Latest / IB Unplugged / Shared Humanity & Future-Ready Learning w/ Haif Bannayan

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Shared Humanity & Future-Ready Learning w/ Haif Bannayan · IB Unplugged

0:00
Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP
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educators that tackles your submitted challenges and questions
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by connecting you with experts and peers who share their ideas and stories
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from real classrooms.
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Whether you're a seasoned educator or new to the IB world, each bi weekly episode
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and guest aims to equip you with practical tips and positive inspiration,
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helping you teach with more confidence, creativity, and joy.
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So whether you're walking your dog or commuting to school, hit play and join
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a community of educators ready to learn, laugh, and thrive in your IB journey.
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Hi everybody, and welcome to IB Unplugged, a special episode
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because we're joining you from South Africa.
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We are at the American International School in Johannesburg.
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Part of the African Education Festival, where we've had a chance to speak with
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lots of really cool people.
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And today we're bringing an episode to you with Haif Bannayan.
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He's the global Director of Business Development at the IB and responsible
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for expanding the IB across the globe, both to interested and existing schools.
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So really wanted to take a chance to talk with him about
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why is that such an important thing?
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Why is it so important that we can get this sort of IB philosophy
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IB education system out, across the globe a little bit more?
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Yeah. And he's had so many great points.
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We're going to be talking about this idea of shared humanity
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and what is a future ready student.
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And I think that when we talk with people from the IBO,
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I just love that it shows that it's it's an organization full of a lot of humans
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that really care about what the IBO is striving for.
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It's not a big machine with a bunch of kind of,
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people just
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cogs in it who are just thinking about the business side of it.
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But it's things that they're thinking
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really critically about and bringing their all of their own unique
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backgrounds and experiences too. And I love the topic.
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I love how much that the IBO actually does care about the development
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of the students, not just the academic side of what this curriculum actually is.
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So yeah, I'm really happy to be able to do this.
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Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun.
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So for those of you who got into education so you could have
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a meaningful impact in the world, not just have some qualified people.
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This episode's got everything for you.
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So we hope you enjoy it.
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And let's get on to the show with Haif Bannayan.
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Hi Haif, welcome to IB Unplugged.
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We're so excited to talk to you,
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especially, in real life here at the African Education Festival.
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Hi, Courtney, hi John, it's really a pleasure to be here with you guys.
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It's very exciting, especially being on this continent and this amazing weather.
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Yeah, right.
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Yeah. Yes, exactly.
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We're enjoying the sunshine.
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So to kick us off,
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I thought that we would be able to give a little bit of background.
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So for everyone who doesn't know Haif works at the IBO, but you have
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had a long journey and a long career that got you to the point here.
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And I was wondering if you could talk about why you, led
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your career into the place where you are now working in international education?
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That's a very good question.
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And if we expect to finish, our education
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with a certain degree and have our career path planned
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for the next 30 years, I think we we should be revise our strategy for that,
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because in my mind, I graduated in chemical engineering,
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worked in industrial, and a master's degree in industrial management,
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worked in the pharmaceutical industry for a while.
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And then I was like, you know what?
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This is nice, but I want something more in the public space. And,
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I'm originally Jordanian.
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I'm now based in the Netherlands, but I'm Jordanian.
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And, back then there was this funny enough, this,
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half Dutch minister of Information communications Technology who was really
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revamping the whole technology space in Jordan and really bringing,
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foreign investment, bringing multi-stakeholder partnerships.
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I was like, yeah, this is exciting.
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I really want to move there.
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And, and if you connect that with education, really, I feel that
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a good education is that one that helps you recognize
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your core competencies as you develop them after university,
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and how you leverage those to transition from one, working space to another.
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I don't particularly believe that one must stick in one career path,
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and I really value the opportunity that I had to change career paths.
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So anyway, cut a long story short.
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I joined the Ministry of ICT.
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And then after that, I was like, okay, I'm
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I wanted to leave that public space, but I still wanted to work in the,
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in the public area to for more public benefit.
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And Her Majesty,
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she was very much focused on technology education,
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and she had many initiatives related to that.
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And, I was invited to lead one of her initiatives, which is called
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the Joy the Education Initiative focus on technology integration in education.
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And after that, she was like, okay, you're done here.
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Now move to Queen Rania Teacher Academy, where I had the pleasure
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to work more closely with education and with teachers.
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And this is where I believe, fundamentally, teachers are the key
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most important thing to really shape the world moving forward.
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And, with our programs that we've introduced in the public space,
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we were able to witness how the classroom environment
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in a typically didactic, very standard kind of,
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how you call it, traditional way of teaching in the public space,
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how that just changed just through the teacher
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training with minimal resources that were in the schools.
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And from then I had the opportunity to meet IB, and,
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I attended one of the, global conferences at IB, and I was like,
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wow, this is amazing seeing all those teachers and the
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how vibrant the education space is and how excited
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those educators were and how much they love IB.
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And I was like, of course, I forgot to mention I'm an IB parent.
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I have two adult kids who have graduated from IB, so I know what IB can do
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and how it what kind of impact it has on young citizens.
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So seeing this, I was like, I want to do this in the Arab world.
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And I launched a conference that's bilingual
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Arabic and English in partnership with IB and also bringing
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obviously Queen Rania Teacher Academy, kind of all that educational,
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offering that we can deliver
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and we deliver that for a while at,
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in the Middle East.
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And that led to closer ties with, with IB.
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And then the opportunity came
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to apply for a position for global director of business development.
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I was like, okay, I'm gonna apply.
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This is it.
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Seven years later, I'm here.
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And yeah, so it's been fantastic.
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What an incredible journey, really.
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And I loved listening to that story there.
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And I think one thing that stuck to me and I think is probably just because I'm
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a teacher, you said teachers here, that's kind of the main, the main place
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where we can really move things forward in our entire global society.
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And I've witnessed firsthand.
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Honestly, it's I've seen teachers who just by being guided with some key,
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like really good professional development opportunities,
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they've turned around the classrooms. In many cases, key
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concepts in science, in math, in languages that they were not able to engage
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the students with just by getting those they have turned around the classrooms.
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I've also had the chance to work with educators,
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in, in areas where we had crisis.
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For example, when we had the Syrian refugee crisis,
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we had classrooms that had more than 50 students.
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Many of those students were traumatized and, teachers were unable to deal with it.
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So it was we introduced this program to help them manage.
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So it's not always,
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and that's the thing, also a stigma, but, but the IB people
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always expect that IB schools have to be those big grandiose buildings.
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Yes, we are present in a lot of those, but it's really about the teaching.
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It's really about the teachers.
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And less about those kind of resources, to be honest.
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You highlighting a lot of like the, the purpose of education, right?
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It kind of goes beyond, you know, these specific
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aspects of chemistry or biology or English, whatever it might be.
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But it sounds like you're really drawing into these things
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where education has a purpose in, in a wider reach.
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Was there a specific moment?
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And maybe this was one of them, where you said, like,
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this is the purpose of education.
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This is like why it's so important. Other than education
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being a basic right.
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I also think it's, it's like a passport.
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It's a world passport.
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Like how you see passports around the world with different nationalities.
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Can open certain doors for you, like certain passports,
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how they're classified that you can go without visas with this passport.
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This passport. You need to have this type of visas.
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Good quality education
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unlocks so many opportunities around the world.
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And this is how you become a global citizen.
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I don't,
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I mean, I love
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when students, leave their countries, go back and serve their countries.
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But I also like the fact that to think of myself
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as a global citizen, that I'm able to function,
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in a non siloed manner.
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I studied abroad, but I went back to Jordan.
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I worked until I was 50, in Jordan.
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And then I was like, you know what, it's time for me to serve other causes.
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And I think it's my education coupled with my,
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with my experience that helped do that.
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And I think this is what a good education does.
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You know, when we moved to the Netherlands, my daughter was in MYP
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and she was in the middle year, like she was, I think, grade 7 or 8,
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moved to the Netherlands and
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it was because she was moving from one MYP school to another
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MYP school, it was like plug and play.
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She knows exactly what needs to be done.
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It's not hard to orient.
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She just focused on her flourishing.
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Yeah, she focused on making connections, understanding
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the countries she's working with and making good, good relations.
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And you know that both my kids have studied
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the Dutch universities and are doing fine.
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So I think this is what's important about education.
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In this episode
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we're really going to be focusing on this concept of what should education
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look like in this idea of shared humanity, really connecting to the global,
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the African education festival that we're at right now,
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but also this idea of what is future ready learning.
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And I'm wondering if you were walking into a classroom today
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and you felt like this is future ready learning, what would that classroom
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look like to you? Good question. I mean,
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I haven't
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been in many classrooms as a teacher, but what I would like to see
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is diverse representation in the classroom.
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And I like to see
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different modes of engagement,
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but focused on a common goal.
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And I think that is maybe the essence of shared humanity.
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Where you have like this, it's about reciprocity.
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It's about, doing things with each other,
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capitalizing on different strengths
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and filling in the gaps
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where there are some weaknesses, I suppose.
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Not everybody learns the same way.
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And that cookie cutter approach is long gone.
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But I think it's even more applicable now.
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And that's a learning that we at IB are looking at
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and to say going into different countries and working with different communities,
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it's not going to be the same across, on a global level.
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And it needs to be contextual.
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It needs to be closer to the community.
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It needs to be relevant to the governments
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and what's the direction of that community and build on that.
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Yeah. It's really interesting.
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Do you have any
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examples of any kind of countries where you felt like there was this really,
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important contextual change that the IB has had to make
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that you've been working with?
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The essence of it is collaborative, collaboration.
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So, like, we recently launched a project in Bahrain.
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And they came to us and they're like, you know, we're looking
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to pilot in one boys school and one girls school.
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We want to do the diploma.
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And so we had several meetings with them and then looking at where they are,
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we're like you know guys maybe diploma is not the best place to start
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because there is the way you teach.
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And government is very different from how IB does things.
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And that quick shift from
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middle schools to the high school into the diploma.
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Might be a little bit of a challenge for this teacher.
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Plus, they predominantly teach in Arabic.
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They teach English, but they predominantly teach in Arabic.
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The educators teach in Arabic.
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So I think there was a quite a journey that we need to work with them on.
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That's why, for example, we said let's start with with MYP
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and maybe you should look for ways to strengthen
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the English competencies for your teachers as well as for your students.
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And once you do, that will transition to the
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diploma and, conversations with a minister.
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He was like, you know, this is great.
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And I don't want two schools only I want eight schools.
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So we ended up, you know..
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Ended up being a sizable pilot.
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You know, it ended up being, you know, eight schools implementing 16 programs.
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So it was just at the beginning of doing that.
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And, so that process is a lot of shifting
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in the minds and how the different governments want to work.
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And we try to meet them where they are.
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Yeah.
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Last year we launched a project in Paraguay and,
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they're like, we don't want the IB programs in our school,
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in our public schools.
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It's basically for affordability, for rolling out.
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But we love the IB pedagogy and we need your help.
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So we developed a program to help them,
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train teachers,
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assess their competencies, assess what is missing.
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And we're currently in the implementation phase of this project.
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So we're really diversifying how we're working with different governments
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and different, community members to meet them where they really want to be.
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Yeah, it's great because now
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if I think back to what you were mentioning
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before with regard to our shared humanity and the reciprocity
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and this idea of like meeting people where they're at,
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I want to dive now into kind of our main segment here,
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which is about that shared humanity, the purpose of education.
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And you kind of alluded to it there
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just a moment ago.
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I wonder if we could draw that out a little bit more.
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What does shared humanity really mean to you?
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I guess
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now, in the context of education today.
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We live in really unprecedented times.
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I mean, when I reflect on the past seven years,
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Covid, wars,
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displacement, refugees, AI.
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So not all that, but
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But you know, there's a lot of technological advancement and I think
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I think governments
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and schools and people are unable to when it comes to technology,
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are unable to filter out what's good and what's not, what works for them
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and what doesn't.
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There's this fear that you find two camps mainly in
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different conversations you find the camp that
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stay away. This is not education.
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And the campus says, oh, we want to be integrated in our education system.
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And I'm like, AI is not new.
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It's a natural evolution
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to the technological development that has been going on for decades right now.
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So I think
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we are with this in mind, or at least that's my personal belief,
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you'll find that there is a stronger need for that personal connection
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among humans.
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Finding that common shared belief,
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the ethics, the empathy, the love,
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the relationships.
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And you find that that is missing.
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So I think, going through all the
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education revolutions around the world, it started with educating with people
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needing their bodies and their muscles, and then went into people
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needing their minds, and the knowledge.
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Now it's the time, I think, that connection between the mind and the heart
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and leading to things where there's empathy, there is love,
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there is understanding, and there is that
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shared beliefs and values.
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So there's an emphasis on that.
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Like people are saying, oh, technology is bad.
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It's bad if you use it in a in the wrong way.
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And, you know, social media is bad.
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If you abuse it, yes, it is. Yeah.
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It's just there.
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It's like you as a human being, you know,
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the Ten Commandments, thou shalt not steal.
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If you don't do this in the physical space,
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don't do it in the virtual space.
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So it's really applying those, constructs.
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And in my view, this is humanity is really finding that space where
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I live freely.
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But my freedom stops when it starts imposing on yours.
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And I think, and it should be the same.
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And then we can
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we can merge when we have common beliefs and common values
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and that kind of empathy, working with each other.
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And I think that's the essence of developing those global citizens
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who are critical thinkers, who can see that for them.
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You can't stay with your kids and say, do this and don't do that.
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What you need to do is build that
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competency in their minds
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to differentiate between what is good, what works,
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what should, what they should do, and what aligns with their human values.
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I think there has been a diversion
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from the human values a little bit from the empathy, and with the world
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that's happening around, and sometimes we find it hard to explain
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basic politics to our kids with what's going on.
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Yeah.
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So it's how do you do that,
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applying that moral compass, I suppose.
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As I'm listening to you here,
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I'm constantly thinking of the context as well,
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because I'm hearing these things that I really agree with.
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And I love the idea that let's connect with the ethical considerations,
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to love the relationships of of what's going to be important there.
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And I especially love what you just said, where, you know,
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my freedom stops being my freedom when it imposes on somebody else's.
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And I'm wondering, you know, these can be very contextual,
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specific ideas sometimes.
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And I guess is it is it kind of a teasing out if like,
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where is the part that I guess the IB, or our international approach
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to education isn't necessarily contextually specific.
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It is something that we can all share.
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Yet at the same time, recognizing the specific contextual values
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that might be present in, for example, here in South Africa
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or in I don't know, Austria or in Japan or something like this.
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Is this the idea?
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If I understand your question correctly, it's more or less the idea.
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I think it's with some emphasis
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on having that compass inside you
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to be able to sense what
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really works with different contexts and what doesn't.
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Because as we, as you travel around the world,
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and if you're preparing the students for a global world,
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you need them to understand, a little bit
20:17
about the context where they're going and how they can navigate
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social norms, political norms, how to act, how to behave.
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And it's easier said than done. Right?
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But I think if you teach them that kind of logic,
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that kind an empathy to really be able to navigate
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and really sense the room where they are in,
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it becomes easier and makes you avoid putting yourself
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or them putting themselves in awkward situations.
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I'm hearing IB learner profile now.
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Yeah, right. All that coming in my head right now, right?
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That knowledgeable I'm thinking and caring and reflective.
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You know, all that stuff is now where it's like I don't necessarily,
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yes, If I had the time or if I'm able to, I want to research birthplace first.
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I might not have that.
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But if I've developed those learner profile
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attributes, I'm able to present myself in a way that can be respectful,
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that can be open, that can learn from other people and grow together.
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Absolutely.
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And I think,
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I mean, I visited a lot of schools and you hear a lot of students
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blurting out the learner profile.
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And I'm like, to what extent do they know
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what they're saying and to what extent they experience it?
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And I think maybe, and that's just coming out right now
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as a thought process, maybe help them live out those attributes, help them
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figure out, feel how
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they would apply that in that global settings.
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Then it becomes more than just an idea.
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It becomes more, this is how I'm a thinker.
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This is how I'm reflective.
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This is how, I'm an empath.
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This is, you know, like the understanding or like when they do something and,
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like, I remember,
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like, I come from a very traditional education in my schooling.
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And, I remember when it the first time I did a career jump,
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a friend of mine came to me is like, man, you're such a risk taker.
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And I was like, was that a risk?
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I honestly, you know, in my adult, I didn't even think it was a risk.
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It was instinctively it was the right thing to do. Yeah.
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But now when I reflect when he mentioned that,
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I was like, oh yeah, that is a risk, I did take a risk.
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So I think people need to understand that
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and experience it more to grounded in their
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in their brain.
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Exactly. Something that
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keeps coming up in the different things that you're saying.
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And something that when,
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we were talking about a question of what comes up regularly
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in all of these conversations that we have in the podcast,
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the immediate reaction was like, oh, AI as mentioned all the time,
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but something that I think a bit deeper is I feel like in the last couple of years
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we've been talking about like the word human.
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I feel like comes up way more now, I guess, because it's always
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in opposition of AI.
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But it's something that I think was taken for granted.
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A lot of like, like what?
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Not what does it mean to be human,
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but what does it mean in education to be
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thinking about humanizing pedagogy
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or the human development of these students?
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And I think, like the shared humanity of you were talking about,
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empathy, you're talking about ethics.
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And then I guess it turns into a global responsibility
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putting all of these things together,
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in some ways, I think a lot of people think,
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oh, maybe it's up to the parents to teach values or things like that.
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Why do you think it's so critical for schools to be teaching
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and preparing students for a shared humanity, like the schools responsibility?
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Why is that so important and critical?
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I love that question.
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First of all, I cannot assume that the parents know all this.
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That's number one.
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Second, kids spend
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eight hours a day of their day at work in the school.
24:16
Yeah.
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And many parents now are working, so they come back
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and they do a lot of that.
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They have to look after the house and all that.
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They don't have enough time to spend with the kids.
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Obviously, when you’re growing up, you try as much as possible
24:36
to put in these humanistic values in there. But,
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let's say the parents should be putting the,
24:45
the essence, the grain, the initial grain of it.
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But then the school needs to nurture that and grow it.
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Because that's what kids spend a lot of time.
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And that's why you find a lot of kids at a young age.
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They idolize their teachers. Right?
24:59
And because they see them as equivalent to their parents and they listen to them.
25:05
So the teachers impact on a student cannot be undermined.
25:10
And that's why it's,
25:12
it's it's
25:13
like you can't tell your son or your, your child
25:17
the house needs to be clean, but outside in the street,
25:19
it can be dirty because it's not ours.
25:21
It's it's that, you know, you teach them
25:23
something at home,
25:25
they have to see the continuum.
25:26
They have to apply it in the relationships,
25:29
in their friendships, in the schools, with their teachers, in their careers.
25:33
And then it has to continue.
25:35
Otherwise it doesn't come across as good education.
25:39
So I really feel that,
25:42
it's a collaborative approach.
25:44
Obviously it can't. We cannot.
25:47
It's not only the schools, but the schools have a major
25:51
role in this, I think.
25:55
Are you an IB educator wanting
25:57
to improve your practice and needing a just a bit more support getting there?
26:01
Have you ever wanted to learn more about a specific aspect of the DP program, or
26:05
ask a question to an educational theorist about a specific IB aspect?
26:09
IB Unplugged is the place for you.
26:11
Simply visit kognity.com/ibunlugged to submit your question to us,
26:16
and have your question explored in more detail in an upcoming episode.
26:20
And now, back to the show.
26:23
We're talking about really important values
26:25
and really important roles of educators and I, I'm all for it.
26:29
I love it because I'm on board with the idea that's I think that's why
26:34
it is why I got into education.
26:35
I think that's why a lot of teachers get into education
26:37
as well as they recognize that responsibility.
26:40
And sometimes we can also get focused on academic outcomes, right?
26:45
Especially in the diploma program.
26:46
We have to know this specific thing.
26:48
I gotta know this thing to meet this qualification.
26:50
So then I can get on to university and beyond.
26:52
And what we're talking about here is about developing compassion
26:55
and ethics and, you know, beautiful human beings.
26:59
How do we make that transition?
27:03
How do we make that happen?
27:04
So educators see themselves
27:05
kind of beyond the academic outcomes they're trying to create.
27:08
But rather molders of these beautiful human beings that we're talking about.
27:12
You know, I've seen an example.
27:14
I'm not going to promote a school over the other,
27:16
but I've seen it in a school.
27:18
I did see it in one school that really
27:22
the results are not even spoken about.
27:25
And the kids during the diploma, the results, there
27:29
wasn't even any kind of,
27:33
concern about the results.
27:35
And I've seen the opposite.
27:36
I've seen schools where they celebrate the students who get over 40.
27:41
And that really upset me because
27:47
are you saying that the students who got 35 or 36 are bad?
27:51
Are you saying the students who got 28
27:54
or even 24 and just passed the diploma, right.
27:57
That's the humanity part where this person
28:01
who just passed or got 25 or 24, might have put
28:05
in a lot of effort to achieve that, and that should be celebrated.
28:10
So I think it's really and again, this beckons the focus on the humanities.
28:16
Like how far did that student evolve
28:20
and how much effort have they put in and how well rewarded
28:25
were they. Yeah.
28:26
And well rewarded,
28:27
doesn't mean a 45 or a 42.
28:29
It could mean that, you know, he was about, he or she were about to fail
28:34
and they didn't.
28:35
And they got the diploma. And you know what?
28:37
I haven't seen an IB student
28:39
who didn't get into university, who wanted to go into university,
28:42
who didn't get into university, right, even with just courses,
28:45
or they all get into universities and they are all great.
28:49
And what makes them great is in the fact that they got a seven
28:53
in physics, it's about it's about the competencies
28:56
and the skills that they have to be university ready
29:00
and how they navigate university life and how they handle it.
29:04
This is awesome.
29:05
I'm literally kind of you could probably feel it.
29:07
I'm like filling up with tingles right now. This is awesome because
29:11
I think there are educators
29:13
that believe this, what you're saying right now, and I think we know it.
29:16
And then there's this pressure.
29:18
Well, we need to have great scores.
29:19
You know, that's ultimately kind of what it comes down to.
29:21
And that's the tangible thing that parents or that wider society can relate to say,
29:26
well, this is now we're valued, but it's so
29:29
enriching and encouraging to hear you.
29:31
And I'm going to go ahead and widen this
29:33
representatives of the entire IB saying that it's more about the development
29:38
of the human than it is about whatever number could express about that.
29:42
Absolutely.
29:43
You know what one thing that you just mentioned.
29:46
An area that we talk about a lot in the IB,
29:49
but we haven't been able to really unlock it, is I think
29:55
we owe it to the parents and the community to explain what's it about.
29:58
Right.
29:59
And that direction about the human aspect of things.
30:04
I don't think we are able to because technically speaking,
30:07
we work with schools and we can't
30:09
I can't go into a country and say, hey guys, come, let's go.
30:13
But I think we can do it through schools.
30:15
I think we're more and more thinking that we need to be
30:20
as part of our
30:21
us getting closer to the community and being more in countries.
30:27
We are really thinking that, okay, let's
30:29
let's have, you know, equality circles with parents.
30:33
Let's create some awareness for parents.
30:35
Let's really make them see what's important.
30:37
And let's help schools identify how to focus on the human element
30:42
as opposed to the results at the end of that number.
30:48
Yeah.
30:48
This is where I feel a personal responsibility
30:51
as a DP coordinator in my school.
30:53
In my context,
30:54
I would say that's more my responsibility to share that with the community.
30:57
I'm at a closer connection with those parents,
31:00
with those students, to really help to contextualize what we're talking about.
31:03
Yeah.
31:03
So while I appreciate, you know, we want to draw closer to schools
31:07
and help them know,
31:08
I personally feel that's on me, that's on me as a DP coordinator
31:11
and to make sure that I'm contextualizing this for the parents
31:15
and for the students and people coming to the school.
31:17
Because the reality is
31:19
the IB experience that those students, those parents are going to have
31:22
it comes down to the interactions they're having with those teachers,
31:25
the interactions they have with me as a DP coordinator
31:27
and therefore I have responsibility of reciprocity, as you were talking about
31:32
before, to communicate the shared humanity intentions of the IB.
31:36
If the conversation is always around the academic rigor
31:40
and the scores and that piece, which is really important,
31:44
but I think it's from every parent conference that you have, from every,
31:50
wider meeting
31:51
or the, the narrative that you're creating,
31:54
if you're always talking about the academic rigor, the scores,
31:58
you know, if you're just prioritizing,
32:00
okay, next step is mark exams.
32:02
You're always talking about those elements and not talking about
32:06
the cultivating humanity and the flourishing of the students.
32:12
Then of course, that's what the community is going to think,
32:14
that it's about, yeah.
32:18
So then this
32:19
I want to kind of pack a little bit more about what we were talking about before
32:21
with regard to the challenges we're seeing ourselves presented with now.
32:25
And, you know, I think there's many global challenges
32:29
that's drawing us to try to create a more equitable world.
32:32
And, you know, that's a big part of our mission itself.
32:35
How, in your view, does education play a role
32:38
in addressing those global challenges?
32:40
How does education create that more equitable world?
32:44
We have been
32:45
at the IB, we've been really playing
32:48
with the construct of,
32:53
education for flourishing.
32:56
The focus has been top of mind
32:59
is that how do we evolve our education to really focus on,
33:05
on flourishing that mind, heart, connection?
33:09
Yeah.
33:10
There's a lot of efforts that's being done
33:13
at the education office to really look at that.
33:16
And there are several pilots that have been released that
33:19
that really address some of these, things at a small scale so that we're still
33:25
we're still just barely scratching the surface.
33:29
But certainly education needs to, in general, not just IB,
33:33
I think education, first of all,
33:37
needs to get out of its silos.
33:39
If it's siloed, it's you cannot keep on.
33:42
You find higher education silos
33:45
in one space, you find industry in one, one space.
33:49
And you find usually K12 is a space
33:53
where mostly they work on themselves, all over on the local level.
33:58
But still they need
33:59
a lot of support.
34:02
I think it's up around building on the what we consider a challenge.
34:08
So let's say, for example, AI.
34:10
I've heard it from people who are saying, oh, with AI,
34:13
people are going to, young citizens are going to be so dumb.
34:17
I'm like, why?
34:19
Why?
34:20
There was a time where we didn't need to write.
34:23
And then we evolved into we need to write.
34:25
And we needed to write really well.
34:27
We needed to have good handwriting.
34:30
Like, it's an evolution.
34:31
Now it's a time.
34:33
It's not about only research.
34:34
The facts are there.
34:36
The internet taught us that.
34:37
But now the next step is
34:40
how do I help those students
34:43
ask the right prompts to get the best outcomes from AI
34:48
to deliver their assignments or to deliver their report.
34:52
So it's really that kind of alignment around those challenges
34:56
to really help them with that connection.
34:59
How can I leverage social media in a way that creates
35:06
more understanding about world issues,
35:09
in a way that has empathy, humanity,
35:13
but also teaches them stuff that around education that you need to do.
35:18
It's really integrating all those things and creating that
35:23
which IB does very well, as you would know more than I would
35:28
practitioners.
35:29
But I'm just saying that these are some of the things that where,
35:32
education could lead to more humanity.
35:37
I think one of the things
35:38
I've heard the education office often talk about is that how can we,
35:42
keep the academic rigor but make it maybe less stressful to allow that space
35:47
more for that creativity, innovation.
35:51
And that kind of,
35:54
space for humanity to flourish and to have those conversations
35:59
that the students very much need.
36:02
I don't know if I answered your question, but,
36:04
it's just a multitude of thoughts that came to my mind.
36:07
I mean, it's a multitude of, I guess, it's a complex
36:10
way of approaching it. Yeah.
36:12
But I think fundamentally, if we're in education, we believe that
36:15
it is a powerful tool that we can use to impact the world in positive ways.
36:19
And so,
36:20
yeah, whether it's reframing the way that we think about one particular issue
36:23
or understanding the evolution of where we're at now
36:26
and how we need to cultivate things differently than the way
36:28
I might have experienced them when I went to school.
36:31
Right.
36:31
That the education that we are developing and collectively creating
36:37
isn't an exact replication of what
36:39
we all experienced in our own educational experiences.
36:42
So that's where I think that's the at least that's what I'm taking from
36:45
what you've said is to address the global problems
36:49
that are going on right now.
36:50
First, we have to be a learner, and we have to be open to what is going on
36:54
and then recognize what is the situation need
36:56
that might be different to what I grew up with or what my training taught me
37:00
however many years ago.
37:03
Yeah. No.
37:03
And I think that it's also about, this is such a good time for the IB,
37:09
for schools, for everyone to be reflecting on what actually is important
37:13
to teach when something like AI comes about.
37:16
I mean, I think there's been such, glorification of the education
37:22
shaped around a book, like a print, like the like knowledge and printed
37:29
text were are just this interchangeable, unbreakable piece.
37:33
And this is really challenging that,
37:35
there were so many civilizations and times
37:39
and, oral storytelling and, you know, all of these things that transferring
37:43
knowledge doesn't have to be with a body of text.
37:46
And I think it has opened up this conversation of then what actually
37:51
matters.
37:52
It's so much of education was shaped around what matters
37:55
when we talk about knowledge through that printed space.
37:58
Now we're saying, well, let's revisit this and what actually matters.
38:01
And what you're saying is this shared humanity, empathy.
38:05
What are the ways to prepare students to take on those global responsibilities?
38:10
And I love that
38:11
the IB is really evaluating these different pilots on
38:15
what could change that will make students
38:18
still feel also future ready.
38:21
Like, what are those skills?
38:23
And I'd love to kind of dive a bit more into that of, for you,
38:27
now, what do you think a future ready student looks like?
38:32
First of all, I have to say that I really like what you just said
38:36
about that evolution of the value of the book and the printed,
38:41
and now it became maybe one of the resources that would be used,
38:46
and it doesn't even need to be printed, and it could be online.
38:50
And I think that is a part of that evolution that we need to go for.
38:57
There are a few
39:00
attributes that I really
39:02
find very important for humanity to flourish in the future.
39:07
And I even gave that to my son as advice,
39:11
empathy is my number one.
39:15
It's really that emotional intelligence, understanding
39:18
where you are, understanding the context,
39:22
being well read and well aware of around it,
39:25
and then positioning yourself in a way
39:27
that comes across as respectful and empathetic.
39:31
The second thing is perseverance.
39:35
The world is becoming harder, and we should not expect it to become easier.
39:40
There's going to be, with more advancement, forget wars
39:44
or bad things, it's becoming more competitive.
39:48
And I've even witnessed it,
39:50
like when, if I had kept my kids in Jordan,
39:54
then they would have competed in that limited space in Jordan to find a job.
39:58
Now they don't need to do that.
40:00
Now they can work at the bare minimum across the whole of Europe,
40:04
if they don't want to work even outside.
40:07
And that becomes harder
40:10
to distinguish yourself, becomes harder to stand out,
40:13
so that you can find the right job and the right place.
40:16
So I think it's that kind of perseverance that is really important
40:23
to have in built in you.
40:24
And the third thing, that I really value, is resilience, because,
40:29
things will continue to come your way.
40:32
Challenges at older ages.
40:34
Challenges always come,
40:36
you always face a problem at work, in your life.
40:40
And if you're just going to break down at that and
40:43
you know, it's not helpful to you or to anyone around you.
40:47
So I think resilience is a very important
40:50
attribute that you need to have.
40:52
Obviously,
40:55
that's not
40:56
to replace all the important things that you really need to understand.
41:00
Like, as we said, like,
41:01
understand what AI can I do to me and and how can I do it?
41:05
How can I use it in a way that's ethical and useful.
41:10
So all these
41:13
competencies are very important and continue
41:16
like we always say that the IB student is always university ready.
41:20
They know how to research.
41:21
They know how to write, you know, an essay.
41:24
They know how to respond, present.
41:27
So these continue to be very important
41:30
achievements, but it's just that making that extra mile,
41:34
where you’re seen for who you are as a human being,
41:38
is probably the hardest thing to do, but it will come with those underlying,
41:44
kind of, the competencies. Yeah.
41:46
If you can show who you are. Yeah.
41:49
I mean, that's so critical to be able to present yourself, to know who you are
41:53
internally, but also be able to explain that and present that externally.
41:58
Yeah.
41:58
And, you know, I hear that a lot, especially when you go outside
42:01
of the Western world and you talk about IB is, we don't want to be internal.
42:05
We're proud of where we are.
42:06
And I'm like, we absolutely love that.
42:09
You should be proud of who you are.
42:11
And the first thing for you,
42:13
as you just rightfully said, Courtney, know who you are.
42:17
Love it. Respect it.
42:18
Because then when you do it, you present yourself in a better way
42:22
and you don't present yourself as a subservient human being to the person
42:25
in front of you.
42:27
You present yourself as a whole and really deserving,
42:30
and you will command respect from the people in front of you,
42:34
even if you don't have the same resources or same education or anything like that.
42:40
It's very, very important.
42:45
It feels like what we've been
42:45
talking about this entire time is a rethinking of education.
42:49
It's thinking more about how we can develop really valuable attributes
42:54
and really valuable in young people who go on to, who do great things around
43:00
and not great things, as in, like I've done something very impactful.
43:02
I've made a lot of money, but great things around sharing
43:04
humanity and helping bring out the best of each other, right?
43:07
That real flourishing aspect.
43:09
So I guess if you could say anything to any
43:12
educator that's listening to us right now, that would maybe challenge
43:15
or maybe just say, hey, move this way, this is kind of what we're hoping for.
43:19
This is what we need from our educators, what we need from our students
43:23
in our classrooms. We want you to go in this direction.
43:26
What would it be?
43:28
Strangely enough, the first thing that popped into my mind
43:31
is that don't undermine the value of making an impact on one student.
43:36
You know, I know, like you as a teacher,
43:40
you'll have to manage large classroom.
43:42
Then you have too many of them.
43:44
But, you have the chance to change the life of those students.
43:48
And sometimes you will have that one student that is not responding
43:53
to the typical ways or not being part of the group, and that this is
43:58
where you can create really your mark and really saving that person
44:02
and really creating the next scientist in the world or the next,
44:07
you know, like even even
44:09
not that just helping that person find themselves is very important.
44:13
And so I would say it's,
44:16
be more human,
44:17
you know, and I know, most teachers,
44:21
have that, most passionate teachers,
44:24
have that human, in them because they like to do it
44:28
because they have that connection.
44:32
And I think just continue to do,
44:34
to be more human and to connect with
44:39
the students and my,
44:41
my ask is for the teachers that don't feel that they have it in them.
44:46
Don't be teachers, don't do it as a job.
44:48
Honestly.
44:49
Yeah.
44:49
I know a lot of teachers who do this as a job.
44:52
You can't be.
44:54
It's a demanding job.
44:56
It's a human job.
44:59
It's hard.
45:02
And in many cases,
45:04
not as rewarding as many other careers around the world.
45:07
Financially, maybe.
45:09
Right?
45:11
And that's why you really need to be invested.
45:13
Because it's hard.
45:15
It's not an easy thing to do.
45:17
And I'm saddened when I go into schools and see a lot of
45:21
teachers who are just doing it as a job.
45:25
And it's so obvious.
45:28
Really quickly.
45:29
And, you know, it's destructive because
45:33
if you don't like it, you're not going to be embracing
45:36
for your kids, you're not going to support them.
45:40
You're not going to care
45:42
if they're down or if they're not feeling well.
45:45
It's very important.
45:47
So like math is not one of my key strengths.
45:50
And I'm told by my kids that I'm the best math teacher.
45:54
And you know why?
45:55
It's because I put myself in their shoes.
45:57
Why don't they understand?
45:59
And I remember what didn't I understand.
46:02
And that's how I deliver the message.
46:05
That's the kind of thing that, you know, like the teacher has to step
46:09
out of their way,
46:11
to really deliver
46:13
the good education for their kids.
46:17
Yeah. That's fantastic.
46:19
I'd love to flip the question then, to you and to your career of
46:23
what is something that you've been doing at the IB that you're either really proud
46:27
of or an initiative that you felt like has had a really strong impact
46:30
that you could share with us?
46:32
One that I am very proud of,
46:34
but it's maybe not too visible to the outside the IB,
46:38
but it's really helped create with my team
46:41
a different approach to creating a market space to really approaching schools
46:47
in a proactive way rather than just respond to,
46:53
those interests at schools.
46:54
Obviously, we continue to respond to the interest in schools,
46:58
but it's the idea of going to markets, going to places where there isn't IB
47:03
and creating a market space, creating that awareness that there is
47:07
there is a need for IB.
47:09
Before I joined the IB and
47:12
I'm not saying that this is me, but it's the impact of my team's work.
47:17
We never approached governments like in the Arab world
47:21
to become IB because it was just assumed
47:24
that this is just a private school thing and it's not related.
47:28
Right.
47:28
I'm like, well, half of our schools in the US are public schools,
47:32
so it works in the US.
47:33
Why wouldn't it work anywhere else? Right?
47:35
So that's the idea and I built on that.
47:38
And therefore we've had successes in Jordan.
47:41
We launched 13 schools in Jordan.
47:43
We've launched 12 schools in Lebanon.
47:48
We're launching those schools in Bahrain.
47:51
So that's one thing.
47:52
The other thing is that and that's with support from my management as well,
47:57
and the team, is like, that one size fits all does not work.
48:02
So inside the IB now we're really actually saying, yeah,
48:06
we continue to offer our programs to the schools that really want it,
48:10
but some other schools or some other countries or some other
48:12
governments need an element of the IB, but not necessarily the schools.
48:16
We can offer that.
48:18
Why not? It's about impact.
48:22
And I tell people,
48:23
if you really love things that what IB does is valuable,
48:26
then we should try to spread it as much as possible. Yeah.
48:29
And in however way it's possible
48:33
as well as it, being sustainable.
48:36
And maybe our last one is,
48:39
I had this idea of really building on the language and cultural commonalities
48:46
and created a region in which is about America region,
48:51
which is focused on Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and connecting
48:56
basically two continents
49:00
through one common leadership but one common approach.
49:05
And it's helped us really create a lot of a presence and stronger presence
49:09
in Latin America, as well as in the Iberian Peninsula.
49:14
So, I mean, these are some of the things that, I'm very happy about.
49:18
Yeah.
49:18
And you can see when you connect the things
49:19
that we've been talking about so far in this episode, the developing,
49:24
yeah, these, these people who are ethical
49:27
and globally responsible and, you know, know themselves
49:30
how important it is to share that out there
49:32
with schools all across the globe.
49:33
Absolutely.
49:35
Haif, thank you so much for taking the time here to chat with us.
49:37
This has been super inspirational and a really valuable conversation.
49:40
I really appreciate you taking the time.
49:41
Thank you guys, really appreciate it.
49:44
IB Unplugged is a Kognity podcast, hosted by John Patton
49:47
and Courtney Marline and produced by Katilina Gaffney.
49:50
Be sure to subscribe or follow and share with your fellow IB educators.
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If you'd like to submit a topic, request, or a question, please do so
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on kognity.com/ibunplugged.
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Let's keep the conversation going
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and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity, and joy.
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See you next time.