Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / All Blacks Squad Reaction! Can They Topple the Boks, Aussies & Pumas? And... Were the Lions Overrated?

Transcript

All Blacks Squad Reaction! Can They Topple the Boks, Aussies & Pumas? And... Were the Lions Overrated? · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  I'm still in the back line, I still feel it's not the all blacks of old.
• 0:05
  The thing that concerns me the most about probably the South African side is just some of the pace you've got out wide.
• 0:12
  While the big boys are down, do you worry a little bit about the New Zealand pace?
• 0:16
  They're like, oh damn, these guys are coming back now.
• 0:19
  You gotta speed the game up.
• 0:21
  Like New Zealand.
• 0:22
  It ought to play like New Zealand.
• 0:24
  Have you been in the front row? Do you know that pressure with two minutes crump?
• 0:30
  Welcome to Rivals, I've got Sir John Cohen from Italy and Victor Matfield from a cafe in Victoria.
• 0:38
  I'm imagining Victor, is that what you are?
• 0:41
  Yes, starting to become spring, winter's almost over.
• 0:45
  So nice to sit outside, you're on a nice deck at one of the coffee shops and speak to you two guys.
• 0:51
  Beautiful.
• 0:52
  We're getting a great insight into your lifestyle because you're either at a golf course, a cafe or a game park.
• 0:57
  I can't sit down for too long, so I need to move around and need to have different sceneries around me, the old pub.
• 1:06
  So yeah, show you the life of Victor.
• 1:10
  Yeah.
• 1:11
  So instead of Rivals, we can call this the life of Victor.
• 1:15
  Now, the all black teams just been announced. I'll start with you, JK. What do you think?
• 1:20
  Yeah, I thought it was interesting. Obviously, Leo Willey being left out will be pretty gutted because it's not very often you sort of come in and play a test match and a couple of test matches.
• 1:29
  I thought he did pretty well and then you get, then you get left out of sight.
• 1:33
  So that would have been a hard phone call to make.
• 1:35
  Yeah, I think it's got really good balance.
• 1:37
  Obviously, they're taking a few guys with niggly injuries. I don't know how long it's going to take to get over a foot fracture.
• 1:44
  You know, and I think he's pretty important to have Cam Roy guard.
• 1:48
  So, you know, I think it's a well-balanced side. I think it's a side that can take on South Africa.
• 1:53
  I mean, and the New York Aussie side, I mean, how quick fortunes change.
• 1:59
  But yeah, I think it's a well-balanced side. You know, I like what they're doing.
• 2:03
  I think if we can establish a, continue to establish a style of play, which I saw in against France.
• 2:11
  It's going to be a great series. I cannot wait.
• 2:13
  Especially after Australia, sort of, you know, performing as they did over the series.
• 2:20
  So that's France C, going to Victor. Victor, is this a team that's going to beat South Africa?
• 2:27
  I think it's a good team.
• 2:30
  I do like what they doing the tight five. I think there's a lot of experience there, firstly.
• 2:37
  There's a lot of youngsters coming through that can make impact.
• 2:41
  We saw this weekend with Australia, the difference, Dupeau, and Skelton is making.
• 2:49
  And John has been talking about this Holland kid, a big body.
• 2:54
  We can have a big impact. So I think in the tight five, they're looking really good.
• 2:59
  I think Satiti coming back last year was outstanding.
• 3:02
  So that will be a big plus for them.
• 3:05
  I'm still in the backline. I still feel it's not the all blacks of all the way.
• 3:11
  You look at the backline, you think, how are we going to keep them under control?
• 3:16
  It's pretty much the same faces we see there for the last few years.
• 3:21
  So I think the back is definitely getting better.
• 3:26
  I don't see that bigger threat in the backs, like you normally have with all blacks.
• 3:32
  I think the games change so much now.
• 3:36
  It's so combative when you see people like Aki,
• 3:42
  I mean, look at Jordy Barrett.
• 3:46
  He's in between you and me. He's a big man, 194, 195.
• 3:52
  I just think with the pressure now on the midfield,
• 3:57
  it's tough to get wide early.
• 4:00
  It's tough to create that flowing game.
• 4:03
  So I think we're seeing a whole lot more of these big men that are a bit closer to loose forwards
• 4:08
  than they are at the outside back.
• 4:11
  I'm confident with the experience.
• 4:14
  I'm pleased Leroy Carter's coming.
• 4:17
  It concerns me the most about probably the South African side.
• 4:21
  It's just some of the pace you've got out wide.
• 4:23
  You've got some real genuine pace.
• 4:25
  And I love pace out wide.
• 4:27
  We've sort of tended to gone recently for big,
• 4:30
  like put Rico back on the wing Caleb Clark coming in.
• 4:34
  So I like that Leroy Carter, although it's an injury replacement, is coming.
• 4:38
  Because I think that if you can free up, pace is important.
• 4:42
  Like when you get half a break,
• 4:44
  and we saw that in the Lions test, right?
• 4:47
  So I understand what you're saying.
• 4:49
  But I think I settled a midfield now that can get you over the advantage line
• 4:53
  and get you rolling forward.
• 4:55
  And I think especially against South Africa,
• 4:57
  because if you can't get that front football, it's going to be pretty tough day out.
• 5:01
  That's probably one thing you need these days.
• 5:03
  I think all the top teams got a 12 that can get you over that vantage line.
• 5:08
  You don't really see the second playmaker 12 anymore.
• 5:12
  You need someone that can bash it up, get that go for it.
• 5:16
  And saying about the back line last year,
• 5:19
  whenever Wal Jordan was at 15, they also look different.
• 5:23
  I just think he makes a huge difference when he's at 15,
• 5:27
  rather than on the wing.
• 5:29
  The influence that he's got from 15, it's amazing.
• 5:32
  So I don't say it's a bad back line.
• 5:36
  It's just not that, I mean, in the past, when you played,
• 5:39
  it's just like, how are we going to stop these skies?
• 5:42
  But it's a steady solid, it's good players.
• 5:46
  And I mean, Jody is one of the best players in the world at 12.
• 5:50
  So yeah, it's going to be competitive.
• 5:53
  Going to wait for the Eden Park test.
• 5:55
  Yes.
• 5:56
  Bring it on.
• 5:58
  Let's talk about the Lions Aussies.
• 6:01
  One of us actually picked that Australia was going to win the test.
• 6:06
  I think it was me actually.
• 6:09
  And you both got it wrong.
• 6:12
  But Aussie's gone from being, you know, distraught,
• 6:16
  you know, second-ten nation to the whole country believing
• 6:19
  it's one of the best in the world again.
• 6:21
  So what did you think of Australia's performance?
• 6:24
  So firstly, John and myself said he needs to make changes.
• 6:28
  So he didn't listen to us. That's why I lost.
• 6:31
  So that's the first thing.
• 6:33
  It's very difficult to pick yourself up for a third test.
• 6:36
  We've been there in 2009 after the second test match.
• 6:41
  You really go big and it's celebrations.
• 6:44
  The series is over after you've won and 2-0.
• 6:46
  And to pick yourself up, even if you're just at 2-3% of the pace,
• 6:51
  it's just not the same.
• 6:53
  But in the Aussies played well and I said it early in the chat that
• 6:58
  two-bow fit and ready to go skeleton.
• 7:03
  That makes it a different type 5 for the Aussies.
• 7:07
  And if they go, get going forward, we know they can play.
• 7:10
  So yeah, they look good.
• 7:13
  But the real test will come in a few weeks' time.
• 7:16
  Yeah, I think that, you know, they had a goal.
• 7:21
  The Lions had a goal and they achieved it in the second test.
• 7:25
  I think that they did not improve over the series.
• 7:29
  In fact, they got worked.
• 7:30
  I think the Australian team improved.
• 7:33
  You know, Will skeleton coming in.
• 7:35
  I mean, if some of his stuff was borderline, Victor would have loved it.
• 7:38
  You know, Victor would have loved it.
• 7:40
  He was starting confrontation. He was niggling.
• 7:43
  He's a big body.
• 7:45
  And the Lions just didn't seem on their game.
• 7:48
  I mean, when you looked at the second test and all the mistakes they made,
• 7:52
  you know, you would think coming from the UK,
• 7:55
  you'd be dealing with the weather better.
• 7:57
  I mean, Sydney now has these weather bombs,
• 8:00
  but normally you go to Sydney and you're thinking,
• 8:02
  you're going to be playing in pretty good weather, right?
• 8:05
  I thought the Lions would have adapted to that weather a lot better.
• 8:09
  But you could see that the Australians were stung, they were hurt.
• 8:12
  You know, in an Australian that's offended,
• 8:16
  hurt is going to really pick up the game.
• 8:18
  And it's interesting, isn't it?
• 8:20
  How much emotion matters in this game?
• 8:22
  You can't just go through the process.
• 8:25
  So for me, I was really stoked for Australia.
• 8:28
  I think it makes for a great championship for us.
• 8:31
  I think, you know, they've got,
• 8:34
  if you can keep those guys well,
• 8:37
  like Victor mentioned, you know, skeleton and Valentini and guys like that,
• 8:41
  although he's out now.
• 8:43
  But DuPois has always been, you know, a dynamic sort of prop.
• 8:47
  You can keep them on the field, they are a different side.
• 8:50
  So, you know, for me, it was the Lions probably let themselves down a wee bit
• 8:55
  because they didn't get better over the series because they won it in the second test.
• 8:59
  So, you know, it's going to be,
• 9:01
  the Australians really in the first 20 minutes
• 9:04
  and the first test let themselves down,
• 9:06
  but then they've played consistently better.
• 9:08
  So I'm stoked for them.
• 9:09
  I think it's great for the game, you know?
• 9:11
  Great, great for our series coming up,
• 9:14
  with that intensity, it's going to be a pretty great series.
• 9:18
  I think it's fantastic for the rugby championships.
• 9:21
  We need a strong Australia,
• 9:23
  the Southern atmosphere need them.
• 9:25
  So, yeah, I think it's going to be great.
• 9:28
  They will be competitive.
• 9:31
  And yeah, like I said, it's going to be fantastic.
• 9:35
  And I've always said it.
• 9:37
  And that's why it's always so nice with a Bucky's Blutter
• 9:40
  or with, you've been hit a bit there.
• 9:43
  If you go on the field and you know you can intimidate the position,
• 9:48
  you can control.
• 9:49
  And that's what skeleton did on the weekend.
• 9:51
  I mean, he was pushy, he was in it from the beginning
• 9:54
  and no one could step up to him.
• 9:56
  I think they did, Mr. Galaik McCarthy,
• 9:58
  in that second round,
• 9:59
  and once Etoji got injured as well,
• 10:02
  that tight five just looked really average.
• 10:06
  Yeah, that big guy in the back, the enforcer,
• 10:10
  if you've got him and you're on the front foot,
• 10:13
  makes it taste so much easier.
• 10:15
  Do you think that intimidation Victor is okay?
• 10:20
  You know, the first push off the ball
• 10:22
  that started that original scuffle
• 10:24
  was just a deliberate attempt to provoke
• 10:28
  and to instigate what happened.
• 10:30
  And then you've got Nick White as well.
• 10:32
  Nick White was in front, of course,
• 10:34
  pushing and pulling and getting under the skin of glass.
• 10:37
  I think it's part of Rackby.
• 10:39
  If you can do it clever without overstepping that line,
• 10:43
  getting into trouble,
• 10:44
  but to be there in the face,
• 10:46
  that's what Rackby is about.
• 10:47
  You need to dominate, you need to be on the front foot.
• 10:50
  And sometimes he does need something a little bit of that.
• 10:54
  As long as you don't overplay your hand,
• 10:57
  but I mean, that intimidation being there,
• 11:00
  and he knew no one can take him on.
• 11:02
  He's just bigger, stronger than anyone else there.
• 11:05
  So, it's good to get in the scuffle
• 11:07
  and you're in the front foot.
• 11:08
  The previous Lion series,
• 11:10
  I mean, it's good to try to get into Yeb and it's a bit.
• 11:14
  And Yeb and just walked him all over.
• 11:16
  And the second piece, he almost dived trying to buy penalty.
• 11:19
  Once that happened, I knew the test series was over
• 11:21
  because if your enforcer gives a step back trying to get a penalty
• 11:25
  rather than getting on the front foot,
• 11:27
  being the enforcer,
• 11:30
  then you're in trouble and well done to sculpt him.
• 11:33
  I thought that was interesting.
• 11:34
  Ricardo, I didn't read a lot of stuff,
• 11:36
  but I thought you're in Australia at the moment.
• 11:38
  I thought it was interesting.
• 11:40
  Joe Smith said about Titsiano that he'd got a lot of scrolling
• 11:44
  and got a lot of abuse for taking a dive.
• 11:48
  I thought that was really interesting
• 11:50
  that he left him out for those reasons,
• 11:52
  a sore neck.
• 11:53
  And I would have done the opposite.
• 11:55
  I would have played him.
• 11:57
  I mean, as players, when you cop that sort of high level of abuse,
• 12:02
  so everything's focused towards you, how do you react?
• 12:06
  Well, I think for me, I don't read it.
• 12:11
  And I'm always getting abused.
• 12:13
  So I think it's a sign of respect because you don't get abused
• 12:17
  if you're a nobody and you don't get abused
• 12:19
  if you're not saying something that people care about.
• 12:21
  So I think what I see mainly in a lot of the young players
• 12:26
  they really want to be, you know, make the team
• 12:29
  and then have a good following,
• 12:31
  but then it comes at a cost, you know?
• 12:34
  And so I think you've got to have a pretty thick skin.
• 12:37
  You can't take it personally.
• 12:38
  I don't take anything personally.
• 12:40
  You know, this is a game of rugby that I love.
• 12:42
  I love commenting.
• 12:43
  I love everything about the game.
• 12:46
  So, and people are passionate about it.
• 12:48
  I think what he's in the shooting line of,
• 12:52
  and I know I keep coming back to our leadership
• 12:54
  and our new chairman, but we need to start making some decisions publicly
• 12:58
  and we need some leadership, right?
• 13:00
  So the referee leaderships, they did not come out
• 13:04
  and defend the decision in the second test.
• 13:07
  And our game needs to understand what we're going to do about diving.
• 13:11
  Right?
• 13:12
  It's a professional sport now that people will try and milk for a penalty.
• 13:16
  So our leadership need to come out and say any sort of diving
• 13:20
  is going to be dealt with like this.
• 13:24
  So I would say every single South African that sees someone dive
• 13:27
  would absolutely hate it and hate the person that has dive.
• 13:31
  Now, I'm not saying Titsiana dive,
• 13:33
  but he made a gesture that looked like he was trying to milk a penalty.
• 13:38
  So he is the brunt of an opinion.
• 13:41
  Victor's going to have one.
• 13:42
  You're going to have one Ricardo, I've got one.
• 13:44
  So he's the brunt of something in our game that needs to be
• 13:48
  have a decision made on it.
• 13:50
  What are we going to do about people trying to milk penalties?
• 13:54
  That's the question.
• 13:55
  We need an answer from our leadership and then we move forward.
• 13:58
  Otherwise, we're going to get it all the time.
• 14:01
  Just be careful, Jacob.
• 14:02
  Don't have too short of memory.
• 14:04
  It was the fifth anniversary of a great man this last week, Andy Hayden.
• 14:09
  And he may have dived out of the line out and won a test match.
• 14:13
  So we'll just move on from that.
• 14:15
  That's important.
• 14:16
  I mean, and Rick may rest in pieces.
• 14:18
  A great mate of mine, Andy Hayden.
• 14:20
  And a great personality in the game.
• 14:22
  And I miss him dearly.
• 14:24
  And that was a controversy back in 72 or whatever it was, right?
• 14:28
  78.
• 14:29
  78 and Wales here.
• 14:32
  But Victor, it's something that our leadership need to talk about.
• 14:35
  We need to take control of this so it's either in our game or not.
• 14:38
  You know, soccer do it all the time.
• 14:40
  It really annoys me.
• 14:42
  Well, I mean, one incident with us was the great Brian Abana in 2015.
• 14:48
  We took a dive, got a lot of stick in the media and on social media.
• 14:55
  And he came out and said, you're sorry.
• 14:57
  That's not part of the game.
• 14:58
  That's not part of the ethos of rugby.
• 15:00
  And I mean, these days, especially with a head to head, if you see how many guys
• 15:06
  take the dive.
• 15:07
  It's a little knock and they go down and they roll and they sell on the ground.
• 15:11
  And once they get the penalty, they get up and they run around.
• 15:13
  So it's not just that it's happening every game.
• 15:17
  Guys trying to milk penalties with this head to head.
• 15:21
  So it is a problem.
• 15:23
  And I would love not to see it in our game.
• 15:27
  It's a problem.
• 15:28
  But if you're in that situation, and you're back when you're playing,
• 15:33
  and you milk a penalty and you win the test match because you won that penalty,
• 15:37
  is that something you'd be comfortable with?
• 15:40
  It's a difficult thing because I'm saying that now, but I mean,
• 15:44
  I've been in situations in the line-out where they took my feet from underneath me and fell.
• 15:49
  You could actually just come up, but you lied to three minutes longer to make sure they see it.
• 15:54
  So that's probably also diving there.
• 15:56
  So yeah, it's a difficult area of the game.
• 16:00
  If someone overstepped the line, you do want the referee to see it,
• 16:04
  but I mean, we don't want to become soccer where every break down,
• 16:08
  every tackle, there's someone trying to milk a penalty.
• 16:12
  Well, I think for me, I also remember when players stay down a little bit longer,
• 16:20
  and I always remember talking to some of our elders about it,
• 16:23
  and they were broke all about it, just players staying down.
• 16:27
  What you've got to realize is when a professional player now gets a knock or injury,
• 16:32
  it's quite a traumatic moment because you're thinking,
• 16:35
  is this is just a stinger or is this something that's going to keep me up for six or eight weeks?
• 16:40
  So it's pretty important.
• 16:42
  I think what I want to see, I don't agree with you, Victor,
• 16:45
  I think if you get your legs taken out and you hit the ground and it's a bit of a shock
• 16:49
  and you stay there for a little bit, I'm okay with that.
• 16:52
  It's the gesture.
• 16:54
  It's the, you know, it's the extra rolling.
• 16:57
  Don't roll.
• 16:58
  Yeah, I don't, you know, I don't think that we've got to trust the system.
• 17:04
  We complain about the TMO all the time, right?
• 17:07
  But it is a system that should be able to pick up those situations without the gesture.
• 17:14
  So I think any gesture of faking or acting is should be taken out of our game.
• 17:22
  If you stay down because you've got a big hit and you're feeling a bit like tender,
• 17:28
  then that's fine.
• 17:29
  But I just don't want to see the sort of rolling, the sort of trying to measure it.
• 17:34
  And if, you know, like Victor said, if someone's going to roll on the ground and fake injury,
• 17:40
  then maybe we should put them off for a couple of minutes.
• 17:43
  We need to deter.
• 17:44
  That's why I like that.
• 17:45
  And I keep harping on and I keep harping on about it until it becomes lower.
• 17:51
  You know, three penalties in a row.
• 17:53
  I think if you, if someone gets taken off for a head knock, then,
• 17:57
  or there's a head knock and someone's down for a little bit,
• 17:59
  take them off for a few minutes and have a compulsory assessment,
• 18:02
  put someone else on as quick as you can, you know, speed out gamer.
• 18:06
  And then they missed a really obvious one, which obviously got cited afterwards,
• 18:10
  you know, which we all could see in the replay.
• 18:12
  But I mean, you talked about the Lions.
• 18:14
  They look so good early in this tour and the first half of the test match.
• 18:18
  And then nothing much really happens since then.
• 18:21
  Were they overrated?
• 18:22
  Is this a good Lions team?
• 18:25
  They won a series, mate.
• 18:27
  That was their goal.
• 18:28
  They had a hundred percent winning record.
• 18:31
  I think the police, I think the police won a hundred percent winning record.
• 18:35
  They lost the last game.
• 18:36
  Yeah, up until the last game.
• 18:38
  Right?
• 18:39
  So they won a series, mate.
• 18:41
  They won a series, right?
• 18:42
  But they went out to get three nil.
• 18:43
  They made it really public, but they wanted a three zip series.
• 18:46
  And they didn't get that.
• 18:47
  Ricardo, if you're going to ask a question, let me answer it.
• 18:50
  Like, I don't want your opinion.
• 18:51
  We didn't ask my last question, so I thought I'd give another crack at this one.
• 18:54
  Yeah, I can have, I can have, I can answer your question by saying that I think they're a really good side.
• 19:00
  I think they did not improve.
• 19:03
  I think they won the series and that cost them.
• 19:06
  That cost them a performance in the last test.
• 19:08
  Australia got better.
• 19:10
  So are they a good side?
• 19:12
  Yeah, I think they're a really good side.
• 19:14
  What I'm pleased about is that Australia stood up, because I was worried about the difference.
• 19:19
  Now, I'll get back to what I said earlier in one of the shows.
• 19:22
  Is Super Rugby now not preparing us for test match rugby?
• 19:26
  Look at the all blacks performance first test against France.
• 19:29
  Look at Australia's first test match against against the Lions.
• 19:34
  So as now the gap between Super Rugby because, you know, Victor and his mates deserted us
• 19:40
  for the Northern Hemisphere and the money, right?
• 19:43
  Is now Super Rugby a long way from test match rugby and we need a bit of time to get used to it.
• 19:49
  So answer your question, Ricardo.
• 19:51
  The Lions were a good side, they won a series and they will always be known for that.
• 19:58
  Yeah, I mean, the first goes to win this series and then the third one is to win all three test matches.
• 20:04
  But I think to win it in two matches, you already showed the quality that you've got as a team.
• 20:13
  But I just think Ferrell probably should have changed a bit more.
• 20:19
  I think this, and that's the one thing of this Lions side.
• 20:22
  It's the depth they had in the squad.
• 20:25
  If you think about some of the boys that didn't get opportunities,
• 20:30
  the guys, if you could have brought in in that last test match.
• 20:36
  So, yeah, I think if you change it up a little bit, I mean, three test matches in a row.
• 20:42
  It's also pretty tough on the body away from home, probably missing families after six, seven weeks on tour.
• 20:49
  So I think if you made one or two changes, you didn't have to make 15,
• 20:54
  but if you brought five, six guys into that squad, you could have made a big difference.
• 20:58
  You were there, Ricardo. I mean, what about half time?
• 21:03
  I know there's been some discussion about the half time, how they handled the, what is it, 50 minutes or something?
• 21:10
  Yeah, so it's been pretty wet here in Sydney all week and then that lightning came.
• 21:16
  It was interesting watching the two teams, there's been a lot of debate about the two teams handling that same period of time.
• 21:22
  There was shots of Fin Russell on his phone and a couple of lines players asleep on bean bags.
• 21:28
  I mean, I don't know if you've ever been through anything like that,
• 21:31
  but how did you think the two teams handled that break?
• 21:34
  Again, it's just, when you get a break like that, sometimes good to just get away from the game completely
• 21:43
  and then let's say with 10, 15 minutes, let's get the focus back.
• 21:47
  But for me, players, when it phones going out, that is just too far away.
• 21:53
  You still want to be in the moment, you don't want to be completely away talking to people and so on.
• 22:01
  Look, for me, Ricardo, I think it's an unprepareable situation and moment in time,
• 22:09
  and that you, I doubt if they would have prepared for it.
• 22:12
  Just other things, coaches prepare for, you know, injuries, red cards, yellow cards.
• 22:18
  And I don't think there would have been any protocols around our 40-minute break for lightning.
• 22:23
  So, you know, and the modern player, the phone is part of the way they play,
• 22:29
  the part of the way they communicate.
• 22:31
  I mean, Fin Russell might have been looking at the game plan on his phone.
• 22:34
  You know, often when you see these modern players, they take their phones into meetings
• 22:38
  and they're writing the game plan down straight onto their phones.
• 22:41
  So, you know, he might have been texting his loved ones.
• 22:46
  You know, he might have been doing whatever he needs to do to play.
• 22:52
  And like, we got player of the series, so it obviously didn't affect him too much.
• 22:56
  So, I don't think, I think it's a one-off, don't even worry about it.
• 23:00
  People dealt with it, how they dealt with it.
• 23:02
  They'll go away knowing whether they played well in the second half or not.
• 23:06
  I just didn't think that played well right across the whole 80 minutes.
• 23:10
  I thought Aussie were at an emotional and a technical step above them,
• 23:14
  which really surprised me considering whether...
• 23:16
  Actually, we just had a comment come through on the YouTube channel.
• 23:19
  So, we do read your comments, keep them coming in, they're really important to us.
• 23:23
  From Johan Blignort B4C, can Sir John please take the Springbok Jewsies out from behind his back
• 23:31
  and put them on the upper right side where the red Jewsies are.
• 23:34
  So, if you can do that for next week.
• 23:36
  And then there was a comment here about talking about Will Skelton.
• 23:40
  And how...
• 23:43
  Like the Span's, John?
• 23:45
  You can have a Span.
• 23:47
  Look at those Span's.
• 23:49
  He's got a...
• 23:50
  The lava lava.
• 23:51
  Yeah, very pretty.
• 23:54
  Thank you.
• 23:55
  There you go.
• 23:56
  Thank you.
• 23:57
  Oh, that's better.
• 23:58
  Look at that.
• 24:00
  You talked about Will Skelton and his ability to handle, you know, 40-50 minutes.
• 24:05
  Obviously, the break was good for him because he lasted a lot more of the game.
• 24:10
  And someone made the comment, John, Ferreira, 8-2-9.
• 24:14
  When you are tied and have to come off the field, Muhammad Ali said,
• 24:18
  after the barriers of pain, I discovered the real me.
• 24:22
  So, bit of inspiration from Muhammad Ali.
• 24:26
  Yeah, but that's the fact of rugby.
• 24:29
  A lot of the time in a game, both teams are at break point.
• 24:34
  And that's where the top players come through.
• 24:37
  They can just keep going.
• 24:38
  They can push themselves.
• 24:40
  They actually love going to that pain.
• 24:42
  That's what any sports about.
• 24:44
  You want to go to that pain where that intensity is so I,
• 24:47
  where you think, am I getting through it?
• 24:49
  What must I do next to get the upper hand, to get the momentum?
• 24:53
  And that's what rugby is about.
• 24:55
  Or any sport, actually.
• 24:56
  You can go to that place.
• 24:58
  Keep going and you can see the other guy is taking a step back.
• 25:02
  We can't keep up.
• 25:03
  That's when you actually get more energy and just want to go more.
• 25:06
  I think it's a bit more complicated.
• 25:10
  A GPS can't measure your courage or your ability to go to the well.
• 25:16
  And also, players sometimes can't recognize fatigue in themselves.
• 25:22
  So they don't want to go off.
• 25:24
  They're happy medium.
• 25:26
  You know, for me, taking well off in the second test was a mistake.
• 25:31
  Because I just think you need to leave them out there until he says I've had enough.
• 25:35
  And you need to be able to trust players like that.
• 25:37
  So you can't GPS does not measure your ability to go to the well.
• 25:43
  And I think that's where we've got to, you know, we've got to find.
• 25:48
  The coach has to find that medium.
• 25:50
  I'm pretty sure Joe, who's an in-stute man, very, very astute man.
• 25:54
  As you can see, by the way, Australia are improving.
• 25:57
  You know, he would have gone away after the second test and analyzed what he did.
• 26:02
  And I'm pretty sure he would have thought I would need to leave Willon until he can't walk.
• 26:08
  Because he's such an influential part of the game.
• 26:12
  Or you slow the game down. You do what South Africa do.
• 26:14
  You drop a drop down when they're tired.
• 26:16
  And then you drop them down another five minutes.
• 26:18
  And then you drop another prop in the next five minutes when they're tired.
• 26:21
  So that the big boys can recover.
• 26:23
  Well, while the big boys are down, do you worry a little bit the New Zealand players?
• 26:29
  Did they like, oh, damn, these guys are coming back now?
• 26:32
  No, no. It's about speeding the game up.
• 26:34
  It's about everyone playing.
• 26:36
  Like, you got to speed the game up.
• 26:39
  You shouldn't have that.
• 26:40
  You don't have to play like New Zealand.
• 26:42
  Victor, that's a professional foul.
• 26:44
  Now that's the rules of the game.
• 26:45
  If the props not engineer goes down, that's just like you spoke about before.
• 26:48
  That's like a fake.
• 26:50
  For me, that's like a fake.
• 26:51
  For me, that's like, have you been in the front row?
• 26:53
  Do you know that pressure over two minutes crumb?
• 26:56
  You need some time.
• 26:58
  If you don't like it, don't play there.
• 27:00
  If you can't handle it, don't like it.
• 27:01
  Don't play there.
• 27:02
  I mean, I would never want to go up the front row.
• 27:04
  But faking an injury.
• 27:05
  You just get ready to go again.
• 27:07
  You just get ready to go again.
• 27:10
  The professional foul.
• 27:13
  It's the same as you spoke about before.
• 27:15
  It's the same as that.
• 27:17
  You know, the interesting thing is that, you know, when you replied,
• 27:20
  there's no way that you were getting the scrum.
• 27:22
  But now you're a bit older, actually.
• 27:23
  I think you'd fit in the scrum quite well, Jay, okay?
• 27:25
  Particularly the front row.
• 27:27
  Yeah.
• 27:28
  I would have to see him once again in the hooker position.
• 27:31
  Oh, Victor.
• 27:32
  I took part in my first tour.
• 27:34
  My first tour of the All Blacks, because, you know, I was a young man.
• 27:38
  I was 19.
• 27:39
  And when we went away in those days, you know,
• 27:41
  we didn't have a lot of players.
• 27:43
  And one of the scrum, live scrum sessions,
• 27:47
  I had to go into number six.
• 27:50
  As the worst day of my life, I got my feet trampled on.
• 27:54
  I had bloody sore feet.
• 27:56
  Like the scrum came back on trampled on me.
• 27:59
  I got bloody sore shoulders, sore left ear.
• 28:02
  Why would you play there, mate?
• 28:04
  No, one of my favorite training sessions ever was we played.
• 28:09
  Before 2007, we seemed like a beat team over to play trinations.
• 28:15
  And we were 17 guys that stayed behind to prepare for World Cup.
• 28:20
  So we only had so many backs and so many forwards.
• 28:23
  So in the one session, we had to go the forwards,
• 28:26
  had to go the Finst started place against the backs.
• 28:29
  Of course, they couldn't score once.
• 28:31
  And then they had to defend more.
• 28:34
  And after that, I've never heard guys,
• 28:37
  rugby players crying and squealing like that in my life before.
• 28:42
  How tough it is, how do you put your head in here?
• 28:45
  You can't do this.
• 28:47
  This is not real rugby.
• 28:49
  All some session that.
• 28:51
  Let's talk about the other big news of this week.
• 28:54
  Well, I wonder when a Louis resammer has come back from,
• 28:57
  you know, he had a crack at the NFL.
• 28:59
  Didn't quite pay off from him.
• 29:01
  And showed a lot of courage to have a crack at it.
• 29:04
  Yeah, mate, well done.
• 29:06
  Well done, Louis.
• 29:07
  Good to have you back into the game, son.
• 29:09
  Welcome back.
• 29:10
  You don't want water in your life.
• 29:11
  I mean, I've been through a little bit of that when I went to the Warriors
• 29:15
  at the end of my career.
• 29:17
  You know, and I think he's young enough to get straight back into rugby.
• 29:22
  He gave it a crack.
• 29:23
  He loved the game.
• 29:24
  He's been watching it all his life.
• 29:26
  Incredibly difficult game, I reckon, to do if you haven't grown up with it.
• 29:31
  From a playing point of view.
• 29:32
  But well done.
• 29:33
  He's had a shot.
• 29:34
  Welcome back.
• 29:35
  Wiles need him.
• 29:36
  I think it'll be great to have him back.
• 29:38
  We know American football is all about stats.
• 29:41
  I'll quick you are.
• 29:42
  I'll expose if you are.
• 29:44
  I mean, he's all of that.
• 29:45
  So that's why they probably sign him.
• 29:48
  He'll be good to be back in rugby.
• 29:51
  And I think like, Jake is saying,
• 29:54
  he'll just jump straight back into it.
• 29:56
  But for me, more important,
• 29:58
  why are we not talking women's track with each other this week?
• 30:02
  Wasn't that one of the biggest games this weekend?
• 30:05
  You think it was, but it's because
• 30:07
  the South American woman beat the Black Furns second team.
• 30:11
  It's a Black Furns.
• 30:12
  This is the spring box.
• 30:13
  Come on.
• 30:14
  It's the Black Furns 15.
• 30:16
  Same thing.
• 30:18
  Same thing.
• 30:19
  It says it wanted to mention it.
• 30:22
  I mean, I need you to give credit to Tracer Brain.
• 30:25
  I mean, two years ago,
• 30:27
  we probably couldn't be on the same field as the All Blacks.
• 30:30
  And the work that they've been putting into those goals
• 30:34
  is just unbelievable.
• 30:35
  I mean, we've got one professional team,
• 30:37
  only the Blue Bulls in South Africa.
• 30:39
  And I mean, the change around just to be able to compete
• 30:42
  with their guys,
• 30:43
  I need to give credit to Tracer Brain.
• 30:45
  Yeah.
• 30:46
  And we've got, we'll be talking about the Women's World Cup
• 30:48
  and shows coming up.
• 30:49
  I think it's important,
• 30:51
  it's an important thing that Victor has mentioned, though,
• 30:53
  that the improvement in the female game,
• 30:55
  when you invest in it, is incredible.
• 30:57
  And I think it's an investment,
• 31:00
  and the game is growing.
• 31:02
  So I think you've got to take your hat off
• 31:04
  to the rugby unions that are investing in it,
• 31:07
  because we see an incredible improvement very quickly.
• 31:10
  And I think this is going to be pretty exciting World Cup.
• 31:15
  Who's going to win the World Cup?
• 31:17
  I think England are going to be pretty hard to beat.
• 31:19
  They've got to be in their bonnet from the last one.
• 31:22
  They're consistent.
• 31:23
  They've got the most professional rugby players,
• 31:26
  women, you know, female rugby players.
• 31:28
  They're very well disciplined side.
• 31:30
  Obviously, I want the Black Ferns to win.
• 31:32
  I was really sad to see my mate Ruby Tui miss out.
• 31:36
  But that means that the competition's pretty strong in New Zealand.
• 31:39
  But England is going to be hard to beat, I think.
• 31:41
  Yeah.
• 31:42
  And I tell you what Canada is a very strong side as well.
• 31:45
  Canada did really well over in South Africa.
• 31:48
  It gave us two big hiding.
• 31:51
  So we'll probably...
• 31:53
  But I still think we'll be between England and Black Ferns.
• 31:58
  But aren't you a Nick Paul X-Burt?
• 32:00
  Victor?
• 32:01
  That's where I was the whole weekend.
• 32:04
  My middle daughter played in the ESA Champions finals this weekend.
• 32:09
  And of course they won the tournament.
• 32:12
  They're ESA Champions.
• 32:13
  They're a very proud of my daughter.
• 32:15
  I'm a big bit more fan.
• 32:18
  I'll probably watch more Nick Paul these days than rugby.
• 32:21
  So three daughters playing it.
• 32:23
  Great sport.
• 32:24
  We used to have a coach at Marist.
• 32:28
  One of the greatest coaches ever.
• 32:30
  His name was Eric Colassie.
• 32:32
  And he used to make us...
• 32:36
  We had a woman's Nick Paul team.
• 32:38
  And he used to make us warm up some nights against the Nick Paul side.
• 32:41
  An absolutely great game to play.
• 32:43
  Like so much fun, hard, great skill set.
• 32:47
  He used to love it.
• 32:48
  And the girls used to smack us around.
• 32:50
  They'd just like nail us.
• 32:51
  It was such a great sport.
• 32:52
  Such, such good fun to play.
• 32:54
  See the speed of the game there.
• 32:56
  See there you need to speed it up.
• 32:58
  So rugby don't always have to.
• 33:00
  So there's no one in Nick Paul that goes down engine to slow the game up.
• 33:03
  Victor?
• 33:04
  They get taken off, yeah.
• 33:07
  I'm really concerned that last week you were both agreeing with each other on this week.
• 33:12
  You've shown more enthusiasm and excitement for Nick Paul than you do for rugby.
• 33:15
  So I think that's a good time to bring the show to an end.
• 33:18
  We'll catch you next week on Rivals.