Latest / The Curve / RTC119: The three D's: Divorce, Debt, and D*ck pics with Lu in Luland.

Transcript

RTC119: The three D's: Divorce, Debt, and D*ck pics with Lu in Luland. · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
0:05
to be better with your money.
0:07
And the wise words of Amy Shurma were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
0:11
I don't really get the saying.
0:13
It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
0:17
You know, I'm like, I'm staring at the brownies.
0:19
Are you on the script?
0:20
It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring as, but it totally doesn't
0:26
need to be.
0:27
OK, OK.
0:28
So we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
0:31
OK, the vegetables are just good for you.
0:33
It's the brownie recipe.
0:34
OK, we got there, we got there.
0:36
OK, OK.
0:36
Well, you've really got a finance, mate.
0:38
Yeah, one of us has to.
0:40
This is a joke.
0:41
OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager,
0:45
where I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
0:48
And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
0:50
No, that's so not the joke, Vick.
0:53
Oh, OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
0:56
Because together, we really can raise the curve.
1:01
Do you think Lou, who we interviewed, OK, the podcast you're about to listen to?
1:06
Hmm.
1:07
Was she the best dressed guest we've ever had?
1:09
Hands down.
1:11
Doesn't even come close.
1:13
She, honestly, gave, do a leap of energy.
1:16
Don't you reckon?
1:17
Yeah, yeah.
1:18
Just so fun and confident, so liberating.
1:22
She was in this pale blue matching outfit.
1:26
Honestly, I found out she had some dresses on inside.
1:29
It was giving almost like she had jewels.
1:32
She had the best shoes, even a phone case, like just everything.
1:35
I was like, you must get so many incredible looks as you walked down the street.
1:41
She was like, yeah, and I love it.
1:42
Like, I would look at her and go, I wish I was that confident.
1:45
Yeah, and that's her whole thing.
1:46
So her name's Lou Ferestone.
1:48
OK, she's known as Lou in Louland.
1:51
Basically, she went through divorce.
1:53
She had, you know, she had kids.
1:55
She was married.
1:56
She did the whole stereotypical mom life.
2:00
Yeah.
2:00
And then when she had her marriage breakdown,
2:03
she had this kind of revelation of like, why am I not confident?
2:07
Why am I not wearing colors?
2:09
Why am I not sexually empowered?
2:12
Like, why is it that women are so pushed out?
2:15
It's like used products once they've gone through menopause or had kids.
2:19
Yeah.
2:19
And her whole premise and everything that she's trying to promote
2:23
is just the idea that actually fuck that.
2:25
And honestly, I was so inspiring.
2:28
Because I must say for me, I look at, I mean,
2:31
my own internal thoughts to older women
2:34
have been totally blurred by what Petrarchy has told me.
2:38
I should think of them, you know?
2:39
And yeah, she's just totally rewriting that narrative.
2:42
And not only is her fashion up there, but she's funny.
2:48
She's cool.
2:49
She's one of those people you want to be friends with.
2:51
Yeah.
2:51
We even said that we'd go and do a little style session with her.
2:54
Oh, you didn't wait.
2:55
Can we read your wardrobe?
2:56
Yeah, we can't go.
2:57
There was a time in this interview where Lou started crying
3:00
and really broke down when she was talking about her money
3:02
experiences and what has gone on for her in that space.
3:07
And honestly, I had this moment of feeling
3:10
like I was looking at what would have been me.
3:13
Had it not been for the kids.
3:14
Had it not been for the kids.
3:16
Honestly, it was like...
3:18
It was very hard not to talk and interact.
3:21
And give her a hug and give her a tissue and like me.
3:24
But, yeah, hearing what she'd been through,
3:27
what she'd learned, what she'd overcome was just like,
3:29
well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:32
Such an inspiring story.
3:33
I want to thank her as well for opening up
3:35
because she didn't even meet us before.
3:37
She didn't, you know, like she didn't have to release that
3:40
or release that energy.
3:41
And I think it was really, it's going to help a lot of people.
3:45
Oh, we're very excited.
3:46
Now, we've actually kind of had a whole podcast conversation
3:49
off Mike, haven't we?
3:50
We're going to have to bring it on to the microphone.
3:53
But Lou, thank you so much for being here today.
3:55
Thank you.
3:56
You're welcome.
3:57
Thank you for having me.
3:58
Welcome to the UK.
3:59
We've never had a more fabulous looking guest.
4:01
Oh, I know.
4:02
I don't take that.
4:03
You look absolutely phenomenal.
4:07
I was getting extra stars on the tube today.
4:09
There's different levels of stars.
4:10
Today was a lot of staring.
4:11
I think, yeah.
4:12
I mean, I know I'm pretty boring, what are we?
4:14
But I feel so boring today.
4:16
So when we researched you, when we knew you're coming on the show,
4:19
I did a bit, like a lot of research.
4:21
And unfortunately, because my shit is all over London
4:24
right now in different friend's houses,
4:25
I didn't have a lot to work with.
4:27
But I thought, oh, like I have got some good color.
4:30
And I really wanted to step it up.
4:32
But unfortunately, we've gone through it.
4:33
I was going to wear that light and green jumper.
4:34
And I was like, oh, no, it's a bit too much.
4:37
Oh, hello, I'm the queen of the tumor.
4:40
And as soon as I walked in the lift, I was like,
4:41
shit, it won the green jumper, shit, it won the green.
4:43
I hate people always worry about what to wear,
4:45
whether they meet me for lunch.
4:46
Everyone always starts with an apology.
4:48
I'm like, oh, sorry.
4:49
Sorry.
4:50
Just to paint pictures for anyone who's listening
4:52
and not watching.
4:53
We have pink Nike trainers.
4:54
We have a matching.
4:56
Is it gengum?
4:57
Is that how you say it?
4:57
Yeah, gengum.
4:58
Like blue and white matching suit
5:01
with like the most amazingly chic, long blue nails.
5:07
Gold free to posturing rings.
5:10
The glasses do it for me.
5:11
It takes me about 20 minutes to get all the accessories off at night.
5:14
A blue for Dora.
5:15
Like it is absolutely.
5:17
Do you love getting dressed in the morning?
5:18
Are you like today?
5:20
I am going to, yeah.
5:21
Nice.
5:22
I love getting dressed in the morning.
5:23
My wardrobe, I rent quite a lot of my clothes out.
5:25
So I have wardrobe.
5:27
I invite women into the wardrobe, rent clothes out.
5:29
Women just come and get dressed up.
5:30
I try and encourage women out with comforts.
5:32
And this is kind of how the self-love revolution started
5:35
was I started doing vintage shopping
5:37
tours to encourage people to be more sustainable.
5:40
And I would send a form out to women before they came to me
5:43
and say, why are you coming?
5:45
What are you hoping to get from the session?
5:47
Tell me about your style.
5:49
And every woman would start the form with, I am too fat.
5:53
I am too thin.
5:54
My tits are too big.
5:55
I look shit in this.
5:57
My artist is pretty.
5:58
And every single, I'm men too in fairness.
6:01
Actually, everybody start with what they couldn't wear,
6:03
what they couldn't do and what was wrong with them.
6:05
And so I started every session with, right?
6:07
I'm going to prove you wrong.
6:09
I make you love every bit of you.
6:12
So, but it just blew my mind.
6:15
Every woman I came and encountered started
6:18
with this negativity about themselves.
6:19
I hated it.
6:21
And then when we were doing the shopping tours,
6:22
I bought so much stuff.
6:25
My vintage collection grew and grew and grew.
6:27
And it was just sort of sitting there.
6:28
So then I sort of developed wardrobe
6:30
where people women could come and rent my clothes.
6:33
So I get people dressed up for their vacations
6:35
or for weddings.
6:36
Should we do it?
6:37
But can we come over?
6:38
Oh my god, should we solve?
6:40
We should do a curvy clue podcast.
6:42
We should go to those places.
6:43
Can we come over and can we dress up?
6:45
We get dressed up.
6:46
Oh my god, that would be so fun.
6:47
And it just, I don't know.
6:49
It just is a really good place to start.
6:50
If women have lost their confidence,
6:52
it's a really good place to start.
6:53
I'm like, put the sequin card on,
6:55
wear it to the supermarkets, see what happens.
6:57
Yeah.
6:58
It is amazing how clothes and your aesthetic,
7:01
as much as you can put it in there,
7:02
this is materialistic, all this doesn't matter,
7:05
this is being vain or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
7:08
Whenever I wear an outfit that I feel great in,
7:11
my energy and like it exudes from me,
7:14
I'm so much more confident.
7:16
It's an extension of your personality.
7:19
It seems to me.
7:20
And it, you know what, it cheers people up.
7:23
People thank me.
7:25
Like, thank you so much.
7:26
You really cheer me up today, which is wild to me.
7:29
I say, I don't know.
7:31
I also, people are like, what are you doing?
7:32
Who are you?
7:34
You know, so I get to spread my message.
7:36
Also, I don't want to get hit by a bus
7:38
and go down looking shit, so.
7:39
Yeah.
7:40
People always prepare.
7:41
Yeah.
7:42
I love that.
7:44
I mean, how?
7:45
I've actually sometimes thought about,
7:46
imagine if I, you know, I got hit by a car
7:48
or something, and I was in my sweaty gym gear
7:51
and I had my slip back in and I, you know,
7:53
and people came to visit me and I was looking like,
7:55
oh, I'm real gutted about this situation.
7:57
Or be like, who is this girl on the side of the road?
7:59
Oh, no, she doesn't look like her ID.
8:00
She doesn't look like her ID.
8:02
I don't know who she is, gosh.
8:04
So different.
8:05
OK, so I think it would be really great if we could rewind
8:08
because you haven't always been this colourful
8:10
in every form of what that would mean.
8:12
You had your own revolution with your self-confidence.
8:17
You reinvigorated your sex life,
8:19
your relationship with your body, with the world around you.
8:22
Can we step back to where you were pre-self-love revolution?
8:26
What was happening in your life?
8:28
And what really sparked this enormous change?
8:32
And obviously, is now your life mission.
8:35
I was a vicar's daughter.
8:36
So I grew up in the vicarage, which I think I loved.
8:39
I loved it.
8:40
It was, you know, is that a church?
8:42
Yeah, it's like my dad was a preacher.
8:44
It's like a little white.
8:46
Where's the doctor?
8:47
A priest.
8:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:49
And what would you call him in New Zealand?
8:50
I think it's like a priest.
8:51
Yeah.
8:52
So we lived in a vicarage.
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So the front door was always open.
8:55
We had homeless people knocking up the door, looking for food.
8:58
We had the bishop might turn up one day.
9:00
We had people who were bereaved looking for funerals or couples looking to get married.
9:04
So whenever I opened the front door, I mean, it was a good training ground for life.
9:07
You never knew who was coming through the front door.
9:09
But as a vicar's daughter, people expect a certain level of behavior.
9:12
So I think I grew up just in this, with these huge expectations on me.
9:16
And, you know, preachers' daughters have a terrible reputation.
9:19
And I was busy, you know, getting fingered in the choir and snogging up.
9:24
It's really like the opposite.
9:26
I think, like, you know, we're very pre-eminent proper.
9:28
And we don't like...
9:29
I've been in a choir before and, like, I can't even imagine, even in my, like, wildest,
9:34
sexual place, either, being like, okay, I'm a soprano and meet you at the bed.
9:38
I mean, there was three or four weddings on the Saturday.
9:40
There was a lot of time to kill him, trade.
9:42
Also, I just was so rebellious because I was so many, you know, there was always expectations
9:47
on me.
9:48
And that was in my childhood.
9:49
So then I got married.
9:51
And I met an amazing guy, but he was the first guy that refused to sleep with me on the
9:56
first date, which was a mystery to me, because I would sleep with literally...
9:59
I mean, I would sleep with you soon as look at you in my, sort of, teens and 20s.
10:03
And then I met this lovely man who just wouldn't sleep with me, so I was like, must be love.
10:08
Right, Mario.
10:09
Can I just stop you for one ticket?
10:11
Because I've recently encountered this too.
10:13
Where I was like...
10:14
No, six on the first day.
10:15
Right, I went back to...
10:16
Back to yours.
10:17
And he was like, oh, no, no, we're going to go on a date.
10:20
And I was like, it's kind of...
10:22
And I know that it's cute and shovel rest and whatever.
10:24
But there was also a part of me that was like, well, I want to.
10:27
And you know, like, this shouldn't be a sign of like, oh, I've given it up on the first time.
10:32
And that's all I'm good.
10:33
You know, like, do you feel like in hindsight looking at that now, after you've had this big sexual awakening
10:39
and you've really come into your own?
10:41
Why is that still something where we compare the idea of love with holding out from a sex perspective?
10:48
Right.
10:49
Yeah.
10:50
So probably just a red flag.
10:51
Because then you sex just fell into...
10:53
Our sex life was probably...
10:55
It's all linked together.
10:57
And we were so...
10:58
We were happy in loads of other ways.
10:59
He had his career was soaring.
11:00
My career was soaring.
11:01
Then I ended up getting pregnant.
11:03
So my career came to a halt.
11:06
Here's carried on.
11:07
He was...
11:08
We lived on the coast.
11:09
Typical?
11:10
Oh, yeah, yeah.
11:11
So you're so down.
11:12
Yes, keep going.
11:13
You're so away from others.
11:14
We lived at that level before.
11:15
Yeah, it's a festival.
11:16
I had never really...
11:17
I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
11:19
I've always known life was more about something other than just me.
11:23
But I just never...
11:24
I thought for ages it was God.
11:25
Because obviously Dad.
11:26
And then I thought maybe it was politics.
11:28
But that didn't really get me wet.
11:32
So I still sort of...
11:33
I was trying to figure it out.
11:34
And I was doing okay.
11:35
Like I was working in advertising.
11:37
It was fun.
11:38
He was working in advertising and doing really well.
11:40
But he was very clear on what he wanted to do.
11:42
So after I had Oscar, I was like,
11:44
let's find it became really easy just to lose myself in supporting him.
11:47
He was earning good money.
11:48
He was happy.
11:49
It's a Euro set on wife at this point.
11:51
A little while.
11:52
Yeah, not long.
11:53
I actually went back to work.
11:55
I think Oscar was about six months.
11:57
But I just went into baby swimming.
11:59
And then I started working for social services.
12:01
And I loved that.
12:02
And it worked around Oscar.
12:04
And going to school.
12:05
And I was chair of the PTA.
12:06
I was Mrs. Community.
12:07
I sat on the school board.
12:08
You know what I was?
12:09
Yeah.
12:10
But we had a nice camper van.
12:12
My husband was earning good money.
12:14
All happy.
12:15
You know, but we lived very separate lives almost.
12:18
He commuted into London every day.
12:20
And I was getting a bit, you know,
12:23
this is not really the plan.
12:24
We're supposed to be doing this shit together.
12:26
And everything revolved around that, you know.
12:29
And then we, he got a job offer in the States.
12:32
And so we moved to Portland,
12:35
and Oregon for his job, which was so A.
12:38
I mean, it was amazing.
12:39
It was super exciting times.
12:40
Oscar was 10.
12:42
And we were so excited.
12:44
So off we sat.
12:45
And almost immediately.
12:47
I think we completely then lost each other.
12:49
And the irony was we were supposed to go and be able to spend more time together.
12:52
And actually he won a client on the East Coast.
12:54
And we were living on the West Coast.
12:56
So he was, he was commuting to New York instead of doing London's Brighton.
13:00
He was doing Oregon to New York,
13:02
which is five hour flight in a three hour time difference.
13:05
So almost immediately.
13:06
And he had to obviously establish himself in his new job.
13:09
You know, and I will say all of these,
13:11
I will say all of this was not his fault.
13:14
Like he did nothing wrong.
13:15
This was me just, I didn't want to rock the boat ever.
13:19
You know, I rarely said how I felt.
13:21
I didn't love motherhoods.
13:22
First two years, bloody awful, honestly.
13:24
It was a terrible postnatal depression,
13:26
which I kept to see career.
13:28
You know.
13:29
So America, he was off.
13:32
Oscar started his new school.
13:34
And I couldn't work.
13:35
I was listed as a dependent,
13:36
which did something really fucking mad to me.
13:39
Like, I just couldn't stand being a dependent.
13:42
It made me feel awful.
13:44
And before we left, I was like, what am I going to do?
13:46
I can't work for a whole year.
13:48
Oh, I was really struggling with that.
13:50
Being reliant on someone else.
13:51
It would just be horrible.
13:53
It's not even just financially though.
13:54
It's also what do you even do with your time?
13:56
What do you do exactly?
13:57
Let me tell you, I settled into doing fuck all really quickly.
14:00
All of a sudden the days go so quick.
14:03
No, I could do this.
14:04
Let's go for lunch.
14:06
When we moved, someone bought us this book called
14:09
the 25 best hikes within an hour and a half of Portland.
14:12
So first week, I literally opened the book,
14:14
picked a hike and went off and hiked by myself,
14:16
took loads of pictures of myself,
14:18
put on Facebook to piss everybody off at home.
14:21
The next day at school gate,
14:23
one of the mums who, you know, I'd met at the school gate,
14:25
was like, can I come next week?
14:27
Yeah, of course you can.
14:28
Let's meet at the coffee shop.
14:30
So we were nailing life.
14:32
We would drop the kids at school.
14:34
We'd meet at the coffee shop.
14:35
We would grab a coffee, jump in the car,
14:37
go hike a fucking volcano.
14:39
Have a picnic lunch at the top.
14:41
A can of wine.
14:42
We called it hiking wine.
14:43
All the way up.
14:44
We're like, fucking husbands, fucking kids.
14:46
You know, do, do, do.
14:48
And you come back and you're like, hi, darling.
14:50
Hi, how are you?
14:51
How are you?
14:52
I'm coming back.
14:53
Like no therapy needs.
14:54
Like free therapy.
14:55
And each week different women would come.
14:56
They would bring their friends the next week.
14:58
And so it grew and grew.
14:59
Each week it was different women.
15:01
You know, sometimes we were four.
15:03
Sometimes we were 15.
15:04
It was amazing.
15:05
We carpool.
15:06
We were nailing life.
15:07
Wow.
15:08
It sounds amazing.
15:09
Yeah.
15:10
And it was so empowering.
15:11
And American women are like, fuck Aaron.
15:13
You know, they're so, you can do this.
15:15
But there was a core hiking, core of us hiking weekly,
15:19
who kind of like there was a Dutch woman, a Belgian woman.
15:22
There was a couple of Brits and a couple of Americans.
15:25
And we were all mostly there for our husbands jobs.
15:28
We were all there as dependents.
15:30
So we had this gift of time.
15:32
And sense of adventure together.
15:34
Because we knew we were, we were not going to have this time
15:37
for the rest of our lives.
15:38
Like we weren't all going to grow old together as mates.
15:41
So let's just seize the fucking day.
15:43
We say, carpet, the damn day.
15:45
And so my confidence started to really grow.
15:48
And I started to, I found CrossFit and found fitness.
15:52
And I just loved both these communities.
15:55
And I just started to feel stronger and fitter.
15:59
The more my husband came back from trips, you know, away.
16:02
I'd be like, ah, see how the house changes when you come home.
16:05
Like, you know, we don't, we don't allow to watch that on the TV
16:09
because you don't like that show.
16:11
And I don't know.
16:12
We just started to drift apart so much.
16:14
Well, you probably created your own world while he wasn't there.
16:17
And then it was like, you're coming back and kind of disrupting my shit, actually.
16:20
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
16:21
And you should eat that for him too.
16:23
Like now on reflection, there's so much where I look back.
16:25
And I'm like, that was really like crappy.
16:27
It was so hard of him commuting all those hours.
16:29
Like it was, it was tough for everyone really.
16:32
You twist your narrative and don't you just sort of suit yourself at the time.
16:36
But my confidence started to grow.
16:38
And then one day we climbed a big volcano with a big-ass deal.
16:41
And I took all my clothes off.
16:43
And took, got someone to take a picture of me with no clothes on.
16:46
And I'll never forget the man.
16:48
The shot looks amazing.
16:49
It's like I'm completely alone on the top of this volcano.
16:51
But there was a man right here eating his lunch.
16:53
And I heard him go to his friend.
16:55
She's bold.
16:56
I must have put him off his sandwich for life.
16:58
I wonder if he thinks about me.
17:00
Anyway, I posted the picture on Facebook.
17:02
And within 25 minutes, I had a dick pic from a 26-year-old at the gym.
17:07
And I never had a dick pic in my life.
17:09
Because when I met...
17:10
They're not that cute.
17:11
They're not that cute.
17:12
This is not an invitation to dick owners.
17:15
If anyone's listening, please do not.
17:17
This is not an invitation.
17:18
It's a dick pic.
17:19
No.
17:20
However, there was a novelty for it.
17:22
I'd never had one when I met my husband in mobile phones when he was in the downpour.
17:25
Did you get a friend?
17:26
What was going on?
17:27
I thought it was a big deal.
17:28
I thought it was a big deal.
17:29
I was like, I don't know.
17:30
It's not even a great dick.
17:31
But like, it did something to me.
17:33
And I hate giving the dick the power.
17:35
But I was horny again for the first time in ages.
17:39
And I was like, oh, what's that?
17:40
And I realized I had to put that part of me, that sexual side of me,
17:45
that all those men, all those well-humans that I'd slept with.
17:49
I put all that part of me aside for this great love.
17:52
And I'd lost so much of myself along the way.
17:56
So with your marriage and also the way you speak about him,
17:59
I'm assuming you're both friends again now.
18:01
And it's a really lovely relationship.
18:03
In terms of that physical side,
18:06
was it ever super alive within your dynamic?
18:09
Or do you think that post-kids had started to fade away?
18:13
Or was it because I'm just sort of interested.
18:16
I know speaking for my own experience,
18:19
if I go for quite a long time without,
18:21
whether it even be messed abouting or sleeping on someone
18:24
or being at all intimate with myself or someone else,
18:26
I often can lose that sexual energy.
18:29
And I think that it's a lot easier for woman to fall into that pattern than it is for men.
18:35
For you, was that something that had just sort of happened within the relationship?
18:39
Was it very much so?
18:40
It was just as much, you know.
18:42
I think, you know, when I tell the story,
18:44
I always try to make sure that I'm clear that, you know,
18:47
I wasn't lying there going,
18:48
God, you ain't for me, you know.
18:50
I actually, I was doing a talk about it one day.
18:53
And while I was talking, I went, oh my God,
18:55
I went to bed in a tracksuit for 10 years.
18:57
I mean, it was hardly come here, though.
18:59
It was hardly, you know, it was hardly like, I should have come up and down here
19:02
and it's rejecting me.
19:03
And I've got this horrible tale to tell.
19:05
We were just really careless with each other.
19:07
And then by the time it sort of, you know,
19:09
when it's gone six months, you're like, oh, it's a bit of a fuss to do it again.
19:13
And then it's a bit awkward and you're like,
19:14
Hi, how you play Tachy?
19:16
I touch you.
19:17
I touch you once every few months.
19:18
So we do it and I go, oh, that was good.
19:20
We should do it more and for God.
19:22
Yeah.
19:23
And then again, it would slide into this.
19:24
I think it's just like communication and relationships.
19:26
The physical side is, it needs so much love and nurturing and time and work.
19:31
And it's not something that you should take for granted, actually.
19:34
No, it's not.
19:35
And you think, I don't know.
19:36
Now, I think it's interesting.
19:37
I've had this revelation recently.
19:39
I always refused to go on date night.
19:41
I was like, if we need to go on date night,
19:43
if we have to force ourselves on date night, then we're fucked.
19:46
What's the point in being together?
19:47
Like, it should be spontaneous and it should be all of these things.
19:50
But actually on reflection, if we had forced ourselves to go out on those nights out
19:54
and made ourselves do it, would we have had the conversation where we're like,
19:58
we don't shag anymore or we should really do that.
20:00
Because I really like you.
20:02
Do you like me?
20:03
I'm just sitting at home in cross with you for things I'm not even telling you about.
20:07
I'm just simmering in my like silent martyrdom of brilliant wife.
20:11
Why the fuck did we not make ourselves make that effort for each other and go out
20:16
and have a drink and have these conversations?
20:18
Could my life have been completely different?
20:20
Probably.
20:21
I thought that on Valentine's.
20:22
You know, everyone's so anti, I've always for years I've been that Valentine.
20:26
But actually on reflection, maybe it is good.
20:29
Maybe you do need that freaking reminder.
20:31
And if it's a reminder when Eva now goes out for dinner on the same day,
20:35
just for it doesn't matter.
20:36
Like as long as it's a day to celebrate.
20:38
Maybe we need that fact that you love someone or you know,
20:41
or think, oh my god, we haven't done this for ages and we need to do it.
20:45
I actually introduced date night and I did feel like an old married couple
20:48
that had been married for about 20 years.
20:50
But I think it's great for like, we're so hecticly busy at the moment.
20:53
It's easy to be like, Blinken three weeks has gone and you haven't gone out for dinner with your partner.
20:57
It's like, if you need to schedule it for a period of time to focus and communicate,
21:02
I think why not?
21:03
Who knows?
21:04
Who's put a label on it saying like, I don't know, we shouldn't have to do that.
21:06
If it works here.
21:07
I think it's also, there needs to be national, let's have six days or something.
21:11
There will be probably as one.
21:12
That's every day for me now.
21:14
So then after the dick pic, I went and bought a vibrator.
21:17
And I hadn't had one for years and I couldn't get it in.
21:21
How does this work?
21:23
I forgot.
21:24
I actually bought batteries for it.
21:26
Didn't even realize it was like a, what I don't, a USB, I'm so old.
21:29
Is that like a Nana?
21:30
Did you have to hide it from your husband?
21:32
Was it something?
21:33
Did you feel shameful buying it?
21:34
Yeah, completely.
21:35
I hid it away.
21:36
But then I started, it made me really think what else of me have I put away,
21:41
trying to be this good wife.
21:43
And again, I wasn't massively unhappy.
21:47
But the more it gave me this dick pic, gave me this nagging disc content about
21:51
where I'd gone and who I was.
21:54
And it sort of coincided with the menopause, which was a perfect storm,
21:57
which then sort of coincided with lockdown and us going from never seeing each other
22:02
to just being squashed in the house together.
22:04
And I moved into the spare room.
22:07
We started therapy.
22:08
That was just such a struggle.
22:10
I think because you'd lived at two layers.
22:12
Yeah.
22:13
We literally left it too late.
22:14
It was just so hard to try and find our paths back to each other.
22:17
And I moved into the spare room.
22:19
And I started sharing my journey online a lot more and being, you know,
22:23
a lot more out loud.
22:24
It's called leaving my life out loud.
22:26
And I so many women were resonating with what I'd set been saying.
22:29
You know, I'd done loads of styling stuff before online.
22:32
But the more I shared my journey into the menopause and divorce and finding my sexuality again.
22:38
I started having orgasms just for myself.
22:41
Shit, yeah.
22:42
You know, not about anybody else, not about being sexy for anyone else,
22:45
taking nudes for myself.
22:47
And I felt so sexy.
22:49
And like, you know, everyone in the menopause is like, yeah, get a try out.
22:53
You know, it's all over.
22:55
I'm like, well, this seems to be fine.
22:57
I'm like, horny other than I've ever been.
23:00
So if we're looking at the first thing I would like to say, amazing.
23:04
It's for rewriting the narrative for women post-menopause to think that
23:10
you can still have so much life and love and sex left in you.
23:14
It doesn't make any difference how old you are.
23:16
And taking control of it, not being like, oh, this is my life.
23:19
And just falling into it and being like, oh, well, this is it.
23:22
You know, it's like, no, no, no, no.
23:24
I don't want this narrative for myself.
23:26
I'm just going back to the whole relationship breakdown that you had.
23:29
How much of that do you think was attributed, like, you see,
23:33
did you lack self-confidence and all of that, which came from a lack of sex
23:37
and lack of intimacy?
23:38
Was that element of that also a bit of control,
23:42
the fact that he was out earning a salary and almost,
23:48
yeah, I guess contributing to the household income and having that freedom
23:53
which comes with money.
23:54
Absolutely.
23:55
And you were just at home.
23:56
And he had a great journey.
23:57
Not able to money.
23:58
Yeah.
23:59
He was earning loads of money.
24:01
Who doesn't like a nice life?
24:02
I'm not going to apologize for that.
24:04
Yeah.
24:05
The flip side of leaving that is really hard for me right now.
24:08
Like, you know, he was earning really good money.
24:10
I had to pay to move my side then when we did separate.
24:13
I stayed in the house, the same house for two years, which was amazing.
24:17
It was brutal.
24:18
You let the flip amazing now.
24:19
Yeah, I say it's amazing, but it was fucking brutal.
24:22
You know, every morning it was like hand on the door, handle.
24:25
Count to ten and out you calm, because that was hard, especially in lockdown.
24:31
But it did force us into finding a new level of friendship
24:35
because the friendship was never in question.
24:37
I think the intimacy had peeted away and we'd lost each other with trust
24:42
in terms of being able to rely on each other.
24:44
But it was so easy to lose myself in that money as well and that lifestyle.
24:49
And do you think is that particularly because there wasn't a feeling of ownership
24:54
over the life from a financial perspective because, although you were obviously raising,
24:58
your son and you were working in that capacity.
25:02
Did, yeah.
25:04
It was so leading value on my contribution in the home.
25:07
That's how it felt.
25:09
You know, I worked for social services for many years.
25:11
You know, I was, like I said to you, I was on the board of school.
25:14
I was chair of the PTA.
25:16
So to me, I was contributing to my son's wellbeing and the school's wellbeing
25:19
and community, which are all really important to me.
25:22
You know, and I thought that balanced out really, you know,
25:25
that balanced out really nicely because he was making ads for Coca-Cola.
25:29
So I'm like, okay, well, you can work for that giant and we'll enjoy the money
25:33
and I'll contribute to society.
25:35
And to me and my head, that was like a really good balance.
25:38
And it was for a long time.
25:40
It was for a really long time.
25:41
And I think when we moved to America and I couldn't work,
25:43
it really went out of kilter.
25:45
And although I love about settling into doing fuck all that,
25:48
it was really hard to reestablish myself.
25:50
You know, what do I do?
25:51
And I sort of reinvented myself way through.
25:54
I set up pop-up British tea parties throwing, you know, I found a British cake.
25:58
You're amazing.
25:59
But innovation.
26:00
I'm like, wow.
26:01
But America, that's America for you.
26:03
It's rooted in entrepreneurship.
26:05
So they fucking big you up.
26:07
It's being surrounded by American women going fuck yeah.
26:10
And so then when I left my husband, I'm like, now what do I do?
26:12
I've done the vintage, I did the pop-up British tea parties.
26:15
Then I did the vintage shopping tours.
26:17
Then I did the rent my wardrobe.
26:19
And just as rent my wardrobe was starting to really kick off.
26:21
And I was really finding my feet with empowering women through the style.
26:25
Lockdown happened.
26:26
No one's renting clothes and locked down.
26:28
So that was, that just went, wow.
26:30
Then I separated from him.
26:32
But then I started talking about my journey and women started coming.
26:37
You know, people have followed me for my style for a long time.
26:39
I always, you know, I lure them in with my style.
26:42
And I lure them in with clothes.
26:43
But then behind all that is a huge other message of don't get lost in yourself.
26:49
You know, be yourself.
26:50
Dresses, you know, be an individual.
26:52
Don't put yourself, don't follow the damn rulebook.
26:55
Don't just be someone's wife.
26:57
Don't just be someone's mom.
26:59
You can be those things.
27:00
And that's amazing.
27:01
But like, you've got to keep who you are, the center of that.
27:04
I think self-confidence.
27:05
So then when I was looking what, I was like, what do I do next?
27:08
My son's graduating from high school.
27:09
I've spent two years in the spare bedroom.
27:11
I've got no earning capacity in Portland.
27:14
There's very little for me to be able to actually do.
27:17
So I was out for a hike.
27:19
And I saw an old bus by the side of the fucking road.
27:22
And I was just, took one look at it.
27:24
And I was like, maybe I could just move into the bus and live on it.
27:27
And then I went, we could take it on tour.
27:29
I could take Lewin Lewland on tour, which is my Instagram.
27:32
At this point, how many followers did you head and head you got?
27:35
Were you making money from Lewin Lewin?
27:37
No, really little bits.
27:38
When I started doing, I just really reluctant to sell anything
27:43
because I just felt like it diminished from the mission.
27:46
And that comes back.
27:47
I think that's rooted in being a vicar's daughter, a breeze's daughter.
27:50
It's all like the mission's so important to me.
27:52
But I think it's also there's an element of valuing yourself too.
27:55
And maybe you hadn't quite got that point in your confidence journey
27:59
because I think the self-confidence to have sex
28:02
will be naked at the top of the hill as one thing.
28:04
But to then value yourself as a financial exchange
28:07
or what you've learned as someone should pay you for your work.
28:12
I think there's a huge amount of work that needs to be done in that space
28:15
with women and our idea of what we are worth.
28:21
Why do we find that so hard as women?
28:24
I wrote this amazing online course, Confidence Course.
28:27
It was called Positivity Rebels, Step Out of Your Comfort Zone.
28:30
And it was everything from how to give less fucks.
28:32
Like it was brilliant.
28:33
It was going to be so good.
28:34
And then we came out of lockdown at the same time as I sort of finished it.
28:37
And I was like, no one wants to do an online course ever again.
28:40
And that was around the same time that I saw the bus and was like, fuck it.
28:43
I'm going to go on tour and the bus.
28:45
And I'm going to do this live.
28:46
I'm going to throw events, try and pull women together
28:48
because the direct messages I would get from strangers
28:51
was just women desperate for connection, looking for their people,
28:56
finding it really hard, living in isolation, just struggling in their marriages.
29:00
But you're also needing to pay for life.
29:03
And for you to be able to pull under other people's cuts,
29:06
you have to have before on yourself,
29:08
where at least be harmful.
29:10
And you need to be able, like we live in a capitalist society.
29:13
So you have to pay for your life.
29:15
And I think that's what sometimes annoys me,
29:17
like whether it comes to the health and wellbeing space
29:19
or any kind of philanthropy,
29:21
it's almost expected that you need to be the same Theresa
29:24
and not be paid at all.
29:26
And I think it's something that can I struggle with a lot of the curve
29:28
because we're so passionate about wanting to educate people.
29:31
But we also couldn't do it.
29:34
We weren't being paid for it.
29:36
And it's also then valuing your skills here
29:39
and then how much that's worth.
29:41
And I mean, I don't know where you're at in your journey
29:43
with charging now, but are you okay?
29:45
But I've just literally got a finance coach a few weeks back
29:49
because my relationship with money has always been absolutely dreadful.
29:52
Can we start from the beginning?
29:54
What was it like growing up?
29:56
Was it talked about?
29:57
I grew up at a scarcity.
29:59
We didn't that didn't earn a lot of money.
30:00
And that was fine.
30:01
We got a free house with the job.
30:03
And we were pretty much self-sufficient.
30:05
We grew vegetables.
30:06
We had chickens.
30:07
People brought casseroles every Sunday for us.
30:10
And then my mum was a probation officer.
30:13
So I kind of grew up with that.
30:14
Then when I was 17, I got a next directory, which is a catalog.
30:18
I wasn't even old enough.
30:19
I mean, there was no computers back then.
30:21
So there was nobody even a credit check.
30:23
They should not have given me when I just lied on the application.
30:25
What is that?
30:26
What is it?
30:27
A closed catalog, you just look through.
30:29
They gave me credit.
30:31
Like an easy buy kind of pencil.
30:33
Which would be credit.
30:34
Like it's a whole catalog of clothes.
30:36
It's like going on a website now.
30:38
And you get them for free.
30:39
And they give you a line of credit.
30:41
You just order them.
30:42
And you have to pay monthly.
30:43
But there's no computer.
30:44
It's like a label.
30:45
But you get the clothes.
30:46
Yeah.
30:47
Oh my goodness.
30:48
So long.
30:49
So it's kind of like after pay before, after pay wasn't there?
30:51
Yeah.
30:52
And a catalog.
30:53
How can you just disappear from your house and head like 5,000 wardrobes
30:56
that you've never paid for?
30:57
Yeah.
30:58
At the time you could.
30:59
So I was like, so me up.
31:00
After they exist.
31:01
Yeah.
31:02
Well, luckily now there's more credit.
31:03
That's where credit checks came through.
31:05
I'm after I'm ricking around up thousands of pounds worth.
31:08
It's 17.
31:09
But I was still at school.
31:10
But you don't have the education to know.
31:12
No.
31:13
Oh, if I wrecked this up, I'm going to have to pay a pension in school
31:15
about how to find out.
31:16
Like decent.
31:17
Why are we teaching stupid algebra?
31:18
When in schools we should be teaching people financial responsibility.
31:21
How to manage a fucking credit card and how that works.
31:24
So what happened?
31:25
So you started ordering clothes without the money to pay for them.
31:27
Yeah.
31:28
He ended up in how much did it?
31:29
Thousands of pounds.
31:30
Thousands of pounds.
31:31
Wow.
31:32
Not even 18.
31:33
I was still at school.
31:34
It's terrifying.
31:35
And once I remember, the first time it ever came to a head was,
31:38
I told my parents I was going to the theatre with Katie Anderson.
31:41
It's Katie Anderson.
31:43
If you're listening out.
31:44
I still fucking hold you responsible.
31:46
She called my parents.
31:47
She called my house.
31:48
And my dad went, no, she's at the theatre with you and your family.
31:51
And she went, well, shit, forgot.
31:53
And I was actually at nightclub with Brian, my boyfriend from Birmingham.
31:57
So they were all done there.
31:59
I did Brian from Birmingham.
32:00
I've definitely done that.
32:01
And Brian from Birmingham.
32:02
I just, no one wanted to date me when I was like 15.
32:07
I remember telling my parents I'm going to Starbucks to hang out for coffee.
32:11
Sorry.
32:12
No, I said I was going to the movies and we're going to Starbucks,
32:14
hang out with boys for coffee.
32:15
And they mum came home and grilled me about the movie.
32:18
The point I just had made up a storyline as a movie.
32:20
And their mum went and checked the storyline.
32:22
She was like, you little liar.
32:23
You little liar.
32:24
I'm sorry.
32:25
I'm sorry.
32:26
You are terrible.
32:27
I'm sorry.
32:28
I can up here with that because my, I was dancing at this nightclub with Brian.
32:33
And the DJ turned the music off.
32:35
And said, Louisa, your parents are waiting for you in reception.
32:39
Did you just, they could come through my drawers to try and find where I was.
32:43
They'd found my journal and they'd found all the court.
32:45
I had court orders for these unpaid ass.
32:48
Your poor parents.
32:49
My poor parents.
32:50
That would be a bit of a rock bottom moment at 17.
32:54
Being called out on the dance floor.
32:56
No, your parents.
32:57
Do you want a dance floor?
32:58
That was the impression.
32:59
And there's called Michael.
33:00
Oh.
33:01
You're like, sorry, Brian.
33:02
Got to go.
33:03
Sorry, Brian.
33:04
It was nice while it lasted.
33:05
I'm off.
33:06
And they had a pile of all the court orders and they paid them all for me.
33:12
And they put me to work in a factory.
33:14
And I stapled hot rings on a ceramic harps for two summers to pay back the money.
33:19
Well, you're very lucky that your parents could actually pay for it.
33:22
You could do that because that would be a margin.
33:25
If you actually just had no other way out, you couldn't pay for it.
33:28
What do you go to prison?
33:29
What happens?
33:30
Yes.
33:31
They just take your hand.
33:32
You're an actual adult.
33:33
They would take your hand.
33:35
Up and up and up and up.
33:36
And then you would take longer and longer and longer to pay it off.
33:38
But you think I would have learnt my lessons.
33:40
I was about to say.
33:41
Let me anticipate that question.
33:44
No.
33:45
And my battle has continued like that.
33:47
That was a huge issue in our marriage as well.
33:49
We got a joint and we first got together.
33:51
We got a joint account.
33:52
I ran that into debt over and over again.
33:54
And that was before online banking.
33:56
I'm so old fashioned.
33:57
No dick pics.
33:58
No online banking.
33:59
And on a Saturday morning.
34:01
And he wasn't when we were living down in Brighton on the coast.
34:04
And he was commuting to London.
34:05
He wasn't around all week.
34:06
So it was fine if there was letters from the bank.
34:09
I could just pick up the post and hide them.
34:11
But on Saturday mornings, he was home and the postman would come.
34:14
And I would make up all these excuses on a Saturday morning.
34:18
To be up in the bedroom.
34:19
And I would be hanging out of the bedroom waiting for the postman to come.
34:22
So I could insert letters from the bank.
34:24
Wow.
34:25
The scrap.
34:26
But the anxiety.
34:27
And that was probably 15 over 15 years ago.
34:31
Maybe even nearly 18 years ago.
34:33
And still when I see a postman.
34:35
I get anxiety.
34:36
Wow.
34:37
I get anxiety.
34:38
I might even cry because it was such an awful time.
34:40
It was awful.
34:41
But over him too.
34:42
Like it was horrid.
34:44
He said, tell him money.
34:45
I was spending it as fast as he made it.
34:48
So then, of course, eventually the bank called and he got found out.
34:53
So then I came off the joint account.
34:56
I was like, I can't be trusted with any form of credit whatsoever.
35:00
So then I just started getting shady credit cards from shady places
35:04
with huge interest repayments.
35:06
I got caught stealing money from work because I borrowed so much money.
35:10
I was stealing money to pay that back.
35:12
So my money shame is just a lifetime of shame around money.
35:17
Firstly, I thank you for sharing.
35:21
I can't do it.
35:22
I can resonate because I think like I've done some really shameful things with money too.
35:27
And it's important to put our hands up and be honest about it.
35:32
Because firstly, it's a lot more common than we realise it can feel so isolating
35:38
when you make decisions like that again and again and again.
35:41
And you don't know how to get out of it.
35:43
And you think you're the only one struggling with it.
35:45
And obviously that would have been so impactful to your overall confidence,
35:49
to your relationship dynamic, to everything.
35:52
I mean, when the bank called and it was sort of the culmination
35:57
you got taken off the account, at that point,
36:00
did you think about trying it differently?
36:03
Or did you not even know how...
36:05
I've tried so many times.
36:07
I've been through so many therapy trying to figure out
36:10
because it makes no sense to me like when I look at stealing money from work,
36:13
that's so not who I am.
36:15
And it was a small female own business,
36:17
which is all I do now is try to support female own businesses.
36:20
That's the crux of, you know, the brands that I work with are all small
36:24
female own business, just stolen from that woman,
36:26
who when she found out,
36:28
kept me on for six months.
36:30
So I could, you know, because she meant that's not who you are.
36:33
And I know that's not who I am.
36:35
And it's only in the last sort of year or so,
36:38
that actually a few people, when I've spoken events,
36:41
somebody came up to me asking an event when you're so ADHD,
36:44
you should probably get diagnosed.
36:46
And I went, all right, God, that's rude.
36:48
Who's just diagnosing each other now?
36:50
Is that what's happening?
36:52
And it really irked me.
36:53
So I was like, fuck him.
36:54
And then I went around for six months going,
36:56
keep just mad, just came up to me and went,
36:57
you've got ADHD and people just get going.
36:59
So many people actually said it to me that I decided to practice having ADHD.
37:05
So I started to just sort of like think about things.
37:08
If it was ADHD, does that make sense?
37:11
And my whole life just suddenly clicked into place.
37:13
It's so funny.
37:14
You said that because when you were talking,
37:16
before you even mentioned the money situation,
37:18
I thought, because I've just recently been diagnosed.
37:20
I can see it in people now.
37:22
I never, ever could before.
37:24
And we had people listening to the podcast,
37:26
ages ago, messaged us when I found out and shared it,
37:28
saying that they knew just from listening.
37:31
And I was like, how did I get to 32?
37:33
And no one knew or told me that.
37:35
And I'm angry about it.
37:36
And actually, it massively affects the dead piece
37:40
and not being able to control impulse spending.
37:42
It's impulsive.
37:43
Huge.
37:44
I was like, my whole life now makes sense to me.
37:47
And people who know me, it's strange that my family,
37:51
my sister's also ADHD.
37:53
So she's like, aha, the rest of my family are like,
37:56
you're just making excuses.
37:58
But when I do frame it around ADHD,
38:00
it does make sense to me.
38:02
And one of the funniest parts of the journey is,
38:04
it's one of the things I'd never talked about.
38:06
I always go, well, I'm really bad with money.
38:08
And I had given up shopping for a year, for example,
38:11
to try and see if I could sus out what my patterns were.
38:14
And that did really help.
38:16
I changed the way that I shopped.
38:18
I started to look at different ways of spending.
38:21
And that's when I really got into vintage clothes.
38:23
I started re-styling what I already had.
38:25
And it was my first foray online was starting this blog.
38:28
The shoot too far.
38:29
I'd bought this really expensive pair of shoes
38:31
and freak myself out.
38:32
Right.
38:33
It's just another shopping project when I was 41.
38:36
And that was the very, very now when I look back,
38:38
that was the very, very beginnings of the self-love revolution.
38:40
Because that was the first time after I'd done that year.
38:43
I was like, oh my god, if I could do that,
38:45
I could do anything I'd put my mind to.
38:47
And I was 41.
38:49
And then it took me another little while to find my voice.
38:52
So then going circling all the way back to the self-love revolution,
38:55
all the podcasts that I've done over the years,
38:57
I'd never really, I'd never talked about stealing.
39:00
And then I went on a podcast,
39:02
a dirty mother of Pucker,
39:04
and also one with Dorno Porter,
39:05
both of which have a million listeners.
39:07
And of course, all the podcasts I've done,
39:10
I just blur out, and I got stole,
39:11
I got caught stealing money from work,
39:13
to a million listeners.
39:15
It was one of the most powerful things I ever did.
39:17
My direct messages were just blew up more than anything
39:21
I talked about before.
39:22
And the women living in shame and the dark shadows of shame
39:26
around money, you too know, I'm sure.
39:29
It blew my mind, but it was the first time I realised
39:33
it wasn't just me, I thought it was just me,
39:35
the secrets and the lies.
39:37
And it did affect, it does affect your confidence
39:39
because you just feel like you're lying.
39:41
I didn't deserve anything because I'd stolen money and I'd lied.
39:45
So I just moved my, I was just like,
39:47
it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, just keep quiet.
39:49
So it was a massive,
39:51
it's all part of the huge journey.
39:54
And it's so free, just to own my shit now.
39:57
And just be out there.
39:59
And you know, knowing that by sharing my darkish shame,
40:02
help us other women in their shame as well.
40:04
And I was like, oh my god, I'm,
40:06
I'm a flicking saint compared to some of the stories
40:09
I heard from other women.
40:11
One woman inherited 150 grand and never told her husband
40:14
spent the whole lot.
40:15
Oh, I know.
40:16
I was like, oh my god, okay.
40:18
It's a serious underlying shouldn't it?
40:20
Relationship.
40:21
Yeah, I'm like, gosh.
40:23
No, no, thank you so much.
40:25
I think it is, it's so true.
40:26
It's like the more we don't talk about it,
40:28
the more people keep it to themselves.
40:31
And it eats away at them.
40:33
And it's like, it's so refreshing.
40:36
And yeah, I just can't, I honestly can't thank you enough.
40:38
This is exactly what this podcast is about.
40:40
It's to help, hopefully,
40:42
give people a comfortable environment.
40:44
Just have conversations about again, you know,
40:46
if we'd gone on date night,
40:47
would we have our conversations about it?
40:49
I don't know, I don't know.
40:50
I also think, I mean, have you since then
40:52
looked at your impulse spending
40:54
and try to either journal about it
40:56
or try and connect the dots
40:58
with what you're doing
41:00
and the moment of spending,
41:01
because I haven't unraveled that yet.
41:03
But I'm just curious to know if you've,
41:05
because there is, there is a moment
41:07
of like, I kind of get lost
41:09
in this feeling of like, I'm online shopping
41:11
and I've added all the stuff to the basket.
41:13
And I have this really intense anxiety,
41:15
knowing I can't afford it.
41:17
Yeah, I'm just wondering if you have got
41:19
to a place now where you can kind of
41:21
talk yourself off an impulse spending ledge.
41:23
Some days I can and some days I can't.
41:25
It's interesting, because people always go,
41:27
oh, it's to fill a gap.
41:28
You shopping's to fill a gap.
41:29
And for years, I've gone,
41:30
it fucking isn't.
41:31
I know it's not that.
41:32
I don't shop when I'm sad.
41:33
I shop when I feel good.
41:35
I shop when I'm high.
41:36
Like I recorded my first podcast episode
41:39
for my podcast, walked out of the studio,
41:41
walked straight to Ganny and spent 600 books.
41:43
Like, what the fuck is that?
41:45
Because I went on a high.
41:47
So now I realize that that's what it is.
41:50
Do you take things back if you feel guilty or how have you?
41:53
No, I've managed to curb it recently.
41:56
This is why I've finally got myself a financial coach
41:59
because when I left America,
42:02
we were neither of us really worked with COVID
42:05
so most of the savings had gone.
42:07
So when I left,
42:08
there actually wasn't much to leave with in terms of,
42:10
in the divorce.
42:11
So we sold our house and I got half the house and spent a lot,
42:15
I spent the lot in the last 18 months.
42:17
And I've bits, you know, I like a lot of women.
42:22
I didn't want to cause a ruckus in the divorce
42:24
even to the last fucking drop.
42:26
Even though I was leaving on this dam bus
42:28
on the self-love revolution,
42:29
I still didn't want to cause a fuss over the divorce
42:32
and go to court over the money.
42:34
So I just went just give me half the house and I go.
42:36
So I literally left with half the house.
42:37
I had to pay to get myself home,
42:39
pay to set myself up again, you know, really.
42:43
And meanwhile, you've been raising a child for what was a tin.
42:47
I don't know how old he is now, but yet so many years
42:50
which isn't valued as a dollar term,
42:52
but it is definitely work.
42:54
It should be somehow.
42:55
It should be.
42:56
It should be somewhere, you know,
42:57
and again, going back to, you know,
42:59
teaching for the shit in school, you know,
43:01
teaching boys that, you know,
43:03
this is worth money when you will get married and you have a kid.
43:06
This is how it works, you know,
43:08
instead of us having to scrabble around and fight it.
43:11
But yeah, even in the divorce,
43:13
even in the middle of the self-love revolution,
43:15
I still walked away with probably a lot less than I should have done.
43:19
And now that's, you know,
43:21
it's biting me on the ass.
43:22
In some poetic way, I'm like,
43:24
maybe I just had to spend that fucking money.
43:26
The last few months have been absolutely rock bottom financially for me,
43:30
adjusting to life by yourself.
43:32
You know, I've got no backup anymore.
43:35
I think there's an ADHD element to that too.
43:37
I don't know if this is something you can resonate with.
43:39
But for me, it has to get so bad that I'm,
43:43
I don't know if Threaten's the right word.
43:45
But, you know, you might be able to resonate with this in terms of the court finds
43:49
or things coming in.
43:50
It's not until you genuinely could go to jail that you might do something about it.
43:54
Like, because the way our brains work is, you know,
43:58
a reminder isn't enough to scare you into paying something back.
44:01
Whereas for someone who's neurotypical,
44:03
one letter of a reminder is like,
44:04
oh, should I put a do that?
44:05
Yeah.
44:06
But for people who are neurodivergent,
44:08
it's a lot harder to flick that like action switch to do something about it.
44:12
And so the hitting rock bottom financially in some bizarre way
44:18
will get you to a place where that then puts a fire up your bum
44:22
because you've got no other choice.
44:23
But to sort your money out.
44:25
But until you get to that point,
44:27
you might not see it as as urgent.
44:28
Whereas someone else is going to make changes much earlier.
44:31
I think I've learned also that for me in the last few years,
44:36
the things that I'm scared of the most is where I'm fucking learning
44:39
and I'm growing and I'm living.
44:40
And I'm like, this is what I know,
44:43
I have confidence in the fact that I know that what I'm learning right now
44:47
is going to carry me through.
44:49
But this finance coach has really made a difference to me in terms of,
44:53
we're not even touched on the finances really.
44:56
We're just looking at my relationship with money.
44:58
And why, for example, can I not just,
45:01
why have I not got a subscription service?
45:03
Why am I not, you know, where's my online community?
45:06
You've given it all away for free.
45:08
Why have you not got a subscription service?
45:10
Women would pay to be part of this community.
45:13
And I'm like, but I've been giving it away for so long.
45:15
It feels really hard to suddenly change it.
45:17
And like, I want to be inclusive.
45:18
And I don't want people to feel excluded.
45:20
And she's like, have you thought about the fact that you're doing women
45:23
to just service?
45:24
Find out, judge.
45:25
Yeah.
45:26
And I went, oh, fucking hell.
45:28
Yeah.
45:29
And I thought about it.
45:30
It's not charging for the, for your value.
45:32
Yeah.
45:33
You are teaching women to have value within themselves.
45:35
And you are devaluing yourself.
45:37
You're talking about showing up for yourself,
45:39
showing up for everybody else.
45:40
What is that showing everybody else?
45:41
It's interesting with, when it comes to freelancers,
45:44
a lot of people I heard when I was freelancing say that,
45:46
I was like, don't undercharge,
45:48
because that's meaning everyone else has to pull their rights down.
45:51
Yeah.
45:52
What you're pulling down your right is I get it,
45:55
because it's like you want to get some money in the door.
45:57
But actually, if you don't value yourself,
45:59
then everybody else around you, what they value themselves as,
46:02
is being like kind of chopped in half to.
46:06
And it's, yeah, it's like, it's interesting when you start to think,
46:09
oh, this isn't just me that this is a factor from a worth perspective.
46:12
And it's the, like, the more that you can monetize and charge,
46:15
the bigger you can grow, the bigger your audience will grow,
46:18
you can reach more women.
46:19
Exactly.
46:20
Like, it's like a cycle, but you need to get on that wheel.
46:23
Got to get on the braper.
46:24
Yeah.
46:25
The braper set was hard.
46:26
Like, we had to do it at the curve.
46:27
And we were, we were doing events.
46:29
Our first event was free.
46:30
You know, you do have to start from somewhere.
46:32
But then I also think women also have the IQ feeling of, like, being successful.
46:36
And if you did start charging, you were successful.
46:38
There is that element of success, financial success,
46:41
sorry, that like, still feels a bit uncomfortable.
46:44
And like, is it like in New Zealand?
46:47
Because I remember in the States, I was talking to my therapist.
46:50
And she said to me, I was planning the tour.
46:54
So I bought this bus.
46:55
I'd seen this bus by the side of the road.
46:57
I bought what I crowdfunded the bus.
46:59
So that was the first kind of real, okay, the community are behind me.
47:02
You know, that feeling was incredible.
47:05
Yeah.
47:06
People backing me.
47:07
And then I found all these sponsors that back the missions pay for the tour.
47:10
And I was like, okay, this is fucking wild.
47:12
People believe in what I'm doing.
47:14
Americans are like, have money.
47:16
Oh my God.
47:17
Like, when we first moved there, people were like, oh my God, you should borrow our lake house.
47:21
Am I going to my husband?
47:22
Do they want to sleep with us?
47:23
Like, bridge people are like, why?
47:26
What's the hidden thing here?
47:28
What's going on here?
47:29
It's so exciting.
47:30
But Americans are like, fuck it.
47:31
You know, and I'm like, I want to buy this vintage bus.
47:33
It's probably going to break down a tunnel and drive it around America,
47:36
breaching self-love and confidence.
47:37
And Americans are like, dude, bridge people are be like,
47:41
have you seen the process of pretrial?
47:42
I like the M25s that I met.
47:44
You know, it's America, the culture's very, very different.
47:47
And my therapist said, I was talking about the bus tour and she went,
47:50
you remember so ambitious.
47:51
I mean, I'm not ambitious.
47:52
And she went, you bought a bus and you're driving around the stage.
47:56
You don't know what you're doing.
47:57
What the fuck you want about?
47:58
You're not ambitious.
47:59
And I mean, I'm not ambitious.
48:00
And she went, why have you got a problem with that?
48:02
What?
48:03
I'm like, because a British woman is not, should not be ambitious.
48:06
Like, that just screams greed and that I want money.
48:09
And I don't want money.
48:10
I just want to, all I want to do is cover the expenses with the tour
48:13
so I can afford to do it and do this mission.
48:15
And she was like, I went, I just have big ideas.
48:17
She went, that's ambition.
48:19
Also, why is greed always related to ambition?
48:23
It's a bad word.
48:24
It's like, it's so bizarre because there's,
48:27
I reckon there's a lot of reverse psychology around, you, I mean,
48:31
what?
48:32
We're going to bring Taylor Swift up here.
48:33
But you know her song, which is like, if I was a man,
48:35
it's like it's so true.
48:36
If she goes and dates 50,000 people, people are like,
48:39
you're a slut.
48:40
You're a this, whereas if Leonardo DiCaprio is dead,
48:43
they're like, when are you old?
48:44
And like, Posatana, they're like, get it.
48:47
You know, and it's the same with money.
48:49
It's so strange.
48:50
How if men are ambitious and want to grow their money,
48:52
it's like, you're a provider.
48:53
You're sexy.
48:54
You're sexy.
48:55
You're hot.
48:56
But then if it's women, it's gross and greedy and tacky.
48:58
It's like, it's all just the whole connotation with money.
49:01
It's like, if you talk about, even just the word,
49:03
like the first one that comes to mind when you think of money,
49:05
it's like, it's greed or light.
49:07
Whereas it needs to be like, freedom, empowerment, you know,
49:10
like, well, you just need to change that narrative
49:12
and change that view that money can be used for good.
49:16
It doesn't have to be.
49:17
And we have to do that in our own heads.
49:18
Yes, exactly.
49:19
Yeah.
49:20
What have you learned through your financial coach so far?
49:22
Have there been any massive takeaways
49:24
that might be helpful for other people to hear?
49:26
I mean, that for sure was one of them.
49:28
And she said, you know, and she said, what is it?
49:30
And I was, I don't know if it's the Vickers daughter in me
49:33
or the fact that it's a mission that I'm trying to achieve.
49:36
So will you just start writing pound signs next to things?
49:40
Please, just start visualising pound signs.
49:42
And it's the silliest, tiniest thing.
49:45
But I'm doing it.
49:46
And it's day at a time.
49:49
And she, it's interesting.
49:51
I, in my podcast, launching one of the episodes is finances.
49:55
And she came on with another guy called Peter,
49:58
who's also a finance guy.
50:00
And I heard him speak at the Do lectures,
50:02
which is an interesting,
50:04
it's a weekend of inspiring speakers.
50:07
And he stood up, interesting guys, born in Nigeria,
50:11
and was sent here to live.
50:13
They farmed kids out to live with British families.
50:16
Anyway, his first line of his talk was,
50:19
what's your first memory of money?
50:21
Your very first memory of money.
50:22
That is your relationship with money for the rest of your life.
50:24
And I couldn't, I barely listened to the rest of the talk.
50:27
Because my first memory of money was stealing money.
50:29
Oh, my God, so is mine.
50:30
I stole something.
50:31
It gets my first memory.
50:32
And I had to go outside the barn to the talks in a barn.
50:35
And I just cried my eyes out for the next 20 minutes
50:37
and missed most of the talk.
50:39
But it was absolutely fascinating.
50:42
But she was talking about the excitement of saving.
50:44
She's always been a saver.
50:46
So he grew up with scarcity and being, being broke.
50:49
And he's also been a big spender.
50:51
And he's now a financial advisor.
50:53
She has always been a saver she has.
50:55
Her earliest memories is red tin for saving money.
50:58
And she loved stuffing it full of money.
51:01
And by the end of the podcast, I was like,
51:03
I'm going to get a red tin.
51:05
And I'm going to fill that tin.
51:07
And I've been seeing now, bizarrely,
51:09
these things on Instagram keeps coming up
51:11
where people are saving the cash in the plastic wallets.
51:14
Have you seen that?
51:15
No.
51:16
It's almost like it's a way of budgeting.
51:18
And it's saying, I'm going to have this much cash for the week.
51:20
So day one, you put a pound in, day two.
51:22
You put two in, day three.
51:23
You put three pounds in and you do.
51:25
You fill it all the way up.
51:26
And then if you fill the whole thing up,
51:27
you've got like five thousand pounds and you do it.
51:29
Amazing.
51:30
I'm changing around the house.
51:31
Or you just do it every day.
51:33
And I know a few people doing it.
51:35
And I'm like, I want to get, I can't do it yet.
51:37
In a couple of months, I will.
51:38
But I'm like, I'm going to do that.
51:40
I want to save money.
51:41
I've become obsessed with the thought of saving money.
51:43
Both of them made me so excited.
51:45
The thought of being addicted to the saving.
51:48
I think you've got to find the way that resonates with you.
51:52
Like it might not be investing in the stock market
51:55
or in closer and however it is.
51:57
But if for you what you find excitement or drive around
52:00
when it comes to money and changing the way you do it.
52:03
For example, for you, it's something physical and tangible
52:05
that you can actually do.
52:07
That's your thing.
52:08
And like that's amazing.
52:09
And I think it's similar to like learning at school.
52:12
Not everyone learns the same way.
52:14
And when you find that thing that's your aha moment
52:17
when it comes to your finances, I think you've got to just rumble that.
52:20
And that's what I wish that we'd learned.
52:22
Because our brains will work so, so, so differently.
52:24
What's going to get Vic to do something is not going to get me to.
52:28
And so I'm stoked to hear that you found an amazing financial coach.
52:32
And I just also, I mean, we've been talking for nearly an hour
52:36
and I'm aware of your time.
52:38
And I mean, I've got so many questions.
52:40
But Vic, did you want to ask maybe a final?
52:42
Yeah, finishing on kind of what advice would you have for women
52:45
that are wanting to prioritize self-confidence, self-love,
52:49
finances related or not?
52:51
Maybe starting to look at things that feel really prickly and uncomfortable.
52:55
Start with your nagging discontent.
52:57
Yeah.
52:58
And don't race to this perfect picture of what you think, you know,
53:02
don't be like, that's what I want, necessarily.
53:05
You know, start with, it's a journey and enjoying that.
53:10
And just thinking, I've got, oh, is that stupid meme on Instagram?
53:13
I've got, you've got 75 years.
53:15
That 75 summers, 75 winters, 75 springs and 75 autumn.
53:21
That sounds so little.
53:23
That's how much time we have on average.
53:25
Like, got to make the most of every day.
53:27
But start small, you know, if you've lost your confidence
53:30
and you're trying to find it start with, you know,
53:32
we're in a good outfit for the day.
53:34
See how it feels?
53:35
So much of this comes back to just knowing how you feel.
53:38
You know, we shove our problems away.
53:40
We think we'll deal with it tomorrow.
53:42
Like, just feel, try and figure out how you feel.
53:45
Journaling, you brought up journaling.
53:47
It's so important for so many things.
53:49
Like, wow, I don't have time for it.
53:51
Make, if you do one thing, make time just to write down
53:54
because just by sitting down and writing out how you feel,
53:57
you can sort so many things out in your head.
53:59
You feel differently about them.
54:00
Somewhere from your brain to writing it out,
54:02
you kind of think about things in such a specific way
54:06
or in a completely fresh way, you know,
54:09
but track how you feel.
54:11
I think, does that feel right?
54:13
It's the way that person's speaking to me.
54:14
Is that friend making me feel good?
54:16
Is that husband, you know, really topping up my cup here?
54:20
Is that, you know, colleague at work,
54:22
just actually putting me down.
54:24
Just start really chewing into how you feel
54:26
and what sits right and what you're prepared to put up with
54:29
and then just, you know, go on bloody date nights as well.
54:32
Go on date night.
54:34
Go on the date night.
54:36
Thank you for being so brave and open
54:39
because it does take people like you to change the way
54:43
a lot of people live their life.
54:46
And I don't know what it is about people with ADHD,
54:50
but it feels like me.
54:52
If there's one thing we're good at, it is oversharing.
54:54
But oversharing is what helps other people have
54:57
uncomfortable, scary conversations.
54:59
So thank you for, and thank you for making me excited
55:02
about what my life posted.
55:04
I was going to get more fabulous than six years I get older.
55:08
Totally. I know. How fun.
55:10
I'm just going to get beaten up.
55:12
That's so exciting.
55:14
And you know what, when you show up for yourself,
55:16
you show up for everybody else around you,
55:18
your kids, your friends, other women, you know,
55:21
when it's so small, it doesn't have to be like life.
55:23
You don't have to get up the top of a mountain
55:25
and take your clothes off or buy a vintage bus
55:27
and throw it over an American can be, you know,
55:29
just wearing a fun outfit and inspiring someone else on the bus.
55:32
You know, it doesn't have to be life changing,
55:34
but one step at a time.
55:36
Thank you.
55:38
You're welcome.
55:39
I mean, probably about your sub-word,
55:40
given the curve.
55:41
Hey woman.
55:42
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
55:47
These conversations are designed to teach you everything
55:50
that you need to know to be better with your money,
55:52
from saving, to investing, to talking to your friends
55:55
about your salaries.
55:56
And if you liked what you heard, we would love it.
55:59
If you could hit subscribe button, please.
56:01
Or, leave a review.
56:03
It'll only take five seconds,
56:05
and it would really make our week.
56:07
Yeah.
56:08
Alma.
56:09
Okay.
56:10
Lots and lots.
56:11
See you soon.
56:12
Bye.