Latest / Better Together / From Burnout to Boldness: Rethinking Leadership and Purpose

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From Burnout to Boldness: Rethinking Leadership and Purpose · Better Together

• Meesam curingbusy: Welcome back to the Better Together podcast where real stories meet real businesses. I'm Kelly Sunsvold, co-hosting with my partner in business and life, Sean Sunsvold. Today we're joined by someone whose leadership journey is as powerful as his personal. Corey Dunham is the founder and CEO of Corey Dunham Leadership, where he helps high performing executives move from burnout to boldness. Through his coaching, keynote speaker, and faith-centered leadership approach, Corey helps people reconnect their purpose, realign their values, and lead us with unshakable confidence. If you ever found yourself winning on the outside, but wondering what's missing on the inside, this episode is for you. Corey's not just here to shape strategies, he's here to share transformation. So let's dive in. All right, Corey. Yes, I am here. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do. We'll start there. Sure. Sure. Yeah. I was born at a very young age. I'm kidding. I love saying that. Yeah. No, was born in Chicago, but as a baby, we came over to Michigan. So I mostly grown up in Michigan, the southeastern area of Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, just west of Detroit. And I was pretty quiet, introverted, played some sports, grew up playing the cornet. or the trumpet in school. And I was just quiet on almost everything I did and every sport I participated in. And one of the biggest things I noticed that I just really didn't basically want to be seen or any attention drawn to me. So that's something I've worked through out my life. And I've learned to really get good at whether it's tactics, activities, and different things and supportive roles, but never wanted to be in the front or in the limelight. Yeah. Awesome. It's interesting. I can sort of relate to that. Like just being out front, it's scary, right? And it requires a lot of energy, especially if you're a little bit of an introvert, you know, in that sense. So, you you talk a lot about helping leaders go from burned out to brilliant is kind of the tagline there. And I love that. You know, what led you to that message? Was there a single moment that you kind of figured out this is really it? And what changed after you kind of you got that in place. Yeah, I wish it was a single moment. There were many moments, many influences, many people who have impacted my life and been good examples. And it has taken me, like I think I started my, ⁓ I'm currently 57. So back when I was my young twenties going to Eastern Michigan University, I landed upon this guy named Anthony Robbins at the time in my personal development journey, but now he goes by Tony Robbins. But yeah. Yeah, he rebranded. But that's kind of where it all started. And I have no idea where I saw that unless it was a book in a bookstore. And it just intrigued me. And I think I had some early just glimpses or seeds just to say, hey, Corey, you want to be successful. You want to do some great things in life. So where do you start? Because I certainly wasn't going to ask anybody. And I also bring that up about not asking anybody because I took calculus at Eastern Michigan and I flunked it. I got a D plus. I didn't ask questions because I grew up fearful that I was asking dumb questions and I never wanted to do that. And I didn't understand how life worked and how success works that there's got to be some vulnerability and failure and learning experiences. So I said, I'm never going to be embarrassed or beat up like my other friends in school back in the day or made fun of because I felt like I was just going to die. so even in college, I didn't ask any questions, raise my hand, didn't get any tutoring for calculus. I retook it and I figured. I'm sure I will have picked up some crumbs from the previous class. I did the same thing on the second class. didn't ask questions, didn't raise my hand. And yes, the exact same D plus on it. I determined that that was one point where I said, okay, that's the last time I waste my own money because I didn't have any scholarships. So I wish I had a very small scholarship, but it was the half of a semester or something like that. that was it. So I started to learn at that point in time and become a little more independent, getting out of my shell, learning just how to navigate life and just realize, okay, some of this has got to be on me. I've got to take responsibility. So if we fast forward through life, my dad started our family marketing business back in 1980. And we still have that marketing family marketing business today. So it's 46 years old at this point. And I've, I've been a part of it. since my junior or senior year in high school, which was graduated in 1986. So that was 40 years ago, which is hard to believe. I feel like I'm like 112 years old or something. I feel like I should feel like that. But it's like, oh my gosh. So that's been a long time. And I've learned mostly through that business, our marketing business, where I started off as an employee. doing all kinds of, you know, running errands, all kinds of things to doing some things marketing and graphic design wise, and then getting into management leadership and then finally co-owning it with my dad. then, and currently I have, let me see. Yeah, currently about three years ago, I started my executive leadership coaching services when I had some challenges in life and I really reflected on, okay, what do I, I feel God is calling me to do and what is impactful? rather than sitting behind a computer all the time with my quiet, reserved, introverted self. Because I can get comfortable there, but I realize I don't think God's calling me to sit behind a computer all the time. I feel like he wants me to be on bigger platforms, bigger stages, if you will. So in these last three years, I've just, yep, let me hang my shingle out and say, yep, I'm an executive leadership coach. Because I've had 30 years, 40 years of learning. from all of these other executives and all different sizes of companies, from solopreneurs and startups to companies that are doing tens of millions or a hundred million dollars a year. Basically, of the biggest things, just as a quick thing, one of the biggest things I noticed is that they were all people. They were all these people we're dealing with and just sound principles of either financial or marketing or business development. So a lot of different influences throughout life. And just real quickly too, I've... currently been married 26 years as of August. 26 years and I have three young adult kids who are still living in our house, but they all, they work, they all go to college and they have their social lives too. Nice, nice. Yeah. It sounds like a busy, a busy world, but honestly, like one of the things that you just said was that all the people that you worked with, you had to kind of back up and throw people. Like they come with those human elements, which, you know, good, bad, ugly, all the things, but. Many people hear executive codes and they think like performance reviews or time management hacks or, but your work goes a lot deeper than that. And I remember that was something we talked about in our intro call. What does it really mean to lead with alignment and legacy and how is this different than just leading for results? Yeah, I see that it's part of my journey, a huge part of my journey. And one of the biggest things I see with people and now because it's our culture, Is that the biggest thing that's pushed out there, if you're watching YouTube and Tik Tok and just about everybody is on social media, the unending scroll and all you see pretty much are numbers out there. How many millions can you make this next month or do this hack or do this or that? And I believe those things do work for a 10,000th of 1 % in most cases, because not everybody's running, you know, their lives aren't the same. They're stressors, their family, the things they're doing in their life, their health. There's so many different areas in your life that need to be considered. And I only had my financial area considered. Ooh, I want to be a millionaire. Pick me, pick me. And that's, and that's the only thing I thought of. So I was always chasing that dollar. And after doing that for over 20 years, and then starting my family, making sure the bills are paid and being conservative and how I, um, and reserved how I spent money and how much we saved and just to make sure our family was taken care of. And that was my biggest thing. So I was very risk averse and I always. actually had a filter that I would look at things out of fear instead of through my faith or through God's strength and power, which is who I am, that I would look out of fear and I would really put all my energy and time into that filter. So I think when it comes to, you know, a lot of people out there, it's just how we're influenced in our environment, but I think people aren't taking care of themselves. And as one of my buddies who works in a high school, he said, and especially with all of these our smartphones started to come along and I think that was 2007 when smartphones really, I believe when they came into being pretty much. But he realized around that time, he said, wow, it's pretty crazy. Back when we grew up in these are 90s, we had space and time away and a break from always being on. So we had pretty much a school life, maybe an afterschool event, and then our families and our communities, pretty few things. And then we could go to bed, read a book, watch TV, and you're pretty much done. So your peace of mind, your mental health was there. But now everybody's pretty much always on. That is for sure. As soon as you wake up, it's like your phone's going off. You've got a million emails. mean, there's not... I was talking with my daughter yesterday and we were talking about like, you know, she was saying like, I don't think that 40 hours is what humans are supposed to be doing. And I said that, and that doesn't include commute, you know? Like some people have... you know, an hour, you know, even 30 minutes. I mean, that's an extra, you know, hour or two taken out of your day just for commute. So yeah, that can really play to that as well. One of the things you were talking about, you know, as you were walking through that is, you know, growing your family and just kind of living in this, you know, being risk averse and almost fearful. Right. And one of the things I've seen that you said is that fear doesn't have to be eliminated. It can be transformed into purpose. And I That's such a focused statement. think it's very, very powerful in that sense. How can leaders recognize when fear is running their life versus, and what does it take to kind of make that shift? Yeah, I think one of the first things that has helped me the most is by having trusted people, whether that's a guide, a mentor, a friend, and a coach. I heavily believe in coaching because I've had a lot of coaches and people who I never thought would be a coach. Sometimes those people were my mother-in-law. Sometimes even my sister's boyfriend back in the day when I was younger. And either referencing, being respectful to women or, you know, come to church, get some good values instilled in you. All different types of people. And I think I'm blessed and fortunate in that way. Whereas I feel the first part of my life, I didn't really listen to the advice I was getting, but over time it was, I think, planted in me and then I could see the value over time. And then it was a matter of me. Matter of me taking the responsibility and the accountability to do what it takes. They actually repeat your question again So just kind of wanting to understand like how does somebody you know a leader for example that you know Maybe they're in that situation of just being a little bit fearful of and fears kind of running their life versus having the freedom and the I don't call it aggressiveness but you know that that autonomy to go like hey I'm I'm gonna get past this like, know, how do they change it from fear running their life to turning it into something that drives them forward. Yeah, that's, it's funny too, because I was just at a meeting this morning talking to another person who is an executive, but they're also looking now to purchase the business that they're an executive of, and they're kind of scared of it. They're afraid because, know, just the, as I call the path of unknowing, and really don't know, or it's a faith walk. And I said, you'll be okay. Just learn to just keep taking steps, whether they're big steps or small steps. But just keep moving and learning as you go. And I've heard the analogy of entrepreneur is pretty much jumping off a cliff and then building the airplane on the way down. Yes. And you'll figure it out somehow. But when I told her too, I said, yes. She said, well, if I do get the business and it transfers properly, it's going to happen fast. I said, well, there is value to doing things slow, but if also there's value. when you do things quickly. Number one, like I told her, I said that when I started doing speaking over the last few, I've spoken well before last few years, but I really focused, hey, I can be a speaker. I can be an executive leadership coach. But as I focus, it took me a year and a half to do live videos on LinkedIn to finally get over the anxiety of just the thought of doing something with my face showing or me talking. Cause I was so self-conscious, so self- not self-centered, I guess was self-centered, focused on myself. And it's really important, I think, as I said earlier, to find a trusted guide and a coach many times is I feel one of the better investments you could make because their goal is to, they have to get results and impact. That's their goal is not just to spend so many hours a week with you, like a typical maybe employee mindset would be. But they've been through many of the experiences, many of the headaches, many of the trial and errors. and have navigated their way through. And they're not perfect by any means. I hope we're all in this journey of continual self-improvement, but they can shortcut a lot of the, ⁓ I've got questions on this or this feels uncertain. They can help you out to say, yep, I've kind of made it through that. And that's kind of how I look at Jesus coming down to earth or word in the flesh, giving us the example. And he was tempted and he had many different things go on that didn't work out exactly probably like he wanted but he would meet people face to face and one-on-one because they were important so huge thing in there is relationships not perfection but relationships yeah I think coaching is such a great tool right you know we've had our coaches ourselves in growing a business and they just help you see things in a different light I think that's really one of the best things about it is because you're so stuck in I don't call it myopic, right? But it kind of is, right? You're stuck in your view. That's only what you see. what's great about a coach is they'll come in and they'll understand where you're at, but they're also going to start showing you, you know, here's how it could be different, right? Well, have you thought about this? Did you look at this option? And the minute they start giving you those options and you start seeing things from all those different perspectives, I feel like fear kind of goes away because you've been shown all those different things. Yeah, I totally agree with that. As I've used in analogy and I've heard other ones too that if you have an issue with your spleen or your gallbladder, it's hard to operate on your own self in everything you do. There's, as you say, your points of view, your perspective is not 100 % similar to why we have on our side mirrors on our cars and especially on the other side that's skewed so you can see a little bit more, but know, objects in mirror are closer than they appear. So it's a little skewed, even if you do have some other tools or implements, but other people can sometimes see. And I guess another analogy is that, that I've heard is that when you're inside of a pickle jar, when you're inside the pickle jar, it's hard to see what the label on the outside is. So when we're in this bubble, we call life or our own perspective and beliefs and mindset. It's hard to see from the outside of that. Yeah. We get a little, we get a little blinded to what, ⁓ kind of like what we've been. around what we're seeing and it's really hard to sometimes see what we look like to others or how we're coming off or our tone or our ideas. Just having an extra person there to just, for lack of a better word, I mean, I know it's a little redundant, but coach, coach us through it. So we obviously, you know, we help a lot of small businesses. We've talked to a lot of founders, small businesses, small business owners. burnout is a constant recurring theme that we hear. What advice do you have for entrepreneurs who are in the messy middle? They're not quite burned out, but they're definitely running on fumes. Yeah, there's several things that can be done. But one of the biggest things is to, you need to slow down or stop, stop. And I don't know why this popped in my head this morning, but just thinking about talking about leadership, just the whole idea of stop, drop, and rule. I'm like, that can be appropriate for many things. Maybe not the drop and roll, but obviously that's for a fire. But stopping with what you're doing, because we're always in this go, go, go. And that's either physically in our time space or go, go, go again with the endless scrolling and constant input and intake of things. There's no time to process. And that's one of the things I've had to remove from my life. There's, a couple of different things. There's things you need to do to become successful and there's things you need to remove. out of your life to become successful, to create some of that space. I know I used to watch a ton of YouTube, listen to audios, read books, and I, at this point, I've narrowed for the most part down. don't hardly watch any YouTube videos. I mostly read books, read my Bible, and I have some other smaller inputs, but I've got to be able to process just those things that I'm reading. And if we, for the most part, you could take almost any... business book, and really the Bible would be the best one, but if you took any business book out there and just took three concepts out of it and became an expert at those three concepts, you could probably have wild success in so many different ways, not just financially, but maybe time, freedom, and peace of mind, and some certainty. But I think just really clearing out lot of the clutter that's going on in our lives today. And the problem with that is, of course, these tech giants. These marketing giants, these retail giants pay millions and billions to figure out how can we get human beings to stay on our content, to stay on our media, to give them that urge that they have to come back, that they have to stay attached to their phones. And so if you don't realize that that's what's going on with you, so as an example for me, I pretty much, when I go home, I have my phone on the counter. I don't have it next to me. And I 99 % of the time pretty much have it turned off. So there'll be certain times during the day where I'll go back and check it or okay, this is a good break. Let me just check it for a few minutes. I'll have a break to do this or check email or whatever it is. So really having boundaries and setting some time aside just to have nothing going on. So your mind can speak to itself and resolve some things. And you'll be surprised the things you come up with like, why didn't I think of some of this stuff earlier? It's so simple. Yeah, it's really easy to get burned out, not with necessarily what we're doing. if we're an entrepreneur, we're starting a business, maybe there's overwhelm with having to wear all the hats, but it's all the external noise too. For instance, yesterday, or no, it was a couple days ago, I got an email alert that said that our printer had told our Alexa to tell Amazon to order magenta ink. And I'm just like. Wait a second, how did this happen? Are printers talking to Amazon now? ⁓ But, know, and Sean's like, well, it's something with the wifi and all that other stuff. And I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, like it just, there's so much happening around us that we, you know, you mentioned the distraction of YouTube. For me, it's TikTok, you know, and we run, you know, we manage a lot of social media accounts. So staying up on all that is part of our. of our job, but it does it, you know, just from the individual boundary of scroll time for clients or working on projects for clients and building our business versus like, Hey, what am I doing? And I'm just sitting here and I'm being bored and I'm just doom scrolling, know, pick up a book, you know, just calm your mind. And sometimes that can go a lot further and kind of clear out the noise to allow what you were talking about, that creativity of Wow, I got rid of the noise and now I have this idea that I didn't have before. And so I think you're right on in that advice. If we can just calm down sometimes and shut out the noise. Yeah. And I feel it starts and many times can end up in our heads. What's going on up there? Cause that's the control center. And if we don't get that control center right, everything else is following along. Yeah. You're talking about the control center of the mind, right? ⁓ And I can remember this personally, like one of the first times when I worked with a coach, it was a little bit overwhelming, right? Because they're throwing so much at you, right? And they're asking you to do a lot of stuff, you know, in those first few weeks. And I know for me, it felt a little bit like just getting through it and I just had to survive it. But one of the things you talk about is growing with intention. you know, it's a great statement. I'm curious, how do you personally stay grounded and intentional? as your business scales and as you're kind of on that edge and trying to maybe fight that feeling of survival in that. Yeah, the that's taking me a long time. I think I've gotten it at times and I felt okay. I feel pretty good about my intention and where things are going. However, then I get some gut check either from my wife or something in business or the economy. Yeah, right. Yeah. My wife, it's pretty amazing when I've looked back at some of the best choices I've made. It's when I've consulted with my wife. And it's like, ⁓ my gosh. And sometimes she'll just throw in one minute worth of, why don't you do this or do that? I'm like, wow. And then I actually take action on it it works. works. so my wife has a lot of wisdom. And for me, I think just really being intentional is not just the control center of your head. And that's kind of where I started. I feel and have learned at least for my way of doing things now is really going downward or towards your heart. What do you really want to see more of in life? What types of experiences, what type of impact do you have? And because I'm a Christian, part of that, it has nothing to with my actions to get salvation. I can do nothing to earn that. The scripture talks about us serving other people, loving our neighbors, we love ourselves, those types of things. So I've been a very service-oriented person in my quietness and in my supportive role. And I can see, ⁓ there's a hole, there's a hole there. I don't want to be the leader, but I can fill those holes. And I'm kind like a linebacker, you know, in the... linemen on football. There's a hole there. I'm a linebacker. I fill those holes. But that's how was for most of my life. And I never really considered my heart or what my, whether it's my soul, purpose, whatever it is, or how God is speaking to me. And that's where I had to really look back in the last few years and reflect on, okay, God, what am I truly passionate about? Because I'm the, what do they say, the master of none and the jack of all trades, the master of none. That's kind how I was. Yeah. So very capable, there's so many different things, but then that fills up your time. As I was talking to another business owner about that too, that those things fill up your time, but it's not maybe your God-given purpose or the impact you need to create. So it's important to look at what truly gives you passion. And I feel through scripture and prayer and meditating on it, that looking to God and what He has for me and what He wants for my life. most of my life through my forties, I was like, ⁓ I don't want God to take control over my life. I don't want to do that boring stuff. don't want to be, you know, I don't want to, I almost said a nun. don't want to be a nun. I think you're clear from that. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But some type of missionary, which at the time, you know, whatever, I didn't, didn't look as appealing to me. But the coolest part is, is in scripture talks about too, that God doesn't call everybody to be a pastor. He doesn't call everybody to be a teacher or this or that, but wherever you are, that can be your ministry. And I think that's where I hit. people in the certain areas of life of like I'm doing an assertive introvert webinar tomorrow where you can have calm clarity and without changing yourself. So I'm doing that because like I said, I really resonate with the introverts. I also did this talk back in Minneapolis for fractional professionals and it really resonated with several people but I could still see they didn't quite have the belief in themselves. But yeah, but as I've reflected on a lot of things that I resonate with, I used to look at those things as weaknesses. And I was like, Ooh, I don't want to share any of this with people. And over time through coaches and through me just learning and stepping, stepping forward, I realized, wow, these are things a lot of people are dealing with, including a lot of people have faith, but they don't want to share it at work or they don't know how to show more of their faith because they feel they're going to get be canceled, which I felt for 30, 30 plus years, which is why I never talked about my faith for the most part, except for two years ago. And I was roughly 55 years old, uh, started wearing a cross. Um, and then finding out, wow, I'm Instead of being canceled, I'm getting a lot of positive encouragement. Hey, we need more of that. We need that kind of thing. And Corey, how do you have the courage to talk about your faith? I'm 56. I just started doing it. I have no idea how I got this faith except God was working in me. But yeah, the first 55 years or whatever, it's like I was focusing on those fears still. And I was like, I got to get real and I want to be real and I want to have God present. Because I look at that as a Super Bowl winning team that wins every year. And I use the example of, if I'm on God's team, Super Bowl, there's one second left on the clock. And if we're down by 500 points, if God wants to win it, and it's to His will, we're going to win that game in one second, somehow 500 points down. But there's also times, too, in life that we could look like we're going to win by 20 points on God's team, but we may lose that game. And once again, we don't know God's will and what His purpose is and everything, but God can use that and use anything to His good and His purpose. So that's what I try to align with now, which I feel is my true purpose, is what God wants me to do in this life. I've already accepted Jesus as my Savior. Also, salvation is taken care of there. I don't have to do, I can't do a single thing to earn that salvation, but definitely living on this planet, interacting with people and serving people is one of the biggest things that we're commanded to do is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing all that. You know, and just sharing that with our audience. ⁓ excuse me. One of the... things you talked about there is, you know, working with is, you know, being content where you are. Right. And I think as leaders, we're always looking at what's the next goalpost, right? We're always looking at what's the next thing. What's the next thing? How do we grow this? And I think there's something to be said because some of the best leaders I have ever met are people who are quick and able to accept, here's where we are right now. They don't fight it. They don't, you know, they don't argue against it. They don't spend a lot of time trying to deny that this is where they are. Right. Like they're very. aware of their current situation for how do you how do you help people kind of be more aware of their current situation or accept that current situation in your coaching? Yeah, that that takes some time and everybody's different. I know when I started developing out coaching frameworks and practices and everything for me, it's kind of challenging because I really want to get hyper focused on the person I'm working with and there's no one size fits all. And even if there was tomorrow is going to be different than what yesterday was. You know, we have seasons in life, seasons in our health, our businesses, all kinds of things are are epiphanies or realizations. So not everybody's in the same place, but one of the biggest things I say that helps people is if they're willing to journal and do that on a regular basis, they will start to create their own aha moments and awarenesses. And I've tried it a couple different ways. It can work different ways for different people, but I feel the best way is to actually writing it down using a pen and paper or in a Journal and writing it down because it slows your mind down slows your body down and it really gets you inside of what's happening or what answers you're coming out with when you have certain prompts or questions that you're answering I mean, I've also used a Google spreadsheet. Those are searchable. You can type those in but they're not like I like physical books And things but I knew that's I had issues with some of my journals. I'm like, where did I put that? Is that in the car? Is that at home? Is it at work? So I go back and forth and that's the other thing too is to be flexible with yourself. Slow down, but be flexible. Cause in this season, this may have motivated you. And I've, there've been times where I've held on to a goal for too long and it no longer motivated me. And I didn't realize I had permission to change that goal or change the purpose and direction of my life. So being flexible and adaptable and easy on yourself. Cause we all tend, like you said, as entrepreneurs and as people in general, we all tend to be extremely hard on ourselves. And we don't need that. We got the world to deal with. They'll give us some of that. But being kind to ourself and then reflecting back in my case that God is my creator. I am God's and that's my identity. That's the image I was created from is the image of God. And so there's a lot there and it's hard to even imagine sometimes to even understand what that even means. But just the fact that as people have said, God don't create no junk. You know, we're all intentionally made and on purpose. And even if you look at statistics, the chances of being born, I don't know the exact number, but I'm like, hold a cow. The fact that we're born is such a miracle that we do have purpose. And part of that, part of our life is to find what is that purpose? What does God want to work in us and also through us to serve other people? Yeah. You know, you've had a lot of experience, like, obviously, like, you know, if anyone looks at your LinkedIn, they'll see you were at 40 years at the marketing company that you said you started with that. a teenager, ⁓ you know, you're not 80 years old. Just 112, like I said, right? I know, right? So, you know, this podcast is called Better Together and it's about, you know, shared growth. know, Sean and I have been on this journey now for five years, actually six years now at this point. And so who in your journey has helped you feel better together on your journey and how has community shaped your leadership? Yeah, it's One of the biggest pieces I would say is my wife, but also too on the flip side of that, as I just recently discovered that my wife was an idol of mine. So I was focusing on her more than I was really looking toward God and trusting in God. Thinking that, if our relationship is good, we're 26 years in marriage, it will be good to go because we're almost riding off into the sunset with our age. She's younger than me. But then I realized after a couple of years ago that, ooh, some of our relationship issues and things started happening. And I think that's just when women are in their forties to f****g and pretty much the menopause or perimenopause range, but how it showed up. And that's my opinion. I'm not saying I'm perfect because my wife is wonderful and she's awesome, but just some changes happen. Hormonal imbalance, if you will. And I didn't understand it, didn't know what was going on. But I, over time, I was frustrated, challenged, but then I started talking like with my sister, who's a therapist, some other ladies who could understand better and say, oh, this sounds like this. This sounds like potentially menopause. And what I found, many women, after I found for a while, there's like 75 potential symptoms from menopause. And I learned there's up to 300. So I have no idea how many there are. Yes. And that's actually what most women say when I actually share that with them. Their mouth is open and they say, wow. And I say, yeah, it's hard to tell. And it's no different than when we're teenagers. And we have, all of us have our hormonal changes. And then in this other time when women no longer are child producing, the Nors Hormone shift again. It's not a bad thing, it just is. And if us men understand better and women understand better and the medical profession starts to put more resources toward women in this age range of 42 to 52. So there's a lot of things going against women at this point in their life. misunderstood in many different cases and unsupported. So I think that's a huge problem. And so if we're taking care of ⁓ each individual in the society, there is a hole, but we also have to look at what's really happening with people. So the relationships, think my wife has been one of the biggest influences raising our family. She's created certainty for me just that she's taken care of the home for the most part, even though she's been in the workforce, initially part-time and then now full-time as a speech therapist, does a great job at everything she's done. Then different mentors and coaches that I've had in business. And my one business coach, he has a great faith. He's great at business, great at relationships, very rare of a person who I found like him. But then there's other people in other areas of life that have maybe they're very gifted and strong in one or two areas that have helped me along the way. So I've tried to learn from pretty much everyone and tried to figure out, who do I want to really be around and be focused on? my environment because those people are going to affect me the most. Whoever's around me, language, their mindset, their thoughts. So I've tried to really handpick over the last, a couple of years, who is in my environment most of the time to support me. there's been a lot. So it's hard to say one person, but the biggest influence is probably is scripture, going into church, being around like-minded believers and keeping that as my focal point, number one. And then the rest of the reek revolves around that instead of the opposite. Well, this has been a fantastic conversation, Corey. How can people find you and learn more about, you know, your work and what you do? Yeah. One of the best way or few of the best ways are LinkedIn is where I'm at at this moment in time. So Corey Dunham, executive leadership coach. And then at this point, my picture is kind of a purple and greenish color. And I've got my cross, it's cross showing. So you can't miss me. And then also to phone number 734-219-521- And also, I have a podcast called unapologeticleadershippodcast.com. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Corey, thanks for your time today. Thanks for being here and being a guest on our show. This was a fantastic conversation and I look forward to having another one with you in the future. All right. Well, thank you both, Kelly and Sean. Thank you. Thank you.