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Slay The Princess · The Long and Short of It

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Thanks for checking out the Long and Short of It podcast.
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You can find us on all good podcast platforms.
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Please consider following or subscribing.
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We hope you enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome to the Long
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and Short of It, the podcast where we discuss each of the
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games on the Open Critic Top 100 list.
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My name's Lawrence and I'm joined by.
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This is Dan, welcome to the podcast.
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Welcome to the podcast, welcome back and welcome back to your
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good self who's now been marred with marriage.
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And you are returned from the Far East from your honeymoon
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after a few weeks away, aren't you?
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Yes, yes, I've within that time, 3 weeks, I've gotten married.
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You, you were present. I was and we spent a lovely few
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days in the lake. Yes.
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And then I was. Then I flew off to Japan on a,
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on a very long flight and had an amazing time.
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Yes, really great. Three weeks, I would say.
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I'm probably not the most emphatic person in the world,
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but yeah, it was brilliant. It was, it was so good.
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We'll struggle to top it, I think, in my life, but yeah, it
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was great. Brilliant.
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Well, you don't need to top it again unless you anticipate
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anticipate getting married again, and I don't think you
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are, so it should be. Fine, that's not on the cards at
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the moment. No, it was, it was good.
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It was a very, very you wedding. And yeah, I think everyone had a
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really nice time. The venue was awesome.
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And yeah, obviously you spent a couple of weeks in in Japen and
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I was, I was thinking about it earlier when I said we're going
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to record today. I was like, what's my, what's my
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favourite moment of the entire wedding?
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I don't know if you've got the photo.
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Have you got the photos back for the photography yet?
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I'm speaking to him on Monday, so I imagine that I'll have them
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next week. So it was, I think it was just
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after you cut the cake and going back down to like there was a
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like a little, I don't even know what you'd call it.
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It's not like a Hut. It's kind of like a little scout
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huts like hall thing where the, the actual ceremony took place
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in the, the after party, etcetera.
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And it was kind of late afternoon and right, everyone
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come back down. We're going to do, do speeches.
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And then you and me walked down to the to the thing, and the
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photographer was taking pictures.
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He was like, dad, I think you might need to go back up because
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I think you're supposed to walk down with your wife.
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And you're all right. OK.
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Yeah, he said that to me a few times over the course of the
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over the course of the day. But then every time, every time
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I went to Becca, she was like, she's like, oh, no, you don't
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need to walk me to places. But I thought I bet better do
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it. Better do.
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It chaperone. Yeah.
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Wedding chaperone. But no, it was, it was a it was
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a good day and hopefully you're back and feeling refreshed.
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I'm jet lagged so today is my first day back in work and I
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felt it. But I'm better than I was
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yesterday so give me a few more days.
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But I'm in good spirits and that's the most important.
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Thing that is the most important thing with a with a a new nice
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piece of jewellery around your finger, yes, which has.
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Been sent back because it's too big so I'm getting it sized.
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Did did did you get it originally sized before you lost
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all that weight? Yes, So great size before I lost
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the weight. And then not, not that I was
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ginormous, but yeah, I lost some weight for the wedding.
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And I also when I was in Japan and it it was loose.
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So Becca said, oh, just put it on your middle finger.
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So I put it on my middle finger and it got stuck on my middle
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finger. So we were moving between cable
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cars, quite literally on a mountain, and I was struggling
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to get the ring off my middle finger and.
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I think kind of just with it. Yeah, so that was fun.
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And then my, my, my finger was going purple, so that was great.
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Oh. Fantastic.
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That's good. Wow, that's a memory for you.
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The medical malady in Japan. Yeah, yeah.
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Fantastic. Well we are we are back to it
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after a a tumultuous couple of weeks with with everything going
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on. You've obviously been got
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married, been on a honeymoon, I've been at work so there's
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that I suppose. But it's my last day with my
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current job tomorrow, OK, before I move on to past years new.
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But we are here as we often are well met to discuss a game.
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And a game that we are going to be discussing today is it was a
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bit of a rogue one that you told me about.
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Yeah, bloody ages ago. Now I hadn't heard of it before.
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But today we're going to be talking about a game called Slay
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the Princess. So Slay the Princess is a game
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developed by a company called Black Tabby Games and was
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originally released in October 2023 primarily on PC.
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But then I think later they released it on consoles and
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other gubbins after that Tabagotchi.
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But yeah, so Furbies. Yeah, play it on your
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calculator. Yeah, but it came out with an
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open critic score of 90 and it comes in on our list at position
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number 83. OK, so initially tell me about
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your history of this game, what you knew about it, if anything,
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and where you played it please. Nothing.
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I knew nothing about this. I was scrolling through the
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list. Sometimes I go back to the list
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and I just like to see what changes have been going on.
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And I find with the open critic list, it changes more frequently
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than the Metacritic list did. So yeah, it seems interesting.
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Yeah, every month or so just to go back in and see what couple
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of new games are on there. It's quite a dynamic list.
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So I, I had a look through and I was looking for a short game for
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us to play because Hollow Knight turned out to be a much longer
6:34
game than I think either of us anticipated.
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So what I was doing was just going backwards and forwards
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between the list and howlongtobeat.com to just check
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the length of these games. And I checked this one and it
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turned out to be quite short. Looked into it a little bit and
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it looked quite interesting. An adventure sort of horror
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narrative game. So I thought, why not?
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So yeah, we we've decided to do it.
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I played this. There's a version on the the
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Switch called Slay the Princess, Pristine Cuts, I think it's
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called. Yeah.
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So I played that version, yes. Where did you play this game?
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And as you've already alluded to, no prion.
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Yeah, never bloody heard of it, heard of it before, had no idea
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what it was. But yeah, I you told me about
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it. So I was like OK, sounds
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interesting. Still had no concept of what it
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was until I looked it up and saw kind of what kind of game it is.
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And I describe it as like a, you remember the old Goosebumps
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books, like Choose Your Own Adventure, a little bit like
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that. But yeah, I started playing this
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on the Xbox because it's a little bit cheaper than playing
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it on Switch. However, I then about a week or
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so ago, upgraded and did the thing that I'm very good at
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doing, which is wasting money. And I purchased myself a gaming
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PC. Long time listeners of the PC
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may remember. Listeners of the PC listeners of
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the podcast may remember. Probably about a year and a half
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ago, I actually bought a gaming laptop, but I then ended up
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selling it about six months later.
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I just didn't really like it. But I've given myself a proper
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setup. So I started playing it on the
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Xbox and then finished it on my gaming PC over the Halloween
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weekend. So yeah, it was my first game, I
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suppose if you want to call it that's on the new on the new
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rig, playing that alongside a demo called called Half Sword.
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But yeah, it was it's certainly an interesting game.
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So do you want to tell us what this game is about and what what
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it is? Because we mentioned it's kind
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of like a narrative driven game, a bit like a choose your own
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adventure. But what is Slay the Princess?
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Yes, so. Basically, you've got different
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scenes and it's it's a, it's a spin on the old, the age-old
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formula of saving the Princess. And we've, we've also played
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another game in the Metacritic list, which was a bit of a spin
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on that, which was the name's not going to come to me now, the
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game where you turn out to be the person who stole the
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Princess. And it's that puzzle game.
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And I can't think for the life of me what it's called.
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All right. I completely lost your audio
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again. Oh no.
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Right. Do you want to start again from
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talk about what it is? Because I didn't stop recording.
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Yes. So before before I do that, what
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was that game called the the other game where?
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The Stanley Parable. No, no, the the puzzle game
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where you ended up being the person who was the monster who
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stole the Princess. Oh, Braid.
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Yes, that's the one. All right, So, yeah, so slay the
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Princess is a bit of a spin on the old formula of saving the
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Princess, obviously going back to the Mario days and and the
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age-old sort of a fairy tale formula.
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And we've played another game in the in the Metacritic podcast
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called Braid, where you turn out to be the person who kidnapped
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the Princess. But in this game, you are there
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to slay the Princess. And you're right, it's sort of
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like a Goosebumps choose your own adventure.
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And upon starting the game, you are greeted with the narrator
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and he talks to you in the second person, says you are
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doing this, you are doing that. And you come upon a cabin.
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And inside the cabin in the basement is a Princess.
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And basically you're having conversations with the narrator,
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with voices in your own head, with the Princess herself, and
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you're making decisions about the fates of the Princess and
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the fate of the world. Because you're told by the
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narrator that if you don't slay the Princess, it will mean the
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inevitable doom of the entire world.
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And then there's a bit of a cycle going on.
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So you go through this story, which is. 3 chapters per run on
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there it's. Yeah.
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Multiple times you run through the game.
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Yeah, and it and it is. It's almost like a visual novel
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in a way, except that you do make those decisions along the
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way. And yeah, you, you repeat this
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cycle five times until you get to the credits and you're making
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different decisions on each playthrough.
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And it's sort of has each each time you play, it has
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repercussions in the following playthrough, but it's also a bit
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like Groundhog Day in that you're replaying a scenario that
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you are very familiar with by the 5th time you've played
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through it. But there are multiple ways and
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multiple choices you can make. And one run of five playthroughs
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won't have you seen them all? I think there's 20 or 30 odd
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overall or something like that. So you're the outcomes that you
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had will probably have been different to the ones that I
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had. It's not an easy game to
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describe when I when I try to vocalise what it is, because it,
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it really is quite unique, isn't it, for this list?
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Yeah, it's, I mentioned to you just now that it kind of gave me
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vibes of The Stanley Parable when we played that a while ago,
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which was a game that I really enjoyed.
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But yeah, Slay the Princess is like you say, it's very much the
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case of your playthroughs will be very different from my own.
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And as you progress, you see that the decisions that you make
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or the options that you choose will then vastly change what
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kind of Princess that you're dealing with, what her
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personality is and how she talks to you.
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Like the biggest change that I saw was at the start of every
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run, you start off outside a cabin, you walk up to the cabin
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and then before you go downstairs, you have the, which
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is where the Princess is. You have the choice of picking
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up a dagger or not. And my first playthrough, I went
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in with the mentality of I'm not going to kill the Princess,
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which led to the I think it's all like the happily ever,
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happily ever after ending where you go outside under the stars
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and you dance with each other. And that's, I think clusters
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like the happy ending. I was like, OK, interesting.
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So I did that. So I never actually got that
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one, even though I left the dagger.
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And oh, really? Yeah, no, I didn't get that one.
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So yeah, you, you have dinner with her in this big castle and
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yeah, you escape and then dance with each other under the stars.
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But then the second time that I was like, OK, I've done that run
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now, so let's start again. I went down to the basement, but
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this time I took the dagger with me, but still with the mentality
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that I wasn't going to kill her. And her voice and her
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personality is completely different just by the choice of
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taking the dagger with you. And it really threw me.
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And it was at that point where you can't do the same run twice,
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it stops you from doing it. So I did it where I was like,
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OK, so I've taken the dagger down with me, but I'm not going
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to kill her this time. However, when you try to set her
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free, she like chews off her own arm.
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And you then like, OK, let's get out of here.
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But then the narrator's like, no, you're not doing this.
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And you have like 17 options of slay the Princess, slay the
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Princess, slay the Princess, or the other one is like, yeah,
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warn the Princess. However, that option, that time
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was completely blacked out for me.
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So I couldn't I couldn't do it. And she went from being the
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Princess who I was trying to warn and trying to get away with
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despite me having the dagger with me this time, to then for
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the following two, like, continuations of that second
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run. Yeah.
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She became like this demon that looked like a corpse and was
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like, haunting you and became like this soul sucking demon
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thing. Like, it was quite freaky.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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It's a horror. Name.
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Yeah, it is a horror love story. That's how they describe it.
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It's like a psychological horror.
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Yeah, and, and I'll be honest, like the overall theme of like
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not even the theme, the story of it.
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Like when I got to the end, I didn't really fully get it
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because it is quite complex. It's very much a case of this
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scenario that you're in is everything.
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This is the entire world. And we have the option of ending
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the world or keeping things running as they are and choosing
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love. It was really bizarre and I I
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don't really know what I took away from it.
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Do you have any insight? Yeah, so, so before before we
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get there, I think a good so each so every time you you go to
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the cabin, you go to the basement, you.
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You finish a continuation. Yeah.
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So you finish a continuation and there are three, there are three
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of those and that makes up one run.
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And then you do this five times in order to get to the ending.
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And as you say at the end, you make a decision, so.
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It's kind of like talking to to Flowery, the flower from
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Undertale, isn't it? Like the the all seeing?
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Yeah, like creation or the creature at the end.
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Yeah, and and spoilers for the game.
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Yeah, essentially what is happening is that the Princess
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is the God of death, or not necessarily death, as in, oh,
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she's she's Death itself and she's the Grim Reaper.
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The Grim Reaper. But she, she is the goddess of
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the concept of death. So what the narrator stands for
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is, is he wants to eliminate the concept of death, and he wants
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people to live forever and without the pain and the
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suffering of death. Yeah.
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And that's what he's talking about when he's talking about.
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Good and the world. Yeah, saving the world.
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And by slaying the Princess, you can save the world, which is
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very, very enigmatic until the final sort of part of the game.
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What he means by If you don't slay the Princess, the world
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will die and you'll doom everyone.
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And each time you do a continuation, you doom a world.
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And each time you start a new continuation, it's in a new
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world and you've doomed that previous world.
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So the decision you've got to make at the end is, do you
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maintain the status quo, which is keep a world where death is a
19:10
concept and you have living and you have dying, You have all the
19:15
pain that goes with it, or you eliminate that and all you've
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got is life, for better or worse.
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Or the third option is that you run away with the Princess and
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you basically shake off your responsibilities.
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And I don't, I don't quite know what the repercussions of that
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are, but you, you disregard what fate has in store for you
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because it turns out that you are part of the Princess.
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You are. Yeah.
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A piece of her. Which was created by the
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narrator to slay the Princess. So there's definitely some some
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strands here that are quite metaphorical in a way.
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And there there are also elements that you won't
20:16
necessarily understand even on a complete playthrough, because it
20:21
may be that they they were part of another playthrough, or
20:25
another set of endings, or. So you won't necessarily
20:29
understand everything, but I will say that the big takeaway
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for me, I really like this, this thought of if you could
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eliminate death as a concept, would you do it?
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And I, it seems like a really simple realisation, but I mean,
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I feel like I'm on a journey to, to discover what life is about
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and, and the meaning of life and, and why we are here.
21:06
And I feel like everyone's sort of on that journey.
21:09
And sometimes it's a sort of external question that you are,
21:13
sometimes it's an internal thing that you have to kind of come to
21:17
terms with yourself. And I, I kind of this, this
21:22
question of if you could eliminate the concept of death,
21:26
would you do It kind of hit me hard.
21:28
And it was like, no, we, we need death.
21:32
We need that finality, that, that suffering to really
21:38
appreciate life. Without that, life becomes
21:43
meaningless. And we need that ultimate end in
21:49
order to have everything else because that's where the value
21:53
comes from. And that I found, I found it
21:58
quite poignant really, and impactful.
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And in my playthrough, I actually ran away with the
22:04
Princess and we kind of just showed our responsibilities.
22:07
And I'm sure that a lot of people do do that because you're
22:12
either maintaining the status quo, you're doing a Guy Fawkes
22:17
and destroying everything, or you are.
22:22
A child and say I don't want to play, I'm running.
22:24
Yeah, yeah, basically that's where it is.
22:25
And because it's a game, you kind of want to defy the rules
22:29
and you, you want to say, I don't want to play, I don't want
22:31
to take one of the binary options, I'm going to do
22:35
something else. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
22:38
Like the decisions that you make in a game are very different to
22:40
the ones that you'd make in real life.
22:42
Like on my first playthrough I went down into the basement
22:45
without the dagger because I was like well I want to see where
22:48
this goes and also. I want to push the game to its
22:51
limits because I know it's a game.
22:53
Yeah. And it's what you do in The
22:54
Stanley Parable, isn't it? It's the Stanley Parable is very
22:57
much a case of within the 1st 2 minutes, you get to a point,
23:02
it's like Stanley went through the door on the left, and then
23:05
you choose to go through the door on the right.
23:06
And then the rest is like, no, no, we're doing this again.
23:09
Stanley went through the door on the left and you continue to
23:15
push it. And I think that I'd be
23:18
interested to see that there's no such poll that exists.
23:21
And maybe it's a poll I can put if, if, if anyone listening to
23:25
this listens on Spotify, there is the ability to do like a poll
23:29
at the bottom. And I might put a poll on this
23:33
episode to run for a few weeks. But whenever I play a game and
23:39
like Red Dead Redemption 2 is a fantastic example of this.
23:43
You have the opportunity in a lot of games to play as the good
23:48
person to some extent or the bad person.
23:51
Paragon Renegade in Mass Effect. Yeah, and the, the, the, the
23:56
bad, the bad ending or the bad person.
23:58
Like, I mean, we've talked about Red Dead Redemption 2 at length.
24:01
I think it's probably we, we split that episode into two
24:05
parts. That's a that's a really big
24:06
episode and the bad ending to that game.
24:10
And again, anyone that wants to play Red Dead 2 that hasn't.
24:13
Spoilers now, but yeah, the the bad ending in Red Dead
24:18
Redemption 2 is OK. You have two options.
24:21
Do you want to help save John and his family, or do you want
24:25
to go back down to the camp and steal the money?
24:27
And it's like, well, Arthur's absolutely riddled at this point
24:30
by tuberculosis and he's about to die.
24:33
It's very clear. So it's like, well, why would
24:36
you take that ending? Because that's clearly not the
24:39
ending that the the devs want you to take.
24:43
They want you to help John survive and have your moment
24:48
dying on top of the the Cliff with the with the sunrise.
24:53
If you played the game like with good karma.
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And I think that a lot of people would play games in that ilk, IE
25:02
I'm going to play this the good way.
25:05
Yeah, I might be wrong and I will put no egg in the Spotify
25:09
episode. I'm sure, I'm sure there's been
25:12
polls on, on websites that I've looked at before and it's
25:15
something ridiculous like 75 to 80% of people will choose the
25:20
good storyline. And, and I think I've said
25:24
before, in games where there is a like a binary choice between
25:29
good and bad, sometimes I'll do the good ending and I'll say to
25:33
myself, oh, I'll do the bad ending next time and.
25:37
Get to it comes to it I want to do.
25:38
That Yeah. And I remember we talked about
25:41
this in the Metal Gear Solid episode of the one where you let
25:45
Meryl die. I hate doing it.
25:49
It just doesn't feel right. And I always do it because I
25:53
want the stealth suit. Yeah, I've done it a few times,
25:58
but I don't like doing it. Because it feels like it's the
26:02
wrong choice. Yeah.
26:03
And also to get that ending, you have to give up on the torture.
26:07
And it feels like you've actually done something wrong
26:11
and you're getting punished for it.
26:14
And the punishment is that Meryl dies.
26:16
So it's, it's one of those things, even when I set myself
26:23
the task, I will occasionally on some games do the bad side of
26:27
things or I'll sort of toe the line a bit and I'll, I'll do a
26:31
bit of both, which I do tend to do more these days, but I'm not
26:37
always comfortable. I don't know if that's the right
26:41
word, taking the completely bad side.
26:46
And I don't know why that is. And, and obviously I'm not alone
26:49
in that, that thought process. Now games are a forum where we
26:54
can, we can live out that side of things and there are no
26:58
repercussions. And this game is a good example
27:03
of that. And actually the the decisions
27:06
it presents to you, it encourages you to actually
27:12
deviate from authorial intention and what the narrator wants,
27:17
because the narrator tells you to do something, but from step,
27:23
from moment one, he never explains why he wants you to.
27:28
You're here to slay the Princess.
27:29
OK, Why? I was like, well, you don't need
27:31
to worry about that. You just need to do it.
27:32
Otherwise, the world's going to end.
27:33
And I think for most players that would bother them that.
27:37
That's why I went down initially.
27:39
I was like, well, no, I'm going to hear her out.
27:41
Exactly. We've all played enough games to
27:43
know when we're being duped as the player, and gaming is such a
27:47
funny medium. And we talked about this again
27:50
in the Bioshock episode. We there is what we want to do,
27:56
but what the game allows us to do.
27:58
So there is no way to complete Bioshock without killing Andrew
28:03
Ryan. And we are following the path
28:08
that the game sets out for us and we have to do it.
28:11
That is the only path forward. And it's an interesting thing in
28:17
games where what we as people want to do doesn't always go in
28:22
line with the choices that we have.
28:25
And it's different from other media in that way.
28:28
We're kind of playing out a story that we don't have entire
28:32
control over. So when the narrator presents
28:36
this this choice for us, but doesn't explain why, I think
28:41
it's natural for people to want to challenge that.
28:44
And if we can't challenge that, then I think that would bother a
28:48
lot of people. And so, so, so we go down this
28:52
route and, and probably a lot of people don't say the Princess,
28:57
but then the game forces you to replay and to replay and you get
29:00
different choices and you have to make and at some point you're
29:03
going to kill the Princess inevitably to get those
29:07
different choices. So it's an interesting
29:09
conundrum. And I think your parallel to the
29:13
Stanley Parable is, is a good one as well, because we do like
29:18
to push those boundaries. One of the things that I always
29:21
do in games, it's like testing where the invisible walls are or
29:25
an open world game, seeing where the edges.
29:29
It's seeing how far you can push a game like, and it's like that
29:35
thing in Breath of the Wild, seeing how you can, you can do
29:39
the shrines in different ways to the ways that were extended and,
29:45
and that's a brilliant feeling to to come up with your own
29:48
inventive ways to do things. So we as people don't like to
29:55
follow the beaten track and. No.
29:59
This is a this is a game that really plays to that.
30:03
Well, it's the it's, it, it goes all the way back to the thing
30:07
that people always analyse, isn't it?
30:09
Whether or not you believe in the Bible or whatever, but it's
30:13
the the Adam and Eve story, isn't it?
30:14
It's like, right, you've got absolutely everything that you
30:16
need here. You don't need to worry about
30:18
anything. The one thing that I don't want
30:20
you to do, see that apple tree over there?
30:23
Just just don't, don't mess with that apple tree.
30:26
It's don't have an apple. And then what is snake, isn't
30:30
it? The snake says to, is it?
30:33
Eve says to Eve, yeah, you should have have that apple
30:36
looks good, doesn't it? And then she does it and it's
30:38
like, right, you did the one thing I told you not to do.
30:41
You didn't need to. You got absolutely everything
30:43
you need to now get out my garden.
30:45
You're out. And it's human nature, isn't
30:48
It's curiosity. Yeah, do mean humanity by, and
30:53
it is. I mean, that's another good
30:54
parallel, the story of Adam and Eve and that single choice that
31:01
you make that dooms humanity. Thanks Eve.
31:07
Yeah, exactly. And, and it is, it's, it's that
31:11
curiosity that the poisoned apple.
31:18
And then, yeah, it, it's interesting.
31:20
And, and I, I kind of appreciate this game more because of it.
31:25
I think what this game is trying to do and what it says is more
31:30
than the sum of its parts. Like when you're playing this
31:34
game, it won't necessarily feel that profound, but when you go
31:39
away and think about it, I found it had quite a decent impact on
31:44
me. And I've definitely taken stuff
31:46
away from it, which is more than I can say for a lot of games on
31:49
these lists. So yeah, good stuff.
31:53
So there isn't really a game players king section here
31:58
because it is very much make a choice and then you'll go along
32:02
with it. And we've talked a lot.
32:05
Basically what I'm going to do is I'm going to jump straight to
32:06
Question of the Week. But what I think is interesting
32:11
is we've talked the last two games that we've talked about on
32:14
this list have been walking Sims.
32:18
Obviously we've played What Remains of Edith Finch and then
32:20
we played what was the other one.
32:25
Dear Ester. Dear Ester.
32:27
And we made the comment in Dear Esther that it is a it's an
32:32
experience. It isn't a video game, really.
32:35
Yeah. With Edith Finch is a little bit
32:39
more like a game. There are more game like
32:41
elements to it. So the question of the week this
32:45
week is, do you think that Slow the Princess is a game or not?
32:49
Because I think, I think you might have used the term
32:51
earlier, but I think that it's something else very much akin to
32:55
a game that we played a while ago.
33:02
I think it's more of a game than the two quote unquote walking
33:08
simulators. And the reason I think it is, is
33:15
because it's so gamey and the message it's trying to deliver
33:19
is through the form of games. And it's like without a
33:26
knowledge of games, this narrative wouldn't work because
33:32
you are pushing the boundaries. But the game knows you're going
33:35
to do that and it knows the decisions you're going to take
33:39
and it's all pre calculated. It it wouldn't work if it was
33:44
anything but a game or a choose your own adventure, it could
33:47
possibly work, but then it would have to keep track of all those
33:50
decisions. It works because it's a game.
33:55
So yeah, I I think more so than those where linearity is the
34:03
course of the day in those two games here it you are to a
34:12
degree free to make your decisions within the parameters
34:16
set by the developers. So it really pushes that medium
34:21
of games, even if there isn't gameplay as such.
34:25
The gameplay is press A to make a decision and that's it.
34:30
Yeah. So what?
34:32
What's the game that you think it's like that we've played?
34:36
Yeah, So I I disagree. I think this is less gamey than
34:40
the other two. And even though this has
34:44
slightly more kind of involvement is a game I'm
34:49
thinking of, the game it makes me think of is The House in
34:52
Fetter Morgana, which is like a it effects like a digital novel
34:57
really, isn't it? Yeah, that's a visual novel.
34:59
Visual novel, that's the game, the term and the house from
35:05
memory. It's been so long since we
35:07
played that game. But I don't think that is a
35:09
that's just a read along, isn't it?
35:11
You're not really making choices in that game from what I recall.
35:14
No. So you do have odd choices that
35:19
you can make and it will lead to different endings, but they are
35:23
few and far between. And overall there is there is a
35:31
dedicated ending that most people are going to work
35:34
towards. There are quote unquote bad
35:38
endings where you don't see the full thing.
35:42
But if you want to see the full story, you'll get to the final
35:45
ending. So yeah, there are decisions in
35:47
there, but I mean, you may be looking at one decision every
35:50
five hours or something. So yeah, that is a visual novel
35:54
through and through. Yes, it 100% and I don't think
35:59
that Slay the Princess is in the same vein as House in Fatima
36:03
Organa, but I think there are quite a lot of similarities
36:07
about it because it is very much make a decision and it will
36:10
impact what you do. I don't think there's gameplay
36:12
to this game, but I wouldn't go as far as to just say, well,
36:17
it's an experience because that's what I said about Dear
36:19
Ester, and I think Dear Ester has more gameplay elements to it
36:23
than what Say the Princess does. It's.
36:26
More immediate in that you're controlling a camera and yes,
36:32
you're moving. However, in terms of the impact
36:37
that you have over the story, you obviously have more impact
36:42
in, say, the Princess. It all comes down to how you
36:46
define the gaminess of a game. And it's an interesting
36:50
exploration that we've been on in the last couple of months
36:53
with the games that we've played.
36:57
And as you know, my, my thought is always does it?
37:00
Does it matter either way? It's an experience of some form.
37:04
And if you get something out of it, you get something out of it.
37:06
And if you don't, you don't like that's.
37:08
That's it. Yeah.
37:10
So yeah, I think it's been an interesting exploration.
37:12
And we've not planned this, but we just happen to play this kind
37:16
of cycle of games. Yeah, it's, I think it's we're
37:21
looking for games that are slightly easier to jump in and
37:23
out of with how how crazy timelines are at the moment with
37:27
with the wedding and everything and all of that stuff.
37:31
So it I'm glad that we've played these games where we have though
37:35
like kind of together. So let let's touch on the visual
37:40
and then the sound of this game. So the the visuals of this game,
37:45
they, they change a bit throughout the game depending on
37:47
the decisions that you make. And occasionally the Princess
37:49
will seem a lot more jagged and insane.
37:51
And another time she'll look like a innocent, wholesome
37:55
Princess. But what?
37:56
What do you think about the look and the graphics of this game?
37:59
I really like the look of this game.
38:00
It's it's unique. It's one of those games where
38:04
you look at a steal from it and you know what it is?
38:09
I also like the fact that there is some movement in the in the
38:14
in the backgrounds and it's not completely static.
38:19
Yeah, I really like the look of it.
38:21
And it's not full of colour. It's it's black and white for
38:25
the most part. And yeah, it just, it just is
38:30
unique and that goes a long way in my book in terms of the the
38:37
sound and the voice work. I think you can tell that the
38:44
the male actor here is doing a lot of the voices himself, and
38:49
there's not a lot of variation in that.
38:52
And then you've got the actress who plays the Princess, I think.
38:57
I think the voice acting is good.
39:01
Yeah. I just find that they've not
39:04
masked the fact that it's the single person doing a lot of the
39:07
male voices. Maybe that's by design though,
39:11
so I don't know. Yeah, I to be honest with you, I
39:15
didn't notice that as much. But now that you say it, yes,
39:21
100% that that that that's the case.
39:25
I mean, I'm, I'm with you. I think that the the the design
39:29
of the graphics of this game very much suited to what the
39:32
game is. It, it fits well.
39:35
But the one thing that I will say, the voice acting is great,
39:37
but I really like the music in this game.
39:40
I think the music in this game is really well suited to the
39:42
situations and scenarios that you find yourself in.
39:45
And particularly the music that is at the start of every run
39:50
where you're in the in the forest heading up to the path
39:53
and it's like a piano that plays.
39:55
I think it's really relaxing in the same kind of vein.
39:59
It's like Minecraft's piano music, maybe, Yeah.
40:03
But yeah, I, I think that the music and the visuals of this
40:06
game really match up very well with what this this game is
40:09
trying to do and what this game is.
40:12
So what do you reckon then? This comes in with a score of 90
40:18
and it comes in at, I can't remember what I said.
40:20
It's like 82 or 83 on the list. Do you think that it deserves
40:24
its spots in the open critic list?
40:26
Before we get there, I'm going to ask you a question.
40:29
Given that it's just gone Halloween a week ago and this is
40:37
a horror love story, what? What do you think of the horror
40:41
horror elements of this game? Did did it get you at all?
40:47
How's it compared to other horror experiences?
40:51
Well, last. Year we did Mortuary assistant,
40:56
didn't we? And then in years before that
40:58
we've done primarily Resident Evil games.
41:01
I think we did Silent Hill two in there at some point as well.
41:05
I I didn't find this game scary. I'd like when you said this game
41:08
has got horror elements to it. I was like, OK, cool.
41:11
This is before I played it and like it's the second or third
41:18
run, I think where she turns into a demon.
41:19
I was like, OK, that's quite freaky, but nothing to the point
41:24
where I was like, I'm bothered by that.
41:27
It's very much psychological horror.
41:29
Like I said earlier, it isn't kind of, yeah.
41:33
I mean, the the demon ending was the scariest that it got.
41:39
However, like there was one where she turns into a witch,
41:43
which I thought was fine there. The thing is, I don't think that
41:50
the devs are trying to scare you with this game.
41:52
They say it's a horror love story, but the horror is very
41:56
tame. I don't think there's anything
41:58
that's going to scare people with this game unless you Jesus
42:03
Christ, that will scare me. Then when my Alexa goes off
42:05
behind me when I'm talking about horror games, Jesus Christ, stop
42:10
listening to me, you creep. But yeah, I am I, I don't think
42:15
that it's very horror esque. It's got a couple of creepy
42:18
elements to it, but yeah. I think it could creep out kids
42:23
if kids played it. I think some of the imagery's
42:28
quite dark. It's quite gruesome as well.
42:32
There were like the bits where she's chewing her arm off.
42:35
It's unpleasant, and unpleasant is a good word for it.
42:38
Like when you see even the visuals of the text as in the
42:43
font, it changes depending on the playthrough that you're on.
42:49
So the more wicked or evil she is, you get red text and it
42:55
looks all distorted and the visuals get more and more
43:01
grotesque and her voice as well changes.
43:08
So I think there are definitely like I was, I was playing this,
43:12
I was playing it in a monastery in which I stayed overnight and
43:15
in Japan. And Becca came in and saw that I
43:19
was playing it and I thought she's going to think what, on
43:21
what on earth is he playing? So I think you feel she's.
43:25
Passed that, now she knows you well enough to know that you're
43:27
weird anyway, so you're fine. Yeah, yeah.
43:29
But but I thought, I thought she, she might be thinking why
43:32
is he playing that? Like we're on our honeymoon?
43:34
Why is he playing that game and stop playing games.
43:39
Well, well, yeah, I was going to play games anyway, but yeah, so
43:44
I think it's definitely there. But I also agree this is not the
43:47
sort of horror that kind of lingers on your mind.
43:50
Like, once you put the game down, it's gone.
43:54
And I think that very initial sort of creepiness doesn't last
44:01
on subsequent playthroughs because you kind of get to the
44:04
point where you know what the game is doing and it's like, OK,
44:08
it's just a different spin on it.
44:11
But yeah, I wanted to talk about it, given that we've not had a
44:14
dedicated horror game for Halloween, so.
44:20
We would have done, but we we struggled.
44:22
Well, it was primarily my schedule.
44:23
We struggled to to record this before you went away.
44:27
Otherwise this would have been out for Halloween.
44:28
But nevermind, better late than never.
44:30
Yes. So what do you recommend?
44:32
Do you reckon that the the game deserves to be in the top 100
44:36
list? To my surprise, I do.
44:41
I wouldn't have thought that whilst playing it.
44:47
Certainly initially I don't think I was particularly wowed
44:51
by this game. But I think the more I played it
44:53
and I got what it was doing and the way it's putting a spin on
44:58
things that and questioning some of the some of the foundations
45:05
that that we've come to know with games, I think it's
45:08
interesting and it's different. And I would take that over sort
45:14
of many other games that are on these lists and add in the fact
45:20
that it it does have this message of actually death is an
45:26
important concept and we need death to value life, which
45:34
sounds so counterintuitive. And I think as you get older,
45:37
you appreciate that a bit more than you do.
45:40
So that that message, I don't, I don't know why.
45:46
I think it was the way that it was presented and the way that
45:49
it ruminates on that idea. And it doesn't necessarily
45:52
answer it straight out. It just leaves you to think
45:55
about it. I think the way it delivered
45:57
that was quite impactful. And then you take into account
46:02
that this is not linear storytelling.
46:06
You're, you're cycling, you're doing these cycles of, of
46:08
gameplay. The decisions are changing all
46:12
the time. You're not seeing all of them in
46:14
one playthrough. And it's got these interesting
46:21
visuals, interesting sound. So yeah, I, I just appreciate
46:27
it. I may play it again at some
46:30
point in the future. I'm not in a rush to play it
46:32
again, but I I value what it's doing.
46:34
So for that reason alone I'd say it does deserve to be here.
46:38
What about you? I don't, I don't think so.
46:43
And I was thinking about this earlier today when we talk about
46:46
do you think a game deserves to be in the top 100 or not?
46:49
And I don't feel bad when I say that a game doesn't deserve to
46:52
be in there because like genuinely, some of the games
46:53
that we've played have been crap.
46:56
But I think that there is, particularly in my head, it's
47:02
kind of like a thing where it's like, if you say that it doesn't
47:06
deserve to be here, does that mean that you don't think it's a
47:08
good game? Or do you not think that it's
47:09
good enough? And I don't think that this game
47:14
deserves to be in the top 100 list.
47:16
But that doesn't mean to say that I don't think that this is
47:18
a great game, because I think that it was really enjoyable
47:21
and. There's a lot of value in it.
47:23
Yeah. And I'd recommend it to anyone
47:26
that just listen to this and doesn't mind you about spoilers
47:29
we've thrown you away. But it is worth the experience
47:31
because you'll get different endings to what me and Dan got.
47:36
So I'd say that no, it doesn't deserve to be here, but it's
47:40
certainly worth a look. And I thought that it was really
47:42
good. And I think it's averted my
47:44
expectations because my expectations were, I don't know
47:47
what the hell this is. Yeah.
47:49
And I think it's going insane for me as well.
47:52
And it all comes down to we've, we've asked, we've, we've kind
47:56
of ruminated on this idea of what it means to be in the top
48:01
100 games and how do you say whether a game deserves to be
48:05
there or not. And actually, I think the
48:08
conclusion that we've sort of come to is that everyone's top
48:11
100 will be slightly different and the things that they value
48:14
are going to be different anyway.
48:17
And for me, if, if you're doing something a bit different and
48:22
you have a message and to me that is quite valuable.
48:30
And I would, I would place that in the top 100 compared to 4-5
48:37
GTA games or whatever. But yeah, it's all down to the
48:43
way you, you, you place value on things and, and everyone's way
48:47
that they place value on things is going to be slightly
48:49
different and that's OK. And yeah, so, so basically I've
48:55
eliminated the need for this podcast.
48:57
There you go, don't listen anymore.
48:58
Thanks. But like I said, I will put in
49:02
if I remember, I should remember to put in a poll if you listen
49:07
on the Spotify app or on Spotify on your desktop or whatever,
49:11
I'll put a poll in the like the info of this this episode about
49:17
whether or not you you tend to have the, the good or the bad
49:19
paths when you play games, because I'm genuinely interested
49:22
to see what that looks like. Good, bad or in between?
49:26
Good, bad or ugly, as Clint Eastwood would request.
49:32
But yeah, so that is slay the process.
49:35
So we, we've mentioned it a couple of times, but what are we
49:38
doing next time please? We're doing hollow night.
49:43
I've completed Hollow Night so yes, just waiting for you to
49:48
give it. Just waiting for me.
49:49
I dabble and yeah, I, I, I quite enjoyed it.
49:54
Spoilers for that episode. I've played, played a couple of
49:58
hours of it, yeah, but I'm not really a Metroidvania kind of
50:02
guy. But we'll see.
50:02
I'll play some more of it and we'll see what happens.
50:04
Yeah, I got into it. It took me a while, but I got
50:06
into a bit of a rhythm with it and I completed it.
50:08
And yeah, I, I, I, I get the appeal.
50:13
Not my favourite Metroidvania, but yes.
50:16
Maybe maybe the real Hollow night is the friends that we
50:20
made along the way. That's what we can take away
50:22
from Hollow Night. There you go.
50:25
Put us always. You can find us on social media.
50:27
We're primarily on Instagram. Or you can e-mail us at the long
50:30
shortest podcast@hotmail.com. And yeah, we hope that you've
50:36
enjoyed this episode on say, the Princess.
50:38
Apologies that it's taken a bit longer, but you know, life
50:43
saving Mr Blobby saving Mr Blobby from making the wrong
50:48
decision down the aisle. Bring back to his wedding first.
50:50
Went to his wedding first, I'll tell.
50:52
You. So this is another thing.
50:56
Yeah. At, at at the wedding.
50:59
You'll be happy to know, dear listener, for the wedding music
51:03
on my playlist was Mr Blobby. And we we both had a chuckle at
51:07
that. Everyone else thought we were a
51:09
bit bit mental, but yeah, no one.
51:12
Knew no one knew what was going on.
51:13
The music started playing a Mr Blobby.
51:15
And then Dan just looked intensely at me from the other
51:17
side of the room to see my reaction.
51:22
So yeah, good. Good to know that Mister Bobby
51:23
joined us. We and we laughed as as as we
51:28
do. And the children cried and alas,
51:33
I don't know. So there you go.
51:35
That's really the highlight of the wedding.
51:38
Yeah, it wasn't our first dance, though.
51:41
Shocking pity. Yes, quite.
51:45
But yes, we will see you. Dance.
51:50
Wasn't your first dance a Kermit song?
51:53
It wasn't Kermit, it was it was Willie Nelson's Rainbow
51:56
Collection. It was.
51:58
But yeah, obviously originally. Was your first dance a Kermit
52:01
song? Well, that is a blobby song.
52:04
Blobby song. That's right.
52:06
Well, yes, on that bombshell of Blobby and Kermit, we will.
52:09
We'll see you next time for Hollow Night.
52:11
That's the great I want to see. That is, maybe I'll do my Kermit
52:14
impression next time. We'll see what happens.
52:16
Do your blobby impression, please.
52:18
No, I can't do that. It's too embarrassing, too
52:20
humiliating. But until this fun sounds into
52:24
something completely ridiculous, we'll see you next time for
52:26
Hollow Night. In the meantime, take care,
52:28
Cheerio. See you on the next one.