Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: The Captain Of Security Operations At MCC And His OIG Deposition (Part 8-10) (9/2/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: The Captain Of Security Operations At MCC And His OIG Deposition (Part 8-10) (9/2/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where he left off with the unnamed securities captain and
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, now what time
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: was their shift? Was it four to midnight? Answer who?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Question the people we were just talking about the evening watch.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Answer yeah, four to midnight. Question, so 4 p.m. to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: midnight at that point, if it was recognized that there
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: was no cellmate and he needed a cellmate. Could have,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: if they did contact the ops lieutenant, ops lieutenant did
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: contact you. Could have an inmate been assigned at that time,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: or would they have to wait until the next day? Answer, well,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: what I would have done if I would have known
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: right then and there that he didn't have a cellmate.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: He's already in attorney's visiting, right? Question, yep. Answer, so
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I would have went on ahead. All right, keep him
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: in attorney visiting. I would have called, guess who I
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: would have called? I would have called the AW, misredacted. Well, misredacted.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: And I would have called the warden. I would have said, hey, look,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: this guy went out the WAB today where Reyes didn't
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: come back from court. We got to vet another one.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: That's what would happen. And plus I was there at eight.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: So let's say he got released from attorney visiting and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: he didn't go back. And when they went to the,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: let's say, hey, this dude, he don't have a cellmate.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I would have been like, hold up. I would have said,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: because I got R & D staff down there, right?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Because I can't put them on suicide watch. I can't
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: put them on close supervision. So I would have said, hey,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: quarter this guy right now in R & D. Put
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a staff member on it, which would have been Fox 1.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Put them on Fox 1. Put a staff member down there.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Let me call the warden. Question, what does Fox 1 mean? Answer,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: that means R & D. That's the cell assignment, I believe.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: It would have been Fox 1. Just, I can't just
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: put him on suicide watch. Question, right. And in Fox 1,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: people monitor at all times? Answer, no. But I would
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: have had somebody monitor. I would have. Hey, put a
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: staff member down there and watch this guy until we
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: get him a cellmate. Question, okay. And you think that
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: that same day, August 9th, he would have had a
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: cellmate if he were made aware? Answer, yeah. If I
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: was made aware, he would have got a cellmate. Question, okay.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Now let's go back and say... If Redacted did know,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and didn't tell anybody, he didn't tell you, he didn't
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: tell Redacted, is he the one? He gets cut off
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: by the captain or the guard, he dropped the ball.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Question right. Answer, because again, like I told you about count,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and you made a good statement, then how did you
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: clear the count? Question, so the two people that, if so,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Redacted knew, and he didn't tell anybody that he dropped
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the ball, But at the same time, if the 4 p.m.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: count was conducted, they would have then raised the issue
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: with redacted. So there would have been two checks, right?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Answer right. Question. And if not, it would also have
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: happened at the 10 p.m. count as well. Answer right. Question.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: So if the 4 p.m. count, the 10 p.m. count
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: were both conducted, there would have been notice. Hey, no cellmate.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Bring it up to redacted. Answer correct. Question. All right.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: So if redacted didn't know, redacted didn't tell him. So
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: redacted dropped the ball. The SHU staff dropped the ball.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: It looks like. Answer. Okay. Question. All right. So before
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: we move on from that, do you want to talk
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: about anything specific to that notion? Answer. No. Question. Okay. Answer.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Can we take a break? Question. Absolutely. All right. It's
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: currently 1158 PM. This is senior special agent redacted and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I'm pausing the recording. Question, okay, the recorder is on.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It's currently Tuesday, June 15th, 2021 at 12.06 PM. We
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: just took a short eight minute break. And Mr. Redacted,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I remind you that you're under oath. Thank you very
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: much for your cooperation with this matter. And it is
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: voluntary and you can choose not to answer or leave
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: at any time. And look, I have to interject here.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: How in the hell is this voluntary? All these people
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: played a part in what happened. None of it should
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: be voluntary. Remember, it's your tax dollars that are paying
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: these people's salaries. Question. All right. So what we were
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: talking about before, before we move on, I just want
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: to go back to. So you said if redacted knew
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: he dropped the ball, if the shoe staff didn't do
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: their accounts at 4 p.m. and at 10 p.m., that's
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: when they would have next found out that Epstein was
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: without a cellmate and they would have then reported it up. Correct. Correct.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: What did we want to follow up with that? The
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: other investigator jumps in. If a notification came from court
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: that Reyes wasn't coming back, who would have gotten that notification? Answer,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the notification would have come through R & D and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: through the control center, which the control center would have
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: updated the count and sentry to reflect if the inmate
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: was physically in the institution or was still out in court.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: So it would be contingent to look at the sentry roster,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: which would be the E1 that the control center had
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: created for those counts. to find out if Reyes was
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: still on the count as physically being in the institution
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: or out at court. Question, okay, and if R &
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: D and Control did get the notification, did they have
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: to notify the SHU? Answer, yes, because the count would
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: be off. Question, if let's just say that notification came
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: between 1 p.m. and 3 p.m., who in SHU would
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: have got the notification? Answer, the OIC, which have been,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: for Daywatch, it would have been either redacted or redacted. Question,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: and what should they have done? Answer, and with that
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: one time, they would have reflected on inside of Sentry,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and also, they would have known that the inmate was
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: not physically there. And they would have had notified the
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: operations lieutenant that this guy didn't come back. So that
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: means somebody would have had to make sure that the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: institutional count was right or wrong. So in this instance,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: if redacted knew, who would have been the one that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: would have informed them Answer, that would have been, that
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: would have been either redacted or redacted, would have notified him,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: but then I also said that redacted worked in the
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: capacity of OIC, because a lot of those officers would say, oh,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I don't have the ability to log on into the program,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: so he would do double duties. Question, okay, so let's
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: say that the SHU staff that time did notify redacted.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Let's say redacted now didn't take any action, okay? Now
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: let's say that the next SHU staff comes on board.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Should they continue to report the matter up the chain? Answer, yeah. Question,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: even though the shoe that replaced them already made the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: notification that Epstein was without a cellmate and needed a
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: new one? Answer, because their count would have been off.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: And then they wouldn't have known that, you know, when
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: they brought him back from attorney visiting, that the cell
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: was empty. Question right. And I'm not specifically talking about
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the count right now. What I'm saying is, like, if
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the shoe did notify Redacted, hey, Epstein is required to
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: have a cellmate, and his cellmate's gone, we need to
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: get him a new one. Redacted now never takes any action.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Should the shoe, later that day, made the same notification to,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: in this case, to Redacted, hey, Epstein still hasn't been
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: reassigned to cellmate. Okay, so the shoe may have done
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: it right at Daywatch, and Redacted got the notification, but
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the shoe on Nightwatch... He gets interrupted by the guard.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Didn't do it. Question, didn't do it. And they should have. Answer,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: because he was in attorney visiting. So they said, oh,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: it was an empty cell. We said, okay, yeah, Epstein
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: is still in attorney visiting. Nobody would have cared about
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the celly thing because they would have thought that he
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: was still out at court. But if he didn't come
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: back by 8 that night, somebody should have said something. Question,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: now let's go even further from, now we go from
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: evening watch to now morning watch. We're on August 10th,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: where Noel and Thomas are now in there. Should have
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: they made the notification to redacted? Answer, they wouldn't have known. Question,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: all right, so they should have. He gets cut off
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: by the guard. Redacted, they would have been in the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: same unit with the assumption that all the inmates have
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: been accounted for by the previous shifts because the count
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: didn't go, wasn't bad. Question, so that's 12 a.m. and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: 3 a.m. and 5 a.m.? Answer, correct. Question, are you
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: saying they don't really need to do those counts? Answer, no, no,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is they would
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: not have known that the inmate didn't come back from
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: court if he wasn't addressed on either day, watch, or
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: evening watch. They wouldn't know. They would just can't be
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: responsible for counting what inmates was housed in that unit
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: between the hours of 12 to 5 because those are
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the three counts. question. So yeah, let's see. Those are
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the counts. Let's look. All right, so I got, it
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: looks like we got the 5, the 10, the midnight,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the 3 a.m., and the 5 a.m., and then is
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: this the rounds? Answer, yeah, that's the control. Question, the control. Answer, yeah,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: we don't want this. I'll take this. Question, okay. So
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: here are the counts from August 9th, from 4 p.m.,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: through August 10th, through 5 a.m. Now, we have reason
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: to believe that the 4 p.m., the 10 p.m., the
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: 12 a.m., the 3 a.m., and the 5 p.m., none
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: of those were conducted. Answer, okay, so you're saying that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the 4 p.m. count for August 9th was not done,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and the 10 p.m. wasn't done? Answer, and the 10,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: nor was the 12, the 3, or the 5. Now,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: is there a way to look at that if there
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: is someone, let's say because at 12, you'll notice there
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: is a discrepancy. There is one inmate, they're off by.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Control says, hey, you're off by one. Is there a
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: way to kind of look at these counts and notice,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: all right, this would have been picked up on then?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: or a way to kind of tell that these weren't
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: conducted by just looking at the documents, or noticing, if
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you know, if Reyes is gone by 1.50, he's released.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Is there a way to tell that on here? Answer,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: because I got it right here. Question, okay. Answer, this
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: is the form right there. This will tell you who
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: inmates are out of count. And that's from Small. He
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: was one of the receiving and discharging employees that was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: probably working on August 9th. So... she would know who
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: was still at the count. So that means operations lieutenant
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: didn't even sign it. That's a violation. Question, so this
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: document that you're looking at, it looks like, what is it?
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Like the third page on there? Answer, yeah. That would
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: have been because you've got right here, Clark, unassigned work assignments.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: So this inmate, Clark, this saying, he's out of court.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So now our count is minus one, but we know
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: where he is because he's still out of court. So Reyes,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: that counts. So if you went to court, Let's say
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: he was at 88. Let's just say when he went
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: out to court, him and Clark went out. We would
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: have went down to 86. But guess what? Reyes drops
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: off the count. How he got released. Question. So if
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: he was released, he gets cut off by the guard.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Form that should have come from the marshals back to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: us saying that he got released. Question. So between 10 a.m.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: count and 4 p.m. count, would there have been a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: form in there showing that he was released? Answer, there
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: should have been. Question, okay. Answer, that should have been
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: generated from the marshals because it's a transfer order. You
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: heard of a transfer order? Every time an inmate goes off,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you've got 10 that went out to court that day.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: That's the transfer order. Whatever the disposition of those inmates are, okay, boom,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: 10 went out to count, eight coming back. Okay, there are,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: where are the other two guys? Okay, I got this
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: guy that's still out of counted and he's at court.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: He's still at whatever. At this time frame, where's Reyes?
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: There should have been a transfer receipt signed by the marshals,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: by the staff, that was at the New York court
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: over there. The people that handled the inmates. That transfer
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: order should have been sent back with whoever was transporting
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the inmates and brought back to the institution to say
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: that this guy never came back. Question, so that third
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: page that you're saying though, that was a violation that
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the operations lieutenant didn't sign? Answer right. Question, Would that
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: have been redacted or redacted at the time? Question, because
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff is called a 30-day file. So
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: what the lieutenants are supposed to do on their shift
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: is supposed to when they make rounds in control. They're
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: supposed to because they're supposed to take a count on
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: every shift, especially in the off hours. So before Epstein,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: that was a responsibility. On the off hours, you'll be
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: responsible for taking the count. So that evening watch guy
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: would take the 10 p.m. count, right? or somebody would
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: take the 4 p.m. count. So the operations lieutenant or
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the activities would normally go down and take the 4.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: They would go through the paperwork for the day, up
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: to 4, and you would sign all the forms. Like
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: if somebody checked out keys, restricted key forms, operations, is
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: supposed to sign it. If a transfer order receipt comes back,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to sign it. Whatever happens on that shift,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to sign the count slips. That form, right here,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: that should have been signed by the lieutenant. Question, okay,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: so these forms that we're looking at at 4 p.m.,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: there's a number of signatures that are missing? Answer, yeah. Question,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and should that have been the lieutenant? As in, it
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: looks like redacted. Answer, official appearing count, official taking count,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: those are going to be, so the person that was
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: taking count would have been the OIC. Then the person
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: who was actually was there was a lieutenant that was
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: taking the count. Normally, he would sign in red. Question,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: now the lieutenant, when you say they're there, aren't they
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: in the control center? Answer, they're in the control center. Question,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and then the shoe calls. Okay, so the shoe calls
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and says, we got count 72, 73, 74, whatever it is.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: And in this case, when you look at the 4 p.m.,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you're seeing that there was no lieutenant that signed off
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: on that. Answer, no. Question, so on the first page,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: as well as the third page, was there. They should
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: have signed? Answer, right. Question, all right. And then he
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: gets cut off by the guard. Yeah, because I got, look,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I got a signature for this one that was approved
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: by the operations lieutenant right here. Question, and who was that? Answer,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know whose signature that is. Question, all right.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: It looks like redacted. Would have been on duty. Is
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that the time? Answer, that's going to be 4 p.m.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Whoever took the 4 p.m., that lieutenant would have been redacted.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to pick up with the unknown captain slash guard and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: his interview with the OIG investigators. Question. OK, can we
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: go to the shoe count slips themselves? And that should
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: be like the last page or two. Answer C. Yup.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Those are the inmates that went to the attorney visiting.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: So those three would have been on the count. Now
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you said where? Question. The very last page. It's like
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the actual slip. Answer these. Question. Yup. So these are
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the slips that the actual shoe for the ones that
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: are in the shoe. Can you just put an initial
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: by it or a circle or whatever, which one it
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: is that would have been conducted at the shoe? Answer. Okay.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's Zulu Bravo, Zulu Alpha. Question, so ZA
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and ZB are the two shoes? Answer, yeah. Question, all right, great.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And are you able to tell me who are all
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: on those slips? Answer, it says S, redacted, and Tova Noel,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and redacted. And that would have been for four. Question,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: all right. Answer, 4M, redacted, and Tova Noel for the
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: four count. Question, okay, and now, what's the difference between
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the ZB and the ZA? Answer, I believe that ZA
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: is the total shoe. And then, you had the inmates
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that were up on 10 South. Question, okay, so the
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: ZB is at 10 South? Answer, yeah. Question, so we're
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: focused on ZA? Answer, yeah. Question, alright, so ZA, and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: that one was signed by who? Answer, it looks like Noel,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and M redacted. Question, okay, if that count wasn't actually conducted,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: as they are the only two that are responsible for
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: falsifying that, or would it be other people? Answer, this
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: would be the whole unit. Question, the whole unit. Answer,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the OIC. Everybody was in the unit. Question, okay. Answer,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: because that means on Evening Watch, I believe you have one, two, three,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: four staff, and they have all different range that they
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: have a responsibility of. You know what I'm saying? So
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: they feed us, they feed the ranges, they monitor the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: ranges by doing the 30-minute rounds, so the OIC has
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the key. So those other three staff, the number two,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the three, and the four, I believe they're supposed to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: do rounds. Issue Cosmetics do whatever they need to do
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: as far as the normal operations inside the unit. So
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: if nobody counted, that means who count? Who help assist
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: in counting in 10 South for the five guys? Because
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I believe the lieutenant's supposed to come up. Normally, the
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: activities will go up. I believe and do the count
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: in Zulu Bravo. So that means that one of the
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: lieutenants would be up in the unit when the count
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: was going on. Question. So in this case, a lieutenant
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: should have actually been present. Answer. Yeah. Question. Which lieutenant
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: on that date would that have been? Answer. So that
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: would have been. So redacted probably took the count and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: then are redacted or misredacted redacted. Would have been in
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: 10 South. Doing the count. In 10 South I believe.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: If I can remember. It's been a while. Because it's only.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Per there. Only one staff member. Of 10 South. Question.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So Miss Redacted should have been present for the count.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: At 4 PM. Answer yeah. Because I'm looking. And you
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: have 10 South number one was Mason. And then you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: had 10 South number two. Was Redacted. So Redacted probably
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: was up there doing property. Question now. Is this only
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: for the four? Or should there have been a lieutenant?
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: As well as in the ten, twelve, three, and five? Answer.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: So S redacted. The other guard jumps in. What's the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: first damn on that one? Answer. S redacted. And then
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I'm looking in here. So 10 South number two is redacted,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: which is the property officer. So during the time I
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: was hiring redacted to go up there and get the
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: property situated on the evening watch. Question. So is the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: S redacted even working in the shoe at that point?
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I think he would have had the first. He gets
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: cut off by the guard because you know that because
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that would have been S redacted. Let me look at
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the day because I don't think he would have worked
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: that because it said redacted is the number one. question.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: And that's where I'm confused. I'm looking at some of
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: these counts. Why would they even have? He gets cut
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: off by the guard as redacted was on overtime. So
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: redacted was day watch. So that means Mason probably came
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: in late. So redacted probably did the count because Mason
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: didn't get there. And now he was notorious for that. Mr.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Mason was a good guy, but he had some health problems,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and maybe he didn't get there on time. So Redacted
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: went on ahead, and since the count started at 4,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: he probably went ahead and did the count. Question, alright.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And are you able to tell on that? Does this
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: have a time for when the count was supposedly conducted? Answer,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: it's all of them going to reflect 4. Question, just 4? Answer, 4.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: It's not going to say 405, 404. The count is 4. Question, okay.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: So in this case, the one for the overall shoe
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that would have been, you said, it was that A indiscernible.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Are you just telling that's for 10 South? Answer, overall
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: shoe would have been Zulu Alpha. Question, yeah, and who
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: was on that? Answer, Noel and Redacted. Question, so Redacted, Redacted,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and Noel would have been the one that did the overall.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: But what you're saying is everyone, if the overall count
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: was not conducted... Everyone was responsible? Answer, yeah. Question, for
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: falsifying that? Answer, yup. Question, because everyone would have known? Answer,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: they would have known. Question, that it wasn't conducted? Answer,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't conducted. Question, now is there any kind
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: of like, hey, we fed them, that's how we did
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: our count? Answer, no, count, because I put this guidance out.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: The difference between doing rounds and accurate rounds, you know,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: we talked about the time frame that goes between the
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: 30 minute rounds. So like, let's just say it's 11.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: You should do a round somewhere between 11 and 1130.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: You understand? Question? Yep. Answer? If it's done at 1129,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that's fine. But you should be doing it within that
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes because it has to be irregular. So you
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: can put on there and say, I did rounds at
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: 11 and 1130. 12, 1230, you know, you can't do
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: it like that. So let's say, you know, you're feeding
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: up there. You're up there feeding, but the round is
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: not going to be because you're not monitoring. You're doing
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: a service. Just because you're on the range, that means
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: you did a round. A round is physically stopping what
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you're doing. So if I'm feeding during the time it's
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: supposed to, I'm supposed to do a round, secure the slot.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I go to the beginning of the range. 1, 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, whatever, whatever, whatever.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Document the time that I did the round. Then go
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: back to feeding. It's not, while I'm up there, okay,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I'll feed the range. It took me 7 minutes, 7.9
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: seconds to feed a round. And so that's telling me
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: that you did a regular round for an hour. One hour,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: because you was up there for 45 minutes. No. Did
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you do a round? Did you? Can I physically watch
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you go from cell to cell? That's a round. Question,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: but what about, so can a round? Can't be a count,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: but can a count be a round? Answer, no. question.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: So every 30 minutes, if you're doing a count at
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: 4 p.m., you also have to do a round at 4? Answer, yep.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Because if I go up there at 4, if I go,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: let's say I start at 4, at 4, that's going
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: to be the round. You understand what I'm saying? Because count,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I'm taking accountability for the unit. So if it takes
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: probably two or three minutes, a count, that would be 403.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I count in that range. I go to the next range.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I'm done at 409, 416, 420, 427. Guess what? Between
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: that 30 to 5, I got to do another round.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: In between that time frame not to exceed 40 minutes,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: that's the policy. Question. Okay. Do you know anything about
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: the shoe not conducting rounds? Answer. Do I know of
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: shoe not conducting rounds? Question. If the personnel in the shoe,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: do you know about anything about that? Of them? He
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: gets cut off by the guard. I would never have
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: known that the staff were not because again, that's not
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: my purview. To sit down there and monitor the rounds. Question,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I just mean like had anybody told you this? Answer, no,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I would have never known until after the Epstein thing.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: We had to monitor the camera footage of what the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: shoe staff did, and I was appalled to what they
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: were doing on the off hours. Question, so now, after
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: the fact, are you aware if any of the counts
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: were conducted or not conducted? Answer, I was not made
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: aware of that. The no count was conducted because I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: do not monitor camera footage of the staff. Question, no,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I'm saying after. I'm saying after the fact. Answer, now
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I know, and I was, and again, when I had
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: to monitor the footage per the new directive that was
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: put for the central office, and the captain would have
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: to monitor X amount of hours of shoe footage per week,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: even after we had the situation with Epstein, staff wasn't
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: still doing it right. Question, but in the, what I'm
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: asking is, in those instances, do you know if the
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: 4 and 10 and the 5 on these August 9th
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and 10th, do you? He gets cut off. I would
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: have thought that they would have been done. But do
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you know? Do you know if they were done or not? Answer.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I was told that they were not conducted. Question. 4 p.m.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: as well. Answer. I was told that the officers that
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: were assigned to the morning watch shift did not do
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: rounds from the time they walked into the unit until
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the time that they found inmate Epstein deceased in the cell. Question.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: That I think what you're referring to is August 10th.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I'm saying August 9th. Answer. August 9th. I would not
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: have known that. Question, no, no, now, I'm talking about now. Answer, now,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I'm aware of it, because if the inmate didn't come
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: back from court, how did you clear court? Question, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: did you know that prior to this conversation, though, have
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you ever? He gets cut off by the guard, no. Question,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: so what I'm saying is, you didn't, you have never heard,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: up until this date, that it's possible that the 4 p.m.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and 10 p.m. counts were not conducted? Answer, that is correct. Question,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: all right, and no one's ever brought that to your attention? Answer,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: that is correct. The other guard jumps in, did you?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: What if I told you there was a memo written
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: by Officer Redacted stating that he told Officer Redacted, Redacted,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and Joyner that at 1.50 p.m. on August 9th that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: inmate Reyes was going WAB and possibly not returning? Answer,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: didn't know anything about that. Question, so no one made
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you aware of that? Answer, nope. So 150 if they
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: knew that he was, like I remember I told you,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: that it comes out automatically from R & D. It
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: says the X, Y, and Z inmate won't be returning,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: so he needs to bring his belongings to court line.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: So if they knew, he was W.A.B. who informed them.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Because I bet you, I can guarantee, on that sentry
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: paperwork that was generated that morning that night, so that
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: would have been the 7th, because it's generated on the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: 7th for the 8th, no the 8th, for the 9th.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I know I didn't have W.A.B. on it, Question, okay,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: so my question, what does WAB stand for? Answer, with
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: all belongings. So, here's my question for you. If Officer
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Redacted was aware of that, he would be made aware
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: by who? Answer, he would be made aware by R
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: & D staff. Question, who was the R & D
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: staff that day? Answer, well, the only one I could,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: because he's not on our roster, he's not Correctional Services,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I can only go by this. Question, and who was that? Answer, Ms. Small. Question, Ms. Small. Okay. Answer,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you, Ms. Small, she works. I
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: think her shift ended at 10. So that means she
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: would have been there around 2 because I think she
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: worked 2 to 10. I don't think on weekends. I
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: don't think R & D staff stayed past 10 past 10.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: You understand what I'm saying? So they didn't stay past 10. Question,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: so my question is, if R & D knew, should
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: the control document on the first page, should that have
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: been updated? Answer, yep, this E1, this E1 should have been,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: this is not a correct E1. Question, so the E1
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: is wrong? So at what point, or that point, 4 p.m. count,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: what is that? That last column, what does it say? Answer,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: which one, sir? Question, the one count. The one count
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have shown one for the shoe. Answer, right, because
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: it would have said two. You know what I'm saying?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Because that means that the out count for the shoe
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: was Jeffrey Epstein. Question. If you look at it, it's
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: the Epstein popping up on another column over there under
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: attorney visit. Is he on there on attorney visiting at
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: check the first or second column? Is there a one
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: that says attorney answer? Okay. No, sir. I don't see
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that question. Can I see it for a second answer? Oh,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I pointed to the first column
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: and said it answer. Okay. I'm sorry. Yes. It shows
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: that there was a total. a total of three inmates
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that was out at attorney and out at attorney visiting
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: during the 4 p.m. count. Question, and one of them,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: did one of those inmates belong to the shoe? Answer,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: one of those was Zulu Alpha. And then at that point,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: they also, for Zulu Alpha, they're showing that one inmate
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: was four is still on out count, which means possibly
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: that it's mentioning Efren Reyes then? Answer, right. They should
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: have been updated by then, because they got the notification
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: at 1.50 that he's not coming back. Answer, correct. Question,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: so that E1 document's wrong? Answer, right. All right, folks,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. off. All the information that
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the unnamed CO slash Captain
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: of Securities at MCC and his interview with the OIG investigators.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Question now, if Redacted told Officer Redacted and Redacted and
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Joyner that inmate Reyes wasn't going WAB and that Epstein
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: would need to be assigned to cellmate upon arrival from
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: his attorney visit, Reyes has to communicate where, who dropped
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the ball, and at what point? Answer, okay, I mean
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: for the sake of time. That we talked about before is.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: That means. They would notify me. That he needed a cellmate.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: They knew. They knew the expectation. So that means. If
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: you know that at 150. He wasn't coming back. That
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: means you should have got on the phone. And contacted
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the operations lieutenant. Question. And we discussed this. And this
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: is where we talked about. If they did do that.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: They let redacted know. Redacted's the one. Who dropped the ball. Answer. Yeah. Question.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: The next people that would have done it would have
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: been at the 4 p.m., the 10 p.m. type account.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: They should have then notified the operations lieutenant at the
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: same time. Correct? All right. And what you're saying, though,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: is I think what you said is during the morning
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: shift with Zero Dark Hundred to 8 a.m., or I
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: think it was 8 a.m., right? Answer, yes, sir. Question,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: it's 8 a.m. They wouldn't have known. Answer, they wouldn't
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: have known. Question right. Because they, because if the counts
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: weren't done at 4 and at 10, they wouldn't have
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: necessarily known. Answer, they wouldn't necessarily know. Question, but what
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: about like if they had a conversation at like 12 a.m.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: with the absolute tenant about the fact that the counts
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: are off, redo, or was it 10 p.m.? The midnight
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: one was the one where the count is, he gets
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: cut off by the guard. If you look at, yeah,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the count. So if you go 8-9, we're going 8-10 now.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: And she worked 10 p.m. And she worked from 4 p.m. through. Answer.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: So she wasn't indiscernible. So this is it right here.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about 8-10-2019. That's going to be so
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: this E1 was generated at 03517 hours. Question on August 10th.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Answer on August 10th. And this shows that there are
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: 72 inmates in the SHU. Question, can you look at
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the counts for the day? It's the very last page.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Or it could be second to last. So I'm assuming
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: you're looking for ZA. And then if you could just
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: circle ZA so we know what we're looking at. Question,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: what is the count on that? Answer, it appears it
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: says the count on that day is 73. Question, and
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: that cleared count was 72, correct? Answer, that is correct. Question,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: do you want to follow up? Another question from a
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: different guard. If there was a mistake with the count,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: And the lieutenant caught on to the mistake. What was?
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: He gets cut off by the other guard and the
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: quota was the protocol? Answer, yeah. All right, this is
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: what happened. So if I'm officers, I count, I count
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: the unit and they say 73. The control center would
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: have been like, no bad count. They're not going to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: tell you what you counted. They're going to make you
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: count again. So the procedure is once that bad count
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: has been made, notified, the control center notifies the lieutenant
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: And the lieutenant's supposed to go up to the unit
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to observe the count. Question, all right, so the ops
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: lieutenant in this case should have gone, went to the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: SHU to observe the count. So if there's a bad count,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: that's the protocol. Answer, that's right, that's the policy. So
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you go upstairs. Well, I'm sorry, that's the expectation. Question,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: so expectation, not policy. Answer, I'm not going to sit
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: up here and quote policy when I don't know it verbatim. Question, absolutely. Answer,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: but I will tell you. The expectation is that the supervisor,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: correctional services, a lieutenant, on an announcement of a bad count,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: will go to the area of the count and will
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: observe the said count. Question, what if the supervisor claims
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: when they called in the count and said 73? They said, hey,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: we're calling in 73, but we know we're off by one.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Does that make any sense? Answer, that doesn't. That means
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: the institution count is going to be bad. which that
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: is the worst thing that you can have happen. Besides
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the inmate, it's three things. An inmate died, your count
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: being off, or an inmate escaping. Those are the big
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: things right there. If your count is bad, because that's
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: what we get paid to do, where the masters of count,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: that's what we do, accountability of inmates in a correctional setting.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: That's what you do. That's what you're paid for. So
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you call me as a lieutenant and you tell me,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: hey LT, we keep counting the unit and the unit
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and the count's bad. So the next thing I'm going
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: to tell you, give me some staff up there. I
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: want a stand-up bed book. So then I'm going to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: identify each inmate by their face, their cell assignment, to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: get the count. Question, so what if they say we're
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: off by one, but we know where that one is?
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: That one's over here. And then the lieutenant responds, all right,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to verify where that one staff is. You
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: redo the count. Would that make sense? Answer, no. What
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you is when it was supposed to have
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: been done. question so even if they said like hey
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: we wrote down 73 but that so let's say thomas
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: who's not a typical shoe guy he's the one that
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: calls this in he says i wrote down 73 on
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the count slip but that's because one of our guys
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: that we're counting for is let's say r and d
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: and then the lieutenant then says i'm going to verify
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: that that person is there you reconduct the count and
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: create a new count slip answer. Okay. So it was
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: one RA. I believe that's R and D. RA I
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: believe is R and D, right? No. So R and D,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: there was nobody in R and D. There's no one
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: in R and D. So the policy is the lieutenant
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: is on there. So the policy is the lieutenant is
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: on there. I'm going to watch you do it. And
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: so that's the second count. The third count is the
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: standing bed book count. that I use the bed book cards,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: and I go cell by cell, and I make the
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: inmates say their name and number, and I physically identify
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: them by their face. If that don't work, all this
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: stuff is supposed to be annotated in the log. The
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: bad count 1, bad count 2, shoe reports bad count 3,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: bed book count was identified. The next thing would have
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: been was to go back through the prior counts to
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: see of the movement of who was in or out.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Because if your count cleared here at 10, you only
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: had one out of the unit, which was Epstein. When
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: he came back, that means your count should have went
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: from if it was 72 here. That's telling me that
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: it must have been 71 at boom. So it was 76.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: It was 76. Then the 10 p.m. count, the 930 count.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: It was 73. So where did those inmates go? Where
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: did those inmates go? So somebody was in there messing
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: around with numbers in order for the count to clear. Question.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: In order to find out where they went, is it
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: we have to go into TrueScope? Is that where we
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: could find out? Answer. You would go into True. Most
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: sentry is supposed to be full proof, all proof. But
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it's only as good as the people that put the
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: information in there. Question. And are the shoe people that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: are putting the information in? Is it the control center? Answer,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: so this is what happens. In theory, you've got when
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: inmates come back from court and they do the transfer
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: order and it goes down to control, R & D
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: is supposed to update those inmates coming back in. Control
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: center gets the transfer order and they're verifying. Anytime an
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: internal movement is done inside of a unit like SHU,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: the OIC is supposed to do it. If a case
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: manager and unit manager or a counselor moves the inmate
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: on the unit, guess what? They're supposed to make that sentry.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Indiscernible PP34 transaction in sentry to make the appropriate move. Question.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: So looking at these, do you believe that they're all bad? Answer.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: They're all bad. Question all of them. Answer. They're all bad.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: All bogus. All right. So 4 p.m. through 5. Gets
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: cut off by the guard, the control center, R & D,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: it's bad. Now the other investigator jumps in. Just a
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: clarifying question. Can a person do a count? Let's just
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: say that someone is in a different unit. Can they say, oh,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I know the person is out of the unit and
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to count them as part of the unit
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: and just give the account number? Are they allowed to
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: do that? Do they have to physically have to get
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: eyes on them? Answer no. Question. So it's only who
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: the amount of inmates that are in the unit at
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: that time. Answer, correct. Question, all right. Let's keep going
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: on this. Thank you for that. That's hugely helpful. So
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: inmate cellmates are moved for various reasons, including but not
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: limited to an incident in the cell. Visits to court,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: legal library, medical and recreation. On Friday, August 9th, 2019,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Epstein's cellmate Reyes had a court. It would not be
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: uncommon for Reyes to be out of his cell for
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: an extended period. Epstein had an attorney session that day.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Epstein's attorney was processed into the facility in the morning
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: and Epstein was brought down to the attorney room. And
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: you said that was pretty much seven days a week
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: with Epstein. Redacted was not notified that Reyes was released
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: from court. And again, on that note, would have been
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the absolute tenant that would have been responsible to tell you,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: for instance, if someone heard? Answer? Yes. If you would recall,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: he should have, because he knew the expectation. So, by
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: our previous conversation, they knew the expectation, but again, they
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: chose not to follow the playbook. Question okay, typically, if
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: an inmate is likely to be discharged or transferred following court,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: their property was retrieved from their cell, boxed and secured
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: with a property form by receiving and discharged staff. All
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: items are normally accounted for and inventoried. In order to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: enter the SHU, all staff not assigned there must identify
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: themselves in a signed logbook and then be physically escorted
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: by a correctional officer. Alternatively, the staff can pick up
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: inmate property at the unit door. A correctional officer assigned
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to the SHU would have been aware that Reyes or
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: any inmates' belongings were removed. At this time, the correctional
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: officer should notify a lieutenant, who would in turn brief redacted.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Redacted was not notified that Reyes' belongings were removed Redacted
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: advised that if he had known that Epstein was without
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: a cellmate, he would have likely put Epstein on psychological observation.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: But now you're saying you probably would have put him off.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: He gets cut off by the guard. I would not
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: have put him on psych ops because I can. Question right.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: You would have put him in Fox. Answer. I probably
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: would have put him if he already, if I would
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: have already between those hours 150 and four, I would
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: say keep him in attorney conference because guess what? I've
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: got a staff member right there. And where he was,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: there's a room there. So we normally keep him in
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: these first two rooms. So you could just see him.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: So I would just say, hey, just have somebody stay there.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And I would have hired somebody. I would have hired anybody.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I'll pay you overtime to sit on this guy until
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I got him. Would have kept him in attorney conference
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: right there until I got him a cellmate. I wouldn't
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: have had to put him on psych. You're not. That's not.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I apologize. I can't do that. Question. All right. So
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: this line where you said you would have likely put him.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: He gets interrupted by the guard. No. Question. That's not correct. Answer. No,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done that. Question. Okay. Answer. That's because,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: like I said, my earlier statement, if it would have
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: been after the hours of operation, let's say everybody at eight,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: when we went back to the cell in Chu and
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: because I was still here, I would have said, no,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: put him in R & D because I got R
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: & D staff there until 10. I would have called
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the A & W. I would have called the warden.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately, we would have the somebody would have come
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: in and would have been there later than vetting his
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: cellmate for him. Question right. And it says redacted is
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: not aware of any lieutenants knowing that Reyes' property was moved. Answer.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: We didn't know. Question. Okay. Well, that you know of.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Redacted may have. Answer. He may have. Question. But he
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: didn't tell you. Answer. Of course. He didn't tell me.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the description box.