Latest / A New Angle / Empowering Montana with Heidi Wallace and Rajiem Seabrook

Transcript

Empowering Montana with Heidi Wallace and Rajiem Seabrook · A New Angle

0:09
SPEAKER_01: This is A New Angle, a show about cool people doing awesome things in and around Montana.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Justin Angle.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: This show is supported by First Security Bank,
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Blackfoot Communications,
0:22
SPEAKER_01: and the University of Montana College of Business.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Hey folks, welcome back and thanks for tuning in.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Today,
0:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm speaking with Heidi Wallace and Rajim Seabrook of Empower Montana,
0:34
SPEAKER_01: an organization dedicated to creating a more just and inclusive world through
0:38
SPEAKER_01: leadership development and education.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: We meet people where they're at and without judgment,
0:44
SPEAKER_02: but instead trying to find those areas where we can build connection.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: And with how divisive our state is right now, politically, socially,
0:59
SPEAKER_02: it's essential that we create opportunities to foster that understanding.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Heidi serves as Executive Director and Rajim is Director of Equity and Impact.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Heidi, Rajim, thanks for joining me.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: So tell us, where did you grow up and what did your parents do?
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Heidi, let's start with you.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, I was born in Wolf Point, Montana, which is where all my mom's family is from.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: Spent my summers there with my grandpa on his farm and with my great grandma in town.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Went to junior high and high school in Helena.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: That's where my parents and brothers are now.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: But in between that, it was Belgrade, Lincoln, Great Falls, but yeah, rooted in Montana.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: My dad grew up in Helena.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: He is a carpet layer, hardwood floor layer.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: They're kind of in retirement now.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: My mom worked in social work, ran the senior companion program.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: And Helena, she's a Jin Shin Jitsu practitioner now.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: And they're trying to slow down and be grandparents and love life.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Super.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Rajim, how about you?
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Originally from New York City.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Spent half my life here in Montana.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Both my father and my stepfather were recording engineers.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: My stepdad, more notably, has been nominated several times and has won.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: And then my mother is a special advisor to the Chancellor of the Board of Education in New York.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: And then she also runs the Louis Vuitton store in New York just for, you know, bells and whistles.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: What were you talking about when you were counting these nominations for which your
2:55
SPEAKER_01: father was involved in?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: He digitally remastered the entire Yasha Heifetz collection.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: That's what he won a Grammy for.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: And then his other was his work that he did on the Broadway score and musical for
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Bring in the Noise,
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Bring in the Funk.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he's done a bunch of other things.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Very bedazzled master engineer in the world of music and recording.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Very well respected person.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Gosh,
3:19
SPEAKER_01: well,
3:20
SPEAKER_01: we could do a series of podcasts on the bio of the both of you,
3:24
SPEAKER_01: but I'd love to just jump right in to Empower Montana and the great work that you
3:28
SPEAKER_01: and your colleagues do.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Heidi, what is Empower Montana?
3:32
SPEAKER_01: How did it come to be?
3:33
SPEAKER_02: Empower Montana, we're a nonprofit.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: We serve Montana and beyond.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: We're celebrating 25 years as a nonprofit serving our mission,
3:44
SPEAKER_02: which is to create a just and inclusive society.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Not a small mission.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: How we go about that is really by empowering individual and institutional
3:57
SPEAKER_02: leadership to correct systemic inequities,
4:00
SPEAKER_02: to...
4:02
SPEAKER_02: Strengthen communities to end mistreatment.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: And we have three areas of work,
4:08
SPEAKER_02: youth and schools,
4:10
SPEAKER_02: businesses and organizations,
4:12
SPEAKER_02: and then a community bucket.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: And Rajim, just to talk about how you plug into the organization.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: I do much of everything that Heidi says.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: I always like to say I'm the Robin to the Batgirl or the kickstand on this one's Harley.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: I do more of the community adult side of things.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very, very right now steeped into the political aspect of our community.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: I was appointed by...
4:40
SPEAKER_00: many people to be one of the tri leaders for the jedi task force which is now the
4:45
SPEAKER_00: official jedi advisory board and what that it all entails is having the county
4:51
SPEAKER_00: officials city officials and the mayor uh the office of the mayor be involved with
4:55
SPEAKER_00: community members who sit on this advisory board
4:58
SPEAKER_00: to give light and voice and amplification of the needs of our citizens who are more marginalized.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: And that could be whatever your determining factors are and how you identify.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: A lot of our identities here in our community are marginalized and laws and
5:17
SPEAKER_00: procedures and things are passed.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: without thinking how is this gonna impact.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: So this advisory board will speak to those people who normally don't have the voice
5:26
SPEAKER_00: or sometimes don't have the privilege of being able to take time off of work to
5:31
SPEAKER_00: give voice to those things.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: So having this advisory board speak for the people before certain things are passed,
5:36
SPEAKER_00: because sometimes when things are passed,
5:38
SPEAKER_00: the ramifications
5:40
SPEAKER_00: are less than positive.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Being able to give strength back to the people before all these broad sweepings
5:47
SPEAKER_00: take place and come into fruition.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned the term JEDI there.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: That might be a term.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: People, listeners are probably familiar with DEI, but how does JEDI take it one step further?
5:56
SPEAKER_01: What does that stand for?
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, I wanted to avoid that association.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: No, no, not at all.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: It's an acronym for justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: So you add the justice piece and Heidi,
6:10
SPEAKER_01: let's segue to you because you said the mission of the organization is to create a
6:15
SPEAKER_01: more just society,
6:17
SPEAKER_01: an inclusive society.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: So how do you define those terms?
6:21
SPEAKER_01: What is justice and what is inclusivity in the view of you and your organization?
6:26
SPEAKER_02: rooted in all of our work is the value of belonging and ensuring that every person
6:35
SPEAKER_02: feels valued,
6:37
SPEAKER_02: feels that their voice matters,
6:41
SPEAKER_02: and that they have a pathway to use that to contribute to their success in life,
6:51
SPEAKER_02: success in school,
6:52
SPEAKER_02: academically,
6:53
SPEAKER_02: socially,
6:53
SPEAKER_02: emotionally,
6:55
SPEAKER_02: economically.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: And so that's really the root of our work is fostering belonging and really
7:04
SPEAKER_02: amplifying that individual leadership,
7:06
SPEAKER_02: whatever that looks like.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: What does belonging look and feel like for a kid?
7:10
SPEAKER_01: You do a lot of youth programs.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: How do you,
7:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
7:13
SPEAKER_01: when you enter into an engagement with a youth-oriented organization,
7:17
SPEAKER_01: school,
7:18
SPEAKER_01: club,
7:18
SPEAKER_01: whatever,
7:19
SPEAKER_01: how do you even help them understand what belonging means?
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Well,
7:25
SPEAKER_02: I think that happens with the first interaction,
7:30
SPEAKER_02: whether it's a young person or adult,
7:33
SPEAKER_02: if they feel seen and noticed and engaged and that their unique identities and life
7:42
SPEAKER_02: experiences are respected.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: You know,
7:46
SPEAKER_02: we have affinity groups for LGBTQ youth,
7:51
SPEAKER_02: for middle schoolers and another group for high schoolers.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: And we also have an affinity group for black, indigenous and youth of color.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: Rajim's one of the mentors for that.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: And, yeah.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: To witness seeing young people where they see themselves in others,
8:12
SPEAKER_02: where they can see adults and mentors who have similar experiences,
8:19
SPEAKER_02: where they don't have to put up walls,
8:21
SPEAKER_02: where they can just fully be themselves.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, that to me is belonging.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: And how does that work in the adult space?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Exactly the same.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: I think that the older we get, sometimes the less we're heard from because we don't have time.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: We've got to pick the kids up from soccer.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: We got to get to karate.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: We got to get to ballet.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: We got to get to Albertsons and the good food store.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you just, you don't have that opportunity.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: You know it exists, but it doesn't always materialize.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: And,
8:54
SPEAKER_00: you know,
8:54
SPEAKER_00: having things like the advisory board or organizations like Empower Montana helps
8:58
SPEAKER_00: give voice to those people.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, it helps give...
9:02
SPEAKER_00: a chance to be heard and to speak to the things that either create a great success
9:07
SPEAKER_00: or present a great challenge.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: And we do that in ways that really incorporate looking inward first before looking outward.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Because I can tell you all the things I know about Justin Angle,
9:20
SPEAKER_00: but can I apply them to Regime Seabrook,
9:22
SPEAKER_00: right?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: As Heidi would say,
9:24
SPEAKER_00: we're all PhDs and have expertise in judging,
9:28
SPEAKER_00: but we don't have expertise in understanding.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when you create that understanding, that promotes the now I belong.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Now that I belong, I have a purpose.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Now that I have a purpose...
9:38
SPEAKER_00: My well-being is now increased and so on and so forth.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: It literally popcorns onto something that creates more positive and productive
9:47
SPEAKER_00: results for an individual,
9:49
SPEAKER_00: a community,
9:49
SPEAKER_00: a city,
9:50
SPEAKER_00: a nation,
9:51
SPEAKER_00: a planet.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I admire about your organization is you've been in it for so long.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: This isn't sort of a recent post-George Floyd, you know, vocabulary-laden effort.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: You all have been doing this important work for a long time.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: A question in that vein is in the sort of work to help all people feel like they can belong,
10:16
SPEAKER_01: How do you do it in ways that don't make the people that have just always felt a
10:22
SPEAKER_01: sense of belonging feel like they're doing something wrong?
10:25
SPEAKER_02: We started as a grassroots group here on campus in 1998.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: A few people were like,
10:33
SPEAKER_02: wait a minute,
10:35
SPEAKER_02: there's no organization doing work around anti-racism,
10:41
SPEAKER_02: anti-homophobia.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: And
10:45
SPEAKER_02: I think why we've lasted 25 years is because we meet people where they're at with
10:53
SPEAKER_02: curiosity and compassion.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: And someone's experience in Northeast Montana
11:03
SPEAKER_02: is going to be really different from,
11:04
SPEAKER_02: you know,
11:06
SPEAKER_02: a student here at the university who's from the East Coast.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: And really,
11:10
SPEAKER_02: you know,
11:11
SPEAKER_02: when Rajim mentioned,
11:12
SPEAKER_02: we invite people to first look at themselves,
11:15
SPEAKER_02: you know,
11:16
SPEAKER_02: what are your experiences and identities that have shaped your worldview,
11:23
SPEAKER_02: which also includes your comfort zone.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: with situations, topics, people, and your confidence working and connecting to those people.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: And we say this a lot is people don't know what they don't know.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: And so everything our organization does is without shame or blame.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: It's maybe you have never had the opportunity to learn about this topic or connect to this human being.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: How can we build those bridges?
11:57
SPEAKER_02: You know,
11:57
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the most beautiful thing about our work is that we meet people where
12:03
SPEAKER_02: they're at and without judgment,
12:05
SPEAKER_02: but instead trying to find those areas where we can build connection.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: And with how divisive our state is right now, politically, socially, economically,
12:20
SPEAKER_02: it's essential that we create opportunities to foster that understanding instead of pushing people away.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: We need people to come together and find where do we have the common values?
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Where can we all agree?
12:39
SPEAKER_02: Can we agree that all young people in Montana should thrive and succeed in life?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: I think we can agree on that.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Like there's,
12:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
12:47
SPEAKER_02: there's those Montana values,
12:49
SPEAKER_02: those universal truths that I think we can all get to and then go from there.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: And so can you walk us through some, like what this work looks like on the ground?
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Like you enter an organization,
13:03
SPEAKER_01: maybe you're willing to share of a specific experience,
13:05
SPEAKER_01: but like,
13:07
SPEAKER_01: how do you start?
13:07
SPEAKER_01: How do you get people to the table?
13:09
SPEAKER_01: How do you get them to engage?
13:11
SPEAKER_01: How do you create these dynamics that you're talking about?
13:14
SPEAKER_01: What does it actually look like when it's happening?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Our whole opening outside of introductions is before we get into this work, you have to look at you.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: You have to look at where you're from,
13:25
SPEAKER_00: who your grandfather was,
13:28
SPEAKER_00: the school that you went to,
13:29
SPEAKER_00: the place that you lived in between high school and getting married and
13:34
SPEAKER_00: understanding that all those shades,
13:36
SPEAKER_00: all those experiences shape how you think,
13:39
SPEAKER_00: shape how you feel.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And looking at that and giving yourself that actual sit down time to look at those things
13:46
SPEAKER_00: without always looking outward, sometimes is a challenge for people.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: it's hard to think about how did the information from my family shape and mold me in this world?
13:57
SPEAKER_00: How did that same information misinform me about this world?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: How did that create my biases?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: How did that create my dislikes?
14:05
SPEAKER_00: How did that create my interest?
14:07
SPEAKER_00: And when we put all of that together,
14:10
SPEAKER_00: all of a sudden you can kind of see that light bulb moment in people's eyes,
14:14
SPEAKER_00: like their third eye just goes blink like,
14:17
SPEAKER_00: oh.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: I think that way or I feel that way because I was told,
14:22
SPEAKER_00: because I was informed,
14:23
SPEAKER_00: because CNN said this,
14:24
SPEAKER_00: because MSNBC said that,
14:26
SPEAKER_00: because my pastor or my rabbi or my shaman said this.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, wait a second.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: What about what I where's my authentic engagement?
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Where's my one on one with the world?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And then that that when that happens, like this transformative process takes place.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: I think this way because of my age.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: I think this way because of my height.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: I think this way because of my race or my political affiliation.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: And that changes how you then see the world because it's like,
14:51
SPEAKER_00: okay,
14:52
SPEAKER_00: I need to stop and think about those things.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that makes people then less certain?
14:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I could assume that process of interrogating all those sort of preexisting
15:03
SPEAKER_01: conditions could sort of quake your identity in a way.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: but it sounds like the sensibility you try to cultivate as well as a sense of curiosity too.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Like this,
15:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious about myself,
15:17
SPEAKER_01: but now I can,
15:18
SPEAKER_01: because I understand myself better,
15:20
SPEAKER_01: I can be curious about how others have come to be as well.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
15:25
SPEAKER_00: I think when you are able to look at yourself honestly and somewhat stringently,
15:31
SPEAKER_00: it kind of changes how you look at other people because it's like,
15:34
SPEAKER_00: wait a second,
15:34
SPEAKER_00: if I have all these narratives,
15:37
SPEAKER_00: so does Mr.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Angle,
15:38
SPEAKER_00: so does Ms.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Wallace.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So does, you know, so does Seth Bodnar.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Like it changes like, okay, before I presume I know you, why don't you tell me about you?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Now that I know about you from your perspective, oh my gosh, my outlook on you is different.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: My outlook on where maybe you and where you are from is different.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Maybe my outlook on who you are, where you're from, and people who look like you are now different.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Can you please tell me more?
16:06
SPEAKER_00: As opposed to I already know about you because Fox News and C-SPAN told me this.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Or my great-great-grandfather wrote this down in his journal.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: You kind of feel unbalanced.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's, I want you to feel that because you're feeling uncomfortable for a reason.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Like the truth that you knew versus the truth that you're now knowing sometimes
16:25
SPEAKER_00: bump up against each other and create a little friction,
16:27
SPEAKER_00: but that's healthy.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: That's healthy.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like sadness.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like anger.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: It's like pain.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: It's telling you something needs to change.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: We'll be back to my conversation with Heidi Wallace and Regime Seabrook after this short break.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: A New Angle is proudly presented by First Security Bank,
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Blackfoot Communications,
16:47
SPEAKER_01: and the University of Montana College of Business.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: This show does not happen without these pillars of our community,
16:53
SPEAKER_01: and I'm so grateful for their support and encouragement.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: And speaking of support, have you checked out our new website yet, anewanglepodcast.com?
17:01
SPEAKER_01: There you can support our show directly with a variety of subscription options.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Subscribers get access to bonus episodes, additional segments, writings, and other benefits.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: So check it out at anewanglepodcast.com.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: This is Joe Anderson.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: I am the CEO of Reflex Protect, and you're listening to A New Angle.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to New Angle.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm speaking with Heidi Wallace and Regime Seabrook of Empower Montana.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: There seems to be a bit of essentialization of immutable characteristics,
17:33
SPEAKER_01: because you are white or because you are black or because you're from this part of
17:37
SPEAKER_01: the world,
17:37
SPEAKER_01: like then you must X,
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Y,
17:39
SPEAKER_01: or Z.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: And there's this sort of tendency to,
17:43
SPEAKER_01: make those aspects of identity forward as pre-existing sort of aspects of a person
17:50
SPEAKER_01: before engagement actually takes place.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense, the way I'm framing it?
17:54
SPEAKER_01: And what it sounds to me is that your framing is much more individualized.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: Like the constellation of factors is unique for each person and how those
18:04
SPEAKER_01: experiences and characteristics manifest is different for each person.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
18:09
SPEAKER_02: Rajim says that often in our sessions is,
18:14
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:14
SPEAKER_02: when you have time to reflect on your own cultural lenses,
18:18
SPEAKER_02: it opens you up to consider other people's.
18:22
SPEAKER_02: And what happens then is it lowers.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: It lowers your assumptions and it creates more truth-based reality, right?
18:30
SPEAKER_00: If I walk into a room and a room full of, I'll just say Peruvian people, right?
18:35
SPEAKER_00: And I base everything I know about Peruvian people off of my assumptions.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: And then I start interacting.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: I start eating the food.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: I start listening to the music.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: That's a bump up because now my reality is shifted.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: This isn't what I thought it was.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: This isn't what my uncle told me.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: This isn't what I read in Jet Magazine.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: whoa, I need to look at this differently.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm still alive and I'm still safe and I'm still dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: So when you have the,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I would say,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: when you are ready to sit down and have those types of conversations and you lower
19:09
SPEAKER_00: those assumptions and the realities creep in,
19:11
SPEAKER_00: it's a different person.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: It's a different interaction.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to put you on the spot with regard to a client or somebody you
19:18
SPEAKER_01: worked with,
19:18
SPEAKER_01: but maybe are you willing to share a personal story of how this process unfolded in you?
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Like at some point your background had an experience that shined a light on all the
19:28
SPEAKER_01: different aspects you're talking about?
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I'm learning every day.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: I've been with the organization 17 years.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: I think some aha moments for me came, you know, I said I spent my summers in Wolf Point.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: It's on the Fort Peck Reservation.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: I was exposed early on to...
19:50
SPEAKER_02: witnessing racism, even though I didn't have language for it.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: But I saw the othering.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: I saw the stereotyping, the prejudices.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I say that planted the seed in me to sort of want to learn more about what that was.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: But really not until I was here at U of M,
20:13
SPEAKER_02: you know,
20:14
SPEAKER_02: studying social work and taking Native American Studies classes,
20:18
SPEAKER_02: did that shift happen for me where I started to think about
20:24
SPEAKER_02: oh, okay, what's my role in this?
20:27
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what is oppression?
20:30
SPEAKER_02: And how does that play out systemically within communities, schools, businesses, organizations?
20:38
SPEAKER_02: And,
20:38
SPEAKER_02: you know,
20:40
SPEAKER_02: doing some of my own personal learning then of like,
20:44
SPEAKER_02: wow,
20:44
SPEAKER_02: I have all this pride of being a Montanan and,
20:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Wolf Point and land and place and everything.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: wow, what is my responsibility with this settler legacy?
20:57
SPEAKER_02: And what is allyship?
20:59
SPEAKER_02: And what do I need to do and learn first so that I can create change and create
21:06
SPEAKER_02: opportunity for people to learn and connect?
21:10
SPEAKER_02: That's what I love about this work is that we create opportunities for people to learn
21:19
SPEAKER_02: build connections across group lines to deepen understanding about what oppression is,
21:26
SPEAKER_02: why does it happen,
21:27
SPEAKER_02: how do we perpetuate it even unknowingly,
21:30
SPEAKER_02: and then
21:32
SPEAKER_02: you know,
21:32
SPEAKER_02: amplifying the fact that we all have these skills to be oppression interrupters
21:38
SPEAKER_02: just in our daily interactions with people.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: That was my aha moments.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, it's just kind of snowballed from there, but being able to balance
21:52
SPEAKER_02: my privileges with maybe some of my oppressed identities,
21:56
SPEAKER_02: and then using that to just absorb and learn what is it for other people who are
22:04
SPEAKER_02: different than me.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Regine, was there an aha moment for you that you can recall?
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Being a man of color, you have aha moments all the time because you're constantly...
22:15
SPEAKER_00: keeping visual about the world around you.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: How am I being perceived?
22:18
SPEAKER_00: How am I perceiving myself?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm in a homogenized population.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: All the things that come along with that is a constant aha moment.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: And for me, a lot of people will shudder in that because it is scary.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It is sometimes ominous and feels like it can overtake you.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: But for me, the aha moment is every day that I'm in
22:38
SPEAKER_00: environments like this that I'm alive and I'm safe and I'm thriving,
22:42
SPEAKER_00: my aha moments are every breath I take,
22:45
SPEAKER_00: every interaction,
22:46
SPEAKER_00: every interview,
22:47
SPEAKER_00: every win or loss as a coach,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: as a sport.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Those are the aha moments because they allow me to see life.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: They allow me to deal with adversity.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: They allow me to interact and engage.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: But more importantly,
22:59
SPEAKER_00: they allow me to listen and they allow me to hear and they allow me to grow in the
23:02
SPEAKER_00: moment or down the road.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I think my biggest aha moment for me just in the same context with Heidi is my grandfather,
23:12
SPEAKER_00: my pop-pop,
23:12
SPEAKER_00: who I think I quote like 100 times a day and is like my personal hero.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: He gave me aha moments.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: He gave me the ability to see the world differently.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: for what it is and not what TV Guide and MTV wants me to think it is.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: And he would expose me to different cultures, expose me to different neighborhoods.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And last night we were just having a conversation about this over the phone last
23:37
SPEAKER_00: night that my grandfather would take me to neighborhoods and say,
23:41
SPEAKER_00: look at the discrepancies in neighborhoods.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Look at the banks in this neighborhood versus the check cashing places in this neighborhood.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: How does one bridge a gap?
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
23:51
SPEAKER_00: he's doing this to me at age eight,
23:54
SPEAKER_00: all the way up to power observation,
23:57
SPEAKER_00: but also putting the question into me,
24:00
SPEAKER_00: like,
24:00
SPEAKER_00: how would you bridge this gap?
24:02
SPEAKER_00: Because you are kind of in the middle.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: You're in it, but you're not of it.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: How would you help?
24:08
SPEAKER_00: How would you improve?
24:10
SPEAKER_00: How would you erase?
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And not asking me those questions to try to find answers,
24:15
SPEAKER_00: but asking me to critically think about things,
24:18
SPEAKER_00: but giving me the actual visual.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's not just something, a placebo.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: It's not a hypothetical.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: It was an aha moment.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, whoa, literally life is different on the other side of the tracks.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: How do you bridge that?
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Because regardless of the rich person over here, marginalized person over here, we all eat the same food.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: We all listen to same music.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: We either root for or against the same teams.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: And realizing that there's,
24:41
SPEAKER_00: as Heidi would say,
24:41
SPEAKER_00: there's a movable middle between there to bring people together and to stop keeping
24:45
SPEAKER_00: them separate.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: So I'd love in our remaining time to talk about an engagement with a client.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Like what's a typical client?
24:52
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about some youth programs.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: You work with a lot of state agencies.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: Lots of nonprofits.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Lots of nonprofits.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Like what's a typical engagement?
24:59
SPEAKER_01: What makes for an ideal client?
25:01
SPEAKER_01: And are you willing to share a success story or two?
25:04
SPEAKER_02: I feel like any time we get to work with an agency or a business or a school or a
25:11
SPEAKER_02: community group,
25:13
SPEAKER_02: that is a success story because we are creating opportunities for people to teach
25:19
SPEAKER_02: and learn together.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: We invite organizations to think of their successes and best practices and lift them up.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: We invite them to think about
25:31
SPEAKER_02: their clients, their constituents, their stakeholders, who's in the room, who's not in the room.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Who needs to be in the room and who wants to be in the room.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Sure, exactly.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: And every time we're with a group,
25:45
SPEAKER_02: we're asking them to really think about challenges and barriers and being real
25:50
SPEAKER_02: about them,
25:51
SPEAKER_02: whether it's...
25:53
SPEAKER_02: They want to build deeper relations with tribal communities.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: What are you doing well right now that's been working?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Where are you feeling stuck?
26:06
SPEAKER_02: And what are the resources that you need?
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Setting goals.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: We want to have that accountability within so this isn't a check the box.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of our...
26:20
SPEAKER_02: relationships are long-term because there is no box checking people really want to
26:26
SPEAKER_02: invest in this and they really want to build stronger more cohesive teams you know
26:34
SPEAKER_02: they want that longevity with their staff and they want to build positive
26:39
SPEAKER_02: relationships with clients and constituents um
26:45
SPEAKER_02: We worked with the Department of Natural Resources and Conservation for many years,
26:50
SPEAKER_02: training all their new staff.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: But then tailoring, you know, everything we do, we tailor to the needs of the group or organization.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Like we just don't come in with canned things.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: People are really surprised that we don't come in with PowerPoints and we're lecturing.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: Like we're experiential.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: You're going to learn more from listening to your colleague than you are from us.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: We learn from them.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: So it's really building off the expertise in the room and
27:23
SPEAKER_02: You know,
27:24
SPEAKER_02: one cool thing that happened with the DNRC work is they wanted to empower more
27:31
SPEAKER_02: women leadership.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: And so then we designed an empowering women's leadership series that was constituent based.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: So we had women within DNRC working around issues.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: We had the men in a separate group working on issues and then coming together and
27:52
SPEAKER_02: really creating a strategy around how to empower that leadership within, you know, the agency.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, every group we work with is inspiring and, you know, positive.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned for part two of my conversation with Heidi Wallace and Regime Seabrook next week.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to A New Angle.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: If you like what we do and want to support us directly,
28:19
SPEAKER_01: please consider a subscription at anewanglepodcast.com.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: A New Angle is recorded at Studio 49, a generous gift from UM alums Michelle and Lauren Hansen.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Our presenting sponsors are First Security Bank,
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Blackfoot Communications,
28:36
SPEAKER_01: and the University of Montana College of Business.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Kelly Larson is our producer.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Maddie Jordan is our production assistant.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: VTO Jeff Ament and John Wicks made our music.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And Jeff Meese is our master of all things sound.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot and see you next time.