Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the Dream Team Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of The Five Doctors

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Talks to the Dream Team Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of The Five Doctors · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Do you know I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward
• 0:04
  to this commentary. A chance of re meeting old
• 0:07
  friends. There was 1 chap we tried to get
• 0:10
  hold of. What was his name used to run
• 0:12
  this podcast? Joe Ford who?
• 0:18
  Hello and welcome back to A Hamster with a Blood Penknife
• 0:22
  the Doctor Who commentary podcast that may have given you
• 0:25
  a clue of where we're going. I'm sorry.
• 0:29
  Was he just π? That's what he said.
• 0:32
  There, he didn't, he said. He's just Pi, The Greek letter
• 0:36
  π. Surely you know some basic
• 0:38
  mathematics, Fraser. Call in the capital, call in the
• 0:43
  capital, can you hear me over call in the capital?
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  Oh, there I am. I mean, there we are.
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  What is it? Peter Davidson says.
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  Do nothing until I arrive. That's just like me, yeah.
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  Touch nothing. Indeed, who does he think he is?
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  To lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose.
• 1:06
  I know what it says I. Know what it says, but what does
• 1:09
  it mean? Oh my God, someone cares on
• 1:12
  track quick. Hello, we're here to celebrate
• 1:16
  20 years of Doctor Who and and not quite our 20th commentary
• 1:22
  together, but not very far off to do the Five Doctors, which we
• 1:27
  talked about doing for the 60th anniversary and then time round
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  like it does. I mean, since then, let's be
• 1:35
  honest, another podcast has popped into existence and been
• 1:39
  an enormous success. The library of impossible
• 1:42
  things. Yet.
• 1:44
  As. You have both been on.
• 1:46
  Cy Heart. Yes.
• 1:47
  Well, yeah, I know. Sorry about that.
• 1:49
  We've dampened your door with our stories.
• 1:51
  But I'd also Fraser, I've seen you popping up on Trap One and
• 1:55
  the Polish Box and various other places in the meantime as well.
• 2:00
  Oh, you know me. I'll talk to anyone.
• 2:02
  What a whore. Oh, sorry.
• 2:04
  I promise I wouldn't be rude. So yeah, it's it's been a busy
• 2:09
  old time since we we've finished our Planet of the Spiders, so
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  it's nice to be back. But what I would like to say to
• 2:15
  everybody who is sort of looking at the schedules and going well,
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  where is the dream team of PSI, Fraser and Joe?
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  We have in fact just diarised. So we won't do it during the
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  recording because I've tried to stop doing that nowadays.
• 2:29
  Several things that we're going to talk about in the future.
• 2:32
  So, so this is the the opening gambit of the next wave of the
• 2:37
  trilogy of of what? What are we?
• 2:40
  Are we? The three Who rules?
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  Oh, that'll do. But yes, the five doctors.
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  Now I'm going to try and get a handle on this before we go into
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  this. OK.
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  Obviously I was. Far.
• 2:58
  Too young to be. I mean, was I even around?
• 3:01
  I was. I was very young I.
• 3:02
  Was well, I would hope you were. I was 5 when this was on.
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  I didn't come in until Battlefield, so this wasn't even
• 3:08
  on my radar, Fraser. When this was broadcast, I
• 3:13
  celebrated my 4th birthday. Oh yes, because it's it's the
• 3:18
  actual your actual birthday, isn't it?
• 3:20
  Yes, so I suppose it's down to the old granddad amongst us to
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  tell us well what it was like. 8 years old And there is a there
• 3:28
  is a theory that Doctor Who that is broadcast when you're 8 is
• 3:32
  the best Doctor Who in the whole world ever.
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  And so I was 8 years old. And.
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  This was the best thing ever. This was the most exciting,
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  wonderful, brilliant Doctor Who. So much so that my dad gave us
• 3:49
  videotape #2, which is how early on this was a great honor, The
• 3:54
  Five Doctors. And he actually broke the tab
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  off the video so that this would be kept forever because this was
• 4:01
  such a monumental story. So hence the next morning I
• 4:06
  watched The Five Doctors, and then the morning after that I
• 4:09
  watched The Five Doctors. And to be honest, I haven't
• 4:12
  really stopped watching The Five Doctors since 1983 because of
• 4:16
  this. You do know that breaking the
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  tab means something quite different these days?
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  Yes, I. Missed the innocent days of
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  being 8 years old when I was 8/19/88.
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  My God, Fraser, it's the Happiness Patrol.
• 4:31
  Yeah. There you go.
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  The rule stands. Hang on, what was on when you
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  was 8? Me I had.
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  This was yours. Fraser.
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  Yeah, Fraser. Yeah, yeah, it was, yeah.
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  Remember since the Daleks and happiness Control And then I
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  turned 9 when when Silva nemesis came along the. 25th Thank God
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  none of us turned 8 when Resurrection of the Daleks.
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  Was on well, I was 8 when Resurrection of the Daleks was
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  on. Oh, of course.
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  You And it was ever so exciting as an 8 year old.
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  OK, let's start our conversation on the five Doctors of Is this
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  how you should celebrate? Doctor Who Is a great nostalgia
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  fest of companions and Doctors all coming back.
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  The best way to celebrate this show that's been going on for 20
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  years, Fraser? Yes.
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  OK. Thank you.
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  OK. OK, let me rephrase that then.
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  Should this have been a one off? And is the the many iterations
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  of the five Doctors that we've had since in the new series in
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  Big Finish in the 8 doctors from BBC books, Should this have been
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  a one time only deal? No I think I mean this is this
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  is the perfect way to to celebrate 20 years because the
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  formats been set 10 years previously by the Bristol boys
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  in the three Doctors. So you know you've you've had
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  your 10th anniversary, we'll get all the Doctors together, you
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  have your 20th anniversary, we'll get all the Doctors
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  together. It makes sense.
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  You know you've got more though you've got more juggle, you've
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  got two extra Doctors and all those companions and everything.
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  So it makes perfect sense to do that and it makes perfect sense
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  to continue doing that further down the line.
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  So when you get to sort of Day of the Doctor and you have it
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  again multi Doctor stories it's it's the format basically it's
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  it's what you do. I think where we're kind of
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  comes and stuck a little bit is when you stop making it a
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  special event, something like the Two Doctors, which is just
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  GNT thinking, well, that was fun, let's do that again isn't
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  quite as successful. And I think it does need to have
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  that little bit of a bit of magic about it.
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  And then the thing when you get to like the Star Beast and and
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  such like in where you're celebrating the 60th anniversary
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  and you've only got the one Doctor, even though it's one
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  that you've had before, that means it kind of feels a little
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  bit flatter because you're kind of as a fan, you've got your
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  expectation of, well, we're going to have loads of Doctors.
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  And that kind of lead into a lot of disquiet, didn't it online
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  that you know, that McGann didn't pop up with Caroline Ford
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  on that spaceship at the end of the Universe and Wild Blue
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  Yonder and all the rest of it. So yeah, I think possibly do a
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  conversation with different team on those those specials, but for
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  this special or 100 percent, 100% the right thing to do.
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  I do wonder if the danger is that this was such a success.
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  Yeah, and we know that because we can see the long leak
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  footage, you know, and and all the things that came around it.
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  And it was a bit of a rating success as well.
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  It was certainly a success in fan circles and that's the best,
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  the biggest success you can have.
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  You know, that's what I always say about Daya the Doctor is the
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  one thing they had a Doctor truly achieved was pleasing
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  99.9% of the fan base. A feat that has only ever been
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  achieved once before in The Five Doctors.
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  And then every other story is up for up for debate.
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  But the yeah, The thing is, is then people look back to this as
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  a blueprint of this is how we do anniversary stories from now on.
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  And then you get stuff from Big Finish, like the Legacy of Time
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  and Light at the end and once for future.
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  And I know I'm not going to have that argument now, but but you
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  get a lot of it. You get a lot of doctors coming
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  together and none of it's special anymore because they're
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  doing it every, every other month.
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  So what was? That was what made this special
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  was the fact that. It's never going to happen
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  again. No.
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  And you've still got Patrick Troughton and you've still got
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  Jon Pertwee and you kind of got Tom Baker, you know.
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  And that that at the time it just felt absolutely the most
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  exciting thing that all of the Doctors were coming and they'd
• 9:02
  recast William Hartnell in the first time they'd recast William
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  Hartnell. Let's face it, there are many
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  William Hartnells now, but there it just felt like this was
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  something not many shows got 20 years at that point.
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  It was so rare that you had to do something big to celebrate
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  that, you know it was such a big thing and there was the Radio
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  Times special and all of these things that were coming because
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  the show was 20 and you've got the first big non fiction book
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  about the show and going into the whole history suddenly it
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  was this. Yeah, it felt monumental.
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  It felt so big. That and an old writer coming
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  back to do it as well, which we didn't have.
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  And the rumours of an old director coming back to to that
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  Morris Hussein was going to come back from the very first story
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  and director or Douglas Canfield or anyone better than Peter
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  Moffat do. You know when I was reading the
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  Richard Molesworth The JNT Diaries, really interesting
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  read. I mean a bit dry because it is
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  just a load of you know this this finance was requested for
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  this hotel and things like that but some of the interested like
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  that nearly came to pass the war is the same thing he.
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  Was so close. Documents, a couple of letters
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  that went back and forth and he was interested.
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  I think it was just dates. That's it.
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  It was just a dates clash with another job.
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  That he had a better job that would have paid him more money
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  and would have been sort of more long term is the only reason why
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  he couldn't do it would have been interesting.
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  Yeah, so you know, I I think absolutely it's not the Five
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  Doctor's fault that everyone has tried to emulate it afterwards
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  this. It's it's what I said about
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  Castro Valva that you do the Doctor's post regeneration
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  trauma to so brilliantly that you don't need to do it again
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  because you've done it once. But they don't learn the lesson
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  that once is actually enough. And so that becomes the template
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  of what happens to the Doctor. Then in the twin dilemma and
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  things only it's more extreme. And this is the problem that
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  once you've done something so well, all you're going to do is
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  have a pale imitation of it, you're not going to be able to
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  do it as well. And no disrespect to anyone else
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  who's written the multi Doctor story, you're not Terrance Dicks
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  and like I said. I recently read The Eight
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  Doctors Before, which is basically this again.
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  He's popping into various classic Doctor Who stories to
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  get his memory back and just have a little bit of an impact
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  on the Doctor's life. Even that's not as good as this,
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  so even Terrence Dicks can't do it again.
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  And it's just that brilliant idea that he as he says in the
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  documentary. I had this image of a hand
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  picking up a model of a doctor and putting it on on a playing
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  on a out of a box in onto a a board and that's the idea.
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  It's a game. Yeah.
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  Well then the big question I want to ask you, and we'll press
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  play in a second, is why is this so special for you, Fraser?
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  I mean it's it is one of the first ones that I put kind of
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  picked up, you know when I was collecting VHSS and you've got a
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  choice of you know various different titles.
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  You know you look for ones which grab your imagination so they
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  don't think anything. With Daleks in it is is an easy
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  pick you know something like time flight.
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  No, that doesn't grab me attention.
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  But you put five doctors there. Oh, there's five doctors in here
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  and there's three doctors in this one.
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  There's two doctors in this one. So you know those grab your
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  attention the the, the start and end ones.
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  You know, like the, you know, your Castro Valvas and your
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  Caves of Anders on, he's grab your attention because those are
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  the generation ones and you always want to say that it's
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  special. So it was one of the first ones
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  I got and it's kind of stuck with us since then, really.
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  You know, it's like Simon was saying, you know, once you once
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  you, you watch it and you watch it again and again and again
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  because it's perfectly watchable.
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  It just, you know, gives you that big, big hit.
• 13:15
  It's like it's like an espresso, isn't it?
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  Like a double espresso of Doctor Who.
• 13:19
  Just OK now, Sarah Jean, not. The ultimate Doctor Who dopamine
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  here. Yeah, yeah, basically.
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  Yeah, pretty much. It's just doctor hit one road
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  and that's part of it. You know, it's the nostalgia of
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  watching it as a as a kid and you know, having that as a as a
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  bit of education as to other doctors and so on and so forth.
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  It's just the more than anything, I think the reason why
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  it's so special is because it's so fucking good.
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  I I I think this is special because scene to scene, I think
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  it's the most fun you can have with the.
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  Classic series. Like, it's not really setting
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  out to be all the things that Doctor Who generally tries to
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  do, educate, you know, horrify and all those things.
• 14:15
  It's just so much fun. It's like eating 15 bags of
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  Skittles for an hour and a half, you know, It's colourful and the
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  witty lines in it, Like every fucking line is quotable in this
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  thing. I see.
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  Yeah. I just think in pure levels of
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  entertainment, this is the best Doctor Who story.
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  Maybe until Parallel Doctor, because I think Parallel Doctor
• 14:38
  does the same thing. Exactly the same thing.
• 14:41
  I'm not sure about the witty lines, but it's just pure
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  entertainment for 90 minutes. But, you know, sorry for.
• 14:48
  Me it's it's the whole exciting build up to it that makes it
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  special that I remember so well. Full on Tale of Youth coming,
• 15:00
  here we go. But you know, it was the first
• 15:07
  of all the Radio Times cover for the Andrew Skilletta cover,
• 15:12
  artwork cover. That was just the most amazing
• 15:15
  piece of artwork and all these doctors looking dashing and
• 15:18
  wonderful and beautiful and printed beautifully.
• 15:22
  And it was coming home from school and my mum saying I'm,
• 15:24
  I'm giving you 3 weeks pocket money because there's this big
• 15:28
  Doctor Who magazine that's in the shop.
• 15:30
  You need to go and buy this now for the 20th anniversary special
• 15:34
  and getting my three weeks of 50P so that I could could get
• 15:38
  that. And just looking through that.
• 15:40
  And then the Blue Peter Day where the episode where they've
• 15:46
  got the clips from the old stories and the old monsters,
• 15:48
  and then Peter Davison and Richard Handel turning up in the
• 15:51
  studio and just getting those little clips and seeing the
• 15:54
  trailers through the week before the episode happened.
• 15:57
  I'm trying to work out who was in it and what was going to be.
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  And I can remember shouting to my mum when Blue Pizza was on
• 16:04
  mum. The Cyber Men are in it.
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  Oh my God, the Cyber. Men are in it and it was just.
• 16:08
  All of that and. J&T and Russell Davis, they've
• 16:11
  in terms of marketing the show, they've got quite a bit in
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  common, haven't they? Yeah, exactly.
• 16:17
  They know how to put it out there.
• 16:19
  Exactly. And you know, and it's what you
• 16:21
  both said, it's beautifully written.
• 16:24
  I mean, it's the most impossible task of you've got to write all
• 16:29
  the Doctors and all these companions, but we don't know
• 16:31
  which companions are coming back.
• 16:33
  Oh, you've just written for Victoria.
• 16:34
  Well, she's not coming now because she's doing Dave Allen.
• 16:37
  So could you put the best? Story on the documentary is
• 16:40
  Terrence 6 going. He phones Eric Saywood and goes,
• 16:43
  I've just finished the script, Eric.
• 16:46
  And then Eric Saywood goes, oh God.
• 16:48
  Wow. What's wrong?
• 16:50
  I didn't think that would be your reaction.
• 16:51
  And he goes, Tom's pulled out. Oh.
• 16:54
  No. You've got to write it again.
• 16:56
  Yeah, This is why Terence Dix is the ultimate pro for writing
• 17:03
  Doctor Who, because he wasn't. He said that was just problem
• 17:07
  solving. So you know, you go back,
• 17:09
  rewrite this and you think, well, actually Peter Davison
• 17:12
  needs a better role because he's he's actually the Doctor at the
• 17:16
  moment. So we give him Tom's bet and he
• 17:18
  does this. So you know, it's all of those
• 17:21
  things. It just makes the story better
• 17:24
  each time he goes back. But other writers that would
• 17:27
  just be Oh my God panic, panic what am I going to do and and
• 17:33
  not make the story so good. But Terence comes back and he
• 17:35
  makes it stronger like the bit where he says oh we perk, we is
• 17:40
  having an easy time getting to the tower.
• 17:42
  He needs another another thing. And so he just writes in the
• 17:47
  rest of warrior robot sequence because and that's just a bit of
• 17:51
  oh, OK. I mean, I know you.
• 17:53
  Know that what Pete? Doctor Who's used quite a lot
• 17:56
  around these parts. But I actually think the scenes
• 17:59
  with the rest of Warrior World that might be peak Classic who
• 18:03
  like I don't know if it gets any higher than that when it masks
• 18:06
  all those Cybermen directed by JNTI believe.
• 18:10
  Exactly, Yeah, You know. It's just Eric sitting there
• 18:13
  going, isn't he? Well, this is a lovely script,
• 18:15
  Terrence, but nobody dies. Nobody.
• 18:18
  Dies in this. Terrence.
• 18:20
  Goes do something about it, Terrence.
• 18:22
  Oh, OK, we'll have some cyber men.
• 18:24
  Bitchy ears in the. Just the one massacre, Terrence.
• 18:26
  Just the one, Cybermen. Oh, go on, then.
• 18:28
  We'll ZAP. What he says, he goes, I
• 18:30
  couldn't stand the cyber men, he goes.
• 18:32
  Eric was obsessed with him, he goes, so I murdered a lot of
• 18:35
  them. He's a contrary bugger, isn't
• 18:40
  he? But you know, it's everything
• 18:43
  you want for 20th anniversary special.
• 18:46
  And yeah, who cares? That that thing I said earlier
• 18:51
  about though, the doctor sort of living up to the expectation,
• 18:54
  because I think now that's an even more impossible task than
• 18:58
  it was then, because some fan circles were emerging at this
• 19:02
  point, weren't they? I thought they quite wrestle
• 19:04
  control of the TV show like they had in the late 80s and they
• 19:09
  were quite happy with what they were getting because they were
• 19:11
  being, they were being serviced at this point, weren't they?
• 19:13
  This whole season of returning things, you know, Ian Levine was
• 19:17
  happy. So his bunch were were you know,
• 19:21
  behind the show. At this point I'm down at the
• 19:25
  doctor. I think that's an astonishing
• 19:26
  feat. The the expectation was beyond
• 19:29
  that. But that's that's for another
• 19:31
  day. Gentleman, yes.
• 19:33
  Should we jump in and press play on this thing?
• 19:35
  Yes, we should point out we're watching the original version.
• 19:39
  The original, you might say. And not.
• 19:41
  What? Exactly and not the other
• 19:43
  versions. Yes, although a quick word for
• 19:49
  the latest version that came out with some of the most
• 19:53
  spectacular CG enhancements I've seen yet that big where they go
• 19:58
  into the tumor wrestle on and the scale that they give it.
• 20:02
  Kind of simply done, but beautiful, I think, yeah.
• 20:06
  Great job of it. Oh.
• 20:09
  You both agree that's good. Absolutely and.
• 20:12
  What I liked about that was that they actually just used the the
• 20:16
  original cut, the original edit as it as the basis and did it
• 20:21
  like any other special edition where you enhance the original
• 20:24
  version. Because I have opinions about
• 20:27
  the special edition. Oh, oh.
• 20:30
  Well, why we're watching that one then?
• 20:32
  No, my Avrov loves a special edition.
• 20:36
  When that came out with the enhanced CG effect, show the
• 20:39
  wibbly, wobbly sort of Mr. Frosty Triangles that come down.
• 20:43
  Man Manly Love. I was so disappointed.
• 20:47
  Really. Really.
• 20:49
  I. You didn't like those language
• 20:52
  shots of the dark corridors of the tomb of Russell?
• 20:55
  It's because they say, well, starting the story with the shot
• 20:59
  of the console isn't very exciting, but that's your money
• 21:03
  shop because they built the new fucking set.
• 21:06
  So you ever see PM off it, give his opinion on that was yes.
• 21:09
  Finally, he goes, they put all the boring bits that are cut.
• 21:12
  Exactly, exactly. And yes, panning down some
• 21:17
  corridors is the perfect way to start.
• 21:19
  I'm excited. I don't.
• 21:22
  Know. OK.
• 21:22
  Well then the last question before we press play for all of
• 21:25
  you is what's your favorite version of the five doctors,
• 21:29
  Fraser? I mean, I I'm as close for
• 21:34
  purest as you're going to get because, you know, special
• 21:37
  effects mean nothing to me. So fabulous though it is the new
• 21:44
  you know special effects with scorch Marks and everything on
• 21:46
  the ground is lovely. But you know I'm the I mean
• 21:49
  towards the original transmitted one because one that's the one I
• 21:51
  grew up with. So when I watch the special
• 21:54
  edition and to get the voice of Russell on wrong that jaws for
• 21:59
  me so. It was the original the.
• 22:04
  Game. Of Russell on a bit of
• 22:07
  distortion around is like wouldn't you something talking
• 22:08
  like a normalized. Alright fellas, it's Russell on
• 22:11
  here. I want to play a game.
• 22:13
  You know it's it just. Takes it's kind of.
• 22:16
  Weird in that special it goes from like from someone from Eton
• 22:19
  to someone. Who?
• 22:20
  Smokes when you're dying for the last 500 years, isn't it?
• 22:26
  It's very old. Yeah.
• 22:28
  So yeah, original for me, just because that's that's the one
• 22:31
  I'm most familiar with more than anything else.
• 22:35
  And original for me as well, but simply because I've watched it.
• 22:39
  So I don't think there is a Doctor Who story.
• 22:42
  I have seen more than this story.
• 22:44
  So, well, that terminus. So you know, every other version
• 22:55
  just jars. I do really, really love the
• 22:58
  40th anniversary special and I will willingly watch that, but I
• 23:03
  will talk about some of the things and the the effects in
• 23:07
  this story as we go along, because I think there are some
• 23:09
  things that have never quite been bettered.
• 23:12
  So yeah, there would be, yeah, lots, yeah, lots to say.
• 23:17
  But this yeah, the original for me.
• 23:19
  Well, I'm going to be contrary then and say my favorite version
• 23:22
  of the Five Doctors is John Cultural's reading of the
• 23:25
  Target. Oh, his reading is brilliant
• 23:26
  because the impressions are. Sarcastic.
• 23:28
  Because you know what? I can't bear how he goes.
• 23:30
  Doctor One, Doctor two, Doctor Five really annoys me.
• 23:34
  Of course it's this version. This is the version we all saw
• 23:37
  first, right? And the very idea of taking out
• 23:42
  the fellow who comes beyond that rock and goes.
• 23:45
  Oh. Exactly.
• 23:48
  That shows the lack of sense of humour of some Doctor Who fans
• 23:52
  who don't want those fun bits. Yeah, well, he's downstairs.
• 23:55
  Can't talk to him. All right, let's cross play,
• 24:00
  shall we? OK.
• 24:02
  Someone count us in. In 5432, one doctor go.
• 24:10
  How can we all do it together? One day I shall.
• 24:14
  Come back. I shall come back.
• 24:15
  Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no
• 24:20
  regrets, no tears, no. Anxieties just go forward to my
• 24:25
  beliefs. Not mistaken in March, Doctor
• 24:29
  Who's second cold? Absolutely seamless.
• 24:32
  Absolutely, Doctor Who's second cold opening ever.
• 24:36
  Yep, it's just the normal music, isn't it, for the beginning
• 24:39
  part. Yes and no, because it's not
• 24:43
  quite the normal music, because the end is slightly different
• 24:47
  because they've used the single version rather than the master
• 24:51
  version, so it actually is ready to carry on, but it goes
• 24:55
  seamlessly into peterhouse little bit of music for the new
• 25:00
  console. Only a true geek would know
• 25:03
  that, you know, Yeah, you had as much sex as you have, if I'm
• 25:07
  honest. Oh God, talk about sex.
• 25:10
  Look at that. Do you know it annoys me?
• 25:14
  Every time you go to an exhibition it's always behind a
• 25:17
  a thing and you can't touch it. Yeah, you want to press those
• 25:20
  buttons? So badly you.
• 25:23
  Want to give it a good bundle? Yeah.
• 25:27
  At the time, that felt like such a huge step forward.
• 25:30
  It suddenly looked like it had buttons that did things and it
• 25:35
  moved and it was so modern and brilliant.
• 25:40
  What's the thing? It looked modern, wouldn't it?
• 25:41
  Because, you know, it would be like the age of BBC computers
• 25:44
  and. Yeah, everything's a button,
• 25:46
  yeah, And it had buttons of them for.
• 25:48
  Me, when I was a kid, it was just because there was so many
• 25:51
  little bits and bobs of it. I was like, this must be so
• 25:54
  complicated because there's just so many screens and buttons and
• 25:57
  levers. The old one, it was just like it
• 25:59
  was only about 12-1 there on the console.
• 26:02
  Really. There's somebody else that
• 26:04
  people want to fondle, Janet Fielding making her first.
• 26:07
  Appearance. Actually, if you're losing the
• 26:09
  call. This story if.
• 26:10
  You're losing the call. You might want Fondle, Peter
• 26:12
  Davidson, if I'm honest. Well, there's turtle, So who
• 26:17
  wants to fondle turtle? Nah, I don't really like
• 26:19
  gingers. Isn't this location footage
• 26:24
  gorgeous? Brilliant.
• 26:25
  I've been there. It's gorgeous.
• 26:27
  Is it still like that? Yeah, very, very much.
• 26:30
  It hasn't changed. It's it's a small little folly
• 26:33
  at the top of a hill. Is it as cold as it looks?
• 26:36
  I went in February. Yes, it is.
• 26:40
  I mean, here it doesn't look too bad, but later on, when they
• 26:43
  were in the slate, Warwick Mist comes.
• 26:46
  I mean, atmosphere. Tick.
• 26:49
  But I'm glad she's wearing a fur coat.
• 26:51
  That's all I'm going to say. So what do you think about this
• 26:54
  team then, 5th Doctor, Tegan and Turlo?
• 26:59
  It's good. It's not me favorite, but it's
• 27:02
  it's good. I think they're the best of the
• 27:05
  5th doctors teams. Oh, interesting.
• 27:09
  I think they work very well together.
• 27:11
  If I'm honest, even in a couple of stories.
• 27:16
  I mean obviously this is a difficult story for them because
• 27:18
  they do obviously get separated a lot more companions come into
• 27:23
  it's it's a difficult one to you know judge their dynamic on.
• 27:27
  You need to look at that sort of kings demons and enlightenment
• 27:31
  and the the rest of season 21. But you know this, the problem
• 27:37
  of you have at this point is, is do you still absolutely trust
• 27:40
  Turtle? Because obviously you spent, you
• 27:44
  know the first part of his one trying to knock the doctor off
• 27:47
  and you know is he, is he? Is he decent?
• 27:49
  Is he wrong then? I mean I love, I do like the the
• 27:53
  dynamic because it's a bit sort of uncomfortable but you've got
• 27:57
  someone who's sort of regularly don't want to be there and
• 28:00
  somebody else who's just tried to kill him.
• 28:02
  So it's all, it's not sort of that nice family feel is it,
• 28:05
  that we had back in the olden days now?
• 28:08
  And just this episode. Obviously the start of this
• 28:10
  episode, It's the complete opposite.
• 28:12
  Tegan's very happy to be there. Love entertainment?
• 28:15
  Because it's because you're a professional writer, Yeah.
• 28:18
  It's. It's because he's like.
• 28:20
  I'm not having this. Murdering the Doctor.
• 28:24
  What madness is this Now? I hope we've just there's so
• 28:28
  much going by on the screen. Yes, the first triangle come
• 28:31
  down and nab fake William Hartnell.
• 28:34
  Richard Hurdle. Yes, that.
• 28:37
  This is, this is the thing that bothers me about all the other
• 28:41
  versions. That the black triangle was
• 28:45
  terrifying as an 8 year old, a 2D object in a 3D World was
• 28:51
  something that was really scary. There was the it's very much
• 28:54
  like Superman 2, where you've got the three people trapped in
• 28:58
  the in the disc. And turning someone into a
• 29:01
  photograph isn't. It, yeah.
• 29:03
  It's a bit like what happens to that girl in the Dominators.
• 29:06
  And I knew. Someone would get mention of
• 29:08
  that in there somewhere. I'm just having that black shape
• 29:12
  hanging in the air and then coming down towards them I found
• 29:16
  genuinely scary and I thought, no other version.
• 29:23
  Yeah, no other version has quite done that.
• 29:26
  They've got their fancy shapes and the new obelisk is
• 29:29
  particularly good, but just that black slab.
• 29:33
  It's like someone has cut it out of the sky.
• 29:36
  They've made it a more sophisticated effect, but
• 29:38
  they've actually taken away the simplicity of what they were
• 29:41
  doing. Yeah, Of what?
• 29:42
  What it actually did because there was for the special
• 29:47
  edition video, there was a sort of new triangle black thing that
• 29:52
  they did that came and grabbed the BBC low BBC video logo.
• 29:57
  And I thought that if that's what they're doing in the story,
• 29:59
  then that's brilliant because it's slightly 3D, but it's.
• 30:03
  Can you sort of bounce in the new one?
• 30:04
  I can't remember. Yeah, unless Sparks or something
• 30:08
  went on. Oh, gentlemen, so it's.
• 30:11
  Allowed me. I'm allowed everywhere.
• 30:14
  So yeah, just something about that.
• 30:16
  And I think also I'm, I'm going to talk, we'll talk about this
• 30:20
  all the way through. But Peter Howe making that
• 30:23
  brilliant decision of sampling the original theme and it
• 30:28
  sounds, and it's just those little bits and that.
• 30:31
  Yeah, also a brilliant idea because it's Doctor Who
• 30:36
  capturing itself. But that sounds makes it sound.
• 30:40
  It's so malevolent and terrifying because you get that
• 30:43
  every time the triangle comes down.
• 30:45
  Yeah, I think an argument could be made that this is comfortably
• 30:49
  the best score in the classic series.
• 30:52
  It's. Listen, City of Death.
• 30:53
  Really put a lot of effort into this, but.
• 30:56
  Peter Howe here. Oh look at face are looking
• 30:59
  convinced. I love the score so much.
• 31:01
  You know what I'm going to say. Go on.
• 31:05
  It's ambassadors. Of death, oh ambassadors.
• 31:08
  Of death. It's a.
• 31:08
  Brilliant score it is. But, well, I think this has lots
• 31:12
  of flavours to it, you know? Yes, And in fact it's weird when
• 31:16
  they add the additions in the special edition, the middle
• 31:19
  special edition. There's not too good flute of
• 31:22
  trout and things like that. It's not a sort of dynamic.
• 31:25
  No, but you've got this bit where he's running and you've
• 31:29
  got that little. Come on now, I'm the one doing
• 31:40
  all the quoting here, boys. Funnily enough, my brother who
• 31:44
  who would have been about 1 1/2 nearly two when when this was
• 31:48
  on, absolutely banned Patrick Troughton's running the funniest
• 31:54
  thing he had ever seen and would ask to rewind that because he
• 31:57
  wanted to see the funny running again.
• 31:59
  Do you know, for my niece, Right.
• 32:01
  It was that bit in remembrance of the Daleks where Ace gets
• 32:04
  surrounded by the Daleks. I watched that bloody scene.
• 32:06
  So. Many times.
• 32:09
  I know every shot. Did you read what he said then?
• 32:12
  What a brilliant way of describing to the kids what's
• 32:15
  going on. Great hunks of my past attaching
• 32:18
  themselves like melting icebergs.
• 32:21
  So simple. Oh, here's the man.
• 32:26
  Oh, this was the best bit of. Music in the whole story for me.
• 32:29
  Oh God, I love. This someone do the line please.
• 32:32
  There it is. Thank you.
• 32:34
  Go, Pertwee. I mean, he's so dynamic and he's
• 32:37
  so brilliant here. Look at him.
• 32:39
  He is so cool. And just that image of Clara in
• 32:45
  his. Oh, sorry the.
• 32:48
  You know what? It could have been here, Fraser.
• 32:50
  It could have literally been. Oh God, I loved that scene.
• 33:00
  We just looked so brilliant with the cloak flying behind him
• 33:03
  while he's I've been down that that road is just down the road.
• 33:07
  I've driven down there. Done EU turn the whole lot.
• 33:11
  It's so strange. Now you've said that about the
• 33:14
  2D effects. I really see it.
• 33:17
  I see how that would sort of baffles and a child.
• 33:22
  Yeah, and it is. It's like, you see, it's proper
• 33:24
  Superman. It's like, you know, you'll have
• 33:25
  seen that on on the big screen. Because I hadn't long been on
• 33:29
  telly at that point. Yeah.
• 33:31
  Yeah. Can I get a quick criticism out
• 33:34
  of the way? Because I mostly want to be
• 33:35
  positive? Yes.
• 33:37
  I think Peter Muffet directs extremely well on location in
• 33:41
  this story, and as ever, he has a trouble blocking in the
• 33:45
  studio, especially when he's got a lot of.
• 33:48
  People. You've got a tight 12 shot of 12
• 33:51
  people on the screen at once or whatever.
• 33:54
  Fortunately, he's actually directed on location more than
• 33:57
  he's directing in the studio in this, so I think it's
• 34:00
  comfortably his best work on the show.
• 34:03
  Oh, here she is. And here he is.
• 34:05
  Yes. Oh.
• 34:07
  Would you have like more but? Can't stay at home.
• 34:08
  You couldn't give me a reason. Would sigh of like more canine
• 34:12
  argue bad. There was in the in the Radio
• 34:17
  Times with the listing there was a Dalek and canine facing each
• 34:23
  other and this is could canine, can this canine help the
• 34:28
  doctors? And you're just like yes.
• 34:30
  And then that's never. Been done.
• 34:32
  Sigh. No.
• 34:34
  But this is Terrence Dicks, and the Doctor is.
• 34:38
  Involved. Involved.
• 34:39
  But this is Terrence Dicks saying, Oh no, we've got to have
• 34:41
  canine because the kids will love him.
• 34:43
  Apparently they didn't want him, did they?
• 34:45
  No, they didn't. Well, it's J&T, isn't it?
• 34:48
  As Sarah Liz Slayden not being happy about Sarah Jane's house.
• 34:52
  And oh, yes, yes, yeah, she goes, It wasn't right, she goes.
• 34:56
  No one would listen to me, but I was mad.
• 35:00
  But Terence says, you know what? You don't like canine.
• 35:03
  But there's millions of kids out there that love canine.
• 35:06
  Exactly. So thank God for Terrance.
• 35:09
  So tuned. In Terrance to to the overall
• 35:13
  audience rather than just what's to my taste.
• 35:17
  And his Tom and Lala, and again 1983 in DWM.
• 35:23
  In the summer of 1983, we'd had the first huge synopsis of
• 35:28
  Sharda in the archive, and they devoted half an issue to telling
• 35:33
  the story of Sharda for the first time.
• 35:36
  And so suddenly, to get this a clip from a story that they
• 35:43
  filmed that you've never seen was really exciting.
• 35:47
  I don't know if I'm being entirely complimentary when I
• 35:51
  say that dropping a Pennant Roberts directed scene into a
• 35:55
  Peter Moffat directed story is barely perceptible.
• 36:02
  I still, I think it's a wonderful scene.
• 36:05
  So is the TARDIS. Ha ha.
• 36:09
  Oh, I I. Do love spring all the.
• 36:11
  Leaves the colours. And again, I was pleased because
• 36:15
  it's my my TARDIS team represented and seeing something
• 36:20
  new with Tom and Lala was was just beautiful.
• 36:23
  Actually, that's a good point there, Prisa.
• 36:27
  What's your favorite dynamic in this?
• 36:30
  Like, what's your favorite pair up?
• 36:32
  I think it's probably going to be the first Doctor and Tegan
• 36:35
  it's. Mine.
• 36:36
  Surprisingly. Because I think obviously you
• 36:39
  know what times does is he put like with like so he puts, you
• 36:43
  know first Doctor and Susan together, first Brig and 2nd
• 36:46
  Doctor Sarah Jane and and obviously he's can't do much
• 36:51
  with the 5th. But when he does switch it up a
• 36:53
  bit, when he goes right while Tegan's going to go off with the
• 36:55
  1st Doctor, now it brings a whole new and your new level it
• 36:58
  was. Funny isn't?
• 36:59
  It, yeah. So far, don't be in such a hurry
• 37:02
  and. Currently refrained from kissing
• 37:06
  me as Doc. I I just would love a season
• 37:10
  with those two. And then, you know when they put
• 37:12
  Tegan into, I'll whisper it in a fix for the Sontarans and it's
• 37:17
  her and Colin, and you've suddenly got somebody who is not
• 37:21
  putting up with Colin's shit. Yeah, and somebody who's not
• 37:24
  putting up with Janet's shit and they're in a team together.
• 37:27
  It's comedy gold. I think the brilliant Pete
• 37:30
  Lambert recently said he came up with this beautiful theory that
• 37:36
  actually the 1st Dr. Tegan dynamic is what they're going
• 37:41
  for with Colin and Perry. Yeah, that is very, Yeah, she
• 37:46
  actually. Can't quite fight back, yeah,
• 37:48
  bringing Evelyn. And there it.
• 37:50
  Is yeah. Can I just ask why did Sarah
• 37:55
  Jane not wish to take her handbag to the Death Zone?
• 37:58
  Well, there's a period that she's gradually getting rid of
• 38:02
  this awful costume all the way through the story.
• 38:05
  She discards bits of it all the way through.
• 38:07
  I think it. Kind of.
• 38:09
  Works about an hour. God knows what we'd have been
• 38:11
  down to. She takes it.
• 38:13
  Would be like Terminus on her again.
• 38:16
  We don't want to see Sarah Jane in her knickers.
• 38:18
  Come on. Although I tried to faint
• 38:21
  because she takes off that terrible sort of plastic Mac.
• 38:24
  And then? She's got these weird mittens
• 38:26
  hanging off her sleeves. It's strange.
• 38:30
  Isn't that model work with the deaths of the tower gorgeous?
• 38:35
  My mum was convinced that was a real place because the model
• 38:39
  work was so good that it couldn't be a model.
• 38:44
  It was, yeah. I never understand when you know
• 38:47
  these special editions in CGI want want to replace model work
• 38:51
  in Doctor Who because it's always fantastic.
• 38:53
  It's always, isn't it? Yeah, the Invisible enemy
• 38:56
  special edition of the CGI. It's so inferior to the bottom.
• 39:00
  Work. Yeah, we wait until the doctor
• 39:05
  recovers. That's right.
• 39:07
  And actually even in the special edition, the special effect
• 39:10
  where he sort of starts vanishing, it's very confusing
• 39:13
  in the the 1st special edition, whereas in this one he just
• 39:16
  vanishes and he's back. He vanishes and he's back.
• 39:19
  Oh boy, here we are. The.
• 39:22
  Gayest Gallifrey. You're ever going to look at all
• 39:24
  that glitz? I love the way the castle and
• 39:28
  says every single word as if it's one word at a time and this
• 39:33
  is the most important thing we are going to say at all.
• 39:39
  Well, the one thing that's never said is that this trio is indeed
• 39:43
  unanimous. Which indeed, we are.
• 39:45
  We are not. Oh, actually there's a bit of
• 39:48
  A1. Cancel may be overruled.
• 39:51
  What do you think of this Barossa then?
• 39:55
  I'm sorry, here he is. Sorry, Sorry.
• 39:59
  Fuck. Barussa Badly.
• 40:00
  Haley's just turned up. And oh, just a bit where he
• 40:05
  comes in, sits down, and it just says I may be seated.
• 40:10
  I'm going to take up Pun and say this is the most fun and the
• 40:15
  only ever has in the role. Yes.
• 40:17
  And this is the point, I think, where he's at his most
• 40:21
  comfortable, yeah. Yeah, he he knows exactly how to
• 40:26
  play this and he's playing it. I and Terrence Dix is giving him
• 40:31
  the best lines to play with. Well, I can't remember who said
• 40:35
  it. I can't remember where I heard
• 40:36
  it. But again, there was a very
• 40:37
  good, you know, argument will be made that Terence Dix is writing
• 40:42
  for Delgado. Oh.
• 40:46
  You know Terence Dix is coming and wrote.
• 40:47
  You know Terence Dix invented the Master and Sticks is more
• 40:51
  for the Master than anyone else at this point.
• 40:54
  So Terence Dix is coming in and writing the Master as he
• 40:56
  intended the Master to be written.
• 40:58
  That is basically writing for the Delgado version and not for
• 41:01
  the the pantomime version that GNT wants.
• 41:05
  It's that what we needed all along then, aside from Ronan
• 41:08
  Munro. Who?
• 41:09
  Did a brilliant take on the Master.
• 41:11
  And well, I think Chris Bigme does a an interesting he just
• 41:14
  makes him psychotic and. I mean, the panto is there
• 41:18
  though. Oh yeah.
• 41:19
  He is. All.
• 41:20
  Mine, You know, he's a bit over the top.
• 41:25
  Oh, boy. It's just when things were going
• 41:27
  well. Here's Carol.
• 41:28
  Ann Forbes. How do we?
• 41:31
  Get here. What do we do now?
• 41:33
  I'll do. I mean, no.
• 41:34
  I think she acquits herself very well in this.
• 41:37
  But Terrence, honest to God, what are you doing right?
• 41:40
  And her tripping over rocks and things.
• 41:42
  Yeah. It's like are.
• 41:44
  You mad what Susan does. But we could be progressive now.
• 41:49
  It's the 80s. It's like right in Lilo.
• 41:52
  And that's going to not to throw a knife, It's going to.
• 41:56
  Peter Moffa, A moment of kudos because that bit.
• 42:00
  When you like doing this. Where you see the Dalek shadow
• 42:04
  come round the corner before the Dalek.
• 42:06
  It's brilliant. Unfortunately, I do think now
• 42:09
  these long shots of the Dalek just wobbling about the set,
• 42:12
  yeah, it's less convincing. But you've got Roy Skelton at
• 42:15
  his at his best. What they They didn't want a
• 42:19
  Dalek, did they? And Tara said no, no, of course.
• 42:22
  We've got to have a. Dalek, yeah.
• 42:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:26
  I kind of think it's it's it's the way.
• 42:28
  Does a wonderful impression of Richard Hurdle.
• 42:30
  Guy who's the Dalek down that alley and.
• 42:34
  When I say drop, drop understood.
• 42:37
  Now. Susan, Sorry, Frank.
• 42:39
  So what are you trying to say? No, I think, I think it's the
• 42:41
  right amount of Dalek. I think yes.
• 42:46
  And I think it's the right amount of K9 as well.
• 42:48
  Sorry, Simon, I know you. No, no, no, I I think, yeah,
• 42:50
  you've got that. You've got your little nostalgia
• 42:52
  hits, yeah? And then you're not having to
• 42:55
  wobble along the depth zone on Gaffray.
• 42:58
  Because I think if if you have more K9, then K9 has to get
• 43:02
  sidelined at some point because to keep the the script as lean
• 43:05
  as possible, you know more Dalek, you have to, you know
• 43:11
  again part things out a bit, you know.
• 43:15
  So I think just having these little snippets is the same with
• 43:17
  like as when we get to the end where we've got Leshaun and
• 43:21
  Jamie and Zoe and it might get, you know, those are just little
• 43:24
  little snippets, little little bubbles in your bubble tea sort
• 43:29
  of thing, little hits to keep you going.
• 43:31
  If you'll forgive me, a little suggestive moment, but there's a
• 43:34
  lot to pack in here, isn't there?
• 43:36
  Yeah. So you can't give everybody, you
• 43:39
  know, half an hour? No.
• 43:41
  And it is the genius of Terence that he has juggled everything
• 43:47
  so well. And in giving everyone a little
• 43:49
  bit of a little moment, a little moment, some guy, some have
• 43:52
  little moments, some have bigger moments, you know, But he has
• 43:54
  made sure that there's a lot in there, you know, even if it's
• 43:58
  just a tiny little 32nd Easter Eggy sort of scene, that's, you
• 44:03
  know, that's enough. I think he sort of.
• 44:06
  He gauges the juggling act. Really, really well.
• 44:11
  That everybody can say, yeah, that box has ticked, yeah,
• 44:14
  nobody feels shortchanged. Yeah.
• 44:17
  In fact, a homage to the original Dalek city and and
• 44:20
  things like that, just enough to evoke.
• 44:24
  What would have been a joy would be if they'd have done a Day of
• 44:26
  the Doctor moment. I don't know if Colin had been
• 44:29
  cast at this point. And he'd had a quick oh,
• 44:31
  wouldn't that have been amazing? But no, there's no way JNT would
• 44:36
  have done that. No.
• 44:38
  But you know what's delightful is Colin Baker and Sylvester
• 44:42
  McCoy are both watching this on the behind the sofa.
• 44:45
  And so it feels like finally, sort of all the classic series
• 44:49
  comes together in the five boxes.
• 44:52
  And Colin's loving it. He's absolutely like, he goes,
• 44:55
  this is fantastic. He goes, I'm very jealous, so
• 44:57
  I'm not in this. Oh, here we go.
• 45:02
  Down that alley. Push push the garlic.
• 45:06
  Of course, Susan couldn't think up the plan, because she she's
• 45:08
  too too. Much of an airhead for that.
• 45:10
  Yes, there's nothing for the trip over.
• 45:12
  But, you know, let's give Carol off all their kudos.
• 45:15
  That moment that everyone celebrates when they walk into
• 45:17
  the TARDIS and they've got no lines at all together.
• 45:20
  Her and she, Davidson. And yet they look at each other
• 45:23
  like they're about to jump into bed.
• 45:24
  I mean, it's quite a moment. What?
• 45:28
  And this was magnificent. The Dalek exploding?
• 45:31
  Yes. And seeing the mutants for the
• 45:33
  first time. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:35
  Oh God, that was exciting. As an 8 year old, I can't tell
• 45:38
  you. And I really admire the ambition
• 45:41
  of the window with the dark towel outside, You know, it
• 45:45
  looks primitive now, but at the time that.
• 45:48
  They sold it at the time. Quite a feat to pull off.
• 45:51
  And Peter Howell's Horn of Rasolon just goose pimples every
• 45:57
  time or the Peter Howell. As I've heard someone called it.
• 46:05
  Brilliantly brought back at the end of Part 2 of the Gray oh.
• 46:09
  My God, I nearly came in my pants when I heard that.
• 46:15
  Was it my favorite pairing? I think of the story is the 2nd
• 46:18
  Doctor and the Brig, because the Brig is just having none of this
• 46:23
  and he's really. And it's not an obvious pairing.
• 46:26
  That's what I like about it. But there there's such warmth
• 46:29
  between them, it's really great. A.
• 46:33
  Trenton's naughty and the Brigadier is resolute and he's
• 46:36
  not. I mean, if I had to name my
• 46:38
  favorite doctor in this, it's trout by mile.
• 46:40
  He's just having the best time, isn't he?
• 46:43
  Are you in pain, Doctor? Age is not mileage.
• 46:45
  Who has a Brigadier? He is now at as an 8 year old.
• 46:49
  Purpley was my favorite. I thought Purpley was amazing.
• 46:54
  I went off. Purpley They do no roll.
• 46:56
  Hang on a minute. Catch hold of this.
• 46:58
  Yes. Well, I'm going to say out of
• 47:00
  the Doctors, my favorite This one's Davison.
• 47:02
  Ohio. You're mad what?
• 47:04
  Is that he's so powering. Oh.
• 47:09
  Oh. Why Peter Davison, right?
• 47:12
  I mean, he gets the the best lines, but he's at that point of
• 47:15
  his portrayal of the Doctor, where he knows how to deliver
• 47:20
  his line. So when he gets things like, you
• 47:22
  know, I wear the crown of Russell on as a very fetching it
• 47:25
  is too, you know, he's. Got his best lives.
• 47:29
  Sorry, Mustache. He's really kind of he's got
• 47:35
  that balance now of of really how he wants to play it.
• 47:38
  He's he's getting to my favorite era of Davidson, which is the
• 47:42
  Norfolk's left to give 21 and you can see you can see that in
• 47:47
  him. You know, it's he's, he's still
• 47:49
  got a lot of energy about him though.
• 47:52
  And unlike most of Season 20, he's been written as a character
• 47:56
  here. Yeah, I wonder.
• 47:57
  He's actually got lines that aren't just telling you what's
• 48:00
  happening. He got he picked up this script
• 48:02
  and he went oh oh thank goodness I'm fun after that tedious last
• 48:06
  season we did oh wait phrase we're.
• 48:08
  Going to talk about that. So he's so.
• 48:09
  Pleased to. See anyone?
• 48:13
  So that wonderful last season we did.
• 48:14
  Yeah, that's it. Oh yes, Sarah Dane falling down
• 48:17
  her very slightly. Yeah.
• 48:19
  Oh, she she does what she's told.
• 48:23
  Have you boys fallen down and inclined like Sarah Jane?
• 48:26
  I've done it a few Times Now. Yes, yeah.
• 48:28
  Many. I'm always falling over so.
• 48:32
  Did John Perkwick come to your rescue?
• 48:34
  He. Did.
• 48:35
  No, no, no. No, no, it's.
• 48:38
  Not that you know, he he he's clearly loving every second of
• 48:48
  being. Oh God, he's so pleased to be
• 48:50
  back, isn't? He as far as he's concerned,
• 48:53
  this is his story. Yes.
• 48:54
  Yes, absolutely. And Liz, you are my companion
• 48:58
  and you will not mix with these others.
• 49:01
  And the most. My my other favorite moment's
• 49:04
  coming up now where Susan walks 4 paces and.
• 49:09
  Hammond, see the TARDIS. I suggest we go and find out.
• 49:16
  If they've had the same weather. 345.
• 49:22
  Yeah, that is a bad bit of direction.
• 49:24
  It's that's yeah that's right T direction that you because you
• 49:29
  can't see it on the screen, you can't see it.
• 49:31
  Yeah, if that had the same sort of conditions as the previous
• 49:36
  scene with the where the Doctor can't make out the Cyberman
• 49:40
  because of the. Yes.
• 49:41
  Yeah, maybe that was the idea. Absolutely fine.
• 49:47
  It does seem weird having these two in this control room,
• 49:51
  doesn't it? Who are you?
• 49:53
  I love all of that though. In fact, I like all the box
• 49:57
  ticking that Terrance does in this, like having Sarah meet the
• 50:01
  Master, because if you look at her timeline, she just missed
• 50:04
  him by a couple of stories. And then she.
• 50:07
  And she just missed it by a couple of stories.
• 50:10
  So I love it when she goes. Who's that?
• 50:16
  Actually, I think Davidson and Handel have a nice chemistry.
• 50:19
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 50:21
  Look, I've got something to say to you too, all right?
• 50:23
  Look, Fraser, this young man sire me needs some refreshment,
• 50:29
  and I know that Mark and I do too.
• 50:31
  Get on with it, will you? Do with some pineapples I've.
• 50:38
  Got to see what I've got in the cupboard.
• 50:39
  And I'm Tegan, you wanker. Who might you be?
• 50:47
  Oh, someone do that line please. The original, you might say.
• 50:53
  You shouldn't be here at the same time with him.
• 50:58
  Oh, it's just great. Caroline Ford.
• 51:02
  She's like, please give me a line.
• 51:03
  To say. So what do we think of of Handel
• 51:09
  as the First Doctor? Terence, right.
• 51:14
  Terence's first Doctor is interesting because he takes the
• 51:18
  crotchety old man. That because the only Doctor
• 51:22
  whose story with the 1st Doctor anyone has seen is An Unearthly
• 51:25
  Child when it was repeated. And so in the 80s, we're very
• 51:30
  much the the 1st Doctor's grumpy.
• 51:33
  He's, yeah, crotchety, he's old and tired and they forget that
• 51:41
  the 1st Doctor's actually really huggy and giggly and fun and
• 51:47
  silly and all of those things. So you get the grandfather
• 51:51
  figure, but you don't get all the other aspects of of his
• 51:55
  Doctor. So.
• 51:56
  And again, Terence has only novelised one of his stories at
• 51:59
  this point as well, so he hasn't actually done very much with him
• 52:02
  and he's very much written like he's in The Three Doctors.
• 52:06
  But I do think he gets like huddles, keen intelligence, his
• 52:12
  wisdom, and he gives him the climax of this story.
• 52:17
  He gives the first stop, so the first stop to figures it all out
• 52:20
  plays Bruce through his own game.
• 52:23
  So I think actually in terms of characterization might come out
• 52:30
  best of all. But you're right, it is.
• 52:31
  I think Herndl really leads into being grumpy and and
• 52:36
  argumentative and all of that, but you're watching in the
• 52:39
  behind the scenes stuff. He's such a meek and gentleman.
• 52:43
  He's really given a great performance.
• 52:46
  I mean it's, it's, it's presumably not just Terence
• 52:49
  that's driving this. You've got to look at the
• 52:51
  direction as well, you know, Peter Moffat and, you know,
• 52:55
  probably driven by GNT as well. You know, like you say, the
• 52:58
  Doctor, First Doctor was a grumpy old man, the old, old
• 53:02
  fellow. We've seen this in the Three
• 53:03
  Doctors, We've seen this in whatever the other ones are
• 53:06
  watching. That's what you need to do.
• 53:07
  You need to come in and do a William Hartnell impression,
• 53:10
  basically. You know, so where is where is
• 53:13
  Herndl going to say, you know, get that from, you know, I think
• 53:16
  he, he gets what he's very good at is getting the sort of the
• 53:22
  cadence of William Hartnell's voice right.
• 53:25
  You know, he has that. The right inflections and the
• 53:27
  right, you know, emphasis is in the sharpness he brings the
• 53:31
  dialogue, which when you look at David Bradley, I think is what's
• 53:35
  missing from his performance. It's really that sort of like,
• 53:39
  you know, it's staccato where you can be, but I think Hendel
• 53:42
  really. Although I think Bradley brings
• 53:44
  more warmth and Hartle didn't have a lot of warmth in his.
• 53:48
  He did, but. They're all sort of cherry
• 53:50
  picking some. Parts, yeah.
• 53:51
  And not the whole, yeah. Well, because no one's heart,
• 53:54
  no, are they? No, no, no, absolutely not.
• 53:56
  But I think it's a very good turn and it was my first 1st
• 54:02
  Doctor. Yeah, for some time.
• 54:04
  Yeah, yeah. And Carol, I mean, and Carol Ann
• 54:08
  speaks very warmly of him and say just that moment where she
• 54:12
  looked, he was in the studio and he turned round and she got
• 54:15
  that, oh moment from just by seeing him.
• 54:21
  Well, I think if you squint as well he he absolutely has the
• 54:23
  silhouette of. Yes, definitely.
• 54:26
  Aren't all of these locations just glorious?
• 54:29
  All these, all those trees, trees and the rocks everywhere
• 54:33
  and the water behind them, Like there's good value in Wales.
• 54:36
  They should go there more often. I was.
• 54:38
  Going to see where is this filmed because it looks very
• 54:40
  sort of like. It's Snowdonia.
• 54:42
  Snowdonia. Yeah, it it's beautiful scenery.
• 54:47
  It's bloody cold. Is this where purple goes?
• 54:51
  The delighting deviousness, that's why.
• 54:54
  That's why. And another bit of my favorite
• 54:57
  Peter Howe music here, and my favorite Sarah Jane line and the
• 55:01
  whole thing. Look, do you think This is why I
• 55:03
  stopped for I mean, well, what if it's in that tower?
• 55:05
  It's got enormous power and what can we do against it?
• 55:08
  And perk. Me says improvise and she does
• 55:10
  the most amazing eye roll that I'm not really clocked until I
• 55:14
  saw it on the big screen at the BFI and something it's huge.
• 55:17
  Boy, it's one of the best behind the scenes footage.
• 55:20
  As well where? Perk We stalls the car and goes.
• 55:23
  Oh. Shit it, Elizabeth says.
• 55:26
  It's hard being a softer drive today.
• 55:29
  I mean, we'll pick flaws at Susan not noticing the TARDIS
• 55:34
  right in front of her, but it's exactly the same with Terry
• 55:37
  Russell on, you know, everyone's oh, that's the terrible one.
• 55:39
  It's, it's. Well, I didn't notice it before,
• 55:43
  now he's pointed it out. Right in front of.
• 55:47
  Us. Why does Anthony look like an
• 55:50
  evil version of Little Red Winey Hood?
• 55:53
  It's the Cape. Oh, see, this is.
• 55:57
  Because he knows how cold it is, so he's brought a Cape.
• 55:59
  Obviously you've got to have the Third Doctrine, the master
• 56:01
  together, but we're meeting Aynley.
• 56:03
  Yeah, wonderful. And they they're great, this
• 56:07
  seems. Wonderful.
• 56:07
  They've got real their their dialogue sizzles between them.
• 56:11
  I think you're right. I think he's right in Delgado
• 56:13
  and he's just responding brilliantly.
• 56:15
  Absolutely. But he's he's still got the sort
• 56:18
  of he's still got a bit of pantomime about him because he
• 56:20
  knows this is this is a celebration you know is there's
• 56:23
  like you say there's there's nothing deep over this story
• 56:25
  other than just go out and have fun.
• 56:26
  So he is but. I think I was finally.
• 56:28
  Getting He's finally getting brilliant lines like one of my
• 56:32
  predecessors. Sorry, what's your question?
• 56:35
  And he plays every. Line brilliantly.
• 56:39
  So my question is, what's the masters real name?
• 56:43
  Jehoshaphat, it really is you. Yes, I thought it was Kosheki or
• 56:51
  something like that. It's just like whose real name
• 56:55
  is Pete the Masters real name Jehoshaphat.
• 56:59
  I thought that for the longest time.
• 57:02
  These thunderbolts are everywhere.
• 57:05
  Let's keep talking. My coffee has just been
• 57:07
  delivered. Oh, here he goes.
• 57:12
  Oh, and bang, let's write Bessie out of the story now.
• 57:16
  There she goes. Oh, look at Anthony One.
• 57:20
  That's not Anthony one. And is it that's?
• 57:21
  The baby successor behind the sofa?
• 57:23
  That's definitely not Anthony Anthony.
• 57:27
  Apparently he was a bit of a coward when it came to special
• 57:30
  effects. I've got that Tower of Wrestle
• 57:33
  on on AT. Shirt you have, yes.
• 57:35
  I have. I love that.
• 57:37
  I'm not sure Doctor Who's special effects ever got more
• 57:39
  sophisticated than that screen, if I'm honest.
• 57:41
  For the time, For the time that was going to be bang on, yeah,
• 57:44
  I. Put away.
• 57:45
  See what I mean? A trap.
• 57:47
  Trap. None of it.
• 57:51
  Like. It's so weird.
• 57:52
  They all deliver lines in very different ways, but their power,
• 57:57
  their personalities are also powerful in such unique ways.
• 58:01
  And actually, and this isn't an attack on Peter Davidson, but I
• 58:04
  just think like you bring them all in together, Davidson is the
• 58:08
  most muted or actually to use the word you like, using
• 58:11
  phraser, the most subtle of all of them.
• 58:15
  So it depends what kind of what you're looking for, you know,
• 58:18
  and I prefer the more Jon Pertwee Joshua Fat.
• 58:22
  Exactly. I mean, if you put John Pertwee,
• 58:25
  Tom Big and Colin Big, I mean a scene together.
• 58:28
  Oh, you know. Screen.
• 58:29
  Couldn't. Handle.
• 58:31
  The sets couldn't handle it, you know the doors would be blown
• 58:33
  off. Everything.
• 58:34
  At that map shot of the tower in between.
• 58:38
  That is terrific. That holds up today.
• 58:41
  Yeah. This is why we were convinced it
• 58:45
  was a real place, because it all looks so brilliant.
• 58:49
  Was there extra money in this? Yeah, the ABC gave the money.
• 58:53
  The Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
• 58:55
  It was a joint, Yeah. Oh dear.
• 59:03
  Your tone doesn't. And again, it's that classic
• 59:08
  thing of the Companion undercutting.
• 59:11
  Every moment that the Doctor has so trance is being grave and the
• 59:14
  Brigadiers just said no, we haven't none of this.
• 59:18
  And Trouton gives them that look.
• 59:20
  He gives them the look. They really are terrific, if you
• 59:22
  ever aren't. They he goes.
• 59:25
  Well, one above 1 below in the main door.
• 59:28
  Well, which route will you take? Well, the main door?
• 59:30
  Main door? He's a.
• 59:32
  Sensible Dr. You see. Of course.
• 59:36
  No, we're the only one who's fucking abseiling across.
• 59:41
  What do we do now, Fly? Where can you get that Wicker
• 59:45
  furniture from that the TARDIS is decorated with?
• 59:48
  We we had that in our library at Wisley when I first joined.
• 59:52
  We had Wicker furniture all the way from I think you can get
• 59:55
  into garden centres. Multi coloured drinks with
• 59:57
  twirly straws. Oh, he's eaten.
• 1:00:00
  He's pineapple. Oh.
• 1:00:02
  That is still the teeth. Have you seen the outtake of
• 1:00:05
  that? Yeah, he's there.
• 1:00:07
  Well, it's in the whole special, isn't it?
• 1:00:10
  Oh, what is Liz Slayton wearing? Jesus.
• 1:00:12
  Christ. I think who's the costume
• 1:00:15
  designer on this one, I feel like.
• 1:00:16
  She's all in Lanvers. I don't think he's watched any
• 1:00:19
  of her stories, you know. Oh, they took her shopping.
• 1:00:24
  No, she chose it. Yeah, she chose that.
• 1:00:26
  Her and Caroline Ford went shopping to choose their
• 1:00:28
  costumes up at Brent Cross Shopping Centre.
• 1:00:31
  Oh. My God, one of my favourite
• 1:00:33
  Lanza's coming up in a minute. Doctor.
• 1:00:35
  Lookout. Cyberman.
• 1:00:38
  Goodbye. That is the ultimate Nobody's
• 1:00:41
  paying attention, MO. Yes.
• 1:00:42
  Can we just have a chat? No, no, no, no, no.
• 1:00:44
  Oh, what's going on behind us? Oh, bugger.
• 1:00:49
  It's not for that reason. It's called What Is He?
• 1:00:52
  He says. I've forgotten a line in mind.
• 1:00:56
  The Death Zone. Well, well, well.
• 1:01:00
  I wonder what happened to the other He really bares his teeth,
• 1:01:05
  just like old Fraser. Look at that weather.
• 1:01:07
  I know it, but it just gives, yeah, like the atmosphere.
• 1:01:11
  I don't. You can understand why they
• 1:01:12
  can't see the tumor Russell on, until the right on top of it
• 1:01:15
  when the weather's like that. But apparently Mark went to that
• 1:01:18
  slate or he was absolutely frail to be running around the death
• 1:01:23
  zone of Gallifrey. I think his partner at the time
• 1:01:26
  was a bit like, yeah, it's very cold.
• 1:01:27
  Can we get back to the car please?
• 1:01:29
  Was he doing full on rust on warrior jumps?
• 1:01:32
  I would imagine so, yeah. I've been dancing away so the
• 1:01:35
  music of Daleks 2150 AD for about half hour the other day in
• 1:01:40
  my living room. I love the story told we told on
• 1:01:44
  to watch her when they did this. Where when you watch it for the
• 1:01:47
  first time, you didn't realize Turtle was a companion.
• 1:01:51
  He just thought he was a guy with a sketchbook of the Doctor
• 1:01:54
  Who stumbles across as you do, You know.
• 1:01:56
  Morning. Morning.
• 1:01:57
  How are you? I.
• 1:01:57
  Said. They didn't even say hello or.
• 1:01:58
  Anything. And he went, yeah, well, you
• 1:02:00
  know. And then just got swept up in
• 1:02:02
  the in the adventure. Oh, he goes.
• 1:02:06
  I'm finding this quite bracing, Tegan.
• 1:02:08
  I wish I was. I was.
• 1:02:12
  I feel like. Chris Chibnall captured her
• 1:02:14
  perfectly in Power of the Doctor.
• 1:02:16
  You know she weren't having none of it, was she?
• 1:02:18
  No, no. But she was secretly really
• 1:02:20
  enjoying it. Yeah.
• 1:02:21
  Yeah. Yeah, well, that goodbye they
• 1:02:25
  had in her and Davidson in Power of the Doctor.
• 1:02:28
  Yeah, oh. Oh, here he is, my favorite
• 1:02:32
  Cyberman. Oh, oh.
• 1:02:36
  Oh. He found the ones.
• 1:02:37
  The ones on. It.
• 1:02:40
  I should take the patrol and destroy them.
• 1:02:43
  Oh, and of course Susan doesn't know who the master is.
• 1:02:45
  No. And all of those things, Yeah,
• 1:02:48
  I'm. Going to try and do my best,
• 1:02:50
  David Banks. Now you ready?
• 1:02:52
  When the tower is, you know our hands.
• 1:02:55
  It will be destroyed. How did I?
• 1:03:02
  Do here are your orders. He's.
• 1:03:05
  Very camp, that cyber Lieutenant.
• 1:03:06
  He is. Do your best, David Banks.
• 1:03:09
  Excellent. Excellent.
• 1:03:12
  Excellent. Excellent.
• 1:03:15
  Can't do it without crushing your.
• 1:03:17
  This. Is excellent.
• 1:03:19
  News. Doctor Oh, that's a shock, isn't
• 1:03:22
  it? Actually, Davidson gets
• 1:03:24
  brilliant lies in this scene. Doesn't.
• 1:03:25
  He He does, doesn't he? Is he goes like Alice?
• 1:03:28
  I try and. Try to free impossible for
• 1:03:31
  breakfast. Oh, Terry.
• 1:03:34
  You expect me to believe the outrageous tale?
• 1:03:37
  Imagine if you'd had one Terrance a season for Davidson.
• 1:03:41
  That would have been great, wouldn't it?
• 1:03:44
  Turn around. Oh my God, it's the.
• 1:03:45
  Cybermen. Yeah, we were so busy in our
• 1:03:48
  conversation we didn't notice you all coming from beyond that
• 1:03:51
  rock. Listen.
• 1:03:54
  After you. Oh.
• 1:03:55
  No Susan's going to trip. Over now, ain't she well?
• 1:03:57
  Of course she is. The.
• 1:03:58
  Music here being zapped first. The music is like.
• 1:04:02
  Dun Dun. It's.
• 1:04:03
  Really. Yeah.
• 1:04:04
  The music is driving this scene. Oh, should I help the master?
• 1:04:10
  Should I help? Zapped now.
• 1:04:14
  Comedy. And again, it's it's the 5th
• 1:04:16
  doctors. Two of his.
• 1:04:18
  His his catchphrases in one one thing because you've got the
• 1:04:22
  zapped line because it which comes up a lot.
• 1:04:25
  And also the mustache he does in several stories from Castro
• 1:04:29
  Valva onwards. But he's so cool here.
• 1:04:32
  Look at that hand in pocket and that big.
• 1:04:35
  Smile. To be fair, to be him off it, I
• 1:04:38
  think that was really well directed.
• 1:04:39
  There's been lots of different camera angles, the pace of it's
• 1:04:42
  really good. Oh, oh, it's a weird.
• 1:04:45
  Thing about some of the more sort of theatrical directors as
• 1:04:50
  as soon as they're outside, they're.
• 1:04:51
  Suddenly. Very, yeah, they.
• 1:04:53
  Do film but they can't do monkey camera.
• 1:04:55
  Camera in yes, studio now are. You talking about Richard Martin
• 1:04:59
  there by any chance? Yep, the Nos came back.
• 1:05:03
  Did they? Roberts as well, though Penny
• 1:05:05
  Roberts, when he goes outside, is usually pretty good.
• 1:05:12
  This is not the doctor. Take him the master.
• 1:05:17
  Having to cozy up for the side men is so.
• 1:05:19
  Fun. Think on his feet and try and
• 1:05:22
  plug him. Like he once used to drive sheep
• 1:05:25
  across Minefield, the principal's, the same Mado Mado
• 1:05:31
  I wished her was could have written for him more.
• 1:05:34
  Oh, Turlow's a bit short changed actually, isn't he?
• 1:05:37
  Very short, I think of all he he gets the least to do, he.
• 1:05:42
  Doesn't even get Does he even get the Grote, the TARDIS?
• 1:05:44
  Yeah, he goes into the tomb of wrestling on the head.
• 1:05:48
  Yeah, you've got the chance to twist an angle.
• 1:05:50
  No, but he's it's he is. Mark Strickson and Caroline Ford
• 1:05:55
  are nice together, I think, as well, yeah.
• 1:05:58
  I I like it when she goes, what is it?
• 1:06:00
  It's a. Bomb.
• 1:06:01
  And it just goes big big. Isn't it?
• 1:06:05
  He can deliver a lot. I actually do think Turlo across
• 1:06:09
  his run after those first three stories are out of the way.
• 1:06:12
  He is kind of wasted and it's a shame.
• 1:06:15
  Well, no one finds no Strix. To do with him.
• 1:06:17
  Strixon then was a real presence, you know, on camera.
• 1:06:22
  Yes. Like when they gave him stuff to
• 1:06:24
  do in frontiers, he was like, oh thank God, I've.
• 1:06:27
  Not been knocked up makes a change.
• 1:06:29
  Oh, now we're going to get a whole deluge of scenes on Gay
• 1:06:33
  Gallifrey. Well, who do you think's got the
• 1:06:37
  best hat of? All of them.
• 1:06:41
  Brusis is pretty. Brusis is good.
• 1:06:43
  Both of his hats are good. You need Maxill though, don't
• 1:06:46
  you? You need Maxill and.
• 1:06:47
  Esmo alda, yeah. Maxill would have been great in
• 1:06:51
  this wouldn't. He.
• 1:06:53
  Yeah, not falling under contract.
• 1:06:55
  Get him in. I finally had enough of that
• 1:06:58
  dreadful Castellan who in the rehearsals made me go get him
• 1:07:02
  orange juice. Do you remember that story?
• 1:07:07
  That's the most interesting thing about Ark of Infinity.
• 1:07:09
  It's. Very strange though because she
• 1:07:10
  doesn't really get much to do Charles of Flavia, but I feel
• 1:07:13
  like she's had a life far beyond the five Doctors.
• 1:07:16
  Obviously the the music from series one to four of the new
• 1:07:21
  series is called the The You know The Flavia theme and she
• 1:07:27
  turns up in so many bloody spin off books.
• 1:07:30
  She does, doesn't she? Yeah, Lee Binding always had a
• 1:07:36
  theory that her and the master had been shagging, and there's
• 1:07:39
  just the frisson of looks between them when when they
• 1:07:43
  arrive. And in fact, basically, she's
• 1:07:46
  just shaked everyone who's here. Oh no, we're heading for the
• 1:07:51
  most info. We are breeding.
• 1:07:55
  We've got to go through the black squirrels first.
• 1:07:57
  And that is against some stiff competition, yes.
• 1:08:01
  You know, last time we did NESCA.
• 1:08:05
  No, you Shard. You can't you Shard.
• 1:08:07
  Take me. Ohh.
• 1:08:08
  My husband, My love. Why?
• 1:08:10
  Why? Why?
• 1:08:11
  Imagine if she got time scooped into the Five Doctors.
• 1:08:15
  There's that brilliant book is a bit in the Scarlet Empress,
• 1:08:18
  isn't there? Where they have the Iris,
• 1:08:20
  Wildtime version of The Five Doctors, where she's basically
• 1:08:23
  off against the zombie and the Clarks and all the.
• 1:08:27
  I think the Chamblees are there as well, aren't they?
• 1:08:32
  There's five versions of Iris there.
• 1:08:34
  Yeah, those. Thank God they only time scooped
• 1:08:37
  in the rubbish monsters to. Come up against.
• 1:08:42
  But I think we're doing it to shout out the David Banks
• 1:08:44
  because, you know, his cyber leader is a really good
• 1:08:47
  character. And I think the reason is, is
• 1:08:50
  because he is a character. He's not just yes, he's not.
• 1:08:53
  You know, he gives them, you know, little twists of the head
• 1:08:57
  and the way that he's like, I do not believe your lies and he's
• 1:09:00
  jabbing at. His finger when they're talking
• 1:09:02
  on behind the sofa. Sophie Aldridge and Janet
• 1:09:08
  Fielding both recognize David Banks just from his body
• 1:09:12
  language. They both say, look, you can
• 1:09:14
  just see how he's look at how he's moving, you know, that's
• 1:09:17
  definitely David back. Actually, he came back in a big
• 1:09:20
  finish audio called Hour of the Cybermen.
• 1:09:22
  Right? And it wasn't a particularly
• 1:09:24
  great audio. The story wasn't great.
• 1:09:27
  But the second I heard his voice as the cyber leader, it just
• 1:09:31
  blew anyone that I've ever played.
• 1:09:33
  What? Nicholas Briggs out of the water
• 1:09:36
  and. It was.
• 1:09:36
  Chivas. I was like, my God, he.
• 1:09:39
  Was brilliant and and at this point.
• 1:09:42
  In. 1983 The Cybermen were my favorite because Ershock had
• 1:09:46
  made such an impression, and the Cybermen were so cool that
• 1:09:51
  having them here felt absolutely justified.
• 1:09:54
  At this point, they were the biggest thing in Doctor Who.
• 1:09:57
  Oh my God, we are heading towards Doctor Who now.
• 1:10:01
  Here we are, this this quarry, right?
• 1:10:05
  We at school when I was a teenager, so about 1990, So I
• 1:10:10
  was 15 and I was just 15 because it was just after my birthday.
• 1:10:14
  We went to North Wales for an adventure holiday and part of
• 1:10:17
  the adventure holiday was we had a night hike and so we had to
• 1:10:21
  walk a long way and then we slept out on the mountain and we
• 1:10:24
  literally turned round the corner and we were in that
• 1:10:30
  quarry and I knew exactly where we were and I had one of those,
• 1:10:34
  Oh my God moments. And everyone was just looking at
• 1:10:38
  me like, like what? What?
• 1:10:41
  And I said Doctor Who came here and it's like.
• 1:10:44
  Men and Oh my God. I've got a bit of slate from
• 1:10:48
  that quarry, You know, I'm like, we're going to keep that dirty
• 1:10:51
  our rock. Yes, we are.
• 1:10:53
  OK. Sorry, you know, I said.
• 1:10:56
  How Terrance is ticking off a load of things hurt.
• 1:10:58
  We in the side men. That's another one.
• 1:11:00
  Absolutely. We should have happened, but
• 1:11:05
  yeah, didn't until this point. And hurt we is so cool here.
• 1:11:09
  I think you know what they did. Remember those fabulous black
• 1:11:13
  androids from Earth Shock, Because that's clearly the.
• 1:11:16
  Instagram It's basically it's it's the same costume just
• 1:11:19
  sprayed silver. But just with the edits of him
• 1:11:22
  zapping up, Yeah. Oh glorious.
• 1:11:25
  I love to look the way the Doctor says it, says Freeze.
• 1:11:28
  Sarah Jane. If you move, we're dead with his
• 1:11:31
  hair flapping in the wind. Look at the bum on that Raston
• 1:11:37
  warrior, right? Oh my God.
• 1:11:40
  So the question is then, Simon, when you went to this quarry,
• 1:11:42
  did you do a Raston Warrior robot jump?
• 1:11:47
  Yes, caution. Why wouldn't you?
• 1:11:50
  Kindly. Refrain from addressing me as.
• 1:11:53
  Doc, I love him so much. And that line is absolutely
• 1:12:00
  repeated by Colin in The Twin Dilemma.
• 1:12:03
  Yep, you know, I'm. I'm going with Pete's Theory.
• 1:12:08
  Oh my God. When I was a kid, the thought of
• 1:12:11
  these burning scrolls inside that box.
• 1:12:14
  I don't know why that was so cool.
• 1:12:15
  Well. What?
• 1:12:17
  Yeah, it was. Awesome.
• 1:12:19
  Like, it's very a very simple effect I can see now I am.
• 1:12:23
  Innocent. I have not seen that casket
• 1:12:27
  before. Well, you're taking no chances,
• 1:12:32
  I. Love Paul Jericho?
• 1:12:35
  He's so. I mean, it's not exactly The
• 1:12:38
  West Wing in. Terms of political.
• 1:12:41
  It's not I, Claudius. It's.
• 1:12:43
  Comes here we. Go.
• 1:12:46
  Who's going to do it first? What?
• 1:12:51
  No, not the mind probe. Who's next?
• 1:12:56
  No, not the mind robe. And finally.
• 1:13:00
  What? No, not the mind robe.
• 1:13:05
  I mean not dumping. There's a way you can say that.
• 1:13:08
  Well, as you can see he was armed and tried to escape it's
• 1:13:12
  way. Too much of all this.
• 1:13:14
  Isn't it? Honestly, that was Colin Baker
• 1:13:16
  just. He'll be the central character
• 1:13:19
  in this story. These these sets are so I'll be
• 1:13:25
  kind appalling, But I can see why he wanted to leave
• 1:13:30
  Gallifrey. It seems very boring.
• 1:13:34
  But this is the fun version of Gallifrey.
• 1:13:36
  I mean compare this Gallifrey at arc of Infinity's Gallifrey.
• 1:13:40
  I'll keep it that's. Not the Craig.
• 1:13:41
  Gregory. You know this is this is
• 1:13:46
  actually. In Arc of Infinity, he couldn't
• 1:13:48
  remember any of his lines, could he?
• 1:13:51
  Pulsing fetched. Fallia the mustachioed bruiser.
• 1:13:59
  I actually wonder if would this all have been a bit too bland
• 1:14:04
  for Tom Baker's being all these scenes, or would he just they?
• 1:14:07
  Would have had a different frisson with with Tom, because
• 1:14:12
  remember Terence was setting him up to appear as the villain of
• 1:14:15
  the piece as well, because he always said Tom was the only
• 1:14:19
  Doctor you could think would would go bad.
• 1:14:21
  So I was going to going to put that cast of suspicion.
• 1:14:24
  Shouldn't if it had been Tom Baker doesn't.
• 1:14:26
  I'm scooping, everyone. Oh please.
• 1:14:31
  Oh my God. But just for a laugh, you know,
• 1:14:34
  he's had a few tins. Oh dear, good grief, it's a yet.
• 1:14:41
  I got bored of playing chess with K9 and.
• 1:14:43
  Playing the game of Rascal on. I'm going to yes, they didn't
• 1:14:51
  end up together on screen too much, but never mind, you know.
• 1:14:56
  Oh, I love this. It's a galactic glitter.
• 1:14:58
  Glitter. Don't carry fireworks in your
• 1:15:00
  pockets, kids. No, he's that again.
• 1:15:04
  As a kid, I thought that was very cool.
• 1:15:06
  This all these sparks like that everywhere.
• 1:15:09
  And it's the pockets as well, it's the.
• 1:15:11
  It's the Doctor and you get all to the Brigadier and just goes,
• 1:15:14
  oh do. You know what it is, right?
• 1:15:17
  Terrance Sticks can just boil down the essence of Doctor Who,
• 1:15:20
  can't he? Yes, and from scene to scene,
• 1:15:23
  it's just so Doctor Who. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:15:26
  And he knows all these doctors really well.
• 1:15:29
  It is possibly indulgent a lot of this, but.
• 1:15:33
  It's a. It's a special.
• 1:15:34
  Yeah. It's it's just one scene after
• 1:15:40
  another of like, yeah, that's why I love this.
• 1:15:42
  Yeah, that's why I love this, you know?
• 1:15:47
  Ah, where there's a wind, there's a.
• 1:15:50
  Wind. And in fact, is that a set that
• 1:15:54
  they go through into that cave or is that they just put a part
• 1:15:57
  of the set? In The Cave.
• 1:15:58
  They put a door in in the back of The Cave and then behind that
• 1:16:03
  is more cave. But in terms of sort of
• 1:16:06
  realisation even that that sort of primitive but good shot, CSO
• 1:16:12
  shot of the first Doctor and Tegan in front of that big door
• 1:16:16
  in terms of sort of realising a location and then with the long
• 1:16:20
  shots, with the model of the tower and all that, it's
• 1:16:22
  probably one of the best, right? Yeah, I think so.
• 1:16:24
  And you've got that scene with Pertwee and and Sarah at the top
• 1:16:29
  of the tower as well, and where they're matching into the
• 1:16:33
  bottom. I love that bitch.
• 1:16:36
  She's absolutely hysterical at that point, Is she?
• 1:16:38
  Look at me. Look at me.
• 1:16:41
  I don't know what she's saying. Oh, this is so funny.
• 1:16:46
  After you, Brigadier. No, no after.
• 1:16:49
  You that. Would be me with you too.
• 1:16:52
  Go on after. You guys, come on.
• 1:16:56
  I was like me with him down the main shaft on Monday.
• 1:16:59
  Yeah, he has to make me go first.
• 1:17:00
  I. Feel like sending a Canary?
• 1:17:04
  Down. See where I'd bash my head.
• 1:17:08
  Will, Will you like Missy with Clara or in the, which is
• 1:17:12
  familiar. Is it all right down there?
• 1:17:18
  Now, that bomb doesn't go a lot like a suitcase, doesn't it?
• 1:17:21
  It. Does.
• 1:17:25
  Oh, here we go. What's your favorite cyber death
• 1:17:29
  and why is it the fellow who pukes?
• 1:17:32
  No, it's the it's the cyber head that just sort of collapses in
• 1:17:37
  on itself I think is most. Brilliant.
• 1:17:39
  Put a bit of money in this. Right.
• 1:17:41
  I think so. And sort of in terms of
• 1:17:44
  pyrotechnics and effects, I think this is probably the most
• 1:17:47
  impressive until remembrance maybe.
• 1:17:50
  Yeah, I think so. Nothing will ever top those
• 1:17:55
  Daleks blowing up in the streets in remembrance.
• 1:17:57
  So. So good.
• 1:17:59
  Gorgeous. It was it that did all the
• 1:18:01
  deaths. Here was it.
• 1:18:03
  Stuart fell Stuart. Fell Yeah.
• 1:18:05
  And JNT directed This is This is the the thing I always use as
• 1:18:09
  What a shame JNT didn't direct a whole story because he's
• 1:18:12
  clearly. Grant.
• 1:18:14
  Dynamism. Yeah, that hand quivering on the
• 1:18:17
  floor. Oh, and Peter Howe, do you pick
• 1:18:20
  it. It's all Peter.
• 1:18:21
  Muffin must get so annoyed. Oh, but my best favorite
• 1:18:24
  sequence is all those Simon men being killed.
• 1:18:26
  Oh, I. Was.
• 1:18:27
  And there there were complaints. Complaints.
• 1:18:29
  Years later when the video came out and they said, Oh well, the
• 1:18:32
  Cybermen just stand in a line and get massacred.
• 1:18:34
  Well, who fucking cares? It's really great, that's.
• 1:18:38
  The point? Who had this idea about him?
• 1:18:41
  Vomit like that's. Uh huh.
• 1:18:42
  He. Got a spike and he said and a
• 1:18:45
  spit on his arm and he's vomiting Sabre milk.
• 1:18:48
  Do you know what though? The trouble is, this is so
• 1:18:51
  successful, it's what I said earlier.
• 1:18:53
  They tried it again in Attacker side man, they tried it again.
• 1:18:56
  And it's always to lesser. It is, yeah, the the law
• 1:19:01
  diminishing returns. I love Pertwee giving Sarah
• 1:19:05
  every bit of equipment and him just taking a tiny coil of wire
• 1:19:08
  that he he casually puts over his shoulder.
• 1:19:12
  That's so right? I feel like that's sort of
• 1:19:14
  Pertwee's life. That's how he leads his life,
• 1:19:18
  you know, all the heavy stuff to everyone else.
• 1:19:21
  Yeah. But I think it the whole scene
• 1:19:23
  just adds to the specialness of this because you don't get that
• 1:19:26
  in in any of the Doctor Who. You don't get, you know,
• 1:19:30
  monsters lining up to be just blown up.
• 1:19:32
  No. That's what we said earlier.
• 1:19:37
  Yes, that is indulgent, but who cares?
• 1:19:39
  It's so cool. It's it's 2 minutes tops.
• 1:19:43
  Yep. That fountain, I'm sorry, aware
• 1:19:47
  of. Someone's B to B&Q.
• 1:19:50
  That's Habitat. That is, That's a habitat.
• 1:19:52
  Fountain. Oh, sorry, yes.
• 1:19:55
  But no, it is. It's a step up for Markham
• 1:19:56
  Infinity. For Galifree it is, you know.
• 1:19:59
  Not much of a step though. But it is.
• 1:20:01
  You can tell there's a bit more money going.
• 1:20:03
  There's a bit more, yeah, a bit more soft furnishings, a bit
• 1:20:05
  more. I'll tell you what it is.
• 1:20:06
  Fraser is a step up from those bloody hospital corridors we
• 1:20:09
  watched An Invasion of time. The hardest corridors, that
• 1:20:13
  wasn't. Gallifree.
• 1:20:15
  Oh yeah, there's that shot of the Doctor.
• 1:20:17
  Until yeah, that's great. Isn't it quite?
• 1:20:19
  Nice, isn't it? It's an entry coder.
• 1:20:20
  Coder looks very much like a bell to me.
• 1:20:28
  Do you do you wish that we had made the hand glider out of
• 1:20:32
  those poles and his cloak, and then hand glided to the top of
• 1:20:37
  the tower as originally Oh oh. Would be good.
• 1:20:41
  Not a health and safety expert, but I'm going to guess that
• 1:20:46
  tying a very thin piece of wire around a wrong is not safe
• 1:20:52
  enough to have sailed that distance or high.
• 1:20:56
  Have a resourceful Dr. I'll. Tell you what, when you look at
• 1:21:00
  the wire and you notice that there's a big dip in the middle,
• 1:21:03
  Yeah, that's not tight enough to zip line across.
• 1:21:06
  I'm afraid Sarah Jane and the Doctor get stuck in the middle
• 1:21:09
  of there. That's one of the subtle things
• 1:21:11
  that I like that they've corrected in in the 40th
• 1:21:15
  anniversary version where they've just see they've just
• 1:21:18
  CGI the line the the zip wire so that it's straight.
• 1:21:23
  And in fact, the the CGI shots, you know, the long shots of the
• 1:21:27
  tower in that version are gorgeous.
• 1:21:30
  Both loops in one hand. This is this is probably where
• 1:21:33
  the special effects are let down the most.
• 1:21:35
  There's a matte painting in a minute where they're in the
• 1:21:37
  middle and it's all a bit off. But you know what?
• 1:21:41
  It's one. Shot It sells it, Yeah, I.
• 1:21:43
  Can just imagine hook it? Sells it.
• 1:21:46
  I can just imagine Purpley's behind the scenes tale about
• 1:21:49
  this, but I knew that this later was terrified of height.
• 1:21:51
  So what I did? So I dangled her off the edge.
• 1:21:54
  I started off dangling her off a stool and then a chair that I
• 1:21:57
  went over to the table and dangled her off that.
• 1:21:59
  John is fine. I'm acting.
• 1:22:02
  Leave me alone. I think this is around about the
• 1:22:07
  time, you know, where the two of them went across to America
• 1:22:11
  together, her with Brian Miller and him with inable Pertwee, and
• 1:22:19
  they did a whole load of sort of conventions and appearances over
• 1:22:23
  in America together. She details it in her
• 1:22:26
  autobiography. Yes.
• 1:22:27
  And apparently it was very slapdash and Pertwee was pissed
• 1:22:30
  most of the time. It's wonderful stories though.
• 1:22:33
  Oh God, this scene is great. How long do you plan and play
• 1:22:38
  pitch and toss? Patience child.
• 1:22:41
  Oh, it's definitely pitch and toss Dial Public DWM annuity.
• 1:22:49
  Yeah, there was a comic strip by the comic Assassins in DWM in
• 1:22:53
  1990 which just so many jokes I just keep repeating from this
• 1:22:58
  this story they they did have. You ever figured out the logic
• 1:23:02
  of this board? No.
• 1:23:04
  I think it's you just walk across it and hope you don't
• 1:23:06
  die. Yes, pretty much.
• 1:23:08
  You just you skip across. And because the pattern changes
• 1:23:12
  every time, you can just you can either skip across or walk
• 1:23:16
  across, just depending on what you're in the mood for.
• 1:23:18
  It's death to the Daleks, isn't it?
• 1:23:20
  It's it's just yeah. It's a it's a floor of death.
• 1:23:23
  I mean, I've been praising that scene death to the dialects for
• 1:23:26
  ages, despite the people that come on strictly come and start
• 1:23:29
  being absolutely Mad Men. I did pass a exam question
• 1:23:34
  though. We've a line of Tegan's here.
• 1:23:37
  The ratio of the circumference of a circle twist diameter is
• 1:23:41
  represented by the Greek leather pie.
• 1:23:43
  Joe, I did too. I still got a double D in
• 1:23:46
  science, but I did get a pass on that A.
• 1:23:48
  Question. I knew what pie was.
• 1:23:50
  And I passed the bit about momentum from Chris Rich bid
• 1:23:55
  meat. What about thermodynamics?
• 1:23:58
  Did you get that? No, you didn't, because if you
• 1:24:02
  had answered a question. On the patrols across this.
• 1:24:05
  Bid needs version of entropy. You would have failed.
• 1:24:09
  Fair. But I'm not saying that Doctor
• 1:24:12
  Who's never educated me on anything, you know, that'd be
• 1:24:15
  all right. Or I shall.
• 1:24:18
  Destroy you? Oh.
• 1:24:21
  My love. Watch how sort of lacklustrely
• 1:24:24
  the Cybermen falls to the floor. In a minute, one of them sort of
• 1:24:26
  goes oh. Yeah, it's.
• 1:24:28
  I'm only a day player. I've not fallen.
• 1:24:30
  Into the floor. It's the difference between the
• 1:24:31
  studio and the outside filming, isn't it?
• 1:24:34
  Well. It's because they've all got to
• 1:24:36
  die at once, yeah, I can't just have Stuart Fell doing.
• 1:24:39
  Doing all day, I wonder if maybe the Cybermen are a little now.
• 1:24:43
  They've been massacred a few times.
• 1:24:45
  Yeah, if they're a little. Is this one massacre too many?
• 1:24:49
  Yeah, maybe if they don't seem too bright in this, but then it
• 1:24:54
  makes the Marcel look great betrayed.
• 1:25:00
  Why does? He say the line in that sing
• 1:25:02
  song voice. Or I.
• 1:25:04
  Shall. Destroy.
• 1:25:06
  You. Why do you think you've betrayed
• 1:25:10
  us? But I'm going to let you explain
• 1:25:11
  with a gun in your hand. Just lie about the sheep is so
• 1:25:15
  wonderful surrounded by Cybermen corpses.
• 1:25:19
  It might be Amy's best moment, although he does get that great
• 1:25:24
  musical moment where he comes down the stairs.
• 1:25:26
  The steps of evil, sorry, the steps of wrestle on.
• 1:25:33
  Even David Banks dies with more sort of, I don't know, he's just
• 1:25:38
  something about him, isn't there?
• 1:25:40
  Even for you. In one of the one of the many
• 1:25:45
  wars on your miserable planet. Do you know what?
• 1:25:52
  As the older I get, the more I appreciate and see Amy.
• 1:25:55
  I think I was a bit harder than him when I was younger.
• 1:25:59
  But like like I think. He's he's great.
• 1:26:03
  I think he's great in Marko the Ronnie as the Ronnie's bitch,
• 1:26:07
  basically, and I think he's wonderful in the ultimate foe
• 1:26:11
  where it's all getting a bit too complicated and he just turns up
• 1:26:14
  going well. I'm having a wonderful time up
• 1:26:16
  here watching all this. I mean, I don't have many nice
• 1:26:19
  things to see about Logopolis, but one of the ones that I do is
• 1:26:22
  Anthony and his performance, because he is very chilling.
• 1:26:25
  He is very. You know, if you want an
• 1:26:28
  education on that, there's a three hour podcast that just
• 1:26:30
  came out. From Dave Freddie.
• 1:26:32
  Or about Logopolis? Ain't no one got time for that
• 1:26:36
  but. Excuse me, your your re
• 1:26:38
  education for everybody on the dominators went to nearly five
• 1:26:41
  hours. All right.
• 1:26:43
  Well, yeah, I'll give everyone the the edited version.
• 1:26:47
  You know, I was kind like that. Didn't go on for three hours.
• 1:26:49
  Same at heart. 3.14269 Yes, that's it.
• 1:27:00
  Hope you've got your sums wrong. Doc.
• 1:27:03
  Yeah, she's fun here, isn't she? Why didn't they make her fun
• 1:27:07
  more often? Oh, I love this.
• 1:27:10
  A tune like. Sounds nothing like a harp, but
• 1:27:21
  that's fine. Is it a case that because we are
• 1:27:26
  skipping from doctor to companion to monster to this to
• 1:27:29
  that there's actually no time to focus on any one thing to get
• 1:27:35
  bored with it, but you're just. I think there's just so much
• 1:27:38
  coming at you. From Yeah, if you don't like one
• 1:27:40
  doctor, another one will be along in two seconds a.
• 1:27:43
  Lot of buses. But I think the the clever thing
• 1:27:47
  that Terence does is he gives each Doctor a mission.
• 1:27:51
  Really. So you know, the 5th Doctor has
• 1:27:53
  to is, you know, finding out what's going on in Gallifree.
• 1:27:56
  The 3rd Doctor has to get the top door, the 1st Doctor has to
• 1:27:59
  get the middle door, and 2nd Doctor has to get to the
• 1:28:01
  basement door. So everyone's actually got
• 1:28:03
  something to do, You know it. And because it's very simple
• 1:28:08
  thing to do then you can't just flip between and, you know, go
• 1:28:13
  across them with like you say without really getting too
• 1:28:15
  bored. And even at this point where
• 1:28:17
  suddenly they're all in these and hurrah, someone's turned the
• 1:28:20
  lights down, so we've got lovely dark corridors.
• 1:28:22
  Then suddenly, Lishaw, Mike Yates, Jamie Zuri, all these
• 1:28:26
  people start showing up. But the sets are good because
• 1:28:29
  they're all stairs. You can reuse the set.
• 1:28:32
  But the 2nd Doctor is coming up, the 3rd Doctor is coming down.
• 1:28:36
  So you get this sense of it being in different places just
• 1:28:39
  because of how they're they're how they're how they're doing.
• 1:28:43
  I will give the second special edition one huge bit of cued or
• 1:28:47
  so is that they have this weird screaming noise echoing down all
• 1:28:52
  these corridors. That's really unnerving that
• 1:28:54
  isn't here in the original. Oh.
• 1:28:57
  There's the recently. Deceased, yeah, frankly.
• 1:29:02
  Liz Shaw is here. Too.
• 1:29:05
  Hello, Liz. Liz I actually, I just don't
• 1:29:08
  think that looks like Liz Shaw anyway.
• 1:29:12
  Which is weird because it's it is yeah I.
• 1:29:15
  Know. But she didn't really look like
• 1:29:18
  that, is she? That's a very sort of buttoned
• 1:29:20
  up blouse. I think it's because it's it's
• 1:29:23
  it's her own hair for the first time if they've just given her a
• 1:29:26
  week. Maybe she'd come wearing that
• 1:29:28
  fabulous hat. That's it.
• 1:29:29
  Yeah. Well, I mean, that would be the
• 1:29:31
  end of the story. Really.
• 1:29:32
  It was ridiculous. Oh.
• 1:29:34
  Then Fraser would be like. I knew, of course, the real Liz
• 1:29:37
  wasn't wearing a hat. Yeah.
• 1:29:39
  Oh, that should be the lie. She never.
• 1:29:44
  Does like a lie back? Area That magnificent spooky
• 1:29:47
  stop. Him.
• 1:29:49
  Yeah, she does. But she she did that line,
• 1:29:53
  didn't she? And apparently they were all
• 1:29:55
  like, really? Are you going to do it like
• 1:29:58
  that? They were, really.
• 1:29:59
  We said that to her, didn't they?
• 1:30:01
  Yeah. She tells that very funny story
• 1:30:02
  about how she went up to John Nathan Turner and she was like,
• 1:30:05
  oh, what are you doing in this? What's your part when Doctor
• 1:30:08
  Who? Oh, I'm the producer.
• 1:30:10
  Oh. Sorry.
• 1:30:12
  She never came back again. Has Liz dyed her hair red?
• 1:30:18
  Because it looks very red here. Well, does she have red hair in?
• 1:30:24
  Originally, I don't think it was more brown, wasn't it so?
• 1:30:27
  All No, it was red. Not sure.
• 1:30:31
  Full of strange fears and mysterious for.
• 1:30:34
  Both. No, as a matter of fact, I
• 1:30:35
  don't. I love that.
• 1:30:37
  It just debunks it brilliantly. An.
• 1:30:39
  Illusion. Child, Child.
• 1:30:42
  Just ignore it as I do. Love you too.
• 1:30:45
  Do me. There's nothing here to harm us.
• 1:30:49
  And when you get to my age, which is actually the youngest
• 1:30:52
  doctor of them all. Yeah.
• 1:30:57
  It was sad that he died before he even got his check.
• 1:31:01
  For the school I know. So it must have been very soon
• 1:31:05
  after this. Yeah, I he did the Blue Peter,
• 1:31:08
  which was live in in November 83, so oh oh, a scream.
• 1:31:15
  Who could that be? Someone's wrapped Zoe and blah
• 1:31:18
  blah wrap. I've.
• 1:31:19
  Tried that look, you know? But it didn't go down too well.
• 1:31:23
  Jamie. I.
• 1:31:23
  Wasn't wearing. Anything.
• 1:31:24
  Underneath. Should have tried the catsuit.
• 1:31:29
  Oh, that's so good. It's so lovely to see the two of
• 1:31:32
  them. Oh, yes.
• 1:31:33
  JM TS there going. They still got good chemistry.
• 1:31:38
  Might try and get him back again.
• 1:31:40
  Did they try and get Wendy Papri back again as?
• 1:31:42
  Well, I don't know because she was pregnant here, so maybe
• 1:31:45
  she'd have had a young child when they were building.
• 1:31:47
  Is that a A? Girl who turns up in the big
• 1:31:50
  Finish all the. I think so, yeah.
• 1:31:51
  Oh, she's a good actress, She is.
• 1:31:53
  Yeah. In the jeans.
• 1:31:56
  But Wendy Papri looks they look so young still at this point
• 1:32:00
  and. Can I ask you fellas then, Is
• 1:32:03
  this the season 6B Doctor Who's remembers that the Tire Lord
• 1:32:08
  sent them back just before he supposedly regenerated?
• 1:32:12
  Of course. Razor.
• 1:32:14
  But it's it's all a matter of memory, true.
• 1:32:20
  But originally the original cameo was Victoria and Jamie and
• 1:32:25
  Victoria calling him Brigadier when But how do you know he was
• 1:32:29
  promoted? You'd never met him.
• 1:32:32
  That would make that would make perfect sense.
• 1:32:34
  Yeah, sense. Yeah.
• 1:32:36
  And just true since wistful. It's a shame.
• 1:32:40
  Oh, you know, he's so sad that they're not actually there.
• 1:32:45
  Maybe we dodged a bullet though, you know, Debbie walling an axe.
• 1:32:51
  My My favorite. One of my favorite things when I
• 1:32:54
  was younger when I found that out, was imagining every line
• 1:32:57
  that the Brigadier has delivered by Deborah Watling when they
• 1:33:01
  were paired off together. It's so brilliant.
• 1:33:05
  Who was that terrible woman? Oh, typical.
• 1:33:11
  Absolutely typical. I had no idea that Peter
• 1:33:14
  Davidson was so musical. Or.
• 1:33:17
  He's very musical. Was he not actually playing the
• 1:33:19
  harp here? A.
• 1:33:24
  Tune. What was it that booster said
• 1:33:31
  about them? Oh, a musical lock in origin of
• 1:33:35
  time. Oh, he didn't mention a musical
• 1:33:37
  lot. No, it's just a voice print.
• 1:33:40
  Yes. Yeah, written a pattern.
• 1:33:43
  And the key was like, what is it?
• 1:33:44
  Put it, put it the tree in a forest or something.
• 1:33:48
  Yeah, actually that's quite a nice that shot.
• 1:33:51
  I think that's well done it. It felt real and huge at the
• 1:33:55
  time. You get just it just but enough
• 1:33:58
  to get like. Flames and things, haven't they?
• 1:34:00
  In new versions, Yes. It just feels more organic.
• 1:34:04
  What kept me of all the confounded arrogance?
• 1:34:08
  Never mind, never mind. So these are all the scenes that
• 1:34:10
  you can see behind the scenes, Yeah.
• 1:34:13
  And what I want to say is just how appalling John Purwi is.
• 1:34:18
  It's a second anyone says car or there's a boom Mike, he's like,
• 1:34:24
  oh, oh, who's running this show? You know, like honestly, God,
• 1:34:28
  what a fucking winger hurdle stands there.
• 1:34:33
  Like the the, the quieter. Brilliant isn't.
• 1:34:35
  It quiet man and just puts it on when he needs to and trouter.
• 1:34:38
  Trouter's taking the piss. He's just.
• 1:34:40
  Niggling. Everybody.
• 1:34:41
  It's so funny. There's a bit where where he
• 1:34:44
  goes. Well, I thought I gave you
• 1:34:45
  enough room to to see Trouter and he goes, you could never
• 1:34:49
  give me enough room. And I love, I love Sarah and
• 1:34:57
  Tegan, both recognising the Brigadier together and that
• 1:35:00
  little bit of warmth and. You're about to see a master
• 1:35:04
  class in We're behind the main actors, pretending we're acting
• 1:35:09
  from. The two of them.
• 1:35:12
  Oh, I know, I know. Take you through time and space.
• 1:35:15
  We've had so much as a buy or leave.
• 1:35:16
  Leave you out where things get interesting.
• 1:35:21
  Loses to win and he who wins. Shall lose, changes nothing,
• 1:35:27
  Absolutely nothing. This doesn't concern us.
• 1:35:31
  It mustn't. Trout isn't.
• 1:35:37
  He's the only person really not trying to dominate any of these
• 1:35:41
  things is. He and yeah and so you naturally
• 1:35:45
  just. You draw to him, Yeah.
• 1:35:48
  There's a wonderful bit where all the doctors are in a lion
• 1:35:52
  and then Trout was hiding behind her.
• 1:35:54
  Yeah, it's so. Funny, I love it.
• 1:35:56
  Hurt We reading from his cue cards.
• 1:36:04
  Oh, it's just lovely having them all together, isn't it?
• 1:36:07
  And I think Peter Davison is probably right that this should
• 1:36:11
  have happened maybe 20 minutes earlier, so there.
• 1:36:15
  Was. Just more of them all
• 1:36:16
  interacting. But it feels earned that you've
• 1:36:18
  you've got here by all these different means and.
• 1:36:22
  But imagine Day of the Doctor, where Davidson and, sorry,
• 1:36:26
  Davis, Tennant and Smith. Only me?
• 1:36:30
  Yeah, exactly. I think that's a little bit
• 1:36:34
  different because with that, you know, they have a plot, they
• 1:36:40
  have a story together. Whereas I think with this one
• 1:36:42
  it's very much Terence, like I say, having three stories, four
• 1:36:46
  stories that he wants to tie together at the end rather than
• 1:36:49
  one, you know, main story with with all the doctors in it.
• 1:36:53
  So I I like that they don't get to the end because I think if
• 1:36:57
  you get them in 20 minutes, what you're going to do, you're going
• 1:36:58
  to have 20 minutes of them arguing.
• 1:37:00
  I mean, it doesn't say good story after all.
• 1:37:02
  Yeah, but I would have 20. Minutes.
• 1:37:04
  Also, it means that they get equal heroic moments all the way
• 1:37:09
  through. Yes.
• 1:37:11
  And they get their, their, their moments.
• 1:37:14
  So it yeah, it sort of works from that point of view I think
• 1:37:17
  I. Haven't quite managed to avoid
• 1:37:19
  sort of the game show flaw there in the Tomb of Raton.
• 1:37:24
  I love his reading though. When he goes, I will help
• 1:37:27
  myself. To.
• 1:37:29
  Immortality. Well, live forever.
• 1:37:33
  Never die. Out of the question, you're
• 1:37:36
  hardly a sort of book handed, but the.
• 1:37:39
  Brick gets his heroic moment and I do like in the 40th version,
• 1:37:43
  they've got the really, really over the top punch sound effect
• 1:37:46
  as they knock him out. Nice to see you again.
• 1:37:50
  Oh, here's another look. Another in right in front of
• 1:37:53
  you, man. Yeah.
• 1:37:55
  Tune like one that's been under my nose the very time, perhaps.
• 1:38:02
  Here we go. Now I have to say, I think this
• 1:38:05
  might be the first, but certainly not the last use of
• 1:38:09
  milk crates in the walls in the Pete Davidson era.
• 1:38:14
  I think it looks great. I I think it's lit so
• 1:38:18
  beautifully with that green behind there.
• 1:38:20
  They're sort of suggesting that there's all sorts of circuitry
• 1:38:23
  and and bits and pieces behind the set.
• 1:38:27
  Is that just set? Now?
• 1:38:28
  Where is it? It's still around who has it
• 1:38:32
  because it was in JN TS collection.
• 1:38:33
  So someone has still got it because every so often pictures
• 1:38:36
  of it turn up. Imagine what that would be worth
• 1:38:40
  now. Absolutely.
• 1:38:45
  So in terms of being a Doctor Who fan, this is a big surprise,
• 1:38:50
  isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:52
  Oh, I thought. I thought it was the master from
• 1:38:55
  the start. I was convinced it was the
• 1:38:56
  master and my mum was just like, don't be silly, of course it was
• 1:38:59
  the master. It's never the Yeah.
• 1:39:02
  And then, Eric? 'S Yeah.
• 1:39:03
  And. It's it's to his credits, he
• 1:39:05
  goes. Yeah, no, everyone's going to
• 1:39:07
  think that. Let's make it less obvious.
• 1:39:08
  And then Terrance chose Brusa. No, The Doctor's Doctor's old
• 1:39:14
  friend and mentor. But we have only just seen in In
• 1:39:19
  Ark of Infinity, where there's no hint of a relationship
• 1:39:22
  between them ever before. You know, he's a character we've
• 1:39:25
  seen over what, five or six years, four different actors, 4
• 1:39:30
  appearances. I think because he's, he's not
• 1:39:34
  sort of stressed like the Masteries or the Ronnie later or
• 1:39:36
  something like that. I don't.
• 1:39:38
  You sort of forget how many times he turns up.
• 1:39:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:39:44
  Unfortunately, in the BBC books, Terrance wants to redeem Barusa.
• 1:39:50
  Oh, he does, doesn't he? Yes, he does that in the 8
• 1:39:52
  doctors, yeah. Allows him to redeem himself.
• 1:39:55
  Yeah, Let it go, Terrance. He's a bit like the the Time
• 1:40:00
  Lord version of Davos, I suppose, Keep, you know, a
• 1:40:03
  character that just pops up. Yeah, regularly.
• 1:40:08
  But you know, there's a there's a casual viewer you might not be
• 1:40:11
  intimately aware of, but you will be familiar with.
• 1:40:14
  Yeah, actually that's a really good comparison because Davros
• 1:40:16
  had Destiny, Resurrection, Revelation, Remembrance.
• 1:40:21
  Barusa had Deadly Assassin, Invasion of Time, Arkham,
• 1:40:24
  Infinity 5 Doctors. But really, everybody knows
• 1:40:27
  about Davros. I don't think anybody really
• 1:40:30
  knew about Barusa. But I think the children, a lot
• 1:40:34
  of the children would have read the Target books, you know, and
• 1:40:38
  you'd have known about the character a bit more.
• 1:40:40
  People always forget, oh, I say, Oh well, people wouldn't know
• 1:40:43
  who this is. They wouldn't know who Omiger
• 1:40:44
  is. But everyone read those books,
• 1:40:47
  you know, and there is more of an awareness than we give
• 1:40:50
  people. Yeah.
• 1:40:52
  Sort of credit for. But ultimately, because of
• 1:40:55
  Terence's skillful right and it doesn't matter if you know who
• 1:40:57
  Boosa is or not, no if you do. If.
• 1:41:01
  You do know who Boosa is? You've got a bit extra depth and
• 1:41:06
  it's a bit more of an Easter egg for you.
• 1:41:07
  But if you don't know who Bruce is, like I did when I first
• 1:41:10
  watched his, I didn't know who Bruce I was.
• 1:41:12
  You know, he is just the president.
• 1:41:13
  Who? But the Doctor knows him.
• 1:41:15
  Yeah, the doctor knows him. He's the president.
• 1:41:17
  So obviously he's the, you know, the guy in charge who turns
• 1:41:21
  back. You know, it's it's, it's kind
• 1:41:23
  of like the, you know, the equivalent of seeing like Boris
• 1:41:25
  Johnson Turner in order to be a complete Rangan.
• 1:41:30
  I think about. What chances are I know.
• 1:41:33
  But he's so funny, he can't be bad.
• 1:41:35
  Exactly. You.
• 1:41:37
  Know I can't even notice that celebrity's looking a bit limp
• 1:41:40
  on his lapel right now. Is he get about to get a new one
• 1:41:43
  yet? Yeah, our next story, he gets
• 1:41:46
  well, he ditches this version of the costume, doesn't he?
• 1:41:49
  So. That's so JNT.
• 1:41:51
  That's what JNT thinks. Eccentric means sticking celery
• 1:41:55
  on your clothes. Wearing a decorative vegetable.
• 1:41:58
  Yeah, I mean, it's kind of cute now.
• 1:42:03
  But and so just a little. Misunderstanding of the word
• 1:42:06
  eccentric. But I mean, the whole story is
• 1:42:10
  is summed up in that that one line and almost the whole of
• 1:42:13
  Doctor Who, like I gave you companions to help, an old enemy
• 1:42:17
  to fight, and it's a game within a game.
• 1:42:21
  And perfect. It's Terence almost gaslighting
• 1:42:24
  himself. And I look that scene there
• 1:42:28
  where Bruce makes the Doctor. Neil, I think is a really good
• 1:42:31
  example of what Peter Davison is doing because he just gives him
• 1:42:34
  a, puts his hands in his pockets and gives him a lot.
• 1:42:36
  That's like. Behave, bitch.
• 1:42:39
  And what happened this? I'll see that.
• 1:42:40
  He gets down on his knees. He gets down on his knees and
• 1:42:44
  he's got that look of oh, shit, bitch made us do it.
• 1:42:48
  Yeah. You can't imagine Tom Baker
• 1:42:50
  doing that. You can't imagine Tom Baker
• 1:42:53
  going into your. No, I'm not going to Neil.
• 1:42:56
  I don't like a kneel. No, no, none of the other
• 1:42:59
  doctors are going to are going to do that.
• 1:43:01
  But Davison Davison would pause it off really well.
• 1:43:05
  We. Saw it when it happened to
• 1:43:07
  Pearl. We didn't we in in Planet of the
• 1:43:09
  Spiders and that was that was ripping his life apart.
• 1:43:13
  That was the end. Yep.
• 1:43:14
  Look at Davidson on that screen. Clearly, he's been hypnotized.
• 1:43:21
  Touch. Nothing.
• 1:43:22
  Indeed, who does he? Think he is.
• 1:43:24
  He gets his neck rub. Now something's wrong.
• 1:43:28
  I think he really sells the moment in the climax as well,
• 1:43:31
  where they're all trying to bring him back over to their
• 1:43:34
  side and that sort of confusion and pain on his face.
• 1:43:37
  But it's the same actor that try to bring some dignity to
• 1:43:41
  Dimensions in time at the end, when he was doing that sort of,
• 1:43:44
  you know, Davidson could bring some gravitas to anything.
• 1:43:51
  Well, yeah, I mean, and by Dimension of Time, Davidson
• 1:43:54
  could even handle the end of end of episode cliffhanger acting.
• 1:44:00
  The Ronnie. Yeah, he comes in and just yeah,
• 1:44:04
  gives the most brilliant just for two minutes, gives the most
• 1:44:07
  brilliant performance of the whole thing and taking it
• 1:44:09
  completely seriously. I mean, he's blown off the stage
• 1:44:13
  by Pamston Clement at one point. Yeah.
• 1:44:15
  Who? Would, but who wouldn't be?
• 1:44:18
  Oh, look at the three of them together.
• 1:44:20
  Yeah. Honestly.
• 1:44:23
  Because that's Travis braces look.
• 1:44:25
  Yeah, that's a great shot. Come on, Boosa.
• 1:44:29
  In the Doctor. In the 5th Doctor.
• 1:44:30
  Yes. Bookend.
• 1:44:31
  Yeah, I just think it's a bit of a shame that it, after the sort
• 1:44:38
  of dialogue, it's so flatly directed and you need that sort
• 1:44:42
  of contact moment where it's flashing madly between them all
• 1:44:46
  and they're sort of trying to connect with him and.
• 1:44:50
  See, I think that works because, like Fraser said, you've got the
• 1:44:53
  three of them there and then you've got the two of them
• 1:44:56
  either side and he's holding the stick between them.
• 1:44:58
  It's a very literal interpretation.
• 1:45:00
  Of what's happening, you you kind of get what you have to
• 1:45:04
  say. It's just not as phonetically
• 1:45:06
  edited. Yeah, I think, yeah.
• 1:45:08
  Moffett just isn't that simple. Direction.
• 1:45:10
  No, no, no, no. It's you don't but it.
• 1:45:12
  Relies on Davidson. I do quite like Davidson,
• 1:45:14
  walking over and looking at each of them and.
• 1:45:17
  I was talking more about, you know, the bit earlier where you
• 1:45:20
  had the doctors in this and then you had Sarah and Tegan beyond
• 1:45:23
  doing. Their Yeah.
• 1:45:23
  Oh yeah. Oh, So what have you been up to
• 1:45:25
  acting? But also, I do love the Perusa
• 1:45:30
  coming in and just saying shut up you lot, You're not in the
• 1:45:34
  rest of this. This is the hand of doctors now.
• 1:45:36
  You are the notorious Renegades. We shall see who is believed
• 1:45:41
  this. Is the game.
• 1:45:42
  Of. Rattle.
• 1:45:44
  Come on, it's your favorite voice phraser.
• 1:45:46
  Do it. Why have you come?
• 1:45:56
  Here, there he is. The float you multi coloured.
• 1:46:01
  Head I mean, that's quite an impressive hat.
• 1:46:03
  He's. Going That's a good hat.
• 1:46:05
  He's sort of like the Wizard of Oz, isn't he?
• 1:46:07
  Very much, yeah. Basically, yeah.
• 1:46:10
  I think that Tash slash mutton chops combo is is wherever it's
• 1:46:16
  at. I would have liked just one bit
• 1:46:18
  of each of the doctors going We're off the C Unit, Wizard,
• 1:46:23
  Wonderful Wizard of Oz. On his brows as well, he's got
• 1:46:27
  like proper collector brows. Is this a panto?
• 1:46:30
  Don't listen to them, Lord Russell on President Barusa
• 1:46:33
  speaks the truth. Do you think is this a panto?
• 1:46:37
  Because it's doing a very panto Y type thing here.
• 1:46:40
  It's still going. Down at the end isn't
• 1:46:42
  everyone's. Together, everybody's together,
• 1:46:44
  they've all got a line. Does it?
• 1:46:47
  Matter. No it isn't.
• 1:46:48
  How are you? How are you going to end?
• 1:46:50
  I love our panto. So this is perfect for me.
• 1:46:53
  Oh, no it isn't. Oh.
• 1:46:56
  Yes, it is. It is.
• 1:46:58
  But again, just at the last minute, those faces coming to
• 1:47:03
  life at the bottom of the two terrifying.
• 1:47:08
  And I'm, I'm, I have to say, oh, I remember being very tired by
• 1:47:12
  this point because I was about to stay out well, after my
• 1:47:15
  bedtime because it didn't start till 7:20.
• 1:47:17
  So it was on till 9:00 and I was was tired here.
• 1:47:21
  But that that was really oh, Oh no that's a.
• 1:47:25
  And there hasn't been much that's scary in this story.
• 1:47:28
  But that was and the way. The.
• 1:47:32
  Great bit where Peter Morpha actually cuts between Barusa
• 1:47:36
  turning round and then he's there.
• 1:47:39
  Really great. Your price is.
• 1:47:44
  Prepared. Lord.
• 1:47:45
  But it was and. Then his face just behind there.
• 1:47:49
  Really, really good. Yeah, that's properly creepy.
• 1:47:54
  And then look the way it turns into the.
• 1:47:56
  The statue of Stone. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:47:59
  You don't ever. See that Canadian money, can't
• 1:48:01
  you? Yeah, or every so often.
• 1:48:03
  There's just moments that work so well that simple effects, but
• 1:48:08
  they work brilliantly. Ms. Trowson hiding behind
• 1:48:12
  Kirkweed. One last bit of Tom.
• 1:48:19
  Do. You want immortality too?
• 1:48:22
  No, thank you. Not in this fucking world we
• 1:48:24
  live in. Jesus Christ.
• 1:48:27
  I'll be quite happy to go with our minimal 60s.
• 1:48:29
  Thank you. Oh, hang on.
• 1:48:32
  That's not too far away now. Oh, 70s.
• 1:48:35
  In fact, you even get the great panto moment.
• 1:48:37
  You could say you know when the masters tiptoeing up, he's
• 1:48:39
  behind you. It's time for your other self to
• 1:48:48
  depart. You have chosen wisely, Dr.
• 1:48:53
  Farewell. What other work has that man
• 1:48:58
  done? I don't know who.
• 1:49:00
  Cares. This is the peak of his career.
• 1:49:04
  Oh. Handel's wonderful.
• 1:49:06
  Yeah, exactly. Sorry, I felt I suddenly
• 1:49:09
  realised what the old proverb meant.
• 1:49:11
  And it I love the way they always defer to the first
• 1:49:14
  Doctor, even though he's the least experienced and the
• 1:49:17
  youngest. But because he's the original,
• 1:49:20
  that's what they do. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:24
  It's a wonderful paradox. Isn't it?
• 1:49:27
  Not a blessing. I love watch Davidson here.
• 1:49:31
  He moulds his performance to mirror every actor that he talks
• 1:49:36
  to. So when he talks to Trout and he
• 1:49:38
  goes goodbye and it's all very and then when he says goodbye to
• 1:49:42
  Purway, it's very serious. I'm sort of direct.
• 1:49:45
  Hand again, he does the eye roll up.
• 1:49:48
  I'm definitely not the man I was, thank goodness.
• 1:49:59
  Oh, well, Susan's off. She didn't get much to do, but
• 1:50:02
  at least she turned up. You know, it's also one of those
• 1:50:05
  kids party. You know, where a few of the
• 1:50:06
  kids just get ignored. Fancy pants.
• 1:50:10
  Scarecrow. Oh, bring it along.
• 1:50:14
  Would you bring it here? Splendid fellows, all of you,
• 1:50:18
  All of them. Something I've always wanted to
• 1:50:20
  ask the two of you going home together.
• 1:50:25
  Watch. Everyone.
• 1:50:29
  Literally. Look at them all.
• 1:50:30
  Behind all waiting for their moment.
• 1:50:33
  This is where now you would edit it a lot more.
• 1:50:35
  Yeah, I believe. Well, I only have the one life
• 1:50:38
  and I think I've had too much already.
• 1:50:41
  Actually, it's a lovely line though, isn't it?
• 1:50:42
  He goes. Thank you, Sarah Jane.
• 1:50:43
  It was nice meeting you too. What I'll explain later.
• 1:50:54
  And of course, the very last scene, the dialogue which I've
• 1:50:57
  quoted more than any other, maybe you're deliberately going
• 1:51:01
  on the run from your own people. In a rackety old TARDIS.
• 1:51:07
  Phrases come and say the last line.
• 1:51:10
  Why not? After all, that's how it all
• 1:51:12
  began. I thought that was the two
• 1:51:15
  doctors for us. It was.
• 1:51:19
  She is like Chance of Flavia in a presidential regalia.
• 1:51:25
  Yet again, it's just my duty and my joint.
• 1:51:29
  In fact, I think Davidson is so fun in a minute where he's like
• 1:51:33
  you, was a sis, charged Lafavia back to her duties.
• 1:51:36
  Beautifully breathless. Yeah.
• 1:51:38
  Like, Oh my God, we've got to get that up here quick.
• 1:51:41
  I think he would have. Responded President.
• 1:51:44
  I may not. Really.
• 1:51:44
  Well, if his doctor had had more comedy written for him.
• 1:51:48
  Yeah, because he's brilliant comedy actor.
• 1:51:51
  But they made him so serious last time.
• 1:51:53
  It's yeah, it's still, as we've said before, that reaction
• 1:51:56
  against Williams, who the Doctor Who is serious and isn't, isn't
• 1:52:01
  funny. But when they do give him
• 1:52:04
  comedy, they they could give him that sort of dry comedy, the.
• 1:52:07
  Yeah, and he's really, really good at that.
• 1:52:09
  And they they work that out in Season 21.
• 1:52:13
  Don't that again, crazy. And the Awakening.
• 1:52:15
  Yeah, the awakening. Toast of Little Hodcom.
• 1:52:18
  I'm still thinking it's funny as Lion.
• 1:52:20
  Is like I see even this one. The sort of very fetching lane
• 1:52:23
  is. When he goes some jolly good,
• 1:52:26
  now you can rip them down again. It's so funny in that story.
• 1:52:32
  You want to score Chancellor Plavia back to her?
• 1:52:34
  Duties the. Family of my daughters.
• 1:52:38
  And then it is great that that Colin actually did remember in
• 1:52:43
  Mysterious Planet. Yes, it was neither.
• 1:52:45
  President of Gallivray at one point.
• 1:52:49
  It's a very funny moment as well.
• 1:52:51
  So you were deposed, He goes. Oh, is that legal?
• 1:52:55
  Perfectly. Oh, I mean, Colin's a brilliant
• 1:52:58
  comic. Actor as well, you know.
• 1:53:00
  Sometimes, Tegan, you take my breath away.
• 1:53:03
  What? The titles be very angry.
• 1:53:09
  It is a beautiful last line. It's a really fun chemistry.
• 1:53:12
  That you I don't. Think you ever see it again?
• 1:53:16
  After all, and then one last surprise, it's the original
• 1:53:21
  theme. Yes.
• 1:53:24
  So I do have one question. Well, it's only just been
• 1:53:27
  introduced. Where was Chameleon?
• 1:53:30
  Well, in. The cupboard.
• 1:53:35
  It's. True.
• 1:53:37
  And so so. It was so busy cat locking all
• 1:53:40
  the books. Sorry, go on, Susan.
• 1:53:46
  It baffles. Me to this stage.
• 1:53:47
  They didn't have him just as a different character out for each
• 1:53:50
  week. Well, there we go.
• 1:53:53
  And then it turns into the Peter Howell theme.
• 1:53:56
  Yes. Oh, it was so exciting.
• 1:53:59
  Oh. No Warriors and the deep started
• 1:54:01
  on the iPlayer. Hang on, I.
• 1:54:02
  Better turn it off quick. Just as we were all having fun.
• 1:54:08
  The light. The light.
• 1:54:10
  Well look boys, we've quoted and laughed and triviaed and
• 1:54:15
  fangasms. Now it's our time to think up
• 1:54:19
  our fabulous things. 20. I'm not saying a number because
• 1:54:23
  Fraser always takes it more than the number.
• 1:54:26
  I say let's start with let's go Fraser outside me.
• 1:54:32
  OK. So my first thing that I'm going
• 1:54:35
  to pick then is the first Doctor of the Five Doctors because,
• 1:54:41
  yeah, big shout out to Richard Hendel.
• 1:54:43
  Yeah, try that again. Richard Hendel, who has got a
• 1:54:46
  very difficult job of coming in and replacing William Hartnell,
• 1:54:50
  who was, you know, so much the 1st Doctor.
• 1:54:55
  But he comes in, he gives it, he's go.
• 1:54:56
  He's not. He's trying to hit those marks.
• 1:54:59
  He's trying to, you know, do an imitation, but he's not trying
• 1:55:02
  to sort of slavishly replicate what Hartnell's done before.
• 1:55:06
  He's given his own sort of stance on the 1st Doctor and I
• 1:55:11
  think he does really well in those circumstances.
• 1:55:13
  It's it's a very enjoyable performance.
• 1:55:16
  There's some, you know, bits that he nails more than others,
• 1:55:22
  but if nothing else, he's given us a meme of eating pineapple.
• 1:55:25
  So this thing is the first Doctor.
• 1:55:29
  Mine is Peter Howe, because I don't think this story would
• 1:55:33
  work as well if anyone else had scored it.
• 1:55:36
  He gets it absolutely spot on. The decision, as I said, the
• 1:55:39
  decision he makes to sample the original theme for those early,
• 1:55:43
  early and in fact all the way through whenever there's
• 1:55:46
  something to do with the time scoop or whatever is is
• 1:55:49
  beautiful. And he, yeah, he's giving it his
• 1:55:52
  all. And then there was a phrase,
• 1:55:53
  once I've read in a review that says Peterhouse, rough and ready
• 1:55:57
  score is absolutely spot on. He goes with the adventure, he
• 1:56:01
  goes with the excitement. He knows which scenes to
• 1:56:04
  highlight. He knows which scenes to take,
• 1:56:06
  take down and make mysterious. And I think it is like you said,
• 1:56:10
  Joe, I think if if it's not the best score in the whole of
• 1:56:15
  classic Doctor Who, it's very, very close.
• 1:56:17
  It is just wonderful. There are so many bits that I
• 1:56:20
  found myself humming still to this day.
• 1:56:23
  I mean, I think we can all, we all know most Doctor Who scores
• 1:56:27
  if we heard them. This is so distinctive.
• 1:56:30
  Yeah, anybody could hear a a piece of this?
• 1:56:33
  No one. It's the whole of Wrestle on
• 1:56:35
  that he comes up with as well. It's so good.
• 1:56:39
  It's so evocative. My first thing is going to be
• 1:56:44
  Anthony Angley, who I think is just having such a laugh in this
• 1:56:48
  story. After, frankly, what the King's
• 1:56:52
  demons he did and time flight before that.
• 1:56:55
  Hardly the two best showings for the master ever.
• 1:56:58
  Terrorist comes in, gives him fun things to do.
• 1:57:01
  He has great fun with every single doctor.
• 1:57:03
  At some point in this, Brigadier punches him out, He gets a big
• 1:57:06
  camp line, immortality. I think he has the ability to
• 1:57:12
  lift the show when given the opportunity.
• 1:57:15
  I don't think he was given the opportunity as much as he should
• 1:57:18
  have done and he's this might be I do love his turn in survival,
• 1:57:25
  but there's a lot of other stuff to love there.
• 1:57:27
  Whereas I just think his turn out.
• 1:57:28
  I think this might be his best turn in the in.
• 1:57:30
  The He's having fun, He's having the best.
• 1:57:32
  And Anthony Amy is having fun. And the Master is having the
• 1:57:36
  time of his life through all of this, because for once, he's got
• 1:57:40
  one up on the Doctor. And just the the very idea of
• 1:57:44
  him being sent to rescue the Doctor and how amused he is by
• 1:57:47
  that is. It's brilliant writing.
• 1:57:51
  There's no evil scheme or anything.
• 1:57:53
  There's nothing done he's got to do.
• 1:57:54
  It's just go in there and save a plot purpose.
• 1:57:57
  But I'll tell you who else is having fun.
• 1:58:02
  Who else is having fun? Fraser the 2nd.
• 1:58:04
  Doctor. Really.
• 1:58:06
  Which is my second thing that I'm going to pick is the 2nd
• 1:58:10
  Doctor. You know we're not going to
• 1:58:12
  choose any of the fucking doctors now because we know.
• 1:58:14
  What you're doing? So obviously we've talked about,
• 1:58:20
  you know, the darkness coming at the end and trying to upstage
• 1:58:22
  each other. And the only one that doesn't is
• 1:58:25
  doing that not because he wants to.
• 1:58:28
  Well, because he's like trying to.
• 1:58:30
  It's it's Patrick Trout. Me just coming in just he has
• 1:58:32
  been a bit subversive and just going well OK you guys are
• 1:58:35
  trying to be you know the big shows you've got you know Billy
• 1:58:38
  Big Bollocks over there with his Cape.
• 1:58:39
  But I'm just going to come in and mess things up.
• 1:58:42
  But he's having great fun. You know he scenes with Nick
• 1:58:44
  Courtney he's the Brigadier. There's such a fantastic
• 1:58:47
  chemistry between those two. He just makes everything you
• 1:58:50
  know sing and sparkle and you know those little scenes with
• 1:58:54
  with resigns and Wendy Padre again just brilliant.
• 1:58:57
  So I really love Patrick Troutman this.
• 1:58:59
  So my second choice is the second inductor.
• 1:59:02
  In those behind the sofas, everybody has got something
• 1:59:05
  slightly Cassie to say about Pertwee, about Tom Baker's
• 1:59:09
  appearance in Sharda. Like even there's even some sort
• 1:59:14
  of sort of mildly negative things that nobody has a bad
• 1:59:18
  word. In fact, everyone sort of lights
• 1:59:20
  up whenever Trout's on the screen.
• 1:59:22
  So yeah, I just think he just appeals to everyone.
• 1:59:26
  Definitely, definitely. OK.
• 1:59:28
  So my second thing will be Terrance Dicks.
• 1:59:33
  I thought it was going. To be my third thing.
• 1:59:35
  Oh no, it was not you. Liar.
• 1:59:39
  Because he's not the first choice, but he should have been.
• 1:59:45
  He is given this impossible brief when he's woken up in the
• 1:59:51
  middle of the night in Atlanta or wherever.
• 1:59:54
  Eric who? Exactly.
• 1:59:58
  You know and and he just goes for it.
• 2:00:02
  And he said, right. OK, this is problem solving and
• 2:00:06
  if there's one thing Turn sticks is good at, it's a problem
• 2:00:08
  solving script. So got impossible thing, got all
• 2:00:12
  these things you've got to to to put into your story.
• 2:00:18
  OK, right, fine. Off we go.
• 2:00:21
  And like we've sort of alluded to all the way through or right
• 2:00:26
  up almost to the day of production.
• 2:00:29
  Things are changing all the time depending on who's available,
• 2:00:31
  who's not. Can you just write a list?
• 2:00:34
  You're fine. Can you?
• 2:00:35
  Sorry, Debbie's not available. But Ada's is.
• 2:00:38
  Right. Fine.
• 2:00:39
  OK yeah. Debbie's not available for for
• 2:00:42
  location filming, so we can't have her.
• 2:00:44
  So got Nick. Courtney.
• 2:00:46
  We'll pair you. Yeah, no problem.
• 2:00:48
  And it just, I mean, considering all the pairings for all the
• 2:00:53
  doctors apart from Handel and Susan changed from date all the
• 2:01:00
  way from conception to the end, it's amazing that it comes up
• 2:01:05
  with anything that is actually vaguely coherent.
• 2:01:08
  And it's amazing that he comes up with something that is so
• 2:01:11
  bloody quotable and so bloody lovely and such a celebration of
• 2:01:17
  Doctor Who. I there'll be comments down the
• 2:01:20
  years. Everyone's slightly out of
• 2:01:21
  character. I don't think it's true.
• 2:01:23
  All the actors are responding to what they're given and they just
• 2:01:27
  do it beautifully. And I I think he's just fans
• 2:01:33
  know how we treasure him because he's he's brilliant.
• 2:01:36
  But I just why? Why wasn't he writing the show
• 2:01:41
  every year? Why?
• 2:01:44
  We might have had a few less books, I remember.
• 2:01:47
  Yeah. Oh, true.
• 2:01:47
  Books on that point. But he's just brilliant and
• 2:01:52
  yeah, and this is a a masterpiece, yeah, I think.
• 2:01:57
  Totally. Also I got.
• 2:02:00
  When I did my, you know, top sixty countdown, you know $5
• 2:02:04
  came 24th in that. And you know the the focus of
• 2:02:09
  that piece of it was very much about tearing sticks and you
• 2:02:12
  know how much of A hockey is. But why?
• 2:02:15
  That's not really a bad thing because you're not someone who
• 2:02:18
  can come in and do this and it's it's very shopping listy story.
• 2:02:22
  It's you know, it's like it's like going out for your shop and
• 2:02:24
  like you said, you write your shopping list and you go out
• 2:02:27
  shopping. But it turns out you can't go to
• 2:02:28
  Asda. You've got to go to Waitrose and
• 2:02:30
  your shopping list changes in your pocket three times whilst
• 2:02:33
  you're actually going around the shop itself.
• 2:02:36
  You know and having the the ability to not only deal with
• 2:02:41
  that but, you know produce something of such high quality
• 2:02:45
  is is the real mark of of the genius of town sticks.
• 2:02:48
  I mean don't forget you know Bob Holmes was initially on signed
• 2:02:53
  up to do this and he quit. He couldn't do it, you know, for
• 2:02:55
  all we. I think it was savvy move on his
• 2:02:59
  part. Say no.
• 2:03:00
  I think it shows fundamentally how J&T stroke Eric Saywood
• 2:03:07
  didn't really understand how to give out these assignments
• 2:03:11
  because a shopping list of ingredients is something that
• 2:03:15
  Robert Holmes has never done. Before No, that's not him you
• 2:03:19
  let him loose go on to. Do in the two doctors and well
• 2:03:22
  we've covered that and he's. Yeah, he's not interested in the
• 2:03:25
  continuity of Doctor Who, but Terence, because of all the
• 2:03:28
  books he's written and everything else knows this stuff
• 2:03:32
  just to the right level, so that he can make sure everyone is
• 2:03:36
  paired with the right people and will be in character.
• 2:03:40
  And he knows sort of the fundaments of of who who all
• 2:03:44
  these Doctors are. Yeah.
• 2:03:47
  Absolutely. Who's next?
• 2:03:51
  You. Me.
• 2:03:53
  Oh, you? Unbelievably.
• 2:03:55
  I'm going to say Peter Morfett, who I lambast frequently on this
• 2:04:00
  podcast, but I do think this is one of his best shows.
• 2:04:03
  He's he's awkward on Califre and a bit in the climax of the
• 2:04:09
  story. But when he's on location and
• 2:04:12
  what I said about how he creates A definite location in the tomb
• 2:04:19
  of Rascal on getting to it. So there's sort of the geography
• 2:04:23
  of getting to it and then the exterior and the interior.
• 2:04:27
  I think it's really, really well done and an unskilled director
• 2:04:32
  couldn't have done that as well as he does.
• 2:04:35
  So he's put a lot of thought into how this sort of looks and
• 2:04:39
  and the journey of getting there.
• 2:04:41
  And I just think his his locations are spectacularly
• 2:04:45
  chosen. It looks like the most miserable
• 2:04:47
  weather you're ever. Going to see in a.
• 2:04:49
  Story. That's Wales for you it.
• 2:04:52
  Works beautifully with the story they're telling, which is
• 2:04:54
  supposed to be the most terrifyingly awful place you
• 2:04:58
  know, on Gallifrey. So, yeah, Peter Moffett is.
• 2:05:01
  My But also, I think he's a good choice because he knows the
• 2:05:07
  stories of him sort of managing the rehearsals and the studio
• 2:05:12
  sessions when you've got all these people who just want to
• 2:05:14
  catch up. And he gives the actors enough
• 2:05:17
  time to do that, but knows they've got to be ready to do do
• 2:05:21
  the work as well. That's handled really nicely and
• 2:05:24
  you need someone who's skilled there to deal with the actors.
• 2:05:28
  Elizabeth Sladen describes him as convivial.
• 2:05:32
  Maitre-d'. Yes, that's what she says.
• 2:05:35
  And that if. You wouldn't mind coming from
• 2:05:37
  over now and having? Very, you know.
• 2:05:39
  And he knows he's got all these bloody egos in the room and he's
• 2:05:42
  just got to try and smooth it all out.
• 2:05:45
  Yeah, I I think being a people person or a people pleaser for
• 2:05:51
  this occasion, it is right because these people have got
• 2:05:54
  enough personality, they're going to bring it all to the
• 2:05:56
  screen. I'm wondering if it's on other
• 2:05:59
  occasions where he's got a lot of sort of muted actors and he's
• 2:06:02
  very convivial, that things are maybe a little flatter, but
• 2:06:07
  you're not going to go wrong with Purr We Trout and In in one
• 2:06:11
  room together. No, absolutely.
• 2:06:15
  Speaking of Pertwee, my third thing that I'm going to pick is
• 2:06:21
  the third Doctor, John Pertwee, who, you know, by this point
• 2:06:25
  he's been out the show 10 years, 10-9 years, nine years.
• 2:06:32
  But you don't, you wouldn't say that.
• 2:06:34
  He just comes in and hits the ground.
• 2:06:36
  Absolutely. When it's like he's never been
• 2:06:37
  away he's he's back in with with Liz Sladen and as he left you
• 2:06:42
  know there's an argument. You know, you know does this
• 2:06:45
  show me miss Joe Grant. Does this episode miss Joe
• 2:06:48
  Grant? Because you know, she's the one
• 2:06:50
  big name that perhaps you know doesn't pop up.
• 2:06:53
  But you know, the the way that you know Pertwin Slade and work
• 2:06:58
  together means you don't really miss Joe, you know,
• 2:07:02
  unfortunately, unfortunately. But yeah, just all his bits, you
• 2:07:06
  know, Like we say, he is very much trying to make himself the
• 2:07:09
  star of this show, you know? He's.
• 2:07:12
  Totally undercut by trouting, but you know that's that's what
• 2:07:15
  you want, that's that's his doctor and that's what you want.
• 2:07:19
  You wouldn't want anything less from him and he comes in and
• 2:07:22
  delivers 100% of what you want from the 3rd doctor in in a
• 2:07:27
  really good showing for him. Hurley's savvy enough that he
• 2:07:31
  realises what Trout's doing and he brings that to conventions.
• 2:07:35
  He's like, he comes on, I am the Doctor, the wings of the mother
• 2:07:39
  and all this, and then Trout's there with a war pistol, you
• 2:07:42
  know, and the fans lap it up and suddenly you've gone from 1000
• 2:07:46
  people go to conventions to 10,000 people and he's cashing
• 2:07:50
  in all the checks going love. Loveless he's.
• 2:07:53
  A savvy businessman, Hurley, he knows what people want.
• 2:07:57
  It's it's truly like him going, let's see what's going on on my
• 2:08:01
  show. What's been happening here.
• 2:08:03
  OK, I'm back Now, who are these people?
• 2:08:06
  All right. OK.
• 2:08:08
  And Terence writes in Exactly right, all the way through.
• 2:08:12
  Yeah. And he gets his moments of
• 2:08:14
  heroism. The way he talks about the Time
• 2:08:18
  Lords is he doesn't refer to them as a type.
• 2:08:21
  He always refers to it as them. And that's absolutely spot on
• 2:08:25
  all the way through this. So yeah, it's it's good.
• 2:08:28
  So my next one, OK, where does it?
• 2:08:34
  There's so much to love. It's so and it sometimes it's
• 2:08:37
  just individual moments that just make you smile all the way
• 2:08:41
  through. You know, there are so many
• 2:08:43
  bits. But that first scene on
• 2:08:46
  Gallifrey is just a master class of everything.
• 2:08:52
  It's people not understanding the script.
• 2:08:55
  It's Anthony Aynley coming in and stealing the show from
• 2:09:00
  underneath them. It's a scene where suddenly
• 2:09:04
  after after sort of 10 minutes of Doctor after Doctor after
• 2:09:09
  Doctor, you've suddenly got this talky scene that's and it slows
• 2:09:14
  the pace right down, but it's really vital.
• 2:09:17
  But it's just so funny because they're all all completely
• 2:09:22
  befuddled. And then Anthony Ailey steals it
• 2:09:25
  from underneath them. And just him coming in sitting
• 2:09:29
  down and saying I may be seated makes me owl with laughter.
• 2:09:34
  So much so that the person that was sitting two seats down from
• 2:09:39
  us at the BFI got more and more annoyed that every time Anthony
• 2:09:43
  Amy was on screen and I giggled at his lines, got more and more
• 2:09:47
  angry and tense. Because I loud.
• 2:09:50
  Taking it seriously. So I did get louder and louder.
• 2:09:53
  But yeah, I from then on you know what Amy's going to do.
• 2:09:57
  And and these actors, you don't really care that they're here.
• 2:10:02
  You just want a bit more Doctor. But they're they're vital to the
• 2:10:05
  plot, so. That line of what is it?
• 2:10:07
  The power boosted open-ended trans not being he just goes.
• 2:10:12
  Oh. Beautiful.
• 2:10:17
  You know, taking any of it seriously.
• 2:10:19
  At all? No.
• 2:10:20
  We just also that little bit of continuity where they have
• 2:10:23
  brought back Paul Jericho when they didn't need to, you know
• 2:10:27
  and just gives you that little bit extra that's that's good.
• 2:10:31
  Weird enough, my next thing is utterly facetious and
• 2:10:35
  unintentional and tied into Doctor Who mythology in such a
• 2:10:40
  powerful way it's definitely worth mentioning.
• 2:10:44
  And that is the pathetic water fountain that features in the
• 2:10:48
  corridor. Scene.
• 2:10:50
  Between the Doctor and Chancellor flag Via Because I
• 2:10:53
  feel as a symbol, as a symbol of tedium as to why the Doctor left
• 2:10:58
  Gallifrey. That water fountain just does
• 2:11:01
  it. With it.
• 2:11:03
  Sort of tickling twist. I took little dribble coming out
• 2:11:07
  through the foliage, so that's. We can't have water in the
• 2:11:12
  studio. It's all electric, you know?
• 2:11:13
  Got to be careful here. Just a tiny little spur.
• 2:11:16
  It's. So if we thought the cafe in Ark
• 2:11:19
  of Infinity was bad, I mean that corridor, It's just the water.
• 2:11:26
  Back to you, Fraser. Oh, Speaking of water, my fourth
• 2:11:30
  thing is going to be the 4th Doctor.
• 2:11:33
  Oh really? You suppose.
• 2:11:36
  And keeping these on your toes. You know, I really thought you
• 2:11:39
  might. Because I remember, you know,
• 2:11:42
  this just being such a little treat because obviously Tom
• 2:11:47
  didn't want to be in, so he. But they managed to find a way
• 2:11:51
  for him to be in. And that was, yeah, the shorter
• 2:11:53
  footage, you know, So you know, you're watching you think, oh,
• 2:11:56
  well, actually, yeah, he isn't it.
• 2:11:57
  But no, he's not. Not until you kind of realize,
• 2:12:00
  you know, later on. Exactly.
• 2:12:03
  You know what it is and what's happening.
• 2:12:04
  So that was a very clever way of including the 4th Doctor into
• 2:12:09
  the story. I thought, I love that that
• 2:12:11
  little snippet and it also gives us a chance to say, well, you
• 2:12:15
  know we've we've talked about Peter Moffat as as a very good
• 2:12:20
  director in this and GNT, but the third director obviously of
• 2:12:25
  the Five Doctors is Pennant Roberts and it's.
• 2:12:31
  Indistinguishable from Peter Moffett.
• 2:12:33
  Because he's also a very, you know, much maligned and unfairly
• 2:12:37
  bashed director and probably against.
• 2:12:40
  You. Well, you know, it's probably
• 2:12:42
  against someone who does better on film than studio.
• 2:12:45
  Yes, and so JNT gives him two studio based stories to direct,
• 2:12:50
  but he comes back to Doctor Who off the back of this because to
• 2:12:55
  say thank you for him to him for letting them use the footage
• 2:12:59
  from Sharda James. He gives him a story.
• 2:13:02
  Excellent. Because.
• 2:13:04
  The. Fall.
• 2:13:06
  Because there's nothing wrong with Pennant Roberts and Hope
• 2:13:09
  yours everyone thinks there is. Only there's a conversation.
• 2:13:14
  I haven't done Face of Evil yet, Fraser, you know.
• 2:13:17
  But what would they have? What would they have done if
• 2:13:20
  they hadn't had this Shard of footage?
• 2:13:22
  How much wax works would have been in there.
• 2:13:24
  Yeah, How could you have got? And so it's just a beautiful bit
• 2:13:28
  of serendipity that they've got this, no one's ever seen it.
• 2:13:31
  And so Tom can be included and it is fine.
• 2:13:35
  It would. It would either have to be a
• 2:13:37
  different clip from a show that we've already seen, or it would
• 2:13:41
  just have to be nothing. He's just completely written
• 2:13:44
  out. Just, you know, in in terms of
• 2:13:49
  text, there's no, there's just lines of dialogue explaining why
• 2:13:51
  he's not there. It'd be very delicate when I say
• 2:13:54
  this, but I, you know, we've all seen the evidence in Day of the
• 2:13:58
  Doctor in that dismal last scene with the line up of all of the
• 2:14:04
  Doctors, some of them looking chubbier than they ever were on
• 2:14:07
  the TV, and that was in the special effects of the 2000 and
• 2:14:11
  10s. I dread to think what we would
• 2:14:13
  have got in 1985. Oh.
• 2:14:16
  Just give a telly, snapped it in the V and we'll get out for you.
• 2:14:19
  It'd be someone in a curly wig walking down the corridor.
• 2:14:23
  Bang, black triangle comes in and and so my next thing is
• 2:14:28
  going to be the black triangle. Because you know, no disrespect
• 2:14:34
  to all the other wonderful effects for the Time scoop, but
• 2:14:37
  that as I said, that 2D effect in a 3D World was scary as.
• 2:14:43
  Fuck. In 1983, and I still think that
• 2:14:47
  image of it is what is sort of my abiding memory from
• 2:14:53
  childhood. If I think of this story, it's
• 2:14:55
  it just suddenly appearing in the sky, the Doctor looking up
• 2:14:59
  and noticing it and being scared because he knows what this is
• 2:15:04
  and knows why this is coming. And I think it's such a shame no
• 2:15:07
  one's ever taken that idea and done it with a new effect.
• 2:15:13
  Every other effect is bigger and better than than you've done
• 2:15:18
  before, but the ice cream scoop just looks dreadful.
• 2:15:21
  You you probably won't remember you.
• 2:15:24
  Maybe you will. There was abbc of Doctor Book
• 2:15:26
  called The Tomorrow Windows. Right there was Johnny.
• 2:15:28
  Norris and he had these wonderful creations called the
• 2:15:32
  Sex X, which were. The what?
• 2:15:35
  The sex XCEC EE S and they were like ghoulish undertakers
• 2:15:43
  pixelated and 2D. He describes them as 2D.
• 2:15:48
  And just the the the that was enough to make them really they
• 2:15:52
  sort of fuzz in and out of like transmission into and it's the
• 2:15:55
  same sort of thing. Yeah.
• 2:15:57
  And that's the only other time I thought some of these actually.
• 2:16:01
  And. The boneless as well in.
• 2:16:03
  Yes. Yeah, brilliant again.
• 2:16:06
  Was it the Doctor Who Magazine script which had something
• 2:16:08
  similar where the little triangles are popping up and
• 2:16:10
  people are popping up with them and.
• 2:16:12
  Yes, yeah, I think so. But yeah, it's it's such a great
• 2:16:16
  and simple image and it's done on it's BBC Micrographics.
• 2:16:21
  It's quite far works. The best defence I've ever heard
• 2:16:25
  for that effect. That's actually made me rethink
• 2:16:27
  what I think. There we go.
• 2:16:30
  My work is done. No.
• 2:16:33
  No, my work is never done. You mean you're deliberately
• 2:16:37
  going on that rack of the old podcast?
• 2:16:41
  Why not? If you're insane.
• 2:16:43
  Opinions. That's how it all started.
• 2:16:47
  My next one then is I want to take a moment just to talk about
• 2:16:50
  the peripheral little gems that are thrown in aside from all the
• 2:16:56
  main characters that are in this.
• 2:16:58
  So you've got Carstairs in there from the War Games.
• 2:17:00
  I know it's not Carsters, but it's the actor.
• 2:17:03
  You've got mentions of Benton and Nat Ave. in those scenes.
• 2:17:08
  Canines gets one scene, the Dalek gets one scene.
• 2:17:12
  Liz Shore and Mike Yates get one scene.
• 2:17:14
  Jamie and Zoe get one scene, so and like we said, at points
• 2:17:18
  where there might have been lows in this story, there's always
• 2:17:21
  another little. Oh my God, Look, he's there.
• 2:17:25
  To to boost us up. And whilst it maybe it's a
• 2:17:29
  little sad that those they they didn't get the focus that the
• 2:17:32
  other characters got, it's a richer celebration of Doctor Who
• 2:17:37
  for them being in there. Fraser, what?
• 2:17:41
  What's your fifth reason? How many fifth reasons, really
• 2:17:44
  difficult. But I think I will pick the 5th
• 2:17:47
  Doctor. That's my fifth reason.
• 2:17:50
  You know as we've discussed I think you know Peter Davison is
• 2:17:55
  he's he's he's so different from the other four.
• 2:17:58
  You know he is not the sort of grandstand and stand up and look
• 2:18:01
  at me or anything. He is such a sort of performer.
• 2:18:05
  He's got such a nuance about about what he does, but at the
• 2:18:08
  same time he's got an an energy about, you know, all through
• 2:18:13
  season 20, you know, if you go back and watch these stories,
• 2:18:18
  you know, if you binge the box set like I've just done
• 2:18:20
  recently, well, the one thing that stands out is Peter
• 2:18:23
  Davison. You know, even when he's not got
• 2:18:26
  a story as that involves the doctor as much where he's not
• 2:18:30
  the central category. He's just split exposition.
• 2:18:32
  He's given everything. He's given everything he's got.
• 2:18:35
  He's trying to bring something, you know, to the stories, even
• 2:18:40
  if it is just a look on his face or a cock of his head or a
• 2:18:43
  chauvinist, no hands into his pockets.
• 2:18:45
  He's doing something which is just fantastic.
• 2:18:51
  I think this is a really good, you know, showing for what he
• 2:18:55
  can do when he's given the right material, when he is given those
• 2:18:59
  sarcastic, funny lines to to deliver, when he has written
• 2:19:05
  right. He can absolutely be the doctor.
• 2:19:07
  He can, you know, knock everything out of the park.
• 2:19:09
  He can be assertive, he can be command, and he can be whatever
• 2:19:14
  you want the Doctor to be. So big Thumbs up to Big Old
• 2:19:18
  Devil the 5th. Doctor I have just noticed
• 2:19:22
  something whilst you've been saying that because I think what
• 2:19:26
  you said there is when he's given the opportunities, when
• 2:19:28
  he's written well. And I think the three best
• 2:19:32
  writers for Davidson are previous script editor Chris
• 2:19:36
  French, bid Mead, previous script editor Terrance Dix and
• 2:19:41
  previous script editor Robert Holmes.
• 2:19:44
  And they just fundamentally understand the character of the
• 2:19:47
  Doctor and give him very sayable words.
• 2:19:51
  And the the trouble is, is where the current script or the
• 2:19:55
  writers that he's choosing maybe sometimes aren't giving him the
• 2:19:59
  things to say that allow him to express himself.
• 2:20:03
  Exactly. When he's written as a
• 2:20:05
  character, he flies. When he's given expositional
• 2:20:09
  lines, he is not, I think also on it.
• 2:20:14
  I think gives us a peek into what Davidson could have been
• 2:20:19
  throughout and should have been. Yeah, I would have been
• 2:20:23
  phenomenal. I think he's good.
• 2:20:25
  He's always good. He's a good actor.
• 2:20:28
  Yeah. OK, so my thing I'm going to say
• 2:20:32
  is honouring William Hartnell and giving him the pre credits
• 2:20:38
  teaser and they didn't have to do that.
• 2:20:41
  And they've chosen the most brilliant clip of him being
• 2:20:45
  beautiful and wonderful and at his best and lovely, beautifully
• 2:20:52
  chosen and fits fits the tone of the story one really, really
• 2:20:58
  well. And it's lovely that they
• 2:21:00
  included him just a little bit and that's great.
• 2:21:04
  It's It is the perfect clip. It's one day I will come back
• 2:21:07
  and he has. Yes, and he does.
• 2:21:10
  And it's one of those times when Arnold.
• 2:21:12
  Just was word perfect. You know, I want to have a
• 2:21:19
  moment for Elizabeth Slayden, who I think is not written
• 2:21:24
  stunningly in this, no, and is certainly not dressed stunningly
• 2:21:30
  in this. And.
• 2:21:31
  Is asked to roll down a very gentle heel.
• 2:21:34
  Stunningly. And sort of whinge and complain,
• 2:21:38
  ask questions and all of this, and she's still just deliriously
• 2:21:44
  wonderful. Like she just navigates all this
• 2:21:48
  material with such charm and such elegance.
• 2:21:52
  I just love Elizabeth Slayton anything that she does.
• 2:21:56
  And frankly, had it been Joe instead of Sarah, I would have
• 2:22:00
  been far more appalled. Yeah, just even when she's not
• 2:22:04
  at her best in terms of characterisation.
• 2:22:06
  Elizabeth Sladen. Shines, Yeah.
• 2:22:09
  And of course it's going to be Liz Sladen.
• 2:22:11
  She's going to be here, isn't she?
• 2:22:13
  It makes absolute sense to see. Even when she's doing that
• 2:22:16
  behind the doctor's sort of silent acting.
• 2:22:19
  She's given, yeah, she's doing that.
• 2:22:21
  She's doing more than anyone else would would in that
• 2:22:25
  situation and as I said, her eye roll when she's having none of
• 2:22:29
  Pertwee's nonsense in Bessie is brilliant.
• 2:22:33
  I just love her, you know, you became all and she just does her
• 2:22:36
  hands in front of her teeth and. Pert.
• 2:22:39
  We stole that line off her. That was her.
• 2:22:42
  That was scripted for her. And pert we said no, no, no, I I
• 2:22:44
  will have that. And she lets him, do you know?
• 2:22:47
  Because she knows how to handle him.
• 2:22:49
  There's one line I'll say all the time at work, out of work.
• 2:22:54
  I never thought I'd be so pleased to see anyone.
• 2:22:59
  I'll say it like that and people are like, calm down, you're
• 2:23:03
  right. What's the drama?
• 2:23:06
  Is that it? We're not going around anymore,
• 2:23:08
  are we? Yes.
• 2:23:09
  OK, well, well, I can wrap it up if you want because I've got one
• 2:23:13
  last. All right.
• 2:23:14
  Go on then, 11. Last you know, favorite thing
• 2:23:19
  that I want to mention, which is basically everything we haven't
• 2:23:22
  mentioned yet. Yes.
• 2:23:24
  Because we could sit here for another two hours and go round
• 2:23:28
  and round and round and see, what about this night?
• 2:23:31
  Yeah, you know. Oh, so even that sitting at home
• 2:23:34
  going well, you haven't said my favorite thing.
• 2:23:36
  Well, I'm seeing it now. Whatever your favorite thing is,
• 2:23:38
  just insert it here. You just say the rust on Warrior
• 2:23:41
  robot because none of us mentioned.
• 2:23:43
  That no. Yeah, and.
• 2:23:45
  It is a him. He's got a bulch.
• 2:23:47
  Yeah, the rust on warrior robot. The mind probe line.
• 2:23:51
  Yeah, spaghetti. Yeah.
• 2:23:54
  The galactic glitter glitter. Everything else.
• 2:23:57
  Every other little bit, because there's so many.
• 2:24:00
  Just absolute. Some are chunks, some are just
• 2:24:03
  tiny, tiny atomic moments, but they're all moments of charm.
• 2:24:07
  And they are sprinkled throughout this like gold dust,
• 2:24:12
  and it just makes the whole thing sparkle.
• 2:24:14
  So the whole thing sparkles and whatever your favorite thing is,
• 2:24:17
  I am shouting that out there. Oh, it's not without reason.
• 2:24:20
  This is my second favorite Doctor Who story of all time,
• 2:24:25
  and it is. I don't often reveal what my
• 2:24:27
  favourites are, but this? For years I've kind of dismissed
• 2:24:31
  this because it was so out on its own that there's nothing
• 2:24:35
  quite like it. But actually, do you know what?
• 2:24:38
  I've watched this story more than any other Doctor Who story,
• 2:24:43
  and I can put this on on a day where I'm having a really bad
• 2:24:46
  day and I will instantly feel better the minute it starts.
• 2:24:51
  And it's old again when I put this on.
• 2:24:53
  Exactly. You know, and I think the
• 2:24:57
  Christmas where I was properly depressed and dealing with this,
• 2:25:03
  and it was New Year's Eve, and I'd been to see the rubbish
• 2:25:07
  first Hobbit film and that had filled 3 1/2 hours of my life
• 2:25:10
  that I won't get back. And I was feeling really, really
• 2:25:15
  miserable and really unhappy. But I came home and I thought,
• 2:25:20
  you know what? I'm going to watch The Five
• 2:25:23
  Doctors. It's New Year's Eve.
• 2:25:24
  I'm in on my own. What do I do?
• 2:25:27
  I watched The Five Doctors and I tweeted it along and people from
• 2:25:32
  their parties or whatever half drunk were joining in because
• 2:25:35
  they knew exactly where I was in the story and they would quote
• 2:25:39
  bits at me and and it made the biggest difference.
• 2:25:42
  By the end of it I was completely and utterly pissed
• 2:25:46
  and just smiling my head off and humming along with the music and
• 2:25:51
  all of that. And that's why The Five Doctors
• 2:25:54
  is the most brilliant story. And if it wasn't the City of
• 2:25:57
  Death, being nostalgic and wonderful and clever and witty,
• 2:26:03
  this would be this would be the one for me and that.
• 2:26:07
  Seems like a good segue to hand out assignments.
• 2:26:14
  Oh my. Goodness.
• 2:26:16
  Oh, sorry, I can't. There's a there's a triangle
• 2:26:19
  coming. I'm.
• 2:26:19
  I'm not going to hear what's going on.
• 2:26:21
  Oh, no. Oh, damn.
• 2:26:24
  I'm going to have to hear what you've got us doing.
• 2:26:26
  Next. Well, my, my.
• 2:26:28
  Clients much feeling oh. Shut up, the pair of ya, right?
• 2:26:35
  This will come as a surprise. You sigh because we have in no
• 2:26:38
  way prepared to do this story. But you just mentioned that this
• 2:26:42
  is your second favorite story, so I think it's about time for
• 2:26:47
  another go around or City of Death.
• 2:26:50
  Oh my God. You and I will cover solo the
• 2:26:53
  next time we record together. Bloody.
• 2:26:56
  Hell. Yes.
• 2:26:57
  I know your favorite story is the Happiness Patrol, and you
• 2:27:02
  and I will cover that the next time we talk together solo and.
• 2:27:07
  Joe, I'd like to say, what's your favorite story?
• 2:27:12
  What a question. Oh yeah, I'm not Maybe the.
• 2:27:16
  War games. Right.
• 2:27:18
  So then the three of us will cover the war games together.
• 2:27:22
  Unfortunately, that has already been offered to two other.
• 2:27:25
  People. So damn it, Well, no.
• 2:27:27
  But you have you have another wait.
• 2:27:30
  I have AI have a story that is a is a mental favorite of mine
• 2:27:36
  that I have mentioned in many other podcasts, including yours
• 2:27:40
  recently, and I chose it as one piece of Doctor Who merchandise.
• 2:27:45
  And then Fraser stole it. Never mind him, it's the trial
• 2:27:53
  of a time. Lord parts 1 to 14.
• 2:27:57
  And we've already agreed that we are going to embark on a 14 part
• 2:28:02
  mammoth epic. The Commentaries.
• 2:28:05
  End all commentaries. Are you ready for us?
• 2:28:10
  What Parama conspirators? Dalek.
• 2:28:13
  So they're still in a nursery compared to us. 10 million years
• 2:28:18
  of absolute podcasting. That's what it takes to be.
• 2:28:22
  Really corrupt. Well, it ticks off another
• 2:28:25
  season, doesn't it? I'm so close to covering the
• 2:28:29
  whole of season 20 now. I think after a story we all
• 2:28:34
  love that celebrates Doctor Who so well, that's a great
• 2:28:38
  springboard to talk about Fraser's favorite story, your
• 2:28:42
  favorite story, and my sentimental favorite story.
• 2:28:45
  Are you up for the challenge? Definitely.
• 2:28:47
  I've. I've never I've.
• 2:28:50
  I did want to do a podcast on City of Day.
• 2:28:52
  You did, Yeah. Never to be heard, never to.
• 2:28:57
  Be heard. Talk to.
• 2:28:59
  Me. Well, we'll talk.
• 2:29:01
  About that in there. We will.
• 2:29:05
  I'm grateful for good luck with that, yes.
• 2:29:11
  Well gentlemen, what a delight it has been to bring the Dream
• 2:29:15
  Team back together again. Well, it was a great chance to
• 2:29:18
  re meet old friends. Listen to that.
• 2:29:21
  You can hear the collective orgasms of everybody as this
• 2:29:24
  hits their podcast. Catch us.
• 2:29:26
  My God, it's Fraser, Simon and Joe again.
• 2:29:31
  How long was that one? Well I will just say can someone
• 2:29:37
  please end this with A5 doctors quote of some kind?
• 2:29:42
  Both loops in one. Hand got it.
• 2:29:49
  There.