Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Crypto Point-of-Sale Terminal | Lunu INTERVIEW

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Crypto Point-of-Sale Terminal | Lunu INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

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Today we're going to be diving into crypto payments and some of the trems that
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are starting to drive the market. If you guys are interested in understanding how
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crypto may start to change the face of retail, make sure and stay tuned
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for this one. It's going to be a good one. My name is
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Paul Barren. Welcome back into tech Path. Today. We're going to be
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doing a sponsor piece that I think you guys might like, and mainly what
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we're looking at is crypto payments and our sponsor today is Lunu. They are
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a new payments terminal that is out there. We're going to leave a special
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discount for you guys, So if you're running a business or you're doing anything
0:37
in the commerce side of things, you can actually use the link down below
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and you'll be able to get fifty percent off for your first six months.
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So if you're using crypto payments, there's those transaction fees, those are all
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going to be able to get a discount, so just use our link down
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below. And one of the things that you really have to look at when
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you think about crypto payments in general is really the trends going. So today
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we're going to be diving into all that good stuff, and I think this
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will be a good one for you today. Joining me is Vadim Grigorian,
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who is a partner and also the chief marketing officer over at Lunu. Great
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to have you, hi, Paul. It's absolutely fantastic to be with your
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program with such go as your stef so Vadim. I want to get into
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a couple of things. First. We had a chance to kind of get
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a little bit more of an insight around Lunu, mainly for payment trends,
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because this is something we track pretty heavily in terms of both the retail but
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also in terms of adoption, because this is one of the things I think
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when it comes to crypto payments. If we don't see adoption both at the
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retailer level and also at the consumer level, you know we're not going to
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necessarily see that kind of growth. There has been some demographics. I'll show
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some of those in a second, but I want to get your opinion first
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for our audience to kind of really understand what Lunu and the device that you
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guys have created does for a retailer. This one to get into it,
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well, I think this is a great philosophical question, Paul, And that's
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why we say that Lunu is actually at the forefront of payment revolution. And
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I think that all your people in the audience, they all kind of already
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understand the benefits of digital currencies, right, And in general, we live
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in the digital world. I mean, listen, you see it in Miami,
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I see it in Paris, and you know, we talk over the
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Internet and all of that, and I think that the future is definitely with
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digital currencies, right. But I think that what really would bring the realization
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of that dream of connectivity, of that very easy to use digital currencies is
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actually when these crypto cryptocurrencies will be used as means of payment. And that's
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exactly what Solutions is doing, right. We are bridging the world of crypto
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and the kind of reality the real world of retailers. And so what we
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provide is very easy, transparent, kind of very use a friendly way of
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using crypto in retail, both online and offline. And fundamentally, this solution
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like this is going to bring not only the whole benefit for Luno, but
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I think that move the whole frontier of using crypto in real life. Well,
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we're finding definite trends that are starting to kind of transact. If you
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look at just some of the days that people have been talking about. One
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of the things, of course, when you think about just retailers in general,
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they're talking about whether it's a bank provided wallet or possibly some other retailer
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provided wallet. And this is something that we're continuing to see right here,
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which is store loyalty. So payments are starting to integrate a lot more into
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loyalty programs. And then I looked at some crypto payment trajectories here. I
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was surprised at this in terms of the payments worldwide. So this starts to
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really ramp up where we are right now twenty twenty three versus what we'll see
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in twenty twenty five. Could we see, especially if we start to see
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these stable coin regulations come into play, a lot more opportunity for crypto payments.
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Now you're in Europe, MIKA is getting ready to go into force where
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you'll have a stable coin regulation. Most likely we'll see a lot more retailers
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starting to inject crypto payments in there. Do you feel like that is going
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to be one of the critical factors retail payment adoption for crypto is being able
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to just transact in USDT or U SDC. I think this is one of
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the factors. One of the if you wish difficulty is what we observe in
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the market is that actually the retailers are a little bit behind the regular customers,
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and they, to be honest, they even don't know some of these
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trends. They don't have a time to look at these figures. And you
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know, believe me, we deal with some of the biggest companies in the
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world, and you know, when we talk to innovation directors, when we
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talk to the marketing directors or sales directors, they get surprised about even the
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penetration level of crypto. You know, for example, one of the figures
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that they get completely bewildered is the amount of crypto vollets that actually exist in
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the world. You know, today we talk about more than six hundred million
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wallets and wallet holders, and probably when the program will be out, it
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will be seven hundred million or one billion very soon. You know, figures
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that we wouldn't have imagined some time ago. So I think that the sheer
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presence of crypto holders and their desire to use the scripto as a means of
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payment is a driver or for retailers, and in fact they have been.
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I mean, you have shown the research by McKenzie, but we have seen
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also some other research that actually shows that customers are ready to change even a
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retailer or a brand, if this particular brand provides the opportunity to pay in
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crypto. So I think the question of loyalty is also a double sword,
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you know, is that yes, customers, of course they have loyalty to
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Brian's, but I think that increasingly they put the pressure on retailers to start
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accepting crypto. And I have to say that we are regularly present at great
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exhibitions such as Parents, Blockchain Week or NFTY Parents, and one thing that
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we noticed with absolute clarity is that if several years ago, when you talk
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even to big companies such as Image or you know, big luxury retailers,
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they would be very cautious, very you know, let us see how it
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goes, et cetera, et cetera. You look at the NFTY Parents this
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year, the head of Digital I'm not mistaken, she was mentioning the fact
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that the question is already decided and it's only you know how they do with
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whom they do, et cetera. So I think that this mental block,
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this barrier for retailers to pass into that direction. I think it is done,
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and it is I think for the companies like Lunu to push that frontier
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forward. Yeah, so, and you're right. I mean I was looking
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at just some of the content that was at Paris Blockchain Week. I saw
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you guys on a panel, but also looked at just the amount of retailers
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that were present there this year, much more than even last year. So
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I would agree with you. It seems to be that there is an adoption
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cycle that has kind of broken through. Do you feel that as being driven
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by consumers or do you think it's just that we're seeing maybe a younger demographic
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in management positions that understand what's happening right now in blockchain. What are your
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thoughts on that. I think it's both. I think it's it's both in
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two ways. But I really believe that the fundamental pressure is coming from from
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consumers, from regular customers. And you can imagine we had, you know,
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the beauty of these exhibitions is that you encounter like real crypto people,
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and we had people coming and hugging me saying, wow, we we can
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we can now pay in you know, off white for example, can we
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pay through the system in bitcoin in ethereum Yes? Wow, hugging and and
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I think this is uh, this is really really positive signs that we see.
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And I mean, let's let's let's be honest. We work with some
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of the most desired brands in the world. You know, I mentioned we
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work with Palm Angels, will work with the likes of forfet you know,
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uh, the whole bunch of I see m B and f ansa NB and
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Dead yeah, Corbe, Yeah, these are these are high end retailers.
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Again, you know, when we start to see it, what do you
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think it's going to take. Because I feel like you're probably going to see
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a lot of the fashion brands move this way because there's a demographic that also
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aligns. But what about general retail. Do you think we're very far away
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of maybe seeing some integrations in with things like Spot or you know, you
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know, some of the e commerce platforms, but also into some of the
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regular retail you know players there in Europe. What are your thoughts. I
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think it's gonna come. I think partly, uh, partly the fact that
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it's a very nowadays, very regulated space, much more than it was five
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in three years ago. You mentioned Meka. You know, we are in
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the vantguard of Mecca right of work and we hope by the end of the
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year it will be absolutely done. All of the you know, big kind
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of crypto exchanges, they now have all kinds of financial licenses. It's basically,
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at least in Europe, but also in the UK and to some extent
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in the US. All of that is treated absolutely the same way as banks,
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as other financial institutions. So all of that kind of fear that of
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you know, where where it lies in terms of you know, is it
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legal is it not? You know, people have again because of the lack
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of knowledge, some of the retailers still have these questions. But it's already
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solved by governments. I mean, in Switzerland you can pay your taxes in
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crypto, and as far as I know, your mayor the place where Miami
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in Miami, he's getting I think part of his salary in crypto something like
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this. So I think that it's it's just we need a little bit of
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time, and of course the solution is already there, you know. That's
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the good thing. That's a good thing. Yeah, when you okay.
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So for the retail side of it, this is something that retailers are facing,
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you know, every day, and that is their merchant fees. You
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know, I've got whether I'm using Visa, MasterCard, American Express, et
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cetera. I've got a set amount of fees that are going to be there
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on those kind of transactions. Explain to me how that works with the Lunu
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terminal With a retailer, Now, what are my fees? How do I
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engage with your company? If I'm saying, hey, I have a you
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know, I have a restaurant, a fashion retailer, whatever it might be,
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and I'm ready to take crypto via Luna, how does that work?
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So of course, the he's really would depend on where geography the retailer is.
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It would depend also on the risk of the retailer, because there are
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some you know, high risk retailers versus lower risk retailers. Of course,
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the restaurant and fashion boutique and things like this would be you know, on
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the regular side. So but what I can say is that we are charging
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absolutely kind of comparable fees and I would say even lower than the classic payment
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methods such as Visa Master, American Express or you know, other ways of
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payment. So so it's on the lower side of these traditional messes, so
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please don't be afraid of kind of crazy, crazy fees and all of that.
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So it's the times when somebody would would get a bit of cash from
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a crypto machine on the street and would lose like twenty percent of that.
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Yeah, that's over long time ago. That's over absolutely, And then the
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beauties that the end customer pays absolutely nothing. There is zero fee imposed end
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customer. What about Okay, So let's talk a little bit about mobile and
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wallets in general, because there's going to be some integrations here. The likelihood
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is we're going to see a lot more mobile payment, whether that's an app,
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whether that's a you know, a hybrid app, words or the smart
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apps where they kind of talk to each other, which could maybe talk to
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a crypto mobile wallet. What does that look like for you guys in terms
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of those potential technological advances for Lunu, Well, I think that our as
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far as the you know, payment in kind of offline retail is concerned,
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I think that we created not only the most beautiful anesthetically pleasing device, but
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also technologically advanced because it is an Android based device and it allows basically an
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acceptance of any kind of qure code and NFC based payments. So in that
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sense we believe that the payment revolution partly would go into that direction, and
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to some extent cards would be maybe not tomorrow, but the day after tomorrow
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they would be eliminated. And our device is capable of handling all kinds of
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payment like this, so in a sense we are already prepared for the future
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of payment and the future of money. And of course today it is so
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easy to use it for crypto payment. So currently a week tailor needs to
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have this device in parallel to his or her classic card device, and the
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minute, basically the customer says, oh, I would like to use the
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uh you know to pay in crypto. Then a shop assistant takes this device
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and you know, just within the seconds, the payment is done more or
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less in the same way as it's done with the classic card payments. How
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did okay? So I have a couple of questions here. This obviously works
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also for platforms like a shop of Fire or Woo Commerce. The integration side
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of that, for someone that has an online e commerce tool. If I'm
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in the EU, I'm in France, or maybe in the UK or Germany,
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what is the option here for me to if I have an online store,
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be able to take payments now if I'm using your service. So,
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Paul, first of all, you know, one of the things that really
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differentiates Luna is our user friendly approach. And this is true for B two
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B or to be two see applications. So basically everything is super seamless.
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So if for example, your business called Barren Networks has uses Shopify for example,
17:23
then it's absolutely easy. You basically you go to your account on Shopify
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and then you pushed a button you install Luna plug in within seconds. And
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I mean, of course we would need to onboard you, but as far
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as technology is concerned, is super easy and the same as book commerce and
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the whole bunch of other kind of payment systems such as this. So I
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think it is absolutely easy to use, and of course if you have your
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proprietary system, it's also not a problem. We developed a special plug in
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for your e commerce. It takes maybe a week, maybe ten days,
18:08
depending on the complexity of the website, but it is really for our technical
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teams is no brain approach, and we take all the hard work, all
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the integration, all the technicalities on ourselves. So that is all done kind
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of very smoothly and easily. I'm looking at your terminals. You're kind enough
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to send us one. I had a chance to kind of handle it and
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work with it a little bit, very slick. I think this is definitely
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one of those those products that consumers would, you know, want to interface
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with. So there's you know, there's kind of bit of appeal there.
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How does that work between you know, someone a retailer that's got both a
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traditional point of sale you know, card terminal and then a Lulu terminal.
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Those are completely separate systems, right right, You're not integrating the two right
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now. No, not not at the moment. It's it's it's a separate
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system. But in terms of the the way that the retailer would perceive the
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payments and all that, it would be in the same way. Fundamentally,
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they're not dealing with crypto. You know, the customer pays with crypto,
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but then the retailer receives settlement in Fiat sure in US dollars, in pounds,
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in euros, in Swiss francs whatever you want, uh, and it
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is done absolutely smoothly. We send the money within day and it is done.
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So the retailer doesn't deal with crypto, with crypto volatility, et cetera.
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But some of the retailers actually ask us, could we keep the curricul
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and we can do it as well, so you can settle, settle in
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FIAT and crypto either way, whichever the retailer wants. Yes, very okay,
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So all right, So that kind of gets into the hardware side of
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things. Obviously, we've talked a little bit about e commerce and you know,
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the consumer adoption side of things. You get into just adoption and also
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some of the trends we've seen some of the movement with visa. We've seen
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a lot of activity in point of sale terminals like the regular cash registers that
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you know have the swipe devices. How do you see those industries and also
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those companies kind of either adopting or possibly competing in this space. Do you
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think we're going to see the rise of maybe two complete different centers of commerce
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around as especially as crypto becomes more popular as a payment too it. What
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are your thoughts? Well, I think that definitely. We see some of
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the very established the payment systems such as PayPal for example, really kind of
21:00
adapting to crypto trends and starting to accept crypto. We also see some of
21:07
the flagship programs that Visa or MasterCard are doing with some of the exchanges by
21:15
issuing special cards that are connected directly to the crypto account. In fact,
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maybe I can a little bit, you know, raise the curtain of a
21:33
little secret. I cannot name exactly the wallet, but we are working on
21:38
the first very interesting integration where the cold wallet. It will be focused in
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the history of integration of cold wallet and traditional kind of card method So that's
21:56
bear with me. That would be very cool because that's something that we've seen
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a handful of companies, especially in self custody space, start to try to
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figure out solutions here. So you might be onto something there. You look,
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okay, So what is it going to cost me? As a retailer?
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If I say, okay, today I want to get into Lunu.
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I want to be able to start taking it today. I've got the device.
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Is there a cost for the device itself? Yes? The device is
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probably in US dollars around five hundred dollars. So I buy the device and
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then I just have my general as far as onboarding, how quickly could I
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get moving on crypto payments if I said, hey, we're ready to go,
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we want to do it today, it's probably you know, as any
22:48
other payment provider, we would need to onboard the client. So the KYC
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procedure or ky procedure, So we talk about maybe one week something like this.
23:02
Of course it would it would depend on the size of the companies,
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right, how many how many retail devices they might need that they've got,
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but exactly, and we provide of course training on the device for the sess
23:17
assistance for the technical manager. We have a hotline to support whatever the problem
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there is. And normally, I mean we we had maybe a couple of
23:30
issues, but but globally, I mean, this is this is a bloody
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sexy thing you know, to have and and let's not forget that. You
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know, even my little son who is twelve, uh, for the first
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time he saw the things. Dad, this is like from Star Wars.
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And you know it is from Star Wars, and and the technology is from
23:52
Star Wars. You know. That's why you know, all our customers who
23:57
have the device, a super happy and the ware there to support them all
24:02
the time. Well, I could see this really being popular, Like in
24:06
a high end restaurant or retailer. When you see that with you know,
24:10
kind of that white glove table side service being able to go to that device,
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people probably would want to know what that device is just by itself.
24:18
How you know, what was the deal there? Why did that payment work
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that way versus you know, a traditional you know, pin card payment for
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sure. So definitely let's talk a little bit about roadmap for you guys.
24:30
As as things start to transact, We're going to see a lot of activity.
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I think, especially with the regulations in the EU starting to become more
24:37
favorable, retailers of all types are going to start moving into this space.
24:41
We're going to see a real possibly ground swell. How are you guys adapting
24:45
and what are you going to be doing over the next twelve months to really
24:49
kind of ramp up the services and solutions. Well, you would like to
24:55
get to know all our secrets, but but I am ready to disclose some
25:03
of that. Yes, So, because we believe that everybody could benefit from
25:12
the payment revolution, and I think the size of a pie is so big
25:15
that we would all need to go into that direction. So first of all
25:21
for us, of course is geographic expansion, right, so we already have
25:27
incorporated three new companies, one in Dubai, one in the UK, and
25:34
one is actually in the US, so that would be kind of our one
25:41
of our next priorities. Then I think it's really kind of developing our collaborations
25:51
with payment aggregators, payment system providers, whatever they're called. So it's definitely
25:59
the things like Shopify or book commerce from one hand for the e commerce side
26:06
of things. And then uh, something that we haven't talked yet, but
26:11
we are partnering and we have partnered in fact with the some of the biggest
26:19
traditional payment terminal providers such as and Packs, and in fact our app will
26:29
be integrated in their payment systems. So it's it's it's a huge change.
26:34
That's a big that's a big I mean, can you imagine how many million
26:41
devices we talk about, you know, I Genic or packs for that matter.
26:47
And I think that really Luno would be absolutely easy to install in their
26:52
system, almost in the same way as Shopify. So basically, as long
26:56
as are their customer, you would just select an option and boom, the
27:03
the app would be downloaded to the device and that will be so the the
27:10
third direction, as I mentioned, it will be the integration with cold wallets
27:17
and because as all of the crypto fans will love the idea of decentralizations and
27:23
kind of you know, really owning your crypto and being able to spend that
27:30
crypto without you know, a third part that in a very smooth way.
27:34
So this is going to come quite soon. And in general, I think
27:40
that we're big believers in these kind of alternative payment methods based on cure codes,
27:48
and as I mentioned, our Lunar device is equipped with all kinds of
27:56
possibilities to accept the cure code base or NFC based payment system. So basically
28:03
we hope that this device for brick and motor companies would become a next frontier
28:08
of payment terminal. Well, I think you're on the right track here,
28:14
Vidim, that's for sure. I want to announce it and let our kind
28:15
of our audience know. We're going to be doing a giveaway with Lunu and
28:19
it's a pretty good one. All you have to do is go out and
28:22
follow them on one of their socials. You can jump over to the page
28:26
which will leave a link down below and I'll probably tweet this out there.
28:30
But basically, the way this works, there's going to be a two thousand
28:33
dollars in soul value giveaway. They're going to pick twenty winners, and the
28:37
way you get registered for it is go to this link that basically is Luna
28:41
dot Io forward Slash Giveaway dash barn and you're going to be able to fill
28:47
in your name and information so they'll know who you are so they can transact
28:51
on the giveaway. All you have to do is follow them on social and
28:55
like any of their posts. So it's pretty simple giveaway out there. So
28:56
vadem thank you so much for that give away for our audience. And that's
29:00
one of the things I think as we start to see retail consumers start to
29:04
ask retailers, hey, do you take crypto, that's going to start the
29:10
process of people going good. Maybe I need to start thinking about this a
29:14
little bit more. So very cool stuff. Well, definitely us them.
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I like it. We're definitely going to do that. Well. I'm a
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big retail fan in terms of just what the industry is doing, and I
29:26
also think this is going to be one of the critical adoption scenarios that have
29:32
to play out is retail crypto payments and I think just retail in general starting
29:37
to accept whether they do it in a loyalty platform with web three or we
29:41
actually get you know, real life crypto payment options as some of these retailers.
29:45
I think that's the big curve that will probably change the game pretty much
29:51
for all of blockchain out there. So it's going to be one to watch.
29:53
Hey, Damien, it's been great having you on the show today.
29:56
Thank you so much for stopping in. We appreciate it, thank you,
30:00
Thank you, Paul, and knowing that some of your forecasts in the past
30:04
came absolutely true, I think what you just said is just a gold promise
30:11
of the future. Yeah, we're going to get there, no doubt.
30:15
All right, So you guys are tuned in, maybe you're on the podcast
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We'll leave links down below. And of course if you're not following me on
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x it's just at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time, right,
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here on techpath,