Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 191: Sicker Than Hell

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Ep. 191: Sicker Than Hell · The MeatEater Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
0:13
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You Can't
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Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the
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Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt
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Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play Store. Nor where
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Speaker 1: you stand with on x Okay, tim slide, tell us
0:35
Speaker 1: what what we're gonna do. We're gonna really, we're gonna
0:38
Speaker 1: milk out the introduction. Tell what is an epidemiologist? I
0:44
Speaker 1: mean I kind of I mostly kind of know, but
0:48
Speaker 1: just but tell everybody. I'll tell you honest, Okay, the
0:50
Speaker 1: word doesn't have anything to do with the illness. Epi
0:53
Speaker 1: means around the most means people. Anology is to study
0:57
Speaker 1: of it. Somehow we've put disease is onto that, but
1:00
Speaker 1: it goes back to Aristotle, actually Hippocrates. In the old days,
1:04
Speaker 1: anything that was visited upon a population from outside, such
1:09
Speaker 1: as a plague or warts or something like that. Investigated.
1:15
Speaker 1: Words are visited from the outside. I'm sure they were.
1:17
Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't have warts yesterday. Now today everybody's
1:20
Speaker 1: got warts. I mean they just give using this example.
1:23
Speaker 1: So diseases have taken over epidemiology, but the original word
1:27
Speaker 1: did had nothing to with diseases because they didn't know
1:30
Speaker 1: about them. They had some spectacular ideas about where diseases
1:35
Speaker 1: came from. But the miasma was actually started by Hippocrates
1:41
Speaker 1: in a sort of a pretty reasonable way. Before that,
1:44
Speaker 1: it was the stars, demons, gods who were displeased with
1:48
Speaker 1: the evils of mankind, all kinds of devils and so on,
1:52
Speaker 1: causing disease. Indeed, But then Hippocrites came along and said,
1:58
Speaker 1: look forget the supernatural, think of natural. So if you
2:02
Speaker 1: if you're living in a swampy area, you look at
2:05
Speaker 1: those people and again in more chance of having fevers
2:08
Speaker 1: and the people who live on a nice clear mountaintop.
2:12
Speaker 1: He was right, but it wasn't the smell and the
2:14
Speaker 1: swamp that did it. It was the mosquitoes that lived
2:16
Speaker 1: in the swamp. So he had the right solution. But
2:19
Speaker 1: at least he brought supernatural down to natural. But we
2:23
Speaker 1: had miasma lasting until really the mid eighteen hundreds, until
2:28
Speaker 1: like Pasteur and Carr came along and found bacteria for
2:32
Speaker 1: the first time. So it's my it's myasthma, not miasma.
2:35
Speaker 1: You can pronounce it anyway you like. But that concept
2:38
Speaker 1: was the idea that there was just bad air, bad air,
2:42
Speaker 1: And of course we get bad are with malaria in
2:44
Speaker 1: Italian bad air, so we still used the word bad
2:48
Speaker 1: air in the in the name of in the malaria.
2:51
Speaker 1: Isn't it wild that they were just getting like wiped
2:55
Speaker 1: out by malaria, not making the connection between that mosquitoes
2:58
Speaker 1: for hundreds and hundreds of years, and they knew the
3:00
Speaker 1: connection between stagnant, stale collected water and disease, but I
3:05
Speaker 1: didn't know why. So they made the right solutions, but
3:09
Speaker 1: for the wrong reason. What tell me what, where? Where?
3:13
Speaker 1: So you're not a bidemiologist, he tell us what it means?
3:15
Speaker 1: Where where do you practice? What is your what is
3:19
Speaker 1: your career? Virtually anyway, especially is food born diseases. But
3:23
Speaker 1: my colleagues are sometimes clinical epidemiologists, and they help physicians
3:28
Speaker 1: in the hospitals run randomized controlled trials. In occupational health
3:34
Speaker 1: epidemiologists who are really trying to study diseases in the workplace,
3:38
Speaker 1: because remember, workers exposed to ten hundred times more problems
3:44
Speaker 1: than the citizens are, so normally the diseases emerge more
3:48
Speaker 1: in a worker working in a mine and a forest
3:52
Speaker 1: and a slaughter house wherever it is. They're exposed to
3:55
Speaker 1: much more chemical plants, pharmaceutical plants. It's the workers where
3:58
Speaker 1: diseases begin to show up first, So we study there.
4:01
Speaker 1: Why why is that? Because they're they're they're they're exposed
4:05
Speaker 1: to more. I mean, if you're packing I don't know,
4:08
Speaker 1: let's take viagra in a pharmaceutical plant. You're breathing in
4:13
Speaker 1: this dust and a eight hour shifts every day for
4:16
Speaker 1: for thirty years. You're exposed to farm or this incidental
4:20
Speaker 1: chemical than somebody using the citizenry and we just buy
4:24
Speaker 1: one a couple. I'm using viagra as a strange example,
4:27
Speaker 1: but you can see that they're exposed to far more.
4:29
Speaker 1: People working in the vinyl chloride industry making polyvinyl chloride PBC,
4:35
Speaker 1: those people were began to fall like flies for a
4:39
Speaker 1: very rare liver disease uh hem angioma that only affects
4:45
Speaker 1: people who work in the PVC industry. Really, yeah, because
4:50
Speaker 1: it's a it's a polymer plastics of polymers, right, You
4:53
Speaker 1: get gases and liquids and you polymerize and again to
4:55
Speaker 1: make a solid. That's where polyvinyl chloride, vinyl chloride is
5:00
Speaker 1: a is a gas. It's highly carcinogenic, but the molecules
5:04
Speaker 1: together you get polyvinyl code which is pretty stable until
5:06
Speaker 1: you get incinerated at the end of its life, then
5:09
Speaker 1: it could produces fear ends and dioxidants. So it's dangerous
5:13
Speaker 1: at the beginning when you're making it, dangerous at the
5:15
Speaker 1: end when you're burning it, but it's okay in the middle.
5:18
Speaker 1: So this, this is probably a misconception I had about
5:21
Speaker 1: Remember I told you I knew all about it. I
5:22
Speaker 1: was gonna have you tell you honest, I didn't know
5:24
Speaker 1: about it. I had the misconception that I thought epidemiology
5:29
Speaker 1: what that you only looked at infectious diseases that like
5:34
Speaker 1: spread from person to person In the early days, Steve,
5:37
Speaker 1: you would be right, and people worried about plague, and
5:39
Speaker 1: they're worried about horrible diseasely anthrax and typhoid and that,
5:44
Speaker 1: And it's still a major part of things. I mean,
5:47
Speaker 1: those diseases haven't gone away. It's still around. But more
5:50
Speaker 1: and more epidemiology looks at at even accidents. You look
5:54
Speaker 1: at heart disease and cancers. Now we have a few
5:58
Speaker 1: infectious cancers. Cancers are round The first one was the
6:01
Speaker 1: feline leukemia virus, and that was a virus that can
6:05
Speaker 1: infect something called cancer human papuloma virus, which you know,
6:09
Speaker 1: you get your kids vaccinated for HPV and it's almost
6:13
Speaker 1: will wipe out uh future um, cervical cancer. Yeah, that's
6:18
Speaker 1: the one that's like a little bit controversial because people
6:21
Speaker 1: feel that little kids will get vaccinated and they will
6:23
Speaker 1: be more likely to become like sexually promiscuous. No one
6:26
Speaker 1: that they're don't. Yeah, it's like it's kind of like
6:30
Speaker 1: funny logic where there's a thing like you can get um,
6:33
Speaker 1: what's called h HPV HPV, So you can vaccinate your
6:37
Speaker 1: child for a is it? Is it a neural disease?
6:41
Speaker 1: It's a virus. The virus spread through sexual contact. Yeah,
6:45
Speaker 1: but you've got to get the kids before the first
6:48
Speaker 1: contact with with the virus, which means guaranteed before the
6:52
Speaker 1: first sexual contact. That's right. And some people argue like, oh,
6:55
Speaker 1: I don't want my kid to get it because then
6:57
Speaker 1: they'll be like the only thing keeping their kid from
7:00
Speaker 1: being sexual is the fear of HPV apparently, and so
7:04
Speaker 1: then you give them pretty much Yeah, I just see this,
7:10
Speaker 1: like I see this idea of floating aroun out there.
7:12
Speaker 1: It always strikes me as funny. Um, you specialize in
7:15
Speaker 1: food born, how do you I've had a number of
7:20
Speaker 1: food born things that I'd like to talk about, But
7:22
Speaker 1: how how do you how do you sort of encapsulate
7:26
Speaker 1: what would be food born? Is it like does it
7:29
Speaker 1: does it mean like that you have to ingest it?
7:31
Speaker 1: Or is it exposure to like like is it exposure
7:35
Speaker 1: to the food system that you could get or does
7:41
Speaker 1: it have to does food born illness have to mean
7:42
Speaker 1: that you like you physically ingested it in your mouth
7:45
Speaker 1: and swallowed it. Food born that's food or water that
7:49
Speaker 1: gets ingested. There were something diseases with you. You You can
7:52
Speaker 1: even like like tillermia for example, you know rabbit feba.
7:55
Speaker 1: That's where I was going with this. H That one
7:57
Speaker 1: is a main food going east. But you can also
8:00
Speaker 1: get it who cuts on the skin and through inhaling
8:02
Speaker 1: through an aerosola. That's a very versatile organism. But mainly
8:07
Speaker 1: it's food bones disease. You're ingesting it, whether it's a
8:09
Speaker 1: toxin and the food, whether it's a bacteria, a parasite
8:13
Speaker 1: of fungus or virus. Just to just to play an
8:17
Speaker 1: old chemical, the old food bones, diseases. I want to
8:19
Speaker 1: walk through a whole bunch of diseases I'm interested in.
8:23
Speaker 1: And then it apply to sort of outdoor people, um,
8:26
Speaker 1: and don't want to start with to laremia because there's
8:29
Speaker 1: a thing like you guys can bat me up on this.
8:33
Speaker 1: People sort of have this idea. People have this idea
8:36
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with rabbits, right, but something wrong with
8:42
Speaker 1: rabbits before the first freeze of the year. And there's
8:45
Speaker 1: all sorts of old wives tales about dude I carried
8:47
Speaker 1: around with him. My kid killed a rabbit the other day.
8:49
Speaker 1: It was a little stick bow and it's like, well,
8:53
Speaker 1: he's walking around with it all. I mean, like like
8:55
Speaker 1: I would argue overhandling it. And it's summertime, and I'm like,
9:00
Speaker 1: you know, I know from growing up the one dacent
9:03
Speaker 1: handle a rabbit before the first frost. And then I
9:07
Speaker 1: remember get a couple of years ago about a guy
9:09
Speaker 1: that ran over uh, like a desiccated rabbit. What is
9:15
Speaker 1: lawnmower and got like an aerosolized to lama in his lungs. Yeah,
9:25
Speaker 1: walk us through like what's wrong, what's wrong with rabbits?
9:28
Speaker 1: And when it's not just rabbits. In fact, if you
9:31
Speaker 1: track it right down to his origin the reservoir, if
9:35
Speaker 1: you want to call it that. For a disease in
9:37
Speaker 1: this case is the tick. Usually ticks. See the ticks.
9:41
Speaker 1: The rabbits happened to be close to the ground. The
9:43
Speaker 1: rabbits happened to pick up more ticks than most other
9:46
Speaker 1: animals out there, so they become infected with it. So
9:49
Speaker 1: that if you catch your rabbit, and you skin a rabbit,
9:51
Speaker 1: you touch your rabbit, you run over to the loan
9:53
Speaker 1: moow whatever. You're either gonna have contact with the skin,
9:56
Speaker 1: you're gonna breathe in the aerosol, or if you do
9:58
Speaker 1: cook it up and you have a it vibe during
10:00
Speaker 1: the preparation of it, you get that bacteria Franccella tolransis.
10:05
Speaker 1: You're gonna ingest it into your body and it's taken
10:07
Speaker 1: the body in somewhere or another. If it's on the skin,
10:09
Speaker 1: you'll get a like an ulcer rather nasty in the
10:14
Speaker 1: injurated ulcer. I feel an ulcera in this type if
10:18
Speaker 1: you don't have to enter through a cut. That's how
10:20
Speaker 1: it does. It's a very active little bacteria franccella and
10:24
Speaker 1: and just through a cut. And most people got cuts
10:25
Speaker 1: on the skin. You don't notice about it. And so
10:28
Speaker 1: that's the skin form, which is easily easy to treat.
10:31
Speaker 1: Less easier to treat is the inhaled form. So it
10:34
Speaker 1: forms a far form of chronic pneumonia, quite nasty. And
10:39
Speaker 1: then if you eat the meat you can get a
10:41
Speaker 1: gas intestinal disease. It's a very versatile organism you find
10:45
Speaker 1: at the loathplace. But the ticket is where you go first. Okay,
10:48
Speaker 1: walk me through the life cycle of a tulering, of
10:50
Speaker 1: of a of a tuler in your bacteria. Like, so
10:53
Speaker 1: if you had a rabbit that lived like if you
10:54
Speaker 1: had a rabbit that lived in sort of isolated somehow
10:58
Speaker 1: you could isolate a rabbit from ticks. Right, So he's
11:01
Speaker 1: living a normal rabbit life, eat normal rabbit stuff, but
11:03
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, this is a magical land where he
11:06
Speaker 1: doesn't come into contact with the tick. He never gets
11:09
Speaker 1: to aremia if he's not bitten by a mosquito, because
11:12
Speaker 1: there's another way to transfer the organism and he doesn't
11:15
Speaker 1: come across mice or rats, and maybe field mice, deer
11:18
Speaker 1: mice or something like that, which you can also carry it,
11:20
Speaker 1: and the rabbits don't normally eat these things, so that's yeah,
11:23
Speaker 1: you're right if he doesn't get bitten or by a
11:26
Speaker 1: tick or mosquito and thatsn't gonna be content. Yes, he
11:29
Speaker 1: would be fertily free. Can you get rabbit? Let's say
11:35
Speaker 1: you're hanging out, a mosquito bites a rabbit, and then
11:38
Speaker 1: the mosquito bites you. That doesn't transmit to luremia, right, Uh, Well,
11:43
Speaker 1: the mosquito would have to have been bitten, have to
11:45
Speaker 1: have bitten something first, another infective rabbit or other animal
11:51
Speaker 1: to infect the rabbit doesn't come from just the mosquito
11:54
Speaker 1: or the tick. I mean it's it has to have
11:55
Speaker 1: bitten some other animals. So the reservoir, the big reserve
12:00
Speaker 1: war is the wildlife out there now. Of course, if
12:02
Speaker 1: you get it, you're not going to transfer to anybody
12:05
Speaker 1: else unless you give blood or unless somebody eat you. Cannibalism,
12:11
Speaker 1: that's very rare. But why is it known as rabbit fever?
12:15
Speaker 1: I never heard of anybody. People aren't don't exercise caution
12:19
Speaker 1: when they're cleaning squirrels out of fear of getting to aremia.
12:22
Speaker 1: Squirrels can get it too, so can the smaller rodents
12:24
Speaker 1: as well, larger animals too. In fact, they've even found
12:27
Speaker 1: it in the birds, water birds there, you know, cranes
12:32
Speaker 1: and things. And I believe there's some people who say
12:34
Speaker 1: they found it in fish too. There's an example of
12:36
Speaker 1: tularemia just in California a couple of years ago with
12:41
Speaker 1: a fish hook. Apparently the fish hook was in a
12:44
Speaker 1: fish and somebody then sort of trying to cast the
12:47
Speaker 1: hook again got caught in somebody's skin, and that was
12:51
Speaker 1: the origin of the Franciella organism. Again. Yeah, this is
12:55
Speaker 1: a very a fly tied out of rabbit here. Anythink
13:00
Speaker 1: about that? Oh I don't. I don't, fisherman, I don't
13:02
Speaker 1: like thinking about that one bit. I tie with rabbit
13:04
Speaker 1: hair all the time. I will tan my own rabbit
13:08
Speaker 1: hides to make flies. Well, the hair is not going
13:10
Speaker 1: to be a problem. It's the flesh its you gotta
13:15
Speaker 1: deal with theory, You gotta get a deal with the flesh.
13:17
Speaker 1: You get the hair. Just cooking rabbit meat kill toulremia.
13:24
Speaker 1: Do you know what you happen to know? I'll forgive
13:26
Speaker 1: you if you don't. At what temperature Tularemi gets killed? Oh,
13:29
Speaker 1: it's not free heat stable, So technically probably about hunting
13:36
Speaker 1: forty five, but I would take it up to about
13:39
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty to be on the safe side,
13:40
Speaker 1: because you can can't really be sure you're killing everything
13:42
Speaker 1: in the hundred and sixty. A lot of magic, a
13:45
Speaker 1: lot of magic when when it comes to food, A
13:47
Speaker 1: lot of magic happens around one sixty. Don't you also
13:50
Speaker 1: lose a lot of magic out of some foods. You're
13:52
Speaker 1: going to take it to one sixty, that's a given,
13:55
Speaker 1: that's a given. Take yeah, absolutely, an Elk stakes steak
13:58
Speaker 1: taken to one sixty is gonna be like shoe leather. Well, yeah,
14:02
Speaker 1: you could try. You know what's coming in now is
14:04
Speaker 1: the souvied method of cooking. Oh yeah, man, about a
14:07
Speaker 1: hundred forty but for a long time period. But that
14:11
Speaker 1: needs that needs a microbiologists to begin to say, look
14:14
Speaker 1: at you can cook with your this thing. It needs
14:16
Speaker 1: say two and a half hours to kill the bacteria off.
14:20
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think you've had have you
14:22
Speaker 1: what do you you've had tricks? Be in Yanni here,
14:25
Speaker 1: both of you have we're positive. Well now we even
14:28
Speaker 1: got t shirts and that may have been a great
14:31
Speaker 1: piece of semi raw beef at that moment. But there's
14:35
Speaker 1: a problem with it, you know, so they're taken up
14:37
Speaker 1: to the reasonable temperature or your radiating it or really
14:42
Speaker 1: freezing it, and freezing doesn't work all the time with
14:45
Speaker 1: trichinosis because some new strains now in the Arctic area.
14:48
Speaker 1: That's what I want to because so we're jumping into
14:50
Speaker 1: trick and nosis right now, we're just going we're going
14:52
Speaker 1: for well, we're struggling with with our little trick nosis problem,
14:58
Speaker 1: which really isn't that bad. It's a bad wheat, but
15:01
Speaker 1: it causes a lot of psychological harm because because you
15:05
Speaker 1: know you don't you don't have you can't like ask
15:08
Speaker 1: your body what happened to him when he had it.
15:09
Speaker 1: So it's unnerving, but in the end, in hindsight, it's
15:12
Speaker 1: not a big deal. However, it can be a big deal.
15:15
Speaker 1: You can kill you, right, it can kill you. But
15:17
Speaker 1: for most people it's it's mild and achey and joint
15:20
Speaker 1: pain and so on it but if it gets in
15:22
Speaker 1: the eye and the liver and the heart and stuff
15:24
Speaker 1: like that, it can be bad news. It can be bad.
15:27
Speaker 1: There was an outbreak in two eight in California, an
15:31
Speaker 1: outbreak outbreak, thirty nine people met to sample bear meat.
15:38
Speaker 1: Sounds about right, and all of those are the epitem beyond.
15:45
Speaker 1: So they had met for something else. Now they had
15:49
Speaker 1: a feast for bear meat, and there was some would
15:53
Speaker 1: only cooked bear meat, and the majority it's raw or
15:57
Speaker 1: semi cooked. And one of the people who had the
16:02
Speaker 1: uncooked the raw meat developed trickonosis. Really and the studies
16:06
Speaker 1: were fascinating. For example, not much meat left. I never
16:09
Speaker 1: even heard about this, didn't. I'll send you the I'm
16:13
Speaker 1: not calling the whole thing. But they took, they took,
16:19
Speaker 1: they all the meat they had left with some of
16:20
Speaker 1: the claw, the paw of the bear. And for one
16:24
Speaker 1: gram of that meat, they isolated seventies six or seventy
16:28
Speaker 1: eight trickin nosis worms and one gram that's about the
16:31
Speaker 1: size of a garbonza, you know, a chickpea. Now that's
16:35
Speaker 1: not the preddictive site for that particular organism. It really
16:39
Speaker 1: gets to the massata muscles, you know, the big chewing muscles,
16:42
Speaker 1: to the diaphragm and the heart, all those wondering parasites,
16:46
Speaker 1: that's where they go. So this is gonna tell you
16:49
Speaker 1: can I get can I one up you real quick.
16:50
Speaker 1: What's that? I had to send a chunk of my
16:53
Speaker 1: bear meat down to the CDC in Atlanta. It was well,
17:00
Speaker 1: I remember I calculated it out to the pound. There
17:03
Speaker 1: was six hundred thousand larva per pounds. Yeah, maybe that
17:09
Speaker 1: one open. Remember now remember now take it, take it
17:11
Speaker 1: next step. All of those larvae are going to get
17:14
Speaker 1: into your gut and your stomach acid is going to dissolve,
17:18
Speaker 1: the little cyst comes out. So now they're free swimming.
17:21
Speaker 1: The females about two millimeters, the males about one millivata,
17:25
Speaker 1: very very tiny in your gut. They're mating and each
17:29
Speaker 1: pair now produced thousands of larvae. To the microscopic they
17:35
Speaker 1: enter through the gut wall, through the blood supply, and
17:38
Speaker 1: go around the body. So by that time you've got
17:41
Speaker 1: billions of of larvae in you. Now from the hundreds
17:47
Speaker 1: of thousands that you eight, we're talking astronomical numbers here
17:51
Speaker 1: do they is? The heart is your heart and diaphragm
17:56
Speaker 1: and tongue. Did you say tongue when you talk about
17:59
Speaker 1: hot spots, tangi is one especially for tape worm. It's not,
18:04
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not a trick. Hot spot not a
18:06
Speaker 1: trick hospot nos this hot and to die from and tongue. Okay,
18:10
Speaker 1: is it is it that they Is it that it's
18:13
Speaker 1: a good habitat for them and they survive there? Or
18:16
Speaker 1: do they know where to go there? They don't know
18:19
Speaker 1: to go there. It's just the ones that go there
18:21
Speaker 1: do well. The circulation system runs into these tissues first.
18:25
Speaker 1: I mean, the het muscle needs a lot of fresh
18:27
Speaker 1: oxygenated blood, so it looked right from the lung. It
18:30
Speaker 1: gets into the heart the hot wall and so you're
18:34
Speaker 1: seeing are But I don't know why the mass of
18:36
Speaker 1: the muscle what a chewing muscles would be. It is
18:40
Speaker 1: the case for quite a few parasites wondering pasts, right, Yeah,
18:44
Speaker 1: you know where we felt the pain? Back me up,
18:47
Speaker 1: beyond me. But you're you're what am I touching right now?
18:51
Speaker 1: Nascapula No? No, shoulder blade? No, the muscle that like
18:55
Speaker 1: connects you shoulders you traps, yeah, don't not The only
19:02
Speaker 1: people can't hear you not? Yeah, I would agree with traps.
19:05
Speaker 1: Your calves yeah, the calves yeah, and then lower back
19:09
Speaker 1: yeah right, bat me up. That's where you could feel
19:14
Speaker 1: the pain. But I don't know that that really means
19:16
Speaker 1: that that's where the bugs are going. The worms, just
19:18
Speaker 1: the ones that are making their presence felt on You see. Now,
19:22
Speaker 1: if we we only had like basically a shishkbab type
19:27
Speaker 1: chunk each, that's how much I had, might have had
19:31
Speaker 1: more a couple of so we might have not made
19:33
Speaker 1: it to hundreds of thousands because we don't. We ate
19:37
Speaker 1: very little that day, just on the plane, coming down
19:39
Speaker 1: to their interest, I was looking at the range of
19:42
Speaker 1: meat bear meat that was eaten by these thirty nine people.
19:45
Speaker 1: They ranged from about a half an ounce to one
19:49
Speaker 1: person at twenty eight ounces. That person really liked that. Rob.
19:55
Speaker 1: If you figure it out to the next cycle of life,
19:57
Speaker 1: there into billions and billions of these things. Yeah, it's
20:00
Speaker 1: that guy was going. So what happens is that it
20:02
Speaker 1: forms an inflammation, but instead of an inflammation being a
20:06
Speaker 1: little local inflammation, the entire body is one massive inflammation.
20:11
Speaker 1: So you're your your your your chemicals that respond to
20:15
Speaker 1: you know, the cytokinds respond to all the inflammation by
20:19
Speaker 1: just making you it just a febrile, massive jelly, and
20:23
Speaker 1: so that do you kind of keep up with a
20:24
Speaker 1: blood pressure and the hot wood stop. That's what kills you,
20:27
Speaker 1: but it's unusual to be that amount. You know. What
20:29
Speaker 1: piqued my interest there is earlier I was saying, I
20:33
Speaker 1: think before we started record, I was saying that I
20:35
Speaker 1: had occasion to interact with the state epidemiologist in Alaska
20:40
Speaker 1: while this is going on, and we got to chat
20:43
Speaker 1: and he mentioned um that that there's sort of a
20:50
Speaker 1: famous version of Trigg analysis, or people always like, like
20:55
Speaker 1: I might mutilate the word like trick analysis. Spiralis trick
20:59
Speaker 1: anellos spirals for ellis, that's the regional one, okay. And
21:02
Speaker 1: he was saying, there are there are a variety of these.
21:05
Speaker 1: Everybody always says that one, but there's a variety of these.
21:08
Speaker 1: And he suggested that there are freeze tolerant specimens in
21:13
Speaker 1: the North, and even told me about a case he
21:18
Speaker 1: worked on where some people had eaten raw walrus that
21:24
Speaker 1: had been frozen for the winter and they thought it
21:27
Speaker 1: was safe because it was frozen, but in fact he
21:30
Speaker 1: he feels that they tracked the infection to raw walrus.
21:35
Speaker 1: What surprised me about this was two things. One that
21:38
Speaker 1: a walrus would be a potential carrier of trigger olysis.
21:41
Speaker 1: I don't know why that surprised me. But it seems
21:43
Speaker 1: unusual and um and too that that freezing doesn't kill it,
21:48
Speaker 1: because you often will see people say, uh, cook it
21:53
Speaker 1: or freeze it for a long time. And he was
21:54
Speaker 1: saying that he's a proponent of cooking, not trusting the
21:59
Speaker 1: freezing cooking. Or if you really want to be bold,
22:01
Speaker 1: radiation we'll do it as well. Cobalt sixty will do it.
22:04
Speaker 1: You won't hurt the meat, it'll kill if everything is
22:06
Speaker 1: in it. Is that something? Is that something people do? Oh? Yeah,
22:10
Speaker 1: we do it with the spices. For example. People don't
22:12
Speaker 1: know that the spices you behind the supermarket radiated really
22:17
Speaker 1: for food safety, for food safety, and in fact the
22:21
Speaker 1: public is would be up in arms about it because
22:23
Speaker 1: they think they're gonna turn you know, luminous at night
22:26
Speaker 1: or something, but it's not. Many countries do it for
22:29
Speaker 1: things like onions. You don't get onions sprouting, or potatoes
22:32
Speaker 1: won't sprout with cobalt sixty. Well, there's a number of
22:36
Speaker 1: isotopes you can do. You smells like an X ray machine,
22:39
Speaker 1: you know. You you put the food little packages, you
22:40
Speaker 1: run into the machine. Radio it comes at the other end.
22:43
Speaker 1: There's nothing, nothing, no radioactivity in the food. But just
22:47
Speaker 1: like the X ray has gone through your foot when
22:50
Speaker 1: you're x ray your foot, it's gone through the food,
22:52
Speaker 1: zapped everything alive in there. You can't do it with
22:55
Speaker 1: things like bean sprouts because you want the beans sprout
22:58
Speaker 1: to be alive, if you want the seats still to
23:01
Speaker 1: grow into you can't do something like that. But if
23:03
Speaker 1: you want to kill if anything it's alive and there
23:05
Speaker 1: you were irradiated, it's wonderful. It's done for the armed
23:08
Speaker 1: services all over the world. So you could take bear meat,
23:11
Speaker 1: run it through that whatever contraption they do this in,
23:14
Speaker 1: and then just have like they would have to figure
23:16
Speaker 1: out for that particular tricknella exactly how much the what
23:21
Speaker 1: the intensity would be for that. Once you've got that
23:23
Speaker 1: soulted out, that's and you'll be safest. Houses Then you
23:27
Speaker 1: can eat all the role bay meat you want to take.
23:29
Speaker 1: Taste wouldn't change, would you be safe. So one thing
23:32
Speaker 1: we've been talking about lately, UM, because we tend to
23:35
Speaker 1: talk about trick mills is probably too much, UM, is
23:38
Speaker 1: that you mentioned su vied cooking and uh and I've
23:44
Speaker 1: read and people have emailed me various things where people
23:48
Speaker 1: are like, oh, you can you know, instead of hitting
23:51
Speaker 1: one sixty or one sixty five, you can actually kill
23:54
Speaker 1: it at one forty for a pro long period of time.
23:57
Speaker 1: Is this sort of is information like that? And and
24:00
Speaker 1: and if you don't know the exact numbers, that's fine,
24:02
Speaker 1: I'm not asking to give them. But is information like that,
24:06
Speaker 1: uh set forth in some sort of official way around
24:11
Speaker 1: suvied and trigger nosis? Like are you aware of someone
24:14
Speaker 1: formally saying yes, six hours at one forty absolutely safe?
24:24
Speaker 1: Is that? Are these numbers still a little bit elusive?
24:26
Speaker 1: They're very elusive. I don't know the answer for trickonosis.
24:29
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody does. But we were talking about
24:32
Speaker 1: and I think it's a good way to go. They
24:34
Speaker 1: it's the whole process is new. It's in the last
24:36
Speaker 1: what a couple of decades of people have been interested
24:39
Speaker 1: in doing this and so, but you need to be
24:42
Speaker 1: look at every single one of those organisms. There's about
24:44
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty agents to give you foodball and disease,
24:49
Speaker 1: and each one of them would have to be assessed
24:50
Speaker 1: because you're right at the margin, you're right at the edge,
24:54
Speaker 1: I mean a minute to a minute or two too
24:56
Speaker 1: short in time and you can have problems a degree
25:01
Speaker 1: or to too low in temperature. You're right on the
25:03
Speaker 1: edge of the thing. So you've got to be really
25:05
Speaker 1: sure about the science of it. But once it's down
25:07
Speaker 1: for all of these agents, then then people stick to it.
25:11
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be okay. And then maybe somewhere
25:13
Speaker 1: in their trick and Ella will be tested for that
25:15
Speaker 1: as well. This is kind of an obvious question. Well, no,
25:18
Speaker 1: it's not, because I only know the answer to it.
25:20
Speaker 1: When pick any kind of thing. That pick your favorite
25:24
Speaker 1: food born pathogen that dies at a certain temperature, what
25:29
Speaker 1: happens that? Like, like why does it die? What happens
25:32
Speaker 1: to some of these things like you boil water to
25:36
Speaker 1: sanitize water, whatever, like, like what goes on with the
25:39
Speaker 1: organism that makes it that it can't get you sick anymore.
25:43
Speaker 1: The main thing is protein. He's taking egg. You put
25:45
Speaker 1: in the frying pan, it's still moving around. Heat it
25:48
Speaker 1: up to it about a hundred and forty three f
25:51
Speaker 1: whether the temperature is I'm converting from celsius to ferrenheit,
25:54
Speaker 1: and suddenly the protein coagulates, becomes white, protein becomes a solid,
25:58
Speaker 1: doesn't function as a protein. You can all kinds of
26:01
Speaker 1: protein chains act separating and connecting. Again, there was proteins
26:05
Speaker 1: useless and we're all made a protein. So mainly it's
26:08
Speaker 1: the heat that's disabling the protein every single time, and
26:11
Speaker 1: that whatever the protein is, you're trying to disabled it
26:14
Speaker 1: temporarily slightly different for each one. This is why mad
26:18
Speaker 1: how disease was a mystery, because we found out that's
26:20
Speaker 1: a protein. It's a pure protein, it's not even a
26:23
Speaker 1: virus or anything. But but we find that you can
26:27
Speaker 1: heat that to two temperatures that no other protein on
26:32
Speaker 1: the planet would survive. And yet this thing does heard about.
26:36
Speaker 1: I heard about some politician it was said, and it
26:39
Speaker 1: was a private meeting on one name who said it.
26:41
Speaker 1: But he had said, you talk about c w D
26:45
Speaker 1: wasn't an issue because we'll just everybody had to cook
26:48
Speaker 1: their dear meat more. And some guys like you got
26:51
Speaker 1: to cook your dear meat the four thousand degrees you
26:54
Speaker 1: gotta ash it. That's what. In fact, we've got examples
26:59
Speaker 1: of of probes used by a brain surgeon just to
27:03
Speaker 1: explore your brain. And for somebody who was suffering from
27:09
Speaker 1: early stages of courts for Yakupt disease, the human c
27:12
Speaker 1: g D and that's all had happened is probe stainless
27:15
Speaker 1: steel probe just went into the brain and then they
27:18
Speaker 1: sewed him back up and he's fine. The probe was
27:21
Speaker 1: was went through hospital sterilization three separate times. You know
27:25
Speaker 1: that's a fifteen pounds pressure. That's a hundred twenty one
27:29
Speaker 1: See that's two hundred and fifty f right for fifteen minutes.
27:33
Speaker 1: It'll kill off everything on the planet. This was still
27:35
Speaker 1: infective after three of those cycles. Animals you could give
27:39
Speaker 1: the c you know that can mac out disease to
27:42
Speaker 1: hamsters three times, So you can't destroy this thing. Uh, Sam,
27:48
Speaker 1: are very own special? Sam Longering, explain, how are you
27:51
Speaker 1: leaving chickenhalysis? Yeah, I have I can't leave chuck have that. Man.
27:57
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to move through a lot of sicknesses.
27:59
Speaker 1: But I want to we we got it in twenty thirteen,
28:03
Speaker 1: I believe. So now I have billions of cysts and
28:06
Speaker 1: some of my major muscle groups. What's uh, After a while,
28:13
Speaker 1: if nobody eats you, right, they tend to calcify, they
28:17
Speaker 1: tend to become non viable. So even if somebody would
28:21
Speaker 1: take a lump out of your your your calf muscles,
28:23
Speaker 1: they wouldn't suffer from it. At what point by now?
28:27
Speaker 1: I think it varies quite a bit. There's been some
28:30
Speaker 1: work downe in animals because you can't really experiment on
28:33
Speaker 1: humans too much. It worked on animals, and I think
28:35
Speaker 1: it begins to a year or two and they're pretty
28:38
Speaker 1: much sure it's gone. Oh that's it. Yeah, man, it's
28:41
Speaker 1: just I've been thinking to myself as trick. Pause. But
28:44
Speaker 1: you may get exceptions to the rule in nature. Don't
28:47
Speaker 1: underestimate modern nature. That was exceptions that somebody's going to
28:50
Speaker 1: keep them alive longer. You know what passes along to
28:53
Speaker 1: your colleagues. Um, we know our infection date, Like we
28:57
Speaker 1: can tell you the day, like the day we got
29:01
Speaker 1: that we ingested the meat, and when did you first
29:03
Speaker 1: have the symptoms? A month later, a month later, we
29:06
Speaker 1: can tell you the day. We we have to dig around,
29:08
Speaker 1: we could get you to the day. We can tell
29:09
Speaker 1: you the day we ingested the meat. We could tell
29:11
Speaker 1: you the day that we had the onset of symptoms.
29:15
Speaker 1: And the first symptoms were not like the lot of
29:17
Speaker 1: symptoms were they know we have. We didn't have first symptoms.
29:21
Speaker 1: You know, it evolved. I first started thinking that. I
29:24
Speaker 1: first started feeling like I had like uh, just like
29:27
Speaker 1: just but everything happened at the month into it. A
29:31
Speaker 1: month into it, no, nothing happened, and four of us
29:33
Speaker 1: got sick. Nothing happened to any of us until a
29:36
Speaker 1: month later, and then we like simultaneously had There was
29:39
Speaker 1: some common themes, some variants from person to person, but
29:42
Speaker 1: some strong common themes of muscle fatigue, and then we
29:44
Speaker 1: all got we all got better pretty quick, and then
29:47
Speaker 1: we know, like so we were like a CDC reported case.
29:51
Speaker 1: They had the meat point being if you were talking
29:53
Speaker 1: to any colleagues and they want to do a biopsy, um,
29:59
Speaker 1: app would love to do it. If someone wanted to
30:02
Speaker 1: check where they got a known infection date and they
30:05
Speaker 1: wanted to see what's going on inside my calves or whatever,
30:07
Speaker 1: I would love to do a biopsy. I'd give them
30:09
Speaker 1: a chunk of myself too. Yeah, me and Yanny. Well
30:11
Speaker 1: the need is say about the point one of Grahams
30:14
Speaker 1: would love to do it. If you ever run into
30:16
Speaker 1: if you're ever at a conference and run into someone
30:18
Speaker 1: who's interesting, trick, well, the only you after about half
30:21
Speaker 1: a month to three weeks, you get gas intestinal upset. Yeah,
30:26
Speaker 1: and then it goes away a little bit. And then
30:28
Speaker 1: once the little larva begin to spread throughout the system,
30:31
Speaker 1: that's about a month. And then you begin a month
30:33
Speaker 1: or two and you begin to get the muscle aches
30:35
Speaker 1: and pains, joint pains and so on. Yeah, but you
30:37
Speaker 1: could just get like the gastro intestinal upset. You know,
30:41
Speaker 1: that just happens for a thousand reasons, right, So that
30:44
Speaker 1: might you might not didn't even know that. Yeah, we
30:46
Speaker 1: all might even had didn't pay attention to it, like
30:48
Speaker 1: you get like, you know whatever, you have a bad day,
30:51
Speaker 1: and um, but it wasn't the thing that really a
30:53
Speaker 1: month later is when we really started texting me to
30:55
Speaker 1: take your blood as well. I do a blood test.
30:57
Speaker 1: They're looking for prology, look for antigen to this particular
31:00
Speaker 1: parasite and also for what they call EA cinephilia. And
31:03
Speaker 1: I was looking for a certain kind of white blood
31:04
Speaker 1: cell that when you have a parasite, it's suddenly they're
31:07
Speaker 1: in vast numbers. It's not normally they're in vast numbers.
31:10
Speaker 1: Parasites trigger the cinephiles in your blood. There's a lot
31:13
Speaker 1: of blood work can be done as well as biopsies
31:15
Speaker 1: in order to tell that something's going on. Okay, go
31:19
Speaker 1: on more. No, that's that's what I'm happy. What I
31:22
Speaker 1: wanted to hear. Okay, Sam, explain the work you were
31:25
Speaker 1: doing that led us to get to talking about our
31:30
Speaker 1: guests too. Yeah, I was. Um. Guy used to work
31:37
Speaker 1: for Lantania back Country Hunters and Anglers taught me a
31:40
Speaker 1: trick where we're out fishing and you catch a trout
31:44
Speaker 1: is kind of a a trick. It's not really a trick. Um.
31:47
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nice. Um, No, we're just out fishing. You
31:52
Speaker 1: catch a trout and chop it up and put in
31:53
Speaker 1: a bunch of lime juice and holpenos and parsley and
31:57
Speaker 1: eat it with chips afterwards, and just it is vicha. Um,
32:04
Speaker 1: that's that's what we call it. But everybody freaks out
32:09
Speaker 1: every time you talk about that. And then you wrote
32:11
Speaker 1: an article about it. Yeah, well I wrote an article
32:12
Speaker 1: about it several years ago. We we published a recipe
32:15
Speaker 1: for it in that country journal when I was there,
32:18
Speaker 1: and we got that. We got a lot of letters saying, oh,
32:21
Speaker 1: you shouldn't tell people to do that. It's so dangerous.
32:23
Speaker 1: Fresh we can't eat freshwater fish raw like across the board.
32:26
Speaker 1: You can't eat freshwater fish raw, and so and we
32:30
Speaker 1: did it again this spring. I posted some pictures of
32:33
Speaker 1: it and people freaked out again, and so I was like, Okay,
32:35
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look into this because you're not dead. I'm
32:37
Speaker 1: surprised I'm not dead too, especially with what you read online.
32:40
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a there was one article from
32:43
Speaker 1: Vice News that the headline was like, eating freshwater fish
32:46
Speaker 1: will kill you. Dude, that's go for all my news
32:48
Speaker 1: about food, all my wild game information. It's bullet bulletproof, bulletproof,
32:55
Speaker 1: and they're not trying to scare you at all. Um.
32:57
Speaker 1: So I started looking into it, and the surface level
33:01
Speaker 1: review of it corroborated what everyone had said that pretty
33:05
Speaker 1: much anywhere you look, people are gonna say freshwater fish
33:09
Speaker 1: is not okay to eat raw. But I kept digging
33:12
Speaker 1: and kept digging and kept digging and found Tim. One
33:16
Speaker 1: of Tim's responses on this website Cora about about freshwater fish,
33:21
Speaker 1: and he said almost the opposite thing, that there are
33:24
Speaker 1: much more problems with marine fish than there are with
33:29
Speaker 1: freshwater fish. And uh so I reached out through a
33:34
Speaker 1: number of different mechanisms. Is he not good about getting
33:37
Speaker 1: back to people? No, he was, I was just on deadline,
33:40
Speaker 1: yelled at him right now, no, no, And and then
33:43
Speaker 1: we had a great conversation with about that, and he
33:47
Speaker 1: and and someone as esteemed in his professions him told
33:51
Speaker 1: me the exact opposite thing from whatever everybody told me
33:55
Speaker 1: what I was reading online, and made me feel really
33:57
Speaker 1: good about eating freshwater fish raw and really sketched out
34:01
Speaker 1: about sushi. And and then I told I told you
34:05
Speaker 1: that this guy's a knows a lot about food born illnesses.
34:09
Speaker 1: And we talked about trichinosis and tulimia and a bunch
34:14
Speaker 1: of things, and I thought he'd be a great podcast guest. Yeah,
34:16
Speaker 1: so I wanna we can take turns. I want to
34:19
Speaker 1: ask about specific things that like that I hear about
34:22
Speaker 1: fish okay uh In southeast Alaska, it's commonly held is
34:30
Speaker 1: a commonly held belief. Go ahead and eat anything, any
34:35
Speaker 1: of the fish raw, but one dacent eat a raw salmon,
34:41
Speaker 1: the worst being a raw king salmon, because you'll get
34:46
Speaker 1: worms and be all sick you're buying that. And that
34:50
Speaker 1: the halibut worms don't worry about the worms that proliferate
34:54
Speaker 1: in halibit, which I when my wife asked what they
34:56
Speaker 1: are I say, that's just part of the halib it.
34:59
Speaker 1: When I was working up there, man, the dover soul,
35:03
Speaker 1: the and flounder would be bumpy with those worms. Yeah,
35:07
Speaker 1: it's okay. Let's let's look at marine worms first. Get
35:09
Speaker 1: them out of the way. Um. There are many nematodes
35:13
Speaker 1: a little roundworms, sometimes some bigger than others, that affect
35:17
Speaker 1: marine fish. Some sometimes people call him a cod worm,
35:20
Speaker 1: and they belong to the genus like cedar terra nova
35:24
Speaker 1: and the sakis for kanema. These are the worms, and
35:28
Speaker 1: we've all eaten them by the hundreds, not even knowing it,
35:31
Speaker 1: because normally the fish we buy in the soupmarkets frozen
35:35
Speaker 1: or we've cooked it. But they only occur in marine fish.
35:40
Speaker 1: They go through a cycle. It varies a little bit.
35:43
Speaker 1: They go through the sort of seals and then back
35:45
Speaker 1: into fish and then they're like the adults on the
35:48
Speaker 1: lava adult and the lava. Uh. If we eat raw
35:53
Speaker 1: marine fish, there is a chance. It's not very common,
35:56
Speaker 1: but it is a chance that you can ingest one
35:59
Speaker 1: of these worms. Let's all. An anisaki is one of
36:01
Speaker 1: the common. One forms a little coil up a little
36:03
Speaker 1: bit bigger than your trigonosis coil, and if it's raw,
36:07
Speaker 1: you can eat it and it will come out of
36:09
Speaker 1: this little cyst. It'll wonder what the hell is going on.
36:12
Speaker 1: It'll start to penetrate through the wall of your intestine.
36:16
Speaker 1: It'll wander around your guts for a while and then die.
36:20
Speaker 1: In other words, we cannot be the the definitive host
36:24
Speaker 1: for that. It's looking for a seal and we're not
36:26
Speaker 1: a seal, so it will die en route. It can
36:30
Speaker 1: do a little bits of damage, It can cause a
36:32
Speaker 1: little bits of pain. It can even in the rare cases,
36:35
Speaker 1: set up a peritonitis and inflammation of the gut or
36:38
Speaker 1: even appendicitis for example, just because it's it's poking its
36:41
Speaker 1: way into the wrong area. But it will die. It
36:44
Speaker 1: it's called a visceral lava migrants a VLM by that
36:47
Speaker 1: by that stage, so you're not gonna all of a
36:49
Speaker 1: sudden like puke up a bunch of these things. It's
36:52
Speaker 1: happened in Nova Scotia and Northern Canada. A bunch of
36:55
Speaker 1: people had a fire at the beach. They gather, they gather,
37:00
Speaker 1: the eat raw, and they have a a lot of fish
37:01
Speaker 1: they eat raw. And then after they went to the tent.
37:04
Speaker 1: One of the women's coughing and upcomes these worms, a
37:08
Speaker 1: little worms little but at that time they uncold themselves.
37:10
Speaker 1: They're about a sentiment which they but they hadn't reproduced
37:13
Speaker 1: in her. No, no, no, they can't. Just ingest they can't.
37:16
Speaker 1: And is that because it's because their ultimate host is
37:19
Speaker 1: is like a saltwater biomes, it's a it's a marine mammals.
37:23
Speaker 1: The yeah, so that so, but we have our our
37:26
Speaker 1: system is more fresh water, and they can't. I was
37:29
Speaker 1: just no, just it's it's very particular proteins that these
37:33
Speaker 1: parasites want, and we don't have the seals protein. Looking
37:36
Speaker 1: at the whales and seals and walls, different different marine
37:39
Speaker 1: mammals with different species of worm. But that's what they're
37:41
Speaker 1: looking for between the fish on the mammal. Where an
37:44
Speaker 1: incidental host a dead end host. Now how long? How long? Uh?
37:50
Speaker 1: You can just weave this into whatever you're gonna go
37:52
Speaker 1: into next. But you say, like he roams around and dies,
37:55
Speaker 1: how long are we talking about? Like, let's they eat
37:56
Speaker 1: a piece of raw salmon and get a worm. Oh
37:59
Speaker 1: amount of days? Because hope, But here's the thing in
38:03
Speaker 1: the outside of Japan. If you like sushi and I do,
38:08
Speaker 1: all meat has been frozen. It's a kind of an
38:11
Speaker 1: agreed way to deal with meat, especially if you live
38:15
Speaker 1: a Toronto is a thousand miles from the ocean. Here,
38:19
Speaker 1: you're a long way from the ocean. So if you're
38:20
Speaker 1: gonna get really fresh fish, you want it frozen on
38:23
Speaker 1: the fishing boat and then only thought out when it's
38:26
Speaker 1: in your sushi chef's hands, that's really fresh stuff. And
38:29
Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean it keeps fresh. It also means
38:31
Speaker 1: it's it's killed off the worm because those worms are
38:34
Speaker 1: killed off by freezing. And that's useful for a lot
38:37
Speaker 1: of people, but us and and many people have our
38:40
Speaker 1: in our audience like to get those fish ourselves. And
38:45
Speaker 1: one thing I came across in this research is that
38:47
Speaker 1: the freezing level required to kill many of these parasites
38:51
Speaker 1: is much lower than you can attain than your household
38:54
Speaker 1: freezing exactly. That'll be the case for tricking out for sure,
38:58
Speaker 1: But most of these other worms are fairly easily killed
39:01
Speaker 1: off by really, but some species of fish are vastly
39:05
Speaker 1: more wormy than others, And there are other worms. I
39:07
Speaker 1: didn't mention the much longer ones. To example, yellowtailed tuna
39:12
Speaker 1: has got some rather large worms in there. You can
39:14
Speaker 1: have you can see the very macroscopy and they can
39:17
Speaker 1: they can mess you up. No, they know they they're
39:20
Speaker 1: gonna because a dead ending you. But they are a
39:23
Speaker 1: bit objectionable to see this sort of wriggling thing like
39:25
Speaker 1: a little bit of spaghetti, you know, in the role
39:27
Speaker 1: of sushi. That But this is why most of the
39:29
Speaker 1: fish outside of Japan is frozen before it reaches I read.
39:33
Speaker 1: I read in Japan that's something like a quarter of
39:35
Speaker 1: the cases of appendicitis are are actually mistaken cases of
39:43
Speaker 1: the antisokis infection. Yeah, so people go to the hospital
39:48
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, we gotta get your appendix out
39:50
Speaker 1: and then oh no, you just have gut full of worms,
39:53
Speaker 1: sushi worms. So what sometimes what the what the surgeon
39:56
Speaker 1: sometimes does and find out it wasn't the appendix. They'll
39:58
Speaker 1: whip out the appendix anyway they got the person to
40:00
Speaker 1: open and it made it will stop the future, It doesn't,
40:03
Speaker 1: it doesn't know. Always happened like that. What happened now
40:06
Speaker 1: that's marine Paris. Well I'm not I'm not ready to
40:09
Speaker 1: move on yet. Okay, uh, if you had to rate,
40:12
Speaker 1: how me and Yanni here, uh been eating a fair
40:18
Speaker 1: bit of we're eating a fair bit of raw yellowtail,
40:22
Speaker 1: not yellow fin, but yellowtail, which is a jack. Okay,
40:26
Speaker 1: have never like right out of damn water, never frozen?
40:30
Speaker 1: Would you if you were hanging out with us? This
40:32
Speaker 1: is a seafish ocean fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ocean
40:35
Speaker 1: fish fish. So there you are, you're hanging out with us.
40:39
Speaker 1: We're like, oh my gosh, what are we caught? And
40:40
Speaker 1: we uh cut it up? Would you where would you
40:44
Speaker 1: fall on that? Would you be like, no way, bro?
40:46
Speaker 1: Or would you say the risk is so small, I
40:48
Speaker 1: will enjoy it with you? I think enjoyed with you? Okay,
40:52
Speaker 1: So we're not like stupid for having No I've eaten that.
40:54
Speaker 1: I've been to Taiwa, I don't I've had when they
40:56
Speaker 1: bring in the giant tuna and it's a ceremony. The
41:01
Speaker 1: chief chef there slices it and everybody's looking in the
41:04
Speaker 1: newspapers and television is there this this is worth ten dollars,
41:08
Speaker 1: is giant tuna and it's it's wonderful fish. So you're
41:12
Speaker 1: not because we can you know everything you know and
41:15
Speaker 1: you would still eat Yeah, because that parasite can't do
41:18
Speaker 1: any real damage to us. Really not really, you can't
41:22
Speaker 1: it wander around you a little bit and see. Especially
41:26
Speaker 1: there's some fish like hake about or merlosa sometimes called,
41:31
Speaker 1: or some monk fish for example. These are the really
41:34
Speaker 1: tasty fish or even some of the flatfish too, like
41:37
Speaker 1: you mentioned Doba sal and and these fish are sometimes
41:41
Speaker 1: very worryy. But cook them and they're fine. But if
41:45
Speaker 1: you don't cook them, it's not the end of the world.
41:47
Speaker 1: That's good to all. Yeah. Fresh water fish, freshwater fish, Okay,
41:53
Speaker 1: in this country, in this country, the only real freshwater
41:57
Speaker 1: fish are gonna worry about is is a tapeworm? Back up,
42:02
Speaker 1: because you're Canadian, I'm sorry, North America as opposed to
42:07
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. All right, we're going to North America, North America.
42:11
Speaker 1: It's a little worm. It's called the long name Developotherium latom.
42:14
Speaker 1: It's almost like it will grow up to about ten
42:16
Speaker 1: ms or ten yards long, almost the whole length of
42:18
Speaker 1: your intestine. Yeah. I put put put a story in
42:22
Speaker 1: the in my article about this about a guy who
42:24
Speaker 1: pulled five ft of of one out of his own. Yeah,
42:29
Speaker 1: this's is freshwater fish. And you know where there were
42:32
Speaker 1: a lot of been written on in the Jewish housewives
42:36
Speaker 1: would make a thing called the filter fish fish fish balls,
42:40
Speaker 1: a sort of studio wish white fish exactly, and what
42:44
Speaker 1: she would do before she boiled him in the in
42:47
Speaker 1: the in the liquid, she would taste it to make
42:50
Speaker 1: sure it's enough salt on it, either too much or
42:53
Speaker 1: an off salt adamant. But she would taste the raw fish.
42:56
Speaker 1: She was the one in the family who got this tapeworm,
42:59
Speaker 1: and the rest of the found he didn't because they
43:00
Speaker 1: added after these things were boiled and the fish stars
43:03
Speaker 1: fish to so um. This particular worm, though, is a
43:07
Speaker 1: bit objectionable, and people say, you know, ten metal, ten
43:11
Speaker 1: yards long worm, it's not going to cause much of
43:14
Speaker 1: a problem. You might have one and you see inside
43:16
Speaker 1: you now and not even know it. If you're well fed,
43:18
Speaker 1: you've got enough food to feed you, and a couple
43:20
Speaker 1: of these work so it can eat. So that worm
43:23
Speaker 1: can live for a while. I can live for a
43:25
Speaker 1: long time. But he can't reproduce. Yeah, it can reproduce you.
43:29
Speaker 1: You as you defecate, you're going to leave little what
43:32
Speaker 1: they called plots, a little tiny, little tiny bits of
43:35
Speaker 1: ribbony tape come out with your feces, and if that
43:39
Speaker 1: gets in this this particular case, gets into the water course,
43:43
Speaker 1: then there's an intermediate usually a mollusk of small snails
43:47
Speaker 1: creature is the intermediate host, and the fish eats that
43:50
Speaker 1: thing and it gets the I'm confused now because this
43:55
Speaker 1: big as the ten ten worm. Yeah you get it
44:00
Speaker 1: from what what fish? Can you get it from? Freshwater fish?
44:04
Speaker 1: But this thing doesn't exist in salt water? Well it
44:07
Speaker 1: does if the fish lives in both waters, so salmon,
44:13
Speaker 1: salmon and char. So why are you saying, Okay, if that,
44:17
Speaker 1: if this one can get in and it can live
44:19
Speaker 1: in you and it can reproduce, But it's not it's
44:23
Speaker 1: not really producing in you. It's it's it's it's fertilizing
44:27
Speaker 1: another one of the same species, and you're excreting out
44:30
Speaker 1: the bit. So you can't get it reproducing within you
44:34
Speaker 1: as a as an isolated unit. Is he But there's
44:37
Speaker 1: no detrimental effect from this thing, not really. If you
44:40
Speaker 1: are really malnourished, you know, it'd be difficult to keep
44:43
Speaker 1: a couple of these worms a going. Tape worms are
44:45
Speaker 1: not really dangerous. I mean they yeah, that's good enough. Huh. Yeah,
44:51
Speaker 1: So we got one of these likely, but yeah, salmon
44:56
Speaker 1: is one and we have had we had a we
44:58
Speaker 1: had a conference of businessmen. I think they were in
45:01
Speaker 1: northern British Columbia and if part of their conference they
45:05
Speaker 1: wanted to taste because all over the world they wanted
45:07
Speaker 1: to taste British Columbia fresh salmon. It was smoked in
45:12
Speaker 1: not in the Northwest Pacific style, you know, which is
45:15
Speaker 1: where you're hot smoking. This is the traditional cold smoking.
45:19
Speaker 1: And I think four or five of these businessmen came
45:21
Speaker 1: down with both the marine worms and the tape worm.
45:28
Speaker 1: It's about the only fish that will happen to came
45:31
Speaker 1: came down in what way? How did they know? Uh,
45:35
Speaker 1: they had a syrology that showed that they had been
45:38
Speaker 1: attacked by these little uh marine worms. But they weren't
45:42
Speaker 1: sick and didn't die. No, there's some pains. But they
45:46
Speaker 1: did have a tapeworm and that showed up as well,
45:48
Speaker 1: and eventually if the stall samples showed that it was
45:50
Speaker 1: there as well. But it's a very unusual case where
45:52
Speaker 1: you get both cans of parasite. And the only official
45:55
Speaker 1: work with is Arctic child, which is a member of
45:57
Speaker 1: the salmon family, or any salmons and it was a
46:01
Speaker 1: little well, but we haven't seen examples of that yet.
46:04
Speaker 1: We think eel would work. Just row several weeks ago
46:08
Speaker 1: when I was in Iceland, Yeah, eel. Uh. Quick little
46:12
Speaker 1: lesson in my favorite word is catagronusts. Yeah, yeah, like
46:15
Speaker 1: every nose a nadrumous fish which live in the ocean
46:19
Speaker 1: and spawn in the rivers. But eels live in the
46:21
Speaker 1: rivers and spawn in the ocean. Uh. We had a
46:25
Speaker 1: little scared at my house recently where also everybody's all
46:30
Speaker 1: excited because one of my kids had defecated out a
46:34
Speaker 1: bunch of real thin tape worms. So I went out
46:40
Speaker 1: to investigate, should be tapeworms? No what you know, what
46:43
Speaker 1: he was eating? We had put Uh, We made summer
46:47
Speaker 1: sausage and put into college and casing, and I sliced
46:51
Speaker 1: a bunch for him, and I didn't realize that he
46:52
Speaker 1: didn't know to take He didn't know to take the
46:57
Speaker 1: casing off. But it's cutting these disks and he's eating
47:01
Speaker 1: these things all day long, and he don't know how
47:04
Speaker 1: many chunks of college and sausage casing which he then
47:07
Speaker 1: passes out. You look in the bowl, it looks like
47:09
Speaker 1: I'm like, what I looked at him, and I kept
47:11
Speaker 1: looking him like what And I went and got a
47:14
Speaker 1: pair of latex gloves and I pulled them out, all
47:16
Speaker 1: these rings of college and sausage. But what you will get.
47:21
Speaker 1: And I've had them people calling up and saying that
47:23
Speaker 1: quickly come over looking the toilet, and there's somebody had
47:26
Speaker 1: been on the toilet. And there on the toilet there's
47:28
Speaker 1: a bunch of moving worms, you know, spaghetti kind of worms,
47:32
Speaker 1: and they're all they're all round worms. And then the
47:36
Speaker 1: summer about five inches long and summer about seven inches long,
47:40
Speaker 1: real worms worms And these are a scarus lumber codes.
47:44
Speaker 1: These are the round worm called the scarg Well the
47:47
Speaker 1: kids get playing in sandboxes, well that's one way of
47:51
Speaker 1: doing it. And these worms will will can plug up
47:55
Speaker 1: your intestine. Maybe they're so dense. I've taken a pig
47:58
Speaker 1: intestine and when they used to being inspect on the slaughterhouse,
48:01
Speaker 1: slice through the intestine and you can no food could
48:04
Speaker 1: really get through it because you've just cut through about
48:07
Speaker 1: twenty seven little worms at the same time, just to
48:09
Speaker 1: have to detest it. No kids for these people in
48:12
Speaker 1: a really bad way. I mean, they're not digesting any food.
48:15
Speaker 1: And they're all bloated and adematists and so on. You
48:17
Speaker 1: how do they get that? They get that through eating
48:20
Speaker 1: on the food, the the cystic eggs of this particular
48:25
Speaker 1: worm um. There was a village in Scotland going back
48:31
Speaker 1: to about nineteen thirty I think it was isolated, little
48:35
Speaker 1: village and the physician I think retired to some reason,
48:39
Speaker 1: and the new physician came along. And the first morning
48:43
Speaker 1: in the waiting room, the first patient came in and
48:45
Speaker 1: he said, how are you today? And a woman said, oh,
48:47
Speaker 1: just the usual cough coughed up a few worms, just usual,
48:50
Speaker 1: nothing much us. It turned out the whole village was
48:55
Speaker 1: was had had a Scaris worms in them, and they
48:57
Speaker 1: were seeding themselves. Why because they we're using night so oilage,
49:01
Speaker 1: you know. They were collecting sewage in their houses in
49:05
Speaker 1: buckets and putting it on the gardens and growing vegetables
49:10
Speaker 1: and so this is then we had a couple of scientists,
49:13
Speaker 1: I think they were German, who decided to experiment on themselves,
49:17
Speaker 1: good scientists, and they and they they seeded some strawberries
49:22
Speaker 1: and a strawberry patch one year with a scar As eggs,
49:26
Speaker 1: and then every year they at about a pound or
49:29
Speaker 1: so of strawberries, and every year for about five or
49:31
Speaker 1: six years, both of them got the scarish worms. So
49:35
Speaker 1: these things can live for a number of years through
49:38
Speaker 1: frost cycles. The eggs candy because they're almost really dried
49:41
Speaker 1: up like a spore. So these things are around, but
49:45
Speaker 1: normally in the food that we eat, we don't have.
49:48
Speaker 1: We know we've we found them on paper money. No kid,
49:52
Speaker 1: a coin, just y'all that my kid two days ago
49:54
Speaker 1: to stop, he had a five dollar billies run around
49:56
Speaker 1: within his mouth. Don't yeah, don't tell. I was like, man,
50:01
Speaker 1: don't put money in your mouth, and he's like why.
50:03
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't. I just understand that it's something
50:04
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to do. What did you do in
50:07
Speaker 1: the States? Just have what we have in Kinada. Plastic money, yeah,
50:13
Speaker 1: plastic money. You can put the washing different sizes though
50:16
Speaker 1: we'd like to build burn. Yeah, you put the washing machine.
50:19
Speaker 1: It'll still be in when you come out. Don't do
50:21
Speaker 1: with the iron it though, Okay, good to uh Man,
50:27
Speaker 1: good stuff. I had a thought, but I can't remember
50:29
Speaker 1: what my thought was. I got a thought. I want
50:31
Speaker 1: to hear about some of the some of the nastier
50:34
Speaker 1: worms and the flukes. I was reading about a village
50:37
Speaker 1: or community in Thailand. I believe that has an extremely
50:42
Speaker 1: high prevalence of liver cancer due to some raw fish
50:48
Speaker 1: preparation that involves live red ants. But there's some liver
50:53
Speaker 1: fluke in there, regional fishes. But I'm just just talking
50:58
Speaker 1: about Okay, they're sick for meat ants, or there's sick
51:01
Speaker 1: for meating liver flukes, liver flukes and fish that the ants.
51:05
Speaker 1: That's that's Tan gentle. That's what they thought. It was initially,
51:07
Speaker 1: Oh like, oh, you're all sick because you're eating to
51:09
Speaker 1: me ants. Yeah, well there's yeah, there's a number of things.
51:12
Speaker 1: Here's what I said. Southeast Asia just while that's why
51:15
Speaker 1: I was coming back to it. There are a number
51:17
Speaker 1: of flukes there, including Clonorcus sinensis, the Chinese liver fluke,
51:22
Speaker 1: which is a very one of the One of the
51:24
Speaker 1: intermediate hosts for this is a crab. It's a marine crab.
51:27
Speaker 1: It's called the mitten crab because the adult on its claws,
51:32
Speaker 1: it's got algae that grows just like big hairy mittens.
51:35
Speaker 1: Now I've eaten this crab when it's in Shanghai, and
51:37
Speaker 1: Hong Kong. It's the sweetest crab meat you'll ever meet.
51:40
Speaker 1: It's delicious, but you've got to cook it because it
51:45
Speaker 1: it's carrying the the larval form of the liver fluke
51:49
Speaker 1: which gets into your liver, into your bile ducts, and
51:52
Speaker 1: it can cause all kinds of problems with your liver.
51:54
Speaker 1: And because that irritation, irritation or inflammation is by definition
51:58
Speaker 1: and early form of what do you call um like
52:04
Speaker 1: promoters in cancer. If you do any kind of inflammation,
52:07
Speaker 1: it can lead to a cancel that down there another will.
52:11
Speaker 1: So this is one and the we found that fish farming,
52:13
Speaker 1: the kind of fish farming they do in the Philippines
52:16
Speaker 1: and Southeast Asia. Uh, there's a lot of liver flukes
52:19
Speaker 1: coming out of that. So you've got to cook the fish.
52:21
Speaker 1: And of course, my relatives and so on in Hong Kong,
52:24
Speaker 1: they don't like to cook. They like the freshest possible
52:27
Speaker 1: seafood and shrimps and lobsters. They will undercook it deliberately
52:32
Speaker 1: because they want that fresh, just like your bear meat.
52:34
Speaker 1: How do you how do you have relatives in Hong Kong.
52:37
Speaker 1: My uh, third wife is from Hong Kong. You've been
52:41
Speaker 1: married three times. Yes, you're still married to her? Now no, really,
52:46
Speaker 1: what are real quick We'll get back to more Tom
52:48
Speaker 1: about what do you think makes it? Uh? Why how
52:51
Speaker 1: are you so difficult to live with? Oh? I didn't know.
52:53
Speaker 1: It's I've already talked about worms, all the creepy, slimy things,
52:58
Speaker 1: you know. Oh man, that's terrible, not terrible. I mean,
53:01
Speaker 1: I'm you're you're fine and everything. I just think about
53:04
Speaker 1: like I would hate to have to you know, like
53:07
Speaker 1: my buddy Ronnie Want said, it goes. I don't want
53:09
Speaker 1: to lose half my stuff. But I have great anlows
53:13
Speaker 1: all over the world. Now you look at the positives. Uh,
53:20
Speaker 1: the philip we're talking about the Philippines. One of the
53:22
Speaker 1: more this this will you'll appreciate this story as as
53:25
Speaker 1: someone who specializes in food born pathogens. Uh. We hiked
53:28
Speaker 1: into a village in the Philippines one time, like not
53:31
Speaker 1: on the road system all you had to hike way
53:33
Speaker 1: into the mountains, um in the highlands of Luzon. And
53:39
Speaker 1: we and I slept in a house one night where
53:43
Speaker 1: the house is built on on pilings, built on stilts,
53:49
Speaker 1: and they had like portions of the house where like
53:52
Speaker 1: widely spaced planks. The reason the houses on pilings, as
53:57
Speaker 1: best I could tell, is low the house was was
54:01
Speaker 1: a pen, and the pens where they fattened dogs and pigs,
54:07
Speaker 1: and so all human waste and all food scrap just
54:11
Speaker 1: would go through the floor down to the dogs and pigs,
54:19
Speaker 1: which you then consumed. And I'm not a squeamish person.
54:23
Speaker 1: I remember having just a feeling of like this seems
54:26
Speaker 1: like a good place for me to get sick, hanging
54:29
Speaker 1: out like in this, in this proximity to to sort
54:34
Speaker 1: of like just watching like the recycling of human excrement.
54:37
Speaker 1: The parallel to that is in some areas around the
54:39
Speaker 1: coast of some kindries in Southeast Asia, the same thing
54:43
Speaker 1: with the fish fish farming, where the fish is kept
54:46
Speaker 1: in a pen right underneath the house on stilts down
54:51
Speaker 1: there about it, I mean, the pig has got an
54:55
Speaker 1: amazing elementary canal, and the pig eat tone waste and
54:59
Speaker 1: the waste from other animals as well, because it's in
55:01
Speaker 1: fact extracting the food that the original eater left behind,
55:06
Speaker 1: and the pig can use that, and the pig puts
55:09
Speaker 1: on weight because what's the term elementary canal? Elementary canal.
55:12
Speaker 1: What does that mean from their mouth to the uranus.
55:15
Speaker 1: It's your whole the whole canal. What's the word alimentary?
55:19
Speaker 1: Not elementary l A L that. What does it mean?
55:24
Speaker 1: It's that it's that canal itself. Is that that's not
55:29
Speaker 1: an adjective? Oh no, no, well it's energy for canal. Yeah,
55:32
Speaker 1: okay um, And it has an amazing one of these yeah, yeah,
55:38
Speaker 1: very effective a pig because that's because you're saying like
55:41
Speaker 1: something else can eat and pass and not absorb nutrients
55:46
Speaker 1: from them, but they can eat those droppings and pick
55:48
Speaker 1: up his like sloppy seconds every exactly exactly. So so again,
55:54
Speaker 1: if it's cooking done, probably and people aren't eating rolla
55:57
Speaker 1: polk in China are not now it's sometimes you get
56:01
Speaker 1: a lot of raw meats in the Cambodia and Vietnam,
56:05
Speaker 1: but China they cook even lettuce. They cook cook lettuce.
56:09
Speaker 1: And this is why it's pretty by the safest food
56:11
Speaker 1: to eat. He's probably done Chinese food. It's all cooked. Yeah,
56:15
Speaker 1: And this is the really the lesson with our hunting fraternity.
56:17
Speaker 1: Either boil it or bake it, or stop something biting
56:22
Speaker 1: you and wash your hands, just like Grandy told us
56:25
Speaker 1: only you know the wisdom is there. Do that you
56:28
Speaker 1: won't get ricken nosis or any of these table worms either.
56:30
Speaker 1: You know what else happened in the same Philippine village
56:32
Speaker 1: that I thought was was a cool system and it
56:36
Speaker 1: didn't make me feel like I was gonna get sick,
56:38
Speaker 1: is that they would they had terraces there in the
56:41
Speaker 1: very steep mountains, and they had terraced rice patties that
56:44
Speaker 1: they've built over thousands of years, and um their rotational
56:48
Speaker 1: system would be that they so rice and farm rice,
56:52
Speaker 1: and then when one of the patties came out of
56:56
Speaker 1: out of a rice harvest, they would do a lot
57:00
Speaker 1: be a they would do fish in it flooded and
57:03
Speaker 1: do fish in it as like a regenerative practice. Harvest
57:07
Speaker 1: the fish drained the thing out, and then do a
57:10
Speaker 1: rice crop in there. Yeah, to to fertilize though. And
57:13
Speaker 1: they're also feeding the fish as well. They've got to
57:16
Speaker 1: feed the fish. And because the fish droppings accumulate that
57:18
Speaker 1: and the remains of the food, that's the newton the
57:21
Speaker 1: nitrogen for the next couple of just a wonderful cexical thing.
57:25
Speaker 1: I mean this is it should delightfuly organic farmers. In
57:28
Speaker 1: this part of the world, they don't call it organic.
57:30
Speaker 1: In that part of the world, it's called farming. Yeah,
57:33
Speaker 1: we've often said organic from it's really the rich people
57:36
Speaker 1: showing off what they can do. It's nothing to do
57:38
Speaker 1: with the reality. Yeah, for sure, let's do toxic plasmosis
57:43
Speaker 1: because our body, you know, he's supposed to be dropping
57:45
Speaker 1: by today. M hm. One of our bodies wives and
57:49
Speaker 1: I think she was pregnant toxo plasmosis. Really, stay away
57:54
Speaker 1: from cats, in she should stay away from cats. But
57:57
Speaker 1: but you give us but you can get of meat
57:59
Speaker 1: and game meat, right, talk about this is the one
58:02
Speaker 1: of these ones. I don't even know. I don't understand
58:03
Speaker 1: what the hell it is. Okay, this is now we're
58:05
Speaker 1: leaving bacteria behind. Now we're into the area of a parasite.
58:09
Speaker 1: Parasite Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Toxoplasma gandhia I. It's not
58:14
Speaker 1: named after gandhi different and the double ie um. Do
58:20
Speaker 1: you remember when Dr Christian Barnard do you may remember
58:24
Speaker 1: you're too young, if you're old at me, you remember
58:25
Speaker 1: he was the first guy did the heart transplant in
58:28
Speaker 1: South Africa, no no recollection, and he was on the
58:31
Speaker 1: he was the first guy to perform one or home one.
58:34
Speaker 1: And so he was doing the study tour thin he
58:36
Speaker 1: was in the Harvard I think it was, and one
58:39
Speaker 1: of the New England medical schools, and all the medical
58:42
Speaker 1: students were there wanted to hear Dr Barnard talk about
58:45
Speaker 1: this first time evert howart transplant. The break came. They
58:49
Speaker 1: rushed across the road there you remember roughly what year
58:51
Speaker 1: that would have been, probably about nineteen seventy two or
58:58
Speaker 1: something like that, and they rushed across roads of little
59:00
Speaker 1: hamburger guy and they swamm sixty seven. Okay, I'm a
59:04
Speaker 1: few years later, and he couldn't keep up the hamburgers,
59:08
Speaker 1: and they kicked a quick, quick, gotta get back. So
59:10
Speaker 1: he was half hamburg I got lost. Everybody who's eating burgers,
59:15
Speaker 1: this medical student so coming to this lecture. They swarmed
59:18
Speaker 1: across the road to the hamburger seller who was quickly
59:22
Speaker 1: half cooking them and giving them to then go back
59:26
Speaker 1: in got a mad rush. It turned out that some
59:29
Speaker 1: four or five or six of these people developed a
59:32
Speaker 1: toxoplasma toxoplasmosis from the raw hamburger. It doesn't usually happen
59:37
Speaker 1: with beef. It's usually other animals, but you know, and
59:40
Speaker 1: sometimes your hamburger isn't hamburgers. Other meats as well mixed in.
59:44
Speaker 1: So that for a while became known as Bona syndrome,
59:47
Speaker 1: where the medical students developed something from meeting hamburg like
59:49
Speaker 1: back to your original question, named after the guy that
59:51
Speaker 1: performed the first heart surgery. Come on, man, come on, syndrome.
1:00:03
Speaker 1: This little parasite is. They've really recently rewritten some of
1:00:06
Speaker 1: the medical books because of this. What happened in British
1:00:09
Speaker 1: Columbia in Victoria. Let me back up a little bit.
1:00:13
Speaker 1: The main reservoir for this organism is cats, all of
1:00:17
Speaker 1: the Feeley day for a while, I know I didn't
1:00:19
Speaker 1: like cats. Well, no, like im or not, it doesn't matter.
1:00:22
Speaker 1: They carry this thing around with them and they defecate.
1:00:26
Speaker 1: And if it's if it's for example, if it's taken
1:00:30
Speaker 1: in for a human body, it doesn't normally cause anything
1:00:36
Speaker 1: too nasty. But if you're pregnant and you in the
1:00:40
Speaker 1: early stages of pregnancy, this thing can mess up your
1:00:43
Speaker 1: your barrier and it can end up with some pretty
1:00:46
Speaker 1: nasty deformitism and unfortunate things for the infant. So women
1:00:51
Speaker 1: should keep away from that. We had an outbreak in Victoria.
1:00:55
Speaker 1: You know, they beautiful capital city in Vancouver Island and
1:00:57
Speaker 1: a lot of time there. And these were outbreak of
1:01:01
Speaker 1: toxoplasmas is among people who had never had raw meat,
1:01:05
Speaker 1: never at game meat, never kept cats. Where the hell
1:01:08
Speaker 1: were they getting it from? Lunch? Story short, it was
1:01:12
Speaker 1: to boil down to the water. And the water was
1:01:16
Speaker 1: in a reservoir above the city in the highland, and
1:01:19
Speaker 1: they traced it back and the cougars, wildcats and mountain
1:01:24
Speaker 1: mountain catamounts, what do you call it in Canada, COmON cougars.
1:01:30
Speaker 1: They had toxic lazar. They were defecating around the beach
1:01:33
Speaker 1: area of the reservoir. These little things we're entering the
1:01:36
Speaker 1: water now. Victoria filters and chlorinates it water like every
1:01:41
Speaker 1: good city does. But the filtering may have let some
1:01:43
Speaker 1: of these through and the chlorine was not enough. This
1:01:46
Speaker 1: is the big thing about these things. Normal chlorine will
1:01:49
Speaker 1: kill bacteria. It won't kill these parasites. You need to
1:01:52
Speaker 1: trouble the amount of chlorine in the water that was
1:01:55
Speaker 1: getting it to now. Now, if you look in the
1:01:57
Speaker 1: Cumulical Diseases book, it said it can't be transmit to water.
1:02:01
Speaker 1: That is being contaminated by cats feces. That's really interesting.
1:02:05
Speaker 1: So the main way of getting it isn't eating dear meat.
1:02:08
Speaker 1: It can be, it can be eating very often it's
1:02:11
Speaker 1: domestic meat, but dear meat people tax plasmos is from
1:02:15
Speaker 1: domestic meat. Oh yeah, cows, the sheep, mutton, sometimes pork, deer, moose. Yep, yep.
1:02:23
Speaker 1: Does that diet a certain temperature, Oh yeah, you can
1:02:26
Speaker 1: kill obviously, it doesn't spore forms forms spores, and well
1:02:29
Speaker 1: let me talking about it now. It doesn't form spores.
1:02:32
Speaker 1: You can't kill. A normal cooking temperature will do that again.
1:02:34
Speaker 1: About a hundred and sixty again for phara yep, absolutely,
1:02:39
Speaker 1: because it's the d natures of protein. But best not
1:02:42
Speaker 1: to tangle it. But if we got pregnant with women around,
1:02:47
Speaker 1: what does uh that that should tell the interesting story
1:02:49
Speaker 1: about this too. This parasite is one of those that's
1:02:53
Speaker 1: in the study been studied um to see how it
1:02:56
Speaker 1: affects the victim he may have come across. It's it's
1:03:01
Speaker 1: almost science fiction where where mice are affected with Toxoplasma gandhi,
1:03:08
Speaker 1: they behave in a reckless way. They come out and
1:03:12
Speaker 1: they's almost like pulling faces at the cats if you
1:03:15
Speaker 1: are paint a silly picture. In other words, can you
1:03:19
Speaker 1: see the logic here? They're almost asking to be eaten
1:03:24
Speaker 1: and to regenerate their their cycle. Again, we've seen this
1:03:28
Speaker 1: in I think we've seen this in some fungus which
1:03:32
Speaker 1: we don't get North America. Claviceps would be one of
1:03:36
Speaker 1: those great grows in in China. In the Mountaineers Nepal,
1:03:41
Speaker 1: it's the fungus inoculates a lava a worm. The worm
1:03:48
Speaker 1: then does something strange. It does it cloked, It climbs
1:03:52
Speaker 1: up on a blade of grass, dies, and then the
1:03:56
Speaker 1: fungus consumes the worm and forms little boring bodies. That
1:04:01
Speaker 1: forms the sport. In other words, it yeah, it drives
1:04:04
Speaker 1: it up to a good place for dispersal. So mother
1:04:07
Speaker 1: nature is he never underestimate the power of mother nature.
1:04:11
Speaker 1: So like like Kama Kaze mice, Oh, here we go,
1:04:15
Speaker 1: that's not probably out of the right way. I started
1:04:16
Speaker 1: to write a story actually about disaffecting humans. It's like
1:04:19
Speaker 1: a fictitious story, but never got beyond the first chapter yet.
1:04:22
Speaker 1: But I may dig it up. A lot of stories
1:04:24
Speaker 1: go like that. You think you've got something good, something
1:04:26
Speaker 1: you don't really feel like you're gonna stay with it.
1:04:29
Speaker 1: Uh you guys, good on that one. Toxic plasmosis rabies.
1:04:35
Speaker 1: Do you have rabies here? I'm sure you do me.
1:04:38
Speaker 1: I mean in Montana, no doubt. I mean, are there
1:04:40
Speaker 1: places that don't have rabies? Some places more than others.
1:04:43
Speaker 1: We Ontario we have some of the highest density of
1:04:46
Speaker 1: rabies anywhere because we were surrounded by lakes and rivers
1:04:51
Speaker 1: and three two sides of triangle, so we'll need wildlife
1:04:55
Speaker 1: are in there, and think the pressure of the wildlife
1:04:57
Speaker 1: and cities and so on, so we get this. Every
1:05:00
Speaker 1: health district has got two families taking shots all the
1:05:03
Speaker 1: time rabies. Uh yeah. Let's let's start off with what
1:05:08
Speaker 1: it is. Okay, a viral disease. It's a virus, a virus,
1:05:12
Speaker 1: Lissa virus. It's They've got a number of relatives, but
1:05:16
Speaker 1: they're all deadly for all intents and purposes, fatal. Nobody survives.
1:05:22
Speaker 1: But the curious thing about it, it's one of the
1:05:24
Speaker 1: few diseases that you can still use a vaccine after
1:05:26
Speaker 1: you've been infected. Normally, that doesn't happen because in the
1:05:30
Speaker 1: old days, like not not even older, it's not that
1:05:32
Speaker 1: long ago when you got rabies. Man, it was like
1:05:34
Speaker 1: you were in trouble. Isn't that correct? Well, if you
1:05:38
Speaker 1: no treatment, you died, that's the trouble you're in. Do
1:05:42
Speaker 1: you know? Uh? Do you guys um in Canada? You
1:05:47
Speaker 1: guys probably aren't really huge into Daniel Boone? Are you
1:05:49
Speaker 1: remember Daniel Boone? The name rings about Balt Disney made
1:05:53
Speaker 1: a movie. I think that's right. But yeah, you guys
1:05:55
Speaker 1: be doing yourselves fair to get into Daniel Boone. But
1:05:59
Speaker 1: Boone was it? Uh? In one of his camps one time,
1:06:04
Speaker 1: a guy there's a bunch of guys sleeping around the
1:06:08
Speaker 1: fire in one of Boone's camps. They had just been
1:06:10
Speaker 1: in a skirmish with some Indians and they were kind
1:06:13
Speaker 1: of regrouping. But anyways, a wolf came in. It was,
1:06:18
Speaker 1: as they tell like the wolf was kind of very
1:06:19
Speaker 1: fixated on one person for whatever reason. And this guy
1:06:22
Speaker 1: got bit on the head or face. I can't remember
1:06:24
Speaker 1: where he got bit. He was sleeping, got bit on
1:06:27
Speaker 1: the head or face. Some months go by and their
1:06:31
Speaker 1: night hunting on the Clinch River, uh with they just
1:06:36
Speaker 1: drift the rivers at night with torches and the guy
1:06:38
Speaker 1: has this outbreak of hydrophobia. And goes berserk. The guy,
1:06:44
Speaker 1: his hunting partner, has actually jumped out of the canoe
1:06:47
Speaker 1: to get away from the guy who's going berserk with hydrophobia.
1:06:53
Speaker 1: He is. The episode ends, he's so afraid of he's
1:06:56
Speaker 1: gonna hurt somebody that he instructs his friends, I am up,
1:07:01
Speaker 1: and they bind him up and take him home, and
1:07:04
Speaker 1: then he has another big outbreak whatever you call it,
1:07:08
Speaker 1: and dies. From the first symptom to the death wouldn't
1:07:12
Speaker 1: be more than ten days eleven days of the most
1:07:15
Speaker 1: really always, so if they could get him home, we
1:07:18
Speaker 1: would have been within a day or two. And the story,
1:07:21
Speaker 1: as it's told is that the cart the bite healed,
1:07:26
Speaker 1: had enough time to heal before he had. They had
1:07:31
Speaker 1: enough time to heal before he had his first instance
1:07:33
Speaker 1: of like intense hydropholding. We'll always do. See, this is
1:07:37
Speaker 1: a very strange disease. You you get bitten by a
1:07:42
Speaker 1: rapid dog or a wolf or coyote or a fox
1:07:45
Speaker 1: or a bat or anything like this, the bite inoculates
1:07:50
Speaker 1: you with the virus. Now, the virus doesn't affect where
1:07:53
Speaker 1: it is. It's sometimes a bit little swelling day, but
1:07:55
Speaker 1: it soon heals up. And do you think oh, that's fine. Meanwhile,
1:07:58
Speaker 1: the virus is now working its way towards your central
1:08:01
Speaker 1: nervous system, upper spinal cord and brain especially, and it
1:08:05
Speaker 1: can take depending on where you're bitten. A bitten on
1:08:07
Speaker 1: the big toe, it can take many months, six seven months.
1:08:12
Speaker 1: Bitten on the leg or something you knee, maybe four
1:08:14
Speaker 1: or five months. Bitten around the shoulder, the neck, the face,
1:08:18
Speaker 1: maybe a few weeks shorter distance to travel. Right. Once
1:08:22
Speaker 1: it gets to the brain, then the end kephlitis starts.
1:08:27
Speaker 1: The brain inflammation starts. Also, the parotid glands, these salivary
1:08:32
Speaker 1: glands at the side, become very heavily loaded with virus
1:08:37
Speaker 1: and that's when the symptoms start. The symptoms you call
1:08:39
Speaker 1: it hydrophobia. That's what Pasteura called it. Actually they're not accurate.
1:08:43
Speaker 1: What is hydrophobia. Hydrophobia is when when the symptoms begin,
1:08:48
Speaker 1: the throat becomes extreme. You've had a strep sore throat
1:08:52
Speaker 1: will magnify that by about fifty times. The throat is
1:08:56
Speaker 1: on fire, it's closed, you can't drink anything, eat, You're
1:09:00
Speaker 1: dying of starvation. You see a glass of water you
1:09:03
Speaker 1: try and sip under the pain is unbearable, so you
1:09:06
Speaker 1: want the water, but it's the pain is all incredible.
1:09:09
Speaker 1: So this it looks like you're afraid of water. You're
1:09:11
Speaker 1: afraid of touching it because of the pain. It's nothing
1:09:14
Speaker 1: with the fear of water because the pain. But why
1:09:18
Speaker 1: was it of note to the guys? I think that
1:09:21
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, the guy that there's a
1:09:25
Speaker 1: historian that that collected up a lot of these narratives. Um,
1:09:31
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, but it was of note
1:09:33
Speaker 1: in the story that they were out on in a
1:09:35
Speaker 1: canoe on the river when the guy had an episode.
1:09:39
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with it. I mean that other than
1:09:41
Speaker 1: the fact that he might have tried to drink the
1:09:42
Speaker 1: river water, which you can do, of course, and that's
1:09:45
Speaker 1: maybe when he first felt this horrible pain. But anyone
1:09:48
Speaker 1: will do it. But you're dyeing the thirst, you're burning
1:09:50
Speaker 1: out because of the fever in the thirst, and you
1:09:52
Speaker 1: touch water and it's agony. That's why it looks like
1:09:55
Speaker 1: it's However, look at look at the beauty of this.
1:09:58
Speaker 1: You gotta look at the beauty of it, right, I
1:10:01
Speaker 1: am the giant. The saliva from the salvary glands becomes
1:10:06
Speaker 1: loaded with virus. Meanwhile, the saliva that's in your mouth.
1:10:12
Speaker 1: You can't swallow. We're always swallowing saliva there, you can't.
1:10:16
Speaker 1: It's it's plugged up. So you're you're drooling, you're foaming,
1:10:21
Speaker 1: mouthing at the mouth, and that's where the virus is.
1:10:25
Speaker 1: All right, Now, bring in the aggressive form of rabies.
1:10:28
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's a dumb form where you just sort of
1:10:30
Speaker 1: go in the corner, become a vegetable. But more often
1:10:32
Speaker 1: you become aggressive. And if it's a wild animal, it's
1:10:34
Speaker 1: got no fear of any any other thing either to
1:10:36
Speaker 1: come right, fox, right, come out of brush and give
1:10:39
Speaker 1: you a bite. You know you'll never do that, norly.
1:10:41
Speaker 1: So now you got the aggression, the bite that set
1:10:44
Speaker 1: the saliva full of virus, and it the cycle starts again.
1:10:48
Speaker 1: It's such just a perfect, you know, perfect storm. If
1:10:51
Speaker 1: you like, do squirrels carry rabies? Any animal can carry rabies,
1:10:55
Speaker 1: even found it in mice laboratory. You can inoculate any able.
1:10:58
Speaker 1: But remember they it's gonna get it from being in
1:11:01
Speaker 1: a conflict with another animal. Reason the small animals would
1:11:05
Speaker 1: die and be eaten. Usually the reason I bring that up,
1:11:07
Speaker 1: let me tell you quick something that happened to me.
1:11:09
Speaker 1: It has it has been postific squirrels. We're in a
1:11:11
Speaker 1: pool one time in uh on the end of long
1:11:16
Speaker 1: in the hamptonsmitt the Hamptons. We're in a pool and
1:11:19
Speaker 1: a squirrel comes running up. I was in there with
1:11:22
Speaker 1: my kids, our friends kids, everybody in the pool. Squirrel
1:11:26
Speaker 1: comes running up and starts running up and down the
1:11:29
Speaker 1: side of the pool frantically, kind of casing everybody out.
1:11:34
Speaker 1: Then the squirrel jumps into the pool and I think, well,
1:11:38
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's not gonna like that. But then he
1:11:41
Speaker 1: starts coming at people in the pool swimming, and I
1:11:44
Speaker 1: grabbed him up by the tail and whooped him so
1:11:48
Speaker 1: hard that it was it killed him. Do you think
1:11:50
Speaker 1: that we always warted like what his what kind of
1:11:54
Speaker 1: trip he was on could have been? This happened if
1:11:55
Speaker 1: his girls. In fact, just just a matter of about
1:11:59
Speaker 1: two or three weeks ago only there were two episodes
1:12:03
Speaker 1: with foxes, almost the same as you're saying. They're both
1:12:05
Speaker 1: in the eastern part of the United States, where in
1:12:10
Speaker 1: one case a woman was walking or jogging. I think
1:12:14
Speaker 1: it wasn't a squirrel, sorry, a fox came out undergrowth
1:12:17
Speaker 1: and went straight forward and bitter and here she is
1:12:21
Speaker 1: sort of wondering what the hell are doing in the
1:12:23
Speaker 1: neighbor's dog, I think came along and chased the squirrel
1:12:25
Speaker 1: chasty fox away and killed it, and eventually the head
1:12:28
Speaker 1: was found to be positive. Is what caused rabies in
1:12:31
Speaker 1: this in this fox, the dog dog. The dog could
1:12:35
Speaker 1: then get the shots right in that intervening period between
1:12:39
Speaker 1: the bite and going up to the brain. So the
1:12:41
Speaker 1: person who had as rabies getting back to your guy
1:12:44
Speaker 1: in the canoe, if he had bitten somebody, it's possible
1:12:47
Speaker 1: that he could have passed it on. But because humans
1:12:50
Speaker 1: don't normally get to the point point of biting other humans.
1:12:52
Speaker 1: But technically there's no reason why it wouldn't happen. Why
1:12:55
Speaker 1: are the bulk of of rabies cases? Where do they
1:13:00
Speaker 1: come from? Bats? No? No, not. You know, if you
1:13:05
Speaker 1: go to Asia, the majority is dogs, feral dogs, wild dogs,
1:13:10
Speaker 1: you know, stray dogs. In North America, it's really raccoons, uh, skunks, foxes, bats,
1:13:19
Speaker 1: that's about it. In Central America it's bats and cattle
1:13:23
Speaker 1: because you get the cattle cattle because you're looking at
1:13:26
Speaker 1: the bats that eat the drink blood vampas and they'll
1:13:30
Speaker 1: bite the cattle around the ankles. Next thing you know,
1:13:32
Speaker 1: the cow has god rabies and it doesn't. But the
1:13:37
Speaker 1: cow obviously is in is it in trouble? It can't feed,
1:13:41
Speaker 1: it doesn't pharmacistic, hasn't fed for a while. It's behaving normally.
1:13:44
Speaker 1: The vet comes and says, something stuck in its throats,
1:13:47
Speaker 1: So you know what vets do. They put the big
1:13:49
Speaker 1: long and they into the throat. Nothing in there, but
1:13:52
Speaker 1: now the vet gets bitten and the bet has to
1:13:55
Speaker 1: take the shots. The cow was rabbit, but you didn't
1:13:57
Speaker 1: think of that. Rabbit. Cow a rabbit are so any
1:14:00
Speaker 1: animal can be rare rabbit. In fact, we had we
1:14:03
Speaker 1: didn't have raccoon rabies in Ontario, in Canada until some
1:14:08
Speaker 1: bright spark brought up a semi a semi trailer from
1:14:13
Speaker 1: I think it was Georgia full of raccoons because somebody
1:14:16
Speaker 1: up there wanted to go hunting raccoons in New England,
1:14:19
Speaker 1: Maine and Vermont and they didn't have many raccoons there,
1:14:22
Speaker 1: so they said, let's bring some up from Georgia. So
1:14:24
Speaker 1: they brought up and apparently they brought up some rastas.
1:14:27
Speaker 1: So the next thing we know, they're crossing over the
1:14:30
Speaker 1: bridges into Canada we along road Brockwhville area, we're getting
1:14:34
Speaker 1: raccoon rabies appearing. So what they tried there was something
1:14:38
Speaker 1: that's now been picked up in the United States. They euthanized,
1:14:43
Speaker 1: They trapped and killed every every for one kilometers about
1:14:46
Speaker 1: a half a mile, and then they around for ten kilometers.
1:14:50
Speaker 1: It's about four miles. They dropped rabies vaccine baits in
1:14:55
Speaker 1: the form of meatball. That's where they started. It's so
1:15:00
Speaker 1: successful and now doing it in the States all over
1:15:02
Speaker 1: the place. It was like some line, you guys know
1:15:05
Speaker 1: where the line runs through the eastern US, somewhere north
1:15:07
Speaker 1: to south. I think there's like a line where they
1:15:10
Speaker 1: air dropped rabies bags either Ohio, Pennsylvania, something like that,
1:15:13
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania sticks. I can't remember where. I remember we talked
1:15:17
Speaker 1: to that that these wildlife disease specialists. Brian Richards was
1:15:22
Speaker 1: telling us about that. Yeah, all I remember is that
1:15:26
Speaker 1: it was done on the East coast. Okay, let's talk
1:15:29
Speaker 1: about bats. I finished with bats though, because some of
1:15:32
Speaker 1: my extra problem with a bat, you have an extra
1:15:35
Speaker 1: problem with bay extra problems. We think that the bats
1:15:38
Speaker 1: possibly can spread the virus as an aerosol, and that
1:15:42
Speaker 1: really gets you worried because normally you need to have
1:15:45
Speaker 1: a bite. Most physicians will say, let me see your leg,
1:15:48
Speaker 1: have you actually been bitten by the animal, and they've
1:15:50
Speaker 1: got to see a little punctchubaka or something. But with
1:15:52
Speaker 1: a bat, we have some evidence to show that the
1:15:55
Speaker 1: bat flying around the bedroom, terrifying the people in that
1:16:00
Speaker 1: us can possibly spread by by by the arizon, just
1:16:05
Speaker 1: his saliva, saliva in the air, and only that the
1:16:09
Speaker 1: bat's teeth is so needle like like it that people
1:16:13
Speaker 1: have woken up, not the cannabis states woken up. They've
1:16:16
Speaker 1: been a bat sitting on the chest somewhere. They wakes up,
1:16:19
Speaker 1: the bad flies away, and they didn't They really looked
1:16:22
Speaker 1: closely and they didn't know they could actually see a
1:16:24
Speaker 1: little tiny mark on the skin the teeth. So that's
1:16:29
Speaker 1: that's that's toff with the bat. And also last thing
1:16:31
Speaker 1: with the bat, we think it can live longer in
1:16:34
Speaker 1: its infective stage. Normally, remember about the dog or the
1:16:39
Speaker 1: other ten days maximum between the symptoms, the effective start
1:16:45
Speaker 1: time to your dad is used the five or six
1:16:47
Speaker 1: seven days less and ten ba we think can be
1:16:49
Speaker 1: longer than that. So that creates like a little extra Yeah,
1:16:54
Speaker 1: and if you and if you don't like bats, uh,
1:16:56
Speaker 1: that's okay, but look bad, bad spread size. Remember, sorry,
1:17:00
Speaker 1: I spent in two thousand three. Yeah, we thought there
1:17:02
Speaker 1: was a thing called a a civic cat. It wasn't
1:17:06
Speaker 1: a civic cat. Got it from bats in China Ebola
1:17:10
Speaker 1: from bats. Bats are hurting man, Yeah, they are with Yeah.
1:17:20
Speaker 1: My kids just went on a tour of a bat
1:17:22
Speaker 1: cave um Well Lewis and Clark Caverns, which has bats
1:17:26
Speaker 1: in it. They went on a tour and the tour
1:17:29
Speaker 1: people were curious what other caves, what all caves they've
1:17:32
Speaker 1: been in, and if you've been in another cave or
1:17:34
Speaker 1: something like that, you can go in this cave or Yeah,
1:17:38
Speaker 1: they had masks. They hadn't been in any I don't
1:17:40
Speaker 1: know if they reported it, but masks on them the cave.
1:17:43
Speaker 1: You know, I could you know, it's hard to get
1:17:45
Speaker 1: information from little kids, but I got the gist of it.
1:17:49
Speaker 1: But you know, they could have messed something up. But
1:17:51
Speaker 1: I do believe them that someone inquired about what other
1:17:54
Speaker 1: cave and they've been involved in because there's a lot
1:17:55
Speaker 1: of fungus and things that can grow in the bat
1:17:59
Speaker 1: kuana on the floor of the cave. Yeah, and that's
1:18:01
Speaker 1: what kills there's like this what's it called against sam
1:18:04
Speaker 1: white nose syndrome. But there's also some other stuff like
1:18:07
Speaker 1: like histoplasmosis, for example, which you can go in that
1:18:10
Speaker 1: another single celled like like a toxoplasma, which can be
1:18:14
Speaker 1: inhaled lung disease. Are you comfortable coming back on the
1:18:18
Speaker 1: show sometimes? Yeah, we got a lot to talk about. Well,
1:18:22
Speaker 1: because we're not gonna get through all the diseases, man,
1:18:25
Speaker 1: not even c But I want to hit like, uh,
1:18:29
Speaker 1: I think we gotta hit giardia. Okay, Yeah, let's do YARDI.
1:18:33
Speaker 1: Let's do YARDI. Okay, yeah, because that's that's very It's
1:18:37
Speaker 1: people going into the woods. They got their stirry pens,
1:18:40
Speaker 1: they've got their water filters here. Well, I have a
1:18:43
Speaker 1: friend here. Yeah, man, I have a friend who just
1:18:46
Speaker 1: got the cam Pilo bacteriosis from water drinking water out hunting. Yeah,
1:18:53
Speaker 1: let's talk about drinking water out in the woods, Okay,
1:18:56
Speaker 1: drinking on the wits Okay, So okay, Johnny would come
1:18:58
Speaker 1: into that in a big way. Um, single celled parasite. Now,
1:19:03
Speaker 1: if you look at it in the way that most
1:19:05
Speaker 1: textbooks look at it, looks like a little a little
1:19:07
Speaker 1: balloon with two big eyes. He's actually sucking discs. Sounds cute,
1:19:12
Speaker 1: It sounds really cute. It looks like a balloon with
1:19:15
Speaker 1: two big eyes, like like a pear shaped thing with
1:19:17
Speaker 1: eyes and there, but it's not eyes, not eyes, actually
1:19:20
Speaker 1: sucking discs chlorine. And if you go, a colleague of
1:19:26
Speaker 1: mine does a lot of work in the far north
1:19:28
Speaker 1: of Canada up there and research in the in the
1:19:30
Speaker 1: tunder you know what escimates are into it, and almost
1:19:35
Speaker 1: everybody has had jud i is at some point or another. Well,
1:19:39
Speaker 1: that contradicts what I've been told by people, is that
1:19:41
Speaker 1: when you get up to the Arctic slope you don't
1:19:43
Speaker 1: have it anymore. No, no, it's not true. There's all
1:19:48
Speaker 1: kinds of up there happily. Now it's a it's a
1:19:53
Speaker 1: It doesn't kill you off usually, but it causes a
1:19:56
Speaker 1: lot of chronic intestinal We've all had chronic it foul
1:20:02
Speaker 1: smelling diary and it keeps stops and stops. Oh yeah,
1:20:07
Speaker 1: and it's not continuous, but it's it's so it can
1:20:10
Speaker 1: be treated. There's a number of good anti anti parasitic preparations,
1:20:16
Speaker 1: but there's some of them was as bad as a parasite.
1:20:19
Speaker 1: My brother once said that he almost thought it was
1:20:21
Speaker 1: worth getting giardia because of the relief the medication brought.
1:20:28
Speaker 1: He was like, Giardia medicine and Tom's and acid and
1:20:33
Speaker 1: acid are like two medicines that he likes because you
1:20:36
Speaker 1: take it and all of a sudden you feel a
1:20:38
Speaker 1: lot better. And he really appreciated. It's like the logic
1:20:41
Speaker 1: hitting head against the pig wall, you know, stopping the
1:20:44
Speaker 1: joy of stopping is spreading. And it's hardly anybody is
1:20:49
Speaker 1: free of it. Hardly anybody is immune to it. It's
1:20:51
Speaker 1: gonna if you're if you're out there with the water
1:20:53
Speaker 1: has not been boiled properly, Boiling will kill it. Boiling
1:20:57
Speaker 1: it will kill it. Oh, even bringing it to the
1:21:00
Speaker 1: boiling point, I'd say a minute or two. But to
1:21:03
Speaker 1: be in the safe side at five minutes and they
1:21:06
Speaker 1: cool it down again, you're safe as anything not going
1:21:08
Speaker 1: to happen. But it goes what's to container you're gonna
1:21:10
Speaker 1: put it in, if you're gonna use it for something else.
1:21:13
Speaker 1: Wherever your hands are been I mean, you know there's
1:21:15
Speaker 1: a chain of infection going along it, and it's in
1:21:18
Speaker 1: the environment. I mean every bit of a freshwater or
1:21:21
Speaker 1: platu may pick out of the freshwater fish you've pulled
1:21:24
Speaker 1: out of the mud or something. That's what the job.
1:21:26
Speaker 1: But people but yeah, I get what you're saying, and
1:21:29
Speaker 1: I accept what you're saying. But people that get it,
1:21:33
Speaker 1: it's like you can get your toothbrush all day long
1:21:36
Speaker 1: in some creek and brush your teeth, and you know,
1:21:39
Speaker 1: anyone that dips your toothbrush and the creek usually knows not.
1:21:41
Speaker 1: They spit it all out the people to get it.
1:21:45
Speaker 1: And I've gotten it. And when I've gotten it, where
1:21:47
Speaker 1: you're able to look and be like you were drinking
1:21:50
Speaker 1: volumes of water. H I don't know that anyone that
1:21:56
Speaker 1: picked up Crypto Spiritio or Giardia, they couldn't look and
1:22:00
Speaker 1: and and figure out what like, couldn't look in and
1:22:03
Speaker 1: sort of isolated a situation where they made a stupid call,
1:22:08
Speaker 1: like do you hear of patients coming in or people
1:22:11
Speaker 1: coming in with jardine having no idea how they could
1:22:13
Speaker 1: have possibly gotten it. Haven't been camping non fishing and
1:22:19
Speaker 1: wind up with yard if you know that's that's true.
1:22:22
Speaker 1: But but going fishing is entering the great wild world
1:22:27
Speaker 1: where you are at associated with something or other there.
1:22:29
Speaker 1: I mean where you go fishing and don't have lunch
1:22:31
Speaker 1: on the bank of the of the of the river
1:22:34
Speaker 1: or the lake or something. You're gonna stop for lunch,
1:22:36
Speaker 1: or you're going to cook up some fish, and in
1:22:38
Speaker 1: so doing you've maybe brought some other stuff around. And
1:22:41
Speaker 1: it's usually I agree with you, it's it's a larger quantity.
1:22:45
Speaker 1: It's a glass of water. Other people in Milwaukee who
1:22:48
Speaker 1: had it piped through in their town system? Is that right?
1:22:52
Speaker 1: And this is this This was the biggest single outbreak
1:22:56
Speaker 1: of crypto. This is crypto now, but they're almost a
1:22:58
Speaker 1: parallel and the way they affect you in history. In
1:23:01
Speaker 1: the municipal water was applying Milwaukee and be fever right
1:23:07
Speaker 1: in town. Oh, the experts were there, and of course
1:23:09
Speaker 1: they the lab people weren't trained to look for crypto.
1:23:12
Speaker 1: They were looking for bacteria, and they did every tester
1:23:16
Speaker 1: back to under the sun. They said, we can't find
1:23:18
Speaker 1: anything in there. And eventually it was a hot summer
1:23:21
Speaker 1: day and and it was up to five sorry about
1:23:25
Speaker 1: fifty illnesses cases and something like five thousand deaths. This
1:23:31
Speaker 1: is a big outbreak. When was this surprising? You never
1:23:33
Speaker 1: heard about it? Oh, well, I can get you the
1:23:36
Speaker 1: exact date when I feel like I remember some kind
1:23:38
Speaker 1: of listeria outbreak or something like that. But that's no,
1:23:41
Speaker 1: that's there is always much smaller than that, but more deadly. Anyway,
1:23:44
Speaker 1: this particular thing, they had a big press conference and
1:23:48
Speaker 1: the reporters were there and the Commissioner for health forget
1:23:52
Speaker 1: his name, Schmidt or something like that. One of the
1:23:54
Speaker 1: reporters said, oh, doctor Schmidt, we noticed that you're not
1:23:59
Speaker 1: drinking in your water on the press table, you know,
1:24:04
Speaker 1: And he said, well, to tell the truth, a couple
1:24:07
Speaker 1: of boys in the labs think that might be something
1:24:09
Speaker 1: to do with the water, but we're not sure yet.
1:24:13
Speaker 1: Now up to that point they thought it was food.
1:24:16
Speaker 1: And so the lawyers went to town. They said, look,
1:24:18
Speaker 1: if you think it is some of you with the water,
1:24:21
Speaker 1: at least tell us and we'll boil the water until
1:24:23
Speaker 1: you find out what was going on. It was very embarrassing.
1:24:26
Speaker 1: This Yeah, I was just out of high schools. Eight
1:24:33
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people were exposed to it. Exposure was huge, yea,
1:24:37
Speaker 1: because it was coming safe Will supply, you know, drinking
1:24:40
Speaker 1: fountains school kids. Wow. Man, And again that that's a parasite.
1:24:45
Speaker 1: It resists the chlorination that you we normally apply. You
1:24:49
Speaker 1: got to have with extra special chlorine or extra special filtration.
1:24:55
Speaker 1: So back to somebody that's out camping, stop, can I
1:24:59
Speaker 1: kind of hit one more for you for you to Um,
1:25:03
Speaker 1: did you watch that documentary about that Colton, Oregon called
1:25:06
Speaker 1: Wild Wild was Wild Wild Country or Wild Country? Wild
1:25:09
Speaker 1: Wild Country, Wild Wild Country? It's it was just document
1:25:14
Speaker 1: about this cult in Oregon. And they had it where
1:25:17
Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out a way to keep everybody
1:25:18
Speaker 1: from voting on a certain day. Um, they didn't want
1:25:22
Speaker 1: the talents people to vote because they wanted to be
1:25:24
Speaker 1: able to dominate an election. So they think, like, how
1:25:26
Speaker 1: can we get what would prevent everybody from voting? And
1:25:28
Speaker 1: they feel that what would prevent everybody from voting is
1:25:30
Speaker 1: that everyone we're sick. And they experimented their experiment with variously.
1:25:34
Speaker 1: They were going into salad bars. It was like a
1:25:36
Speaker 1: popular restaurant in town. They went and tried to contaminate
1:25:38
Speaker 1: a salad bart and effectively didn't got a bunch of
1:25:40
Speaker 1: people sick. But everything they knew about so they knew
1:25:48
Speaker 1: about beaver fever, but they didn't quite know what beaver
1:25:52
Speaker 1: fever was they thought that somehow like beavers had carried
1:25:57
Speaker 1: beaver fever, and they they didn't execute on us, but
1:26:00
Speaker 1: I think they toyed with this plan to catch beavers
1:26:04
Speaker 1: and then blend the beavers up and contaminate the municipal
1:26:08
Speaker 1: water supply with blended up beavers in order to infect
1:26:14
Speaker 1: the town's people so that on election day only the
1:26:17
Speaker 1: raj Nishi's would vote. It's a great story. Anyway, Go ahead, Ynny,
1:26:21
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Take a big blender. Go get
1:26:28
Speaker 1: me a beaver and blender. And the reason I'm put
1:26:32
Speaker 1: pointing bringing up this instance because I've been there and
1:26:36
Speaker 1: I've had and I can't quite remember now what he's
1:26:39
Speaker 1: a chemical engineer, I believe, but a scientist nonetheless. And
1:26:44
Speaker 1: and when I sat there and went through pumping my
1:26:47
Speaker 1: water treating it, and I was actually using one of
1:26:50
Speaker 1: these now gene bottles just like this one. Now, I
1:26:53
Speaker 1: would put my one end right into the creek there
1:26:57
Speaker 1: the water source, and it sort of has like a
1:27:00
Speaker 1: real rough filter at that end, and it kind of
1:27:02
Speaker 1: has a float to keep it up off the bottom,
1:27:03
Speaker 1: and so you stay away from the sediment goes in.
1:27:06
Speaker 1: One t goes through the filter, and then there's sort
1:27:09
Speaker 1: of there's a ceramic filter, right, No, it wasn't a
1:27:12
Speaker 1: ceramic version. It's just the catatin the regular filter, but
1:27:16
Speaker 1: not a ceramic version. And then, uh, you put the
1:27:20
Speaker 1: little attachment that fits nice and snug on your Nalgene bottle.
1:27:23
Speaker 1: You proceed to pump away, yes, okay, with the pressure
1:27:29
Speaker 1: through a membrane. Yes, exactly. You pump it full. And
1:27:35
Speaker 1: then when it's all said done, I would take my
1:27:38
Speaker 1: water filtration system and sort of and there's you know,
1:27:42
Speaker 1: long tubes going both directions, and I would wrap it
1:27:45
Speaker 1: up and put it back into my little pouch that
1:27:47
Speaker 1: it lives in, put into my backpack, and off we go.
1:27:50
Speaker 1: And he felt that that that because I'm not keeping
1:27:56
Speaker 1: out the whole system clean, and then in the end
1:28:00
Speaker 1: I'm sort of contaminating the whole system by because that
1:28:02
Speaker 1: one end that goes into the water sources now stuck
1:28:06
Speaker 1: in a bag and you splashed little dropets of water
1:28:09
Speaker 1: in there. He's like, you know, what, if you're gonna
1:28:11
Speaker 1: do that, there's really no reason for us to sit
1:28:13
Speaker 1: here and spend all this time filtering the water. Bullshit, man,
1:28:17
Speaker 1: it's got to be some kind of parts per million
1:28:19
Speaker 1: man the whole world would have jardia. Well, there aren't
1:28:23
Speaker 1: there parts of the world that were like great percentage
1:28:26
Speaker 1: of people have it. In the in the poor areas, Yeah,
1:28:31
Speaker 1: like the north of Canada where they're living in like
1:28:33
Speaker 1: a third world area for whales and sewage will get
1:28:37
Speaker 1: a bit mixed up together. That kind of thing for sure.
1:28:40
Speaker 1: But let's just say with the water again, because you
1:28:42
Speaker 1: mentioned about water treatment systems. If you're looking for a system,
1:28:48
Speaker 1: reverse osmosis is not a bad system, but it's got
1:28:51
Speaker 1: some real problems with it. When it's working out of
1:28:54
Speaker 1: the manufacturer and it fits n s F certified to
1:28:58
Speaker 1: be one micron, it's got to be absolute says on
1:29:03
Speaker 1: it absolute one micron. Then it's been tested by the
1:29:07
Speaker 1: National Sense Sensition Foundation. It's been found not to pass
1:29:10
Speaker 1: anything great than one microphone. So you're going to keep
1:29:12
Speaker 1: out crypto and jar there viruses to right one micron.
1:29:20
Speaker 1: Even some of the bacteria will get through one microd
1:29:22
Speaker 1: But if you're just looking at these particular nasties, um
1:29:26
Speaker 1: um uh. If it says a nominal one micron, don't
1:29:31
Speaker 1: trust it that. Sometimes the scripto will get through with
1:29:35
Speaker 1: nominal it's just like approximately to go with you absolute.
1:29:39
Speaker 1: The other thing with with r OH is it works
1:29:41
Speaker 1: very well until the membrane, which is a semi permial membrane,
1:29:45
Speaker 1: until that gets even a microscopic hole in it, which
1:29:48
Speaker 1: it will do after a while. It's a it's a
1:29:49
Speaker 1: biological membrane. So yet will fungus growing in little pinholes
1:29:53
Speaker 1: in it, and there's no way to tell that with
1:29:56
Speaker 1: what is getting through is in fact contaminated. So they
1:29:59
Speaker 1: normally say use an r O filter with something downstream
1:30:04
Speaker 1: from it, like ozone or a little trop of chlorine
1:30:07
Speaker 1: or something in there as well, just to be sure
1:30:09
Speaker 1: that there's something. The same with the ultra violet light.
1:30:11
Speaker 1: You remember for a while with a little ultra violet
1:30:13
Speaker 1: light kits you could get. Now, the problem with alto
1:30:17
Speaker 1: violet is that it forms a deposit on the tube.
1:30:21
Speaker 1: You know, if you have what tube within the tube,
1:30:23
Speaker 1: if it's one of those, if you take it out
1:30:26
Speaker 1: once in a whire you don't clean the inner tube.
1:30:28
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of kind of a caking on the
1:30:30
Speaker 1: inner tube, which means that UV now doesn't reach the
1:30:34
Speaker 1: water and there's no way to tell. So what you
1:30:37
Speaker 1: you should do is either clean that inner tube rigorously
1:30:40
Speaker 1: every time, or make sure there's something downstream like chlorine
1:30:44
Speaker 1: or eidine or or something like that, or ozone which
1:30:48
Speaker 1: will polish off anything that's got by. Yeah, we're big
1:30:50
Speaker 1: stairy pen guys. Real. Yeah that's good. Yeah, that's the product. Yeah,
1:30:56
Speaker 1: runs on like a cr one battery or double as
1:31:00
Speaker 1: they both. Yeah. I like, hey, how does how does um?
1:31:07
Speaker 1: How does iodine kill stuff? Well, it's it's it's it's
1:31:14
Speaker 1: a molecule to actually element actually that when in combination
1:31:19
Speaker 1: with proteins, it's it forms another very pleasant situation. It will.
1:31:25
Speaker 1: This is why I dine was the first thing that
1:31:27
Speaker 1: you d have on. Remember when the old duff I done,
1:31:32
Speaker 1: it hurt. It was the alcohol that was in because
1:31:34
Speaker 1: it was a tinker ide. But nowadays you use your
1:31:37
Speaker 1: better dying and these other things which you can put on.
1:31:40
Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt as well. So you go for an operation,
1:31:42
Speaker 1: they put on that nice red stuff, let it dry
1:31:44
Speaker 1: and then they cut into you. But it's it's an
1:31:46
Speaker 1: iota four or an iodine complicated organic. I don't con found.
1:31:51
Speaker 1: It's just that it kills off most bacteria. Most bacteria
1:31:54
Speaker 1: can't surviving it just it's okay to like because here's
1:31:57
Speaker 1: the thing, like you know, guys in the middle, it's
1:32:00
Speaker 1: terry um. There's a lot of iodine more for water
1:32:04
Speaker 1: sand tastes in the field to use an iodine tablets
1:32:07
Speaker 1: and then they make a neutralizer the neutralizes the flavor
1:32:10
Speaker 1: of iodine. But it's it's a commonly held belief. I
1:32:13
Speaker 1: don't know if it's true or not. Like in our circles,
1:32:15
Speaker 1: is a commonly held belief that if you're spending a
1:32:19
Speaker 1: ton of time out, you shouldn't be you shouldn't be
1:32:22
Speaker 1: using iodine because you're drinking all this lot. You drinking
1:32:24
Speaker 1: too much iodine. The only place in your in the
1:32:28
Speaker 1: your body that will hang onto iodine is your thoroid gland.
1:32:34
Speaker 1: Everything and no other tissue has got to a receptive
1:32:36
Speaker 1: point forwards or anything more than that urinated. It defecated
1:32:39
Speaker 1: straight out, so you can't really do much. I believe
1:32:44
Speaker 1: there is a threshold for too much idone. It's so
1:32:47
Speaker 1: the interplace hell with the irritation in some parts of
1:32:50
Speaker 1: the system, and also can give too much in the
1:32:52
Speaker 1: thoroid gland. But it's not going to be something that's
1:32:54
Speaker 1: going to affect you too much. So if you're spending
1:32:56
Speaker 1: like you know, you spend a couple of months out
1:32:58
Speaker 1: of the year out run around the woods. It's the
1:33:00
Speaker 1: taste that most people don't like. So there's no detrimental
1:33:02
Speaker 1: there's not like I mean like again, not every day
1:33:04
Speaker 1: all day, but like a week here and there drinking
1:33:07
Speaker 1: IODI and treated water is okay. Let me talk to
1:33:10
Speaker 1: our occupational health people who are linked in with OSHA
1:33:13
Speaker 1: and Nioshan so on, just to see what the latest
1:33:16
Speaker 1: is on on the excessive idine. What he is excessive?
1:33:19
Speaker 1: I mean it's got to be several ounces of eye
1:33:21
Speaker 1: down or something. It was he just a little more.
1:33:23
Speaker 1: Let me find out that and I can I can
1:33:25
Speaker 1: afford it information to you. Yeah, when I was talking
1:33:27
Speaker 1: earlier about I got I got two more or two more?
1:33:30
Speaker 1: Like water have a salt's got eitherin in because we
1:33:33
Speaker 1: need either and they put it and in salt because
1:33:36
Speaker 1: they figured these massive mass medication. But it's the one
1:33:40
Speaker 1: thing you could guarantee everybody can have a little bit
1:33:42
Speaker 1: of salt in their year, the month, the week. Uh
1:33:46
Speaker 1: my two remaining questions on JARDI and crypton other water
1:33:50
Speaker 1: born and stuff that you get when you camp and
1:33:53
Speaker 1: back to my one point, like I've had it two
1:33:57
Speaker 1: or three times, oh him? And when when when I
1:34:02
Speaker 1: remember one time? I could take you to where I
1:34:04
Speaker 1: drank out of a creek rabbit hunting back home in
1:34:07
Speaker 1: Michigan and got real sick. And then I got it
1:34:11
Speaker 1: one time in Arizona because I did IDI and but
1:34:14
Speaker 1: I didn't want a while super thirsty, and I didn't
1:34:16
Speaker 1: want to wait for the IODI and tablet to dissolve,
1:34:18
Speaker 1: and everybody else thought it was really stupid, and I
1:34:20
Speaker 1: had some argument why I thought it was okay, got sick.
1:34:24
Speaker 1: I remember my brother him getting it real bad one
1:34:28
Speaker 1: time because we were elk hunting and we found where,
1:34:32
Speaker 1: uh where we thought we found a trickle, the original
1:34:35
Speaker 1: source where it's coming out of the ground, and he
1:34:38
Speaker 1: drank a bunch of that and we went under ten
1:34:40
Speaker 1: yards up the hill and realized that it was a
1:34:41
Speaker 1: big elk wallow and it hadn't flown through enough sand
1:34:45
Speaker 1: to filter it out. And I remember he got sick
1:34:49
Speaker 1: and went on and on and on eventually got treated.
1:34:51
Speaker 1: So like the times when we've had it and then
1:34:55
Speaker 1: we're diagnosed because of of giving a scat sample, um
1:35:00
Speaker 1: have have again, It's been these times when when you
1:35:03
Speaker 1: like get sick, you're like, oh, man, that I make
1:35:05
Speaker 1: a bad move. Remember another time a bunch of us
1:35:07
Speaker 1: got sick in Colorado. Someone had told us that some
1:35:10
Speaker 1: river was for some magical reason didn't have it. Everybody
1:35:13
Speaker 1: drank every is it really And it was just like
1:35:17
Speaker 1: all these moments where you could kind of go through
1:35:21
Speaker 1: your history over the last couple of weeks and sort
1:35:24
Speaker 1: of identify, you know, a moment where it came from
1:35:28
Speaker 1: so to Yeah, I just like driving after mainly I'm
1:35:30
Speaker 1: driving after honest's point where when I hear people talk
1:35:32
Speaker 1: about that, you know, you dip some water out of
1:35:35
Speaker 1: a creek and then you starry pen the inside of
1:35:40
Speaker 1: your bottle. How maybe you missed a little drop in
1:35:44
Speaker 1: the threads of the bottle. I don't know, man, I
1:35:46
Speaker 1: just don't. I just can't. I just feel like if
1:35:48
Speaker 1: that stuff was getting you, then everybody would be sick
1:35:50
Speaker 1: all the damn time. It's a probability game really on
1:35:53
Speaker 1: how many of these sales you take in and all
1:35:55
Speaker 1: of these things we've talked about, whether it's a tulamia
1:35:58
Speaker 1: and toxoplasma so on, there's a minimum number of cells
1:36:02
Speaker 1: you need to get ill, because some of these things
1:36:05
Speaker 1: you need half a million or speakers of million to
1:36:07
Speaker 1: get ill. Other things half a dozen will do it.
1:36:10
Speaker 1: So it already depends on what the density is in
1:36:12
Speaker 1: the water, and probably your fitness or your wellness right
1:36:16
Speaker 1: to some degree, or your immune system. Let's go with that.
1:36:18
Speaker 1: How strong humanity? For example, if you're pretty ill from
1:36:22
Speaker 1: some other underlying feature, you've got diabetes or something, maybe
1:36:25
Speaker 1: your immune system is down, you're gonna be hit much
1:36:27
Speaker 1: harder than other people. So here's here's my second question. Uh,
1:36:35
Speaker 1: did were communities or groups of First Nations people's Native
1:36:42
Speaker 1: American Native Alaskans do they eventually did they eventually develop
1:36:48
Speaker 1: a um immunity to it? And did all of their
1:36:53
Speaker 1: children have to go through a phase of having gardia?
1:36:57
Speaker 1: That is a really good question, and we've heard the
1:37:00
Speaker 1: same thing I asked about things like salmonella in Mexico,
1:37:04
Speaker 1: for example, or in Southeast Asia, where there's a lot
1:37:06
Speaker 1: of it around, but people don't seem to suffer from
1:37:09
Speaker 1: it anywhere near as much as the tourist who goes
1:37:11
Speaker 1: there and as exposed. We know that just before I
1:37:15
Speaker 1: leave salmon all a little bit we know that Salmonella typhee,
1:37:19
Speaker 1: which causes a rather strange form of salmonell we call
1:37:21
Speaker 1: typhoid fever, which is very serious. I didn't know that
1:37:24
Speaker 1: I was even connected. It's called salmonella type that particular organism.
1:37:29
Speaker 1: We haven't we've had a vaccine. I haven't been vaccinated
1:37:32
Speaker 1: for that when he used to live in the Mediterranean.
1:37:34
Speaker 1: Fact typhoid fever and paratyper so the other salmonella probably
1:37:38
Speaker 1: do we we we even think this is a there's
1:37:42
Speaker 1: a link like that, a kind of an acquired immunity
1:37:44
Speaker 1: among local people with staff lococcus areas that the staff
1:37:48
Speaker 1: toxin you get. You know that there's not an organism
1:37:51
Speaker 1: it orgain produces the toxin, and weat the toxin. Even
1:37:55
Speaker 1: that appears that some people might actually become not a
1:37:59
Speaker 1: mute into it, but tolerant of it. More tolerant of it.
1:38:02
Speaker 1: It wouldn't suffer from it. And so traveler is coming
1:38:05
Speaker 1: back from the nice North American city. Their stomach is
1:38:10
Speaker 1: used to North American supermarket food. They go and travel
1:38:12
Speaker 1: in Thailand or Philippines or something like that, and they
1:38:15
Speaker 1: suddenly really ill and the local people are eating it
1:38:18
Speaker 1: all the time. We don't. I don't know about jardias
1:38:21
Speaker 1: specifically about that, but it's such a good question. I
1:38:24
Speaker 1: want to find out to get back to you about
1:38:25
Speaker 1: that because I want to see if there's any evidence
1:38:27
Speaker 1: so far that we can become more tolerant of jardia.
1:38:31
Speaker 1: I think it's a really good bet that we do good.
1:38:34
Speaker 1: So hang on that because we're gonna wrap it up
1:38:37
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna let you go because now we have
1:38:39
Speaker 1: occasion to have you back on and provide us the
1:38:44
Speaker 1: answer about um, how Native Americans could with ardia? Good
1:38:52
Speaker 1: sounds good? Any uh? Yes? What do you guys got
1:38:55
Speaker 1: any concluders? I just want to make sure that I'm
1:38:58
Speaker 1: clear that And what my takeaway is that it is
1:39:02
Speaker 1: okay for me to go out there and eat as
1:39:04
Speaker 1: much fresh or salt water fish raw, and then we're
1:39:10
Speaker 1: really the wor he wants you to write it down
1:39:13
Speaker 1: that the worst things going to happen to me is
1:39:15
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna end up with a little worm that
1:39:17
Speaker 1: calls through my stomach and worms around for up to
1:39:20
Speaker 1: a week or so and then dies in the kind
1:39:22
Speaker 1: of fish, and we're gonna be exposed to North America. Yes,
1:39:24
Speaker 1: that's about right. To civic. There's a number of societies
1:39:30
Speaker 1: around the world you do the same thing. Oddly enough,
1:39:33
Speaker 1: they call it cooking in lime. It's because the appearance
1:39:37
Speaker 1: of the fish, you know, it looks like it's but
1:39:40
Speaker 1: it's not actually being cooked. I think that the like
1:39:43
Speaker 1: most of the like the chlorine or anything else, it's
1:39:45
Speaker 1: the time and the dose. So it's the strength of
1:39:48
Speaker 1: the lime and how long it's been in there just
1:39:52
Speaker 1: to achieve a kill off of the anything that is
1:39:54
Speaker 1: in there. But even if it wasn't much in there,
1:39:56
Speaker 1: what you're saying is still true. You're not going to
1:39:59
Speaker 1: have any serious disease. You may have some little tickle
1:40:01
Speaker 1: in the throat you make, get a little If you're
1:40:05
Speaker 1: really rare, you might get a parent ton I just
1:40:08
Speaker 1: for that's so rare that it it hits the medical
1:40:10
Speaker 1: books when it happens, So it's another big deal. It's
1:40:13
Speaker 1: rare enough to people write about it when it happens. Yeah,
1:40:15
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's a good that's a
1:40:18
Speaker 1: good measure of rarity. Yeah. It's like when someone gets
1:40:20
Speaker 1: hit by a mountain line, it makes national news. You're like,
1:40:23
Speaker 1: not many people a getting hit by mountain line that's
1:40:27
Speaker 1: a mountain line. I talk toxic blowser in this, you know, Yeah,
1:40:29
Speaker 1: that's that's another kind of mountain line problem saying what
1:40:32
Speaker 1: do you got? Oh? I mean, there's so many more
1:40:35
Speaker 1: diseases I want to talk about from this incredible I'm
1:40:38
Speaker 1: not going to. I just I just want to. I
1:40:41
Speaker 1: thought we had a chance to get through them all
1:40:42
Speaker 1: I would plow ahead. But it's got to be a TV.
1:40:45
Speaker 1: It's to be continued. Man, It's like how dukes it has?
1:40:48
Speaker 1: I understand it just and just so fascinated now, and
1:40:51
Speaker 1: I'm I'm struggling with kind of dueling emotions that like
1:40:55
Speaker 1: I feel like authorized to go eat whatever fish and
1:41:00
Speaker 1: into rob but I'm also like scared to death now
1:41:02
Speaker 1: about a bunch of other ships so that I wouldn't
1:41:05
Speaker 1: do that in Southeast Asia when I wasn't planning on it.
1:41:07
Speaker 1: Fish and crab and shrimp cook there. But I mean
1:41:11
Speaker 1: there was a thing in Hong Kong number of years
1:41:13
Speaker 1: ago where and I was with people who do that,
1:41:15
Speaker 1: who they would bring live, live shrimp to the table
1:41:20
Speaker 1: and you pick them up with the chopsticks and maybe
1:41:22
Speaker 1: you dunked them quickly into the hot soup. But there's
1:41:25
Speaker 1: still basically alive. Eat them. Yeah, there was a handful,
1:41:29
Speaker 1: not a handule. There's a place in l A. I
1:41:30
Speaker 1: went to you in the whole Special. The whole point
1:41:33
Speaker 1: there is like eating stuff that's alive. Yeah, I mean
1:41:35
Speaker 1: people eat roy, you know always. Yeah, but there was
1:41:39
Speaker 1: like there's more stuff. They're bringing all this stuff out.
1:41:41
Speaker 1: It's like the whole thing is isn't that great? And
1:41:44
Speaker 1: then a noise if you look really closely before you
1:41:46
Speaker 1: eat it, there's all kinds of little worms in there,
1:41:48
Speaker 1: but they don't cause any problem at all. Look at
1:41:51
Speaker 1: it closely. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, if you're aflated.
1:41:54
Speaker 1: Blue delar perch looked like someone Yeah, it looks like
1:41:57
Speaker 1: someone put black pepper around him already. Yeah. I don't.
1:42:01
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't tell my wife and see
1:42:02
Speaker 1: that that's a couple of hundred little worms. Make sure
1:42:05
Speaker 1: it's probably cooked. That's a parasite. No, I'm just like, yeah,
1:42:08
Speaker 1: they just look like that. And that is what they
1:42:11
Speaker 1: do is in some places in Europe and England they
1:42:14
Speaker 1: take a haddock seafish and they smoke its smoked haddock,
1:42:18
Speaker 1: but the worms now take on more of the dye
1:42:21
Speaker 1: than the fish does so at last, anybody looking at
1:42:24
Speaker 1: it and you say, oh, there's a little cold up
1:42:25
Speaker 1: because you're dark amber color and the rest of the
1:42:28
Speaker 1: fish is light amber color. She's dead. It's been properly cooked. Hey,
1:42:33
Speaker 1: you don't have a book or anything, do you. I'm
1:42:36
Speaker 1: writing a couple of things. Yeah, you know, so if
1:42:38
Speaker 1: people are listening and they want to check out, I
1:42:41
Speaker 1: mean you start, you probably published academically, right, Oh, I
1:42:44
Speaker 1: can have a good publishing. Yeah, but I do. I'm
1:42:46
Speaker 1: a writer and Cora. Now I remember tired from full
1:42:48
Speaker 1: time teaching, but I still do some teaching around it.
1:42:50
Speaker 1: So people can look up Tim sly Ryers and then
1:42:54
Speaker 1: you'll get all kinds of epidemialogist and people find your
1:42:56
Speaker 1: work and they'll read your stuff. I read a great
1:42:58
Speaker 1: deal of his writings, unreal, completely unrelated to even anything
1:43:04
Speaker 1: I was writing about. In your responses on Cora always
1:43:07
Speaker 1: always have a good tongue in cheat component that I
1:43:10
Speaker 1: enjoyed quite a bit. Well, thank you very much for
1:43:12
Speaker 1: coming on. Thank you, Steve. I'd love to have you back. Okay,
1:43:16
Speaker 1: we only got through not even like about a third
1:43:19
Speaker 1: of the things that fella could run into wet touched
1:43:23
Speaker 1: on baby ceosis Bruce Lows, I've never even heard of
1:43:26
Speaker 1: that one and a plasmosis. Stay tuned bolks were gonna
1:43:33
Speaker 1: cover a lot more diseases. It will kill you. Thanks again,
1:43:37
Speaker 1: good stuff, Leisure one