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Joe Rogan Experience _2500 - Scott Horton · Luke's English Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Podcast check it out.
0:03
Speaker 2: But Joe Wigan Experience Train My Day Joe.
0:07
Speaker 3: Rogan podcast by Night All Day.
0:13
Speaker 2: Does that sound okay? Check check check. This is my
0:15
Speaker 2: normal complaint volume.
0:17
Speaker 3: One of those one ear on when you're off guys.
0:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, my right ear hurts a lot from years of this,
0:22
Speaker 2: and so I usually just leave it off.
0:24
Speaker 3: There's a volume adjuster thing too, so if it's too loud,
0:26
Speaker 3: you can turn it up a current down.
0:28
Speaker 2: He's sun good, but no, it's just I have a
0:30
Speaker 2: pain in my right ear, so I try not to
0:31
Speaker 2: antagonize it.
0:32
Speaker 3: And thank you very much for the gift ladies and gentlemen.
0:35
Speaker 3: Scot Horton gave me a professorial pipe and like I
0:38
Speaker 3: was saying, Metzger uses a pipe now because of you.
0:42
Speaker 3: Like he I love that guy. He's the best.
0:44
Speaker 2: He's so funny. He's such a nut. When he comes
0:47
Speaker 2: into the room, he just blows the room away. Yeah,
0:50
Speaker 2: he's just how forced in there.
0:51
Speaker 3: And he's a giant dude. So he like hovers over
0:54
Speaker 3: you like, oh you didn't know, you don't know about this,
0:56
Speaker 3: and then he just hits you with fifteen conspiracies in
0:59
Speaker 3: a row. Rapid Fire was good. Yeah, with no breaks
1:02
Speaker 3: in between them. So thanks for doing this many thanks
1:06
Speaker 3: for having me. We have a great mutual friend and
1:08
Speaker 3: Dave Smith he recommends you highly. So I'm glad we
1:11
Speaker 3: could finally do this. I wish there was more going
1:13
Speaker 3: on the world right now we could talk about though,
1:15
Speaker 3: was like.
1:16
Speaker 2: I just have to go back over Vietnam or something.
1:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, some the old stuff back when we didn't know
1:20
Speaker 3: any better.
1:23
Speaker 2: It's kind of a message.
1:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen you argue on television like a thousand times.
1:29
Speaker 3: Do you enjoyed like that Pierce Morgan type chaos?
1:34
Speaker 2: No? In fact, I just got back from England. I
1:38
Speaker 2: got invited to do the Oxford Debate, which I lost
1:41
Speaker 2: on Ukraine. But then I invited myself on Pierce Morgan
1:46
Speaker 2: Live as long as I was in town.
1:48
Speaker 3: When you say you lost a debate, is that because
1:50
Speaker 3: the people voted that were in the audience. Yeah, all
1:52
Speaker 3: those people with Ukraine flags.
1:55
Speaker 2: Well they didn't have Ukraine flags that time. I think
1:57
Speaker 2: some showed an old picture or something, but yeah, the
1:59
Speaker 2: same crass. So what happened was, Yeah, when they leave,
2:02
Speaker 2: they either leave through the yes door or the no door,
2:05
Speaker 2: and the yes has had it, which was unbelievable to me,
2:07
Speaker 2: but not that I did my very best job well,
2:10
Speaker 2: but on Pierce Morgan, I was trying to get myself
2:13
Speaker 2: just an interview so I could just talk to him
2:15
Speaker 2: about some things, and instead they just prefer that format
2:19
Speaker 2: where you've got to mix it up with a guy,
2:20
Speaker 2: which I can do that too, you know.
2:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, the interview thing is way better. The thing that
2:26
Speaker 3: he does though, is really good for engagement. He's very smart. Yeah,
2:30
Speaker 3: like Pierce has done. He's mastered it. He's taken like
2:33
Speaker 3: the Jerry Springer type format and thrown it into the
2:37
Speaker 3: world of politics and any other social issue that's going on.
2:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is too like years ago, the guy
2:44
Speaker 2: from anti word dot com can't be on TV, but
2:47
Speaker 2: we can be on his show. He doesn't care. He's
2:49
Speaker 2: cool with it. I mean, I guess same thing here. Yeah,
2:52
Speaker 2: that is a big change from how things used to be.
2:54
Speaker 2: We just had this whole separate conversation going on below
2:58
Speaker 2: the higher one where he has reach you know, up
3:01
Speaker 2: and down the chain, I guess.
3:02
Speaker 4: Is the way to put Is he on tv TV
3:04
Speaker 4: or is it just but he just has massive yeah, massivewership,
3:07
Speaker 4: so it counts like TV TV.
3:09
Speaker 3: Is actually a hindrance now because the only way people
3:12
Speaker 3: watch TV TV is clips that someone takes in puts
3:15
Speaker 3: on X or YouTube. That's it, or.
3:17
Speaker 2: They just see it accidentally.
3:18
Speaker 3: It's just on.
3:18
Speaker 2: It happens to be on when they're in the room
3:20
Speaker 2: or whatever.
3:21
Speaker 3: What a fucking dying market. Like imagine if you're in
3:25
Speaker 3: broadcast television right now and you're just thinking, like where
3:28
Speaker 3: am I? What am I doing? Like this is a
3:31
Speaker 3: bad format. You have to break for commercials every seven minutes.
3:35
Speaker 3: No conversation could ever get into depth. There's executives in
3:38
Speaker 3: your ear telling you what to say and what not
3:40
Speaker 3: to say. They'll edit out anything that they think is
3:43
Speaker 3: like controversial, that's going to fuck with their sponsors or
3:45
Speaker 3: fuck with the government, or fuck with whatever their narrative is.
3:50
Speaker 2: It's just everything stangs. When I first started doing podcasting,
3:53
Speaker 2: it was the archives of the interviews for my radio show,
3:56
Speaker 2: and it was so important to me that I'm on
3:57
Speaker 2: the radio because that's real legitimacy. That means somebody hired you,
4:01
Speaker 2: somebody thought you were good enough to be there. Whereas
4:03
Speaker 2: podcasting any jerk can do from his basement and it
4:06
Speaker 2: just doesn't count. And then that just became not true,
4:08
Speaker 2: and I kind of clung on to my radio show.
4:10
Speaker 2: Actually gave up my last radio show on KPFK in
4:13
Speaker 2: Los Angeles last year after I mean, where it didn't
4:17
Speaker 2: matter anymore anyway, and podcasting has completely changed the entire market.
4:22
Speaker 3: Do you know how many people were listening to actually
4:24
Speaker 3: on the radio before you quit?
4:27
Speaker 2: I think it's like probably high thousands, but not ten thousand.
4:32
Speaker 2: You know, KPFK in LA, it's crazy. It's the most
4:35
Speaker 2: powerful FM transmitter west to the Mississippi River's grandfathered in
4:38
Speaker 2: at one hundred and fifteen thousand watts. But but the
4:41
Speaker 2: thing is about it too, and it's always been like this.
4:43
Speaker 2: The programming on there is so inconsistent that you're listening
4:47
Speaker 2: to Latina lesbians one hour, and then you're listening to
4:50
Speaker 2: Crystal worship, and then you're listening to hard hitting news,
4:54
Speaker 2: and then you're listening to like leftist union organizing or
4:57
Speaker 2: then just whatever, you know what I mean. But it's
4:58
Speaker 2: just there's no like real rhyme or reason to us.
5:01
Speaker 2: It's hard to follow.
5:02
Speaker 3: You know what kind of a channel is it?
5:05
Speaker 2: Oh, it's you know, left of the dial. At ninety
5:08
Speaker 2: point seven FM. So it's you know, comparable to like
5:12
Speaker 2: KUT type. It's not actual public radio, but it's no commercials,
5:16
Speaker 2: all donations. Oh wow, Yeah, I mean they were.
5:19
Speaker 3: Good to be a radio show that's no commercials and
5:21
Speaker 3: it's not public. Yeah, that's interesting.
5:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, I don't know if co Op still
5:27
Speaker 2: exists here in Austin cooperating.
5:30
Speaker 3: You must have made a lot of money from that.
5:32
Speaker 3: You must be so rich from doing that. Yeah, this
5:36
Speaker 3: radio with no ads at all, just donations. Boy, you
5:41
Speaker 3: bust be raking it in.
5:42
Speaker 2: No, they never did pay me, but I looked at
5:44
Speaker 2: it like they let me be on there for fourteen
5:48
Speaker 2: fifteen years or something. And you know, like even when
5:51
Speaker 2: I was writing my book about the Russia Ukraine's stuff,
5:56
Speaker 2: I would do my radio show once a week and
5:58
Speaker 2: I was able to still cover what was going on
6:00
Speaker 2: in Palestine, and in a way that I felt like,
6:04
Speaker 2: you know, you know, you know, something meaningful that I
6:06
Speaker 2: can do even though my attention was completely diverted elsewhere.
6:09
Speaker 2: I still got all my guys from the Libertarian Institute
6:11
Speaker 2: and anti war dot com. I can interview them once
6:13
Speaker 2: a week. And then when I left KPFK, I got
6:17
Speaker 2: some response, so like, oh, no, where are you going
6:19
Speaker 2: kind of thing. So, I mean some people were caring
6:21
Speaker 2: for it at the time.
6:22
Speaker 3: Did you let them know, Hey, I have a podcast,
6:25
Speaker 3: you could see them all all these episodes be archived.
6:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of always let them know that. You know,
6:30
Speaker 2: I've done six thousand, two hundred something interviews since two
6:33
Speaker 2: thousand and three on my various shows. So I always
6:36
Speaker 2: try to remind people to go check the archives if
6:38
Speaker 2: they want for the full those of that stuff.
6:41
Speaker 3: Before we get into any of these subjects, like how
6:43
Speaker 3: did you get into this?
6:46
Speaker 2: Well, you know, in the nineties, I was, you know,
6:49
Speaker 2: when I was younger, I was much more of like
6:50
Speaker 2: a New World Order true through type. But then I
6:55
Speaker 2: basically dropped all that I grew out.
6:57
Speaker 3: Of define new World Order true type.
7:01
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I mean the New World Order conspiracy was
7:03
Speaker 2: that American foreign policy ultimately is about building a one
7:07
Speaker 2: world federal government under the United Nations that would ultimately
7:10
Speaker 2: dominate the United States. The John Birch Society right sort
7:13
Speaker 2: of idea of how and I really liked those guys,
7:17
Speaker 2: and I believed that for a long time, really through
7:20
Speaker 2: Clinton and even into the beginning of w Bush. But
7:23
Speaker 2: then I could I finally realized with the way that
7:26
Speaker 2: the Iraq War was prosecuted, that this is not about
7:28
Speaker 2: building up the UN Security Council. We got the National
7:32
Speaker 2: Security Council and Cheney and his neo cons and they
7:35
Speaker 2: have their own separate policy that just disproves that sort
7:40
Speaker 2: of new World Order theory and the American and in fact,
7:43
Speaker 2: so what H. W. Bush meant by that was just
7:45
Speaker 2: the era of the American Empire with no one to
7:47
Speaker 2: stop us this time was all. It was never to
7:50
Speaker 2: build up the UN as the world government. It was
7:52
Speaker 2: to build up Washington, d c. As the world government.
7:55
Speaker 2: And of course they've been failing and flailing it trying
7:59
Speaker 2: to establish that.
8:00
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the conspiracy was that the United Nations would
8:07
Speaker 3: would be the government of the entire earth, and that
8:10
Speaker 3: all other governments would somehow or another give up their
8:13
Speaker 3: power to the United Nations for what reason.
8:18
Speaker 2: Because they're all in on it together in secret whatever.
8:21
Speaker 2: And that's the point, is it ain't right, it's not true.
8:23
Speaker 3: Well, there's one question.
8:24
Speaker 2: Too many people would have to exactly, too many people
8:26
Speaker 2: have to sacrifice the power they do have to somebody else,
8:30
Speaker 2: and when they don't have to money.
8:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the other thing. I mean, as soon as
8:33
Speaker 3: you lose power, then you lose access to insane amounts
8:37
Speaker 3: of wealth.
8:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we don't want, you know, obviously, it's the
8:40
Speaker 2: ultimate nightmare would be that you would have some kind
8:43
Speaker 2: of one world government and then some kind of tutalitarian
8:46
Speaker 2: regime take power with a monopoly on nukes and a
8:50
Speaker 2: monopoly on police power. And you know, but that's just
8:53
Speaker 2: a nightmare for centuries from now. I mean, that's just
8:55
Speaker 2: not going to happen anytime soon at all. That's not
8:57
Speaker 2: what you.
8:57
Speaker 3: Don't think there's any push towards centralizing things in that regard,
9:01
Speaker 3: Like wasn't the World Health Organization trying to push for
9:05
Speaker 3: sure thing where the entire world would have to respond
9:09
Speaker 3: to their pandemic rules.
9:11
Speaker 2: Well, look, so yes, there's always you know, the widening
9:15
Speaker 2: and deepening of the international law as much as they can.
9:18
Speaker 2: Right at the end of the day, there is no
9:20
Speaker 2: actual world state to enforce that law other than just
9:23
Speaker 2: the United States of America. But there is no one
9:26
Speaker 2: world army, one world police force to enforce these things.
9:30
Speaker 2: It's all about coercing and cajoling governments to go along
9:34
Speaker 2: and which goes to show. I mean, this is the
9:36
Speaker 2: whole thing about when they talk about you know what H. W.
9:39
Speaker 2: Bush meant when he talked about the New World Order.
9:41
Speaker 2: It's the same thing that Joe Biden meant when he
9:43
Speaker 2: would say the liberal rules based international order of just
9:46
Speaker 2: doing what America says, right, that's what it is. You know,
9:50
Speaker 2: it's a pseudo empire. It's not exactly the same kind
9:53
Speaker 2: of empires and you know colonialism that we've had in
9:56
Speaker 2: the past, but it's sort of a neo colonialism where
10:00
Speaker 2: if we can overthrow your government with some money, then
10:03
Speaker 2: we'll do that. A little bit of CIA help, we'll
10:05
Speaker 2: do that. And if we have to bomb your capital city,
10:09
Speaker 2: we'll go for that if we think so. And it
10:11
Speaker 2: does go back really to the Wolf of Woods doctrine,
10:14
Speaker 2: you know, of various degrees, but this is a reference
10:17
Speaker 2: to right after the First Gulf War, Paul wolf Woods
10:19
Speaker 2: at that time was the Deputy Secretary of Defense for
10:22
Speaker 2: Policy and him and a couple other neocons Scuota Libby
10:25
Speaker 2: and Zammie Calilzad, they wrote up this document called the
10:28
Speaker 2: Defense Plan and Guidance, and it was saying this is
10:31
Speaker 2: going to be you know, the posture for the post
10:34
Speaker 2: Cold War era and the post First I Gulf War era,
10:39
Speaker 2: and what it said was, We're going to be the
10:41
Speaker 2: most dominant power on every continent anywhere in the world,
10:45
Speaker 2: and we're not even going to tolerate any other nation
10:48
Speaker 2: or alliance or a group of nations anywhere to try
10:52
Speaker 2: to join together to balance against us. We will be
10:54
Speaker 2: dominant everywhere, and we'll never let anyone get that bar ahead,
10:57
Speaker 2: or at least we're going to try to construct order
11:00
Speaker 2: where our power is essentially permanent, and they don't even
11:03
Speaker 2: try it. And so that's what they've been trying to
11:06
Speaker 2: do with expanding our footprint in the Middle East, expanding
11:09
Speaker 2: our footprint into Eastern Europe, and of course, you know,
11:13
Speaker 2: working hard at least on building their alliances or tightening
11:17
Speaker 2: them and arming their alliances in Eastern Asia. And it's
11:21
Speaker 2: you know, under the theory that if it's not us,
11:23
Speaker 2: it'll be somebody else, it'll be so much worse. So
11:25
Speaker 2: we have to stay and dominate everything forever. But of
11:28
Speaker 2: course you look at the dead and just see, well,
11:29
Speaker 2: we can't afford it. So I don't know how anybody
11:31
Speaker 2: else can, but we certainly cannot afford to keep doing
11:33
Speaker 2: this right.
11:34
Speaker 3: And if you look at Wolfe Woods, if you see
11:36
Speaker 3: pulpa image of Paul Wolfowitz, he looks exactly like the
11:41
Speaker 3: kind of guy you would expect to make something like
11:44
Speaker 3: the wolf Woods doctrine right.
11:46
Speaker 2: And by the way, they did rewrite it because it
11:48
Speaker 2: was a scandal. It was leaked to the New York Times,
11:50
Speaker 2: and so they went back and rewrote it. And they
11:52
Speaker 2: just said, well, we'll bring our friends, you know, from
11:55
Speaker 2: the international institutions along to make.
11:57
Speaker 3: Sure there were your cursor is right below or right
11:59
Speaker 3: there to the right of that that one. Yeah, there
12:01
Speaker 3: you go, Like that completely looks like the type of
12:06
Speaker 3: guy that would do something.
12:06
Speaker 2: So listen, there's a there's a book about the neo
12:08
Speaker 2: Conservatives by Jacob Hill Brown called they Knew they were right,
12:13
Speaker 2: which is of course right, Like, yeah, these guys who
12:15
Speaker 2: have no idea what they're doing.
12:17
Speaker 3: Really, you know, that's hilarious.
12:19
Speaker 2: Try this, yeah, fit right on my little head.
12:22
Speaker 3: Like I said, you can fuck with the volume on
12:24
Speaker 3: that little knob and turn it up and down. So
12:28
Speaker 3: this was this is one of the things that when
12:32
Speaker 3: Coleman Hughes and our buddy Dave Smith got into it
12:36
Speaker 3: with was about whether you remember when they brought up
12:42
Speaker 3: this seven countries thing that you know, and he was
12:45
Speaker 3: saying that there was no real proof that that exists,
12:49
Speaker 3: that he didn't actually read it. He was told that
12:51
Speaker 3: we were going to go into seven countries. But you know,
12:56
Speaker 3: I was talking to Dave about this the other day.
12:57
Speaker 3: He's like, I if you just look at the fact
13:02
Speaker 3: that we did everything on that list except be Ron,
13:05
Speaker 3: every single one of them took place except be Ron.
13:09
Speaker 3: Like he's like, I really want to go and do
13:10
Speaker 3: that debate again, and I can't get Colma to sit
13:12
Speaker 3: down with me.
13:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes, For people who are interested in this subject,
13:17
Speaker 2: you know, long term, there's no mystery about the connection
13:21
Speaker 2: between the neo conservatives doctrines and then the activities that
13:25
Speaker 2: the w administration engaged in. Yeah, you know subsequent I
13:29
Speaker 2: mean what happened was you have you know. Andrew Coburn,
13:32
Speaker 2: the great journalist Andrew Coburn says that the neo conservatives
13:35
Speaker 2: are a cross between the Israel lobby and the military
13:38
Speaker 2: industrial complex. The fighter bomber salesman needed eggheads to justify
13:43
Speaker 2: their policies, and the neo conservatives wanted to support Israel
13:47
Speaker 2: wanted to support American hegemony and so took all the
13:50
Speaker 2: military dostrial complex money to build their think tanks, to
13:53
Speaker 2: create their consensus, to build their policy, you know, their
13:57
Speaker 2: own kind of thousand little Council law on foreign relations
14:00
Speaker 2: is to get what they want. And then when you know,
14:03
Speaker 2: the seven countries thing is so.
14:05
Speaker 3: What we're talking about, Just to clarify, is Wesley Clark
14:08
Speaker 3: was given well was he was on some television show.
14:12
Speaker 3: I forget what the show was.
14:13
Speaker 2: Do you remember There's two different statements. One of them,
14:16
Speaker 2: I know was with Amy Goodman from Democrapery now Democracy.
14:19
Speaker 2: And basically what he's talking about is, you know, he
14:23
Speaker 2: says that a general or I'm sorry, a military officer
14:26
Speaker 2: of some rank told then retired but still with access
14:29
Speaker 2: former General Wesley Clark, who had been the Supreme ally
14:32
Speaker 2: Commander of NATO forces in Europe under Bill Clinton, did
14:34
Speaker 2: the coast of Old War, so very prominent four star general,
14:37
Speaker 2: and he said the way he told the story was
14:39
Speaker 2: he told him, hey, you know, we're they're planning for
14:42
Speaker 2: a war with Iraq, and he said Iraq, Why and
14:45
Speaker 2: like guy said, I don't know. And then the second
14:48
Speaker 2: part of the story was he came back a week
14:50
Speaker 2: later or something and the same guy said, there's this
14:52
Speaker 2: memo that has this seven countries and they say they
14:55
Speaker 2: want to take them all in five years. So they
14:57
Speaker 2: meaning the Office of the Secretary of Defense. So that's
15:00
Speaker 2: Donald Rumsfeld, who's not a neo conservative. He's his own
15:04
Speaker 2: separate thing here. He's the Secretary of Defense, but all
15:07
Speaker 2: of his guys, all of his most important guys, are
15:09
Speaker 2: neo Conservatives. So the Deputy Secretary of Defense is Paul Wolfowitz,
15:13
Speaker 2: The Deputy Secretary of Defense for Intelligence is Stephen Cambone.
15:16
Speaker 2: The Deputy Secretary Defense for policy.
15:18
Speaker 3: Is Douglas five.
15:19
Speaker 2: And then under him is Abrahm Shoulski and Bill Loody
15:22
Speaker 2: and all of these guys, Michael Rubin and others who
15:25
Speaker 2: were all working on this project to get us into
15:29
Speaker 2: a rock. And this is the neo conservative network of power.
15:32
Speaker 2: You got Scooter Libby and David Wormser would travel around
15:36
Speaker 2: from State to Defense to the Vice President's office. But
15:38
Speaker 2: he said, Scooter Libby and John Hannah and the Vice
15:40
Speaker 2: President's office. He got Zalmi khalil Zod and Elliot Abrams
15:43
Speaker 2: on the National Security Council, Robert Joseph and Stephen Hadley
15:48
Speaker 2: and Eric Edelman, all of these guys were already the
15:51
Speaker 2: network of guys who agreed with this policy going back
15:56
Speaker 2: through the nineteen nineties. It was what they had founded
15:59
Speaker 2: the Project for a New American Century on. And so
16:01
Speaker 2: what they're saying is we should not tolerate any and
16:05
Speaker 2: remember the time in the day, this was the state
16:07
Speaker 2: of doctrine. We will not tolerate the existence of any
16:09
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern regime that supports terrorism, and supports terrorism can
16:13
Speaker 2: mean anything, right, like Abu Nidal died in Iraq before
16:17
Speaker 2: the war even started and was washed up old terrorists
16:21
Speaker 2: from a previous day. But like, that's good enough. Got
16:23
Speaker 2: muja Aidin he Kamune terroists who've worked for US ever since.
16:26
Speaker 2: But at that time was a good enough excuse to
16:28
Speaker 2: invade Iraq. They would invoke that, and so they made
16:32
Speaker 2: up that doctrine.
16:33
Speaker 3: The Mujahadeen we're in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.
16:36
Speaker 2: Well, this is a particular sect of Mujahidin kooks who
16:39
Speaker 2: were Iranian communist cultists who were had left Iran and
16:44
Speaker 2: gone to work for Saddam Hussein and then were you know,
16:48
Speaker 2: he supported them. They had nothing to do with anti
16:49
Speaker 2: American terrorism at that time, except you know, I guess
16:55
Speaker 2: committing it when they had worked for Iran previously during
16:58
Speaker 2: the Rainy Revolution. But by I mean by the time
17:01
Speaker 2: we invaded i Rock, Don Rumsfeld inherited them and they've
17:04
Speaker 2: worked for American Israel ever since then. They have a
17:06
Speaker 2: base in Albania now. But in other words, though this
17:10
Speaker 2: wasn't al Kada, this was not any real excuse. They
17:12
Speaker 2: would just invoke the doctrine of fighting terrorism in order
17:16
Speaker 2: to check off this list of all of these governments
17:18
Speaker 2: that they didn't like. And coincidentally, and incidentally and very importantly,
17:22
Speaker 2: of course, this was really in many cases Israel's list
17:27
Speaker 2: of enemies. Where if it was a Colin Powell, which
17:30
Speaker 2: is what people thought they were voting for in the
17:31
Speaker 2: year two thousand. By the way, well, I don't know
17:33
Speaker 2: about this w Bush, but at least Colin Powell will
17:35
Speaker 2: be up there. We can trust him. They all said,
17:38
Speaker 2: if it had been up to him, we would have
17:40
Speaker 2: done a two state solution in Palestine and solved that issue,
17:44
Speaker 2: and then we would have had probably the most limited
17:46
Speaker 2: of wars against al Kada and Afghanistan, and that would
17:49
Speaker 2: have been it, the rest of it would have been
17:51
Speaker 2: police and or special forces action. There would have been
17:54
Speaker 2: no invasion of Iraq, which he did lie us into
17:56
Speaker 2: that war, and he's responsible for that, but that was
17:58
Speaker 2: not his policy. That was the policy that came out
18:00
Speaker 2: of the Vice President's office in this neo conservative set.
18:04
Speaker 2: And it's really, as Dave Smith correctly says, it's all
18:07
Speaker 2: based on the clean Break doctrine which David Wormser and
18:10
Speaker 2: Richard Pearl. Oh I neglected to mention Richard Pearl and
18:13
Speaker 2: his friends on the Defense Policy Board, But Pearl and
18:17
Speaker 2: David Wormser had written up this policy paper called a
18:20
Speaker 2: clean Break in nineteen ninety six, and they wrote it
18:22
Speaker 2: for Netan Yahoo when he was first Prime Minister the
18:25
Speaker 2: first time back then. And what it said was, instead
18:28
Speaker 2: of going along with the Oslo peace process and making
18:31
Speaker 2: a deal with the Palestinians, we should just forget all
18:33
Speaker 2: that and just we'll have peace through a position of
18:37
Speaker 2: strength and total dominance over our neighbors. And so. But
18:41
Speaker 2: the problem, of course is and of course meaning continue
18:45
Speaker 2: to devour Palestine. What's left the twenty two percent of
18:47
Speaker 2: what's left of historic Palestine in the West Bank and
18:50
Speaker 2: Gaza but the problem is we have Hasbala on our
18:53
Speaker 2: northern border, and has Bala is backed by Iran by
18:57
Speaker 2: way of Syria. So if you just picture in the
19:00
Speaker 2: Middle East, you know, if you want, you to throw
19:02
Speaker 2: up a map and just kind of show there's this
19:05
Speaker 2: ark of power from Tehran in Iran through Syria and
19:11
Speaker 2: to Hasbala. This Shiite militia in southern Lebanon. Now Saddam
19:16
Speaker 2: Hussein was the Sunni roadblock in that ark of power.
19:20
Speaker 2: But these guys are stupid, the neo conservatives. They're as
19:24
Speaker 2: stupid as they are arrogant and certain in their policy,
19:28
Speaker 2: and they believed in this hairbrain scheme essentially that the
19:31
Speaker 2: Jordanians and the Turks would be dominant in the new
19:34
Speaker 2: Saddam Hussein less Iraq, and that even though it's a
19:37
Speaker 2: super majority Shi'ite Arab country. Those Shiites they just love
19:42
Speaker 2: being told what to do by either Their original plan
19:45
Speaker 2: was the Hashemake King, the cousin of the king of Jordan,
19:48
Speaker 2: and then they threw that out. And that was the
19:50
Speaker 2: guy who sold them this line that this was possible
19:52
Speaker 2: in the first place. An Iraqi exile you might remember
19:55
Speaker 2: from that time, Ahmed Chalabi the head of the Iraqi
19:58
Speaker 2: National Congress. They said, well, we'll just make him the
20:02
Speaker 2: guy instead, which ended up not happening, but that was
20:05
Speaker 2: their plan. And they said, the new site dominated Iraq
20:10
Speaker 2: will then the religious leaders in Iraq will then force
20:14
Speaker 2: Hasbala to stop being friends with Iran and start being
20:17
Speaker 2: friends with Israel instead. And now even build an oil
20:20
Speaker 2: pipeline to Haifa or reopened the old British oil pipeline
20:23
Speaker 2: to Hyphe Israel. And they were sold this bill of
20:25
Speaker 2: goods and they really believed it. And so you can
20:27
Speaker 2: find this on my website Scott Wharton dot org. Have
20:29
Speaker 2: a Clean Break, a New Strategy for Securing the Realm.
20:32
Speaker 2: And then the companion piece is called Coping with Crumbling States,
20:35
Speaker 2: A Balance of Power Strategy for the Levant. They're both
20:38
Speaker 2: by David wormser signed off on by Richard Pearl, and
20:41
Speaker 2: then they wrote a book where Worms wrote the book
20:43
Speaker 2: and Richard Pearl wrote the foreword. It's called Tyranny's Ally
20:46
Speaker 2: America's Failure to remove Saddam Musin get that America is
20:49
Speaker 2: the ally of Saddam just because we won't launch a
20:52
Speaker 2: war to regime change. And they're right in the title
20:55
Speaker 2: and then based on the same hair brain scheme. And
20:57
Speaker 2: what's funny about this is this guy David worms and
21:00
Speaker 2: now tries to defend himself. And he did an interview
21:02
Speaker 2: on a podcast not too long ago with this born
21:05
Speaker 2: again Christian about September eleventh and stuff. But he talked
21:09
Speaker 2: about this and he's like, yeah, no, that's still right.
21:11
Speaker 2: They'll do whatever the Hashemites tell him to do. Those
21:14
Speaker 2: she Heites, they just worship and revere anyone who claims
21:17
Speaker 2: to have the blood of the prophet. But if that
21:19
Speaker 2: was true, as Dave Smith pointed out, well then how
21:23
Speaker 2: come you can't just call the king of Jordan right
21:26
Speaker 2: now and ask him to ask the Ayatola to knock
21:29
Speaker 2: it off, call him and ask have him ask has
21:33
Speaker 2: Bala to stop being friends with Iran. Why couldn't they
21:36
Speaker 2: have just done that this whole time? Why do you
21:38
Speaker 2: have to have a regime change in Baghdad before you
21:41
Speaker 2: can make this magic wish come true? And the whole
21:43
Speaker 2: thing is completely stupid. And the Sahites do revere some
21:47
Speaker 2: of the lineage of the family of the prophet Mohammed,
21:51
Speaker 2: but one it's not a magic spell of hypnosis and
21:54
Speaker 2: total control over them. And two that has nothing to
21:56
Speaker 2: do with the Hashemites, who are sunnies and a whole
21:59
Speaker 2: separate and are the British sock puppet kings of Jordan
22:02
Speaker 2: who used to rule a rock back seventy years ago
22:06
Speaker 2: or something, but have no purchase there whatsoever. And of
22:09
Speaker 2: course what happened, just real quick, what happened then in
22:11
Speaker 2: the war was they just empowered to run. They didn't
22:15
Speaker 2: empower Jordan in Turkey and America and Israel over the Iraqis.
22:19
Speaker 2: They just gave a run even more power than they
22:22
Speaker 2: ever had before. When it was all meant to screw
22:25
Speaker 2: them over, it blew up in the American space.
22:28
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23:34
Speaker 3: Do you think that that is because of total incompetence
23:38
Speaker 3: and stupidity or do you think that it was a
23:42
Speaker 3: scam and that they were They kind of knew this
23:46
Speaker 3: was going to happen in the first place. But what
23:47
Speaker 3: they really wanted to do was sell a lot of weapons,
23:51
Speaker 3: sell a lot of war, make a ton of money.
23:53
Speaker 3: I mean the amount of money that was generated. How
23:56
Speaker 3: much money did we spend on the Iraq war?
23:58
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean on a rock alone, at least five
24:02
Speaker 2: or seven trillion. I think it was probably ten trillion for.
24:05
Speaker 3: The whole time. Let's stop and think about that. Yeah,
24:08
Speaker 3: five or ten trillion, let's just say five. Let's be nice. Yeah,
24:11
Speaker 3: where's that money going? How many defense contractors were deeply
24:15
Speaker 3: enriched by that? How many defense contractors are involved in,
24:19
Speaker 3: you know, lobbyists, policy influencing change, influencing certain actions. And
24:25
Speaker 3: why would they do that? Why would they do that?
24:26
Speaker 3: Why would they push a hair brain screen? Is it
24:28
Speaker 3: because of stupidity or is it they don't give a fuck?
24:32
Speaker 3: What the excuse is. Let's get the party started. I
24:36
Speaker 3: think let's get some missiles, let's get some new planes.
24:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so boom, but okay, so we can see
24:42
Speaker 2: right in front of us, right here where Netanyahu convinced
24:45
Speaker 2: Trump this would be easy, and then it wasn't. I
24:47
Speaker 2: think that's the same thing here. Iraq was supposed to
24:49
Speaker 2: be easy, and it was easy. After all, right, you
24:50
Speaker 2: send the Marines to take Bagdad. They could take it that.
24:53
Speaker 2: The third Infantry Division in the Marines were done regime
24:57
Speaker 2: changing the place in what five weeks? But then it
25:00
Speaker 2: was a matter of occupying the place and the whole
25:03
Speaker 2: thing devolving into civil war and all that. And I think, well,
25:07
Speaker 2: I'll put it to you like this, in the clean break,
25:09
Speaker 2: we might be in coping with crumbling states, but it
25:12
Speaker 2: might even Yeah, I think it's in coping with crumbling states,
25:15
Speaker 2: which is the same thing.
25:17
Speaker 3: Oh we back, sorry that we had stupid glitch again?
25:21
Speaker 3: Did we? Did we get a new computer?
25:23
Speaker 5: I've done everything even Yeah, I talked to the company
25:26
Speaker 5: that I'll.
25:26
Speaker 3: Know, motherfucker's firm. Anyway, I'm sorry, let me un I
25:33
Speaker 3: can I ask you?
25:34
Speaker 2: Yes? Sure?
25:34
Speaker 3: So?
25:35
Speaker 2: Well on the stupidity or the plan, I think, look,
25:37
Speaker 2: plan A is it'll be fine, and then plan B is, well,
25:41
Speaker 2: at least we can make some money and push this
25:44
Speaker 2: thing on and let both sides fight and weaken each other,
25:47
Speaker 2: and these kinds of attitudes for sure.
25:49
Speaker 3: But that's the point, Like, did they genuinely think that
25:52
Speaker 3: this plan would work? Or was this plan just a
25:55
Speaker 3: feasible excuse to talk them in to get in the parties?
26:00
Speaker 2: I have one good argument in your favorite there for sure,
26:03
Speaker 2: which would be Senator Joe Biden at the time insisted
26:07
Speaker 2: that we break Iraq into three creation Yeah, right there
26:12
Speaker 2: with the worst, that we draw these lines and essentially
26:17
Speaker 2: in forest ethnic clensing or sectarian cleansing and create three
26:21
Speaker 2: sort of mini states with any rock. And you know,
26:24
Speaker 2: Anthony Blincoln was his right hand man then, and I
26:26
Speaker 2: mean that's who these guys are, is you know, very
26:31
Speaker 2: very much. I mean Israel first, Israel instead types there
26:37
Speaker 2: is something before the clean break called the Odead Yanan
26:39
Speaker 2: Plan from I believe nineteen eighty one, which is a
26:43
Speaker 2: real riot to read this Israeli strategist. And the premise
26:48
Speaker 2: of the thing is that the Soviet Union is certain
26:50
Speaker 2: to conquer the entire planet talking about one world government.
26:52
Speaker 2: We're about to have one world communism run out of Moscow,
26:55
Speaker 2: and poor little Israel is going to be all alone
26:57
Speaker 2: out here. So we have no choice to smash every
27:01
Speaker 2: near Arab state into as many warring tribal pieces as
27:04
Speaker 2: we possibly can, to weaken all of them relative to us.
27:07
Speaker 2: It's this desperate strategy. Of course, the Soviet Union didn't
27:10
Speaker 2: exist anymore at all by the end of the decade,
27:12
Speaker 2: but that was the premise for the thing, and this Ohen,
27:15
Speaker 2: Here's what I was going to say before the glitch
27:17
Speaker 2: was there is a statement in I think it's in
27:20
Speaker 2: Coping with Crumbling States where he kind of says, yeah,
27:24
Speaker 2: you know, these states are pretty artificial, and without you know,
27:27
Speaker 2: the bopist construct in Iraq and Syria, you would have
27:30
Speaker 2: these smaller tribal based type units. So then you know,
27:35
Speaker 2: in other words, if you can't have a completely compliant
27:39
Speaker 2: suck puppet, there might as well make them fight and
27:43
Speaker 2: destroy their countries. And that certainly happened in the case
27:45
Speaker 2: of Rocks, certainly happened in the case of Syria under
27:47
Speaker 2: Obama as well, where they just said, look, if we
27:50
Speaker 2: can't get the LCADA guys to sack Damascus and get
27:52
Speaker 2: rid of Asad, at least we can just destroy the place.
27:55
Speaker 3: Do you think there's a parallel in when we first
28:00
Speaker 3: went into Rock, like Desert Storm, it was very easy, right,
28:04
Speaker 3: relatively it was a minimum loss of American lives, and
28:09
Speaker 3: I think everybody got a little cocky.
28:11
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that absolute was part of that, just like
28:14
Speaker 2: what we just saw with Venezuela. It was so easy.
28:16
Speaker 2: And then yeah, I mean people asked me right after Venezuela,
28:19
Speaker 2: what do you think this means for Iran? And I
28:21
Speaker 2: was like, bad news, right, Like, nobody thinks we're going
28:24
Speaker 2: to go in there and kidnapped the Iyatola. But if
28:26
Speaker 2: you can put eyeballs on them, you can put a bomba.
28:28
Speaker 3: They killed them.
28:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's all you gotta do.
28:30
Speaker 3: And that didn't even help, of course, that's like, but yeah,
28:34
Speaker 3: is it true that whenever they've been negotiating with someone,
28:37
Speaker 3: Israel kills them.
28:39
Speaker 2: I think that happened at least a couple of times
28:41
Speaker 2: early in the war. Yeah, I mean that was what
28:43
Speaker 2: they said. In fact, was I forget if it was
28:45
Speaker 2: Vans or Trump who said, well, we can't say I
28:47
Speaker 2: think it was Trump said we can't say who we're
28:49
Speaker 2: negotiating with because they'll get killed. And like you're supposed
28:53
Speaker 2: to think that, what like hardliners in Iran will kill
28:56
Speaker 2: them for trying to negotiate, But no, this is the
28:58
Speaker 2: Israelis will kill him.
28:59
Speaker 3: You know that's wild. Yeah, that's wild. It's wild that
29:04
Speaker 3: it's true. One of the things that's not talked about
29:08
Speaker 3: at all since Iran, we rarely talked about is Ukraine.
29:14
Speaker 3: It's so strange how that kind of just left people's consciousness.
29:19
Speaker 3: It's like they now just concentrating entirely on this Iran thing.
29:23
Speaker 3: And the Ukraine thing is fascinating too, because it was
29:28
Speaker 3: one of the few wars that I saw leftists support.
29:31
Speaker 3: It was very interesting. It was like kind of right
29:34
Speaker 3: after they put the masks and the syringes down from
29:37
Speaker 3: their profiles, then it was Ukraine flags.
29:40
Speaker 2: Metzger had a joke about that. Did they like, Yeah,
29:43
Speaker 2: he starts off like, hey, invading Ukraine is bad? Can't
29:48
Speaker 2: we all agree on that? Like he really gives him
29:50
Speaker 2: like he like leans on, can't we all agree that
29:53
Speaker 2: it's bad? He's like, but it wasn't cure for COVID,
29:57
Speaker 2: you gotta admit. Yeah, and it was. They just switched
30:01
Speaker 2: from night to day on that. And then yeah, the
30:02
Speaker 2: other thing, and I look, a big part of that
30:04
Speaker 2: is Putin is a great stand in for Trump. If
30:07
Speaker 2: you're an angry liberal something, you got to be angry
30:10
Speaker 2: at something, then he represents. Now we're the common turn
30:15
Speaker 2: and the Russians are the more conservative Christian force and
30:18
Speaker 2: so like if not the Trump's a Christian, but you
30:20
Speaker 2: know what I mean, And they're anti right everything that
30:23
Speaker 2: the Russians are the right, not the Ukrainians are the left,
30:26
Speaker 2: but whatever in Russia is obviously the much larger country
30:33
Speaker 2: and the one that invaded that crossed the border first here,
30:36
Speaker 2: and they are the aggressor in the war. So it's
30:40
Speaker 2: as far as the narrative goes, it's easy to justify
30:43
Speaker 2: sticking up for those you know, plucky defenders, which is
30:47
Speaker 2: you know, I was actually surprised, but I shouldn't have been.
30:51
Speaker 2: Right when I went to Oxford and lost that debate,
30:53
Speaker 2: was that that was who was It wasn't not that
30:55
Speaker 2: they're leftist, but they're liberals, you know, or progressive type,
30:58
Speaker 2: you know, college kids, and they're just totally on the
31:00
Speaker 2: side of Ukraine. And in fact, the question of the
31:04
Speaker 2: debate was this House would rather go to war with
31:07
Speaker 2: Russia than lose Ukraine. And I thought that was just
31:11
Speaker 2: the most ludicrous thing in the whole world. That's not
31:13
Speaker 2: even debatable. They've got h bombs, seven thousand of them.
31:17
Speaker 2: We're not having a war with Russia. I don't even
31:19
Speaker 2: know what you're talking about this. And then I should
31:22
Speaker 2: have made my case better because they'd not like me
31:24
Speaker 2: or my case at all. They were so just staunchly
31:27
Speaker 2: for Ukraine that they were willing to support that that
31:31
Speaker 2: they think that Britain should get into a war with
31:33
Speaker 2: Russia over the Dawn Bass, which is just absurd. But
31:37
Speaker 2: I take responsibility for not framing my argument well enough.
31:40
Speaker 2: I just thought the question was so ridiculous in the
31:41
Speaker 2: first place, I would barely have to make my case.
31:43
Speaker 2: I just thought, I'll just make an h bomb joke
31:45
Speaker 2: and that'll be the end of that, you know, I said,
31:47
Speaker 2: haven't you ever seen Threads? Have you ever seen Threads?
31:49
Speaker 2: It's like the British version of the Day After where
31:51
Speaker 2: Margaret Thatcher gets some nuked in a no or it's
31:54
Speaker 2: a movie, and yeah, remember the Day After from nineteenth
31:56
Speaker 2: three of Steve Gutenberg. So this is the Russian version
31:59
Speaker 2: from the same time frame. And I was like, have
32:03
Speaker 2: you all seen Threads? Which of course they haven't. They're
32:05
Speaker 2: a bunch of little caps.
32:06
Speaker 3: Well, they probably think it's that social media app, Yeah, right,
32:09
Speaker 3: the Instagram one.
32:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
32:12
Speaker 3: We should talk about like how this whole thing got
32:15
Speaker 3: started in Ukraine, because most Americans don't even realize that
32:20
Speaker 3: the United States kind of overthrew the government there.
32:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely twice in ten years. Yeah, in the Orange
32:27
Speaker 2: Revolution of two thousand and four and in twenty fourteen,
32:31
Speaker 2: and in fact, you know, George Soros Bragg that he
32:33
Speaker 2: had really influenced the vote toward the pro Russian candidate
32:36
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four. You know, back ten years before that,
32:41
Speaker 2: he bragged about that in an interview with the New
32:45
Speaker 2: Yorker County Brook in the New Yorker magazine. He said,
32:48
Speaker 2: like real estate investment trusts, I make it happen with
32:52
Speaker 2: my investments, you know. And yeah, and look, I mean,
32:59
Speaker 2: Russia Ukraine have a long and difficult history, but along
33:03
Speaker 2: and the short of it for our purposes is that
33:05
Speaker 2: they wanted out at the end of the Soviet Union,
33:08
Speaker 2: and in fact, even embarrassingly for the Republicans, George Bush
33:13
Speaker 2: Senior and his government even intended the USSR to stay together.
33:17
Speaker 2: They wanted not communism, but they wanted Russia to be
33:21
Speaker 2: able to hang on to Belarus and Ukraine and at
33:23
Speaker 2: least some of the stands. But what happened was really
33:26
Speaker 2: the Russians under Boris Yeltsen overthrew the Soviet Union, the
33:30
Speaker 2: most powerful member of the Soviet Union, overthrew what was
33:33
Speaker 2: left of it. And it was actually in the aftermath
33:35
Speaker 2: of a hard line commedy coup in August of nineteen
33:38
Speaker 2: ninety one, which failed, and so it was Boris Yeltsen
33:41
Speaker 2: who staved the day but then ended up doing his
33:44
Speaker 2: own coup basically and just destroying what was left of
33:47
Speaker 2: the USSR and kicking mikhaal Gorbachov out.
33:51
Speaker 3: So why did the United States get involved in Ukraine
33:55
Speaker 3: and why did they stage a coup?
33:58
Speaker 2: Well, so it's been a contest for dominance there ever since, right,
34:01
Speaker 2: And so back to the Wolfowitz doctrine, And they talked
34:04
Speaker 2: about this in Rebuilding America's Defenses, the pn X strategy
34:09
Speaker 2: document from the nineteen nineties, nineteen ninety eight, I guess
34:12
Speaker 2: and I believe in in the defense planning guidance of that.
34:16
Speaker 2: He wrote nineteen ninety two Wolfowitz that we got to
34:19
Speaker 2: expand NATO into Eastern Europe. And this is the debate
34:23
Speaker 2: at the time was whether to include Russia or not.
34:25
Speaker 2: But and in fact in the Niser are some people
34:28
Speaker 2: expos who opposed expansion altogether. But then there was another
34:32
Speaker 2: school thought that just said, well, we'll expand, but we'll
34:34
Speaker 2: bring the Russians in. But then they never did, and
34:37
Speaker 2: so they ended up expanding the military alliance up to
34:40
Speaker 2: Russia's border in a threatening manner and in a way
34:43
Speaker 2: that did not include them at all. And they had
34:45
Speaker 2: alternatives like the Partnership for Peace and before that what
34:49
Speaker 2: we still have the OSSEE, the Organization for Security or
34:52
Speaker 2: Security and Cooperation in Europe, where those had been brought
34:56
Speaker 2: up as alternatives to NATO, where NATO would be more polite.
35:00
Speaker 2: This is what James Baker and under HB. Bush and
35:04
Speaker 2: Warren Christopher under Bill Clinton had promised the Russians. So
35:07
Speaker 2: we're going to make NATO a political organization, and we're
35:10
Speaker 2: going to have as a security organization it'll be the
35:14
Speaker 2: OSCEE or the PfP, which will include you guys, and
35:18
Speaker 2: which was not true. They're basically, you know, never really
35:21
Speaker 2: meant to live up to those promises. So it's not
35:26
Speaker 2: a perfect analogy. But imagine if America had lost the
35:28
Speaker 2: Cold War from all the spending in the nineteen eighties,
35:31
Speaker 2: and then the Soviets had come to dominate Western Europe,
35:34
Speaker 2: and then they started moving into the Caribbean, and then
35:36
Speaker 2: they started overthrowing the government in Canada when they voted wrong.
35:40
Speaker 2: And this is Ukraine as Russia's Canada, right, Kazakhstans their Mexico,
35:45
Speaker 2: Ukraine's their Canada. It's their most important neighboring state other
35:48
Speaker 2: than maybe Belarus. But the same difference here, and.
35:51
Speaker 3: So that narrative gets lost here.
35:55
Speaker 2: Yes it does, but it's so it's.
35:56
Speaker 3: Weird because it's so obvious when you lay it out
35:59
Speaker 3: like that, and when you could the agreement that was
36:00
Speaker 3: made at the fall of the Soviet Union that they
36:02
Speaker 3: wouldn't push arms closer to the border of Russia, and
36:06
Speaker 3: yet they consistently did.
36:07
Speaker 2: That absolutely And by the way, so let's talk about
36:09
Speaker 2: that for just a second, because people dispute that and
36:11
Speaker 2: say it's not true, but it is true. In fact,
36:13
Speaker 2: hw Bush gave the first promise to Gorbachev in Malta
36:18
Speaker 2: in December of nineteen eighty nine that if you let
36:21
Speaker 2: the Eastern European warsaw packed states go, not the Soviet republics,
36:26
Speaker 2: but the warsaw packed states, if you let them go,
36:29
Speaker 2: we promise not to take advantage, like full stop. That's it,
36:33
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. And then from there, and I cover
36:36
Speaker 2: all this in my book Provoked, and I it's even
36:40
Speaker 2: overkill on the research because I wasn't sure where to stop.
36:43
Speaker 2: So it's all there for you. Where it wasn't just
36:45
Speaker 2: on February of the ninth, It was all of these
36:47
Speaker 2: meetings over the course of months where the Americans, the
36:50
Speaker 2: British and especially the Germans, but with the Americans standing
36:54
Speaker 2: right there in many cases to affirm to the Russians,
36:58
Speaker 2: the Soviets and then the Russians over and over again
37:01
Speaker 2: that we are not coming, we are not going to
37:03
Speaker 2: integrate Poland, we're not going to integrate Hungary, ben Czechoslovakia
37:07
Speaker 2: which hadn't split apart yet, and we have no intention
37:11
Speaker 2: of doing that. And that was, you know, came from
37:13
Speaker 2: Hans Dietrich Genscher, the Foreign Minister of Great Britain, as
37:17
Speaker 2: well as Helmet Cole, the Chancellor, Margaret Thatcher and John Major,
37:21
Speaker 2: the prime ministers of England, and Douglas Hurd there foreign Minister,
37:27
Speaker 2: and even Francois Mitterrand, the President of France, and along
37:31
Speaker 2: with George Bush's government over and over again promised them
37:34
Speaker 2: that we're not going to do this, and then they
37:38
Speaker 2: just went ahead anyway. And the Clinton's uh, you know,
37:40
Speaker 2: went along with it too, And in fact, in the
37:44
Speaker 2: in the Clinton years, one of the major proponents of
37:46
Speaker 2: NATO expansion was a guy named Strobe Talbot, who originally
37:49
Speaker 2: opposed it. And by the way, so when all of
37:53
Speaker 2: anybody in that era, whenever they on on on America
37:57
Speaker 2: side or on the West side. Whenever they opposed this,
38:00
Speaker 2: he was always for one reason. There was no variety
38:03
Speaker 2: of reasons. There's always one reason. This is an unnecessary
38:06
Speaker 2: provocation against the Russians. These are our friends who just
38:10
Speaker 2: overthrew the Communists for us, So why would we pick
38:13
Speaker 2: a fight with them, Why would we disrespect them. We
38:16
Speaker 2: should be doing everything we can to integrate them into
38:18
Speaker 2: the West, into Europe, into everything. And this is totally
38:21
Speaker 2: unnecessarily antagonistic. That was the one and only reason. And
38:25
Speaker 2: it was brought up by a lot of people, including
38:29
Speaker 2: famously George Kennan, who had coined the containment policy against
38:32
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union in the nineteen forties, and you know,
38:37
Speaker 2: had been ambassadored in Moscow, and he was the one
38:39
Speaker 2: who said we got to contain Communism. Well, now he's
38:42
Speaker 2: saying we should not be trying to contain Russia when
38:45
Speaker 2: they didn't do anything. And he said, in fact, in
38:47
Speaker 2: an interview in The New York Times in nineteen ninety eight,
38:50
Speaker 2: Kennon said, and he was the most highly respected Russia
38:52
Speaker 2: expert out of all of the old so called foreign
38:54
Speaker 2: policy graviers. And he told Thomas Freeman the New York Times.
38:57
Speaker 2: He goes, I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen here. Okay,
39:00
Speaker 2: expand NATO right up close to Russia, and we're going
39:03
Speaker 2: to get a negative reaction from the Russians. And then
39:06
Speaker 2: as soon as we do, all of the people who
39:08
Speaker 2: are now telling us that will never happen, don't worry
39:11
Speaker 2: about it, will then say, aha, See that's how the
39:14
Speaker 2: Russians are. That's why we have to do this, which
39:17
Speaker 2: is exactly what they say. Now, See the Russians are coming.
39:20
Speaker 2: That's why we need NATO more than ever before. When
39:22
Speaker 2: it was building up NATO more than ever before, was
39:25
Speaker 2: what created this antagonistic relationship in the first place. And
39:28
Speaker 2: then you know, and I should specify, I am from Austin, Texas.
39:33
Speaker 2: I don't have any connection of Russa whatsoever. I don't
39:35
Speaker 2: give a damn about Russia whatsoever. Has nothing to do
39:38
Speaker 2: with favoring their side of the story or whatever. This
39:40
Speaker 2: is like whatever, what can I say? I reluctantly admit that.
39:45
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying this is a good enough reason
39:46
Speaker 2: for war, but I'm saying that this is true. Essentially
39:50
Speaker 2: in his declaration of war, when Putin said that basically,
39:54
Speaker 2: we tried independence, we tried letting Ukraine be an independent country,
39:58
Speaker 2: but it turns out that no, it just became a
40:00
Speaker 2: colony of the United States of America's totally controlled by America.
40:04
Speaker 2: So well, but we're just not going to stand for that,
40:07
Speaker 2: you know, So we're gonna interview, We're gonna do what
40:09
Speaker 2: we have to do at least to mitigate that. If
40:11
Speaker 2: America is still going to control Kiev, then at the
40:13
Speaker 2: very least we're going to control the don Bass and
40:16
Speaker 2: the southeastern coast here. And so I'm not saying that's
40:20
Speaker 2: a good enough reason to do what he did, but
40:21
Speaker 2: I'm saying that was essentially true that America had, you know,
40:25
Speaker 2: almost like it was a British colony, just had total
40:28
Speaker 2: sock puppets in charge of that country. In fact, there's
40:31
Speaker 2: a clip that I quote extensively. It's one of the
40:33
Speaker 2: only block quotes in my book because I got rid
40:35
Speaker 2: of almost all in for space. But I think I
40:37
Speaker 2: have the block quote of Victoria Nulan testifying that's Robert
40:39
Speaker 2: Kagan's wife, very important neoconservative, worked in Dick Cheney's office
40:43
Speaker 2: in the w Bush Ears and everything helped you know
40:46
Speaker 2: cause all of this problem. And she goes on and
40:49
Speaker 2: on describing the level of what can you call it
40:54
Speaker 2: infiltration essentially of the Ukrainian government by the United States
40:57
Speaker 2: that she says, we have our people, State Department people,
41:00
Speaker 2: and who are working at every level of the Ukrainian government,
41:04
Speaker 2: throughout their police services, throughout their military, throughout their judicial branch,
41:09
Speaker 2: throughout you know, and out in the provinces and everywhere.
41:13
Speaker 2: We're doing everything we can to control everything that's going
41:16
Speaker 2: on in that country. And you know, the WikiLeaks are
41:19
Speaker 2: very beneficial on this story because they show where the
41:22
Speaker 2: Americans understand clearly by the Americans, I mean Washington, the
41:26
Speaker 2: State Department, whatever, these guys that they know good and
41:31
Speaker 2: well that Ukraine is deeply divided, especially politically on questions
41:36
Speaker 2: like whether they should join the NATO Alliance or whether
41:38
Speaker 2: they rather be closer to Russia try to split the
41:41
Speaker 2: difference and stay out of it, or anything like that.
41:44
Speaker 2: And so they say, well, so we just have to push.
41:46
Speaker 2: Then we'll just have to spend tens of millions of
41:48
Speaker 2: dollars on massive propaganda campaigns, and we'll just have to
41:50
Speaker 2: make sure to support the candidates that support us and
41:53
Speaker 2: our wishes and essentially it's America. You know, the book
41:56
Speaker 2: is called Sorry, I keep mentioning the book with it's
41:58
Speaker 2: how Washington, How Washington started the New Cold War Russia
42:02
Speaker 2: and the catastrophe in Ukraine. I'm not blaming on Kiev.
42:05
Speaker 2: I'm blaming it on essentially Bush Senior through Joe Biden,
42:09
Speaker 2: that they all of them had such a hamhanded Russia
42:12
Speaker 2: policy that it led to this.
42:14
Speaker 3: It's just fascinating that this perspective is not being discussed
42:18
Speaker 3: or wasn't being discussed when it was in the news
42:20
Speaker 3: every day when people were talking about Russia and Ukraine.
42:23
Speaker 3: It was always that Russia had done this horrible thing
42:26
Speaker 3: and attacked Ukraine, which was horrible, of course, but no
42:29
Speaker 3: one gave any background. No one really talked about and
42:33
Speaker 3: made the comparison to imagine if the Soviet Union or
42:37
Speaker 3: Russia rather took over Canada, you know, or was proxy
42:40
Speaker 3: in Canada.
42:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, or if they went back at all, they
42:43
Speaker 2: would go, well, you know, this all started when Russia
42:46
Speaker 2: sees Crimea. But of course they seized Crimea as a
42:49
Speaker 2: direct reaction to America overthrowing the government and the so
42:52
Speaker 2: called Revolution of Dignity in February twenty fourteen, and so
42:57
Speaker 2: then it's a complicated mess. Crimea happened after that, But
43:01
Speaker 2: they just want to start history at places where it's
43:04
Speaker 2: the most convenient for them.
43:06
Speaker 3: And there's also the control of Ukraine is also connected
43:11
Speaker 3: to resources, right, I mean, there's immense amounts of minerals,
43:16
Speaker 3: natural gas, There's trillions of dollars of that stuff there
43:20
Speaker 3: that and this also connects Parisma to the Biden administration, right.
43:26
Speaker 2: Yes, So like I would not buy anyone arguing that
43:32
Speaker 2: these minerals or these resources are somehow crucial for the
43:36
Speaker 2: United States of America, for the American people, for our
43:39
Speaker 2: betterment or anything like that. Only as ros Paro called them,
43:43
Speaker 2: the special interests, right, Chevron wants that oil and Cargill
43:49
Speaker 2: and Archer Daniels, Midland and Monsanto have investments in those grains,
43:54
Speaker 2: and so this is about them, But that isn't necessarily us.
43:58
Speaker 2: You look at you know, whatever benefit they have to
44:00
Speaker 2: our GNP or GDP is negligible, certainly not worth starting
44:04
Speaker 2: a war or anything like that. These are all the
44:06
Speaker 2: free riders. These are you know, the excuse makers for
44:09
Speaker 2: this kind of policy. But essentially, I think what it
44:12
Speaker 2: really is is just trying to keep Russia weak and
44:15
Speaker 2: off balance as much as possible. And you know, like
44:18
Speaker 2: there's this really important Rand Corporation study that was published
44:23
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. So the Rand Corporation is a Pentagon
44:27
Speaker 2: sponsored think tank, but it's out in Santa Barbara. They
44:30
Speaker 2: put it in California, so it would be somehow a
44:32
Speaker 2: little bit less political, a little insulated from East Coast stuff,
44:35
Speaker 2: and be able to come up with their thing. But
44:37
Speaker 2: that's basically who they are. So of all the think tanks,
44:39
Speaker 2: they're like the most directly connected to the Pentagon itself,
44:42
Speaker 2: and they came up with this thing. It's called extending Russia.
44:45
Speaker 2: And by extending Russia they mean over extending them, in
44:49
Speaker 2: other words, how to provoke them into over extending themselves
44:53
Speaker 2: right during the Cold War, right exactly. So what cause
44:57
Speaker 2: small trouble for them in as many places as we can,
45:00
Speaker 2: just to bog them down with expenses and commitments. So
45:03
Speaker 2: we want to at that time, the pipeline wasn't complete yet,
45:06
Speaker 2: so we want to intervene with sanctions whatever we can
45:09
Speaker 2: to disrupt the nord Stream pipeline. They said, maybe we
45:12
Speaker 2: could try to overthrow the government of Belarus again, which
45:14
Speaker 2: they actually did in twenty twenty. They had done it
45:17
Speaker 2: before in two thousand and five and two thousand and one,
45:19
Speaker 2: failed all three times. Which if they did that, boy,
45:22
Speaker 2: that might lead right to a nuclear war, right there, man,
45:25
Speaker 2: you don't want to succeed in especially a bloody if
45:28
Speaker 2: it turned bloody, a coup and Belarus, my god. But anyway,
45:33
Speaker 2: then they said, we could increase weapons to the Jahadis
45:37
Speaker 2: in Syria, we could try to overthrow the government at Kazakhstan,
45:42
Speaker 2: we could increase support for the Ukrainian military. And what's
45:47
Speaker 2: interesting about this, so in other words, see how they're saying,
45:50
Speaker 2: do all these things to essentially agitate the Russians, to
45:52
Speaker 2: keep them off balanced, to keep them bogged down, to
45:55
Speaker 2: keep them spending money they can't afford to spend.
45:57
Speaker 3: Right.
45:58
Speaker 2: But then all throughout it they have all these disclaimers
46:02
Speaker 2: where they say, don't listen to us. If you do this,
46:05
Speaker 2: it'd be terrible. Like if you overthrow the government of Belarus,
46:10
Speaker 2: the Russians might just invade it immediately and station nuclear
46:14
Speaker 2: weapons there. To make the point, right, if we support
46:18
Speaker 2: the Jahadas in Syria, they could break out of the
46:20
Speaker 2: Italy province and sack Damascus, and then we'd have an
46:23
Speaker 2: al Qaeda government in Damascus, which is of course exactly
46:25
Speaker 2: what happened at the end of twenty four They said,
46:28
Speaker 2: we could increase support for the what was then the
46:31
Speaker 2: ongoing civil war that had broken out after the revolution
46:35
Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen. We could increase support for the Ukrainian
46:40
Speaker 2: side of that or the Kiev side of that war.
46:44
Speaker 2: But then that could provoke the Russians into a full
46:46
Speaker 2: scale invasion of the country, which would of course be
46:49
Speaker 2: terrible for Belaru, I mean for Ukraine, and terrible for
46:52
Speaker 2: the United States at a massive expense for US, a
46:55
Speaker 2: humiliation for as far as our international standing of prestige,
46:58
Speaker 2: and of course untold chaos for the people of Ukraine.
47:03
Speaker 2: And so we better be real careful about pursuing these policies.
47:07
Speaker 2: And then I swear you look at how Biden ran things,
47:10
Speaker 2: and it was like he got that memo just without
47:12
Speaker 2: any of the disclaimers, and they just went ahead and
47:14
Speaker 2: did all of these things, and in fact they were
47:17
Speaker 2: doing they were messing around. It was actually the last
47:20
Speaker 2: year of Trump that they tried to overthrow Belarus. So
47:23
Speaker 2: that was independent of Biden's wishes that was already going on,
47:27
Speaker 2: and then they were messing around in Kazakhstan in January
47:30
Speaker 2: of twenty two, right on the Evil War, right when
47:33
Speaker 2: you might have hoped that the entire pressure in Washington
47:38
Speaker 2: was to try to figure out a way to avoid war,
47:41
Speaker 2: to prevent this from breaking out. What kind of deal
47:43
Speaker 2: might we have to make with Putin to try to
47:45
Speaker 2: prevent him from invading Ukraine as they're threatening to do,
47:48
Speaker 2: and we're building up their forces in preparation for it.
47:51
Speaker 2: And then when they do, they support an armed insurrection
47:55
Speaker 2: in Kazakhstan, which is that's the big one, right on
47:58
Speaker 2: Russia's southern border there. Out of all stands, it's the
48:00
Speaker 2: most important one, which is just madness. And it goes
48:04
Speaker 2: to show that that's essentially what they're up to when
48:06
Speaker 2: it comes to that, is just you know, if we
48:08
Speaker 2: can't overthrow Putin, we're going to still weaken him, hemim in,
48:12
Speaker 2: surround him, agitate him, and force him to make commitments.
48:15
Speaker 2: And of course this is what this is why the
48:17
Speaker 2: war's been going on for four years. America could tell Kiev,
48:21
Speaker 2: under Biden or under Trump that look, you guys are
48:23
Speaker 2: just going to have to compromise here. Obviously you've lost,
48:26
Speaker 2: you know, all of Luhansk and most of don Yeesk,
48:29
Speaker 2: and you know at least half of Ziprosia and Kurshan,
48:33
Speaker 2: and so just make a deal, figure it out, and
48:35
Speaker 2: we're not supporting you anymore. Instead, what they say, remember
48:38
Speaker 2: they said over and over again, we want to inflict
48:40
Speaker 2: a strategic defeat on Russia. Russia might win the war,
48:43
Speaker 2: or but no, we promise they won't. But yeah, but
48:46
Speaker 2: if it takes a long time. Good And in fact,
48:49
Speaker 2: I have a collection of quotes in the book where
48:51
Speaker 2: politicians and pundits and all these people would say, and
48:57
Speaker 2: maybe they still say this, we're getting such a good
49:00
Speaker 2: bang for our buck in Ukraine because just think about it,
49:05
Speaker 2: Russian soldiers are dying, but American soldiers are not. So
49:10
Speaker 2: all we got to do is we just give them
49:12
Speaker 2: money in then the go fight. And then sometimes they
49:14
Speaker 2: wouldn't even make any reference to the Ukrainian soldiers at all.
49:17
Speaker 2: Hundreds of thousands of whom have been killed, hundreds of
49:20
Speaker 2: thousands of whom have been horrifically maimed. A major part
49:26
Speaker 2: of this country completely destroyed, huge segments of their population
49:31
Speaker 2: fleeing the country as refugees, many of whom to never
49:34
Speaker 2: come home again. Right, the total destabilization of their culture
49:38
Speaker 2: and society in every way. And then but you can
49:42
Speaker 2: tune into Fox News or Hell the Democrats too talking
49:44
Speaker 2: about maybe worse. Oh, but we're getting such a good
49:47
Speaker 2: bang for our buck because we're killing Russians. We're sending
49:49
Speaker 2: them home in body bags, We're sending them home in coffins.
49:52
Speaker 2: We're even killing their generals in the field. But none
49:56
Speaker 2: of our guys are dying he he, as though Theians
50:00
Speaker 2: don't matter at all, and that's the way they think
50:02
Speaker 2: of it. This is inflicting costs on the Russians. Joe
50:05
Speaker 2: Biden would say that over and over again. It's almost
50:07
Speaker 2: like the underpants Gnomes thing with the first he steal
50:09
Speaker 2: the underpants, then question mark, question mark, question mark, and
50:11
Speaker 2: then profit. I'm not really sure.
50:13
Speaker 3: I don't know what.
50:14
Speaker 2: Oh, in South Park, the poor I think it's butters
50:17
Speaker 2: the underpants and homes are stealings underwear and they're trying
50:19
Speaker 2: to explain how this is supposed to work, and they
50:21
Speaker 2: don't really have it worked out what they're going to
50:23
Speaker 2: do with the underpants, But they're sure, they're going to
50:25
Speaker 2: make a lot of money in the end. And that's
50:27
Speaker 2: the same kind of thing here where they skip the
50:28
Speaker 2: step about well, is this really weakening Vladimir Putin's regime
50:33
Speaker 2: or maybe it's strengthening his regime, Is it, you know,
50:37
Speaker 2: increasing American power and influence in the region, or in fact,
50:41
Speaker 2: we're shown as sort of a paper tiger ourselves, and
50:44
Speaker 2: we've done more than you know, you could have imagined
50:47
Speaker 2: to push Russia towards China and towards the rest of
50:50
Speaker 2: eur Asia. You know, Joe Biden is essentially deliberately trying
50:55
Speaker 2: to prevent them from being part of European civilization and
50:59
Speaker 2: to emphasize their turn to the east. That seems to
51:03
Speaker 2: me to be a terrible mistake, you know, and I
51:06
Speaker 2: think part of it is part of the longer term
51:08
Speaker 2: Cold war with China too. And you hear them talk
51:12
Speaker 2: about this, Joe, they'll say, you know, essentially Russia's friends
51:16
Speaker 2: with China. So there's two things we can do there.
51:18
Speaker 2: And this is what I think Trump would prefer to do,
51:20
Speaker 2: would be just make friends with Russia and pull them
51:23
Speaker 2: away from China. Maybe he's already decided too late for that,
51:26
Speaker 2: or he doesn't know how. And then the other side
51:29
Speaker 2: was no lure Russia into Eastern Europe. Bogged them down,
51:33
Speaker 2: so they're no use to China, you know, weaken their power,
51:37
Speaker 2: inflict them on them, this strategic defeat in Ukraine, so
51:41
Speaker 2: that then they won't be as useful to China in
51:44
Speaker 2: our Cold war with them or worse, and which I
51:47
Speaker 2: think is stupid and didn't work. I think that was
51:49
Speaker 2: the choice that Joe Biden made and I think it
51:53
Speaker 2: was totally wrong because it just strengthened the relationship between
51:56
Speaker 2: Russia and China. The Russians have a huge new pipeline
51:59
Speaker 2: that they open, well that new about twelve years ago
52:02
Speaker 2: that they opened to China, and they keep adding to
52:05
Speaker 2: it so they're able to sell all the hydrocarbons they
52:07
Speaker 2: want and the Chinese will burn every hydrocarbon you got,
52:11
Speaker 2: so you know, they really don't need Europe. You know,
52:14
Speaker 2: Joe Biden kicked them out and basically solidified their economic
52:17
Speaker 2: break with Europe totally unnecessarily, but in a way that
52:22
Speaker 2: didn't really hurt Russia.
52:25
Speaker 3: And the blowing up of the North Stream pipeline was
52:27
Speaker 3: a part of this. This was the to disconnect their
52:30
Speaker 3: oil supply or the natural gas supply to Europe.
52:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, more specifically, right, it was to make
52:38
Speaker 2: this break between to solidify the break between Germany and Russia.
52:42
Speaker 2: It's the previous German Chancellor, Angela Merkel. She had this
52:45
Speaker 2: project she called Eurasian Home and what she was trying
52:49
Speaker 2: to do is balance American and Russian interests in Europe.
52:54
Speaker 2: And then they were closing down all their nuclear stuff,
52:57
Speaker 2: all the green movement, you know, environmental stuff that closed
52:59
Speaker 2: down all their new clear in Germany. And then the
53:01
Speaker 2: idea was, don't worry, We're going to import all this
53:03
Speaker 2: clean burning ch four from the Russians. And then but
53:09
Speaker 2: to the Americans, this is the worst thing that could happen,
53:12
Speaker 2: would be an alliance or this strengthening any any part
53:16
Speaker 2: of any strengthening relationship or budding relationship between the Germans
53:20
Speaker 2: and the Russians, because with you know, German manufacturing power
53:25
Speaker 2: and Russian raw materials and both of their at least
53:28
Speaker 2: potential military strength that if they have an alliance and
53:32
Speaker 2: dominate Eastern Europe, they can keep everybody else out. And
53:35
Speaker 2: so I think that has always been the British and
53:37
Speaker 2: the American fear there and you know, there's a here
53:40
Speaker 2: in Austin. There's that sort of corporate CIA stratfor run
53:45
Speaker 2: by this guy George Friedman. What is it stratfor? It
53:48
Speaker 2: stands for strategic forecasting. They do dirty tricks, Yeah, it's
53:51
Speaker 2: here in Austin. They do some dirty tricks, but I
53:54
Speaker 2: think they mostly like do like you know, pseudo CIA
53:59
Speaker 2: briefings corporations and stuff, let them know what's going on
54:02
Speaker 2: in the world, that kind of thing. Mostly their emails
54:04
Speaker 2: got leaked on WikiLeaks dot org years ago, and you
54:08
Speaker 2: know they're involved. They're close with some of these Color
54:11
Speaker 2: Code of revolutionaries and anyway, I don't know them or anything,
54:14
Speaker 2: but their leader is a guy named George Friedman. And
54:17
Speaker 2: I'll give him credit. I know he opposed I rock
54:19
Speaker 2: Ward two in two thousand and three because I heard
54:21
Speaker 2: him on the radio back then. But I mean, I'm
54:23
Speaker 2: not vouching for the guys like a good guy order,
54:26
Speaker 2: but just to say he's sort of like a realist
54:29
Speaker 2: school foreign policy analyst type, not too ideological or anything
54:34
Speaker 2: like that. And he gave a speech years ago where
54:36
Speaker 2: he says, and this is the keywords primordial fear. This
54:40
Speaker 2: is the primordial fear of American you know, imperial policy
54:45
Speaker 2: planners is that you would have an alliance between the
54:48
Speaker 2: Germans and the Russians, and so anything that we can
54:51
Speaker 2: do to prevent that will do. Now, I don't know
54:53
Speaker 2: exactly who blew up that pipeline, but I'm sure they
54:56
Speaker 2: had at least the support of the United States. Seymour
54:58
Speaker 2: hersh has it that it was a American military guys
55:01
Speaker 2: who did it, which I think I don't know. And
55:04
Speaker 2: then there's a whole cover story about this yacht. And
55:07
Speaker 2: then there's six different versions of who rented this yacht
55:10
Speaker 2: and whether it was used, and whether it was robots
55:12
Speaker 2: or whether it was divers or whatever, and it's all
55:15
Speaker 2: meant to confuse.
55:16
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56:25
Speaker 2: The bottom line, nobody wants to know, right.
56:28
Speaker 3: Seymour Hirsch, what did he say happened?
56:30
Speaker 2: He said that it was miners based out of Pensacola, Florida,
56:36
Speaker 2: meaning not pickax miners or children, but meaning divers that
56:41
Speaker 2: go down and disable sea mines. That that was their expertise.
56:45
Speaker 2: Those are the guys that they sent to do it.
56:47
Speaker 2: And that was in I think he did that in
56:49
Speaker 2: the London review books or something like that. Is that disputed, yeah,
56:53
Speaker 2: and including by people who blame the Ukrainians and people
56:57
Speaker 2: who blame I don't know, like Polish or I guess
57:02
Speaker 2: Polish groups or whatever. They had all these different investigations
57:06
Speaker 2: that all led different directions. I know, Jeremy, I think
57:08
Speaker 2: Jeremy Scale had one version of it, and then James Bamford,
57:13
Speaker 2: who I really respect. He's the guy that wrote all
57:15
Speaker 2: the books about the National Security Agency over the years,
57:18
Speaker 2: and he had it that it was the Ukrainians and
57:21
Speaker 2: they used robots to do it, and he's you know,
57:23
Speaker 2: sussed that out through documents and stuff and decided that
57:25
Speaker 2: that must have been what had happened. And you know,
57:27
Speaker 2: there so, I don't know, there's there's six different versions
57:30
Speaker 2: of it, and I have I'm not choosing which is
57:33
Speaker 2: the favorite here, but I think it's clearly was in
57:35
Speaker 2: America's interest, and of course Joe Biden and Victoria Neulan
57:39
Speaker 2: have both sort of cheekily said we're not going to
57:41
Speaker 2: let this proceed and if they do well, we will
57:44
Speaker 2: do whatever it takes to stop it. And so evidently
57:47
Speaker 2: they did, and you could see how they would consider
57:52
Speaker 2: that to be, you know, what they would be trying
57:54
Speaker 2: to prevent would be this strengthened relationship with Jeremy.
57:57
Speaker 3: Trust's going now so just pouring right into the ocean.
58:00
Speaker 2: Well, eventually they capped it, but I think it was
58:02
Speaker 2: the biggest release of methane into the atmosphere ever. It
58:05
Speaker 2: was a huge thing. It was a massive if you
58:08
Speaker 2: were a liberal, progressive, democrat, environmentalist type, that ought to
58:13
Speaker 2: be like the most offensive thing you ever heard of.
58:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's way worse than cowburbs. Oh yeah, they're worried
58:18
Speaker 3: about cowburbs.
58:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's centuries worth of calburbs.
58:21
Speaker 3: Centuries worth Jesus. So the Kazistan Kazakhstan thing i'd never
58:26
Speaker 3: heard of. I hadn't heard a peep about that. I
58:28
Speaker 3: had no idea that we were meddling Kazakhstan.
58:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was one of those where, much like what
58:34
Speaker 2: just happened in Iran in January, where there's a protest
58:38
Speaker 2: over some economic policy. I think in that case they
58:41
Speaker 2: had cut the gas ration or something like that, and
58:45
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's a country that's divided by ethnicity,
58:49
Speaker 2: those borders are in all the wrong places and whatever,
58:51
Speaker 2: so you have sort of the ruling cast and the
58:53
Speaker 2: people on the outs and whatever. So you had a
58:56
Speaker 2: big protest movement and then all of a sudden there's
58:58
Speaker 2: armed gangs of guys killed, and cops season police stations,
59:01
Speaker 2: trying to seize airports and this kind of thing. And
59:06
Speaker 2: then what happened was the Russians invaded, they sent regular
59:09
Speaker 2: troops across. They were asked by the government there to
59:12
Speaker 2: come and interview, and they sent troops. They crushed the insurrection.
59:15
Speaker 2: And then it was funny because Anthony Blincoln said, oh,
59:18
Speaker 2: there's a lesson. When the Russians come, they don't ever
59:20
Speaker 2: want to leave. And then the next day they turn
59:22
Speaker 2: around and left, and then they invaded Ukraine. They haven't
59:25
Speaker 2: left there since.
59:26
Speaker 3: But so, yeah, who were these insurrections.
59:30
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think presumably they worked
59:34
Speaker 2: for the CIA and probably the Turks or something, you know,
59:38
Speaker 2: I don't know. Just smirks, yeah, them too.
59:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so this whole thing was just what you
59:44
Speaker 3: were saying earlier, just to try to get Russia to
59:46
Speaker 3: be spread as then as possible, spend as much money
59:49
Speaker 3: as possible, caused as many problems in as many places
59:52
Speaker 3: as possible.
59:53
Speaker 2: In fact, the Saint George Friedman from Stratford, I think
59:56
Speaker 2: it's in that same speech or maybe a different where
59:59
Speaker 2: he says, Yeah, when Iran is doing a little bit better,
1:00:04
Speaker 2: you hit them. When Russia is doing better, you hit them.
1:00:07
Speaker 2: When China's achieving a thing or two, you hit them.
1:00:10
Speaker 2: You do whatever you can to always be Ethan with
1:00:12
Speaker 2: everybody all the time in order to you know, that's
1:00:16
Speaker 2: how to press your advantage, which I think is totally
1:00:18
Speaker 2: just short sighted. It's high time preference, you know, sort
1:00:21
Speaker 2: of government thinking right that like, well, if we can
1:00:24
Speaker 2: get away with this now, we should without really thinking
1:00:27
Speaker 2: about the long term consequence. In fact, that was one
1:00:30
Speaker 2: of the things that failed to impress at Oxford that
1:00:32
Speaker 2: I brought up that I thought was crucial. That is
1:00:34
Speaker 2: in my book is a Strobe Talbot, Bill Clinton's guy
1:00:37
Speaker 2: who originally opposed NATO expansion and then later championed it.
1:00:43
Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, when it was the middle of the war,
1:00:47
Speaker 2: the Civil War so called, with America supporting Kiev and
1:00:51
Speaker 2: the Russian supporting the so called rebels on the other side,
1:00:55
Speaker 2: a New York Times reporter named Keith Gessen went and
1:00:58
Speaker 2: interviewed Strobe Talbot and it just kind of went without
1:01:03
Speaker 2: saying that, like, clearly, what is going on here is
1:01:06
Speaker 2: the project of NATO expansion has sort of blown up
1:01:08
Speaker 2: and caused all these problems. You know, what are we
1:01:11
Speaker 2: going to do? And what do you think now? Pal
1:01:13
Speaker 2: I forgot exactly what you're phrase of. It is sort
1:01:14
Speaker 2: of you know, what do you have to say for yourself,
1:01:16
Speaker 2: Strob And so Strobe Talbas says, well, listen, he goes,
1:01:20
Speaker 2: when you're in power, you have one job, and that
1:01:24
Speaker 2: is to pursue your nation's national interests. And if you
1:01:28
Speaker 2: don't do that, well, then you won't be in power
1:01:30
Speaker 2: very long. So that was what we had to do.
1:01:33
Speaker 2: But then he says, now, maybe should we have had
1:01:38
Speaker 2: a higher, wiser conception of our national interest? Maybe? In
1:01:45
Speaker 2: other words, at the time, what they were thinking is
1:01:47
Speaker 2: we want Lockheed dollars and we want Polish votes for
1:01:50
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six Illinois crucial swing state, right So or
1:01:55
Speaker 2: was I don't know if it still is. H So
1:01:58
Speaker 2: that's why we got to do this, because it's in
1:01:59
Speaker 2: america national interest that Bill Clinton get reelected. We all
1:02:02
Speaker 2: get to keep our jobs. So we're gonna make these
1:02:05
Speaker 2: promises to these people and pursue this policy for our
1:02:09
Speaker 2: narrow interests as rulers of the empire. But then, if
1:02:14
Speaker 2: he had had a higher, wiser conception of America's national interest,
1:02:18
Speaker 2: he might have thought, wow, are we scheduling a military
1:02:21
Speaker 2: conflict with Russia for the next century. Maybe we shouldn't
1:02:24
Speaker 2: do that. Maybe we should look at it like, actually,
1:02:27
Speaker 2: nothing in the world is more important than America continuing
1:02:30
Speaker 2: to get along with the Russians and again when the
1:02:34
Speaker 2: Communists are long gone. So whatever problem you have with
1:02:37
Speaker 2: these guys, it ain't Stalinism and it ain't evangelical Marxism
1:02:41
Speaker 2: at the point of a rifle, right, I mean, this
1:02:44
Speaker 2: is just whatever it is, we can deal with it.
1:02:46
Speaker 2: And so no, they chose the lower, dumber conception of
1:02:50
Speaker 2: America's national interests instead of the higher wiser one, and
1:02:53
Speaker 2: they blew it.
1:02:54
Speaker 3: You know, is there anyone that's ever made the argument
1:02:58
Speaker 3: to you, like where you've had these debates where you
1:03:02
Speaker 3: have a utopian perspective on international relations and that this
1:03:07
Speaker 3: libertarian ideology of like staying out of people's business stand
1:03:11
Speaker 3: out of the what you'll do if you don't fuck
1:03:14
Speaker 3: with the Russians, you don't keep them spending, you don't
1:03:16
Speaker 3: keep them stretched out, they'll just amass more and more
1:03:19
Speaker 3: power and then they'll start to try to take over
1:03:22
Speaker 3: what was traditionally the Soviet Union what was it originally
1:03:25
Speaker 3: the Soviet Union?
1:03:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it just so happens, right that America
1:03:31
Speaker 2: never leaves anybody alone. So we just don't have a
1:03:34
Speaker 2: controlled experiment, right, We're constantly provoking and everything that we
1:03:38
Speaker 2: see them do is clearly a reaction. And it's just
1:03:41
Speaker 2: when we talk about terrorism again, I'm not in any
1:03:44
Speaker 2: way justifying it, but I'm just saying, we have so
1:03:47
Speaker 2: much intervention preceding the terrorism, you have to be able
1:03:50
Speaker 2: to attribute that. Yes, Now, so how would things be otherwise?
1:03:53
Speaker 2: For example, if H. W. Bush had just said, Okay,
1:03:55
Speaker 2: well we won the Cold War, Patty Cannon's right, let's
1:03:59
Speaker 2: just come home, and had brought the empire home from Europe,
1:04:02
Speaker 2: then what would happen is the Germans would have reunified,
1:04:05
Speaker 2: and then they would have joined into a new European
1:04:08
Speaker 2: Union Army with the British and the French and probably
1:04:11
Speaker 2: the Poles. And then it would have been on them
1:04:14
Speaker 2: to keep the peace between each other, to police the
1:04:18
Speaker 2: smaller countries in their region, and hopefully strike a long
1:04:22
Speaker 2: term security partnership with the new Red, White, and Blue
1:04:25
Speaker 2: Republican Russians. And you know, if people want to say,
1:04:29
Speaker 2: but in fact, the other side in that debate at Oxford,
1:04:32
Speaker 2: Daniel Fried said, yeah, but it was Poland wanted to
1:04:34
Speaker 2: join our alliance. It's not like we made them they
1:04:37
Speaker 2: wanted to. But the thing is, yet they might have
1:04:40
Speaker 2: reason to fear Russia based on old things. But the
1:04:42
Speaker 2: question is why are we obligated to be the guaranteur
1:04:46
Speaker 2: of their independence. It's too far from here, and it's
1:04:50
Speaker 2: something that we're no good at. We only cause problems,
1:04:54
Speaker 2: and something that the other European states, who are all
1:04:58
Speaker 2: Western Christian capitalist democracies and friends of ours, that they
1:05:02
Speaker 2: can all work together and solve on their own. I mean,
1:05:04
Speaker 2: when Germany reunified, it's not like the comedies were taken over.
1:05:08
Speaker 2: It was the West that was dominant in the new Germany. Right,
1:05:11
Speaker 2: these are our pals. There's no reason a world that
1:05:14
Speaker 2: America should have had to have. Well, for example, like
1:05:16
Speaker 2: a big part part of the horrible war in the
1:05:21
Speaker 2: Balkans was because of a contest for power between America
1:05:24
Speaker 2: and Germany over who's going to be dominant in the
1:05:26
Speaker 2: former Yugoslavia. We should just let the Germans have it,
1:05:30
Speaker 2: or i mean, not have it and kill everybody or whatever.
1:05:32
Speaker 2: But god, it could hardly have been worse than what
1:05:34
Speaker 2: America helped to cause there by trying to compete with
1:05:37
Speaker 2: the Germans for dominance in a land that's quite literally
1:05:40
Speaker 2: six thousand miles from here.
1:05:41
Speaker 3: But is the fear from the American side that if
1:05:44
Speaker 3: you let other countries consolidate power, if you let them
1:05:48
Speaker 3: grow in influence without fucking with them and keeping them
1:05:51
Speaker 3: spread out like we're doing with Russia, Yeah, that they'll
1:05:54
Speaker 3: eventually get stronger and then they'll become a real problem.
1:05:57
Speaker 3: They keep them weak, keep them distracted, keep them engaged
1:06:01
Speaker 3: in this Ukraine conflict and Kazakhstan and anything else you
1:06:04
Speaker 3: can cook up, and that keeps them down.
1:06:07
Speaker 2: Well, it's like this. When it was the Cold War
1:06:10
Speaker 2: against the Kammui Soviet Union, I was a kid, and
1:06:13
Speaker 2: it's I'm not an expert on all of that history.
1:06:16
Speaker 2: I think there were real questions about the dangers of
1:06:20
Speaker 2: world communism at that time, where at least I'd be
1:06:22
Speaker 2: willing to hear you out. But since the end of
1:06:24
Speaker 2: the Cold War, No, there's just no justification for it, because,
1:06:29
Speaker 2: as Bill Hicks would say, right, like just spin the globe, man,
1:06:32
Speaker 2: there's no countries out there, right. Every power in Europe
1:06:34
Speaker 2: is our friend and no threat to us and mean
1:06:37
Speaker 2: us no harm whatsoever. There are no powers in Egypt.
1:06:40
Speaker 2: I mean part of me in Africa that count at all,
1:06:42
Speaker 2: except for Egypt, which is our friend. India will be
1:06:45
Speaker 2: a power in one hundred years from now. China is
1:06:49
Speaker 2: a rising power. But we've been their friends for fifty years,
1:06:51
Speaker 2: even when they were still communists. Nixon went and made
1:06:54
Speaker 2: friends with them in the early nineteen seventies and then
1:06:57
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union.
1:06:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then, But aren't they constantly infiltrating are different
1:07:03
Speaker 3: universities and play.
1:07:05
Speaker 2: I ain't endorsing that you can keep them out, but
1:07:08
Speaker 2: it che infiltration is.
1:07:09
Speaker 3: Kind of crazy, like what they're doing in America. It's
1:07:12
Speaker 3: like if you're saying there are friends, you know, the
1:07:14
Speaker 3: mayor of Arcadia just kind of that she was a
1:07:17
Speaker 3: communist spy. She's a fucking mayor of a city in California.
1:07:21
Speaker 2: I'm putting that on the FBI counter Intelligence Division. That
1:07:24
Speaker 2: should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.
1:07:27
Speaker 2: And no, I don't mean that they're totally benign, but look,
1:07:31
Speaker 2: worst case scenario, China invades or just surrounds and forcibly
1:07:36
Speaker 2: reintegrates Taiwan. That doesn't mean they're going to invade Korea.
1:07:40
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean they're going to invade Japan or Australia
1:07:43
Speaker 2: or have the appetite to want to do that. I
1:07:46
Speaker 2: think China's already a pretty overextended empire, and it's very
1:07:50
Speaker 2: poor and many parts of it, and they have something
1:07:53
Speaker 2: is it fourteen or fifteen neighbors that they got to
1:07:56
Speaker 2: deal with already. You know, their greatest ambition is to
1:08:00
Speaker 2: build this you know what highway and and and fiber
1:08:06
Speaker 2: optics and whatever from Shanghai to Lisbon. Right, this is
1:08:11
Speaker 2: what they call it. The why am I forgetting the
1:08:13
Speaker 2: name of the damn thing, the great, the great new
1:08:17
Speaker 2: highway they're trying to build all the way across Eurasia.
1:08:22
Speaker 2: They can't do that by intimidating everyone and lording it
1:08:25
Speaker 2: over everyone. They gotta cut through Tajikistan. You know, these
1:08:28
Speaker 2: are wild lands. They gotta make deals the whole way
1:08:31
Speaker 2: across if they're going to do that, if you know
1:08:33
Speaker 2: they there, and if you look at the way they're
1:08:36
Speaker 2: building their empire so far, it's all just briefcases, you know,
1:08:42
Speaker 2: government backed businesses making deals and buying up resources and stuff.
1:08:47
Speaker 2: But I really don't think that Hi Jimping is looking
1:08:52
Speaker 2: at George W. Bush and Barack Obama and Donald Trump
1:08:55
Speaker 2: and Joe Biden going, Yeah, that's what I want to
1:08:57
Speaker 2: do for my country, is all my own brains out
1:09:01
Speaker 2: trying to take over the whole rest of the planet Earth.
1:09:04
Speaker 3: Well, and you know, you know, just to point to
1:09:06
Speaker 3: what you're saying, it's like, China's not invading anybody. They're
1:09:10
Speaker 3: not They're not doing what we're doing.
1:09:11
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying they're nice guys or whatever, but
1:09:13
Speaker 2: they don't rule us, and there's no threat to North America.
1:09:16
Speaker 2: They have no need to pick a fight with us.
1:09:18
Speaker 2: People say, oh, you got all your microchip factories on Taiwan, Well,
1:09:21
Speaker 2: then move them to Austin. We've had advanced micro devices
1:09:24
Speaker 2: here for thirty years or whatever, thirty five years, maybe
1:09:27
Speaker 2: more than that. They can build that stuff here.
1:09:30
Speaker 3: They can, but they tried. It's very difficult to think
1:09:33
Speaker 3: about what they've got going on in Taiwan. The reason
1:09:35
Speaker 3: why Taiwan is the head of it is that they're
1:09:37
Speaker 3: far more advanced than anybody else in the world that
1:09:40
Speaker 3: doing it bring them. Yeah, you would have to. That's
1:09:44
Speaker 3: a lot.
1:09:45
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say it was something special
1:09:46
Speaker 2: about the salt water over there or something.
1:09:48
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, they're just way ahead of everybody else.
1:09:51
Speaker 3: I mean, in fact, didn't Samsung try to do a
1:09:54
Speaker 3: chip manufacturing plant in Texas and I think their yields
1:09:58
Speaker 3: were so poor. I don't know what the actual story
1:10:01
Speaker 3: with that is, so I'm speaking way over my pay
1:10:06
Speaker 3: skill here, but I think what it is is you
1:10:09
Speaker 3: have to have like certain tolerances when you're creating these chips,
1:10:14
Speaker 3: and they weren't achieving what they were trying to achieve
1:10:18
Speaker 3: despite spending an enormous amount of money. So it's not
1:10:21
Speaker 3: as simple as build a plant. The schematics are there,
1:10:24
Speaker 3: you just crank out chips like apparently, these chips are
1:10:28
Speaker 3: super complicated. To make sure world no not worth I'm
1:10:33
Speaker 3: not saying it's worth harding on, but I'm just saying
1:10:35
Speaker 3: that this idea just move them to Austin. I don't
1:10:38
Speaker 3: think it's that easy. I think chip manufacturing is one
1:10:42
Speaker 3: of the most complex technological challenges in twenty twenty six.
1:10:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we've had I don't
1:10:53
Speaker 2: know what all AMD does here, but I'm pretty sure
1:10:55
Speaker 2: that them and Samsung and others have, you know, all
1:11:00
Speaker 2: the facilities they.
1:11:01
Speaker 3: Need here to don't they should? That's quite true, or
1:11:05
Speaker 3: they should be able to. They maybe could with enough
1:11:09
Speaker 3: resources in time, and maybe stole all the fucking eggheads
1:11:13
Speaker 3: from Taiwan and bring them over here, all the geniuses
1:11:15
Speaker 3: that have figured out how to make the chips. Maybe
1:11:18
Speaker 3: maybe they wouldn't let them. But what happened with the
1:11:21
Speaker 3: Samsung chip factory.
1:11:25
Speaker 5: It's never been fully open and it's not done yet.
1:11:28
Speaker 2: Okay, but what was there was seems to be a
1:11:31
Speaker 2: rent a cop at some pretty fancy factories here, you know,
1:11:35
Speaker 2: back twenty five years ago.
1:11:37
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what kind of factories?
1:11:39
Speaker 2: Uh? I think it would have been a M D
1:11:42
Speaker 2: or and or Samsung. It's a pretty fancy like chip
1:11:47
Speaker 2: fabrication and stuff like that.
1:11:48
Speaker 3: Well, let's ask perplexity. Let's ask.
1:11:51
Speaker 2: And I did have a job being a rental cop
1:11:53
Speaker 2: because the escape parking garage is at work and do
1:11:56
Speaker 2: my homework at work. It was great.
1:11:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, easy job for the right, just free time. Let's
1:12:02
Speaker 3: ask for plexi, why are all the why are so
1:12:05
Speaker 3: many chip manufacturers in Taiwan? Because I'm pretty sure there's
1:12:11
Speaker 3: something about the advancements that they've made in chip manufacturing
1:12:15
Speaker 3: that no one's been able to replicate. Otherwise, it doesn't
1:12:17
Speaker 3: make sense that China wouldn't just make their own. Yeah,
1:12:20
Speaker 3: like they're right there.
1:12:21
Speaker 2: I read this thing not long ago about how like
1:12:24
Speaker 2: with the China's ai stuff, they figured out how to
1:12:27
Speaker 2: write their program where they need much less computing power
1:12:30
Speaker 2: to do the same kind of effort in the way
1:12:32
Speaker 2: that they did it, So they just found their own
1:12:34
Speaker 2: work around.
1:12:35
Speaker 3: Well. They also there's a lot of espionage going on too. Yeah,
1:12:38
Speaker 3: probably a lot of the world's chip manufacturers is in
1:12:41
Speaker 3: Taiwan because the island deliberately built a specialized ecosystem around
1:12:44
Speaker 3: contract chip fabrication foundries, then compounded that early lead with
1:12:51
Speaker 3: huge investment, dense clustering of suppliers and talent, and strong
1:12:55
Speaker 3: government support over several decades, so early strategic bet on manufacturing.
1:13:02
Speaker 3: Starting the nineteen eighties, Taiwan chose to focus on precision
1:13:05
Speaker 3: manufacturing fabricating chips for others instead of trying to build
1:13:08
Speaker 3: its own big consumer tech brands, and then their dominance
1:13:12
Speaker 3: at scale. Yeah, found it in eighty seven. Other words,
1:13:15
Speaker 3: Leading Contract TSMC, the leading contract chip manufacturer, produces over
1:13:21
Speaker 3: half of the world's advanced semiconductors and more than ninety
1:13:24
Speaker 3: percent of the most cutting edge nodes. Because of advanced fabs.
1:13:29
Speaker 3: Because advance fabs cost tens of billions of dollars and
1:13:31
Speaker 3: must run near full capacity to be profitable, only a
1:13:35
Speaker 3: few players can keep up, and Taiwan's leader kept pulling
1:13:39
Speaker 3: ahead as others dropped out. See that's what I'm talking about.
1:13:42
Speaker 3: I don't think it's easy.
1:13:45
Speaker 5: I that was saying was that no customers is what
1:13:47
Speaker 5: kept popping up. What is not there are no customers.
1:13:52
Speaker 2: I mean the thing is at the same time.
1:13:53
Speaker 5: Which problem delays because there's no one to buy them?
1:13:56
Speaker 3: Well why not?
1:13:57
Speaker 2: I don't huh Yeah, I meant then it's a lot.
1:14:02
Speaker 2: We got Samsung and Dell and a MD and IBM here.
1:14:05
Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like they can invest their own
1:14:07
Speaker 2: money and build their own whatever they need to right
1:14:10
Speaker 2: right the studio.
1:14:11
Speaker 3: But just read what they said there about the amount
1:14:13
Speaker 3: of money that's involved in keeping it running. Like I
1:14:17
Speaker 3: think they're so. I think the idea about Taiwan, and
1:14:20
Speaker 3: again this is not really my area of expertise, not
1:14:22
Speaker 3: that I have any, but that they're so far ahead
1:14:26
Speaker 3: that this process that they bet on early on, that
1:14:30
Speaker 3: they've got their manufacturing to this point where they've already
1:14:33
Speaker 3: invested this enormous amount of money, and the money then
1:14:36
Speaker 3: they have to keep them running constantly. I don't don't.
1:14:39
Speaker 3: I don't think it's simple. I don't think it's like
1:14:41
Speaker 3: car man.
1:14:42
Speaker 2: And then by no customers, you mean that essentially everybody
1:14:45
Speaker 2: needs these chips is already getting them from Taiwan. There's
1:14:48
Speaker 2: not much more demand than that.
1:14:49
Speaker 3: Well, not necessarily. It could just mean that they already
1:14:52
Speaker 3: have contracts that they don't need them because they've already,
1:14:55
Speaker 3: you know, made commitments to Taiwan chip manufacturers.
1:14:58
Speaker 2: On the other hand, if if Beijing is a military
1:15:02
Speaker 2: threat to Taiwan and these people would rather not be
1:15:07
Speaker 2: under the rule of Beijing in the Communist Party, then
1:15:10
Speaker 2: there's a pretty big incentive for them to move to Texas.
1:15:13
Speaker 3: There is. But again, what I'm saying is, I don't
1:15:16
Speaker 3: think it's a simple step. I don't think it's just
1:15:18
Speaker 3: like move here. I think it's an enormous investment in capital,
1:15:22
Speaker 3: like beyond normal things. And then I think to keep
1:15:25
Speaker 3: them running is an insane commitment. It's very difficult. And again,
1:15:29
Speaker 3: if Samsung doesn't have any if right now they don't
1:15:32
Speaker 3: have any customers, didn't they have an issue with yields? Though,
1:15:36
Speaker 3: wasn't there an issue with chips being made to standard.
1:15:42
Speaker 3: I think there was something else on top of that.
1:15:47
Speaker 5: I didn't see anything, but they're trying to get to
1:15:49
Speaker 5: to nanometer production. They started on trials and then there's
1:15:53
Speaker 5: rumors about why they have not moved into mass production.
1:15:59
Speaker 5: And that's it's all these articles are.
1:16:01
Speaker 2: Saying, Well, the Pentagon budget is a trillion and a
1:16:04
Speaker 2: half this year, let's just cut all that. Then we'll
1:16:08
Speaker 2: have plenty of capital freed.
1:16:09
Speaker 3: Up to pose. They're not going to do that.
1:16:12
Speaker 2: Who needs a world empire? Hey, look, one of the
1:16:15
Speaker 2: lessons of the war in Iran is the empire is
1:16:18
Speaker 2: good for nothing anyway. Right, we have h bombs that
1:16:20
Speaker 2: are enough to deter anyone from attacking us, But America's
1:16:23
Speaker 2: military empire in the Middle East is completely bankrupt. Right,
1:16:26
Speaker 2: That whole thing was a hollow bluff, and the Iranians
1:16:29
Speaker 2: just called it and we lost. I mean, our bases
1:16:31
Speaker 2: have been evacuated. They keep coming out. I think you
1:16:35
Speaker 2: talked about this on the show, right, how they were
1:16:37
Speaker 2: covering up the satellite photos. They weren't letting Americans have
1:16:41
Speaker 2: access to the satellite photos and you could get them online.
1:16:43
Speaker 2: Whatever other countries had them, and then you've had the
1:16:46
Speaker 2: New York Times, and I hate to site CNN, but
1:16:49
Speaker 2: it was a well sourced story where they got all
1:16:51
Speaker 2: these great satellite photos and went and showed how the
1:16:53
Speaker 2: Iranians reached out and touched eighteen bases from ir Bul
1:16:57
Speaker 2: in northern Iraq all the way down to Muscat, Oman
1:17:00
Speaker 2: and took out all radar stations and pitted our runways,
1:17:05
Speaker 2: hit refueling tankers and a wax radar planes and took
1:17:09
Speaker 2: out the entire not the entire, but a huge percentage
1:17:12
Speaker 2: of the overlapping radars for the missile defense systems over there,
1:17:17
Speaker 2: left our allies in Saudi Cutter, UAE, Bahrain wide open.
1:17:22
Speaker 2: You know, our Naval's fifth fleet station at Bahrain is
1:17:27
Speaker 2: destroyed and offline. I read this thing said, the Qataris
1:17:30
Speaker 2: are our main air base in the Middle East, the
1:17:33
Speaker 2: headquarters of Central Command, and our main air base at Cutter.
1:17:36
Speaker 2: The Qataris made a deal with Iran please stop hitting us,
1:17:40
Speaker 2: and they promised to not allow America to fly any
1:17:43
Speaker 2: sorties out of Cutter, our main air base during that war.
1:17:47
Speaker 2: And so as Justin Logan from the CATO Institute said, well,
1:17:51
Speaker 2: loo could as a military base that you can't fight
1:17:53
Speaker 2: a war from. You know, it's just like that, I
1:17:55
Speaker 2: know you see this right that old meme has says, well,
1:17:59
Speaker 2: if Iran doesn't want with us, how come they put
1:18:01
Speaker 2: their country so close to all our military basis and
1:18:03
Speaker 2: it has all the map of all our bases in
1:18:05
Speaker 2: the region. But the thing is what Donald Trump, I
1:18:08
Speaker 2: guess didn't understand was that those were a trip wire
1:18:11
Speaker 2: that were essentially we were making our own guys hostages
1:18:14
Speaker 2: of Iran to prevent war. Those bases were preventing war
1:18:18
Speaker 2: because it should have been out of the question that
1:18:21
Speaker 2: we would attack Iran because all those bases would be
1:18:23
Speaker 2: up for grabs against them.
1:18:25
Speaker 3: So how do how they say that poorly defended? That's
1:18:28
Speaker 3: what I don't understand, Like, how is it so easy
1:18:30
Speaker 3: for Iran to attack these bases? And did they have
1:18:34
Speaker 3: any for knowledge of this? Did they understand?
1:18:37
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so why they were so poorly defended. That's
1:18:40
Speaker 2: got to be political decision making among the brass right about, like, well,
1:18:43
Speaker 2: we don't want to admit that we need these fortifications
1:18:46
Speaker 2: in the first place, maybe or just the other generals
1:18:50
Speaker 2: said don't, so we don't want to fight with him
1:18:52
Speaker 2: about it for office politics reasons or what like.
1:18:54
Speaker 3: I don't know.
1:18:58
Speaker 2: Can't be because listen, I'll tell you man. In January
1:19:01
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, the chiefs took w Bush down
1:19:05
Speaker 2: to the tank in the basement of the Pentagon and
1:19:08
Speaker 2: they told them, look, we'll do your Raq surge where
1:19:11
Speaker 2: we increase the war in Iraq, but we really don't
1:19:15
Speaker 2: want to go to Iran. And they told them the
1:19:17
Speaker 2: reason why not is because the Iranians have escalation dominance,
1:19:22
Speaker 2: or at least we won't have it. I shouldn't have
1:19:24
Speaker 2: said that as overstating it. We will not have escalation
1:19:27
Speaker 2: dominance there. And that means that as a Pentagon term
1:19:30
Speaker 2: for if we're going to get into a fight, we
1:19:32
Speaker 2: don't want to fight at all unless we know we're
1:19:34
Speaker 2: going to control every stage of that conflict. And in
1:19:38
Speaker 2: the case of say, invading Iraq, there's nothing Saddam Hussein
1:19:42
Speaker 2: can do about it. Right, as Paul Wolfe Wood said,
1:19:44
Speaker 2: Iraq is doable. In the case of Iran, they have
1:19:49
Speaker 2: most importantly of all, a short and medium range missile
1:19:53
Speaker 2: force that we cannot defend from. Now we can defend
1:19:58
Speaker 2: from it. Some we have our Patriot missiles and our
1:20:00
Speaker 2: other type of interceptors. But they can pour on volume
1:20:04
Speaker 2: that there is no magic Star Wars shield that can
1:20:08
Speaker 2: protect from And we had at that time more than
1:20:11
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand guys in Iraq, fifty thousand in Afghanistan,
1:20:14
Speaker 2: and then plus still as we still do, tens of
1:20:18
Speaker 2: thousands air Force and army in Kuwait, Air Force and
1:20:22
Speaker 2: army in Saudi Arabia, Air Force and cutter Navy at Bahrain.
1:20:26
Speaker 2: I guess air Force and army in UAE. And I
1:20:30
Speaker 2: didn't know in Oman, but yeah, of course in Oman
1:20:32
Speaker 2: they had, you know, some naval presence there as well,
1:20:35
Speaker 2: so and they knew then that all of that stuff
1:20:38
Speaker 2: will be up for grabs and then the strait of
1:20:41
Speaker 2: horror moves will also be at risk. And in fact
1:20:45
Speaker 2: it's true at anti war dot Com you can find
1:20:49
Speaker 2: in the archives there. I wrote an article in August
1:20:52
Speaker 2: of two thousand and five called Who's behind the Coming
1:20:55
Speaker 2: War with Iran? And I say in there they can
1:20:58
Speaker 2: close the straight and they can inflict economic damage, drive
1:21:02
Speaker 2: the cost of a barrel of oil up above two
1:21:04
Speaker 2: hundred dollars a barrel, and all of that. So there
1:21:07
Speaker 2: were people lots smarter than me who were riding about
1:21:09
Speaker 2: that at the time that I was interviewing on my
1:21:11
Speaker 2: show at the time, who were just saying, look, we
1:21:14
Speaker 2: can start a war with Iran, but we don't really
1:21:17
Speaker 2: have a good way to finish one and so, and
1:21:20
Speaker 2: we talk about the nuclear program and how unnecessary. All
1:21:22
Speaker 2: this was in a Sect two. But point being that
1:21:25
Speaker 2: you want to do a regime change, as you just said,
1:21:26
Speaker 2: you kill the iotol, it doesn't do any good. They
1:21:28
Speaker 2: have a new iatola. You can kill the whole ruling
1:21:30
Speaker 2: council that appoints the Iyatola, but then they'll just appoint
1:21:33
Speaker 2: a new ruling council. So then you can dump into
1:21:35
Speaker 2: eighty second Airborne Division. But they can't occupy and control Tehran.
1:21:41
Speaker 2: There's no good land route to invade the country. They
1:21:43
Speaker 2: have two massive mountain ranges.
1:21:45
Speaker 3: And one of the most preposterous narratives was like getting
1:21:47
Speaker 3: the people to rise.
1:21:49
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're gonna arm up some Kurds.
1:21:51
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, not just the Kurds. They were trying to
1:21:53
Speaker 3: get just the Iranian civilians. Yeah, with no arms. Yeah.
1:21:57
Speaker 2: And they'll talk about you know, arming the and arming
1:22:00
Speaker 2: the Bilukis, which I don't know if there are other factions,
1:22:04
Speaker 2: but that seems to be a direct reference to groups
1:22:06
Speaker 2: like Joondala, who the Obama and the Obama administration and
1:22:09
Speaker 2: the Israelis both backed about fifteen years ago, who were
1:22:12
Speaker 2: bin ladenite head shoppers, suicide bomber guys. They were, you know,
1:22:16
Speaker 2: no different from al Qaeda or Isis, and they, you know,
1:22:19
Speaker 2: John Bolton on Pierce Morgan, that's the same show that
1:22:22
Speaker 2: I was on, was saying, yeah, we could arm up
1:22:23
Speaker 2: the Bilukis and stuff is crazy. I actually wrote in
1:22:26
Speaker 2: that article at that time, the neo CON's daydream that
1:22:29
Speaker 2: if we just start the war, then the people will
1:22:31
Speaker 2: rise up and create a new pro American government there.
1:22:34
Speaker 2: But that's crazy to bet on that. There's no reason
1:22:36
Speaker 2: to believe that and so and there's video of me
1:22:39
Speaker 2: in twenty ten warning the same thing. And I'm not
1:22:42
Speaker 2: claiming any great insight. I didn't go to college, man,
1:22:44
Speaker 2: I just you know, I'm interested in this stuff, and
1:22:46
Speaker 2: I you know, have a show where I was interviewing
1:22:48
Speaker 2: all these experts about it at the time, and it
1:22:51
Speaker 2: was just complete consensus. Everybody knew they can reach out.
1:22:55
Speaker 2: And boy, over twenty years, I must have said this
1:22:58
Speaker 2: a thousand times. They can not only hit all of
1:23:00
Speaker 2: our military stuff in Iraq and Kuwait and Bahrain and
1:23:04
Speaker 2: Cutter et cetera, Saudi, et cetera, but a trillion dollars
1:23:07
Speaker 2: of economic targets all up and down that Gulf, which
1:23:10
Speaker 2: is exactly what they did. They hit refineries, they hit
1:23:13
Speaker 2: chemical plants, They hit not just at the straight of
1:23:16
Speaker 2: horror moves, they hit American oil tankers up near Kuwait,
1:23:19
Speaker 2: just to show that, like we pune this entire thing. Now,
1:23:22
Speaker 2: So back to my original point when I got on
1:23:24
Speaker 2: this tangent was that America's conventional military empire is bankrupt.
1:23:29
Speaker 2: Donald Trump just blew his big bluff that we're the
1:23:33
Speaker 2: big player in the region. We're actually not in the region.
1:23:36
Speaker 2: We're here. The region is over there, and the entire
1:23:41
Speaker 2: threat of our dominance over there is basically called. I mean,
1:23:44
Speaker 2: obviously we still have aircraft carriers and planes and bombs
1:23:47
Speaker 2: and even nukes and all that. But can the leaders
1:23:51
Speaker 2: in Bahrain, in Cutter and UAE and Saudi rely on
1:23:54
Speaker 2: America to defend them, right or they got to come
1:23:57
Speaker 2: up with their own different policy.
1:24:00
Speaker 3: Now, haven't we also used up like two thirds of
1:24:02
Speaker 3: our patriot missile supply.
1:24:04
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I don't know the exact percentages, but a lot.
1:24:07
Speaker 2: And they're admitting now that the Iranians still have seventy
1:24:10
Speaker 2: seventy five percent of all their missiles and launchers. All
1:24:13
Speaker 2: that stuff about we decimated everything they had was all
1:24:15
Speaker 2: just who's admitting that government officials talking to the New
1:24:19
Speaker 2: York Times and the Washington Posts in the last three days.
1:24:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, I hadn't ireforreheid.
1:24:23
Speaker 2: That seventy seventy five percent. They got all their launchers,
1:24:26
Speaker 2: all their missiles. They dug out missiles that had been buried,
1:24:30
Speaker 2: They refurbished some and finished some that were on the
1:24:33
Speaker 2: assembly line. That was what they told the Post. They
1:24:35
Speaker 2: were finishing some that had been on the assembly line
1:24:38
Speaker 2: that they went ahead and restarted up again.
1:24:40
Speaker 3: And don't they have some crazy like missile elevator system
1:24:43
Speaker 3: where they're they're buried deep underground and.
1:24:45
Speaker 2: I don't know how it works exactly, but yeah, they
1:24:48
Speaker 2: and even they have apparently like the factories are buried
1:24:50
Speaker 2: deep underground as well and just dispersed throughout the country.
1:24:53
Speaker 3: And so they've been preparing for something like this for Yeah,
1:24:57
Speaker 3: and so these bases that we had a all of
1:25:00
Speaker 3: them non functional, all the ones that have been.
1:25:02
Speaker 2: Hit, I don't think so. I don't know the exact
1:25:05
Speaker 2: extent of that, but as far as their usefulness over
1:25:09
Speaker 2: the long term, they might as well have just been
1:25:10
Speaker 2: abandoned at this point.
1:25:12
Speaker 3: So let's see what the conventional news says.
1:25:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, like New York Times and CNN have two big
1:25:17
Speaker 2: profiles on this, I don't know off the top of
1:25:20
Speaker 2: my head. Better stuff than that. The CNN, oh, and
1:25:22
Speaker 2: NBC also had one within the CNN and the NBC
1:25:26
Speaker 2: are within the last couple of weeks. The New York
1:25:27
Speaker 2: Times is about six weeks old. Maybe.
1:25:29
Speaker 3: One of the things that disturbed me to no end,
1:25:31
Speaker 3: and we talked about this a couple of times the
1:25:32
Speaker 3: podcast was there was one of the guys who was
1:25:37
Speaker 3: over there who attended a briefing and they were told
1:25:44
Speaker 3: that this is bringing about armageddon and that Trump was
1:25:49
Speaker 3: anointed by Jesus Christ and that this war in Iran
1:25:53
Speaker 3: was going to cause Jesus to return, and that this
1:25:57
Speaker 3: was actually being told to a bunch of military people
1:26:00
Speaker 3: that were having a war debriefing. And then the guy
1:26:05
Speaker 3: had whoever this officer was that was talking about this
1:26:09
Speaker 3: said that the guy had a giant smile on his
1:26:11
Speaker 3: face when he was telling this, which made it all
1:26:14
Speaker 3: the more creepy.
1:26:15
Speaker 2: Oh good, at the end of the world. Nobody wants
1:26:17
Speaker 2: to die alone, right Joe.
1:26:18
Speaker 3: But they were saying all that that there's a faction
1:26:22
Speaker 3: in the military, that is these religious fundamentalists that actually
1:26:26
Speaker 3: believe that it's bringing about Jesus's return.
1:26:30
Speaker 2: So look, there's a guy named them.
1:26:32
Speaker 3: Commander claimed Trump was anointed by Jesus to cause armageddon
1:26:35
Speaker 3: to justify Iran strikes.
1:26:38
Speaker 2: So there's a guy named Mikey Weinstein.
1:26:40
Speaker 3: This is but look at that. Let's just go over
1:26:42
Speaker 3: this real quick. This is so crazy because this go
1:26:44
Speaker 3: up to the top place right there, so nother time
1:26:47
Speaker 3: so where it says who it was. So it's a
1:26:49
Speaker 3: military commander told a group of non commissioned officers that
1:26:53
Speaker 3: President Donald Trump anointed by Jesus to light the signal
1:26:56
Speaker 3: fire in Iran to cause armageddon and mark his return
1:27:00
Speaker 3: to Earth.
1:27:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then that's Mikey Weinstein right there, the Military
1:27:05
Speaker 2: Religious Freedom Foundation. He was I believe he was an
1:27:08
Speaker 2: Air Force officer, maybe he's an Army officer. And then
1:27:12
Speaker 2: he created this group to advocate against this kind of
1:27:15
Speaker 2: stuff in the military. And it's been a long time
1:27:17
Speaker 2: since I spoke to him, but he was saying to
1:27:19
Speaker 2: me years ago that it's especially in the highest ranks
1:27:22
Speaker 2: of the Air Force. The highest ranks of the Air Force,
1:27:25
Speaker 2: they really believe this stuff. It is time to bring
1:27:28
Speaker 2: on the apocalypse. And it's a good thing that they
1:27:30
Speaker 2: are the ones in charge of the nukes so that
1:27:32
Speaker 2: they can use them according to the divine plan. And
1:27:36
Speaker 2: it is scary.
1:27:36
Speaker 3: People need to know this. Go back to that police
1:27:38
Speaker 3: because there's one quote that's below that this is so fascinating.
1:27:43
Speaker 3: He urged us to tell our troops that this was
1:27:46
Speaker 3: all part of God's divine plan, and he specifically referenced
1:27:50
Speaker 3: numerous citations out of the Book of Revelations referring to
1:27:54
Speaker 3: armageddon and the imminent return of Jesus Christ. You imagine,
1:27:57
Speaker 3: if you're over there, you already think the war is sketchy,
1:28:00
Speaker 3: why the fuck are we doing this, and then this
1:28:01
Speaker 3: guy comes down, You're like, oh my god, we're cooked.
1:28:04
Speaker 2: This is a big part of how they justified Iraq.
1:28:06
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many Protestant ministers out there who
1:28:08
Speaker 2: told their people that this is the Bible, get it,
1:28:11
Speaker 2: Middle East, your two thousand sort of ish. This is
1:28:15
Speaker 2: how you're gonna get raptured up to heaven in your body,
1:28:18
Speaker 2: and all you have to do is support this aggressive
1:28:20
Speaker 2: war and all this magic stuff is going to come true.
1:28:22
Speaker 2: And in fact, this is why there's such a massive
1:28:24
Speaker 2: crash and evangelical support for Israel and these kind of
1:28:27
Speaker 2: foreign policies now is because people just don't believe that anymore.
1:28:30
Speaker 2: Because that's what the Left Behind series at Walmart said
1:28:33
Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, and then it never happened. It
1:28:36
Speaker 2: didn't come true. It speaking of the one World government
1:28:38
Speaker 2: and all this stuff, Where's Satan? Where's the deal? Instead
1:28:41
Speaker 2: it's just Obama and Trump. You know.
1:28:45
Speaker 3: So, how do you think we got talked into this
1:28:49
Speaker 3: Iran thing? Because jd Vance very against it, a lot
1:28:53
Speaker 3: of people Tulca Gabbard very against it. That's what the
1:28:56
Speaker 3: fuck happened.
1:28:57
Speaker 2: I think that netnyahuo essentially, you know, all let's talk
1:29:00
Speaker 2: about four dimensional chess and whatever. I think what it
1:29:05
Speaker 2: is is it's just checkers, right is net Yahoo goes
1:29:09
Speaker 2: listen for Iran to have a civilian nuclear program. Come on,
1:29:16
Speaker 2: that's just cover for really a weapons program. It's just
1:29:18
Speaker 2: a stage in a weapons program. We know eventually they're
1:29:21
Speaker 2: gonna make nukes and then they're going to attack Israel
1:29:23
Speaker 2: with them. And we also know that, and you already
1:29:28
Speaker 2: said that you're not gonna let them have nukes. Well,
1:29:30
Speaker 2: having a nuclear program at all is having nukes, same difference,
1:29:33
Speaker 2: and you already agreed to that, right right, Okay, Well,
1:29:36
Speaker 2: and they won't give up enrichment. So what do we do.
1:29:40
Speaker 2: We got attack. It's just like Obama's red line on
1:29:43
Speaker 2: the fake chemical weapons scare in Syria. There that once
1:29:46
Speaker 2: you agree to this thing, now it's written in stone.
1:29:49
Speaker 2: And now like we got you on this technicality double jump.
1:29:52
Speaker 2: You already agreed with the stupid things I said, and
1:29:55
Speaker 2: so now you have to do the thing that I said.
1:29:57
Speaker 2: And then Trump goes okay, and then plus on top
1:29:59
Speaker 2: of that, just the f and like you know, honestly,
1:30:02
Speaker 2: this is the most obvious thing. Back when he was
1:30:03
Speaker 2: on Twitter in his first term, I used to tweet
1:30:05
Speaker 2: at him and I would say wealth, strength, gold, get
1:30:11
Speaker 2: out of Afghanistan, height power, and like just tell him
1:30:16
Speaker 2: like things that he likes, right with, get out of
1:30:19
Speaker 2: Afghanistan in the middle And so this is what Netanyahu
1:30:22
Speaker 2: does is he goes, listen, you're greater than Abraham Lincoln,
1:30:26
Speaker 2: You're greater than George Washington. You're a world historical figure.
1:30:30
Speaker 2: You're sure to go to heaven. Now you're like, if
1:30:33
Speaker 2: FDR had done the right thing and invaded Germany in
1:30:35
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five and prevented that whole thing from ever happening.
1:30:39
Speaker 3: But you're just guessing that this is how we talked
1:30:41
Speaker 3: to well kinda but wouldn't be awesome.
1:30:44
Speaker 2: Because he repeats a lot of it. Oh, it would,
1:30:45
Speaker 2: it would be great, But he repeats so much of
1:30:48
Speaker 2: it back that I think that, like, yeah, you can
1:30:50
Speaker 2: pretty much tell this is what they're saying to him.
1:30:52
Speaker 2: And then this is what he's responding is Obama wasn't
1:30:56
Speaker 2: man enough to do it, George Bush wasn't man enough
1:30:59
Speaker 2: to do it. He knows what has to be done,
1:31:01
Speaker 2: he's willing to do it, and he's ill informed enough
1:31:04
Speaker 2: to believe that it makes any sense that if you
1:31:08
Speaker 2: just bomb their nuclear program that somehow it'll go away.
1:31:11
Speaker 2: If you just hit them hard enough, then eventually they'll
1:31:13
Speaker 2: just do what you say. It doesn't work like that.
1:31:16
Speaker 2: It oftentimes does not work like that. And with these guys,
1:31:20
Speaker 2: they've made it clear that we're not making bombs, but
1:31:23
Speaker 2: we absolutely reserve our right to enricherating for peaceful purposes
1:31:27
Speaker 2: and we will suffer your air strikes. We will not
1:31:30
Speaker 2: give up that right. And so that's it. And they've
1:31:33
Speaker 2: been completely clear about that this entire time. But net
1:31:37
Speaker 2: Yahoo convinced them right. This is why he also believed
1:31:40
Speaker 2: that the Straight of Horror moose was not at risk,
1:31:42
Speaker 2: because net Yahu convinced him. Once we hit them, once
1:31:44
Speaker 2: he killed Ayatola, the whole thing's going to fall apart.
1:31:47
Speaker 2: There'll be no one too close to Straight of Horror
1:31:48
Speaker 2: moods because we'll have already won by then.
1:31:50
Speaker 3: But what do you think happens if Ron does get
1:31:52
Speaker 3: nuclear weapons?
1:31:56
Speaker 2: Probably the other state in the region. Will you know
1:32:01
Speaker 2: Darryl Cooper who's my partner on our show Provoked, and
1:32:04
Speaker 2: I know good friend of yours.
1:32:06
Speaker 3: I love Darryl.
1:32:06
Speaker 2: He is so great and awesome, and he was pointing out.
1:32:09
Speaker 3: That guy gets boys, he get fucking misrepresented on Oh
1:32:12
Speaker 3: he does. Oh my god, Oh my god. The guy
1:32:15
Speaker 3: man very fucking smart. And if you listen to fear
1:32:20
Speaker 3: and loathing in the New Jerusalem, Anybody who listens to
1:32:23
Speaker 3: that and thinks that guy's anti Semitic is fucking crazy. Yeah,
1:32:26
Speaker 3: you're crazy. All that stuff is so balanced, it's so
1:32:31
Speaker 3: balanced and so objective, and you know his perspective on it,
1:32:36
Speaker 3: and just people take that one thing that he said
1:32:40
Speaker 3: about the fuck Churchill, the thing that he said about
1:32:45
Speaker 3: Churchill being the real villain. He's being provocative, right, And
1:32:49
Speaker 3: what he's trying to say is that Churchill, by imposing
1:32:53
Speaker 3: those embargoes, essentially was starving them and was keeping resources
1:32:58
Speaker 3: from getting to Germany. And he forced Hitler's hand to
1:33:02
Speaker 3: do what he did. It's not excusing him. It's not
1:33:06
Speaker 3: like saying Hitler wasn't a fucking evil cunt. It's not.
1:33:09
Speaker 3: It's not like saying Hitler's a good guy, but Winston
1:33:13
Speaker 3: Churchill is the bad guy. Somebody who's saying at all.
1:33:16
Speaker 3: But he was saying Winston Churchill also a bad guy.
1:33:19
Speaker 3: Also wanted to attack Soviet Union right after they were
1:33:23
Speaker 3: done with the war.
1:33:24
Speaker 2: And he was actually he even introduced a subject by
1:33:27
Speaker 2: saying to Tucker that you know, I like to pick
1:33:30
Speaker 2: on my friend Jocko, who's very waspy, and I like
1:33:35
Speaker 2: to pick on him and joke with him that you know,
1:33:37
Speaker 2: Churchill was the real bad guy because he wouldn't accept,
1:33:42
Speaker 2: you know, piece for an answer. He had to finish
1:33:44
Speaker 2: the regime change, no matter what, even if it took
1:33:46
Speaker 2: America doing it for him and whatever. And then his
1:33:48
Speaker 2: point about he never even finished the point about the
1:33:51
Speaker 2: people starving in the camps. He was totally taken out
1:33:54
Speaker 2: of context to mean that the only people who died
1:33:57
Speaker 2: in the Holocaust, all that happened was the jury didn't
1:34:00
Speaker 2: care enough to feed them well enough or something. But
1:34:02
Speaker 2: that was not what he was saying at all. He
1:34:04
Speaker 2: was essentially arguing that even if you were some kind
1:34:08
Speaker 2: of German apologist, even you would have to admit that
1:34:11
Speaker 2: every single soul they took possession of, they took responsibility for.
1:34:16
Speaker 2: And if people are starving to death by the millions
1:34:19
Speaker 2: in their camps, then nobody could deny that right. And
1:34:24
Speaker 2: then he didn't even discuss the rest of the Hawkaus.
1:34:26
Speaker 2: His point had nothing to do with like trying to
1:34:29
Speaker 2: diminish the rest of it or discount the rest of
1:34:31
Speaker 2: it or anything like that. He was just saying, you know, arguing,
1:34:35
Speaker 2: even the devil's advocate would have to admit so much
1:34:38
Speaker 2: of the case on the face of it, and then
1:34:40
Speaker 2: there he was seguing right into a point about Gaza
1:34:43
Speaker 2: and how the Israelis Gaza is not a country, Gaza
1:34:46
Speaker 2: is an Indian reservation. They were already whooked and conquered
1:34:51
Speaker 2: and besieged, and so you take control of people like that,
1:34:55
Speaker 2: then you're responsible to make sure that they're fed and
1:34:59
Speaker 2: that they're not starving death and this you know, under
1:35:01
Speaker 2: your captivity, which was the point that he was making.
1:35:04
Speaker 2: So it ended up being, you know, half half of
1:35:07
Speaker 2: a thing in jest and half explained about Churchhill and
1:35:13
Speaker 2: then a point about the war in the East that
1:35:17
Speaker 2: was totally and I think in some cases honestly misinterpreted.
1:35:21
Speaker 2: But what's dishonest is people pretending like he didn't explain
1:35:25
Speaker 2: himself on the record over and over and over clarified
1:35:28
Speaker 2: or what he meant by all that stuff.
1:35:30
Speaker 3: And that's the problem with video clips. Yeah, clips are
1:35:33
Speaker 3: a real problem because you lose the context of the
1:35:35
Speaker 3: entire conversation. You get one person's point where they might
1:35:38
Speaker 3: be steel manning something else, or they might be like
1:35:41
Speaker 3: trying to be provocative or whatever it is. But to me,
1:35:44
Speaker 3: it's always very fascinating that this one war is beyond debate,
1:35:50
Speaker 3: like there's no room for any discussions of what might
1:35:54
Speaker 3: be true what might not be true. I don't think
1:35:58
Speaker 3: there's a single fucking moment in human history where we
1:36:03
Speaker 3: have gotten a completely objective, one hundred percent accurate representation
1:36:07
Speaker 3: of why the war started, What were the factors, what
1:36:10
Speaker 3: were the motivations. We could go all the way back
1:36:12
Speaker 3: to Smedley Butler and Smedley Butler's war is a racket,
1:36:16
Speaker 3: which I always point out because here's a guy in
1:36:18
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty three that was realizing he was a major general,
1:36:23
Speaker 3: realizing at the end of his tenure, like, holy shit,
1:36:26
Speaker 3: what did I do? I thought that I was doing
1:36:29
Speaker 3: this to make the world safer, and really I was
1:36:32
Speaker 3: making it better for bankers, better for all these interests
1:36:35
Speaker 3: to go in and control resources or do whatever the
1:36:38
Speaker 3: fuck they were actually doing. And you can talk about that,
1:36:43
Speaker 3: but if you get into discussions about World War two
1:36:46
Speaker 3: and anything involving the Nazis, anything involving the Holocaust, anything,
1:36:50
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, anti Semitic gets thrown around. All
1:36:52
Speaker 3: of a sudden, you're a bad person.
1:36:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, as he says, it's you know, a huge part
1:36:57
Speaker 2: of our civic religion. Basically, you know, we're like George
1:37:01
Speaker 2: Washington and even Abraham Lincoln and all that stuff is
1:37:03
Speaker 2: too long ago where it's really Franklin Roosevelt and Harry
1:37:06
Speaker 2: Truman and Dwight Eisenhower are the founding fathers of the
1:37:09
Speaker 2: American Empire and their great project, the Greatest Generation and
1:37:13
Speaker 2: all of those things that was. You know, that's that's
1:37:17
Speaker 2: how we know that, that's who we are. I mean,
1:37:19
Speaker 2: my grandfather was in that war, and my great uncle
1:37:22
Speaker 2: was you know, death marched by the Japanese in that
1:37:24
Speaker 2: war and stuff like, a lot of people have connections
1:37:27
Speaker 2: to that. As Bill Crystal and his friends would say,
1:37:32
Speaker 2: this is how you build national greatness. You need big
1:37:34
Speaker 2: projects that we can all do together. And World War
1:37:37
Speaker 2: two is the biggest project of all. So it's the
1:37:39
Speaker 2: kind of thing that people don't really want a question.
1:37:41
Speaker 3: It's also we should point out that they were bankrolling
1:37:44
Speaker 3: Smedley Butler trying to get him to overthrow the fucking government.
1:37:48
Speaker 2: Refuse to do it. Yeah, yeah, he rushed up Capitol
1:37:50
Speaker 2: Hill with the documents and showed him.
1:37:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were trying to get him to throw a
1:37:55
Speaker 3: military coup on the United States government and take it over.
1:37:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you thought FD was bad and these
1:38:01
Speaker 2: guys wanted to overthrow him he wasn't, you know, crazy
1:38:03
Speaker 2: wrong faction, I guess. But look, I'm not an expert
1:38:08
Speaker 2: on and I've only read a few books about the
1:38:10
Speaker 2: Second World War, and you'd have to read hundreds to
1:38:12
Speaker 2: really know what you're talking about on that one. But
1:38:14
Speaker 2: I can tell you that Pat Buchanan's great book, Churchill,
1:38:17
Speaker 2: Hitler and the Unnecessary War, that Pat knew that everybody
1:38:22
Speaker 2: was going to try to smear him, and everyone was
1:38:23
Speaker 2: going to attack him, and nobody wanted to hear his
1:38:26
Speaker 2: version of how this all happened. So he only quotes
1:38:29
Speaker 2: the highest level, most credentialed English historians from Cambridge and Oxford,
1:38:35
Speaker 2: and so he's not relying on the German point of
1:38:38
Speaker 2: view whatsoever. He's quoting only these English historians saying, here's
1:38:42
Speaker 2: how the idiot Neville Chamberlin and Winston Churchill essentially fumbled
1:38:49
Speaker 2: into this war, screwed up and got us into this
1:38:52
Speaker 2: war that was way worse than we ever could hope.
1:38:55
Speaker 2: They ended up turning Poland over to the comedies at
1:38:57
Speaker 2: the end. Anyway, and all of that, and it's really, honestly,
1:39:00
Speaker 2: is what I think it is is a decent take
1:39:02
Speaker 2: on World War Two without all that religiosity that you're
1:39:05
Speaker 2: referring to there, and just take a cold look at it.
1:39:07
Speaker 2: You know, Like they say that W. Bush he's the
1:39:10
Speaker 2: Winston Churchill of the twenty first century, and I'm like,
1:39:13
Speaker 2: you know what, maybe that's right, and maybe Winston Churchill
1:39:17
Speaker 2: was really just the George W. Bush at the twentieth century.
1:39:19
Speaker 2: It's just you're supposed to never admit that.
1:39:21
Speaker 3: Who's talking about in Churchill's Dick Cheney?
1:39:24
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's a good question.
1:39:26
Speaker 3: I don't know any but that was boy, that guy
1:39:29
Speaker 3: he had no pulse for a while. Yeah, you know,
1:39:32
Speaker 3: is that not in the Bible or something like?
1:39:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, should be the fucking guy who once wore who
1:39:39
Speaker 1: is giving no bid contract contracts to the company that
1:39:42
Speaker 1: he was the fucking CEO of where they're going over
1:39:45
Speaker 1: there and fixing for billions of dollars shit that we
1:39:47
Speaker 1: blew up.
1:39:48
Speaker 3: And this guy doesn't even have a pulse.
1:39:50
Speaker 2: I know, really weird heart. He lived so long too,
1:39:54
Speaker 2: like only the good die young kind of thing.
1:39:57
Speaker 3: I mean, how many people drop dead after COVID of
1:40:00
Speaker 3: heart attacks that were young and healthy, and this fucking
1:40:02
Speaker 3: guy keep on truck. And remember when he shot his
1:40:05
Speaker 3: friend in the face and his friend apologized, Yeah, yep,
1:40:10
Speaker 3: he fucking they were they were doing, which is one
1:40:13
Speaker 3: of the most very I'd say it's one of the
1:40:19
Speaker 3: hardest to argue in support of type of hunts. It's
1:40:23
Speaker 3: called a canned hunt. You know what it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:40:26
Speaker 3: he said, what it is that they just released jaza
1:40:29
Speaker 3: ah very similar. They just well, this is you know birds.
1:40:33
Speaker 3: They just released these birds from a cage literally and
1:40:36
Speaker 3: they fly and then they shoot him out of the sky.
1:40:38
Speaker 3: And even then he blasts his friend and then he
1:40:42
Speaker 3: would drinking, well allegedly, so he wouldn't do any interviews
1:40:46
Speaker 3: or anything, wouldn't talk to anybody for like twenty four hours,
1:40:49
Speaker 3: and so he had a sober up or you know,
1:40:50
Speaker 3: allegedly or whatever. And then his friend was like, minder, misunderstanding,
1:40:56
Speaker 3: got a few pellets in my face. What the fuck?
1:40:58
Speaker 2: I'm very sorry if this for reflected negatively on the
1:41:01
Speaker 2: vice president, that's a game. My fault for putting my face.
1:41:04
Speaker 3: There isn't that amazing, No lawsuit, no nothing. Your friend
1:41:07
Speaker 3: shoots you in the face, no worries.
1:41:09
Speaker 2: And what angle exactly did he get shot? That he
1:41:12
Speaker 2: was okay after that?
1:41:14
Speaker 3: Well, you the thing about it is it's bird bird shot, yeah,
1:41:17
Speaker 3: and if you bird shot spreads right, and depending upon
1:41:21
Speaker 3: the distance and how far he was away from him,
1:41:23
Speaker 3: he could have just got clipped. For the couples. Most
1:41:26
Speaker 3: likely that's what tapped, because I think he was seventy.
1:41:28
Speaker 3: You know, if you're seventy gets shot in the face
1:41:30
Speaker 3: of the shotgun, usually that's a wrap. So I think
1:41:33
Speaker 3: he just got clipped with a couple of pellets. And
1:41:35
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, he probably should have just shut the
1:41:37
Speaker 3: fuck up and not reported it, right. I don't know
1:41:40
Speaker 3: how it even got out.
1:41:41
Speaker 2: He must have had to go to the hospital.
1:41:43
Speaker 3: Oh say, I fucked up. I dropped my gun and
1:41:45
Speaker 3: it went off. Oh yeah, yeah, you don't.
1:41:48
Speaker 2: The vice president shot me. I mean, don't tell the newspaper.
1:41:50
Speaker 3: I said that. If that was my friend, you know,
1:41:53
Speaker 3: I would probably say, let it go, let's figure this out,
1:41:58
Speaker 3: to go to the fucking press.
1:42:00
Speaker 2: Come on, bro, there's a guy killed and wounded a
1:42:03
Speaker 2: lot of people, that's for sure, mostly vicariously, but not well.
1:42:08
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a special place in hell.
1:42:10
Speaker 4: It's just so weird that that worked, you know, just
1:42:15
Speaker 4: all of it, that no bid contracts, the fact that
1:42:18
Speaker 4: he was essentially running and he remember when he was
1:42:21
Speaker 4: in a bunker and Bush was running around.
1:42:23
Speaker 3: Like he's in a bunker somewhere, like why is he
1:42:26
Speaker 3: in a bunker? Like what? What the fuck? That whole
1:42:29
Speaker 3: war was so weird.
1:42:31
Speaker 2: It was to pretend that there's a threat, that there
1:42:33
Speaker 2: was an ongoing threat when there wasn't.
1:42:35
Speaker 3: I had a bit about it in my act is
1:42:37
Speaker 3: like that the elites really have no idea how dumb
1:42:39
Speaker 3: people are, and the only way to find out how
1:42:41
Speaker 3: dumb people are is make a dumb guy president, and
1:42:44
Speaker 3: that that's what they did. And then when we went
1:42:46
Speaker 3: into a war with iron, where with the rack rather
1:42:49
Speaker 3: like how did we how do we justify that? And
1:42:53
Speaker 3: they bought that what the fuck? And then the bit
1:42:57
Speaker 3: was like he won.
1:42:58
Speaker 2: Again elected on that.
1:43:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I go, there's someone sitting in the
1:43:02
Speaker 3: back of the room going, I think we can go dumber.
1:43:08
Speaker 3: That That was the idea of the bit is that
1:43:10
Speaker 3: this is the only way to find out how dumb
1:43:11
Speaker 3: we are, right, and that.
1:43:14
Speaker 2: Kurt Vonnegut story Harrison bergeron where there's like the ruling elite,
1:43:18
Speaker 2: but the president. I think it's the president in the
1:43:20
Speaker 2: movie of is Tim Curry or something. He's just a
1:43:22
Speaker 2: total like buffoon and they just the real powers all
1:43:28
Speaker 2: behind the throne run of things.
1:43:29
Speaker 3: Well, the fourth my favorite movie about that is Doctor
1:43:32
Speaker 3: Strangelove because it's like, because it's kind of humorous and
1:43:36
Speaker 3: you know it's but the whole thing is like, oh
1:43:39
Speaker 3: my god. I think when you see this Pete Hegseas
1:43:42
Speaker 3: thing where these guys are talking about this and this
1:43:45
Speaker 3: commander is saying that it's all to bring about armageddon,
1:43:48
Speaker 3: it's this is right out of Doctor Strangelove.
1:43:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you can tell. And this is one of
1:43:53
Speaker 2: the most dispiriting things, right, is when you can tell
1:43:55
Speaker 2: a lot of times when these people are talking that wow,
1:43:58
Speaker 2: he's really not lying. He really thinks that that stupid
1:44:00
Speaker 2: lie is true, and he's telling us what he thinks
1:44:02
Speaker 2: is true like this, you know, depending on their tone
1:44:04
Speaker 2: and the way they explain it. He is sometimes like
1:44:08
Speaker 2: even with Donald Trump, like it's possible he's even talked
1:44:12
Speaker 2: himself or allowed himself to be talked into believing that
1:44:14
Speaker 2: they really were making nuclear weapons. And that then they
1:44:17
Speaker 2: were going to use him on us. I mean, that
1:44:18
Speaker 2: might just be this dumbest lie, and he knows it right.
1:44:21
Speaker 3: But if they did not, it would be a giant
1:44:23
Speaker 3: problem because the Iranian government, just what could they've done
1:44:26
Speaker 3: to their people, executed protesters, They've done some wild shit.
1:44:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, you don't.
1:44:31
Speaker 3: Think that's a big deal what they've done to their protester.
1:44:33
Speaker 2: In fact, that's where we got off on Martin made
1:44:36
Speaker 2: there a minute ago, was because on our show he
1:44:39
Speaker 2: was saying, right now, through their conventional power and especially
1:44:43
Speaker 2: because w Bush gave their best friends Bagdad, Iran is
1:44:47
Speaker 2: by far the dominant power in the region conventionally speaking,
1:44:51
Speaker 2: other than US. If they rushed to an Adam bomb,
1:44:56
Speaker 2: say to somehow deter us, which I don't think that
1:44:59
Speaker 2: would work. I think we just attack them. If they
1:45:01
Speaker 2: really did it, we just attack them again. But if
1:45:04
Speaker 2: they did somehow get an atomic bomb, well then that
1:45:07
Speaker 2: would then incentivize all of the other powers, I mean
1:45:10
Speaker 2: or other states on the GCC there, Saudi and Cutter
1:45:13
Speaker 2: and Bahrain and UAE to get their own nukes, and
1:45:16
Speaker 2: at that point, Iran's entire strategic advantage is canceled because
1:45:19
Speaker 2: now they got nukes too, and so now nobody has.
1:45:21
Speaker 3: The strategy again. But no one can do to them
1:45:24
Speaker 3: what happened to them now if they had nukes. This
1:45:27
Speaker 3: was the argument for Ukraine.
1:45:28
Speaker 2: Not but that would include that would include them being
1:45:31
Speaker 2: able to deliver them to the United States as well.
1:45:34
Speaker 2: And I think see it's like this, here's how it worked. Okay,
1:45:37
Speaker 2: the Iranians, they're members of the Non Proliferation Treaty going
1:45:40
Speaker 2: way back, they had a safeguarded civilian nuclear program where
1:45:43
Speaker 2: the IAEA could verify they're not diverting their nuclear material.
1:45:47
Speaker 3: How could they verify this? Oh, it's just they have
1:45:49
Speaker 3: their bases all underground.
1:45:50
Speaker 2: I mean no, no, no, because all that stuff was open
1:45:53
Speaker 2: and declared and safeguarded by the AEA. So they're enriching
1:45:56
Speaker 2: at two major facilities at fod Oh and Natans. And
1:45:59
Speaker 2: then they followed the uranium from womb to tomb, from
1:46:02
Speaker 2: the mind through the conversion process.
1:46:05
Speaker 3: And how much RECYCRI have of this, I mean, how
1:46:08
Speaker 3: much of it could be done in secrets.
1:46:09
Speaker 2: It was very robust up until you know, last June.
1:46:14
Speaker 2: Essentially they're proving the negative.
1:46:15
Speaker 3: There cano because they didn't know that the Iranians had
1:46:20
Speaker 3: the capacity to. They sent one four thousand kilometers, right,
1:46:25
Speaker 3: the Diego Garcia.
1:46:26
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the missile.
1:46:28
Speaker 3: So those missiles had a far greater range than anything
1:46:31
Speaker 3: that they had declared.
1:46:33
Speaker 2: Actually not quite, because well, first of all, that's the
1:46:36
Speaker 2: missile stuff is totally separate from their safeguards going with
1:46:39
Speaker 2: the IAEA, they had nothing to do with that. But
1:46:41
Speaker 2: as far as the missiles, the only limit on their
1:46:44
Speaker 2: missile range previously was a political limit and was.
1:46:49
Speaker 3: In the capability.
1:46:50
Speaker 2: That's right.
1:46:50
Speaker 3: So they it wasn't that they stated that all we
1:46:53
Speaker 3: have is this.
1:46:55
Speaker 2: They only previously, but then in October of I'm I'm
1:47:00
Speaker 2: pretty sure it was last October, in the aftermath of
1:47:03
Speaker 2: the June war. And so then in October of twenty five,
1:47:06
Speaker 2: the Ayatola announced we're lifting our limit on the range
1:47:09
Speaker 2: of our missiles and they said that publicly that they
1:47:12
Speaker 2: were doing that, and so that was as a result
1:47:15
Speaker 2: again of this provocation of the war last June. So
1:47:18
Speaker 2: that's still separate from the nuclear stuff though, but go ahead.
1:47:20
Speaker 3: Well I'm sorry. So it wasn't an inability thing. It
1:47:23
Speaker 3: was just an agreement.
1:47:25
Speaker 2: Although they don't have the capability to launch a three
1:47:27
Speaker 2: stage intercontinental ballistic missile to the United States of America.
1:47:31
Speaker 2: They can hit Israel, but they can do that with
1:47:33
Speaker 2: the intermediate range missile.
1:47:34
Speaker 3: But if they're cooperating with China, and China has that capability.
1:47:38
Speaker 2: Because Bill Clinton gave it to him.
1:47:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, Jesus, why did you do that?
1:47:43
Speaker 2: I love this story for the money. If you remember
1:47:48
Speaker 2: the scandal of ninety six and all the Chinese money
1:47:50
Speaker 2: in his campaign in ninety six, they spent all their money,
1:47:54
Speaker 2: hyping all the media attention, hyping up Charlie Tree and
1:47:59
Speaker 2: Johnny Chung, who were like low level fundraisers who didn't
1:48:02
Speaker 2: have anything to do with anything, and then they framed
1:48:04
Speaker 2: an entirely innocent Taiwanese scientist named Wen Holy, and the
1:48:08
Speaker 2: evil FBI persecuted poor Wen Holy, and it was this
1:48:11
Speaker 2: huge distraction from what really happened, which was this Chinese
1:48:16
Speaker 2: Indonesian billionaire named Riati who was directly tied to Chinese intelligence.
1:48:23
Speaker 2: He got his guy, John Wong, appointed to the Commerce Department,
1:48:26
Speaker 2: where he was put in charge of licensing missile technology
1:48:29
Speaker 2: transfers to China, and they took that authority away from
1:48:32
Speaker 2: State and Defense and gave it to the Commerce and
1:48:34
Speaker 2: then John Wong was the guy who got to rubberstamp
1:48:37
Speaker 2: those missile technology transfers. So then Hughes Aircraft and Laurel
1:48:41
Speaker 2: Corporation then sent their very best three stage rocket technology
1:48:45
Speaker 2: to China. Oh, because it's cheaper to have them launch
1:48:48
Speaker 2: the satellites, you know. So they were not I don't
1:48:51
Speaker 2: think able to deliver hydrogen bombs to the United States
1:48:54
Speaker 2: before that, and they were able to because I mean
1:48:56
Speaker 2: for a few hundred thousand dollars or maybe a couple
1:48:59
Speaker 2: of million dollars, so whatever, they were able to buy
1:49:01
Speaker 2: this from Bill Clinton. Jesus Christ, I know, crazy, but no,
1:49:04
Speaker 2: you're right that. Look, could China, could Iran, with Chinese
1:49:07
Speaker 2: help or whatever, someday be able to deliver a war here? Yes. However,
1:49:14
Speaker 2: the much better solution to that certainly would have been,
1:49:18
Speaker 2: I know, we can't go back, but certainly would have
1:49:20
Speaker 2: been just normalizing relations with Iran and just dealing with them.
1:49:23
Speaker 2: The reality was, Iran's position was not that they were
1:49:26
Speaker 2: racing to a nuke. Their position was they had this
1:49:29
Speaker 2: safeguarded program, where again the IE is essentially proving the negative.
1:49:33
Speaker 2: We know where all their uranium is it's right where
1:49:35
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be, and they haven't taken it and
1:49:38
Speaker 2: diverted it yet. We know how much they're enriching, and
1:49:40
Speaker 2: we know where it all goes, and so there, So
1:49:44
Speaker 2: then Israel would say America, they're making nukes if they
1:49:48
Speaker 2: have a nuclear program at all. This is the same
1:49:50
Speaker 2: during w. Bush, during Obama. This is true under Olmert
1:49:53
Speaker 2: as well as under Nitt Yahoo, who's been in charge
1:49:57
Speaker 2: almost the entire time since Obama. And the policy was
1:50:01
Speaker 2: from the israelis America bomb them. They got a civilian program,
1:50:05
Speaker 2: and you know that's just cover for they're gonna make
1:50:07
Speaker 2: nukes someday. They're gonna use them on us, So just
1:50:09
Speaker 2: go ahead and let's get them now. Then America would say, no,
1:50:13
Speaker 2: we're not doing that. This is under w. Bush again,
1:50:15
Speaker 2: under Obama, under Trump one, and under Biden. No, we're
1:50:20
Speaker 2: not going to just start a war, but we will
1:50:24
Speaker 2: warn the Iranians. Don't you break out and try to
1:50:28
Speaker 2: make a nuke now, because if you do, then we
1:50:32
Speaker 2: will attack you and we'll bomb your Manhattan project before
1:50:35
Speaker 2: you can complete it and before you can get it
1:50:37
Speaker 2: out of bomb We'll see you then. And then the
1:50:39
Speaker 2: Iranians would say, we're not making nukes, so don't attack us.
1:50:45
Speaker 2: And then the heavy implication was if you attack us,
1:50:48
Speaker 2: then we might make nukes. So they had a latent deterrent, right,
1:50:52
Speaker 2: a half assed nuclear weapons deterrent. They proved that they
1:50:55
Speaker 2: had mastered the fuel cycle, that they could enricheranium if
1:50:59
Speaker 2: they wanted to to weapons grade. They never did, but
1:51:02
Speaker 2: they said they were essentially saying, we have a revolver
1:51:04
Speaker 2: in one pocket and bullets in the other, let's not
1:51:06
Speaker 2: escalate this. And that could have and should have stood.
1:51:10
Speaker 2: Except this is what This is the answer to your
1:51:12
Speaker 2: question about how do they get us into this? Because
1:51:14
Speaker 2: NETANYAHUO convinced Trump to change that line and to adopt
1:51:18
Speaker 2: the Israeli line that for them to have a civilian
1:51:20
Speaker 2: nuclear program at all is equivalent to the exact same
1:51:24
Speaker 2: thing as them making nuclear weapons, and we're just not
1:51:26
Speaker 2: going to allow that.
1:51:28
Speaker 3: So how much understanding do we have of their capabilities?
1:51:34
Speaker 3: And how do we have that understanding? Like how much
1:51:37
Speaker 3: do we know about their enrichment program? How much do
1:51:40
Speaker 3: we know about whether or not they're capable of making
1:51:43
Speaker 3: a weapon, because haven't they stated recently that they are
1:51:46
Speaker 3: capable of making a nuclear weapon.
1:51:48
Speaker 2: Well, do you think that that was not a threat?
1:51:51
Speaker 2: I think what in fact, if I know the statement
1:51:53
Speaker 2: that you're talking about, they were saying, look, we're not
1:51:55
Speaker 2: making nukes. And the proof that we're not is the
1:51:57
Speaker 2: fact that we know how to, we could and we're
1:52:00
Speaker 2: still not. And you can see all this time they
1:52:02
Speaker 2: mastered the fuel cycle back in two thousand and six.
1:52:05
Speaker 2: Once you okay, so it's like this, and they have
1:52:08
Speaker 2: been set back on this, they got their facility blown
1:52:11
Speaker 2: up last June. But especially you have remember yellow cake.
1:52:16
Speaker 2: Don't drop that shit you had that Refined yellow cake
1:52:20
Speaker 2: is refined uranium ore. Then you convert that to uranium
1:52:24
Speaker 2: hexafluoride gas, and that's the stuff that you inject into
1:52:28
Speaker 2: the centrifuges. Then you have what's called a cascade of centrifuges,
1:52:31
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of them, all connected together with tubes.
1:52:34
Speaker 2: And then you spin the the uranium hexafluoride gas in
1:52:38
Speaker 2: the centrifuges, and you spin the U two thirty eight,
1:52:41
Speaker 2: which is heavier out and away from the two thirty five,
1:52:44
Speaker 2: which is the sweet stuff. And the more you enrich it,
1:52:47
Speaker 2: then the more capable it is of being used for nukes. Well,
1:52:50
Speaker 2: it's one way to put it. But so they would
1:52:53
Speaker 2: they need like three point six percent U two thirty
1:52:55
Speaker 2: five for their electricity program, they need twenty percent U
1:52:59
Speaker 2: two thirty five for two targets for their medical isotope
1:53:01
Speaker 2: reactors for like cancer treatment, radiation, or like that radioactive
1:53:04
Speaker 2: dye that they put in people to see your circulatory
1:53:07
Speaker 2: system and stuff. But then to make weapons grade uranium
1:53:11
Speaker 2: you need typically above ninety percent pure uranium two thirty five.
1:53:15
Speaker 2: In any case, once you spin it through the centrifuges
1:53:18
Speaker 2: to whatever stage of purity, then you got to convert
1:53:20
Speaker 2: it back into a metal again, whether you're going to
1:53:23
Speaker 2: make fuel rods or whether you're going to try to
1:53:24
Speaker 2: make a bomb warhead out of it. So under the
1:53:27
Speaker 2: Obama Deal of twenty fifteen, the JCPOA, it was really
1:53:31
Speaker 2: just an extra layer on top of the non Pliferation
1:53:34
Speaker 2: Treaty and on top of the safeguards agreement that we
1:53:36
Speaker 2: already had. But the way that was worked out was
1:53:40
Speaker 2: a big part of it was that they would scale
1:53:42
Speaker 2: back their capability to enrich by shutting down I think
1:53:46
Speaker 2: it was two thirds of their centrifuges at ntans, and
1:53:49
Speaker 2: then at fourdoh they would change it from a production
1:53:52
Speaker 2: facility to just a research facility, and then whatever stockpile
1:53:57
Speaker 2: of uranium they came up with would be transferred out
1:53:59
Speaker 2: of the country to Russia and they would turn it
1:54:01
Speaker 2: into fuel rods and send it back. That way, they
1:54:04
Speaker 2: had no stockpile that they could just quickly reintroduce into
1:54:07
Speaker 2: the centrifuges and enrich to a higher grade. They'd have
1:54:10
Speaker 2: to basically start at nothing again. And so under the
1:54:13
Speaker 2: theory and the way the scientists worked it out that
1:54:16
Speaker 2: if they withdrew from the treaty, kicked the inspectors out
1:54:19
Speaker 2: of the country and say we are now making atom bombs,
1:54:22
Speaker 2: it would take them a year to enrich enough uranium
1:54:26
Speaker 2: at weapons grade to make one bomb out of it. Then,
1:54:30
Speaker 2: on top of that you have to have the actual
1:54:32
Speaker 2: experts who know how to machine it into the exact
1:54:36
Speaker 2: specifications as in how to detonate it and everything else,
1:54:40
Speaker 2: and the simpler the nuke, the harder it is to deliver.
1:54:45
Speaker 2: So typically like the Hiroshima bomb was a gun type
1:54:48
Speaker 2: nuke where you just shoot one uranium pit into the
1:54:50
Speaker 2: other one, and which they didn't even test the Trinity
1:54:53
Speaker 2: test was the Nagasaki bomb. Basically they knew it would work,
1:54:56
Speaker 2: but it was essentially a very heavy bomb and very
1:54:58
Speaker 2: difficult to deliver. And virtually all miniaturized implosion bombs in
1:55:04
Speaker 2: the world that can ever be married to a missile,
1:55:07
Speaker 2: they're virtually all made out of plutonium, and they don't
1:55:09
Speaker 2: have a plutonium root to the bomb because under the
1:55:12
Speaker 2: Obama deal, they poured concrete into the Iraq that's Arak,
1:55:16
Speaker 2: which was supposed to be a heavy water reactor which
1:55:18
Speaker 2: can produce weapons. Great plutonium a's waste, but they poured
1:55:21
Speaker 2: concrete into that thing and shut it down completely before
1:55:24
Speaker 2: it was even open. Their reactor that they do have
1:55:27
Speaker 2: operating is at Boucher, and it's a light water reactor,
1:55:31
Speaker 2: which means that it is possible for it to produce weapons.
1:55:34
Speaker 2: Great plutonium is waste, but it's much more difficult. They
1:55:37
Speaker 2: would have to shut it off all the time to
1:55:39
Speaker 2: harvest the stuff out of there and all of that.
1:55:41
Speaker 2: Under inspections, they can't do that.
1:55:43
Speaker 3: So this is all monitored.
1:55:44
Speaker 2: This is all monitor It's like if you had a
1:55:46
Speaker 2: gun shop and you have an ATF cop sitting at
1:55:49
Speaker 2: the bar stool. Well, unless he was fast and furious
1:55:51
Speaker 2: smuggling your guns to cartels. But assuming not that, but
1:55:54
Speaker 2: like assuming he was just a regular cop, Like you
1:55:57
Speaker 2: can't accuse me of selling illegal laser rifles from my
1:56:00
Speaker 2: gunshot when I've got a cop sitting right here. And
1:56:02
Speaker 2: that's the deal here is they got inspectors throughout the place.
1:56:06
Speaker 2: And then what happened was so we had that perfect
1:56:09
Speaker 2: Mexican standoff right where is Israel saying bomb them, they're
1:56:12
Speaker 2: making nukes. We say, no, we won't bomb them, but
1:56:15
Speaker 2: we will if they do, and them saying, don't bomb
1:56:17
Speaker 2: us because we're not. Then Trump called their bluff last June,
1:56:21
Speaker 2: really Net and Yahoo did, and then Trump jumped in
1:56:23
Speaker 2: the thing, and they really did set their nuclear program
1:56:25
Speaker 2: back quite a bit. Now, I don't think there's any
1:56:28
Speaker 2: proof that they destroyed the centrifuges at Natans and Forido,
1:56:31
Speaker 2: they're deep underground under granite and very hard to get at.
1:56:34
Speaker 2: But they got the elevator shafts and they got the
1:56:36
Speaker 2: air shafts, and they if anybody who's working down there,
1:56:39
Speaker 2: they were buried live. The Iranians were incentivized to move
1:56:42
Speaker 2: giant boulders in front of the doors to protect them
1:56:45
Speaker 2: from missiles and attack and stuff like that. But so
1:56:49
Speaker 2: all the reporting is that the Natans and Florida facilities
1:56:52
Speaker 2: are essentially just frozen right now. There's nothing going on there.
1:56:55
Speaker 2: There's open source reporting from last November, and then there
1:56:58
Speaker 2: was a report of in the newspapers just two weeks
1:57:00
Speaker 2: ago or maybe three, based on classified information that there's
1:57:04
Speaker 2: nothing going on there.
1:57:06
Speaker 3: They you know what my deep concern is, Okay, no
1:57:09
Speaker 3: one said what you said to the president.
1:57:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, see that's right.
1:57:14
Speaker 3: Not only that you're right that the people, these elected
1:57:18
Speaker 3: officials and these appointed officials that get into positions around him,
1:57:22
Speaker 3: they don't know this right, which is crazy, dude.
1:57:26
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what that New York Times article. Did
1:57:28
Speaker 2: you read that one where net Yahoo came and they
1:57:30
Speaker 2: sat across from each other at the table like this,
1:57:31
Speaker 2: instead of Trump sitting at the head of the table
1:57:33
Speaker 2: and net Yahuo gave him the whole presentation about how
1:57:35
Speaker 2: easy the war would be. So as soon as he
1:57:38
Speaker 2: left then they said, everyone else at the table said,
1:57:43
Speaker 2: don't listen to him, boss, he's blowing smoke man, that
1:57:46
Speaker 2: this is going to be so easy.
1:57:47
Speaker 3: Now.
1:57:48
Speaker 2: They didn't really tell him, don't do it, but they
1:57:50
Speaker 2: told him, don't trust net Yahoo and that'll be a
1:57:53
Speaker 2: snap the way that he promises and all that. But
1:57:55
Speaker 2: then and look it's Maggie Haberman and them at the
1:57:58
Speaker 2: New York Times. I mean, it seemed like a very
1:57:59
Speaker 2: well reported story from you know, the principles are talking
1:58:02
Speaker 2: to her about this stuff.
1:58:04
Speaker 3: Listen is to what Joe Kennis said as well.
1:58:06
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, So they go around the table and Rubio
1:58:11
Speaker 2: has his say, the vice president has his say, the
1:58:14
Speaker 2: chairman of the joint she's of staff, and whoever. But
1:58:18
Speaker 2: none of as you just said, none of them say
1:58:19
Speaker 2: what I just said, right, And it really is it's
1:58:23
Speaker 2: like a it's like four or five dudes in a
1:58:25
Speaker 2: room who may or may not know very much about
1:58:28
Speaker 2: this really and talking about it, and none of them
1:58:32
Speaker 2: man enough to say, like, mister President, permission to speak
1:58:35
Speaker 2: freely here, sir, don't make this mistake, buddy.
1:58:39
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean that they don't know
1:58:40
Speaker 3: as much as you know about it.
1:58:42
Speaker 2: I think they probably don't, which is wild. I've been
1:58:46
Speaker 2: at this for a long time.
1:58:47
Speaker 3: But that is wild. That is really crazy that you'd
1:58:49
Speaker 3: be in a position of making these decisions without having
1:58:52
Speaker 3: this understanding of the fact that they're not even really
1:58:55
Speaker 3: capable right now of making nuclear weapons.
1:58:58
Speaker 2: If any of them were capable of really knowing about
1:59:02
Speaker 2: it like this, it would be Rubio or Dvance or
1:59:05
Speaker 2: Hell came to the Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff,
1:59:08
Speaker 2: he all of these guys should have been able to
1:59:10
Speaker 2: say to the present, this is an illusory threat, sir.
1:59:13
Speaker 2: Wasn't his really?
1:59:14
Speaker 3: Not right? Wasn't Vance not? There? Was he going on?
1:59:17
Speaker 2: He was not there for the net and Yahoo part.
1:59:19
Speaker 2: But then he came in later, which where he was
1:59:21
Speaker 2: in Azerbaijean prepared for the war?
1:59:23
Speaker 3: All right?
1:59:24
Speaker 2: Was where he was?
1:59:26
Speaker 3: Wasn't Azerbaijean. Didn't they have some sort of a peace
1:59:29
Speaker 3: agreement with Armenia at the time, And oh, I don't
1:59:33
Speaker 3: know both of them.
1:59:34
Speaker 2: Oh I don't know. I had missed that. Then you're right,
1:59:36
Speaker 2: then I think I didn't.
1:59:37
Speaker 3: Know that he visited both of them. Okay, that's one
1:59:39
Speaker 3: of the reasons why he couldn't come back.
1:59:41
Speaker 2: Okay, I assumes preparation for the war they were on.
1:59:44
Speaker 3: If you visit Azerbaijean, you also have to visit Armenia,
1:59:47
Speaker 3: Otherwise it would cause some sort of an international conflict.
1:59:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we support the hereditary dictatorship in Azerbaijean because
1:59:54
Speaker 2: they help us run the oil pipelines west instead of
1:59:56
Speaker 2: north through Russia.
1:59:57
Speaker 3: But it was also because they had made some sort
1:59:59
Speaker 3: of a piece agreement, correct didn't and Armenia.
2:00:02
Speaker 2: Make a possibly, I mean they're they're they're fighting over
2:00:06
Speaker 2: or the contest was over whether Armenia is going to
2:00:09
Speaker 2: open this corridor across Armenia to an Azerbaijani or could
2:00:15
Speaker 2: you an a on the Turkish border?
2:00:19
Speaker 3: Okay, France met in Baku, jd vance and how do
2:00:25
Speaker 3: you say his name? Aliev met in Baku. Discs discussed
2:00:30
Speaker 3: the implementation of historic August eighth White House Peace Summit
2:00:33
Speaker 3: and reaffirmed their shared commitment to regional peace, security, and prosperity.
2:00:37
Speaker 3: Leaders signed the US Azerbaijan Strategic Partnership Charter, which will
2:00:42
Speaker 3: strengthen bilateral relations between our countries. The United States remains
2:00:46
Speaker 3: committed to working with Abajean to unlock the great potential
2:00:50
Speaker 3: of the South Caucus region. So it was a peace summit,
2:00:54
Speaker 3: and so he met with Azerbaijan and he also had
2:00:56
Speaker 3: to meet with Armenia as well. This is February tenth,
2:00:59
Speaker 3: so this is right before the war.
2:01:02
Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, I guess I thought he was like
2:01:05
Speaker 2: just tipping him off. No on your southern border in
2:01:08
Speaker 2: a week or two.
2:01:08
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that the reason for this was that
2:01:12
Speaker 3: he had to meet with both of them, so he
2:01:14
Speaker 3: could not be there. So if I was jd Vance
2:01:17
Speaker 3: and I knew, or rather if I was netan Yahoo
2:01:20
Speaker 3: and I knew that jd Vance was really not into
2:01:22
Speaker 3: this war and didn't want to be a part of
2:01:24
Speaker 3: it at all, I would probably try.
2:01:25
Speaker 2: To time it for then.
2:01:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a good time. You can't even come back.
2:01:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense for the article here, What.
2:01:30
Speaker 3: Does it say? Ah, the gathering had been deliberately small
2:01:34
Speaker 3: to guard against leaks. Other top cabinet secretaries had no
2:01:37
Speaker 3: idea that it was happening. Also absent was Vice President
2:01:41
Speaker 3: jd Vance, who was in Azerbaijan, and the meeting had
2:01:45
Speaker 3: been scheduled on such short notice that he was unable
2:01:48
Speaker 3: to make it back in time. Now, if I was
2:01:50
Speaker 3: Netanyahu and I knew that jd Vance is gonna be
2:01:53
Speaker 3: a Nazerbaijan.
2:01:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really, you know, try to spend too
2:01:59
Speaker 2: much time on the symbolism of things, you know, leave
2:02:01
Speaker 2: that to the symbol minded right as Carlo. But like,
2:02:06
Speaker 2: isn't it meaningful that this is the situation room the
2:02:09
Speaker 2: president is supposed to sit at the head of the table.
2:02:11
Speaker 2: Instead net and Yahoo sat there and Trump sat here
2:02:15
Speaker 2: opposite him and let him run the thing as an equal.
2:02:19
Speaker 3: Instead of why do you think that is? Why do
2:02:21
Speaker 3: you think they have I really don't know.
2:02:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they've been friends for a very long time.
2:02:26
Speaker 2: All the speculation about him being compromised, I mean is
2:02:29
Speaker 2: very possible but unknowable. Really right, Net Yahoo would do that?
2:02:33
Speaker 2: I mean he he brought up Monica Lewinsky to Bill Clinton?
2:02:37
Speaker 2: Did he, Oh, yeah, you know, we're tapping your phone, home, boy,
2:02:39
Speaker 2: we got you on tape. You better let Jonathan Pollard
2:02:42
Speaker 2: out of prison. And then Bill Clinton refused to do
2:02:44
Speaker 2: it because George Tennant and the whole top tier of
2:02:46
Speaker 2: the CIA, we're going to resign over it if he
2:02:49
Speaker 2: did it. So he didn't do it. It was Trump
2:02:51
Speaker 2: that let Pollard out. And now Pollard is running to
2:02:54
Speaker 2: the right of Net Yahoo. He's now announced that he's
2:02:56
Speaker 2: running for the Kannasset over there.
2:02:58
Speaker 3: So the reason and why the Monica Lewinsky scandal went public.
2:03:02
Speaker 2: No, because no, no, no, I don't think so.
2:03:05
Speaker 3: Nan Yahoo's said to have offered Lewinsky tapes for Pollard.
2:03:10
Speaker 3: Oh they had tapes. What do you mean? They have
2:03:12
Speaker 3: the like recordings.
2:03:13
Speaker 2: So maybe it may have been after the scandal had broken,
2:03:17
Speaker 2: but they had him on tape with her, because the
2:03:19
Speaker 2: only tapes were her on the phone with Linda Trip
2:03:21
Speaker 2: that Linda Tripp had recorded, But they had him on.
2:03:24
Speaker 3: The phone with her. I forgot her name.
2:03:27
Speaker 2: You know. The story is the first time Bill Clinton
2:03:31
Speaker 2: met net Yahoo in nineteen ninety six. They were in
2:03:34
Speaker 2: the room for half an hour or something, and when
2:03:36
Speaker 2: they came out, Clinton was just completely exasperated and says,
2:03:39
Speaker 2: who the f does this guy think he is? Who's
2:03:42
Speaker 2: the superpower? And who's the client state? Because Netanyahu had
2:03:46
Speaker 2: just told him like, look here, Butler, here's your orders
2:03:50
Speaker 2: for half an hour, just barked commands at Bill Clinton
2:03:53
Speaker 2: in a way that he was just like, I can't
2:03:54
Speaker 2: believe this guy. Wow, it's hard to feel sorry for him.
2:03:58
Speaker 2: In fact, here's one too. BARACKO Oama was caught on
2:04:00
Speaker 2: a hot mic. This is the only time I've ever
2:04:02
Speaker 2: been sympathetic with Barack Obama. He's caught on a hot
2:04:04
Speaker 2: mic talking to the President of France and he goes, oh, man,
2:04:08
Speaker 2: you think you hate him? I gotta deal with him
2:04:11
Speaker 2: every day. And that was about nat About Ntnyahu.
2:04:15
Speaker 3: Well, wasn't there an issue with JFK and Israel over
2:04:20
Speaker 3: their ability to acquire nuclear weapons?
2:04:22
Speaker 2: Yes, so he was demanding inspections of Demona. There a
2:04:25
Speaker 2: nuclear facility there.
2:04:27
Speaker 3: To this day, they don't officially have nuclear.
2:04:29
Speaker 2: Weapons, correct, And the reason for that is because it's
2:04:33
Speaker 2: illegal for America to give aid to a nuclear weapons
2:04:36
Speaker 2: state that refuses to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty and so,
2:04:41
Speaker 2: and they don't want.
2:04:42
Speaker 3: To do that.
2:04:43
Speaker 2: In fact, they did proliferate nuclear weapons to South Africa,
2:04:45
Speaker 2: who gave them up before the change after apartheid. But
2:04:50
Speaker 2: if if they're if they openly possess nuclear weapons, then
2:04:56
Speaker 2: I mean hell, it should already be illegal because everybody
2:04:59
Speaker 2: already knows. But the Glenn Simington Law says that you
2:05:02
Speaker 2: can't give a military aid to a nuclear weapon state
2:05:06
Speaker 2: that won't sign the NPT. That's America's treaty that we
2:05:08
Speaker 2: forced the whole world to accept, and which by the
2:05:11
Speaker 2: way is in terrible jeopardy now, right because you know,
2:05:16
Speaker 2: Saddam Hussein goes, look my hands are up, I got nothing.
2:05:18
Speaker 2: They invaded him. Anyway, The North Koreans armed up with newts.
2:05:22
Speaker 2: The Libyans said, well, look we have some centrifuge material,
2:05:26
Speaker 2: but we have no operational program, but you can have
2:05:28
Speaker 2: our junk. They killed him. And then the Iranians said, look,
2:05:34
Speaker 2: we can make nukes, but we're not making nukes. They'll
2:05:37
Speaker 2: leave us alone already, and then we kill them. So
2:05:41
Speaker 2: America is the great destroyer of America's non proliferation treaty
2:05:45
Speaker 2: that we foisted on the world, by which the non
2:05:48
Speaker 2: nuclear weapon state promised the non nuclear weapons states promised
2:05:52
Speaker 2: never to get them, and the nuclear weapon states promised
2:05:54
Speaker 2: never to share them. So and that's all in jeopardy now.
2:05:58
Speaker 2: That may not even exist aymore. The Poles are talking
2:06:00
Speaker 2: about getting their own nukes now because of Trump's pivot
2:06:03
Speaker 2: away from Europe in the middle of a war that
2:06:06
Speaker 2: America helped cause over there.
2:06:09
Speaker 3: Jesus, So, Israel officially doesn't have nukes.
2:06:13
Speaker 2: Officially they don't, but everybody knows that they have at
2:06:15
Speaker 2: least two hundred and in fact, I have that personally
2:06:18
Speaker 2: from Mordecai Venunu, who was the Israeli whistleblower who went
2:06:21
Speaker 2: to prison. They kidnapped him in a honey trap plot
2:06:24
Speaker 2: I think in England or in Italy.
2:06:27
Speaker 3: With chicks with chicks.
2:06:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They went to get him laid and
2:06:31
Speaker 2: they kidnapped him and they held him in solitary confinement
2:06:33
Speaker 2: for twenty five years or something. But he gave the
2:06:36
Speaker 2: whole story to the Sunday Times, the London Times, and
2:06:39
Speaker 2: they published it back in I'm going to say eighty six.
2:06:43
Speaker 2: And then what happened was he was on Twitter. He
2:06:46
Speaker 2: may still be on Twitter. But I had an anecdote
2:06:51
Speaker 2: from Daniel Ellsberg, the great whistleblower of the Pentagon Papers
2:06:55
Speaker 2: and who was a friend of mine for a long time.
2:06:56
Speaker 2: He died a couple of years ago now, but he
2:07:00
Speaker 2: had an anecdote about Venunu that turned out was incorrect.
2:07:04
Speaker 2: But I asked Venunu, is this correct, and then he
2:07:06
Speaker 2: said no, it's just like I told the Sunday Times
2:07:09
Speaker 2: back then, and that was that they had two hundred
2:07:11
Speaker 2: atom bombs by the time that he squealed them. And
2:07:14
Speaker 2: we know from Grant F. Smith's research He got this
2:07:17
Speaker 2: through some FOYA documents. He's from the Institute for Research
2:07:21
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern Policy, really great researcher on this, and he
2:07:24
Speaker 2: showed that they had at least been researching hydrogen bombs,
2:07:28
Speaker 2: the big ones, although there's no proof that they ever
2:07:30
Speaker 2: actually made h bombs, and I don't think it's been
2:07:33
Speaker 2: reported that they've made them, but they at least were
2:07:34
Speaker 2: looking into how.
2:07:35
Speaker 3: To jeez and this was part of the conflict that
2:07:40
Speaker 3: JFK had with Israel, yes.
2:07:42
Speaker 2: And trying to register what was then I think the
2:07:46
Speaker 2: American Jewish Council, I believe is what it was called
2:07:49
Speaker 2: the predecessor to APAK as a foreign as foreign agents,
2:07:54
Speaker 2: and then they dissolved it and created APAC instead. I
2:07:56
Speaker 2: guess it's the long and the short of that. How
2:07:58
Speaker 2: they got around that and their people, you know, and
2:08:01
Speaker 2: it was you know, I don't know, man, Honestly, like
2:08:06
Speaker 2: I told you, I was more of a conspiracy theorist
2:08:08
Speaker 2: in the nineties, but I never did all read into
2:08:10
Speaker 2: JFK because there's just one hundred books about it on
2:08:12
Speaker 2: a hundred different theories, and I'm just not sure if
2:08:14
Speaker 2: LBJ hired French hitmen to do it or if the
2:08:16
Speaker 2: Israeli's got James Jesus Angleton to do it, or if
2:08:19
Speaker 2: Alan Dallies got some Cubans to do it, or what
2:08:22
Speaker 2: the hell?
2:08:22
Speaker 3: Right?
2:08:22
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, and so I really get you know,
2:08:26
Speaker 2: I'm I don't. I don't think I ever really could
2:08:30
Speaker 2: figure it out, so well, no one really I just
2:08:32
Speaker 2: kind of leave. There are a lot of people with
2:08:35
Speaker 2: mo Yeah, you know what's funny about that? And I
2:08:38
Speaker 2: think he even admitted this at one point. Man, you
2:08:39
Speaker 2: watched the whole movie.
2:08:40
Speaker 3: Jfk.
2:08:41
Speaker 2: Oh, you watched the whole movie JFK.
2:08:44
Speaker 3: And I'm sorry, man, it's no worries. It's just doctor Pepper.
2:08:48
Speaker 3: I like a little stains on this table.
2:08:50
Speaker 2: There you go and max it live in the edit
2:08:52
Speaker 2: later we'll just clip to Joe and.
2:08:54
Speaker 3: No, we'll just show the doctor Pepper. Why doctor Pepper?
2:08:57
Speaker 3: Why you went to doctor Pepper? You he I should
2:08:59
Speaker 3: tell her, But he brought a whole cooler filled with
2:09:01
Speaker 3: Doctor Pepper.
2:09:02
Speaker 2: I gotta have doctor Pepper man for wait here, No,
2:09:06
Speaker 2: the the uh you watch the whole movie JFK. Right,
2:09:11
Speaker 2: he's got every theory under the sun in there. And
2:09:13
Speaker 2: then as soon as it's over, it says produced by
2:09:16
Speaker 2: Arnan Milchan, who was an Israeli spy and who helped
2:09:20
Speaker 2: Benjamin Ett Yahoo steal critrons, which are an essential part
2:09:24
Speaker 2: of these nuclear.
2:09:25
Speaker 3: Tripers p thue their weapons.
2:09:27
Speaker 2: That's who produced the movie. And so then someone asked
2:09:30
Speaker 2: Oliver Stone, like, hey man, in Israeli spy produced your
2:09:34
Speaker 2: movie where you point the finger at everyone except maybe
2:09:37
Speaker 2: the Israelis. What's about that? And he's like, wow, you're right.
2:09:41
Speaker 2: I forgot exactly how he says it, but he acknowledges that,
2:09:44
Speaker 2: you know what, like it could have been, even that
2:09:46
Speaker 2: my own film was part of put on there.
2:09:49
Speaker 3: Well, especially when you consider the fact that his own
2:09:51
Speaker 3: film was made in what the nineties?
2:09:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, it came out in like ninety one, I think.
2:09:55
Speaker 3: Right nine, So back then he probably didn't know much.
2:10:00
Speaker 2: Is he right? Yeah, probably never even heard the angle
2:10:02
Speaker 2: that would have been the Israelis. But of course, you know,
2:10:06
Speaker 2: LBJ was very close to the Zionist and even had
2:10:08
Speaker 2: a massad agent for a girlfriend. I'm sorry I forget
2:10:10
Speaker 2: her name, but one of his mistresses was a massad agent.
2:10:13
Speaker 2: And then he completely reversed all those policies as soon
2:10:17
Speaker 2: as Am was in power. But of course same thing
2:10:19
Speaker 2: with Vietnam. He reversed well, or at least released any
2:10:23
Speaker 2: skepticism about Vietnam and said, let's go ahead and escalate
2:10:26
Speaker 2: there and all that. So, like I say that one's
2:10:29
Speaker 2: it's too muddy for me to try to wade through
2:10:31
Speaker 2: and figure out exactly it's all true on that one.
2:10:37
Speaker 3: The not so secret life of Matilda is that how
2:10:41
Speaker 3: you say her name, Matilda Krim? That was Jame Israeli
2:10:44
Speaker 3: spy girlfriend.
2:10:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe that's her. Good old Phil Weiss. I
2:10:50
Speaker 2: love that guy. He's a great guy. That's Amanda weisttt
2:10:52
Speaker 2: Net is a great website for anti zionist.
2:10:55
Speaker 3: The no Daylight policy, the US alignment with the Israeli
2:10:58
Speaker 3: government so obviously today, and Trump's deference to Net and
2:11:01
Speaker 3: Yahoo was born under Matilda Krim's dear friend Lyndon Johnson
2:11:07
Speaker 3: in the feverish week surrounding the nineteen sixty seven war. Krim,
2:11:11
Speaker 3: who had once emigrated to Israel, and her husband, Arthur,
2:11:14
Speaker 3: a leading fundraiser, were continually at Johnson's side and advised
2:11:18
Speaker 3: him on what to say publicly. I mean, you got
2:11:21
Speaker 3: to give it up to a country the size of
2:11:23
Speaker 3: Rhode island that has that kind of fucking poll.
2:11:26
Speaker 2: They got their priorities straight, that's for sure.
2:11:28
Speaker 3: Kind of amazing that they've been doing this since the
2:11:31
Speaker 3: sixties and before yep, I mean.
2:11:34
Speaker 2: I mean they threatened Harry Truman. They bribed him, and
2:11:37
Speaker 2: they also threatened him. They sent his daughter's memoirs that
2:11:39
Speaker 2: the Ziona sent letter bombs to the White House, and
2:11:43
Speaker 2: they'd stop at nothing to get their state Truman. Yeah. Wow,
2:11:47
Speaker 2: and they pay for his reelection too. In fact, there's
2:11:51
Speaker 2: a great scholar named John B. Judas jud I s
2:11:57
Speaker 2: and he wrote a book. Yeah, I kind of if
2:12:01
Speaker 2: you mispronounce it, you know. He actually also wrote out
2:12:04
Speaker 2: as long as I'm talking about him, he wrote a
2:12:06
Speaker 2: great article for Foreign Affairs in nineteen ninety five about
2:12:09
Speaker 2: the neo Conservatives called from Trotskyism to Anachronism, and it
2:12:14
Speaker 2: was about, how, now that the Cold War's over, who
2:12:16
Speaker 2: needs these crazy hawks anymore?
2:12:18
Speaker 3: Right?
2:12:18
Speaker 2: And then these are the guys who took us, who
2:12:20
Speaker 2: launched the Iraq War, you know a few years later,
2:12:23
Speaker 2: seven years later or whatever he was, he was saying,
2:12:26
Speaker 2: they're a spent force and they should be by now
2:12:28
Speaker 2: because they had been Trotskyite communists and then had moved
2:12:31
Speaker 2: to the right for the militarism and stuff. But he
2:12:33
Speaker 2: wrote a book about how Truman did this, and I
2:12:36
Speaker 2: think that was part of it, was this intimidation campaign.
2:12:39
Speaker 2: And it was his own daughter that in her book
2:12:40
Speaker 2: and her memoir said that they sent letter bombs to
2:12:43
Speaker 2: the White House to attend and they also paid for
2:12:46
Speaker 2: his elections. Was you know, carrot and stick kind of
2:12:48
Speaker 2: a thing. And then yeah, look, if you ran the
2:12:52
Speaker 2: Israeli foreign ministry, you only have one priority in the
2:12:55
Speaker 2: world that outranks every other priority by a million billion,
2:12:58
Speaker 2: and that is your relationship with the United States of America.
2:13:02
Speaker 2: How friendly is the president, how friendly is the Senate?
2:13:04
Speaker 2: What do we got to do to make sure that
2:13:06
Speaker 2: everything stays in line? It's everything to them.
2:13:09
Speaker 3: So let me ask you this, how what do you
2:13:11
Speaker 3: think happens with Iran? Now? Like, how does this play out?
2:13:14
Speaker 2: If you had to speculate, Well, I'll tell you that,
2:13:18
Speaker 2: first of all, they're more likely to go ahead and
2:13:20
Speaker 2: try to break out and make an atom bomb now
2:13:22
Speaker 2: than ever before. Although I'm not necessarily predicting that. I
2:13:25
Speaker 2: think you know, Trump has proven by calling their bluff
2:13:30
Speaker 2: on their latent deterrent. He has proven he's willing to
2:13:33
Speaker 2: bomb them if they really break out and try to
2:13:35
Speaker 2: make a nuclear weapon. It's almost impossible that they could
2:13:38
Speaker 2: do that without us knowing. And then this president, and
2:13:41
Speaker 2: I think the next one too, would be willing to
2:13:43
Speaker 2: go back to war over it. As Barack Obama promised
2:13:45
Speaker 2: he would absolutely launch a war against Iran if they
2:13:50
Speaker 2: broke out and tried to make an Adam bomb. And
2:13:53
Speaker 2: you know, he did an interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in
2:13:55
Speaker 2: The Atlantic called as President, I don't bluff, where he's
2:13:58
Speaker 2: essentially begging Jeffrey gold Berg to tell Net Yahoo and them,
2:14:02
Speaker 2: I really really mean it. If they try to make
2:14:05
Speaker 2: a nuke, I will bomb them, but just let me
2:14:07
Speaker 2: try to solve this another way. So I think that
2:14:10
Speaker 2: promised stance. This is the same as w Bush, same
2:14:12
Speaker 2: as Obama, same as Biden, and I think that will
2:14:14
Speaker 2: continue to last into the next presidency. And if the
2:14:17
Speaker 2: Iranians are smart, what they'll do is they'll hold the
2:14:20
Speaker 2: same posture they've had, which is we're not giving up Enrichmond,
2:14:24
Speaker 2: and we're not giving up our capability to make a
2:14:26
Speaker 2: bomb one day, but we're never gonna call it that
2:14:28
Speaker 2: and just don't do this to us anymore and try
2:14:31
Speaker 2: to bet on the fact that Trump's only got three
2:14:33
Speaker 2: years left and the next presidents won't be so belligerent
2:14:37
Speaker 2: and they won't call the bluff and go ahead and
2:14:39
Speaker 2: launch another war unless they break out and try to
2:14:43
Speaker 2: make a nuke. And as Darrel was saying, they're so
2:14:46
Speaker 2: much more powerful than all their neighbors conventionally, they really
2:14:49
Speaker 2: have no need to make a nuclear bomb, and they can,
2:14:53
Speaker 2: I think successfully deter Israel even with their conventional missile force,
2:14:57
Speaker 2: and we saw them just absolutely blast the crap out
2:15:00
Speaker 2: of Tel Aviv.
2:15:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm very underreported.
2:15:03
Speaker 2: Right, and I think you know, they should not have
2:15:06
Speaker 2: killed the conservative old Ayatola, right, and they kill him
2:15:10
Speaker 2: and apparently like the new Iotola his son, they killed
2:15:15
Speaker 2: his mother and sister and or mother and wife and baby.
2:15:19
Speaker 2: And that's the new Iotola over there is. You know,
2:15:23
Speaker 2: he's got to be more radical than his father. He's
2:15:26
Speaker 2: got to be angrier at us than his father ever was.
2:15:29
Speaker 3: And so what is the past the resolution?
2:15:33
Speaker 2: Well, this is it's so unfortunate because honestly, you know, whatever,
2:15:38
Speaker 2: maybe some genius at something tank has a better idea
2:15:41
Speaker 2: but I really think that the thing to do is
2:15:43
Speaker 2: just quit. The thing to do is for America to
2:15:45
Speaker 2: just come home. For Trump to say that the law
2:15:48
Speaker 2: I won. Yeah, but we don't really need these bases
2:15:51
Speaker 2: of the American people don't need to dominate the Middle East.
2:15:54
Speaker 2: We're not worried about the Soviet Union invading Iran and
2:15:57
Speaker 2: dominating the Gulf anymore. So forget the Carter doc. Let's
2:16:00
Speaker 2: just come home. And I think if we do that,
2:16:03
Speaker 2: we bring all of our ships home, all of our planes,
2:16:05
Speaker 2: all of our bases, close them all up, and come home,
2:16:08
Speaker 2: then that shifts the entire burden onto Iran that they
2:16:11
Speaker 2: still have to deal with the rest of Eurasia. We're
2:16:13
Speaker 2: not the one dependent on their hydrocarbon exports. Everybody else is.
2:16:18
Speaker 2: So are they going to now levy attacks to get
2:16:20
Speaker 2: through the Strait of Horror? Moves? Absolutely, but too bad.
2:16:23
Speaker 2: Shouldn't have started this war then nothing we could do
2:16:26
Speaker 2: about that. Now, Willie Nelson said, you know, so like
2:16:29
Speaker 2: the way going forward is and by the way, like
2:16:31
Speaker 2: in Panama, they tax ships going through the Isthmus there
2:16:36
Speaker 2: through the Panama Canal, the Indonesians, I believe it is
2:16:40
Speaker 2: a tax people going through some of the bottlenecks in
2:16:43
Speaker 2: the Indies, and so it's not entirely unheard of that,
2:16:48
Speaker 2: you know, the dominant power there is going to levy
2:16:51
Speaker 2: a fee on people coming in and out of there.
2:16:53
Speaker 2: But again, too late, too bad. I mean, America already
2:16:58
Speaker 2: we have the exactly what Marco Rubio says he wants
2:17:01
Speaker 2: now we had on February the twenty seventh, and then
2:17:06
Speaker 2: they launched this war on the twenty eighth, which, by
2:17:08
Speaker 2: the way, was the anniversary of the Waco raid. It
2:17:10
Speaker 2: is a pretty ugly time to start an aggressive war.
2:17:12
Speaker 2: And in fact, as long as I'm on that, and
2:17:15
Speaker 2: I know you know this, but it's really worth dwelling
2:17:17
Speaker 2: on that they killed not just one, but two girls'
2:17:21
Speaker 2: schools in their initial assault. They killed in one building
2:17:25
Speaker 2: they'd killed one hundred and I think seventy three or
2:17:28
Speaker 2: seventy four, almost all little girls, and then in the
2:17:32
Speaker 2: other one was twenty more. And with that was an
2:17:35
Speaker 2: experimental new Lockheed missile that fires tungsten pellets out the
2:17:39
Speaker 2: front before it debtonates or as it detonates in a
2:17:44
Speaker 2: creative new way to cut people to shreds. And the
2:17:47
Speaker 2: thing is about that is as there's this great media
2:17:50
Speaker 2: critic named Adam Johnson who pointed out, this is equivalent
2:17:55
Speaker 2: to the Oklahoma City bombing, which you know, for young people,
2:18:01
Speaker 2: Oklahoma was nine to eleven before nine to eleven, Right,
2:18:04
Speaker 2: it was massive, and never mind was a bunch of
2:18:05
Speaker 2: FBI informants who did it and got away with it.
2:18:07
Speaker 2: That's another interview, Joe, But it was all.
2:18:10
Speaker 3: Under another interview, and that's a deep one.
2:18:12
Speaker 2: Yeah it is, and I'm here for you, buddy, but yeah,
2:18:15
Speaker 2: but they kill one hundred and sixty seven people were
2:18:18
Speaker 2: killed in that thing, and it was just the ugliest
2:18:20
Speaker 2: damn thing. And it included like twenty kids in the
2:18:22
Speaker 2: daycare there. Right, that was the cover of newsweek was
2:18:24
Speaker 2: a firefier holding a dead baby.
2:18:26
Speaker 3: So worst thing.
2:18:27
Speaker 2: This is the most traumatic thing for this country and
2:18:29
Speaker 2: in the heartland of Oklahoma City and all that. Well,
2:18:33
Speaker 2: that's what America did to he run only the entire
2:18:36
Speaker 2: building full of kids, all one hundred and sixty seven
2:18:39
Speaker 2: of them, a few teachers, but virtually all of them
2:18:42
Speaker 2: little girls, and another school down the street to or
2:18:47
Speaker 2: relatively nearby where they at the volleyball game where they killed.
2:18:50
Speaker 2: Even more so, now think about the Pearl Harbor attack,
2:18:53
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump himself compared it to Pearl Harbor out
2:18:56
Speaker 2: of context, but still it was a sneak, surprise attack
2:18:59
Speaker 2: and the middle of negotiations on behalf of a foreign
2:19:02
Speaker 2: country over a lie, and then they killed a bunch
2:19:07
Speaker 2: of kids. It's like, imagine if at Pearl Harbor, if
2:19:10
Speaker 2: our story of Pearl Harbor was that they sank all
2:19:13
Speaker 2: our heroes and drown them down in their ships in
2:19:16
Speaker 2: the halls, stuck in their holes down there. But also
2:19:21
Speaker 2: they wiped out schools full of one hundred and eighty
2:19:24
Speaker 2: little girls, the children of those sailors who drown at
2:19:29
Speaker 2: Pearl Harbor.
2:19:30
Speaker 3: Oh.
2:19:30
Speaker 2: And also they killed FDR that same day too. Oh
2:19:34
Speaker 2: and also as a Catholic country, and he's also the Pope.
2:19:38
Speaker 2: Imagine how we would react to that. Imagine what our
2:19:41
Speaker 2: story of Pearl Harbor to this day would be. I'll
2:19:43
Speaker 2: tell you what our story of the World War two
2:19:45
Speaker 2: would be. It would be that we kept New Kingham
2:19:48
Speaker 2: till they were all dead. Is what our story of
2:19:51
Speaker 2: World War two would be. If that's how they had
2:19:53
Speaker 2: done us at Pearl Harbor. It's just somehow we just
2:19:59
Speaker 2: don't really think of it. In that context, but we
2:20:01
Speaker 2: should if that had happened to us again, just like
2:20:05
Speaker 2: we you know, we did a little on Ukraine there
2:20:07
Speaker 2: and the way America just absolutely pushes their luck. If
2:20:11
Speaker 2: Russia overthrew the government of Canada twice in ten years
2:20:14
Speaker 2: because they kept voting wrong, we would invade Canada and
2:20:17
Speaker 2: nuke Moscow. And in fact, when you bring up the analogy,
2:20:21
Speaker 2: it's completely absurd, right, How ridiculous is it that the
2:20:25
Speaker 2: Russians would dare try to overthrow the regime in Ottawa,
2:20:28
Speaker 2: that they would dare threaten to try to kick us
2:20:29
Speaker 2: out of our bases in Alaska, or any of these
2:20:31
Speaker 2: kinds of things, that they would go to war with
2:20:33
Speaker 2: the people of Vancouver who refuse to accept the new
2:20:35
Speaker 2: ku junta his comic book Crazy, They wouldn't dare. But
2:20:39
Speaker 2: we do that to them, you know, and we act like,
2:20:42
Speaker 2: as doctor Paul said, if we go around the world
2:20:46
Speaker 2: killing people like this, bombing people like this, and we
2:20:49
Speaker 2: think that we can just get away with it and
2:20:51
Speaker 2: not have to suffer the blowback, then we do that
2:20:54
Speaker 2: at our own peril. And he was speaking for the
2:20:56
Speaker 2: government as a member of Congress at the time, that
2:20:58
Speaker 2: we're putting the American people in danger by acting this way.
2:21:02
Speaker 2: It's completely crazy. You know. The remember the site fought
2:21:07
Speaker 2: Lah that the old Iotola, the Iatola before last last
2:21:11
Speaker 2: Komani put on Salmon Rushdi, the author of the book
2:21:14
Speaker 2: The Satanic Verses, where people and people have tried to
2:21:18
Speaker 2: kill him numerous times, including got his eyeball in one case.
2:21:23
Speaker 2: We've had a real problem with ben Ladenite Jahati terrorism
2:21:26
Speaker 2: over the time. We have not had the sites. We
2:21:29
Speaker 2: have not had the Iotola Sistani in Iraq or the
2:21:33
Speaker 2: Iatola Kamede declare that all good believers should attack the West.
2:21:38
Speaker 2: Now they could do that. That's the kind of fire
2:21:42
Speaker 2: that we're playing with. It's extremely dangerous. I mean Ben
2:21:44
Speaker 2: Lauden didn't even really have a religious rank. He was
2:21:47
Speaker 2: just a rich guy who he had earned respect because
2:21:49
Speaker 2: he was wounded in battle and stuff. He had money
2:21:52
Speaker 2: and influence. But if the Iotola Istani put out a
2:21:57
Speaker 2: full jahad, which I'm not saying he would do that,
2:21:59
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't have any real reasona believe that
2:22:01
Speaker 2: he would go that far. But he's been willing to
2:22:03
Speaker 2: stand up to the United States numerous times, especially during
2:22:06
Speaker 2: the war in the last couple of wars over there
2:22:11
Speaker 2: and so, and remember what happened the night that they
2:22:14
Speaker 2: started this war on the February of the twenty eighth.
2:22:18
Speaker 2: The next day, on Saturday, the twenty ninth, or I
2:22:22
Speaker 2: think it was Friday, was the twenty eighth, and it
2:22:24
Speaker 2: was like late in the night they started the war.
2:22:26
Speaker 2: And then Saturday, I believe was the twenty ninth, and
2:22:30
Speaker 2: an American immigrant from Sierra Leone here in Austin took
2:22:36
Speaker 2: an AR fifteen put on a shirt with the Ayatola
2:22:39
Speaker 2: and an Iranian flag on it. I didn't even know
2:22:41
Speaker 2: they had she had since Sierra Leone, Joe, but I
2:22:44
Speaker 2: guess they do. And he went down to Sixth Street
2:22:47
Speaker 2: and he shot eighteen people, killed three, and wounded fifteen
2:22:51
Speaker 2: people in an immediate blowback terrorist attack called backdraft. I
2:22:56
Speaker 2: coined the phrase of my book that and if blowback
2:22:59
Speaker 2: means long term consequences from secret foreign policies that the
2:23:03
Speaker 2: American people then don't understand and are left up to
2:23:06
Speaker 2: false explanations, are left susceptible to false explanations, well then
2:23:11
Speaker 2: back draft terrorism is when the consequences of your overt
2:23:14
Speaker 2: foreign policies just blow up right in your face, and
2:23:17
Speaker 2: you know, frankly, like those three people were crucified for Israel,
2:23:21
Speaker 2: for their sins for and fifteen more wounded and I
2:23:25
Speaker 2: don't know how terribly wounded. For all I know, people
2:23:27
Speaker 2: are still in the hospital or that thing. And that
2:23:29
Speaker 2: was an immediate blowback terrorist attack from this war just
2:23:33
Speaker 2: right away. And the kind of danger that our government
2:23:37
Speaker 2: continues to put us in through these interventions over there.
2:23:39
Speaker 2: At some point, you know, all those sort of hypotheticals
2:23:44
Speaker 2: about yeah, but what if Russia took over the world,
2:23:46
Speaker 2: or what if China did if it wasn't us or whatever,
2:23:49
Speaker 2: those have got to just kind of fall away, you know,
2:23:51
Speaker 2: by the way, so like there's no real reason to
2:23:53
Speaker 2: fear that in the first place, but also who in
2:23:55
Speaker 2: the hell are we to stop it at this point? Right?
2:23:58
Speaker 2: Another South Park reference, when Cartman is so scared by
2:24:01
Speaker 2: the Chinese display at the Olympics ceremony, he gets all
2:24:04
Speaker 2: paranoid that China's coming for us, so he recruits Butters
2:24:07
Speaker 2: to come with him to fight and keep all the
2:24:09
Speaker 2: Chinese away, And then over and over again throughout the episode,
2:24:12
Speaker 2: Butters keeps like closing his eyes and shooting some guy
2:24:16
Speaker 2: accidentally in the dick, just over and over again, and
2:24:19
Speaker 2: then by the end of the episode, Cartman says, you
2:24:21
Speaker 2: know what, just forget it. Okay, if that's the best
2:24:24
Speaker 2: you can do. Butters, let's just stop. We're just going around.
2:24:28
Speaker 2: This is not working our intervention.
2:24:30
Speaker 3: It's just not What do you predict is going to
2:24:33
Speaker 3: happen with Iran?
2:24:35
Speaker 2: No, I don't know. I'm really worried. I mean, I
2:24:38
Speaker 2: try not to take Trump too seriously when he's you know,
2:24:41
Speaker 2: or too literally when he's being hyperbolic, but he has
2:24:44
Speaker 2: threatened to nuke them over and over again, including just
2:24:46
Speaker 2: the other day he said the country's going to have
2:24:48
Speaker 2: a glow around it, you know, when I'm done with
2:24:51
Speaker 2: them or whatever.
2:24:54
Speaker 3: I mean.
2:24:55
Speaker 2: I no, no, I don't. I'm not predicting that, but
2:24:58
Speaker 2: I think it's it's si embolic right of his frustration.
2:25:02
Speaker 2: He absolutely just should not have done this, and now
2:25:05
Speaker 2: he has no good way out of it. Right he
2:25:07
Speaker 2: could just declare victory and it would be fine by me.
2:25:10
Speaker 2: In fact, there was a story in the Jerusalem Post
2:25:14
Speaker 2: the end of April I think I think it was
2:25:18
Speaker 2: like April twenty eighth, about how Trump ordered the intelligence
2:25:21
Speaker 2: agencies to do an estimate about what would happen if
2:25:24
Speaker 2: I just walked away, right, And then they're looking into it, well,
2:25:28
Speaker 2: just how bad will Iran exploit the new vacuum that
2:25:31
Speaker 2: we've created in the power and influence that we're handing
2:25:34
Speaker 2: to them. How bad will it really be? Because he
2:25:37
Speaker 2: has no options to fix it, He just doesn't. You
2:25:40
Speaker 2: want a regime change in Tehran? You can drop a
2:25:42
Speaker 2: hydrogen bomb on the capital city and kill ten million
2:25:45
Speaker 2: people and then claim the desolation is peace, or you
2:25:49
Speaker 2: can just forget it and like, man, you know what,
2:25:53
Speaker 2: we're all tough and badass enough to kill all these people.
2:25:56
Speaker 2: We should be tough enough to admit when we screwed up.
2:25:59
Speaker 2: Then Afghanistan we stayed for twenty years because Washington couldn't
2:26:03
Speaker 2: admit that we can't win this war. There's only one
2:26:06
Speaker 2: way to tame the Pashtuns, and that is kill them all,
2:26:10
Speaker 2: and we're not willing to do that.
2:26:12
Speaker 3: So what are we doing?
2:26:13
Speaker 2: We're just losing slowly. And then what they do. They
2:26:15
Speaker 2: finally admitted it. They finally just said, fine, I guess
2:26:18
Speaker 2: we lost and left. That's what we got to do here.
2:26:20
Speaker 2: But sooner is better?
2:26:22
Speaker 3: Do you think that it's possible that this war will
2:26:24
Speaker 3: go on to the end of his regime and then
2:26:26
Speaker 3: whoever comes into power in twenty twenty eight then gets out.
2:26:31
Speaker 2: God I hope not. I can't imagine what's going to
2:26:34
Speaker 2: happen if this thing keeps on for three years. You know,
2:26:37
Speaker 2: this is a real flaw in our system. Quite frankly,
2:26:40
Speaker 2: is like, if we had a parliament, we could just
2:26:42
Speaker 2: vote no confidence in this guy and put a new
2:26:45
Speaker 2: guy in there whose fault this isn't and try to
2:26:47
Speaker 2: get him to resolve it. Instead, all we can do
2:26:50
Speaker 2: is wait three years, wait for him to kill over
2:26:52
Speaker 2: of a heart attack, or wait for his own cabinet
2:26:54
Speaker 2: to overthrow him in the name of him being you know,
2:26:57
Speaker 2: too demented to continue, which is not going to happen.
2:27:01
Speaker 2: You know that twenty fifth Amendment They always invoke that,
2:27:03
Speaker 2: like they could do a coup against him for being
2:27:05
Speaker 2: a Russian agent or whatever back in his first term.
2:27:07
Speaker 3: He can't do that.
2:27:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, if they didn't do it with Biden, he would
2:27:11
Speaker 2: have to be completely off his rocker and to a
2:27:15
Speaker 2: degree where his own cabinet is going to agree to
2:27:17
Speaker 2: overthrow him, which I just think is virtually impossible. So
2:27:22
Speaker 2: The good news is right, is that's he just flip
2:27:25
Speaker 2: up on anything, right, He just changed his mind about anything.
2:27:27
Speaker 2: In fact, when he announced the ceasefire, he said, we're
2:27:29
Speaker 2: gonna We're going to negotiate based on Iran's eleven point proposal.
2:27:34
Speaker 2: Like okay, man, fine, right, go from unconditional surrendered to
2:27:38
Speaker 2: surrendering unconditionally like, call it whatever you want. And he
2:27:42
Speaker 2: is good at that. You could call that a gift
2:27:44
Speaker 2: if you want to. Politically that he can just pretend like, yeah, no,
2:27:47
Speaker 2: I meant.
2:27:47
Speaker 3: To do that. So what is the hold up? Like
2:27:49
Speaker 3: what are they disagreeing on?
2:27:51
Speaker 2: Well, he's got to deal with net and Yahoo, right,
2:27:54
Speaker 2: the master Blaster thing you know from Thunderdome on his back,
2:27:58
Speaker 2: shouting in his ear what he's got to do, what
2:28:00
Speaker 2: he's got to not do. In the sixty minutes interview,
2:28:03
Speaker 2: he tells the major Garrett that you know, we're not done.
2:28:10
Speaker 2: The war's not over until we get that uranium. And
2:28:13
Speaker 2: Garre says, well, how are we gonna get He says,
2:28:14
Speaker 2: Trump promised me he wants to get it. He's going
2:28:17
Speaker 2: to get it. And of course they have this ever
2:28:21
Speaker 2: since they announced the ceasefire. The Israels immediately escalated their
2:28:24
Speaker 2: bombing campaign in Lebanon just to destroy the ceasefire. This
2:28:28
Speaker 2: is what prompted Tucker Carlson to say that Trump has
2:28:30
Speaker 2: clearly been somehow enslaved by Netan Yahoo, that he's willing
2:28:34
Speaker 2: to put up with that. As Bill Clinton said, again,
2:28:36
Speaker 2: who's the superpower and who's the client state? How is
2:28:39
Speaker 2: that we have a ceasefire deal and then you can
2:28:41
Speaker 2: come and veto it like this and then not be
2:28:44
Speaker 2: chastised and not told to get back in your corner.
2:28:47
Speaker 2: We're handling this And I really just don't know the
2:28:51
Speaker 2: answer to that. Some people speculate that it's blackmail, or
2:28:54
Speaker 2: it's just the bribery, or he's just into it. He
2:28:58
Speaker 2: just you know, he wants to be great, he wants
2:29:01
Speaker 2: to have a legacy. This is I really should study
2:29:04
Speaker 2: more about this. But this is a part of libertarian
2:29:06
Speaker 2: economic theory called public choice theory, which is kind of
2:29:10
Speaker 2: a clunky name, but it just means that the public
2:29:13
Speaker 2: choices are still made by private individuals and they're acting
2:29:17
Speaker 2: based on what's good for them rather than what's good
2:29:19
Speaker 2: for the country. Like Strobe Talbot, we need those Lockkeey dollars.
2:29:23
Speaker 2: We need those Polish votes, So we do a policy
2:29:26
Speaker 2: that ultimately is bad for the country, even though it's
2:29:29
Speaker 2: good for the Democrats at the time. The same thing here,
2:29:33
Speaker 2: what's good for the country is to just come home.
2:29:36
Speaker 2: And you can hear this just built in. People don't
2:29:38
Speaker 2: even question. It's just built in, of course, to every
2:29:40
Speaker 2: single discussion about this. How are we going to do
2:29:43
Speaker 2: this in a way that it looks good enough for
2:29:46
Speaker 2: Trump that he's willing to accept his defeat here, right,
2:29:49
Speaker 2: How can we spin it for him? How big of
2:29:51
Speaker 2: a gold medal do we have to give him, How
2:29:52
Speaker 2: big of a ticker tape parade do we have to
2:29:55
Speaker 2: give them? How firm of a pat on the back
2:29:58
Speaker 2: and a congratulations do we have to give him for
2:30:01
Speaker 2: him to decide that it's okay to come home otherwise,
2:30:05
Speaker 2: and without looking like too much of a jerk himself
2:30:07
Speaker 2: for what he's done here and then and having to
2:30:09
Speaker 2: live with it for three years the aftermath of however,
2:30:12
Speaker 2: it works out with Iran newly dominant, and so again
2:30:17
Speaker 2: Bush put Iran up two pegs in Baghdad, Obama put
2:30:21
Speaker 2: him up two pegs by building the caliphate and then
2:30:23
Speaker 2: helping them destroy it again, and then of course Alcada
2:30:27
Speaker 2: rules Damascus now, so that's a big hit against them.
2:30:30
Speaker 2: But what what Donald Trump has done with this war
2:30:33
Speaker 2: is about the least equivalent to what w. Bush did
2:30:36
Speaker 2: in terms of enhancing Iranian power in the region. It's
2:30:39
Speaker 2: like the guy in the football in the football game
2:30:42
Speaker 2: grabs the ball and then runs the wrong direction and
2:30:45
Speaker 2: scores the goal for the other team.
2:30:47
Speaker 3: Do you really think it's not bad?
2:30:49
Speaker 2: Oh, it's absolutely.
2:30:50
Speaker 3: I mean, look before, despite the destruction of their.
2:30:54
Speaker 2: Na absolutely oh yeah, yeah, because it's just as simple
2:30:58
Speaker 2: as this. Right on February the two, twenty seventh, the
2:31:00
Speaker 2: Gulf was open for business and the illusion of American
2:31:04
Speaker 2: conventional era and naval power kept it that way, and
2:31:07
Speaker 2: nobody questioned it. It's America's dominated order. Yes, Iran has
2:31:13
Speaker 2: Iraq and they have hasball in southern Lebanon, but hell,
2:31:16
Speaker 2: we even got soon. He's ruling in Damascus now, and
2:31:19
Speaker 2: so the GCC in including Jordan and Turkey and Israel.
2:31:24
Speaker 2: This is America's empire in the Middle East. On February
2:31:27
Speaker 2: twenty ninth, thirtieth, I mean, well no, sorry, there's no
2:31:30
Speaker 2: wooden leap here. On March first, second, third this year,
2:31:34
Speaker 2: all that was over. I mean, Darryl Cooper again, is
2:31:37
Speaker 2: you know we do this show Provoked every Friday night,
2:31:39
Speaker 2: and he said, listen, I'm hearing from my friends in
2:31:42
Speaker 2: the Pentagon. This was one week into the war. He goes,
2:31:44
Speaker 2: I'm here for my friends. This war is not going well.
2:31:47
Speaker 2: They're hitting all our bases. They've killed a couple of
2:31:50
Speaker 2: our guys, and they're hitting our runways and hitting our
2:31:53
Speaker 2: radars and hitting our planes. And we knew it then,
2:31:57
Speaker 2: right then, just and I'm sorry, man, it's just true.
2:32:00
Speaker 2: Told just so for twenty years, all of our assets
2:32:04
Speaker 2: in the golf are up for grabs. They can reach
2:32:06
Speaker 2: out and touch us there and they're in a damn
2:32:08
Speaker 2: thing that we can do about it, you know, And
2:32:11
Speaker 2: just absolutely it is true.
2:32:14
Speaker 3: Scott. You're a real bummer. But thank you.
2:32:16
Speaker 2: It's a lot of fun, isn't it talking to me.
2:32:19
Speaker 2: It is.
2:32:20
Speaker 3: It's good to get your perspective. And I really wish
2:32:23
Speaker 3: someone had had your perspective before this all got started,
2:32:27
Speaker 3: at least an understanding of the ability to enrich the
2:32:31
Speaker 3: uranium and turn into an actual weapon. But thank you
2:32:34
Speaker 3: very much. Tell everybody about your shows where people can
2:32:37
Speaker 3: find them where people can find you.
2:32:40
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So I do the Scott Horton Show, which is
2:32:42
Speaker 2: my interview show and Provoked with Daryl Cooper, and where
2:32:47
Speaker 2: can people get those here on the youtubes and on
2:32:51
Speaker 2: Spotify and all those things. And then I have I'm
2:32:56
Speaker 2: the editorial director of anti War dot com. I'm the
2:32:58
Speaker 2: director of the Libertarians too, that's Libertarian Institute dot org.
2:33:02
Speaker 2: And for the deep deep dive and the deep background
2:33:04
Speaker 2: on all this stuff. I have the Scott Horton Academy
2:33:07
Speaker 2: a Foreign Policy and Freedom at Scott Horton Academy dot com.
2:33:09
Speaker 2: And oh you know what, I have them here. If
2:33:11
Speaker 2: I can just show my books real quick, I can
2:33:15
Speaker 2: find the zipper on this thing, gol piece for you. Here,
2:33:25
Speaker 2: got fools Aaron on Afghanistan, enough already on the war
2:33:30
Speaker 2: on terrorism, and Provoked on Russia and Ukraine.
2:33:33
Speaker 3: Boy, those are some fat ass folks. Dude, you do
2:33:36
Speaker 3: a lot of work.
2:33:37
Speaker 2: I do. I have a lot of jobs. I work
2:33:39
Speaker 2: real hard on this stuff and these have been very
2:33:42
Speaker 2: well received. You know, I'm basically my job is I
2:33:48
Speaker 2: was inspired by Bill Hicks like this when I was
2:33:50
Speaker 2: a young kid. There's a great interview with Bill Hicks
2:33:52
Speaker 2: on Raw Time, which was the heavy metal show on
2:33:55
Speaker 2: the Access channel here in town. And the thing is
2:33:59
Speaker 2: probably not too long before he died, and this is
2:34:01
Speaker 2: of course the days before the internet and everything, where
2:34:05
Speaker 2: he talks about the importance of seeing people get up
2:34:08
Speaker 2: there and tell the truth and not be afraid to
2:34:10
Speaker 2: tell the truth and set the example for other people.
2:34:13
Speaker 2: And you know, at that time, it was like to
2:34:15
Speaker 2: have a guy like him, a comedian, able to tell
2:34:18
Speaker 2: the truth on a platform where other people could hear it.
2:34:20
Speaker 2: It was just so exciting to even it was like
2:34:23
Speaker 2: just breaking through this you know, impenetrable force field. And
2:34:27
Speaker 2: then he was just saying, he says, well, well, if
2:34:30
Speaker 2: that guy can do it, well, then maybe I can
2:34:32
Speaker 2: do it. And I'll get up there and I'll say
2:34:33
Speaker 2: what I think is true too, and then that kind
2:34:35
Speaker 2: of deal. And so I've been more or less following
2:34:38
Speaker 2: that same past since then.
2:34:39
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for all this, because the amount of
2:34:43
Speaker 3: work that's involved and putting together these books and all
2:34:45
Speaker 3: the interviews and all the podcasts you've done. For most
2:34:48
Speaker 3: people to occupy their mind with the kind of information
2:34:52
Speaker 3: that's in yours, it's got to be very troubling, it's
2:34:54
Speaker 3: probably not so much fun, and it's also very important
2:34:59
Speaker 3: for people like me who haven't done that work to
2:35:02
Speaker 3: have access to it to get an understanding of it.
2:35:04
Speaker 2: So thank you, cool, thank you very much for having me.
2:35:06
Speaker 3: Thinks we'll do it again, Scott all right, bye everybody,