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337: Building Executive Function Supports into Your Everyday Lives, with The Childhood Collective · Beautifully Complex

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: So I think this is a pattern that parents fall into.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: They're constantly closing loops for their kids. Like I said,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: they are the ones that are putting the dirty clothes
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: off the floor into the hamper. They're the ones that
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: are taking the dishes from the table to the sink.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And so the more we're just accommodating our kids in
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that way and closing all the loops for them, we're
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: not giving them the opportunity to practice closing that loop.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back to Beautifully Complex,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: every one. I'm really excited today to have part of
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: the Childhood Collective with me Katie Severson and Malory Yee,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about executive function and how
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: to really weave in some strategies into day to day life.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Because I think that's where we really see problems, right,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: That's where kids with ADHD, kids with autism, if they
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: have also executive function challenges, this is where they get
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: tripped up, is the little things that we're asking them
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: to do day to day. And I've had so many
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: parents say, well, my kids eight, they ought to be
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: able to get dressed by themselves. My kids tend they
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: should be able to get through the morning without me hovering, right,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: But as the three of us know, that's not always
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: the case. And so I'm glad we're going to jump
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: in and offer some insights and some strategies. Will you
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: all start by introducing yourselves so let everybody know who
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: you are and what you do.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Sure, so, thank you so so much for having us
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: on Penny. My name is Mallory Ye. I'm one third
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of the Childhood Collective. I'm a licensed child psychologist. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: have training in school psychology. I've done work in the schools,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I've done work in pediatricians' offices. I've done work in
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: private practice doing therapy but also evaluations for children with ADHD,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: autism and other common developmental concerns. But now doing the
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Childhood Collective along with Katie and Laurie.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm Katie Severson. I'm a speech language pathologist
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: and similar to mal I, had worked in private practice.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: We all kind of overlapped at one point in private
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: practice doing assessment. And the other third of the Childhood
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Collective is doctor Lori Long, another child psychologist, and she
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: actually had the idea to come together and create resources
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: for families who are getting that new ADHD diagnosis because
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: as you might know, you know, you get the diagnosis
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: of something like autism, and there tends to be this
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: kind of long checklist like here's all the boxes that
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: you needed, and with ADHD, which is very impactful to
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: families lives. Often parents are really not given a ton
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: of tools. Maybe they're suggested to take medication or try that,
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: but there's not a ton beyond that for parents. And
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: we definitely know the value and power of medication, but
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: also parent behavior training and supporting families kind of from
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: the ground up at home is a huge piece of it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: And so we started providing resources for the community about
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: gosh five six years ago now, and it's kind of
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: evolved into a lot of things. You know, we have
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: courses and a blog and podcast and all kinds of things.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: But we also recently added a course to help families
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: who are navigating ADHD at school, and that's another piece
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: of our kind of combined expertise and just really a
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: lot of times kids with ADHD, their main struggles aren't
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: the academic skills as much as the executive functions at school.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: So I would say, if we had one drum, it's
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: definitely executive functioning and helping families sort of figure this
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: out both in the home and school settings, and that's
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: what we're most passionate about.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would say another thing is we're also
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: all living this. Yes, we have a lot of us,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: you know, got our degrees before we realize we were
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: living it over before we were parents. So now we
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: kind of we we try to really bring our professional expertise,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: but through the lens of moms who some of us
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: have ADHD ourselves. We all have ADHD in our homes
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: in some way. Most of us are raising kids with ADHD.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So we joke sometimes we laugh about the recommendations that
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: we used to give to parents before you were parents,
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  Speaker 1: Like I can't I can't believe I used to tell
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: parents to do that because I would never, and I'm
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: definitely not doing that in my own home. So we
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: definitely try to bring this balance between our professional lives
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: and then actually living it. What's going on in our homes,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: what's realistic, what works, and what feels good.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's so different to get advice from
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: so who lives it versus somebody who just learned it right,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: and it makes all the difference. And you were talking
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: about how when kids get diagnosed with ADHD, there's very
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: little information. You know, my son was diagnosed with ADHD first,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: and it was two thousand and eight, and there literally
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: was nothing. There was Attitude magazine and Halliwell had Driven
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: to Distraction book, and I think that was really it,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: and it's a big part of the reason why I
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: ended up doing this work. But we had to figure
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: it out on our own, and nobody said, Hey, there's
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: this thing called executive function and here's what it is,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and this is how it's probably impacting all of these
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: things that you're seeing as behavior issues, they're actually you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: underlying skilled deficits or different wiring. So do you want
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: to start by letting everybody know exactly what we mean
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: when we say executive function for anybody who hasn't heard
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: of it yet.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I love this question. And you know, I
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: think we do hear more and more about executive functions,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: but a lot of people, like you mentioned, don't really
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: know exactly what that means. And so one sort of
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: simple analogy we like to use is that the executive
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: functions are kind of like the GPS in our brain.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: And so I'm getting in my car and I have
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: a destination in my mind, an endpoint or a goal,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: and executive function helps me to set that goal. Maybe
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: I'm going to clean the kitchen or bake a cake. Right,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: But then with the GPS in our car, it really
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: quickly calculates the most efficient way to get there, and
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: what are the steps, what are the roads you're going
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: to go on, where you're going to turn, And then
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: as you start to drive, the GPS tells you, oh,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: you know what, there's a roadblock up here, or there's construction.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: We need to go around this. And similarly, in our brains,
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: the executive functions help us to figure out the fastest,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: most efficient way to clean the kitchen. Oh no, that's
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: not going to work. The dishwasher is full, and I
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: forgot to run it, So I need a new plan
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: to getting these dishes clean. And one of the pieces
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: that we see with our kids a lot of times
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: that is such an important executive function is that inhibition
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: piece where you can easily become Oh, I'm cleaning the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: kitchen and I'm going to throw this towel in the laundry,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: and then I realized I didn't do the laundry, and
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of on this little side quest now over here,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: and that happens so quickly. And one of the ways
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: that we can support our kids is building up those
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: executive functioning skills to make a plan and figure out
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: how to implement it and how to kind of stop
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: themselves from side quests. Well, you love side quests, but
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: it really can rob you of your time and not
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: allow you to get to your goal. And so that's
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: what we're thinking about when we talk about the executive functions.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: And I think it's really important for parents to understand
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: that all kids are developing their executive functions up through
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: the mid twenties. So if your child is struggling in
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: this area, they're not alone in that. But we do
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: know that kids with ADHD are often delayed about thirty
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: percent in their executive functions compared to their peers. So
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: you have, you know, a nine year old, they might
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: have executive functioning skills that are more consistent with a
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: six year old. And we love that reframe for parents
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: because to your example about getting dressed, it's not that
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: your child is so naughty and doesn't care and doesn't
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: love you and you're a terrible parent, right, And we
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: can go down these kind of rabbit holes, but really
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: when we reframe it and we say, well, yeah, he
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: knows how to put his shoes on, he knows how
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: to put his pants on and button his zipper, you know,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: zip his zipper, button his buttons. But what's really happening
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: often below the surface is an issue with the executive
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: functioning getting started, staying on task, not losing focus. And again,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: when we reframe it, we can say, oh, okay, so
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: it actually has to do with how his brain is developing,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: and it really helps us that in and of itself
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: doesn't actually change the challenge, but it really changes how
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: we view it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the term side quest. I had many
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: this morning. Yes I don't have ADHD, but I like
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: all the things that to be done. Like I think
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: anybody can relate to having a lot on your plate
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and getting distracted trying to manage multiple things at one time,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and you end up somewhere else entirely. And I think
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: that's kind of a regular experience for a lot of
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: our kids with ADHD. How do we then help them,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: How do we help them to build the skills to navigate,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: because they do want to do it, as you were
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: just saying, Katie, they do want to please us, They
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: want to participate like any other kid would write like.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: They see the difference, and they would like to be successful.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So how do we bridge that gap.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest things to keep in
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: mind is what we talk about as making the invisible visible.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So these executive function strategies are kind of nebulous and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: hard to define, and a lot of times we're talking
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: about things that are not concrete, and kids with ADHD,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: especially live in the here and now, and if it's
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: not like right in front of me, it doesn't exist.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: These things that are a little bit more abstract, more invisible,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: they have a hard time acting on it when it's
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: there in the moment. But I think this is a
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: huge challenge for parents at home. I'm thinking specifically of
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: one specific example, So, how do we support kids at
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: home with executive function? Right, if you're parenting a child
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: with ADHD, this may sound familiar. Loops are constantly being
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: left unclosed at home. There's stuff everywhere. There's you know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: they get home from school, they pull off all their
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: clothes and it's littering the ground. They unpack their backpack
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and everything's on the counter. There's stuff everywhere. They're not
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: closing loops, they're not finishing the task, they're starting tasks,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: leaving things unfinished, and parents get in a position of
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: being really frustrated because they're like, I'm constantly closing your loop.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I'm the one that's picking up your laundry and putting
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: it in the hamper. I'm the one that's putting your
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: folder in your lunch box back in your backpack and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: hanging the backpack up where it belongs. So I think
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: this is twofold here. One we need to give everything
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: a home. So this is something that we can do
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: as parents, is set up the environment for our kids
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: where everything has a place, because if it doesn't have
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: a home, if it doesn't have a place, well it's
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: going to be anywhere but where it's supposed to be right.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: So one way that we can help our child with
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: this executive function at home of like being more organized,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: is making sure everything has a home and your child
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: knows where that home is. You might even label it again,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: making that invisible a little bit more visible for them,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: or maybe even take a picture of what it looks
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: like when that thing is in its home. So it
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: takes this invisible, nebulous concept and makes it very concrete
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: for your child. And again, we're meeting them where they're at.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: We're meeting them where their skill level is with this
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: at the moment. So one piece is making sure that
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: everything has a home, and the other piece is making
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: sure that you're helping your child close their loops and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: you're not closing all of the loops for them. So
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I think this is a pattern that parents fall into.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: They're constantly closing loops for their kids. Like I said,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: they're the ones that are putting the dirty clothes off
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the floor into the hamper. They're the ones that are
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: taking the dishes from the table to the sink. And
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: so the more we're just accommodating our kids in that
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: way and closing all the loops for them, we're not
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: giving them the opportunity to practice closing that loop. So
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I think that's one more way that we can kind
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of grow that executive function support at home for our kids,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: kind of meet them where they are, making sure we're
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: not doing all of this for them. It's a beautiful balance.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: We've got to meet kids where they are, but we
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: also have to have expectations for them and we have
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to be building these skills at the same time.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: And I think on that same note, when you're thinking
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: about this, like if you're trying to apply this to
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: your own life and you're like, Okay, the main issue
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: I'll speak to my own house is we recently moved
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: and we have kind of this mudroom area, but there's
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: not really like a clear system for the mudroom yet.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: So everything when the kids walk in through the garage
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: door gets dropped on the ground and we're talking like backpacks,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: water bottles, lunchboxes, soccer cleats, just whatever it is. And
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: then the next person to come through gets really irritated.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: It's me. I'm the person that comes through, like what
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: am I supposed to do with all this stuff here?
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: And I start moving it and you know, putting it away.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: And so this is a real life working example for
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: me where I'm talking with my kids and we're saying, Okay,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: what do we need to do to make this mudroom
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: work for us? And literally bringing our kids along on
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: that journey. That's such a huge piece of executive functioning
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: is that for parents? And you mentioned this two penny, Like,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: we have so much on our plates, right, if it's
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: back to school season, we have so many things to
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: keep track of, it's if it's the holiday season, we're
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: all like running around like little elves. There's so much
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: that we're in charge of, and we do it in
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: our minds and it really is quote invisible to our kids, right,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: they don't see it, and so same with us. That
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I might design that's so cute, and I found it
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: on Pinterest and it looked really good, and I went
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: to the store and I got the hooks. But now
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: my kids are not invested in that. They don't have
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: buy in, They don't really understand that system. And maybe
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: even in my excitement to imitate Pinterest, I stuck the hooks,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: you know, four and a half feet off the ground,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: and my kids can't even reach that high. So it's
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: taking the time and really being cognizant. And I think, again,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: we just live in a world where we have so
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: much that we need to get done in a day.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: It's almost impossible, truly, But slowing down and saying, okay,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: what is the problem, Like why is it such a
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: hard thing for you to get your socks? You know,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: your shoes are over here on this little shelf, but
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: we can't get socks. And they'll say, you know, okay,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: it's because my shoes or my socks are over in
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: my dresser in my bedroom. So then we can problem
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: solve that and be like, okay, what do we need
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: to do. Let's get a basket. Maybe it's not a
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: cute basket. Let's just grab a basket, put all the
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: socks right next to the shoes. Or we have backpacks.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: How many bags do we need to hang up? You
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: know we have soccer and the and two backpacks. Okay,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: so five hooks, six hooks? Where should we put them?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Here?
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: You show me how high up you want your hook
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: to be. And again, we're bringing our kids along in
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: this process, and parents don't realize it because it's just
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: it's something that we automatically do, and we automatically problem solve.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: We circumvent problems all day long. We're like professional fixers. Okay,
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: But when we can bring our kids into it, it's
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: one teaching them how to do it for themselves, which
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: is the ultimate goal, and it's also helping a lot
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: with that buy in piece because they feel like they
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: got a special job in that. And I will say
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: one encouraging thing if you're listening and you're like, yeah,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: I just do not think that we can have homes
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: for everything, and I want to encourage you that in
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: my family everyone has ADHD and it really does help
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: us over time. Like it is work. It took me
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: a very long time to teach my kids. Okay, The
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: iPads and the chargers always go in this spot and
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: it's constant repetition. This is where we really get into
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: teaching our kids and rewarding them when they're doing a
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: great job and praising them. But it is a very slow,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: uphill project. And at the same time, you're investing time somewhere.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: You're either investing time in teaching them where to put
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: it and helping them learn, or you're investing time in
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: searching for it. Or buying a new one because you
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: couldn't find it. So what I've found in my own family,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: and I say this as a person who really struggles
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: with a lot of these things, is if we can
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: find those places and assign them and everybody knows, and
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: then we just practice the heck out of it, it
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: really does save us a lot of time and kind
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: of mental load in the long run. So if you're
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: listening and you're like, there's no way, just pick one thing,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: one or two things to start. Maybe it's lunchboxes or keys.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Keys were always getting lost, or the remote. The remote
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: gets lost in our house still, but there is a
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: spot for the remote and anyone who picks it up
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: should know this is where it goes. So maybe just
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: starting small is one way to make it a little
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: bit more manage.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can always bring a professional into help too,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Like if you really struggle with organization yourself, you can
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: hire someone to help you, maybe room by room, or
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: just a few ideas at a time. I'm definitely a
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: loop closer. I love this terminology. I never thought about
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: it that way. And my kid is twenty three now
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: and he still leaves all his loops open everywhere but
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I've learned finally to not be the loop closer anymore.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: And I bring him in and I just say, take
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: a look at the kitchen counters and see what you
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: think you know, and really trying to put that on
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: him to figure out. But for years I was doing
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: everything because it was easier and it took less time
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and when I didn't yet understand, And is what Katie
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: was just describing that I can frontload some time and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: it's gonna save me later and it's gonna really build
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: the skills that I want my kids to have. If
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I do it for them, they're not learning anything.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the hard part about not letting
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: our kids close their own loop is then they never
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: get the satisfaction of finishing the task. So then they
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: never get that like feel good, like oh I did that,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: or like that looks really nice, or it feels good
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: when I've put all my things where they belong. They
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: don't ever get to like access that internal reinforcement, that
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: satisfaction from following something from start to finish. And guess what,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: that makes it harder to even start things. If you're
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: not getting the satisfaction of finishing things, it just it spirals,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: and then you know, loops are constantly being left open,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and I, Penny, just like you, I have to always
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: stop myself and say, I know the easy route right
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: now is to put the clothes in the hamper. That's
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the easiest thing to do in this moment, but I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: know that's not going to serve my family in the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: long run, and so it is kind of taking the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: temporary discomfort with the idea that the long term payout
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: will be there. Yeah.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: And on that same note, I think there's a ton
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: of value in the idea of doing it together. You know.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: I think we have this idea of like either I'm
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: going to close the loop or they're going to close
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: the loop, and when that's not happening, it does start
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: to build a lot of resentment and maybe even frustration
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: some shame, like oh man, I couldn't teach my kid
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: how to do this. But when we do things together,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: that is a game changer. So my daughter just turned
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: eleven and she wanted to redo her room, redecorate it
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: as all eleven year old. She's like, I just have
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: a new personality now that I'm eleven, and I just
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: really need my room to reflect I'm like, okay, tell
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: me about your personality.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I love to hear about this.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: But you know, yeah, but in that case, I think
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: about all the loops that go into a project like that. Right,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: we started with going through this was the boring stuff.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: She was not impressed at all by me. But I'm saying, Okay,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: we need to go through your drawers. We need to
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: get rid of clothes that you don't wear anymore. They're
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: too small, too short. Let's give them to your cousin,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: and let's think about and draw a plan before we
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: just buy a bunch of furniture. Where do you want
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: your things? We had a big chair in her room
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: and there really wasn't room for that, so we had
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: to think about that, like where's your cozy space going
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: to be? These kind of things. Again, this is all
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: building executive functioning. But to Mallory's point, when we got
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: done with that room, and it took us a few
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: weekends and a lot of work, we painted. It was
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: an overhaul, but she felt so good and she's still
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: it's been a couple months now and she still will
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: say to me, I just.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Love my room.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: I love it, and I've done my kids' rooms. Right,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: we started with nurseries before they were even born, and
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: there just really wasn't that sense of appreciation because it
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: was all picked for them. And so as our kids
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: get older doing things together, they do pick up on
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: what we're thinking, problems that we're solving, the way that
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: we're thinking about it, And that's a huge piece of
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: it is is the value of doing it together. So
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of us have in our mind
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: this jump between either I'm going to do it or
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: they're going to do it. So one encouragement to you
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: is to maybe find that middle ground of we're going
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: to do it together and they're going to become more
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: and more independent in this task slowly, but it does
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: take time. And I think that's really such a confusing
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: thing about our culture today is that, especially on social media,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: everyone has a quick fix for everything, and so much
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: of parenting, if you're really in it and you're in
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: the trenches, it's not a quick fix. It's an every
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: day slow process. You might mess up, you might apologize
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: to your kids, you might try something one day and
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: then be like that's didn't feel right. We're not doing
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: that again, And it is an ongoing process where things
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: get refined, and then you have a second kid and
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: they're totally different and you're like, actually, none of that'scratched
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: at all. So I think that's such an important thing
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: for parents to hear and to be encouraged by, is
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: if it feels hard, it is hard. There isn't some
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: script that would just teach your child executive function. This
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: is the day to day tasks that you're doing. And
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: the good news is it's the day to day tasks
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: that you're already doing, so it can be both.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: If it feels hard, it is hard. I love that
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: validation because we often think, well, why is it so
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: hard for me? It's not hard for anybody else. We
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: just don't see that their struggle for everyone. One thing
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: I was going to mention as we've been talking is
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: that we also don't want to tell them what to
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: do right. So if the shoes are in the middle
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: of the kitchen floor, we don't want to say I
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: need you to get your shoes and go put them
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: in the shoe cubby, right, because we want them to
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: work that out. So that second layer for me was
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: always oh, I see your shoes in the floor, and
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: then just waiting right because he can figure that out.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: But I need to give him the opportunity. The other
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: thing was always like just narrating all of the things that,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: as you were saying, that we take for granted that
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: happen inside. Our kids can get value from that. They
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: can learn skills from that if we are narrating. So
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: if I'm just getting frustrated and then I problem solve
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: in my head and I move on, They're not learning that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: They're not learning that someone can get frustrated. This is
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: how you work it out, and this is where you
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: go from there, right, So a couple more layers on
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: top of that can be really helpful, I've found as well.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think with both of those points, you're spot on.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Just that one that you just mentioned, Yeah, I used
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: to when I was still in private practice doing therapy.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I would tell parents to do,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: which probably surprise them, was be a little more transparent
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: with your emotions, like let kids feel alone. And this
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: is more broad too, but speaking just to emotions, a
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: lot of times kids feel alone in their emotions because
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: they don't realize that other people feel these things too.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: They don't realize that other people worry. Sometimes they don't
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: realize that some people feel ashamed. Sometimes they don't realize
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: that other people feel embarrassed sometimes. So the more that
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: we're kind of as parents were like inside managing that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and we want to put on a cool face for
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: our for our kids, although that doesn't always happen. Sometimes
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: verbalizing what's going on inside is really to the benefit
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: of our kids. A they realize they're not alone, and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: B they see what we're doing to problem solve, whether
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: it's managing big emotions or it's managing the detour on
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: the way to school. You say, oh, gosh, you know
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that light isn't working today, so we have to take
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a right turn today. I guess I could take the
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: backway to school, you'd have to come in the other door. So,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: like you're verbalizing your thought process to benefit your child,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: they're realizing you don't just automatically have the answer all
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: of the time, that you're kind of doing your own
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: problem solving, and that really helps with executive function. And
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to your first point, Twopenny, rather than saying like you
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: need to put your shoes away, what you're talking about
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: is using declarative language, and the use of declarative language
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: is great for growing your child's executive function. And Katie
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: does such an eloquent job talking about declarative language. I'll
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: let her do that because I think this is just
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: another key way that parents don't have to add add
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a ton to their plate at home, but they can
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: be growing executive function at home.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah, I love talking about declarative language. It's interesting
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: because as a speech therapist, you know, we spend a
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: lot of time working with kids, obviously, but this was
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: always one of my strategies for parents, and they're like, wait,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: I thought it was the kid that was going to
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: be doing the work. But it feels weird to use
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: declarative language. Essentially exactly what you said, Penny, you're just
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: speaking things out loud. Oh, I noticed that it's really
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: cloudy outside. I wonder if it's going to rain. And
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: then you just wait a second and you let your
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: child process that, especially if you have a child who
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: is a slower processor. Don't assume that they immediately listened
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: and heard you and processed it and understood that. That
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: means they need a jacket or an umbrella, right, But
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: give it a little time. And what I love about
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: declarative language is that you can just really layer as
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: much as you need to. So you might start with, oh,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: I noticed it's really cloudy and it looks like it
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: might rain, and then if your child is like yup
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: and they're heading out the door in the take, you
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: can say, oh, I wonder what we might need if
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: it does rain, right, And so it's easy to then
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: build in a little bit more support and a little
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: bit more support without jumping to hey, it's cloudy, go
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: get your umbrella, or worst case us, just grabbing the
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: umbrellas and throwing them in the car. Because again, it's
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: that thought process that we're speaking out loud, and it
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: does feel a little bit strange to make open ended
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: statements when nobody says anything back. So again I always
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: like to think for parents, like how are you actually
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: putting this into practice? When you try this, it's gonna
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: feel weird because you're like, I'm speaking to an audience
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: of no one. But it's really valuable for our kids
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: to be able to hear again, like you said that
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: inner monologue or those inner thoughts, and then how are
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: we going to problem solve that. I think that's a
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: really valuable, valuable skill. It's actually in our top three
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: things that we talk about a lot for executive function
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: is that using that declarative language. And it's not just
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: a speech therapy thing. It's something that we can all
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: do as parents to grow our kids awareness of what's
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: going on around them.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: And wait a lot longer than is comfortable, make it weird.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: This is what I learned from Seth Perler, Like you
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: just keep waiting, keep like we talk too much as parents.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's part of that fixing and problem solving.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: But if we don't give them the space to figure
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: it out on their own, how are they ever going
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: to learn to do that? And it is so super valuable,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Like if you wait, they will likely answer or say
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: something at some point, but they're used to you just
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: going on and so they don't realize yet that they're
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: supposed to say anything. Probably, you know.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: It's like you know, once she's done talking, I know
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: she's going to repeat herself again a little more succinctly.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: That's when I'll listen. They're learned to just kind of
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: tune you out until you raise your voice or you
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: sound a lot more serious. So, yeah, you have to
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: wait a lot longer than feels comfortable, because these kids
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: with delayed executive function do often have slower processing speed,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: And again it's not them being defiant or naughty or
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: hoping to get out of it. They need more time
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: to process that information and decide what to do with it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when my kid was little, somehow I figured out
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: that I just needed to count to five in my
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: head before I expected a response, because I expected a
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: response immediately, right, that's what we normally do. And it
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: was a game changer. I went from thinking he never listened,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: he never responds to He almost always listens and responds
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: if I just give him enough time and I give
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: him that quiet space of me not talking right to
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: get there made a huge, huge difference, And I think
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: it's a really valuable strategy for sure. Anything else you
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: want to add before we wrap up about executive function
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: and living with kids and other adults who struggle with that,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I think mainly it's just the main mindset set shift
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that we need to meet our kids where they're at.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And a lot of times the struggles that are happening
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: at home when we're kind of clashing with our kids,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: when we feel like they're not doing what we want
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: them to do. Again, our kids want to do well.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: They don't want to be in constant struggle with you
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and feel like they're never meeting your expectations. They want
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to meet your expectations. We have to meet them where
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: they're at and then slowly help them take steps forward
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: as we grow these skills. And I think that that
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: mindset shift is the biggest game changer because it totally
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: changes how you approach your kids at home.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: You guys have a freebee that you're offering to everyone.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: It'll be linked up in the show notes. Great. Yeah.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: So we have created a few different resources I think
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: based on this talk today, the best one for us
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: to share would be six Keys to Raising a Happy
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: and Independent Child with ADHD. And that's just a free
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: guide that we created with six strategies that parents can
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: use and things that we we felt like, if we
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: were sitting with you in our office or at coffee
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: as a friend, what are the things we would really
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: want you to start with and learn about ADHD. So
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: that's just a great resource that you can check out
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: and it is a guide with you know, lots of
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: suggestions and things like that for you if you're especially
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: if you're new to the diagnosis or you feel like
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: maybe you've been trying some things but it's not really working.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: It can be a really helpful reframe and kind of
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: clean slate.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Awesome and tell everybody where they can find you online.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're most active on our Instagram at the Childhood Collective.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: That's probably where we spend most of our time. We
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: are also, you know, on TikTok and Facebook and some
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: of the other platforms, and then we do have a podcast,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: Shining with ADHD, and that is a really wonderful resource.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just the three of us talking and other
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: times we have guests like yourself, Penny, and it's been
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: a really nice way to just interview different professionals, parents,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: all kinds of people that are on this journey of ADHD,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: and so that's definitely something that's worth checking out.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for the work that you're doing, and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I just love this partnership that you guys have and
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: what you're working on to help families like yours. It's
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: really powerful stuff. It's needed.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity and
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: for taking the time to chat with us. We love
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: being here.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Awesome well. The show notes are available on the website
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com. And I will see everybody
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: in the next episode. Take good care. I see you.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: share it with someone who needs it and leave a
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: quick review so others can find this support too. When
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: here with the tools, coaching, and community to help you
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: regulated kids dot com.