okay.
• 52:54
  So this one is different. So how this is have you heard of
• 52:59
  drugs being in your kids, candy? Of course, that happened.
• 53:06
  But not because of the reasons why we thought Cemetery it's her
• 53:11
  kits 2000. Hercules California,
• 53:16
  trick-or-treaters come home and parents.
• 53:20
  The kids open up these Snickers bars and they have Little
• 53:29
  baggies of marijuana inside of them.
• 53:33
  The meme is coming. True.
• 53:36
  So parents report to the police the house where the candy came
• 53:39
  from is quickly. Found the homeowners are super
• 53:42
  confused when the police investigate, they're like, okay,
• 53:46
  the homeowners had no idea that they accidentally handed out
• 53:49
  drugs. So, here's how this happened.
• 53:51
  The homeowner work for the Post Office and most locations have
• 53:56
  something called a dead letter office.
• 53:58
  Which is where all the packages with bad postage.
• 54:02
  Or not enough postage, go right. The homeowner have been tasked
• 54:07
  with getting rid of like a bunch of canned goods and like what
• 54:11
  looks like bags of candy that had been shipped?
• 54:15
  And so he looks at it and he's like, this is perfectly good.
• 54:18
  Candy he takes it home and gives it to his wife.
• 54:24
  The handout Super Readers. Oh yeah.
• 54:28
  In fact he didn't know that those the it wasn't a real bag
• 54:32
  of Snickers. Somebody tried to cleverly mail
• 54:35
  drugs across the country. I mean and pretend it was a
• 54:40
  stickers bag so that it wouldn't get like searched or x-rayed.
• 54:46
  That's a really smart way of doing it.
• 54:48
  But damn terrible, terrible time of the year to do it.
• 54:53
  The problem is the media doesn't often follow up on these cases a
• 54:58
  lot of the, the digging that had I had to do here was like you
• 55:03
  find the first story and it's very sensationalized, right?
• 55:06
  But they don't follow up afterward.
• 55:09
  So people just remembered that in California.
• 55:12
  In 2000 weed was in kids bags and they never looked into it
• 55:17
  any further than that, in fact. Well, okay.
• 55:22
  So I'm going to say Us. The company said that their
• 55:30
  image was tarnished, but when you find out what this company
• 55:35
  is I'm gonna I'll just okay. So it's October 8th 1988 and the
• 55:41
  New York Times reports that traces of strychnine are found
• 55:46
  in a box of Sunkist fun fruits dinosaurs and they had been
• 55:50
  purchased on September 23rd and a New Jersey.
• 55:52
  Grocery store. The candy's had like a fine
• 55:57
  white powder, which is what strychnine looks like.
• 56:01
  So they took it to a state lab and that's kind of where the New
• 56:05
  York Times initially ends their story, the lab results, come
• 56:08
  back a week later proving that it was cornstarch, which anybody
• 56:12
  who has made homemade gummies with.
• 56:14
  No, that's how you keep them from sticking together.
• 56:19
  Now, the New York Times Did print an updated version of this
• 56:22
  story on October 14th 1988, but the company Thomas J.
• 56:27
  Lipton Incorporated had destroyed Ninety Four Hundred
• 56:31
  cases of the product. The company stated that the
• 56:36
  negativity had a huge impact on their image.
• 56:40
  Now you might know Thomas J. Lifted incorporated as one of
• 56:45
  the largest tea makers in the world.
• 56:48
  Made about 1.6 billion dollars in t last year and have fifty
• 56:54
  percent of the market share. So they obviously recovered
• 57:03
  maybe they don't sell fruit gummies anymore, but they sell
• 57:06
  enough T, they sure as hell. Do, I didn't realize they owned,
• 57:12
  they have 50 percent of the market share of T sales.
• 57:14
  I didn't know that. It's like I said, even though
• 57:17
  both Thomas J lived in. And Johnson & Johnson recovered,
• 57:24
  the medians incessant need. To sort of stay ahead of
• 57:29
  stories. Whether those stories are true
• 57:31
  or not, is, is pretty damaging. Yeah.
• 57:34
  They don't have all the information is one of the covers
• 57:37
  something. And there's definitely these
• 57:39
  Sensational headlines, stay with people much longer after the
• 57:43
  cases are found out to be hoaxes, or just mistaken
• 57:46
  poisonings. Now, there have been journalists
• 57:50
  who have been analyzing all of these news stories, over the
• 57:53
  last 70 years, and most of them end up being pranks.
• 57:57
  One of the bigger studies was done in 1985.
• 58:00
  A man by the name of Joel basti was a sociologist at the
• 58:03
  University of Delaware, pretty much spent a big chunk of his
• 58:06
  career, looking at Candy tampering cases from 1958 to
• 58:10
  1983 and he found that of those cases that he was able to
• 58:16
  confirm were actual candy tampering were about 90 of them.
• 58:21
  None of them were random. Attempts to like her kids, 78
• 58:26
  were outright pranks, five were adults, who attended to kill
• 58:30
  children to get like financial compensation.
• 58:34
  Those were Timothy O'Bryan and Kevin tostan.
• 58:37
  And the rest were just kids trying to get intention.
• 58:40
  Like one of the cases, it's actually really funny.
• 58:45
  It a kid brought an apple to his parents and was like, I think
• 58:50
  there's poison on this and he had eaten like half the apple
• 58:54
  and there was poison on the other half of the Apple, but he
• 58:58
  had dipped it in like he had done.
• 59:00
  That was a kid. Yes.
• 59:03
  Are you serious? What the hell?
• 59:09
  They are mass. Why goddamn thing we can
• 59:11
  absolutely. Say kids are a friggin mess and
• 59:17
  the pranks were things like people and sold like inserting
• 59:20
  needles or razor blades into like another.
• 59:25
  For I got friends candy because they had heard the myths and
• 59:29
  they were like oh this is gonna be so funny.
• 59:33
  Let me take just not realizing they're about to cause
• 59:36
  community-wide. Panic.
• 59:37
  Yeah, that's not funny. Not at all.
• 59:40
  No Joel best isn't the only person to look into this.
• 59:43
  But his coverage of it actually came out during the height of
• 59:49
  candy hysteria. The mid-80s and a lot of other
• 59:53
  people have written about it since then, but for people in
• 59:56
  our age range, you know, Millennials and also some
• 59:59
  younger Gen-X and also sometimes gen Z we kind of now make fun of
• 1:00:04
  it, you know? No, because here's the thing,
• 1:00:08
  like I said, drugs are expensive?
• 1:00:10
  No one's hand them out for free. It's really easy.
• 1:00:13
  As you can see, from the police to track down where ever
• 1:00:17
  tainted, candy actually came from.
• 1:00:19
  They very quickly can zero in on which house it came from based
• 1:00:25
  on asking people questions about it.
• 1:00:30
  So Ronald Clark O'Bryan which is kind of a dummy.
• 1:00:34
  Yeah. There aren't even that many
• 1:00:39
  people who tried to kill her kids with candy.
• 1:00:41
  So thankfully that's good one thing though.
• 1:00:44
  Interesting is that Joel best? Thanks, that we've sort of
• 1:00:47
  shifted, our fear culturally from the supernatural or
• 1:00:51
  satanic, because the 80s had the satanic Panic right to real
• 1:00:57
  monsters, like that. In True Crime, his direct quote
• 1:01:00
  is, we don't believe in ghosts and goblins, we believe in
• 1:01:04
  criminals. We have revised what held the
• 1:01:08
  Louis menaces from the homicidal maniac you know like in slasher
• 1:01:12
  movies to a person so crazy he poisons the candy of strangers
• 1:01:17
  and I honestly think he's right culturally Americans, seem to
• 1:01:23
  subsist off of the idea of constantly.
• 1:01:25
  Having a boogeyman. We're worried about got to be
• 1:01:29
  worried about something be it, religious Supernatural a
• 1:01:33
  socio-economic group that we think is destroying the country
• 1:01:36
  or racist opinions. Of a marginalized Community,
• 1:01:40
  sometimes all of the above at the same time, but we have this
• 1:01:44
  weird space within our country where many of us are safe, but
• 1:01:49
  we fear our communities and I'm really not sure why we're like
• 1:01:52
  this. And that's probably a
• 1:01:53
  conversation for a later date. But for some Americans, the fear
• 1:01:58
  of the stranger, who lurks just outside of your peripheral
• 1:02:01
  seeking to harm, your family is a boogeyman who is palatable
• 1:02:06
  someone you can prepare for Ultimately protect your family.
• 1:02:10
  From we know that the reality is very different.
• 1:02:15
  But in a weird way, looking at the world like this makes people
• 1:02:18
  feel safe because the truth of the matter is that we are most
• 1:02:24
  likely to be hurt by the people. We know, and love, and I don't
• 1:02:29
  know if people can come to terms with that reality.
• 1:02:35
  Like, if it's just too hard for you to look at the people around
• 1:02:38
  you and go one of these people might kill me.
• 1:02:43
  So instead we fixate on all of these different boogeymen and
• 1:02:50
  for Halloween and the candy, giving time the boogeyman is the
• 1:02:55
  random person in your community, who's definitely trying to get,
• 1:03:00
  your kid hooked on drugs. You know, because he just got
• 1:03:04
  all that money. He got all that extra lot of
• 1:03:07
  extra Jack money. All the he's just got all that
• 1:03:10
  time to put needles, inside tiny Snickers bars, or things of that
• 1:03:17
  nature, but it's still, it's very interesting.
• 1:03:20
  That's all I got for you today. It's my time spent looking up
• 1:03:24
  all the different candy crimes in America and it's good that
• 1:03:30
  we're not so crazy about it. Now, I do still see Some news
• 1:03:34
  articles about it though. Yeah, I've seen a few already
• 1:03:38
  this year, drugs and candy and stuff everybody every once in a
• 1:03:42
  while people are like, oh you gotta make sure you double check
• 1:03:47
  your kids candy and I'm like y'all just made me throw out a
• 1:03:51
  perfectly good piece of candy because it got opened in the bag
• 1:03:54
  while I was dragging the back down the street.
• 1:03:59
  Because you know, listen the first couple times you go
• 1:04:02
  trick-or-treating, you carry that cute little pale and then
• 1:04:09
  you get to be like 10 and you just take a pillowcase and call
• 1:04:13
  it a day. Damn, right.
• 1:04:17
  But what do you have for us today?
• 1:04:19
  Brian. Okay.
• 1:04:22
  So today I'm going to keep up with what I did for last
• 1:04:25
  episode. I'm going to hit you with a
• 1:04:29
  Halloween like origin stories, / history.
• 1:04:33
  And then I'm going to add a little Cryptids, 10 episode, all
• 1:04:38
  right, because this is Halloween and we stay in the spooky
• 1:04:42
  season, right? Hmm.
• 1:04:45
  Okay. So Britney Are you ready for
• 1:04:48
  trick-or-treat night? You know, you got your candy,
• 1:04:51
  you got your decorations, you got the whole shebang-a-bang
• 1:04:53
  going on. We didn't really do a whole lot,
• 1:04:56
  but we do have a bag of candy. Oh, it's a chocolate, is just
• 1:05:02
  like regular candy. You know, people who got their
• 1:05:05
  allergy, nut allergies chocolate.
• 1:05:07
  Allergies, unfortunately, chocolate allergies are saying,
• 1:05:10
  well, yeah, one of my cousin's used to try and seek chocolate
• 1:05:14
  and it was always a problem. Yeah, me myself.
• 1:05:22
  I'm definitely going to have my pennies in my reasons.
• 1:05:25
  Ready for these kids you giving out pennies like you're a 75
• 1:05:29
  year old grandma. Oh yes pennies raisins and
• 1:05:33
  toothbrushes. I'm pretty deadly have milky
• 1:05:36
  Way's like a bag of Milky Way's that we're gonna be heading out.
• 1:05:39
  Oh my God I don't know which went to the store today and grab
• 1:05:45
  some candy. So yeah I got to actually go
• 1:05:47
  tomorrow and make sure I can t I gotta make sure I can.
• 1:05:51
  T44 thing is we live like in the middle of downtown.
• 1:05:54
  So Don't even know if kids are going to come by.
• 1:05:58
  So that's why we only grab like two bags but I'm wearing a
• 1:06:01
  costume to work on Monday so I guess I just won't take it off
• 1:06:04
  because I'm just gonna wear that.
• 1:06:07
  Ya know, the area you're in right now.
• 1:06:10
  Yet a lot of kids do walk that street, do they?
• 1:06:14
  I'm so excited. I'm gonna get more candy then.
• 1:06:16
  Thank you for telling me. No problem grew up here.
• 1:06:20
  Yeah, I live right up the street from where you're at right now.
• 1:06:22
  But yeah, Yeah, a lot of kids. Hey, I'm gonna tell her so we
• 1:06:26
  can buy more candy. We're gonna hang out on the
• 1:06:28
  porch from six to eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:34
  I bet there's one Halloween treat.
• 1:06:37
  You don't have ready and if you do look at you for covering all
• 1:06:41
  your bases. Oh, okay.
• 1:06:45
  So have you heard of a soul cake before?
• 1:06:51
  Hmm, people put the word soul in front of a lot of things.
• 1:06:56
  I don't think I've heard about it in this context.
• 1:06:58
  That this is true. This is true.
• 1:07:02
  Okay? So hi.
• 1:07:04
  Soul blobel. Well, thus, okay, what actually
• 1:07:08
  take them as they come with like the beginning of I guess the
• 1:07:15
  trick or treating like like very beginning like night, it wasn't
• 1:07:21
  even, trick-or-treating wasn't called Halloween at this time
• 1:07:24
  ago, back when it was like Pagan.
• 1:07:26
  It was like, you know, All Souls day, which is actually the day
• 1:07:29
  after Halloween actually, not all so well for some people.
• 1:07:34
  No, okay, I'll st. Paul Saints Day and All Saints
• 1:07:39
  Day is the after Halloween and All Souls day.
• 1:07:41
  Is the after that Oh, I'm so confused that.
• 1:07:47
  Yeah, but listen. That's some Christian stuff and
• 1:07:51
  you know, I haven't kept up with that since high school.
• 1:07:54
  I know, but it's all cake is basically, just I mean, it could
• 1:08:01
  be like a cookie could be a biscuit.
• 1:08:04
  It's like there certainly are different types of recipes for
• 1:08:08
  this certain treat. That was given out on these
• 1:08:12
  days. It's like they came about like
• 1:08:19
  19th century so like, like like it was just something so easy.
• 1:08:24
  Why? Yeah, why.
• 1:08:27
  Yes. Well so well, this is something
• 1:08:33
  that goes along with this actually really is a song that
• 1:08:37
  goes along with this. I'm just gonna seem like the
• 1:08:40
  course of it and I'm gonna sing it.
• 1:08:41
  I'm just gonna read it. It says a soul, a soul, a soul
• 1:08:45
  cakes. Please give mrs.
• 1:08:47
  A soul cake. An apple a pear of Plum or a
• 1:08:50
  cherry and a good thing to make us all marry one of her Peter
• 1:08:56
  2:4 Paul three for him, who made us all, okay.
• 1:09:03
  So yeah, this was something, you know how, you know, what
• 1:09:09
  Christmas, you have your carolers and stuff like that.
• 1:09:14
  Um, well, during All Saints Day, All Souls day Halloween, at that
• 1:09:22
  time, they had people, that would come around, whether they
• 1:09:28
  be homeless, people were Beggars and they would, you know, sing
• 1:09:32
  the song, the risk arrows, and the people of the house, would
• 1:09:40
  they normally would have a soul cake and what the soul?
• 1:09:45
  Cakes represent it was for one person won't for one so cake to
• 1:09:51
  get a soul, you know, I mean, so so big so a lot of people just
• 1:09:59
  go around and, you know, do these, these Carol's prayers
• 1:10:06
  something like that. And Actually called souling like
• 1:10:14
  me. Okay.
• 1:10:15
  So here's my question, right? You said this me about in like
• 1:10:17
  the 19th century? Yes.
• 1:10:20
  So I'm guessing they probably don't have too many decorations.
• 1:10:29
  Like I feel like the 1800s. We didn't have like, pretty
• 1:10:33
  cakes. No, they were basic as cakes
• 1:10:40
  that you, they're not even like they're basically like, no, like
• 1:10:44
  was there making biscuits? No, nothing on top of.
• 1:10:47
  It is just basic biscuit looking cooking.
• 1:10:51
  Cookie thing. No.
• 1:10:52
  See is not a cake. It's not a cake or no.
• 1:10:55
  I Look ish, a biscuit. It has sugar flour, eggs
• 1:11:02
  cookies. Like Biscuits.
• 1:11:05
  Yeah, yeah. They are get up now cakes.
• 1:11:16
  I guess. Um, but yeah, like I said there
• 1:11:22
  was a song that was created that was only a chorus of what I
• 1:11:24
  read. Um so after I'd stay out of
• 1:11:30
  this, you know what Mummers are, right?
• 1:11:33
  Yeah, okay, cool, excellent. So, For anybody who doesn't know
• 1:11:40
  him. Warmers are there like
• 1:11:42
  entertainers, basically, actors who, you know, go out in the
• 1:11:47
  streets. They dance.
• 1:11:48
  They performed they they were quite costumes.
• 1:11:53
  Sounds familiar, right? Something reason why I said.
• 1:11:56
  Yeah, so excitedly is because Philadelphia.
• 1:11:59
  Yeah, I know the mummer's parade.
• 1:12:01
  I had and War and authentic Mummers costume every Halloween
• 1:12:07
  for like For years, my aunt got it for me, my Angie and got it
• 1:12:13
  for me and I loved it and I didn't care that.
• 1:12:16
  Nobody knew what it was because I know what it was.
• 1:12:19
  That's all that matters. But yeah, like I guess back in
• 1:12:22
  length 18 century. They were just, like, working
• 1:12:25
  class street performers. Absolutely talk about the cool.
• 1:12:28
  Like they look so cool. I don't know if they're like
• 1:12:31
  cool people now but I know they look cool.
• 1:12:34
  Yeah, so modern-day trick or treat.
• 1:12:38
  Just are thought of as being like descendants of these
• 1:12:43
  bombers. Oh cool.
• 1:12:45
  Yeah, I love that actually. Yeah.
• 1:12:48
  Right is so cool. And they were not only come out,
• 1:12:52
  of course for Halloween, but they come out for other special
• 1:12:55
  like the times of the year. How Christmas?
• 1:12:58
  Also they stuff like that. That's when the mummer's parade
• 1:13:02
  is. I think it's New Years Day and
• 1:13:04
  Philadelphia. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:06
  That's that's a big celebration. Oh yeah, a lot of people.
• 1:13:10
  They were just go to, you know, they knew where like
• 1:13:14
  trick-or-treaters, nowadays, they go to that one person's
• 1:13:17
  house. They know they got those fools
• 1:13:18
  eyes can't. There's king-size candy bars.
• 1:13:22
  The mummer's would go to the, you know, the rich people's
• 1:13:25
  houses. They know we're a rich, and
• 1:13:26
  there we go. Yep.
• 1:13:29
  You know, they get food and you get something to drink, they
• 1:13:33
  might get a gift for her performance out there.
• 1:13:36
  You never know. But yeah, yeah yeah that is that
• 1:13:43
  like when I read about the mummer's, I was like, oh that's
• 1:13:47
  awesome. Just go out there and like is
• 1:13:50
  just definitely trick-or-treating.
• 1:13:53
  Okay, so I've Googled what these cakes look like.
• 1:13:56
  And one, they're ugly. And why do they have x's on
• 1:14:01
  them? Some of the notes.
• 1:14:04
  I don't know what I have x's on the some that see that's the
• 1:14:08
  It's the thing some of them are like they're different recipes
• 1:14:11
  for making up some who say they did do certain things become put
• 1:14:14
  some certain things in it make it you know certain way make it
• 1:14:18
  fluffy. Some of them are fluffier than a
• 1:14:23
  cookie and some of them are like flat, like a damn biscuit or
• 1:14:27
  like God, our flat like that looks beautiful.
• 1:14:33
  But some of these look ugly, Yeah, a lot of them while we're
• 1:14:39
  making like a traditional Soul cake, it's definitely going to
• 1:14:44
  look ugly. Yeah, there's somebody's look
• 1:14:45
  rough like real throw whatever we got in the house inside of
• 1:14:49
  these cookies but the more modern ones like one of these
• 1:14:55
  look like a little pie, it's a little tiny cute.
• 1:14:58
  That's cute people know the cultural significance who are
• 1:15:04
  doing them like today and Is time.
• 1:15:07
  I would hope so, because I've also read some stories about so
• 1:15:15
  cakes. Some of them in Creepypastas,
• 1:15:17
  some of them being actual like stuff and, you know, they're
• 1:15:24
  used to like represent, like I guess they're, they're, they're
• 1:15:30
  given to appease spirits of the, you know, of All Souls day, all
• 1:15:34
  same standard. Okay, yeah, you know what I
• 1:15:37
  mean? So, And I thought that was
• 1:15:41
  really cool because it goes, he has spirits and you're giving
• 1:15:45
  out treats to the spirits. Let's go.
• 1:15:49
  It's like what culture is that Mexico?
• 1:15:53
  Does that yes, what their their little, there's a proper name
• 1:15:58
  for it that I should know because we just watch CoCo at
• 1:16:01
  school but he'll still owes Mortals but there's like the
• 1:16:06
  name of the place where they put all the pictures in the Food.
• 1:16:11
  Remember what the ofrenda? Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:16:14
  They put food on the ofrenda. So that's what I that's the only
• 1:16:17
  culture. I really like know that has like
• 1:16:20
  I mean lots of cultures have death rituals but that's
• 1:16:24
  probably the one I'm most familiar with some like they
• 1:16:27
  feed their dads through that. Yes.
• 1:16:30
  It's, you know, and I think I might be wrong with this but I'm
• 1:16:37
  pretty sure I read this as well. Really Peru also they do
• 1:16:45
  celebrate. So celebrate, the, the soloing.
• 1:16:48
  Okay. And like this came from freaking
• 1:16:52
  Europe and made it all the way down to Peru stuff.
• 1:16:56
  So it's like things, I think I love the most about, like the
• 1:16:59
  Mexico in the thing. With the putting the food on the
• 1:17:02
  farm bar is that it's it's offered to the ghost for the
• 1:17:08
  Roma. Yes.
• 1:17:10
  Because they know they can't eat, but maybe they can smell
• 1:17:13
  it. And remember, it is, remember
• 1:17:15
  that kind of love that. Yes.
• 1:17:20
  But we go study here so you can remember what it was like to eat
• 1:17:24
  when you were alive and hopefully that doesn't make you
• 1:17:27
  hungry. That's what I put alcohol to a
• 1:17:30
  lot of people. Now that is one thing a lot of
• 1:17:32
  cultures do put out booze for the dead for one out.
• 1:17:39
  For the homies, please bottle of wine.
• 1:17:44
  Your file is your finest Pinot Noir, please for me.
• 1:17:48
  Oh, is that what you want? Please, thank you.
• 1:17:52
  I appreciate that. Listen, if I'm gonna be dead,
• 1:17:55
  you better drop a bottle of tequila on My Grave.
• 1:17:58
  Oh, you got it? It's no problem.
• 1:18:00
  Y'all sit around it, the gravestone do a shot and then go
• 1:18:04
  home? Yes.
• 1:18:08
  Wait no, you can't drive home. We shall just said, alcohol,
• 1:18:11
  that's a shot. It's only an ounce of liquor.
• 1:18:17
  It takes an hour for that to go to your system.
• 1:18:20
  You'll be fine. Tell spooky stories in the
• 1:18:22
  meantime, there you go. I wish we had more interesting
• 1:18:29
  death culture like death rituals in the u.s. that would be nice
• 1:18:35
  we lost a lot of it. I think a more modern area
• 1:18:40
  people are scared of the Dead Just fear death.
• 1:18:46
  Yeah, is what this but that you know.
• 1:18:48
  But the problem is they fear it to the point where you don't
• 1:18:52
  prepare, and then you leave your family with huge bills and, you
• 1:18:56
  know, like my best friend's grandmother, she prepared
• 1:19:03
  everything ahead of time. She had already purchased her
• 1:19:06
  casket and her like grave plot decades before she died.
• 1:19:12
  She's like, I don't want y'all to have to deal.
• 1:19:13
  This, she hurts her mind, my friend knew what she wanted to
• 1:19:19
  be buried in how she wanted her hair done.
• 1:19:22
  She had a whole little plan and that's appreciated because when
• 1:19:26
  my mom passed away we were sad and it was it didn't matter how
• 1:19:34
  many times the doctors told me that she had a fatal illness.
• 1:19:38
  My brain was like she's not dying.
• 1:19:41
  What are you talking about? So I wasn't really ready.
• 1:19:48
  I remember like picking out like there was stuff I wanted to do
• 1:19:52
  like I wanted to get like a piece of her hair, you know, for
• 1:19:55
  like you know, like the um, They did in the 14th century like in
• 1:20:00
  the Renaissance, they would like use the hair and like an art
• 1:20:03
  piece or something. Totally forgot about that in the
• 1:20:06
  moment. I just picked it outfit and sent
• 1:20:12
  that to the people and then my dad, let me choose the flowers
• 1:20:18
  and I was like, he's like choose our favorite flowers and I was
• 1:20:22
  like, they're all out of season. He was like, I don't care.
• 1:20:26
  So she had beautiful. Like irises and mums, and all
• 1:20:31
  sorts of flowers that don't grow in December all over the church.
• 1:20:35
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:20:39
  But like I wish we had more stuff in our country.
• 1:20:42
  Like you know what we should do? A thing for what is it going to
• 1:20:48
  be weird. But I saw a story about this.
• 1:20:51
  Okay, some guy he knew he was dying and he just wanted to get
• 1:20:57
  tattoos, okay. And he wanted to leave his
• 1:21:00
  children or something. So what he did was he got his
• 1:21:04
  whole body covered with tattoos and then Like when he died he
• 1:21:11
  had his skin peeled, whatever, you know, with the tattoos pivot
• 1:21:16
  off his skin. I think I remember this part of
• 1:21:19
  it was kept. Yeah, yeah, most of that was
• 1:21:21
  kept if we're like his kids to like, hang up and like, just
• 1:21:26
  look at Art, the art that he had on him, and I think that it's,
• 1:21:31
  it's McCobb. Definitely.
• 1:21:34
  But that's something I would probably do.
• 1:21:37
  They call them human. Pelts.
• 1:21:40
  Yeah, something I would probably do not going to lie.
• 1:21:46
  You want me to save your little Pokémon tattoo Pokemon tattoos.
• 1:21:52
  Thank you for get. There's more, there's more than
• 1:21:53
  one. Yes, save those.
• 1:22:01
  Absolutely. Before we get cremated.
• 1:22:05
  Yeah, might as well. Okay, so Like it's not as crazy
• 1:22:11
  as the dad who wants the skull like beautified and gemstones,
• 1:22:17
  put in the eye sockets and left on the mantle that's to make
• 1:22:22
  them. You can make a mug out of my
• 1:22:25
  skull. He really wants you to, that's,
• 1:22:26
  that's no badass. Your children, love you,
• 1:22:31
  exactly. They're gonna be sad.
• 1:22:35
  Drink your morning coffee. Out of my head.
• 1:22:37
  I know they would be terrible. Oh my God, I'm just thinking of
• 1:22:43
  different ideas to preserve memory.
• 1:22:47
  Yeah, you look, you've made a podcast that has been listened
• 1:22:52
  to by a quarter of a million people and this will be online
• 1:22:56
  forever. Probably, this is true and he
• 1:22:58
  will hear, it isn't like Dad. What the hell were you thinking?
• 1:23:01
  Ha ha. Ha.
• 1:23:04
  Oh God. All right, all right.
• 1:23:06
  All right. So I do.
• 1:23:08
  I do have my Cryptid. All right, so this one I saw
• 1:23:14
  weeks ago. Okay.
• 1:23:16
  And like, was it new to you when you heard about it, it really
• 1:23:21
  was nice. And it's another I'm sorry I had
• 1:23:26
  to do it because it's new to me and it was in that it's from the
• 1:23:30
  area. So it's another bigfoot-type
• 1:23:35
  monster out. Of course it is.
• 1:23:37
  Okay, we'll check it out. Okay this one is from Colombia
• 1:23:42
  pa. Okay.
• 1:23:45
  In between like that in between Lancaster in Colombia.
• 1:23:50
  I like that even less. It's called.
• 1:23:58
  Oh boy. Oh bad witch.
• 1:24:03
  A lb 80, which all bet which as how I'm going to say it.
• 1:24:10
  First thing I see is I'll bat which festival.
• 1:24:14
  Yes, why are we? It just it just happened like
• 1:24:18
  two weeks ago. It literally just happened two
• 1:24:21
  weeks ago. They had a festival of it.
• 1:24:25
  Oh look at all the little stuff. He's so thing with a hat.
• 1:24:34
  Karen, an apple. Yeah, yeah that's um, actually
• 1:24:39
  where he gets his name from they used to apparently still apples.
• 1:24:47
  Oh okay, they really liked apples.
• 1:24:51
  It looks so small. It is small.
• 1:24:55
  You know how tall that thing is? No, it's four feet tall.
• 1:24:58
  Okay? Because you said it was a
• 1:25:00
  Bigfoot but it's considered a Bigfoot.
• 1:25:03
  It's not, it's a humanoid honestly Bigfoot.
• 1:25:07
  I mean like a humanoid 8 type thing.
• 1:25:11
  I'm looking at a very blurry photo. but yes, the all belt,
• 1:25:20
  which is local Legend from Columbia Pennsylvania and They
• 1:25:30
  celebrate this thing. Like I I've lived in Lancaster
• 1:25:36
  all my life and I've never heard of this thing.
• 1:25:40
  Um, and it's a small man was, how did you never hear about a
• 1:25:45
  festival down the road from where you grew up, right?
• 1:25:50
  I have no idea, but it used to live like I guess the, what it
• 1:25:56
  Airy wooded areas. And I guess it lived by chiques
• 1:26:02
  Rock. I don't know where that is.
• 1:26:04
  Where's that is, why? But I'm pretty sure I've driven
• 1:26:09
  by their a lot because Colombia is not that big.
• 1:26:14
  And I guess he should hang around the Susquehanna River
• 1:26:16
  Banks as well. So, I know what that is.
• 1:26:21
  Yeah, I would hope. So, ha ha.
• 1:26:25
  We I lived on the Susquehanna River for like five years
• 1:26:32
  legitimately like my my apartment looked out onto the
• 1:26:35
  river, that's why we laugh. But yeah.
• 1:26:39
  Okay. So chiques rock it's a like a
• 1:26:42
  County Park from it's the shortened version of chicken.
• 1:26:49
  Okay, she cast Saloon. Gotta meaning place of the
• 1:26:53
  crayfish. It's an indigenous word.
• 1:26:56
  I know, roots, that looks. So that's why they called it
• 1:26:59
  just chickies because they don't know how to say words and I get
• 1:27:02
  it. Pennsylvania is full of
• 1:27:04
  indigenous towns and nice for things that are very hard to
• 1:27:09
  say. I'm pretty sure I drive by there
• 1:27:12
  on a daily basis, for work drive by the park.
• 1:27:15
  And it looks like there's like a river there to gather is never
• 1:27:20
  easy. The river I guess part of the
• 1:27:22
  Susquehanna to yeah. Okay I believe that's yeah,
• 1:27:27
  that's a bridge that crosses over from Colombia to
• 1:27:30
  Wrightsville. Well, you've been there a lot?
• 1:27:36
  That's where your friend lives. This movie never was, I've been
• 1:27:41
  to that Park to, I don't know. You should go where hunt.
• 1:27:46
  I should really do something like there.
• 1:27:47
  Yeah. I will watch it.
• 1:27:51
  As you live streaming will not be out in the woods, looking for
• 1:27:56
  creatures, you know, how I feel about the woods and the things
• 1:27:59
  that live there. Now, of course, goodness.
• 1:28:03
  But yeah, like, like this, this I'll bet, which is, it's named
• 1:28:12
  after I guess, like I said, I have it.
• 1:28:16
  It, it has it likes to just take Those, and that's cute.
• 1:28:22
  It's short for Apple snitch. So Apple snitch, I'll bet which
• 1:28:30
  That's not Computing. Brian look, I didn't come with
• 1:28:34
  this, you right you, right? You didn't come up with it but
• 1:28:37
  it's because it's a lb 80 which? Yeah.
• 1:28:44
  Yeah I know. All right whatever we'll get
• 1:28:49
  easiest no apples from picnickers apparently that's and
• 1:28:53
  they use the drove them at people too.
• 1:29:00
  But yeah. This is Legend says that our
• 1:29:07
  batch, which is they either became extinct, or were driven
• 1:29:10
  into Extinction after the 19th Century Century.
• 1:29:17
  There have been a lot of well, supposed sightings at chiques
• 1:29:25
  Rock, okay, they see strange things out there.
• 1:29:31
  Hear strange noises. They don't know what's going on
• 1:29:36
  up there. I mean it's going to be a.
• 1:29:37
  So who knows? What's going on out there?
• 1:29:42
  In about like the 1950s 1970s there was a man-like figure that
• 1:29:49
  was seen several times around the area.
• 1:29:53
  Okay? And and I guess Legends say that
• 1:30:02
  they heard like sounds that sound like a crack of a whip in
• 1:30:07
  the woods. And they're like well maybe this
• 1:30:12
  could be like I don't know and I'll bat which just like doing
• 1:30:16
  something else their nose. Like, I don't know, like it's a
• 1:30:23
  bigfoot-type monster. and I guess, Not only in Colombia but
• 1:30:31
  they it was also spotted in Lancaster PA in about like 1973
• 1:30:38
  and it's only like 10 miles away from Columbia.
• 1:30:41
  So that's not too much too far of a stretch for, you know, to
• 1:30:45
  travel that far. And I was in like the same year
• 1:30:51
  that I guess it started appearing, or after it started
• 1:30:55
  appearing in Colombia. So between 1950s 1970s, it was a
• 1:30:58
  Columbia and then a little bit afterwards, it started heading
• 1:31:01
  towards like a stir. So K knows where it's at.
• 1:31:07
  Now, it's also been. I guess reported that it's been
• 1:31:13
  seen in your county to so that's far away.
• 1:31:17
  It look, it's hitting like a sir Columbia York it's it's probably
• 1:31:22
  just making its way down the East Coast making its way
• 1:31:26
  downtown walking fast faces pass and he's homebound apparently
• 1:31:35
  He's going, you know, where he's going, where he's going down to
• 1:31:38
  East Coast, he's going down to Florida because that's where all
• 1:31:40
  Pennsylvania's go, okay, no. Yes.
• 1:31:52
  Okay. So There's a book about, uh,
• 1:31:59
  it's called ghosts of the river towns is by Rick Fisher.
• 1:32:06
  And he goes over basically Chronicles, different creatures,
• 1:32:12
  that he's or different things. He's seen in these towns by
• 1:32:16
  Rivers. Here is a story about he was
• 1:32:21
  writing he was driving down Route, 23.
• 1:32:23
  Okay. We're this near chiques rock is
• 1:32:27
  a cold. February morning, we had to
• 1:32:30
  string G counter, and is now in a distance.
• 1:32:34
  He saw appeared to be a person walking in the Middle Road and
• 1:32:38
  as Fisher got closer, he slowed down significantly because the
• 1:32:42
  person seemed small enough to be a child.
• 1:32:44
  So like I said, I think it was four feet tall so he was like oh
• 1:32:47
  no. Yeah, he's lost some children
• 1:32:51
  Charles Laws and it was like a stick thin as a stick thin
• 1:32:56
  figure. And yeah, he said it was like
• 1:33:00
  about five feet tall. It was covered in hair and it
• 1:33:04
  just stood in the road Fisher. He flashed on his high beams.
• 1:33:09
  He to get a better. Look, see, I was about to say
• 1:33:11
  then he turned around and didn't engage.
• 1:33:15
  Yep. Now he fly Ash's i-beams,
• 1:33:19
  continue. No.
• 1:33:21
  He flashes all your beans and then the creature did turn
• 1:33:25
  around and it had these yellow eyes ever staring right back at
• 1:33:31
  his car. And then after he flashes High
• 1:33:34
  beings on the figure, just finished right there.
• 1:33:39
  Middle of the road, just vanished. yeah, and like he just
• 1:33:49
  wrote about it in this is part of his little book but What drew
• 1:33:56
  me to this thing just says out bat which is that in the
• 1:34:01
  beginning of October there is an out bat which Day Festival and
• 1:34:08
  we missed it and we missed it was October 30 minutes away.
• 1:34:16
  Yes, and we missed it. It happens.
• 1:34:21
  It happens from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. and it's just a freaking
• 1:34:27
  Festival. You get Ghost Tours or vendors.
• 1:34:31
  Are you a music artist there? People dressing up as an out bat
• 1:34:36
  which ha ha. It's yeah.
• 1:34:39
  When's the Mothman? We got to go do that.
• 1:34:42
  Oh, I think it's some like drawing a blank.
• 1:34:45
  I'm pretty sure. Is like either July or August.
• 1:34:49
  So we got to go there, definitely next year.
• 1:34:53
  Third weekend in September. Damn, really owes hole.
• 1:34:58
  Yeah. Next year next year I guess I
• 1:35:02
  know what I'm doing. September their weekend going to
• 1:35:09
  South Carolina, West Virginia. Man, what was Virginia?
• 1:35:20
  Oh goodness. But yet, if you want to know any
• 1:35:25
  more about the alphabet, which you can definitely go to, I'll
• 1:35:29
  bet which day.com and it basically gives you like a
• 1:35:35
  little legend of the elbe at which things that go on during
• 1:35:43
  the day of the festival, which actually look pretty cool.
• 1:35:47
  And I am really sad that I missed.
• 1:35:49
  Miss it this year, but I will definitely try to make it next
• 1:35:52
  year and hopefully is always in the beginning of October I
• 1:35:56
  think. So, let's hope that's the thing
• 1:36:00
  and I'll make it. Um, well yeah, let's do it.
• 1:36:05
  Yeah, that's that's where I got for this week.
• 1:36:09
  Well, thank you all so much for listening.
• 1:36:12
  I'm going to stay with the A lot of work that I'm doing right now
• 1:36:20
  like my main job is like 45 Plus hours a week.
• 1:36:26
  We probably won't be having 3 our podcasts anymore.
• 1:36:33
  Things will probably come out and parts.
• 1:36:35
  If I do, like big cases, like we do, like I did with, you know,
• 1:36:39
  Bundy or Manson, those are probably more likely but
• 1:36:44
  hopefully you'll still be happy. Even if the podcast is only like
• 1:36:47
  an hour and a half, just gotta sort my time a little
• 1:36:53
  differently now but unfortunately, yeah, so thank
• 1:37:00
  you for listening. Yes, we appreciate it so much
• 1:37:04
  and have a good Halloween. Yes.
• 1:37:08
  Make sure you get those so cakes.
• 1:37:09
  Ready? But make them cute.
• 1:37:15
  It's please make them cute. As some frosting, at least the
• 1:37:19
  ancestors want frosting anyway. Happy Halloween.