Latest / The Redeemed Backslider / Freedom From the P-word TRB# 25 Breanna Arango

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Freedom From the P-word TRB# 25 Breanna Arango · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your host, kathy Chastain.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, kathy Chastain.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I'm a Redeemed Backslider and I'm a Christian-based marriage and family therapist.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: With me in the studio today is Brianna Arango, and she has a very interesting story to tell, one that I think affects many people in our churches, but one that also is not talked about very much, and so I was really really happy that she was willing to be vulnerable and come on the podcast today and share a little bit about her story.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: So welcome to Studio Bree.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So where should we begin?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Because you are not really a backslider as what we would kind of term backsliding, but I think there's a lot of, and actually, now that I think about it, I don't know if it could be called backsliding when you're in the church, you attend church, but then you have a secret, separate life that nobody really knows about.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So would you call that backsliding, or would you call that a fall, or would you just call that wrestling through sin?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: How would you think of that?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: That's a good question.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: How did you think of that?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: How?
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: did you think of it for yourself?
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I guess I would consider it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Maybe just it just felt like continual sinning.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't think I would have considered myself a backslider.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I was very involved in church.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Still, I was very Pursuing God.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, I never left him in that sense or left the church, but I did have sin twisted up in my life very deeply yeah very deeply yeah very deeply.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was backsliding.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I think there is sometimes people that attend church who are in a backslidden state because they're willfully pursuing a secret, separate life.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: But in your case you weren't.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: You were just wrestling through a difficult time and not knowing what to do about it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So you were raised in church.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Your mom was already in church at this time, right, yes?
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And your dad, when you were born, your dad was not yet in church.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Your mom was coming without him.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Is that accurate?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: So tell me a little bit about your childhood and growing up.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was raised in church.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: I attended with my mom.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: My dad was not in church.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: He was a functional drug addict, an alcoholic, all of those things.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: He came in when I was.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: I believe I was about 12, 10, 11, 12.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry about the time here.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to remember, but around.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: there is when he came in To church.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: To church, yes.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Now, was your mom in church when they got married or did she get in church?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Because I think your mom kind of was raised in church, right, so was she in church when they met and got married?
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I believe my grandma was in church and going, but my mom didn't fully practice going to church and living a Christian lifestyle.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I guess you can say but soon after I was born is when she gave her life to God completely.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, and so at 10, 11, 12, you were just a youngster and had your other siblings come along, yet yes, my brother.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: So my sister, my younger sister, we're 10 years apart, and my brother, I believe, we're like 18 months apart.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: So it was him and I.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: We were super close growing up.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So then you grew up in church then for all intents and purposes.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So then, when did you, how old were you when you began to have struggles, when you began to you know, I guess grow up and realize things were not okay in the world?
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Probably, I guess, grow up and realize things were not okay in the world.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Probably when I was 12, when I became a teenager and started junior high, high school, it was all kind of prevalent there.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, junior high is a really big turning point for kids and these days it seems like fifth and sixth grade, like I feel like it's starting younger, when kids are really becoming of age and I a lot probably depends on household as well, but sixth grade seems to be a turning point now in this generation where they're really beginning to be aware of things around them.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: So what was it for you?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Walk us through.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: What started to change for you in your life?
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: I think I kind of, let's see, going into junior high I actually homeschooled.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I went to junior high for a couple months and it was.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: I hated it.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I came and all my friends changed.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: All my friends changed.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Um, it was, you know, parties, drugs, sex, boys, girls, girls and girls, boys and boys and um, for me, it just my spirit wasn't, it didn't, it wasn't connecting, you know, and I realized that that was like I couldn't do that.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: So I homeschooled, actually for two years and then I went to high school and I think when I went to high school I started having more friends and I feel like my dad had come into church, I think when I was like 12 years old and my home life didn't completely change Growing up, I mean, my parents were young, my parents were 17 when I was born, so there was a lot of navigating navigating life there.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: And with my dad, you know, not being in church.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: It was.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: It was a lot for my mom and I think that my home life affected a lot of it.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I think I felt a lot of stress and disconnect from it.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Um so I found, I guess, my out in a sense in pornography and, um, I wouldn't say a comfort, I don't know the right word.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I guess out would be the right word.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: A way to cope.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a way to cope.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Were you always?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Because you're a little bit shy, I guess Is shy the right word.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Were you always like that as a youngster or do you think you grew into be more like that, with the home environment being a struggle, with one parent serving God?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Clearly that would be difficult with a parent that was struggling with addiction.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like you're always kind of on the quiet side and shy, or do you think you developed into that with just the way you grew up?
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I think I was always that way.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: I grew up with a birthmark on my face.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: Now I have a scar, but it was big on my face until I was about 12 or 13.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: So a lot of people would always ask me questions.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: They would make fun of me in school.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: So I think it developed and started kind of there.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: So you were that reserved, pretty self-conscious probably, about that.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: And then so adversity in home, which happens in most homes you know, but adversity in the home environment might have affected you differently than what it might have affected another personality type.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Do you want to elaborate on that, like how, what did it do for you?
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: How did it affect you, would you say?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Did it scare you?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Did it?
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: I don't think it scared me, I think I just pulled back and was more reserved, even more so to myself.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I found myself depressed a lot.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: I would say I kind of would fall.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: I would feel myself like fall into a, my deep hole.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I guess I would say, um and it, I guess it affected me that way, and that's when I would be alone and want to be alone, or by myself not wanting to be around people want to be alone, or by myself not wanting to be around people.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Um, very um.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: My emotions were really rollercoaster up and down.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I feel like I would have moments of happiness and then I remember being really sad or really just depressed, like in that, in that state of mind, um, and being alone.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: That's where I found myself searching.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Did you feel lonely, like when you were alone?
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Do you remember feeling lonely?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Or were you feeling mostly depressed, like?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Can you recall what your thought patterns were?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: What was really causing you to feel what you were feeling?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I would.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I don't recall, I would just.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the chaos at home was what caused me to to feel that way, to just, you know, shut myself out.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: That would probably be.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I don't, I don't know, that would probably be.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I don't, I don't know.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to to dig back in and remember.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: At that point you're probably just surviving and it's hard to, but I know that you have journaled, so I wondered if you went back and looked and kind of you know, just in hindsight, looked at what was going on for you back then, kind of you know just in hindsight, looked at what was going on for you back then.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: I remember in, I guess, the peak of, like, my addiction to pornography.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: My life felt like it was spiraling, I guess, and that was just.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, my dad was saved at the point.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: My dad was in church.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: My home life was, you know, it was getting better because, you know, both my parents were in church.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: They were driving for the same thing, um, but, like my, my grandparents had passed away, um, they were a big part of my life, um, within years apart, um, and I remember just feeling just super out of place within myself.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That's a lot, yeah, I mean, when you feel out of place within yourself, it's hard to know where to go because you don't really know yourself, you don't feel comfortable in your own skin.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so then, how did you find pornography?
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: I was introduced to it at a young age.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: I would say I think most people are what's young, how young.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I feel like I was about seven or eight years old, maybe nine, at my grandparents' house.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: My uncle was.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: I had a young uncle, so I mean my dad was young, so my uncle was even younger and he lived with my grandparents.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Uncle was even younger, um, and he lived with my grandparents, and I think I was just in his room trying to find cartoons and I stumbled upon pornography on the tv and um, I remember just being infatuated.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: You know my little eyes you know, what's happening before me and um, and you know that was the first time and I, I think I remember just remembering that that never really left my subconscious.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: You know my thoughts.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: So when life started to feel overwhelming, it took me back there.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: So do you think it was curiosity, or like when you saw it for the first time, because I could see where curiosity would kind of be like.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: What is this?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Like what you know um or it.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: It clearly made a mark on you yeah at that age.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I'm asking.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: It was curiosity, for sure.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: What mark that was?
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: So when you started to struggle, that's where you went back in your mind.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Mm, hmm, mm hmm, yeah.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And then what happened?
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: After that point.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Um, like did you?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: You had a moment where I'm not okay, I don't feel comfortable in my skin.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like I belong anywhere.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: And you remembered what you saw when you were little.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Then did you immediately go search it out.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Did you know what it was by then at that point oh, this is quote, pornography.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: Or did you just think it was by then at that point, oh, this is quote pornography.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Or did you just think it was love, or I think as I got older um, I from middle school obviously hearing my friends talk about you know, sex and and parties and whatnot and it was always around, it's around in movies, it's around you know it's it's there.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: It's not full on, but you can get that little taste of you know what, what you're looking for, yeah, and so I guess I I kind of always was inclined a little bit to movies and to certain things and certain shows, just to like find that again, without fully indulging you know, and going there and um, I think in high school is when I kind of fell off completely and was like just went in, you know, head first.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I, I intentionally looked it up, I intentionally, uh would watch.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: I, I intentionally looked it up, I intentionally, uh would watch.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: And um, I just knew what I was looking for at that point I think I was old enough to understand and to realize what I was looking for.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess in my mind I was just thinking of this sheltered homeschool girl that you know, in a church environment that doesn't know a lot about all of that stuff.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: But I forget.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: You know we watch movies at home and there's love scenes.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And you know, I wasn't even thinking of that, did it because I would think, if you're watching it in movies, the connotation is this is what love looks like.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: This is what caring about someone would look like or this is what someone was into me or someone likes me how they would show it.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Is that what it was for you?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I don't want to put words in your mouth, but do you remember what the draw was for you, why you would want to watch?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, was it just the act of sex, or did it feel like there was emotion involved in it for you as well?
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: I don't think it felt like emotion.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: I think it just interesting, the act of it and the curiosity okay um, I don't think I I put two and two together.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: That, like this, was love I don't think I ever made that like.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: This is what love is.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: You know, this is what love has to be.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: This is um.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think I ever you're just purely interested in in the okay interesting yeah so then you, you started seeking it out.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay I'm gonna let you take it from here and just walk us through what that looked like for you, what your life began to look like.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: From there, from high school, I was involved in my youth group 100%.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: I was there, I was in the praise team.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I played the bass, I played the organ.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I did all the things that I could to be involved.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed it, I loved it, I loved God.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: I had you know God moments that were deep and, you know, revealing of who God was and that he loved me.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: But in the midst of that, I still found myself going back to pornography, and I don't I think it was in moments of like high stress where I would I would be fine, I would go months, year, you know not but then it would just, you know, escalate to this, and then it slowly, you know, in 2011, my grandpa passed away and my life, just it kind of just felt like out of my hands you know, so it.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: I felt like that's when it kind of peaked.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: I was 18, I graduated, I was, you know, an adult navigating adulthood, living at home.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Still, I went to CLC for like six months.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I would come home and I would watch pornography still.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And while at college or when you were come to vice.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: I had to visit and um, so it kind of just got deeper a little bit, darker a little bit.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: It just felt, I remember getting to a point where it felt like I can't do this anymore, like I don't want to do this anymore, you still do it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: It's like any addiction, anything that you crave for.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: That's how it was.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: It was just I wanted God to take it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: I wanted to give it to him.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: I would ask for forgiveness, I would feel regret, I would feel all of the things, but somehow I still found myself back there.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I still found myself in the same place.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I wanted to read a little bit of a definition about sexual addiction.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Which pornography is classified as sexual addiction?
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Patrick Carnes wrote a book called out of the shadows and, um, anyways, great book for anyone struggling with addiction.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: It's not a Christian book, um, but it is very informative about sexual abuse and its progression.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: But, um, he says that sexual addiction is compulsion, loss of control, secrecy and unmanageability, which are all the things that you described.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Do you know, like, when you think about your addiction to pornography, what part of those four things was the hardest for you to reconcile or to deal with?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Compulsion, secrecy and ability to control it and, you know, making it unmanageable for other areas of your life.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Um, probably like making it unmanageable for other areas of my life.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: I think it affected, it made my emotions like a roller coaster.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I felt like I would be good, I would be fine, then I'd feel angry and then I'd feel this it was like somebody addicted to drugs, where they're like, you know, they're on their high and then they come down and I didn't realize that that was affecting me that much that it was affecting my emotions that way and, um, the secrecy was another part that I know affected me a lot.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Um cause having to hide something like having to carry that burden with you.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: It's just as hard as telling someone about it, you know, Right, right.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: So do you know like when you look back, were there times you know like people that drink, they'll come home from work, they've had a long day, they just go drink right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: They go get a glass of wine, pop a beer, whatever Other people, when they get mad.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: They'll just go get drunk because they're mad like.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Do you know were you?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Were you triggered at certain times by different emotions to indulge, or was it any time, any day, for any reason?
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: I think it was definitely certain emotions or certain things that were playing out in my life at the time.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: So which emotions do you think most triggered your need to escape through pornography?
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Um, probably just conflict at home, or with my parents or with family, would would cause me to fill that.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: So like would it be stress, or would it be sadness, or would it be anger?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Would it be frustration?
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think it was all of those put together yeah.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I think I felt those all at the same time and that's when it would.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: It would take me back down that road, yeah.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so how did you eventually get free?
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Um, I was.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: It was in 2013, so I was 21, 22.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And I was sitting in a friend's car and I had been praying again for God to like help me to bring someone to.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: You know, I would search for books online of people, that of women that struggle, not just people and I never found anyone.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't find a book.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't find a book.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: I didn't find a person.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I didn't find a random video on YouTube of a woman talking about you know them, struggling.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I was sitting in a friend's car during Sunday school one service and I was telling her, probably about something dramatic in my life at the time and she was talking to me and she was, you know, talking about her life and how God had placed someone in her life and she said that she had these few friends that God placed in her life at this time, and she said that one of them was she was a Christian that you know.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: She went to church down the road and she was addicted to pornography before and she was married and I don't think she ever, I don't think she had a reason to even say that.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I don't even think she remembers saying saying that when I went back to her, but she said it and in that moment I, like my heart, stopped it and in that moment I, like my heart stopped, I, I felt like such a a freedom in that moment of like, okay, there is somebody else Cause she did.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: She know at the time you're struggling with pornography.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Nobody did no, but you kept it all hidden.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: And so she, she said that we finished our conversation.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: I didn't say anything at that point, but I definitely went home with hope, yeah, with hope, for sure.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: And so the following Sunday I was like, hey, can we talk again?
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I need to talk to you.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: And it was really hard to say the words and to tell her and to admit that I needed help and that she knew who, somebody that could help me, and I, I told her that I was addicted to pornography and that, um, you knew somebody that could help me and and that was kind of it she held my hand, she said we'd, we'd get through this together and we did, yeah, so so I think it's really important to pause and talk about, because you and others that you know we've had on the podcast has said I have this thing in my life.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I know it is blatant sin, I know that it is not pleasing to God and I ask him to take it and he's not taking it and you desire for him to take it.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: So now that you're on the other side of that, what do you think about that?
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Why do you that God didn't just deliver you from that when you first prayed about it miraculously, versus having to walk it out in your life through process?
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: So it's funny because I actually was going back in my journal and reading about this Uh, reading about this, uh, and for me I realized in um, I had realized that I didn't want to give it to him that I was holding onto it, and yet you were praying.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: I was praying that he would take it and that he would, but it was just such a security that I I couldn't let it go Like I wasn't ready to.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: And I think, because of the secrecy of it, because of the darkness and because no one else knows, I don't really have to give it up.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't really.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: I could ask God and I could plea and I really really want to, but it just is so easy to tap back into that.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So how did you discover Cause I think it's that's so powerful what you just said.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: How did you discover within yourself, how did you make the realization that you didn't really want to give it to him?
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: You're saying all the right things, you're doing all the right things, but yet you were holding on.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: How did you come to recognize that after you went back through your journals?
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Honestly, I had asked, I had told three people knew about this and I had told, and I I needed their help.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: And they were in my life and that's who I had decided to trust at the time and who I feel like God placed in my life and I had.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: I told them.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: I asked God, you know, to take it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: I want him to take it out, I'm going to give it to me.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: And they're both, at different times, were like you're not giving this to him, you're not, you're, you're holding onto it, you're saying you want to, but you're, you're keeping it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: And even after that point of them telling me that I still, I still held on to it but I remember that you were holding on like I think I realized that I was.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: After that, I realized that I I wasn't letting it go and that I was being selfish and not letting god like being too good for god, almost like he I can't go say I'm sorry because I did this.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: You know, god died on the cross for me.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: He, you know, he did this big thing for me and I don't want to let him forgive me.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I don't want to, you know, ask for his help.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I want to keep it, even though I am asking, you know like you felt like you didn't deserve to be, you didn't deserve to be forgiven, you didn't deserve to have him take it because of his sacrifice.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I think my personality type as well of.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: I realized over the years of before this God's helped me a lot, though, like wanting to, I'm like an all in person, so like if you hurt me, then I was like you don't deserve to be part of my life.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Just cut them all or nothing, yeah.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: So I feel like for myself it was like I'm either all or nothing with God in that sense.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: So I think for me when I look back I was kind of like, well, I think I was doing that.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I was like you know, God, you can't have all of me.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: You know like just that, it kind of connected for me when I was reading it back.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: And after going, going back and looking at that I feel like I was putting myself in that, in that position of what I did to other people.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: But I also think you said something really interesting is that it was your security blanket.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: And when we give those things to God that make us feel like ourself, or make us feel maybe like a false sense of control, but it comforts us because you know, nothing else is when you're going through that kind of thing.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: It's very hard to relinquish that to him because the fear is okay.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Now what?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: What am I going to do If I give you this?
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen to me when the next time I feel like this?
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Where am I going to go?
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: How am I going to feel better?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Right, and not having that experience with God to know he's going to be there and pick you up and take care of it?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: It's so hard to surrender.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fear plays such a role in so many areas of our life but, um, so you were just thinking that, okay, if I'm going to live for God, even though at the time you were doing all the things that you thought you should be doing yeah.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: So how long did it take?
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: What do you know, like what steps you took before you were ready to actually surrender that and really make change?
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Like within this time of from when I told nobody to um I think it was about eight months or so of like the back and forth of okay, I slipped up, okay this, okay this.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: And there was a moment where I felt like God had delivered me, like I had given it to him and he had taken it, and from that point forward, there was no, there was no going back there was no, there was no going back.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So the slip-ups, because I think that's a very important part of coming out of a lifestyle that has been what we've known for some time.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not just clear, concise cookie cutter.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, boom, boom, god, everything's gone.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Although sometimes God does do it that way in people.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: They just never look back and they just move forward and that's it.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's harder for those of us who grew up in church.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I wonder.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: I haven't done any research around that or tested that theory, but I wonder for those of us that grew up in church if our process is longer because Of all the things we know, yes, kind of.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, knowledge can sometimes be a hindrance to us.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: But I forgot what I was saying.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Eight months it took you to work through that.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was saying I think that we have to have grace sometimes for the slip ups too.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Do you remember feeling like a ton of condemnation during that, now that the cat was out of the bag and you were really trying to release it to God, and then you would fall back and slip or use, or you know, look at porn again.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Did you feel condemnation or did you feel conviction?
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I felt conviction at that point and having someone in my life that went through what I went through was it was a godsend because she was able to relate to me and help me and lead me back.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: You know, she gave me the bank and then I needed it and moved forward.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, but not in a way that I felt Accountability and correction.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: So having that was it was incredible.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know um because when I did, um, have slip ups when I fell, I and having that was it was incredible, yeah, you know, because when I did have slip ups when I fell, I, you know I beat myself up, I was mad at myself, I, you know I got to this point and then I'm still.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: I'm still failing, you know myself, but she always directed me back to the word of God and to be in the word and I realized that through that, that was the only thing that kept me going on the right path was having that.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, I think you said something too that's really good.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: You said you were letting yourself down, and I think that's a difference.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: When we try to do this for someone else versus our will is actually involved to want to make the change, you know, from our heart's place, to really to really serve the Lord, to really want to please him.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: You know, and it's coming from our free will.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: It's so much.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: It's so different than trying to do it for someone else.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's where the difference between having a relationship with God is versus being a religious person, because when it's a relationship, we're really doing it for all the right reasons, and I guess religion can be that too right.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: People want to be Christians for all the right reasons, but until you get it for yourself, it's just so much easier to fall.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: So where does that leave you now?
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Have you talked about this very much in the open space?
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Not I have mentioned it a few times um, probably to a Bible study group.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: You know, you kind of just blurt it out and move on with the rest of what you're saying.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Um, but I don't think I've ever.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: You know, you kind of just blurt it out and move on with the rest of what you're saying, but I don't think I've ever.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: You know, really I haven't sat down with anyone.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: That's gone through, you know, and has the struggle, but every time that I do say it I feel a little bit freer still, even to this day as long as it's been.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: I still feel like a weight is lifted.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so why do you think we don't talk about pornography in the church?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: We definitely don't talk about it among women, but do you think we talk about it very much among men either?
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: No, I don't.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: The struggle is probably even greater for a man which is.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: You know, it's prevalent, it's known, so man which is you know, it's prevalent, it's known, so I even so, I feel like that should be something that's talked about, especially in this day, like I mean you could, anyone that watches TV or YouTube or whatever half naked girl pops up on a commercial you know, and then by text messages to senior citizens' telephones.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: It's infuriating, it's just there, it's crazy.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: The fact that we don't talk about it is, I feel like it's a disservice to men to women, especially to women, because they do struggle.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: The same thing that a guy sees, a woman sees, and you know, we don't know if that they're inclined to to fall or to have those sexual desires in that way um, but it definitely needs to be talked about more, yeah yeah I think I don't know why we don't talk about it more either, other than pornography in general is a sensitive subject because it conjures up images, right?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Anybody who's had carnal knowledge automatically knows what pornography means, and if they've already got carnal knowledge, you can picture something in an instant in your mind, and so you don't really want that going out to the whole church.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You know I could see, but I wanted to share some statistics that I think you might find interesting.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you have ever looked them up have ever looked them up but 41% of women admit to viewing pornography online.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: This was a study done in 2020, I believe 41% of women say that they view pornography online, compared to 67% men.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: That's not a big variation.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: No, that's so close.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Almost exactly the same.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: That's a lot.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: There's another study that was done, so there's a few studies out there.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Another study said that 60.2% of women view pornography, compared to 91.5% of men.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: I'm inclined that a lot.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: It's so common among men because so many men grow up with it and it's been socially accepted as normative, certainly not in the church world, but in every other part of society.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: It's just considered a guy's conversation Right, but this is what I think is your heartbeat and where I think that the church could maybe grow into dealing with.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: To dealing with For 14 to 18 year olds.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: 57% of teen girls report viewing pornography.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: So that is 57% of our 14 year olds to 18 year olds, high school age and women 18 to 30 years old.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: In the United States that was all United States as well 76% of women report watching porn between the ages of 18 to 30.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: So very young demographic.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Which is alarming, I know.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: In my practice I've had junior high kiddos and high school kiddos.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: The thing now is Snapchat and snapping naked pictures or video.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I mean crazy stuff.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Kids grade because they're children and they themselves have sent a picture which is child pornography, and anyone that distributes that which kids share with friends.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: They're now distributing child pornography.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: It's very serious, but kiddos don't recognize that, and so I think there is a huge opportunity for our Sunday school and youth to kind of educate in that area and for you to really kind of educate in that area and for you to really talk about it and share your story or I don't know, I don't know what that would look like for you, brianna, but I know you have a heart to really help people that might struggle with it, and I think what used to be the norm in my generation has changed quite a bit for your generation and then the generation after you.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely getting worse and worse and those numbers are getting higher and higher.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: They're not going down Right.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: The access that we have now is insane.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Right the access that we have now is it's insane.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine being stuck now how I was, you know, 10, eight years ago, but I definitely want to bring light to this because it's obviously there.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: You know the numbers are there and it's not going away.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: It would be one thing if it was going down and it was going away.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: But it's not, unfortunately, and women get stuck.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: We feel alone anyways most of the time and you feel insecure and all these feelings as a woman.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: And to add this and to have to admit it to somebody is it's hard.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: You know I thank God that I had that little escape of you know it already being said.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: All I had to do was, you know, bring my part to it and meet up with somebody, right my part to it and meet up with somebody Right and I think you know the spiritual ramifications of this is, I think, significant, because I always like to clarify sin.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sensitive to that word, I don't really like that word, even though the Bible is ripe with that word, but I like to really clarify that sin is separation from God, because I think in religious culture overall it's been kind of a dirty word and used to create condemnation and I don't think that's probably across the board.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm just fairly sensitive to it across the board.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm just fairly sensitive to it.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: But secrecy is one of the enemy's biggest tools that he uses against people in general but definitely against children of God, is to create an environment where secrecy exists.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: And so you know, I want to talk a little bit about the addiction piece and where the spiritual aspects come into play, because I think that it's easy to dismiss porn as just oh, it's no big deal, but the obsession.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: So in Patrick Karn's book he talks about the cycle of addiction and sexual abuse being preoccupation, which in a cognitive behavioral framework we would call that obsession right.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: So thoughts, emotions and then our behavior.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: So the obsession of this is what I need.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: This is what I need.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm going to do.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: As soon as I get free, as soon as I can get away from somebody, I'm going to going to, going to, going to right and then the ritualization how that comes into play.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Right, everybody has their own ritual.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: The way they do something changes.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: So some people could be their phone in their car, away from someone.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Others it could be in the shower with their phone.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Others, it could be like you know, under their blanket with their phone, but everyone has a way of which they do stuff their phone.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Others, it could be like you know, under their blanket with their phone, or, but everyone has a way of which they do stuff.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: If someone's going to get drunk, they've got the way they're going to go get drunk.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: If someone's going to use, they know exactly what environment to create so they can escape, to go, find a way to get high.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: And so the ritualization piece, compulsion, compulsive behavior.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: And so the ritualization piece, compulsion, compulsive behavior, that's actually the act of what you're going to do.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: However, you're going to fill that need, fill that void, create the outcome you desire, and then the despair, perpetuated through shame.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: And that's being yourself up, feeling bad about yourself.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: And if you're a Christian, that's where the enemy is really going to come in and further condemn somebody and really really make you feel even less than and when we act in ways that separate us from God.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: It makes it so much harder for us to forgive ourselves, even though God is standing there waiting to forgive us because we know our behavior.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: It makes it really hard for people to forgive themselves and accept the forgiveness that God.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: But I had heard a story of somebody who had a perpetual masturbation.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was an addiction or if it was just a way that they released their emotion or whatever, but they had reported having a dream that they saw themselves with a snake wrapped around their body and just the tail was hanging out and under their bed the snake had hatched several eggs and little tiny snakes was crawling around underneath the bed and that person reported directly linking it to their struggle with that.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: And up until that time they didn't really know if masturbation was a sin or not.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: They didn't really know if it was okay.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: If it wasn't okay, it was like a gray area.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: They weren't really sure it wasn't masturbated to pornography and so there was some confusion there and until they had sort of reported that, I thought, wow, I wonder what the spiritual ramifications are, how the enemy, I think.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I think the explanation of the snake being wrapped around the body is so very telling, because we are flesh, you know soul and spirit, and if the devil has our flesh, soul and spirit, and if the devil has our flesh.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: It makes it really really difficult to overcome in our spirit and in our soul.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: So I know that's a lot to say right there, but what are your thoughts?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: What do you think you experienced in the flesh piece and in the spiritual piece?
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Did you ever connect those two beyond just oh, this is wrong.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know if my question is even clear, but I mean, aside from just the sin aspect, did you ever see it in any other kind of spiritual significance?
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: not that that's not important, it's totally important I think I always seen it as the sin aspect and definitely separating me from god um and putting that space there, because I know that when I was coming out of it and when my friend was helping me, it was staying in the word that kept me grounded, and God is the word that's him Right right.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: And it was.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: If I wasn't in the word, if I wasn't studying, if I wasn't at a Bible study, if I wasn't doing something and I didn't have my thoughts, you know, captive, I didn't have my conversations pure that's so good If I didn't have, you know, just joking around with friends.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: That kept me a little fleshly or a little.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: It wasn't even a bad conversation, so good.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just a little seed, right, right.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: You know there were things I had to take out.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: And I didn't even realize.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I didn't realize it was you know country music that was keeping me there.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Or these friends that I had to just stay away from for a little bit.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: But if I allowed those things to keep going and I didn't stay in the word, then I failed, I would give in, but staying connected to God that way was what kept me definitely grounded and connected back to God and I realized that I've said, I've said this several times, um, to different people, but you know, I feel like when God created us, you know there was this space that was meant just for him and us and we fill it with all these different things and I feel like that's what I did.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: I filled it with this sin and, yes, I had other sin in my life.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: There were other things that I felt and that I, you know, probably picked up again and but there was nothing like this and I think it was the self condemnation that kept I kept feeling it even with that.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: You know the thoughts of like you can't be forgiven, no one's gonna, no one's gonna think you're you're, you know you're fully out of this sin, but reminding myself that God loved me, that he died for me, that his word was true and it kept me, definitely kept me.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: That's so good because you were focused on him and where you were going and what was true.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: And you're so right how all the things that seem insignificant really can be triggers to get us right back into that emotion that caused us.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, it was yeah.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: I heard a song the other day.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: I was in a.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Where was I?
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I was in a.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Where was I?
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I was in a restaurant.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I was in some place outside of my control and this song came on the radio and, man, it just sent me to a whole different place and I was like I was so aware of just how much, how narrow my life has become in having to keep all of those things out.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with the song, but it was where it took me and my thoughts and my emotions and how it made me feel Things can just pull us right back so easily.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: You know that there's a reason that when we come anonymous narcotics anonymous, you know alcoholics, anonymous, whatever it is they tell them go to 90 meetings in 90 days, cause you have to just stay laser focused on where you're headed and what your goal is and and really create some separation from the old life that you used to have.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I believe that, yeah, and that's what we do when we turn our life over to the Lord right.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: The Bible says letting go of those things which are behind and reaching towards that which is in front, pressing towards the mark of the high prize, and I think that that's you know.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: But it's so nice to see it broken down in practical terms, like you said, just having to stay grounded in the word.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: And I feel like that's hard for someone that doesn't have somebody.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: I had my friend who went?
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: Through who recovered from pornography, and if I didn't have her to keep reminding me, if I didn't have the 90 days of meetings with her writings with her.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: I.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that would look like now you know, yeah, but it is important to you know, have someone that's Christ minded to keep you and go along with you and remind you.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Because you know Jesus told Peter in the in the garden when he asked him to pray.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: You know the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak you know, and I think maybe, now that I'm just thinking about that, I I wonder if that snake wrapped around that body was the flesh being you know.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: So, taken Like the flesh is weak, it will suck you back in in a second.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: You know, and I don't know I need to think further about that, but yeah, anyways, I do.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: What would you say to somebody, then, who finds themselves addicted to pornography or even sex or anything that is comforting them instead of God?
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: I would definitely say to find that one person that you can tell.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: The first thing is telling somebody, the more it's kept a secret, the more it's hidden, the more it's not out there.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: I feel like the devil likes to keep people like that, like bound by themselves, can't tell anybody yeah isolated and find that person you could tell, and the more you say it, the more free you'll feel for sure.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: But for me it was telling somebody and then we kind of got my phone on lockdown and then we got in the Word and in Bible studies and stayed connected.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: How did you get your phone on lockdown?
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Did you use Covenant Eyes?
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: I didn't, but they took my phone and deleted all the apps and put parent locks on it.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: Did it that way.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: And that was your choice.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: That was something you were willing to do because you really wanted to get free from this right.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you said tell somebody because, like I said, the enemy works best in secret.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: And so children that are abused, children that are sexually abused that is what keeps them struggling also is they never tell anyone until finally they're in their adulthood or their life has become unmanageable, and then they finally connect the dots and say something but tell, tell, tell.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so important to tell somebody.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: It is yeah, and you journaled a lot.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: I did the whole time yeah.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: I wanted to have a, I wanted to remember, I wanted to help somebody, I wanted to be able to hand someone my journal and say you know, you can do this too.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: So what would you tell somebody about journaling, like, how did that help you, what?
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: How did you even know to pick up a journal and write when you were young, like that?
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: I always liked journaling, taking notes.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: I felt like that was just a way to express myself.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: I'm an introvert, so for me it was easiest just to write my feelings down and get them out that way.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: So for this, like I said, I wanted to have something to remember.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: I wanted to go back and be able to tell someone that they could do it too.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: I wanted to write a book, honestly that's why I kept it.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: I wanted to remember those things, yeah.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Well, you're going to write a book.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: You got to write a book because I think you know that was quite a while ago and the Lord, I think, put that in your heart.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: For you to write a book because that was you know, that was your initial thought, you know.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: I think, that's how God works, anyways.
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: Someone journaling, I would say definitely do it, even if that's your first way of saying I'm addicted to pornography.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: Write it down, get it out there some way and from there kind of keep going.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: I think we don't really express ourselves when you're stuck in that.
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: There's no way to express yourself.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: So you can at least get it down and gather your thoughts.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: It might be a little easier to tell somebody or say hey, read my, read my notebook.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: Here it is.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: However, you got to get it out.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and sometimes that is the easiest because they can't say it in person, it's, it's so shaming or it's too difficult, but you can hand someone your book and say yeah.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I want to share this with you.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: Sometimes that is way easier for people to do.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, that's what you have to do Do it, yeah, and you know, make sure you pick carefully who you share with.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, if you have a youth, you know a youth leader or Sunday school teacher, you know.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Pick somebody that that you that is older, you know you never know if you can trust someone until you risk trusting them.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: But sharing with your peers um can be tricky because usually we're learning how to trust, you know, when we're young, trying to grow up, so that's not always the best and to like if I thought about any friends that I would have told at that point there's none in my circle that would have been able to help me.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: You know, they would have just been like, oh, I'm sorry, or you know it wouldn't have been a a direct push in the right direction of getting more help you know, because sometimes you know, maybe the person you tell doesn't know how to help you, but they can direct you to a counselor or to somebody that that can.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's see what else I wanted to clarify.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Fifty four percent of practicing Christians report consuming porn and 40% practicing Christian women report consuming porn.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: So that's you know those numbers in the national survey and among Christians are really the same.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: That's half the women in our church.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: You know if you kind of think of it that way it's crazy.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's much more prevalent, I think, than I mean.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't really even know its prevalency until I started looking at the data, knowing we were going to be doing this, especially among Christians.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: I know it's out there, I know it's available.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: It's not everyone's vice, but I think in the Christian context I don't know if this is true I'm speculating.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I wonder if we tend to reach for things that seem more socially acceptable than things that aren't Like.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: For example, because alcohol is legal, a vast majority of people would choose to drink over illicit drugs because they could rationalize in their mind that it's legal.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: It's socially acceptable too.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Right, I've heard that so many times.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: And then when marijuana became legal, then that didn't seem so bad either.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: And alcohol use is actually decreased among youth, because marijuana use has increased and among women it's off the charts.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Girls, teenagers, are smoking way way more, maybe even more, than boys, but marijuana use among girls is so increased.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Instead of alcohol, alcohol is really taking a back seat.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting, but yeah, I think that I don't know how to have this conversation other than the podcast.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: In a youth environment, in a church environment?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Do you have any suggestions?
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: We were kind of talking about a question there.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: How would you see this rolling out If you could say we really need to get this in the churches?
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: What resources do you think would be useful or that would need to be created?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: What would have helped?
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: you Probably, if somebody just I mean, I don't know, I tried.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: After all of this, I did a book with our youth girls.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: That book, every Young Woman's Battle.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: It wasn't exactly this.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: It kind of covers a variety of topics, but that was my way of trying to get it out there.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like it fully did the right thing.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like it hit the right mark, yeah.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: But I don't even know until hearing that someone else.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: I guess just this yeah, hearing that someone else went through it, hearing that there was someone else that could help me, it made all the difference.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: If I had maybe a book or something that I could purchase and read and kind of get the bravery to be able to tell somebody else that I struggled may have helped.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: I guess that's what I looked for mostly.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: I looked for books of someone that was struggling.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: I looked for podcasts.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: I looked for books of someone that was struggling.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: I looked for podcasts, I looked for websites, and there wasn't much for women out there, if any Ten years ago, right?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it might be being talked about a little bit more than it was then, but I still don't think among Christians it's probably talked about very much.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: Well, I can't even imagine as like a married woman having to.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have to admit that to your husband and you have to.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: You know, it's a whole different ball game there.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: How was?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: your husband.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: When you admitted did he, did he think it was a big deal Cause cause guys, so many guys use porn.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like he understood how big of a deal it was for you or do you feel like he thought, oh, he understood how big of a deal it was.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: yeah, we kind of had that talk when we were dating, when things started getting serious and you know he understood.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of questions to ask there, but.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I won't because it's pretty intimate.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, well, I'm excited, bree, in the fact that you have a passion for this and you want to really see you know some resources created and figure out what this might look like for you and your ministry.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: You and Michael have your own company, grayson Harmony Company, where you guys make shirts and hats and all kinds of swag for churches and and and logos for companies and such.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm excited to see where you go with this, what this could become in terms of a ministry tool for you, because I don't think we go through things for no reason.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I think God uses everything in our life to help someone else, right?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Look for it.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: God uses everything in our life to help someone else, right?
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited, look for it.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: Hopefully it'll be here soon.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I just want people to know there's hope.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that God really can set the captive free.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, any last thoughts before we finish?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much for being vulnerable and sharing your story.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: And if there's anyone out there who struggles, any females, particularly if you struggle with pornography or suspect your children I mean, if you're a parent, check your kid's phone, Do not, please do not take for granted that your children are sweet and innocent, because sweet and innocent kids get sent stuff and their friends talk to them about stuff.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Even if they don't want to know, even if they're not asking they, they do become exposed.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: So have the conversation with your children at least, and reach out to us.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: We'll definitely send you resources, we'll send you.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: You know I can send you what I have and connect you with Brianna.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: If somebody out there needs a mentor or anything, so you can find us on our website theredeemedbacksliderorg and we will connect you.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much for being here.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Thanks everybody.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Hope to see you again soon.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Visit our website at theredeemedbacksliderorg.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.