Latest / Before You Speak / Before You Speak | Episode 34 | Does the Democratic Party need Democratic socialist to survive?

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Before You Speak | Episode 34 | Does the Democratic Party need Democratic socialist to survive? · Before You Speak

• Derek Peterson: What's up y'all? Welcome back to the Before You Speak podcast. I am your host, Derek Peterson. ⁓ just processing the fire hose of my newsfeed like I do every week with ⁓ this guy over here. Elwyn: What's up everybody? I am Elwyn and ⁓ fire hose of my news feed this week is filled with algae, pond scum, paint chips, and apparently a dead duck. Derek Peterson: Dude, a dead duck. ⁓ PETA's gonna be all over that and the Republicans are are ⁓ are not going to be happy. Once PETA's involved, you are screwed. They ⁓ they don't give up. What is ⁓ what's your take on the ⁓ the the reflecting pond in general? Elwyn: I mean the the the metaphor, the comparison has already has been made plenty of times by others, but I think it works. It it's good because it works and that it's a perfect metaphor for this entire administration. Just rank corruption, no bid contracts to loyal friends. I don't know if you saw a picture of this guy. Like literally. Yeah, it's like Derek Peterson: ⁓ Fantastic. ⁓ Elwyn: Four seasons landscaping. You can't make this shit up. The guy like wears a big old three piece suit like a Scrooge McDuck villain. you know, it it's just it's so it's overbid, ⁓ poorly done. ⁓ just everything Trump touches dies is like kind of the metaphor for all this. But I think it's also like he's completely insane at this point too. And so it's it's highlighting that where he's just gave a press conference yesterday. Derek Peterson: Of course. Elwyn: And it's bonkers. He's saying, No, someone took a a box cutter and cut a 250-foot-long gash into the bottom of the pool, and that's why this is happening. And the reporter, finally, there was a reporter with a sack who was like, Well, there's cameras and National Guards people all over there. Why don't we have video of that? And he's like, ⁓ ask the parks department. I don't know. I just know that it happened. And you know, he's non-compass mentist at this point. The only difference is that. like between him and Biden, is Biden was like wandering off the wrong direction at international affairs and and in Normandy. And Trump just stays sitting, so that can't happen, and still speaks a more coherent version of English incredibly than Biden was at the end. But like you know, th he's he's completely lost his mind and he's just making shit up and this ⁓ reflecting pool is just like all of it, wrapped into one fairly insignificant ⁓ dealing. Derek Peterson: Dude, I saw ⁓ I think it was decoding Fox News on threads. They were talking about ⁓ they clipped off ⁓ a couple years ago when Biden during the G G seven summit walked off the wrong direction and then literally like they just like ate him alive for that, ⁓ on Fox News. And then literally Trump did the same thing. Like they were all making fun of him because the French prime minister had to like Elwyn: Yeah. Derek Peterson: help Biden back the other direction and then the exact Trump does the exact same thing. It's just Elwyn: Yeah, he like followed the Koreans or the Japanese delegation, right? At the G seven just went completely the wrong way. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just just which, you know, why do it does any of us care about this? We don't. But the fact that like they made it a thing with Biden then becomes the thing I'm like, this is so dumb. But it's also ⁓ par for the course with our political climate at the moment. ⁓ which I think we'd be ⁓ we wouldn't be our we wouldn't be good at political podcasting if we didn't bring up Iran. ⁓ but you know, I we got a deal with done with Iran, ⁓ then we didn't have a deal done with Iran, and I think that's pretty much bit just been how we should report this, ⁓ until we actually have a deal with Iran. I don't know what else to say. Elwyn: Yeah, ⁓ or or is this somehow is this complete lack of a status quo, the new status quo? Right, where it's just like every week the strait opens, it doesn't open, it we lift the blockade, we don't lift the blockade, Israel's not allowed to bomb Lebanon, then they bomb Lebanon and Trump threatens to nuke everybody and yells at Netanyahu a little bit. But ultimately nothing changes. I kind of feel like that's I feel like Trump is fine with that. Trump doesn't want to do the work of actually negotiating a lasting peace deal with Iran. The work that Trump wanted to do was to tear up Obama's deal. That's it. You know, and then make things go boom a little bit in in March. So I don't think he's interested in making a deal. I think now this is all just politicking. Vance put Vance out there to take the hit, you know, so that he can't run. Rubio will will catch some strays too, I'm sure. ⁓ Derek Peterson: Yeah. She did. Elwyn: But none of it is serious. You know, it took Obama the Obama administration had like dozens of lifelong Middle Eastern experts spending weeks and months to hammer out this deal, which, you know, ultimately was incomplete but kind of worked. ⁓ and Trump's like, Cool, I'll send a couple of real estate developers, I'll send Vance there for a weekend. Vance was there for like thirty six hours. He was like, Nah, I think I'm gonna go home. Maybe I'll go home now. It's like This is not a serious endeavor, except it is because we all pay the price for it. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think if it's showing anything, it's just it's showing how good the JCPOA w actually was in the first place. And actually how good of a negotiator ⁓ Obama and his team were for getting that deal done the way it du is. Because you know, like there so many things have come from this that are just not good. And I think the worst part about it is just that and this is the thing that Obama and Biden kept us out of because they were being advised And actually probably listening to their advisors was just that, dude, if Iran closes the strait or h of a Hermoose, they can hold the world hostage because we still run everything off of fossil fuels. And it's a it's it is the the primary source of where it comes from. And because of how this was handled, we have now given Iran more leverage than they ever could have or or or or had before. And not only that, like Sanctions like worldwide. And I didn't realize this with the JCPOA, dude, Russia and China actually signed off on that, that they would ⁓ they would, you know, sanction Iran if they broke the agreement. Like we have no ⁓ we have no enforcement now beyond the US. This is agreement between the US and Iran pretty much now, but everybody else is staying out of it. And before we had a good chunk of Europe. And Russia and Iran to sign off on the JCPOA. And like we have none of that now. So that's the amount of layers that has just shown this deal to be ⁓ so much fur su like such a subpar deal to the JCPOA. Like they're getting more money. Now they have control of the strait. ⁓ they're charging for people to come in and out, which is what Not what was happening before. And they're getting what? Like 10X or 20X the amount of money that they got from the Biden deal or from the Obama deal. So yeah, like ⁓ dude, d this is a giant mess and ⁓ a mess that ⁓ somehow when all is said and done, they're gonna just be like, it was Biden's fault. Elwyn: Yeah, w or Obama. They they'll just blame it on Biden and Obama, no question about it. The the funniest thing in the world by by the by the way, which the Iranians should absolutely do, demand, is for the twenty four billion in unfrozen assets to be delivered on pallets of cash. The way the way Obama the way it was when Obama did the J C P O A you know, and then we can run the the two videos of one pallet versus like ten pallets of just Derek Peterson: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Elwyn: dollar bills. ⁓ but there there's a couple of things that I think about with this whole thing. One is that like the status quo if if if we if there's been a situation that's lasted for 40 or 50 years, probably that largely works. ⁓ and I think that there's human nature, it's in it's in our human nature to get bored of it. Right? To get bored of things that are successful. ⁓ because For no other reason than we get bored, we get restless and bored. And, you know, I just think people talk about like, well, Iran's been a problem for forty seven years and the ever since nineteen forty-eight, the Middle East with Israel, and blah blah blah blah blah. And it's like I don't live there, so people who live there can call me a an idiot. Okay, but I live here and the arrangement seems to have worked pretty well for us. ⁓ and did not need to be blown up. And my sec the so the second thing I think about with this is a corollary, which is, you know, Trump justifies this whole thing by saying that he was the only one that had the guts to go in and actually go after Iran, that Iran has been waging war against the US for forty seven years, and he's the only one in the long line of presidents to do anything. Well, maybe every other president had advisors saying, Yeah, you can do this. But on day three, Iran is gonna close this area to four moves, and the only way to open that is gonna be to send five hundred thousand troops into the Middle East. And every other president was like, No, that's not fucking worth it at all. That's just goddamn it, they blew up the USS Cole. I'm really that's terrible. That's a loss of two hundred and forty lives. But we have to find some other way to respond to it other than bombing, because everybody, every advisor who knows the area says this is exactly what's gonna happen. And there's no way out of it if that happens. And so Trump was the first one to not listen to his advisors, it would seem. And his advisors were completely right. And every other president for f it's not a credit to Trump that he did something that no but no other president had done. Not to me, it's that every other president probably asked the same question. And their advisors told them that this is exactly what would happen. And they said, ⁓ well then that makes this a terrible idea. And Trump was just like, Nah, fuck you. I I know better than you. We're gonna do it anyway and Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: It's a terrible idea, and now he's lost interest. So I keep kind of cycling back to those two things with this whole mess. Derek Peterson: Yeah. That and the fact that Heg Seth is the most you know underqualified, you know, military ⁓ leader in the history of the US. Like I mean th we he's getting advised by some of the dumbest human beings I've ever seen. And you can just contrast that to like the people that ⁓ other leadership like the guys Obama had around him, you know, you just Like I listen to a lot of those guys' podcasts now and they're some of the smartest dudes ⁓ around. So like you you know, you just the the dynamic of like going from what was there before to this, it's it's just really hard to stomach. And you can see the the ⁓ administration that was all about, you know, ⁓ you know, making sure we hired the most qualified people, people no DEI hires, blah blah blah. ⁓ then just watching them all flub around because they have no idea what they're doing and no experience in the jobs that they got hired for. It's hilarious and gonna be looked back on on h in history as some of the craziest shit that we've ever gone through. So Elwyn: Yeah, R Reagan had advisors that helped him deftly manage bring an end to the Cold War. George Bush I had advisors that helped him continue that and you know, figure out how to invade Kuwait and the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait and get out in a manageable way. ⁓ you know, Clinton a little less of a good job with like Czechoslovakia and all that stuff. But Obama with the JCPOA, like advisors make a difference and you know, in a What should be a shock to no one, the morons on the Fox and Friends couch in the moron are not actually cabinet level officials. Well, I guess they are, but they shouldn't be. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Knowing that's ⁓ that's the that's the proper feeder system now for the Republican Party. Get a job at Fox News, then get a position in the government. That's how it works. ⁓ Elwyn: It's like twenty seven people from Fox. Derek Peterson: It's insane. I'm it's and also some of the dumbest things that we've ever done as a country. But any let's talk ⁓ a little bit about something positive. Maybe some world like ⁓ World Cup conversation pri before we jump into our democratic socialist conversation. ⁓ 'cause you went to Houston this week and ⁓ saw saw your boys play, right? Elwyn: I didn't I didn't see the game. The tickets are very expensive, but I did do the Dutch Orange Fan Walk, ⁓ which so they have a a bus, they ship a bus, actually it's two buses, I didn't know, ⁓ to all the international competitions. They've been doing this for 20 years, and they start about two, two and a half miles away from the game at an appointed time, and they drive to the game. And all these Dutch fans follow them, and they've got speakers and they're playing songs and people are dancing and chanting. ⁓ for the entirety of the walk. So it in Houston it had to be fifteen thousand plus. The line of people all dressed in orange was at least a mile and a half long. It was an incredible amount of people. ⁓ and they have like a like a song where everybody goes to the left, everybody goes to the right and everybody goes crazy. So they do that a couple of times on the way. A lot of fun. And the whole like I'm not a a soccer fan. Derek Peterson: That's insane. Elwyn: I think because the United States is through the next round, we can call it soccer for the duration of podcast. ⁓ so but I think with the since twenty twenty two, social media's even more and just the way this World Cup is organized with all these fans coming from other countries into cities around the United States and Canada, the content has been just amazing to watch. Just really cool. The Scottish fans, the Tartan Army drank. Derek Peterson: Ha ha ha. Elwyn: Boston dry. The Norwegians are sitting in Times Square doing a a an outdoor yoga class, like two thousand of them behind an outdoor yoga class, and then doing the Norwegian row, ⁓ the Dutch fans with their walk. It's just been tremendous content. I'm just mainlining that shit every night 'cause it's really cool. It's really, really cool. Derek Peterson: Yep. ⁓ I agree with everything you said and I also think Sweden got screwed on that offsides call. So, you know, that's a different game if if you know, just call it fair. Call it call it the same across the board, World Cup refs. Elwyn: Bro, the Dutch the Dutch ran the Dutch ran right over them. It w wasn't Derek Peterson: ⁓ you know, if that game is ⁓ if that point goes in, that changes a lot of things. You know. Maybe maybe my may May maybe maybe my maybe my people make a comeback, Elwyn. All right? You know? The ⁓ our Swedish although I don't know the has Sweden ever w I don't think they've ever won a World Cup. I don't think they've ever won any world. They're just too like, yeah, we're cool. We're good. Elwyn: The final score. Yeah. ⁓ huh. I I think they're happy that the d it got expanded to sixty four teams. Derek Peterson: Yeah. I think there's a lot of countries that are including the US is probably happy that that happened. So well ⁓ let's jump into our comp conversation today, which is going to be ⁓ b ⁓ about democratic socialism. ⁓ so in general, ⁓ democratic socialists believe capitalism creates wealth, but it also creates inequality. ⁓ certain necessities should be ⁓ Elwyn: Yeah. ⁓ Derek Peterson: ⁓ should not be primarily market driven. Government should play a larger role in providing health care, education, howdy housing, and worker protections. Unlike traditional socialism, ⁓ democratic socialism does not generally advocate for government owning businesses, ⁓ the elimination of markets, or any kind of like Soviet-style economics. So most modern American ⁓ democratic socialists support elections, private property, and democracy. So ⁓ just to kind of set the stage for this conversation, now we have to ask the ⁓ the question does the Democratic Party in the United States need democratic socialists to survive? Elwyn: Yeah, without a doubt. ⁓ the without a and in part because there's a a healthy split in the Democratic Party where on one side is kind of old school centrist Democrats and on the younger side is on the other side, I said the younger side, it's apt, is younger, frankly more energetic, ⁓ more forward looking politicians like AOC and and Mam Dani, ironically led by Bernie Sanders, who's a hundred and thirty years old. ⁓ and those are the democratic socialists. And like even without that, parties need wings, right? You you you have to have a centrist wing of the Democratic Party and a and a more left wing of the Democratic Party. It just so happens that if the de right now in 2026, if the Democrats want to win, they need the energy coming from the Democratic Socialist side of the party, the Chuck Schumer side of the party, the Amy Kloboshar side of the party. Derek Peterson: Ha ha ha. Elwyn: They ain't bringing it. Nobody's going to vote for them anymore. They they their approval rating is like four. ⁓ so yeah, the Democrats need this ⁓ and they need to work together to sell it. Derek Peterson: Yep. Well Yeah, centrist Democrats at this point just feel like run of the mill. Like it's hard to get excited about it because you're like, man, we're you're gonna go right back into plain politics and ⁓ democratic socialism, especially with what mom Donnie's doing, is dude, we're seeing action. Like we're seeing somebody that's doing what they said they were gonna do. And for all those people that wanna fight against socialism socialism, okay, great, but then fucking do something. Because like that This is the problem. Centrist Democrats are are playing politics and we need somebody that's actually going to make changes for the betterment of the people. Elwyn: Right. What it what is the centrist what is the Chuck Schumer answer to the healthcare crisis in this country? Is it if it's not Medicare for all, what is it? I don't I don't know what it is, right? There seems to be no answer. What is the Chuck Schumer answer? Go ahead. Derek Peterson: Well and and if there was an answer, why well yeah, exactly. If there was an answer, why it ha why hasn't this been on the table and being pushed by Democrats for a very long time? Like there why isn't there a clear path forward? Elwyn: Right. What is the Democrats, the centrist Democrats answer to the lack of to the ⁓ diminishment of union and labor power in this country? That used to be a core democratic constituency that's flipped because the dem Democrats weren't doing anything for it. There is no answer, but the Democratic Socialists have one. What's the de what's the answer from the Democrats for increased costs of housing? You know, for climate change, for all these issues, they don't seem to have one. The people that are out there screaming, we have a plan, we have a Green New Deal, we have a plan for housing in New York City and maybe in rural areas. I don't know. We have a plan for Medicare for all. Those are the Democratic Socialists of America right now. Right? It's just it's just true. So yeah, the Democratic Party needs them because they're the only ones with an idea, and it just so happens that that idea is ⁓ reaching meeting really fertile ground. ⁓ at this point in time. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. And so we're talking about when we talk about democratic socialism, the things that get people exciting is affordable housing, universal healthcare, you know, free ⁓ like education, sp specifically when we're talking about this, most likely call free all college education and ⁓ eliminating student debt, and then obviously wealth inequality, and you just you hit you hit it on the head there, you know. We've lost unions and use unions advocate for workers' compensation. And one of the biggest things that we're dealing with right now is the wealth ⁓ the wealth gap. And we there's so many people talking about billionaires, you know, screwing everybody over. And guess what they prevent from happening? They prevent all their workers from being able to unionize and fight for, you know, fair wages and ⁓ you know. Je the Jeff Bezos and you know, obviously some of the tech companies, it's a little bit different because, you know, you have to be highly skilled to get a job at Meta. ⁓ so like, you know, if you're getting a job at Meta, you're probably making a shit ton of money for the most part, unless you're getting unless it's one of the jobs that gets fished out to overseas. But ⁓ yeah, but for the most part, the energy that's being brought by democratic socialists are the changes that alleviate and actually make life better for the working class people because it puts money back in their pocket. And so like where where did this all start to go wrong? Like what what was like, you know, was there a like we all talk about the American dream, right? Like ⁓ and it just kind of feels like at this point we've lost that. So it feels like a lot of this is this push to try to get back to that. Elwyn: Yeah, you know, I I don't know if we can pinpoint when the American dream became unattainable, but I think that we can speak with some some clarity that it by and large has become unattainable. ⁓ you know, if you just go back and like when we think of I don't know, when I think of the American dream, right, I'm fifty one years old. What am I what pops into my head like how's it Cheap affordable housing, like housing tracks like Levit Town out on Long Island, where kind of every house looks the same, but husband is going out to work, ⁓ decent middle class job, you know, maybe it's blue collar, maybe it's white-collar, but they're all making enough money to support a wife, a couple kids, and a dog with a picket fence, whatever, right? Like the this leave it to beaver kind of image comes into my mind. And I do think that that's what was sold as the American dream. Get an education, get a job. Work for 30 years, build up your pension. Over that 30 years, you'll be able to afford a house. You'll build wealth in that house by building equity. You'll be able to retire on the back of that equity, pass it on to your kids through your pension. and you'll just be able to live, you'll have to work for your life. But if you do the work, you you'll have this this good life. And I just think now to people to kids coming out of college, you know. And again, I'm fifty one, so I'm not quite a boomer, but my kids like to call me a boomer. That's gotta seem just completely ridiculous. Right? The idea that if you go to work, work forty hours a week, you'll have a pension and enough money to, you know, get married, have one working parent, the other parents stays home and raise the kids, and you got a nice house with a picket fence and a yard, it's gotta seem completely insane. Right? No, you have to work 60 hours a week. You're a part of the work family. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: You know, where they want you ⁓ on call all the time and both the parents, both you and your spouse or partner have to work and then forget about having kids, right? You have to talk about how you're gonna have kids and figure out the cost of childcare and how far away are you living from your job? Are you living in the city? Is it an hour away? If so, do you have cars? How much does it cost to buy the house? How much does it cost to maintain the house? All these numbers add up in in a manner that makes this idea of the American dream seem ludicrous. And what's really happening is that people are still pitching it. People still think that it exists, right? And they're not talking about the fundamental problem that it does not. And in the absence of that American dream, what are we doing to provide for our citizenry? Right? How how do we provide health care for our citizens and housing? And how do we take care of something like climate change? And how do we ensure that wages keep pace with inflation over the course of thirty years? Derek Peterson: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: And these are the issues that the democratic socialists are talking about. And I think that there's just been a vacuum over the last five years that's been filled by this. And your your bringing up of Jeff Jeff Bezos and tech people is a good it's an interesting point because, like, yeah, you have to be skilled to work at Meta, but I think people look at Mark Zuckerberg and Meta and they see an instrument of power that works against them. They see someone who is shaping the world in a manner that hurts most people rather than helps most people. They look at Jeff Bezos and they see just simply a a capitalist pig who will, you know, create some terrible work conditions and make billions and billions off the backs of human suffering. Jeff Bezos said this week that we should all be prepared to, you know, give up our water so that AI can it's more important that AI gets our water. Because if AI gets the water, they'll solve humanity's problems. So humanity has to be able to give up our water on that promise. I think people hear that and they're like, You're fucking insane, man, because I can't buy a house. And you're telling me that I gotta give up water. I can't afford meals. I'm stealing from the corporate lunchroom. And you're telling me that I gotta give up water for your data center. And I think that's the space that the Democratic Socialists of America are stepping right into. Derek Peterson: Yeah, and this has been like I think the story and the unraveling of my brain ⁓ thus far. And honestly what's pushed me farther left as I've gotten older is just seeing it all happen. The the wealth gap is the biggest thing. I heard I think it was Scott Galloway say it. It's like, look, dude, people aren't mad about the wealth gap. What they're mad about is the opportunities to build wealth. are s diminishing quickly and being hoarded by the wealthy. So like historically, like guys like myself, if we got into the work environment and we worked our ass off, when the opportun right opportunity came, if we if we hit it right, like it takes a little bit of luck, it takes a hard work and an opportunity, right? And then you can build success. And I think what we're seeing with generations behind us is just that that's not happening. You know, like The hard work and and everything isn't you isn't providing the opportunities to build the wealth that we all are desiring to build. And then furthermore, that wealth is flaunted in front of our faces more than it ever has been before. You know, like with social media, TV, everything else, like we have this obsession as a culture with really nice things. And ⁓ so the that is the flip side of it and the danger part. The dangerous part about that is that the worship of money and people with money is the very thing that gives them the power to continue to oppress. Like all these people that are up on Elon Musk's junk being like, he just made, you know, a hundred ⁓ like so many people, however many people, like thousands of people millionaires because of the SpaceX IPO. I was like, that's funny because he also got a hundred Hundreds of thousands of people fired from their jobs that were completely content making, you know, somewhere between fifty and a hundred thousand dollars a year. And guess who spends their money in those in those climates? People, middle class people. If you make a hundred K a year, most of your paycheck is going it back into the economy. You're you're out buying different things, food, vacationing. All these people that just became millionaires, guess where their money goes? Stock portfolios. Elwyn: Yeah. Yeah. It's and the thing that radicalized me ⁓ to to the left a little bit, you know, which is a core DSA platform is universal healthcare. So when I was working after law school, one of my jobs was with legal services, and I was in charge of finding pro bono pro bono attorneys ⁓ for people who couldn't afford an attorney on their own. And most of those cases were bankruptcy cases. ⁓ for whatever reason didn't fit under the existing grants. So we would have to go out into the community and find bankruptcy attorneys and were willing to help and assign them to clients. And that was my job to make that connection. So I would have to talk to the client and find the attorney. And you know, four out of five of these clients, this was in 2007, four out of five of these clients were kind of upstate New York, Putnam, Orange County, New York, one working You know, ⁓ they were very traditional like the the the American dream style family, let's say a mechanic, a plumber, a blue collar job, ⁓ couple of kids, father working, mother staying at home, and then someone gets sick. They get in a car accident, wife gets diagnosed with MS, whatever. And now they can't make their house payment because of their medical bills. And now they have to decide whether or not they're gonna declare bankruptcy. And that's the conversation that I had dozens and dozens of times. I can either pay my medical bills or I can pay my house payment. What should I do? And that just struck me as fundamentally wrong and unfair in this country where we're told, if you work hard, this dream is there for you, right? You might not make a million dollars. I don't think most people think they're going to make a million dollars. They want to be able to afford their mortgage, have it not be rent, they want to be able to afford their mortgage. work hard, have a couple beers at the end of the day and watch their kids play little league or soccer. And that is stolen in in my in that experience I had, that was stolen because we couldn't provide health insurance. Right. And then I've started to look into it more and I found out that universal healthcare is by by far the better healthcare system anyway. Right. And I think just more and more. That's what people understand. They understand I had this conversation with Lisa last night. Right? Like I have cheap health insurance for me. The rest of the family's on different health insurance. And, you know, she was pricing out health insurance and they were like, well, it's going to be like $300 a month more if I want to get on their plan than what I'm paying now. Right. And I was like, no, this is stupid because my health insurance sucks, but it's still cheaper, even if I have out of pocket expenses. And again, the democratic socialists are sitting there going, Medicare for all, universal health care is the way to go. That is the correct answer. It's the correct answer in the rest of the in the rest of the developed world, and it's the correct answer here. And people see that and they're like, Yeah, dude, that makes sense. ⁓ and the Democratic Socialists are going, Hey, unions should protect these Amazon workers and protect these Starbucks workers. And the people who work at Amazon and at Starbucks are going, Yeah, that kind of makes a lot of sense. ⁓ you know, and Young people are going, hey, our climate is on fire, and the Democratic Socialists are going, Hey, Green New Deal. You know, let's let's start to talk about this stuff. And because it makes sense. And that's why they're strong right now. The problem that they have is people just hear that word socialist and they have a couple of really stupid policies too. Derek Peterson: ⁓ Yeah. As as always. But I think what people I think the part about this that's interesting to me is if you you you think about it in like long term effects, right? So let's say we actually like what is the downside to forcing companies to pay a living wage, to having like a twenty dollar minimum wage, to ⁓ cutting because like ultimately what ends up happening here Is that when we when we go this route and we start to make some of these changes, it disrupts other things, right? And that's what people are fighting for. The people that fight against this are fighting against the disruption because they're already ahead of the game. And so people that own stocks in these companies, for example, if you own stock in Amazon, your profitability is going to go down when you start paying workers more money because the company is not going to be reporting revenues as high as they are. And this goes back to previous podcasts where we've done where you know now companies are more beholden to their stockholders than they are their people, which is was a huge shift in the 80s that fucked a lot of things up. But this this is where the problem lies, is because all those people that are invested and own stock in companies like Amazon now see that stock portfolio go down because the profits aren't as high. But now a bunch of people are making a living wage. So there's there's this adjustment period that if we do things like this and make some of these actual real changes that people have to be prepared for. But the flip side of it is, and this is the part for me that I I get frustrated about is that, you know, like when we talk about socialism, the thing that is attractive to socialism, ⁓ attracts a lot, in my opinion, attracts a lot of people to socialism right now, is that it feels fair. And What we're seeing with capitalism right now is it feels very unfair. It feels like whoever got lucky and got ahead of the race is now cutting the lines to for anybody else to be able to to catch up. So you have these guys like Elon Musk that are out there, you know, becoming the first trillionaire on the backs of the American people. Like Elon Musk doesn't get to where he's at if he's not a walking over a bunch of people and basically, you know, ⁓ hardlining his way to his to the career that he has, which involved, you know, cutting people out of businesses and certain things, but also a bunch of government contracts that got all these companies off the ground. You know, Spa SpaceX is one of the biggest subsidiaries of the government that ⁓ is out there at the moment. And same with like pharmaceutical companies and all these different things. So like We're seeing this world where we're funneling tax dollars to these companies and making the richest people in the world ⁓ even more rich while it becomes increasingly more difficult to become that. And the there is no for anybody that's in an upper tier tax bracket and owns stock, there is no way out of this without those people losing something. And so that most likely comes at the way of, you know, stock going down. ⁓ to pay people living wages and companies not being as profitable. But if you actually do it the right, you create more competition and you c put the rails back on so companies can't just create a monopol ⁓ monopoly and you allow other companies to come up and create competition and you have more companies to invest in in the future. So it's I don't know, it's it I Elwyn: I don't think that the disruption you talk about is ⁓ I'm not worried about it, let's put it that way. Right? Like would it would imposition of a fifteen dollar or twenty dollar an hour national fair wage, living wage, cause a a disruption in corporate shareholder profits? Maybe a blip, you know, maybe a tiny bit. But study after study shows that the prices don't really go up. Like the prices that we pay don't go up. And for every dollar, every additional dollar that that person is making between $13 and $20, they're spending almost all of that money on additional goods and services made by those companies. So you know, you you give the people more money and they just turn around and spend it all on the companies that, you know, just have to pay their wages more. It's a it's a net benefit for the companies. The thing that I think happens is the thing that I think must be fought, ⁓ I'll rephrase it. The the problem that the democratic socialist movement runs into is that idea of that scary idea of socialism and people not really understanding the idea that we can have a democracy and also have in place certain socialist programs. We have in place certain socialist programs right now. We have fire departments and police departments and highway departments. We have Medicare and Social Security. We have publicly run schools and publicly run hospitals. These all kind of work on the same thing, on the same principle that universal healthcare would work on, which is collect tax money and invest it into a in ⁓ in some way into something that benefits the populace as a whole, the public as a whole. We've just sort of drawn the line at roads instead of healthcare. Right? And I think that's the issue. It's very, very easy for Republicans to sit there and be like, No, they just want to jack up your taxes so that they can give illegal immigrants health care in your new socialist Venezuela style country. And people who don't take the time to think about it, they're like, ⁓ my God, that sounds terrible and all of a sudden they stop paying attention to the fact that they pay eighteen thousand dollars a year. for healthcare and that there is no way in the world that their additional taxes are going to be eighteen thousand dollars a year. ⁓ so that's the biggest problem that democratic socialists have, and they need the Democratic Party to get on board and make that shit mainstream. And thus far they haven't. Derek Peterson: Yep. Yeah. Yeah, and you're a thousand percent because a lot of the because a lot of the the Democrats that aren't as far on the progressive side spend so much more of their time fighting Republican ideology than they do actually speaking and bringing about a message of change. And what you said is exactly correct. We need people talking about the fact that look the money's there. Like we There the the change in taxes, A for working class people should be virtually nothing. And to be honest, that we can probably find way to ways to alleviate taxes on the middle class a little bit more if we actually just created a fair tax structure that ⁓ you know, that wealthy people couldn't find every loophole to to work their way around and essentially just borrow against your assets until you die and then transfer your wealth to your kids. But The ⁓ the thing that's the thing that democratic socialism has right now that ⁓ that the Democrats in general don't have are clear goals, big ideas, and ambitious reforms. And if there is one thing that our country is in need of, it's change. Like nobody wants to vote for anybody that's going to fight for our country to stay the same as it currently is. Everybody is pushing for change. And we have all of these radical dumbasses running for awes office and getting elected because they're promising shit that they can't deliver on, but because they're just making the promise, people are voting for And this is where the disconnect comes from the Democrats is I don't know that the Democrats or at least the ones that have been lifelong in the party doing this forever, believe that any of this shit can actually get done. Like, I don't think the Chuck Schumers of the world actually believe that we could achieve universal health care or they'd be talking about it. And so the byproduct of that is that get the fuck out. If you don't believe that we can actually change, then like let's find people that do because we want this. Elwyn: Yeah. I don't I I I I think it goes one step beyond that. I don't think Chuck Schumer understands the problem. I don't I don't think he understands healthcare or housing, the the depth of the problem. And I think that, you know, by far the most successful at this point, ⁓ you know, democratic socialist politician has gotta be Mom Daman. ⁓ the you know and I think it's because he understands one basic truth. It doesn't people listen to politics, you know, some do, some don't. They don't care about process. They don't care about how the sausage is made. They care does their landlord get the heat fixed in time? They care, are the schools safe? They care, are the potholes fixed? Right? That's what people care about. When they wake up in the morning, you know, can they drive to work on a road that's not laden with potholes? And did the landlord get the heat fixed? And you know, in his first six months in office, they fixed like forty thousand potholes. Landlords are getting heating and cooling issues fixed faster, they're getting repairs done faster, they're you know working more on rent. He's work he's working to keep rent from going up so high. At the end of the day, that's what people experience. That's what they experience in their lives. The fucking heat doesn't work. Right? And here's a democratic socialist candidate who now mayor. Who listens to them and understands, ⁓ the heat needs to work. I gotta get these I gotta get landlords somehow to get the heat working. And people need to be able to get to work. And the bus fares are too expensive, and the buses can't get to work because the roads are full of potholes or there's too much traffic, so we need to create more bus lanes so that people can get to work on time so that their boss doesn't fire them. Right? That's what these what a politician like Mam Dani understands and on a national level it gets enrolled into something like universal healthcare. And I don't think that the Chuck Schumers of the world recognize the scope of the problem. I really don't think that they do. Because if they did, then they might start talking about fixing it. They might have a solution. That even if it doesn't look like universal healthcare, they would be talking about some solution. But I don't think that they understand the the the scope of the problem at all. And I think that's why the Democratic Party needs them, ⁓ at the expense of their own survival, frankly. Derek Peterson: Yeah. The ⁓ yeah, I can you imagine if a democratic socialist got elected with the same kind of like ambition and fervence like fervency that that Trump had to do all the changes that he made for him and his family, but to actually like run our country that way. We I think one of the things that's interesting about what Mom Donnie's doing is he's addressing the historical red tape that caused change not to happen. So like it's not just the changes that he's putting in place. He they're also addressing some of the processes and things that have historically ⁓ caused things to not get done or be slow. And we need a president that is willing to do that. Like that is the most critical aspect of what comes next for all of us. Whether it's it whether it's all of the like we need the red tape For change to get cut and taken down. We need to eliminate, you know, the the the outside influence in politics. We need to get the money out of it. Like ⁓ ultimately what it comes down to is we need to get outside money out of politics if we actually want to politic for the people. Because I don't know that if you when you talk about universal healthcare, ⁓ great schools, affordable housing, ⁓ like Who great infrastructure, like who's against this? Like what what person is coming out and be like, we don't want well, yeah, hospitals, but even still, like there is a there is a path forward with doctors and hospitals where if you cut out a bunch of the bullshit that's in the middle of all of this, that there you're not taking away from the profitability of all of that in in some insane way, right? Elwyn: ⁓ hospitals. Derek Peterson: Like there's a world where especially with how fucking expensive everything is now, there's a world where universal healthcare still works and doctors still being a doctor is still extremely lucrative. Like I I'm sorry, I I I just I I disagree with the fact that e those two things can't can't work coexist together. Elwyn: I gr I agree. And and I think that I mean the your your larger point is well taken. It the moneyed interests are always going to be against this stuff because they want the control and the power to call the shots so that they can make the most money. You know but we really do need a rethinking of what does it mean, what what what does it look like in twenty twenty six to be a citizen of the United States ⁓ and what should it look like? Right? We're the third largest coun country in the world. We're the richest country in the world. ⁓ and yet we lead the world in too many poverty and death metrics. ⁓ that's what it looks like. What should it look like? I healthcare should be a right and not a privilege. We should be able to build enough housing so that young people can graduate college and buy a house. There I think I heard today that the average first time home buyer is thirty six or thirty seven years old. The average home buyer, not first the average home buyer's fifty one years old. Right? That's unbelievable. There's you can't build generational wealth in a home if it if you're fifty one. Derek Peterson: Mm-hmm. And your statistics Yep. And there are statistics that are saying now that ⁓ the average first time home buyer might actually be over forty. Like historically it was like early thirties. Elwyn: Yeah, and that's And that's the strength of a community, the strength of schools, who's using parks. That's can you build a family in an area? And does do you build generational wealth and attachment into towns and villages and suburbs? It's all looped into that. ⁓ and it's not like evil socialist to say healthcare I don't believe that it's evil ill socialist to say healthcare is a right and not a privilege, and everybody should have access to it in this country, and that We should find some way to get government involved to cut red tape or to somehow make the housing market work for a larger percentage of the population than it currently works for. That we should get government involved in ⁓ funding climate change ⁓ propositions, lost my word there for a second. You know, and and that the military makes too much money, right? All these things, I think what what the Democratic Socialists of America would say and what they stand for Derek Peterson: Yeah, yeah. Elwyn: is that the the larger proposition that all these things we spend money on reflect a choice. And whose choice is it and what is the choice? We spent eighty billion dollars on a 17 week war in Iran. Eighty billion dollars. What else could that money have funded? Because every time you know childcare comes up or education funding comes up, we're told we don't have enough money. But we have $80 billion apparently to go to war in Iran. We have money to try and bump our defense budget to 1.5 trillion. And I think the Democratic Socialists of America, one of the reasons that they're gaining in power is that they're sitting there going, if we've got that money, let's use it to help people live a productive, happy life. Let's get them to work. They'll work. Right? We're not trying to give them handouts. It's not universal basic income, right? It's not welfare. It's a floor upon which they can build a life, the way that their parents built a life and that their parents before them built a life. Instead, we spend it on defense contractors and we spend it on data centers and we have Jeff Bezos saying that it we should give up our water for AI and we have Mark Zuckerberg saying whatever it is he's saying, but it doesn't help the rank and file American. ⁓ Elon Musk, you with SpaceX, fucking who cares? You know, unless he starts giving Starlink to everybody. Hey. Okay. Get you know, use g make Starlink available in rural areas, you know, okay. I've got other problems with it, but that would be a start. Derek Peterson: Yeah, yeah, and it correct. Yeah, and d dude, you're exactly right. The Republican rebuttal for these conversations is just that, you do this and you know you're creating a system where people are gonna feed off the bottom, they're just gonna stop doing everything because they everything's for free. And I will I will shut that conversation down faster than anything now. Because like honestly, I'm like, go fuck yourself. The the amount of money that we've given the most successful, successful in parentheses, because they their businesses were built on the back of the American tax dollar. The amount of money that we've given these defense contractors and all of these companies that we have deemed big pharma, ⁓ space companies, ⁓ all these tech companies that now that are giving getting government contracts for their That are fucking egregious for the services that they're providing. You know, they get a government contract for ⁓ the what they've already provided to everybody else, but they get paid, you know, eight hundred X what they, you know, are charging a regular consumer because it's a government contract. I'm like, audit that shit. Like, let's let's look, first first steps first, let's take the the money that we are just throwing at wealthy people that happen to have businesses that The government uses their services for. And let's moderate those first. And then once we've moderated all that and we have universal health care and we have universal child care, ⁓ and our public school system is thriving, and it there's no k poor kids that are going hungry. Like once we've solved all those problems, we can worry about the bottom feeders. We can worry about the few, the the poor people that are leeching off the system ⁓ and maybe taking advantage of it. But I'll tell you right now. The bigger problem is the the wealthy people that are leaching off the system because the amount of money they're extracting from us is far greater than a poor person ever will get. Elwyn: Yeah, corporate welfare is by far a bigger problem than welfare fraud amongst people ⁓ amongst actual citizens. And I think that, you know, this idea that people don't want to work, I just don't buy it. You know, of course there are of course there are some, right? Obviously. But you know, when I was at legal services, before I was helping the the pro in the pro bono unit, I did a lot of ⁓ benefits work. And Derek Peterson: I don't either. Elwyn: It was exceptionally rare for me to run across a client who was telling me something any other anything else than I want to go to work. Right? I want to be able to work. I want to be able to provide for my family. I'm not trying to get a handout. I'm trying to navigate the system until I can get a job that works for me and my family, or until I can get Section 8 housing so that I can afford to pay my rent. There they were there were a couple of people who didn't d who didn't want that. But it was ninety percent of people who were like, I just need to be in a place where I can get a job that will provide for my family. And I don't have that now, so I need help navigating the benefits system, and that's why they they were at legal services. You know, we talked one of the things that I like one of the reasons why like people at someone asked me this week, I never voted for a Republican or a non-democrat, and I voted for Ralph Nader a long time ago. ⁓ it was you. I thought it was you. Okay, yeah. ⁓ Derek Peterson: I asked you that last week, bro. Elwyn: But like one of the reasons why I am Democrat and and you know it's gonna be really hard to move me is we talked last week about MAGA. And you know what I feel about MAGA is that they have no values whatsoever. They're they're a hollowed out corpus that just gets filled with whatever Donald Trump says they believe in that moment, but that sh Derek Peterson: Yeah, they have one value which is loyalty to Trump. Elwyn: That's right. The Democratic Party, you know, at least there's people within the Democratic Party who are talking about this. Who are you know, we're we're having a whole policy-based discussion right now. There's no policy coming from the right, right? The the the right controls the House and the Senate and the Presidency. They've passed the fewest laws than any Congress in history. They are doing nothing, and they're quite content to do nothing. At least within the Democratic Party. There is a group of people who is very, very loudly screaming that these are the things we should be fighting for. ⁓ and that is hopeful. You know, ⁓ and it's why at the end of the day, I think that they're gonna do well until unless Chuck Schumer fucks them up. Derek Peterson: Yes. It fucks it up. Yeah. Fuck Chuck Schumer. ⁓ fuck Clarence Thomas and Ken Paxton is a ⁓ pedop protector. So got that I Hoffman Files. I did. I heard Telarico bring dude. Thank God. Like it should be at the forefront of everything. So and now I've just recently seen that Republicans are coming out and saying, like, no, Adam Hoffman was innocent, that this was a ⁓ Elwyn: Yeah, the edi The Hoffman Files, did you hear that? Did you hear tell? Yeah. Derek Peterson: This was some political attack and I was like, excuse me, like Google that. Before you start spouting that off, just Google it real quick before so before we get to our shut the fuck up, is there anything else you wanna ⁓ tie off on your ⁓ democratic socialist rant? Elwyn: No, I I I think people should look ⁓ up. I think by the way on their platform is is defund the police, which is fucking stupid. They should get rid of that. It's it's it's why shit like that is why they lose. Right? But but by and large Go ahead, sorry. Derek Peterson: It's exactly why. Yeah. It's dude there Yeah, was gonna say like it the there are certain things like foundationally in everything that we have, feeling safe is one of the most critical things that human beings desire. And it's the reason why Republicans have been able to tap in and get what they want because they can make you afraid of everything. Make you afraid of immigrants, make you afraid of black people, make you afraid of you know, the radical left make you whatever their thing is, is they're they're gonna make you afraid of it. And our police force is as messed up as it is, it's ⁓ it's such a critical part of the infrastructure of our country. And to say that we don't need it, I think is the ⁓ or to defund it is one of the worst things we can do. I think the focus should be on making sure that those people are being ⁓ cared for and compensated well enough That we can find the right people to do those jobs. We can find people that have the right values in the same way we're talking about p politics. We need people with good values getting into the political ⁓ sphere. We need people that really believe in justice and have a big heart to be cops. So Elwyn: I'm gonna I'm gonna zag on my shut the fuck up because now I'm gonna go right right into it. I think the defund the police people, in the spirit of this, should shut the fuck up. And here's the thing, like I understand what they're saying. They're not they're not really saying take all the funding away from the police. What they're talking about when they talk about defund the police is the amount of time that and the amount of money Derek Peterson: Yes. Elwyn: that is spent on police officers doing social work, responding to domestic violence calls when there's a known mentally ill person in the household, responding to, you know, just shit that a social worker should be able to do. Shit that there's some other branch of government that that should be able to handle this. That and those they're the reason they're upset about that is because those situations very often now, if you have police responding to them, end up Poorly. It ends up with the mentally disabled person being shot and killed, which has happened too many times to count, because the police are not trained in mental health and de-escalating a mental health crisis. But that's who our society relies on to do that. That's who people call when you call 911. That's who gets sent out. So that's that's like the core of the defund the police theory, right? That we should take some money. We should take ten, fifteen percent of the money from the police away and invest it into social workers or other systems that can take the burden off of police officers so the police officers can focus on patrolling high crime areas and reducing crime and investigating crime and doing what police do. But they came up with this fucking name. Defund the police, which is impossible to explain. Nobody wants to listen. To me, spend 73 seconds talking about what defend the police really is, they're gonna listen, they're gonna be fucking hey, whatever. You said defund the police, and I know I know what those three words mean. Period. End of story. You wanna pull all the police from No, I don't want to pull all the police from your neighborhood. And some of them actually do, and those people should really shut the fuck up. Okay. But it's like, you're exactly right. People will vote for their for the safety of their neighborhood above everything else. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Elwyn: It doesn't make them single issue voters, but they're not gonna vote for universal health care if they feel like crime is bad. Right? And if you're taught if you're running on a platform that includes universal health care, but also defunding the police, you're gonna fucking lose because of what you just said. People are gonna hear that and they're gonna be like, Universal health care would be great, but I'm probably gonna need it because I'm gonna be mugged and I don't wanna be mugged. I'd rather not be mugged, so I'm not gonna vote for you because thanks for the health care, but you also got me mugged. And you know, my neighbor got shot. ⁓ so yeah, DSA or anybody who somehow, after twenty twenty and twenty twenty two, still talking about defunding the police, shut the fuck up. Tuck that shit away for two years, run it through some focus groups and some policy ⁓ you know ⁓ engines, some policy think tanks, come up with a better name, come up with an actual proposal. That makes sense given what you're talking about, because what you're talking about makes a ton of sense. Right? Taking those tasks away from the police results in people not getting kicked out of their house because some bullshit charge was written up about them and they're living in public housing, you know, and taking care of their mentally ill adult son. And now they're homeless, right? This thing you want to accomplish is a net good for society, and you're wrapping it in just a Derek Peterson: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: This thing you want to accomplish is a net good for society, and you're wrapping it in just ⁓ fucking rotten lettuce shit leaf and presenting it to people as though it's a delicious burger. And everybody sees it for what it is. Okay? So shut the fuck up. Do some work and get your policy right. And in the meantime, go hard on universal healthcare, 'cause that shit works, and go hard on housing reform, go hard on climate change and un and union protections. But shut the fuck up on defund the police. fucking rotten lettuce shit leaf and presenting it to people as though it's a delicious burger. And everybody sees it for what it is. Okay? So shut the fuck up. Do some work and get your policy right. And in the meantime, go hard on universal healthcare, 'cause that shit works, and go hard on housing reform, go hard on climate change and un and union protections. But shut the fuck up on defund the police. Derek Peterson: Could not agree more. And if there is one thing that is more clear than anything in politics, it's that Democrats have no fucking idea how to market themselves and Republicans are just like ⁓ on a different platform when it comes to pandering to their base. They know exactly how to phrase things. Dude, Fox News how knows how to spin a dude, I could not think of the shit that Fox News comes up with. to ways they spin stories and until I hear it and I'm like, ⁓ my God, that's insane. And it's also fucking brilliant. It's like whoever whoever found a way to think that through and like c came up with that that fast, I'm like, that is a smart human being because they just reframed something that should not be reframed at all, should be called what it is, into something that looks like it's terrible for the Democrats. And so I like Elwyn: And it's it's amazing to watch it happen in real time. To watch them like put out five different things and then the next day there are only three and then the forty eight hours later there's just one and that's the one. It's and but it's really easy, like it's all fear based, you know. Derek Peterson: It's all for your base. They know how to pander it. And but to be honest, it's like, yeah, Democrats catch up. Like, you know, like we need somebody that is going to fight fire with fire, but with the intention of the good of the people, not ⁓ not for themselves. Elwyn: You know who's you know who's really good? You know who's really good at this shit? The fucking democratic socialists of America. Derek Peterson: Correct. Which is why we're having this conversation today. The bet the people that are the best at at it are the Momdannies, the AOCs, the the Bernies, calling shit what it is and and being good at it. So ⁓ well ⁓ what are we talking about next week, Owen? Elwyn: Yeah, they're really good at it. So we're continuing, right? We're on this kind of left right where we stand politically and where did we come from? ⁓ but we are recording next week, right? And it is July fourth. So you know, we tossed around two things. So which one do you want to sort of keep going back in time? I thought it might be fun to talk about kind of the Reagan era, because I think that was a pretty interesting shift politically and i in how we handled taxation policy and and what this country stood for. a lot of the things we just talked about, or we could kinda go like a July fourth, what what does America mean to you and I? Or that might be fun at the end of all this. Who knows? Derek Peterson: Yeah, I'm all in. Actually it's funny because one of the questions I had written down for today was ⁓ Republicans had to decide whether the future was Reagan Republicans or MAGA Republicans. ⁓ and Democrats may be facing a similar question about moderates versus progressives. Like kind of ⁓ in just my overall thinking of today. So like ⁓ the re Reagan Republican era would be would be interesting, but I think I'm game for either. We'll Elwyn: Let's do let's do Reagan Republicans. I think we had talked before about like doing this for a few weeks and then I think if we went back in time all the way, you know, hit up a couple couple different points in time, go back to the to the revolution. I I I like that era. I I think it's interesting to kind of compare and then talk about like what does what does America mean to Derek? What does America mean to Elwyn? Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: Fucking demagoguery, high high minded bullshit, but it might be fun. Derek Peterson: ⁓ I mean, that's what we do this for. ⁓ And for the for the ten or so people that are now consistently listening to us, ⁓ we'll ⁓ we'll see you next week. Elwyn: We'll see you next week.