Latest / Behind The Village Podcast / The Heart of a Community: Inside Manticore Books | Michael Fredson

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The Heart of a Community: Inside Manticore Books | Michael Fredson · Behind The Village Podcast

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To me, the heart of a community is a bookstore.
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You know, every community that you go to, the
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bookstore is kind of the piece of it. And so
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when we heard about the previous owner who was
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looking to sell, I was like, yeah, there needs
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to be a bookstore. And it's actually why he opened
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the bookstore too. You're listening to the Behind
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the Village podcast. Our guest today is Michael
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Fredson from Manticore Books. What kind of books
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do you like to read? Oh, what kind of books would
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like to read? So fiction wise, I'm always been
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like a fantasy kind of reader, a little bit like
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high fantasy, like Tolkien, Robert Jordan, like
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all the kind of big names, like I'm a sucker
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for punishment in the like, if it's not 15 ,000
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pages of a story, it's not worth reading, you
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know. But I also I love I'm even more of a sucker
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for punishment that I love nonfiction stuff,
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especially like kind of like urban policy stuff
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and stuff that I've gotten involved in, you know,
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with like, in the bia everything like that so
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i've yeah it's usually really like super crazy
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weird stuff or super dry boring stuff so yeah
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i like to go both i don't like the middle it's
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again you got to go to both ends you know yeah
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that's pretty awesome yeah yeah i i i try high
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fantasy I struggle. There's a lot of rules to
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follow. Like, you know, the world is very complicated.
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So complex. There's a suspension, like the very
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first, especially if it's like a 10 book series,
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the first book. No, you have no idea what's going
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to go on. You just have to accept things. A new
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character pops in. You're just like, sure, let's
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pretend I know who that is. I'm going to just
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keep going. Like you have to completely suspend
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all logic and understanding. Yeah, absolutely.
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That's a good tip because that's very much the
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struggle is going, I don't know what's happening.
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Who are these people? Yeah, it's why sometimes
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my wife, when she watches a television show,
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I come in halfway through and she's like, what,
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do you need to know what's going on? I'm like,
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nah, it's fine. I'll figure it out. I'm a fantasy
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reader. This is what we do. This is every Baltimore
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star is this kind of like, I don't know what's
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going on. Okay, let's go. Go in blind, hope for
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the best. Yeah, it works out well. It's a good
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life skill. Perfect. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah,
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yeah. I love it. So why, I guess, tell me a little
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bit as well about how you... Why books? That's
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the question I usually get. Why books? Yeah,
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yeah, exactly. That's exactly where I was going
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to go next. Why books? Yeah. You can be blunt
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with your questions. Don't worry about it. Just
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throw it out there. Why books? Yeah. You know
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what? I love it. I love... I've always been a
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reader, of course, but I've always loved what
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books can do, what books, what literature can
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do. Seriously, there's a book about everything.
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You come in and you say, it's like, I want a
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book about this. I'll find it. There's a book
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about everything because it's how we've learned.
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We've learned through the written word. We've
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learned through books. That's how we've grown.
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And I love the power of that, you know, and I
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love what it can do. And so, you know, it's it's
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a crazy industry. It's, you know, analog has,
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you know, waxed and waned through the years,
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but it's coming back a little bit in some sense.
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But it's just it's more the power of what it
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can do. And and it's it's I don't know, to me,
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the heart of a community is a bookstore. You
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know, every community that you go to, it's the
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bookstores that kind of the piece of it. And
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so when we heard about the previous owner was
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looking to sell, I was like, yeah, like there
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needs to be a bookstore. And and it's actually
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why he opened the bookstore, too, is because
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he opened it after Smith books. You know, like
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they were Smith chapters bought all the Smith
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books. Right. Right. Smith books. When they first
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started, they were actually like downtown stores.
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They weren't mall stores. Chapters, when they
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bought them, turned them into mall stores. But
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Smith Books were like community bookstores and
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a chain of them. And so when they closed down,
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the previous owner was the same thing. And he
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said, he's like, there's got to be a bookstore
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downtown. So we were the same when we heard he
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was looking to close it down. I was like, there's
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got to be a bookstore downtown. So, yeah, it's
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just it's it's yeah. Short, short story. Short
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answer is just, yeah, I just I love what books
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can do for people. Mm hmm. No, I very much. See
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that because from my end as well, like I'm remembering
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your point when you were saying like there's
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books for everything. And really, like I primarily
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read like nonfiction books. Right. But it's super
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interesting to kind of see the different perspectives
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of that people have or the expertise that people
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have that they're going to be like putting it
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all together in one book. And it's something
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that I guess the people that don't. read books.
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I don't know exactly how, but it's the continuity
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of it. Like when I read a book, there's a, there's
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a, you know, beginning, middle and end. But when
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I read a blog post or when I, you know, look
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at social media and stuff like that, it's not,
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I can learn things from there, but I need to
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go keep searching for more information. Right.
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. A book tends
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to be a little more contained. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I like I primarily
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like books. So you mentioned that Manticore was
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had a previous owner. They were looking to sell.
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And that's kind of how you got started. Yeah.
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Right. Yeah. What were you doing before that?
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Oh, a lot of different things. My my my oldest
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son loves to hear my job history of like throughout
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throughout my life. And sometimes when I say
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it's like, oh, I did that job, he'll be like,
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oh, we're at number 23 now. He keeps counting
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his head of what I've done. Yeah, he loves it.
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So, I mean, yeah, I've been kind of all over
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the map. I've always been in customer service,
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a lot of retail, but always in like customer
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service type industries. For the longest time,
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I was at the University of Guelph in the athletics
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department. My next love after books is sports.
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And it's for the same thing. It's that like the
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power of sport and what sport can do to change
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people. Right. And so it's they both, believe
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it or not, mesh in my head anyways. But so working
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at the Athletic Center, I think I was there for
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like 11 years. And so I was there for quite a
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long time. I've I've been a carry out boy at
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like old garden centers. Yeah, I've done quite
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a bit. I even briefly when we first moved to
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Orillia, I worked in a butcher shop because I,
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you know, like. Hey, I can do that for a little
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while. So, you know, I, I, yeah, I've been, I've
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been a little all over the place. It's a, yeah,
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it was, I think it was just before I took over
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the bookstore. I think I was working at future
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shop. Oh yeah. Yeah. Selling TVs. So I went from
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electronics to books. I don't know. Eclectic
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set of skills anyway. Yes. And when was it that
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you took over a Manticore? Oh, I know exactly.
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Uh, because it's the same month. My, my first
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son was born. which I wouldn't recommend to a
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lot of people that you kind of like do that at
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the same time. So yeah, yeah. Not, not the best
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plan, but, but it worked out well. But it was,
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it was October, 2013. 2013. Wow. That's a long
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time. Yeah. I'm trying to, is it 10, 12 years,
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12 years this October. Yeah. Coming up. Yeah.
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On 12th. Yeah. Wow. And how has, how has Manticore
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kind of evolved? Like since you took over and
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like, you know, obviously through the years.
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Yeah, we've grown a lot. We've grown a lot. I've
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changed the store a lot. But I've changed the
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store a lot from my kind of corporate retail
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type background kind of thing, right? So I brought
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in some of those skills and also learned some
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of the skills that don't work in small independent
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stores as well. So yeah, when I first took over
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the store, I used all my merchandising skills
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and I redid the whole store. And everybody was
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kind of like, oh, my God, you have no books.
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What have you like what's happened? And it's
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like, oh, I cleaned it up too much. But it doesn't
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it doesn't it doesn't that sort of merchandising
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doesn't work in a small footprint kind of store
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because it looked empty. You know, and so I was
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like, OK, so I kind of had to learn a little
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bit of that adaptation for a new retail setting.
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Right. So but but we've changed and and and I'm
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a I'm a numbers person. Even though I'm a book
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person and, you know, arts and literary, I'm
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a numbers person. So I've always let the statistics
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and the numbers and customers really lead me
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where I'm going in the bookstore. If a section,
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you know, I look at like the previous owner was
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huge into history. History was his thing. So
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there was this massive history section. But for
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me, my sections are dictated not by what I like,
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but what I'm selling, right? Like what my numbers,
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what my customers want. You know, so it's our
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sections kind of fluctuate up and down. I drive
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my staff a little crazy sometimes because I'm
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constantly moving stuff. When I see a section
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and it's kind of like, OK, we moved it this day
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and I look at the numbers. It's like, oh, it's
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actually gone down. So that's not working in
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this spot. So let's move it over here to this
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spot and try this. And so it's a little bit of
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creativity and merchandising piece mixed with
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numbers and data. So it's but the store's grown
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because of it. You know, it's it's numbers. Numbers
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are everything to me. That's interesting because
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I didn't know, you know, I've never actually
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sat down with, I guess, a bookstore owner and
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asked them like how, like, why do you have the
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books that you have in your store? Right. Like
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I've never actually thought about it. Yeah. Yeah.
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It's yeah. I mean, really, our job is curation.
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Honestly, like it's it's we're we're a different
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type of curation than a library, but it's the
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same thing. It's that we curate the books. I
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mean, I forget where that where this quote comes
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from, but there's more books published in a year
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than you can read in your lifetime. You know,
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and and so it's it's the main thing that we do
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is curating books to fit our little community
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and to fit how we fit into our community. So,
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yeah, it's there's an art element to it, but
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there's also a data element to it as well. Yeah.
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So what what sections are, I guess, currently
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the most popular right now? So. our store's kind
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of roughly broken into like fictions a third
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non -fictions a third and children's are a third
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it's fairly even like we're we're very much a
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general bookstore um a lot of bookstores tend
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to specialize or they tend you know or some stores
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they purposely specialize but some maybe sometimes
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just become whatever um but we're very much a
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general bookstore we we have all all the different
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things um general fiction is the biggest you
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know, of the fiction category. The general fiction
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makes up more than half of it. It's kind of the
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biggest section. Nonfiction, what do we kind
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of look at? What's sort of the big one, I guess?
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Probably history, especially like local history.
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People love the local history. We've got some
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really talented local history writers. But there's
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just a fascination. I mean, there's some crazy
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history stuff that happened in this area. And
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it's like mind blowing to be like all this happened
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in this little area. So it's fascinating for
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a lot of people. And then a lot of tourists and
11:16
cottagers, you know, those are interesting stories
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for them, too. Right. Usually the local history
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books, they're not necessarily like big books.
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They're great for cottage because you can just
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put it down, pick it up whenever you want to
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kind of thing. So, yeah, it's it. But it's history
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is usually the biggest one. Yeah. cool yeah yeah
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local history for sure because anytime we see
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any kind of like little snippets of anything
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not necessarily in a book but you know even photographs
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of you know over the years the area it's so cool
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yeah yeah yeah well i mean you guys are storytellers
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right yeah it's it's what you do with your with
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your magazine and so what you do with your marketing
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thing right is you're you're telling a story
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so it's it's the same thing right it's yeah it's
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there's just there's crazy stuff that happened
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here it's fast it's fascinating yeah And I love
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your your because you talked about as well, the
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children, the children's section that you have
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at Manticore. Like, I love that. It's just such
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a cute place. I love that it's also a little
12:11
bit more removed from the rest of the books.
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So your kids can be on one end of the store and
12:15
you can be quietly perusing. And that's why we
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have a little craft table and a little play table
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with all the toys and everything, too. So, yeah,
12:23
exactly. A lot of people take advantage of that.
12:26
Yeah. Yeah. But it just. It's a natural, it's
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a natural split in a sense too, right? Is that
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it's, you know, I mean, the kids don't really
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want to be more. I mean, when I walk home from
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school from with my kids and there's a parent
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and we talk, I mean, I hear all the time from
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my kids of like, I guess talking boring adult
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talk. Yes, we are, you know? And so it's just,
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it's that natural split is that kids want to
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be with the kids stuff and the fun stuff and
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adults are all in the boring stuff, you know?
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So it, yeah, it works out well. Yeah, no, for
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sure. What does Manticore do differently, I guess,
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from what other people tend to think of a bookstore?
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What is it that sets you guys apart? So as a
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bookstore, one of the things we do maybe that
13:18
not all the other bookstores do is we do a lot
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of selling at ad events. So we go outside of
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the store to sell books. Just last weekend, one
13:28
of my employees went down to an event in Barrie
13:30
because there was an author that was coming and
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she was talking about it was it was an empower
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her conference talking about, you know, different
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stories that women have to tell about stuff.
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And so there was a historical fiction writer
13:40
that that's what her story was about, like women
13:42
in World War Two. And so it's fiction, but there's
13:44
a lot of historical elements to it. So we went
13:47
and she went and sold books of that. So we do
13:49
a lot of that kind of stuff. I've sold books
13:53
that like the Suicide Awareness Conference. First
13:56
Nations literary festival that happens over in
13:58
Rama. So we kind of go outside the community
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in a lot of ways as well for when especially
14:04
when authors kind of come through. So, yeah,
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that's interesting. And, you know, that reminds
14:09
me as well is that you probably. know a lot of
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authors right a lot of people i'm assuming uh
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come to you like wanting to be part of manticore
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in some uh way shape or form right especially
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local authors i'm assuming how does the one get
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to be part of uh you know your book selection
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i guess question um yeah so there's a whole bunch
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of ways that we we get books um Sales reps are
14:40
a big part. In so many industries, the sales
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reps tend to be not helpful in the sense of they're
14:49
pushy salespeople in a sense, or they're pushing
14:51
a certain product or any of that kind of stuff.
14:53
And I'm very much generalizing. There's fantastic
14:55
sales reps out there, of course. But in the book
14:58
industry, it's not like that. They're helping
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us find the books for what we move. You know,
15:06
they want to move books as well, right? The book
15:08
industry has this like very old like legacy thing
15:11
that we can actually send stuff back in a time
15:13
period. So we don't have to necessarily keep
15:15
everything if we're paying enough attention.
15:18
And so it's like basically between like, you
15:21
know, like there's this window that we can send
15:23
stuff back if we haven't sold it. So because
15:26
of that, that changes our relationship with our
15:28
sales reps. you know, that they don't want to
15:31
sell us something that they know we're not going
15:33
to sell because I'm just going to ship it back
15:34
to you anyways. You know, they want to actually
15:37
get the right books for us too. So we have a
15:38
very different relationship with our sales reps
15:40
than a lot of retail would. But so we get a lot
15:46
of information from the sales reps. Sometimes
15:48
we just get information of like, hey, this is
15:50
going to be big. This is the media that these
15:52
people are doing. You really want to have this.
15:55
But then also, yeah, it's like this person lives
15:57
in Toronto and they're going to be doing this
15:59
or this person actually like comes through your
16:01
area. And so you might want to have some of this
16:03
on the shelf and that kind of stuff. Local authors,
16:07
totally different ballgame. I mean, when you're
16:10
a local author, it's all about shameless self
16:12
-promotion ahead about, you know, like just flogging
16:15
it. Just like, OK, I'm going everywhere, telling
16:18
everybody. I mean, I always tell them, like,
16:20
you should have a big shirt saying that it's
16:22
like I wrote a book. And then I have a picture
16:24
on the back. Like it's shameless self -promotion.
16:27
And so they come into us usually. And, you know,
16:31
they kind of say it's like, hey, I'm a local
16:32
author. This is my book. This is how I do it.
16:34
We go through the whole rigmarole of all that.
16:36
And yeah, we put them on the shelf. Yeah, because
16:40
you have a section for local authors as well,
16:42
right? So we have a section of local history,
16:46
which predominantly is local authors. Our local
16:52
authors are also spread out into whatever category
16:54
they're also writing. But what we do try to do
16:56
is we generally will have a table of local authors.
17:01
Big, small, depends on the season. And then a
17:04
couple times a year, we also do like a feature
17:05
window of like, these are all our local authors.
17:07
And isn't it really amazing how much talent we
17:09
have in our community kind of thing. So we don't
17:11
really have like just a shelf of it. We kind
17:14
of just merchandise it that way. But they're
17:16
spread throughout the store. Yeah. One of the
17:18
questions that I had as well is. For people that
17:23
are listening to this that, you know, may not
17:26
be as avid book readers as, for example, you
17:29
know, you and us, why would or how would you
17:33
encourage people or why would you what would
17:36
be the reasons to encourage someone to kind of
17:38
read a book to get into? Yeah, that's great.
17:45
You know, I find a lot of times when people are
17:48
like, I'm not a reader. I kind of have two responses.
17:51
One, somebody's told you that before. It's not
17:55
necessarily that it's maybe not coming from you.
17:59
You've been told that. Consciously, subconsciously,
18:02
whatever, you've been told you're not a reader.
18:03
You've been told you can't read this. You've
18:05
been told that you don't understand it. There's
18:07
a little bit of that history of your schooling
18:10
and where you've come from in that sense. And
18:14
that also ties into sometimes like sometimes
18:15
the material they read in school is just really
18:18
boring. Like, you know, I mean, I remember like
18:21
I remember hating World War one and two history
18:25
when I was in school. And now, I mean, if I'm
18:28
picking up a history book, that's what I'm reading
18:30
because they're fascinating. And I was like,
18:32
where was this book when I was in school? Because
18:35
this is amazing. You know, so it. There's part
18:38
of that as well. You know, you've been told and
18:41
you read the boring stuff. You read the driest
18:44
material you could when you were in school. And
18:47
then the other part is that, again, just kind
18:49
of relating to that, there's a book for everything.
18:51
There's a book you'll love. Everybody has a book
18:53
they love. Maybe you haven't found it yet, but
18:56
that's what you come see me for. Like, come see
18:58
me and my staff. We'll find that book for you
19:00
and we'll get it. And also, like, there's a little
19:03
bit of that piece, like. Just because you don't
19:06
read 50 books a year doesn't mean that's not
19:08
okay. If you read one book a year, congratulations.
19:11
There's no time limit on how long a book should
19:15
take you to read and to enjoy. If you only read
19:18
a chapter a week, congratulations. That's okay.
19:20
That's great. But I think there's a lot of that
19:24
what you've been told and what you think you
19:27
are. It's like, come see me. We'll fix that for
19:30
you. That's true, because what the definition
19:32
of what is the definition of a reader, right?
19:35
Like it's exactly like you, you, we, we, we have
19:38
seen like it's on social media or it's people
19:40
that is like, oh, I read like, like you said,
19:42
50 books, you know, this year. That was my goal
19:44
of reading like this many books. I've seen people
19:46
hit like 300, 400. I know. I know. I know. It's
19:50
crazy. I read less owning a bookstore now, but
19:53
I mean, you know, it's the paperwork gets into
19:55
my time. But yeah, no, but. There is. There's
19:58
a lot of that. And I think that sometimes when
19:59
people say it's like, I'm not a reader, it's
20:01
like, well, but is it because that's what you
20:04
think a reader is? Is the 50 book a year person,
20:07
the 300 book a year person? It's like, no, that's
20:10
a super user. You know, like if you read a book
20:14
slowly, that's OK. Like, just enjoy it, you know.
20:18
And so and I feel that's sort of our job a little
20:20
bit is to find that book that you can enjoy that
20:22
once. that makes you want to finish it. It doesn't
20:25
matter what that time frame is. It's just, let's
20:27
see if we can find that one that you really want
20:29
to finish. And that's one of the things that
20:31
I really enjoy when I go to a bookstore, right,
20:34
is just that is different from, let's say, ordering
20:37
a book online, for example, is that when I'm
20:40
searching for books or stuff like that, You know,
20:44
I need to already know what book I'm going for
20:47
in order to find it online. Right. But what I
20:50
love about going to like, like, let's say Manticore
20:52
is that I can go in and be like, I love this
20:54
book. I have no idea what else I should read.
20:57
Right. And like somebody there has the knowledge
21:00
or has the, you know, they've read these books
21:02
that they can be like, oh, you know what? Like,
21:04
this is what you're going to like that if you,
21:06
you know, whatever this this kind of. I don't
21:09
know, it just feels more connected in that in
21:11
that way, that being able to find something that
21:14
I'm going to love, right, going back to that,
21:16
like a book that I'm going to love, because somebody
21:18
has read it already. It's not just a random,
21:21
you know, algorithm saying, you know, this is
21:24
also in the fiction genre, right? Yeah, exactly.
21:27
Right. No, I mean, we sort of the goal, purpose,
21:32
whatever you want to put for it, like for my
21:33
staff, and for me is that it's like, we, we obviously
21:36
can't read every book that's on our shelf. We
21:39
can't say that we've read everything or that,
21:41
but our goal is that we can talk about everything.
21:44
We know everything that's on our shelf and we
21:46
know how it fits in the world of books. So that
21:50
when you come in, oh, I just finished this book.
21:53
You know what I mean? We have people come in
21:54
and they're like, you know, I'm not much of a
21:55
reader. I'm like, okay, so what's the last thing
21:58
you read that you hated? Oh, I hated that one.
22:00
Perfect. What's the last thing you read that
22:01
you kind of enjoyed? Oh, I liked this one. Okay,
22:03
perfect. Even it's like, what kind of movie do
22:06
you like? We can kind of like start to slot that
22:08
in too, right? So it's all about how that all
22:10
fits. And so that's our job, not to read every
22:14
book, but to know everything that we kind of
22:16
have and how it all kind of fits together. And
22:19
we have lots of people too with, I mean, there's
22:21
been a huge change over the years too of like
22:23
graphic novels and their acceptability as books
22:27
or whatever. And we still have, you know, like...
22:30
it's typically like grandparents that kind of
22:32
come in and they're like, well, you know, I'm
22:34
going to get a book for my grandchild. And they
22:36
only read those like comic book type things.
22:38
It's like, that's great. Come on. Like we'll,
22:40
we'll get the next one that they'll love, you
22:41
know? And, and yeah, so it's a, but it, it's,
22:44
it's great. It's, it's, it's been, there's a
22:47
resurgence in reading, but part of that is the
22:49
acceptance of all the different types of reading,
22:51
you know? And, and I remember when I was growing
22:54
up it's funny, but when I was in school, English
22:58
was my worst subject. You know, I know I want
23:01
a bookstore, but English. I have a science degree.
23:06
I don't know how that fits in the world of books
23:08
either. But, you know, anyways, and I had an
23:11
English teacher at one point when I was struggling
23:13
with some of the things in English. I had an
23:16
English teacher that it was like, OK, well, you
23:18
need to read more. And I was like, that's almost
23:21
impossible for me. I read all the time and I
23:23
was like, I'm I can skip sleep, I guess, if I
23:26
need to read more. But, you know, what's the
23:27
problem here? And he was like. OK, well, what
23:29
do you read? And I was like, oh, like Tolkien's
23:31
one of my favorites. He was like, oh, fantasy.
23:33
That's all garbage. You know, you have to you
23:36
have to read this or you have to read this. And
23:38
it's like, oh, OK. But that's sort of how it's
23:42
sometimes perceived of like, oh, I don't read.
23:46
Are there words on a page? Is there a progression
23:49
of story? Is that, you know, as you said, is
23:51
there a beginning, a middle and an end? That's
23:53
a book like, yeah, it's a pretty loose definition.
23:56
So, you know, it's, it all kind of ties in, ties
23:59
in together with all that. Yeah. Absolutely.
24:02
I remember, uh, when I was, you know, growing
24:05
up, like I, I actually, what got me into reading
24:10
was my English, um, uh, my English class, because
24:15
we used to read a lot of stuff that is, like
24:17
you said, it's kind of, it's kind of boring.
24:19
Uh, I had to read Shakespeare, didn't understand,
24:21
you know, anything about it. It's like, it's
24:23
just, but. There was one book that I loved reading
24:28
and that was 1984. That book just like blew my
24:33
mind. And after that, I wanted, like, I wanted
24:36
to find like all of these like dystopian, like,
24:39
you know, type of, types of books. And that's
24:43
kind of what got me into because I was so excited
24:45
to kind of, you know, so you never, you never
24:48
really know, right? How you get into things.
24:52
But yeah, no, it's really, it's really interesting
24:53
how. I don't know how people get into. I like
25:00
the connection that people have with each other
25:03
when it comes to books and reading and the idea
25:05
of, you know, referral in that. I forget what
25:08
the word is, but, you know, mentioning books
25:10
that you're reading or someone will say, oh,
25:12
I've just finished this book. You should try
25:13
or you should read it or, you know, and that
25:15
kind of connection you would have with people
25:16
or some of the genres I read. People be like,
25:20
oh, I want to get into that genre of book. I'm
25:22
like, OK. try like this one here's like an intro
25:25
to this genre you know yeah that you that happens
25:30
all the time in the store like just randomly
25:32
people are there and sometimes you see we see
25:34
it all the time if somebody's looking at a book
25:36
and kind of flipping through it and somebody
25:38
that they don't know just kind of walks up and
25:40
they're like that was really good I really like
25:42
that book it was wonderful you'll love it you
25:45
know and it happens all the time and a lot of
25:47
times then they just kind of start talking and
25:50
it's like did you read this one oh yes that one
25:51
was fantastic oh but that one that one was awful
25:54
you know and so like there's the whole thing
25:56
that just happens there right and and yeah we
25:58
see it all the time it's it's nice it's special
26:01
it's it's it's what makes a bookstore not just
26:04
a retail store you know like it's it's it's pretty
26:07
cool yeah yeah there's this like little ecosystem
26:10
yeah exactly and uh You were talking about how
26:15
there's a little bit of a resurgence happening
26:17
now because it's been kind of going back and
26:20
forth in terms of analog reading, I guess. Why
26:24
do you think that is? What's the trend? Why is
26:27
it happening? In general, there's a resurgence
26:31
in analog stuff in almost every category of stuff,
26:36
right? Books have come back since the 90s and
26:40
2000s especially. Um, no, maybe a little bit
26:43
later. Sorry. I guess it's like the, the two
26:45
thousands, the early two thousands. Um, and,
26:47
uh, but like record stores are back, you know,
26:50
journaling is a thing again, you know, it's all
26:53
this like handwritten physical object kind of
26:56
thing. I think we're seeing the younger demographic
26:59
is coming back to a little bit. Partly, you know,
27:02
I mean, some, some of the stuff they say, and
27:04
partly, you know, what you, what you hear too,
27:05
is that it's like, you know, like it's, it's
27:07
that idea of like, this is my shelf. This is,
27:10
this is who I am. You know, this is what I read.
27:13
This is what I listen to. And you can see that.
27:15
And you're putting that piece of you on display
27:17
for your friends and for the world to see. You
27:21
know, it's not the same as like, oh, this is
27:23
my Goodreads list that I've read this year. You
27:26
know, it's a different feel, you know. And so
27:30
I think that's part of it. I think subconsciously
27:33
there's also the drive to like just get off the
27:36
screen. You know, we're all so attached to screens.
27:41
Without realizing it, I think a lot of people,
27:43
it's like that kind of just slow down a little
27:45
bit. Pick up a book. You put on a record. You
27:48
know, you put on a record and that's it. You
27:50
just listen to it. You don't have to keep scrolling
27:52
and, you know, playlists and shuffle and all
27:54
that. And a book's the same. You don't have to
27:56
worry about, is my device charged? Do I have
27:58
this? Is the Wi -Fi? You know, all this kind
28:00
of stuff. It's like, you just pick up the book
28:01
and you pause it and you put it down and you
28:04
maybe lean back and chill for a bit and then
28:06
you pick it back up again. And, you know, like
28:07
there's a, there's just, everything just slows
28:10
down a bit. When you're, when you're on an analog
28:12
thing and, and, and journaling is the same writing
28:14
the same, there's a feel to it. There's a slow
28:17
down aspect to, to even just handwriting, you
28:21
know? And, and so I think people, there's a,
28:24
there's a portion of people that are doing it
28:25
purposely. They know they want to, and there's
28:28
a portion of people that are doing it without
28:29
realizing that that's what they're doing. They're
28:31
just doing it because they enjoy it without realizing
28:33
that it's actually, that's why they're enjoying
28:35
it kind of thing. Right. So, yeah. That's why
28:38
I agree with you. That's why I love analog stuff
28:41
in general and books in general, just because
28:43
it allows me to slow down. And I think that is
28:47
such an important thing that a lot of people
28:49
don't realize that we need more. I hear people
28:53
that are reading or watching books. reading books
29:00
whatever uh you know through like their while
29:02
they're exercising while they're doing other
29:04
like other other things which is great there's
29:06
nothing wrong with that but for me i want to
29:09
like you know the world is so fast -paced right
29:13
i like i don't want to compound and do like five
29:16
things at the same time that's not my goal that's
29:19
not what i want to do i want to be able to actually
29:22
enjoy what i'm doing in front of me right and
29:24
that is what I like about analog that's why I
29:28
love having like the print version of the magazine
29:29
is because I can actually open it up and it puts
29:33
me in this world like it like you know I'm with
29:36
this and myself for however many you know however
29:40
long I want to I want to have it I want to be
29:42
part of that yeah you're one of those more methodical
29:44
readers you'll read like a little paragraph and
29:47
then you'll think about it I know I put it I
29:49
put it down I think about it well I spend like
29:51
half an hour just kind of ruminating and then
29:53
I pick up and read the other paragraph Love it.
29:56
But I think it's like it's a different level
29:59
of technology, but I think it's why like movie
30:00
theaters still exist, you know, because it's
30:03
the exact same concept that it's like when I'm
30:05
going to a movie theater with my kids and I'm
30:07
going to watch the movie, that's all I'm doing.
30:10
I'm in the movie theater watching the movie.
30:12
I'm not on my phone. I'm not thinking about something
30:14
else. I'm not worrying about the dog. I'm not
30:16
like there's I'm at the movie theater and that's
30:19
what I'm doing, you know, and so it's just there.
30:22
There's these types of pieces that, I mean, you
30:24
know, when streaming happened, everyone thought
30:25
the movie theater was going to die. And it's
30:27
like these certain things just they haven't because
30:30
we just we like being immersed in that. Right.
30:34
And yeah, but books are always going to be around.
30:36
Like they change, the formats change. It's gone
30:39
up and down and everything. But we're always
30:41
going to be around. We're always going to be
30:42
here. Yeah, because there's so much technology
30:45
that has come and gone. And books, like you said,
30:48
there is those tablet readers that you can buy.
30:52
There's the audiobooks. There is all sorts of
30:55
technology now to kind of consume the same type
30:57
of content. And they all fill their niche. Audiobooks,
31:02
if you're a commuter, audiobooks are the best.
31:05
Put one on your phone and plug it into your car
31:08
and drive with it. That's fantastic. the the
31:11
e -readers they're phenomenal for i'm gonna go
31:13
on a trip and i'm not gonna take especially for
31:15
the people that as you were mentioned like people
31:17
that read like 200 books a year you know they're
31:19
gonna they're gonna go on vacation for a week
31:21
and read like eight books bring a stack here
31:23
like you can't have a stack of eight books when
31:25
you go right so it just kind of it that's what
31:27
that allows and also i even think of some things
31:30
of like um people that have maybe vision problems
31:33
right the e -readers are phenomenal you can make
31:35
the font bigger and so There's an accessibility
31:37
portion to new technology that's been around
31:40
too, but physical books, yeah, we're never going
31:43
to die. We're going to change. We're going to
31:45
shrink and grow, but we're never going to go
31:47
away. I think it's important too, like the amount
31:50
of creativity on the writing side to create.
31:53
These books, not just fiction, but nonfiction
31:57
as well as to do all the research and bring all
32:00
this information together so that people can
32:02
enjoy is huge. That will always be a thing. That's
32:08
a funny one. I've done some different talks at
32:13
service clubs and different things. Same thing,
32:16
it's kind of like, what's a bookstore like? What
32:18
do you do? People are just fascinated by it in
32:20
a way, right? And so one of the things I usually
32:23
will touch on is the economics of books, but
32:27
also the economics of what you're saying is creativity.
32:29
Like what what does that look like for the creative
32:33
person? Right. And you break it down and it's
32:36
like, you know, like 40, 40 bucks, 45 bucks for
32:38
a hardcover new book. It's expensive. Like it's
32:42
45 bucks. That's a fair amount of money. I mean,
32:44
if you're a minimum wage worker, that's what
32:45
almost three hours of work. Right. Like it's
32:47
it's money. It's expensive. But. the economics
32:52
of the industry is that it's like, you know,
32:53
maybe 10, if you're lucky, 10 % goes to the author.
32:57
So it means that it's like, you know, and, and,
32:59
you know, we take a portion, the publisher takes
33:02
a portion, the printer takes a portion, the graphic
33:04
designer, the like, you know, the paper company,
33:07
like there's all these people involved in this,
33:08
this process. And, and, but the, the author,
33:12
the one that the only reason why this book exists
33:14
is because of that person only makes, you know,
33:17
between five and 10%. So they're making that
33:20
$45 book you just bought. They made $4 .50. How
33:24
many books do you have to sell to be a full -time
33:26
author? How many books do they need to sell in
33:29
order to give you the next one? So there's all
33:32
that kind of economics of scale of that, that
33:34
it's like, yeah, $45 is not cheap. But what does
33:40
it cost for that person to give you that and
33:42
for you to allow them to give you the next one?
33:46
Yeah. I never thought about that, but that, you
33:48
know, that makes that makes a lot of sense. And
33:50
it's just even more astounding. You know, the
33:52
people I've always I've always said I wanted
33:53
to read a book, but I wanted to write a book.
33:57
But it's I like to I like to know the context
34:00
of. you know, how books are, were created in
34:04
a sense. I love the, I love when I have the context
34:06
of like, oh, this book took this person like
34:08
10 years or like five years. It like, it took
34:11
them all this blood, sweat and tears. And then
34:13
you realize like, you know, coming through that
34:15
lens of economics is like, man, like being an
34:17
author is a hard, it's a hard job. Like it's,
34:20
you know, it's a, it's a lot of work to, to be
34:23
able to, you know, get somewhere. There, there's
34:26
pretty much no full -time authors in Canada.
34:30
Wow. I would say, I mean, I'm not even going
34:34
to make up a statistic because, what, 90 % of
34:36
statistics are made up on the spot, right? But
34:40
their honesty is very few that their main source
34:44
of income is through their book sales. You've
34:46
got some like Louise Penny and a couple, but
34:48
there's very, very few. Almost everybody, it's
34:52
their side hustle. They have a job and then they
34:56
write to just put it out there. yeah because
35:00
it's a passion it's like a yeah yeah yeah i wanted
35:03
to ask about um kind of going back to the idea
35:06
of people sometimes struggling to get into to
35:09
reading a little bit what are your thoughts on
35:11
let's say someone picks up a book they're hoping
35:13
they're gonna like it they're really not enjoying
35:15
it you're getting you know it's tedious and i
35:18
know some people feel a struggle to they feel
35:21
like they have to finish the book and there's
35:23
the other camp it's like nah like don't force
35:26
yourself to kind of to go through what where
35:28
do you yeah well you know again the the volume
35:32
of books that are published life is too short
35:34
to read a bad book like you know i i get it i
35:38
i like the completionists i i understand i respect
35:40
it you know that we have a bookmark that says
35:43
like bookmarks are for quitters you know i love
35:45
that attitude you know it's great and it's the
35:48
same thing it's like no i'm gonna finish this
35:49
book love it but you know what at the end of
35:52
the day like honestly it's like life's too short
35:55
for a bad book there's so many good books out
35:57
there and there's so many books out there for
35:59
for you as you as the individual of what you
36:02
can what you can find don't like just just stop
36:06
come back and i'll find you a better one like
36:08
it's many i'll worry that that is nice though
36:16
because sometimes i I feel that way sometimes,
36:18
too, where it's like, oh, I bought this book.
36:20
I feel like I'm obligated to finish it, but I'm
36:22
just not connecting with it the way I thought
36:24
I was. And so taking that pressure off, I think,
36:27
as well for people that maybe struggle to connect
36:29
with written content sometimes just be like,
36:32
OK, it's OK to just call it. It's OK to just.
36:35
Yeah, there's one. There's some books you read,
36:37
you pick up, you know, like everybody in this
36:39
book is an awful person. I don't want to read
36:42
about these people. They're terrible. It's like,
36:44
yeah, then don't like put it away. You know,
36:46
it's OK. Yeah. What are your plans with Manticore?
36:52
What is it that you're looking, what does the
36:54
future look like for Manticore? I have grand
36:58
plans in many different ways. You know, my biggest
37:03
goal, my biggest dream, my biggest bankrupting
37:07
idea is to get upstairs in our building. So currently
37:11
we're just on the second floor and I really want
37:13
to like expand and like have a whole thing upstairs.
37:17
Yeah, it's a big investment, big job. So we'll
37:23
see. We'll get there. As we were just talking
37:26
about economics of the book industry, it's not
37:28
the easiest way to financial success. So, you
37:31
know, it's a plan. But yeah, I have that in the
37:36
shorter term. I'm hoping to do something kind
37:39
of like out back of our store. I don't know if
37:41
you kind of can picture the back of our store,
37:43
but we've got kind of like we're off the parking
37:45
lot, like behind Mariposa there. And we've got
37:48
this kind of big, big space. And I kind of want
37:51
to create that into like a patio outdoor event
37:54
type space to use for all the different things
37:59
that happen around the city and to use for author
38:01
events and for, you know, things that we can
38:04
do outside as sort of this event space that would
38:06
be maybe a little bit different, maybe a little
38:08
bit, you know, like something kind of unique
38:09
and cool kind of in our downtown. So that's sort
38:12
of my initial shorter term one. still probably
38:16
five years but you know that's sort of where
38:18
i'm looking for but yeah that's kind of the the
38:20
main two two big ones um other than that yeah
38:26
it's just kind of it's a little bit we just kind
38:27
of chug along we just kind of keep you know like
38:29
i guess i do fine -tuning every quarter i kind
38:32
of look at different things and move stuff around
38:33
and find different niches to fit in and and uh
38:37
you know find different like ways to get kind
38:39
of like schools more like get involved more with
38:41
schools and that kind of piece and And so it's
38:44
kind of, you know, I'm also looking at different
38:46
things to like maybe integrate more in our community
38:49
a little bit. I'm not sure exactly how, but like
38:52
different things like that as well to try and
38:54
see like how to connect a little bit more with
38:56
people and create more of a little bit more of
38:58
a community as well, too. Being a retail star.
39:03
Awesome. Yeah, I think it'd be cool to have like,
39:05
you know, a huge bookstore with multiple. Yeah,
39:09
that sounds cool. I know. I know. Somebody drew
39:12
a picture for me. I was like, that looks awesome.
39:14
Probably not going to happen, but that looks
39:16
awesome. Let me paint. It can happen. We'll get
39:22
there. I got time. Hell yeah. And, you know,
39:27
I know Manticore usually does a lot of like or
39:31
hosts like does a lot of like events or partners
39:34
with people and does a lot of things around the
39:35
community. Your guys are part of the downtown
39:37
BIA kind of thing as well. Right. I was just
39:40
going to ask, are there any upcoming projects
39:42
or any collaborations, you know, that you're
39:46
excited about that you're that you know that
39:48
people should know? You know, since post -COVID,
39:51
we never got back into like a lot of event type
39:54
things. more of like what you just said of like
39:57
more collaborating with with people that are
39:59
already hosting events um and and like st paul's
40:02
and like when they have authors and everything
40:04
through um partly just because when they want
40:06
to host an event it's always kind of i'm like
40:08
let them know that there's a local bookstore
40:10
that can come and sell their books because again
40:12
as an author it's like that's that's the thing
40:14
you want to do is get your books out there right
40:15
so yeah um you know a lot of a lot of people
40:18
are a lot of the authors are like you know like
40:20
they're professional um not talkers. There's
40:23
a better word for that, but I can't think of
40:24
what it is right now, but like they do a lot
40:27
of talks and like, you know, like seminars and
40:28
stuff like that. So when they come through, it's
40:31
like, let me know. And then I can come sell.
40:32
So we do a lot of those kinds of events in store.
40:35
I haven't really, I haven't really had a lot
40:37
of time and things to figure out of like how
40:42
to host events and how to do that kind of stuff.
40:44
We used to do some book launches. We used to
40:47
do some kind of like author talks and stuff and
40:49
they were okay -ish. But they never really were
40:52
big. And our business changed a lot post -COVID.
40:57
We grew, I mean, during the initial part of COVID,
41:00
of course, everyone was just like, it was terrible.
41:02
But then we grew a lot because I think people
41:04
realized that we were here. And people realized
41:07
our online presence became much more pronounced
41:10
because everybody was online in a sense, right?
41:12
And then they also realized that, you know, we
41:15
weren't this little mom and pop bookstore. We're
41:17
a real bookstore. And we can order anything.
41:21
We can bring anything in like where we function
41:23
just like any other bookstore that you would
41:25
think of. And so we grew. And because of that,
41:29
the footprint of our store has grown as well.
41:33
And so because of that, I don't have a lot of
41:35
space for events. I don't really have the setup
41:38
for this is where I host my events. And I haven't
41:42
figured it out yet. I haven't figured out how
41:45
to kind of do that yet. hosting events and hosting
41:48
book launches and stuff like that. So yeah, we
41:52
tend to be more that we're working with somebody
41:54
else and we're working with somebody else that's
41:55
doing an event somewhere. But yeah, I need to
41:59
figure that out. I need to, because we get that
42:01
asked a lot and it's part of a little bit of
42:03
that community building piece that it's like
42:04
we need to build a little bit more of that community.
42:09
So stay tuned. Does that count? Yeah. Absolutely.
42:14
Where can people find Manticore? I know you have
42:20
a website. It's for the people that are listening,
42:23
right? Like what's your website? What's your
42:25
social media? Where can people find you? Where
42:26
can people buy books? There you go. So we're
42:28
right in the heart of downtown Orillia, 103 Mississauga
42:31
Street. We're right beside Mariposa Market, which
42:35
everybody knows where Mariposa Market is. So
42:36
we're right beside them, right? People don't
42:39
even out of town. It's like, do you know where
42:40
Mariposa market is? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well
42:42
we're right beside them. So, um, our, our website,
42:44
manticorebooks .ca. Um, and kind of, as I mentioned
42:47
quickly, it's like we are the, our website is
42:50
functioning that it doesn't just offer books
42:52
that are in the store. It's, it's everything
42:54
like every book that is available to order out
42:57
there is on our website and you can order it
42:59
through our website kind of thing. Um, socials,
43:02
uh, we're actually trying to improve our little
43:03
social media and like how we do stuff. And we're
43:05
trying to post more often. And then. tell funny
43:07
things and figure all that out, which is not
43:10
my natural wheelhouse. So we're getting there.
43:14
I think we're Instagram. We're just Manticore
43:16
Books. And Facebook, we're just Manticore Books
43:19
as well. So it's a unique name. There's no other
43:23
Manticore Books out there. That's true. Why is
43:26
it called Manticore? Yeah. The gentleman that
43:29
opened the store, he opened it the year that
43:31
Robertson Davies passed away. He was a famous
43:34
Canadian author. And he... He kind of, so he
43:38
wanted to name the store after some of like a
43:41
Robertson Davies book. So he kind of like looked
43:44
at all the different ones. And there was one
43:45
that was like, one of the books is called The
43:47
Fifth Business. But he figured that if he named
43:49
his store The Fifth Business, everybody would
43:50
say, what were you running for? He would get
43:52
sick of that joke. Which I think that was, I
43:55
think that was a smart choice. Yeah. And then
43:58
the other one was like World, I think it's, I
44:01
forget the exact title, but it's like World of
44:03
Wonders. And he's like. it's cool, but it also,
44:06
again, would just be misleading of like what
44:09
people think of the store. Right. So he settled
44:12
on the, like from the book, the Manticore. And,
44:15
and I was just like, when we took it over, I
44:17
was like, I love that name. Manticore books.
44:18
It's a cool name. It's a great name. Yeah. It's
44:21
really catchy. Yeah. I like it. I love it. So
44:23
yeah. So with that, that kind of answers all
44:26
of my questions. Do you have any other questions?
44:28
None off the top of my head. Is there anything
44:32
that we might have missed that you wanted to
44:34
talk about, perhaps? Well, like I said, I can
44:36
talk forever about this. I've been doing this
44:38
for 12 years. I got all kinds of stories about
44:40
books and the world of retail books. But no,
44:44
no, it was great. It's a pleasure to be here.
44:46
That's fantastic. And yeah, if you ever have
44:49
any more you want to go into, let me know. Yeah,
44:51
absolutely. Well, thank you very much, Michael.
44:53
And yeah, yeah. And we'll hopefully bring you
44:57
on for another one. Thank you for listening to
45:00
the entire episode. All the links and info you
45:02
heard in this conversation will be featured in
45:04
the show notes on our website, villagermagazine
45:06
.ca slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
45:10
consider subscribing to our channels like YouTube,
45:12
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45:17
I'll see you next time.