Latest / The Fourcast / Is Zack Polanski the Left's answer to Nigel Farage?

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Is Zack Polanski the Left's answer to Nigel Farage? · The Fourcast

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The whole frame of the migration crisis is a racist, fascist
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frame. The answer is not to blame the
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migrants. The answer is not to point at
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the small boats. The answer is to point at the
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private jets, the private yachts, and to multi
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millionaires and billionaires. So you're going to be the less
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answer to Nigel Farage for? Sure.
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I guess the one difference I would have is Nigel Farage is a
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one man show. If I'm a one man show, I've
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absolutely failed as the leader of the Green Party.
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You are now going to be running head to head effectively with
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Jeremy Corbyn and his new party and you're going to fracture the
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left. Hello and welcome to the
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forecast. The Green Party of England and
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Wales has elected a new leader and the members, by an
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overwhelming majority, have voted for the candidate from the
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party's more radical left wing. Zach Polanski's campaign focused
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more on Palestine and poverty than plants and the planet.
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He's a former actor, a member of the London Assembly, but not a
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member of Parliament. Is he the voice, the face of a
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new progressive populism that can take on Nigel Farage or, for
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that matter, Jeremy Corbyn? So very welcome to the forecast.
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Thanks so much for having. Me on very.
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First off, congratulations. I very much appreciate that.
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How does it feel still sinking in?
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It's a little bit surreal if I'm honest, but also amongst all the
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elation and the celebration, and I'm sure there's lots of that to
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come, there's kind of the moment that we're in, which is a very
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particular moment. There's failing Labour
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government reform on the rise. Nigel Farage just this week in
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that awful press conference around migration.
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And then you had a Prime Minister who wasn't willing to
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not even condemn it, but actually implicitly condoned it.
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So it's a mixed response. I feel really, really good to
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win the campaign. Of course I do.
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I've just worked really hard along with my campaign team.
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But there's also a sense of how big the challenges are ahead.
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But I think we're ready to take them on.
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OK, Well, look, you've just started there by talking about
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reform and migration during your campaign.
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In fact, during your speech earlier, I heard an awful lot
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about the two child benefit cap, disability cuts, wealth taxes, a
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little bit about water and sewage.
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I didn't hear an awful lot about the planet in general.
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Are you now a party about social justice, international
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campaigning? Or are you still the Green Party
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about environmental issues? You can't have social justice
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without environmental justice. But which do you care more about
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now? I think it's not about putting
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those on the binary, I think it's about recognising everyone
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knows the Green Party cares about the climate crisis.
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We live in one of the most nature depleted countries in the
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world and we've all got to care about nature.
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If nature collapses, we have nothing.
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At the same time, people know that about the Green Party.
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I don't need to keep repeating that.
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What people don't know about the Green Party is we want to lower
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your bills, we want to nationalise the water companies,
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we want to take on wealth and power in this country and we
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want to make sure that we're working with trade unions so
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workers have proper pay, dignity at work and proper sick leave.
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I think all of these things shouldn't be put in opposition
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to each other because actually it's the corporations who are
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destroying our environment, but they're also the same people or
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same companies who are destroying our democracy and
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destroying our communities. This is all part of the same
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system. I think what's different though
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is I don't always come at it straight away from an
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environmental lens, I come at it from a social justice lens, but
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the environment is absolutely wrapped up in that.
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There's no way we can tackle the problems facing our environment
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and tackling the planet unless we have a more equal society.
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Is one of those voices on your shoulder louder than the other
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though? I think it depends on the day,
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and I think it depends on what's going on in the news.
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I think a roundabout COP, for instance, this is the meeting
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that happens once a year of all the countries around taking
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global climate action. Then climate and environment
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clearly comes to the front of the things that I'm talking
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about. The rest of the time is are the
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times when we absolutely need to be protecting nature and
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restoring nature. When I'm not speaking about
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them, though, it doesn't mean we don't care about them.
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And it's not that they're still not at the forefront of
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everything we're doing, it's just that we need to meet people
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where they're at. And if you're worried about
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putting food on your table, heat in your homes, whether you can
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get to work or even if you have a job, then the climate crisis
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can seem quite a distant thing now, given longer to talk about
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it. I can absolutely tell you how
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the climate crisis is going to exacerbate the inequality that
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already exists in our society. The working class communities
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I'm talking about when I talk about social justice, we'll face
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the worst impacts of wildfires and floods.
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They're the people who are least resilient to it.
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And the horrible irony is they're the people who've done
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the least to 'cause it. That's both on the national
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level but also internationally in the global S.
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We've extracted them for oil and gas.
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So these conversations are all part of the same conversation.
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The question though, is what's the first thing we talk about?
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And I want to talk about lowering people's bills.
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OK, let's talk about some of those, some of those things.
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Let's pick them, pick them apart.
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How do you actually start addressing those issues?
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Are you still, are you committed to Net 0 by 2030?
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If so, how? Undoubtedly committed to it, and
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I think anyone who isn't committed to it, that's
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sociopathic politics, OK. Well, the polls would show that
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at the moment the vast majority of the public are agreeing with
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Nigel Farage and they're looking at net 0 by 2030 and say to do
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that you're going to raise our bills, not lower them.
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Well, I fundamentally disagree. I think actually when you see
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polling, 89% of people want to see stronger action on climate.
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To come to your question though, so I'm answering it directly.
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People don't want to do it if it's going to cost them more
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money and I don't want them to do it if it's going to cost more
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money. At the moment it is costing
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people more money if you're asking them to install a heat
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pump or you're saying you need to insulate your own home to
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make it cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter at your own
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cost. These are the results of
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political choices from the government.
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They're not natural order. We can make different political
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choices and right now the government is subsidising jet
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fuels. So if someone's getting a
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private jet that is cheaper in terms of a government subsidy
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than if someone gets a train, It is actually outrageous.
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I went to Sheffield recently. It would have cost me more to
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get the train than to get a plane.
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I obviously got the train, but that's the wrong way round.
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Let's turn that round. But there are far fewer people
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getting private jets then there are hopping on trains.
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So yes, those two things, people might look at them and go, wait
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a minute, that's that's a bit rummy.
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But the numbers don't add up, do they?
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By cancelling one, you're not able to pay for the.
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Other Well, we saw this government freeze fuel duty, for
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instance. So that's incentivizing car use.
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That's deeply irresponsible when we have air pollution in our
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cities. This often effects working class
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communities and minority communities even worse than
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anyone else. Again, that doesn't have to be a
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natural order. We can invest in public
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transport. We can make sure that we're
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electrifying our railway lines and also within our cities and
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particularly in rural communities.
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Some rural communities don't have a bus for days.
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That's absolutely outrageous. It's ridiculous if you want to
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get to work or even if you just want to see a friend.
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Ultimately, again, political choices to incentivize car use
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and not public transport. Let's turn that around and make
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sure we're investing in the greenest, cheapest, most
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affordable option. The fuel duty freeze would
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impact an awful lot of working class people.
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Well, so first of all, most working class people who are
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truly working class don't own your car at all.
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They're often walking to work or they're struggling to even pay
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the bus fares. So I think that bit is
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important. White Van Man would have an
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awful lot to pick up with you on this.
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They would disagree with you. And I'd want to have that
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conversation, that disagreement, because, you know, they'd partly
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be right. And this is exactly what it
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comes to what I'm talking about. They're not the enemy and people
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driving around are not the enemy.
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And again, as I've said, if you do not have an alternative, what
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do you expect people to do? I can understand why people
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drive in rural communities. I'm fortunate enough to live in
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the centre of London. I can cycle around.
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Public transport is amazing. That's not most people's
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experience in this country, and I really mean most people.
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So then the question is, what are you going to do about it?
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And I think The thing is to make sure that the money is going to
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give people cheaper and better alternatives.
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Now that's with transport, but you can take this across any
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measure whatsoever, any option where you want people to do the
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right thing for the planet and the right thing for the
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community. Let's subsidized good behaviour
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rather than subsidizing fossil fuel companies and oil and gas.
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And it's no coincidence that this Labour government took £4.1
7:29
million from Quadrature Capital. They're a hedge fund that have
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assets in oil and gas, arms trade and gambling companies.
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I think it points to why Keir Starmer and the Labour
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government are making so many terrible decisions.
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They're doing what they've been paid to by their vested
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interests. I have two vested interests,
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people and the planet. I think Keir in, in fairness, I
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think Keir Starmer and the government would turn around and
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say no, they're making those decisions because of the
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economic black holes they've inherited.
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But that's just me doing my the. Economic black hole.
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You know, we first of all knew about that before it even
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existed and they're making it worse.
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I almost feel sorry for Rachel Reeves that she's making
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disastrous decisions to appease the markets and even the markets
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aren't happy with the decisions she makes.
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There is plenty of wealth in this country.
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Since the pandemic started, billionaire wealth in this
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country has over doubled, whereas our public assets have
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totally been stripped away. Let's spend money on our public
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services in our NHS, which, by the way, also happens to be good
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for the economy. Is your answer then to many of
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the social policies that you've that you were talking about
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earlier on during during your speech So to any two job benefit
8:30
cap reversing disability cuts, is your plan to pay for all of
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these policies out of taxing the wealthy more and more When it
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comes down to it where we're going to get the money from
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there we go them not they can pay for it.
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So I think that's the first measure is to talk about the an
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extraordinary wealth in this country and the huge inequality
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gap. We don't need to change that
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inequality gap because we need the money.
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And I'll come on to that in a second.
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It's important to tackle inequality in and of itself
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because that's disastrous. So yes, to wealth tax or 1% tax
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on assets of £10 million or more or 2% on assets of a billion
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pounds or more could raise about £24 billion.
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Alongside that we could bring capital gains tax in line with
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income tax. Now, the reason why that's
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important, other than to generate money, is right now we
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tax earned income more than we tax and earned wealth.
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I think to most people that's outrageous and a completely
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ridiculous way of doing things. It doesn't have to be done that
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way. That's a series of political
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choices, Thatcher, Blair and now Starmer and, you know, obviously
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some terrible prime ministers in between that have kept that
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inequality. But also we talk often about tax
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and spend. But actually this is the other
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way around. You can spend on tax.
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You can make sure that you're spending money on the public
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sector because it's things called spending multipliers.
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Every pound we spend on the public sector ultimately throws
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throughout the rest of the economy.
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One of the number one things I want to take on as the leader of
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the Green Party is this myth that the national economy is
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anything like a household budget.
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We hear these constant phrases about balancing the books or
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making tough choices. Why are these never tough
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choices for multi millionaires and billionaires?
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Why are they never tough choices for people earning extraordinary
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amounts of money while they sleep whilst for rest of the
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country with our hands, with our mouth or whatever you do to to
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work are paying more and more tax?
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That's deeply unfair and I'm not surprised people have had
10:12
enough. There's an easy choice for those
10:14
billionaires and millionaires you've talked about, and that is
10:16
leaving the country, which they could well do.
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Well, they can leave, but they can't take that asset.
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So the Duke of Westminster owns half of Mayfair.
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That's about £10 billion or more as as long with many other
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assets you just can't pick up those and leave.
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But also I think we should be more patriotic than that.
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There's a group called the Patriotic Millionaires who are
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saying please tax us more because actually we live in this
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country because we want to invest in this country.
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Fairy land though, thinking, oh, wouldn't it be lovely if
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everyone was just giving more in their taxes?
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The truth is, people aren't going.
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To do that, no, I agree. And they give fairly land, which
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is why I'm saying let's tax for rich.
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Now, if they want to give that willingly, I really support the
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patriotism of that. If they don't want to give it
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willingly, then it's government's job to make sure
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that we're taxing fairly. We're not asking for, you know,
10:56
anything unfair here. We're saying if you have done
10:59
extraordinarily well out of your business because we have a
11:01
National Health Service, because we have a public education
11:03
system, because of public services in this country, you
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should contribute to this country.
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And frankly, if you don't want to do that, then I'll happily
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wave you out the door. Along with their tax revenues,
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they could be. Paid.
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I think if they're not paying tax anyway, we know they're
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offshore taxing actually they're just leeching off society as
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opposed to going. We are asking you, a very
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reasonable demand here, to pay a tiny amount on.
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Your but they do already pay. I know you would like them to
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pay more tax. They do already pay an awful lot
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of tax and they could be walking out the door with the tax that
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they already pay. I think the awful lot of tax is
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doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
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If you look at most of Western Europe and most Social
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Democratic or socialist countries, they're not paying
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very much tax at all. And in fact I think most
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organisations recognize I'm not talking about a little bit of
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tax here. I'm not talking about someone
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who's running the corner shop or someone running, you know, who
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is self-employed or running a small business.
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I'm talking about multi millionaires and billionaires.
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And even then I'm talking about a 1% tax on assets of £10
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million or more. Now you could reasonably say to
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me, by the way, is that enough? And I think it probably isn't.
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And so I think I've got a role in the Green Party to go.
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Could we be bolder with this actually and tax the wealthy
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more? But the fact you get so much
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pushback on 1% shows you how much corporate capital and
12:10
capture there is in this country.
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That's such a basic suggestion that people should probably pay
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a little bit more in tax is received.
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I don't mean you're doing this, but just generally with such
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outrage and such kickback. Well, I think it's time that we
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stop cowering for that kickback and go, if you want to leave,
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leave. There are plenty of people in
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this country who are happy to pay tax.
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And I want people to live in this country who want to
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contribute to this country. One other policy that you've
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already spoken about, you've released a very emotive video
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during your campaign on the White Cliffs of Dover, looking
12:40
out at sea, saying, look, the people who are coming across
12:43
from France in small boats, they've been demonised by Labour
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and by the Reform Party. But what we didn't hear from you
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is, well, what's your actual policy on migration?
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So what is your policy on the small boats crisis?
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My policy is we can stop the small boats crisis.
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It's not a crisis, it's a manufactured crisis.
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And actually we could have safe and legal routes.
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This has been a manufactured crisis by the Conservative
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government and now the Labour government to create a backlog,
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to remove processing centres and to dehumanize some of the most
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vulnerable people in the world. Now I accept not everyone is
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fleeing for their life. I accept that not everyone is
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fleeing from persecution. But let's start there.
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Lots of people are and lots of people who then get to this
13:23
country having travelled on a perilous journey, then when they
13:26
appeal for asylum, do receive asylum.
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So the idea that lots of people are coming here and they are not
13:31
deserving of coming here is the first thing that needs
13:32
challenging. I'll go further than that
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though. If someone is coming to this
13:36
country and they're an economic migrant, so they're not a
13:38
refugee, they're not someone seeking asylum from a safe
13:40
country, but they just want to come to this country because
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they want a better life or they see a better life in this
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country. What kind of message are we
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sending if we want this country to be so bad that we don't want
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these people to come here? I think we should want a country
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that people want to live here. The legitimate question is, is
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are you going to pay money in tax?
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Are you going to work hard? Are you going to contribute to
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this country? And the answer, extraordinarily
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so when you look at data, is migrants are so much more like
14:04
likely to put money into our taxation system than they ever
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are to take out in Social Security and welfare.
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And just the final thing is we have an ageing population.
14:12
We have masses of vacancies in the NHS.
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Sure, we need to train British people or people who were born
14:16
in Britain for those jobs, but also, what is wrong with a
14:20
migrant running their public services or contributing to this
14:23
country? Again, as a patriot and someone
14:25
who believes in progressive patriotism, I'm really proud
14:27
that loving your country and loving your neighbor recognizes
14:31
that so many black and Asian communities in this country
14:33
right now are terrified. Now, they're not necessarily
14:35
even migrant communities. They might have been people who
14:37
have lived here for generations, but they are still terrified
14:40
because the whole frame of the migration crisis is a racist,
14:43
fascist frame. And the Green Party are the
14:46
party that will tell the truth on that.
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Now other people shout it racist or fascist, Absolutely not.
14:51
Lots of them are very concerned that they can't get an NHS
14:53
appointment, that they can't get a council house.
14:55
So there's a sense the country's broken and you know what,
14:57
they're right. So the answer is not to blame
14:59
the migrants. The answer is not to point of
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the small boats. The answer is to point of the
15:03
private jets, the private yachts and to multi millionaires and
15:06
billionaires and say we will fund our public services, we
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will build council houses, we will vest in our NHS.
15:12
That was an awful lot of words, which effectively boils down to
15:15
what sounds like an open door policy.
15:18
Well, open door policy sounds like you're effectively saying
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everyone come in and I just. That's what you are saying.
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You're saying if you're willing to pay tax and get a job,
15:27
everyone come in, right? And so the thing here, Tony
15:30
Blair was accused of doing this and actually a tiny, tiny
15:32
percentage of what people expected came over.
15:35
Now the Labour government and Tony Blair, I think made their
15:38
first big mistake other than the Iraq war, which you know, to
15:40
call that mistake is is probably an understatement, but
15:43
ultimately didn't take on the migration argument at that
15:47
point. We know that Gordon Brown called
15:49
Alison Duffy. I think it was a bigger and it's
15:51
wrong. Gillian Duffy, thank you.
15:53
For a politician to call any member of the public a bigger.
15:57
You should engage with them with the arguments.
15:59
But the cowering and the kind of refusing to actually take a
16:02
stance and actually win the argument through the
16:05
storytelling and through the information, I think was the
16:07
seeds of what Nigel Farage has exploited.
16:09
And now we see Keir Starmer turbo boosting.
16:11
But effectively then those 50,000 people that have come
16:15
over in small boats over the last year, provided that they
16:20
went through a safe and legal route you're happy with, or if
16:22
they're economic migrants were happy to pay tax, you're more
16:27
than happy with those 50,000 coming to the UK and becoming a
16:33
citizen here. With the caveats you gave, I
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think anyone would be foolish to give any other answer than
16:37
welcome to this country. If they are paying in tax and
16:40
they're contributing to this country and they have fled their
16:42
lives or they've come over as economic migrants, then what is
16:45
the problem? The problem is the lack of
16:47
housing. So let's make sure that at the
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same time as doing that, you're building the housing, which we
16:50
need to do anyway. The polls would disagree with
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you here. Majority of people in the
16:56
according to the latest polls, an overall people are saying no,
16:59
we do have an issue with that. We do think that there is an
17:01
issue with too many people setting up home in the UK.
17:05
And should we be surprised when for decades, and certainly in
17:07
the last couple of years, we've had constant propaganda from the
17:11
Tory Party, from Reform Party and Labour mimicking it, And
17:14
that is telling people that people are a problem, that this
17:16
is the thing they should be concerned about and whipping up
17:18
that storm. So we get to why I've just run
17:21
for leader of the Green Party. We need to give bolder
17:23
storytelling. So you talked about the video I
17:24
did and described it as a motive.
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I think that's what we need. I think we need a motive,
17:28
storytelling. When Nigel Farage stands on a
17:30
platform and says these people, your problems, your lives are
17:32
really difficult right now and they're to blame, I can totally
17:35
understand why people get caught up in that.
17:37
I'm not blaming them for that. I'm blaming Nigel Farage, not
17:39
the people who go along with that.
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We need bolder stories. We need to be based in facts and
17:44
information rather than his misinformation and lies.
17:47
We need to be based in unity rather than his division and
17:49
actually make sure that it's not enough to have the spreadsheets
17:52
and the graphs or statistics. I could tell you, for instance,
17:54
there's a stat that if you use the National Health Service, the
17:57
person who treats or cares for you is so much more likely to be
18:00
a migrant than anyone in front of you in the queue.
18:02
I've been saying that for about 5-6 years and I know no one's
18:05
listening. Any way that I'm really going to
18:07
get that through is to tell a story about it, to have a
18:09
narrative or whether it's a social media video, whether it's
18:11
a message or a story. And So what I really want to see
18:14
the Green Party stepping up and doing is telling those stories.
18:16
And that's not just me being the storyteller, but actually the
18:19
people with the lived experience all around the country.
18:21
There's amazing stories happening in the north of Wales
18:23
and people doing extraordinary things.
18:24
Let's hear those stories rather than the charlatans.
18:26
So you're going to be the less answer to Nigel Farage?
18:30
For sure I I reject Nigel Farage's politics and everything
18:33
he stands for. I think it's also undoubtedly
18:35
true. We need communicators on the
18:36
left. I guess the one difference I
18:38
would have is Nigel Farage is a one man show.
18:40
If I'm a one man show, I've absolutely failed as the leader
18:42
of the Green Party. I want to raise, amplify and
18:44
lift up the voices of other people.
18:46
There's far too many people in this party, but more importantly
18:48
in the country that we don't hear from.
18:50
I see my job as to yes, tell stories, but to use my platform
18:53
to facilitate and amplify the stories that are happening
18:56
around the. Country Are you worried that
18:57
your style of storytelling is going to be drowned out by other
19:01
voices on the left? You are now going to be running
19:04
head to head effectively with Jeremy Corbyn and his new party
19:07
and you're going to fracture the left.
19:08
I'm not worried about it all. I've been worried that my voice
19:10
or the left voice might be drowned out by fascism and the
19:14
far right. So if we end up in a place where
19:16
me, Jeremy Corbyn or Zara Sultan or whoever it is are competing
19:19
to be bolder, to be more progressive, to be able to offer
19:24
even more tangible solutions to the country, I think that's all
19:26
really, really healthy. However, I think people are sick
19:30
of people fighting and they're sick of competition in this
19:32
country and they want a different kind of politics.
19:35
Let's start with the fact I really like Jeremy Corbyn and
19:37
Zara Sultan. Politics aside, I also really
19:39
like their politics. Would you want them in the Green
19:40
Party? Absolutely.
19:41
I don't have to think for a second about that.
19:43
It's not my decision. That would be up to a democratic
19:45
body. If you ask me a straight
19:46
question, I'll give you a straight answer.
19:49
I think in terms of what does that future look like, that will
19:52
be up to our membership and potentially their membership,
19:54
whatever it looks like in future.
19:56
I'm not outsourcing that. I have an opinion, but it's
19:58
important to say that, you know, we're a Democratic Party and
20:00
we'll make those decisions. I think when you've got brave
20:02
politicians, whether they're Jeremy Corbyn or Zora Sultana or
20:05
Faiza Shaheen for that example, there's lots of people I can
20:08
name and they're saying the things that you agree with.
20:10
I think it would be wild to do anything but welcome that.
20:13
I'm so sick of being on panels where I argue with some fringe
20:17
right winger. You know, previously it would
20:19
have been about the climate crisis.
20:20
Whether it exists or not, that's not balance.
20:22
And actually, I think it'd be a really healthy balance to have
20:24
some more voices on the left that I don't have to agree with
20:26
on everything. We just have to have a common
20:28
cause. And essentially what we're
20:30
saying is together, united, and I don't mean United necessarily
20:33
in the parties, although maybe that's where we're going or
20:34
maybe it's not. It's too early to say, but
20:37
united in message, united in what we're trying to achieve in
20:40
this country, I think that's brilliant.
20:42
And I, having just been elected today as leader of the Green
20:45
Party, really welcome that. I want more diversity of
20:47
messengers. So that sounds an awful lot like
20:49
you would you would look at Intellectual Pact.
20:52
It's not. A no though.
20:55
It's not a no, but I'll give you an example of what would be a no
20:58
George Galloway was anywhere to do with it.
20:59
That would be enough for me to to step out.
21:01
Now, I'm not slurring here. I have no idea if George
21:03
Galloway is going to be involved or if he wants to be.
21:05
But it's just an example of I don't know enough about what
21:08
that new movement is and they don't know enough about that new
21:10
movement because they're not set it up yet.
21:12
To answer that question in any satisfactory way.
21:14
What I can offer you are my principles and the party's
21:16
principles. We're a party that believes in
21:18
cooperation, that believes in collaboration, that believes we
21:20
are stronger when we work together, them being.
21:23
That all being said, the Green Party are at a moment now where
21:26
we've just elected a leader on a very obvious platform, which is
21:30
about challenging social injustice in this country and
21:33
challenging the climate crisis, also the ongoing genocide in
21:36
Gaza. These are all issues that we
21:37
know people in this country care about.
21:39
We got 39 second place finishes of the last general election.
21:42
We got nearly 2 million votes in London in May.
21:45
I'm absolutely committed and determined to see lots more
21:47
councillors also in Birmingham, S Tyneside and Greens in the
21:51
centre for the first time. There's lots of other places
21:53
too. That's a really exciting moment
21:55
and what we're not doing at the moment is deciding what a
21:58
platform is or deciding what our organization is.
22:00
So this is no slight on anyone else.
22:02
Anyone is entitled to do what they do.
22:03
But I would say to the country, if you want a bolder politics,
22:06
if you want the kind of politics that is being talked about right
22:09
now, you don't need to wait for it.
22:10
Join the Green Party. The first real test of that
22:12
could be the Senate elections in Wales.
22:16
If Jeremy Corbyn's party gets off the ground and it looks like
22:20
they're the sort of people you could be doing business with,
22:23
Are you entertaining electoral pacts, non compete clauses with
22:26
them to get more left wing voices into the center?
22:30
So again, the caveat, I'm afraid that will be up to the Wales
22:32
Green Party, but I'm going to give you an opinion I actually
22:35
would entertain, not necessarily electoral packs initially, but
22:38
non compete clauses. I think that just makes sense
22:40
that if you are targeting a certain group of seats and
22:42
you're working with people who are also targeting a certain
22:45
group of seats, why wouldn't you have that conversation?
22:47
Now that doesn't need to be formal.
22:48
It doesn't need to be an electoral packed, it just needs
22:50
to be the membership going. Actually, there's enough
22:52
commonality here. What is the point in fighting
22:54
each other when actually we could challenge the Labour
22:56
government and reform? I think that'll be a positive
22:58
conversation, but it'll be up to the membership.
23:00
Some people looking at this could say you might end up
23:02
having more in common with Jeremy Corbyn and some other
23:07
left wing groups out there than you do with some of your own M.
23:10
PS I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the party.
23:14
In fact, I said today to Ellie, and I've said during the
23:17
campaign many, many times that when she stands up and
23:19
challenges the Foreign Secretary on the ongoing genocide in Gaza,
23:22
never mind the fact I'm now Green Party leader, as a Green
23:25
Party member, I couldn't be prouder.
23:27
When Adrian is talking about NHS dentistry and the need for
23:30
ultimately funding our public services, those are positions
23:34
that I'm absolutely aligned with.
23:35
I think you know, is there a difference in fact?
23:37
When Adrian was asked repeatedly interview whether or not he
23:39
likes you and you couldn't say yes.
23:41
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
23:43
I mean, people need to come up with an answer about whether
23:44
people like each other or not. But I also think it's.
23:46
It would help. There's only you've only got 4
23:48
MPs, right? So 1/4 of them can't say round
23:51
and say yeah, no, the leader. Yeah, I like him.
23:53
And I'm not going to like you, you know, I go what come up with
23:55
an answer. But I also think how irrelevant
23:57
is that me and Adrian have worked with each other for the
23:59
last three years in a leadership team.
24:01
Not only if we work together, we thrive together.
24:03
It's been some of the best election results for in fact, it
24:05
has having the best election result the party's ever had.
24:07
So I know that professional. Relationship.
24:09
I suppose the reason why some people look at this and say it
24:11
matters is because when they look at the Greens in power,
24:14
when they look at Brighton council, first council that you
24:17
managed to to lead and then that didn't end terribly well.
24:21
They look at you've got 4 MPs now in the last year, they look
24:25
at they've got the new leader and one of the MPs kind of say
24:27
he likes the leader. An awful lot of people will be
24:29
looking at it and saying actually how credible are these
24:32
guys when it comes to lead leading.
24:36
I reject that entirely. I don't think people in politics
24:38
want to know that the politicians can go for a pint
24:40
together. In fact, I think they'd be even
24:41
more impressed if they go for whatever reason.
24:44
You're you're not best at friends, but actually you're
24:46
working really professionally, incredibly together and you're
24:48
going to turn this country around.
24:49
I think that's what matters. In terms of Brighton, I'm really
24:51
proud of some of the results in Brighton building record social
24:54
housing, for instance, and some of the initiatives that were
24:56
pushed I think were really successful.
24:58
I also think there's a warning shot there for the exact
25:00
conversation we've been having. Labour were absolutely so
25:04
determined and so ready to bring the Green Party down way and
25:08
above than they've ever competed with any other political party.
25:11
I don't want to create that relationship with parties on the
25:13
left if Labour have chosen to do that.
25:15
And in fact I, I only, I've not seen it myself.
25:17
I've heard Labour have come quite hard for me today.
25:20
I think it shows the pettiness of the fact I'm talking about
25:22
inequality. I'm talking about the fact
25:24
lifting up working class voices. You would think a Labour Prime
25:26
Minister or Sadiq Khan, who I work with regularly and I do
25:30
challenge him, but also there's moments of cooperation there
25:33
would go actually. I welcome the fact that there's
25:35
a new left wing progressive voice in British politics for
25:38
whatever reason. Here's why you should vote
25:39
Labour and not Green. But they've not made that
25:40
argument. They have completely in the most
25:42
petty tactics possibly, but gone for me and I think what that
25:45
says is they are terrified and I couldn't be more pleased because
25:48
right now they are more scared of losing votes and seats to the
25:51
Reform Party than to the Green Party.
25:53
What does success look like in the next few months?
25:55
I want Keir Starmer to be more worried about the Green Party
25:57
than Reform. Absolutely convinced we can do
25:59
it by growing on membership. Conscious of time, so let's go
26:03
through a few months that hopefully will be a little bit
26:05
quicker. And look, first of all, one
26:07
policy issue, NATO. Are you committed to NATO?
26:11
So the Green Party policy is to stay in NATO, but to reform it
26:14
from within. So asking everyone to take down
26:17
their nuclear weapons and not be a nuclear alliance.
26:19
Now I think there's a legitimate.
26:20
That's not going to happen. Well, I also agree.
26:22
And I also think since then, Donald Trump has been elected.
26:26
This is a man who calls Vladimir Putin his friend, meanwhile,
26:29
humiliates Zelensky in the White House.
26:31
He's also threatening to annex Greenland.
26:33
So if anyone supports NATO wholeheartedly, my question to
26:36
you is, what are you going to do about that now?
26:38
I think it's clearly not the time to leave NATO when all of
26:40
this is going on. But what it is time for is to
26:42
begin conversations about what does an alternative alliance
26:45
look like? We've gone through Brexit, an
26:47
absolute disaster largely caused by Nigel Farage, a man with the
26:50
audacity to then return to the mainstage and say I've got some
26:53
other ideas of institutions you can leave.
26:55
Horrendous. The difference there though was
26:57
we could have reformed Europe from within.
26:59
The question is, can we reform NATO from within with Donald
27:02
Trump or not even Donald Trump? America is an imperial power
27:04
with the increasingly erratic decisions it's made.
27:07
Is that the alliance in a special relationship we want?
27:10
I think for now it's too soon to break away.
27:12
But we should absolutely be talking to our European
27:14
neighbors and saying what does an alliance look like based on
27:17
peace and diplomacy, and that isn't reliant on a special
27:20
relationship with a man who wants to turn Gaza into luxury
27:23
condos. So at some point in the future
27:25
you could conceivably see leaving NATO in favour of some
27:28
other alliance with European partners.
27:30
Yeah. And it depends what sometime in
27:32
the future means. That could be five years or 20
27:34
years. But what I'm arguing, and I
27:35
don't think it's a contention position actually wants, is
27:37
explained. I think many NATO members will
27:39
see it at the contention issue and say that what you're saying
27:42
now will make the world an unsafer place.
27:43
Well, I'd look at the world right now and I don't think it
27:45
could be much unsafer. And I think it's them putting
27:47
their heads in the sand if they think that the situation right
27:49
now is OK. And the complete breakdown of
27:51
international order where Israel are committing A genocide that's
27:54
not being just talked about, but it's being live streamed.
27:57
And then we have the head of NATO kind of nodding on along
28:00
with Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu that is losing its
28:03
moral authority. On Israel.
28:05
Its moral authority. On Israel, you're the leader of
28:07
a major political party now. If you're right in the manifesto
28:09
tomorrow, what is your Israel? Policy well, as well as being a
28:13
leader of a major political party and one of only 5 Jewish
28:16
leaders in the last 100 years. So that's a position I take
28:19
seriously, both in challenging anti-Semitism and Islamophobia
28:22
in this country at the same time, and it's in completely the
28:24
same breath. So the fact that David Lammy and
28:26
Keir Starmer shrug their shoulders and make sad faces
28:29
about the genocide, yet continue to sell them arms is an absolute
28:32
moral outrage. So we must stop selling arms to
28:34
Israel. We must stop sharing
28:35
intelligence to Israel, and we must be arresting the people
28:38
responsible for war crimes. That would be my policy on
28:41
Israel. OK, Labour would say.
28:43
Actually, they are bringing up regularly all of Israel's
28:47
transgressions with Israel and this is what they should be
28:51
doing as a major Western. Power, I mean, I could bring up
28:53
lots of things with you, but if I don't take the action
28:55
necessary, then, you know, it's a bluff.
28:57
And if you carry on doing that, then you might think we're in
28:58
cahoots. And so I think when people say,
29:00
you know, that David Lammy and Keir Starmer are having strong
29:04
words with Benjamin Netanyahu at the same time as we're seeing
29:06
the charred out bodies of children and men and women, then
29:10
I think it's time to it's long time to look at different policy
29:14
more widely. It is time for a free Palestine.
29:16
It's time to to end the occupation and to recognise that
29:19
we have an apartheid state clearly, and I think it's
29:21
important that politicians do not waiver from the clarity and
29:25
the necessity to make sure that's very clear.
29:27
OK, an awful lot of interest to say it's not an apartheid state.
29:30
There's a very clear definition around around that, and that
29:33
isn't the case. As Ash Sarkar said recently, I
29:35
could say I'm 6 foot 5 and I might want to believe it, but
29:37
it's not true. Also, we're speaking on a day
29:38
where genocide scholars, again another set, are saying this is
29:42
undoubtedly a genocide. OK on another issue which could
29:46
not be further apart but be remissive along you not to Lot's
29:50
release address it OK Many years ago when you were a
29:53
hypnotherapist, there was an undercover operation by a
29:57
newspaper and you were filmed saying that it was possibly
30:04
possible to grow a woman's breast by using the power of
30:08
hypnotherapy and thought so. For the record, do you believe
30:12
that you can grow breasts or any other body part through the
30:15
power of? Thought no, that's absolutely
30:16
it, Said also I should say it wasn't an undercover operation.
30:19
So way before I was a politician, a Sun journalist
30:21
approached me and said could I do an article on body image?
30:24
The article misrepresented me and I went out on record that
30:26
day to say it's misrepresented me.
30:28
I still apologize, though, and apologize back then.
30:30
I stand by that apology. One of my favorite politicians
30:33
is Tony Benn, and he had a key phrase which is I'm not
30:35
interested where you've been, I'm interested where you're
30:37
going. And I think the fact that this
30:39
story sometimes gets brought up largely by Labour, at the same
30:42
time as I'm talking about taxing inequality, you can see why it
30:45
might be a distraction. But they've brought it up today
30:48
and for a lot of people who, well, the best one in the world
30:50
is that may have never have heard of you before, all right,
30:54
But this will be their first introduction to you.
30:56
And it'll be some story about, well, this bloke thinks that you
30:58
can grow body parts by thinking about it.
31:00
So. So how do you address it?
31:02
Are you worried about how you get across to all those voters?
31:05
Well, it's why it's really important that I say this
31:07
doesn't represent me and I've apologised.
31:08
Here's a record I've had over the last few years as an elected
31:11
member of the London Assembly, as deputy leader of the Green
31:13
Party, and here's what I've done to represent the values.
31:16
That article absolutely didn't represent me.
31:17
It doesn't represent me today. It didn't represent me then.
31:20
I think, you know, I welcome if people are starting to pay
31:23
attention to me for the first time and I think once we've
31:25
dealt with that, then I'd hope they see all the other things I
31:27
stand for and that's going to be an easier.
31:29
Conversation Just lastly, it was it was notable in your speech.
31:36
You look quite moved when you were talking about your partner.
31:40
Are you ready for the toll on your personal life that a career
31:46
in national politics, not just local politics, albeit of of the
31:51
capital, can have on someone's personal life and, and just how
31:54
intrusive this is now going to be on your on your life?
31:57
I'm not ready for it. And I suppose I'd turn that
31:59
question around to any journalist and say, how can we
32:01
make sure that we scrutinize politicians in a democratic and
32:03
accountable way, but in a way that doesn't intrude on their
32:05
personal life? The reason why I got emotional
32:07
is because Richie, my partner, means everything to me.
32:09
It's also, I mentioned he works in palliative care.
32:12
And I think it was both love for my partner, but also the
32:15
recognition of, you know, I've just been elected to this
32:17
amazing role. But there are people out there
32:19
every single day doing amazing things and they don't have the
32:21
title of the microphone that I do.
32:23
And so I think it was just a realization both that I could
32:25
acknowledge my partner but also acknowledge the incredible
32:28
people who do. So I'm feeling emotional again,
32:30
incredible people who keep this country running every day, who
32:33
are out there doing incredible things that we just often don't
32:36
hear about. And I think that's pretty
32:38
humbling. SAT Polanski, thank you very
32:40
much for joining us. Thanks so much for having me.
32:41
Thank you. That's it for this episode of
32:43
The FORECAST. Join us next time.